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All right. 
Hey there. 

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This is from Constant and you're
listening to Bitcoin for 

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Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 

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most relevant technology that 
you, my fellow millennials, 

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should understand and adopt. 
In this episode, I'm joined by 

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Jeff Booth. 
He's an entrepreneur and thought

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leader who's lived at the 
forefront of technology change 

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for 20 years. 
Currently a general partner at 

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Eco Death Capital, Bitcoin only 
venture fund, he's known for his

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insights on technology, 
economics and the future of 

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deflation. 
In his book The Price of 

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Tomorrow, he argues that 
advancing technologies will 

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inherently lead to deflation and
that society should embrace 

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rather than resist this trend. 
When I started this podcast, 

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Jeff, I had a list of 50 people 
that I was dying to talk to and 

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you were in my top five. 
So I'm super excited that in 

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episode 10 you're already here, 
man. 

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So welcome. 
Thanks. 

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Well, thanks for having me, 
Bram. 

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Pleasure. 
Thanks. 

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Yeah, I am. 
I wanted to start with a 

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question. 
I actually had a had a 

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conversation again today where 
this term theft came up. 

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And in previous episodes, you 
know, when this conversation was

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about Bitcoin and economics, 
etcetera. 

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And in previous episodes I've 
talked about how difficult it is

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when like you talk to a newcomer
to Bitcoin and you talk about 

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the inflation and debasement and
that they are in essence theft. 

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And in my experience, like, 
people find that they're really 

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like hard, hard words, and 
sometimes they chew out, maybe 

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because it's so confrontational 
or something. 

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But I also have heard you use 
the word theft a lot. 

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Can you explain, like, why 
inflation and debasement are 

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actually theft? 
I think you're the person that 

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can explain this most 
rationally, probably. 

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Yeah, I think it and and by the 
way I understand why people 

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would not want to see it that 
way and or if it it challenges 

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some of their beliefs and then 
they want to push back. 

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So I totally understand and have
empathy for people sitting 

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inside a system. 
But, but when you realize that 

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the free market is deflationary,
right? 

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And that's not a guess, like 
prices fall to the marginal cost

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of production. 
We have exponentially rising 

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productivity because of 
technology. 

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And by the way, a couple of 
insights to that. 

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If you measured that 
productivity through the entire 

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manipulated system, you wouldn't
see as much productivity. 

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But if you've measured 
productivity, it where what's 

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happening? 
You have exponential technology.

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Yeah this driving product is 
that. 

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Also, sorry to drop, but they 
said also I saw a great chart on

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Twitter of someone who had the 
price of the NASDAQ in dollars 

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that goes up obviously, but 
against M2 like in real value, 

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it actually goes down and it's 
under the value of the tech in 

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2000, which arguably we now have
better technology, right, but 

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it's worth less. 
This This is why it's so hard to

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see, because people are 
measuring through a system with 

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the error code in it. 
So, So what what you have to do 

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is you have to use first 
principles to understand what 

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would happen if there was no 
error code, if there was no 

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theft or debasement or anything 
else. 

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So so why I find it easier just 
to talk about technology in that

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way is is you can have some 
first principle discussions. 

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You can say do prices fall to 
the marginal cost of production 

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over time? 
And answer is yes, like no 

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matter what over a long enough 
time horizon. 

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Prices fall to the marginal cost
of production. 

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Then you can ask what is the 
marginal cost of production of a

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line of code? 
And then you can ask what is the

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marginal cost of production of 
for lines of code written by 

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other lines of code. 
And you can see where we're 

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going and why technology drives 
and. 

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And if if number one is true and
#2 is true, then that means if 

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you had a. 
An honest Ledger or an honest 

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monetary sources system that 
didn't debase currencies that 

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didn't change the rules didn't 
print more currency units. 

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Then prices would fall every 
year as the AS and society would

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live on top of that, prices 
falling every year. 

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Some, some places prices would 
fall faster some places and it 

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would run at the rate of 
technology in the free market 

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and so every year based on just 
that being true. 

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You would probably gain people 
would have to work 5% less get 

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in or get get 5% more each year 
just by staying centered so 

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they're they're about everyone 
on the planet would would 

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benefit you'd get be getting 
richer but that's not the system

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we live in right so so so that's
that's that's a system that 

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would be true in a system that 
couldn't be manipulated. 

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And the system, but this is 
important because you have to 

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stop this. 
So that's true. 

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And what I'm about to say is 
true if you allowed a credit 

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based system to collapse. 
So if you let a credit based 

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system prices fall, then the 
debt become in real terms, you 

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can't pay back immediately and 
the whole thing keeps falling. 

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So it keeps falling. 
So we have to explore that 

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system too. 
And that system that we live in,

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or where we price most things 
from today has about $400 

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trillion of insolvent debt. 
So the debts already insolvent, 

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right? 
If you tried to pay back the 

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$400 trillion at $1.00 a second,
it would take 12,683,000 years 

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to pay back. 
But it's worse than that 

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because. 
Because that's assuming you 

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could pay it back. 
And you have to ask yourself, 

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where are the taxes to pay back 
the debt from your calculator 

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app that you use every day now, 
right? 

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It's free. 
The point is the technology is 

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driving these things to free and
that you create the abundance 

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based on that technology. 
So what's happening is the 

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Ledger is being manipulated at a
greater and greater rate. 

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Theft and it's transferring that
wealth from from people who 

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because inflation is wage 
deflation and and it's 

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transferring that wealth from 
people who have assets to people

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or from people who don't have 
assets. 

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So their wages are going down in
real terms because to try to pay

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back the debts that's already 
insolvent and it's transferring 

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it to people who will hold 
assets or or government. 

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To be able to do that process 
and it is theft because you 

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don't have a vote in it, you 
don't. 

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So both these things are true, 
right? 

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So we say we live in A and so 
one system. 

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What it would look like under an
honest system and what it does 

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look like under the system that 
we wait, do we drive all of our 

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decisions by. 
The problem is inside that 

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system that we live in and we 
price everything by, we don't 

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see. 
How great an impact that is on 

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our lives. 
We don't. 

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So we just trust all of these 
institutions. 

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It's like it always used to be. 
And so these things are true. 

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At the same time, what's 
happening with Bitcoin is if 

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you're if you're measuring, if 
you're measuring Bitcoin in 

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price from the manipulated 
system, then you're actually 

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thinking about trading Bitcoin. 
What's actually happening is we 

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have two different worlds 
emerging. 

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One that's pricing what I just 
explained that can't be fucked 

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with. 
And so if you're measuring in 

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Bitcoin, prices will fall for 
fall into for you forever. 

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And if you're pricing in the 
existing system, prices will 

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rise forever. 
Is it then also that because we 

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changed the technology of money 
with with Bitcoin to a protocol 

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to two lines of code, don't want
to say it's free, but you know 

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it also goes down to marginal? 
Cost of product, marginal cost 

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of production. 
But actually that's true right 

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now. 
You can see hash rate going up. 

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Yeah, right. 
That's. 

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Yeah. 
So instead of also the value of 

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the of the old money becoming 
less and less and less, it's the

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new money that's just going up 
forever then. 

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So I'd like to look at the other
way. 

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Because because if you think 
it's going up forever, you're 

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measuring it from the value in 
the old system, right. 

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And that's what most people do. 
And and so if you do that in 

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Argentina today, bitcoins 
hitting all time records now are

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the people in Argentina 
necessarily richer because their

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money's losing value at that 
rate and and in it. 

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So if you measure in the 
debasing currency. 

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You're automatically defaulting 
to measure your world in the 

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broken in on the broken Ledger. 
And if you're measuring in the 

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in in, in this thing that can't 
be manipulated, you're 

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automatically measuring your 
world and in economic law that 

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prices fall to the marginal cost
of production over time. 

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And how do we then take a step 
to an abundant future? 

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Like, if this is the cause, what
will it result in? 

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Like what is Why will the future
then be abundant? 

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So be because because the 
incentives are exactly opposite 

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from the existing system and 
most people carry their baggage 

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from just like you're doing 
right now and pricing right. 

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The most people carry their 
baggage from the old system on 

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how it looks under misaligned 
incentives to the new system on 

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how it doesn't, how it doesn't. 
And they're totally different 

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systems that work almost 180 
from each other. 

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One concentrates wealth and very
few hands in power and 

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eventually eventually destroys 
destroys what you believe your 

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democracy is because money is 
super ordinate to laws. 

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If it wasn't then, then the 
places with the most broken 

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money in the world would have 
the best laws protecting their 

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citizens citizens. 
Why doesn't it look like that? 

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So you can see what I'm saying 
is true, right? 

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And now you just have to ask how
how fast are we destroying our 

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money here? 
And you can see how fast laws 

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will breakdown and division of 
society will breakdown as a 

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result. 
And all of these things are 

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consequences of broken money 
that get worse and worse. 

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So you can ask yourself, where 
are you on that lever? 

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You don't vote in your in your 
country. 

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For how much money is 
manipulated? 

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Yeah, correct. 
And as that becomes a greater 

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and greater stealth tax or 
repressive tax that hurts some 

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people in favor of others, then 
then it becomes more and more of

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the the amount of revenue they 
cover in immense making that's 

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based on theft and as it becomes
more and more based on. 

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So you don't have a vote in in 
one of the most important 

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drivers of wealth in your life. 
So how could you say that you 

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actually live in a democracy if 
you don't have a vote in one of 

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the most important drivers? 
And you can see by that 

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construct why all over the world
individual rights and freedoms 

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are going down because they have
to go down overtime to support 

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theft. 
That has to grow exponentially. 

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To be able to to pay debt that 
is already insolvent. 

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So and that leads to a control 
function out of governments and 

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so all of these things that we 
see all over the world and why 

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it's really why people get 
trapped in them from the 

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existing system is is they make 
them stronger through their 

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actions. 
They think that there's a solve 

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by dividing society, right. 
So how would you get elected and

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how would you get elected in in 
a system that look like that? 

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You would prey on a whole bunch 
of people that that said, I can 

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solve your problem. 
It's those bad people that do 

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that, that you divide society 
and it's and and you would sit 

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on top of that by by dividing 
and then when it couldn't fix it

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because it's based on broken 
money in that and you've already

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divided your society, you would 
have to create a bigger enemy 

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elsewhere. 
Right. 

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And you'd have to convince your 
society to go to war, to fight 

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for the thing that they believe 
in, to be able to create a war 

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some somewhere else. 
That's it's why these things are

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pretty natural and what we're 
having today and why the world 

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gets pretty frightening from the
system that's decaying. 

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And so how do you solve that? 
You just impose. 

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Bitcoin imposes A discipline. 
It's a it's becoming a 

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peer-to-peer Internet backed by 
energy. 

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Yeah. 
That and you impose that 

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discipline and the incentives 
that that creates that that that

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have more and more people 
walking across the bridge to 

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create the new, the the new 
system. 

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We're still really early. 
This system has more power in 

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our lives, and we feed it the 
one we're at the decaying 

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system, and we feed it by 
yelling at it, by marching 

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00:13:57,330 --> 00:14:00,570
against it, by voting for it and
everything else. 

230
00:14:01,220 --> 00:14:05,140
And people don't realize that 
they could stop paying for $400 

231
00:14:05,140 --> 00:14:10,220
trillion of debt tomorrow, 
today, walk across to the new 

232
00:14:10,220 --> 00:14:13,260
system and start building onto 
that system and their energy. 

233
00:14:13,260 --> 00:14:15,380
Every single one of us. 
What you're doing with this 

234
00:14:15,380 --> 00:14:19,260
podcast might touch a bunch of 
people that then go out and 

235
00:14:19,260 --> 00:14:23,700
touch a bunch of other people 
and and what it means is the 

236
00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:25,540
future doesn't just happen to 
us. 

237
00:14:25,900 --> 00:14:30,090
We create it. 
And So what what you're doing 

238
00:14:30,090 --> 00:14:32,930
right now, what I'm doing right 
now is creating a brighter 

239
00:14:32,930 --> 00:14:37,890
future by moving to Bitcoin and 
and building on to on top of an 

240
00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:41,490
honest Ledger. 
And and as more and more people 

241
00:14:41,490 --> 00:14:45,690
do, the world just changes. 
Yeah. 

242
00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:50,530
So now, now I'm, I'm thinking to
go back to the question about 

243
00:14:50,530 --> 00:14:52,210
the theft. 
I think it's interesting, right?

244
00:14:52,210 --> 00:14:55,610
Because when you say theft or 
when I say theft, sometimes in 

245
00:14:55,610 --> 00:14:58,170
my conversation, oh, it sounds 
like my opinion, right? 

246
00:14:58,170 --> 00:15:01,050
Like a radical opinion. 
But I think how you explain it 

247
00:15:01,050 --> 00:15:06,050
is just an objective realization
and description of how it 

248
00:15:06,050 --> 00:15:10,410
currently works. 
And also it's so far away from 

249
00:15:11,690 --> 00:15:14,930
most people because it's been 
abstracted so much, right? 

250
00:15:14,930 --> 00:15:19,530
And when you put that next to 
the system of Bitcoin, where, 

251
00:15:20,130 --> 00:15:22,730
yeah, I really love the term, 
you know, in Bitcoin you follow 

252
00:15:22,730 --> 00:15:25,210
the rules and in the other 
system you follow the rulers, 

253
00:15:25,210 --> 00:15:26,970
right. 
And I think that perfectly 

254
00:15:26,970 --> 00:15:31,730
illustrates it. 
And it's a true 180 of ultimate,

255
00:15:32,170 --> 00:15:35,410
almost engineered truth. 
I always say about Bitcoin, 

256
00:15:35,410 --> 00:15:38,650
right. 
Or it's very transparent versus 

257
00:15:38,850 --> 00:15:41,810
layer on layer of of 
abstraction. 

258
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:45,650
And and therefore, also, yeah, 
just a hard understanding of 

259
00:15:46,010 --> 00:15:48,330
what am I actually participating
in. 

260
00:15:48,330 --> 00:15:52,570
So, and then when someone says 
it's theft, you know, that's 

261
00:15:52,850 --> 00:15:56,330
obviously an instant 
confrontation with, you know, 

262
00:15:56,330 --> 00:16:00,770
whatever the unknowing belief is
probably of the current system. 

263
00:16:00,930 --> 00:16:03,970
Is it. 
Why I'd like to walk through 

264
00:16:05,570 --> 00:16:08,890
this from a first principles 
discussion on both, On both is 

265
00:16:08,890 --> 00:16:10,690
because both these things are 
true. 

266
00:16:11,130 --> 00:16:15,460
Like in which, So yeah. 
Your life, because of your 

267
00:16:15,460 --> 00:16:19,140
beliefs and how you see the 
world, will be true for you, 

268
00:16:19,340 --> 00:16:24,700
even if my life and my beliefs 
in the world are, are and would 

269
00:16:24,860 --> 00:16:27,300
depict a different truth for me,
right? 

270
00:16:27,860 --> 00:16:31,660
But if I tried to impose my 
belief on you by yelling at you,

271
00:16:32,940 --> 00:16:35,220
you probably wouldn't. 
The last thing you would do is 

272
00:16:35,220 --> 00:16:40,020
change and and and worse if you 
were, if you were. 

273
00:16:41,230 --> 00:16:46,190
That if you were taken from the 
most right and you were at the 

274
00:16:46,190 --> 00:16:53,390
bottom of the social economic 
ladder and and you you couldn't 

275
00:16:53,390 --> 00:16:55,790
pay your bills, you couldn't pay
food and everything else. 

276
00:16:55,790 --> 00:16:59,910
You would be more susceptible to
somebody who said I'm going to 

277
00:16:59,910 --> 00:17:03,950
solve your problem and should 
give you money, even work also. 

278
00:17:04,790 --> 00:17:08,310
But again, but but you'd be more
susceptible because you can't 

279
00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:13,880
think through first principles. 
When you're in or it's really 

280
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:17,319
hard to think about thinking in 
first principles and and what 

281
00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:19,680
I'm able to think and what we're
talking about right now. 

282
00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:24,319
When you're when you're scared 
for your life or your family's 

283
00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,359
life or you have emotion driving
you. 

284
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,920
So the thing that creates the 
fear that keeps people stuck is 

285
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,120
the same thing that gives the 
power to the system to keep them

286
00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:38,040
stuck and if somebody outside 
that system. 

287
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:42,230
Yells at them or says it's theft
from that. 

288
00:17:42,430 --> 00:17:44,750
You're not meeting them where? 
Where they are. 

289
00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:47,830
They're in a different spot. 
You might for you. 

290
00:17:47,830 --> 00:17:49,310
You might have already done the 
work. 

291
00:17:49,310 --> 00:17:51,910
You understand what this looks 
like, and it's easy to think 

292
00:17:51,910 --> 00:17:54,990
that everybody in the world has 
done that work because you have.

293
00:17:54,990 --> 00:17:57,750
And it doesn't look like that. 
Most people in the world are 

294
00:17:57,750 --> 00:18:02,470
stuck in the system, feeding it,
making it stronger because of 

295
00:18:02,470 --> 00:18:05,650
their fear. 
Yeah, this is nice. 

296
00:18:05,650 --> 00:18:07,890
Leeway into another question I 
had. 

297
00:18:07,890 --> 00:18:11,330
So your your firm is called Ego 
Death Capital. 

298
00:18:11,370 --> 00:18:14,690
I love, I love that name. 
I chose it for a reason. 

299
00:18:14,690 --> 00:18:17,530
Of course, you know, like you 
actually just said that, you 

300
00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:21,130
know, people, a lot of people 
say that to understand Bitcoin 

301
00:18:21,130 --> 00:18:24,730
you need to do the work. 
Part of doing this work, in my 

302
00:18:24,730 --> 00:18:27,970
opinion, is like lots of 
discovery and self reflection 

303
00:18:27,970 --> 00:18:30,050
and reprogramming. 
You know, around personal 

304
00:18:30,050 --> 00:18:34,490
beliefs that you used to operate
from, but also like unconscious 

305
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:40,080
beliefs that you know or just 
that that you just gathered 

306
00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:45,120
along the way. 
How do you define this work, and

307
00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:46,840
what does it have to do with ego
death? 

308
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:58,400
Yeah, so you're you're right, a 
bunch of these for me too in 

309
00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,760
Bitcoin, understanding that a 
lot of just because of I was 

310
00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:09,560
born in a certain place. 
Gave me a massive advantage and 

311
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,040
the reason I was born in a 
certain place that essentially 

312
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,920
where it was at the top of the 
at the top of the theft of a 

313
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:23,880
monetary system gave me the same
advantage as somebody in Africa 

314
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,760
that was at the bottom of the 
theft of the monetary system 

315
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:32,410
gave a disadvantage to. 
So I I had a hard time because 

316
00:19:32,410 --> 00:19:37,730
because through previously, I 
believe just and it's not. 

317
00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:42,010
It's not This is true too. 
It's not that I didn't work 

318
00:19:42,050 --> 00:19:45,170
extraordinarily hard learned a 
bunch made a ton of mistakes 

319
00:19:45,170 --> 00:19:48,810
created and everything else. 
But I but I realized that I had 

320
00:19:48,810 --> 00:19:52,250
an easier time on that on that 
ladder than somebody who was 

321
00:19:52,250 --> 00:19:55,130
born somewhere else. 
So it was just on the inverse of

322
00:19:55,130 --> 00:19:58,050
my privilege. 
And so those were those were 

323
00:19:58,050 --> 00:20:01,810
lessons that that as I went down
the Bitcoin rabbit hole that I 

324
00:20:01,810 --> 00:20:04,530
just, I had to come to terms 
with and I really what would it 

325
00:20:04,530 --> 00:20:10,210
look like on a new system and on
a new system it would talent is 

326
00:20:10,210 --> 00:20:14,610
globally distributed, 
opportunities are not now on 

327
00:20:14,610 --> 00:20:18,810
Bitcoin, talent opportunities 
are globally distributed. 

328
00:20:19,570 --> 00:20:21,330
And so if somebody wants to 
fight that. 

329
00:20:22,060 --> 00:20:24,620
They're going to be fighting 
talent all over the world that 

330
00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:27,500
has just as much opportunity as 
as they do. 

331
00:20:27,860 --> 00:20:32,740
But the opportunity in that sat 
on on top of it, on on top of 

332
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:35,620
Bitcoin, heals the world, makes 
the world better. 

333
00:20:35,780 --> 00:20:41,020
And so the output of that 
opportunity means prices fall 

334
00:20:41,020 --> 00:20:43,860
for even people that aren't on 
Bitcoin. 

335
00:20:44,180 --> 00:20:48,610
Yeah, right. 
So, so it's a, it's just an 

336
00:20:48,610 --> 00:20:55,130
honest Ledger that that moves to
more and more of the productive 

337
00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:58,530
capacity of the world to us. 
Now there's absolutely 

338
00:20:58,850 --> 00:21:03,810
incredible businesses that can 
be built on that as they deliver

339
00:21:03,810 --> 00:21:07,250
value to other people. 
Just like there were incredible 

340
00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:10,130
businesses that were built on 
top of the technology stack. 

341
00:21:10,130 --> 00:21:16,550
That was TCIPHTTP, this 
Riverside we're on right now is 

342
00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:19,710
one of them that takes advantage
of that technology stack that 

343
00:21:19,910 --> 00:21:23,230
wasn't available until 
entrepreneurs went and created a

344
00:21:23,230 --> 00:21:28,430
value business on on top of it. 
The iPhone is one we take for 

345
00:21:28,430 --> 00:21:32,030
granted that it wasn't always 
there, but it uses the same 

346
00:21:32,030 --> 00:21:36,590
technology stack. 
All of these opportunities on 

347
00:21:36,590 --> 00:21:41,470
top of this technology stack now
that you have a decentralized 

348
00:21:41,470 --> 00:21:46,330
secure base layer in Bitcoin 
kind of the asset but but with 

349
00:21:46,330 --> 00:21:49,410
lightning fediments a whole 
bunch of other things that are 

350
00:21:49,410 --> 00:21:54,610
developing on on on on layer 
two, layer three, you're having 

351
00:21:55,090 --> 00:21:58,730
an explosion of opportunity 
that's building on top of that 

352
00:21:58,730 --> 00:22:02,970
pace secure layer that is going 
to change the world and it's 

353
00:22:02,970 --> 00:22:05,250
going to bring people in. 
It's going to get easier and 

354
00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:11,090
easier to use and and more and 
more people are going to race to

355
00:22:11,090 --> 00:22:13,890
it because of it provides value 
in in their lives. 

356
00:22:14,610 --> 00:22:17,820
Yeah. 
I find it so fascinating that 

357
00:22:17,820 --> 00:22:20,420
also when you share this, you 
know, like talent is evenly 

358
00:22:20,420 --> 00:22:24,220
distributed and opportunities 
not like it for a lot of people,

359
00:22:24,220 --> 00:22:27,380
including people who call 
themselves progressives, quote, 

360
00:22:27,380 --> 00:22:30,900
UN quote, this is what they 
would want, right? 

361
00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:34,140
Like like have equal opportunity
for anyone. 

362
00:22:35,510 --> 00:22:40,870
Perhaps get to a real 
meritocracy where people who do 

363
00:22:40,870 --> 00:22:45,470
the best at their job, whatever 
it is, they get rewarded the 

364
00:22:45,470 --> 00:22:48,830
most. 
And while you and also in the 

365
00:22:48,830 --> 00:22:50,830
book, you have a strong case for
deflation. 

366
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,200
And you know, lowering the cost 
through technology, it's 

367
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,880
generally viewed though like a 
bit negatively right in economic

368
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,360
circles. 
But like why do you think people

369
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:04,320
are so against this? 
Because they haven't done it at 

370
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,400
the first principles, nor give 
nor nor understood. 

371
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,840
I I would say in in what I 
watch, very few people think in 

372
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:16,880
first principles, very few 
people think in second and third

373
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,240
or third or 4th order effects of
changes. 

374
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,400
In other words, they're 
predicting the present forward. 

375
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,800
They're not predicting the 
future because because of that 

376
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,360
to predict the future you have 
to really think in first 

377
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,200
principles. 
You have to understand human 

378
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:40,280
action on when when something 
changes benefits so greatly, 

379
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,280
what do people do as a result 
and then what are the what's the

380
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,520
corresponding action of the 
existing system, what does it 

381
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,880
do? 
So if you just think 2, if this 

382
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,720
is imposing prices fall the 
marginal cost of production and 

383
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:58,840
we have exponentially increasing
productivity, that it's imposing

384
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,560
that reality on the world 
protected by energy. 

385
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,040
As long as it stays 
decentralized and secure, 

386
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,320
everything I just said is 
inevitable. 

387
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,960
It's repricing the world versus 
the other way around. 

388
00:24:11,980 --> 00:24:14,220
But people won't believe that. 
And they'll price it from their 

389
00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:16,620
existing system and they'll give
more power to it. 

390
00:24:17,020 --> 00:24:18,940
And So what would the existing 
system do? 

391
00:24:19,020 --> 00:24:23,980
As more and more people leave to
build on the system of truth, 

392
00:24:24,340 --> 00:24:28,220
hope, freedom and the existing 
system, what would it do? 

393
00:24:28,620 --> 00:24:31,260
So remember the existing system,
government gets bigger and 

394
00:24:31,260 --> 00:24:35,420
bigger and people say those 
people, it's only us. 

395
00:24:35,660 --> 00:24:38,350
There are no those people. 
There is no they. 

396
00:24:38,510 --> 00:24:41,630
It's us. 
It's also, I don't know what the

397
00:24:41,630 --> 00:24:45,590
code is, but it's also like that
we don't realize how much power 

398
00:24:45,590 --> 00:24:49,150
we actually have, or how few 
people are actually currently in

399
00:24:49,150 --> 00:24:50,990
power. 
How few? 

400
00:24:51,070 --> 00:24:55,190
Of us it needs, it's only us. 
And so as more and more people 

401
00:24:55,190 --> 00:24:59,190
move to the honest system and 
transact and more move more 

402
00:24:59,190 --> 00:25:01,950
benefit there and it gets 
stronger and stronger and 

403
00:25:01,950 --> 00:25:04,990
stronger through the network 
effect on the base layer people 

404
00:25:04,990 --> 00:25:07,950
holding and self gussy and the 
network effect on layer two or 

405
00:25:07,950 --> 00:25:12,630
three more and more value 
accruing there and it's and it's

406
00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:16,110
the incentives are better there,
more and more people move and 

407
00:25:16,910 --> 00:25:21,670
then what would the existing 
system do print money faster. 

408
00:25:22,590 --> 00:25:26,780
And so as it prints money faster
and destroys people within the 

409
00:25:26,780 --> 00:25:28,540
existing system more people 
move. 

410
00:25:29,220 --> 00:25:33,180
Yeah and what would it do then 
print money faster and less and 

411
00:25:33,180 --> 00:25:35,660
less base. 
So this will take a long time to

412
00:25:35,660 --> 00:25:39,180
play out, but if but but people 
don't realize how much power 

413
00:25:39,180 --> 00:25:42,820
they have into just tuning out 
of the existing system that is 

414
00:25:42,820 --> 00:25:47,140
based on a lie. 
And to to illustrate that like 

415
00:25:47,140 --> 00:25:51,300
what is your what is your 
timeline there then how how how 

416
00:25:51,300 --> 00:25:55,410
far do we have to zoom out. 
So when people ask me this, I I 

417
00:25:55,650 --> 00:25:59,650
I'm actually honestly confused 
by the question and I'll I'll. 

418
00:25:59,690 --> 00:26:02,170
Tell you I don't want to. 
No, no, no, no, but. 

419
00:26:02,530 --> 00:26:05,130
But but I'm actually honestly 
confused by the question 

420
00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:12,530
because, and I'll tell you why 
my my lake house cost $1.4 

421
00:26:12,530 --> 00:26:17,730
million three and a half years 
ago and it cost 300 Bitcoin. 

422
00:26:18,770 --> 00:26:22,690
My lake house cost $2 million 
this year. 

423
00:26:23,180 --> 00:26:25,580
Right now. 
And it costs 50 Bitcoin. 

424
00:26:26,860 --> 00:26:30,500
Yeah, so people are waiting 
while it's happening. 

425
00:26:31,180 --> 00:26:35,220
It's just so so in other words, 
I'm already living in the future

426
00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,540
and other people and so a lot of
people, just a lot of people 

427
00:26:39,540 --> 00:26:41,780
thought. 
They can go to the future now. 

428
00:26:42,980 --> 00:26:45,420
Everybody has a choice right now
to go to the future. 

429
00:26:45,660 --> 00:26:48,820
So my so there's a whole bunch 
of people around my lake house 

430
00:26:48,820 --> 00:26:53,470
and all those people think their
house just went up six, $600,000

431
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:57,550
and what really happened, it 
fell by 250 Bitcoin. 

432
00:26:58,630 --> 00:27:01,350
And so and that's going to 
continue and it's going to 

433
00:27:01,350 --> 00:27:06,470
continue forever. 
So, so it depends what world you

434
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:09,950
want to measure in. 
And and again, all of the war 

435
00:27:09,950 --> 00:27:12,750
and divide and everything else 
that we see out of the world 

436
00:27:12,750 --> 00:27:17,510
today is a result of the system 
that we live in, that people are

437
00:27:17,510 --> 00:27:19,350
giving more power, more power 
to. 

438
00:27:19,770 --> 00:27:23,890
So when right now? 
Yeah, that's. 

439
00:27:25,050 --> 00:27:27,170
Great. 
Because I wrote down another 

440
00:27:27,170 --> 00:27:31,210
question because you you also 
talk about, you know, what the 

441
00:27:31,210 --> 00:27:34,930
generational impact of adopting 
something like Bitcoin could be.

442
00:27:34,930 --> 00:27:39,130
And you know, we hear Greg Foss 
say we do this for the kids a 

443
00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:41,330
lot. 
And I wanted to ask you like how

444
00:27:41,330 --> 00:27:43,330
can we influence the future by 
acting now? 

445
00:27:43,330 --> 00:27:46,160
But the answer is act now, back 
now. 

446
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,520
Just start to like spend more 
time here spend more and and 

447
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,880
you're I, I keep saying this 
your impact, every one of our 

448
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:54,920
impact. 
We matter. 

449
00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,080
We touch people with your your 
voice you matter. 

450
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,400
So if you want to spend more 
time in the existing system 

451
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:06,080
yelling at that system, you're 
impacting it, you're making it 

452
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:08,440
stronger. 
If you want to spend more time 

453
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,520
in in this system with people 
that are building this new 

454
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:16,290
system, you're impacting it, 
making it stronger and so spend 

455
00:28:16,290 --> 00:28:19,090
more time in the new system, 
you'll be happier. 

456
00:28:19,850 --> 00:28:25,290
Yeah, I totally agree with that 
obviously. 

457
00:28:26,130 --> 00:28:29,250
But I do also understand that 
it's hard for people who are in 

458
00:28:29,250 --> 00:28:33,610
the current system and and maybe
are are doing the work or are 

459
00:28:33,610 --> 00:28:36,810
total oblivious, right? 
Like how? 

460
00:28:37,130 --> 00:28:40,890
How does one start right Like is
that? 

461
00:28:41,980 --> 00:28:44,660
Just saying enough is enough 
when you, you know, buy a banana

462
00:28:44,660 --> 00:28:47,700
for $5 or how? 
How do you see that? 

463
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:50,100
Oh, I just lost you for a SEC, 
Bram. 

464
00:28:50,740 --> 00:28:54,420
No, I I said, you know, like I I
totally agree with you 

465
00:28:54,460 --> 00:28:57,700
obviously, right. 
But but there's a lot of people 

466
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:00,340
who are in the current system 
and they are oblivious. 

467
00:29:00,340 --> 00:29:01,980
Or maybe they start doing the 
work. 

468
00:29:02,820 --> 00:29:07,300
You know what? 
What in your view is like? 

469
00:29:08,130 --> 00:29:10,570
A trigger for someone to 
actually start or like what 

470
00:29:10,570 --> 00:29:13,010
should they ask themselves 
first? 

471
00:29:13,330 --> 00:29:16,850
If not, you know when they buy a
banana for $5 they think you 

472
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:18,170
know. 
This is ridiculous. 

473
00:29:18,770 --> 00:29:21,090
What is going on? 
Yeah. 

474
00:29:21,090 --> 00:29:25,410
So I can't tell you for so 
that's why I wrote the book 

475
00:29:25,410 --> 00:29:29,850
because I knew people couldn't 
see this and I I figured by 

476
00:29:29,850 --> 00:29:33,890
tying it to technology to to 
they could understand how fast 

477
00:29:33,890 --> 00:29:37,210
technology was moving in their 
lives, how much abundance it was

478
00:29:37,210 --> 00:29:41,290
trying to give them. 
They would start to question 

479
00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:44,530
some of the other things. 
Why does the world look like 

480
00:29:44,530 --> 00:29:47,490
this? 
So to to me, asking questions, 

481
00:29:47,490 --> 00:29:51,650
asking questions or starting 
where somebody, somebody is 

482
00:29:51,650 --> 00:29:55,540
trying to solve their own 
problem, meeting them where they

483
00:29:55,540 --> 00:30:00,700
are, is the place to is is the 
place to ask the question 

484
00:30:00,700 --> 00:30:04,180
instead of telling somebody. 
So when somebody can, when 

485
00:30:04,180 --> 00:30:07,820
somebody can explore what for 
for them, why? 

486
00:30:07,820 --> 00:30:11,340
When they can come to the 
conclusion themselves, then then

487
00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:13,700
it sticks. 
People don't want to be told. 

488
00:30:13,980 --> 00:30:16,860
They typically fight back 
against being told something. 

489
00:30:17,740 --> 00:30:20,660
Yeah, I fully agree. 
I I I think like. 

490
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,080
Six months ago, I really 
understood that I should switch 

491
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,680
from telling to asking. 
Yeah, right, Yeah. 

492
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,680
What and what's the most 
compelling like counter argument

493
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:36,120
if that you've heard against 
these views and how do you 

494
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,120
respond to them? 
I haven't heard one yet. 

495
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,760
I honestly, honestly, I I 
haven't heard. 

496
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:49,080
I did a debate with George 
Gammon George Gammon the other 

497
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:55,350
day on on Peter McCormack and 
and and by the way I actually I 

498
00:30:55,350 --> 00:30:59,230
like George a lot but but he's 
looking through the system of 

499
00:30:59,230 --> 00:31:02,030
the past or I suspect he's 
looking through the system of 

500
00:31:02,030 --> 00:31:06,870
the past and he he's and he says
human nature will will keep it 

501
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:09,710
there. 
Well, my my question is how? 

502
00:31:11,270 --> 00:31:13,030
How would human nature keep it 
there? 

503
00:31:13,030 --> 00:31:17,310
Because by voting. 
So if human nature says I'm 

504
00:31:17,310 --> 00:31:21,000
going to vote for more 
manipulation of money, Bitcoin 

505
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:25,440
doesn't care, right? 
Yes, that system will fail 

506
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,760
faster, but Bitcoin keeps on 
imposing A discipline until 

507
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:31,520
people realize they can't fight 
with it. 

508
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:36,000
It's an honest Ledger that that 
that it, it keeps on posing that

509
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,360
discipline so well. 
There's some interesting kind of

510
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,600
inside those arguments why 
people have their own beliefs. 

511
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:49,400
I haven't seen one yet that that
that that counteracts what I 

512
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:53,930
just said about if it stays 
decentralized and secure it 

513
00:31:54,970 --> 00:31:57,050
ultimately it's repricing 
everything else. 

514
00:31:57,970 --> 00:32:01,330
Now I'm open to the fact if 
somebody wants to why I keep 

515
00:32:01,330 --> 00:32:04,330
saying if is for two real 
reasons. 

516
00:32:04,930 --> 00:32:07,610
I'm it's not that I'm worried 
about it one iota. 

517
00:32:07,810 --> 00:32:12,490
I want for the first reason is I
want people to try to attack it 

518
00:32:12,490 --> 00:32:16,690
in that vector to be able to say
so they can understand how 

519
00:32:16,690 --> 00:32:21,010
decentralized and secure it is. 
And the second reason I say it 

520
00:32:21,010 --> 00:32:26,370
is, is that by running a node 
you probably run a node. 

521
00:32:26,370 --> 00:32:30,850
I run a node and everything else
that that I would have to act in

522
00:32:30,850 --> 00:32:35,650
my best against my best interest
to to to change it. 

523
00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:38,490
And so the hunt call it the 
hundreds of thousands of other 

524
00:32:38,490 --> 00:32:41,810
node runners that are all 
private behind Tor networks and 

525
00:32:41,810 --> 00:32:44,770
everything else all over the 
world would have to do the same 

526
00:32:44,770 --> 00:32:48,680
thing. 
And so I try to say why I say if

527
00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:54,120
too is is to to push on there, 
to say why would we, what would 

528
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,640
we, how would we have to be 
tricked to be able to go against

529
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,920
our self-interest and to keep to
to to to understand that that's 

530
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,520
probably the the only attack 
factor. 

531
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,360
Yeah, yeah, I I would recommend 
everyone to actually listen to 

532
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,480
that episode. 
I really enjoyed it and I I also

533
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:16,720
thought it was interesting that.
A lot of your rebuttals were the

534
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,320
same all over again, right? 
Like as you said if it stays 

535
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,160
decentralized and secure, then 
it will just stay as is. 

536
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:27,280
And and I agree that the answers
of George or perhaps anyone 

537
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:32,080
looking at it from the other 
system now that I think of it is

538
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,360
interesting. 
It's like it's it's an, it's an 

539
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:38,840
abstract answer abstracted on on
another abstraction, right And 

540
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:44,010
and basically, George says. 
We cannot trust ourselves and 

541
00:33:44,010 --> 00:33:47,090
that's why we will follow these 
people who will, you know, point

542
00:33:47,090 --> 00:33:49,610
to a bad guy or give us free 
money or whatever. 

543
00:33:50,650 --> 00:33:53,530
But it's so interesting because 
that's the entire point of 

544
00:33:53,530 --> 00:33:56,090
Bitcoin. 
The protocol, in my opinion, is 

545
00:33:56,290 --> 00:34:01,050
the realization that we cannot 
trust ourselves, which is fine. 

546
00:34:01,410 --> 00:34:05,530
That's why we have a protocol 
that just is and you have the 

547
00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:09,409
choice to. 
Adopted and follow the rules or 

548
00:34:09,409 --> 00:34:12,730
not and you and you stay in a 
system where you follow the 

549
00:34:12,730 --> 00:34:15,850
rulers, right? 
So actually when you look at it 

550
00:34:15,850 --> 00:34:18,050
from George's point of view, we 
cannot trust ourselves. 

551
00:34:18,050 --> 00:34:22,530
That's I would say cementing the
the Bitcoin thesis in a sense. 

552
00:34:22,730 --> 00:34:25,330
So that that's actually what I 
that's actually what I see like 

553
00:34:25,330 --> 00:34:29,130
even the his arguments were in. 
In other words, you're going to 

554
00:34:29,130 --> 00:34:35,590
have less and less people that 
are going to to be able to trick

555
00:34:35,710 --> 00:34:38,510
in the existing system. 
And over and over time it's 

556
00:34:38,510 --> 00:34:40,510
going to transition and more 
people are going to. 

557
00:34:41,030 --> 00:34:44,989
More people are going to see 
that the system based on rules 

558
00:34:45,110 --> 00:34:49,270
that can't be fucked with, 
imposes that imposes that. 

559
00:34:49,270 --> 00:34:51,550
Now I this why this? 
Why? 

560
00:34:52,469 --> 00:34:56,230
You cannot trick because you 
have to prove like in Bitcoin. 

561
00:34:56,230 --> 00:35:00,300
You have to prove like there's 
no no he's he he's right. 

562
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,820
If if you if you could make it 
non decentralized and secure or 

563
00:35:04,820 --> 00:35:07,860
you could create paper Bitcoin 
everywhere else, he's right. 

564
00:35:07,860 --> 00:35:11,260
The humans will do that and 
they'll do everything they can 

565
00:35:11,260 --> 00:35:15,740
to try to take power. 
In fact that's what Ethereum is,

566
00:35:16,060 --> 00:35:19,060
right. 
Vitalik was on Bitcoin before 

567
00:35:19,060 --> 00:35:22,620
but that's what Ethereum is. 
That's that's what that's what 

568
00:35:22,620 --> 00:35:25,220
all of these other coins are 
tried to do. 

569
00:35:25,220 --> 00:35:28,140
That's what Bitcoin Cash is. 
A whole bunch of people that 

570
00:35:28,140 --> 00:35:33,540
were the the had more power in 
the old system decided to do it 

571
00:35:33,660 --> 00:35:37,580
to to do a change so that you 
could aggregate more control. 

572
00:35:38,060 --> 00:35:39,820
It's the ego. 
I am better, yeah. 

573
00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:42,540
So the beautiful thing about 
that is we have a pretty good 

574
00:35:42,540 --> 00:35:47,060
long history and more and more 
and more if you, if you mess 

575
00:35:47,060 --> 00:35:50,020
with it, you're the one that 
gets, you're the one that gets 

576
00:35:50,020 --> 00:35:53,060
killed, right. 
This, the protocol keeps on, 

577
00:35:53,540 --> 00:35:56,450
keeps on moving. 
It is and and and it. 

578
00:35:56,450 --> 00:35:58,170
Also allows you to mess with it,
right? 

579
00:35:58,170 --> 00:36:01,170
Like Bitcoin Cash. 
Like you know do your thing try 

580
00:36:01,170 --> 00:36:03,770
it out. 
Yeah go go go crazy And those 

581
00:36:03,770 --> 00:36:08,290
people that end up doing that 
they get liquidated and and and 

582
00:36:08,290 --> 00:36:11,610
and the coins and the coin and 
Bitcoin get redistributed to a 

583
00:36:11,610 --> 00:36:14,690
whole bunch of honest brokers 
that are they're holding so. 

584
00:36:15,130 --> 00:36:20,650
So in that discussion too I I 
would say it it was interesting 

585
00:36:20,650 --> 00:36:23,560
to me too and I have again I 
like George. 

586
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,840
I think over time he's come a 
long way in Bitcoin already and 

587
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,000
I think just like everybody see 
it's easy to think even for 

588
00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:35,560
myself it's easy to think I 
always knew all these answers 

589
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:39,120
and I didn't right. 
You have to go through the work 

590
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:42,200
to be able to understand and 
once you do, you think everybody

591
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,240
else should know and they're 
going through their own work. 

592
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,520
Which is, again, ego right if 
you. 

593
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,920
Yeah, it's funny. 
It's funny, like once. 

594
00:36:52,660 --> 00:36:54,740
Yeah. 
Once you see Bitcoin, I'd say 

595
00:36:54,740 --> 00:36:57,500
and all these things that are 
attached to this, it's like it's

596
00:36:57,500 --> 00:36:59,780
like the same things coming back
all the time actually. 

597
00:36:59,780 --> 00:37:04,740
Interesting yesterday, you know,
I will publish this in like 2 to

598
00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:09,180
3 weeks, but yesterday was the 
fake BlackRock ETF pump, you 

599
00:37:09,180 --> 00:37:11,620
know, and you saw people talk 
about, yeah, all these people 

600
00:37:11,620 --> 00:37:14,380
got liquidated because they were
lever a leverage of blah blah. 

601
00:37:15,220 --> 00:37:17,500
And then again, I think, but 
then you don't, you know. 

602
00:37:17,790 --> 00:37:19,190
You don't deserve to own 
Bitcoin. 

603
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:23,070
That's this is the whole thing 
is this is the essence, right? 

604
00:37:23,630 --> 00:37:26,070
If you try to fuck around, you 
will get burnt because this 

605
00:37:26,070 --> 00:37:29,430
thing doesn't doesn't care. 
And this was a prime, prime 

606
00:37:29,430 --> 00:37:33,350
example of that. 
Matt Odell's Stay Humble and and

607
00:37:33,350 --> 00:37:35,870
Stacks hats is just perfect. 
That's it, Yeah. 

608
00:37:36,510 --> 00:37:38,230
All right. 
So how do you think? 

609
00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:42,030
You know the like. 
More moral fabric of society 

610
00:37:42,030 --> 00:37:45,100
could change if. 
You know the principles behind 

611
00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:48,860
Bitcoin or the deflationary 
economics would would actually 

612
00:37:48,860 --> 00:37:53,940
be adopted like does it address 
any like existential issues that

613
00:37:54,580 --> 00:37:56,540
humans have you think Yeah all 
all of them. 

614
00:37:57,980 --> 00:38:04,780
It literally it's it's it's that
it's that big a change and and 

615
00:38:05,380 --> 00:38:09,060
and I said this probably 
thousands of times but if you 

616
00:38:09,060 --> 00:38:12,020
just ask we're living in two 
systems right now and where you 

617
00:38:12,020 --> 00:38:13,700
spend time will matter for your 
life. 

618
00:38:13,700 --> 00:38:17,900
But but think about what the 
world would look like on a 

619
00:38:17,900 --> 00:38:22,660
dishonest Ledger that had to 
become more dishonest over time 

620
00:38:22,980 --> 00:38:28,820
and you and you were living in 
that dishonest Ledger and the 

621
00:38:28,820 --> 00:38:31,740
incentives accrued against that 
dishonest Ledger. 

622
00:38:32,340 --> 00:38:35,450
Who would win or who would lose?
So who would? 

623
00:38:35,530 --> 00:38:37,210
Who would win? 
Who would lose? 

624
00:38:37,210 --> 00:38:40,290
What do the world look like? 
It would just maybe be a mere 

625
00:38:40,690 --> 00:38:45,210
reflection of all the actions of
the world on top of a dishonest 

626
00:38:45,210 --> 00:38:47,890
Ledger. 
It's like, it's really simple. 

627
00:38:48,850 --> 00:38:52,410
And then ask yourself, so that's
the world you live in today, or 

628
00:38:52,410 --> 00:38:55,810
most people live in today. 
And when they're looking at the 

629
00:38:55,810 --> 00:38:59,770
news or the governments or 
looking at all of the OR or or 

630
00:38:59,770 --> 00:39:05,200
giant companies or that they're 
operating on top of that 

631
00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:08,120
dishonest Ledger, that's what 
you're seeing. 

632
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,480
And ask yourself, what would the
world look like on an honest 

633
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:14,320
Ledger? 
What would it look like on 

634
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:19,600
something that that drove the 
incentives to the to the 

635
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:22,440
productive capacity to 
productive people in the world 

636
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,520
instead of the rents, rent 
seekers? 

637
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,560
What would that world look like?
What would you see different? 

638
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:31,280
And so which world do you want 
to see? 

639
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,640
Depends on what Ledger, because 
that's really is. 

640
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:37,120
If you wanted to simplify 
Bitcoin, that's what it is. 

641
00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:40,520
You have a dishonest Ledger or 
an honest Ledger, what would you

642
00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:43,400
expect to see inside both of 
them? 

643
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:47,520
It literally changes everything.
It changes when it's it. 

644
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:52,400
When people say Bitcoin fixes 
the world, it's it's not 

645
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,320
hyperbole. 
It changes everything. 

646
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,580
Yeah, and it's actually the. 
I would say like the counter 

647
00:40:00,140 --> 00:40:04,260
arguments quote UN quote of 
people who say you know when you

648
00:40:04,260 --> 00:40:06,540
say something like this fix the 
money fix the world that it's 

649
00:40:06,540 --> 00:40:10,500
such a such a big thing and like
you're you're just trying to 

650
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:13,460
have the price go up etcetera 
but it's it's just bigger than 

651
00:40:13,460 --> 00:40:16,260
that. 
Like I I I'm also really working

652
00:40:16,260 --> 00:40:20,780
and and and trying to figure out
like how how can I start these? 

653
00:40:21,420 --> 00:40:23,740
I almost want to say like bigger
conversations that are. 

654
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:25,840
Are not even about Bitcoin, 
right? 

655
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:29,640
Like Bitcoin is a solution, but 
first people have to understand 

656
00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:33,960
what they are actually, you 
know, operating in and what the 

657
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,280
system is and that they don't 
know a lot of things, right? 

658
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,840
Yeah, I haven't seen as as 
people kind of talk about the 

659
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,600
problems in the existing world 
that they're worried about most 

660
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:49,360
of the if you just went number 
down one to 10, I haven't seen 

661
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,720
one of those things that Bitcoin
doesn't solve. 

662
00:40:53,180 --> 00:40:56,420
Yeah, I. 
Agree every one of them and then

663
00:40:56,420 --> 00:40:58,540
if you want 10 to 20 it would 
solve those too. 

664
00:40:58,900 --> 00:41:01,940
And it solves them because the 
incentives, incentives run our 

665
00:41:01,940 --> 00:41:04,460
lives and and incentives around 
the world like. 

666
00:41:04,660 --> 00:41:07,620
But think about in this existing
system people are working harder

667
00:41:07,620 --> 00:41:11,540
and harder and harder every year
for less and less and less. 

668
00:41:12,500 --> 00:41:17,660
Well, when the world should look
the opposite, they should be 

669
00:41:17,660 --> 00:41:22,170
getting more and more naturally.
As a result, not just in their 

670
00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:26,050
technology, things in houses and
everything, all prices. 

671
00:41:26,050 --> 00:41:30,210
So, so people, even some people 
that have read my book, think 

672
00:41:30,210 --> 00:41:32,650
I'm just talking about 
technology, but technology isn't

673
00:41:32,650 --> 00:41:34,050
everything. 
Technology is. 

674
00:41:34,490 --> 00:41:36,690
We don't build houses like we 
did 50 years ago. 

675
00:41:37,490 --> 00:41:40,570
We don't have supply chains like
we did 50 years. 

676
00:41:40,850 --> 00:41:44,130
We had technologies and energy 
technologies everywhere. 

677
00:41:44,410 --> 00:41:47,050
So all of these things would be 
falling to the marginal cost of 

678
00:41:47,050 --> 00:41:48,450
production? 
Yeah. 

679
00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:54,020
So do you think there are any, 
like spiritual or philosophical 

680
00:41:54,020 --> 00:41:58,700
teachings that resonate with the
core principles of Bitcoin? 

681
00:41:59,460 --> 00:42:03,140
I think that this is, I think 
all of these things, whether 

682
00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:09,500
it's philosophy, I think if you 
kind of or religions, I think 

683
00:42:09,500 --> 00:42:16,580
they're ultimately a level of 
consciousness and science and 

684
00:42:17,100 --> 00:42:19,830
and, and. 
Or different ways up the 

685
00:42:19,830 --> 00:42:24,870
mountain, different insights. 
And at the top of the and at the

686
00:42:24,870 --> 00:42:27,510
top of the mountain, it all 
looks the same. 

687
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:32,310
But if you're if you're midway 
up the mountain and looking 

688
00:42:32,310 --> 00:42:35,230
across, you can't see kind of 
the other person's viewpoint, 

689
00:42:35,230 --> 00:42:39,590
you can't see that you can't see
lower across. 

690
00:42:39,590 --> 00:42:42,350
I think these things merge and I
think they emerge because 

691
00:42:43,790 --> 00:42:47,510
everything's energy. 
Every. 

692
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:51,400
I think everything's quantum 
that means the universe is 

693
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:56,600
quantum and that means we are 
quantum as well and these and 

694
00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:02,240
and and I think these things 
merge overtime time and if you 

695
00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:04,840
think about Bitcoin as a 
peer-to-peer Internet backed 

696
00:43:04,960 --> 00:43:08,920
bounded by energy it allows us 
to. 

697
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:14,870
Rise in consciousness as a 
result of moving in that world. 

698
00:43:14,870 --> 00:43:17,790
Now I know that would be really 
hard to see for people and it's 

699
00:43:17,790 --> 00:43:20,990
a big concept that I just talked
about and I didn't. 

700
00:43:20,990 --> 00:43:27,390
I gave it 2 seconds. 
But but if you were, if you were

701
00:43:27,390 --> 00:43:34,870
angry, the mirror reflection of 
around people in your life would

702
00:43:34,950 --> 00:43:37,150
you'd see anger. 
You couldn't. 

703
00:43:37,150 --> 00:43:40,030
It's really hard for you to see 
love, right? 

704
00:43:40,670 --> 00:43:45,030
If you were, if you had apathy, 
you wouldn't see nothing would 

705
00:43:45,030 --> 00:43:49,950
trigger you and different levels
of of consciousness you couldn't

706
00:43:49,950 --> 00:43:52,990
you wouldn't be able to see the 
what the IT doesn't. 

707
00:43:52,990 --> 00:43:56,110
So your your level of 
consciousness is describing the 

708
00:43:56,110 --> 00:44:01,710
world you see back at you. 
And I think, I think over time 

709
00:44:01,710 --> 00:44:04,830
Bitcoin allows a rise in 
consciousness of the world. 

710
00:44:05,510 --> 00:44:09,070
Yeah, but I fully agree. 
I also believe everything is a 

711
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:11,670
quantum and as you said a 
peer-to-peer network of energy 

712
00:44:12,030 --> 00:44:14,110
that sounds like humans also, 
right. 

713
00:44:14,110 --> 00:44:19,630
So Bitcoin is, is is a fractal 
of the same thing, just like 

714
00:44:20,470 --> 00:44:22,270
this could be a whole nother 
conversation by the way. 

715
00:44:22,870 --> 00:44:25,310
But I want to say like, yeah, 
just like everything is a 

716
00:44:25,310 --> 00:44:31,670
fractal of of the same thing you
know with with the the 

717
00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:35,640
structures that exists in in 
nature and the universe and 

718
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:40,160
within us etcetera. 
So do you also believe, I heard 

719
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:42,560
someone say this last week, 
which is interesting, if if you 

720
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:45,960
follow this right and and you 
are into this and you believe 

721
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:51,240
this, then you would probably 
also think that Bitcoin was a 

722
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,400
discovery and not an invention, 
then right like that, that it 

723
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,360
was always there in a sense. 
Yeah. 

724
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,200
And I and I buy that. 
I, I, I, I interchange those. 

725
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,560
But I learn more to discovery, 
yes. 

726
00:45:03,230 --> 00:45:06,590
All right, so this podcast is 
called Bitcoin for Millennials, 

727
00:45:06,590 --> 00:45:08,350
right? 
Because I think it's important 

728
00:45:08,430 --> 00:45:13,670
to, you know, educate my own 
generation that especially in 

729
00:45:13,670 --> 00:45:16,350
the Western world hasn't really 
learned about finance, 

730
00:45:16,350 --> 00:45:18,430
economics, etcetera. 
But you are part of another 

731
00:45:18,430 --> 00:45:22,590
generation before us X born 
between 65 and 80. 

732
00:45:22,870 --> 00:45:25,430
Like what are the what are the 
things that you have run into 

733
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:28,590
trying to explain Bitcoin to 
your generation? 

734
00:45:31,550 --> 00:45:35,230
I I think it's some so I wrote 
wrote about this in the in the 

735
00:45:35,230 --> 00:45:41,430
book In times of great change 
experts, experts aren't 

736
00:45:41,430 --> 00:45:44,510
typically who you go to because 
they can't. 

737
00:45:44,510 --> 00:45:47,830
They the same thing that created
them being an expert. 

738
00:45:47,830 --> 00:45:52,390
They've seen so many things that
that they discounted. 

739
00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:57,500
So, so when really great change 
comes, they discount it too. 

740
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:01,060
And they don't have an open and 
curious mind. 

741
00:46:01,940 --> 00:46:06,180
And Bitcoin, because it'll rip 
everything your belief system 

742
00:46:06,180 --> 00:46:08,700
down because it operated. 
It's the first time in human 

743
00:46:08,700 --> 00:46:12,260
history that something existed 
that was decentralized and 

744
00:46:12,260 --> 00:46:15,460
secure. 
Like we you always threw out our

745
00:46:15,460 --> 00:46:18,550
history books. 
Something could always be Co 

746
00:46:18,550 --> 00:46:21,350
opted because money was 
subordinate to laws and if you 

747
00:46:21,350 --> 00:46:23,310
could control the money you 
could control everybody. 

748
00:46:23,310 --> 00:46:26,430
You could tax the entire world 
through that control of money so

749
00:46:26,430 --> 00:46:30,990
you could tax all you could, you
could take it sliver of all 

750
00:46:30,990 --> 00:46:34,790
human labor on on on top of 
that. 

751
00:46:35,470 --> 00:46:41,710
So, so I just go if Bitcoin was 
truly decentralized and secure, 

752
00:46:41,710 --> 00:46:44,870
and that's what I did, where I 
did a lot of work, it would. 

753
00:46:45,310 --> 00:46:49,630
It would impose a totally 
different discipline to where 

754
00:46:49,630 --> 00:46:52,670
we're going compared to what of 
all the history books and 

755
00:46:52,670 --> 00:46:55,350
everything else that we'd ever 
seen, because we'd never had 

756
00:46:55,350 --> 00:46:59,470
something like that. 
And so so that's such a big, 

757
00:46:59,710 --> 00:47:03,790
that's such a big idea you'd it 
forced me down to be curious 

758
00:47:03,790 --> 00:47:07,390
about where I could be wrong. 
What could this look like? 

759
00:47:07,390 --> 00:47:08,950
How could you kill it? 
What would it take? 

760
00:47:09,230 --> 00:47:11,070
How much power would try to kill
it? 

761
00:47:11,070 --> 00:47:12,870
What would that would look like 
over time? 

762
00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:18,060
And as I understood that with an
open, curious mind, I understood

763
00:47:18,060 --> 00:47:23,780
that, OK, assuming it does this,
which I think is inevitable now,

764
00:47:25,020 --> 00:47:29,460
that means the future is 
unwritten and it doesn't need to

765
00:47:29,460 --> 00:47:32,820
rely on the prep past rules that
we created. 

766
00:47:32,940 --> 00:47:37,140
Also, in the past, the winners 
write the history books, right? 

767
00:47:37,380 --> 00:47:40,340
So a lot of those would be 
filled, a lot of our past would 

768
00:47:40,340 --> 00:47:42,620
be filled with errors that we're
making. 

769
00:47:43,520 --> 00:47:46,840
On top of a system that looks 
really different and all of the 

770
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:50,400
people that were really great at
understanding history and all 

771
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:55,240
the reasons that exists would be
not very good at understanding 

772
00:47:55,360 --> 00:48:01,000
the future for the same reason. 
So I I have again looking at it 

773
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,920
from the old thing or what has 
been right, yeah. 

774
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,960
And I have empathy for those 
people. 

775
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,680
But there's many, many in in my 
generation and older. 

776
00:48:12,690 --> 00:48:16,290
Who? 
Who Do one of two things. 

777
00:48:16,290 --> 00:48:19,130
Push back against all of this 
and not without going deep 

778
00:48:19,130 --> 00:48:25,970
enough to understand it or or 
just consider it's too big for 

779
00:48:25,970 --> 00:48:29,210
them. 
I'm going to let somebody else 

780
00:48:29,210 --> 00:48:39,010
decide, the millennials. 
Well, is it also hard then for 

781
00:48:39,010 --> 00:48:43,280
people to because in Bitcoin 
people talk also about a lot 

782
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:47,000
about like sovereignty, you 
know, like and and also we talk 

783
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:52,520
about, you know when when you 
try to find things or or 

784
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:56,040
triggers for people to actually 
go down the rabbit hole, it 

785
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:58,880
actually you, you instantly take
on a certain type of 

786
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,400
responsibility, right. 
Because when you say like I live

787
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:08,040
in a system that I didn't chose 
choose to live in, I'm, I'm the 

788
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,440
subject of it. 
I want to change it. 

789
00:49:11,180 --> 00:49:13,900
OK, now I have a problem, right?
If I want to figure this out. 

790
00:49:13,900 --> 00:49:18,060
So do you think that's also a 
thing that it's hard for people 

791
00:49:18,060 --> 00:49:21,460
nowadays to take that agency and
ownership in a sense? 

792
00:49:22,380 --> 00:49:26,220
I think that's just, I think as 
more and more incentives accrue 

793
00:49:26,220 --> 00:49:29,580
to the new system to be able to 
do that, more and more people 

794
00:49:29,580 --> 00:49:31,780
will take it. 
It'll also get easier too. 

795
00:49:32,220 --> 00:49:36,730
So we have to remember, we have 
to remember that like lower the 

796
00:49:36,730 --> 00:49:38,210
bar for them. 
Yeah, exactly. 

797
00:49:38,410 --> 00:49:40,810
But and we also have to remember
that when you're just explaining

798
00:49:40,810 --> 00:49:44,130
Bitcoin like we are explaining 
now, and we haven't gone deep 

799
00:49:44,130 --> 00:49:49,570
into the technical realm, but 
for people who have a lot of 

800
00:49:49,570 --> 00:49:52,450
society just doesn't have the 
time or inclination to be able 

801
00:49:52,450 --> 00:49:54,770
to do that. 
So it's just that they trust 

802
00:49:54,770 --> 00:49:59,050
institutions because they think 
there's there's safety and 

803
00:49:59,050 --> 00:50:01,530
trusting an institution to do 
them, do that for them. 

804
00:50:01,970 --> 00:50:05,940
And I keep asking myself. 
How could regulation on top of a

805
00:50:05,940 --> 00:50:09,460
system that needs to steal your 
money work? 

806
00:50:10,180 --> 00:50:11,980
Correct. 
How could regulation to protect 

807
00:50:11,980 --> 00:50:15,180
your money from a system on 
that's designed to steal at 

808
00:50:15,180 --> 00:50:18,660
work? 
So, so, but it but many people 

809
00:50:18,660 --> 00:50:20,380
wouldn't be there. 
So they just trust the 

810
00:50:20,380 --> 00:50:23,100
institution, They trust their 
bank, they trust all of these 

811
00:50:23,100 --> 00:50:24,100
things. 
Yeah, that's a fantasy. 

812
00:50:24,220 --> 00:50:27,620
Of it's A and it and it's 
fallacy and so they don't go 

813
00:50:27,620 --> 00:50:30,760
down down this. 
But, but when you're talking a 

814
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:36,320
protocol type of technology like
Bitcoin, TCIP, base layer and 

815
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:40,080
then you remember you can't see 
what's available on the next 

816
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:41,400
layer until it's in front of 
you. 

817
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,760
And then you can't see the the 
types of businesses or the types

818
00:50:45,760 --> 00:50:49,760
of value that can be built for 
on top of it until lots of 

819
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:53,280
entrepreneurs go and use that 
technology to create really 

820
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,560
valuable things. 
I just understand how early we 

821
00:50:56,560 --> 00:51:00,130
are. 
In this process and how really 

822
00:51:00,130 --> 00:51:04,450
we are in in the world 
understanding this because 

823
00:51:05,090 --> 00:51:09,690
because it's those entrepreneur 
and that all of those things are

824
00:51:09,690 --> 00:51:13,130
going to make make products and 
services and everything else 

825
00:51:13,130 --> 00:51:17,850
that that ease the onboarding of
billions of people onto Bitcoin 

826
00:51:18,490 --> 00:51:21,490
in a way more simple technology,
in a way more simple 

827
00:51:21,490 --> 00:51:23,850
understanding than they 
understand now. 

828
00:51:24,570 --> 00:51:27,770
So we don't have like if you 
look around, I don't remember 

829
00:51:27,770 --> 00:51:34,170
the last Internet conference, 
true, but but in in the 90s you 

830
00:51:34,450 --> 00:51:37,290
used to have them, but I went 
through the Bitcoin conference 

831
00:51:37,290 --> 00:51:38,850
last week. 
And that's why, that's why, 

832
00:51:38,850 --> 00:51:41,890
that's why like like now, right 
now we're we're we're still in 

833
00:51:41,890 --> 00:51:47,290
the Bitcoin conference stage 
stage of this as people are 

834
00:51:47,290 --> 00:51:51,010
trying to teach the technology 
and and how to how to do this. 

835
00:51:51,410 --> 00:51:55,730
And and as it becomes simpler 
and easier and as as it offers 

836
00:51:55,730 --> 00:51:58,850
more use cases for people, 
you'll have people coming on to 

837
00:51:58,850 --> 00:52:02,850
this and not even understanding 
how Bitcoin has made their life 

838
00:52:02,850 --> 00:52:07,570
so much better. 
Do you then see see these new 

839
00:52:07,570 --> 00:52:12,650
developments like CBD, CS as a 
threat and the distraction 

840
00:52:12,650 --> 00:52:15,290
probably. 
Well, it it it'll lower the bar 

841
00:52:15,290 --> 00:52:17,530
right. 
If they say you will get $100 or

842
00:52:17,530 --> 00:52:22,290
€100 if you install this, you 
know CBDC wallet, so. 

843
00:52:22,450 --> 00:52:25,090
So, but again, what will happen 
to those €100? 

844
00:52:25,090 --> 00:52:27,130
They'll have to be be inflated 
faster. 

845
00:52:27,130 --> 00:52:30,570
You'll have to be so all of 
these things, but it does extend

846
00:52:30,610 --> 00:52:33,770
the lifetime of the. 
I think those types of things 

847
00:52:33,770 --> 00:52:39,090
actually accelerate Bitcoin. 
I I think, I I think number we 

848
00:52:39,090 --> 00:52:41,770
don't have enough time to go 
into it right now, right now. 

849
00:52:41,770 --> 00:52:45,770
But there is no way in in that a
free market can work. 

850
00:52:45,770 --> 00:52:47,810
There's no way. 
So we sit on top of a free 

851
00:52:47,810 --> 00:52:51,350
market, Yeah. 
So if the entire market, if the 

852
00:52:51,350 --> 00:52:58,310
entire global market said said 
it's all CBDCS and we control 

853
00:52:58,310 --> 00:53:02,750
the the the market globally and 
then each country inside those 

854
00:53:02,750 --> 00:53:06,990
CBDCS played to the same rules, 
how would that work? 

855
00:53:08,230 --> 00:53:11,470
There is no living standards 
would have to go down 

856
00:53:12,150 --> 00:53:16,650
precipitously. 
And all all over the world, 

857
00:53:16,650 --> 00:53:19,170
because where would the money 
come from to be able to do the 

858
00:53:19,570 --> 00:53:23,210
to do that. 
So the the notion of a CBDC 

859
00:53:23,850 --> 00:53:27,250
being able to work and globally 
not, I'm not saying it won't be 

860
00:53:27,250 --> 00:53:31,450
tried, but all of these things 
are just, I would say out of the

861
00:53:31,450 --> 00:53:33,770
existing system. 
All of these things are totally 

862
00:53:33,770 --> 00:53:35,170
natural. 
So is war. 

863
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:39,410
So is it expanded because you 
need to convince your people? 

864
00:53:39,890 --> 00:53:42,470
Yeah. 
That it's somebody else's fault 

865
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:44,630
and that's how you do it. 
So all of these things are 

866
00:53:44,630 --> 00:53:46,470
natural out of the existing 
system. 

867
00:53:46,470 --> 00:53:49,910
I just kind of said, OK, why am 
I even talking about that? 

868
00:53:49,910 --> 00:53:53,950
Let's just move to to how fast 
we can build the parallel system

869
00:53:54,390 --> 00:53:57,990
with way better benefits and so,
so billions of people can move 

870
00:53:57,990 --> 00:54:00,750
on. 
Yeah, I fully agree. 

871
00:54:00,750 --> 00:54:04,350
I think it's also because those 
are the things that people see 

872
00:54:04,670 --> 00:54:08,070
also see perhaps right. 
So it's it's like you can ignore

873
00:54:08,070 --> 00:54:11,430
it, but perhaps addressing it. 
Well, maybe if you address it, 

874
00:54:11,430 --> 00:54:14,390
you legitimize it. 
But it's a it's a thin line, 

875
00:54:14,390 --> 00:54:14,830
right? 
Was. 

876
00:54:14,950 --> 00:54:17,390
It was somebody came, somebody 
came to me to the same question 

877
00:54:17,390 --> 00:54:22,230
on a conference that that way is
it we can same so so and 

878
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:26,150
effectively as a reason not to 
get into Bitcoin and I and I and

879
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:31,110
I said OK, so your reason for 
not getting into Bitcoin is 

880
00:54:31,230 --> 00:54:35,110
you're fearful that governments 
will stop you from getting into 

881
00:54:35,110 --> 00:54:38,080
Bitcoin. 
And and and you're going to wait

882
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,200
for them to do that? 
I said, like, they are still, 

883
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,280
like, it's so insane, right? 
So, so in other words, you're 

884
00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:48,800
making that happen through your 
actions and while they're 

885
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,560
screaming at you and they're 
saying get out of the burning 

886
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,360
building right now because we're
going to lock up your money 

887
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,810
forever. 
And and they're staying stuck 

888
00:54:58,850 --> 00:55:02,330
out of fear of the thing and out
of fear of the thing that saves 

889
00:55:02,330 --> 00:55:04,010
them from it. 
It's so. 

890
00:55:04,250 --> 00:55:07,170
I do understand, though, some 
people will do that, but. 

891
00:55:07,570 --> 00:55:09,770
But it's crazy. 
Yeah. 

892
00:55:10,370 --> 00:55:12,930
All right, last question. 
I ask everyone the same 

893
00:55:13,050 --> 00:55:15,570
question. 
What's the core belief that you 

894
00:55:15,570 --> 00:55:19,170
will never let go? 
Oh, I got lots of those. 

895
00:55:19,170 --> 00:55:25,340
But but I would say integrity. 
And and why I say and why I say 

896
00:55:25,340 --> 00:55:30,740
that is I used to this was a 
core belief in my business and 

897
00:55:30,780 --> 00:55:34,420
and finance and a bunch of 
financiers said that can't be a 

898
00:55:34,420 --> 00:55:38,060
core belief because everybody 
has to have that in business. 

899
00:55:38,060 --> 00:55:43,060
And I said it if it and I 
believe a core belief is 

900
00:55:43,060 --> 00:55:47,180
something you'd stand up for no 
matter what, even if you lost 

901
00:55:47,180 --> 00:55:52,850
everything and and. 
And and I said back to them. 

902
00:55:52,850 --> 00:55:56,650
I said, I said if everyone had 
that in business the world would

903
00:55:56,650 --> 00:56:02,370
look very different and so and 
so that that that would be one 

904
00:56:02,370 --> 00:56:06,050
of curiosity is another. 
Empathy is another. 

905
00:56:06,050 --> 00:56:09,450
But thanks. 
Thanks for sharing. 

906
00:56:10,330 --> 00:56:11,930
Yeah, I really enjoyed this 
conversation. 

907
00:56:11,930 --> 00:56:15,770
Thanks also again for coming on 
what's the what's the best way 

908
00:56:15,810 --> 00:56:18,850
that people who don't know you 
yet where they can follow you 

909
00:56:19,010 --> 00:56:23,570
and and read your thoughts? 
Probably just my website, 

910
00:56:23,570 --> 00:56:25,850
jeffbooth.ca. 
And the reason I say that 

911
00:56:25,850 --> 00:56:27,890
specifically too is too many 
people. 

912
00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:31,250
There's too many scammers out 
there that are using different. 

913
00:56:31,410 --> 00:56:35,210
I'm not on Instagram, I'm not on
Facebook, Other different 

914
00:56:35,210 --> 00:56:36,890
things. 
So they're taking copies. 

915
00:56:37,210 --> 00:56:43,530
If my profile isn't listed on my
site and my social media 

916
00:56:43,530 --> 00:56:46,410
profile, then it's not me, so 
beware. 

917
00:56:46,530 --> 00:56:49,250
So, so jeffbooth.ca is probably 
best. 

918
00:56:50,050 --> 00:56:51,730
Great. 
Yeah. 

919
00:56:51,730 --> 00:56:54,530
Keep in touch and perhaps we 
talk again. 

920
00:56:55,010 --> 00:56:57,010
You bet, Bram. 
Thanks, I hope you enjoyed this 

921
00:56:57,050 --> 00:56:58,890
episode. 
If you did, it would be amazing 

922
00:56:58,890 --> 00:57:01,730
if you could rate, review and 
subscribe on the podcast 

923
00:57:01,730 --> 00:57:04,660
platform of your choice. 
It will help us educate more 

924
00:57:04,660 --> 00:57:06,740
millennials on the importance of
Bitcoin. 

925
00:57:07,020 --> 00:57:08,780
You can follow and connect with 
me on Twitter. 

926
00:57:08,780 --> 00:57:11,420
I'm Bronke. 
That's at Bramk. 

927
00:57:11,980 --> 00:57:14,140
And if you are or know someone 
who has an interesting 

928
00:57:14,140 --> 00:57:16,580
perspective on Bitcoin that's 
worth sharing, hit me up. 

929
00:57:16,940 --> 00:57:18,700
I read and reply to every single
message. 

930
00:57:18,980 --> 00:57:21,460
I appreciate your support and 
hope you'll be here for the next

931
00:57:21,460 --> 00:57:22,940
episode. 
Thanks for listening. 

932
00:57:23,220 --> 00:57:23,460
Bye.