1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,280 The Bible warns that the borrower is a slave to the 2 00:00:03,280 --> 00:00:06,240 lender, and in a world of 50 year mortgages and buying 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:10,840 burritos with buy now, pay later schemes, we've made debt our new 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,080 religion. Adam O'Brien, CEO of the Bitcoin 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:17,440 Well, joins me to explain why millennials are actually highly 6 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,200 productive slaves with a better UI and how we traded our 7 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:25,640 sovereignty for a credit score. We dive into the brain rot of 8 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:29,000 outsourcing responsibility and why Bitcoin is the only 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:31,520 technology that demands personal agency. 10 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,200 Adam breaks down why the wisest man on earth was a generational 11 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:38,800 wealth maxi, why critical thinking is the rarest commodity 12 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:43,200 in 2026, and why the path of field money always leads to the 13 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:47,440 same destination, zero. I hope you enjoyed this episode. 14 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:52,960 Let's dive in. Adam O'Brien, welcome to Bitcoin 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,360 for Millennials. Man, finally a show talking 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,520 about the supreme generation to ever March this planet the 17 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,880 millennials, the millennials got to be we always talk about the 18 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,240 boomers, the Gen. Z's like the prodigy and the 19 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,560 millennials are here to pick up the slack on both sides and so 20 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:13,520 represent my man represent maybe a big. 21 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,800 Question I I really wonder what you think about this because I 22 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,000 think the credit card culture in the US and Canada is way bigger 23 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,760 than in Europe. Do you think average millennials 24 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:28,600 actually a sovereign citizen or just a highly productive slave 25 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:32,280 with a better UI? Dude, highly productive slave, 26 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,960 better UI. I think that millennials 27 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:42,480 especially, we praise debt. We we run down debt like that's, 28 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,360 that's a business strategy is debt. 29 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:49,360 It's like buy property, lever it up, buy more property, buy 30 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,840 property, get some debt, fix your kitchen, get some more 31 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,720 debt, buy a second property, get some more debt. 32 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,160 That's like that's the business plan for like freedom in the 33 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,440 real estate market. It's I think that we I mean, we 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,760 saw the collapse of that in O 8. We're not that's that's not 35 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,000 going away. MST Rs entire value prop was 36 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:14,480 unlocking the captured debt that exists and we saw bitcoiners and 37 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:20,080 millennials ape in to the bitcoiners, millennials Gen. 38 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:24,520 Z, whoever owns MSTR basically owns an equity that owns a pile 39 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:29,280 of debt and and and the you know the assets that they buy with 40 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,360 that debt. It's like we have a financial 41 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:36,960 system so rooted in debt, which naturally just tips the scales. 42 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:38,520 It just tips the scales in one way. 43 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,600 It's crazy to me that we have so much debt and we have quarterly 44 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:48,480 revaluations on the interest like every single quarter your 45 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,360 monthly budget can just get turned upside down. 46 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,680 It is, it's so volatile and we're seeing, you know, what we 47 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,800 are kind of believed to be the end of the, at least the 48 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:03,520 transition of the Fiat world and, and, and the Fiat economy. 49 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:09,120 And that's only going to get exasperated and exaggerated as 50 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,840 this kind of, you know, we tip closer towards the, yeah, 51 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,280 financial revolution, the the great reset, whatever it is you 52 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,080 want to call it. Something's brewing. 53 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,040 We can feel it. And I think it's, I think it's 54 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,440 catastrophic the way that we look at use normalized debt, 55 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:29,840 which is a form of, of, of slavery. 56 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:30,880 I mean, the Bible is clear on it. 57 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,920 You made a comment earlier like, so this concept of debt comes up 58 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,080 in the in the book of Proverbs, but earlier you mentioned this 59 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:43,280 concept of Fair and equal weights that came from the 60 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,480 second book in the Bible called Deuteronomy. 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,440 And it's written by a guy called Moses. 62 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:51,800 And Moses wrote that directly from God like it is it didn't, 63 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,080 it didn't magically appear. It's like the guy that created 64 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,720 the world in the universe spoke to Moses saying, hey, Moses, you 65 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,280 got to go and tell everyone how to live fair and equal money is 66 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:05,960 like the money section. That's like the original law. 67 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:10,000 And then what's even crazier, even like you drove down the the 68 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:12,200 debt. So at it written in the book of 69 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,920 Proverbs, that's written by a guy called Solomon and Solomon 70 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:21,800 wrote lots of the proverbs and God himself called Solomon the 71 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:25,440 wisest man on earth. So it's like we don't, these 72 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:28,120 aren't just like nice fables that we kind of like look at and 73 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:29,560 read and like, oh, that makes a lot of sense. 74 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:34,000 Like, no, no, the Bible written by the divine spirit of God 75 00:04:34,280 --> 00:04:36,960 called Solomon the wisest person on earth. 76 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:42,800 And he's out here saying, Hey, yo, the the the lender is a or 77 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,080 the borrower is a slave to the lender. 78 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,200 And another little tidbit bitcoiners. 79 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:51,360 He also said, this is my favorite line from Solomon, a 80 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,560 wise man. This is this is the wisest man 81 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,920 saying this a wise man leaves an inheritance for his children's 82 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,400 children. Like how how based is that? 83 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,080 How much of A Bitcoiner, you know, sentiment to that like 84 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,080 generational wealth mindset coming out of the wisest man on 85 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,880 earth on on earth, kind of like highlighting the risk. 86 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:12,880 He doesn't say don't take debt, which is interesting. 87 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,880 He just highlights the slavery component to debt, which I think 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,000 it's a healthy mindset to walk into debt with. 89 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,080 You've said that having holding Bitcoin as a bearer asset 90 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,920 demands a little faith. So I wanted to ask you what is 91 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,800 the difference between believing in Bitcoin based on your 92 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,360 research, right and seeing a certain future? 93 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,640 But then what is the step to faith? 94 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:40,720 What, what is the difference between believing and having 95 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:44,240 faith in, you know, taking it off an exchange, being your own 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,880 bank, having it in self custody, etcetera? 97 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:49,880 Yeah, it's question. It's kind of well, yeah, it's I 98 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,000 mean, it's kind of this concept of personal agency Bitcoin, like 99 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:59,800 the revolution of Bitcoin is not this number go up, right. 100 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:04,720 You like, I mean, Haktua coin had number go up for a period of 101 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,120 time, right. We've had gold does number go 102 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,800 up? Oil does number go up? 103 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:13,760 We've we we've got all kinds of number go up assets and even 104 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,520 scarcity isn't the invention of of Bitcoin. 105 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,720 We've got scarce assets, quasi scarce assets. 106 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,400 We don't have known scarce assets. 107 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:24,720 So that is kind of a little bit of a of a benefit. 108 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:26,960 But you think about physical assets. 109 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:28,840 Let's let's let's let's pick on gold and oil. 110 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:34,080 So gold, you can self custody gold up to an extent, but if 111 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,520 you're going to continually be buying gold, eventually you're 112 00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:40,480 going to accumulate such an amount that it's going to be 113 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:45,520 difficult to self custody and you're actually incentivized to 114 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,040 give it to a custodian because they have better security. 115 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,400 You know, you have the option of building out steel fireproof 116 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,440 vault in your house with like the security systems and the 117 00:06:56,440 --> 00:07:00,720 bodyguards and the the lasers and you know, all the, all the 118 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,120 crazy things that you do to secure shiny yellow rocks. 119 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,600 Or you can pay someone a couple 100 bucks or a couple 1000 bucks 120 00:07:08,840 --> 00:07:11,520 who's already done all that and who pools all those resources 121 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,800 together to kind of create that as a value prop. 122 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,360 So it's actually gold gets harder to self custody the more 123 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:22,080 that you have and you're actually kind of quasi forced to 124 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:23,720 centralized that way. Oil is the same thing. 125 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,280 We actually, I'm not sure you remember during the COVID crash, 126 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:31,320 we saw oil drop to negative $20 a barrel. 127 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:36,560 That meant that holding oil was such a nuisance. 128 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:41,640 The physical custody of oil was so catastrophic that oil 129 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,440 companies whose literal job was to pull oil out of the ground 130 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:49,360 and store it, they were like, Nah, I'm not going to do this 131 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,680 storage part. We got way too much oil. 132 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,560 I can't be bothered with this physical custody here customer, 133 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,600 here's this asset that we're going to pay you to take. 134 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,320 Like, imagine that world where we see custody of an asset 135 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:07,160 become such a nuisance that we are paying people to, to take it 136 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,080 off of our hands, right? A resource, a natural resource 137 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,280 that's allegedly scarce. And we are just paying people 138 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:17,800 like who's going to pay you to take custody of their Bitcoin? 139 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,520 But yet we see that happen. And so what's, what's the 140 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:24,200 innovation here, right? What's the, what's the, the real 141 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,800 innovation is that Bitcoin, no matter how much you hold, costs 142 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,680 the same to self custody. So you kind of don't have the 143 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:35,320 gold and the oil problem, but you also have institutional 144 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,080 grade security built in to the protocol. 145 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:41,039 So you don't even have the like economies of scale problem. 146 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,920 Like, oh, it doesn't make sense to secure my $18.00 of Bitcoin. 147 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,640 It's like, well, it costs the same to secure $18.00 of Bitcoin 148 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,320 as it does $18 billion in Bitcoin. 149 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,000 It's the same like we've never had said that before, it costs 150 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:59,800 way more to secure $18 billion in gold than of than of Bitcoin 151 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:04,040 or or or of of $18.00 in gold. Same thing with oil, same thing 152 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,840 with diamonds, same thing with like Pokémon cars. 153 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,760 Like the more you get of something physical, the harder 154 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:10,840 and more expensive it is to secure. 155 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,920 But with Bitcoin, you have infinite security inside of a 156 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,720 finite asset. And that is just like that's 157 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,360 innovation immensely. And So what does that mean? 158 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:22,920 Why isn't everyone self custodying it? 159 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,200 How on earth is custody even a business? 160 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,000 And it's strictly because of that Fiat mindset. 161 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,840 And this this kind of like personal agency risk 162 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,000 calculation. People for whatever reason are 163 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,480 petrified that they are not responsible enough to own and 164 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,840 control their wealth. And I just think that's such a 165 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,200 backwards mindset. It's straight programming 166 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,440 brainwashing from the system. It is 100% of fallacy. 167 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,040 If you are responsible enough to drive a 5000 LB piece of metal 168 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,920 at at earth shattering speeds down the highway, you can 169 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:02,880 protect some words on a plate of steel. 170 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:06,360 If you are responsible enough to usher in children or like think 171 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:09,760 about like there's doctors, there's like we have a lot of 172 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:14,080 personal agency and personal responsibility that we entrust 173 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,720 in people. And yet somehow we think 174 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,280 collectively we're too dumb to protect wealth. 175 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:25,240 Like it's just, it's we need to get over this, this brain 176 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:29,880 wrought mindset and understand that custody is a feature, not 177 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:33,320 some nuisance bug that you have to deal with like it has been 178 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:38,040 for other physical assets. When it comes to holding Bitcoin 179 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,040 securely, Peace of Mind starts with architecture. 180 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,560 On Ramps multi institution custody model distributes 181 00:10:44,560 --> 00:10:48,120 control access across three independent regulated key 182 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,720 holders in a two of three multi state quorum. 183 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,480 No single point of failure, no pooled or omnibus exposure, just 184 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,600 segregated client titled vaults. 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That's BR AM to receive $150.00 195 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,000 in Bitcoin after your first deposit on ramp strength in many 196 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,960 simplicity in one. What do you think about the fact 197 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,680 that you know, the, the, the American dream, but I think also 198 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:44,040 the, the Western dream to a degree, right? 199 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:48,560 It it it, it used to be all about personal agency and having 200 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,280 ownership right? And now it's really about 201 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,280 outsourcing responsibility. It's about credit scores like 202 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,760 we, like we mentioned, what do you, what do you think happens? 203 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,360 Like what, when, when did people decide to train to trade their 204 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:04,240 sovereignty for, for this convenience? 205 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,280 And, and what do we need to, to get back? 206 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,120 Because my, my idea around this is when, when more people 207 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:17,680 actually have that agency, when they feel more in control of 208 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:20,160 their life and they want to be more in control of their life, 209 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,240 that's when we actually make big steps, right? 210 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,480 Because then you have to go out there and do things and create 211 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,480 value, etcetera. And now it is too easy to either 212 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:36,000 rent seek or, you know, you have these examples of people who 213 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:41,280 work three days a week because it, it does, there's no reward 214 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,880 in working four days a week, for example, with government 215 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,640 benefits and, you know, stuff, stuff like that. 216 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:49,920 So if they would work one week a day more, they would have to 217 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:54,640 work a whole day to get like, I don't know, $20.00 or €20 extra 218 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:56,840 per per week or something, right. 219 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,440 So they're obviously not doing that. 220 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:00,560 So yeah. What, what are your thoughts 221 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:02,760 around that? Because I, I again, I think 222 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:08,000 there's such there, there's this weird dichotomy between it's 223 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,840 either you're responsible or you're outsourcing everything to 224 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:13,400 random other people that don't know who you are. 225 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,760 They are not better than you. They don't know more about the 226 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,960 thing that you're outsourcing, right? 227 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:21,160 You can learn about that yourself. 228 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,800 So for me the line feels very thin, but in reality it's quite 229 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:29,680 wide I would say. Yeah, man, I think if I had that 230 00:13:29,680 --> 00:13:32,560 so my gut reaction to like when did this happen? 231 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:35,480 I would you know, my gut reaction like most Bitcoiners 232 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,440 like 1971, obviously this is when it happened. 233 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,800 But as I've been thinking about this for, you know, as you were 234 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,040 talking there, I think it's actually probably the industrial 235 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:49,320 revolution that began this like kind of mass programming for a 236 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,520 future world. You look at the industrial 237 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,640 revolution and pre industrial revolution, we, this concept of 238 00:13:55,640 --> 00:13:58,400 like a global market or this concept of, of economies of 239 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:02,560 scale wasn't really something that we, we, we considered you 240 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:05,680 just did things because it made sense for you and your 241 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,440 community. You worked hard, you enjoyed the 242 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,560 fruits of your labor and you, you know, you lived in a tiny 243 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:13,480 community. And then the industrial 244 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,800 revolution comes along and, you know, boom, we get kind of mass 245 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:21,560 programming. We, we start experiencing like, 246 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:26,120 you know, state education, you know, state incentives. 247 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,880 We start, we start seeing, you know, we start understanding 248 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,200 that economies of scale kind of one person or one group can all 249 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:37,680 of a sudden govern millions of of people. 250 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,960 I mean, you look at like Russia's a great example of 251 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,080 this, Like Putin governs over 9 time zones. 252 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,720 That is like mind blowing. Like you can't, you can't 253 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,120 effectively run a country or any organization, any institution 254 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,480 across 9. I got a hard enough time with 255 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,440 four time zones that Bitcoin, well, I can't imagine. 256 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,680 And hey, listen, maybe Putin's a lot smarter than I am. 257 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,920 OK, fair play. But like 9 is crazy. 258 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:08,360 And I think that this concept of like economies of scale and this 259 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,480 concept of mass leadership and kind of like mass organization, 260 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:16,200 mass efficiency, I think that's kind of where it really started. 261 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,080 And when you, when you want something on mass, you have to 262 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,840 train a society to start thinking on mass. 263 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:28,840 And so you know, you can't think on mass if your bread comes from 264 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,080 your neighbor and your meats comes from your other neighbor 265 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,600 and your entertainment comes from across the street and your 266 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,960 books come from your local author. 267 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,800 Like you just don't, you just don't think on mass. 268 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:44,680 You're, you're, you're thinking inside of your inside of your 269 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,680 community. Now there's, there's benefits to 270 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,160 both sides, right? Like you said, fiat's a great 271 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,160 invention up to a certain point. Well, probably same goes of the 272 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,680 industrial on mass, kind of like mindset, this industrial complex 273 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,560 mindset of, of like, yeah, we have technology. 274 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,120 We have you are actually incentivized to spend, to burn 275 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,960 millions of dollars researching and innovating. 276 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,800 So we can have the iPhone, so we can have the Internet, so we can 277 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,760 have the Bitcoin protocol, so we can have encryption protocols. 278 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,120 Like, yeah, all this innovation comes from this big high level 279 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:27,240 on mass mindset, but it also requires us to keep our 280 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,560 economies or our our individuals, our our citizens 281 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:36,000 and our society well trained in this, you know, don't, don't 282 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:39,200 remove personal agency. There's this this quote that I 283 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:40,560 like that I probably subscribe to. 284 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:46,240 And it's like the tighter you are, but the more like 285 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:49,800 centralization and like, you know, for my family, I'm 286 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,760 straight communist. I'm like, you know, there it's 287 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,920 all for the collective, for my community, my extended family, 288 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,040 probably pretty socialist. For my neighborhood, I'm 289 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,360 probably pretty centrist. And like, the further out that I 290 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:05,359 get, I end up at pure anarchy for like, you know, the whole 291 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,119 world. And I think we've kind of camped 292 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,119 ourselves into these identities of like political type of 293 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:17,640 environments. It's like we, we, you can't, I 294 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:19,880 feel like the world is designed for us to hold different 295 00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,040 opinions based on circumstances and data. 296 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:26,440 And we've camped ourselves into like, no, no, no, I'm a 297 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,840 socialist. I believe that everyone should 298 00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,520 be owned by the head. And, you know, personal agencies 299 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,480 should be 0. And that's a phenomenal mindset 300 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,640 for like you and your kids and maybe your parents and maybe 301 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,840 your sister, but like, that's terrible for a country. 302 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:46,440 And you have to kind of identify which ones are which. 303 00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:51,720 Can you kind of elaborate on your thoughts around Bitcoin 304 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:55,200 being the only kind of like power structure that doesn't 305 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:57,040 really have a human point of failure? 306 00:17:57,040 --> 00:18:00,080 It's just this thing. And when you adopt this thing 307 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,240 and you contribute to it, you can gain benefit from it. 308 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:07,280 And everyone that does that is incentivized to do more of that 309 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,320 and so on and so on and so on. Yeah, that's really the key 310 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,720 thing, is just the aligning incentives portion. 311 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,280 You're actually more incentivized to contribute to 312 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:17,440 the security of the Bitcoin network than you are to try to 313 00:18:17,440 --> 00:18:22,960 hack it, which again, is not really true of of any other 314 00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,440 asset that I can think of. You are much more incentivized 315 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,280 to try to social engineer and hack into a bank or hack into a 316 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,440 stockbroker or hack into a gold shop. 317 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,560 Like how much money can you really earn? 318 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,560 Like there's such this, there's this, there's this misaligned 319 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:38,600 incentive between a bodyguard and the thing that the bodyguard 320 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,000 is guarding, right? Or like the security guard, you 321 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,640 know, you give you give a guy a gun and, and 30 bucks an hour 322 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:47,440 and you ask him to protect 1,000,000 bucks. 323 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,200 It's like I got to work for a lot of hours or I can just point 324 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,240 this gun the other way and go and grab the 1,000,000 bucks and 325 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,040 get a payday. That actually happened in 326 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,120 Edmonton like two or three years ago. 327 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,920 There's a, there's an armed guard and they always send two 328 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,560 of them. And one of the guys, there was 329 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:06,600 just cash on the table. And one of the guys, he just 330 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,560 shot the other armed guard and took the money and ran. 331 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:14,920 And this misaligned incentive doesn't happen in Bitcoin 332 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,760 because we've removed the human condition. 333 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,640 We've, we've removed the morality, the depravity and the, 334 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,960 you know, like naturally evil state of humans and we've 335 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,520 protected it with rules, but not rulers. 336 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,680 And I think that that's the the key. 337 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,280 Like you said, you can't blackmail a Shaw 256 encryption 338 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:36,440 protocol. But you know, apparently the 339 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:38,880 president of the free world can go ahead and head to an island 340 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:40,400 and he can get all the blackmail he needs. 341 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,840 And so it's, it's, it's quite an interesting thing when we look 342 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:49,240 to people to be our saviors, when we look to people to be our 343 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,240 protectors, when we look to people to kind of protect our 344 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,160 future and guard our future, we run into a bunch of misaligned 345 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,600 incentives and, and ultimately no one's perfect. 346 00:19:59,960 --> 00:20:02,640 And so you end up in this weird spot where you have to kind of 347 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:09,560 either defend this person or you need to find a new person if 348 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:13,200 you're but when you can root your time in energy. 349 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:18,080 Energy is kind of like agnostic. It doesn't really matter, you 350 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,840 know, like energy is just energy and they're trying to demonize 351 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:22,600 energy, right? Boils the oceans. 352 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,480 It's it's creating hurricanes and like the worst weather 353 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,920 pattern since 1964. It's like, sure, you know all 354 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:34,480 the FUD you want against energy, but at the end of the day, 355 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,680 humans like we our time is you literally like I'm not sure if 356 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,240 you've ever done like a health thing where you stand on the 357 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,720 thing and grab the handles. It's like you just by existing 358 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:51,280 burn 1700 calories, a unit of energy just by breathing. 359 00:20:51,360 --> 00:20:53,440 That's what your body takes just to survive. 360 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:59,000 And you need to fill your body up with 1700 calories worth of 361 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,560 energy, which means somebody has to produce. 362 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,760 That's 1700 calories worth of energy. 363 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,480 And it's like we all boil down at the end of the day to 364 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,000 production and consumption of energy. 365 00:21:13,360 --> 00:21:19,920 And the fewer objects we have in the way to incentivize 366 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:24,440 negativity or to incentivize thievery and like, yeah, 367 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,680 manipulation and all these bad things, the better. 368 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:31,200 I don't think anyone can say anything other than that. 369 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,280 And so with that frame of mind, now you have to look and you 370 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:38,200 have to be like, all right, if we want rules and no rulers, 371 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,360 because all human rulers are bad and we need to perfectly 372 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,080 preserve energy, what can do that? 373 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,080 And I'm like, yo, show me a better asset than Bitcoin to be 374 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:51,720 able to achieve those two things. 375 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,560 Because without those two things, I think you're off on 376 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:55,240 the wrong foot already. And those two are the most 377 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,920 important things. Why do you think a lot of people 378 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:05,080 still have so much resistance to something like Bitcoin, arguably 379 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:10,120 a tool that can protect them from the most predatory thing in 380 00:22:10,120 --> 00:22:12,880 their lives, which is the manipulated money, which is the 381 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,360 most important technology they use every day in in their lives. 382 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,960 But the same people also talk about freedom, right? 383 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,600 Like I want to be free. I want to be, you know, do 384 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:26,960 whatever I want to do in my life. 385 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,040 I want to be, you know, self-sufficient, blah, blah, 386 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:31,880 blah, blah. But they don't adopt Bitcoin. 387 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,840 What is that? Yeah. 388 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:40,080 I think it's it's a deep condition around kind of what I 389 00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:43,520 made was talking about earlier around this like this, this 390 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,880 people honoring or people heroizing other people and we've 391 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:53,720 kind of camped ourselves into our thoughts and beliefs and 392 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,480 ideologies. It's like I am X, whether it be 393 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,360 a political ideology or a bitcoiner or even, you know, you 394 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:04,160 attach what you do. I'm a welder. 395 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,520 And so, you know, all of my welding friends think this. 396 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,800 I am not thinking anything other than that. 397 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,480 I'm a high school student. Well, all high school students 398 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:17,320 have cell phones. And so I have to have a cell 399 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,600 phone. And from a very young age, we've 400 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:24,800 kind of got this concept of my peers all think this. 401 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:28,640 Therefore I think this. And it's not because I've 402 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:30,240 rationally thought it out. It's not because I think it'll 403 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,560 make the world a better place. It's simply because somebody 404 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:36,680 else that I trust, rightly or wrongly, thinks this way. 405 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:41,440 And then when somebody points so then then what happens is our 406 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,960 ideas become very spiritual. They become very much a part of 407 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,440 our soul and our our way of thinking, our hearts, they 408 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:51,200 become a part of us. And so when someone comes along 409 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:56,280 and tells us that our ideas or our opinions are wrong or bad 410 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,680 for a certain reason, we get this like really adverse 411 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,960 reaction. It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I 412 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,240 don't know, you don't understand. 413 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,560 My hero thinks this. This person that I trust, 414 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,480 Mackenzie thinks Mackenzie thinks this. 415 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,520 No, no, no, no, no. The governor of my state thinks 416 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:14,880 this. You have no idea. 417 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,760 My favorite is celebrity thinks this. 418 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760 The hockey player that I like thinks this. 419 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:24,120 My mom thinks this. My best friend thinks this. 420 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,440 And it's like, you don't care about the opinion. 421 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:30,840 You just care about who shares the opinion with you because you 422 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,400 think it makes you more like them. 423 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:37,400 And it comes from this place of really, truly, dramatically 424 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:44,360 overemphasizing humans over like God is, is like the root of it. 425 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,520 But even like if you don't want to get that spiritual, it's, 426 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:53,040 it's this goal to just fit in. And I think that's where it 427 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:57,600 ultimately stems from. And if we are comfortable, like 428 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:02,560 the amount of Sailor Sims that I see that credit to sailor. 429 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,480 I think the treasury space is interesting and I think it plays 430 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,760 a role in, in our environment. And I'm running a treasury 431 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,760 company. So like, you know, we're a 432 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,280 productive treasury company. We're different than MSTR, but 433 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:17,440 like, let's call a spade a spade, right? 434 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,680 We print shares, buy Bitcoin like that's, that's the base of 435 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,600 it. And but the amount of people 436 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,600 that won't, that are scared to call him out on the things that 437 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,160 he could do better means that they they idolize him. 438 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,080 And it's not just sailor, it's, it's literally anyone. 439 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,640 And we should feel very comfortable saying, yo, I like 440 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,120 that guy. I disagree with AB and C, but on 441 00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:46,920 the surface, I think this is what I like and the ability to 442 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,720 say, oh, I liked that guy. I'm not talking about anyone in 443 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,520 particular, but just in general. I used to like that guy, but 444 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,520 this sent me over the edge or I got some new data and it changed 445 00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,760 my opinion here. We're all just like so married 446 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,400 to our opinions. We think that we learned 447 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,840 something one time and it just is that way forever. 448 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:06,640 And you know, that's why Boomers and Gen. 449 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,840 X don't adopt Bitcoin. And, and that's why, you know, 450 00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:12,480 we got a hard time believing in new data. 451 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,880 In truth, it's like, you know, all the conspiracy theories, 452 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,160 like, no, no, no, no, no. You know, the, the guy on the TV 453 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,280 told me it was this way. How dare you tell me it was a 454 00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,080 different way? Like you don't have ATV. 455 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,440 And it's like you're you, you don't have a fancy suit, you 456 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,160 don't have a microphone. And it's like we need to kind of 457 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,320 slay our heroes and just be in pursuit of a goal and then 458 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:38,000 optimize for finding truth towards that pursuit of a goal. 459 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,560 Yeah, I, I, I think it's interesting because I have a 460 00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:49,640 certain opinion about Saylor, which I think is different than 461 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:54,880 than than yours. But I also think that is, that 462 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,680 is fine, right? Like I'd in general, I think in, 463 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,360 in Bitcoin, people are very critical thinkers, right? 464 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:09,360 And I think people like to have discussions etcetera, right. 465 00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:10,040 So for. Sure. 466 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,360 But I think even like, I want to double click on this sailor 467 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:13,760 thing because I think this is deeply interesting. 468 00:27:14,360 --> 00:27:18,280 I bet you and I would agree on facts. 469 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:24,360 We would perhaps or maybe not disagree on our like overarching 470 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:29,000 opinion of that fact. And that disagreement, the fact 471 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:32,360 that we can, that we can agree on facts, I think is half the 472 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:35,080 battle. Disagreeing on the opinion just 473 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,880 means we have different objectives in mind. 474 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,480 And I think that's the whole, that's the whole point is that 475 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,720 we all need and want different objectives, but we have to get 476 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,920 to a part where we agree on facts. 477 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,360 And if you're walking around here and you think that let's 478 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:53,200 pick an easy 1, the COVID vaccine was in any way a net 479 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,920 positive to humanity, Like that's not a fact. 480 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,760 That's just like there are facts that show that to be false. 481 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:04,640 And so I think that we need to get to a spot where we are OK to 482 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,480 like zoom out, look at facts without opinions, look at the 483 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,880 data and then take the data in part our objectives to. 484 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:17,600 Make opinions. Yeah, well, maybe that's a nice 485 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,560 bridge for something else. I wanted to to ask you. 486 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,560 We just mentioned, you know, when when you pick Bitcoin as 487 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:28,680 your money or when you make this conscious decision that you 488 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:33,760 don't want to participate in this debt fueled money system 489 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,480 that is not designed for for a better future for you, right. 490 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,920 Like that is kind of where where the freedom comes from 491 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,120 initially, I would say. And I think a lot of people in 492 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:49,880 Bitcoin talk about, you know, the the sovereign individual 493 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,360 book or heard, heard people talk about it. 494 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:59,080 And I don't think, yeah, again, it's about, you know, chilling 495 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,160 on some tropical islands or whatever. 496 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,000 It's about having mental jurisdiction, like being in 497 00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:09,080 control of what you what you think, what you understand, what 498 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,040 you're studying, you know, and eventually what, what you're 499 00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,560 doing. But how can people that have 500 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:20,280 this mindset still operate in, you know, a high tax, high 501 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:25,160 surveillance western, western country where to connect to what 502 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:27,760 you just said? A lot of people in charge are 503 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,160 saying things that they think have value because they are in 504 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,440 charge and they are on the TV and they have on a suit, you 505 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:38,040 know, and, and a lot of people feel that they should follow 506 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,000 those people because, well, that's what what we've always 507 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,200 done. But I think when you start 508 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:45,840 paying attention and start thinking for yourself and trying 509 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,840 to be critical also in a way that makes it uncomfortable for 510 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:53,160 you, right when when you start seeing stuff you fought was 511 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,920 true, which isn't true. And when you know it isn't true, 512 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:59,360 but the person with the with the suit at the tie on TV still says 513 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:01,560 it's true, you know, that's that's super uncomfortable. 514 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,800 So maybe you can share a bit how, how you are approaching 515 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,760 that or how you see other people approaching that and, and maybe 516 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,680 just your general thought about, you know, if you, if you wake up 517 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,200 in a society like that, it doesn't mean your life gets 518 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,880 easier. Yeah, I think, I think 519 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:20,640 everywhere has their has their problems. 520 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,240 Like we're we're about to go through an insane revolution. 521 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,280 I think that you and I are probably going to be on the tail 522 00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,080 end of our lives when it when it kind of balances back out. 523 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,600 And I hope that, you know, Gen. Z and Gen. 524 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,800 A&B and whatever the other generations are called, get to 525 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:42,800 pick it up and kind of rebuild it back better. 526 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,280 For my European friends that want to buy Bitcoin with ease, 527 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,120 check out Relay. I've been a long time fan and 528 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,240 happy to partner up with what I think is the best Bitcoin only 529 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,560 platform for Europeans. They offer a super simple 530 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,760 beginner friendly app with no distractions and no shit coins. 531 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,320 You can do a quick one time smash, buy or set up automatic 532 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,640 purchases when you're stacking regularly. 533 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,640 And here's the thing that matters most. 534 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:13,520 Relay is 100% self custody. Every set you hold is yours, 535 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,640 your keys, your coins. If you want to get started, 536 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,360 download the app file in my link below or in the description and 537 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:23,720 use code brum that's BR AM at checkout to get 10% of your 538 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,680 fees. A huge shout out to Relay for 539 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:27,760 sponsoring the show. Now let's continue. 540 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,360 There is nowhere safe. I mean, even look at you like El 541 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:36,080 Salvador has a really nice, I think game or like thought 542 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,000 experiment where it's like we got this guy in charge. 543 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:43,080 He changes the rules in order to benefit society. 544 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:47,240 That's amazing, right? El Salvador has more prosperity 545 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,240 now than it ever has had. But we can't ignore the fact 546 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:52,200 that the guy had to change the rules. 547 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,360 And if you can change the rules for good, that means that the 548 00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,440 next guy or even this guy can change the rules for bad. 549 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,400 I mean, you want to talk, I'm sure I'm not sure if you and 550 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,840 Pastor Coyne talked about this, but it's like that's the story 551 00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:06,240 of the Bible. God appointed like the most 552 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,960 godly man to be the first king on the on the whole earth. 553 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:16,520 And his name was Saul and he was amazing for like decades, maybe 554 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,240 not quite decades. And then he falls to like pride, 555 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:24,080 corruption, self indulgence, like all these things. 556 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,280 And he just corrupts the Kingdom. 557 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:30,320 And then So what does God do? He like he appoints a new king 558 00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,000 that's King David. You probably have heard of King 559 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,000 David, like musician dude. He's he's like David and Goliath 560 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:40,320 kills the giants and same thing. He's like got a, a heart after 561 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,640 God and he's like ripping through, you know, God dethroned 562 00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,680 Saul, David's patient. Ten years after Saul is 563 00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,320 dethroned, David like stands up and becomes king. 564 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,680 It's amazing. And then he falls. 565 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,560 He has like 700 wives or something insanely just immense 566 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,840 lust and like terribleness. And then like, it's like when 567 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:06,440 you put a human being in charge and, and all that power, 568 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,840 absolute power corrupts absolutely. 569 00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,440 And so, yeah, if you're in a high tax, high surveillance 570 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,640 area, it's like, what's the trade off? 571 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,760 And you got to start making those decisions with yourself. 572 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,960 I'm convinced there is no one right spot to live for everyone 573 00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,480 because everyone wants different things out of life for my 574 00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:29,000 family. And I like, I'm a little bit 575 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,600 ashamed to say it, but I just love the convenience that 576 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,840 Western Canada has for me. It's beautiful. 577 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:39,160 The climate's pretty good. It's not perfect, but it's fine. 578 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,400 It's like, you know, I can pretty much order if I need a 579 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,800 camera or I need whatever electricity is always on, 580 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,600 Internet's always here. I can flush my toilet paper. 581 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200 Like, you know, there's like modern conveniences here that 582 00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,520 don't exist in some of the nations that are are, you know, 583 00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,400 have less surveillance, less tax, but also less convenience. 584 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:04,440 Would it be better if Canada had less surveillance, less tax? 585 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,200 Yeah. And so I'm going to park here 586 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:08,800 and try to fight for that and make that happen through 587 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:10,679 Bitcoin. Well, through get base, like 588 00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:14,000 through all the other all the other stuff that, you know, all 589 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,159 the efforts that we get to do. But at the end of the day, you 590 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:19,120 got to choose to point your energy to something. 591 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,040 And if you're going to point your energy to running from the 592 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,679 system, the system probably never changes. 593 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,120 If you're going to point your energy to fight the system, you 594 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,960 probably lose, but at least you try. 595 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,480 Well, I, I, I think that's an honest reflection. 596 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,360 And I think it's also something that a lot of people are, are 597 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,880 thinking about, right? Like, you know, in, in my 598 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:44,280 country, there's going to be or well, they have plans to have a 599 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:52,080 35% unrealized gains tax where, you know, people are fighting 600 00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:54,120 against that. It's not final yet, but they're, 601 00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,440 you know, I think they're fighting against it. 602 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:03,560 And yeah, asking the question do do I, do I still want to stay 603 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,760 here is becoming increasingly relevant, which is incredibly. 604 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:12,960 And you think about why Bitcoin is so important because like, if 605 00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:14,600 you've got an asset, you got a home. 606 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,640 If you got a, a stock portfolio, if you hold MSTR, if you've got 607 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,560 any kind of traditional asset in that system, like you are 608 00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:27,560 exposed and legally you might, you might even be exposed with 609 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,200 your Bitcoin. However, you can take your 610 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,280 Bitcoin and physically leave with it. 611 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:33,640 And I think that's the difference. 612 00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,640 You'd be a, you'd be a delinquent and you'd be subject 613 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:40,160 to fines and criminal charges in your country and all this stuff, 614 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,480 but you'd be out. And I think that in a draconian 615 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,600 world, you got to stop thinking about the arbitrary rules that 616 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,760 the human beings have put upon us and start thinking about the 617 00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,640 laws of physics. And if your country decides that 618 00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:00,440 a 35% unrealized gains tax is the best way to treat its 619 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:04,840 citizens, then you're exposed to selling the stuff before you get 620 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,520 like, or you have to abandon it, which sucks that that's 100% 621 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,280 tax. So that's like, not good. 622 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,840 You have to play the game, which also sucks, or you have to pick 623 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,360 up your assets and leave. And we are locking ourselves 624 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,680 inside of all kinds of assets that don't allow you to pick up 625 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,120 and leave. And like, you know, crypto 626 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,200 broadly is one of them. Bitcoin not in self custody is 627 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,120 one of them. One of the only assets that you 628 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,600 can actually pick up and leave with is just real Bitcoin 629 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,240 sitting in self custody. What, what does it mean when it 630 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:40,440 when Bitcoin gets boring? Is that a a good thing or is 631 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,840 that a dangerous thing? We see, you know, with this 632 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:47,040 whole, you know, Epstein stuff for the price going down. 633 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,160 We, you know, I see a lot of uninformed people that have 634 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,800 never researched or talked about Bitcoin before, but they do have 635 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:58,160 a big audience, you know, saying all kinds of things about it, 636 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,400 incredibly uninformed. I I do, I do think that is 637 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:08,240 dangerous in a sense that, you know, every, every asset, every 638 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,600 development, whatever has a certain narrative or idea around 639 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,680 it, right. So it's, it's, it's in that 640 00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:19,040 sense always. How do you say that? 641 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,400 Like, you know, the, the perception is malleable forever, 642 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:25,880 basically. But yeah, when Bitcoin becomes 643 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,960 more boring, like, is that a good thing, a bad thing? 644 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:29,200 What? What do you mean by that? 645 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,120 Point neither. I think that I'm a dopamine 646 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,600 junkie, so I definitely like exciting Bitcoin. 647 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,520 I like the green candles and the red candles and you know, work 648 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:42,720 is always more chaotic. I'm a chaos maxi. 649 00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:47,160 So it's like, you know, but I think philosophically speaking, 650 00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,720 like we don't want our money to be exciting. 651 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:55,840 We don't want to have to be beholden to like like the fact 652 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,280 there's even currency markets to play and forex markets and like, 653 00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:06,240 you know, we have to gamble our hard earned and saved money just 654 00:38:06,240 --> 00:38:07,640 to survive. That's a problem. 655 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,600 And I think when we have boring Bitcoin, you and I are never 656 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:12,600 going to experience pure boring Bitcoin. 657 00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,880 But if you watch Tomer, have you do you know who Tomer is? 658 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,120 You watch his his video about about like the prosperity that 659 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,920 is Bitcoin. I forget what the title is 660 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:26,520 called, but it's beautiful. It's is it that one or is it 661 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:28,040 Bitcoin is generational wealth, I think is. 662 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,040 Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, for people 663 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,680 listening, look up those two. Bitcoin is beautiful and Bitcoin 664 00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:36,040 is generational wealth. It's fantastic. 665 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,080 I'm actually, Tomer and I are sitting down next week to have 666 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,000 him on the Adam O'Brien show, which I'm super pumped on. 667 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:45,480 But I, I, I just, I really can't help shake the feeling that in 668 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:51,080 100 years, the total market cap of Bitcoin will be equivalent to 669 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:55,600 what humans can produce. And like really, everything else 670 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,000 is a consumable. And to Jeff Booth's point, 671 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,720 everything falls to the price of production. 672 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,800 And I think that we won't see that. 673 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,000 But that is the Bitcoin promise. And you want to know how boring 674 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,040 bitcoins going to be when it's when it's when the price of 675 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:15,920 Bitcoin can only move because human beings have innovative and 676 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,120 produced. That's going to be boring 677 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:20,520 because it'll be real innovation at that point. 678 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,720 It won't be fake fairy dollars that have been air dropped in 679 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:27,640 from some executive order. It's going to be actual value 680 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:33,520 driving the conversation, real money, human energy driving the 681 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,960 value of your money. And when that happens, we're 682 00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:40,680 going to see and find out real quick how valuable people think 683 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:44,280 climate initiatives are and how valuable people think, you know, 684 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,000 all these nonsense government initiatives, like all the virtue 685 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,680 signaling stops real quick when it's coming out of your direct 686 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:54,200 pocket. And I think that's probably 687 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,960 where the world starts to prosper and thrive. 688 00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:00,240 What I like about bitcoins that this proof of work is in 689 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:02,920 everything. Like like you said, if you if 690 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,280 you see someone talk and not walking the walk, it's fucking 691 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,080 bullshit when you know that there there is something else 692 00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,320 that exists that incentivizes you. 693 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,600 To walk your talk basically, right, like once you know that 694 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:21,080 exists that that is why Bitcoin is this mirror idea, right? 695 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:26,160 You, you can uphold that kind of like level of, of, of, of what 696 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,400 you expect for, for other people to do so yeah, I don't really 697 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:34,960 know where I wanted to go go on which direction, but it's just 698 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,720 so fascinating that the proof of work part comes back in 699 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:39,880 everything. And it's only because we know 700 00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,160 that there is something like proof of, of work, right. 701 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,040 We, we could actually argue that. 702 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:50,800 Yeah, the people with the suit on TV, that is proof of stake. 703 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,920 It's look at me, I'm sitting in this chair. 704 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:56,160 I have this title. I'm therefore, yeah, like, and 705 00:40:56,160 --> 00:41:01,080 therefore what I say is true or has value and well, and, and 706 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,320 that is pure nonsense because that is not the only option. 707 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,960 It doesn't make sense that that is the only option for us. 708 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,200 No, of course not man. And I think again, it's like 709 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:16,160 slaying the hero, right? It's fine to take different 710 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,080 tidbits from what people say. Hey, listen. 711 00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,400 Like that's it's the only way to communicate is by listening to 712 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,080 other people. That's that's really the only 713 00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,600 way to learn, whether it's in written form or it's in verbal 714 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,480 form. You cannot learn unless you 715 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,760 listen to other people. But we have to kind of decouple 716 00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:37,360 this idea that people are the things they can teach you and 717 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:41,440 you can love what somebody says without loving that person. 718 00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:43,800 And I think that that's a really important distinction to make. 719 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:49,160 You know, like I, I call people all the time, like if I'm going 720 00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:51,640 to disappoint you, like if you know, if you're looking at me as 721 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:56,080 some like as some idol or some perfect being, don't I'm going 722 00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:59,040 to disappoint you. It's fine to listen to what I 723 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:02,640 say and and take it for what it's worth. 724 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,880 But like, you know, me and the man on the TV and the person you 725 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:11,240 will act and you know everyone. You just cannot have your 726 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:16,000 personal being locked in that kind of a hero because it just, 727 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:17,600 it'll fail you time and time again. 728 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:24,600 Yeah, Yeah, I fully agree. So to wrap up to two questions. 729 00:42:24,720 --> 00:42:29,080 If if someone is listening and still feels, you know, like 730 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,800 someone our age, a millennial and they they feel or they start 731 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:37,600 seeing that they are a slave to a lender right now. 732 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,320 And that kind of that path is something that doesn't excite 733 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,960 them toward the future. But they, they have no Bitcoin 734 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,760 or a little Bitcoin. How, how do they start? 735 00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:54,000 Like how do you start becoming, you know, the, the, the, the 736 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,320 rebel or, or, or you know, the rebellion against your old self 737 00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:58,600 or something, something like that. 738 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,400 Like how, how should people start? 739 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,760 Like what's a practical tip or guidance you would give to 740 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,400 people? Yeah, I think you start with 741 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,080 your habits, forget like the last step is buying Bitcoin. 742 00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:12,080 You got to you got to right size your your heart and your habits 743 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,440 before owning Bitcoins going to mean anything to you if you own 744 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:21,080 Bitcoin and at 10 XS in price, right we go from here to 100K 745 00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,200 because that's what's there are two 2,000,000 bucks because 746 00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,600 that's what it's going to do. But you haven't right sized your 747 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,040 heart and your reasons and your your time preference. 748 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,840 Then you're going to sell that Bitcoin to buy something dumb. 749 00:43:37,080 --> 00:43:40,320 Like 10 years ago I put away one Bitcoin and I was like, when 750 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:45,640 this Bitcoin can buy me a McLaren 720 S, I am here for it. 751 00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,040 I got my one UTX. So I'm like it's locked away, 752 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:55,960 it's protected, I'm ready. And today that one Bitcoin is 753 00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:00,040 like earmarked for my grandkids. And I think that that mindset 754 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,080 shift is just so important to realize. 755 00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:05,360 You don't really need a 720 S, right? 756 00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,440 You don't really need a new house or like this, you know, 757 00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,880 fancy, updated, whatever. It's like you need generational 758 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,160 wealth. And so step one is to find a 759 00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:21,360 path to build those habits, whether it's spending within 760 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,560 your means, right? Forget paying off your debt. 761 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,360 How do you just start living without consumer debt? 762 00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,440 Let's just start there. Can you go on a cash diet and 763 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,920 still save money? If so, great. 764 00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,560 You can probably pay down the debt that you already have. 765 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:38,840 Once your debt is paid down, you're going to have such a good 766 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,240 control over your impulses. You're going to be so 767 00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,160 financially disciplined that you're going to be able to 768 00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:48,080 accumulate Bitcoin at an alarming rate and you won't blow 769 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,240 it the second it's green. And I think that that three 770 00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,600 stepped approach is probably like one of the most important 771 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:59,520 things that we can, that we can highlight is just you don't get 772 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:01,240 generationally wealthy by accident. 773 00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,560 You get it through discipline and a strong mindset, you know, 774 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:09,920 understanding what that means. And that's probably where most 775 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:14,800 people go wrong is they think they do all the right things, 776 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:18,680 but they do it without the the the change of heart, so to 777 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:19,960 speak. And I think that's where people 778 00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:22,120 get caught. Awesome. 779 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:26,360 Like, yeah, I love, I love that. My last question, and I ask 780 00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:29,880 everyone the same question, which is what is a core belief 781 00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:34,520 that you will never let go of? Jesus Christ is the Lord and 782 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:38,640 Savior of our universe. I just, it's like it's tough. 783 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:40,760 It's tough to ignore the apologetics. 784 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,120 That's got nothing to do with Bitcoin. 785 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,480 But I do have a presentation that I call Jesus is a 786 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,280 Bitcoiner. And and I think that, you know, 787 00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:51,920 if I want to write this down, I actually think that you're your 788 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,600 journey, your Bitcoin journey has three phases. 789 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,160 It's kind of got this pre bitcoiner phase, It's got this 790 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,880 Bitcoiner phase and then it's got like this Jesus maxi phase. 791 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:05,200 And I think that Bitcoin ultimately leads you towards 792 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,480 objective truth. And it is so difficult to ignore 793 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,280 the objective truth of Jesus Christ. 794 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,440 Awesome. Well, thanks for sharing and 795 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,360 thanks for your time. And yeah, let's stay in touch. 796 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:18,440 Looking forward to it, Bram. Thanks so much. 797 00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:19,640 Cheers. Thanks. 798 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:23,080 I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, you can click here 799 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,440 to find more just like it and click here to find all Bitcoin 800 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,400 for Millennials podcast episodes. 801 00:46:28,720 --> 00:46:31,840 Also, if you want to help me shine a light on the message of 802 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:36,000 Bitcoin, please like this video and subscribe to stay connected. 803 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:37,880 I hope to see you for the next episode. 804 00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:38,400 Bye.