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All right. 
Hey there. 

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This is Bram Constand and you're
listening to Bitcoin for 

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Millennials. 
Together with my guests on this 

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podcast, I go on a journey to 
discover how our current 

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financial system works, why it's
flawed, and why Bitcoin is the 

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most relevant technology that 
our fellow millennials should 

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understand and adopt. 
In this episode, I'm joined by 

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Leon Van Cum. 
He's a professional in the real 

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estate development sector and a 
prolific writer and thinker on 

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Bitcoin real estate philosophy 
and ethics. 

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He even wrote his master thesis 
of financial economics on 

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Bitcoin and it was titled A 
Qualitative Study of a Monetary 

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Alternative, Its Value and 
Applications. 

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He currently shares its thoughts
through his sub stack and 

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articles on Bitcoin Magazine and
I'm super excited to have him 

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come on the show. 
Welcome man. 

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Yeah. 
Thanks for having me. 

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Well, thanks for coming on. 
I love your writings and your 

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thoughts. 
And I saw some other podcasts, 

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appearances of you. 
And I think like, I personally 

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really like this kind of, like 
philosophy angle, thinking about

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Bitcoin. 
Like it's just so much more than

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a technology. 
And I think you have a lot of, 

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like, good thoughts on that. 
So yeah, I'm excited to chat 

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with you, man. 
I just wanted to do a quick 

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check. 
Are you a Millennial too? 

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Oh yeah, I am, yeah. 
I'm born in 91, so oh, wow. 

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OK, cool. 
Well, do you also see that it's,

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like, hard to help millennials 
understand Bitcoin? 

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Like, that's the reason why I 
started this podcast, of course.

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I had a conversation yesterday 
with a good friend of mine and 

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we said, you know, for there's 
this almost like lost 

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generation, like the millennials
that people that have born, that

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are born, let's say, I don't 
know, people under 30, they 

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naturally sort of grow up with 
Bitcoin. 

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So it's almost part of their. 
It's not part of their identity,

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but they don't necessarily 
question Bitcoin because it's a 

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technology that's already there 
like the Internet was for us, 

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that we grew up with the 
Internet, which question it 

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naturally grew on us and the 
millennials and also people that

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are a little bit older. 
They are in between the Internet

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and Bitcoin and some of them 
have a difficult time 

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understanding Bitcoin. 
It's interesting. 

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Do you think they like, do 
understand the Internet, like 

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now that it's actually like here
and everywhere, but but 

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especially for like millennials,
I really feel like we never got 

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any education on however, you 
know, this stuff works, right? 

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Like we, I mean, you're also 
from a Western European country,

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right? 
I also said this before, like we

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just grew up in the best time 
ever of everyone, whoever lived,

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right? 
And there were no problems, 

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There was just money and it 
worked, right? 

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So there's also not really an 
urgency to to understand, I 

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think. 
Yeah, there's a lack of 

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necessity. 
I had a conversation with 

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someone and very smart guy and 
he said to me, Leon, I I've been

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following what you've been 
saying about Bitcoin for a long 

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time, but to be honest with you,
I don't see the necessity. 

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Like you said Bitcoin, I have a 
credit card. 

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I can go to the ATM. 
I can get cash. 

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I can make a transaction to 
another European bank account 

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within an hour and don't pay any
fees. 

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But the world has changed 
Europe, neither Europe or North 

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America in the center of the 
global economic or hub. 

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So the necessity for Bitcoin 
comes from Western. 

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Western Asia, South Asia, 
Africa, Latin America, all these

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parts in the world that were 
excluded from the global 

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financial system so far and 
there was no ability for them to

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either store value or transact 
value. 

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So I think adoption of Bitcoin, 
of course also will be driven by

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these large financial players 
that are now entering the market

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and they will make Bitcoin part 
of their products. 

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But it will be also largely 
driven by the global S It will 

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completely change the power 
dynamic. 

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And I believe it's interesting 
because you see like 100 or 150 

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years ago in the Industrial 
Revolution, a lot of the 

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rustocracy that were wealthy 
because they owned land, they 

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missed the leap into the 
industrialized future. 

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So to see a lot of the people 
that have made money in the 

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industrialized world, in Europe.
They already missed a leap into 

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the Internet. 
In Germany, there's only one 

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company that's listed on the 
NASDAQ, that it's a technology 

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company that's SAP. 
Other than that, there's no 

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German company that I know of 
that has any significance in the

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digital world. 
So they already missed the 

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Internet and now they're missing
Bitcoin as well. 

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And the problem with that is 
that Bitcoin, the way that I see

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Bitcoin, I mean it's a very 
versatile asset, but essentially

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it's money and it's a battery 
which we can use to store 

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productivity as a company or as 
an individual. 

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And as more individuals and as 
more companies start to adopt 

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Bitcoin to store their 
productivity, whoever does not 

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own Bitcoin does not participate
in the increase of productivity 

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of all these global players. 
Yeah, I love that. 

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Like it's such a like turn 
around thinking in a sense. 

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And I love the aristocracy 
example and I feel it's 

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currently the same, right? 
Like, OK, I have something, I 

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don't really have a problem 
because other people don't have 

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what I have whatever is 
happening like over there to, 

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you know, make their life 
better. 

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I don't really have to be a part
of it because my life is already

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fine. 
Right. 

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But it's kind of like this, this
ignorance towards thinking. 

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It's actually very kind of like 
how do you say that, Like a 

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conservative thinking, right. 
Like as if the world stays like 

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it is and you don't have to 
continue to, to change, right. 

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And and I also think it's it's 
interesting that like global S 

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will probably prosper more from 
this than than the countries 

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that currently well let's say 
rule the world right. 

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Like the the Western countries 
like in in in several ways. 

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Yeah. 
I I actually, well we are part 

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of this western world so maybe 
we'll have like the the short 

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end of the stick of that. 
But I I love that irony in a 

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sense. 
Right. 

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Like it feels like really 
natural and logical that yeah 

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that's gonna happen. 
Like, what do you think about 

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that? 
I totally agree with you. 

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It's almost like Bitcoin is this
equalizer. 

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The monetary system has been 
also used to suppress certain 

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regions of the world and extract
productivity from these regions.

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I mean the Fiat system. 
By the production of money, the 

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state absorbs productivity of 
the market. 

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And it doesn't just happen 
within the market also happens 

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on a global scale. 
The French, for example, they 

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use the monetary system and the 
old colonies. 

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To to to decide over the 
economic potential of these 

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countries. 
So Bitcoin is this equalizer 

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that comes and it levels out the
playing field. 

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There's these amazing people 
from all over the world suddenly

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that can use Bitcoin to get 
paid, that can use the Internet 

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to find a job and it just 
creates a fair economy where if 

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you, it's really proof of work. 
If you put in the work, Bitcoin 

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allows you to flourish. 
No matter where you live, as 

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long as you have an Internet 
connection, it's amazing. 

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And to to keep the the fruits of
that labor actually protected in

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time, right? 
Like that is I think the essence

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what it's about. 
If we unwrap this like monetary 

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influence of a government on a 
country, whether it's like our 

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own country or as you said like 
a colony, like you see that in 

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Niger, right, where they want 
the French out. 

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It's actually interesting that 
in Niger they still have the the

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French Francs where France has 
the Euro, right. 

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So, so in this year they have 
the old currency of France that 

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France doesn't even use anymore.
But I think your point there is 

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right And and you can 
extrapolate that to to any 

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country, you know with a Fiat 
money system that the government

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decides what what the papers and
the coins are worth, right? 

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So if the work stays static, 
like people do the same work, 

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like they are a farmer or 
whatever, right? 

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Like that energy that they put 
in and produce, like that's a 

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constant, right? 
But the worth of the money is, 

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you know, let's say it goes up 
and down over time it all goes 

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down. 
Is that like the unfair thing 

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that you talk about? 
Yes, 100%. 

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I think very few millennials 
because of what you said, I 

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mean. 
The last 40-50 years because of 

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the credit expansion on the 15th
of August 1971, we Bitcoin us 

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notice Richard Nixon, the US 
President decoupled the gold 

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from the dollar and since then 
we have living under field stand

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up with no monetary base and 
credit expansion has caused a 

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boom based on credit and the 
western world. 

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So people believe that the 
economy is doing well. 

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But actually, if you think about
how bad we are able to store 

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value, we are actually living 
under financial oppression. 

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Because what money essentially 
is, it's a way to save our time.

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We use our time to work and we 
use money to store the 

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productivity we've created. 
And if through inflation, money 

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loses value, we lose the time we
used to make that money. 

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So the problem is, I think, that
we are not aware. 

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Of the disastrous monetary 
system we live under. 

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And Bitcoin also shows how the 
political and the financial 

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system works and the harm it 
inflicts. 

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So because when I got into 
Bitcoin, I'll be very honest 

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with you, and also for the first
four to five years of my Bitcoin

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journey, I personally was not 
aware of the state of our 

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financial system. 
I didn't even know what Fiat 

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money was, and I studied 
economics. 

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You know, I studied, I did my 
master's, and I had no idea what

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money is until I wrote my 
master's thesis about Bitcoin, 

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because nobody in school really 
taught me what money is. 

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I was told money is a product of
the state of the government, 

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which it is not. 
Money, naturally, is a product 

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of the market that we use as a 
medium of exchange. 

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And then there's certain 
monetary properties, most 

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importantly to store value 
function of money, which leads 

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to people accepting money 
because nobody would accept 

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money today. 
That loses value in the future 

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other than being programmed, 
which we are in school and 

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universities under the Fiat 
system. 

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And Bitcoin allows us to 
deprogram ourselves and it's 

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money. 
It's funny, right? 

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Because I think, like your story
is is even a bit worse, I think,

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than me as being like unknowing.
I said this in other episodes, 

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like I was 30, I was working at 
a bank, I had a mortgage. 

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Then someone explained to me 
that the money in the bank 

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wasn't mine and I was like, 
what? 

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And then I understood and I 
thought like, I'm such an idiot,

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like I'm participating in the 
system, but I just have no clue,

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right. 
So I think we are, we are 

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similar there. 
But also when when people say 

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money, you know, people think 
about the the paper and the 

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coins, but that is the currency,
right? 

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And the money is actually kind 
of like what? 

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What should be the underlaying? 
Well, I hear people say 

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technology or let's let's call 
it a vehicle through which we 

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exchange value, right. 
You do something for me, I 

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necessarily I don't have to do 
something for you. 

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Now we are not bartering, right.
So I have to give you something 

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that represents the value that 
you delivered to me, right. 

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And so when I think you talk 
about money, you mean that, 

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right, that technology to 
exchange that information. 

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And I think that's kind of like 
the first thing that people need

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to understand that you were not 
talking about the coins or the 

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numbers on the bank account, 
right? 

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00:12:02,940 --> 00:12:04,860
Exactly. 
I'm not talking about a currency

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00:12:04,860 --> 00:12:06,940
system, a national currency or 
anything like that. 

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I'm talking about literally the 
base layer, which used to be 

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gold. 
In the past, gold used to work 

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as a base layer, but through the
centralization of gold, it has 

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become very easy to manipulate 
the currency in the money 

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market. 
Because gold is so heavy, 

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central banks came into 
existence to halt the gold which

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was used by the government to 
finance wars a lot. 

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One of the first central banks 
that was founded, I think in 19 

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in 1694 was the Bank of England.
King William was waging a war 

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against France at the time. 
He was running out of funds. 

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Then he offered his population 
to bring in their gold. 

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Central Bank of England was 
formed, their heart to gold and 

229
00:12:48,460 --> 00:12:51,180
they gave the English people 
permissionary notes. 

230
00:12:51,180 --> 00:12:54,980
So the 1st paper currency there 
was linked to gold in a European

231
00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:58,100
country. 
We had a paper money in China 

232
00:12:58,100 --> 00:13:01,660
before there was the sphere Get 
Riks bank, which was the Central

233
00:13:01,660 --> 00:13:05,900
Bank of Sweden that was founded 
I think in 1668, but I'm not 

234
00:13:05,900 --> 00:13:09,660
sure if the year is correct. 
So anyway, in the 1700s these 

235
00:13:09,660 --> 00:13:11,980
central banks came into 
existence really because 

236
00:13:11,980 --> 00:13:15,220
aristocrats wanted to exercise 
complete control over money. 

237
00:13:15,900 --> 00:13:19,180
And they hijacked basically gold
and paper money, made the whole 

238
00:13:19,180 --> 00:13:22,260
thing worse. 
So Bitcoin is a base layer on 

239
00:13:22,260 --> 00:13:24,660
which different currencies then 
can be issued. 

240
00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:27,340
I mean, we already have 
different protocols like Cashew 

241
00:13:27,620 --> 00:13:32,260
or fediment that allow people to
issue E cash based on Bitcoin. 

242
00:13:32,740 --> 00:13:37,980
But Bitcoin as a base layer 
allows a new monetary system to 

243
00:13:38,020 --> 00:13:43,180
come into existence. 
And so if people don't 

244
00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:49,140
understand what money is, but at
the same time the money is being

245
00:13:49,140 --> 00:13:52,380
debased, right, the value of the
money goes down over time. 

246
00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:56,740
I think Safety in a Moose talks 
about a lot about like the time 

247
00:13:56,740 --> 00:14:01,460
value of money. 
But if we don't understand, if, 

248
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,380
if most people don't understand 
these things, what does it say 

249
00:14:04,380 --> 00:14:07,060
about like the perception of of 
time right? 

250
00:14:07,060 --> 00:14:10,340
Like this, Like short, short 
time preference and long time 

251
00:14:10,340 --> 00:14:14,220
preference. 
If you're if you're unaware of, 

252
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,600
well that you're probably 
subconsciously have a short time

253
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,720
preference, right? 
That's why people buy stupid 

254
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,880
stuff all the time. 
How can we change that? 

255
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:33,800
Or what would be your way of 
letting people understand that 

256
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:35,920
they are actually subject of 
that? 

257
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,800
Yeah, that is a very good 
question. 

258
00:14:39,250 --> 00:14:42,010
I personally work with a very 
specific analogy that has 

259
00:14:42,010 --> 00:14:44,770
allowed me to grasp the 
potential of Bitcoin. 

260
00:14:44,770 --> 00:14:46,970
I believe it's also something 
that a lot of millennials can 

261
00:14:46,970 --> 00:14:50,090
relate to, because essentially 
what is Bitcoin? 

262
00:14:50,090 --> 00:14:53,730
Bitcoin is mathematics. 
It's binary code, zero and one. 

263
00:14:53,770 --> 00:14:56,650
It's information that represents
money because money is 

264
00:14:56,650 --> 00:14:58,410
information. 
Who owns what, right? 

265
00:14:58,410 --> 00:15:00,770
That's what one hears. 
It's a database, which Bitcoin 

266
00:15:00,770 --> 00:15:02,090
is. 
Bitcoin is a database. 

267
00:15:02,810 --> 00:15:06,870
Bitcoin also interestingly. 
Is a revolution in accounting 

268
00:15:06,870 --> 00:15:11,790
because in Mesopotamia and 
Barbilon, the first sort of 

269
00:15:11,830 --> 00:15:16,430
records that we had for numbers 
were inventories of temples, you

270
00:15:16,430 --> 00:15:19,990
know, where people said this 
temple has that much cattle, for

271
00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:22,990
example, and that turned into 
numbers and also turned into 

272
00:15:22,990 --> 00:15:25,950
language. 
So money and language is closely

273
00:15:25,950 --> 00:15:28,400
interrelated. 
And then in the Middle Ages in 

274
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,600
Italy, we had the double entry 
bookkeeping. 

275
00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:34,200
So we didn't just have the 
inventory, we also had the cost 

276
00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,360
on the other side. 
Now Bitcoin comes along and 

277
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,360
Bitcoin has double entry 
bookkeeping plus the state of 

278
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,240
the blockchain is communicated 
through the whole network. 

279
00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,240
So now we have we have three, 
it's not single or double, we 

280
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:51,600
have three type of accounting 
system. 

281
00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:54,760
That's really interesting. 
I think about Bitcoin. 

282
00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:59,060
But because money has been 
broken for so long, certain 

283
00:15:59,060 --> 00:16:02,460
assets have taken on the role 
that money used to have in the 

284
00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:06,740
past and the store of value 
function of money and the 

285
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:10,500
collateral function of money. 
Because money is something that 

286
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:12,140
could use as a medium of 
exchange. 

287
00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:15,060
You could use it to store value.
Use it, you can utilize a unit 

288
00:16:15,060 --> 00:16:19,300
of accounting and you can use it
as collateral to lend against to

289
00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:22,820
then invest but the function of 
a store value. 

290
00:16:23,270 --> 00:16:26,110
And the function of collateral 
has been taken over by real 

291
00:16:26,110 --> 00:16:29,630
estate. 
Millennials, when I still talk 

292
00:16:29,630 --> 00:16:32,870
to millennials when they want to
build wealth, they always talk 

293
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:37,070
about real estate being like 
this, the space layer of them 

294
00:16:37,070 --> 00:16:40,070
building wealth, because that's 
what people have done for the 

295
00:16:40,590 --> 00:16:44,190
past 40-50 years. 
But the problem is, as 

296
00:16:44,190 --> 00:16:47,790
millennials, we have been priced
out of real estate because real 

297
00:16:47,790 --> 00:16:53,220
estate has become so expensive. 
So the analogy of Bitcoin being 

298
00:16:53,220 --> 00:16:57,100
digital real estate, meaning 
Bitcoin is a pristine store 

299
00:16:57,100 --> 00:17:00,860
value and Bitcoin is pristine 
collateral that you could 

300
00:17:00,860 --> 00:17:04,700
potentially lend against. 
Even though lending becomes less

301
00:17:04,700 --> 00:17:07,980
important under Bitcoin standard
because we can just save Bitcoin

302
00:17:07,980 --> 00:17:13,819
which serves as a store value by
default, everything else goes 

303
00:17:14,180 --> 00:17:17,500
down in value, then obviously 
Bitcoin then goes up. 

304
00:17:18,250 --> 00:17:22,089
Right, exactly, exactly. 
But it's still important to be 

305
00:17:22,089 --> 00:17:25,690
able to lend against your 
Bitcoin, especially as the field

306
00:17:25,690 --> 00:17:28,410
system is slowly collapsing as 
inflation picks up. 

307
00:17:28,690 --> 00:17:30,650
We need to be able to lend 
against our Bitcoin. 

308
00:17:31,010 --> 00:17:37,690
So I use the analogy of Bitcoin 
being digital real estate to 

309
00:17:37,690 --> 00:17:41,610
show to people the potential of 
Bitcoin, because right now in 

310
00:17:41,610 --> 00:17:44,890
real estate we have about 330 
trillion. 

311
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,000
U.S. dollars stored in real 
estate has become the number one

312
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,200
store value of humanity, but 
it's actually very bad store 

313
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,000
value. 
It's expensive to maintain, It's

314
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:56,360
easy to tax, it's easy to 
destroy, and it's not portable. 

315
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,840
Yeah, there's not no risk, 
right? 

316
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:01,680
There is risk. 
There's costs. 

317
00:18:03,220 --> 00:18:06,540
Anything like if you need to 
liquidate, you have to. 

318
00:18:07,220 --> 00:18:10,500
Like it's hard to instantly 
liquidate a house, right? 

319
00:18:10,860 --> 00:18:13,900
Absolutely, absolutely. 
In Bitcoin, you can liquidate 

320
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:16,060
easily. 
You can take you with you if you

321
00:18:16,060 --> 00:18:18,420
want to. 
If you live under totalitarian, 

322
00:18:18,980 --> 00:18:21,940
sorry, under totalitarian 
system, you can take Bitcoin 

323
00:18:21,940 --> 00:18:23,580
with you. 
It's mobile, it's portable. 

324
00:18:24,060 --> 00:18:27,660
So for us millennials who have 
been priced out of real estate? 

325
00:18:28,710 --> 00:18:30,870
You know, we shouldn't be sad 
about the fact we've been priced

326
00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:32,830
out of real estate. 
We should be happy about the 

327
00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:36,230
fact that we can buy Bitcoin at 
a price that's very cheap and 

328
00:18:36,230 --> 00:18:38,470
given its long term price 
projectory. 

329
00:18:39,790 --> 00:18:41,390
Yeah. 
So I like to work with that and 

330
00:18:41,390 --> 00:18:43,830
energy because it helped me to 
understand the potential of 

331
00:18:43,830 --> 00:18:46,630
Bitcoin. 
And when you then talk about 

332
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:50,150
wealth, do you mean 
accumulating? 

333
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:53,630
Well, basically you do work 
right with a job or a venture, 

334
00:18:53,630 --> 00:18:59,300
you accumulate value, which we 
call money and is wealth then 

335
00:18:59,980 --> 00:19:03,900
the storage in time of that 
accumulation or how do you 

336
00:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,900
define wealth in that sense? 
Yeah, good question. 

337
00:19:08,580 --> 00:19:12,260
Bitcoin gives us the opportunity
to store our productivity. 

338
00:19:12,580 --> 00:19:14,820
As you mentioned, it's near 
perfect. 

339
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:18,180
Money and wealth in that sense 
are called freedom. 

340
00:19:19,340 --> 00:19:22,060
I wouldn't call wealth being 
rich or anything like that. 

341
00:19:22,340 --> 00:19:25,340
This whole getting rich, like 
that's all feel, you know. 

342
00:19:26,110 --> 00:19:29,390
For me personally, wealth means 
having the time to do what I 

343
00:19:29,390 --> 00:19:33,630
want and deciding how I want to 
live throughout my day. 

344
00:19:34,390 --> 00:19:37,590
And in the Fiat system, you need
to work long hours. 

345
00:19:37,670 --> 00:19:40,230
Your money is worth less, and 
everything becomes more 

346
00:19:40,230 --> 00:19:43,030
expensive. 
If you own Bitcoin, you can 

347
00:19:43,030 --> 00:19:46,470
store your productivity. 
Bitcoin is disinflationary. 

348
00:19:46,470 --> 00:19:48,990
There's less Bitcoin. 
Over time, because of the 

349
00:19:48,990 --> 00:19:52,670
pristine monetary properties of 
Bitcoin, demand grows, so the 

350
00:19:52,670 --> 00:19:55,390
price of Bitcoin grows. 
Bitcoin is deflationary. 

351
00:19:55,980 --> 00:19:58,860
Which allows you to increase 
your purchasing power over time.

352
00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:01,780
So I would define wealth as 
freedom. 

353
00:20:03,020 --> 00:20:08,220
Yeah, I love that. 
I also once tweeted that I'm 

354
00:20:08,220 --> 00:20:14,500
actually in Bitcoin because I am
Risk 1st and that's freedom, 

355
00:20:14,500 --> 00:20:17,420
right? 
I'm not sure who said this. 

356
00:20:17,420 --> 00:20:19,460
I think it was British huddle as
well like. 

357
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:24,560
So as you said, you go to your 
work or you have to your job, 

358
00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,360
you take risk in a sense, right,
because you work for a company 

359
00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,560
that well as a certain risk 
profile. 

360
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,400
Well, if you work for the 
government, there's not that 

361
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:37,480
much risk or maybe now, maybe 
now there is, but you take risk 

362
00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,400
with your job or your venture 
and then you earn that money. 

363
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:46,680
But because the money is 
debasing in its value, you have 

364
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,440
to take on more risk to mitigate
that debasement, right? 

365
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,800
And that's why people invest or 
trade whatever, you know, from 

366
00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:01,000
whiskey to stocks to watches, 
NFTS, whatever they try. 

367
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,680
And I really align with what you
said, that freedom. 

368
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,480
Like, I don't do that because I 
have Bitcoin. 

369
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,080
Like I don't have to do that. 
I don't have to take on that 

370
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,330
extra risk, that extra anxiety, 
that extra job. 

371
00:21:14,730 --> 00:21:18,170
Basically. 
I also my, my second episode of 

372
00:21:18,170 --> 00:21:22,050
the podcast was with Peter 
Dunworth and he said like, this 

373
00:21:22,050 --> 00:21:26,050
is my job, this is my full time 
job, mitigating the risk and and

374
00:21:26,050 --> 00:21:28,650
seeing how we can earn more. 
It's my full time job and I have

375
00:21:28,650 --> 00:21:30,410
other people who work for me, 
right? 

376
00:21:31,050 --> 00:21:32,850
Like who can do that as an 
individual? 

377
00:21:32,850 --> 00:21:36,850
Like it's very hard, but you're 
basically forced to do it 

378
00:21:36,850 --> 00:21:40,770
because if you don't do it then 
you know every five years you 

379
00:21:40,770 --> 00:21:43,410
lose. 
Like I don't know what is it 30%

380
00:21:43,410 --> 00:21:48,930
of your of that what you own? 
Yeah, it's totally crazy. 

381
00:21:49,530 --> 00:21:53,890
If you think about it, Bitcoin 
acts as an ETF on global 

382
00:21:53,890 --> 00:21:56,610
ingenuity. 
If you own Bitcoin, you 

383
00:21:56,610 --> 00:21:59,370
participate. 
And everybody who uses Bitcoin 

384
00:21:59,370 --> 00:22:02,570
to store their productivity. 
And it's the smartest and 

385
00:22:02,570 --> 00:22:05,250
brightest and most innovative 
people in the whole world that 

386
00:22:05,250 --> 00:22:08,440
are starting to use Bitcoin. 
So if you own Bitcoin, you 

387
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,880
participate in everybody in the 
world that uses Bitcoin to store

388
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,400
value or to use it to transact 
value. 

389
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,000
So I personally went through the
stage where I was saving in 

390
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:23,440
Bitcoin, I was saving in ETFs, I
was saving in gold, and I was 

391
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,400
saving in stocks. 
And over time, Bitcoin obviously

392
00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:28,800
outperformed all these other 
investments. 

393
00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:30,880
And then I understood. 
You know, Leon. 

394
00:22:31,450 --> 00:22:34,930
Sell all these investments and 
just save in Bitcoin, because 

395
00:22:34,930 --> 00:22:36,650
Bitcoin is also not an 
investment. 

396
00:22:36,650 --> 00:22:39,210
It's just a type of money that 
we can hold. 

397
00:22:39,650 --> 00:22:42,930
And because it's such a good 
store value, it sort of allows 

398
00:22:42,930 --> 00:22:46,570
us to keep our productivity plus
participate in everybody else's 

399
00:22:46,570 --> 00:22:49,210
productivity. 
That I choose to save in Bitcoin

400
00:22:49,730 --> 00:22:53,970
and it has made my life a lot 
easier and I have become like 

401
00:22:53,970 --> 00:22:57,210
you probably as well, way more 
optimistic about the future if I

402
00:22:57,210 --> 00:23:00,530
talk with my friends that do not
own Bitcoin. 

403
00:23:01,090 --> 00:23:03,810
They are, generally speaking, 
very pessimistic. 

404
00:23:04,210 --> 00:23:07,650
Their outlook on the future is 
very pessimistic because they 

405
00:23:07,650 --> 00:23:12,410
know they can hardly outperform 
inflation and their family and 

406
00:23:12,410 --> 00:23:17,250
friends or their parents, they 
were able to sort of keep pace 

407
00:23:17,250 --> 00:23:19,210
with inflation through real 
estate. 

408
00:23:19,210 --> 00:23:21,850
But real estate has become so 
expensive that they can't afford

409
00:23:21,850 --> 00:23:24,010
real estate. 
So they are mentally sort of 

410
00:23:24,290 --> 00:23:27,450
kept in this cage of not knowing
their way out. 

411
00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:30,170
And obviously, Bitcoin would be 
the solution. 

412
00:23:30,700 --> 00:23:34,540
But for some people, it's very 
difficult to grasp the potential

413
00:23:34,540 --> 00:23:36,940
of Bitcoin without going through
this bull market. 

414
00:23:36,940 --> 00:23:39,540
So maybe we need another bull 
market for the millennials to 

415
00:23:39,540 --> 00:23:41,460
really understand the potential 
of Bitcoin. 

416
00:23:41,660 --> 00:23:45,820
Yeah, yeah, I agree. 
Yeah, I have the same. 

417
00:23:45,820 --> 00:23:52,100
I live way more frugal. 
Also like I I spent way less 

418
00:23:52,260 --> 00:23:55,380
money. 
Like I I don't know, I I, I find

419
00:23:55,380 --> 00:23:58,380
a lot of stuff like, I don't 
know, like I already have 20 

420
00:23:58,380 --> 00:24:02,260
pairs of shoes or something. 
Like I did that before, but you 

421
00:24:02,260 --> 00:24:05,140
know, now I don't anymore. 
Like, sometimes I kind of lurk 

422
00:24:05,380 --> 00:24:07,900
on the Nike sneakers app and I 
think like, OK, those are dope 

423
00:24:07,900 --> 00:24:10,460
shoes, but I'm not going to buy 
them, you know, like it's just 

424
00:24:10,740 --> 00:24:13,820
it's just a different way of 
thinking And and yeah, I think 

425
00:24:13,820 --> 00:24:18,950
it it makes me less, like you 
said, also anxious, more 

426
00:24:18,950 --> 00:24:21,630
optimistic. 
And also it feels like I see 

427
00:24:21,630 --> 00:24:26,230
more things. 
Like I see more, I almost want 

428
00:24:26,230 --> 00:24:29,190
to say like I see more nice 
things or something. 

429
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:33,540
Like in general, just you, you 
see technology going. 

430
00:24:33,540 --> 00:24:37,660
You see, I don't know, like I'm 
really into also art right now. 

431
00:24:37,660 --> 00:24:40,260
Like, I don't know, like it's 
just it opens your mind in a 

432
00:24:40,260 --> 00:24:44,140
certain way because you close 
like another door, like a door 

433
00:24:44,380 --> 00:24:46,740
of a room full of anxiety, I'd 
say. 

434
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:50,220
And it's also, and I and I 
wanted to see if you see that as

435
00:24:50,220 --> 00:24:52,460
the same like when you got rid 
of all the stocks and stuff, 

436
00:24:52,460 --> 00:24:57,340
like do you see it as like 
moving that value and saving it 

437
00:24:57,340 --> 00:24:59,860
into Bitcoin and not buying 
Bitcoin? 

438
00:24:59,860 --> 00:25:03,280
Is that how you see it as well? 
100% I see it as Bitcoin. 

439
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,640
As for me, Bitcoin as a storage 
for my productivity. 

440
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:13,720
And through Bitcoin I've also 
learned to focus Bitcoin for me 

441
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,320
and bodies focus and through 
being able to focus on myself to

442
00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,360
harness my energy, I have more 
energy I can store in Bitcoin. 

443
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:24,000
So to focus on oneself and 
flourishing a Bitcoin, I think, 

444
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,970
are closely interrelated. 
Well, I think, yeah, well, 

445
00:25:27,970 --> 00:25:32,170
that's almost, I would also 
argue like a philosophical 

446
00:25:32,170 --> 00:25:35,610
thing, right? 
Like if you believe that we all 

447
00:25:35,610 --> 00:25:39,690
have infinite energy inside us 
because there's infinite energy 

448
00:25:39,690 --> 00:25:44,450
outside of us, right? 
If you can find a way to put 

449
00:25:44,450 --> 00:25:49,290
that to work in the right way, 
you know what works for you, 

450
00:25:49,290 --> 00:25:53,850
because you also can use a 
technology that actually enables

451
00:25:53,850 --> 00:25:57,250
you to do that. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

452
00:25:57,250 --> 00:25:59,250
Like, I feel that the world 
would be a better place, you 

453
00:25:59,370 --> 00:26:03,450
know, Like, if we all have that.
100%, I mean, first of all, my 

454
00:26:03,450 --> 00:26:05,490
Bitcoin story is a story of 
failures. 

455
00:26:05,490 --> 00:26:08,370
Seriously, I've made so many 
misses, so much mistakes. 

456
00:26:08,610 --> 00:26:10,490
Multiple times I've thought 
about quitting. 

457
00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:14,770
I always continued same it's 
really a story of failure. 

458
00:26:14,770 --> 00:26:17,930
But when I learned about 
Bitcoin, or when I when I when I

459
00:26:17,930 --> 00:26:22,370
saw somebody transacting a 
Bitcoin for the first time, that

460
00:26:22,370 --> 00:26:25,140
was almost like. 
There was a feeling inside of 

461
00:26:25,140 --> 00:26:26,620
me. 
Intuitively I was like, wow, 

462
00:26:26,620 --> 00:26:30,060
this is actually how money 
should work. 

463
00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:35,060
But because I was so deep into 
the field system, because I was 

464
00:26:35,060 --> 00:26:38,500
a student of Benjamin Graham, 
Warren Buffett, Stanley 

465
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:41,660
Drunkmiller, Ray Dio, Bill 
Miller, like all these great 

466
00:26:41,660 --> 00:26:45,180
investors, but Bill Miller has 
become a bit connective right 

467
00:26:45,180 --> 00:26:46,380
now. 
But drunk Miller too. 

468
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,000
Drunk Miller too. 
And right now he holds Bitcoin. 

469
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,440
But I think he's made me halfway
there. 

470
00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,080
He's. 
Halfway there, exactly. 

471
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,160
I was a student of all these and
I was studying financial 

472
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,880
economics and that sort of 
always took me away from 

473
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,520
trusting my intuition. 
So intuitively, I knew Bitcoin 

474
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,840
was correct as I was absorbing 
the news and I had all these 

475
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:09,360
different opinion coming after 
me. 

476
00:27:09,360 --> 00:27:12,160
I was doubting myself so three 
years ago. 

477
00:27:13,070 --> 00:27:16,270
You know, I ditched to my TV. 
I don't consume the news when I 

478
00:27:16,270 --> 00:27:19,350
wake up in the morning. 
I meditate every time. 

479
00:27:19,350 --> 00:27:21,710
Seriously, every time I 
meditate, I become more 

480
00:27:21,710 --> 00:27:23,670
comfortable in being a 
bitcoiner. 

481
00:27:23,990 --> 00:27:27,790
So I think that we should trust 
our intuition a little bit more 

482
00:27:28,030 --> 00:27:30,910
and give less a damn about other
people's opinions and about the 

483
00:27:30,910 --> 00:27:33,990
news, because it can hold us 
back from understanding Bitcoin 

484
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:38,870
and trusting our intuition. 
Man, I like I fully agree. 

485
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:43,300
For me, it's also, yes, failures
on learning, new learning like 

486
00:27:43,300 --> 00:27:47,700
challenging yourself and also we
talked about this before we 

487
00:27:47,700 --> 00:27:50,580
recorded. 
But it's kind of like when you 

488
00:27:50,580 --> 00:27:54,720
do the work and I think everyone
who's in the Bitcoin says this, 

489
00:27:54,720 --> 00:27:56,880
like you have to do the work. 
But like what is the work? 

490
00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,000
The work is just studying. 
Like really for me it's, I don't

491
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,520
know if I reflect now it's kind 
of like, you know, this, this 

492
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,240
this stage and like high school 
where you, like really have to 

493
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,720
study a lot, right, To do a 
test. 

494
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,640
And then I don't know, like it 
feels kind of like that, right? 

495
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,960
Like you're constantly studying 
and like every day you're trying

496
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,200
you're trying to understand OK, 
what don't I understand what 

497
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,320
what are new things that I need 
to know And then also being 

498
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,040
confronted with. 
And I think you had the same 

499
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:29,400
like these old beliefs or 
whatever you thought you knew. 

500
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,240
You know like, however you want 
to define it like just how 

501
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,760
you're programs like. 
And not even in a bad way. 

502
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,320
But just like this is the 
information that you got as a 

503
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,680
child when you grew up and this 
is how you think it works. 

504
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:44,080
Then you at different points 
understand that it doesn't work 

505
00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,160
how you think it works. 
You know. 

506
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:50,750
And that's that's also like this
very personal kind of like ego 

507
00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:53,350
journey as well, right? 
Like you run into your own 

508
00:28:53,350 --> 00:28:55,630
incompetence, in a sense. 
Absolutely. 

509
00:28:55,630 --> 00:28:58,670
I had a I wrote down a tweet 
that you tweeted out because I 

510
00:28:58,670 --> 00:29:01,830
really liked it. 
You said the more and more I 

511
00:29:01,830 --> 00:29:05,430
dive into the global financial 
rabbit hole, the more I realized

512
00:29:05,430 --> 00:29:07,670
that everything besides Bitcoin 
is actually a Ponzi. 

513
00:29:08,270 --> 00:29:11,270
Yeah. 
Because what happens is you have

514
00:29:11,270 --> 00:29:13,550
to swallow these bitter pills 
you like. 

515
00:29:14,110 --> 00:29:15,750
Well, actually, this is what 
I've learned. 

516
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:17,590
That's not really true. 
And this is not really true. 

517
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:22,040
And this is not really true. 
But then also we have to be very

518
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,960
careful as Bitcoin not to become
arrogant because to be honest, 

519
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,520
that's what happened to me. 
I thought, you know, I 

520
00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:31,600
understood the whole word once I
figured out Bitcoin, but then I 

521
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,760
got completely wrecked in the 
bear market and I just 

522
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,080
completely got like ego 
destroyed, you know, so an eagle

523
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,080
gets you destroyed in Bitcoin 
and we need to leave our Fiat 

524
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,840
mindset behind. 
So first we have to swallow 

525
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,000
these splitter pills to learn 
that the Fiat system is 

526
00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:49,130
actually. 
Bad and things are not the way 

527
00:29:49,130 --> 00:29:52,050
that we think they are. 
Then we have to accept just 

528
00:29:52,050 --> 00:29:54,650
because we know that we are not 
better human beings than other 

529
00:29:54,650 --> 00:29:56,730
humans. 
We have to let our ego really 

530
00:29:57,330 --> 00:30:01,610
leave that we even have a bigger
problem because now we, well, we

531
00:30:01,610 --> 00:30:03,050
are on a podcast to talk about 
it. 

532
00:30:03,050 --> 00:30:04,810
We need to tell more people, 
right? 

533
00:30:04,810 --> 00:30:07,490
So that's the new problem then. 
Yeah, they will come. 

534
00:30:07,930 --> 00:30:09,690
Yeah, now. 
But I mean, we have a new 

535
00:30:09,690 --> 00:30:11,570
problem. 
So we have to ditch our ego. 

536
00:30:11,570 --> 00:30:16,230
But we also have a new problem. 
Because you know you you can be 

537
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:19,470
right. 
Like, we can be right, but that 

538
00:30:19,550 --> 00:30:22,110
that doesn't mean anything if 
other people don't agree. 

539
00:30:22,470 --> 00:30:26,390
That is very true, right. 
So, So that's also what I think.

540
00:30:26,390 --> 00:30:29,230
And we talked about that off 
Mike like for me and you have 

541
00:30:29,230 --> 00:30:34,790
the same like $100,000 Bitcoin 
for me it's like a I'm right 

542
00:30:34,790 --> 00:30:37,870
moment and I'm just gonna 
celebrate with myself. 

543
00:30:38,270 --> 00:30:42,190
But that's like, for me, that's 
like the moment where I just 

544
00:30:42,540 --> 00:30:45,740
know that I really did enough 
work and that I actually 

545
00:30:45,740 --> 00:30:50,660
understand what this is and then
we go on to educate more people.

546
00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:53,300
But that's like, I do think we 
need that, right. 

547
00:30:53,300 --> 00:30:57,220
Like this I'm right moment 
because you're constantly, yeah.

548
00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:01,420
Being pulled in different ways 
to, I don't know, like drop your

549
00:31:01,420 --> 00:31:05,260
belief or drop all the things 
that you now understand after 

550
00:31:05,260 --> 00:31:06,500
you actually did the work, 
right? 

551
00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:09,980
Like it's it's a it's a 
spiritual battle, kind of. 

552
00:31:10,340 --> 00:31:15,120
Yeah, 100% agree with you. 
Once the 100K comes, we'll be 

553
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,680
right. 
And it's good to be right. 

554
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,160
When you're right. 
And we again, we have to stay 

555
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,440
humble, not become arrogant. 
And Bitcoin is. 

556
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,920
I mean, every day for me is a 
journey, literally. 

557
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,480
Like the things are never as I 
expect him to be. 

558
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,960
But the Bitcoin price as we know
is very volatile and that's a 

559
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:35,120
beautiful thing. 
And the Fiat system is all based

560
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,830
around control. 
So within the Fiat system, 

561
00:31:37,830 --> 00:31:40,150
central banks, central 
institutions, they believe they 

562
00:31:40,150 --> 00:31:42,990
can control the market, they can
foresee the future and things 

563
00:31:42,990 --> 00:31:45,150
like that. 
And that in itself is very 

564
00:31:45,150 --> 00:31:47,830
arrogant because if you believe,
if you look at the market, the 

565
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:49,870
market is made out of millions 
of people. 

566
00:31:50,190 --> 00:31:54,030
And if a single individual like 
Jerome Paul or Christine Lagarde

567
00:31:54,310 --> 00:31:57,790
believes that they, plus maybe a
Commission, have more knowledge 

568
00:31:57,790 --> 00:32:00,350
than millions of people, I mean,
that is just completely crazy. 

569
00:32:00,350 --> 00:32:02,150
Yeah, it doesn't make sense at 
all. 

570
00:32:02,270 --> 00:32:07,420
It's also totally against how we
know it works, right? 

571
00:32:07,420 --> 00:32:09,580
Like, even why does the Internet
work? 

572
00:32:09,580 --> 00:32:13,020
Because it's a collective of 
people sharing information and 

573
00:32:13,020 --> 00:32:16,900
therefore the most valuable 
information and initiatives and 

574
00:32:16,900 --> 00:32:20,540
companies and whatever like they
they come up right. 

575
00:32:21,020 --> 00:32:25,620
Because there's a base layer of,
well, hopefully, you know, a 

576
00:32:25,620 --> 00:32:28,860
neutral base layer where 
everyone can participate and 

577
00:32:28,860 --> 00:32:32,700
just contribute in, in their own
way. 

578
00:32:34,090 --> 00:32:37,130
So it's like it's like a level 
playing field in a sense, right.

579
00:32:37,130 --> 00:32:39,610
And with money it's not. 
Yeah, I. 

580
00:32:39,770 --> 00:32:41,930
Feel Bitcoin, of course. 
I mean Bitcoin really levels out

581
00:32:41,930 --> 00:32:43,770
the playing field. 
It puts in the verse on the 

582
00:32:43,770 --> 00:32:45,530
center. 
It's it's. 

583
00:32:45,770 --> 00:32:47,170
I mean it's such a beautiful 
thing. 

584
00:32:47,170 --> 00:32:49,890
It empowers everybody if they 
want to It's it's so amazing. 

585
00:32:49,890 --> 00:32:51,690
I I'm so thankful to. 
Seriously. 

586
00:32:51,690 --> 00:32:55,650
I'm so thankful to be alive and 
I'm very thankful to be part of.

587
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,680
Of of what is happening right 
now that we can see this, right.

588
00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:03,120
Like last week I thought we we 
can call each other in 20 years 

589
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,760
and still talk about this or 40 
years and we can still talk 

590
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,480
about this like that. 
That to me is just so fun. 

591
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,040
Yeah, just to see where this 
like we are going to see where 

592
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,080
this ends up at least partially 
right. 

593
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,120
And and we were there at the 
beginning like I absolutely love

594
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,240
that. 
Another thought I had, which 

595
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,960
ties back to what we just talked
about about, you know, that it's

596
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:28,360
funny that kind of like the more
privileged Western countries are

597
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:32,160
gonna be, well, the laggards 
here. 

598
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:34,240
Well, that's our assumption, 
right? 

599
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,560
But also that. 
And so it's kind of ironic that 

600
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:40,600
they like, have to learn last, 
right? 

601
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,120
They have the freedom to think 
about anything because they are 

602
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:45,520
the richest, but they don't and 
that's why they become the 

603
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:48,720
laggards. 
Again very ironical, but when 

604
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,540
you just said you know the the 
the people who have this kind of

605
00:33:52,540 --> 00:33:55,940
like hubris, right, that they 
think they are better than other

606
00:33:55,940 --> 00:33:59,140
people. 
They are also the laggards in 

607
00:33:59,140 --> 00:34:01,820
what we talked about more like 
this personal spiritual 

608
00:34:01,820 --> 00:34:05,780
psychological journey that that 
we have gone through and are 

609
00:34:05,780 --> 00:34:08,260
still going through. 
I think when you when you are 

610
00:34:08,340 --> 00:34:13,380
you know into Bitcoin but like 
they have to do that. 

611
00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:18,040
They still have to do that work 
and and just because oh this is 

612
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,400
my assumption but they are like 
this right now. 

613
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,480
You know it's totally I don't 
know sometimes I feel like this 

614
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,880
like a God complex right. 
It's so weird that you even want

615
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,080
to be in the situation where you
decide what the value of money 

616
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:32,800
is for all all these millions of
people. 

617
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,239
Like I don't know I think it's 
so weird. 

618
00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,360
But what I like is that they are
going to be confronted with the 

619
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:40,880
fact that they were wrong. 
Like, we are going to be 

620
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,719
confronted with the that we are,
right? 

621
00:34:43,290 --> 00:34:45,850
And then they'll be like, what 
the fuck do I have to do now? 

622
00:34:45,850 --> 00:34:47,850
Like they have to do the work, 
right? 

623
00:34:48,330 --> 00:34:51,370
Yeah and yeah. 
And that's also what I love 

624
00:34:51,370 --> 00:34:54,130
about Bitcoin. 
If they don't do the work and 

625
00:34:54,130 --> 00:34:57,170
wanna work with Bitcoin, Bitcoin
will force them because it's 

626
00:34:57,170 --> 00:35:02,690
ultimate transparency, right? 
So anyone, your website is 

627
00:35:02,690 --> 00:35:05,530
called a system of rules. 
You know that is what Bitcoin 

628
00:35:05,530 --> 00:35:07,250
is, right? 
It's a system of rules. 

629
00:35:07,250 --> 00:35:10,210
And the rules are open for 
anyone to see and anyone can 

630
00:35:10,210 --> 00:35:12,730
join and anyone can follow. 
If you want to fuck with the 

631
00:35:12,730 --> 00:35:17,090
rules, you will be fucked with. 
And that that I love Because you

632
00:35:17,090 --> 00:35:21,210
you, you will be forced to do 
the work once you think it's 

633
00:35:21,210 --> 00:35:23,410
valuable. 
You still, like everyone has to 

634
00:35:23,410 --> 00:35:25,130
go through this. 
And even these people who are 

635
00:35:25,130 --> 00:35:28,730
now in charge, who are messing 
up the money, they will have to 

636
00:35:28,730 --> 00:35:31,970
do it too. 
Oh yeah, 100% the volatility of 

637
00:35:31,970 --> 00:35:32,810
Bitcoin. 
It's. 

638
00:35:34,190 --> 00:35:36,350
I mean, I don't know if 
beautiful is the right word, but

639
00:35:36,350 --> 00:35:39,510
in a sense it is very beautiful.
It is very spiritual because it 

640
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:42,270
is this ultimate ego killer, you
know, I mean, we are all the 

641
00:35:42,270 --> 00:35:45,990
same in front of Bitcoin almost.
They Mike a sailor, he recently 

642
00:35:45,990 --> 00:35:48,630
said in a podcast. 
He said, what is Bitcoin? 

643
00:35:48,630 --> 00:35:53,030
It's an asset, it's a network, 
it's a protocol and it's an 

644
00:35:53,030 --> 00:35:55,790
ideology. 
And some people have a problem 

645
00:35:55,790 --> 00:35:58,550
with Bitcoin being an ideology 
because they think it's 

646
00:35:58,550 --> 00:36:00,780
religious. 
But in a sense, it's just 

647
00:36:00,780 --> 00:36:04,420
spiritual. 
That's the fruit of an ideology,

648
00:36:04,820 --> 00:36:07,580
right? 
Like it's a consequence of a 

649
00:36:07,580 --> 00:36:11,220
certain ideology. 
Yeah, not for sure. 

650
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:14,380
And also the way that Satoshi 
introduced Bitcoin to the world,

651
00:36:14,380 --> 00:36:16,660
it's essentially also the 
difference between Bitcoin and 

652
00:36:16,660 --> 00:36:18,540
other currencies, 
Cryptocurrency, if you want to 

653
00:36:18,540 --> 00:36:21,460
call them cryptocurrencies, I 
don't like the word anyway, but 

654
00:36:21,460 --> 00:36:23,460
we just call them icoins or 
whatever. 

655
00:36:23,820 --> 00:36:28,580
It's that Bitcoin has been this 
immaculation of this individual.

656
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,920
That has sort of has left his or
her or there's ego behind to 

657
00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:34,880
give something through the 
world. 

658
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:39,080
And everybody else that tries to
build something that competes 

659
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:43,840
with Bitcoin, of course they 
will lose, but it's also it is 

660
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,240
their ego that made them build 
us, because if they would not 

661
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,650
have that ego, they would have 
had Bitcoin. 

662
00:36:49,170 --> 00:36:51,330
Yeah, they would have part of 
the Bitcoin story, yes. 

663
00:36:51,850 --> 00:36:54,690
That's why I don't want to. 
I had look, I had my learning 

664
00:36:54,690 --> 00:36:56,370
phase. 
I also dealt with all kinds of 

665
00:36:56,370 --> 00:36:57,650
blockchains. 
At the end of the day, I 

666
00:36:57,650 --> 00:37:00,530
understand that Bitcoin is 
paramount for me And something I

667
00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:04,130
also understood and it's very 
important, Good money always 

668
00:37:04,130 --> 00:37:07,250
demonetizes bad money. 
So we had different types of 

669
00:37:07,250 --> 00:37:11,050
money and history. 
And eventually we had rare 

670
00:37:11,050 --> 00:37:14,330
metals that demonetize other 
metals, so we had gold and 

671
00:37:14,330 --> 00:37:17,220
silver. 
Eventually Go demonetized silver

672
00:37:17,220 --> 00:37:20,220
and we had a gold standard. 
The only reason we have multiple

673
00:37:20,220 --> 00:37:23,340
currencies today is because we 
are forced by law to use them. 

674
00:37:23,460 --> 00:37:27,420
So governments and central banks
can control money and absorb 

675
00:37:27,420 --> 00:37:29,580
productivity through inflation 
from the market. 

676
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:32,980
But in theory, the market tends 
to the best money, and that 

677
00:37:32,980 --> 00:37:36,060
money will be Bitcoin. 
And if you call it a utility 

678
00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:39,020
token, or you call it this, or 
you call it that, at the end of 

679
00:37:39,020 --> 00:37:40,780
the day it's a medium of 
exchange. 

680
00:37:41,110 --> 00:37:44,190
And it is money, and it has to 
compete against Bitcoin and will

681
00:37:44,190 --> 00:37:47,910
not be able to compete against 
Bitcoin over a period of two to 

682
00:37:47,910 --> 00:37:51,230
three cycles. 
Surely icons go up in price 

683
00:37:51,230 --> 00:37:53,870
against Bitcoin once they're 
launched, but then usually a 

684
00:37:53,870 --> 00:37:56,990
crash in price. 
Even Ethereum, which obviously 

685
00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:59,990
has a use case in the gaming 
world, because that's almost how

686
00:37:59,990 --> 00:38:01,630
I see it. 
Like a theorem is sort of like 

687
00:38:01,630 --> 00:38:05,310
this gaming thing or like 
gamified finance or whatever. 

688
00:38:05,310 --> 00:38:08,430
I don't know how to be call it. 
I personally don't want to be 

689
00:38:08,430 --> 00:38:10,850
part of it. 
But I understand why people want

690
00:38:10,850 --> 00:38:13,930
to be part of it because it's 
like the Fiat system basically. 

691
00:38:14,370 --> 00:38:18,170
But also Ethereum has lost value
when it measured in Bitcoin 

692
00:38:18,170 --> 00:38:20,970
drastically. 
So people should be aware, I 

693
00:38:20,970 --> 00:38:23,410
mean, a lot of millennials that 
I talk to, they always say, Oh 

694
00:38:23,410 --> 00:38:26,730
yeah, I've got 3040% of My 
Portfolio. 

695
00:38:26,730 --> 00:38:29,570
And the Ripple and no, no, like 
in Bitcoin, exactly. 

696
00:38:29,570 --> 00:38:32,570
The rest and like Ethereum and 
Ripple and like this and that. 

697
00:38:32,940 --> 00:38:36,300
So they apply the Fiat mindset 
where you have to diversify and 

698
00:38:36,420 --> 00:38:39,660
look for assets because there's 
so much risk in each individual 

699
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:41,900
asset. 
But in Bitcoin, you don't need 

700
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:44,420
to diversify. 
Bitcoin is your savings account,

701
00:38:44,420 --> 00:38:47,220
that's your capital base. 
And if you want to, you can 

702
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:50,700
diversify out of Bitcoin into 
real estate if you want to lift 

703
00:38:50,820 --> 00:38:53,700
and own Bitcoin real estate for 
its utility value. 

704
00:38:54,130 --> 00:38:57,050
Or you diversify into a startup 
that you invest in that you 

705
00:38:57,050 --> 00:38:58,770
think is going to outperform 
Bitcoin. 

706
00:38:58,970 --> 00:39:01,650
Or you believe it's important to
invest, for example, Lightning 

707
00:39:01,650 --> 00:39:03,530
companies to support the 
ecosystem. 

708
00:39:04,250 --> 00:39:06,690
But you don't need to diversify 
within crypto. 

709
00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:09,130
There's no such thing as 
diversification. 

710
00:39:09,130 --> 00:39:15,490
Encrypt that does not exist. 
How would you explain that the 

711
00:39:15,490 --> 00:39:20,190
volatility is not a risk? 
You actually very good question 

712
00:39:20,190 --> 00:39:23,230
because when people say Bitcoin 
is risky that they actually 

713
00:39:23,230 --> 00:39:26,830
refer to the volatility, yes, 
the question is what's your time

714
00:39:26,830 --> 00:39:29,550
horizon? 
You know, I mean right now we 

715
00:39:29,550 --> 00:39:32,710
are in a phase where it's going 
to take maybe multiple decades 

716
00:39:32,710 --> 00:39:34,910
for us to get on a Bitcoin 
standard. 

717
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:37,430
It can be 1020, thirty years. 
We'll see right. 

718
00:39:38,270 --> 00:39:42,110
And within that time frame, the 
volatility of Bitcoin is only 

719
00:39:42,110 --> 00:39:45,910
dangerous. 
If you only use Bitcoin to save 

720
00:39:45,910 --> 00:39:48,830
the fruits of your labor. 
But if you for example, say you 

721
00:39:48,830 --> 00:39:54,790
are a starter and you save 5 to 
10% of your money in Bitcoin, 

722
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:59,950
that is money that you don't 
need for payments or anything 

723
00:39:59,950 --> 00:40:03,590
else or for investments. 
And you can keep the money that 

724
00:40:03,590 --> 00:40:06,110
you stored in Bitcoin for up to 
10 years. 

725
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:08,950
The volatility is not risky at 
all. 

726
00:40:09,410 --> 00:40:12,610
If you of course store all your 
productivity in Bitcoin, the 

727
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:16,010
volatility is risky. 
But you need to learn how to 

728
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:19,330
work with the volatility. 
And then the volatility does not

729
00:40:19,330 --> 00:40:24,810
become risky because the real 
risk lies in default of Fiat 

730
00:40:24,810 --> 00:40:26,730
governments. 
When we talk about a risk free 

731
00:40:26,730 --> 00:40:30,890
rate under Fiat standard, we 
usually refer to a treasury. 

732
00:40:30,890 --> 00:40:34,970
Why the treasury? 
Theoretically through the. 

733
00:40:35,050 --> 00:40:40,360
Always paid is always paid. 
Yeah, it's always paid. 

734
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,320
Theoretically, you know the 
yield compensates for the loss 

735
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:46,200
of purchasing power that Fiat 
money experiences due to 

736
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,040
monetary inflation. 
Plus, we believe that a 

737
00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,760
sovereign country cannot 
default. 

738
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,000
But we know that is bullshit. 
The risk free rate in Bitcoin is

739
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,360
your Bitcoin and cold storage, 
right? 

740
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,560
That is actually the risk free 
rate of Bitcoin and there's very

741
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,040
little risk if you hold your 
Bitcoin and cold storage. 

742
00:41:05,500 --> 00:41:08,380
And so when when you talk to 
your millennial friends and they

743
00:41:08,380 --> 00:41:12,420
have this anxiety, they cannot 
get into real estate. 

744
00:41:12,420 --> 00:41:15,020
They hear you talk about 
Bitcoin, but they still don't 

745
00:41:15,060 --> 00:41:17,100
get into Bitcoin. 
Like what? 

746
00:41:17,100 --> 00:41:20,220
What is the biggest mental 
hurdle that most people need to 

747
00:41:20,420 --> 00:41:23,500
get over before, you know, 
there's there's obviously all 

748
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,820
these different dimensions of 
Bitcoin with all these little 

749
00:41:25,820 --> 00:41:27,460
threads that you could pull, 
right? 

750
00:41:27,460 --> 00:41:29,340
Like all these little different 
topics and things. 

751
00:41:30,620 --> 00:41:32,180
But what's what? 
What do you think is like the 

752
00:41:32,180 --> 00:41:34,620
biggest mental hurdle that that 
people need to get over? 

753
00:41:35,110 --> 00:41:39,150
Yeah, I I maybe start with 
myself and then I myself as an 

754
00:41:39,150 --> 00:41:41,150
example. 
So the biggest hurdle for me was

755
00:41:41,150 --> 00:41:44,390
my ego. 
I had problems understanding 

756
00:41:44,390 --> 00:41:46,670
that Bitcoin is a better store 
of weight than real estate 

757
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:50,710
because I grew up around the 
real estate business and that 

758
00:41:50,710 --> 00:41:52,630
sort of also was part of my 
identity. 

759
00:41:52,630 --> 00:41:56,350
So for me it was my ego. 
That's number one you have to 

760
00:41:56,350 --> 00:41:57,910
under. 
You have to accept the fact that

761
00:41:57,910 --> 00:42:00,070
you're not right. 
Like Bitcoin just humbles you 

762
00:42:00,790 --> 00:42:04,030
and that regard #2. 
We have to literally. 

763
00:42:05,130 --> 00:42:08,930
We have to accept the fact that 
we've been possibly lied to and 

764
00:42:08,930 --> 00:42:12,890
manipulated our whole life. 
The school system has told us a 

765
00:42:12,890 --> 00:42:21,810
lot of lies and we have come to 
believe that money is a product 

766
00:42:21,810 --> 00:42:25,530
of the state and it's not. 
So there's a bitter pill that we

767
00:42:25,530 --> 00:42:27,690
need to swallow. 
We need to become self 

768
00:42:27,690 --> 00:42:30,410
responsible. 
We cannot rely on any third 

769
00:42:30,410 --> 00:42:32,930
party because if you think about
it, that's what the state takes 

770
00:42:32,930 --> 00:42:35,250
advantage of. 
It takes advantage of the 

771
00:42:35,250 --> 00:42:37,890
individual being afraid of 
taking self responsibility. 

772
00:42:38,210 --> 00:42:40,610
Then when you go through 
kindergarten and school and 

773
00:42:40,610 --> 00:42:43,410
university, you're never taught 
to make a decision. 

774
00:42:43,850 --> 00:42:45,650
You are basically just taught to
obey. 

775
00:42:46,530 --> 00:42:49,490
So you need to become self 
responsible and I think that 

776
00:42:49,490 --> 00:42:51,530
will allow you to get into 
Bitcoin. 

777
00:42:52,010 --> 00:42:57,410
And sometimes pain is a good 
teacher so you miss getting into

778
00:42:57,410 --> 00:42:59,010
Bitcoin. 
Bitcoin goes through a bull 

779
00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:01,450
market and then maybe people get
in. 

780
00:43:01,810 --> 00:43:05,490
Other people have the ego to 
then dismiss Bitcoin again once 

781
00:43:05,490 --> 00:43:09,450
it goes to another bear market. 
But to be very honest with you, 

782
00:43:09,490 --> 00:43:14,010
I also came to understand 
everybody's on their own journey

783
00:43:14,370 --> 00:43:16,370
and I cannot change people's 
mind. 

784
00:43:16,850 --> 00:43:20,570
Most of my friends, most of my 
friends are into Bitcoin like 

785
00:43:20,570 --> 00:43:24,130
because for the past years if I 
tell you by Bitcoin, it 

786
00:43:24,130 --> 00:43:26,770
basically means I care for you. 
But I know that. 

787
00:43:27,250 --> 00:43:30,810
Dude, I have exactly the same. 
I have texts to my friends in 

788
00:43:30,810 --> 00:43:32,540
caps. 
Please buy one. 

789
00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:33,740
Please buy one. 
I love you. 

790
00:43:33,740 --> 00:43:35,260
Please buy. 
Buy one. 

791
00:43:35,260 --> 00:43:36,660
Please. 
At, like, 5K. 

792
00:43:36,940 --> 00:43:40,660
And then, like, from from sweet 
to angry to sending heart 

793
00:43:40,660 --> 00:43:42,660
emojis, like, I love you. 
Can you please do it? 

794
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:44,940
Like, just throw. 
Come on. 

795
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:49,060
Yeah, I have exactly the same. 
You feel very altruistic, right?

796
00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:51,420
Like you just like. 
But it's also for me that really

797
00:43:51,420 --> 00:43:53,380
works me up. 
Like, don't you see? 

798
00:43:53,380 --> 00:43:57,100
Like I'm giving this to you. 
Like that's when I also had to 

799
00:43:57,100 --> 00:44:00,740
understand I'm not responsible 
for somebody else. 

800
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,520
So that feeling I have this urge
of you need to buy Bitcoin. 

801
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,280
Sometimes what I do now, I 
literally I do nothing. 

802
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,320
I don't even send them my 
podcasts anymore. 

803
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:12,760
I just concentrate on my own 
journey. 

804
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,800
The people around me that got 
it, I communicate with them, we 

805
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:19,520
give each other feedback. 
I have my group of also Bitcoin,

806
00:44:19,520 --> 00:44:21,920
our friends I met through 
Bitcoin, that we give each other

807
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:24,200
comfort and harsh times and so 
forth. 

808
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,180
But I actually stopped feeding 
the urge of telling everybody to

809
00:44:28,180 --> 00:44:32,340
buy Bitcoin because I know it 
can be annoying also and I need 

810
00:44:32,340 --> 00:44:34,940
to also let go. 
I think that also in a way is 

811
00:44:34,940 --> 00:44:38,380
maybe ego, that we need feel 
responsible for other people, 

812
00:44:38,380 --> 00:44:40,820
but we all are responsible for 
ourselves. 

813
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:44,820
Yeah, yeah. 
I don't know if I feel, I don't 

814
00:44:44,820 --> 00:44:47,820
feel responsibility. 
It's more like this enthusiasm, 

815
00:44:47,820 --> 00:44:52,060
kind of like I see this thing 
and and you know me for years, 

816
00:44:52,060 --> 00:44:53,780
right? 
Like you know that I'm a 

817
00:44:53,780 --> 00:44:58,350
diligent risk averse. 
A person who likes to dive into,

818
00:44:58,630 --> 00:45:00,670
you know rabbit holes and learn 
about stuff. 

819
00:45:00,670 --> 00:45:02,470
Well, this is my conclusion, you
know. 

820
00:45:02,470 --> 00:45:04,550
But again that's. 
I think it's fair. 

821
00:45:04,750 --> 00:45:07,950
That's also kind of ego, right? 
Because then maybe I'm 

822
00:45:07,950 --> 00:45:12,550
validating that's what I just 
said that that I'm actually 

823
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:14,270
dead. 
But I already know that, right? 

824
00:45:14,270 --> 00:45:17,190
So I I don't, I don't need that 
validation. 

825
00:45:17,350 --> 00:45:20,950
So yeah, it's an interesting 
it's an interesting experience 

826
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:25,340
that I I. 
Yeah, I'm just, yeah, I'm just 

827
00:45:25,340 --> 00:45:27,980
really enthusiastic about it and
I just want other people to see 

828
00:45:27,980 --> 00:45:30,340
and as in to help them. 
But I agree with you. 

829
00:45:30,340 --> 00:45:34,060
Like everyone has their own kind
of path in this, right? 

830
00:45:34,060 --> 00:45:37,060
Like, I'm already happy that I 
orange built my girlfriend and 

831
00:45:37,060 --> 00:45:39,220
she's like totally into it. 
So that's great. 

832
00:45:39,540 --> 00:45:43,250
That's that's great. 
I wanted to ask one more thing 

833
00:45:43,250 --> 00:45:44,690
about it. 
It's interesting, right? 

834
00:45:44,690 --> 00:45:47,970
Like the words you use, you say 
like we've been possibly we've 

835
00:45:47,970 --> 00:45:51,370
been lied to, controlled by the 
states. 

836
00:45:51,410 --> 00:45:53,210
Like I talked with other people 
about this as well. 

837
00:45:53,210 --> 00:45:55,810
Like some people say inflation 
is theft and all these things. 

838
00:45:55,810 --> 00:45:59,210
And in my experience, when I use
these words or say these things 

839
00:45:59,210 --> 00:46:02,770
that are not even, I don't feel 
it's like an opinion. 

840
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:05,560
Well, maybe inflation is theft 
is an opinion, but what you 

841
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,760
said, right, like you are 
brought up in a certain way, 

842
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,480
things are have been told to 
you. 

843
00:46:10,600 --> 00:46:13,360
Some things are just not true. 
Like that's not even, that's not

844
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,920
an opinion, it's just what it 
is, right. 

845
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,960
But those words sometimes sounds
really harsh for people in my 

846
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,840
experience, right? 
And that's instantly gets them 

847
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,640
kind of like on the fence or 
like it makes a conversation 

848
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,880
quite hard, like, well, you 
recognize this, but like, how do

849
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,320
you, how do you walk around 
this, right. 

850
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:37,720
Yeah, it totally does. 
It sets people off sometimes. 

851
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,360
But I believe I just say what I 
think and then it's about how 

852
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,400
somebody deals with what I've 
said, okay. 

853
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:52,320
So it's not in my it's not in my
responsibility to deal with 

854
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,920
people's feelings about how they
deal with what I said. 

855
00:46:57,110 --> 00:46:58,950
But these things can sound very 
harsh. 

856
00:46:58,950 --> 00:47:00,950
But there's one example that 
I'll take. 

857
00:47:00,950 --> 00:47:07,190
So on 1516, Propanicos, who 
wrote a book about the quantity 

858
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:11,070
theory of money and Ziggys won 
the first he was the king. 

859
00:47:11,070 --> 00:47:15,070
Back then there was a pro 
Prussian Kingdom in Poland, and 

860
00:47:15,070 --> 00:47:17,990
the king Ziggys won the first. 
He issued new currency all the 

861
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:20,950
time and he based the currency 
and expected the wealth of the 

862
00:47:20,950 --> 00:47:24,620
nation to go up. 
And then he asked for panic was,

863
00:47:24,620 --> 00:47:25,940
you know, why is that not 
happening? 

864
00:47:25,940 --> 00:47:28,980
And he basically told them and 
he came up with the quantity 

865
00:47:28,980 --> 00:47:31,620
theory of money. 
If you increase the quantity of 

866
00:47:31,620 --> 00:47:35,020
money, individual units lose 
purchasing power. 

867
00:47:35,380 --> 00:47:37,500
And he wasn't listened to it. 
That's 500 years ago. 

868
00:47:37,860 --> 00:47:42,220
Then on his deathbed, he 
published a book that basically 

869
00:47:42,220 --> 00:47:45,620
said that the Earth is not in 
the center of the known 

870
00:47:45,620 --> 00:47:47,220
universe, but it's actually the 
sun. 

871
00:47:47,540 --> 00:47:51,420
So he listed geocentric model 
and he said it's a heliocentric 

872
00:47:51,420 --> 00:47:54,370
model. 
And then I think 6070 years 

873
00:47:54,370 --> 00:47:57,810
later, Galileo, Galileo came 
around and he actually saw 

874
00:47:57,810 --> 00:48:00,450
because he had the first 
telescope, he said what what 

875
00:48:00,850 --> 00:48:02,650
Copernicus said is actually 
true. 

876
00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:07,370
Back then people wanted to kill,
burn and in jail Galileo for 

877
00:48:07,370 --> 00:48:11,610
what he said, but he just 
observed reality but the people 

878
00:48:11,650 --> 00:48:13,970
were. 
So when I talk about with the 

879
00:48:13,970 --> 00:48:16,690
light to, I don't talk about the
conspiracy theory. 

880
00:48:16,690 --> 00:48:20,090
I just say there are certain 
beliefs that we have that are 

881
00:48:20,090 --> 00:48:24,370
not true, but some people take 
them for true and they make you 

882
00:48:24,370 --> 00:48:28,290
believe these stories similar to
how the church disagreed with 

883
00:48:28,290 --> 00:48:32,050
Copernicus and Galileo when they
came up with the heliocentric 

884
00:48:32,050 --> 00:48:34,890
model of the world that says 
that the sun is in the center of

885
00:48:34,890 --> 00:48:37,930
the non universe. 
So that's what I mean when I 

886
00:48:37,930 --> 00:48:41,010
when I use these words and I 
believe like you said, we are 

887
00:48:41,010 --> 00:48:43,490
just observing what is 
happening, I'm not making 

888
00:48:43,490 --> 00:48:46,410
anybody responsible. 
I even believe that somebody 

889
00:48:46,410 --> 00:48:50,250
like Christine Lagarde, she has 
such a big ego that she just 

890
00:48:50,250 --> 00:48:55,130
wants her signature on a €50 
piece of paper and takes into 

891
00:48:55,130 --> 00:48:58,370
account that she basically 
destroys the lives of millions 

892
00:48:58,370 --> 00:49:01,290
of people through inflation. 
That's her God complex. 

893
00:49:02,730 --> 00:49:05,890
I don't even know that she ever 
questioned her her way of 

894
00:49:05,890 --> 00:49:11,530
thinking, so it is in my 
responsibility to make people 

895
00:49:11,530 --> 00:49:13,930
maybe reflect on. 
The way. 

896
00:49:13,930 --> 00:49:15,090
Exactly, exactly. 
Yeah. 

897
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:17,450
So, So what you just said about 
Lagarde, right, like. 

898
00:49:18,650 --> 00:49:23,730
Some people might find that 
harsh, but it's I think it's 

899
00:49:23,730 --> 00:49:27,050
interesting because I agree that
it's like from observation, 

900
00:49:27,330 --> 00:49:29,450
right? 
Like if you are just observing 

901
00:49:30,210 --> 00:49:34,770
from, well then if I speak for 
myself, like someone from non 

902
00:49:34,770 --> 00:49:37,250
economic, non finance 
backgrounds, nothing, right? 

903
00:49:37,250 --> 00:49:40,730
So I I see myself as like, yeah,
like I said, an investor, 

904
00:49:40,770 --> 00:49:44,810
someone who researches stuff. 
And I I try to like, observe 

905
00:49:44,810 --> 00:49:46,770
from like a neutral point of 
view, like. 

906
00:49:47,290 --> 00:49:51,010
Some stuff in the money system 
just doesn't fucking work, 

907
00:49:51,370 --> 00:49:53,690
right? 
And then if you see someone like

908
00:49:53,690 --> 00:49:58,770
Lagarde just talking in like One
Direction with like one message 

909
00:49:58,770 --> 00:50:03,810
with the same thing all over 
that is totally not connected to

910
00:50:03,810 --> 00:50:08,450
what I see is not working, then 
you end up with that conclusion,

911
00:50:08,450 --> 00:50:12,210
right? 
Because it almost feels so. 

912
00:50:12,860 --> 00:50:16,500
Basic I want to say, you know 
like if you observe and you see 

913
00:50:16,500 --> 00:50:18,580
something is going wrong 
especially about the money 

914
00:50:18,580 --> 00:50:20,940
system, right. 
Like the technology we use to 

915
00:50:20,940 --> 00:50:23,420
exchange value with each other 
and make the world a better 

916
00:50:23,420 --> 00:50:24,620
place and our lives. 
Right. 

917
00:50:24,660 --> 00:50:28,540
If you go that way then if you 
hear her talk you think like you

918
00:50:28,540 --> 00:50:33,340
are you are lying you know or or
or you're blind One of the two I

919
00:50:33,340 --> 00:50:36,380
don't know. 
And and but just like even now 

920
00:50:36,380 --> 00:50:39,100
when I say this I know that 
people will think like Oh yeah 

921
00:50:39,100 --> 00:50:41,140
I'll bomb things he knows it all
or something. 

922
00:50:41,140 --> 00:50:43,380
But that is not. 
I don't know. 

923
00:50:43,380 --> 00:50:46,460
I I, I want to share it as like 
an observation, right. 

924
00:50:46,460 --> 00:50:49,180
I don't know if I'm right, but 
that is my observation in a 

925
00:50:49,180 --> 00:50:51,060
sense. 
Does that does that make sense? 

926
00:50:51,060 --> 00:50:52,620
Right. 
Like it's kind of. 

927
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:59,220
Yeah. 
Like I if I, I expect for people

928
00:50:59,220 --> 00:51:05,620
in that position to be smarter 
than me and when I hear them 

929
00:51:05,620 --> 00:51:09,100
talk and not address what I have
found to be wrong in the system 

930
00:51:09,100 --> 00:51:12,710
that they guard. 
Then that is, yeah, that's a 

931
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:15,310
problem also. 
Yeah, I mean the beautiful thing

932
00:51:15,310 --> 00:51:18,550
is we also don't tell anyone you
have to use Bitcoin. 

933
00:51:18,710 --> 00:51:22,670
Like by law you can use Bitcoin 
and Bitcoin has certain rules, 

934
00:51:22,670 --> 00:51:25,790
which you have, which you have 
to obey to if you want to use 

935
00:51:25,790 --> 00:51:29,430
it, otherwise you get wrecked. 
I don't, I don't force anybody 

936
00:51:29,430 --> 00:51:31,470
to do it. 
And I think generally speaking, 

937
00:51:31,790 --> 00:51:35,230
also if you look at Austrian 
economics, the school of thought

938
00:51:35,230 --> 00:51:39,040
that emerged in Austria through 
Carmenga, who in 18, I think it 

939
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:43,440
was in 1871, he wrote Gross sets
of efforts, Witchcraft's Lever, 

940
00:51:43,680 --> 00:51:46,160
which was then translated into 
English as Principles of 

941
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,280
Economics. 
And then Lute von Mises in 1940 

942
00:51:50,280 --> 00:51:54,240
in German and then 1949 and in 
English he wrote Human Action, 

943
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,600
where he basically came up with 
praxeology, which is the science

944
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,400
of human action. 
He at the end of the book, he 

945
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:04,400
says everything I wrote in this 
book might be true, it might be 

946
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,200
wrong. 
It's just an observation. 

947
00:52:06,590 --> 00:52:08,630
It is just an observation. 
That's it. 

948
00:52:09,030 --> 00:52:12,270
And when I talk about Bitcoin, I
observe the state of the world, 

949
00:52:12,670 --> 00:52:16,950
but I leave myself the ability 
to be wrong and I don't force 

950
00:52:16,950 --> 00:52:19,230
everybody to do what I do and 
agree with me. 

951
00:52:19,670 --> 00:52:22,030
I'm just giving a certain 
perspective. 

952
00:52:22,550 --> 00:52:24,510
And I believe that this 
perspective, that's the 

953
00:52:24,510 --> 00:52:28,710
perspectives that you also have,
it's based on mathematics rather

954
00:52:28,710 --> 00:52:32,990
than on Decree of Fiat. 
Yeah. 

955
00:52:33,310 --> 00:52:35,070
And. 
And as your website is called, 

956
00:52:36,150 --> 00:52:38,750
you know, like you would do you 
want to follow rules or do you 

957
00:52:38,750 --> 00:52:43,230
want to follow rulers, Right. 
And in one of my last 

958
00:52:43,230 --> 00:52:46,630
conversations on the podcast, we
agreed that, yeah, 

959
00:52:46,910 --> 00:52:52,350
unfortunately, we can probably 
not trust ourselves as in 

960
00:52:52,350 --> 00:52:55,830
humans, right? 
We we have to force ourselves to

961
00:52:55,830 --> 00:52:59,510
adopt A set of rules that cannot
be changed. 

962
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:05,120
Which will be ultimately 
transparent for forever and that

963
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:10,520
that will actually help us to, 
yeah, create a better system, 

964
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,200
right. 
But but even that is is like a 

965
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:18,160
very big thought, I'd say right 
to accept that that we cannot 

966
00:53:18,160 --> 00:53:21,440
trust ourselves because when we 
talk about someone like Lagarde 

967
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,800
and we say like oh or God 
complex or this or that. 

968
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,560
We also kind of say that, well, 
if I would be in this position, 

969
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,400
that position, I would never 
behave like that, right? 

970
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:34,640
That's also what we're saying, 
which feels nice, but we don't 

971
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:36,280
know if it's true. 
Yeah, right. 

972
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:40,560
That's why I don't want to 
become, for example, when I was 

973
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,320
younger, I was into politics, 
like mainstream politics, 

974
00:53:43,320 --> 00:53:46,600
basically, And over time I 
understood I don't want to be 

975
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,400
part of that system. 
It's also something Jeff Booth 

976
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:53,410
very eloquently and beautifully 
talks about, and that also what 

977
00:53:53,410 --> 00:53:56,850
algorithm is and what Bitcoin 
essentially represents. 

978
00:53:56,850 --> 00:54:01,050
It's if there's a system that is
based on centralized control, 

979
00:54:01,450 --> 00:54:04,010
you can't change the system 
because the system is inherently

980
00:54:04,010 --> 00:54:05,610
broken. 
It's based on theft and 

981
00:54:05,610 --> 00:54:07,730
deception. 
I don't want to be part of that 

982
00:54:07,730 --> 00:54:09,690
system. 
So I want to dedicate all my 

983
00:54:09,690 --> 00:54:12,850
energy, all my focus into 
Bitcoin, this new system where 

984
00:54:12,850 --> 00:54:17,210
everybody can live a life that 
they believe to be a good life. 

985
00:54:21,410 --> 00:54:25,690
Yeah. 
So how do you see Bitcoin in the

986
00:54:25,690 --> 00:54:29,130
next decade? 
Like, is this going to become a 

987
00:54:29,170 --> 00:54:34,130
currency or do you see the store
of value, like really set in 

988
00:54:34,130 --> 00:54:36,090
first? 
Like, what's your idea? 

989
00:54:36,770 --> 00:54:41,090
Yeah, I mean the Vijay Abuja 
party wrote this great piece in 

990
00:54:41,090 --> 00:54:45,250
2018 on Bitcoin becoming money. 
I forgot the name. 

991
00:54:45,690 --> 00:54:47,250
I think it's called the Buddhist
case for Bitcoin. 

992
00:54:47,330 --> 00:54:51,060
Turner two book and he says 
historically also observing what

993
00:54:51,220 --> 00:54:54,380
how money came into existence. 
He said money started as a 

994
00:54:54,380 --> 00:54:58,980
collectible store value, medium 
of exchange or unit of account 

995
00:54:59,540 --> 00:55:01,900
or unit of account and then 
medium of exchange. 

996
00:55:01,900 --> 00:55:04,940
One or the other is 3 and four 
and Bitcoin started as a 

997
00:55:04,940 --> 00:55:07,820
collectible of some sorts in the
cipher punk community. 

998
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:12,260
Then it becomes a star of value 
which we are experiencing right 

999
00:55:12,260 --> 00:55:14,900
now and it's also starting to be
accepted as a medium of 

1000
00:55:14,900 --> 00:55:17,220
exchange. 
Bitcoin is different things for 

1001
00:55:17,220 --> 00:55:19,970
different people. 
For me, it's both a store of 

1002
00:55:19,970 --> 00:55:23,010
value and a medium of exchange 
and a unit of account. 

1003
00:55:23,010 --> 00:55:27,690
Of course, because I use Bitcoin
to store my productivity, I use 

1004
00:55:27,690 --> 00:55:30,290
Bitcoin to make payments 
internationally and in 

1005
00:55:30,290 --> 00:55:32,290
conferences in between my 
Bitcoin friends. 

1006
00:55:32,290 --> 00:55:35,810
So there's the circular Bitcoin 
economies, and I use Bitcoin as 

1007
00:55:35,810 --> 00:55:39,250
my unit of account. 
So everything I do, I measure 

1008
00:55:39,250 --> 00:55:43,250
against Bitcoin. 
If an investment is not able to 

1009
00:55:43,250 --> 00:55:46,970
outperform the deflation of 
Bitcoin, I only do it if I 

1010
00:55:46,970 --> 00:55:51,490
believe it to be a charitable 
action, for example, For me, 

1011
00:55:51,490 --> 00:55:56,610
investing in lightning startups 
is not a decision based on 

1012
00:55:56,730 --> 00:56:00,010
financial gain because I believe
it will be very difficult for a 

1013
00:56:00,010 --> 00:56:03,610
company to outperform the 
deflation of Bitcoin in the next

1014
00:56:03,610 --> 00:56:05,690
decade. 
But I do it to support the 

1015
00:56:05,770 --> 00:56:11,270
ecosystem and what I believe 
what Bitcoin will do, it will it

1016
00:56:11,270 --> 00:56:14,110
will move into becoming a medium
of exchange in the Bitcoin 

1017
00:56:14,110 --> 00:56:17,430
community and all these circular
Bitcoin hubs in the world, South

1018
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:20,830
Africa, South America. 
But by the global financial 

1019
00:56:20,830 --> 00:56:23,510
system, it will be adopted by 
store value. 

1020
00:56:24,190 --> 00:56:26,390
Companies will adopt it on their
balance sheet. 

1021
00:56:26,710 --> 00:56:29,430
ETFs will adopt it. 
You know, maybe there will be 

1022
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:33,630
products where what sailor also 
says bonds and Bitcoin will be 

1023
00:56:33,870 --> 00:56:37,180
sort of merged. 
And then eventually Bitcoin will

1024
00:56:37,220 --> 00:56:41,220
absorb the monetary premium that
all these assets have 

1025
00:56:41,220 --> 00:56:44,340
accumulated under an 
inflationary monetary regime. 

1026
00:56:44,340 --> 00:56:47,820
And over time, Bitcoin become 
this pristine store value where 

1027
00:56:47,820 --> 00:56:51,180
most of the productivity in the 
world most likely will be stored

1028
00:56:51,180 --> 00:56:53,580
in. 
And it will also be the base 

1029
00:56:53,580 --> 00:56:56,500
layer for different currencies 
being issued on Bitcoin. 

1030
00:56:56,780 --> 00:56:58,660
These might be national 
currencies. 

1031
00:56:58,660 --> 00:57:01,860
I can also see central banks and
countries that have a free basic

1032
00:57:01,860 --> 00:57:05,800
order adopting Bitcoin as a 
reserve asset and that will also

1033
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:09,640
be private E cash issued through
example fediment. 

1034
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:14,440
So different communities in the 
world might issue their currency

1035
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:17,720
where currency is a money 
monetary system and Bitcoin is 

1036
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:22,000
the base layer of value within 
the economy that everything is 

1037
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:23,400
based upon. 
Yeah. 

1038
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:28,320
And when you say you know it 
will take back all this monetary

1039
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,920
premium of all these other 
assets that have. 

1040
00:57:31,350 --> 00:57:34,670
Gone up in value, right? 
Like real estate I think is the 

1041
00:57:34,670 --> 00:57:39,230
best example, as in like the 
utility value of a home is not 

1042
00:57:39,230 --> 00:57:41,670
different from 50 years ago, 
right? 

1043
00:57:42,110 --> 00:57:50,230
Does that also imply that these 
assets will return to their 

1044
00:57:50,230 --> 00:57:53,590
actual value, right? 
Like a more representable value 

1045
00:57:53,590 --> 00:57:55,510
in that way? 
I believe so. 

1046
00:57:56,220 --> 00:57:58,860
It's hard to say what the time 
frame will be, but especially 

1047
00:57:58,940 --> 00:58:00,580
housing. 
Bitcoin will make housing 

1048
00:58:00,580 --> 00:58:03,140
affordable again because of what
you mentioned. 

1049
00:58:03,140 --> 00:58:06,620
Bitcoin will most likely absorb 
the monetary premium that real 

1050
00:58:06,620 --> 00:58:09,820
estate is accumulated. 
Plus, owning Bitcoin makes 

1051
00:58:09,820 --> 00:58:12,540
everything cheaper over time. 
Deflation, right? 

1052
00:58:12,820 --> 00:58:15,100
Also construction. 
If you a real estate company and

1053
00:58:15,180 --> 00:58:18,420
if you use Bitcoin to store 
maintenance reserves, you will 

1054
00:58:18,420 --> 00:58:22,500
be able to modernize property in
the future and construction 

1055
00:58:22,500 --> 00:58:25,060
costs might become cheaper if 
you own Bitcoin as well. 

1056
00:58:25,810 --> 00:58:31,130
So I definitely believe that in 
the realm of housing, Bitcoin as

1057
00:58:31,330 --> 00:58:34,330
this ultimate store value, 
absorbing the monetary premium 

1058
00:58:34,330 --> 00:58:37,970
that houses have accumulated 
will make housing affordable. 

1059
00:58:37,970 --> 00:58:40,570
And that in itself is just a 
game changer. 

1060
00:58:40,970 --> 00:58:44,770
And it will also defund the 
state because a lot of people 

1061
00:58:44,810 --> 00:58:48,090
and a lot of corporations, they 
use bonds to store value. 

1062
00:58:48,090 --> 00:58:51,050
So bonds. 
So real estate of course is the 

1063
00:58:51,050 --> 00:58:53,750
number one store value for 
private individuals, but but 

1064
00:58:53,790 --> 00:58:56,590
it's not a good store very for 
corporates because it's not easy

1065
00:58:56,590 --> 00:58:58,750
to liquidate. 
But if you own bonds for 

1066
00:58:58,750 --> 00:59:01,590
example, or short term 
treasuries or money market 

1067
00:59:01,590 --> 00:59:05,150
funds, you'll be able to store 
your value within the field 

1068
00:59:05,150 --> 00:59:08,670
realm effectively And you're 
also to liquidate if you need to

1069
00:59:08,670 --> 00:59:10,110
change something on your balance
sheet. 

1070
00:59:10,750 --> 00:59:15,390
And I believe that people will 
start using Bitcoin to store 

1071
00:59:15,390 --> 00:59:18,350
their productivity and that will
defund the state, which is also 

1072
00:59:18,350 --> 00:59:19,710
very good thing. 
Yeah. 

1073
00:59:20,470 --> 00:59:22,630
All right. 
Last last two questions. 

1074
00:59:23,300 --> 00:59:27,020
What's a common misconception 
about Bitcoin that you wish to 

1075
00:59:27,020 --> 00:59:34,100
debunk? 
I mean, Bitcoin being bad for 

1076
00:59:34,100 --> 00:59:36,220
the environment. 
I think that is something that 

1077
00:59:36,220 --> 00:59:39,860
people already start to realize.
People understand that Bitcoin 

1078
00:59:39,860 --> 00:59:44,660
can serve as this battery that 
we can use to monetize energy 

1079
00:59:44,660 --> 00:59:47,140
much better. 
It will give us the ability to 

1080
00:59:47,140 --> 00:59:50,220
have a certain base load that is
especially important for 

1081
00:59:50,220 --> 00:59:54,450
renewables, so on. 
Bitcoin will also allow 

1082
00:59:54,730 --> 00:59:58,130
microgrids, especially in Africa
where there is no energy 

1083
00:59:58,130 --> 01:00:01,410
network. 
Bitcoin can be used and is used 

1084
01:00:01,730 --> 01:00:05,970
by specific companies to create 
microgrids that bring energy to 

1085
01:00:05,970 --> 01:00:08,130
everybody in the world. 
Because one of the 

1086
01:00:08,130 --> 01:00:11,250
misconceptions that the field 
system has installed in people's

1087
01:00:11,250 --> 01:00:14,970
mind is that the usage of energy
is bad, but actually the usage 

1088
01:00:14,970 --> 01:00:17,770
of energy is very good. 
It's just a question, how do we 

1089
01:00:17,770 --> 01:00:19,970
use energy and what types of 
energy do we use? 

1090
01:00:20,650 --> 01:00:24,050
Good con allows us to monitor, 
monetize energy much better and 

1091
01:00:24,050 --> 01:00:27,090
bring it to people around the 
world and raise the standard of 

1092
01:00:27,090 --> 01:00:29,730
living. 
I give you a very easy example. 

1093
01:00:30,570 --> 01:00:33,090
If you look at countries where 
the standard of living is high, 

1094
01:00:33,090 --> 01:00:38,250
people consume a lot of energy. 
Light heating your house, 

1095
01:00:38,410 --> 01:00:41,050
hospitals and all these types of
things, they consume a lot of 

1096
01:00:41,050 --> 01:00:43,490
energy. 
So that's generally something 

1097
01:00:43,490 --> 01:00:47,530
that I'd like to see the debunk.
That's a myth that I'm kind of 

1098
01:00:47,530 --> 01:00:49,920
sad about, but that is already 
happening. 

1099
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,600
There's already people that 
understand that Bitcoin can help

1100
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,560
bring high standard of living 
and energy to everybody in the 

1101
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,760
world. 
Yeah, well, even if you Google 

1102
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,120
Now how much renewable energy is
powering Bitcoin? 

1103
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:06,680
I think Google says 53% and the 
trend is going up actually, and 

1104
01:01:07,600 --> 01:01:10,760
it seems like the Bitcoin 
industry will be the first 

1105
01:01:10,760 --> 01:01:14,680
carbon negative or negative 
emission. 

1106
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,560
Industry in the world. 
So, yeah, I'm also excited about

1107
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:19,960
that. 
Like for me that's also the 

1108
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,760
biggest one. 
I think obviously it's it's it's

1109
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:30,000
a topic of this time, right. 
So it's just, yeah, one of the 

1110
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,920
default things that that people 
go against. 

1111
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:34,600
So, yeah, I love that you 
mentioned that. 

1112
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:37,680
All right. 
So last question, and I ask 

1113
01:01:37,680 --> 01:01:41,160
everyone the same question, 
What's a core belief you will 

1114
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:44,560
never let go? 
A core belief? 

1115
01:01:45,350 --> 01:01:50,110
Trust my intuition. 
Bitcoin taught me to trust my 

1116
01:01:50,110 --> 01:01:53,350
intuition and I'm very thankful 
for that and I'll continue to do

1117
01:01:53,350 --> 01:01:55,150
so. 
Awesome man. 

1118
01:01:55,150 --> 01:01:57,870
Thanks so much. 
I really enjoyed this 

1119
01:01:58,270 --> 01:02:01,430
conversation. 
Where can people find you on the

1120
01:02:01,550 --> 01:02:03,430
Internet? 
You and your thoughts? 

1121
01:02:04,350 --> 01:02:08,070
Yeah. 
So, Leon Vancom on Twitter. 

1122
01:02:09,070 --> 01:02:12,990
You can subscribe, if you like, 
to my Substack, the Bitcoin 

1123
01:02:12,990 --> 01:02:17,000
newsletter. 
A system of rules.com is the 

1124
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:20,760
name of my website that I use to
sort of list all my 

1125
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:23,560
publications. 
Hopefully build a better website

1126
01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,320
soon and you can find my 
articles in Bitcoin Magazine. 

1127
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:30,680
And if you're a German speaker, 
you can find the translations of

1128
01:02:30,680 --> 01:02:34,080
my articles on 
europeanbitcoiners.com, which is

1129
01:02:34,080 --> 01:02:37,880
a free and open source education
platform that translates text 

1130
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:39,800
from English into all European 
languages. 

1131
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:43,360
I work voluntarily as a 
translator as well, and you can 

1132
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,520
find some of my original 
articles, especially on Bitcoin 

1133
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:49,400
and real estate, also on 
europeanbitcoiners.com. 

1134
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:51,760
Awesome, man. 
Well, thanks again. 

1135
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,160
And I see you in a few weeks in 
Amsterdam, so that's fun. 

1136
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,760
And yeah, let's keep in touch 
and talk soon. 

1137
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:01,320
Looking forward. 
Thank you for inviting me. 

1138
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:03,600
Cheers. 
I hope you enjoyed this episode.

1139
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,600
If you did, it would be amazing 
if you could rate, review and 

1140
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,160
subscribe on the podcast 
platform of your choice. 

1141
01:03:09,590 --> 01:03:12,150
It will help us educate more 
millennials on the importance of

1142
01:03:12,190 --> 01:03:14,190
Bitcoin. 
You can follow and connect with 

1143
01:03:14,190 --> 01:03:15,470
me on Twitter. 
I'm Bramk. 

1144
01:03:15,710 --> 01:03:19,350
That's at Bramk. 
And if you are or know someone 

1145
01:03:19,350 --> 01:03:21,390
who has an interesting 
perspective on Bitcoin that's 

1146
01:03:21,390 --> 01:03:24,350
worth sharing, hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1147
01:03:24,350 --> 01:03:26,270
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1148
01:03:26,270 --> 01:03:27,910
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1149
01:03:28,230 --> 01:03:29,470
Thanks for listening. 
Bye. 

1150
01:03:38,050 --> 01:03:38,290
I'll bet.