The systems that control your mind and your money are
collapsing, and the two most powerful decentralized tools for
sovereignty are fighting back together.
I'm joined again by Tim Saiku to explore why the journey to
financial sovereignty and mental sovereignty are one and the
same. Both Bitcoin and psychedelics
teach you that you must confront the centralized control systems
that govern your mind and your time.
And stick around because we'll show you exactly how the
decentralized properties of Bitcoin mirror the decentralized
characteristics and effects of psychedelics in this wonderful
exploration. I hope you enjoy.
Let's dive in. Tim Saku, welcome back to
Bitcoin for Millennials. Great to be back.
Yeah, I absolutely love that you're here.
Again, we made a podcast before where we talked about how
Bitcoin is an ego test. I, I don't know how many views
that has, but it was really well received.
Like people really enjoyed how you talked me and everyone
listening through that. And today, we're going to take
one step deeper, I think. Exactly.
I think the first, first presentation was titled, You
know why Bitcoin is an ego test before it's an IQ test.
And I try to start to incept the idea from a psychedelic lens
because from my background, psychedelic works with the ego a
lot. And so I was able to tie that
and see that. But yeah, today I'm excited to
go one step deeper and start to see the parallels of
psychedelics and Bitcoin that I've unravelled.
Awesome. Well, I I recently had an
episode with Yoni Appleberg where we also kind of explored
this and we also agreed to do a second episode.
I think that like this combination of subjects is
extremely interesting. I think it's under the under
discussed and well, I hope you can shed some light on, on how
you view it today. And hopefully we can, yeah, tell
more people about this and, and let us know in the comments also
what you think. And yeah, I, I told you before I
glanced over the website, I didn't read it fully because I
just wanted to be surprised. So I'll just give you the floor
and and we kick it off. Awesome.
Yeah, let's dive in. I think firstly I wanted to
share like why this topic? So my background comes from
entrepreneurship but burnt out entrepreneurship and almost
lived a classic archetype where I exited my company.
Felt very lost because my identity was so wrapped up in
that company and actually turned to self development and the
modality of psychedelics to get clear answers within myself.
Long story short, had tons of experiences by myself and in
Group experiences that revealed a lot of the wounds I grew up
with that led me to want to start a company but from a place
of ego, wanting to prove to others and myself to the world.
And that was very enlightening but also very scary because I
was like who am I beyond this company?
And after a lot of experiences now I've been able to understand
who I am beyond that. And went into a career of
psychedelic retreats for the last 6-7 years and where I live
in Costa Rica and worked with a ton of founders, entrepreneurs
who went through very similar identity crisis, for lack of
better word. And I left when I left that
world late last year. I had a bunch of time to explore
and study something. And that's when Bitcoin started
to rise again. And I didn't know what I was
holding and decided to dive deep into the Bitcoin rabbit hole
finally. And what really was fascinating
for me and enlightening was how easy it was for me to understand
it because of my psychedelic background, because of the
experiences I've had with psychedelics, namely working
with my ego or being aware of that.
But one step further, as I kept studying Bitcoin, I was like,
wow, this is so easy for me to understand.
Not because of me able to understand when my egos at play,
but the parallels of 1's journey with psychedelics and their
inner world and one's journey with Bitcoin in their external
world. So I wanted to share some
insights I've gathered. This is a condensed version of a
larger presentation you can find online and you can link it in
the show notes, but I title it The Sacred Parallels of
Psychedelics and Bitcoin. And one just key caveat here is
that I want to remind others that you can always replace in
all of this presentation, the word psychedelics with name,
your word that resonates with you, whether it be
consciousness, whether it be spirituality, whatever that
makes sense for you, you can always replace that.
Because I just see psychedelics as one channel and one vehicle
to understand these greater truths that I've unravelled.
So it starts with this, the fundamental truth.
One big, big thing I realized in my psychedelic experiences is
that no one is coming to save me.
And I had to RIP that off my programming.
And I think that plays really well with this idea of true
freedom beguns the moment you claim full responsibility of our
lives and dare to shatter the illusions that anyone else
controls the keys to our lives. And so no one is coming to save
you. No one owes you a rescue or a
fix. You, and only you can choose to
wake up to that truth, and only when you are ready.
Reality rearranges itself and powerful allies like
psychedelics and Bitcoin appear to help you walk that path
right. So we just stick with this part
here. Psychedelics, I think really
invites the self accountability in each of every one of us to
say, I got to work on myself to change the reality of which I
live in. And if I'm depressed, I get to
work out or take more walks in nature, I get to make that
change versus waiting for someone else to give me
permission to do so. And I think Bitcoin very
similarly from a fundamental truth perspective is no
government or central brink is coming to save me.
I get to be in control of my financial wealth and I got to
take actions by myself to to make that happen.
Getting to that source truth gives you an anchor for for
dealing with the physical reality.
And so I shared this and then I said, well, and, and in Bitcoin,
right, when you think about money, there is no anchor in
Fiat money, right? It's just made-up.
It's dictated for you, right? Your paradigm, your money
paradigm is dictated for you. So there is no anchor for you
there. There's no way to establish
trust other than other people telling you to trust the thing,
right? But in Bitcoin, you can verify
everything for yourself. But the fundamental truth, the
all the data in the time chain, right?
In our blockchain, which is immutable, that is the ultimate
truth, the ultimate engineered fundamental truth of this money
system, which is verifiable for each user, each participant in
this monetary network. So in that way, it serves as
this anchor of conceptually understanding what this money
is, but actually having something that you can not only
verify for yourself, but can always go back to and be like,
yeah, it's still uncorrupted. You know, the integrity is still
upheld. So I can still trust this, this
money. And so I, I love that you
started with this because this was the exact conversation that
I, that I had. But yeah, I, I, it's interesting
that there's many layers where you can talk about this
fundamental truth. Yeah.
The only thing I'll add to that is I've been realizing, I've
been noticing myself explaining Bitcoin as an ideology of truth
before it's a monetary network. And I think Bitcoin, I mean
psychedelics, is a pursuit of truth for oneself.
Like everybody who I've worked with, who said I want to, you
know, find myself, I want to know who I am.
It's a pursuit of truth. And I think both represent
capital T truth in its own unique ways, one with a monetary
network afterwards and one with their inner world of self.
Yep. Yeah, awesome.
All right, moving on something I I didn't, even though both
technologies feel very different, both offer pathways
to sovereignty, right? Bitcoin empowers individuals
with financial sovereignty and psychedelics facilitate
spiritual sovereignty. And all of these are kind of
crossing through this thread of personal transformation and
that's why I see them coming together so well together.
Engagement. Bitcoin often requires deep
research, self education and commitment to long term
thinking, while psychedelic experiences, when approached
with intention and integration, can lead to profound self
discovery, healing and growth. And so even though these two
seem very far off, where they collide is in this pathway to
sovereignty, and both require their own unique ways of proof
of work to receive what 1 is seeking.
How would you describe that in the in the in the spiritual
sense achieving this autonomy? What?
What does that mean? Yeah, I think when I've seen my
own experiences and people's experiences go through deep
journeys, whether it's healing deep trauma or remembering
something that they've totally forgotten, once they remember.
And I think the keyword for me a lot of times is remember.
Remember the truths, remember what happened.
It liberates a lot of the perhaps old stories or current
stories they perpetuate in their minds that liberates themselves
from a trap story that they've been living in for so long.
So I think in relation to psychedelics and a spiritual
sovereignty, remembering and things might remember as simple
as like old past traumas of something happening that has LED
one to be who they are today. Getting back to that anchor of
what that core memory was starts to liberate themselves from
confusion and the pursuits of greater freedom of different
stories and new realities they can create for themselves.
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Would you say that's also like the the shared antagonist that
that they both battle like this certain centralized control over
something that you think you should follow but you're not?
I mean. You'll still survive if you
don't. The Bitcoin equivalent of
central banks is the psychedelic equivalent of like church and
religion or organized church and religion.
So that's what I see it as. Yeah, I I would more say, I
would say more like like just people that totally are are not
spiritual or just the basic matrix paradigm you grow up in
where again I think this outsourcing, outsourcing is a
word that comes. I think the keyword is
outsourcing and I think the opposite side of that spectrum
is like radical self responsibility, self
accountability, self action. Consciously, right?
Like knowingly, consciously doing that, doing that.
Absolutely. So as I was doing research into
these parallels, I found something really unique in that
there's this direct link of mental health and financial debt
in the same summer of 1971 when Nixon took the dollar off the
gold standard. As we know, that was in August
15th, 1971. And just two months earlier,
Nixon declared the war on drugs, which was the infamous war on
psychedelics during that year. And So what I found was really
interesting the same summer of 1971 wrote one signature severed
the mines for medicine and money from metal or gold, changing
both inner and outer freedoms for generations, right.
So this great quote I found as well classifying psychedelics as
schedule one drugs severed the connection between people and
their intuition. And when the US came out the
gold standard, it severed the link between money and energy.
It is my belief that these things cannot be kept separate
from this guy named Max Mannheimer.
So I just found it in that same time frame, and whether it's
consciously or all planned, it happened all in that same period
of time. Feels like it's just a moment
in, in like the, the, the pendulum swing, right?
Where these where these things are supposed to happen together
or something, right? Who was Max Mannheimer?
You know that. No, I just saw he he also
understood this parallel and and wrote some posts about this
intersection. Fascinating.
I didn't notice actually that this that this was at the same
time. Yeah, it makes sense.
All right, so I have about a few, I have about like 10 or 12
of these that I'm just going to go through with you and feel
free to reflect on. These were the the ones that I
felt like were most easy to comprehend.
There's more in the full presentation if you, if anybody
wants to dive deeper into that. But the first sacred parallel I
call is only when you are ready. What I mean by that is
psychedelics or plant medicine finds you only when you're ready
to meet yourself. And Bitcoin clicks only when
your old store and illusion starts to crack.
And this idea in psychedelics is, you know, my, my, my
perspective is I never try to convince anybody or sell anybody
on anything. And people will always say I
felt called to psychedelics. And I think there's a very
similar perspective with Bitcoin.
And you know, Sailor even says it's like we only understand
Bitcoin as a need to know basis or in other words, when we are
feeling something in a pain that brings us to that.
And with psychedelics, it's usually lost of self, big
transit, transitory period, maybe divorce or, you know,
shutting down a company. We feel some sort of pain.
We want clarity and that's where we seek psychedelics.
Same thing with Bitcoin. Something isn't adding up with
our money system or my own wealth and we feel that pain and
we turn to something like Bitcoin.
So it really starts to find us only when we are ready.
Personally, I have this belief of lifetimes or past lives and
future lives and sometimes I say to people like some people are
just aren't ready or their karmic relationship with
psychedelics or Bitcoin isn't for this lifetime.
And that gives me a lot of compassion for them as well.
All right. The next one is the courageous
entry. And psychedelics asks us to
surrender everything we knew about ourselves when we go in.
And I've seen, I've heard so many stories of people
absolutely freaked out when they come to this through these kinds
of experiences. And Bitcoin asks you to
surrender everything you knew of money, right.
Bitcoin is not or both are not for the faint of heart.
And that's the joke I always have with people when they
finish a psychedelic experience. I was like you now understand
it's not for the faint of heart. And I think there's very similar
with Bitcoin because it challenges everything we
understand of our reality, both from our inner selves with
psychedelics and with the monetary system with with
Bitcoin. And Saylor quotes this as well
like or teal as well. You know, there are more
geniuses and there are courageous people, something
like that. I butchered it.
But the idea of how much courage is required to enter into these
technologies because I think in the fundamental layer these are
paradigm shifting technologies. So it requires courage.
Next I found another parallel called earning the initiation.
So what I mean by this is in psychedelics it always has to be
really an invitation, not a prescription.
If I or anybody try to sell you on experiencing something like
psychedelics, it's short circuits the inner authority
that the medicine reveals. And what I mean by that is it's
very easy to point the finger at someone else and blame and
outsource the blame on someone else.
If one had a very tough experience with psychedelics,
which is very common as well. And and Bitcoin, I say it's a
protocol, not a promise. It's a it's if someone pushes
you to buy, you inherit the conviction instead of forging
your own through study, right? So if I just told someone to buy
Bitcoin in the inevitable crashes or volatility, they sell
because they they don't understand it.
And this whole concept of conviction cannot be borrowed.
So like we talked about in the beginning and you brought up the
word both teach freedom cannot be outsourced.
It's earned through these self initiations.
And so I think earning through the earning that through
experiencing it, proof of work is another parallel I found
here. Yeah, Yeah, it's like this.
I say there's a lot with regard to the conviction on Bitcoin.
It's you have to answer the question every day.
Can I still trust my own judgement?
Can I still trust the way that I'm looking at the world of
money and finance and economics and still be content and sure of
the conviction that I created on Bitcoin?
And I think it's the same, yeah, in psychedelics, Like, OK, I
see, I see this reality now different, right?
Like I know I'm not my body or my thoughts or whatever you've
you've learned. And every time you get
confronted with the other side of that, like not not feeling
centered, right, or really falling into your emotions
again, or whatever your triggers are, that's the same moment.
It's like, OK, but I had this other.
I learned about this other way too few and also experience the
reality. Is that still the thing that I
should follow or should I, you know, keep falling in this black
hall of emotions or or whatever? Yeah, I love that.
Yeah. And that is taking real
ownership also, right? Like that is being aware.
I think that's the consciousness part also.
It's just really being aware of what is happening and that
you're doubting yourself maybe or, you know, questioning
whether you understand something enough or, or have processed
something enough. So it's really taking the the
conscious ownership instead of again, that outsourcing is
usually unconscious and, you know, people just do it without,
without thinking. Yeah.
Yeah, the words centering and meditation come up a lot when
you brought up that point of when the hurricane arises in our
in our inner world. I tend to go out of Nature
Center myself, close my eyes, TuneIn, and just be discerning
of what is true for me and make those choices from there.
So I really appreciate you bringing that up as well.
All right, the next parallel I found was what I titled
dismantling blind faith, and it kind of goes a little bit beyond
what we just talked about. Psychedelic cuts out the middle
men of belief systems or maybe church religion systems that
were just being told what to believe in.
Reality is validated through the direct felt sense of our own
consciousness, not through a priest, therapist or doctrine.
And Bitcoin cuts out the middle man of money value secured by
transparent code and global consensus is not a bank,
politician or decree. And so both shift you from
because they said so to because I can see, verify and feel it
for myself. Trust is no longer loaned to
institutions. It's reclaimed as a direct
knowing. And I think from my own
experience, psychedelics, once one goes through that kind of
experience, like once you feel it like it's very difficult to
say that's not true because you've been through the the
depth of it. And I think same thing when it
when interacting with Bitcoin and you feel the becoming your
own bank as an example and cutting out the middleman.
It's very difficult to put into words, but it's a it's a very
powerful sense of feeling. How would this other person know
what's better for me than me? Why?
Like what is the reasoning? Right?
So you don't even have to go that philosophical or something.
It's literally what you just said, like, why, why, Why would
I do that? And maybe if they're not at my
level, would I be OK with outsourcing this, right.
And I think if you just think through it like that, you
already get to this point where you could feel uncomfortable
because you're going to realize that you have to take a, a
decision whether you want to outsource that that or not.
There's a, there's a great quote meme in the psychedelic space,
which is like which said all politicians should drink
ayahuasca at least 12 times before taking office.
And while that sounds intense, I I would say there's truth in
there because it's, it, it's signals even the proof of work
analogy here of, of understanding oneself,
understanding where decisions are being made from, understand
how decisions can cascade into traumatic experiences for other
people as well. So all right, next one is I call
it the pills of perception. And I think there's there's ways
to kind of name this differently.
But I just saw that psychedelics or the red pill, even though
it's being used in many different ways right now, does
generally represent one concept of psychedelics where it slips
you beyond the emotional spiritual matrix.
You start to realize that your own thoughts, feelings and
patterns in a whole new way. I think of the Matrix movie as
the perfect example of that or the blue pills to go fall asleep
or as the red pills to go find truth.
And I usually like to say the Matrix is just a documentary,
not a not a fictional movie. And Bitcoin is the orange pill
as we all use, right? And exiting the monetary matrix,
we start to see how money actually works beyond the banks
and what governments tell us. So I just thought it was a fun
little way to think about this, this concept of a red pill and
an orange pill. These, it's almost like they're
invite, they're given to each of us.
And we, by our choice, like you had mentioned, get to take it.
And once we do, which requires courage, reality starts to
completely dismantle. Or at least our old reality
starts to dismantle and a new reality gets to be
reconstructed. How, how does that go for you?
Because I think this is actually the thing that a lot of people
struggle with, because once you see it like you, you are forced
to make that conscious decision right there.
This is like the the biggest tension point I would say.
In all of my previous psychedelic retreats we were
hosting, the the first quote we would introduce everybody to is
everything you are looking for is on the other side of fear.
I didn't, I didn't write that and someone else, I forgot the
name of it, but there's a lot of truth in that and I apply.
Then the next quote of how we do one thing is how we do
everything. So if we're afraid of something
right now in our relationships, that same fear is perpetuating
probably in many other aspects of our lives, in our health
pillars and in our family pillars, etcetera, etcetera.
So compare the great quote of what what you resist persists.
So we encouraged a lot of the folks who were going through
these deep experiences in psychedelics to lean into the
fear and understand that it's just a concept that perhaps was
formed unconsciously at a young age because of some sort of
abandonment or some sort of experience that allowed the ego
to say resisting and avoiding it was the form of survival to
avoid that, right? But now that we're older, more
mature, and perhaps more courageous to explore, leaning
into that fear is usually the gateway to getting to everything
that one is looking for. Do you have this is like the,
the the the meme translation is not your keys, not your coins,
right? It's just like this is what you
need to do to have the full experience, right?
You can, you can still outsource, you know, custody,
which I think is OK. You know, everyone has different
ways to approach this. Some people are 100% self
custody, others do 505082 and whatever.
So I think it's great that there's like different tastes of
that. As long as you make the
conscious decision and understand what the what the
trade-offs are for you, right? Like for you, it could be
different than for me, but just making those decisions is all
already part of this radical personal responsibility, I would
say, right. Just the, the, the fact that you
are actually consciously making the decision and that you know,
with every decision there is this trade off that I am fully
responsible for. Do you have any practical advice
that, that, that you gained on this that you think would be
helpful for for people to kind of go through this fear or
anxiety or maybe analysis paralysis, right?
That they don't really know what to do?
Like, I just wonder what that is for you because I've experienced
like it comes back from time to time, right?
Like, and, and I think that's the whole point is that you keep
on being aware of what you're doing and reassuring if you're
still doing it, right. And if not you, you change
course of course. Yeah.
The first thing that comes up is the protocol and methodology we
have for our retreats, which was naming the fear.
So it can sound very simple, but maybe not easy for a lot of
people as well. I'll give an example that's true
for me in this moment of time. I fear the concept of divorce
because I grew up in 3 generations of divorce.
So I fear committing to a marriage because I fear
perpetuating that same pattern of divorcing in my family name,
which is a commitment I'm trying to break.
So I give that example, but you know, very practically naming
that fear and getting to the truth of what that fear actually
is. And then perhaps vocalizing that
either in your own spiritual practice, whatever that may be,
so that you can see what arises there, or to others who you
absolutely trust to start to dismantle the story that is
probably formulating that may probably be false because it's
built on fear. Next is seeing the Matrix code.
So I said psychedelics brings your unconscious patterns,
social conditioning and ancestral trauma, things that
normally operate invisibly now into plain sight.
And we see this with Bitcoin memes as well, illuminates the
invisible rules of money creation and debt that controls
us, that no one taught us what's happening.
So once again, we start to dive deeper into this experience,
have the courage and the decision to dive into it.
Then my, what usually happens is we start to see truth in so many
different ways that we start to see what I call the matrix code
psychedelics with how we've been operating and perhaps how
systems are in, in everyday life and Bitcoin with the monetary
network. Here's an analogy I used to give
with people when they were exploring psychedelics maybe
versus meditation. Psychedelics is kind of like a
highway, right? You're driving through the
highway, you're zooming past things and the Pro is that you
get to perhaps quote the truth faster.
The con is that you miss a lot of what's passed by you as you
were driving to the destination. Whereas meditation or you're
saying with Bitcoin is it's slower steps.
The Pro is that you get to see everything slow at your pace,
steady. The challenge is it takes longer
period of time. So I think good or bad, they
just have their pros and cons and maybe you can merge them
together to balance that out together.
The next one I call is egoless technologies.
And I use this word particularly egoless because it's just how I
resonate and and see it. I see psychedelics as completely
egoless. There's no ruler that owns this
and can program it in any way. It's a it's AI say, especially
with psychedelics that are birth from the earth, like psilocybin
mushrooms or peyote cactuses and others, they're birth from the
earth. So it's it's ego, this it's it's
it's nature burst into into these into these medicines.
And Bitcoin is self governing code, right?
There's rules without rulers, value without CEOs, consensus
without coercion. So both operate free of ego,
acting as pristine mirrors, not masters.
So the only authority you meet is your own.
And I think that's what's so difficult but also so beautiful,
where because they're egoless, there's no governing body.
There's no you should do it this way.
Each individual is asked to experience it, meet it, and
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unknown and there are no, no known behind that.
Like, are you OK with that and the level of courageousness
needed? I think it's just subjective.
Whatever. Whatever the word means, Yeah.
Yeah. And one thing I'll add here,
this concept has acted as a first principles thinking for me
in many different times. I think of this one applied in
psychedelics like, and there's nothing against like human
created medications. I just question the intentions
behind it, what went into that, why it was created.
You know, psychedelics is a war on pharmaceuticals a lot of
times. And I think psychedelics
represents that egoless nature free of corruption because it is
birthed from that natural, natural world.
And I think the same thing with Bitcoin versus crypto.
I, I anchor into this first principle thinking of is it ego
lists, which means there's no rules.
I mean, sorry, there's no rulers and no, no human ego temptations
that can manipulate it. And so this one has been such a
powerful first principles for me, both in the psychedelic
space with medicine and with Bitcoin and other monetary
systems. Would you say the ego part is
also maybe then the purity part or what I mentioned with purity,
it's like the the protocol of Bitcoin is for anyone to adopt
in a sense that like you said, there's there's nothing behind
it any anymore, right? And I think that's also the
magic of Satoshi walking away. It's a very important, it's a
very important part of, of Bitcoin, but it's that it's
like, it's like you see something on the ground that you
can pick up and then make useful by yourself instead of someone
that is promoting something to you, right?
Like having a sign on the street, like use this thing.
I think that's that's a big difference, yeah.
Agreed. Another parallel I found was the
root question, right? Psychedelics invites the inquiry
of who am I really beneath every story?
And I use that very particularly because a lot of our reality is
just simply share shaped by the stories we tell ourselves.
And Bitcoin challenges us to ask ourselves what is money really
at its core? And so I really like this idea
of like how do we get to the root, root, root cause or root
question that has so many corollary or ripple effects from
that core question. And so, yeah, I really love that
it come back to the root question.
Psychedelics, who am I really? And Bitcoin, What is money,
really? Yeah, awesome, Funny, funny how
some of these things, or well, both of these things I would
say, are so fundamental to everything we do every day.
And, and, and you, we don't really ask them until we're
forced to. I think first, again, that's why
I also think it's hard to get Bitcoin.
It's just like, yeah, if, if, if you don't really experience the
problem, why would you be actively looking for the
possibility of you actually having having a problem, right?
Like it's nonsensical. So, so there's no real incentive
for needs or desire to find that out for most people, especially
if you live in a country where money just works, right?
So it's not really, it's not really a necessity, but it's, it
is things like, you know, seeing people rob banks in Lebanon, not
to get other people's money, but their own money that really woke
me up along the way where I was like, OK, that is pretty insane.
It's insane that that actually exists in a similar money system
as the money system that I'm forced to use.
There's, there's not really much difference other than my Fiat
coin is more valuable than, than their Fiat coin.
And that was basically it. When I had that thought, I just
continued to do whatever I was doing right.
And I think that is what you're also showing here is like really
get to that root and, and, and spending more time and energy on
it to truly understand it. And again, I think also become
comfortable with the fact that you had no clue before.
I think it's also a big part of this entire journey is that you
are OK with the not knowing, the not knowing before until you're
you're here, where you're at now.
Yeah. Yeah, I must envision that these
root questions are like doors that you're willing to open, and
once you open, there's a deep rabbit hole on the other side of
that door as you step through. Like an instant Cliff.
Exactly instant Cliff and to to carry that forward.
The next one I was wanted to share was called heal the root,
not the symptoms. So especially in the psychedelic
space, we talk a lot about the traumas and all these things
that people go through that how do we address the root cause of
that, Right. And so the the result of that is
a great quote in the psychedelic space, which is when you heal
yourself, you heal the world and it's really starting to
understand ourselves and how we relate to others that cascades
into that effect. And I still am a big believer in
that fundamental foundation. And Bitcoin very similarly on
the other side is when you fix the money, you fix the world,
but changing the incentives, steering markets, politics and
culture. So I just found that, yeah, what
I find so fascinating is that these both are really trying to
change like the this like or question the deep rooted
foundation of of things that can cascade into so many, so many
beautiful perspectives afterwards.
What would you think about this? But like all the traumas, all
the things like it's all, it's all from the past that it
literally doesn't exist anymore. It's just that you are still
paying attention and giving it energy that it's like accessible
for you at the moments that it triggers you.
And that is what's blocking you from fully living in the now,
right. And I well, back to the money,
same thing. It's like, how do you how do you
live in the now if you're forced to constantly worry about the
future because your money is losing value, Right?
Like, yeah, pretty wild if you think about it.
I mean, This is why I call a Fiat money is a spiritual crime.
I'd like forced use of Fiat money is spiritual crime.
It, it, it, it's, it makes sure you don't have the time and
space to actually go on that inner journey and fix these
other things that are also very hard to combat, right?
Yeah. And I love that you brought up
just like the opportunity to make that change today and now
with Bitcoin, transitioning our money into Bitcoin and within
psychedelics or spirituality, making different choices that
affect our children and the next generation as well.
The next one is expanding time horizon.
So I believe healing is is a lifelong journey.
It's it's never just a a silver bullet as some people may
misconstrue it as. So psychedelics reveals a long
arc of healing. It's a lifelong journey.
No quick fixes. And same thing with Bitcoin
rewards patients for playing the long term game with the
inevitability of its price despite volatility.
So both reorient are technologies that help reorient
short term dopamine to long term wisdom thinking in decades.
Not moments. So I'm just thinking about like,
how is that on the spiritual side?
How is it It's like what I said, like you could have this, I
don't know, super spiritual, mystical, out of body, whatever
ego death experience. And then three days later you're
cursing at a person in traffic, right?
Like you're totally back in that.
And yeah, that's kind of what I'm thinking about.
So what's like the huddling equivalent of of that?
Then what's coming up is one of the most difficult things that
happened in after psychedelic experiences is forgetting.
So with the equivalence of the metaphor of huddling Bitcoin,
it's like huddling the truth, the vision, the experience and
that requires its own unique sense of proof of work by the
keyword is integrating in the psychedelic space but more
particularly what are the new agreements I make with myself?
What are the new actions I'm committing to have in my life
and practice that almost as rituals so that I can keep
holding on to that truth that I experienced?
So that's the closest metaphor I see of huddling Bitcoin as the
coins, but huddling the memory of that so that we don't forget.
Yeah, love that. Awesome.
All right, next one. I call these technologies
borderless and timeless. So psychedelics originates as
ancient medicines evolved into universal sacraments across all
cultures for thousands of years and beyond no single tribe or
doctrine claims them. I just find that so fascinating.
There's a whole rabbit hole there.
And Bitcoin, digital money that moves anywhere.
The Internet reaches no borders. Gatekeepers, transcends
governments and generations to come.
So both operate beyond politics, beyond passports, and beyond the
passage of time. They represent technologies that
represent all people, belonging to all people, accessible in
every era for eternity. And whether Bitcoin works or
not. My point is like the technology
is accessible across borders and across time, which I find so
fascinating. When you, when you think about
this, like some people say like, oh, Bitcoin is a, is a divine
gift. It's a gift, right?
It's given literally it's given, it's given to us as the solution
for money. How I mean, it sounds probably
woo woo to some people, but like, how do you think through
the fact that there are so many similarities with, in this
context, Bitcoin and psychedelics?
But also, you know, the I listen, I listen to like quantum
mechanics podcasts that talk about, you know, how high
entropy is turned into low entry, like high entropy is in
the energy or the consciousness turned into low entropy, you
know, being, being the things in this reality.
And then I'm thinking like, whoa, there's, there's so many
similarities with Bitcoin. So my question is like how, how
do how do you think about Bitcoin in that context?
Like do you also think it's a gift?
Is it, is it just coincidence that there's so many parallels
or is that is that actually something that like bolsters
your conviction or like your interest or fascination with
with with this, right? For me, it's quite stunning.
Even the power law thing, right? It's, it's similar.
It's like, oh, it also has a power law.
Well, it actually has like 7 power laws, right?
Like cash rate, price and all these things.
And I'm like man, really? How, how you know it?
It seems less and less like a random.
Thing so the way I'll respond is I'm I'm I'm reminded that humans
and myself are meaning making machines, but to go one step
further on that in a lot of my psychedelic experiences, I've
come to this truth and understanding that what we
believe becomes our reality. So we might as well have like
beautiful beliefs to have a beautiful reality.
Obviously caveat is like still keep it tethered to reality and
grounded. So my, my perspective is sure,
these could be all coincidences or absolute divine, you know,
creation. What kind of reality in life
would I like to be in? One that believes in magic, one
that believes in divine guidance and order and all these
different things that brings so much hope to my life.
I'd rather do that. I'd rather be in that
perspective than something that's super somber or, you
know, pessimistic that drags down my reality, drags down my
life quality of life, drag down others in my in my surrounding
communities as well. So that's, that's what comes up
as like if what we think creates our reality, might as well make
it a good one. All right, I want to close with
two more. I'm very quickly.
First one is honoring the sleeping baby.
One of the greatest reminders I was given in my in my
experiences with psychedelics was when we are awakened with
psychedelics and we want to run back to the world and scream and
say you got to take psychedelics.
One of my teachers once said, remember them as a sleeping
baby. And when you walk into a room of
a sleeping baby, what do you do? You tiptoe around them.
You don't just forcibly wake them up and, and, and, and then
start to cry. And it stuck with me because I
think there's some, there's a beautiful parallel here with
both psychedelics and Bitcoin, right?
So we're psychedelics. A journey must be an invitation,
a personal calling, not an push. Otherwise the struggle gets
blamed on us who try to do that. And we robbed them from
experiencing one of life's magical gifts when they come to
their own realization of their own awakening and their journey
and think same thing with Bitcoin.
We try to shove someone down to the the Bitcoin rabbit hole.
I think they they any form of volatility starts to create that
anger and resentment back. And so both respect free will as
sacred growth is self timed for themselves.
Awakening cannot be coerced to let each soul wake up when it's
ready, both with psychedelics and with Bitcoin.
Yeah, it's, uh, it's, it's, it's what we're saying, right?
When people say, oh, Bitcoin is a cult, I always say, well, if
Bitcoin was a cult, it would be the only one in the world where
members would tell other members to please not listen to them and
think for themselves, right? I think that's kind of what
we're talking about here. Like you cannot, it's like you
cannot make someone fall in love with you or whatever like that,
that that wouldn't give you a good relationship.
And I think is similar, is similar with this, right?
Just a full, full conscious decision by yourself and, and no
one can force you. As opposed to Fiat money again,
right, Because you're using that because other people tell you
to. Beautiful.
The last one I just wanted to share.
And again, there's a whole presentation of this.
You guys want to dive into all the other ones is and I end with
this particularly called the stewards of the next 7
generations. So in psychedelics and a lot of
my own experiences and hearing so many others and and in like,
you know, sacred text messages and like scriptures or or or
philosophies has been passed down.
They say psychedelics gives us the courage to face the pain of
our ancestors couldn't cuts the chain of inherited trauma and
gives the descendants a new story written with conscious
choice instead of unconscious programming.
So this idea that in psychedelics, when we, when we
start to awaken to truths that we've forgotten, not only does
it give the opportunity to what's called heal the next 7
generations, which is who you choose to be and the new actions
you get to create influences your babies and your
grandchildren and your grandchildren's grandchildren's,
etcetera, etcetera. But it also is an opportunity to
heal the previous seven generations, to stop the passing
down of a lineage of patterns that may not have been fully
aligned, whether that was unconscious or or subconscious.
So I think there's something really beautiful of what is this
all for, right? So psychedelics is healing the
next 7 generations, but also the past 7 generations.
And then when I take that same analogy into Bitcoin, it allows
us to store our time and energy in a monetary form that
preserves generational wealth. And we hear the meme in enough
to retire bloodlines immune to decay, entropy and manipulation.
And I think there's something really beautiful for if I take
that same analogy of how do I set my children up for the next
generation, but their grandchildren's grandchildren's
grandchildren. And it can start with me
changing that pattern. And when I do that it, it heals
this previous seven generations of perhaps family members that
didn't know anything about money, that just lived with the
programming of it and just continue to perpetuate the
scarcity mindset that was passed down over and over.
So I just think there's something really beautiful.
What is this all for? And it's really setting up the
next 7 generations, but also honoring and healing the
previous 7 generations. And I think both of these
technologies do it in its own beautiful ways.
Yeah. And again, you, you can be the
person to do that. I think that's also really cool,
right? Like you, you, you get to break
that, that chain basically. I think that is very, very cool.
Awesome. So that's it for the parallels
and I wanted to see if you wanted to share what we're Co
creating for next year as well. Yeah.
So as you may have noticed, Tim and I kind of found each other
on the these topics. And like we also said, we, we've
recorded a previous podcast, which I think people will also
enjoy. And so we, yes, started talking
about what, what could we do with this?
And then I shared and I'm pulling up the screen, I shared
an idea I had for creating, I don't know, a psychedelic.
We, well, we use the word retreat, but I don't like the
word retreat. So now we say gathering, right?
But yeah, our idea is well, so I shared about this and Tim got in
touch and he said, well, this is something that me and Madeline,
who you've also worked with, could organize.
Why not work together? So that's what we're doing.
So in the summer of 2026, we're going to holds the first ever
Bitcoin psychedelic gathering with 25 bitcoiners for a few
days at a location that's TBD, where mushrooms are legal.
Yeah, we're going to organize this this gathering.
You can check out information on going beyondbitcoin.com And our
goal is to have like a not-for-profit event.
So we aim at pricing everything at, at cost and eventually,
yeah, we want to create this, this psychedelic immersion, uh,
with workshops, talks, a ceremony to get a reflection
together. And uh, yeah, we're trying to
set that up tomorrow. Umm, we'll have our first intro
intro call with people that applied.
So yeah, if this is something that resonates with you, then we
invite you to go to the website and apply and maybe we'll see
you there. And also when we're looking at
the, when we are seeing the interest, I I can imagine we're
probably going to do more, but somewhere next year is the, is
the kickoff. Yeah.
And the only thing I'll add here
is that, you know, for me, I come from that retreat,
psychedelic retreat world. A lot of the times it's really
trying to dive deeper beyond, in this case with Bitcoin beyond
the price action. So how can we apply Bitcoin
ethos and principles and psychedelic principles that
we've learned in our experiences into other facets of our lives,
right. How we do one thing is how we do
everything. So now that we've understood
Bitcoin, how do we apply those ethos and principles and lens
into relation our relationships, our family, our, our, our, our
spirituality pillar, our health pillar as well.
So these are for Bitcoiners, buy Bitcoiners to look beyond
Bitcoin. And that's why it's called going
beyond Bitcoin and be able to start to seek these other, this
lens into other facets of our lives.
And so, yeah, if you feel called, we'll be there and
organizing this and looking forward to meeting you if you do
come. Yeah, and we'll put the link in
the in the description. I have one more question for you
to to wrap it up. Of course, usually I ask
everyone the same question, but you already answered that in the
in the previous episode. So for this conversation, I was
thinking, you know, if these two movements keep on colliding as
we are kind of seeing also with the interest on this event.
And like I told you, I ran into other people that are also
thinking about organizing similar events.
If these two movements really are part of this bigger
renaissance, and we achieve both individual mental freedom and
financial sovereignty through Bitcoin, what does the world
then look like? What is hyper bitcoinization of
of the mind like? What is your idea of that of
that future? Thank you.
All right. I see families spending more
time together and enjoying their days because they don't need to,
their money is fixed and they remember the importance of
relationships. I see entrepreneurs solving the
next set of challenges that emerge for our world because
they can pursue meaningful ideas that that go beyond just
themselves and their own self-interest for for personal
growth needs because the money system is is is fixed in that
regards to I see a lot more collaboration, especially in the
political landscape where assuming politicians in power go
through the initiation of actually, whether it's
psychedelics or self discovery. Yeah dismantle this idea that
separation is, is true. The separation is the illusion
of of of of connectedness. So let's say, and even in the
Bitcoin space, I just see people coming together much more with
greater empathy and compassion instead of massive divisiveness
because I think they they can empathize with where people come
from much more. So that's a vision I see in very
different aspects of of of life. Awesome.
Well, thanks for sharing. Thanks for going through this.
I, I hope people find this insightful and it's good to talk
to you again and stay in touch and I'm excited for next year.
So thanks man. Appreciate it.
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