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All right, this is Prom Constant
and you're listening to Bitcoin 

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for Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 

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most relevant technology that 
you should understand and adopt.

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In this episode, I'm joined by 
Tim Niemeyer. 

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He's a Bitcoin advocate and 
author who began his Bitcoin 

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journey in 2018. 
As a former US Air Force 

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avionics technician, he brings a
unique technological insight to 

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the Bitcoin space, and he's also
enriched by his educational 

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background, holding a degree in 
psychology and having experience

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as an elementary teacher. 
His recently published book 

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History Echoes Bitcoin, connects
historical parallels to the core

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properties of Bitcoin, and we 
are going to talk about that and

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more in this episode. 
Welcome, Tim. 

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Thank you for having me, Brown. 
Thanks for coming on. 

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I absolutely loved your book. 
Thanks for presenting it to me. 

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We already talked of Mike, but I
think just the the angle that 

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you chose already makes this 
like a great read for people 

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and. 
You cut out this like how, how, 

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how did your book came about? 
Like why? 

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Why did you write it? 
How did that? 

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What's the story behind it? 
I actually never intended to 

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write a book. 
I was just enjoying being a shit

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poster on Twitter like everybody
else. 

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And and going through Bitcoin, 
I, I got to a point where I 

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started to have those higher 
realizations. 

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You know, you get the 21 
million, you get the different, 

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the basic concepts. 
But then when you start putting 

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all that together, you see 
things a different way. 

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And once I had the idea for this
book, it was just like I kind of

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got to write it. 
I have to, and So what? 

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What do you want people to take 
away from it? 

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From this book that there are. 
Have been arcs throughout 

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history basically on the 
properties that Bitcoin 

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represents. 
So permissionlessness, gaining 

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consensus, decentralization, 
trust, minimization, censorship,

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resistance, open source, 
collaboration, immutability and 

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scarcity. 
Each one of those things 

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throughout history has shown to 
be beneficial to society in 

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their own way, and we see 
history yearning for all of 

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these. 
And they're all kind of 

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coalescing in Bitcoin. 
And that's the overreaching take

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away I want people to start to 
see. 

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That's that's my realization 
that I had just a year or so 

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ago. 
I love that you say that like 

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it's it's yesterday I had a 
recording of of a previous 

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episode with with Mitchell Askew
and it's it's so interesting 

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that what you just said is very 
big, right? 

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Like all these things from 
history, they are coming 

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together in Bitcoin and I think 
bitcoiners often talk like that.

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But you know and and if you're 
if you're standing on the 

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sideline and you're looking at 
this and then you could think 

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like oh these guys are propping 
this up and they're talking like

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this. 
But the the the realization, the

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constant realization I almost 
want to say is that like a lot 

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of these things are actually 
true and happening. 

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And so I feel that a lot of 
things that are said in the 

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Bitcoin space are not really 
opinions, right. 

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They are just kind of like 
discoveries from research that 

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different people did in 
different dimensions and from 

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different point of views, right?
It's like, yeah, this is just my

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conclusion. 
It's not really an opinion, 

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almost. 
And and you almost have to hyper

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focus on all these little things
to you know the whole don't 

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trust verify kind of got got to 
do it on your own and zoom. 

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But then the realization comes 
when you're able to zoom out and

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not have such that like hyper 
focus and when you start to 

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start to zoom out more than you 
see how the all these things 

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come together. 
For the trees concept, yeah, 

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yeah, yeah. 
And so how do you think you have

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a really diverse background, 
which which I just mentioned, 

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right. 
Like in in the Air Force, 

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psychology. 
Music. 

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Also your elementary teacher, 
like, how? 

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How did this combination of all 
these experiences help you like 

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approach but eventually also 
understand Bitcoin well? 

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Let's add in farmer My dad. 
My father's a farmer retired 

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farmer now. 
Oh cool. 

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And I started out a few years 
farm on the farm hand and as a 

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farm hand and I was like, well, 
I could choose to do this, but I

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could also go to see the world 
chose the Air Force got to live 

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in Japan for a couple years get 
a perspective there. 

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I could have stayed in for 20 
years ago to retirement, or I 

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could have gone out and. 
I got my, got my college paid 

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for it. 
Thank you for paying your taxes,

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you know, not you, but you know 
what I mean? 

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So I did that and then I got a 
psychology and I was like, you 

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know, want to help the world. 
So instead of talking smack, 

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doing something about it. 
So education made sense. 

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I like kids. 
I like teaching. 

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So I tried that and I've been a 
musician kind of throughout, a 

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guitarist, you know, very 
average at best. 

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And. 
And then just a few years ago, 

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4-5 years ago, I had the 
opportunity to become the 

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elementary music teacher. 
So all grade levels. 

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So it's it's just one of those 
things of like it's not so much 

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getting bored with something, 
but it's like oh, a new 

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opportunity, let's try this, 
hey, let's try that and just 

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try. 
It's the things that kept my 

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interest. 
So that in doing that, that gave

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me a the ability to see a lot of
different perspectives. 

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Like I said, my time in Japan, 
that was amazing. 

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It was very eye opening. 
We were talking before about 

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like different cultures and that
was a culture I found so 

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interesting, so fascinating, 
very respectful and and it was 

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more of that shock of like hey, 
the what I've seen like for 

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example, like level of 
disrespect in culture. 

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You know it it's different from 
culture to culture or level of 

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respect I guess you could say. 
And then being so respectful 

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kind of shocked me to say, oh, 
there could be different ways of

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doing things. 
You know what I'm saying? 

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Isn't it in Japan also that is, 
it's also about honor, right? 

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Like when I hope this example is
right. 

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But this always stuck with me 
that, you know, if someone 

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starts a restaurant, for 
example, right, like the honor, 

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like, like they promised that 
they will do their best and 

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create the best restaurant that 
they can create, right. 

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And if then they have bad 
reviews and or people don't like

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it, then they just quit because 
that's their honor. 

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Like they promised that they 
would do the best they could. 

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And if people didn't like it, 
then they just quit, even though

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it might be a good business or 
something, you know, that honor 

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is very high. 
And so I don't know, like, I 

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hope this is true because I love
it as an example. 

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But what's like the now that 
you're back for a lot of years 

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already? 
Like what what? 

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What do you think about America 
now? 

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That's a very big question. 
What do I think about as a 

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country? 
But like, how is it going now? 

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Also, let's combine it with, you
know, the whole, the whole 

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Bitcoin point of view also, 
right? 

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Like I think Bitcoin, once you 
go into that, it opens your mind

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as well and you find like other 
topics that you never looked at 

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before, you know. 
So I think it gives you like a 

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critical new viewpoint. 
Absolutely. 

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And and going back to like 
looking for new opportunities as

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you go along, Bitcoin kind of 
just fell in my lap and it gave 

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me even more perspective. 
And in terms of like societally,

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like the one thing I see now 
that I just can't Unsee is time 

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preference and its effects on 
society. 

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And I'm sure that's not just in 
in America, you know what I 

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mean? 
It's kind of everywhere the the 

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high time preference mindset 
which. 

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We believe is brought on through
you know inflation or the 

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effects of inflation. 
To see society so immediate 

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needs like poverty mindset like 
I need this right now as opposed

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to the I'm going to sell my 
chairs concept of living for 

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Bitcoin. 
You know it. 

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There's such a stark contrast. 
The people who listened to the 

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previous episode will hear 
again. 

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I talked to Mitchell. 
He's 23. 

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He showed me his His office is a
desk, a chair and a computer, 

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and his bedroom is is a bed, One
bed, and he has one chair in his

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living room. 
He's literally doing what you 

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just said, what you just said. 
We both have plants in our 

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background. 
We're to live in the high life, 

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I guess. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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Yeah, I think so. 
Not true. 

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Bit corners you know sell your 
plants well. 

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But it's interesting this it's 
also people are kind of like 

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unknowingly forced into this 
short time preference lifestyle 

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almost right A and and I don't 
think it's only with in in like 

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from a consumerism angle or that
people want things when they 

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want it but it's also in in 
discourse right. 

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Like it's like yes or no, good 
or bad. 

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You know, like people don't 
really think about, I don't 

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know, like 2 opposing arguments 
can be both be true, right? 

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Or both be bad or not true. 
That's critical thinking skills 

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right there. 
You know what I mean? 

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Yeah, exactly. 
And so I find it difficult to 

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see that people act really 
engaged or virtuous. 

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But they are doing that on the 
basis of information that's just

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been shoved down their trucks 
basically and they doesn't seem 

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that they actually did that 
work. 

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Sometimes you're considerably 
younger than I Do you can you 

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remember yourself pre Bitcoin? 
Because I know I can, and I know

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I I live. 
And I lived a lot of that high 

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time preference lifestyle. 
Yes. 

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Yes. 
Like, holy. 

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Well, I have 20 pairs of 
sneakers. 

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And now I don't buy sneakers 
anymore. 

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No. 
But it's like that. 

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It's I I said this in a previous
episode. 

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And also one of the reasons why 
I, I focus on millennials. 

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Like I was 30 and working at a 
bank. 

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I had a mortgage and then a 
colleague was like and I was 

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already into Bitcoin. 
So that was like a weird thing. 

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And a colleague said, did did 
you know that money in the bank 

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is not yours? 
And I said, sorry, what? 

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Yeah. 
And then he explained to me And 

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then I just felt like an idiot. 
I was like, I'm participating in

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something that I totally do not 
understand how it works, right? 

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And and it's I think less about 
fully understanding how it 

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works. 
But going from zero 

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understanding to a very 
important understanding that the

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money in the bank is not yours 
was just a really big shocker. 

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And as you just asked me, like 
the time before Bitcoin really 

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clicked, you know, after a few 
times, Yeah. 

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I I honestly think, like, where 
was I? 

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Like, what was I thinking? 
Like, maybe I was lucky that I 

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was in a safe Western country, 
that I didn't die along the way,

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right? 
Like, sometimes that's really 

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how I feel. 
Like, where was my mind? 

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Like, where was I at? 
Was I even paying attention? 

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Or was I just luck? 
Yeah. 

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Like, am I lucky that I'm still 
alive or something? 

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Like, maybe that's too big. 
But sometimes I really I get 

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about it like that. 
Well, your listenership might 

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not understand this concept, but
I used to have like. 

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CDs Did you guys, did you have 
like, of course. 

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I'm pretty 6. 
Cool, cool. 

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I'm going on 46 this month, so 
OK, OK, well, but I had CDs too.

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I had so many like like jazz and
Blues and funk and just all 

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types of genres, just boxes and 
boxes of them and I can't find 

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them now. 
My mom might have thrown them 

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away, I don't know. 
Yeah, it's like all the money 

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and time now. 
It's music. 

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And that filled my soul, don't 
get me wrong, but just the idea 

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of just buying, buying, buying, 
buying. 

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Just consumerism. 
Consumerism is a big part of 

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this whole thing. 
Yeah. 

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Well, maybe this is a nice jump 
to to the things that you talk 

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about in the book, because I've 
talked a lot about kind of like 

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philosophical angle on Bitcoin 
in this podcast. 

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But I like that you in in your 
book like you touch upon ethical

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considerations for Bitcoin. 
Like can you can you explain a 

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00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:35,930
bit about that? 
Give me an example of what 

229
00:12:35,930 --> 00:12:37,810
you're checking. 
When you say ethical, you're 

230
00:12:37,810 --> 00:12:44,080
talking more like that, that how
a society could improve with the

231
00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,440
changes that Bitcoin can bring 
and how well, maybe it's also 

232
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,440
kind of connects to what we just
talked about, like just the 

233
00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:53,760
information asymmetry also, 
right? 

234
00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,840
For well, let's focus on like 1 
Aspect 1 property of Bitcoin, 

235
00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,000
right? 
Yeah, I have a few I want to 

236
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,080
talk about. 
We could take permissionless, 

237
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,040
take permissionlessness, yeah, 
Yeah. 

238
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,360
So you draw in the book, there's
a comparison between between 

239
00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,920
like the less permissions South 
Korea and then North Korea. 

240
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,560
Right. 
Where you kind of like 

241
00:13:14,560 --> 00:13:18,520
illustrate, yeah, a 
permissionless system versus you

242
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,840
have to have permission. 
I put that in there and that's 

243
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,000
one of the few like it wasn't 
like a historical event. 

244
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,040
It was just more of like a 
snapshot of comparison. 

245
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,600
But what are the results of 
living a permission versus a 

246
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:37,000
permissionless lifestyle? 
And for those of you guys know, 

247
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,080
North Korea? 
It is going to be the more 

248
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,240
permissioned side, the more 
authoritarian side. 

249
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,760
Simple things like travel, like 
if you want to travel, you know 

250
00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:55,280
one terminal airport and you can
only go to two places and go to 

251
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:59,320
China or somewhere else maybe, I
don't know. 

252
00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:04,760
One of those things, South 
Korea, it's going to be more 

253
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:09,640
freedom laden, the. 
Education is better, the food is

254
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:14,720
better, the ability to own your 
own house is better. 

255
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,840
The list goes on and on. 
You can have a passport to let 

256
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:20,880
and travel anywhere in the 
world. 

257
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:27,200
It just permissionlessness 
breeds freedom, yeah, like 

258
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:30,680
freedom to participate in in the
systems, right? 

259
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:36,240
The economic systems and but 
that freedom and economic 

260
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,840
system. 
Frees up the ability in social 

261
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:42,960
systems and you know 
relationships and so many 

262
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:47,520
different factors of life. 
So the opposite of permission is

263
00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,520
permissionlessness, is 
permissioned and the opposite of

264
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,080
freedom is what? 
So just in that concept right 

265
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:59,760
there, comparison of Korea, is 
it the ethical stance, you know 

266
00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,520
is that we should be aiming for 
permissionlessness? 

267
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,800
And how can we do that? 
Our current system, our current 

268
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,160
financial system controls our 
ability to conduct ourselves 

269
00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:17,160
freely because of all of the 
controls that we have currently 

270
00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,600
on money. 
Because the small few, the the 

271
00:15:20,600 --> 00:15:26,400
percentage of people with power 
that they're able to control 

272
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,480
that system and gain more power 
and they do that through a 

273
00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:35,000
permission system. 
Yeah, well, it's even down down 

274
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,200
to the level of if if you call 
your bank and say I want to get,

275
00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,400
I don't know, maybe 10K cash, 
they will ask you questions, 

276
00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:44,640
right? 
So there's no there's no freedom

277
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,280
to get what you own. 
In the sense your money in the 

278
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:48,760
bank and there is no money in 
the bank. 

279
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:53,320
So like you said, yeah, no. 
But is that, that is you know if

280
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,240
we look at the application of 
Bitcoin, the the 

281
00:15:55,240 --> 00:16:00,920
permissionlessness versus the 
the permission system, right, 

282
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:05,360
where yes, you have to call the 
bank to get money from a certain

283
00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,680
amount and they will ask you 
what you're going to use it for.

284
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:13,200
And well, if they deem that not 
good enough or not the good 

285
00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,880
enough explanation, then perhaps
you're not getting the money 

286
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,960
right like that that really, 
ethically that goes against your

287
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,160
individual well. 
Freedom. 

288
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,680
And yeah, the banks are 
basically the, you know, 

289
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:30,000
financial watchdog, you know? 
Part of the political system. 

290
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,800
Now they can just, why would 
they ask you that in the 1st 

291
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:33,840
place? 
Because they want to know. 

292
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,960
And if they want to know, they 
get to choose whether that's OK 

293
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,760
or not. 
So yeah, there's these videos of

294
00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,040
this guy, I think it's in 
Australia and he just walks into

295
00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:47,760
the bank and he says I want to 
draw like, I don't know, 10 or 

296
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,400
20,000, like Australian dollars 
from my account. 

297
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,640
And then they say, OK, what? 
What do you want to use it for? 

298
00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,520
And he just gives them like 
crazy reasons, like the 

299
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,840
stupidest reasons, whatever. 
And then and then you see these 

300
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,120
people, they are just doing 
their job obviously. 

301
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:05,359
But that's also part of the 
problem in a sense. 

302
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,400
You know if we think back about 
how oblivious were we, you know,

303
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,119
like everyone needs a job, 
everyone needs a roof, everyone 

304
00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,200
needs food, right? 
So those those are like the 

305
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,599
first things that you focus on. 
But then when you are like at 

306
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:21,240
the outskirts of the system that
is preventing other people from 

307
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,960
having their personal freedom, 
right, Like accessing the wealth

308
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,319
or the the money energy that 
they that they gathered that's 

309
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,560
in the bank. 
Like you, you don't, you know, 

310
00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:36,760
these people also don't know 
what they are contributing to, 

311
00:17:36,760 --> 00:17:38,720
of course. 
But it's just really interesting

312
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:41,480
that he asks them then like why 
do you want to know? 

313
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,960
And then they say, yeah, that's 
just our protocol and like, they

314
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,120
don't. 
There's of course not really a 

315
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:51,440
discussion, but it's just 
interesting to see how people 

316
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,720
just operate without, I don't 
want to say, like all the 

317
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,560
information or enough 
information or something like 

318
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,600
it's, yeah. 
And that kind of goes back to 

319
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,960
that perspective we were talking
earlier and that's how how the 

320
00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,400
scope of what you're looking at 
because yeah, you got to zoom in

321
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,120
on certain parts to understand 
you know the inner workings, but

322
00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:14,320
you don't gain that until you 
zoom out. 

323
00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:19,000
And and to me in a way, the 
zooming in is that high time 

324
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,840
preference is the result of 
being a high time preference 

325
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:26,000
mindset. 
Yeah, yeah, well, And if the 

326
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,760
people at the counter would zoom
out and maybe ask like 

327
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:33,440
themselves, like why am I asking
this person what they want to do

328
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,760
with their own money, maybe 
that's already a little threat 

329
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,360
for them to explore further, to 
try and figure out like, what's 

330
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,640
what am I actually. 
If there's some cognitive, 

331
00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:44,400
cognitive dissonance going on 
there. 

332
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,600
Yeah. 
You always, you always wonder. 

333
00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,680
Yeah, yeah yeah. 
Another another aspect that you 

334
00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,000
touch is is decentralization. 
You mentioned the quote 

335
00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:59,800
centralization as a system is 
inconsistent with a non violent 

336
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,480
structure of society. 
How does the principle of 

337
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,920
decentralization in Bitcoin 
contribute to a non violent 

338
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:10,840
societal structure? 
Like, what's? 

339
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,440
What's the difference here? 
One thing I learned about a lot 

340
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,400
of in researching these books is
there's a lot of crossover. 

341
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,400
So the permissionlessness is the
permission system is able to 

342
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,120
succeed because it is 
centralized, right? 

343
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,280
Because there's that. 
Not only is there a single point

344
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,680
of failure, there's one entry 
point. 

345
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,360
You know, what did George Carlin
say? 

346
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:38,640
It's like it's a big club and 
you ain't in it, you're not in 

347
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:39,600
it, yeah. 
Yeah. 

348
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:42,720
So it's a good bit, right? 
Oh, I see. 

349
00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:47,600
Great. 
But decentralization if you can 

350
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:54,760
actually implement it. 
You know, without fail it stops 

351
00:19:54,760 --> 00:20:00,280
the whole permissionlessness. 
Now if if we have the 

352
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,280
optionality to choose. 
So if you and I wanted to do 

353
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:08,360
business and our bank said no, 
we could go say, you know, piss 

354
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,360
off bank and we can work 
together. 

355
00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:13,720
That's the centralization in 
action on the small scale. 

356
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,880
Yeah, they have force over us 
because they are the only ones 

357
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:24,480
who control the access, right. 
And so when it's decentralized, 

358
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:28,440
it's kind of like the other way 
around like you can only play if

359
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,720
you follow the rules as as the, 
how would you say that like the 

360
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,160
enabler of what is happening 
with with the money in that 

361
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,160
network, right. 
So it kind of turns it around. 

362
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,960
Are you Are you a sports guy? 
Do you? 

363
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,080
Is there a certain sport you 
like? 

364
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:49,040
I want to say I golf, but I 
don't know if that'll help. 

365
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:49,760
Sure. 
Example. 

366
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,120
No, that analogy is just doesn't
make sense at all. 

367
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,120
Well, I mean. 
But like, so I'm a baseball guy.

368
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,960
My son's 10 and he's loving 
baseball and growing up, so I'm 

369
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,720
coaching it and just loving it 
all over again. 

370
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,240
Imagine if we're playing 
baseball and my team against 

371
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,800
your team and I am not only the 
player, not only the coach, the 

372
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,600
manager, but I'm also the 
umpire. 

373
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:19,760
And the rule maker and the 
scorekeeper and I can change any

374
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:23,280
one of those aspects to benefit 
myself. 

375
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,040
Now you would hope somebody with
upstanding, you know, moral 

376
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,200
structure would not. 
But that's just not the world we

377
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,320
live in. 
You know, people are make 

378
00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:38,600
decisions based on incentives. 
It's an incentive based world. 

379
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:42,360
So if you have the ability in a 
game to make all those changes. 

380
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,960
You got to think this someone 
will do. 

381
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,200
The population is the population
is going to do that, right? 

382
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,960
Yeah. 
And decentralization keeps that 

383
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:54,640
from happening. 
It keeps that ability to make 

384
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,440
permissions, keeps that in 
check. 

385
00:21:56,680 --> 00:22:00,080
Yeah, well, and you can try to 
mess around with it, but then 

386
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,760
you are just rejected by. 
And they find out, Yeah, yeah, 

387
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:04,960
by the network, right? 
Yeah. 

388
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:10,440
So it's it's also less, less 
obscurity in a sense, right 

389
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:14,520
because you have to follow the 
rules that the, the, the 

390
00:22:14,520 --> 00:22:18,080
decentralized group agree to and
once you don't then yeah you 

391
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,520
cannot just participate anymore.
All right. 

392
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:23,920
And and to tie that back into 
what you mentioned about like 

393
00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:29,120
the the the violence and non 
violence is basically you know 

394
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,240
is that about like a state 
having a monopoly on violence? 

395
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,360
Or or what do you mean control? 
Like how? 

396
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,320
How is it enforced? 
Obviously Bitcoin is enforced 

397
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,880
through energy, right? 
Proof of work. 

398
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,320
Where? 
How is the Fiat system enforced?

399
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:51,880
Eventually, and this is not to 
get too like fire and brimstone,

400
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,680
but eventually it comes down to 
force. 

401
00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,560
If you don't pay your taxes, 
what are they going to do? 

402
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:59,360
You know they'll come and get 
you if you, you know, if you 

403
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,640
don't follow their rules, they 
will apply force. 

404
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,080
So to me, that's violence. 
Yeah and and a non violent 

405
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,920
society is is basically a a 
voluntary society where you can 

406
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,840
also depending more on the 
others in the society. 

407
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,720
Well, because the others also 
and and you know we said humans 

408
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,280
are make decisions based off 
incentives. 

409
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:28,720
So in a in a voluntary society, 
the IT, the incentive is to act 

410
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,840
well, be good to one another 
because it reciprocates in a 

411
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:37,720
permission society. 
In in that centralized society, 

412
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,880
that violence society, we're all
just kind of like this is where 

413
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,840
actually I think politics comes 
into play. 

414
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:45,640
We're all just fighting for that
control. 

415
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,640
So I can change the rules to 
make you do what I say. 

416
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,200
So I can exactly, yeah. 
So to not be dependent anymore 

417
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,160
on whoever is in charge, right? 
In decentralized, in the 

418
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,400
decentralized manner, you are 
all in charge. 

419
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:00,680
So you are dependent. 
Everyone is dependent on the 

420
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:02,840
other. 
It's not like one party is 

421
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:07,720
dependent on the other, right? 
I think I want to say it right. 

422
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:13,120
I think like the perfect like 
size for like a like a a a 

423
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:18,000
barter society, like a localized
society where where this is 

424
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,400
optimized. 
I think it's 150 or 250. 

425
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,880
People, I've heard that Dunbar 
number, the Dunbar number, I 

426
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:29,920
think it's 250 two $0.50, right?
So where everyone contributes 

427
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:33,800
their own thing and they are all
dependent on each other, there 

428
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,520
is no said, well maybe there's 
an elder or something but they 

429
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,920
are not the central ruler that 
controls what everyone needs to 

430
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,120
do, right? 
And there is only like 1 

431
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,120
sentence for not doing your 
part, it's that you're kicked 

432
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:55,000
out of the group basically. 
So the the the social cohesion 

433
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:56,560
and everyone doing their part 
right. 

434
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,880
Like if you get the food in the 
in the jungle and you come back 

435
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:04,000
home and there and and the 
dinner is made by someone else 

436
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:05,960
and someone else fixed fixed the
hole in your roof. 

437
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,440
You know then you all 
contributed to you know that 

438
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,240
that that that group in a sense 
that's there you are all the 

439
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,200
people know that once they do 
they not they don't do their 

440
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,880
little part they can be exiled 
from the group and that's just 

441
00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:22,760
that's that's just the only rule
right. 

442
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:27,080
So even if you try to mess 
around, a lot of people will 

443
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,640
just, you know, hold you up 
against the that rule. 

444
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,480
That reminds me of one of the 
things I wrote about the ground 

445
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:39,960
Grand Council of Six Nations. 
So Northeast American Native 

446
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:46,520
Americans, before the United 
States became a country, they 

447
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,080
were six different tribes and 
they basically followed the 

448
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,560
simple idea that we're going to 
protect each other. 

449
00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:59,160
From foreign invaders. 
But we're also going to let each

450
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,800
other make our own rules. 
We're all you know, I don't tell

451
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,040
you what to do. 
You don't tell me what to do. 

452
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,720
But hey, if we're getting 
attacked, let's back each other,

453
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,400
yeah? 
That's about as simple as you 

454
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:10,080
can get. 
In fact, the United States. 

455
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,440
Ben Franklin brought them in to 
say this should be a model of 

456
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,320
our Constitution. 
Yeah. 

457
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,840
Oh, the Dunbar number, by the 
way, is 150. 

458
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:24,080
It is 150, OK, yes. 
And it's the amount of also 

459
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,160
social relations that yes, you 
can have, right? 

460
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,600
Which supports the grand 
Council, which supports localism

461
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,200
and and in a way, Bitcoin allows
for localism on a global scale 

462
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,480
as opposed to the whole 
centralization, you know, model 

463
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,640
of like one global political you
know, order. 

464
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,960
Yeah, whatever. 
Yeah, we're allowed to just 

465
00:26:49,120 --> 00:26:51,600
interact freely. 
Crazy thought. 

466
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:55,240
Yeah. 
Well, the next one I wanted to 

467
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,360
talk about is about trust 
minimization, right. 

468
00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:02,760
So the trustlessness of Bitcoin,
which, you know, the 

469
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:08,040
permissionlessness is about, no 
one has to give you access to 

470
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,440
participate, right? 
Like anyone can participate. 

471
00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,360
And the trustlessness is about 
you don't have to trust anyone, 

472
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,080
any person, which is a good 
thing, right? 

473
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,480
And you use my thought it was a 
really cool example you use, you

474
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:27,920
use like the Navajo code talkers
in in World War 2 and that was 

475
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,320
like a method of trust 
minimization. 

476
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,800
And in Bitcoin it's kind of used
in a similar way. 

477
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:39,040
Why is this? 
Why do you see this as as 

478
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,640
crucial to to Bitcoin and and 
why did you chose this this 

479
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,880
example? 
Trying to remember back to that 

480
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:50,920
SO. 
Like I was saying earlier, the 

481
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:54,800
arc of history trying to move 
towards all of these different 

482
00:27:54,800 --> 00:28:00,440
properties simultaneously 
speaking Trusk is easily broken 

483
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:03,920
and it has been repeatedly 
throughout history, right. 

484
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,440
So what I chose this example to 
kind of like illustrate, hey, 

485
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:17,200
it's early cryptography, right? 
A lot of people outside of 

486
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,120
Bitcoin here. 
You know, the cryptography, they

487
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:23,840
think crypto or cryptocurrency, 
and it's got a completely 

488
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,600
different definition. 
But cryptography in and of 

489
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,040
itself is just language, right? 
It's just math and code, right? 

490
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,200
Yeah. 
So the Navajo Indians basically 

491
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:39,520
were able to translate during 
the war into their own language,

492
00:28:39,520 --> 00:28:42,240
which was completely different 
than any other language at the 

493
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,400
time. 
So it was basically unbreakable.

494
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,280
Yeah. 
It was used as a way to send 

495
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,360
messages, right? 
Especially I think in the 

496
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,800
Pacific correct activity of the 
US. 

497
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,720
World War 2, right? 
World War Two, yeah, Yeah. 

498
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:04,400
So just having that component 
and see, the thing about Bitcoin

499
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:11,080
to me is each and of them in and
of themselves are necessary. 

500
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,400
But the magic sauce, the sweet 
sauce, is where everything 

501
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,920
actually is put together and 
works together. 

502
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:18,920
You can't have one without the 
other. 

503
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:20,600
Yeah. 
And that's kind of what we 

504
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:22,760
discovered over the last, you 
know, altcoin cycle. 

505
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:24,840
Yeah, well, that's the 
discovery. 

506
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,280
That is Bitcoin, right? 
The discovery like the 

507
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,320
combination of all these aspects
working together. 

508
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:32,800
Basically, I I've been fighting 
back and forth like to really 

509
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,680
understand the whole is it a 
discovery, is it an invention 

510
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,360
thing? 
And yeah, because that's that's 

511
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,640
not very intuitive, intuitive, 
and most people you know. 

512
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:45,440
Kind of just, I don't know, but 
I'm leaning more and basically 

513
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:48,040
and like on what you said, it is
a discovery because like 

514
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,520
inventions you can invent more 
things and put more bells and 

515
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,080
whistles on. 
Yeah, it's about the combination

516
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:56,320
of it is, it's like the 
accidental discovery of 

517
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:01,720
penicillin or LSD or you know, 
like like these things were also

518
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:03,760
accident. 
Yeah, accidental. 

519
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,120
This is this was on purpose, but
it's a discovery. 

520
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:12,200
I think the engineering part in 
Bitcoin is about that. 

521
00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:16,360
Satoshi figured out how all 
these things fit together to 

522
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:26,280
actually provide, you know what 
what he wanted to create. 

523
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:31,320
Imagine, yeah, imagine Satoshi's
low time preference and his 

524
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,040
ability to zoom out to see how 
all those parts and pieces fit 

525
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:35,720
together. 
Because I agree that that was 

526
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:40,040
his like. 
There was he, he, he added a few

527
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:43,000
things, components that were 
very necessary, that had yet to 

528
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:47,120
be implemented, But just that 
ability to zoom out and say I 

529
00:30:47,120 --> 00:30:49,680
need every single one of these 
in order for the whole thing to 

530
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,880
work, that That's the brilliance
right there, and also that these

531
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:01,360
inventions were spread out over 
over a pretty large time. 4050 

532
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,920
years, something like that. 
Yeah, exactly. 

533
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:03,440
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

534
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Yeah. 
And so the trustlessness in 

535
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,440
Bitcoin, I find this a really 
interesting word, actually, 

536
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:12,920
right? 
Because it ties into what you 

537
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,560
just said and talked about this 
in the last episode as well, 

538
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:18,480
right? 
Like any proposed system that is

539
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:22,120
potentially corruptible will be 
corrupted by someone who wants 

540
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,920
to do that right? 
Even if you think I would never 

541
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,360
do that if I were in that 
position like you, you, you know

542
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,280
it's going to happen. 
The incentives matter. 

543
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,360
I, I like, I like to say, you 
know how everybody says Bitcoin 

544
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,960
fixes this And I've said that 
many times myself, I I tend to 

545
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,520
learn more. 
Now to Bitcoin incentivizes this

546
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,560
because it's a system in place 
and people act differently based

547
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,920
on different incentives and the 
and the incentives are aligned 

548
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,240
in this system. 
So why wouldn't you want to 

549
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,560
adopt it? 
Yeah, it gives you a very like a

550
00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,480
great rationale I think to also 
compare to like current system 

551
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,320
and and like a possible future 
system, right. 

552
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:06,520
Like if you want to move towards
Bitcoin because what you just 

553
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,840
said about what we talked about 
like the the the teller at the 

554
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,960
bank who asks you a question 
about like why are you using 

555
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:18,120
this money? 
She's she's like on the 

556
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:25,760
permission part, but you have to
trust that that policy came from

557
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:32,040
somewhere that is, well, helpful
to a citizen like you, right? 

558
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:37,440
You have to trust that that was 
created for a good cause, 

559
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:39,120
basically. 
And what is that? 

560
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,440
You don't even have the choice, 
I wanted to add. 

561
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:43,120
You don't have the choice to 
trust them. 

562
00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,520
You just have to follow along 
basically. 

563
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,040
But that leads to like. 
If you think like brain science 

564
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:52,960
and psychology, when you turn 
that skill off of like the 

565
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,840
analytical skill of is this good
or is this bad or or whatever, 

566
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:01,000
you're also not flexing that 
muscle, so to speak, right. 

567
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:06,320
So it kind of dumbs us down over
time if we're not thinking 

568
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,680
critically about all of these 
different decisions. 

569
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,000
So the the trust model in in 
that regard where you don't even

570
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,840
have the choice to think. 
So I'm not going to think about 

571
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,240
that. 
Yeah, you don't even see the. 

572
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:19,280
Problem. 
Right. 

573
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:20,680
You don't. 
Yeah, exactly. 

574
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,040
Yeah. 
It's like it's just, it's just 

575
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:24,960
the way it is. 
But that's also why I think that

576
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,280
actually when you think about 
the trustlessness of Bitcoin, 

577
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,320
what So the trustlessness in 
Bitcoin basically is you don't 

578
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:35,160
have to trust any other person. 
The only things, two things I 

579
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,880
think you need to trust are the 
protocol. 

580
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,720
So if you understand what the 
protocol is, you know the code 

581
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:47,240
that just you know just is and 
just will work until forever 

582
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,080
basically that's the only thing 
you have to trust, trust the 

583
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,200
code. 
And I think the second thing is 

584
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,680
like you have to trust yourself 
that you're capable of you know 

585
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,800
keeping your own wealth in your 
custody and all these things. 

586
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:02,920
Like I I talked to a lot of 
people about this kind of this 

587
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,960
is like one of the things that 
they find really hard is that 

588
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:07,680
you the whole self custody thing
right. 

589
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,719
Like if I have X amount in 
Bitcoin. 

590
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:14,320
Oh wow, I'm fully responsible. 
Yes, I'm you're fully 

591
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,639
responsible. 
I don't. 

592
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,400
There's no one else coming to 
save me. 

593
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,679
No, there's no one else coming 
to save me, which implies 

594
00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,440
there's also no forced trust. 
But you have to be able to trust

595
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,480
in yourself that you will be 
diligent enough. 

596
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,639
Right. 
Which forces you into a growth 

597
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:28,440
mindset. 
And going back to that, you're 

598
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,000
the reason you're feeling that 
fear is because that part of 

599
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,679
your brain is not, hasn't been 
flexed in a while or in that 

600
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:35,840
way. 
You know, I'm saying yeah, you 

601
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,480
just didn't didn't. 
And you may not have the 

602
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,800
confidence in yourself to be 
like I can do this and and yeah,

603
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,000
after you do it for a while, 
it's like that's not so bad. 

604
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:49,040
You know, I think for most, most
people it's probably more scary 

605
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,120
to trust themselves than to give
give away that that 

606
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,680
responsibility to to be to being
taken care of, basically. 

607
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:03,040
Absolutely. 
So yeah, next thing I was 

608
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,280
censorship resistance. 
And when you talk about 

609
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,800
censorship resistance, you you 
talk about the trial and 

610
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,960
execution of Socrates, which was
a long time ago, but as you 

611
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,600
discussed, right, Like his ideas
didn't really. 

612
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:26,000
You got chaos to say like yeah 
well in in in the real estate 

613
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:30,800
way possible right and this was 
censorship by the state is 

614
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:33,520
basically how you how you 
illustrate it. 

615
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,440
How does the censorship 
resistance of of Bitcoin 

616
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,440
counteract A centralized control
that, you know, we just we just 

617
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,960
talked about? 
So yeah, this book is full of 

618
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:48,560
examples and non examples and to
me this would be the non 

619
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:49,720
example. 
You know what I mean? 

620
00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:56,160
Where that central authority is 
able to censor the, the 

621
00:35:56,160 --> 00:36:00,160
consensus was overridden by the 
few in the room. 

622
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,520
And all he was trying to do was 
just share his thoughts, you 

623
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,400
know, that we still think about 
today, by the way. 

624
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,200
Yeah, yeah, those thoughts we 
all have and should or should 

625
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:18,840
have, right. 
So that time was not censored 

626
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,720
there. 
He was not resistant to 

627
00:36:20,720 --> 00:36:23,800
censorship. 
So that's just kind of speaking 

628
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,560
to, hey, throughout history, you
know, we kind of needed that. 

629
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,000
This guy who was really smart 
and helped a lot of people have 

630
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,440
a lot of new and. 
Better thoughts? 

631
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,720
Yeah. 
He was able to get censored. 

632
00:36:35,720 --> 00:36:38,960
Why shouldn't we have a system 
that doesn't allow that? 

633
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,440
And it and the censorship 
resistance comes from the 

634
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:48,320
decentralization, right? 
Because if again like if once 

635
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,800
it's published it's published, 
it's. 

636
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:51,720
Published. 
Yeah, it doesn't matter. 

637
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:56,240
My take on it, which it it just 
sets, it gives a basis for 

638
00:36:56,240 --> 00:37:00,120
reality as opposed to spin or 
propaganda. 

639
00:37:00,520 --> 00:37:03,360
If I can control the channels, I
can tell you what to think and 

640
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,520
how to think. 
And enough times of hearing that

641
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:10,240
you're more likely going to kind
of be sympathetic to it at 

642
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:11,440
least, right? 
Yeah. 

643
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,520
But like you said, if we're able
to broadcast that and everybody 

644
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,680
has this shared understanding of
just the very simple truth, then

645
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,600
it's hard to be like, well, this
guy over here who's shouting, 

646
00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:26,320
he's saying something different.
I feel. 

647
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,080
I feel like it's not. 
Give me your I feel statement 

648
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,760
please. 
Yeah yeah well I think. 

649
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:38,160
I think this is this one I find 
like really illustrating and 

650
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:40,440
also correlating to like current
times right. 

651
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:45,800
Like it's the the like freedom 
of expression and and action is 

652
00:37:46,960 --> 00:37:50,480
really countered with this like 
cancel culture where I think you

653
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,760
know this example of Socrates, 
we still people still talk about

654
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:55,960
Socrates. 
They still talk about you know 

655
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,720
the the thoughts that he shared 
or the mental models and stuff 

656
00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:01,240
like that. 
And so he was actually right, 

657
00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,600
you know, like the fact, the 
fact or well, profoundly more 

658
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,200
right than whoever executed him.
Right. 

659
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,160
And we have to talk, Yeah. 
And the irony of that is that 

660
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,120
despite all their best 
intentions, his. 

661
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,920
His thoughts still live on and 
he lives on. 

662
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:23,680
So over time the truth won't 
out. 

663
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,000
And we also still talk about the
Greeks, right? 

664
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:33,720
But it's it's I I find 
cancellation like one of the 

665
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,840
weakest. 
It's the weakest form of any. 

666
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,960
I want to say dialogue, but it's
not even a dialogue. 

667
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,680
But it's about like, where, 
where did we take this exit, 

668
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,080
where we can just discuss ideas,
right? 

669
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:53,960
Like if you operate from kind of
like first first principle or 

670
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,960
like a mental model of I know 
that I don't know everything, 

671
00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:02,720
then whatever you think could 
also be interesting for me to 

672
00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,000
learn about, right? 
I don't have to agree and you 

673
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,880
don't have to agree with me, but
maybe both of our ideas are good

674
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,280
or bad, right? 
Like why? 

675
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,760
Why? 
Why did we take that accident? 

676
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:18,600
The Bitcoin or answer would 
probably be like Fiat maybe. 

677
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,560
But yeah, I I do feel that the 
money is kind of like also one 

678
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:26,840
of the base layers of 
interaction between people, 

679
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,600
right? 
We are exchanging value and 

680
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,640
exchanging ideas is also 
exchanging value. 

681
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,800
So in some way, I don't want to 
say I know the exact cause, but 

682
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,920
I feel like that is definitely 
part of it. 

683
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,000
Just the ability to to exchange 
information and value with each 

684
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,320
other is corrupted. 
And this is like one of the 

685
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,760
examples of that. 
It's not facts, it's more 

686
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,280
feelings, right? 
And the feelings are 

687
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:53,200
legitimized. 
And then this someone is 

688
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,280
canceled. 
Well, and Socrates time, he was 

689
00:39:55,320 --> 00:40:00,120
actually killed. 
Facts, facts are like a raft on 

690
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,960
a raging ocean where you know 
you have the truth. 

691
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:05,560
That's just sitting there like a
battleship, but you know it's 

692
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,280
it's not going to be deterred. 
I think it's also interesting 

693
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,120
that when you dive into Bitcoin,
it's like, like I said in the 

694
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,400
beginning and the a lot of 
things people in Bitcoin say 

695
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,960
they feel like opinions, but 
they're just kind of like 

696
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,680
objective realizations or 
observations, right? 

697
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,320
Like I don't there's opinions 
obviously in this space, but 

698
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,040
sure, sometimes I hear myself 
say things about Bitcoin where I

699
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,200
think like, oh that sounds so 
ridiculous, sounds such like 

700
00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,120
like a hype type statement, 
right? 

701
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:41,320
Or a shill for Bitcoin. 
But that is actually then not 

702
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:43,680
the case. 
It's just my own realization of 

703
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,520
something that I deeply studied.
And and and you mentioned First 

704
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,800
Principles and one of the guys 
that really bore that into my 

705
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,880
head was Jeff Booth, your twenty
previous guests, which that was 

706
00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,960
a great episode. 
I I just didn't love that 

707
00:40:56,960 --> 00:41:00,800
episode. 
But but speaking from first 

708
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,360
principles, yeah, it's like, OK,
you can say you don't like that,

709
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,640
but you can't. 
Disagree with doesn't change the

710
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:09,840
fact. 
And and and if you can't 

711
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:12,800
disagree with it, then what is 
your one of your only other 

712
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,400
tools is to cancel it. 
You know, to try and censor it. 

713
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,480
It's like and like you said, 
that's weak. 

714
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,880
That's beta, that's you know, we
can do better than cancelling 

715
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:24,320
each other's thoughts. 
It's like come at me with reason

716
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:27,440
logic. 
But why do we accept or why? 

717
00:41:27,440 --> 00:41:29,320
Why? 
Why is it accepted? 

718
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,960
Why is cancellation accepted 
currently what? 

719
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:37,680
What do you think about that? 
Again, an incentive of the Fiat 

720
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,320
system, because the high time 
preference mindset is like, oh, 

721
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,280
I'm I'm feeling discomfort from 
this current situation of 

722
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,200
cognitive dissonance. 
So instead of like putting in 

723
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,320
the proof of work to argue it or
think it through or change my 

724
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,600
mind, it's easier to just turn 
it off or swipe, you know? 

725
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,200
Yeah, I don't want to do the 
work to understand why this 

726
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,080
objective truth messes me up so 
much inside. 

727
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:05,520
Right. 
Yeah. 

728
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,040
Yeah. 
Funny. 

729
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:13,320
I I I feel that that people who 
really like dove into Bitcoin. 

730
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,440
They understand this proof of 
work thing that you have to. 

731
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:20,320
I also have the same feeling I 
sometimes people have opinions 

732
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:24,120
and and then I think like, but 
how substantiated is this 

733
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:26,560
opinion? 
Like did you do enough work to 

734
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,880
form this opinion right. 
And I really try to operate from

735
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,600
a point where I, I want to know 
enough. 

736
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,000
And that's my own quality, like 
bar, right, Like how much work I

737
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:38,240
do. 
But I want to know enough before

738
00:42:38,240 --> 00:42:40,920
I have an opinion because it's 
just, oh gosh, it's also a 

739
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,920
disingenuous conversation, 
right? 

740
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,280
If I have an opinion about 
something that you, I don't 

741
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,680
know, studied for 10 years, it's
like I'm not even respecting 

742
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,360
your time or intelligence or 
whatever if when I'm not able 

743
00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:54,920
to. 
Just I could. 

744
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,800
I couldn't tell you who who the 
best golfer is, so I'm not even 

745
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,640
going to try. 
I have no clue either. 

746
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,080
Yeah, yeah, I have a goal for 
you. 

747
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:06,080
I don't follow it, but I 
thought, yeah, that's great. 

748
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,760
This is just, I could talk about
this for a long time, but it's, 

749
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:13,640
yeah, yeah, interesting. 
Last one I wanted to touch upon 

750
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:16,600
from the book was the the 
scarcity aspect. 

751
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:21,040
Like you reflect on how video 
games with unlimited lives 

752
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,280
influenced your behavior due to 
like a lack of scarcity, right? 

753
00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,560
Like, I don't know, I played 
Grand Theft Auto also when I was

754
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,560
younger, like, oh, you can just 
do this crazy thing or I could 

755
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,720
just die there and I spawn 
again, right? 

756
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:37,600
So I I thought it was like a 
nice nice example, but you draw 

757
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:40,720
a parallel to the real world 
concept of of scarcity. 

758
00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:44,280
Like can you explain this 
analogy that you used to? 

759
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:53,160
So, yeah, to me that's also a an
incentive kind of thing, right? 

760
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,800
It's an incentive of the system,
like I'm going to run balls to 

761
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,800
the wall into, you know, Super 
Mario. 

762
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,960
I'm going to just run and jump. 
I'm going to get that 

763
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,640
eventually. 
But you know, I'm going to die 

764
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,480
in the process and it doesn't 
matter because I'm going to keep

765
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,800
going. 
So as if it was a different. 

766
00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,520
Now video game probably wouldn't
be played if it only had one 

767
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,600
life, right? 
If you had one life and you're 

768
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:15,280
done there, nobody would play 
the video game. 

769
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:20,280
But scarcity changes how you 
act. 

770
00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,960
So Jeff Booth quote, You know 
cautious or you have to think, 

771
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:28,160
right? 
Abundance lead abundance in 

772
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,240
resources leads to scarcity 
elsewhere. 

773
00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:33,680
Scarcity in resource. 
You know that concept right 

774
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,440
there. 
It is huge. 

775
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:42,200
So, well, abundance takes away 
boundaries. 

776
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,200
I'd say right? 
And boundaries are very 

777
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:51,200
important for making a plan, 
being creative, analyzing you 

778
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:53,160
know possible strategies 
etcetera. 

779
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,040
So if if you can do anything you
want, it's kind of like I think 

780
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,360
this is one of kind of like the 
millennial tenets, right, like 

781
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:03,720
we could always do anything. 
So we we get like what's the 

782
00:45:03,720 --> 00:45:07,520
paradox of choice Also in in a 
sense, right? 

783
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,440
That analysis paralysis. 
Yeah, I can do anything. 

784
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:11,960
What should I do? 
Oh, I don't know. 

785
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:14,400
Or I try everything and I have 
no direction, right. 

786
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,560
I think it's and it it's it, it 
has to do with that that 

787
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:23,800
scarcity forces you to think 
within the frame of the scarcity

788
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:26,840
that is given to you, whether 
that's 21 million Bitcoin or 

789
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,640
certain amount of time or 
whatever. 

790
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,440
Well, and the the scarcity also 
it is about respect and 

791
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:40,840
respecting time and effort, you 
know, so when we print millions 

792
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:43,280
and millions, we create 
inflation and each unit. 

793
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,360
In the system is worth less and 
less and if you're working for 

794
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:51,920
those units and the current 
system is set up to devalue 

795
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,920
that, it's basically develop 
devaluing your time and effort 

796
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:58,280
and that's disrespectful. 
I take offense to that. 

797
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,800
I mean, and that's one of the 
main reasons I love Bitcoin, is 

798
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,360
because it's respecting my time 
and effort. 

799
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:09,800
Yeah, I saw, just I saw a tweet 
the US Defense Department has 

800
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,880
failed its financial audit for 
the 6th consecutive year. 

801
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:16,800
This is a prime example, 
surprise like surprise face. 

802
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:19,480
If you didn't have to do it 
after three years, then well, 

803
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,600
probably also not after four and
five and six. 

804
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,960
So there are, I think there's a 
prime example of no boundaries. 

805
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:29,400
It's That kind of reminds me of 
the phrase, like, if you're 

806
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,120
talking to a banker, if I owe 
the bank $1000, that's my 

807
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,680
problem. 
If I owe the bank $1,000,000, 

808
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:37,920
it's their problem. 
You know, once it gets so big, 

809
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,640
well, it doesn't matter. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

810
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:50,760
Oh man, I think it's it is hard 
for people to find a threat, let

811
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,680
let alone more threats to start 
pulling from right to learn. 

812
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:58,800
And also when I look back at my 
own journey, I find it hard to 

813
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,240
really say like, oh that's when 
it clicked or that's when I 

814
00:47:01,240 --> 00:47:03,520
really saw something that I 
couldn't unseen before. 

815
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:07,120
Like how's that for you? 
Like are there specific things 

816
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:09,680
that triggered you or was it 
like a slow? 

817
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:11,880
I was actually. 
I started. 

818
00:47:12,360 --> 00:47:18,040
To buy in and study in the 
middle of 2018 which was after 

819
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,840
the last big peak of 2017. 
It came down and kind of 

820
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:22,520
flattened out. 
And like I bought the week 

821
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,800
before it went from like 6000 
down to 3000. 

822
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,080
So I I I went real quick. 
I'm like what the hell, man? 

823
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,720
And I but I kept learning it 
because it was interesting and I

824
00:47:32,720 --> 00:47:35,840
like to geek out on stuff and it
was you know a new opportunity. 

825
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:41,360
So, and then the and I've always
been about, like, libertarian 

826
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:45,040
leaning. 
Centralization anyway, so that 

827
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:48,360
kind of clicked there. 
But the real eye opening was 

828
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:52,320
2020 and and that crash and 
everything that ensued, 

829
00:47:53,080 --> 00:47:55,400
regardless of politics or 
anything else, it was just like,

830
00:47:56,160 --> 00:48:00,280
holy shit, all of these 
properties that we've we've been

831
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,240
discussing or most of these 
properties just got flipped on 

832
00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:06,760
their head and they were already
on that trajectory. 

833
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:08,800
You know, the scarcity money 
printing. 

834
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:10,760
Well, look at all the money we 
spent there. 

835
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,800
The centralization, well, now 
we're taking control of all 

836
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:18,080
aspects of your life, whether 
it's a good cause or not. 

837
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:22,040
I don't even that's irrelevant 
to this, to this discussion. 

838
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:25,880
The ability to gain consensus. 
We can't even agree with 

839
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,520
sciences, you know, and it's all
based on, it's all based on that

840
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,040
that truth feeling aspect we had
before. 

841
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,840
There was a lot of fear. 
We didn't have permissions, you 

842
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:44,680
know, we couldn't see. 
Information being changed 

843
00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:47,440
through laws. 
So it wasn't open source. 

844
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,680
You know, like all of these 
concepts in Bitcoin were being 

845
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,720
challenged and Bitcoin was 
resilient through the whole 

846
00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:56,400
thing and not only resilient it 
it, it was anti fragile. 

847
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:02,080
You know, it it got stronger and
that that gave gave me hope, 

848
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,360
that gave me you know Peace of 
Mind for everybody else is 

849
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,160
flipping out. 
I I kind of had something to 

850
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,640
hold on to to be like this all 
makes sense. 

851
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:12,520
This is all, Yeah, this thing 
doesn't change. 

852
00:49:12,520 --> 00:49:17,240
It doesn't care, right? 
It's staying strong through the 

853
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:19,840
storm. 
I think that's actually a very 

854
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:28,120
strong realization that when 
name anything else that doesn't 

855
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,440
care, well, nature. 
Nature. 

856
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:31,840
Maybe Nature. 
Nature. 

857
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:35,160
Yeah, yeah, honey Badgers too. 
But now, like, nature doesn't 

858
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,360
care about what we do. 
Like nature will always survive 

859
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:42,400
in a sense, even when we. 
But when we die out, nature will

860
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:47,760
always survive. 
And I I think when you have that

861
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:50,760
insight into Bitcoin, it's 
interesting also when like a 

862
00:49:50,760 --> 00:49:54,440
price really goes down and you 
think like oh, what happened? 

863
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,680
Did it like crash? 
Or like did Bitcoin the 

864
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,720
technology crash? 
Or did something change? 

865
00:49:59,720 --> 00:50:02,960
Or a hack, or like, No, nothing 
changed. 

866
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,440
It's all purely the human 
psychology. 

867
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:08,520
Asymmetry of information and all
that? 

868
00:50:08,520 --> 00:50:10,800
Yeah, exactly. 
But it's the thing. 

869
00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,120
The basics, the fundamentals 
have not changed. 

870
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,920
It's still the same. 
You can read about what is 

871
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:18,280
actually changed, if there's 
something changed to the core, 

872
00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:20,200
right? 
But mostly it's just chugging 

873
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:22,280
along. 
It's just there, you know? 

874
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:26,320
I think that gives me personally
a lot of rest. 

875
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:30,440
Like I'm a pretty risky first 
person that's actually Wi-Fi, 

876
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,600
Bitcoin. 
Like I don't have to worry about

877
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,080
all this external influence and 
all these people trying to mess 

878
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,680
with whatever other system I 
could be involved in. 

879
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:41,040
And for me, it's just like, I 
know this. 

880
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:46,640
It'll just keep doing its thing 
and that actually gives me a lot

881
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,520
of peace. 
I love that. 

882
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,600
So what, what of the way we 
talked about a few aspects, you 

883
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:55,400
mentioned others before like 
which which of the aspects of 

884
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,560
Bitcoin do you think has like 
the biggest potential impact or 

885
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:01,800
is it more like what you 
mentioned before like that that 

886
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,200
combination that you know they 
strengthen each other? 

887
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,800
It's the confluence, it's the 
secrets, the mix, You know it's 

888
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:13,120
it's all of them. 
Working in tandem in concert is 

889
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:16,920
what makes it. 
The discovery that it is, yeah. 

890
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,480
And so what's the biggest 
misconception you think people 

891
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,320
have about Bitcoin, or what's 
like the biggest one that you 

892
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:24,400
run? 
Into I don't even think it's 

893
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:27,200
misconception. 
I think it's lack of conception.

894
00:51:27,520 --> 00:51:29,800
You know what I mean? 
Yeah, I mean there's a lot of 

895
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:35,160
fun out there for sure, but it's
like, so I started just cuz I 

896
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,360
like to geek out about Bitcoin. 
I started making like YouTube 

897
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:41,000
shorts and stuff about Bitcoin 
education and I was sitting in 

898
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:45,120
my son's jiu jitsu lesson. 
And I just finished one and I 

899
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,680
leaned over to somebody who I've
known, you know, since high 

900
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:48,960
school. 
And I was, like, told her, 

901
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:50,160
what's going on? 
I was like, hey, can you take a 

902
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:51,720
look at this? 
And it was on scarcity. 

903
00:51:52,240 --> 00:51:54,400
And I was like, you know, what's
your take away from it? 

904
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:57,840
And she said, I didn't know 
there was a limited supply. 

905
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,440
OK, So we get so bitcoins get so
deep down the rabbit hole that 

906
00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,400
we can't even see out and see 
how people are walking around. 

907
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,240
You know, not with without even,
like, the slightest 

908
00:52:13,240 --> 00:52:16,360
understanding. 
Very interesting. 

909
00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:18,960
So I could, I could imagine I 
could have that conversation 

910
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,800
with her on every other one of 
these properties, right? 

911
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,240
And then have to do them 
separately just to even like 

912
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:28,840
crack the surface, you know? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

913
00:52:29,920 --> 00:52:31,760
And So what are you doing with 
the YouTube shorts? 

914
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:36,320
Trying to to make it simpler 
then or like say there's only 21

915
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:37,920
million like what? 
What's your goal there? 

916
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:42,240
So here's a fun 1A study from 
like, at least 10 years ago. 

917
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:50,880
Analyzed the speech pattern or 
the difficulty of like text 

918
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,680
complexity in presidential 
speeches throughout the decades,

919
00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,960
and what they noticed was it 
went from a collegiate level 

920
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,320
decades ago. 
You want to guess what the 

921
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,640
reading level is now for. 
I don't know 7th. 

922
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:07,800
Grade, 5th grade and that was in
20, that was in 2014. 

923
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,440
So I I hate to see what it is 
now. 

924
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:15,600
So well now it's like. 
It's yelling and screaming and 

925
00:53:15,600 --> 00:53:19,320
beating their chest, right. 
So my, my thing is like, I'm, 

926
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:22,280
I'm an elementary teacher, you 
I've been doing that for almost 

927
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:25,760
20 years. 
It's like you got to find the 

928
00:53:25,760 --> 00:53:28,680
frequency at which they can 
receive, right? 

929
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:33,400
So I'm, I'm going to be making 
shorts, so they're going to be 

930
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,200
more for the no coiner, I guess 
you could say. 

931
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,880
And I'm going to make it not to.
Disrespect anybody's 

932
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,320
intelligence but I'm just going 
to make it bite sized chunks 

933
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,560
easier to understand. 
So I I think that's like you 

934
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:47,040
know you get into conversations 
you want. 

935
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,080
I want to talk about the 
consensus algorithm and they're 

936
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,160
like what? 
I don't know what either of 

937
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:55,360
those words mean. 
So I'm kind of trying to take my

938
00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,280
education background and my 
Bitcoin knowledge and put put it

939
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,840
toward there. 
That's the that's the orange 

940
00:54:01,840 --> 00:54:04,760
pill I'm going for. 
Yeah, great. 

941
00:54:05,000 --> 00:54:07,640
Great angle. 
Like I I think there's there's 

942
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:12,040
still so much to do, right. 
So there's so many opportunities

943
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,880
when also for people who listen 
listen to this like what if 

944
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,440
you're enthusiastic about 
Bitcoin, you can yeah, I I 

945
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:22,120
started the podcast you are 
going to do YouTube shorts like 

946
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:25,840
you can do anything to 
contribute and and help people, 

947
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,440
right. 
And as you mentioned, like you, 

948
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,960
you cannot expect that everyone 
that you potentially talk to 

949
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,480
knows the basics like the fixed 
supply, right. 

950
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,680
And there's just so much to win.
So yeah, I love that. 

951
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:41,320
Did you actually start with it 
yet? 

952
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:42,200
Yeah. 
Or you're going? 

953
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:46,640
To I'm going with zoom out so 
you can it's zoom Out 21 on 

954
00:54:46,840 --> 00:54:51,360
Twitter, YouTube, Instagram, not
Instagram, but whatever. 

955
00:54:51,360 --> 00:54:53,160
I'll I'll link to all of them in
the. 

956
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:55,520
In the show notes so people can 
check it out. 

957
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:57,920
Yeah. 
And also I'd say for your 

958
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,400
listeners go to local meetups. 
I I Co host Lincoln Land Bitcoin

959
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,240
meet up in Springfield, IL which
is in the middle of a corn field

960
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,960
so. 
It out, your list show up there.

961
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,680
But yeah if there are no local 
meet ups start your local meet 

962
00:55:09,680 --> 00:55:11,120
up. 
You know, yeah, there's an 

963
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:13,400
opportunity right there. 
A 100% agree. 

964
00:55:13,720 --> 00:55:18,200
So what's what's like a personal
story that highlights the the 

965
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,240
impact of Bitcoin on on your 
life? 

966
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:22,920
Is that, Yeah, well, is the meet
up one of those things? 

967
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:25,800
Or Oh yeah, no, absolutely. 
I'm I'm more of an introvert, 

968
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:28,640
historically speaking or I guess
pre Bitcoin. 

969
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:33,360
So putting myself out there and 
making connections that way and 

970
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,960
growing my personal local 
Bitcoin Dunbar number, you know 

971
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:40,480
what I mean? 
Yeah, that that right there has 

972
00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:42,280
been huge. 
It's done a lot. 

973
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,880
I know it sounds silly to people
who might not understand the 

974
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,960
have been down the rabbit hole, 
but Bitcoin has changed my 

975
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,560
perspective on health. 
I've become so much more healthy

976
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:57,480
and I feel so much better. 
I'm I'm so much more productive.

977
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,840
Respecting my own time, having a
lower time preference, there's 

978
00:56:02,840 --> 00:56:04,160
so many factors that lead into 
that. 

979
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,480
Is that about being more aware 
or? 

980
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:12,960
It's the proof of work. 
You know you you might see a 

981
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:17,240
good tip, health tip, more sleep
or better nutrition or exercise 

982
00:56:17,240 --> 00:56:18,720
or whatever. 
But like implementing those 

983
00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:24,720
things and making them like 
default, you know and and and 

984
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:27,040
making them all work together is
kind of where. 

985
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,440
That's all kind of come together
in the last year or two, Yeah, 

986
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:33,520
yeah, yeah, it I talked about 
that in the last episode as 

987
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:34,960
well. 
So really about what? 

988
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,320
Walking the talk, basically. 
It really is. 

989
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:40,160
Yeah, right. 
Yeah, that's that's, I think big

990
00:56:40,160 --> 00:56:41,840
part of the of the Bitcoin 
ethos. 

991
00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:46,280
So I want to move on to my last 
question and ask everyone the 

992
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:50,200
same same thing. 
What's a core belief that you 

993
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:56,120
will never let go? 
Good ideas don't require force. 

994
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:02,760
If we have to persuade, that's 
one thing. 

995
00:57:02,760 --> 00:57:06,200
If we, you know, educate, that's
obviously another thing. 

996
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,800
But if we have to force somebody
to do something, even if we 

997
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:11,920
think it's good, that doesn't 
mean that everybody else thinks 

998
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:13,480
it's good from their first 
perspective. 

999
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:19,040
And that force is just leads 
down a bad path. 

1000
00:57:19,080 --> 00:57:23,440
It leads to more force and it 
leads to inverse force. 

1001
00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:25,320
You know the the reaction to 
force. 

1002
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:32,080
So if we can build a voluntary 
society, it's unforced. 

1003
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:38,440
And that leads to prosperity, 
wealth, good times for all, you 

1004
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,600
know. 
Awesome man. 

1005
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,960
I love it. 
Thanks so much for this 

1006
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:44,400
conversation. 
I really enjoyed it. 

1007
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,400
Thank you. 
And where can where can people 

1008
00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:49,960
follow you online? 
I will link to your YouTube. 

1009
00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:51,400
Yeah, and. 
Thank you. 

1010
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:56,320
My personal is. 
Or Tim under score Niemeyer, 

1011
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,360
under score History. 
Echoes Bitcoin is on Amazon. 

1012
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:09,080
It's at HISTECHOHIBTC, Histon 
Echoes Bitcoin. 

1013
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,360
And then the other stuff on 
YouTube and Twitter at Zoom Out 

1014
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:16,920
21. 
Awesome, man. 

1015
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:19,000
I hope people will check that 
and. 

1016
00:58:19,000 --> 00:58:22,200
Lincoln Land, Bitcoin, Yeah, So 
if you're around. 

1017
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,360
If you're in the middle of a 
corn field in the middle of 

1018
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:29,480
America, yeah, Lincoln Land, BTC
Awesome. 

1019
00:58:29,720 --> 00:58:31,560
Well, thanks again and keep in 
touch. 

1020
00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:33,240
Thank you. 
Cheers. 

1021
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,400
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, it would be amazing 

1022
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:39,240
if you could rate, review and 
subscribe on the podcast 

1023
00:58:39,240 --> 00:58:42,160
platform of your choice. 
It will help us educate more 

1024
00:58:42,160 --> 00:58:44,280
millennials on the importance of
Bitcoin. 

1025
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:46,280
You can follow and connect with 
me on Twitter. 

1026
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:50,440
I'm Bram K That's at BR. 
AM K, and if you are or know 

1027
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,840
someone who has an interesting 
perspective on Bitcoin that's 

1028
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,840
worth sharing, hit me UI. 
Read and reply to every single 

1029
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:57,720
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1030
00:58:57,720 --> 00:58:59,360
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1031
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:00,960
Thanks for listening. 
Bye.