1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,720 What if I told you that Bitcoin mining now supplies 2% of 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:08,280 Finland residential heating, replacing fossil fuels and 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:12,720 accelerating their energy goals. Daniel Batten is back on Bitcoin 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,239 for millennials to breakdown tree game changing trends that 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,320 are rewriting Bitcoin's story in 2025. 6 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:23,000 We'll explore how Bitcoin is heating homes, how pension funds 7 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:25,960 holding trillions are finally joining the party, and how 8 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,720 Bitcoin is unlocking real humanitarian power in places 9 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,080 where it's needed the most. And the most surprising driver 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,480 of bitcoins next wave. That's the one that isn't really 11 00:00:36,480 --> 00:00:40,480 talked about much yet. All right, let's dive in. 12 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,160 Yeah, let's just kick it off. Our first topic is Bitcoin 13 00:00:46,160 --> 00:00:49,000 mining slash energy energy abundance. 14 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,240 This is a fascinating one because when we think Bitcoin, 15 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:58,760 we think about a monetary revolution, and obviously that's 16 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,360 what Bitcoin is. But it's not only a monetary 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,040 revolution, it's also an energy revolution. 18 00:01:05,519 --> 00:01:10,080 And for me that's equally pronounced, the positive impact 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,640 that can have on humanity and equally exciting. 20 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:18,400 And how that's enabled is completely accidental because 21 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,200 Sudoshi never in his wildest dreams could have imagined that 22 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,880 in creating a protocol called Bitcoin, which was driven by 23 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:30,600 proof of work, that over time you would need so much energy 24 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,720 that you'd have these massive, sometimes publicly listed mining 25 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,280 companies who are doing nothing else other than mining Bitcoin. 26 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:41,280 Who'd be using vast supplies of energy, which would create an 27 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,280 industry which was unique in the world that we've never had 28 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,160 before. And that's because, Bram, 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:51,000 there's not a single other energy industry in the world 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,360 apart from Bitcoin mining, where around 80% of your entire 31 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,840 expense line is spent on power. We've never had that. 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,960 And because of that accident, it means that Bitcoin mining 33 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:09,199 companies, unlike any other company in the world, it 34 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:14,720 suddenly becomes economically viable for them to go chasing 35 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:17,920 cheapest stranded energy. So I'll give you an example. 36 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,280 So I'm the managing partner, as you said, at a company called 37 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,840 Chapter 4 Capital. So we specialize in giving 38 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:29,000 infrastructure financing to Bitcoin mining companies who are 39 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:32,720 using landfills emissions as their power source. 40 00:02:33,680 --> 00:02:39,640 Sounds pretty niche, right? And the crazy thing is, we've 41 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,840 known about this issue about landfills leaching gargantuan 42 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,960 quantities of methane, which is not only a pollutant, but it's 43 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,560 responsible for around 1,000,000 premature deaths every year. 44 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,440 It's a contributor to smog, all sorts of horrible things, but 45 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:02,360 we've never had a way to basically wipe out all that 46 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:04,800 methane that makes economic sense. 47 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:07,680 So what people have tended to do is they've just burnt it, 48 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,720 they've fled it. But the problem is that unless 49 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,880 you have a regulatory stick which is forcing you to do so, 50 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,280 then no one's going to flare it because it costs a lot of money. 51 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:18,720 You've got to buy the infrastructure, you've got to 52 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,440 buy the flare stack, you've got to maintain them. 53 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,720 It's expensive and ultimately just waste energy. 54 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,040 So in most places in the world, Southeast Asia, Africa, Latin 55 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:32,000 America, you name it, India, Pakistan, these landfills simply 56 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,480 vent directly into the air. Huge quantities of pollution 57 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:41,000 slash energy. Now, because Bitcoin mining 58 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,720 companies have such a large percentage of their budget being 59 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,440 power, it's actually worth it for them to go chasing that 60 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,560 cheap energy because as you can imagine, it's not so convenient 61 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:52,560 setting up on a landfill and just hooking up to the grid, 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:54,120 right? So why would you do that? 63 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,840 Well, the reason you do it is you can get power for one cent 64 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:02,720 per kWh, but to access that power, you've got extra costs. 65 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:04,680 You've got to pay for gas capture and collection. 66 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:08,520 You've got to pay for these huge generators that turn the power 67 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,160 from the methane into power, and you've got to purify that 68 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,880 landfill gas, that bio gas. So it only makes economic sense 69 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,920 if 80% of your expenses is power. 70 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,440 So these Bitcoin mining companies have found a place on 71 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:28,520 landfills in oil and gas fields using flare gases, using 72 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,040 stranded renewable energy, which exists around the world. 73 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:33,280 Wherever you have energy, which is renewable, you'll have 74 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:35,920 stranded energy. Maybe it's from a hydro jam that 75 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:40,080 was built as all dams are to deliver for today's capacity. 76 00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:42,680 No, to deliver capacity for 20 years time. 77 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,600 So they have way more power capacity than they're using lots 78 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,920 of wasted energy or solar and wind farms that were built 79 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,680 through government incentives, but without thought about how 80 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:58,160 you transported that energy. So often it just gets wasted. 81 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,560 And again, so Bitcoin mining companies are coming into these 82 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,600 solar farms, these wind farms, these hydro facilities, these 83 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,440 landfills, these oil and gas fields, and they're just soaking 84 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,280 up all of that wasted energy. And what happens when they do 85 00:05:09,280 --> 00:05:11,160 that? In the case of oil and gas 86 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:13,840 fields and landfills, they're solving A pollution problem. 87 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:16,920 And in the case of these other sources, such as hydrate, wind 88 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,960 and solar, they're solving a problem which has stopped these 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,280 sources of renewable energy being profitable. 90 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,720 And as a result, because the utility is getting more power, 91 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:33,360 they're able to redeploy that extra revenue to build out more 92 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:36,520 renewable capacity or to build out more transmission lines to 93 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,840 reach more people, which in places like Africa means more 94 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,720 rural people who are in energy poverty. 95 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,400 So it's facilitating these energy revolutions both in the 96 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,320 West and outside the West, making energy more profitable 97 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:54,600 and lowering electricity bills, which is the opposite of what 98 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,440 you might read. But this is absolutely the case. 99 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,760 You ask any grid operator who's used Bitcoin mining. 100 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,720 In fact, I was talking to a Bitcoin mining company just two 101 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,560 days ago who said that they were doing some work with a grid 102 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:11,400 operator who said the reason we're looking at Bitcoin mining 103 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:14,000 is we've done our research and we've realized that we've had a 104 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:17,680 threshold and we can't put more renewable energy onto the grid 105 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:22,920 unless we have more flexible load to counterbalance its 106 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,800 intermittency. And we've done our research and 107 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:26,800 we've worked out the best flexible load in the world is 108 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,680 Bitcoin mining. So that's why it's leading to 109 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,240 these energy revolutions. And it's tremendously exciting 110 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,120 because without that, we're going to have to make choices 111 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:37,040 about, well, do we have more renewable energy or do we have 112 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:38,560 more reliable, affordable energy? 113 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,320 And Bitcoin says you don't have to make that choice. 114 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,880 You have it all. When we are talking about where 115 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:48,840 we're at in 2025, I think you are doing the work to share how 116 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:52,360 this is so beneficial. And we're slowly seeing this 117 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,120 actually being picked up more in, in, in the, in the 118 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,880 scientific realm, right? That's right. 119 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,520 And what's happened since last time we spoke is we're starting 120 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:06,080 to see this happening at scale. So for example, one of the most 121 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,520 amazing side benefits of Bitcoin mining is that they produce 122 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,440 heat, right, Because they get really hot as they're hashing. 123 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,560 In fact, 100% of the energy is transmitted into heat. 124 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,560 So if you can capture that heat, you can do some really useful 125 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,560 stuff because it turns out that half of the world's energy goes 126 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:26,840 into heating stuff up. Now, obviously it's not going to 127 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,320 produce enough heat to melt steel or to melt silicon, but it 128 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:35,000 can produce enough heat to heat up residential areas or hot 129 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,640 water. And so that's tremendously 130 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,920 valuable because right now Finland, not many people know 131 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,320 this, but 2% of the district heating. 132 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,560 So that's the heating that goes through pipes and heats up homes 133 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:52,560 throughout Finland during the long winter time is now supplied 134 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,960 by Bitcoin mining. So that's more than 100,000 in 135 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,240 total. Residents are getting their 136 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,600 homes heated through the exhaust heat through Bitcoin mining. 137 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,320 So Mara is up there, they've done 80,000 homes. 138 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,200 There's other companies up there who are doing it as well, doing 139 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,800 this amazing work. And the amazing thing is that 140 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,280 what are what's Finland using right now for their just 141 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:17,400 heating? What's their power? 142 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:23,240 Well, it's coal, gas, little bit of renewables and peat, but 143 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,320 mostly fossil fuel. So when you're replacing those 144 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,480 predominantly fossil fuel and peat's horrible stuff, it's 145 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:30,520 worse than coal. When you burn it puts all sorts 146 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,360 of carcinogens into the air. So when you replace those heat 147 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:38,520 sources with predominantly clean renewable energy based heat 148 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:42,200 sources, which are coming from clean electrified energy, it's 149 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:47,000 helping Finland to reach its net 0 emission targets by 20-30 for 150 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,600 district heating. So they love it. 151 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,240 And this was covered in a report by Cambridge recently who said, 152 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,040 yeah, we found that now the coin mining is 52% using sustainable 153 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:01,320 energy. It's obviating the need for 154 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:04,040 fossil fuel based heating at scales for heat recycling. 155 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,720 There's methane mitigation happening all around the world 156 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,800 through companies such as Cruzo back in the day. 157 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,640 Now companies like Mara and other companies who are doing a 158 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:19,880 lot of methane mitigation in the oil and gas industry and also 159 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,400 companies on landfills, and it's helping to stabilize the grids. 160 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,520 And we're getting these really good, robust independent 161 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:27,880 studies. In fact, we've had eight of them 162 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,600 now, which are saying this is not for the Bitcoin mining 163 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:33,480 ecosystem. This, these are independent 164 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:37,560 reports saying, yeah, this is solving some really key energy 165 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:39,960 challenges. There they are, yeah. 166 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,360 Bitcoin custody is evolving and on Ramp is leading this change 167 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,960 with multi institution custody eliminating single points of 168 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,920 failure. Instead of relying on one 169 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,880 institution on ramp secures your Bitcoin in a cold storage multi 170 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:57,160 sig Volt backed by three independent custodians where no 171 00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:59,680 single party can move your funds alone, providing an 172 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:03,480 unprecedented level of security. 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So we know it in theory, we know 211 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:13,440 it in practice, and we have the receipts to prove it. 212 00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:18,080 Yeah, it's so cool that you know, these these topics that 213 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,200 that I talk about a lot with regard to Bitcoin, for example, 214 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:24,080 you know that it aligns incentives is something that you 215 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,920 that you see here, right? Like the fact that people have 216 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:32,680 to pay a penalty to discard of the energy that they created 217 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:36,640 with, you know, a project that they already invested to 218 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:41,080 invested in, right? Is, is just absolutely bonkers, 219 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,320 you know, and, and the fact that also also, you know, certain 220 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,840 principles that have worked before are also working here, 221 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:50,200 right? It's like I have to think of 222 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,800 Uber, right? Like Uber identified in the 223 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,960 beginning, there are like black car drivers in New York City 224 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,320 that are hired for a day, but when they drive someone in the 225 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,520 morning and they drop them off at their office, they're just 226 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:02,760 hanging out the whole day, right? 227 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,560 So they have this asset, this black car and this, this, this 228 00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:08,120 person who is neatly dressed and just the experience of a black 229 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,880 car. And then they realize that that 230 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,960 is something that you can monetize, same as with Airbnb, 231 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:15,640 if you have spare room at etcetera. 232 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:17,200 And so here it is the same, right? 233 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:22,120 Like no one ever really, no one ever really fought before about, 234 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,120 oh, I can actually sell my methane emissions of my 235 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,800 landfill. Like, you know, it is something 236 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,200 so new and, and I I think that it's just so fascinating in a 237 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,480 sense that this is also quite early, I would say, right? 238 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,720 We, we still have, well, we have some coverage now that we are 239 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,840 talking about it. We we also brought this, right. 240 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,840 So we mentioned the papers, these are the the journals. 241 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,160 This is this is something that that you are obviously 242 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,120 following, right? But more and more we're getting 243 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:54,720 this coverage of yeah, the power, the power of Bitcoin 244 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,840 mining basically. And then if I, if I switch to 245 00:13:56,840 --> 00:14:01,120 this one, this is the one that I absolutely love because when we 246 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:03,760 see all the FUD, right, it is all the, you know, the more 247 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,120 transactions are on Bitcoin or the more people that adopt 248 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,600 Bitcoin, the more energy it's going to use, etcetera, 249 00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,960 etcetera. But yeah, maybe you can explain 250 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:13,240 this because I think this is kind of like the ultimate FUD 251 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:16,920 Buster, but also for people that are not really following this, 252 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:18,680 this is this is massively interesting. 253 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,080 Sure. So this will helps adoption 254 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:26,040 enormously because in order for the mainstream and large 255 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,600 financial institutions to adopt Bitcoin, they have to feel 256 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:31,560 comfortable that it's going to be a net good to humanity. 257 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,960 And so the fact we've now got 22 peer reviewed journals showing 258 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,360 that it is net good to the environment, that it does help 259 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,840 to stabilize the grid, to accelerate the green energy 260 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:45,160 transition, to mitigate methane, to recycle heat, to obviate gas 261 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:48,800 peaker plants, to make batteries more efficient, to reduce the 262 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,560 cost that it takes, the time that it takes to get solar and 263 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:56,880 wind operators profitable. It's tremendously important. 264 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,240 So it's been a big part of turning around perceptions and 265 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,160 really does increase adoption. And at the same time, what's 266 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,920 happened is a lot of those first generation studies on Bitcoin 267 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,600 have been widely debunked. There was some papers that 268 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:14,560 suggested, for example, that as hash rate increased and as 269 00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:18,480 Bitcoin price increased, that Bitcoin's energy use would go 270 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,120 out of control and its emissions would get out of hand. 271 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,720 And it's just not the case. And it's not the case for a 272 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,120 couple of reasons. Firstly, there were some 273 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:26,680 fundamental flaws in the research. 274 00:15:26,680 --> 00:15:29,640 They assumed, for example, that energy came from its 275 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,400 transactions. As just about everyone in 276 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,800 Bitcoin understands, it does not come from its transactions, it 277 00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:38,000 comes from mining it. So you can have 1000 times more 278 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,560 transactions on the Bitcoin network. 279 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,880 It does use any more energy at all. 280 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:45,000 It would be completely independent. 281 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,880 And what this graph is showing is that over a four year period, 282 00:15:49,880 --> 00:15:53,920 so over an entire harming cycle, price went up six times, hash 283 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:57,120 rate went up 8 times, but the amount of emissions stayed 284 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,120 static over a full 4 year period. 285 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:01,720 And that happened for two reasons #1 the use of more 286 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:05,120 efficient machines, yes, but that's right, people tend to 287 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,480 forget Moore's law when making these predictions. 288 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,120 But the second thing was Bitcoin was migrating to cleaner energy 289 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:16,440 sources, so using predominantly sustainable net 0 emission 290 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,040 sources of energy now. And so this single graphic has 291 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:24,520 actually helped put a lot of policy maker and regulator mines 292 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:27,800 at risk because they can see, oh, good, we're not going to 293 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:29,440 boil the oceans from using Bitcoin. 294 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,840 In fact, not only that, but if you compare it to the banking 295 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,720 network, whereas its computational power goes up from 296 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,680 its data center use, emissions don't stay static there. 297 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,800 They're not using more renewable energy, right? 298 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:45,320 They're using the same as they always were, which is grid mix, 299 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,640 which might be improving 1% per year, but it's not the the 300 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:50,320 accelerated rate that Bitcoin is. 301 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,240 And so every time that you're using Bitcoin for a transaction, 302 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,600 not the banking network, I would argue that it's actually net 303 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,600 emission reducing because you're migrating to a less emission 304 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,319 intensive network. Every time you use Bitcoin 305 00:17:05,319 --> 00:17:08,359 rather than gold as a store of value, I would again say it's 306 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,760 net emission reducing because the environmental footprint of 307 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:14,200 gold and it's emission intensity is off the charts. 308 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,839 It's one of the most dirty energy industries you can 309 00:17:17,839 --> 00:17:19,960 possibly imagine. It's environmental impact is 310 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,680 devastating, leads huge scars on the landscape and that's just 311 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,119 not the case with Bitcoin. It works very synergistically 312 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,840 with the land, with the environment and with renewable 313 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,160 energy operators and its emission intensity is way less 314 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:34,840 than gold. So in the same way that you hop 315 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,720 in an EV, you're using fewer emissions. 316 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,960 And if you hop in a fossil fuel driven car, when you use Bitcoin 317 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,520 to transact rather than banking network, again, you're reducing 318 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,720 the net emissions, the net load on the planet. 319 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:50,240 I, I remember from our last conversation that, that we 320 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,520 talked about the people having FUD and the haters and that we 321 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,920 should actually love them, right, instead of burning them 322 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:59,600 on Twitter. But you know, with this, I just 323 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:04,440 think like I, I, I, I think This is why I think about Bitcoin 324 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:09,680 every day in a sense that it's, it is just so ultimately 325 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,160 transparent, but also righteous in a, in a certain way, right? 326 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:17,600 Like it is actually showing that it's a net good for the world in 327 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,720 multiple ways. I don't think we have this 328 00:18:19,720 --> 00:18:22,760 graph, right, but the current Bitcoin mining sustainability, 329 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,920 the percentage is 52% I think or or maybe it's already higher, 330 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,240 right. But but it's over 50%, yeah, 331 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:32,640 like you said, let's let's look at the banking industry like 332 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,120 where are they at? They, they have their mouth full 333 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:38,840 about ESG and all these things. And, and we're doing, you know, 334 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,040 and in their marketing, we're doing the best for the world, 335 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,360 etcetera. But are, are you actually right? 336 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:46,720 And again, with Bitcoin, this is, this is again really proof 337 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,280 of work. It's showing that its incentives 338 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:55,200 again are positively aligned to eventually end up with now 339 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,280 currently over 50% sustainable energy resource, right? 340 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,280 So I, I, yeah, I, I just think it's very cool. 341 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:04,480 The trend here is also up, right? 342 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,800 It's progressing so. Getting more and more every 343 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:09,800 single year. And and there's no comparison 344 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,320 between the bank sector. The bank sector doesn't mitigate 345 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,080 any methane. The bank sector doesn't 346 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:18,080 stabilize. The bank system doesn't help the 347 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,600 profitability of renewable energy. 348 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,840 It doesn't obviate fossil fuel. It doesn't do any of those 349 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,600 things. It doesn't do heat recycling and 350 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,520 it uses way more emissions, right. 351 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,560 So it's and it's tendered to the grid. 352 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,640 So it's the mercy of whatever the grid happens to be. 353 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,080 It doesn't incentivize the usage of wasted energy. 354 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,360 It doesn't encourage innovation in the energy sector and it 355 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,920 doesn't help stabilize grids. It doesn't help bring down power 356 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,480 prices. So again, when you're using 357 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,600 Bitcoin, you have all of those other benefits to humanity that 358 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,720 come along benefits the environment, benefits to 359 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:54,160 humanity and benefits the energy sector that come with it. 360 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,040 So every time you you're using Bitcoin to transact, you are 361 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:05,200 helping promote a more, I would say a technology that is more 362 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,480 part of the life economy rather than what other people would 363 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,160 call the death economy. Yeah, maybe one thing to add, 364 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,560 right? This also helps what we're 365 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,880 talking about. It also helps this is the 366 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,040 literal security of Bitcoin, right? 367 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:24,560 So if Bitcoin gets more adopted, price goes goes up, more people 368 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:30,600 are incentivized to to mine if they can find cheap, cheap 369 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,000 energy sources, which eventually makes security go up and so on 370 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:36,680 and so on, right. So it's a very big part of the 371 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:44,200 flywheel that mining or using Bitcoin mining for these use 372 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,880 cases, for example, when it becomes more popular, it 373 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,200 actually helps Bitcoin as the network, right? 374 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,360 It, it makes it more valuable because the security goes goes 375 00:20:53,360 --> 00:20:54,960 up. And so that eventually also 376 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,400 helps adoption as we're now going to talk about, right. 377 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,520 So there's, there's this flywheel in, in, in this 378 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:02,880 adoption of Bitcoin and, and, and the mining is a very, very 379 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,040 big part. So I. 380 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,040 First started getting interested in sovereign and pension 381 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:12,640 adoption of Bitcoin because Bitcoin's perceived 382 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:17,040 environmental impact at the time back in 2022 was a barrier for 383 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:20,360 them being able to adopt it. That's all changed a lot, but 384 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,440 still it's one of the tick boxes they have to get comfortable 385 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:24,440 with. They have to get comfortable 386 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,480 with how do we custody the asset they have to get comfortable 387 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,280 with. It's not volatile as long as we 388 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,680 have a long investment time frame, which you should if 389 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,240 you're a pension fund or a sovereign fund. 390 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:40,280 And so I show them the 200 week moving average chart a lot and 391 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,480 they have to get comfortable with the risk adjusted returns. 392 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,120 So I show them the sharp ratio chart a lot comparing it to the 393 00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:48,880 stock market and it's always been higher for its risk 394 00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,520 adjusted returns, but they have to be comfortable with that. 395 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:55,000 It's, it's positive for the environment and it's positive to 396 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,880 humanity as well. And this is good for Bitcoin as 397 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,600 well because if you look at institutional capital, the 398 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,360 largest pools of capital in the world are tied up in sovereign 399 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,920 funds or in pension funds. These over $60 trillion of 400 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,200 assets in those funds. Now if those funds took Larry 401 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:18,040 Fink's recommendation, they haven't yet, but they will, 402 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,920 which is to allocate 3% of their portfolio into Bitcoin. 403 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:28,440 The, the impact of that on Bitcoin would be gargantuan. 404 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,360 I mean, price would be triple where it is today. 405 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:33,960 So obviously there's a big number go up consequence, but 406 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,160 there's an even more significant consequence with which is that 407 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,440 it, it normalizes Bitcoin and, and it means that once you have 408 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,040 those large conservative institutions who are comfortable 409 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,160 with it, everyone's comfortable with it from, from an 410 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,640 institutional investment standpoint now, and they will 411 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,600 really help to propagate the message amongst their peers 412 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,160 about why this is a prudent investment in every fund. 413 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:04,680 So the language is changing from it's risky to include Bitcoin to 414 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,640 it's risky not to include Bitcoin. 415 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,720 And the reason it's risky not to include Bitcoin is secondly, 416 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,320 what's been the best performing asset for the last 10 years. 417 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,360 It's had the best risk adjusted returns for the last 10 years. 418 00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:22,360 So if you're looking at other funds, you, you, you risk losing 419 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,680 people's interest as people get more comfortable with Bitcoin 420 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,520 because they're going to increasingly start asking the 421 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,760 question, why are you not including Bitcoin? 422 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,880 Look at Vanguard who failed to have an ETF. 423 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,080 Look at the amount of customers that they lost across to 424 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:42,280 BlackRock and others who did have Bitcoin ETFs and BlackRock 425 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:47,560 who launched the Bitcoin ETF now within a what, a year and a 426 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,680 half? They are an NTF, which is larger 427 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,080 than the gold ETF, which took several decades to get to that 428 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,680 same size. So you end up losing a lot of 429 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,680 potential returns. You end up losing a lot of 430 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,880 investor interest. And because year after year 431 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,040 after year, you have more Gen. Z, you have more millennials who 432 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,560 are looking to invest and they use Bitcoin at a much higher 433 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,640 rate than baby boomers do. So you can see what's happening. 434 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:17,360 There's this kind of this this curve, right, of people who are 435 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:20,600 wanting digital assets and, and they're wanting to get exposure 436 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,600 to them at an institutional level as well. 437 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:25,040 And if institutions can't offer them, then they're going to go 438 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,320 somewhere else. So it's a risk not toll Bitcoin. 439 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,600 So we're seeing a tremendous change in mindset around these 440 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,120 big sovereign funds and pension funds. 441 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:34,960 And the other interesting thing that's happening is at a 442 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,560 sovereign level, you know, the way that most nation states are 443 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:41,600 getting exposure to Bitcoin, it's not through buying it for 444 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:44,000 corporate treasuries, it's through mining it. 445 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:49,360 There are now 10 nations who have got Bitcoin corporate, 446 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:54,160 well, Bitcoin treasuries, right? This is nation state corporate 447 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,200 treasuries and they've acquired it through mining Bitcoin. 448 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,960 And why has it proven to be an easier path? 449 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,920 Well, the same reason that in the states they've said we have 450 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,720 to acquire Bitcoin in a budget neutral way. 451 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,800 So in other words, if they seem to be using quote, UN quote 452 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,920 taxpayer dollars to buy Bitcoin, that's going to get political 453 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,360 pushback. But if they can use it in ways 454 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,240 which is budget neutral, then it won't. 455 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,680 So mining is the best way to do it because it's completely 456 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,880 budget neutral because you're not buying Bitcoin at all. 457 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,080 You're creating it. And if you're doing what 458 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:30,000 Bhutan's doing it and you're creating it using energy that 459 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,320 otherwise would have been wasted because it flowed over the top 460 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,360 of the dam, that's just bounty for everyone. 461 00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,880 And the Bhutan story is incredible. 462 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:42,240 The IMF had all sorts of dire warnings about it destabilizing 463 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,880 the the country, the economy and the energy sector. 464 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,640 It's all ended up stabilizing all three. 465 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,640 And so now people saying, well, do who do we trust? 466 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:52,600 Do we trust the IMF who have made these predictions that 467 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,560 haven't turned out? Or do we trust reality? 468 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,520 Do we trust our own eyes? And, and our own eyes are 469 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:03,280 telling us that Bhutan avoided needing an IMF loan because of 470 00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:06,680 mining Bitcoin. Our own eyes tell us that they 471 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,600 were able to upgrade the airport, they were able to 472 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,640 increase their government salaries by 50%, sometimes 7065% 473 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,600 through using a small fraction of their Bitcoin treasury. 474 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:25,280 And they now have Bitcoin strategic reserves, which is 40% 475 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,680 of their entire GDP. That's massive through mining. 476 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:31,320 Bitcoin. That's Bitcoin maxi. 477 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,920 Territory the exemplification of stay humble. 478 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,640 Yeah, maybe that's a side path, but I think countries that are 479 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,120 less, let's call them less fortunate on the economic side, 480 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:49,800 but very fortunate on the energy side. 481 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,160 Like if they start waking up to this, right? 482 00:26:55,520 --> 00:27:01,080 I, I still think that that is like an undiscussed geopolitical 483 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:06,840 game theoretic subject because it can go very fast as well, 484 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,280 right? I mean, if Bitcoin goes to half 485 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:16,160 a billion that that 40% is maybe going to be 70%. 486 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:17,600 Correct. Right. 487 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,040 And it's this will be a Bitcoin nation. 488 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:22,160 Already you're getting this copycat behavior. 489 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,000 So Pakistan's saying, hey, we want our own yeah, Bitcoin 490 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,240 National Treasury as well. You've got Kurdikstan and 491 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,440 Kazakhstan who are also saying it. 492 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,720 You've got other countries behind them who are saying, hey, 493 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,360 we're watching what's happening in Bhutan. 494 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:39,320 Hey, we have some stranded energy as well. 495 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:44,560 Why don't we mind Bitcoin too? And so suddenly you're seeing 496 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,640 multiple nation states saying we want to copy that playbook. 497 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:53,080 Ethiopia $220 million the state owned energy utility earned over 498 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:56,120 a 12 month period through mining Bitcoin and they've. 499 00:27:56,120 --> 00:28:00,640 They're mining one Bitcoin, sorry for for like 2421 thousand 500 00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,720 dollars or something I saw like that number, I don't know it's. 501 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,560 Less than in other parts of the world because the amount of 502 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,000 energy cost is pretty low over there and absolutely. 503 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:16,680 So what that means is they're able they've got $220 million 504 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,520 they otherwise wouldn't have. Or they may have had it, but 505 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,800 they would have had to export it to another country, but they 506 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,080 would have cost them a lot to build out the transmission lines 507 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,360 to that other country. So maybe they'd only have 50 508 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:29,640 million. Yeah, but also they would have 509 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,920 invested in building transmission lines to take 510 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,880 energy away from their country, which means they're not 511 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,560 delivering energy to their own people. 512 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,840 So what we've done instead is they've got 220 extra 513 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,840 $1,000,000. This is just through the 514 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,560 contracts to other Bitcoin mining companies. 515 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,800 That's apart from the money they've got mining it 516 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,080 themselves, but just in the sale of energy, 220 million. 517 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,320 And they've used that to fast track the building out of 518 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,160 transmission lines and substations, which means now 519 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:00,240 rural Africa is getting electrified at a faster rate 520 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:03,080 than it would have were it not for Bitcoin mining. 521 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,720 If you want to self custody your Bitcoin stack, I recommend the 522 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,880 Blockstream Jade Plus. I've been using this premium 523 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,040 Bitcoin only hardware wallet for a few months now and I love it's 524 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,320 design and ease of use. What makes it stand out is it's 525 00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,240 open source hardware and software and Blockstream's 526 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,480 unique genuine check which make sure that your device is 527 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:27,280 authentic, no back doors or compromises. 528 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:29,920 You can connect with the Jade Plus however you want. 529 00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,440 Bluetooth USBC or you can go fully air gapped with its 530 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,320 building camera for cable free QR transactions. 531 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:40,000 The metal case feels solid and the color screen is easy to read 532 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,160 and it connects with your favorite Bitcoin apps like 533 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,720 Blockstream, Green Sparrow, and Electron. 534 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,720 Get your Jade Plus today at store.blockstream.com and use 535 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,560 Code Bomb to get 10% of your entire order. 536 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,920 Let's talk about something that not a lot of people think about 537 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,760 before it's too late. Where are you storing your 538 00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,320 Bitcoin seed words? Are they truly secure? 539 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,480 I found my solution with Stamp Seat. 540 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,960 It's an elegant all in one titanium plate solution with no 541 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,440 separate pieces to lose or manage. 542 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:12,480 Your seat phrase gets permanently stamped into pure 543 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:16,280 titanium that withstands fire, survives water, and lasts for 544 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,480 generations. And like shallow etching 545 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,880 methods, Stamp Seats petted the tools help you to deeply stamp 546 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,840 every letter for permanent readability, protecting your 547 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:27,880 financial legacy. When you order a titanium seat 548 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,200 plate from Stamp Seat, you can also upload a custom design or 549 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,360 your logo to customize the back of your plate to make it fully 550 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,960 personalized. They proceed phrases are a 551 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,000 disaster waiting to happen. Secure your Bitcoin with Stamp 552 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,520 Seat for decades to come. Visit stampseat.com and use code 553 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,480 BRUM that's BR AM to get 15% of your orders. 554 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,600 You know, nation States and pension funds. 555 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,360 What? We're talking about they are 556 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,480 actually the ones that should have a long term outlook, right? 557 00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,760 So that what they're doing you, you, perhaps by some definition, 558 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,360 you couldn't even call that investing in a sense, right, 559 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,240 Because they, they, they have a long term outlook, especially 560 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:08,320 the pension funds have certain obligations, right for, for 561 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,760 payments in the future from, from the people that, that, that 562 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,840 put money in. So it it is so logical that they 563 00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,920 end up with with Bitcoin. But now we kind of also see the 564 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,600 intricacies right, of the of the first topic we talked about, 565 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,400 like there are certain hurdles that they have to go through. 566 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:31,760 But now that that is becoming more and more clear this so this 567 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:39,400 is Mohamed El Al Aryan, who is a well known professor and and 568 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,880 like finance guy says per per CNBC reporting the strategy 569 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:46,400 favoring gold and Bitcoin now has a name JP Morgan analysts 570 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,400 are calling it the debasement trade. 571 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,640 And obviously this is something that you know, bitcoiners have 572 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,520 been talking about for for for years, right? 573 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,560 But. More common that people use in 574 00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,240 that language. Larry Fink has used similar 575 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,360 language. Ray Dalio has said that it's a 576 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,400 hedge against currency debasement or it's Larry Finger 577 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,360 said it's a hedge against the US government defaulting. 578 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,920 So people are starting to normalize the exactly the things 579 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,000 that Bitcoin Maxis have been talking about for years and say 580 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,040 it's completely legitimate. And if you look at the countries 581 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:25,320 that are adopting Bitcoin, they have two qualities #1 and 2 is 582 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,400 UAE and Singapore. And if you look down the list, 583 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:32,840 you see countries like Switzerland, Hong Kong, Saudi 584 00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,040 Arabia. What do all those countries have 585 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,640 in common? They have great ease of doing 586 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,680 business, and they have very sophisticated financial markets, 587 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,280 are very advanced. But then you also see countries 588 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:52,000 like Thailand, Vietnam, South Africa, Venezuela, Argentina, 589 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,920 Turkey. What are those countries have in 590 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:55,720 common? Well, the last two have 591 00:32:55,720 --> 00:32:58,480 hyperinflation, so massive currency debasement. 592 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:02,760 So if you don't have Bitcoin, then what are you going to do? 593 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,400 You're just going to watch your your pesos or your lira spreader 594 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,080 away in value. Or those countries like Thailand 595 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,720 or Vietnam, they have very low trust in the banking sector. 596 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,120 And there's a reason for that. That's because the banking 597 00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:20,680 sector, and it's been doing a lot of this just over the last 598 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:22,520 two months, is freezing a lot of bank accounts. 599 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:28,640 Of course, the the official reason is we're reducing scams, 600 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,240 but they're closing a lot of bank accounts of people who have 601 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,640 legitimate bank accounts. Maybe they did some work in 602 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,400 Vietnam. Maybe they were digital nomads. 603 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,400 They have an account, but now their account's been closed. 604 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,840 They can't access it. And the only way they can access 605 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:42,800 it, they have to fly back to Vietnam and then they have to 606 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,800 have a digital ID card, which they don't have. 607 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,800 So basically they just lose their money. 608 00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:49,920 And so this is happening. This is rife. 609 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:52,920 And then countries like Lebanon where you put your money into 610 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,160 the bank and good luck if you ever see it again because 611 00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:57,440 they're just closing the doors and saying no, you can't have 612 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,720 it, or maybe you're allowed to have 10% of it. 613 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:04,120 So these are countries where you don't have high trust in the 614 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,840 banking system or you don't have high trust in your national 615 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,600 currency. And so those are the two 616 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,480 flavours of nations that are adopting Bitcoin the fastest, 617 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,520 even they're the most innovative or they're the most desperate, 618 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:17,280 but it's the people in the middle. 619 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,360 They're kind of comfortably numb. 620 00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,719 They're not that innovative, but they're not that desperate 621 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,880 either. They're the ones who have really 622 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,920 been the laggards in facilitating Bitcoin adoption. 623 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:32,280 11 countries I think have the US dollar. 624 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:35,480 As their national currency, 10s, maybe hundreds of millions of 625 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,320 people that actually get the reward for their time and energy 626 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,800 in a currency that another nation can print infinitely, 627 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,760 which is just insane to to think about, right? 628 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:49,320 And so the, the fact that sovereigns are also waking up 629 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,159 not only on the energy side, but also on, you know, the, the 630 00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,199 influence of currency side, I would say is, is very 631 00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:59,080 interesting. And I think you shared, you 632 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,320 shared a report before there, which is this one. 633 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,560 So let's just mention it so people can look it up, right? 634 00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:11,600 It's from the Bitcoin Policy Institute. 635 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,360 Yeah, I can't understand why this isn't getting more 636 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:16,960 circulated because it's so important, the work they're 637 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,840 doing. But what they've shown is that 638 00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,320 the the level of nation state adoption is, is way more than 639 00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:27,680 what we had imagined, that there's now 56 countries this is 640 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,200 at nation state level that have some sort of exposure to 641 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560 Bitcoin. Yeah, which is incredible. 642 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,240 And most of them are doing it through mining, as we said, but 643 00:35:38,240 --> 00:35:41,040 also there's a number of pension funds and sovereign funds who 644 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,440 have started to adopt Bitcoin in these nation states. 645 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,720 And so it's incredible. It's much more advanced than you 646 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:49,880 would know if you were to read the Financial Times or the New 647 00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:53,320 York Times. So it it's actually happening 648 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:56,480 way faster. So it's a classic story where 649 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,880 what you're reading on Bitcoin Twitter, in this case from the 650 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,240 Bitcoin Policy Institute, is giving you an insight into 651 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:04,520 what's actually happening. But there's been really crickets 652 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,120 when it comes to the mainstream media. 653 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,400 It's just not reported at all for whatever reason. 654 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,280 Different nations are looking for ways creatively based on 655 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:18,640 their own unique circumstances to gain Bitcoin and to create 656 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,640 Bitcoin friendly regulations. Just today, Thailand removed 657 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:27,680 capital gain tax on Bitcoin. So you can imagine when a whole 658 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,120 nation does that, then suddenly a whole lot of people were 659 00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,680 saying I wouldn't mind liquidating a little bit of my 660 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,760 Bitcoin, but maybe if I was a tax resident of Thailand, that'd 661 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,600 be more attractive. And suddenly it's going to 662 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,400 attract people to that country, It's going to attract digital 663 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,080 nomads, it's going to attract innovation. 664 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,200 So these are very smart moves because again, we're so early, 665 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:51,120 it's only three, four, 5% of the world who have exposure to 666 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,400 Bitcoin. But as that rises, the countries 667 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,760 who are ahead of the bull in terms of creating these 668 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,640 attractive environments that embrace Bitcoin are going to do 669 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,800 extremely well. Not only through the Bitcoin 670 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:09,480 strategic reserves that build up value both in Fiat denominated 671 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,480 terms and in Bitcoin denominated terms, but in the the talent 672 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,640 they can attract to the country. Yeah, I think two things here. 673 00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:19,200 What I find interesting is, and I wonder what you think 674 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:23,320 actually, if if you adopt Bitcoin as a country, I think 675 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:28,840 you're also incentivized to start mining, to start start 676 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,920 securing the network to having a certain percentage of the hash 677 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:38,080 rate to later on make sure that whatever transaction you want to 678 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,600 go through, you know will will eventually go through. 679 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:45,120 And that by accident, you also mine your adversaries 680 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,480 transactions, which is the which is the point of Bitcoin, right? 681 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,000 I think that is the very, very big picture is that eventually 682 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,080 This is Money for your enemies and you will be incentivized to 683 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,640 also mine the transactions of your enemies. 684 00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,680 But if you want to make sure that yours also true, you have 685 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:06,480 to start contributing to the hash rate as well, right? 686 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,040 Which as we talked about kind of adds to that, to that flywheel 687 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:11,880 and makes Bitcoin even more attractive. 688 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,640 And 2nd to that, I had a few weeks ago someone told me that 689 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:22,120 for example, in the US now that Bitcoin is also in a lot of 690 00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,600 pension funds, right? Or my strategy is in a lot of 691 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:29,680 pension funds that now that that has been allocated the political 692 00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:33,960 motivation or the opportunity, I would say to, to possibly ban 693 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,120 air quotes, a Bitcoin has kind of disappeared, right? 694 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:41,560 It, it has become an unpopular thing to add to your platform. 695 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,760 And I thought it was very interesting because I never 696 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,800 really realized that. But this one election perhaps 697 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,960 even did that around the world, Although, you know, I, I just 698 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:56,000 made a joke, but I think in Europe, the hate for Trump also 699 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,760 makes them dismiss Bitcoin, for example, right? 700 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:01,520 Like he's crazy. Then Bitcoin sucks as well, 701 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:06,280 which it's kind of fine because it ties into more like the 702 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:08,600 global game theory. Like if you stay behind with, 703 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,440 you know, the, the gunpowder example of safety and like, you 704 00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:14,200 can discuss whether or not you want gunpowder, but by the time 705 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:18,080 you've made a decision, you have a headshot basically and, and, 706 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,400 and, and you're too late, right? And so, yeah, I think that's 707 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,040 also something that is slowly happening. 708 00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:26,640 But yeah, what what are your thoughts there? 709 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:30,920 Is that something you see too? Yeah, it's an interesting point 710 00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:38,120 in terms of adoption. The whole neuro association with 711 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,000 Bitcoin and Trump has it's it's had some real positives, there's 712 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,760 no doubt about it. And it's also meant that some 713 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,920 other people have stood at the sidelines for, for, as you say, 714 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:51,200 for no reason more sophisticated than, well, Trump's using it. 715 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,200 He's my enemy, therefore Bitcoin's my enemy, which is 716 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,080 crazy. It's like saying back in the 717 00:39:57,080 --> 00:40:02,600 day, someone is using the Internet, who is my political 718 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:04,400 enemy, therefore I'm not going to use the Internet. 719 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:07,800 All that's going to happen is you're going to get behind. 720 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,880 Your best recourse is to use that for the values you care 721 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:13,760 about, because otherwise your values. 722 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,560 Are not going to be well spread if you'd avoid the Internet and 723 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,160 if you avoid Bitcoin then you're going to be avoiding well 724 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:24,960 firstly the best asset class of the last 10 years and the next 725 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:28,080 10 years and beyond. But but also all of those things 726 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,440 that that gives you all those benefits of Bitcoin by shutting 727 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:36,520 yourself out. So Bitcoin is for anyone who 728 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,440 wants to use it. And I think most people 729 00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:44,600 understand that the the majority of people around the world and 730 00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:46,360 say, well, So what if Donald Trump's using it? 731 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,640 So is Bhutan and they're using it in a more socialist way. 732 00:40:51,240 --> 00:40:53,520 A lot of people don't agree with how bit points using it. 733 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,080 They say what a waste of money putting up government salaries. 734 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,080 They should be cutting the government workers. 735 00:40:58,080 --> 00:40:59,480 Well, that's up to them what they want to do with it. 736 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:00,640 Let them do what they want to do. 737 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,400 So people use it in libertarian ways, people use it in 738 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,760 conservative ways, people use it in socialist ways. 739 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:08,600 People use it in whatever way they want which is consistent 740 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,200 with their values. It's a tool which is open to 741 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:15,040 anyone who wants to use it. And to say my enemy, my 742 00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:17,680 political enemy is using it, therefore I won't is actually 743 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,120 quite funny I think. And to your earlier point, 744 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,640 you're absolutely right. Countries are geopolitically 745 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:25,880 incentivized to mine it so that no country can gain too much of 746 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,360 the network securitization ability. 747 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:29,840 Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. 748 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,960 And that's also something that I heard you talk about on I think 749 00:41:33,960 --> 00:41:39,200 another podcast where you shared that like the, the, the biggest 750 00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:43,240 miner in Bitcoin has like 6% and it's like 5 1/2, five, etcetera. 751 00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:44,760 We're not talking about pools, right? 752 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,000 We're talking about individual companies and then you mentioned 753 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,760 like there there isn't any other industry that is actually that 754 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,600 decentralized in terms of usually there's like 1 to 755 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:59,680 perhaps three players that have, let's say 80% of a of a market, 756 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,040 right? But in Bitcoin that is, is not 757 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:04,240 the not the case. Can you share a bit about? 758 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,040 We'll look at search. For example, how many search 759 00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:09,680 engines do you have that people use? 760 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:14,440 You have 1 maybe, I don't know, is there any other search 761 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:15,920 engines? Some people may still use Bing, 762 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:18,520 but there's basically one. Let's look at phones. 763 00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:19,800 How many types of phones are there? 764 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:24,200 There's basically two or three manufacturers of of smartphones. 765 00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,120 So we don't have this massive choice. 766 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,600 Let's look at automobile manufacturers, which is much 767 00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:34,640 more decentralized. What is the market share of the 768 00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:36,280 largest one? Well, it's over 10%. 769 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,000 And then if you start to look around the world, these 770 00:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,520 different industries, it's very rare that the largest example of 771 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,680 that industry has less than 10% of the entire industry. 772 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:52,680 So when you have Bitcoin and the largest one, the largest two, 773 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,480 number two at the moment is cango #1 is Mara. 774 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,800 And you're talking 6%, five and a half percent. 775 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,040 These are tiny amounts relatively. 776 00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,720 So it's already very decentralized. 777 00:43:03,720 --> 00:43:06,120 And because of the economic incentives we were talking about 778 00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,160 beforehand, which encourages you to go to the edge of the world 779 00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:13,840 to source cheap energy, it's becoming more decentralized all 780 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:15,200 the time. Yeah. 781 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,920 All right, so let's switch to to our last topic, but I wanted to 782 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,480 show one more image that you also shared. 783 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,360 So there are still countries that outlaw Bitcoin, which is 784 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,480 funny, of course, because it's it's it's an open source 785 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,400 computer protocol and and anyone can use it so. 786 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,280 You. You could ban it, but you cannot 787 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,920 stop anyone from using it. I saw Algeria here, Morocco a 788 00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:41,600 little. Great little image. 789 00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,240 This is put out by river. They put out some really nice 790 00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,560 data, but what it shows is that there are 15 countries who have 791 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,480 unbanned Bitcoin or Bitcoin mining and only nine countries 792 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:56,080 who still ban it. So you're in the minority if 793 00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:01,600 you're still trying to, you know, ban the Internet, ban 794 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,320 gunpowder, ban Bitcoin. The same thing is happening 795 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:06,560 that's happened to all of those industries, which is you're in a 796 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,000 a very increasingly lonely minority and all you're doing is 797 00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:12,320 you're holding your country back. 798 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,240 And this is perfectly fine, right? 799 00:44:15,240 --> 00:44:17,520 Because this is also part of which you're entitled to do of 800 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:20,280 of the game theory. So yeah, this is great. 801 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:24,960 All right, let's move on to our last topic, which is the social 802 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,920 and humanitarian value of of Bitcoin. 803 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,280 You brought you, you shared 2 two things with me. 804 00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,760 I think this is. One report, yeah, this is 805 00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,400 something I'm really excited about because again, if you look 806 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,920 at how is it that you're going to get more Bitcoin adoption in 807 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,480 the general population, one thing I think we can all agree 808 00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,880 with is this cycle, retail has really set it out. 809 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:51,240 For the most part, the retail adoption has not increased in 810 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:56,120 the US certainly it was 48 million last year, it's 48 811 00:44:56,120 --> 00:45:00,400 million this year. That's that's zero rate of 812 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:02,360 increase. Other parts of the world are 813 00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,560 growing exponentially, but retail investors in the West do 814 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:09,440 not seem to be. And part of the reason is that 815 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,280 people saying, well, is it really for me? 816 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:14,760 It seems to be for my ideological enemies, which again 817 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:18,560 as we've discussed is it's a flawed way to look at it, but 818 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:21,480 that is the newer association that's there. 819 00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,520 So it's really important that we share stories which appear and 820 00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:30,120 appeal to people's values just right across the political 821 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:34,960 spectrum. And one of the the best ways to 822 00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,640 do that is to share more of the humanitarian benefits of 823 00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:41,880 Bitcoin. So This is why the Human Rights 824 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,440 Foundation is one of the most important organizations we have 825 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,760 because they are continually promoting and documenting people 826 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,880 who are using it for human rights, people who are using it 827 00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:59,880 for social good day in day out. Now this report here is put 828 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,920 together by the Digital Assets Research Institute. 829 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,280 It was funded with the support of the Human Rights Foundation 830 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,920 and it was looking at how are people outside the West using 831 00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,000 Bitcoin and particularly one community of people who hasn't 832 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:16,320 been widely researched before and that's refugees. 833 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:22,000 And what they were interested in is saying, OK, we know that in 834 00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:24,600 theory. We've heard stories, we've heard 835 00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,000 anecdotes. There was the one through I 836 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,440 think CNNA couple of years ago about the Ukrainian refugee. 837 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,440 You probably heard of Bram, who fled across the border, I think 838 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,840 to Poland. And he had two thousand U.S. 839 00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,240 dollars on this little thumb drive, and it was a Bitcoin. 840 00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:40,520 And he used that in order to set up his livelihood again. 841 00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:45,840 And so then the question came, well, how many people like that 842 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,680 are there around the world? And so the Digital Assets 843 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,200 Research Institute put together a study and they looked at how 844 00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,040 many refugees they were. They were in the world. 845 00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:59,240 They looked at the Bitcoin adoption rates for these 846 00:46:59,240 --> 00:47:02,640 countries. They looked at whether you were 847 00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:06,040 more likely or less likely to use Bitcoin if you're a refugee, 848 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,600 and they came up with some very conservative actually 849 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,640 projections of how many people we think have been using it 850 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:16,840 already. And the number was over 300,000. 851 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,600 Refugees have used Bitcoin to flee across borders. 852 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,360 Now, this is phenomenal because what that means is 2 things. 853 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:28,360 Number one, a lot of countries around the world are trying to 854 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,440 stop the inflow of refugees because politically they're seen 855 00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,760 as being a drain on the economy. They bring nothing and we have 856 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,240 to subsidise them and support them. 857 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,120 That's the narrative not from everyone, but from some people 858 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,240 in in the countries that refugees are coming into. 859 00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,360 But imagine if these refugees actually brought wealth with 860 00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:48,720 them. Of course they bring many 861 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:50,000 wealths. They bring cultural wells, all 862 00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:51,720 sorts of wells. But imagine if they also were 863 00:47:51,720 --> 00:47:54,120 able to bring financial wealth with them, which they can't 864 00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:55,200 currently. They have to leave everything 865 00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,200 behind. Try taking gold across the 866 00:47:57,200 --> 00:47:58,880 border. Try taking cash across the 867 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,720 border. Try queuing at an ATM during the 868 00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:06,480 outbreak of war, as people tried to do in Ukraine, when they have 869 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,400 like $40 cash limits and queues that are three hours long and 870 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,520 you have to risk your life to queue to get a meezy little bit 871 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:14,480 of money. Not going to happen. 872 00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:16,760 But you can take Bitcoin across borders. 873 00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:21,080 So what happens if governments cannot freeze your bank accounts 874 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,440 and you can take your money with you? 875 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,920 Now you come to another country and you have the assets that you 876 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:30,720 had, and if you were smart and you put all of your assets into 877 00:48:30,720 --> 00:48:34,320 the digital economy, you have 100% of your assets preserved 878 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,440 and able to be reused anywhere in the world. 879 00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,800 That now completely changes the equation of how many refugees 880 00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,240 can be welcomed into the country. 881 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,720 It stops that political pushback you might have, but more 882 00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,440 importantly to the refugee themselves, it means that you 883 00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,120 can start with something rather than starting with nothing. 884 00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:54,800 It means you're not destitute. It means you don't have that 885 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,280 feeling of being dependent upon other people to support you 886 00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:00,640 financially. You have something to which with 887 00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:04,240 which to re establish your life and 300,000 people have that. 888 00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:09,840 The projection is it'll be more than 6 million people by 2035 S 889 00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:13,840 I just find it fascinating that it's still possible people can 890 00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:15,640 say where's the use case for Bitcoin? 891 00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,800 We're right under our own eyes, just one community, people. 892 00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:21,920 We're seeing one of the most phenomenal use cases at an 893 00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:25,240 existential level towards the basic human dignity of being 894 00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:28,480 able to take your assets with you when you're forced to flee 895 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,960 across the border. It's extremely exciting. 896 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,600 And it's one of the stories that that when people hear those 897 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:37,880 stories, they start to soften their stance towards Bitcoin. 898 00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:43,400 They start to realize that, OK, yeah, my political enemies might 899 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,920 be using it, but so are destitute people, so are people 900 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:49,400 in more torn countries. And maybe I need to look a 901 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,440 little bit outside my own world of privilege to the way the rest 902 00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:57,240 of the world looks to a little bit more than what I have today, 903 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:00,920 Open up my eyes and say, wow, this is actually solving some 904 00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,680 existential problems. And you start there and then 905 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:09,520 before you know it, you realize that for every refugee who's 906 00:50:09,520 --> 00:50:12,800 using Bitcoin, there are maybe 30 people who are using it 907 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,160 within their country. In a way which is just 908 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:19,320 important. Either to avoid the erosion of 909 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,640 wealth through hyperinflation, to be able to receive remittance 910 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:27,160 payments and not lose 15% of it, or simply to be able to protest 911 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:31,480 against your government safely without fear of being tracked or 912 00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,920 having reprisals, or having your funding cut for saying the wrong 913 00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,160 thing or doing the wrong thing. And Bitcoin provides all of 914 00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:43,120 that. It it already immediately shows 915 00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:47,240 you that the system you're participating in doesn't make 916 00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:49,720 you an actor, but the better subject, right? 917 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:52,760 And so there is no difference in that sense, again, between 918 00:50:53,640 --> 00:50:56,200 basically people anywhere in the world because all the money 919 00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:59,240 systems are, are, are the same. So you are just lucky if you're 920 00:50:59,240 --> 00:51:01,800 in a Western country. But you, you eventually have the 921 00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,600 same problem. Yeah. 922 00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:10,080 I don't know if you saw this today, but this is a new essay 923 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,680 from Alex Gladstein, who's chief strategy officer at Human Rights 924 00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,720 Foundation. Yeah, very cool. 925 00:51:17,720 --> 00:51:20,800 It's, it's why Bitcoin is freedom money. 926 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:23,120 And it's like a collection of these, these stories. 927 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:27,560 So there's 99 parts. So if you look up Gladstein on 928 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:31,200 X, you can find this this post. And then there's amazing 929 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,720 examples of using Bitcoin as a currency inside Afghanistan. 930 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,160 How you know, French colonial history in Central and West 931 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:42,320 Africa, by the way, Also amazing, right? 932 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:46,360 The Central African African Frank, where there's like 7 933 00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,920 countries, I think that use the currency that still controls and 934 00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:53,440 prints, right? So yeah, Bitcoin is a solution 935 00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:57,680 to problems that are here today, maybe not where you live in the 936 00:51:57,680 --> 00:52:00,680 Western world, but slowly but surely, by the way, but 937 00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:02,960 definitely in, in other places in the world. 938 00:52:03,520 --> 00:52:06,960 And so, yeah, I thought this was a really interesting publication 939 00:52:06,960 --> 00:52:09,360 that I I put on my my reading list. 940 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:12,040 Yeah, it's really important work. 941 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,760 And my goodness, once you start looking into the Central African 942 00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:22,200 franc and you realized just what a freedom removing system that 943 00:52:22,200 --> 00:52:26,000 is to have your whole national currency printed in another 944 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:31,080 country and therefore able to be debased within another country 945 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,920 without your permission overnight, as has happened 946 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,680 multiple times, and wake up in the morning and find that the 947 00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,720 dollars, well, they're not dollars, but the currency you 948 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:43,960 hold is now worth 40% less. You can only buy 60% of what 949 00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:47,480 you're used to yesterday. It's not reasonable, but this is 950 00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:51,080 the many countries in the world. Yeah, well, and the natural 951 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:56,240 resources export of your country to the country that is creating 952 00:52:56,240 --> 00:53:00,520 your currency, that's the most obvious scam that. 953 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:04,680 The complete scam yeah, military colonialism has finished, but a 954 00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,320 much better instrument and a much more subtle and invasive 955 00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,200 one has taken its place, which is financial colonialism. 956 00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:13,080 And that's exactly the way it works because yeah, you debase 957 00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:15,640 the currency, suddenly you can extract uranium for your. 958 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,600 The French nuclear program for a song from these countries that 959 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,440 were former colonies but really effectively still are. 960 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:23,960 It's incredible. It would just look at the 961 00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:27,160 economics of it. And The funny thing is that any 962 00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,200 country, they might say, well, why don't they form their own 963 00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:31,600 currency? But you know, there's a funny 964 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:36,160 thing that happens when these former French companies do that. 965 00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:39,240 Then suddenly, coincidentally, there's these coups that just 966 00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:42,000 randomly happen. These people get replaced. 967 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,920 It's very coincidental. And it seems to happen routinely 968 00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,800 every single time without fail when someone tries to institute 969 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,680 their own currency. But you can't do that with 970 00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,080 Bitcoin. So it's really as hopeful, not 971 00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,760 just these fourteen countries that are on the Central African, 972 00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,040 Frank, and not just the entire African continent. 973 00:53:57,960 --> 00:54:01,800 But as you say, we're starting to see how even in the West, we 974 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,640 don't see it to the same extent, but we started to get hints of 975 00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:09,000 it, and we're not immune to some of these same issues ourselves. 976 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:16,080 Yeah, yeah, 100%. I think this were like or are 977 00:54:16,080 --> 00:54:19,640 three topics that are in my opinion also not not talked 978 00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,080 about enough. Perhaps they well, I, I think 979 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:25,920 definitely they are more impactful than just price go 980 00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:27,840 going up. That gets a lot of attention 981 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:32,320 obviously. But yeah, I think this also kind 982 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:35,000 of shows that it, it is not an investment. 983 00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:40,800 It is just way, way more than you think on the surface. 984 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,440 And it takes time to to to see that, right. 985 00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:48,320 But I think it's very cool that, you know, compared to 2013, 986 00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:53,880 1415, yeah, this wasn't even in the picture, right. 987 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,600 And within 10 years, we have very serious things going on 988 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:03,640 that yeah, actually make the case for Bitcoin even more 989 00:55:03,640 --> 00:55:06,520 substantial, right. And, and, and I think also the 990 00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,760 possibility of it surviving and, and becoming the thing that we 991 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:13,360 think it is also there. So I think it's very, very cool 992 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,160 that we got to shed a light on that. 993 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,800 Is is there anything that you would want to add to, to what we 994 00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:19,360 discussed that you think we missed? 995 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:21,040 I. Want to say one thing, and that 996 00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:24,600 is that number go up and freedom go up ready to go hand in hand. 997 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,600 One supports the other. Because the ironic thing is when 998 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:33,400 number goes up, then a lot of these freedom go up projects 999 00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,600 become more viable, of course, because there's just more money 1000 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:42,880 in the whole ecosystem. And similarly, when we allow 1001 00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:45,600 these stories about freedom go up, these stories about that, 1002 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,240 Alex Placestein's telling, Human Rights Foundation's telling, the 1003 00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:51,280 Digital Assets Research Institute's telling about how 1004 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:54,360 Bitcoin is being used as a tool of freedom around the world. 1005 00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:57,560 It inspires people, inspires people in sovereign funds and 1006 00:55:57,560 --> 00:55:59,600 pension funds. It inspires governments, it 1007 00:55:59,600 --> 00:56:02,600 inspires regulators, it inspires policy makers, it inspires 1008 00:56:02,600 --> 00:56:05,120 retail investors to get behind Bitcoin. 1009 00:56:05,360 --> 00:56:07,760 And that has an impact on number go up. 1010 00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,240 So I don't see them as these distinct groups. 1011 00:56:10,240 --> 00:56:13,800 I see that one supports the other and they both go very much 1012 00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,520 hand in hand. So I know there's a lot of 1013 00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:18,480 people who say, well, why are we talking about sovereign funds 1014 00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,000 and pension funds? That's not what Bitcoin is 1015 00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:21,440 about. Bitcoin is about everything. 1016 00:56:21,640 --> 00:56:24,480 It's like, that's like saying we shouldn't have banks using the 1017 00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,240 Internet. It's like everyone can use the 1018 00:56:26,240 --> 00:56:27,880 Internet. Institutional investors can use 1019 00:56:27,880 --> 00:56:31,760 it, peace activists can use it. It's a tool which is going to 1020 00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:36,200 create net good for humanity across the board and some very, 1021 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:38,800 very unique ways. So number go up and freedom go 1022 00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:40,400 up. They support each other. 1023 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:43,360 Awesome. I think that's a great wrap up. 1024 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,320 Thanks again for your time. I really appreciate it. 1025 00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,400 And yeah, now maybe we can have a certain cadence with a little 1026 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,000 less time in between, but I think we'll definitely. 1027 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,520 Seems are involved. These stories are evolving 1028 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:57,520 pretty fast, aren't they? So that'll be fun. 1029 00:56:58,240 --> 00:56:59,600 Awesome. And well, thanks so much. 1030 00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:00,600 I appreciate it. Cheers. 1031 00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,280 I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, you can click here 1032 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:07,640 to find more just like it and click here to find all Bitcoin 1033 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,680 for Millennials podcast episodes. 1034 00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:13,200 Also, please like this video if you want to help shine a light 1035 00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,200 on the message of Bitcoin and subscribe to my channel to stay 1036 00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:18,400 connected. I hope to see you for a next 1037 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:19,360 episode. Bye.