1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,640 Hey there, this is from Konstein and you're listening to Bitcoin 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,440 for Millennials. Together with my guests on this 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,040 podcast, I go on a journey to discover how our current 4 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,000 financial system works, why it's flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 5 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,480 most relevant technology that you, my fellow millennials, 6 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,320 should understand and adopt. In this episode, I'm joined by 7 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,080 Mitchell Askew. He's the head analyst at 8 00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:21,680 Blockware Solutions, an industry leader in Bitcoin mining 9 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,520 services, which includes a marketplace to buy or sell your 10 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:28,560 own hosted Bitcoin mining rigs. He's also the host of their 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:30,680 podcast called Blockware Intelligence. 12 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:33,480 Welcome man. How is it to be on the other 13 00:00:33,480 --> 00:00:36,120 side? Yeah, thanks for having me. 14 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:38,600 I'm excited. You know, I'm definitely used to 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:40,720 preparing for the interview by like. 16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,760 Gather questions and researching the guests. 17 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,320 So it's nice to just come on here and I can just let it rip. 18 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:46,760 Nice man. Yeah. 19 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,440 Well, I researched you. We just talked off Mike that I 20 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,960 absolutely love that you're living the like young person's 21 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,560 meme in real life. I saw your living room. 22 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,720 It's your desk your your monitor and a chair and and you said the 23 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,319 main reason is that you can just stack more sets. 24 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:07,640 So I think you're doing. More it's there's a high 25 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,920 opportunity cost for me and the way it's it's. 26 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,960 Funny, right? Like I have a mattress that sits 27 00:01:13,960 --> 00:01:16,280 on the floor and I have a desk for doing work and that's pretty 28 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:18,560 much the only furniture because I want to stack Bitcoin. 29 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,800 But also part of the reason is because I'm really focused right 30 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:25,520 now. We've got the having coming up, 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:27,760 you know there's going to be a massive bull market. 32 00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:31,000 I'm in like go mode right now. I'm trying to prepare as much 33 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,640 content and work as much as I can before that comes. 34 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,640 And so like if I. It may sound silly, but like, 35 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,480 I'm not going to buy ATV and a couch because I just frankly 36 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,600 don't have time to relax. Like, there's no time to relax 37 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,920 right now because this bear market's not going to last 38 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:47,560 forever. So we need to be prepared. 39 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,960 Yeah, I know this feeling. We'll talk about this later, but 40 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:55,600 I saw you start your Bitcoin journey in like 20, 2020. 41 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,800 Like I've been in Bitcoin up, up and down, I have to say for 10 42 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:04,040 for 10 years. But like this, this like time 43 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:08,160 frame before the halving and especially now when you see you 44 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,960 know, people are paying attention again. 45 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:12,920 I'm getting messages again from my friends like hey, where where 46 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:15,520 do I buy Bitcoin? You know, like this is that time 47 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,440 again. I actually, orange built my 48 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,640 girlfriend so she has some Bitcoin, which I'm super proud 49 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,560 of of course. But this is like her first real 50 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:30,200 like halving you know time frame same for you, right. 51 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:33,520 And like every, every time like or like today the price went 52 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,320 down a bit like like low 45. Now it's like mid 37 you know. 53 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,120 And she's like oh I was down this morning but now I'm up 54 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,160 again, you know. And then like like this whole 55 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:47,560 feeling of suspense. I almost want to say, you know, 56 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:52,280 like it's just so much fun. Like I and and you as well, you 57 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,000 know, you know what you have and I know what I have and I know 58 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,640 what this gonna be and it's just really fun. 59 00:02:57,640 --> 00:03:01,560 So I love that you're like tuned in and ready for it because 60 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,680 yeah, it's just it's just fun. Like, it's great. 61 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,600 Like if you know what you have then you know you will really 62 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,120 enjoy this time period. Yeah. 63 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,000 We wouldn't have made it this far if we Yeah, we wouldn't have 64 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,240 made it this far if we didn't understand what it is we're 65 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,360 holding. I would have capitulated long 66 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,120 ago. But thankfully, you know, we've 67 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:21,240 put in the work, so we're still here, still here. 68 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:23,600 That's great, man. I love that. 69 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:26,320 You're so young and you see it and you're into it. 70 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,000 And yeah, that's great, man. Like I, one of the things I want 71 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,560 to ask you so. So obviously, you're not a 72 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:34,320 millennial, you're a bit younger, you're part of Gen. 73 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:36,160 Z. Like what is What's your 74 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,680 experience helping your generation? 75 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,760 Understand Bitcoin, right. So I'm I'm Gen. 76 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:47,960 ZI was born in 2023 years old. And to be honest and this may 77 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,960 surprise people but I've noticed like not a lot of my peers are 78 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,480 into it, despite the fact that we're the first real digital 79 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:58,800 generation. Social media really became 80 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,480 popular when I was in middle school, early high school. 81 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,760 We've grown up using computers our whole lives and Despite 82 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,600 that. This idea of like digitally 83 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,320 native money just hasn't seemed to click with a lot of my peers, 84 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:16,959 and I think mostly it's because everyone is very, very high time 85 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:18,800 preference. I know it's super cliche to talk 86 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,519 about that in Bitcoin like everyone mentions it, but it's 87 00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:23,760 true. A lot of people my age, they're 88 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:28,200 not focused on saving and planning for the long term, Even 89 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,840 really some of them aren't even focused on having like a career. 90 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:34,080 It's a lot of just what can I do this weekend to have a good 91 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,240 time? There's there's a lot of that 92 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:41,200 attitude out there and that type of person doesn't see the need 93 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,360 for Bitcoin, right? Especially someone who's living 94 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,160 paycheck to paycheck. You know, inflation is high, 95 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:48,880 right? You would think that would be an 96 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,080 indicator. I need to find a way to to 97 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,320 combat that. But people are really more so 98 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,560 just sort of struggling financially and they don't have 99 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:58,600 any savings, right? And if you don't have any 100 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,080 savings to begin with, then saving it Bitcoin doesn't make a 101 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:03,240 whole lot of sense. That's that's. 102 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,000 There's not really a need for that, right? 103 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,880 I think the wealthier you are, the the more you need Bitcoin to 104 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,120 an extent, which may sound counterintuitive, but when you 105 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,320 don't have any savings, there's nothing to protect. 106 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:19,400 So I think you know in in my experience working in Bitcoin 107 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,920 too, a lot of the people are are your age more so Millennial and 108 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,160 then even a little older Gen. X so. 109 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,800 Have a hard time communicating it to my peers. 110 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,000 My close friends get it because they they're actually around me 111 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,240 enough to to start, to learn and to absorb. 112 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,760 But it takes a lot of time to understand Bitcoin, as you know, 113 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,080 and a lot of people my age have really short attention spans. 114 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,280 That's why I tick tock so popular YouTube shorts, etc. 115 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:47,480 So you're not going to learn Bitcoin from a 15 second tick 116 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:49,920 tock. And people, a lot of people my 117 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,880 age aren't willing to, to dedicate the time necessary to 118 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:54,480 really understand what Bitcoin is. 119 00:05:57,680 --> 00:05:58,800 Yeah, So what? What? 120 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,880 I I I find it fascinating. Just like you say, like you 121 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,320 don't know anything else than the Internet, right? 122 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,520 Then exchanging value on the Internet, paying for stuff or 123 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,800 having like items in games and stuff like that. 124 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,360 But is that and I also want to get into that later because 125 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,120 you're also really like into this this kind of like 126 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,840 philosophy philosophy. How do you say like philosophy 127 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:31,320 approach to Bitcoin right. Why why why do Gen. 128 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,760 Z years have this like short time preference You think like 129 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,560 is that all external, right? Like you say, it's it's it's how 130 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,920 they consume content and stuff. Or is it? 131 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:46,640 Also I don't know like educational progress or like 132 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,080 how, how, how do you view that? It's an interesting question. 133 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,320 I think certainly the way we consume content is, is a big 134 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,840 part of it. We're not watching like longs, 135 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,280 like 3 hour movies with high like a lot of deep themes, 136 00:07:01,280 --> 00:07:03,440 right? It's more like oh, the new 137 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,520 Marvel movie that's an hour and a half and it's just like action 138 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,200 and like flashes. So there's that element to it, 139 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,840 and then. Perhaps, like the educational 140 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:14,760 system could play a big role in that, right? 141 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:19,240 Just you're stuck in school for 8 hours a day, you have to ask 142 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,120 permission to use the bathroom, You're just sitting there and 143 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,760 you do this for basically your entire formative years. 144 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,440 I think that that definitely, and I mean a lot of what they do 145 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,360 is they put these kids on Adderall because they're not 146 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,280 enjoying that environment, obviously, and they think it's 147 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,880 something wrong with the child when really it's it's the 148 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:39,200 environment that you're putting them in. 149 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,920 But you know, when I think of when I say it out loud, like the 150 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:44,520 school system's been that way for decades. 151 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,960 So maybe that's not necessarily a unique problem with with 152 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,280 Generation Z. But I think, yeah, it's got to 153 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,040 be the the rise of the Internet, right? 154 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,240 Because even your your generation, you didn't have 155 00:07:57,480 --> 00:07:59,200 TikTok when you're in high school, right? 156 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,720 You actually had time for your brain to develop without these 157 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,480 these. Apps and these algorithms that 158 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,520 are designed to capture your attention. 159 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,200 Attention is like oil in this economy, right? 160 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,240 It's it's a valuable commodity. If you can get someone using 161 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,720 your app and keep them on there, you can make a lot of money. 162 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,680 So they designed these things like a casino like TikTok if 163 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:23,040 you. I don't have TikTok, but I know 164 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,760 if you go on on TikTok and you start scrolling like each video 165 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,360 is specifically designed to try and keep you on the app. 166 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,960 I know personally, from going on YouTube, if I click on the home 167 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,159 page, there's gonna be a thumbnail on the title. 168 00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,600 That is appealing to me. These algorithms have it down 169 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,679 pat to keep you there, and it takes a certain level of 170 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:48,120 discipline to break free from. I hesitate to call it like the 171 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,760 chains of the Internet, but there's a certain amount of 172 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:54,040 that. And obviously it has its pros, 173 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:55,080 right? Because you and I can 174 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,080 communicate and we can dive deep on Bitcoin. 175 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:00,680 You can go on the Internet and learn all sorts of different 176 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:02,640 topics. I've got a buddy who who 177 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,560 remodels houses for a living. He never went to school. 178 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:07,360 He never had anybody show him how to do it. 179 00:09:07,560 --> 00:09:09,320 He's learned everything from YouTube. 180 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,960 So there's an infinite amount of pros. 181 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:17,160 But it comes with these cons of. An infinite amount of dopamine 182 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:19,120 readily available at your fingertips. 183 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:22,640 And it takes a certain type of person to be able to resist just 184 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,920 falling into like, the web of of nothing content. 185 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:28,640 Yeah, that's exactly what I wanted to say. 186 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:32,400 Like, you can obviously also use it for your education, right? 187 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:37,520 Because I think compared to my youth where first there wasn't 188 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:41,560 Internet and then there was right like when I was I'd say 189 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:47,440 like 11-12 ish we had like the dial up Internet at home and I 190 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:51,920 was always like trying to find like new things to learn about 191 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,400 like in in general I like to do that but that took that took a 192 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,600 long time before it developed obviously right. 193 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,440 But for your generation like you can learn anything. 194 00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:06,760 Like I, I I think, I think I'm one of the people that thinks 195 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,520 like college or university is only there's only the social 196 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:14,200 part there almost right. And what you can learn is 197 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,920 already free on the Internet and and in some ways way better than 198 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,520 a politically colored university. 199 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,040 You know, whatever, whatever side. 200 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:32,680 So it has to be more than where people consume content, right. 201 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,520 Like what you say, it's it's it's kind of your personality. 202 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:40,480 Like are you curious or are you just OK with how life is or 203 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:47,440 something or maybe you lack like the perspective to think bigger 204 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,680 or outside of, I don't know, the the construct or something like 205 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:55,440 what do you think about that? Yeah, I mean, it's definitely, I 206 00:10:55,440 --> 00:11:00,120 think the way the education system designed in AS it is, 207 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,200 it's like. To breed employee type of people 208 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,840 versus more like entrepreneurial outside of the box thinking. 209 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,560 And you talked, you mentioned universities and I agree a lot 210 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:14,720 of it is the social aspect and it used to be like the 211 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,920 credentials of it, right? If you have a college degree 212 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,040 that actually meant something. You went there, you learned how 213 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,800 to critically think, you're qualified to do some sort of job 214 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:25,880 and you have some skill set. But it's not like that I 215 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,120 graduated. In 2022, and I can, I've 216 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,440 witnessed first hand a lot of these kids, they a lot of the 217 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,280 classes to begin with are pointless. 218 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:36,520 And then nobody's paying attention. 219 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,120 Everybody's just partying. And there's not really all 220 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,480 critical. Exactly. 221 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,640 Yeah, kids are just showing up, you know, to their 9:00 AM 222 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,120 lecture, hungover with the jewel pod and like just in sweatpants. 223 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:49,000 Like not. They don't. 224 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:51,840 Care at all. A lot of the professors don't 225 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:53,640 really care. And then the material that's 226 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,440 being taught is from a textbook that's like 2 decades old, 227 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:01,600 irrelevant to the modern world. And so you get, you know, the 228 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:05,320 last decade every basically like half the population has gone to 229 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:07,440 college. So now the degree is just so 230 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,040 watered down, even when you graduate, it doesn't really 231 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:13,080 guarantee you anything. Not that it should either, 232 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:14,080 right? Because you're not. 233 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,800 Most of these people aren't doing anything productive. 234 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:19,240 Definitely not critically thinking, right. 235 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:24,040 So I think I don't know how we make the world more curious. 236 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,200 I I think maybe it's just something you're born with. 237 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,320 Like certain types of people are curious and and willing to think 238 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:31,960 outside the box and others aren't. 239 00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:36,280 I'm trying to think if there's like any way that we could 240 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,760 change that from a macro level, right. 241 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,840 I guess it really comes down to the individual. 242 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:48,920 Yeah, I think it comes down to the individual, but only after 243 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,120 you get taught something or shown something, right? 244 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,680 Like, I have a young, young child myself. 245 00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:58,440 Like, I am his truth, right? Like, he asks me questions like, 246 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:00,040 how does this work or how does that work? 247 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,440 Or when they explain something in school and he thinks it's 248 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:06,160 different than he asks me and we have a discussion about it, 249 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,560 Right. So I think in general, most kids 250 00:13:09,560 --> 00:13:12,960 are at least like that, right? And of course, like he's also on 251 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:16,240 an iPad sometimes, which, well, I'm still the big thing. 252 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:23,680 But eventually it's also about what is shown to you, I would 253 00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:27,560 say as like this is the world or something, or these are all the 254 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,160 things that you can learn. Or there's all these different 255 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,360 types of people that think, all these different types of things, 256 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,040 you know, and, you know, this person could say this thing and 257 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:37,120 that person could say that thing. 258 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:38,760 And that can both be interesting, right? 259 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,560 It's not a battle and stuff like that. 260 00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:45,680 So I think, yes, it's personal, but also at a younger age, 261 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:47,840 probably what has just been shown to you, but perhaps that 262 00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,480 goes back and and then, you know, we are obviously also 263 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,360 talking about America in a certain type of education or how 264 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,720 that's how that's created. Yeah. 265 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:59,600 I think this is also like a rabbit hole, right? 266 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:02,840 Like, yeah, really, really, really deep down in this. 267 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,280 But I, I, I, I'd like to understand like, so where where 268 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,120 does your interest come from? Like you, your journey started 269 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,000 around 2020. Yes Sir. 270 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:16,400 What was like your turning point or or aha moment in in that 271 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,160 journey that influenced your perspective on this? 272 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,920 Yeah, definitely. I'll say that was a good point 273 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,080 because young children are very curious. 274 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,480 So it has to be something about the environment because every 275 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,840 child I've ever met is just like always asking questions about 276 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,920 everything, you know, wanting to know how it works. 277 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:36,320 So I guess at some point in adolescence, a lot of that goes 278 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,280 away from many people my Bitcoin journey. 279 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:41,720 Yeah. Like you mentioned, it began in 280 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:48,960 2020 and I spent a lot of the summer of 2020 after I they sent 281 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:52,320 us home from university for the lockdowns and everything. 282 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,080 I spent a lot of that summer listening to Thomas Sowell and 283 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:59,000 like other classical economics guys, I didn't discover the 284 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:02,560 Austrian economics yet. But after months, what did you 285 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:04,920 study? So it was Thomas Sowell. 286 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,040 He's this. African American conservative 287 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,760 economist. And I listened to like hours of 288 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,920 his podcasts basically talking about free markets and why 289 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:17,160 they're superior to central planning and a lot of the 290 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,240 problems with like racial tension in America and how it 291 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:23,760 sort of dissolved and how the family structure is actually 292 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,160 really one of the most important foundational pieces to to an 293 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,160 economy. And after months of listening to 294 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,800 him, I had this sort of foundational, you know, I 295 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,920 understood free markets are the way to go. 296 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,600 And then I realized what they did in March 2020. 297 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,200 At the time, I wasn't paying attention, right? 298 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,480 But slowly the Bitcoin price started to trickle up. 299 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,480 It caught my attention. And then I did a little bit of 300 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,120 research and I saw exactly what they did. 301 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,640 I'm like, OK, so they just printed a bunch of money. 302 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,040 This thing that is scarce and cannot be printed is probably 303 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,960 going to appreciate in price. And we're probably going to get 304 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,280 price inflation on goods and services, which is exactly what 305 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:04,400 happened in in 2021 and 2022. So it was really that you know 306 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,320 the massive money printing that caught my eye coupled with 307 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,960 bitcoins number going up and then sort of the icing on the 308 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,440 cake for me and this may sound like crazy or radical. 309 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:18,480 Whatever was the 2020 election, I was completely convinced that 310 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:21,240 it was rigged and. I just lost all trust in 311 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,720 institutions at that point. Maybe it was rigged, maybe it 312 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:24,760 wasn't. I don't know. 313 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:26,080 And at this point I don't really care. 314 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:27,920 Since going down to pick one rabbit hole, I've really 315 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,760 separated, like from politics. I just don't pay attention nor 316 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,360 nor do I like give one out. Who's in the in the Oval Office. 317 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,760 I don't think it matters. I think the central bankers are 318 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:42,080 the real problem. But that that sort of concoction 319 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,640 of money printing, studying free market economics and then losing 320 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,280 trust in institutions. It's a perfect storm for wanting 321 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,120 to to figure out what Bitcoin is and then kind of falling in love 322 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:54,360 with it and falling down the rabbit hole. 323 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,120 Nice, man. Well, when I was your age, I 324 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,840 wasn't thinking about that. So I I do think, well from my 325 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,280 perspective right then, like, I'm not an old man yet, but I 326 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,760 think I'm older and I do. I do see that like in the 327 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,040 younger generation, like sometimes like I've been on 328 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,119 TikTok or like first time I opened Snapchat, I didn't even 329 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,960 understand like the UI, right. It's purposefully made for 330 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:22,839 younger people, right to understand. 331 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,280 But what I like is that, well, what I like, I don't know if 332 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,720 it's good, but I think like we just talked about like the Gen. 333 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,400 C that are kind of like chewed out. 334 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,320 They don't know what to do. You know, they're on their jewel 335 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,280 and all day and looking at TikTok. 336 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,960 But then the other side is, it's kind of like people like you, 337 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:45,000 right, who do follow this kind of like philosophical path. 338 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,920 They study different stuff. They have an open like growth 339 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:52,080 mindset and just trying to figure out like what is going on 340 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:56,240 here and what do I think of it. And so I see this kind of like 341 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,080 dichotomy, but there there seems to be not a lot in the middle. 342 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:02,120 I don't want to go back to the part where we talked about Gen. 343 00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:05,080 Z, but I find it like it triggers me when I hear like you 344 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,360 and I think about me at my age or a bit younger. 345 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,200 But like, I do see that different difference in your 346 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,640 generation, where there are also quite a few like young Gen. 347 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:20,240 Z Ers who are pretty grown up in a sense already. 348 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:21,840 I appreciate it. Yeah. 349 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,520 I see that dichotomy, too. When I look at health in 350 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:29,760 America, you've got the most obese people in the world on one 351 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,880 side, and then you have other people who are, like, die hard 352 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,680 into fitness like that is their life. 353 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:37,800 So yeah, there's like a lot of different dichotomies in the 354 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,320 West. It's almost like, I don't know, 355 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,320 what's the wedge? Maybe we could say it's Fiat 356 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,960 money, but something is driving society in two different 357 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:50,200 directions, even if you look at at it on a geographical basis. 358 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,600 You've got your big cities and a certain type of people live 359 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:56,760 there. And then you go an hour outside 360 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,280 of these big cities into rural America, and that's just a 361 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,560 completely different world. And so same with these, the 362 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,320 curiosity of of Gen. Z. 363 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,800 Like, you've got guys like me, and then you have like, other 364 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,320 people that just don't pay attention to anything bigger 365 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:17,520 than themselves. Yeah, And so when you found 366 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,800 Bitcoin, you're still down the rabbit hole. 367 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,120 You got a job at a Bitcoin company. 368 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,280 Like how? How has it changed your approach 369 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,280 to building wealth or investing the money that you earn with 370 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:32,480 your job? Like, how did you have ideas 371 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,120 about that before? Or did you really create those 372 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:40,160 ideas starting with Bitcoin? Yeah, I definitely created them, 373 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,920 starting with Bitcoin. I had like a Roth IRA and I had 374 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:46,960 like tinkered around buying some stocks, but I had no idea what I 375 00:19:46,960 --> 00:19:49,080 was doing. And I was just like, it wasn't 376 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,040 like a lot of money in there at all to begin with. 377 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:55,800 And I really didn't start saving anything or planning for the 378 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,520 future financially at all until I discovered Bitcoin. 379 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,760 I would just spend the money that I made and I wasn't 380 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:03,680 worried. I also had this like. 381 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,000 False delusion I think a lot of people have when they're in 382 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,680 college is like, oh, I'm guaranteed like a high paying 383 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,440 job right out of college, so I'll worry about money then. 384 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,120 Not exactly the case, and so I spent basically my last. 385 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:19,680 We see the videos. Yeah, right. 386 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:23,200 Exactly. Like, I got $180,000 marketing 387 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,600 degree and I'm rolling sushi because I cannot. 388 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,840 Yeah, you know I can only find like a social media intern job 389 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,080 or something like that. Yeah, I know exactly which video 390 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:34,760 you're talking about. There's a lot of people like 391 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:35,240 that. I've. 392 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,080 I was actually talking about this buddy of mine yesterday, 393 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:40,360 like all these people from my high school that, you know, they 394 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,320 went to these nice universities and they were, you know, 395 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,520 valedictorian in high school and now they're just like 3-4 years 396 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:47,920 out of college. Still haven't found a job 397 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:49,720 surprising how many people are like that. 398 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,640 But anyway, so I spent my entire last year of college like trying 399 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,920 to develop a skill set that I could market to Bitcoin 400 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:01,000 companies and low key like Ship posting on Twitter is pretty 401 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,400 much how I got my start. But slowly I've been able to 402 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,480 develop more more marketable skill sets Just working at Block 403 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,200 where it's uh we're so we're Bitcoin mining startup and 404 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,920 anybody who's worked at a startup knows you have to wear a 405 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,640 bunch of different hats. So I feel like I've been able to 406 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,880 learn on hyper speed. I've been working with Block 407 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,640 where for almost 2 years now. But it feels like I have 6-7 408 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,000 years of experience and I've been able to learn from a lot of 409 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,400 really smart guys like Will Clemente used to work at our 410 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,040 company and Joe Burnett who's now at Unchained. 411 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:34,120 Getting to work closely with those guys taught me a lot about 412 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:37,640 Bitcoin and like on chain analytics, Bitcoin mining and 413 00:21:37,640 --> 00:21:39,720 just how the entire industry works. 414 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,440 Coupled that with getting to listen to all these Bitcoin 415 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:47,080 podcasts like the guys like Preston Pish, and just learning 416 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:50,320 how the macro works. I've learned so much since I 417 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,840 graduated college just working at Bitcoin and consuming Bitcoin 418 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,720 content. Like I probably learned more in 419 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:59,360 the last year and a half than I did in like the four years 420 00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,720 prior. Very cool, yeah. 421 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:08,320 And so you are someone who started saving with Bitcoin. 422 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,520 This is how you learned about it or created like your own 423 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,280 approach if. Well, there's a lot of 424 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,480 millennials listening. I can actually now see all the 425 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,520 stats and stuff. And so I see I'm actually 426 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,640 reaching millennials, so that. So that's great. 427 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:26,360 But like the millennials that are listening and also also 428 00:22:26,360 --> 00:22:31,720 younger and perhaps also older, like how how do you view Bitcoin 429 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:37,880 as a long term like investment or saving vehicle and how do you 430 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,520 tie that to like it's finite nature? 431 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,200 Like what is your view on that? Like, how do you see that? 432 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:49,920 Yeah, to me, Bitcoin is the only safe long term investment 433 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:54,680 because you can buy a stock and there's an infinite number of 434 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,040 things that can go wrong with that company between now and 435 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,160 when we're ready to retire. In a few decades, you could buy 436 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,080 real estate and that jurisdiction can just go 437 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,400 completely crazy, pass insane taxes, pass insane laws, not be 438 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,880 tough on crime, and just turn into an absolute hellhole. 439 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,400 Case in point, it's like San Francisco or Los Angeles or 440 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,600 Brooklyn, all these places that are just rampant with crime. 441 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:26,680 Gold has been manipulated for centuries, Millennia, with just 442 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,440 paper gold. All this crap out there in the 443 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:33,200 gold market, you don't want government bonds or any sort of 444 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:36,240 Fiat derivative because that's not going to keep up with the 445 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,440 debasement of the currency. So literally the only thing 446 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,000 you're left with is Bitcoin, because we know with Bitcoin 447 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,880 there's no counterparty risk. There's nobody who can come in 448 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:48,520 and screw things up. It's going to be a block every 449 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,080 10 minutes and it's going to be, you know, 6.25 Bitcoin per 450 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,280 block. Now that's going to drop in five 451 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,960 months, four years after that, that's going to drop again, 452 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,120 right? There's only a few like handful 453 00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:03,680 of things in life that we know for certainty will happen. 454 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,760 We know every day the sun's going to come up and then the 455 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,520 sun's going to set. We know that humans are probably 456 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,480 going to corrupt institutions, right? 457 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,120 Anytime a group of humans get together, something inevitably 458 00:24:16,120 --> 00:24:20,280 gets corrupted there. We know that the sky is blue and 459 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:23,120 we know that Bitcoin will never have more than 21 million. 460 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,360 So. And we also know that in Fiat 461 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:28,760 currency, the supply of that has to mathematically increase in 462 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,520 order to service the debt. So every other asset just has 463 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,520 these clouds of uncertainty around it that aren't there with 464 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,720 Bitcoin. And if you're planning for the 465 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:42,400 long term, you need something like Bitcoin that is just immune 466 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,200 to all this. The just constant changes in the 467 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,920 world. Something that's rock solid that 468 00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,880 can't be messed with. Yeah, I. 469 00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,200 I see it exactly the same that that's not a surprise, I think. 470 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,880 But what I find so interesting is that in your short answer, I 471 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:04,200 think you explained it perfectly actually, and that it's not even 472 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,160 about, you know, I think you don't even have to mention 473 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:09,960 Bitcoin, right? Like if you say this is how it 474 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,520 is right now, these are all like the options that you could use 475 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:16,640 to save your money. You know your your energy, your 476 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,560 value into the future through space and time. 477 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,840 This is how they are corrupted or could be changed or like 478 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:27,280 these are all the external factors that can influence your 479 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,720 personal risk decision after you actually took the decision, 480 00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,840 right? It's all outside of yours, you 481 00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:37,040 know circle of influence. What if there's a thing that 482 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,400 just is that will always be there that just works. 483 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,240 Even if there's two, well, satellites, we now have 484 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:45,520 satellites running the the network, right? 485 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,080 So it will always be there unless someone. 486 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,600 Sends a rocket and shoots it out of space. 487 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,400 So it's just the protocol, it's just the thing. 488 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,000 It's just there. We know how it works, everyone 489 00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:57,800 can use it. If you want to use it, you just 490 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,280 follow the rules. If you don't follow the rules, 491 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,120 you cannot use it. It's way more transparent. 492 00:26:04,120 --> 00:26:09,240 It's auditable 24/7, 365 like. Does that sound better than your 493 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,960 current? Options, you know? 494 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:12,800 If yes, then the answer you know. 495 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,960 And then you say that's that's Bitcoin, right? 496 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,040 And I find it so fascinating that when you put these two 497 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,680 things together like in in just, I think, I also think Bitcoin is 498 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,400 not about intelligence and stuff like that, but it's like a 499 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,360 rationale thing, right? Like, is it, do you want this or 500 00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:31,480 do you want the other thing? And if you say, I want, I want 501 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,160 the current thing, then you know, fine. 502 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,440 I don't think you can like pull those people into Bitcoin, 503 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,680 right? Like they have to. 504 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:42,760 Think it's not OK. And then they they look at like 505 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:44,920 other options, you know, or something else they could do. 506 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,000 But if there's people who think like OK, you know that that new 507 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,480 thing, that other thing, that alternative thing that is way 508 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,640 more transparent and open and etcetera, etcetera, that sounds 509 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,120 more interesting than in my mind that should be like a huge 510 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:00,280 trigger for people to start studying, right. 511 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,640 But also in my experience, there's a lot of people who say 512 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,040 like. Well, yeah, OK. 513 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:09,600 You know, the current thing is a nuisance or you know, whatever. 514 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,480 Like, I don't, I don't really feel the problem. 515 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,920 And when you were answering the question, I was thinking about 516 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,120 this, that this is my experience. 517 00:27:16,120 --> 00:27:19,960 But I've, I have the exact same experiences with you described 518 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,600 with your generation in the sweatpants and the jewel like 519 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,000 it's just like it's like oblivious or something, right 520 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,280 They are or is it oblivious or ignorance? 521 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,080 I don't know. What's the right word like? 522 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:35,400 It's like it feels not real to them like like life does not 523 00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,240 feel real to them or something right. 524 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:39,280 Like as if it's not happening to them. 525 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:44,320 When when you how do you say like describe like something 526 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,960 negative or something that you know in your example you know 527 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,280 well you should put in the time to learn things and then you 528 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,280 find what you enjoy and you know your life gets better. 529 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,480 Etcetera, etcetera. Like feels like life is. 530 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,000 They are not part of life or something. 531 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,440 I don't know. I'm rambling a bit, but I just, 532 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,880 I I find it fascinating because it is very simple. 533 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,920 It's like, do you want A or do you want B? 534 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:10,960 If you don't want A, you want B, right? 535 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,720 And then if you want B, you have to study. 536 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:18,000 Obviously there's not really a question in there, but I think 537 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,880 it's just fascinating how basic you can make it. 538 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:24,560 Yeah, I definitely agree. I think the type of people 539 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,280 you're describing, I think that may be where the term NPC 540 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,280 originated because they it does feel like they're simply not 541 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:37,240 part of life. And I guess as the Fiat system 542 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,920 just continues to get worse and worse because it's not getting 543 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:45,400 better, you'll see people just adopt Bitcoin because they don't 544 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,280 have a choice right now. We do have option A and option 545 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,240 B, right? Option A, Fiat slowly lose your 546 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,920 purchasing power overtime. Option B Bitcoin have to take a 547 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,280 little personal responsibility, endure some volatility, but in 548 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,880 the long run you preserve your time and energy, You preserve 549 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:06,720 your economic energy across time. 550 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,480 But as you and I both know, option A is changing from lose a 551 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,920 little bit of wealth overtime, to lose a moderate amount of 552 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,840 wealth over time, to inevitably lose a lot of wealth in a very 553 00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,920 short amount of time. That's the end state of every 554 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,960 Fiat currency. So as option A just gets pushed 555 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,360 further and further on that spectrum, people are just 556 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,560 they're going to get left behind and the only thing standing will 557 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:37,200 be option B, which is Bitcoin. Couldn't make more sense, right? 558 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:42,680 Yeah, exactly. And So what are like the most 559 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,840 common? Like counter arguments you face 560 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,680 when when you advocate for Bitcoin with the people who are 561 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:55,160 open to to hearing what a lot of your time on is either like 562 00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:00,200 doomsday scenario like what good does Bitcoin do me if everything 563 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,200 goes to chaos there's nuclear war. 564 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,880 So with that, I mean, I don't really have a great response it 565 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,520 immediately you're gonna want water, you're gonna want beef 566 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:14,120 and bullets and shelter. But the point I'll add to that 567 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,880 is eventually economies and societies recover, right? 568 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,000 We can, we've had massive wars, but eventually with the 569 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,880 government, like if their hands off the economy will start to 570 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,240 recover, some money will emerge from that. 571 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,720 It's going to be Bitcoin because that'll be the only thing left 572 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,040 standing. And then the other sort of 573 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,840 counter argument I get from people who are open minded 574 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:38,120 enough is just lack of technical knowledge, right. 575 00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:42,280 They don't understand how it works and so therefore it sort 576 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,320 of shies them away. They they don't understand why 577 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,760 Bitcoin can't be changed, why the 21 million supply cap can't 578 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:50,920 be changed. They don't really understand the 579 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,920 concept of decentralization and the fact that there is nobody in 580 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:59,120 charge. But to that, I always say you go 581 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,480 and you swipe your credit card and you have no idea how that 582 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,840 works on the back end. I barely have any idea. 583 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,240 We're using this program to record our podcast. 584 00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,840 No idea how it works. A lack of knowledge on a 585 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,840 technical side doesn't stop technologies from getting 586 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:16,800 adopted. We all drive cars. 587 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,200 Not all of us are mechanics or engineers. 588 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,000 We all fly on planes. None of us are pilots, none of 589 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,360 us are aerospace engineers. So that's what I always say to 590 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:26,920 that. And that usually gets a head 591 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,480 nod. And like a Haw, I never thought 592 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,480 about it like that. That's funny. 593 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:35,400 I actually had a conversation today where. 594 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:42,440 We talked about like even in a very positive message, people 595 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:46,400 can find the negative. Even in a negative message, they 596 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,360 can find a positive and a negative thing, right? 597 00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,320 Like so. So you can say some negative 598 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,240 stuff and then still you can still, you know, split that even 599 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:56,720 into positive and negative again. 600 00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,240 So maybe this is like one of those examples right? 601 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,280 Where it's like, yeah, well I. I I don't fully understand it. 602 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,520 So I I'll, I'll, I have to comment something right. 603 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:10,000 Or I have to right. You know go go against this this 604 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:13,320 crazy positive story that Mitch is telling me. 605 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,680 Yeah. And that's how I started in 606 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:18,560 Bitcoin and I'm sure you're probably the same way. 607 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,280 It's it is a lot of like this thing seems too good to be true. 608 00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:23,920 Like I have to be missing something. 609 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:25,880 This has to be a scam in some sort of way. 610 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,800 I gotta figure out what that is and I think that's ultimately 611 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,160 what the Bitcoin rabbit hole is. It's like continually trying to 612 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,800 prove your initial hypothesis wrong and just never finding 613 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:42,680 evidence. 100%, I actually read the tweet today that was, quote, 614 00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:47,040 tweeting like Michael Saylor. Michael Saylor said there are no 615 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:51,720 informed critiques to Bitcoin. That sounds so crazy, right? 616 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,480 It sounds outrageous, like, duh. Of course you would say that 617 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,520 when you are into something. I have not seen them either. 618 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,560 They are not there, right. Like if you're if you're an 619 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:09,160 intellectual, curious, open minded person, you will, you 620 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,320 will fall into this rabbit hole because there are so many 621 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,280 dimensions that any of these people can like touch and and 622 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,200 start with learning about Bitcoin that yeah, like I agree 623 00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:24,520 with that. There are no informed critiques. 624 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,080 It's all very superficial. It's feeling, it's ignorance or 625 00:33:30,080 --> 00:33:32,720 not knowing, but then still wanting to have like a 626 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,800 discussion, right? But I do experience that when I 627 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,280 say something like this, like I had a discussion with a guy I 628 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:47,440 know in real life on on Twitter and he he's like APHD somewhere. 629 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,160 Like he's very smart. I know he's very, very smart and 630 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,600 intellectual and he likes to learn new things and stuff like 631 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:54,400 that. And I tweeted something about 632 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,080 Bitcoin. He quote tweeted me like, oh, 633 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,280 why are all the bitcoiners always saying, like, oh, it's so 634 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,600 amazing, he thinks it's crap. And I just replied to him and I 635 00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,160 couldn't even believe that I was saying it. 636 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,160 But I was saying like, dude, I know you. 637 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,080 You are very smart. You are intellectually curious. 638 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,800 I can honestly say you don't know enough to have this opinion 639 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,760 like you are wrong. So I I suggest to you like study 640 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:20,199 more because I know you can understand this like and even 641 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:23,800 now when I repeat it I think like it sounds so like audacious 642 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,159 right. Like it's a sign. 643 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,159 Sounds so kind of, like superior. 644 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:31,400 Like I I'm smarter than you, but it's totally not what I mean. 645 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,639 I know it sounds like that, but I I I mean it like really from I 646 00:34:35,639 --> 00:34:37,719 think like even a loving way like dudes. 647 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,800 You can understand this. Too even, like, I think he's 648 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,480 smarter than me, right. So that is actually what I mean. 649 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:48,520 But there's there's almost no different way to say it, right? 650 00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:50,560 Like I'm trying to trigger him also in a way. 651 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,360 Like, yeah. Why is why is Brum saying this 652 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,080 to me? Like, does he really, you know, 653 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,840 do you know what I mean? Like, I I, I yeah, you, you 654 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,160 responded to that in a friendlier way than I would 655 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:02,840 have. I would usually just say like 656 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,800 come back, come back when you can explain the difficulty 657 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,200 adjustment or something like that. 658 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,840 You're spot on dude. There are no informed critiques. 659 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:14,840 And there I will say this, there are past like quote UN quote 660 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:19,600 former bitcoiners, but only the only former bitcoiners that 661 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:23,240 exist is because they've had their incentives warped by 662 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:24,760 greed. Basically, right. 663 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,680 You've got like a Brian Armstrong, for example. 664 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,200 Like he understood Bitcoin, he got it, but he wanted to make 665 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,200 money selling shit coins. So that's what he peddles for 666 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,680 like a Gary Gensler who used to give these lectures on Bitcoin 667 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,080 to commodity. And now he's like, who knows? 668 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,600 Right. What he believes followed it, 669 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,600 actually. Yeah, Yeah. 670 00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:48,120 So you don't really. Have way like it's their their 671 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,560 personal incentives changed right. 672 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:54,480 But it's not. That is not critique against 673 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,000 Bitcoin. Yeah, there was nothing that 674 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,480 there was no new piece of information that they discovered 675 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,720 that made them think bitcoins, not what you and I think it is. 676 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:05,640 It's just they found a different way to make money that involves 677 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,600 promoting false narratives. Yeah, exactly. 678 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,360 Yeah. That's why where I do get like 679 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,040 kind of triggered when I see like these Greenpeace people 680 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,920 have like presentations where it's just like you were spending 681 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,160 like donated money to spread. Misinformation or it's 682 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,000 disinformation actually based on studies that have been debunked 683 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:31,760 like 10 times already. You know, like that is malicious 684 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,800 in a sense, right? Like they they are following a 685 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,640 certain agenda and they know they are wrong. 686 00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:41,960 Like, I don't they're they are very stupid if they think 687 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,040 they're right, you know. So I think they're smart enough 688 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,400 to do this on purpose. Like that is what triggers me. 689 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:51,320 But I do think that. You know, even Michael Saylor, 690 00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,320 you know, one of the largest holders of Bitcoin, like, he 691 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,880 tweeted, like, I don't, I don't know the exact tweet, but like 692 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,680 Bitcoin is nothing, It's going to die or whatever and like in 693 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,880 in 2014, fifteen ish or something. 694 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,440 And now he's one of the biggest holders, right. 695 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:10,960 So I think everyone starts at. Point similar to that, right? 696 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,880 You don't understand. You see all these people you 697 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,000 think like you are smarter than these people. 698 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,440 They are all idiots or cult believers or whatever, right? 699 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:21,760 And then something triggers you, right? 700 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,280 Like you hear, at least for me, like I hear people who I think I 701 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:29,280 heard, people who I think are very smart that I respect and 702 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,440 that at one point they talked about Bitcoin. 703 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,240 And that triggered me when I thought, like, OK, I respect 704 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,560 this person. I know they're smart. 705 00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,160 I know they're you know, inquisitive and stuff like that. 706 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,160 And why why do they talk about this, right. 707 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:46,840 If if they talk about this, maybe I should look at it too, 708 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,040 right. And so I hope, I just hope that 709 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,160 I can be that for some people hopefully in a nice way. 710 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,600 I try like on Twitter but I think it's just a pity. 711 00:37:56,760 --> 00:38:00,760 It's a it's a waste of yeah like intellect of these people that 712 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,600 they focus on the negative instead of spending time to. 713 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,640 Try to understand why other people are so adamant about 714 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,160 this, right? Yeah, I could not agree more. 715 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,240 That was certainly a tipping point for me. 716 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,440 I I heard people talking about Bitcoin, the people that really 717 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,040 seemed to get it. I admired their intelligence. 718 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:20,920 Like, wow, these these guys are really smart. 719 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,280 All these smart people are into this orange coin thing. 720 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,000 I should probably figure out what it is and try to catch up. 721 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:27,800 What's? Going on. 722 00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,320 Yeah, so now you work at a Bitcoin company, right? 723 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,400 What's it like working with other bitcoiners at a Bitcoin 724 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,640 company? Dude, it's awesome. 725 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:39,800 I could not imagine doing anything else. 726 00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,760 One of my favorite parts is whenever there's like a good day 727 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,160 for price action and the vibes and the company chats are just 728 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:50,720 Immaculate. But on like a more serious note, 729 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,360 I've been able to learn so much from these guys like our CEO 730 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,040 Mason Joppa. He founded this company in 2016 731 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:59,680 or 2017. Like he's been through the bull 732 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,480 and the bear cycles. He's seen it all. 733 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:06,840 Our Chief Investment Officer Sam, he used to trade on Forex 734 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,280 on Wall Street for like 4 years. The I'm working with a bunch of 735 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,600 really, really smart people and just trying to soak in as much 736 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:18,760 information as I can. And working specifically in 737 00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,880 Bitcoin mining has really opened my eyes. 738 00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:24,320 And I think mining is almost a separate you've got the orange 739 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:27,760 pill and then you have the mining pill and there's two 740 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,440 mining pills almost there's there's like mining is a 741 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,680 profitable way to earn more Bitcoin. 742 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:36,160 And then there's mining as it pertains to the energy grids. 743 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,600 And we can unpack each of these separately. 744 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,560 Let's let's start with the second one, right? 745 00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:44,440 Bitcoin mining's impact on energy grids is something like 746 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,160 like nothing else. And I had no knowledge of 747 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,760 anything about energy grids before I worked in Bitcoin 748 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,600 mining, which is a shame because we're all I've got this light 749 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:55,840 plugged in, I've got that light on, I've got those Christmas 750 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,360 lights on, I've got my computer plugged in, we're all using 751 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,080 energy all the time, but nobody stops to think about what's 752 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,280 going on behind that. This energy, this that's coming 753 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,640 from my light, it's not being like produced on the spot 754 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:11,560 because I can call it or turn it off on demand, right? 755 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:15,800 So it has to already be. It's already being produced and 756 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,440 it's just being redirected, right? 757 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:21,120 So energy companies, they have this problem of they don't know 758 00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,200 what demand is going to be. Demand's going to be the highest 759 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,000 in the hottest days of the year, around 5:00 or 6:00, when people 760 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,680 get home from work, they're running their air conditioning, 761 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,560 they're cooking, they're doing laundry, et cetera. 762 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,800 That's when demand is the highest, but throughout the rest 763 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,640 of the year, demand is less than that. 764 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,360 And if you're producing a bunch of energy and there aren't 765 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:43,400 people there to buy it immediately, you're wasting a 766 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,400 ton of energy. You're unprofitable. 767 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,320 But on the other side of that, when demand is the highest, you 768 00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,320 want to be able to service that. You don't want to have rolling 769 00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,880 blackouts on the hottest or coldest days of the year. 770 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:58,840 So this mismatch between supply and demand is a constant 771 00:40:59,240 --> 00:41:01,000 question mark for energy companies. 772 00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,880 But Bitcoin mining steps in and completely fixes that because it 773 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:09,440 consumes so much power that you can have a base load, but it 774 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,240 also has the flexibility to turn off, right. 775 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:17,400 All other large power consumers are hospitals or manufacturing 776 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,680 plants or like Amazon Web data centers. 777 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,560 These types of businesses cannot turn off, Definitely not 778 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,920 hospitals you don't want. Hospitals need power. 779 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,000 If anything in the world needs power the most, it's hospitals 780 00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,680 like manufacturing plants. They can't halt production from 781 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,760 100% to 90% to 80%. It has to go to 100% to 0%. 782 00:41:35,760 --> 00:41:37,040 And they're not going to want to do that. 783 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,480 Same with Amazon, like Web services or like a Google Cloud. 784 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,040 They don't want to turn off their servers and not be able to 785 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,560 provide a product, right? But Bitcoin miners, they can 786 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,280 unplug for a little while. It's it's no harm, no foul, 787 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,280 right? And they sign these power 788 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,080 purchase agreements where they're even contractually 789 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:56,640 obligated to turn off power when demand reaches a certain point. 790 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,120 But because ASICS all consume effectively the same amount of 791 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,360 power, they don't have to turn off 100% to 0%. 792 00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:07,720 They can unplug exactly as much as needed to give back to Nerid 793 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:10,560 at any moment. But they also are there to buy 794 00:42:10,840 --> 00:42:14,840 anything that gets over produced and isn't bought by retail 795 00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,160 consumers. So this completely just distorts 796 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,280 in a good way the incentives for energy producers. 797 00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:24,240 They can produce as much as they need to, and they know Bitcoin 798 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:26,960 miners will buy all of it, but also give back when the 799 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,520 community needs. Yeah. 800 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,560 Well, and you know this is a big use case I think in Texas, 801 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:36,520 right? I don't know about other states 802 00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,120 yet, but for example here in like Western Europe like we have 803 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,600 this problem somewhat. There's not enough like capacity 804 00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:50,440 on the on the network. So to to have like more 805 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,640 companies that have like roofs with solar or more like, you 806 00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:56,680 know, wind parks and stuff like that. 807 00:42:57,400 --> 00:42:59,840 But So what do you say I think is relevant? 808 00:42:59,840 --> 00:43:02,600 How I also think about it is when you said, you know, let's 809 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,520 say you have like a solar park, right, You invested in or you 810 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,360 have like a wind turbine park, like you invested in the 811 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,280 hardware, right? The hardware is there. 812 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:14,600 You bought the ground or you lease it. 813 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,280 But like, there's all these costs and what you want is like 814 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:23,480 the full return on investment of that specific hardware, right? 815 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:25,560 Which means, for example, for a wind turbine. 816 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,160 Whenever the wind blows, you want the thing to turn, right? 817 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,800 Yeah. But sometimes you see wind 818 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,720 turbines that are are standing still and then people think 819 00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:35,400 like, well, why? Why is it standing still? 820 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:38,600 And that's exactly also why you said, like when they turn, like, 821 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,600 you cannot save the energy, right. 822 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,240 Like I once read that if you put all the batteries in Europe 823 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:45,440 together, you can save 10 seconds of energy. 824 00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:46,360 Right. So. 825 00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:49,880 So we, we are not able to save the electric energy. 826 00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,200 But when it's standing still, you're not optimizing your ROI, 827 00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,040 right? Because. 828 00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:59,520 There's no, well, maybe well cost some energy to turn it with 829 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:03,720 whatever, like there's no, there's no output for the 830 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:07,320 investment that you already made that's already done and in the 831 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,200 books, right. So what I don't understand 832 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,800 because from a business case perspective, if the thing can 833 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,840 turn whenever the wind blows and there is some demand like on the 834 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,320 grid from people, you direct all the energy to the people and if 835 00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,320 there's no demand or low demand then you, you, you put it in the 836 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,400 minors, then you have a full return. 837 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:29,920 On the investment on the hardware plus the return in 838 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:35,600 Bitcoin, So it's like a above 100% ROI, right? 839 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:38,000 And for me that makes so much sense. 840 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,120 But I don't understand why it's not, why it's not happening. 841 00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,360 You know, like the money is already spent, so why wouldn't 842 00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:50,040 you do everything in your power to get the highest return 843 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,080 possible? That's just that makes no sense. 844 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,120 You you, you hit the nail on the head. 845 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,960 There's there's zero reason to not do that. 846 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:00,840 Because, I mean, if it's a really windy day, you're 847 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,800 probably way over producing what is needed. 848 00:45:04,720 --> 00:45:07,360 So just mine Bitcoin. With the surplus like there, 849 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,280 there's no reason not to. I guess at this point it's a 850 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,920 lack of education, but that will change because the incentive is 851 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,040 just simply too powerful. Yeah, I I agree. 852 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,400 And especially with, you know all the countries that want to 853 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,480 be more green and and all those things, yeah, I love. 854 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:27,280 I love this environmental like mining angle maybe the most out 855 00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:31,080 of all the dimensions that could help people to kind of be 856 00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,800 triggered and investigate, right? 857 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:35,920 Like, I think that I don't have to tweet in front of me, but I 858 00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,120 tweeted like, last week. Like, if you're a real 859 00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:41,040 progressive, if you identify yourself as a progressive 860 00:45:41,040 --> 00:45:44,280 person, who wants to like? Improve the climate. 861 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,920 You know and hates that the banks get cheap money and fun 862 00:45:48,920 --> 00:45:52,560 shit that destroys the planet. If you are that type of person, 863 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:55,040 you have to study Bitcoin. Like if you are not studying 864 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:57,560 Bitcoin, you are not. You are really doing something 865 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,960 wrong, you know, like it's just it's it's just fake, you know 866 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,080 like just like this people that I saw at. 867 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,760 There was this video that went viral with Jerome Powell where 868 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,840 there were these protesters with the flags and they're screaming 869 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,720 like, oh, you, you do inflation or whatever. 870 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:19,600 They're screaming like stop doing that, go home study 871 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,120 Bitcoin and tell all your progressive friends, right? 872 00:46:22,120 --> 00:46:26,440 Like go go for it. Yeah, I That's the narrative 873 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:30,520 that is for sure the most appealing to left winger 874 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:33,280 progressives, right? I don't think it takes a lot of 875 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:36,720 mental gymnastics to get conservative right wing people 876 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:38,360 to see Bitcoin right. If they're already sort of 877 00:46:38,360 --> 00:46:42,120 hostile to government intervention in markets and in 878 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,920 and with high taxes, they could see Bitcoin a lot clearer. 879 00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:47,960 But for the left wing progressive types, this is 880 00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:52,560 absolutely the framework to go because it's the only thing that 881 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,080 makes solar and wind production profitable, right? 882 00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,680 All of that up until this point has been reliant upon government 883 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:03,600 subsidies, which is not. That's not the way Bitcoin 884 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:06,000 mining fixes that. Bitcoin mining actually makes 885 00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,480 these, these investments profitable and and like valid, 886 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,480 especially especially if they're already built and they're just 887 00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,160 sitting there. Like you might as well use 888 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,200 Bitcoin mining. And that that video of Jerome 889 00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:20,040 Powell was hilarious. It was it was nice to see him 890 00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,960 actually have like a human moment for once saying close the 891 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:25,120 effing door. But this dude, this dude has 892 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,280 been a robot, just like toeing the line, carefully scripting 893 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,080 every syllable that he utters from his lips so as not to move 894 00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,480 the markets too violently in One Direction or the other. 895 00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,200 And to see him have a moment like that, it's like, it's 896 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:40,360 funny. Yeah, yeah, that's great. 897 00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:47,120 And also to round that up, like about this you know progressives 898 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:51,760 and climate and and and a green energy tech like it's also 899 00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:56,520 ironically. The fact that all these projects 900 00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,720 start and they're already paid for and they are not turning is 901 00:48:00,720 --> 00:48:05,680 the symptom of the the horrible Fiat currency, right. 902 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,280 Like it is the the the perfect example of all this money is 903 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,760 spent to appease all the voters that want to be green and 904 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:17,680 climate. But we are not fully using using 905 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:20,920 them, right, Like that's just, it's a perfect malinvestment 906 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:22,200 example. Yeah, Fiat. 907 00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:24,600 Fuckery, yeah. Funny. 908 00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:25,800 Yeah. Funny. 909 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,960 I I like by now I can just laugh about it. 910 00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:32,920 Like I think it's just that's also I think what I laugh about 911 00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,360 the Bitcoin ethos. And I thought I talked about 912 00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,840 this before a lot. Like in Bitcoin it's you 913 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,600 understand you have to walk the talk. 914 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:42,000 You cannot just talk. If you just talk. 915 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,240 It's BS, right? Like you have to walk the talk 916 00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,920 or just shut up. Like that sounds maybe a bit 917 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,120 radical for some people listening, but that is what you 918 00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:55,240 see, because if you just talk. If you just put up your banner 919 00:48:55,240 --> 00:49:00,560 and you scream at some stupid meeting of Jerome Powell, like 920 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,440 there's a trillion tik toks that people see after that video and 921 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:06,880 they already forget what you did. 922 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,720 So there's no, there's no impact. 923 00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:13,880 The real impact is when you just understand what's really going 924 00:49:14,240 --> 00:49:16,600 on and then you move out of the system. 925 00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,600 That's. Facilitating that right? 926 00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,200 That was really well said. Bitcoiners do walk the walk, 927 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,840 right? You can see it verifiably on 928 00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,400 chain, for one. When we say huddle, we're 929 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,520 actually huddling a record. Percent of Bitcoin hasn't moved 930 00:49:30,720 --> 00:49:34,440 in over a year. And then a lot of other people, 931 00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:38,040 they complain about the world should be this way, politicians 932 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,560 should do, blah blah blah. They're going to protest and 933 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,000 nothing's getting changed. Bitcoiners are taking an 934 00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,600 actionable step. When you store your wealth in 935 00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,880 Bitcoin, you are voluntarily opting out of that system. 936 00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,880 You are actually doing something, yeah, about in 937 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:54,320 creating the world that you want, yeah. 938 00:49:55,720 --> 00:49:59,840 Yeah, and for the people who think, what does he mean by 939 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:01,240 that? Is that? 940 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,640 I talked two weeks ago, I talked to Jeff Booth and I asked about 941 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:06,080 the future and he said the future is now. 942 00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,840 You can move now, right? You can move the wealth that you 943 00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,680 have in a bank in an old system. You can move that to the new 944 00:50:12,680 --> 00:50:16,120 system and then it's yours, verifiably yours. 945 00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:18,640 There's no third party involved anymore, right? 946 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,360 You can do that today. And if you want to do that, and 947 00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:24,680 you want to do that with a substantial amount, your bank 948 00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,040 will call you and this should be a trigger for you. 949 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,480 To move on with it, right. That's the whole point. 950 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,280 The whole point is that they are closing the doors because they 951 00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:36,280 don't want you to move that money because for each dollar or 952 00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:40,280 euro you put in a bank, they can lend it out 10 times and put you 953 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,960 at risk, you know, like that. I don't know if I can say that 954 00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,080 any simpler, but I think that's just how it works, right? 955 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:51,120 And if you hear this and you think that doesn't really feel 956 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:54,360 OK. Well, again, you know, study 957 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:54,640 bit. Yeah. 958 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:58,240 And then and go into it. But yeah, that's a good point 959 00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,280 because you don't, you don't have to wait for some magical. 960 00:51:01,360 --> 00:51:04,040 There won't be a magical moment where the world suddenly you 961 00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:05,680 look up and it's a Bitcoin standard. 962 00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,160 Like we're on a Bitcoin standard right now. 963 00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:10,440 You and I, we both use Bitcoin as our unit of account. 964 00:51:10,720 --> 00:51:11,920 That's both where we store wealth. 965 00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,560 You don't have to wait for anyone else. 966 00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:14,760 You don't have to ask permission. 967 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,720 You can just go and do it. Your permission? 968 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:19,640 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. 969 00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,520 Another thing I wanted to talk about, like I found two articles 970 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:28,200 you wrote for Bitcoin Magazine, and one was about instilling how 971 00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,960 Bitcoin instills like cardinal virtues. 972 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,800 And I really like that because I again like, I like your 973 00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,520 philosophical approach. Like I'm really into that 974 00:51:38,920 --> 00:51:42,720 dimension of Bitcoin. Like I have some guests coming 975 00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:46,880 up. Like Eric Cason and Knutsfannom, 976 00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,680 like we're really going to like dive into that corner which 977 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:51,840 which I love and I love that you wrote about it. 978 00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:55,200 Then you discuss prudence or caution. 979 00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:59,320 And I wanted to ask you like, how does Bitcoin encourage 980 00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:07,240 prudent financial behavior? So first is you have to actually 981 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,440 do what we've talked about pretty much this whole episode 982 00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,880 is do the work, right? You have to learn Bitcoin. 983 00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:14,520 You have to understand and like there's a level of prudence to 984 00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,760 that, right? You're thinking for the future. 985 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,600 You're thinking how can I save my wealth? 986 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,680 Oh, let me learn about this Bitcoin thing. 987 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:25,200 So that's prudence level one. Second and and for those who who 988 00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:27,320 don't know what prudence means, it basically just means like 989 00:52:27,720 --> 00:52:31,520 thinking before you act like very rational decision making, 990 00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:35,280 being careful and and really not just making decisions hastily. 991 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:39,960 The 2nd way is self custody. You have to be careful. 992 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:43,520 You can't just set up a wallet on a whim not pay attention to 993 00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:46,040 where you keep your seed phrase. Just like shove it under our 994 00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,600 mattress or something. Like any all sorts of things 995 00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,280 that go wrong, people have lost their keys all the time. 996 00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,600 So with Bitcoin you really have to you have to be prudent, you 997 00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:58,360 have to know exactly what you're doing so so as to not mess it up 998 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,040 and lose everything and then just sort of rage quit. 999 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,120 And there's other ways that Bitcoin sort of instills 1000 00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,040 prudence too, right? If you leave your Bitcoin on an 1001 00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,160 exchange, that's not, you're not carefully thinking that 1002 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:12,040 decision, You're making the lazy decision, right? 1003 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,440 You're doing what is simple and easy in that moment. 1004 00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:18,080 And ultimately, you will likely get punished for that, as we've 1005 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:21,320 seen with with all sorts of exchanges and Bitcoin custodians 1006 00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:27,240 that have gone bust. Yeah. 1007 00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:31,520 And so it's interesting, right? Like I have some friends that I 1008 00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:37,360 try to orange, Bill and. One of them said, like, OK, but 1009 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:42,240 if I have a million in Bitcoin, does that mean I am the only, 1010 00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:44,400 like, caretaker of that? Like it's my sole 1011 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,920 responsibility? And then I said, yeah. 1012 00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,120 And then he was like, oh, damn, like, I don't, I don't know if I 1013 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:51,440 can do that, right? Because. 1014 00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,320 So I I think you're right. But I also think it's really 1015 00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:57,080 hard for people, you know, because a lot of these things 1016 00:53:57,640 --> 00:54:01,840 like that we talked about in the beginning, a lot is like 1017 00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,200 extended in your circle of influence, right? 1018 00:54:04,200 --> 00:54:07,880 You give. Influence away your what? 1019 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,760 How you can influence, for example, your wealth, right? 1020 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:12,720 And now it's like a radical change. 1021 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,680 It's like it's all on you. Yes, I 1000% agree with that. 1022 00:54:16,680 --> 00:54:20,360 It really forces you to take personal responsibility that 1023 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,960 that's the biggest hurdle at this point for self custody. 1024 00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:28,120 It's not that it's hard, it's not hard to keep track of a list 1025 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,720 of words, but it's all on your shoulders. 1026 00:54:30,720 --> 00:54:32,680 If you mess something up, you send Bitcoin to the wrong 1027 00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,880 address, you lose your keys, you get got by a scammer on Telegram 1028 00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,560 and send them some Bitcoin. Like there's no unwinding, 1029 00:54:40,680 --> 00:54:43,480 there's no handouts to make things better. 1030 00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:45,480 It is. It's a double edged sword, 1031 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:47,960 right? You have this ultimate personal 1032 00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,520 freedom from the tyranny of the banking system. 1033 00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:53,840 But with that freedom comes the ultimate level of personal 1034 00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,600 responsibility that is required to make this work. 1035 00:54:58,600 --> 00:54:59,880 Yeah. Yeah. 1036 00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:04,640 It's the real application of an integration, I'd say, of the 1037 00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:08,280 nobody is coming to save you. Yeah, meme. 1038 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,800 Almost right. Like it's it's it's really like 1039 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,200 that. But I think, I think, yeah, this 1040 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,920 is one of the hardest things for people that that you also have 1041 00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:21,040 to understand, like what are actually all the things where I 1042 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:25,800 put the responsibility outside of myself, right where I gave a 1043 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:31,560 third party the responsibility. And therefore also the influence 1044 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:37,320 over, you know what, whatever was in my own. 1045 00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:41,000 How do you say that, like autonomy before. 1046 00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:43,000 Yeah. So, yeah, I think, I think 1047 00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,320 that's the that's the hardest. Yeah. 1048 00:55:45,320 --> 00:55:47,640 I think it goes back to the type of people were talking about 1049 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,240 earlier that just they don't take action, right. 1050 00:55:50,240 --> 00:55:53,200 And they just want to complain. Part of, you know, outsourcing 1051 00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,880 responsibility, whether it's, you know, financial management 1052 00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:02,800 or like custody or just any sort of scenario in which you can put 1053 00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,760 the responsibility on someone else's shoulder. 1054 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:07,720 It gives people an excuse when something goes wrong. 1055 00:56:07,720 --> 00:56:09,440 It's like, oh, well, that guy messed it up. 1056 00:56:09,440 --> 00:56:12,160 It was his responsibility. Instead of like, hey, let's like 1057 00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:13,560 take a little bit of ownership here. 1058 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,320 You could have done that yourself, right? 1059 00:56:15,520 --> 00:56:19,600 You could have, you know, instead of having a portfolio, 1060 00:56:19,600 --> 00:56:23,400 manage your wealth and and trade stocks and they get burned like 1061 00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,680 learn markets yourself, trade yourself. 1062 00:56:25,680 --> 00:56:28,320 Like buy Bitcoin, study Bitcoin. Right. 1063 00:56:29,080 --> 00:56:32,920 So being able to outsource responsibility and deflect blame 1064 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:35,480 is something you we should all. Avoid. 1065 00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:39,200 Yeah, well, it's one of the other things you talk about. 1066 00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,200 You know, when you talk about these cardinal values because 1067 00:56:42,200 --> 00:56:45,240 you also said or you suggested that Bitcoin promotes 1068 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,440 fortitudes. How does that tie into? 1069 00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,640 So fortitude is basically a synonym for courage. 1070 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,560 And maybe I wrote this a year ago, I don't know if necessarily 1071 00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:02,040 I still agree with it because we have seen Bitcoin really become 1072 00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,560 adopted by institutions. We've seen a complete 180. 1073 00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,680 It's being embraced by BlackRock, like the biggest 1074 00:57:08,760 --> 00:57:11,800 financial asset manager in the world. 1075 00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:15,200 But at the time, you know, FTX had just collapsed. 1076 00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:16,800 There was a lot of uncertainty, right? 1077 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,800 You know, Bitcoiners were not, are not, we're not being treated 1078 00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:23,440 in the right way. And so I think it does take a 1079 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:26,400 certain level of courage to be a part of this movement, 1080 00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,680 especially publicly, right? You and I are both using our 1081 00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:32,400 name and where our faces are shown like people with the 1082 00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,800 Internet, people can figure out everything about us just by our 1083 00:57:34,800 --> 00:57:37,000 name and our faces. And so there's a level of 1084 00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,480 courage with that. And because people, $5 wrench 1085 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:44,320 attacks are a legitimate thing. And so we're taking a risk 1086 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,440 because we want to share the word about Bitcoin, want to 1087 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:49,400 educate others. And then there's the level of 1088 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:54,640 like nation state risk, right? We, we are vocally going against 1089 00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,360 the Fiat monetary system that has run this country for 100 1090 00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,240 years. I guess we're in different 1091 00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:01,720 countries. But you know, the Federal 1092 00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,200 Reserve has run run the world since 1913. 1093 00:58:04,960 --> 00:58:06,520 They're not going to go down without a fight. 1094 00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:10,840 And we're basically openly like battling against that, trying to 1095 00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,240 usurp their power. And I think that takes a little 1096 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,760 level of courage, right? If we're wrong and Bitcoin 1097 00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:19,440 fails, like you know, who knows? We might be in in a bad 1098 00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,520 position, right? I think in this article I 1099 00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:23,920 compared Bitcoiners to the founding fathers. 1100 00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:27,680 If the founding fathers of America lost the war, they would 1101 00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:29,520 have been hung, they would have all been killed. 1102 00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:33,040 That took a level of fortitude and I think Bitcoin is is 1103 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:36,320 similar in that regard. Maybe we won't knock on wood if 1104 00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:37,520 we're wrong, we're not going to be hung. 1105 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:42,360 But we are exposing ourselves to to a certain level of of risk by 1106 00:58:42,600 --> 00:58:46,120 by being so vocal and and attaching our names and likeness 1107 00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:49,840 specifically to it. Yeah, and so. 1108 00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:56,000 How do you think that talking about this or sharing, you know 1109 00:58:56,000 --> 00:59:00,480 also about this virtues? How how do you think Bitcoin can 1110 00:59:00,680 --> 00:59:06,360 can like bridge the gap between, you know, the the whole? 1111 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,320 How do you say like you know, left and right, thinking all the 1112 00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,760 like binary thinking the for and against, like the the difference 1113 00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:18,960 in political ideologies? How do you think Bitcoin can? 1114 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,880 Help that become better and then, well, especially for for 1115 00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:29,000 our generations, right? Yeah, I think it does how it 1116 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:31,800 does. I'm not entirely sure if I had 1117 00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:37,160 to summarize what I think it is. I think a lot of the problems 1118 00:59:37,560 --> 00:59:40,600 come from the Fiat monetary system being broken. 1119 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,200 But the diagnosis, the right makes a certain diagnosis. 1120 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:45,720 Oh no, this is the source of the problem. 1121 00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:49,480 And the left makes you know now this thing is the problem where 1122 00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:53,360 with Bitcoin then we both realized Oh no, that this is the 1123 00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,840 problem. And I'm glad you brought this up 1124 00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,360 because as a a friend of mine that I, I interact with on 1125 00:59:59,360 --> 01:00:03,320 Twitter and we met up at the Pacific Bitcoin Conference and 1126 01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:07,000 this guy he's like a he's a California Democrat liberal 1127 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,520 basically. And I'm from the South, like 1128 01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:14,120 fairly conservative right wing, and because we both see Bitcoin. 1129 01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:17,840 We talked for like 2 hours and did not disagree on a single 1130 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,680 thing and it's like that just blows my mind. 1131 01:00:20,680 --> 01:00:22,520 We come from completely different backgrounds. 1132 01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:25,360 We fundamentally you would think we would see the world an 1133 01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:28,320 entirely different way, but we were aligned on literally 1134 01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,160 everything we could not find something we disagree with. 1135 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,360 And all of that's centered around Bitcoin, right? 1136 01:00:33,480 --> 01:00:37,000 Once you realize that the money is broken, you don't get these. 1137 01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:40,720 False diagnosis is of what's causing problems in society, and 1138 01:00:40,720 --> 01:00:42,880 then you can pretty much align from there. 1139 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:47,960 Yeah, I love that you say that. It makes me think. 1140 01:00:47,960 --> 01:00:52,240 Also I I think I never met a bitcoiner that I didn't like. 1141 01:00:52,920 --> 01:00:58,640 Yeah, you know, like it's it's you have a certain, a certain 1142 01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:02,720 connection. But where I think, I think now 1143 01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:05,400 that I've quickly think of it, I think, I think it's a few 1144 01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,840 things. It's the do the work thing like 1145 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,440 the walk the talk thing, right? Like. 1146 01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,000 I know that you had to do a lot of work before you understood 1147 01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:15,240 this, right? Yeah. 1148 01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:18,440 I think you and I are still trying to understand more of it 1149 01:01:18,440 --> 01:01:22,840 every day, right. So that shows that you have 1150 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:28,960 like, an open mind. You try to see what you don't 1151 01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,240 know, right. I saw this quote last week. 1152 01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:38,480 I don't know. It's kind of like it was about 1153 01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,560 enlightenment, you know? Or like the path to 1154 01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,720 enlightenment is accepting or knowing that you don't know 1155 01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:45,960 everything. Something like that, you know? 1156 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:50,440 And when you know that you don't know everything, that could be 1157 01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:53,640 scary in the beginning, right? Like, I don't know shit. 1158 01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,920 And there's a lot going on here, so that could be scary. 1159 01:01:57,920 --> 01:02:03,640 But once you just accept it, then like all these doors open. 1160 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:10,520 Because you know, you know that in the and this has how I tied 1161 01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:12,360 back to Bitcoin. Like in the human world, like 1162 01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:18,120 you said, if something that humans use is potentially 1163 01:02:18,120 --> 01:02:22,520 corruptible, it will be corrupted by the humans, right? 1164 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:27,880 Like we cannot trust, we cannot trust ourselves, even though we 1165 01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:30,960 try to. Enlighten ourselves more. 1166 01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:34,280 Learn more, whatever you adhere to, right? 1167 01:02:34,960 --> 01:02:40,480 But whenever a system or things that people can use is open to 1168 01:02:40,480 --> 01:02:42,600 be corrupted, it will be corrupted, right? 1169 01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,080 Like I, I, I just think that's true. 1170 01:02:45,520 --> 01:02:51,000 So that's why we need, for the most important technology that 1171 01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,920 we need, you know, the exchange of value between people and 1172 01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:57,640 especially now that we can do it like all around the world at any 1173 01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,560 time of the day. With whoever, we need something 1174 01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:05,880 that is helping us to not corrupt it, right? 1175 01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,280 It should be a protocol, just like a thing that exists that we 1176 01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:14,120 cannot mess with, that forces us to comply with its rules instead 1177 01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:20,720 of the other way around. And yeah, I started somewhere 1178 01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,680 with this thought. I'm thinking where I went, but I 1179 01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,240 think, I think, like, for me that's kind of like my quick 1180 01:03:25,240 --> 01:03:26,760 reflection there. Like it's. 1181 01:03:27,200 --> 01:03:30,160 I know that you did the work to understand that and I know that 1182 01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:34,160 you also accepted something that I also accepted which was hard 1183 01:03:34,160 --> 01:03:36,360 to accept or to acknowledge, right. 1184 01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:39,520 And I think it's it's as simple as that. 1185 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,480 Maybe like we know we both are doing the work or something like 1186 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,400 that and that that is already enough. 1187 01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:49,040 Like it shows the type of person that you are even though that 1188 01:03:49,040 --> 01:03:51,040 we. Now, first meet, right? 1189 01:03:51,040 --> 01:03:54,160 Yeah, it's proof of work. Just like how the nodes know the 1190 01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,480 miners did the work because they can run the knots themselves. 1191 01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:00,200 That I know you've done the work. 1192 01:04:00,240 --> 01:04:05,120 And the humility aspect is there too, right? 1193 01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:07,040 You have. We all took. 1194 01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:09,040 Well, it's the node string. You did the work. 1195 01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:12,320 Well, it's like you did work. I did work. 1196 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:15,400 That's why I know and I agree, that we can work together, you 1197 01:04:15,480 --> 01:04:17,280 know, something like that. Exactly. 1198 01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:22,320 And you brought up a a good point there about what was it? 1199 01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,000 I I I lost my train of thought there anyways. 1200 01:04:25,000 --> 01:04:28,000 But yeah, it it really is proof of work. 1201 01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,240 Sorry. Yeah. 1202 01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,880 So why do you, why do you think of like a philosophical 1203 01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,480 approach? Is is important to understand 1204 01:04:37,680 --> 01:04:38,760 bitcoins. Yeah. 1205 01:04:38,880 --> 01:04:39,280 Yeah. OK. 1206 01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,840 I just remember I thought by the way it was the the humans 1207 01:04:41,840 --> 01:04:45,080 corrupt every institution I think yeah that's spot on right. 1208 01:04:45,080 --> 01:04:48,200 Because fundamentally I believe we all are like we're sinful in 1209 01:04:48,200 --> 01:04:51,320 our nature and so humans overtime they'll they'll corrupt 1210 01:04:51,320 --> 01:04:54,760 an institution which is why Bitcoin is so magnificent 1211 01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,320 because it's not immune to to human corruption. 1212 01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:01,600 Sorry, what was your question again I I had just get that that 1213 01:05:01,600 --> 01:05:02,880 one out there. No, that's great. 1214 01:05:02,880 --> 01:05:04,280 I love. I love that you remembered that. 1215 01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:05,560 Yeah. But I think, like that's 1216 01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:09,160 already, that's not what you just repeated. 1217 01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:14,360 Like that is not a virtue thing. It's not like you would want to 1218 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:18,440 not want to improve something or make something better or do it 1219 01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,920 for the children or what. It's just a fact that even 1220 01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:27,080 though you think you would never do something like that, right? 1221 01:05:27,600 --> 01:05:28,920 There's always people that would. 1222 01:05:29,040 --> 01:05:31,520 And that's the. That's the point and and it's 1223 01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:36,360 not that they are necessarily bad people like they just, I 1224 01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:38,800 don't know. Like we don't you don't even 1225 01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,480 have to explain it. Just when you accept that that 1226 01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,520 will always happen, that will already give you, I think a lot 1227 01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:50,080 of new found freedom in your thinking to explore, well 1228 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,680 something like bit Bitcoin or you know, other things that you 1229 01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,280 want to learn about that are perhaps different than what you, 1230 01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:01,360 you know learned before and even systems that are built. 1231 01:06:01,520 --> 01:06:03,160 My question was, yeah, yeah, yeah. 1232 01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,840 Even systems that are built to try to withstand that that 1233 01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:09,400 nature of humans getting corrupted like the US 1234 01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:11,880 Constitution and the US federal government set up with all these 1235 01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,880 checks and balances, right. The such and such branch can't 1236 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:18,040 do anything without the other branch or you know these are the 1237 01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:20,800 rights that can't be infringed overtime. 1238 01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,680 We've seen all the rights in the Constitution pretty much get get 1239 01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,320 trampled on. So no matter how intricate the 1240 01:06:26,320 --> 01:06:30,120 system is, over time, you know it could be made with the best 1241 01:06:30,120 --> 01:06:33,080 of intentions, but over time, eventually someone is going to 1242 01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:35,520 get in there that that breaks that system. 1243 01:06:39,360 --> 01:06:42,240 Yeah, there's a good point, like, about the Constitution, 1244 01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:43,280 right? Like, obviously I'm not an 1245 01:06:43,280 --> 01:06:46,160 American, but sometimes I see things where I think like, oh, 1246 01:06:46,160 --> 01:06:49,800 wow, like the the, the legal system in the US works really 1247 01:06:49,800 --> 01:06:51,320 great. Like, I don't really have an 1248 01:06:51,320 --> 01:06:53,240 example, but sometimes I see something where I think like, 1249 01:06:53,680 --> 01:06:55,760 wow, that's actually so American. 1250 01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:58,160 Right. Like like how how you follow the 1251 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,400 like the legal system. And I don't like again I don't 1252 01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:02,800 have an example but sometimes I see that. 1253 01:07:02,800 --> 01:07:04,360 Right. But what you just said like 1254 01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:09,920 about the corruptible thing, it's not that the constitutional 1255 01:07:09,920 --> 01:07:16,840 laws and and you know legal system that it's being made 1256 01:07:16,840 --> 01:07:20,040 corruptible on purpose that's not what that means. 1257 01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:24,800 It means that through other ways, people can kind of like. 1258 01:07:26,280 --> 01:07:29,600 How do you say that? Like make certain legal stuff 1259 01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:31,440 abstract. They can abstract and abstract 1260 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:34,560 and then they have like a little like some lawyer has some trick 1261 01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:36,360 here and a trick there and that's how. 1262 01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:40,600 They corrupt it, right? It's not that the base rules are 1263 01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,800 changed. It's kind of like playing a a a 1264 01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:50,120 game with endless. Kind of ways to to to trick like 1265 01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,040 an original rule or law. I don't know if I explained it 1266 01:07:53,040 --> 01:07:56,040 correctly but what I like about Bitcoin as a comparison to that 1267 01:07:57,360 --> 01:08:01,360 this is the set of rules period. You know like there is no 1268 01:08:01,800 --> 01:08:05,760 there's no multiple interpretation of the rules. 1269 01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,600 We cannot we cannot play a game about the interpretation of the 1270 01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,080 rules. We it's the protocol has rules 1271 01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,080 you follow the rules or not like it's it's yes or no. 1272 01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:22,520 I think that's what the the first thing is what opens up the 1273 01:08:22,520 --> 01:08:24,760 corruptibility. If you have all these ways of 1274 01:08:24,760 --> 01:08:28,560 interpreting and explaining and, you know, that's I think it's 1275 01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,120 less harsh than saying it's on purpose. 1276 01:08:31,439 --> 01:08:34,279 Yeah, you know, I agree. Because if you think about the 1277 01:08:34,279 --> 01:08:37,880 Constitution as like written code and then the humans or the 1278 01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:41,680 computers that run that code, there's it could be exploited in 1279 01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,120 different ways. But Bitcoin is code. 1280 01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:48,160 But the computers that run the Bitcoin code, they do it exactly 1281 01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:50,439 as it says. And there's no room for humans 1282 01:08:50,439 --> 01:08:54,439 to sort of slip in their their interpretation code just runs. 1283 01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,800 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. 1284 01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:01,359 So my question was why? Why do you think a philosophical 1285 01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:04,720 approach is important to understanding bitcoins impact? 1286 01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,279 I think it helps make it digestible. 1287 01:09:09,760 --> 01:09:13,439 Really big ideas, you need metaphors, you need analogies, 1288 01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:17,560 you need parables and stories. Humans are very story driven 1289 01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:19,520 people. We understand stories and 1290 01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:24,319 feelings and in ideas more than we understand really technical 1291 01:09:24,319 --> 01:09:27,520 topics. So the philosophical approach to 1292 01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:32,160 Bitcoin I think fills a huge niche and it can get kind of 1293 01:09:32,160 --> 01:09:35,439 overblown sometimes. There's like, the Think Boy meme 1294 01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:38,680 we definitely like. None of this exists without the 1295 01:09:38,680 --> 01:09:42,720 hardcore coders and the programmers and the people in 1296 01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:46,520 the weeds, technically. But to in order for Bitcoin to 1297 01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:51,120 be digested by the masses, you have to break it down into to 1298 01:09:51,200 --> 01:09:52,720 things that people can understand. 1299 01:09:53,080 --> 01:09:57,480 Even the white paper as like simple as as it is, it's still 1300 01:09:57,480 --> 01:10:00,440 going to be above the heads of a lot of people. 1301 01:10:00,440 --> 01:10:03,720 Like, that's not, if you've never consumed any Bitcoin 1302 01:10:03,720 --> 01:10:06,520 content and you tried to read the white paper, you're going to 1303 01:10:06,520 --> 01:10:08,800 have a difficult time understanding how it works. 1304 01:10:08,800 --> 01:10:14,480 But you know, videos and like animations and comparisons and, 1305 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,960 you know, comparing Bitcoin to monopoly, right? 1306 01:10:17,960 --> 01:10:20,960 That's that's an analogy I've heard that makes people just 1307 01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:22,680 sort of understand how a blockchain works, how a 1308 01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,680 decentralized Ledger works. So yeah, this this philosophical 1309 01:10:26,680 --> 01:10:30,720 approach I think is, is huge and there's different spectrums to 1310 01:10:30,720 --> 01:10:32,760 it, right? You know, Robert Breedlove goes 1311 01:10:32,800 --> 01:10:35,760 very deep his his ideas. You know, if you ever listen to 1312 01:10:35,760 --> 01:10:38,480 the the Breedlove Sailor series, which I'm sure you've listened 1313 01:10:38,480 --> 01:10:40,840 to that, that one's like level 10, right? 1314 01:10:41,120 --> 01:10:46,320 And maybe I need to be more like a Level 3 or 4 Philip Bitcoin 1315 01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:49,280 philosopher or whatever. So it just makes everything more 1316 01:10:49,280 --> 01:10:54,040 understandable for people. Yeah, yeah, I agree. 1317 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,000 Yeah, I think it's definitely needed. 1318 01:10:56,000 --> 01:11:00,360 Like I come from a world of. Like startups and Internet 1319 01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:05,600 companies and I always try to adhere to, you know, like it. 1320 01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,560 You can build anything you want. But if people don't understand 1321 01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:15,280 why they shoot or coot or can use it, then yeah, it's futile 1322 01:11:15,280 --> 01:11:20,960 what you build, right? So you have to tell the story in 1323 01:11:20,960 --> 01:11:24,600 a way that appeals to the person you're telling the story to, 1324 01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:26,480 right? And you also have to figure out, 1325 01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:30,480 you know, what levels. There are in that story, as you 1326 01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:32,760 mentioned, like a Robert Breedlove and Michael Saylor. 1327 01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:37,680 Yeah, that's like, that's like a that's like a big brain thing, 1328 01:11:37,680 --> 01:11:40,000 right? Same as listening to Jason Lowry 1329 01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:44,520 and software or something that Adam Back talks about like 1330 01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:47,480 technical stuff. Like sometimes I start a Bitcoin 1331 01:11:47,480 --> 01:11:50,600 podcast and like halfway I just tune out because I think like 1332 01:11:50,600 --> 01:11:54,560 this is this is a bit above my current level, so. 1333 01:11:55,240 --> 01:11:58,400 You know, I I go, I dial it back a little bit. 1334 01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,800 But yeah, I think that's a great that's a great answer. 1335 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:06,280 And also yeah, I think part of why I'm making a podcast. 1336 01:12:06,280 --> 01:12:08,880 I think also part why you're making podcast just trying to 1337 01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:13,800 share yeah these different stories in in in different ways 1338 01:12:14,040 --> 01:12:17,560 and there's no one of like Bitcoin is one of one right. 1339 01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,560 There's no apples to apples comparison to make. 1340 01:12:20,560 --> 01:12:23,320 So you have to draw from all sorts of different like 1341 01:12:23,680 --> 01:12:26,840 inspirations in order to make this seemingly understandable. 1342 01:12:26,840 --> 01:12:29,600 Because it's it's one of one, it's the first Bitcoin. 1343 01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:33,040 It's not the, you know, it's not digital gold. 1344 01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,240 It's not whatever analogy people want to use. 1345 01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,480 It's Bitcoin. It's something brand new. 1346 01:12:37,480 --> 01:12:41,040 So the only way to really understand it is to try to draw 1347 01:12:41,040 --> 01:12:44,960 from a bunch of different ideas. Yeah. 1348 01:12:45,640 --> 01:12:47,400 Yeah. I I fully agree. 1349 01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:50,200 All right. Last question, and I ask 1350 01:12:50,200 --> 01:12:53,680 everyone the same question, What's a core belief that you 1351 01:12:53,680 --> 01:12:58,680 will never let go? I think Jesus Christ died on the 1352 01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:01,960 cross for all of us, that fun, and we're all sinners and we're 1353 01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:04,280 all broken people. And I think fundamentally that's 1354 01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:06,760 the most important thing to me and everything else comes 1355 01:13:06,760 --> 01:13:11,040 secondary to that. But that being said, there are 1356 01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:15,480 things we could do on this earth that can make us have a better 1357 01:13:15,480 --> 01:13:17,800 experience here, right? Even though this lifetime is 1358 01:13:17,800 --> 01:13:19,320 temporary, we're all going to pass away. 1359 01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:21,600 There's things we could do to make it better. 1360 01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:23,840 And I think some of those are, you know, family, right? 1361 01:13:23,960 --> 01:13:28,120 We all need to, to get married, have a lot of kids and spend 1362 01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:30,440 time with each other and build communities. 1363 01:13:30,720 --> 01:13:34,680 And I think another core belief is government should stay out of 1364 01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:36,640 our lives, right? That's just other people telling 1365 01:13:36,640 --> 01:13:38,760 you what to do. The state needs to stay out of 1366 01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:41,640 people's lives and specifically out of people's money, right. 1367 01:13:41,800 --> 01:13:43,000 And that's where Bitcoin comes in. 1368 01:13:43,320 --> 01:13:48,560 It's it's my third core belief there is Bitcoin is the most 1369 01:13:48,600 --> 01:13:51,000 actionable path to a better future. 1370 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:54,200 Nothing else, everything else can be corrupted by humans 1371 01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,080 except for Bitcoin. It's it's magnificent. 1372 01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:59,760 And I guess that's that's where I'll leave it. 1373 01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:06,360 Awesome man, thanks for sharing. Where can people follow you 1374 01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:09,600 online? Yeah, so you can follow me on 1375 01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:10,920 Twitter. That's pretty much the only 1376 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:13,120 platform. I'm on Mitchell Hoddle. 1377 01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:16,080 I also do my own podcast on YouTube. 1378 01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,880 You can go to Blockware on YouTube and you'll find my 1379 01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:20,440 podcast and some other videos that I make. 1380 01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:24,520 Awesome. And thanks so much for coming 1381 01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:26,680 on. And yeah, let's stay in touch 1382 01:14:27,120 --> 01:14:28,920 and wish you all the best. Yeah. 1383 01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:31,520 Thank you for having me, Graham. Cheers. 1384 01:14:32,280 --> 01:14:34,960 I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, it would be amazing 1385 01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,760 if you could rate, review and subscribe on the podcast 1386 01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,720 platform of your choice. It will help us educate more 1387 01:14:40,720 --> 01:14:42,800 millennials on the importance of Bitcoin. 1388 01:14:43,080 --> 01:14:44,840 You can follow and connect with me on Twitter. 1389 01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:49,320 I'm Brom K that's at Bramk. And if you are or know someone 1390 01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:51,400 who has an interesting perspective on Bitcoin that's 1391 01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:54,360 worth sharing, hit me up. I read and reply to every single 1392 01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:56,280 message. I appreciate your support and 1393 01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:57,920 hope you'll be here for the next episode. 1394 01:14:58,240 --> 01:14:59,520 Thanks for listening. Bye.