1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,560
It just takes a lot of time and 
effort to actually make good 

2
00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:06,800
art. 
Then like Bitcoin reintroduces 

3
00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:10,160
this into the society. 
So I'm actually hopeful that 

4
00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:13,560
Bitcoin will get us back onto 
this renaissance of art and 

5
00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,840
music because it gives you the 
this long term perspective to 

6
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,840
actually be sure, OK, I can 
focus on my craft. 

7
00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,040
I have a little bit of money on 
the side which I know it's not 

8
00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,840
going to be inflated away. 
I can plan for the next 5 years.

9
00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,280
Everyone quick thing before we 
start. 

10
00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,760
Over 50,000 of you keep coming 
back to watch and listen to this

11
00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,920
podcast, but over 65% of you 
still haven't subscribed yet. 

12
00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,440
So here's my simple ask. 
If you find value in my Bitcoin 

13
00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,400
content and you enjoy what I'm 
doing, please take a second to 

14
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,760
hit subscribe on YouTube or 
follow me on your go to 

15
00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:53,440
podcasting app. 
It's a small action that really 

16
00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,520
helps push my content through 
the algorithm and this way we 

17
00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,400
can make sure that more people 
learn about Bitcoin. 

18
00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:01,080
Thanks for being part of this 
journey. 

19
00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,360
Now let's dive into this 
episode. 

20
00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,640
All right, Max DeMarco, welcome 
to Bitcoin for Millennials. 

21
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:09,000
Thanks for having me man, it's 
good to be here. 

22
00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,720
Yeah, well, good to see you 
again. 

23
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,120
We met in real life now, now 
we're here. 

24
00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,920
So I think we'll have a fun, a 
fun jam. 

25
00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:19,200
You've been travelling all 
around. 

26
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:21,520
I would definitely want to talk 
about that. 

27
00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:25,480
Of course, you are also 
attempting to live the Bitcoin 

28
00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,560
life. 
I would say, you know, sometimes

29
00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:29,040
it works out, sometimes it 
doesn't. 

30
00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,360
So I think I think that's a fun 
topic to Gem about. 

31
00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,560
But yeah, I was thinking maybe 
maybe to start, you know, like 

32
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,320
you are fully orange built right
now. 

33
00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:38,480
You even got the orange, orange 
glasses on. 

34
00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,240
Yes. 
I wanted to ask you like, how 

35
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:44,600
did you first become interested 
in Bitcoin or finance? 

36
00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,840
Yeah. 
So I was working in the music 

37
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:49,960
industry before, before I was 
like Orange Build. 

38
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,600
So even before I made videos, I 
actually wanted to become a 

39
00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,200
musician and like audio 
producer. 

40
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,240
So I was working in that space 
for quite a while. 

41
00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,600
And then at some point there was
this blockchain technology which

42
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,720
was marketed as revolutionary 
for the music industry. 

43
00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,320
So I was looking into it and I 
thought, Oh my God, the 

44
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,120
blockchain is going to solve all
of the problems the music 

45
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,880
industry has. 
And then I was involved in 

46
00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,640
creating a basically a shit coin
for the European Union. 

47
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:25,200
It was a concept for the music 
industry to create, create one 

48
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,280
coin, which is only usable in 
the music industry and which 

49
00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:34,480
then what was supposed to help 
musicians to actually earn a 

50
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,080
living. 
And so I was on the business 

51
00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,000
side of that project. 
And while researching this, I 

52
00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,320
kind of at some point figured 
out that this actually doesn't 

53
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:50,040
make sense and that Bitcoin is 
the only way or the only reason 

54
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,440
for a blockchain. 
So that's how I basically got 

55
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:55,520
Orange built. 
It took me a little bit longer 

56
00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,560
because I had no idea about 
finance, I had no idea about 

57
00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:04,720
money and only came towards the 
technology by thinking that the 

58
00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,160
new applications will be the 
thing, the killer app, so to 

59
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,120
say. 
So then I dove down, learning 

60
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:14,480
what money is, learning about 
the technology and so on, but 

61
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,640
initially from the music 
industry and by by being 

62
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,920
convinced that blockchain will 
actually make the music industry

63
00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:24,840
a better place. 
Yeah, I love that the the the 

64
00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,960
killer app is money, right? 
And once you understand the 

65
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,280
killer app is money, you also 
understand that, you know, all 

66
00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,160
the broken incentives that a lot
of tokens, right, or systems try

67
00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,440
to fix. 
Same for music industry, I would

68
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,040
say. 
I, I think, you know, I, I saw a

69
00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,160
lot of crypto and web tree 
projects as well, right? 

70
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,400
I I think the concept in the 
music industry, right, that 

71
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,880
artists can sell tokens for 
their album, for example, and 

72
00:03:51,880 --> 00:03:52,960
share in the royalty and 
whatever. 

73
00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,800
Like conceptually it's all, you 
know, makes sense. 

74
00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:02,880
But yeah, once you realize that 
that is broken because, you 

75
00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,560
know, the entire chain of 
incentives in a creative 

76
00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,200
industry, which, you know, in 
this example is music, but you 

77
00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,200
could say art or whatever, you 
know, it's basically broken 

78
00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:14,360
then. 
Yeah, you, you slowly end up at 

79
00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:17,800
Bitcoin. 
I mean, yeah, I had a similar 

80
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,200
experience when I looked at 
that. 

81
00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:23,760
And it's funny because like also
the root cause is so deep 

82
00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,400
because you could even say that 
all the art, all the music and 

83
00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,560
everything is kind of corrupted 
by Fiat money. 

84
00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:32,120
And it's so hard to see this if 
you don't understand money. 

85
00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,320
It I, I had this problem in the 
music industry where I didn't 

86
00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,000
understand why people actually 
value good music anymore. 

87
00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:42,120
And so I worked for a major 
label and I was, I, I was the 

88
00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,440
guy it's called A and RI was the
guy searching new music and then

89
00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:48,760
actually developing it to, to 
make it successful. 

90
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,760
And at some point basically the 
all industry pivoted into just 

91
00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,640
using influencers or using Tik 
tokers, putting them into a 

92
00:04:56,640 --> 00:05:00,840
studio and making shitty songs 
and actually just throwing money

93
00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:04,400
on marketing to make the song 
workout and to recoup the money 

94
00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,880
that was invested. 
And I, I never understood why 

95
00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:11,440
this was the case until I 
understood money, because it's 

96
00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,400
just the cheap money which 
drives those wrongly set 

97
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,880
incentives, which is not about 
actually creating good art like 

98
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:22,240
it was in the 60s, seventies. 
And yeah, by getting orange 

99
00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,600
peeled, I actually understood 
why I had this this problem with

100
00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,480
the music industry. 
And yeah, now that's why I think

101
00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,600
it's so important to actually 
study money, because it touches 

102
00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:35,240
so many different aspects and 
can explain quite a lot, which 

103
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:37,880
in the first instance you don't 
think that this is connected to 

104
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,000
money. 
Yeah, yeah, I love that you 

105
00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:41,360
mentioned that. 
I would love to drill down on 

106
00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,640
that because it's kind of like 
I've talked about this before 

107
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,120
more in like about like 
architecture or. 

108
00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,280
Yeah, I always use the fountain 
example, Like why is the traffic

109
00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:52,560
fountain in Rome? 
That is just a beautiful thing, 

110
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,080
right? 
And that is, it doesn't have to 

111
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,080
be your taste, but you can agree
that it's beautiful, right? 

112
00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,040
And nowadays I'm thinking like 
what? 

113
00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,120
What's, what is a beautiful 
fountain that we know that has 

114
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,640
been built in the last 10 years 
or like a few months ago I was 

115
00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:11,240
in a building in Antwerp that 
was from 1552 or something. 

116
00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:14,640
And I was also thinking when, 
when was something built in the 

117
00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,920
last, I don't know, 40 years 
that will stand 500 years, you 

118
00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,600
know, like have that quality. 
And also when you look at the 

119
00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,240
like old ornaments and stuff on 
the building like that, like 

120
00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,720
it's just again, doesn't have to
be your taste, but you know, 

121
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:29,880
it's craftsmanship, right? 
Like, you know, it's beautiful. 

122
00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:31,800
And I think it's the same same 
with music. 

123
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,560
But like how? 
And I like this path because it 

124
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,560
goes pretty deep, pretty quick. 
But like, how would you take 

125
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:41,960
people along that recognition, I
would say, or how how did that 

126
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,080
go for you? 
Like when, Where does that 

127
00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,880
click? 
So I mean, as you say, in music,

128
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,520
we have the same thing. 
It's kind of like all of these 

129
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,440
big, big artists, like let's say
even back to Bach, Mozart and 

130
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,840
all of this kind of stuff. 
This is music which just it's 

131
00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:59,600
still being played around the 
world, right? 

132
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,160
It's like it's the craftsmanship
and the actual talent which 

133
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:09,080
needed to get into building this
craft was so immense that it 

134
00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,560
actually outlasted them for 500.
I don't know how how many years,

135
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,160
but it's like it's like, if you 
think about it is it's insane 

136
00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,560
comparing this with somebody 
like, I don't know, Nicki Minaj,

137
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:23,080
for example, you know, who's 
highly successful and making a 

138
00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:25,360
lot of money. 
But I highly doubt that her 

139
00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,440
music is relevant within the 
next 5 to 10 years. 

140
00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,120
It's like, yeah, that she's 
going to probably produce new 

141
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,600
songs, but it's just the cycle 
of appreciating this. 

142
00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:38,000
The music is is just so trend 
based right now. 

143
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:43,000
It doesn't it's not about the 
quality anymore because quality 

144
00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,520
doesn't really help in the short
term. 

145
00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,040
It's just about virality. 
And I think this virality which 

146
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,600
is kind of introduced by social 
media and the algorithms, it 

147
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,640
always has an impact on the 
music. 

148
00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:57,840
So if we look at different 
mediums, for example, that or 

149
00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,560
technologies, let's say 
technologies, because every 

150
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,800
technology has an impact on the 
art and the craft. 

151
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,800
So for example, every if you 
compare the classical music, all

152
00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:11,760
of the songs or are like between
5 to 15 minutes, sometimes even 

153
00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,880
30 minutes and stuff like that. 
But today or most of the radio 

154
00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,840
songs are three minutes 30. 
And the only reason why that is,

155
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:24,120
is because the technology to put
something into the radio was the

156
00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,840
the vinyl, vinyl play, how do 
you call it the plates exactly? 

157
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,240
Yeah, yeah. 
And the final words. 

158
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,240
Yeah. 
Exactly. 

159
00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,919
You were not able to play longer
songs than 3 minutes. 

160
00:08:35,919 --> 00:08:40,200
Thirty onto that, so it was just
a technological technological 

161
00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:42,520
problem. 
So you could have even not even 

162
00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:46,960
put any bahhole Mozart on that. 
So This is why the musician 

163
00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,880
then, because this is how you 
made money. 

164
00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,800
Actually, the music changed as 
well by only producing or making

165
00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,920
3 minutes thirty. 
And so we had this and then with

166
00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,560
CDs this limitations kind of got
a little bit lowered and we had 

167
00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:04,080
MP threes where this was a 
little bit it wasn't that much 

168
00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,000
of a problem anymore. 
But now we have streaming and 

169
00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,760
social media and all the 
algorithms which are new 

170
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,760
technology which do exactly the 
same thing. 

171
00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:17,120
Whereas if you compare like Pink
Floyd or even Queen or like all 

172
00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,720
of the old songs, they had like 
an intro, then at some point 

173
00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,960
it's like, did you have the 
chorus and then it's an outro at

174
00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,960
the in between you have a 
different ripple parks. 

175
00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,160
But now because the attention 
span with social media is so low

176
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:36,680
and Spotify as well, Spotify 
counts a click or a song when 

177
00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:38,800
somebody listens more than 30 
seconds. 

178
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:42,920
So this is the incentive for an 
artist to make money by having 

179
00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:46,800
the 3030 seconds as cool as 
possible, let's say. 

180
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,880
So this is when now the songs 
are not like they will spend 10 

181
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,360
years ago. 
The songs now have all the 

182
00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,120
chorus and the referral at the 
1st 30 seconds. 

183
00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,680
And then kind of the song 
starts. 

184
00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:59,840
And I think because of this, 
which is basically just also 

185
00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:03,120
about how do I make the most 
money in the short amount of 

186
00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,160
time the music changes. 
And I think it's, it's, it's, 

187
00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,240
it's OK in that sense because 
this is just the progress of 

188
00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:15,640
evolution. 
But by combining this with cheap

189
00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,800
money where you can just pay 
marketing on like algorithms on 

190
00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,320
Google and so on, It kind of is 
like you can game the 

191
00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:27,840
appreciation of a song, which 
wasn't able to do before because

192
00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,240
you needed to actually put in 
the proof of work to make a good

193
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:31,920
song. 
And now it's just you make it 

194
00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,200
viral, you pay tick tock, you 
pay on Facebook, and then you 

195
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,480
get the get the same clicks. 
So it's kind of a deep rooted 

196
00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,320
problem and there's a lot of 
different trends interconnected 

197
00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:44,720
with that. 
But this is kind of how I would,

198
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,240
from a very high level view, 
explain it. 

199
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,880
Bitcoin custody is evolving and 
while self custody is important,

200
00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,160
it has its own risks and 
trade-offs. 

201
00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,280
Onramp is pioneering a new 
standard multi institution 

202
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,640
custody which eliminates single 
points of failure, adding fault 

203
00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,760
tolerance and redundancy to your
custody set up. 

204
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,720
Onramp secures your Bitcoin in a
segregated cold storage multi 

205
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,440
signature vault guarded by three
independent institutional grade 

206
00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,080
custodians, none of which have 
unilateral control. 

207
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,040
Your funds are fully auditable 
on chain, cannot be 

208
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,960
rehypothecated, and can only 
move or withdrawn at your 

209
00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,640
explicit direction. 
Multi Institution custody 

210
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,960
removes the technical, mental 
and physical burdens of private 

211
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,160
key management, providing 
unparalleled Peace of Mind for 

212
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,200
you and your loved ones. 
Bitcoin is money and as the 

213
00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,480
price continues to appreciate, 
On Ramp helps you seamlessly tap

214
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,160
into financial services like 
trading, inheritance, insurance,

215
00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,720
loans, Iras and more, all 
without compromising on security

216
00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,840
or accessibility. 
Check out on rampbitcoin.com 

217
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,960
through the link below and 
schedule consultation. 

218
00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,240
With the on ramp team to get to 
know them and learn more about 

219
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:57,760
their offering. 
Yeah, super interesting. 

220
00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:02,280
I'm thinking so, so many things 
have become so ephemeral, so 

221
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,800
short lived, right. 
Like, and I think that's when we

222
00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:09,640
talk about Bitcoin, we actually 
talk about the the low time 

223
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:12,760
preference. 
So we do have like a view 

224
00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:15,880
towards the future and like a 
past towards the future, right. 

225
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,520
And I think everything you just 
explained is more about like a 

226
00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,920
high time preference, like I 
need, I hit now, I need fans 

227
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,520
now, etcetera. 
But you know, I think if you, I 

228
00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,000
wonder if you agree, but if I, 
if I think about if I would be 

229
00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,960
someone who made music, how 
amazing would it be that like 

230
00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,120
500 years after I died, people 
still listen to it, right? 

231
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:40,320
Like that is that is a timeless 
creation that, that you made, 

232
00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,600
right? 
And that shows that over your 

233
00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,920
time, your lifetime or the trend
at that time, you know, or 

234
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,920
whatever, or or why ever people 
like boss made their music, 

235
00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,120
right? 
That doesn't really matter that 

236
00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,440
it still resonates in other 
times that are just constantly 

237
00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,560
changing, right? 
Like that achievement sounds way

238
00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:04,000
more impressive than yeah, 
having the next TikTok hit, 

239
00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:05,320
right, Because it's really 
there. 

240
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:10,040
There's more like one day hit 
type people now, I think then 

241
00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,120
and now I'm I sound really old, 
but like when I was 1620 years 

242
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,720
ago, yeah, it it you had it 
also. 

243
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,600
But now it's just way more like 
sometimes you hear a song and 

244
00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:24,880
they're like, oh, what what else
did this person put out? 

245
00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:27,680
And then it's like two other 
songs and they just had a, they 

246
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:29,520
had like a TikTok hit and and 
that was it. 

247
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,680
Exactly. 
And it's like, it's almost like 

248
00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:35,080
this this low time preference, 
which is kind of required to 

249
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,000
good make good art. 
It's kind of gone in the society

250
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,800
because you can amplify 
something and it can go viral. 

251
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,920
You know, even there are like so
many shitty songs which just got

252
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:46,640
viral because they're funny or 
whatever. 

253
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,520
But I think this this skewed the
perception of young people 

254
00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,400
especially that you can you just
need to focus on gaming the 

255
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,040
algorithm instead of actually 
making good art. 

256
00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:02,760
And it just takes a lot of time 
and effort to actually make good

257
00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,560
art. 
And I think that as you said, 

258
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:10,200
like Bitcoin reintroduces this 
into the society because I, I 

259
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:13,080
started to understand this as 
well that I, you know, if I want

260
00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,800
to make a good video, it might 
take me 6 months to work on it. 

261
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,240
And if more like new skills. 
And I feel like in Bitcoin, the 

262
00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:23,680
artistry and all of the art 
which is happening goes back to 

263
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,080
actually appreciating this low 
time preference. 

264
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:29,520
So I'm actually hopeful that 
Bitcoin will get us back onto 

265
00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:33,680
this renaissance of art and 
music because it gives you the, 

266
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,440
this long term perspective to 
actually be sure, OK, I can 

267
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,960
focus on my craft. 
I have a little bit of money on 

268
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,080
the side which I know it's not 
going to be inflated away. 

269
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,680
I can plan for the next 5 years 
and say, OK, for the next 5 

270
00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:48,200
years. 
I just want to learn how to do 

271
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:50,520
it. 
A nice fountain or something, 

272
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,400
you know? 
Yes, yes, yeah. 

273
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,400
I've talked about this a lot. 
100% agree. 

274
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,400
I kind of translate that to, you
know, people have a high time 

275
00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:01,680
preference because I think 
inherently everyone feels or 

276
00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:03,880
knows that the future is 
uncertain, right? 

277
00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,240
Just very practical. 
You don't know how much time you

278
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:10,600
have in your life, but because 
the entire ability to save, 

279
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,720
which is by the way, one of the 
three characteristics of money, 

280
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,360
you know, it's just totally 
gone. 

281
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,080
Like you can save more units, 
but you know, if, if each unit 

282
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:22,680
gets devalued every year, then 
you, you are basically 

283
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,320
increasing the uncertainty 
towards your future, right? 

284
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,400
And Bitcoin brings that back to,
I would say the normal 

285
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,720
uncertainty or at least or, or, 
or maybe even lower than the 

286
00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,560
general uncertainty we have, 
right? 

287
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:38,360
Because, you know, it cannot be 
debased. 

288
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:42,800
And that gives you the time and 
space to try something or to. 

289
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:44,960
Yeah. 
And then also try something big 

290
00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,160
like you said, like if you can 
create the time and space to try

291
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,920
something for five years, if you
really try it and just do that 

292
00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,160
thing for five years, you're 
going to be one of the best in 

293
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:55,320
the world at that. 
Thing. 

294
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,920
In five years, right, That has 
just become increasingly more, 

295
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,080
more difficult. 
And yeah, while you were 

296
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,920
talking, I was thinking, I don't
know if it's, I don't know who 

297
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,240
that is, but a lot like 
Michelangelo, I think made these

298
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:15,080
marble statues also, right? 
And I saw an animation once 

299
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,720
where you see like just a marble
block and then chiseled from 

300
00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:21,960
that is I think his David 
statue. 

301
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,600
How crazy is it that you can 
imagine that the statue in the 

302
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,360
marble block, right? 
Then eventually also also just 

303
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,280
get there like how much time and
dedication that takes just to 

304
00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:38,560
make that for yourself. 
And then that stands the test of

305
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:39,720
time also, right? 
But. 

306
00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,480
And I think he was only 26 or 27
when he did that, which is just 

307
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,560
amazing. 
But it kind of like now getting 

308
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,920
a little bit away from the 
discussion. 

309
00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,160
But it's kind of like this thing
where you say like if you really

310
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,840
focus on a craft and try to 
perfect it, you will get 

311
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,000
somewhere. 
I don't know how it was back in 

312
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:02,600
Michelangelo's times, but I 
could imagine we, we need 

313
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:06,040
somebody to factor this. 
But I could imagine that like he

314
00:17:06,079 --> 00:17:09,520
probably wasn't enrolled in a 
normal schooling system where 

315
00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,160
you're getting kind of a general
overview of everything, but 

316
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,760
you're not going to be good at 
anything because of this. 

317
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:20,480
It's like, and this is kind of I
made a video about homeschooling

318
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,839
where a lot of people say that 
this is kind of the positive 

319
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:25,160
side of homeschooling, that if 
you have a kid who's actually 

320
00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,600
interested in something, they 
can actually already early on in

321
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,720
their life focus on this passion
of theirs. 

322
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:33,560
And I think they're similar with
Bitcoin. 

323
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,720
You know, if like if you're on a
Bitcoin standard, you don't have

324
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,880
all of the other distractions of
oh, what do I do with my money? 

325
00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,840
I think safety and said this if 
if you are a Barber or something

326
00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,920
like this and you save it in in 
in Bitcoin, this will at some 

327
00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,960
point free the time for you to 
work for your with your passion.

328
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,160
That's like the Wright brothers 
on the gold standard. 

329
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,000
That's how they actually 
discovered the plane, right, 

330
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,880
because they had I think it was 
a bicycle shop or something that

331
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,280
they had and then then because 
you were able to save at some 

332
00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:04,680
point, they were able to 
reinvest into the passion, which

333
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,720
which was to figure out if the 
airplanes are can be a thing or 

334
00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,520
not. 
So I totally agree. 

335
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,360
I think Bitcoin will hopefully 
lead us there. 

336
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,440
It definitely did it to me 
because before that and then 

337
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,400
like in the Fiat hamster wheel, 
I was never focused on actually 

338
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,440
creating or making art. 
And now this is the only thing 

339
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:28,320
I'm dedicating my life to. 
Yeah, it's funny how you know, 

340
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:31,680
of course I talk to a lot of 
people, but I like the to 

341
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,800
discover like the synchronicity 
in thoughts between people 

342
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,440
because you just the last thing 
you said about the, you know, 

343
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,520
kind of like the hamster wheel. 
Like last week, I tweeted. 

344
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,120
When you adopt Bitcoin, you stop
running the rat race and you 

345
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,480
start walking your own path. 
Yes. 

346
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,160
And, and I think it is, I mean, 
I've seen many examples. 

347
00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,800
You are a prime example. 
It is just really true. 

348
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,760
And it's just, it's so funny 
because sometimes when when I 

349
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,720
say stuff like this, I I think 
like, Oh yeah, that sounds too 

350
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,640
good to me that that's what a 
snake oil salesman would say. 

351
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,280
But if we want to make that 
practical, right? 

352
00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:10,160
Or if someone asks you like what
is Bitcoin and why should I 

353
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:11,000
care? 
Like what? 

354
00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,560
How can we make that a practical
answer? 

355
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:16,080
So not be like, oh, you're going
to be rich and that's why you 

356
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,680
have time and space. 
Like, is it what I said, like 

357
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,440
the uncertainty towards the 
future or like how, how would 

358
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,400
you say that? 
Or like how is it for you? 

359
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:28,600
I mean, it's hard to describe it
because it's for me, it's 

360
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:32,120
something which nobody told me 
or something I needed to 

361
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:35,000
experience it myself. 
And I think for me, if I come, 

362
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,760
if I would boil it down, it's 
kind of by adopting Bitcoin and 

363
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:40,680
by living on a Bitcoin standard 
and so on. 

364
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:46,640
I had something to work towards 
in the future because this was 

365
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,160
the first time that I was 
actually, OK, I can have a 

366
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:54,360
better life in the future when I
just do what I do the best and 

367
00:19:54,360 --> 00:19:57,760
save it in Bitcoin. 
And to be honest, there was a, 

368
00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:01,400
there was a certain financial 
freedom aspect of it where I was

369
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:05,960
like, OK, if I can stack this 
ads in maybe 4 to 8 years, it's 

370
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:10,200
going to maybe give me a certain
financial freedom to actually 

371
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,680
focus on it. 
But it was really this, this 

372
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,600
understanding that the you that 
I'm responsible for my own 

373
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,440
future and I can make it better 
by focusing on something. 

374
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,000
Integrating it with Bitcoin, 
building a business and then 

375
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,840
from there, like all of the 
other learnings came and I know 

376
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:31,680
this still sounds very abstract 
because, but it, I think it is 

377
00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:34,120
abstract. 
It's like so hard to put into 

378
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:38,120
words when you don't recognize 
it, but I think it's just this 

379
00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:43,000
this natural thing I, I never 
met a bitcoiner who was in 

380
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,360
Bitcoin longer than four years, 
but his and said his life was 

381
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:49,840
worse off. 
So I think it's kind of a 

382
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,360
combination of actually putting 
in the work of, of at least 

383
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,440
being in the space or like 
saving Bitcoin for four years 

384
00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:02,400
that you are able to get up, get
some financial freedom, but also

385
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,000
get fucked again, because it's 
also very important. 

386
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:08,440
And then from there you can 
actually look into your life, 

387
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,960
what your actual values are. 
But it's super abstract. 

388
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,520
I don't I don't have a better 
answer this. 

389
00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:21,480
Yeah, I think that is why the 
goal of any person talking about

390
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:24,520
Bitcoin, you know, me doing this
podcast, you doing what you do, 

391
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,560
it's kind of like to invite 
people in with our own 

392
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:29,640
experience. 
You know, we don't have to 

393
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,600
convince other people. 
I don't think that works, by the

394
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:35,920
way, Right. 
So it's more about can we share 

395
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,480
what it did for us And yeah, by 
having, you know, in my case, 

396
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,040
trying to to create as many 
different touch points coming 

397
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,880
from as many, you know, 
different possible people. 

398
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,960
Yeah, just hopefully touch 
someone somewhere where they 

399
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:55,400
think like, oh, OK, that's, that
sounds relevant to me or I, I 

400
00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,120
can relate to that, you know, 
and then then you kind of like 

401
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,880
get onto your own path of this, 
this studying and just, yeah, 

402
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,320
well, getting hopefully where 
where where we went, we ended 

403
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,200
up. 
I feel it's, it's a big blessing

404
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,000
and a big reward that we get to 
experience that and and 

405
00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:14,960
hopefully inspire some people 
along the way. 

406
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,320
So, yeah, no, I love that you 
share it like that, I think. 

407
00:22:18,120 --> 00:22:20,560
Yeah, I think that's just it. 
Like you cannot go further than 

408
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:22,920
that. 
Yeah, you have to go that go for

409
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,880
yourself. 
It's kind of the same like 

410
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,080
trying to explain why going to 
the gym feels good afterwards. 

411
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,040
It's like, because it's like, 
why working out as hard and so 

412
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,640
on. 
And for people who never went to

413
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,880
the gym, they might not 
understand why the gym is 

414
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:40,920
actually good or doing sports in
general. 

415
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:46,040
But once you went to the gym and
experienced it, you're like, Oh 

416
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,280
yeah, you don't even need to 
explain it to me. 

417
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,440
I totally get it. 
And I think it's similar with 

418
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:53,360
this where every Bitcoiners 
like, yeah, it's hard to put 

419
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:55,640
into words, just you need to try
it somehow. 

420
00:22:55,640 --> 00:23:00,680
But yeah, it's like, I can also 
like not convince somebody to do

421
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:02,320
go to the gym. 
You're going to feel so much 

422
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,320
better. 
It needs to be an intrinsic 

423
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,960
motivation to actually make the 
change within the person. 

424
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,240
So. 
And I know you, you spoke about 

425
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,200
this before, you also shared me,
shared, shared this with me. 

426
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,160
But like, how, how did adopting 
Bitcoin like influence your 

427
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:22,040
thinking about other topics like
health and food, you know, 

428
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,360
family values stuff, stuff like 
that? 

429
00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:29,160
Like how how do we go from what 
we just talked about to do it 

430
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,560
Well, even even more influence 
in in these other topics. 

431
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,360
Yeah. 
It's it's kind of wild because 

432
00:23:35,360 --> 00:23:39,640
what I said with that, you have 
the perspective of future by 

433
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:42,840
just having a money, which is 
kind of more future oriented 

434
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,280
than justified money. 
This has an impact on every 

435
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,760
aspect of my life. 
It's like I, I'm so much more 

436
00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:53,840
healthy. 
I have now podcast, which is 

437
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,320
actually all about health. 
It's called proof of health. 

438
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,240
And I haven't been that healthy 
before that it was I was living 

439
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,320
my life here and there and 
didn't really care about it. 

440
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,560
But once you shift your 
perspective onto the future and 

441
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,720
actually think about, okay, I 
want to have a good life, I want

442
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,920
to have a healthy life, then 
it's also like, okay, the 

443
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,920
decisions I do today always have
an impact on my future. 

444
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,000
So this changed massively for me
where I was like, OK, my health,

445
00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:24,200
I'm way more conscious about 
what I eat. 

446
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,280
I will go to the gym, what I 
drink. 

447
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,160
But it's also like family 
values, for example, like 

448
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:34,520
family, I grew up in Europe and 
all my friends are kind of more,

449
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,440
they don't care that much about 
family anymore. 

450
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:40,640
I feel like in Western 
societies, the importance of 

451
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:42,840
family is decreasing slowly but 
surely. 

452
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:47,040
And but Bitcoin showed me again 
that this is actually one of the

453
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,080
most important things in life to
build a healthy functioning 

454
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,800
family. 
And this this like massively 

455
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,840
changed for me also. 
Like what does it mean to be 

456
00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:00,480
actually a man in this world? 
What, what do I need to do to 

457
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:06,080
become the the man that I would 
want like to actually raise my 

458
00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:09,880
kids or like care for my wife, 
care for my friends and so on. 

459
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:16,240
And all of this is kind of 
connected to Bitcoin because 

460
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:21,000
with this, to adopt Bitcoin to 
all of this that happened, what 

461
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,680
we said like 10 minutes ago, you
kind of need to change your word

462
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,960
perspective as well and like be 
humble enough to actually 

463
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,280
appreciate that the you did. 
I didn't understand how the 

464
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,760
world works before I discovered 
Bitcoin. 

465
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,680
And then from there I asked all 
of the other questions, OK, 

466
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,840
maybe health. 
I was, for example, I was, it 

467
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:45,400
was a vegetarian and I was like,
maybe I don't really know why 

468
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,960
I'm a vegetarian and need to 
change this and so on. 

469
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:50,280
And so it's like this 
questioning a lot of different 

470
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:54,200
aspects of the life, which then 
led me to a way healthier and 

471
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,680
way happier life. 
And I'm assuming the same thing 

472
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,640
happened for you as well. 
I think, I think what is behind 

473
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,520
that or how you get to like 
these other topics is when, when

474
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,520
you research this well, the 
question of what is money and 

475
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:13,480
you realize that no one ever 
told you. 

476
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,200
And then you realize that your 
concept of money is not what 

477
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,040
money is. 
That when you put money in the 

478
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,480
bank, it's not yours anymore. 
Like all these things, right? 

479
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:30,040
That once you go down that path 
and accept that what you thought

480
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,480
was true, the way you were 
operating was based, well, that 

481
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:36,360
what you thought was true was 
not true. 

482
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,600
That you were operating on 
something that you didn't 

483
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,880
understand and that you were 
chasing something, right. 

484
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,240
Money or reward for your job or 
your, your venture or whatever. 

485
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:50,880
And you know, in my case, 
spending your finite energy and 

486
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:54,240
time for reward that can 
infinitely be created. 

487
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:56,400
And that's like the dumbest 
thing that you can do. 

488
00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,480
That's pretty eye opening, at 
least for me. 

489
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,640
I, I think that's also been the 
case with other people that once

490
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,720
you recognize that this 
mechanism of, hey, I believe 

491
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:08,200
certain things or I think, you 
know, think certain things are 

492
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,080
true or operate in a certain 
way, I behave in a certain way. 

493
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,520
Why do I actually do that? 
Why? 

494
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,600
Why were you a vegetarian? 
I was I yeah, exactly. 

495
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,160
It's like I didn't even question
it. 

496
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,000
I I was just like everybody at 
my friend from fostering it. 

497
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,080
OK. 
It's healthy. 

498
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,680
Exactly this, right? 
And then you realize, well, 

499
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,480
maybe it's not OK, well, I 
should see what the other side 

500
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:30,480
of this is, right? 
Why? 

501
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,400
Why wouldn't it be? 
Or why is, well, we had some 

502
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,200
nice steaks. 
Why are steaks better? 

503
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,480
Why should we still eat meat? 
You know, stuff like that, that 

504
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,200
once you recognize that there's 
a very big thing that you had no

505
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:46,720
clue about, you know, the money 
and that there is this other 

506
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:50,560
thing that is provably, 
verifiably better to that. 

507
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,840
OK, what are all the topics 
beneath money or next to money 

508
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,080
that I also have no clue about, 
right. 

509
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,040
And I think that's how you get 
to these, these other topics in 

510
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,640
a, in a sense. 
And I think one important thing 

511
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,600
is also that by actually 
understanding Bitcoin, you have 

512
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,840
so many people telling you that 
you don't know what it really is

513
00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,880
about. 
Everybody was against you. 

514
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,960
And I think this gives you a 
confidence that you can actually

515
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,320
figure stuff out yourself, even 
though everybody else thinks 

516
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,800
that you're wrong. 
And I think by having this, then

517
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,480
you also are able to actually 
venture into those other topics,

518
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,800
for example, health, which like 
everybody says meat is bad. 

519
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,840
But if you understand that, I 
can understand it for myself and

520
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,640
actually verify and get my own 
opinion on it. 

521
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,040
And like even all the health 
officials and all the health 

522
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,040
governments in the world say 
meat is bad, you should eat less

523
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,480
of it by having figured out 
money yourself or Bitcoin 

524
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,560
yourself, you are also, I think,
most likely to figure out some 

525
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,400
other topics for yourself 
because you're not that much 

526
00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,080
influenced anymore by official 
narratives and actually start 

527
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,640
thinking for yourself. 
Yeah, yeah, I always, I describe

528
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,440
this as like, and it's also with
the other topics, but like 

529
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,120
adopting and holding Bitcoin is 
kind of like this, this 

530
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,240
psychological journey where 
you're constantly challenged 

531
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,680
with the question, can I still 
trust myself? 

532
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:19,160
You know, something like that. 
And once you get a continuous 

533
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:22,680
confirmation of the fact that 
yes, you can, I think that's 

534
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,160
what kind of like instills this 
motivation or trust in in 

535
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,920
yourself to then explore like 
the other topics. 

536
00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,160
I think I think this is the most
important part of growing up to 

537
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,120
actually start trusting yourself
and to learn that you can trust 

538
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,080
yourself. 
And even with like smaller 

539
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,320
things like your gut feeling 
when you meet people or gut 

540
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,440
feelings for new projects or 
some of them I've like for me at

541
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,200
least, this was is still one of 
the most important journeys that

542
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,800
I'm just like, OK, maybe I just 
knew all along already without 

543
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,960
having the facts. 
My my gut was just like, 

544
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,240
probably here is off. 
Exactly. 

545
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,880
Yeah. 
Quick question, if you have your

546
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,960
Bitcoin in self custody, where 
are you keeping your Bitcoin 

547
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,560
seed words? 
For me, there's only one way and

548
00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,840
it's backing up my seed phrase 
with stamp seats. 

549
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,880
It's a single durable plate 
without any parts or materials. 

550
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,000
Stamp your words into solid 
titanium, which is fire 

551
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,520
resistant, water resistant and 
built to last. 

552
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,400
Unlike etching or engraving, 
stamp seats better. 

553
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,920
The tools help you to deeply 
stamp every letter for permanent

554
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,320
readability, making it easy for 
you to protect your generational

555
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:31,320
wealth. 
Don't risk losing your seat 

556
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,760
phrase on paper. 
Get a stamp seat plate for 

557
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:37,560
unmatched protection. 
You can use code Brom that's BR 

558
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:43,600
AM for 15% off at stampseat.com.
I think that is I think two 

559
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,880
things. 
One, everyone is winging it, 

560
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:47,720
right? 
Like no one has it figured out. 

561
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,280
Like once you realize that you 
kind of like move towards that 

562
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,040
what you said. 
But it's also, I mean all the 

563
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,800
all these doubts and belief in 
certain constructs and stuff. 

564
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:02,800
That's all mind and ego talk, 
you know, And once you challenge

565
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,800
your mind and get to the 
conclusion that what your mind 

566
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,440
constructed for you was false, 
you know, that's also, I think, 

567
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:14,480
yeah, just an interesting signal
that there's a there's a 

568
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,760
difference between, well, the 
gut feeling and what the mind 

569
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,000
constructs, which is usually 
aimed at protecting you from 

570
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,640
doing something dangerous. 
Yeah. 

571
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,680
You definitely need to learn how
to navigate it because sometimes

572
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,760
it's like, you know, your 
rationality actually makes 

573
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,520
sense. 
Like maybe you don't jump from 

574
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,320
the tree cause. 
Yeah, well, dangerous danger, 

575
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,160
but exactly. 
Yeah, that's true. 

576
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:44,280
So you just mentioned, you know,
some things take time to make. 

577
00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:48,080
You just released I think a 
month ago or something a very 

578
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,720
cool. 
The video I saw it had like a 

579
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,440
quarter million, almost like 
300K views at least just on 

580
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:55,880
YouTube. 
I mean, you published on other 

581
00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,880
channels as well about like your
road to your first Muay Thai 

582
00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,240
fight, which I mean I I will 
link to your to your YouTube 

583
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,640
channel. 
So everyone should check that 

584
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:06,280
out. 
I think it was really dope so. 

585
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:07,440
Thanks. 
Congrats on that. 

586
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,400
Like very, very cool to see. 
And it starts with I'm not a 

587
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,280
fighter. 
I don't have experience how I've

588
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,680
seen Baghdads. 
That's fun, but I think it 

589
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:16,240
touches upon what we are talking
about. 

590
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,520
It's like this required a lot of
discipline, right? 

591
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:20,640
Like, I mean, you went to, I 
don't want to spoil too much, 

592
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:21,880
right? 
But you went to gyms and you 

593
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,120
were like, I'm a, I'm a super 
noob and I want to fight my 

594
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:27,520
first fight. 
Like do you want to teach me? 

595
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,560
And some people said no. 
And then eventually you found a 

596
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:31,960
place where you could train, 
right? 

597
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,640
And you know, eventually this 
just asked for a lot of 

598
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,680
discipline from you and yeah, 
how do you compare like this 

599
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:41,000
discipline? 
And maybe you answered it 

600
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,400
already, right? 
But like, how do you compare 

601
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,480
like this discipline to getting 
to a Muay Thai fight with 

602
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:51,600
discipline that you need to like
hold Bitcoin, adopt Bitcoin, you

603
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,320
know, and to actually like be 
able to continuously like trust 

604
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,680
yourself and your judgement on. 
Yeah, like that's The funny 

605
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:02,360
thing about the Muay Thai thing.
It's basically, it was also way 

606
00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,520
deeper down the Bitcoin rabbit 
hole that I did this because it 

607
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:10,480
was basically my, my motivation 
was what is the hardest thing 

608
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,680
that I could could imagine that 
I could achieve. 

609
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,040
That was like what I was 
thinking and like, OK, what is 

610
00:33:16,040 --> 00:33:21,560
the the thing when I say this 
now that it sounds so crazy that

611
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,320
I'm just laughing at myself and 
thinking, man, Max, you're 

612
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,120
fucking crazy. 
And for me, this was to actually

613
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:31,600
go into the ring fight another 
man because I never had any 

614
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,280
boxing experience. 
And as you say in the video, you

615
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,280
can actually see that I have no 
idea what I'm doing. 

616
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,760
And so, so this was kind of like
I wanted to challenge myself a 

617
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,880
little bit in like what I can 
actually achieve by being 

618
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:50,600
disciplined. 
And I think that, yeah, maybe I 

619
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:52,600
think you get it. 
When did you see the video? 

620
00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,480
But it's it's incredibly hard to
do this every day to go to the 

621
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:01,360
gym and not not quit or just go 
out because there were days 

622
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,320
where like I was injured, I was 
not feeling good, the weather 

623
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,440
was shitty. 
So there were so many ways of 

624
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,360
like excusing myself to not do 
it. 

625
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,199
But this is kind of like the 
Bitcoin thinking again, where 

626
00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:18,239
was like to achieve something 
which is worth it. 

627
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,520
It takes a lot of time and a lot
of effort. 

628
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,239
And I would say this is what I 
said before with if like with 

629
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,239
like Bakamoto or all the people,
they, they appreciated this. 

630
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,360
And I think Bitcoin also showed 
me this that I know, OK, if I 

631
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,480
want to achieve this goal, if I 
want to actually learn the skill

632
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,520
of fighting, I need to go 
through those hard times and 

633
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,639
like I appreciate even those 
hard times. 

634
00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,120
And you asked me for the analogy
to Bitcoin. 

635
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:46,000
I think it's the same thing 
because once you're like even 

636
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,440
the four year period of holding 
Bitcoin takes a a lot of 

637
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,480
discipline to not selling, to 
not believing other people who 

638
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,760
say, oh, it's just a bubble. 
But you kind of need to believe 

639
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,920
in yourself that you figured out
that Bitcoin is all right, that 

640
00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:03,160
the technology is fine, that you
trusted and all that. 

641
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,800
By going then through the, the 
shitty times of Bitcoin, you're 

642
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:11,120
actually at the position where 
you can't really appreciate the,

643
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,920
the Bitcoin because then it's 
like, Oh yeah, I know that I 

644
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,800
wasn't lucky, but I made it 
through all of those different 

645
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,840
timings. 
And it's the same with Muay 

646
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,080
Thai. 
It's like I the only person who 

647
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,080
actually knows how hard it was 
to go there is myself. 

648
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,480
I tried to portray it in the 
video, but nobody will ever 

649
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,320
understand the pain and all of 
that. 

650
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,400
It's still just a video. 
And I think this is like the 

651
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,400
analogy with like the same with 
Bitcoin. 

652
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:40,040
Like the only way you you can 
only know how good it feels to 

653
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,400
now be in the bull market 
because you know how hard the 

654
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,400
last couple of years were and 
you can't explain it. 

655
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,440
And this is kind of the just the
the proof of work thing where 

656
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,280
it's like, OK to learn a skill, 
you need to put in the time, 

657
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,480
whatever it is even holding 
Bitcoin. 

658
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,640
Yeah, I, I think This is why I 
love the more like philosophical

659
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,560
or almost spiritual angle of 
Bitcoin because what you just 

660
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,720
said, I mean that is eventually 
what it's all about, right? 

661
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:11,280
I mean, if we go back to the 
examples of the, of the, the, 

662
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,440
the high time preference music 
making and going viral and I 

663
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,520
need fans, etcetera. 
That is not about, you know, now

664
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,000
I really sound like an older 
guy, but like about that's more 

665
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:23,920
about the destination than the 
journey, right? 

666
00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:25,880
And what you describe is the 
journey. 

667
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,080
The reward is really in the 
journey and anything that comes 

668
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,280
after that, like whether you win
or lose the the fight, right, or

669
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:39,400
whether the video does well or 
not, like that is all after the 

670
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,640
reward that you already had. 
Yeah. 

671
00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:45,560
You know, and when, when we're 
talking about this, I have to 

672
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,640
think, yeah, last week I really 
binged like a lot of Rick Rubin 

673
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:53,040
stuff, like him talking about 
creativity and him talking 

674
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,160
about, you know, you have to 
make the best thing that you can

675
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,320
make, you know, And if you're 
happy with that result, that is 

676
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:04,080
all that you can achieve. 
And anything after that is not 

677
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,320
up to you, right? 
Like any, any reward after that 

678
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,400
weather something becomes very 
well known or not or expensive 

679
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,240
when you have art or whatever 
like that is not something to 

680
00:37:15,240 --> 00:37:19,080
identify with, you know? 
And yeah, but. 

681
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,880
But but society is kind of like 
teaching us this is all it is 

682
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,680
about. 
Like it's only about the clicks.

683
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,760
It's only about how many people 
follow you. 

684
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:30,440
Whereas like it kind of like I, 
I love recruitment. 

685
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,720
Like he's one of my biggest 
inspirations of like for 

686
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,360
creating and taught me a lot 
about especially how to 

687
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:41,760
disconnect from the rewards of 
clicks and so on, but keeps you 

688
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,880
just doing what you do. 
And at some point the universe, 

689
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:48,360
if the universe wants to give 
you the rewards, it will come, 

690
00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,320
you know. 
But as you say, like as long as 

691
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,800
you try to make every, every 
output that you create better 

692
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:57,680
than the one before, I think 
that's all you need to do. 

693
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,240
And it's the same with with 
Mutaev. 

694
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,680
Every day I try to train a 
little bit harder, a little bit 

695
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:05,600
better, and it's up. 
Like this is the journey that 

696
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,680
life is about. 
As you said, it's not about 

697
00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,200
winning or losing the fight, it 
is about actually going through 

698
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:14,760
those hard times and actually 
learning how to cope with them. 

699
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,720
Yeah, yeah, I'm also thinking 
that, well, it goes even deeper.

700
00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:23,040
I, I am reading, I'm really into
like all the consciousness 

701
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,280
stuff, like how does the 
universe work and stuff like 

702
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,040
that. 
And I'm, I'm reading a book that

703
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,960
I shared before a lot that I can
show you. 

704
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:31,320
It's called Stalking the Wild 
Pendulum. 

705
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:35,000
OK. 
By a guy named Itzhak bent off. 

706
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,880
And you know, when people talk 
about manifestation is really 

707
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,400
interesting, right? 
Like manifestation is not like I

708
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:46,000
want to be rich and then 
tomorrow there's like a million 

709
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,200
you have a million in Bitcoin or
whatever, right? 

710
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,960
Like that's not how it works. 
It's more about literally what 

711
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,080
you describe, right? 
Like OK, what's the craziest 

712
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:55,360
thing I can think of? 
Right? 

713
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,200
Like a fought is a metaphysical 
thing. 

714
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,120
What's the craziest thing I can 
think of? 

715
00:39:00,240 --> 00:39:01,760
OK, that's doing a Muay Thai 
fight. 

716
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:05,360
And by doing the action, you're 
manifesting it in the real 

717
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,120
world. 
You actually did the fight, 

718
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:07,880
right? 
Like that. 

719
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,680
That is my understanding of 
manifestation. 

720
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,360
Same as what Rick Rubin talks 
about. 

721
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,440
Like it's the music. 
All the ideas are like for 

722
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,480
anyone listening, anything you 
see around you was manifested 

723
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,160
because it was an idea before 
and now you see it in the in the

724
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,840
physical world, right? 
But what this guy talks about in

725
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,160
the book is that you can force 
manifestation, right? 

726
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,000
Like you can get like a piece of
clay and you can create 

727
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,920
something of it, but nothing 
will ever be, I don't want to 

728
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:42,160
say recognized or something, but
it's kind of like when you when 

729
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,560
you believe that like the 
universal consciousness is 

730
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,120
basically like an infinite love 
like that. 

731
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,840
If that is where we come from, 
he basically says the only 

732
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,280
things that are worthy to exist 
are things that are manifested 

733
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,120
with love. 
So you can force song and put it

734
00:39:57,120 --> 00:40:01,200
on TikTok and stuff like that. 
But if it's not made with love, 

735
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,280
it won't stand the 500 years, 
right? 

736
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,520
It won't live for for 1000 
years. 

737
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,800
And so the only person that can 
recognize, as you said, if you 

738
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,000
put in the love is you like you 
are the only person that can put

739
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:16,200
in the love into the creation of
whatever you are creating, you 

740
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:18,080
know? 
And I, I think that's just 

741
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,760
really cool that if you realize 
that, yeah, then it's only, you 

742
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,920
are the only. 
Opponents are the only player in

743
00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:26,560
whatever you're trying to do. 
Exactly. 

744
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,600
And I think it's also that's why
you see a lot of big artists who

745
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,720
are not happy because they don't
put in the the love that they 

746
00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:35,800
should. 
And it's kind of like, I think 

747
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,640
that that's also why a lot of 
imposter syndrome is happening 

748
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,960
like in the big, big artists. 
And it's kind of like, I think a

749
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,320
lot of them are kind of 
miserable because it's just like

750
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,520
about making the money and being
becoming bigger. 

751
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:49,840
And it's not about actually 
creating the craft itself. 

752
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,280
And it's like, as you say, I 
think if you yourself are happy 

753
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,960
with what you're doing and know 
that you put the biggest love 

754
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,080
into this, then this will 
automatically make you happy 

755
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,520
because even if like the hards, 
the time's going to be hard to 

756
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,480
to actually achieve something. 
But but this is like the the 

757
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:12,400
self rewarding aspect of this 
path when you put it to love. 

758
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:15,400
Yeah, yeah. 
And I think we are getting back 

759
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,680
to that, like to that kind of 
like, you know, if you make 

760
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:21,200
something with love, it is 
really authentic because you 

761
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,160
made it just for yourself. 
And people appreciate seeing 

762
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,560
that authenticity because I 
think that is what is actually 

763
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:30,080
the inspiration. 
She's like, oh, he's really 

764
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:34,400
doing his own thing or she is 
doing her own thing, right? 

765
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:39,680
Like that is what people, I 
think eventually admire, that 

766
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:42,680
you can do that, that they can 
do that, that anyone can 

767
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,120
basically do that, right? 
But you have to let go of all 

768
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,320
the, I don't know, validation of
other people or something like 

769
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:50,800
that. 
Because if, if you understand 

770
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,400
everyone is winging it, then 
well, then that is really it. 

771
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:56,840
And you can just do whatever you
want. 

772
00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,480
And as I say, like actually 
everybody in this life is the 

773
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:03,320
main player of this game. 
It's just like you can, you can 

774
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,080
choose your next quest. 
What it is. 

775
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:06,640
For me, it was, for example, 
Muay Thai. 

776
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,960
And I knew if I want to do this,
this would mean that for the 

777
00:42:09,960 --> 00:42:13,200
next six months I would let go 
through the hardest months of my

778
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:14,480
life. 
So, you know, it's kind of like 

779
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:18,120
you choose a quest and if you 
really want to achieve it, you 

780
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,920
also need to play by the rules 
of that quest. 

781
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,320
So this is the only way how you 
achieve it. 

782
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:27,880
And like as you say, you can, 
you can put the quest into 

783
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:30,720
whatever you want. 
If you say, oh, I want to earn 

784
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:34,640
$1,000,000 in the next five 
years or whatever, then there 

785
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:38,080
are certain rules which mean, 
OK, you're not like you need to 

786
00:42:38,080 --> 00:42:40,320
work on the weekends, you need 
to learn the scale, which is 

787
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:42,640
highly, highly monetizable and 
so on. 

788
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,840
It's kind of like actually life.
It can be simple. 

789
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,680
It's not easy, but it's simple. 
You just, you choose a like 

790
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:53,160
quest, be it building a family, 
whatever. 

791
00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:55,520
And then you look at, OK, what 
are the rules to actually be 

792
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,240
able to achieve this? 
And then you need to play by 

793
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:02,280
those rules and yeah, not fuck 
up on the on the way to getting 

794
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,880
there. 
Yeah, this dies into what we 

795
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:06,520
talked about. 
I think about challenging your 

796
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,880
mind before is like, OK, I want 
this, but I don't have it. 

797
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:13,600
So I have a problem. 
How do I get here? 

798
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,680
And you play the game or the 
quest, whatever you decided 

799
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,680
within that framework, right? 
So that could be the time you 

800
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,800
set for yourself or the 
condition that you're in or I 

801
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,640
don't know, maybe you were prone
to getting injured, you know, 

802
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,960
whatever. 
Like you don't really know you 

803
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,520
only you only figured it out 
once you start, right? 

804
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,680
But there's there's not it's not
for free. 

805
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,760
Like you have to do it right 
And, and there will be parts of 

806
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,760
the framework that you didn't 
expect or that you really hate, 

807
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,760
right? 
And I think that is the fact 

808
00:43:45,760 --> 00:43:48,680
that you accept it. 
Yeah, that it's there. 

809
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,920
It's probably more than half of 
the work in that in that sense. 

810
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,520
And it's also like often you 
don't know why this is happening

811
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,440
within the framework that the 
rule book is clear. 

812
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:02,520
You need to go through this, 
let's say more time. 

813
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,360
You like you need to experience 
so much pain on this period, but

814
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,400
in between you're like, oh, fuck
this shit. 

815
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,120
I don't I want to go out of the 
framework. 

816
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,560
This is not this can't be right.
This is like this. 

817
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:16,160
Is me wrong? 
Exactly. 

818
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,040
It's like, it's like, like for 
example, what happened for me 

819
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,840
the last first three weeks, 
because when you kick, you like 

820
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,120
you have your foot on the on the
floor and you always need to do 

821
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:27,920
this movement with your, with 
your foot. 

822
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:32,920
So I had like big, big holes in 
my foot and I was like oh fuck, 

823
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,240
shit, blah, blah, blah. 
But then I talked to other like 

824
00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,280
professional fighters and also 
and everyone is like, you're 

825
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,040
probably in the first 3 weeks, 
right? 

826
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,560
Yeah, everybody has it has this.
And it's like when you go like 

827
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:48,000
when you've played the the 
framework already, then you know

828
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:51,960
why this is there. 
But when you, while you go 

829
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,520
through it, you don't really, 
you don't have the perception 

830
00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:56,200
yet. 
But as I say, you just need to 

831
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,960
accept that this is there and 
the the reasoning you will 

832
00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:01,560
understand it further down the 
road. 

833
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,280
You don't even need to 
understand it yet. 

834
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,240
I love that because the last 
example I wanted to give about 

835
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:11,160
this is, well, this podcast for 
me, like I started, I had no 

836
00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:15,120
experience with podcasting. 
Well, I tried a podcast once. 

837
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,200
I recorded 10 episodes and never
released any. 

838
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,920
So I actually failed at a first,
the first attempt. 

839
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,240
But when I was thinking about, 
OK, I'm going to do a podcast, 

840
00:45:23,240 --> 00:45:26,240
you know, there's some sort of 
niche, a big enough niche, you 

841
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,680
know, millennials, OK. 
And then kind of like my 

842
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,760
business brain went on and I was
thinking about, oh, how big in 

843
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:34,880
the audience, this and that. 
And then I thought like, no, no,

844
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:38,800
no, no, like it has to be more 
simple because I know that 

845
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,240
because if I want to create 
something, there will be 

846
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:44,160
problems along the way. 
I have to make it as simple as 

847
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,720
possible. 
And I saw a Mr. Beast video 

848
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:50,920
where he, he said, you know, 
that his biggest tip was make 

849
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,040
100 things, 100 episodes, 100 
videos, whatever. 

850
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:59,680
And then after 100 you will 
figure out if you like it, if 

851
00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:01,960
other people like it, if they 
want to follow you, like, how 

852
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:03,840
does YouTube work? 
How does the recording work? 

853
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:06,640
Like all these things you will 
figure out along the way. 

854
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,240
And I thought, you know, I'm, 
I'm, I am pretty much, I'm a, 

855
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,840
I'm a, I'm a perfectionist in 
that sense. 

856
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,480
So I thought I, I understand 
that this making it that 

857
00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:17,960
simplistic would be very 
beneficial for me. 

858
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,840
So I just was like, OK, I need 
to make a hundred, a hundred, a 

859
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,320
hundred, a hundred. 
That's that's just it. 

860
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,160
And I didn't want to do every 
recording And sometimes I was 

861
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,960
tired or whatever, or I didn't 
have enough time to prep or what

862
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,560
I did just different things 
within the framework of making 

863
00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:35,680
100 exactly episodes, right? 
On the day that I released the 

864
00:46:35,720 --> 00:46:42,240
100, I signed for a job in 
Bitcoin, I signed for a sponsor 

865
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,320
for the entire 2025. 
I released a paper that had like

866
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:48,320
50,000 views. 
I don't know, just like all the,

867
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:50,440
all these things that really 
came together in the week of the

868
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,160
100 that I could have never 
expected in the beginning. 

869
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,360
But also I think wouldn't be 
there if I would have made it 

870
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,160
more complicated. 
It was already complicated 

871
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,440
enough. 
We're just trying to achieve one

872
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,880
thing right and keep it fun to 
experience that. 

873
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,880
It's just it works like that. 
Yeah, keep it simple. 

874
00:47:10,040 --> 00:47:12,520
That's that's it. 
And it's like it's the same 

875
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,240
thing. 
It's it's always going to be 

876
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:18,080
simple, but it's not easy 
because those simple things to 

877
00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:21,840
actually record 100 podcasts is 
it sounds just just 100 

878
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,640
podcasts, but it's not easy 
because you have to have the 

879
00:47:24,640 --> 00:47:27,280
discipline to record, you need 
to find guests and so on. 

880
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,080
So I think that's with a lot of 
those with a lot of different 

881
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:34,920
things in life with like in my 
like I did a carnivore video 

882
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,240
where I tried to be carnivore or
I was carnivore for a couple of 

883
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:40,200
months. 
It's also quite simple. 

884
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:42,280
You just eat meat. 
But this is like one of the 

885
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,760
hardest things. 
Exactly yesterday. 

886
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,160
I mean, this ties back into, I 
mean, this is a Bitcoin podcast,

887
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:53,760
of course, but the idea of 
Bitcoin is very simplistic, 

888
00:47:54,240 --> 00:47:56,760
right? 
The eventual output of Bitcoin, 

889
00:47:56,760 --> 00:47:59,360
like one Bitcoin is one Bitcoin 
forever. 

890
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:02,720
That is my promise that is 
secured by the strongest 

891
00:48:02,720 --> 00:48:07,160
computer network in the world 
and over 20,000 nodes that keep,

892
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,920
you know, a copy of this Ledger 
to to maintain the ultimate 

893
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:14,640
truth of this time chain of this
Ledger. 

894
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:20,760
And therefore it is the best 
constant store of value asset to

895
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:22,880
ever exist. 
OK. 

896
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,600
It took a little bit more than 
simple sentences, but like that 

897
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,480
is that is the promise. 
But understanding that and going

898
00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,800
through this whole arc of what 
is money and what are the 

899
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,200
influences, all these things we 
talked about, that is not easy. 

900
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,560
That is definitely not not easy.
And so I love these concepts and

901
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:42,200
I love that with different 
topics you get back to the same 

902
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:47,360
kind of like first principle 
type, thinking about well, 

903
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,120
achieving goals or, or 
understanding certain topics. 

904
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,000
Yeah, yeah, I love that. 
So you, you started this 

905
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:54,960
podcast, Proof of health, great 
name. 

906
00:48:56,240 --> 00:48:59,160
What made you dedicate then more
time to Bitcoin? 

907
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:01,440
Why? 
Why start another podcast? 

908
00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:02,840
Why? 
Why do that? 

909
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:06,600
Yeah, it's, it's for me, 
basically I, I'm also on the 

910
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,680
journey of figuring out what is 
healthy and what is not healthy.

911
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:12,040
And I'm definitely not somebody 
who knows everything. 

912
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,320
So I just want to talk to people
who know things better than I do

913
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,720
and figure out for myself what I
want to incorporate for my life.

914
00:49:20,720 --> 00:49:25,080
So like basically all my, my 
videos were or mostly all my 

915
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,640
videos are about like health 
trends or health topics like 

916
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:31,920
sleeping on the floor, the 
carnivore diet, even more time. 

917
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,720
You could say it's, it's 
connected to health and I just 

918
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:38,360
felt like I need, I wanted to go
even further down the rabbit 

919
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,960
hole in a lot of those topics. 
And it's like it needs to go 

920
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,240
deeper down than just me trying 
stuff. 

921
00:49:44,240 --> 00:49:47,760
So this is kind of why I'm 
inviting a lot of experts now. 

922
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:51,840
Experts is a shitty word, but 
people who who dedicated a long 

923
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,840
period of their of their life 
towards one topic to learn from 

924
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,200
them. 
And because this is my personal 

925
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,080
journey, I'm super interested in
this. 

926
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,320
I also just wanted to take the 
people along with me to actually

927
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:08,080
figure out what a healthy life 
actually looks like because I 

928
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,480
haven't figured it out yet. 
I want to figure it out together

929
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,960
with all the people out there 
who are interested to do the 

930
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:16,280
same thing. 
So that's why I was like, also, 

931
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,680
as I said, there are so many 
podcasts on there, but I also 

932
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,520
like what regroup and says about
this where it's like, although 

933
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,480
there's so many things out there
already, nobody can ever create 

934
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,760
the same thing as you can 
because you have your own 

935
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:31,840
perspective on life. 
You have your own 

936
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,520
predispositions about learning 
and so on. 

937
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:38,360
And that's why I was also like, 
yeah, why don't I just start a 

938
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,640
podcast to try it out? 
I mean, I'm 4 episodes in right 

939
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:44,440
now. 
I'm like 96 episodes behind you,

940
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,240
you know? 
But it's, it's already so much 

941
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:49,320
fun. 
And I know that I actually enjoy

942
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:51,400
it a lot. 
So this is the most important 

943
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:52,400
thing. 
And I don't care about the 

944
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:56,480
clicks or whatever it is because
I just know I need to go through

945
00:50:56,480 --> 00:51:00,080
this journey here again to learn
what it means to be a good 

946
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:02,360
podcaster, to learn how to have 
a good conversation. 

947
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:07,400
And hopefully with it, I I will 
reach the 100 episodes more, get

948
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:09,920
be happy with what I created, 
yeah. 

949
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,840
Yeah, I love that man. 
I think it's very fun to see 

950
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:16,560
you. 
I mean, I followed you before, 

951
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:18,680
before I met you. 
I think it's just a really cool.

952
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:23,080
Also when you know, again, check
out Max's YouTube channel. 

953
00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:25,680
But it's just it's very diverse 
and I love that. 

954
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:29,480
Like you see that you are good 
at creating, but that you are 

955
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,040
also on a journey to figure out 
what is my angle, right? 

956
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,640
Like what, how do I show myself?
And I I really love like there's

957
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,440
a real arc, I think in your 
content in that sense. 

958
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:42,160
So I think that's really cool. 
But it's, it's totally true. 

959
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:45,920
Like I, I don't think I yet 
figured 100% out what it is 

960
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,240
because I'm I'm still in the 
figuring out phase. 

961
00:51:48,240 --> 00:51:51,040
Is it? 
I did now a lot of documentaries

962
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:54,520
then I did like even daily vlogs
for a certain time. 

963
00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:58,840
And it's like I'm still in the 
process of figuring out what 

964
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:01,480
works best for me, what I'm most
enjoying about. 

965
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:06,440
But it's it's like I see myself 
or my my life as my biggest 

966
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,680
project. 
And I want to create. 

967
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:11,880
I see myself as a creator. 
And therefore I just venture 

968
00:52:11,880 --> 00:52:15,000
into those different things. 
And I'm going to fail a lot of 

969
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,800
times. 
But hopefully at some point I'm 

970
00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:20,480
going to have figured out, as 
you say, what this big life 

971
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,680
project of mine will look like. 
Yeah. 

972
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:26,840
I think one of your coolest 
documentaries is also the one on

973
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,080
Monster where Jack Dorsey is 
also in, I think. 

974
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,320
I think that one was almost 
really well made. 

975
00:52:32,320 --> 00:52:34,360
So that's one of my favorites, 
to be honest. 

976
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:37,160
Thanks. 
Well, you traveled a lot all 

977
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:40,520
over the world and you had a lot
of conversations with a lot of 

978
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:43,640
different people about Bitcoin. 
What have been like your biggest

979
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,000
learnings or takeaways and where
did you find them? 

980
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,560
I think one of my biggest 
learnings is that I stopped 

981
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,240
pushing Bitcoin onto people. 
So I stopped orange peeling them

982
00:52:55,240 --> 00:52:59,120
completely in a certain degree. 
Like doing it directly by like 

983
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:01,600
pushing them. 
It's more like an indirect way 

984
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:05,360
of like positioning myself in a 
way that if they want to know 

985
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:09,800
something about it, they know. 
OK, Max is somebody who knows 

986
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,200
about Bitcoin, I can ask him. 
But there was a period of my 

987
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,080
life where I was very toxic 
about it and it was like, you 

988
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:19,400
don't get Bitcoin, you need 
Bitcoin and this is the way. 

989
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,520
But by travelling a lot, it's 
kind of like I got an 

990
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,720
appreciation that so many people
are at different stages on their

991
00:53:26,720 --> 00:53:29,920
life. 
For some, like Bitcoin doesn't 

992
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,200
even make sense right now. 
It might might have other things

993
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:36,840
to solve before they're able to 
actually stack Bitcoin or save 

994
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,760
in Bitcoin. 
And so one of my biggest 

995
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,000
learnings is to always meet the 
people where they are. 

996
00:53:42,280 --> 00:53:45,640
And I think as Bitcoiners, we 
kind of need to have some 

997
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:49,040
empathy for people that there 
are people out there who are not

998
00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:52,600
ready for Bitcoin yet and they 
are still like dependent on 

999
00:53:52,600 --> 00:53:55,240
other things and they'll or like
figuring out other things. 

1000
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:56,920
And then Bitcoin is kind of down
the road. 

1001
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:01,920
So although it's a very humbling
thing to see if you're like in 

1002
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:04,600
poorer countries and so on, 
those people don't have time. 

1003
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:07,840
Like I've been in Africa and 
there's like in Bitcoin and Kasi

1004
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:10,920
there's that people trying to 
orange pill a lot of people 

1005
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,800
there and they do the right 
thing and like people actually 

1006
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:16,400
use it. 
But we Bitcoiners, I think we 

1007
00:54:16,400 --> 00:54:20,920
tend to talk a lot about the 
ideal world, but the world is so

1008
00:54:20,920 --> 00:54:23,320
hyper complex and people are at 
different stages. 

1009
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,280
So I think this is one of my 
biggest learnings that the best 

1010
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:29,600
thing is doing something like 
you, you know, like if people 

1011
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,680
want to know more, they have all
of the resources to actually 

1012
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:37,360
dive down the rapture. 
But for me personally I stopped 

1013
00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,080
people pushing down the rabbit 
hole because this might even 

1014
00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,520
have the opposite effect where 
they are dead like resenting 

1015
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:46,160
Bitcoin and not looking at it 
for the next 5 years. 

1016
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,800
I had a funny thought. 
I agree. 

1017
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:52,960
I had a funny thought. 
I think it's also why, you know,

1018
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:55,320
we talked about crypto in the 
beginning, but that's also why I

1019
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,400
think crypto is such a immense 
distraction, right? 

1020
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,520
It's like, I mean, Bitcoin is 
running at the forefront of just

1021
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:09,520
general knowledge of people and 
crypto even runs, you know, 

1022
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:13,680
further than that, like, oh, we 
are quicker, faster or whatever,

1023
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:16,160
you know, and all these tokens 
and blah, blah, blah. 

1024
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,800
It's just we need to pay more 
attention to the problem. 

1025
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,200
Like why, why does Bitcoin 
exist? 

1026
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,280
Why does it have a reason to 
exist, right? 

1027
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:29,360
How can we help people that are 
surviving every month on a few 

1028
00:55:29,360 --> 00:55:33,680
$100? 
You know, how how can we even 

1029
00:55:33,680 --> 00:55:37,280
help them because they don't 
have the time and space to even 

1030
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:39,880
think about this, right. 
So yeah, I'm just thinking like 

1031
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:44,040
that that is what we should talk
about more rather than just 

1032
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,000
factually saying like this is 
how Bitcoin works and that's why

1033
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:48,960
you have to adopt it. 
Like I don't think that works 

1034
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:53,080
with with any good quality 
product or service in in 

1035
00:55:53,080 --> 00:55:54,600
general. 
Exactly. 

1036
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:58,600
Yeah, you need to, you need. 
That's also why I started doing 

1037
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:01,200
the videos because I felt like a
lot of people talk too much 

1038
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:03,120
about the details and about the 
facts. 

1039
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:07,600
But Bitcoin is like can also be 
a highly emotional thing, which 

1040
00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,200
like which when I think we 
Bitcoiners need to focus more 

1041
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:14,480
about why Bitcoin matters, not 
how it matters. 

1042
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,920
Like, because we always say 
like, oh, this just mathematical

1043
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:22,840
equation does this and the 
hardware wallet does this. 

1044
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:25,880
But if we focus more on like 
this storytelling part of 

1045
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:29,680
Bitcoin where it's like, OK, by 
actually adopting Bitcoin, this 

1046
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:33,640
family was able to leave their 
home country without being taxed

1047
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:35,240
into oblivion or something like 
this. 

1048
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,840
Then people understand it. 
Then it's like, you know, 

1049
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:39,800
there's a story people can 
understand. 

1050
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:42,560
But if you just say, oh, there's
this, there's one Bitcoin, 

1051
00:56:42,560 --> 00:56:45,760
there's one Bitcoin, it's that 
there's no inflation. 

1052
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:50,840
So it is, I think it's like I 
had troubles when you ask me 

1053
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:54,600
what Bitcoin did to me to 
actually put it into like words 

1054
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:57,960
because it's so abstract, but 
but telling a story about it. 

1055
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:01,960
I could tell my life story about
how I was before until the Muay 

1056
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,440
Thai fight. 
You know, everybody will see the

1057
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,200
change that I did and I don't 
need to put it into words. 

1058
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:11,280
But it's like the story of Max 
Max's life the last years. 

1059
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:14,920
And then they will see the 
impact which Bitcoin had on me 

1060
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:18,320
personally, and then might 
understand that if they adopted 

1061
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,320
as well, that they will actually
have an impact on the Mets. 

1062
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:24,640
And I think that's why the 
podcasts, as you said, this is 

1063
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:26,760
what you're trying to do. 
And This is why I think it's so 

1064
00:57:26,760 --> 00:57:30,280
important to actually make more 
content around this, figure out 

1065
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,560
how to tell the right stories, 
how to tell good podcasting 

1066
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:35,480
stories. 
And yeah, because this is 

1067
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,560
ultimately how people, I think, 
will understand. 

1068
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,400
Yeah, yeah, I agree. 
I just asked you before, before 

1069
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,840
we, we started recording your 
age, but you are like the 

1070
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,800
youngest millennial possible, 
right? 

1071
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,600
Like 9096. 
You're, you're of the last year 

1072
00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,640
of the millennials you just 
mentioned, you know, like you 

1073
00:57:54,640 --> 00:57:58,640
are not trying to orange bill 
anyone like directly anymore. 

1074
00:57:58,640 --> 00:58:02,240
But how do you experience 
talking with other millennials 

1075
00:58:02,240 --> 00:58:06,720
when, you know, I mean, for me, 
I don't find it difficult, but I

1076
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,960
think it's interesting. 
Almost all the topics that 

1077
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:14,160
millennials talk about 
eventually are connected, you 

1078
00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:16,000
know, or are downstream of the 
money. 

1079
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:19,320
So, you know, Bitcoin does come 
up in a lot of conversations 

1080
00:58:19,320 --> 00:58:21,680
that I'm involved in because 
it's just it touches all the 

1081
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:25,560
topics that, you know, I think 
millennials discuss in this 

1082
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,400
stage of their life. 
But yeah, like how how do you 

1083
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,800
experience that when when you 
talk to fellow millennial? 

1084
00:58:32,960 --> 00:58:36,120
Like I think most of them are 
now open to it because they they

1085
00:58:36,120 --> 00:58:38,800
hurt Bitcoin so often. 
It now it's like the third, 

1086
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:41,000
maybe the 4th, maybe the fifth 
touch point. 

1087
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,720
And a lot of people actually 
start to get more, more okay 

1088
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:48,880
with accepting Bitcoin as an 
asset or I don't think they 

1089
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:52,040
still see it as money, but they 
are at least like, OK, there's 

1090
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:54,640
something to it. 
It's still not that maybe I 

1091
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,440
should look into this. 
So I think there's a is a, an 

1092
00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,360
appreciation to it to a certain 
degree. 

1093
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,520
And I think a lot of millennials
also just have this inherent 

1094
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:06,400
feeling of something is wrong. 
They don't really know what is 

1095
00:59:06,400 --> 00:59:11,040
wrong, but they know that it 
feels off and they know that 

1096
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:15,160
they won't, it won't be able to 
buy a house in in 10 years. 

1097
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:19,640
They are like, it's just like, 
again, this, this gut feeling 

1098
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:21,640
with a lot, which a lot of my 
friends have. 

1099
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:26,520
And I think over the last years,
people are kind of are more open

1100
00:59:26,520 --> 00:59:29,800
to talk about this. 
Whereas like, you know, a couple

1101
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:32,520
of years back when I was 
mentioning Bitcoins, like 

1102
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:35,440
Bitcoin, it was like, what the 
fuck are you even talking about?

1103
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,320
It's you're a scammer. 
And it's, it kind of changed, I 

1104
00:59:38,360 --> 00:59:41,080
think like the public 
perception, especially with 

1105
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:44,360
Trump endorsing it and like more
and more public companies 

1106
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:48,440
actually adopting it as well. 
It's just, it's just a natural 

1107
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:50,800
way like Bitcoin to certain 
degrees. 

1108
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,880
Also going through the hero 
journey where it's like it's 

1109
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,240
playing the framework of 
becoming a money, like we said. 

1110
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:01,160
And part of becoming a money, 
there's probably also the part 

1111
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:04,400
where a lot of people need to 
deny it as a money and say it's 

1112
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:07,720
a scam. 
And it's just the same, same 

1113
01:00:07,720 --> 01:00:10,800
thing we personally are doing, 
the Bitcoin network is doing now

1114
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,000
as well. 
Yeah, yeah, I agree. 

1115
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:15,600
And you did a lot of 
experiments. 

1116
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:17,960
Again, if people check your 
videos, you will see, you know, 

1117
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:20,160
like living on Bitcoin while 
travelling. 

1118
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,960
Also like how do you look at 
Bitcoin like adoption of Bitcoin

1119
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:29,440
payments and what do you think 
is needed for broader adoption 

1120
01:00:29,440 --> 01:00:33,080
or to accelerate that? 
I think, I think the UX is 

1121
01:00:33,080 --> 01:00:36,480
getting there now like we like 
now it's pretty easy to spend up

1122
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,960
a wallet, even though it's 
custodial. 

1123
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:44,000
And I think we're now at a point
where the UX is kind of 

1124
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,920
comparable to traditional 
banking apps even better just 

1125
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,400
because they they're like 
offline in a certain time or 

1126
01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:55,160
like it's not re real time and 
you have like the weekends where

1127
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:57,200
it takes time. 
So what's if Bitcoin is getting 

1128
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,240
there? 
I think there's still a lot of 

1129
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:03,120
education happening because a 
lot of people just don't know 

1130
01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:07,720
why they should accept Bitcoin. 
It's like this, this, it's still

1131
01:01:07,720 --> 01:01:11,760
very abstract to them if they 
have a functioning Visa card and

1132
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:13,640
so on. 
So it's like, there's still 

1133
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,640
this. 
I think we can just solve it by 

1134
01:01:15,640 --> 01:01:18,400
telling more stories around it, 
and more stories will then 

1135
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:20,400
actually resonate with the 
people. 

1136
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,600
But I think the technology is 
going into the right direction. 

1137
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,320
Now. 
We just need to actually put 

1138
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,280
this into the minds of the 
people by actually showing how 

1139
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,680
it works. 
And so this is also how we said 

1140
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,400
that. 
This is why I made my videos 

1141
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:37,680
where it's like, can I actually 
travel the world by using 

1142
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,440
Bitcoin? 
This is, I think, just way more 

1143
01:01:40,440 --> 01:01:45,520
powerful than any advertisement 
or any article or something. 

1144
01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:49,200
If they actually see, OK, this 
guy can fly from Thailand to 

1145
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:53,280
Madeira and then go to Madeira 
and eat a steak with Brahm and 

1146
01:01:53,280 --> 01:01:56,600
paying with Bitcoin for it, then
they will understand, OK, it's 

1147
01:01:56,600 --> 01:01:58,560
actually possible to do this 
already. 

1148
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,320
So I think we're in a good 
trajectory and it's just like 

1149
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:06,640
the same challenges everybody 
needs to overcome, Bitcoin needs

1150
01:02:06,640 --> 01:02:09,600
to overcome it with due course. 
This is going to happen 

1151
01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:10,880
naturally. 
Yeah. 

1152
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:14,200
So when do you think we'll be 
living on a Bitcoin standard? 

1153
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:19,120
How long does that take? 
Probably, like still 10 to 20 

1154
01:02:19,120 --> 01:02:22,920
years, yeah. 
I think 10 is pretty fast. 

1155
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:27,720
Yeah, 10 would be fast. 
Yeah, that's probably even too 

1156
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:29,040
far. 
Let's say 21 years. 

1157
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,800
That's a good number. 21 years, 
All right, Yeah, I want to ask 

1158
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:35,440
you my last question and I ask 
everyone the same question, 

1159
01:02:35,880 --> 01:02:38,720
which is what is a core belief 
that you will never let go. 

1160
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:46,280
Core belief that I would never 
let go is people overestimate 

1161
01:02:46,280 --> 01:02:50,600
what's possible in the the short
term, but underestimate what's 

1162
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:54,400
possible in the long. 
And the long term is more 

1163
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,920
rewarding and the more happier 
way of living your life. 

1164
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:00,400
Awesome. 
Well, thanks for sharing and 

1165
01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:01,920
thanks for this awesome 
conversation. 

1166
01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,120
I love the I really love this. 
I think we went in an 

1167
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:09,360
interesting direction that I 
haven't gone into that much. 

1168
01:03:09,360 --> 01:03:10,800
I think we went pretty deep on 
that. 

1169
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,920
So I I really appreciate you and
good to see you again bro. 

1170
01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:18,120
Same here brother and thanks for
having me and see you around the

1171
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:21,360
world at some point. 100% 
awesome, have a good one. 

1172
01:03:22,720 --> 01:03:25,600
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, you can click here 

1173
01:03:25,600 --> 01:03:28,960
to find more just like it and 
click here to find all Bitcoin 

1174
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:30,960
for millennials podcast 
episodes. 

1175
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,520
Also, please like this video if 
you want to help shine a light 

1176
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:37,520
on the message of Bitcoin and 
subscribe to my channel to stay 

1177
01:03:37,520 --> 01:03:39,720
connected. 
I hope to see you for the next 

1178
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:40,760
episode. 
Bye.