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All right, hey there, this is 
Palm Constant and you're 

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listening to Bitcoin for 
Millennials. 

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With my guests on this podcast, 
I go on a journey to discover 

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how our current financial system
works, why it's flawed, and why 

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Bitcoin is the most relevant 
technological discovery you 

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should understand and adopt. 
In this episode, I'm joined by 

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my anonymous friend Lau. 
He's been a small business owner

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since he started working and has
always been interested in 

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getting the best value for his 
time with the least compromise. 

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After he managed to own his own 
time, he started dedicating it 

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to studying Bitcoin socialism 
and Austrian economics to try 

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and understand where we all 
might be going in the future. 

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I've already had many wonderful 
conversations with him in real 

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life and I'm happy to welcome 
him finally, I might say on the 

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podcast. 
So welcome now. 

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Thank you, Brum. 
We're here, yeah. 

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We start. 
We start in Dutch. 

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Well, yeah, like I said, I think
we had lots of nice 

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conversations. 
We we knew each other a bit from

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the Internet and then we met in 
real life. 

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And I think, I don't know, first
time we met, we talked for three

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hours for something about every 
everything I might say. 

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So I'm super excited to to jump 
in. 

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You sent me some thoughts and 
statements before a recording 

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about the economy, philosophy, 
your insights in life and 

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Bitcoin. 
So I'd love to just go through 

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them together in this episode. 
And I wanted to start with what 

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your definition is of a paradigm
and why you believe they are 

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essential for exploring ideas 
despite some of them not being 

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true, right. 
I think that's a big thing in 

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Bitcoin is I think you can 
factually learn how Bitcoin 

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works. 
That is all out there, all that 

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information is out there. 
But actually switching the 

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paradigm that you adhere to 
consciously or unconsciously, 

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like that's the biggest 
challenge for people. 

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So I'd love to hear your 
thoughts on that. 

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I think a paradigm is a 
structure that we can use in 

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different ways. 
I think we can use it to 

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understand a certain situation 
and how it develops. 

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And it is, I think, essential to
understanding certain certain 

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situations in life and how they 
relate to one another. 

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And I see it as a, as a as a 
framework and a construct that 

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we are capable of creating. 
That doesn't necessarily need to

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be true. 
That we can use as a tool for 

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reaching ideas and insights that
are helpful for for discovering 

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truth, discovering how things 
could be. 

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And sometimes you just need to 
sidestep truth to see what isn't

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true so that you can determine 
where to go with your mind. 

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And I think a paradigm is very 
helpful in this in this sense. 

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But you would agree that they 
are all created, right? 

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Yes. 
I actually wanted to ask what is

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truth, right? 
What is? 

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How do we know what is true? 
Isn't that always? 

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Well. 
Subjective in a sense. 

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Not necessarily if. 
Well, yeah, it it it depends on 

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what you start, what you start 
with as the the basis of what 

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what we are as as as humans and 
what what knowledge really is. 

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Where. 
We can go very deep and 

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philosophical into whether a 
thought or an idea really exists

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if if humans don't exist. 
But given the situation that 

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we're already talking to each 
other, I think it's safe to 

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assume that that thought is not 
necessary for discovering 

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knowledge, discovering 
understanding. 

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And yeah, so a paradigm is a 
construct. 

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It's it's it's a a framework 
that is designed by by people by

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thinking about thinking. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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So but the danger there is that.
That or danger? 

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Well, yeah, maybe you call it 
the danger, but that a paradigm 

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becomes an ideology, right. 
I mean, if we look at how, you 

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know, for for the dimension of 
economics that touches Bitcoin, 

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we live in a world where there's
not really a challenge of the 

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paradigm, the economic paradigm 
that we live in, right? 

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And for lots of people that lead
economics in our world it, it 

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became more of an ideology than 
a continuous kind of like 

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exploration of how can we 
improve, right. 

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So I've, I think you mentioned 
something like ideologies are 

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becoming redundant. 
How how do you put that in, you 

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know, a few on economics and 
then you know especially your 

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your angle comes from Austrian 
economics. 

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Can you share a bit about that? 
I think to use Austrian 

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economics as a as a way to 
describe economics, you're 

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looking for an epistemological 
basis for every thought you have

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about it. 
You want to at least verify with

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logic whatever you find to be to
be true and then incorporate it 

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in how you can describe what 
economy is. 

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And I think Ludwig for Mises 
explains this perfectly in his 

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book Human Action. 
And I think if you don't do this

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then you create an ideology. 
And an ideology is is something 

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that is per different per 
definition, not necessarily 

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true. 
It it actually requires some 

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fiction. 
Otherwise it isn't ideology. 

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But the danger isn't in there 
being an ideology. 

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The danger is in basing the the 
outcome, the goal of your 

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understanding what you're 
looking for, basing it on, on an

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ideology, because that becomes a
bias then for whatever happens 

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after that. 
And I think this is what 

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happened to modern economics and
just neglecting research done by

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other economists, and I think by
by that becoming an ideology and

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then claiming it isn't also 
didn't really help achieving any

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real understanding of the of the
actual reality that that economy

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is. 
Hey there. 

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Thanks so much for listening to 
this episode. 

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I just really want to ask you 
for a quick favour. 

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Over the last few months I've 
seen that only 75% of people who

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listen to this podcast or watch 
it on YouTube are actually 

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subscribed. 
The most important thing I'm 

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currently focusing on, next to 
hopefully giving you interesting

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conversations is growing this 
podcast subscriber base so I can

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continue with it into the 
future. 

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I want to thank everyone who's 
been viewing and listening to 

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Bitcoin for millennials leaving 
comments here and sending me 

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DMS. 
It's been super, super 

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motivating. 
So thank you so much. 

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So I really want to ask you to 
please hit the subscribe button 

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on YouTube or follow me on your 
favorite podcasting app if you 

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are enjoying this podcast. 
Thanks again for joining me on 

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this journey. 
Now back to the conversation. 

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Yeah. 
But like where we live in now, 

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you see that based on certain 
ideology around economics, 

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certain policy is created, I 
would agree in a biased way, 

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right. 
They they write the policy to 

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eventually achieve you know 
basically only the one goal of 

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the of the ideology they follow.
But you've stated before and I 

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love that that like and I think 
that's from Mises to write about

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human action, that human action 
always adjusts and continues 

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regardless of the policy, right.
So these ideologues, they create

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policy to influence human 
behavior. 

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But you state that the people 
will always find a way around 

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it. 
And how? 

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Like, I wanted to ask you, like,
how do you, how do you see that 

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in the current state of 
economics? 

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Like when? 
Now that I'm saying this, I'm 

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thinking about stuff like 
prohibition. 

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You know, that's maybe a bit 
more classic, right? 

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But there's always, there's 
always people that do not adjust

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their behavior based on a 
certain rule, and there's people

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that do. 
So why? 

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Why do you think there there 
will always be more people that 

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will actually not adjust that 
the human action actually always

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Trump's the policies? 
I think it it's just because 

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human action is is a phenomenon 
and if you change the conditions

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for that phenomenon, it doesn't,
it doesn't change the phenomenon

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itself, it it changes the 
outcome of it. 

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So if you forbid somebody to do 
something, then they're going to

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look for a way to achieve a 
better situation for themselves 

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in a different way. 
And they're going to look for 

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the thing that isn't forbidden 
anymore or they're going to risk

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the the, the, the crime. 
That's what you see in the war 

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on drugs. 
But for example, people take 

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drugs. 
There's no way to stop people 

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from taking drugs. 
One in four people in the in the

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United States uses cocaine. 
That's that's a given fact. 

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And they they will use cocaine 
no matter what the punishment 

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is. 
And having a policy like a ban 

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on drugs, I think it's idiotic 
because you you don't change 

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anything about the the desire of
people and the and the economic 

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choices that they make. 
What you do create is is a is a 

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system that allows criminality 
to exist. 

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If you want to get rid of the 
criminality then you you have to

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accept the fact that people take
drugs and they desire to do so 

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no matter what. 
And I see even easier policy and

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that is to make money on drugs. 
The the United States could 

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potentially make a lot of money 
on taxing the industry but they 

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don't. 
They spent a lot of public money

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on the war on drugs and it's 
just all wasted. 

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So why don't more people think 
like this? 

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I'm thinking about you explain 
the paradigm like a lots of 

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people live in a paradigm or 
they follow a paradigm, right. 

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That kind of helps them 
structure their life and actions

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etcetera. 
I think you know if you if 

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people listen to this now and 
they hear you say well people 

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just use drugs, right? 
And I can imagine some people 

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say, yeah, but drugs, drugs are 
bad. 

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I'm OK like that. 
But it's interesting because I I

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feel that for example with this 
this topic, right, you can well,

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you can feel like multiple 
things are true at the same 

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time, right? 
Like, I agree, human human 

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action will like that will never
go away, right? 

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Like the need of people to do 
what they or the want of people 

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to do what they want to do or 
circumvent certain rules created

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by just other people, right? 
Like why would these other 

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people know better than me what 
to do with my life? 

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Like I agree with that. 
But also, I do agree with, for 

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example, in in, let's say the 
drugs topic, right? 

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If you completely legalize 
drugs, there will be more people

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that do drugs and not everyone 
should do drugs. 

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You know, like whatever, 
whatever drugs were you talking?

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About do we? 
Do we know that for sure? 

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I I mean that's a that's a good 
reply. 

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I mean more like, I don't know 
kind of following this idea of 

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like the fact that you can 
doesn't mean you should or 

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something right Like and it's 
kind of ties into how? 

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There are more side effects. 
How can you of? 

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The War on drugs, So for 
example, illegal St. drugs 

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create a situation where 
somebody goes looking for weed 

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and they they go to a street 
dealer. 

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The street dealer doesn't only 
have weed in his pocket, he also

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has some fentanyl. 
He also has some Oxycontin. 

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He also has some some GHP. 
Whatever. 

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Whatever the dealer carries is 
for sale, and people who are 

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tempted to try different things 
will eventually try it sooner 

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under the influence of an 
illegal dealer who is just there

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to to scam them out of out of 
money. 

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I mean the ethics of a street 
dealer is pretty questionable. 

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So the the side effect of St. 
dealing is hazardous to the to 

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the user of the drugs. 
And this is, this is one of the 

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reasons that in the in the late 
70s and early 80s in the 

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Netherlands coffee shops became 
allowed. 

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And this is because the the the 
guys who went to Nepal and came 

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back with a big slap of of hash,
they also had heroin and it kind

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of looks the same. 
So they would just sell it in 

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the streets to whoever uses 
wanted to buy it. 

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And this is this is how heroin 
became popular as a as a drug, 

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as a recreational drug in in 
those days. 

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And there were dealers who did 
have an idea how to conduct this

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more safely. 
And they just started talk 

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talking with the governing 
bodies about potentially 

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creating shops that would just 
sell weed because weed is sort 

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of harmless and and hashis and 
because it's just THC and some 

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CBD and and it's it's not as 
impactful on your health and on 

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00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,480
your on on your mental health 
and your further productivity as

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heroin is. 
So the course that the Dutch 

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government took with that by 
allowing it and and working 

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together with people who sell 
drugs to at least allow weed and

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hushies, I think is a very sane 
reaction to the availability of 

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of of several kinds of drugs 
that had extremely different 

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outcomes on on behaviour of 
people. 

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And I think people aren't 
looking to use heroin per 

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00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:04,040
southeast, but if they are 
tempted to then there is a 

230
00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,760
higher chance of them actually 
trying it. 

231
00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:09,520
And of course it's it's pretty 
addictive so. 

232
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,920
Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking about 
where to, where to go with this.

233
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,760
I think I started this with 
like, you know, multiple things 

234
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,319
can be true because now that 
you're talking, I think about, 

235
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,520
you know, like of course alcohol
is legalized. 

236
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,560
And I mean we could have a 
conversation about that Alcohol 

237
00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,840
is probably worse than smoking 
weed from from time to time, 

238
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,040
right. 
But it's just so normalized that

239
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:36,240
you know, and there's a lobby of
course. 

240
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,960
So if if, if there would be like
a complete legalization of 

241
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,800
drugs, there would be some sort 
of lobby fight with the alcohol 

242
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:51,200
industry and tobacco for sure. 
So and and as you said like not 

243
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,600
people are not necessarily 
looking for heroin etcetera, but

244
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:58,880
I feel like it's kind of and 
that's why I talked about the 

245
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,120
paradigm part. 
Like you you just said in the 

246
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,240
beginning, you know paradigms 
are essential for exploring 

247
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,880
ideas, right. 
But if you if you want to 

248
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,400
explore ideas doesn't mean you 
can, right, Like you have to be 

249
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:18,240
able to open your mind to a 
certain degree and park some of 

250
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,280
the thoughts or the beliefs you 
have in order to also explore 

251
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,760
new ideas, right. 
And I in my opinion, that's a 

252
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:32,920
very conscious action, right? 
You you consciously search for 

253
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:36,960
things that challenge your 
beliefs and thoughts to see what

254
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:41,680
you can learn from that. 
And I don't, I I think that not 

255
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:46,080
everyone can do that, which is 
OK, right? 

256
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:51,080
But then, you know, if you would
open up for for example, like 

257
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,600
all the drugs to to just be 
bought legally, that's kind of 

258
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,120
my point. 
More like I don't think everyone

259
00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,240
can actually be responsible, 
responsible, but perhaps this is

260
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:08,480
also something we we touch, we 
touch upon later. 

261
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,600
But I feel like it's kind of, 
you know, the taking the 

262
00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,920
responsibility to consciously 
think about what do I spend my 

263
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:19,080
time on or what drugs do I want 
to take or which book do I want 

264
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,560
to read. 
I I don't think that's very 

265
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:25,240
different from each other. 
Does that make sense? 

266
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:29,400
Like what what you do, basically
what what you spend your time on

267
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,880
or what action you take. 
So that's why I said like 

268
00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:33,800
multiple things can be true at 
the same time. 

269
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:38,040
Like I agree with less policy 
and let people just do it. 

270
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,800
But there is there are people 
that cannot handle that 

271
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,000
responsibility. 
Well, I think in the in in 

272
00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:49,760
understanding human action, what
that means is you have to make 

273
00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:54,880
the decision to to, you have to 
make the sane decision to stick 

274
00:19:54,880 --> 00:20:00,240
to sanity and to understand that
if you want to implement a 

275
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:05,640
policy you you need also to have
an, you have to create a policy 

276
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,320
that is enforceable. 
You can't. 

277
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,400
You can't. 
Implement a policy that isn't 

278
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,320
enforceable. 
It's just not it's it's insane. 

279
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,000
So as soon as you discover that 
something is not enforceable, 

280
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,880
you need to stop with the policy
and then you need to figure 

281
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,720
something else out and and you 
can find something. 

282
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,440
Maybe there's a policy with 
drugs that does work, but 

283
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:37,800
prohibition in this case has 
turned out to be a complete 

284
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,080
disaster. 
I mean utter disaster for out of

285
00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:48,520
all my American friends, 
everybody I know in in the 

286
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:53,200
States, and this is hundreds of 
people, everybody, they out of 

287
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,440
everybody they know there are 
people who died from overdoses. 

288
00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,960
And for me as a Dutch guy, this 
is unheard of. 

289
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,840
I don't know anybody in the 
Netherlands who has ODD on 

290
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:05,320
anything at all. 
I agree. 

291
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,280
Me. 
Me neither. 

292
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:07,160
No. 
Yeah. 

293
00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,480
So. 
It's, it's just. 

294
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,200
Completely nuts. 
Yeah. 

295
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,280
I think that's a great 
illustration by the way, where I

296
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:18,400
mean I think the the drug laws 
in the Netherlands are are 

297
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,320
flawed, right. 
It's like a real Dutch solution 

298
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,040
to this, like how they approach 
it now. 

299
00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:28,240
But it's still better than total
crackdown on it. 

300
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,880
I agree that that's already what
you see with with this 

301
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:35,280
illustration of do you know 
anyone who Od'd and died like 

302
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:36,880
yeah, I don't know anyone 
either. 

303
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:38,600
So I think I think that's a 
fairpoint. 

304
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:43,680
So when you talk about or when 
people in Bitcoin especially, 

305
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,760
you know, talk about Austrian 
economics, how, how does the 

306
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:53,360
approach in Austrian economics 
help us in understanding like 

307
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,560
those limitations of policy that
you just mentioned? 

308
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:02,000
I mean, you read way more about 
this than than I did, but I'd 

309
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:06,720
love to get like an insight on 
how how does Austrian economics 

310
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:12,920
approach this specific part. 
Well, it explains a lot about 

311
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:18,640
what what is going wrong and 
it's it also explains how how to

312
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,240
fix it. 
But that's only through a hard 

313
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,600
money standard. 
That's the reason why I became 

314
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,840
so interested in it. 
I I got bitten by the Bitcoin 

315
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,640
bug hard, as many, many of us 
were. 

316
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:40,640
And I I thought there has to be 
some way to understand more more

317
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:42,920
about the consequences of 
Bitcoin. 

318
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:49,720
And I think much good has been 
been said about this. 

319
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:55,080
I've recently read Knut's Van 
Holm's Praxeology was a really 

320
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,720
good book. 
It's a very, very good 

321
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:07,160
introduction to human action to,
I mean praxeology human action. 

322
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:16,800
But I I think not many people 
who own Bitcoin currently are 

323
00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,840
aware of the of the topic and 
the and the broader consequences

324
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:26,920
of it. 
How the incentives of of people 

325
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:33,040
change on a on a different money
standard and it is being 

326
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:37,280
hammered on constantly. 
But I still think by the way 

327
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,640
people react to one another on 
Noster, for example in in 

328
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:48,200
exchange of messages, there's 
there's still too much. 

329
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,520
Sticking to the old mentality of
having a high time preference 

330
00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:00,760
and not understanding that you 
can, you can now finally let go.

331
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,760
So what's the core of that? 
You'd say? 

332
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:09,040
Like, what's the thing that 
people don't understand then 

333
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,720
yet? 
I think that that they're still 

334
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:18,520
selling their time and because 
they're still selling their time

335
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:24,760
in a way that is eroded by the 
system that's paying them out, 

336
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:34,560
they they don't open their eyes 
for the the thing they should be

337
00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:41,080
really doing. 
And many, many are doing it or 

338
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:45,640
or halfway doing it or or for 
90% doing it. 

339
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:51,600
But still, lots of the old 
paradigm lingers in in the minds

340
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:56,120
of of many bitcoiners still, and
I think it's just a matter of 

341
00:24:56,120 --> 00:25:00,640
time that this this just evolves
towards a better understanding 

342
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:07,800
of how to spend time efficiently
and how to really master time 

343
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:12,120
preference to make. 
Yeah, that's what I actually 

344
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:15,720
wanted to say. 
I think if if if you would want 

345
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,560
more people to move into this 
harder money, right, quicker 

346
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,920
than that is of course a sign of
high time preference, right? 

347
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,760
We cannot. 
I think this is an interesting 

348
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,680
subject because I think 
especially on Twitter and I know

349
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,160
Twitter, especially for us or 
Noster you know it's a real 

350
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,280
bubble. 
We are at the forefront of of 

351
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,440
this new thing. 
But I feel lots of people expect

352
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,360
way too much in way too little 
time, right? 

353
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:50,560
They they want so many things to
happen in a short period of 

354
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,800
time, right? 
Their expectations are are are 

355
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,880
way too high and I think we 
cannot expect me people to to 

356
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:04,440
move to this new money very 
quickly in whatever way, right? 

357
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,040
Like whether you sell your fee 
of currency for Bitcoin or you 

358
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:11,200
start taking a job in Bitcoin or
selling your product products or

359
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,440
services in Bitcoin, whatever 
that is for for someone right. 

360
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,760
It it, it just takes time and I 
don't know how that is for you, 

361
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:27,120
but I feel like that is also 
part of the personal challenge 

362
00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:30,040
for us. 
Like we already see this and we 

363
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,440
want this to exist. 
And we know that a world on a 

364
00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:41,360
hard money will become super 
abundant and people will 

365
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,360
actually do what they would, 
what they would love to do, 

366
00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:50,120
right in terms of job or or 
ventures or or whatever. 

367
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,880
But it just doesn't change this 
fast because the paradigm that 

368
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,720
we're battling right is very 
strong and most people don't 

369
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:03,520
actually realize that they are 
operating in a certain system 

370
00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,160
that they just don't understand.
So yeah, I just feel like we 

371
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,200
should also temper our own time 
preference in that sense. 

372
00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,920
I think it's also because even 
though Bitcoin is focused on the

373
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,640
cyclical nature of Bitcoin all 
the time, they just do it to 

374
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:27,440
watch price action and all the 
models are about price action 

375
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:33,160
and I think price action is is 
interesting because it shows 

376
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,720
what you then can do with it. 
And I think the the, the 

377
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:41,560
cycling, cyclical nature of 
Bitcoin that I'm that I'm now 

378
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,160
mostly interested in is what 
capital. 

379
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,560
Capital is freed by the price 
action of Bitcoin. 

380
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:52,160
So with every cycle the price 
goes up and then the budget of 

381
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,480
people, us bitcoiners, becomes 
enormous. 

382
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:02,320
So imagine going from having 
invested 100,000 in in in 

383
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:10,880
Bitcoin a couple years ago and 
and then by that owning 2020 

384
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,600
Bitcoin, you now have more than 
20 of it. 

385
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,000
You have now more than 10 times 
as as much. 

386
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:22,640
And all this, all this money is 
now giving you a feeling of 

387
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,400
safety and you're just smiling 
all day. 

388
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,560
And this is, this is real 
capital. 

389
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,800
It's real money. 
This is not, this is not 

390
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,840
something that you became owner 
of because you leveraged into 

391
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:39,040
debt. 
So it's not like you own 20 

392
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:45,080
houses and only percentage of 
that is, is yours, and your 

393
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,360
stream of income pays somebody 
else's stream of income. 

394
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,880
No, this is Bitcoin. 
It's it's true. 

395
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:57,240
It's hardness and it's it's in 
your possession and you can do 

396
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,880
with it what you what you want. 
But now fast, Fast forward 

397
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,160
another cycle and it it 10X 
again. 

398
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,240
Then all of the sudden your 
lifestyle changes because you 

399
00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,920
now no longer need to work. 
You have you have 5015 million 

400
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:20,640
and you don't know what to spend
it on but you do have ideals. 

401
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,800
Not you're you're not an 
idealogue. 

402
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,480
You have come to see that 
Bitcoin really works. 

403
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:32,280
You're an idealist. 
You you understand the the value

404
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,480
propositions of Bitcoin and now 
with that you can also invest 

405
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,560
back into Bitcoin and you have 
every incentive to do so. 

406
00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,080
And what is your budget. 
It's it's literally the the 

407
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,640
magic Internet money and now 
because you have $15 million, 

408
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:58,560
you have 55 million to spend 
without there a need to be a 

409
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,680
return because the return is 
already in in the Bitcoin that 

410
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,520
you have. 
It's already it's already that 

411
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:10,040
valuable. 
So this happens every cycle and 

412
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,920
the the people who are in 
Bitcoin now for and have been 

413
00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:19,400
for a long time, they have every
incentive to invest back into 

414
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:21,840
Bitcoin. 
You see this with with Jeff 

415
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:29,280
Booth coming to the realization 
that he is holding on to to 

416
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:34,400
something which is not just an 
idea not just not just a wealth 

417
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,440
that it that it brought, but but
it's a it's a holistic thing 

418
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:39,840
too. 
Bitcoin gave him a certain 

419
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:45,000
freedom and he wants to give 
back to the community also. 

420
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,960
And you see that he starts to 
spend his time in a certain way 

421
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,720
so that as he calls it himself, 
he is no longer an hip, a 

422
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:56,240
hypocrite. 
He is contributing to the 

423
00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,200
development of Bitcoin in the in
the in the way he thinks is 

424
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,600
best. 
And when we were at Bitcoin 

425
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:08,680
Atlantis in Madeira, we saw 
Michael Saylor in his speech, 

426
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:14,720
and he announced there to the 
public that MicroStrategy is no 

427
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,920
longer just a Bitcoin investment
company, it's a Bitcoin 

428
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:22,040
development company. 
And the reason that he says this

429
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:29,240
is, is that he has every 
incentive to invest capital into

430
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,920
Bitcoin development, because the
more he makes the ecosystem who 

431
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,040
who more. 
The more value he creates for 

432
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:41,040
the ecosystem, the more it also 
returns to the value that he 

433
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,760
holds. 
So a certain fall off percentage

434
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:52,440
of acquired wealth can go to 
just distributing it to to 

435
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,200
people who are building for him,
creating creating a better 

436
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,040
ecosystem. 
And he doesn't even need to own 

437
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,240
it because everything that 
happens in the ecosystem is 

438
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,280
better better for him. 
So he's every every incentive to

439
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:09,160
to give give a loan to a certain
small company a start up that 

440
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:16,440
that is is developing E cash on 
Bitcoin or a new a new kind of 

441
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:23,920
wallet that does some something 
that is just more seamless in 

442
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,680
integration or what whatever 
whatever you can think of or a 

443
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:31,440
mining company for that matter, 
no. 

444
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:36,280
I think there's also a really 
big shift in, you know, Fiat 

445
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,920
economy or a Fiat world is kind 
of like a 0 sum game, right? 

446
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,560
When I win, you lose. 
And a Bitcoin world is a 

447
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,640
mutually beneficial game, 
basically. 

448
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:52,240
So exactly like you like you 
said, right? 

449
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,600
Like. 
We both play. 

450
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,320
We both. 
Play. 

451
00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:01,280
Yeah, exactly. 
And that's also sometimes what I

452
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:07,640
see when I try to like bears 
true, like negative, negative 

453
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,960
views on Bitcoin, right. 
People think it's too good to be

454
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,880
true basically, right? 
Like that they in a sense can 

455
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,960
save themselves, right? 
Or actually build towards future

456
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:26,840
or be that lucky that we are 
living at this moment and in 

457
00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:35,360
time where a new money is being 
monetized that you know that 

458
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,160
that that can actually be given 
to you in some sense, right. 

459
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,080
And I think I talked about this 
a lot before but I think the the

460
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,760
conversation I had with the Eric
case and really stands out like 

461
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,880
it's a very nihilistic 
worldview, right. 

462
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:57,160
The the 0 sum game type thing 
it's very negative like very 

463
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:01,200
very very negative. 
And also it it doesn't give 

464
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:07,840
people of course because it's 
nihilistic but like a positive 

465
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:14,520
outlook on the future. 
I don't I I to be honest I don't

466
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:18,120
know a lot of people especially 
outside of the Bitcoin I know 

467
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:23,159
that have a really positive 
outlook on the on the future you

468
00:34:23,159 --> 00:34:24,880
know like it's pretty 
nihilistic. 

469
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,440
I and I shared this I think a 
few episodes back. 

470
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,400
But like I talked to a guy, RH, 
super smart guy, CTO of company,

471
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:36,760
and he totally understood like 
all the flaws of Fiat money 

472
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,080
understands how Bitcoin works, 
but he still thinks it's not 

473
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,679
going to work, you know, because
it will be corrupted or 

474
00:34:42,679 --> 00:34:44,400
whatever. 
And then I asked him like, hey, 

475
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,360
do you have children? 
And he said no, this is also the

476
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,960
reason I don't have children. 
And it was really like the first

477
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:52,520
time I had like a one-on-one 
personal conversation with 

478
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,400
someone. 
Like I know these thoughts 

479
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,360
exist. 
You know, like people, some 

480
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,280
people think this, but like, 
that was really the first time I

481
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:04,720
had personal contact with 
someone who actually saw the 

482
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,160
world like that. 
And it just, it really hit me. 

483
00:35:07,240 --> 00:35:11,920
Like, I thought it was so sad in
a way. 

484
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,800
And I also asked him, like, you 
know, with all due respect, but 

485
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,240
like, like does this mean you 
gave up? 

486
00:35:18,240 --> 00:35:23,440
Like is this just it? 
And then he said, yeah I just, I

487
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,800
don't know I couldn't wrap my 
head around it's it's so far 

488
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:32,400
away from how I view the world 
like I'm realistic in what's 

489
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,640
going on but I'm and and that is
not very positive right. 

490
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,480
But I I do have a positive 
outlook towards the future but 

491
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,000
that's probably because I 
understand or see Bitcoin. 

492
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,280
I think that's the main reason. 
But I don't know it's just hard 

493
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:52,960
to see that in other people 
especially like our age like 

494
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:54,960
same you know like a millennial 
age. 

495
00:35:57,720 --> 00:35:59,200
Yeah, you're really building out
your life. 

496
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:02,800
And then this is your outlook. 
I don't know, like what? 

497
00:36:02,800 --> 00:36:04,160
What? 
Do you see this too? 

498
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:05,360
Or what? 
What? 

499
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:13,640
What are your thoughts there? 
Well, I'm I'm an optimist and I 

500
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:18,640
would have never given up, but I
have encountered people who are 

501
00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:23,440
less optimistic than I am, and I
think I am more than average 

502
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,040
optimist. 
But I think it's it. 

503
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:35,080
It has to do more with people's 
individual traits and whether 

504
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,400
they adhere to a positive world 
view. 

505
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:49,720
I know mankind is is not doomed 
to fail as a as a as a product 

506
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:55,400
of this universe wanting to get 
to know itself through our eyes 

507
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:05,960
and that's that's something that
I see because because I see what

508
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:14,280
people choose to do and I I see 
the good more than the bad. 

509
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:23,600
But my my father was a a 
nihilist and he he tried to 

510
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:32,000
battle it by becoming a 
supporter of of policies and 

511
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:37,920
this is also why why I'm so 
adamant about this he he 

512
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,080
believed he truly believed in 
globalism for the better of 

513
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:48,200
mankind and and just coercion 
towards teaching people to make 

514
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,960
better decisions. 
And I I knew this this was wrong

515
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,600
even before I understood what 
Bitcoin could do. 

516
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,840
But yeah, I'll I will always 
have a positive view of the 

517
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:12,560
future, just because of how I 
how I see the world and what 

518
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:15,440
kind of person I am. 
It's interesting when you share 

519
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:16,800
that. 
I think like that that is 

520
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,040
already a pretty nihilistic 
thought, right? 

521
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:21,080
Like teach other people how it 
should be done. 

522
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:24,160
It's actually, yeah, it's 
actually very negative. 

523
00:38:24,160 --> 00:38:28,240
But about it does tie in with 
what I said before, like I don't

524
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,880
think everyone can make the 
right decision, right, when it 

525
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,840
comes to drugs. 
So there, you know, if I reflect

526
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:38,360
on myself, I think there's also 
a bit of that in there. 

527
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:45,560
When I said it kind of disguised
as something that sounds caring,

528
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,160
interesting, I don't know, I'm 
just reflecting on, reflecting 

529
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,040
on that. 
But yeah, like I, I, I, I agree.

530
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:55,200
I have to think about that for 
myself. 

531
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:57,800
But I agree with, you know, if 
you think like, oh, I know how 

532
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,680
this works and I'm going to 
write and support policy to 

533
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,000
coerce other people into 
changing their behavior, like 

534
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:07,360
that sounds horrible actually, 
actually. 

535
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:11,200
Because what gives other people 
third, you know, third parties, 

536
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:17,080
the authority to influence your 
life decisions, which is 

537
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,160
basically, what do you spend 
your time on, right? 

538
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,800
Or what do you spend your mind 
energy, your mental energy, 

539
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,600
mental energy on? 
But like, how do you think, 

540
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,600
like, how, how did we get here? 
I also wanted to ask you about 

541
00:39:32,720 --> 00:39:37,000
you know like LSD experience, 
like insights into how how you 

542
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:39,360
view life. 
You just mentioned about the 

543
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,320
universe. 
What you sent to me is the 

544
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,600
universe is a self aware, is 
self aware through our 

545
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,120
perception. 
I love that. 

546
00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,280
But like how? 
How did that help you understand

547
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,320
basically life or what what 
people do in their life? 

548
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:04,560
Before I ever took LSD, I I 
studied cognitive science and 

549
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:08,320
learning about the the functions
of our brain. 

550
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:15,480
And trying to understand what 
brain activity is, what 

551
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:22,720
consciousness is, what learning 
is, gave me as a broad basis for

552
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,720
what? 
For understanding what LSD does 

553
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:31,720
to your mind. 
And what LSD then showed me was 

554
00:40:31,720 --> 00:40:40,160
that actually everything is 
vibrations and our our brain 

555
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:49,560
perceives only vibrations and 
enhancing this perception to 

556
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:54,840
become more sensitive to these 
vibrations and their resonances 

557
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:59,400
their their interference they 
they create to see all those 

558
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:06,800
patterns Where interference is 
their synergy of of waves is 

559
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:14,520
gave me the understanding that 
that if this is all we can 

560
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:21,120
perceive then that is our that 
that's the only thing we'll 

561
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:29,800
learn about our reality and and 
maybe you can have more insights

562
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:35,880
about what the what our reality 
is but you the the basis of it 

563
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,360
is that everything is is 
vibrations because that's all we

564
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:54,320
can perceive. 
And one of the things that I 

565
00:41:55,360 --> 00:42:05,880
that I concluded from that also 
is that if if you want to know 

566
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:21,120
what what time is, you have to 
understand how we perceive and 

567
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:24,480
time isn't something that we 
perceive. 

568
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:29,400
We have memories, we have 
retention of everything. 

569
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,040
It happens that happens. 
And we do this chronologically 

570
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:46,520
and this is through through 
retention and perceiving 

571
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:51,960
memories is actually the 
creating the perception of time.

572
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,480
Interesting. 
Yeah. 

573
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:05,560
I like to, I like, I like to 
think about the concept of time.

574
00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:09,360
Because everything was always 
now, right? 

575
00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,680
Just like the memory. 
The memory at that moment when 

576
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:19,320
it happened was was the now. 
But when you package it in the 

577
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:23,120
memory, you and you and you and 
like you said you, you put it in

578
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:28,560
in time, I think it's kind of 
distorts. 

579
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,560
It also distorts, distorts, 
distorts, distorts. 

580
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:44,920
It also in a sense, what what 
are like the things that you 

581
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,560
took away from those 
experiences, like how how did 

582
00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:53,160
you integrate them into your 
life, or your current views on 

583
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,200
economics, for example, or your 
work. 

584
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:02,880
I don't well, I don't know how 
how this integrates with 

585
00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,880
economics necessarily, but. 
Or like the human action that we

586
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:16,440
talked about. 
I think we have certain ideas 

587
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:21,880
about what facts are, and many 
of them aren't really facts at 

588
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:27,640
all. 
People just tend to believe a 

589
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:34,640
certain consensus and people are
susceptible to this and they 

590
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:40,120
create a reality or a world view
that's based on this ideology 

591
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:46,520
that they built together. 
And I'm, I'm just not. 

592
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:50,920
I'm never going to stop there. 
I'm I'm never going to accept a 

593
00:44:50,960 --> 00:44:56,000
certain way. 
Things are just because people 

594
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,760
who call themselves experts say 
that it is so. 

595
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:05,840
I will always want to know what 
the background is before this 

596
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:08,520
knowledge to want to exist in 
books. 

597
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,160
I'll always ask questions about 
it. 

598
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:16,960
I'll always want to scrutinize 
the the ideas and and what I'm 

599
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:19,480
searching for is the is the bias
behind it. 

600
00:45:19,920 --> 00:45:24,000
Most. 
Most ideas have a researcher's 

601
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:31,200
bias and that I think it's 
important for anyone who wants 

602
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:38,920
to understand anything to 
realize that everything is 

603
00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:40,920
biased all the time. 
And you have. 

604
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:47,920
You have to keep looking for the
for this phenomenon in in your 

605
00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:53,400
work, in your thoughts, and LSD 
helps to pull you out of 

606
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,640
fixations of ideas and show you 
something that is completely 

607
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:03,200
different. 
For me, it really felt as though

608
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,400
I was finally out of the 
fishbowl. 

609
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,880
I had been swimming around 
perfectly happy in this fishbowl

610
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,800
and I had my plants and my my my
gravel. 

611
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,840
And I saw, I saw the glass and I
thought it's it's marvelous 

612
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,080
there there, there must be 
something, something out there. 

613
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,720
And I took LSD and for the first
time I I held the the fishbowl 

614
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:32,480
in my hands and this. 
This is also why I encourage 

615
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,800
people to be interested in this.
If even though that not 

616
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,480
everybody is, not everybody 
should do it. 

617
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,400
Still something to be careful 
with. 

618
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:47,480
Most people don't really take it
well when they have memory 

619
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,800
impairment and this is this is 
something that people think is 

620
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,600
very, very scary most of the 
time. 

621
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:59,200
If you take a lot of LSD or or a
psilocybin, there's there's a 

622
00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:02,280
possibility that you you become 
memory impaired and you lose all

623
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:08,320
sense of time and the trip just 
is perceived to last forever. 

624
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:12,760
Because because your function of
memory fails, then your sense of

625
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:17,000
time fails and then you're 
you're stuck in a sort of a a 

626
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:19,360
hole. 
And if you don't know yourself 

627
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,480
well enough and you have some 
demons that that have been 

628
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,600
haunting you even though you've 
never really met them or 

629
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,920
acknowledged them, then you can.
You can be in for a very painful

630
00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:34,440
trip, but it ends and people can
get over those traumas and try 

631
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,920
try again. 
And I think that most people 

632
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,760
we'll have a good time and 
really learn beautiful things 

633
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:45,680
about themselves, about reality,
even if they just do it 

634
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,640
recreationally. 
I've never considered taking LSD

635
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:54,920
as a recreational phenomenon. 
I've I've always done it with 

636
00:47:57,200 --> 00:48:00,760
spirituality in mind, with self 
development in mind. 

637
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,680
I've always set this intention 
and I think set and setting in 

638
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:13,040
in in LSD, the way there you can
be conscious of what you get 

639
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:18,080
into and what circumstances you 
are under matters matters a lot.

640
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:22,960
I think Paul, Paul Stamets talks
a lot about that. 

641
00:48:23,840 --> 00:48:27,200
Yeah. 
Michael, Michael Pollan, I read 

642
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:31,640
his book and I think he's 
summarized it well also. 

643
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:32,640
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

644
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,840
I love the fishbowl example. 
I think what you eventually 

645
00:48:36,840 --> 00:48:43,240
learn is that you are not the 
subject, you are the observer 

646
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:50,240
watching the subject basically. 
And that you know if you can 

647
00:48:50,240 --> 00:48:55,240
look at the fishable that you 
what you think is you, right 

648
00:48:55,240 --> 00:48:59,720
your your body and your name and
where you're from and all these 

649
00:48:59,720 --> 00:49:04,320
things you know that is what we 
ascribe as to the you or what 

650
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,480
you are. 
But if you are the observer, the

651
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,080
self, then you observe what what
is the subject. 

652
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:18,320
And then once you realize that 
you know I, I, I love the 

653
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,320
example of you know if the voice
in your head is talking, then 

654
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,400
who is listening, right? 
You are not talking and 

655
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:25,680
listening at the at the same 
time. 

656
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,600
You are listening to the voice. 
You are the listener. 

657
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:32,160
You're the observer. 
But yeah, I agree. 

658
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,040
I think I think that takes work 
to kind of like get there and be

659
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,360
open for that. 
But I was also thinking when you

660
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,280
talk about talked about 
consensus, right, like the 

661
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:45,400
consensus is also in a sense the
bias, right? 

662
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:49,600
If you agree with a consensus 
without scrutinizing it in a 

663
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:51,760
way, right? 
Or researching it in a way or 

664
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:56,200
questioning it in a way and you 
just follow it, which is the 

665
00:49:56,200 --> 00:50:00,640
easiest, easiest thing to do, 
basically. 

666
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,280
Because you know when you 
scrutinize the consensus, you 

667
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,000
also scrutinize your own faults 
and beliefs about something. 

668
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:10,040
And that's and that is hard for 
a lot of people. 

669
00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:16,400
That's a problem I have with the
the mechanist materialist 

670
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:20,200
paradigm that is currently the 
bias in science. 

671
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:27,400
It's just blinding scientists to
open their eyes to what I think 

672
00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:33,880
is a far more encompassing and 
understanding paradigm, which is

673
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,280
the acoustic paradigm. 
I see myself and my my central 

674
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:44,280
nervous system as an acoustic 
instrument and with that I have 

675
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:51,000
a, a, a a a paradigm that is 
extremely different, that 

676
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,400
diverges from from the 
mechanistic paradigm that allows

677
00:50:55,400 --> 00:51:02,960
to understand certain phenomena.
For example placebo effect is 

678
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,880
something that is is you can't 
explain it with the mechanist 

679
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:12,480
paradigm and also the 
integration of what what 

680
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,560
strength theory is trying to do 
the integration of office of 

681
00:51:16,560 --> 00:51:23,560
physics laws into into one 
encompassing theory. 

682
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:29,760
I think it's impossible from the
mechanistic paradigm and I I 

683
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:35,040
think the problem with the 
mechanist paradigm is for 

684
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:38,720
example this is something that 
Rupert Sheldrake has has written

685
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:40,960
a lot about. 
He's dedicated his life to this 

686
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:44,720
and and I think it's it's 
beautiful the way he describes 

687
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:50,520
it. 
The the mechanist paradigm is 

688
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:59,480
determining for science that 
nature itself and the laws of 

689
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:04,200
nature are are are fixed and 
can't evolve also. 

690
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:09,800
And just assuming this for 
whatever science discovers 

691
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,760
through research is just such a 
short minded vision of what 

692
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,680
you're what you're trying to 
accomplish. 

693
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:22,120
Because what you're trying to 
accomplish is is not to rule out

694
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:24,640
where you're what you're going 
to find out. 

695
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,760
You need to have a framework 
that allows for more 

696
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:32,840
possibilities. 
Because the the, the you don't 

697
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:34,760
know what the outcome of your 
research is. 

698
00:52:34,880 --> 00:52:40,920
You have to you have to have an 
as an as open an eye as possible

699
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:49,000
to to also be able to recognize 
when you have discovered 

700
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,000
something. 
I'm reading. 

701
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,880
I'm reading this book by Gary 
Gary Klein now and he he calls 

702
00:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,400
it he calls it stacks. 
Stacks of ideas that lead to the

703
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:04,640
discovery of new new ideas. 
I kind of like that in a sense 

704
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:08,480
this this is this the rabbit 
hole I'm in now I'm I'm I'm 

705
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,840
finding out more about Bitcoin 
mining and I'm I I spoke to 

706
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:18,200
somebody who works in in the 
power sector and that person 

707
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:23,560
said that 2020 gigawatts of 
power which is the total mining 

708
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:28,440
capacity of of the world of of 
of all of Bitcoin mining is 

709
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:35,160
minute, she called it. 
Compared to compared to energy 

710
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,200
consumption. 
Yeah. 

711
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:43,720
But not just that compared to 
what a typical energy company 

712
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:50,400
has in consumption. 
Yeah, and at at first it it kind

713
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:53,200
of scared me. 
But then I and then I realized 

714
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:57,760
something that I now with Gary 
Klein's idea of stacks can can 

715
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:04,240
sort of articulate better. 
Bitcoin is already a niche. 

716
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:08,600
There are very few people who 
understand Bitcoin. 

717
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:18,040
And once you do, you become 
adamant and you start explaining

718
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:22,400
it to people and to yourself 
better and better. 

719
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,000
But then there's Bitcoin mining,
and that's the niche within the 

720
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:34,280
niche, and there are very few 
bitcoiners who understand what a

721
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:39,040
an opportunity it is to be in 
mining and also what kind of 

722
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:43,520
responsibility it brings. 
And I see it as the the 

723
00:54:43,720 --> 00:54:47,360
responsibility to to 
revolutionize the energy sector 

724
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,440
because the energy sector sector
is one of the most wasteful 

725
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,280
wasteful industries one of the 
most wasteful products of 

726
00:54:54,280 --> 00:55:03,520
mankind ever to just because of 
low demand just throw away a a 

727
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:07,160
large percentage of your 
production just because there's 

728
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:12,920
there's no incentive and and no,
no we no way to fix this 

729
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:17,840
inefficiency and Bitcoin, 
Bitcoin mining really does fix 

730
00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,440
this inefficiency. 
Yeah. 

731
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:24,160
What about this? 
Sorry. 

732
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:27,880
Like when you say about stacking
ideas, I think it does come from

733
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:33,320
kind of like first principle 
type thinking or I think it's 

734
00:55:33,320 --> 00:55:38,080
also a bit spiritual in a sense.
Like like for me, I at one point

735
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:42,080
just adopted. 
I saw someone say like once you 

736
00:55:42,760 --> 00:55:45,760
know that you don't know 
everything, right, Then the 

737
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,800
world opens up, you know it's 
and and kind of like combined 

738
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,920
with you know, everybody's 
winging it and nobody knows what

739
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,360
they're doing. 
Like that is really true, right?

740
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:02,320
We are all trying to figure it 
out, whatever it is, right. 

741
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:08,600
Like how however you, however 
you define it and I and and I, I

742
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:12,600
still try to wrap my head around
what what is that right? 

743
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,520
Because it is actually. 
It's also human action. 

744
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,400
It's it's it's something. 
It's a hard decision. 

745
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,240
It's a hard decision because if 
the world opens up, right, 

746
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,960
that's a lot of information. 
That's a lot of things to think 

747
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,240
about, right? 
That's a lot of things to 

748
00:56:28,240 --> 00:56:32,480
consider to constantly. 
I think it's also one of the 

749
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:35,120
things you sent to me, right? 
But like, you know, sometimes 

750
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,560
you have rational thoughts, you 
have ideas, but you're always 

751
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:43,000
open, like you're never married 
to them because you know that 

752
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:44,760
you don't know everything, 
right? 

753
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:50,320
And you and I also, we we enjoy 
doing that. 

754
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:55,600
It's enjoyable, right? 
And it gives us a certain energy

755
00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:02,320
and fulfilment in a sense. 
But lots of people are not like 

756
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:05,800
this and not to criticize, not 
at all. 

757
00:57:05,800 --> 00:57:08,600
But it's just like not not a lot
of people are like are like 

758
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,920
that. 
And these are the people that 

759
00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:18,680
yeah, basically get abused or 
they get put in this paradigm 

760
00:57:18,840 --> 00:57:22,120
right or they agree with the 
consensus and then they, you 

761
00:57:22,120 --> 00:57:27,560
know never have to think again. 
Maybe that's a bit short 

762
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:29,560
sighted, but like they don't 
have to think for themselves, 

763
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,160
right? 
Other people think, think for 

764
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,080
them. 
And when you were talking about 

765
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:36,520
science, one of the things I had
to think about, and I loved that

766
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,640
I heard Bernardo you know 
Bernardo Kostrope? 

767
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:46,040
No. 
I think he is a physicist, but 

768
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:48,280
also like I don't know if it's 
into string theory or whatever, 

769
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:54,520
but he had he studied like Adams
and eventually I I heard an 

770
00:57:54,760 --> 00:58:01,360
interview with him but he ended 
up at same conclusion as that. 

771
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:05,480
You know, Eastern philosophers 
already ended up, you know, like

772
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,840
everything has a consciousness, 
everything is conscious, 

773
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:11,000
etcetera. 
But he talked about like how how

774
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:16,600
science is conducted that it's 
it's a bit flawed because and he

775
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:21,280
used this term like we follow 
observation is creation. 

776
00:58:21,280 --> 00:58:24,600
And then he had the example of 
Darwin sitting on his boat. 

777
00:58:24,600 --> 00:58:27,640
You know, he's observing, I 
don't know, certain types of 

778
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,840
birds, whatever for two weeks. 
And he sees what they do. 

779
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:38,080
And then he creates a law, a 
nature law or a model, you know,

780
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:40,440
like this. 
Yeah. 

781
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:42,200
Theory. 
He talks about, you know, we 

782
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:50,200
know a lot of laws of nature, 
but we don't know why they exist

783
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,880
like that. 
And the why they exist like that

784
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,200
is a way more interesting 
question than just stating what 

785
00:58:56,200 --> 00:58:59,320
you have observed, right. 
Like, OK, but why is it like 

786
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:00,600
that? 
I'm always, you know, I have 

787
00:59:00,600 --> 00:59:03,480
this plant in the background 
like I and I just got like a new

788
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:05,440
leaf. 
I'm always fascinated like how 

789
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,480
does the plant know how it 
should grow. 

790
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:10,560
You know, like it's weird. 
So I can observe the plant and 

791
00:59:10,560 --> 00:59:13,800
how it grows, but it's still 
like why? 

792
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:18,280
How was this plant programmed to
grow like this? 

793
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:19,920
Like how to. 
I don't know if you see it on 

794
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:21,720
the video of people are 
watching, but it's like this 

795
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,920
Trelicia big plant. 
And you have like a huge leaf, 

796
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:28,200
almost a meter, and it's all 
like all rolled up and it grows 

797
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:31,640
and then, you know, it opens up.
And I'm with every leaf. 

798
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:34,400
I'm just fascinated, like, how, 
how does this work? 

799
00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:36,000
Right. 
And this is kind of what he 

800
00:59:36,000 --> 00:59:38,440
talks about. 
Like we can be like, oh, this 

801
00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:39,760
plant grows like this. 
Yeah. 

802
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,920
But the question is why? 
You know? 

803
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,240
And the why is definitely not 
answered. 

804
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:49,800
And we don't know anything about
the why not a not a lot, right? 

805
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:54,480
And so he talks about yeah 
that's also because the the why 

806
00:59:54,480 --> 00:59:57,800
is from reason and reason is 
human. 

807
00:59:58,040 --> 01:00:01,200
It's a it's a human phenomenon 
and we don't know whether the 

808
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:05,920
universe itself also reasons we 
it's an assumption but it's an 

809
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,720
assumption either. 
Either way, so if if the if if 

810
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:13,760
the if the universe and all all 
matter in the universe has 

811
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:19,640
purpose or not, If you decide 
either one is true for for your 

812
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:26,960
work then that. 
That sets it and then you're 

813
01:00:27,000 --> 01:00:31,320
limiting yourself. 
So I I think a why question is 

814
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:38,640
is point is interesting, but I 
think the if if you if you 

815
01:00:38,640 --> 01:00:41,880
notice that you can't really 
answer it truth truthfully or if

816
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:44,400
if you can't really find 
something that's meaningful 

817
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,040
about asking the why why 
question. 

818
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:52,360
The how question is also 
interesting and just to 

819
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,560
understand the phenomenon from a
from a different viewpoint. 

820
01:00:55,560 --> 01:01:00,160
Instead of reason just just to 
be able to observe without 

821
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:06,960
evaluation and and to try to 
connect everything that is 

822
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:12,320
happening and to understand the 
the process from what it's what 

823
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,360
it produces and and then later 
you can you can bring the why 

824
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:21,280
question back again and then and
then see oh oh so maybe the 

825
01:01:21,280 --> 01:01:26,640
process was way longer than I 
thought and and now now I'm I 

826
01:01:26,640 --> 01:01:29,760
might be able to answer the the 
why question too. 

827
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,040
Yeah, good point. 
I I think what I tried to say 

828
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:42,080
was more like the if we end on 
the consensus of, you know, this

829
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,640
is a nature's law, whatever, 
then we also like stop thinking 

830
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:48,880
further, right? 
And I think that's what I liked 

831
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:54,360
in his point is like, OK, you 
can identify how something works

832
01:01:54,360 --> 01:01:57,160
but not why it works like that, 
right. 

833
01:01:57,160 --> 01:02:04,360
So you cannot be so rigid as 
some people are about saying 

834
01:02:04,360 --> 01:02:10,600
something like this is how XYZ 
works and that is just it, 

835
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,520
right? 
That that cannot be, that cannot

836
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,680
be the consensus, because 
there's there's something behind

837
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:19,160
that. 
As to the why, and you don't 

838
01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:21,560
necessarily have to answer the 
why, I agree. 

839
01:02:21,880 --> 01:02:28,520
But if you can agree that that 
stated truth or that stated 

840
01:02:28,520 --> 01:02:35,480
consensus is not the the final 
understanding, that's when you 

841
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:38,240
keep an open mind to to keep 
exploring. 

842
01:02:38,240 --> 01:02:43,200
You know whatever could be 
different in not only 

843
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,400
information, but also you know, 
the actions that that you can 

844
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:51,280
take in, you know, whatever, 
whatever, whatever context. 

845
01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:54,440
But that there's also something 
I wanted to ask you about alike 

846
01:02:54,440 --> 01:03:00,800
that you describe Bitcoin as 
human potential energy, Can you 

847
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:06,440
expand on the metaphor like how 
how can people understand what 

848
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:11,160
you mean with that? 
Well, I I heard somebody say 

849
01:03:11,160 --> 01:03:14,960
Bitcoin is stored energy and I 
thought, no, that's that's 

850
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,360
that's wrong because you can 
take that literally. 

851
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,080
It is a human potential energy 
is because that that is exactly 

852
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:25,360
what it represents. 
You can exchange it for you. 

853
01:03:25,480 --> 01:03:29,280
You can you can exchange it for 
somebody doing something for you

854
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:35,400
and you can describe what value 
that has for for for you or 

855
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:38,920
somebody else can do it and can 
describe it and then you find 

856
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,720
you find it as a as a payment 
you it it becomes the 

857
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:52,920
representation of of of human 
energy and I like to say it's a 

858
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,560
it's human potential energy 
because it it's also all the 

859
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:07,600
energy that hasn't been spent 
yet So you have in your but with

860
01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:12,360
the Bitcoin you own you have 
something that you can exchange 

861
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:16,680
for something that needs to 
happen in the future. 

862
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,560
Yeah. 
So it's it's a potential. 

863
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:22,880
Well, it's basically what money 
should be. 

864
01:04:24,040 --> 01:04:28,160
Exactly, yeah. 
Yeah, but I, I, I I agree with 

865
01:04:28,160 --> 01:04:29,200
it. 
I think it is. 

866
01:04:29,200 --> 01:04:32,400
When I own it, it's like human 
potential energy. 

867
01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:38,720
I talked about this before, but 
like I I once heard like 

868
01:04:38,720 --> 01:04:43,280
everything you see around you, 
like literally everything you 

869
01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:50,080
see like costs energy to create 
or maintain either by other 

870
01:04:50,080 --> 01:04:51,160
people. 
No. 

871
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:55,400
Or I'm looking at a tree, you 
know, that's the sun, the water,

872
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:57,840
etcetera, right? 
Like everything costs energy to 

873
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,840
create. 
But and so like that's kind of 

874
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,400
how I see you know with money to
exchange between two parties if 

875
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:08,440
I do something for you and you 
give me you know quote UN quote 

876
01:05:08,440 --> 01:05:13,640
money in return the energy that 
I expended, you know, in the 

877
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:18,920
exchange that that that we have,
well, you built houses before, 

878
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,360
right. 
So, you know, if you build a 

879
01:05:21,360 --> 01:05:24,640
house and you use wood and you 
expend your time and energy and 

880
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:29,680
I pay you in, you know, whatever
the money is, then it is stored 

881
01:05:29,680 --> 01:05:33,640
energy right at that moment. 
I do see it as stored energy. 

882
01:05:33,920 --> 01:05:39,240
Well, or it was my, you know, 
how did you say, what did you 

883
01:05:39,240 --> 01:05:45,000
say, The human potential energy 
that I'm giving, I'm giving to 

884
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:48,760
you. 
So yeah, I I like human 

885
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:51,120
potential energy or stored 
energy, but that is what it 

886
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,240
actually should be, right? 
Because then when I when you 

887
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,840
receive that money and you want 
to spend it on something else, 

888
01:05:57,840 --> 01:06:01,160
on on anything else that cost 
energy to create or maintain, 

889
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:08,040
then that is what actually money
should be, at least in my 

890
01:06:08,640 --> 01:06:11,600
understanding. 
Or well, maybe it's opinion, but

891
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:16,080
I think we agree on on that. 
Let's call it an opinion, but 

892
01:06:16,520 --> 01:06:19,000
because definitely not everyone 
agrees in this world. 

893
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:23,680
But yeah, it's just that, right?
It's exchanging energy all the 

894
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:27,560
time and it and at the moment 
that we make an exchange you say

895
01:06:27,920 --> 01:06:31,760
you know takes two months to 
build a house and these these 

896
01:06:31,760 --> 01:06:33,800
are the materials I'm going to 
use etcetera. 

897
01:06:34,520 --> 01:06:38,800
It's X amount of units of XYZ 
money. 

898
01:06:39,280 --> 01:06:42,440
Then at that moment we have an 
equal exchange and it's it 

899
01:06:42,440 --> 01:06:45,400
should stay equal, right? 
Because you put all the energy 

900
01:06:45,400 --> 01:06:48,960
in the house and I should reward
you in money. 

901
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,360
That's also represents that same
amount of energy and that it 

902
01:06:52,360 --> 01:06:56,600
keeps that amount of energy 
towards the future for whenever 

903
01:06:56,600 --> 01:06:59,720
you want to spend it on other 
human potential. 

904
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:04,520
That's and that's why real 
estate isn't money and gold is 

905
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:10,000
Gold doesn't have a a upkeep and
a house has a upkeep. 

906
01:07:10,960 --> 01:07:15,280
Yeah, so if you exchange money 
for a house, then you're not 

907
01:07:15,280 --> 01:07:20,240
getting human potential energy. 
You've, you've you, you get 

908
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:26,720
human. 
Spent energy or your house 

909
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:29,680
leaked energy if something broke
that was built before. 

910
01:07:30,600 --> 01:07:32,760
Yeah. 
Then it kind of leaked energy 

911
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:35,960
and you have to to put that that
energy back basically. 

912
01:07:36,160 --> 01:07:39,200
Yeah. 
So how, how do you think you 

913
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:41,160
know your view on Bitcoin? 
How? 

914
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:46,040
How does it? 
What are the implications on how

915
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:51,480
it can change the economy 
compared to how we use, well, 

916
01:07:51,560 --> 01:07:53,720
the money that we are forced to 
use now? 

917
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:59,920
Well, I think what isn't being 
talked about enough is 

918
01:07:59,920 --> 01:08:03,920
efficiency and I I want to 
change that. 

919
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:08,560
I want to start a mining company
and talk about efficiency. 

920
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:14,080
Efficiency is one of the one of 
my focal focal points in in 

921
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:18,479
life. 
And I've noticed by having an 

922
01:08:18,479 --> 01:08:23,399
efficiency mindset I've been 
able to be more productive than 

923
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:27,960
other other people. 
And I'm noticing with Bitcoin 

924
01:08:28,200 --> 01:08:31,880
that there is less loss of 
energy because people's 

925
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,880
understand the the value when 
they transact it and they 

926
01:08:35,880 --> 01:08:41,000
understand that it it takes 
something of quality to be to 

927
01:08:41,000 --> 01:08:43,680
convince somebody to spend spend
it on something. 

928
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:52,279
And it isn't like it's it isn't 
like the way Fiat behaves it's 

929
01:08:52,279 --> 01:09:00,560
more like a like a flow. 
It's something that is 

930
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:06,680
constantly exchanged and it 
doesn't it doesn't allow for 

931
01:09:06,680 --> 01:09:08,000
efficiency. 
It'll it. 

932
01:09:08,200 --> 01:09:16,760
It allows for a margin to be 
chased, margin to to fall off of

933
01:09:16,760 --> 01:09:25,000
production. 
And I think Bitcoin is something

934
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:30,920
that changes people's choices so
that people become aware of what

935
01:09:30,920 --> 01:09:36,520
whatever they're wasting and 
especially time. 

936
01:09:36,640 --> 01:09:41,080
So it starts with time and then 
all all other forms of energy 

937
01:09:41,080 --> 01:09:46,720
that they that they have. 
So waste productivity is your 

938
01:09:46,720 --> 01:09:52,200
incentivize to use the to 
recapture your your waste 

939
01:09:52,680 --> 01:09:57,640
whether it's energy or things 
that have cost energy to 

940
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:02,880
produce. 
I think it's. 

941
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:08,360
I think it's about understanding
the mindset of efficiency and I 

942
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:13,000
think once people really 
understand this that just a 

943
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:18,880
whole new way of develop 
developing starts to exist for 

944
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:27,840
people. 
And I think this is the the sort

945
01:10:27,840 --> 01:10:33,560
of next renaissance that 
bitcoiners predict. 

946
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:38,600
And I think it's because of 
efficiency that people get the 

947
01:10:39,960 --> 01:10:45,760
the idea that things can be can 
be done better and more 

948
01:10:45,760 --> 01:10:50,880
efficiently. 
Yeah, I think how? 

949
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:55,040
Like how I think about it is the
most inefficient thing people 

950
01:10:55,040 --> 01:11:00,800
are doing now is trading their 
finite time or finite energy 

951
01:11:01,040 --> 01:11:06,360
expenditure in time for a reward
that can be created infinitely. 

952
01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:09,880
Right? 
The fact that when you have a 

953
01:11:09,880 --> 01:11:16,000
job or a venture and you expend 
time and energy to get rewarded 

954
01:11:17,360 --> 01:11:21,320
when you come home and you 
understand that your reward is 

955
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:26,760
being devalued every year, that 
you have to mitigate that risk 

956
01:11:26,880 --> 01:11:29,160
in some sense. 
So even take more risk right 

957
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:31,480
next to the risk you take with 
your job or your venture. 

958
01:11:31,960 --> 01:11:34,240
The fact that you have to 
medicate that is already a very 

959
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,640
inefficient thing. 
So you have you have to spend 

960
01:11:36,640 --> 01:11:40,320
even more time and energy to 
protect time and energy that you

961
01:11:40,320 --> 01:11:45,320
already spent. 
You know it's it's like just 

962
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:48,840
just only that situation I think
is something that I really think

963
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:53,000
about and also want to be more 
vocal or coherent about to show 

964
01:11:53,000 --> 01:11:57,000
people like this is what you're 
already doing. 

965
01:11:57,160 --> 01:12:03,480
And yeah, I agree with that, 
Like once you can be rewarded in

966
01:12:03,480 --> 01:12:10,200
the hardest money to ever exist,
then you also have to do more. 

967
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:14,120
You you have to put in more 
effort or be better at what you 

968
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:19,280
do to actually be eligible to 
receive that reward, right. 

969
01:12:19,280 --> 01:12:24,720
Because the people that will pay
you know that this is the 

970
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,560
hardest money to ever exist and 
so they are looking for real 

971
01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:30,680
value. 
So I think it will help people 

972
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:36,480
to actually discover what it is 
that they are meant to be 

973
01:12:36,480 --> 01:12:41,240
contributing to to society. 
You know, whatever that is from 

974
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:44,480
being a doctor to baking bread 
or whatever, like doesn't really

975
01:12:44,480 --> 01:12:48,000
matter. 
Everyone has his function, his 

976
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:55,080
or her function in in society. 
I also believe that if we have a

977
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:59,680
better reward for the human 
action, then the human action 

978
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:03,720
will be more efficient and more 
valuable because of that. 

979
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:07,800
Yeah, people just tend to tend 
to make choices. 

980
01:13:07,800 --> 01:13:13,880
Individual choices that lead to 
collective choices that create 

981
01:13:15,040 --> 01:13:20,880
abundance and innovation. 
It's just when when considering 

982
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:25,400
time, I see so many people just 
make the mistake of going for 

983
01:13:25,400 --> 01:13:33,080
security, which is a false 
representation of of efficiency 

984
01:13:33,320 --> 01:13:46,280
and what people do to negate 
what people do to battle their 

985
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:53,080
their fears and to choose for 
what they see as security. 

986
01:13:53,080 --> 01:13:56,640
For example, getting a job. 
For me, getting getting a job 

987
01:13:56,640 --> 01:14:00,960
was never, never an option 
because I I understood that it 

988
01:14:00,960 --> 01:14:04,240
was a complete sell off of my 
time. 

989
01:14:04,720 --> 01:14:12,040
And I understood the the moment 
I was supposed to go work, 

990
01:14:12,200 --> 01:14:16,080
become productive, that I had 
only two choices. 

991
01:14:16,080 --> 01:14:22,640
One was do nothing and be happy 
with nothing or become 

992
01:14:22,680 --> 01:14:31,120
productive myself and embrace 
the insecurity that it gives. 

993
01:14:31,400 --> 01:14:35,640
But the the security that a job 
gives you is a false sense of 

994
01:14:35,640 --> 01:14:41,120
security because there's nothing
secure about a job right now. 

995
01:14:41,920 --> 01:14:47,720
Billions of people have are so 
incorporated in their security 

996
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:53,760
system of working, working for a
steady stream of income and 

997
01:14:55,000 --> 01:15:02,120
having saved for a pension. 
But they don't know what keeps 

998
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:06,880
that into place and they have no
guarantees because this this 

999
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:13,360
system can can collapse and the 
result is that you've worked for

1000
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:20,680
nothing all your life and even 
somebody at the end of their 

1001
01:15:20,680 --> 01:15:26,160
career in in the Netherlands for
example if you if you die and 

1002
01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:32,320
you've saved all your career 
then you've not only paid 30 to 

1003
01:15:32,320 --> 01:15:35,080
50% taxes. 
So let's let's say you're you've

1004
01:15:35,080 --> 01:15:38,280
been, you've been well off and 
you've had a really good job in 

1005
01:15:38,280 --> 01:15:41,000
the Netherlands. 
You've been paid, you've been 

1006
01:15:41,000 --> 01:15:44,120
paying 50% taxes for for all all
your career. 

1007
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,680
That's 50% gone. 
And you have no say of what what

1008
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:49,160
the government does with that 
money. 

1009
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:57,080
And then 40% of that over for 40
year period is also gone because

1010
01:15:57,080 --> 01:16:02,480
of inflation. 
And then your son or daughter 

1011
01:16:03,000 --> 01:16:09,120
inherits your savings and then 
the state takes another 18%. 

1012
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:16,200
Yeah, so whatever whatever 
security you went for was 

1013
01:16:16,280 --> 01:16:19,200
immediately and you could 
calculate this beforehand. 

1014
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:23,240
You already know that if you 
start start doing this, then 

1015
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:30,760
you're wasting 1st 50, then then
40 and and then another 18% of 

1016
01:16:30,760 --> 01:16:34,760
your savings is is going to be 
gone and and then you. 

1017
01:16:35,040 --> 01:16:38,720
You haven't even accounted for 
what might go wrong in your life

1018
01:16:38,800 --> 01:16:41,880
that that the money then would 
be spent on. 

1019
01:16:42,400 --> 01:16:44,360
So what are you giving your 
children? 

1020
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:49,760
It's just a lot of wasted, a lot
of wasted energy. 

1021
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:53,760
And most most parents who make 
this decision consciously, out 

1022
01:16:53,760 --> 01:16:58,200
of a sense false sense of 
security are not only spending 

1023
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:01,520
their own time, they're also 
spending the time they they 

1024
01:17:01,520 --> 01:17:06,320
could spend on their kids. 
So this is also something that 

1025
01:17:06,320 --> 01:17:08,400
I'm the conscious decision that 
I made. 

1026
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:15,000
I wanted to be there for my son.
He needs to. 

1027
01:17:15,440 --> 01:17:21,200
He needs to have me in his life.
He needs to have me around in 

1028
01:17:21,200 --> 01:17:23,800
his life. 
And I can't be. 

1029
01:17:24,280 --> 01:17:27,200
I can't be gone 40 hours a week.
I cannot. 

1030
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:30,400
I have to be there to pick him 
up from school. 

1031
01:17:30,880 --> 01:17:39,400
I have maybe 20-5 hours to 
completely work on something to 

1032
01:17:39,400 --> 01:17:41,680
engulf myself in. 
That's the time. 

1033
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,440
That's the time he spent at 
school. 

1034
01:17:44,400 --> 01:17:47,840
That's the time I have to spend 
for on work. 

1035
01:17:47,880 --> 01:17:50,760
Stuff that I believe in. 
And that doesn't mean that I'm 

1036
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,880
always in his face when he is 
free. 

1037
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:59,000
No, but I want to be there when 
he looks up and he has a 

1038
01:17:59,000 --> 01:18:01,600
question. 
I want him to find me. 

1039
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:06,320
I want him to know where I am so
that he can reach me. 

1040
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:13,480
Yeah. 
And I think this time is what 

1041
01:18:13,480 --> 01:18:16,760
people are deprived of without 
them making any conscious 

1042
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:20,480
decision about it. 
I see so many of my friends, 

1043
01:18:20,480 --> 01:18:22,200
they work. 
They they work. 

1044
01:18:23,880 --> 01:18:28,680
Both parents work and and 
they're not even saving. 

1045
01:18:29,120 --> 01:18:32,960
They're just wager earners going
paycheck to paycheck and their 

1046
01:18:32,960 --> 01:18:35,640
kids are being raised by 
somebody else. 

1047
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,600
And this is something I saw when
I when I was a lot younger. 

1048
01:18:41,600 --> 01:18:43,000
I saw it. 
I saw it before me. 

1049
01:18:43,000 --> 01:18:46,080
This is where this is where it's
going and this is, this is the 

1050
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:48,960
thing that I need to battle. 
This is the thing that I need to

1051
01:18:48,960 --> 01:18:55,120
solve for myself and and I feel,
I feel strong and affirmed that 

1052
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:59,000
I was able to do it even if even
in a Fiat economy. 

1053
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:04,240
This is the the thing that most 
investors talk about or most 

1054
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:07,840
entrepreneurs talk about. 
There is still the we still have

1055
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:15,240
the ability to do something of 
value in this Fiat economy and 

1056
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:19,360
to create value and get a really
good return for it. 

1057
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:22,000
But that is, that is 
productivity. 

1058
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:29,640
And I think it takes a conscious
decision to accept that any any 

1059
01:19:29,640 --> 01:19:34,080
form of security that is given 
to you and not arranged by 

1060
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:40,120
yourself is a is a forfeit is a.
It's a false sense of security. 

1061
01:19:42,440 --> 01:19:45,320
Yeah, that's a very good point. 
We talked about this a lot on 

1062
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:48,920
the podcast, like I call it, 
outsourcing your responsibility 

1063
01:19:49,480 --> 01:19:54,640
basically, right. 
And and that's we do that in 

1064
01:19:54,640 --> 01:19:58,200
different ways. 
And of course this podcast is 

1065
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:00,000
about Bitcoin and we talk a lot 
about Bitcoin. 

1066
01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:05,840
But if you outsource your money 
basically and how you are 

1067
01:20:05,840 --> 01:20:09,480
rewarded for spending your time 
and energy, that is the main 

1068
01:20:09,840 --> 01:20:13,240
like the root cause of 
everything that comes after 

1069
01:20:13,240 --> 01:20:15,440
that, right. 
Any decision in your life where 

1070
01:20:15,440 --> 01:20:17,840
to live, build a family and you 
know. 

1071
01:20:18,640 --> 01:20:25,200
Job, venture, whatever that is. 
That is what influences the the 

1072
01:20:25,200 --> 01:20:29,760
rest of what what people do in 
their life. 

1073
01:20:30,200 --> 01:20:40,080
So how how do you see like the 
whole CBDC idea you sent me, CBD

1074
01:20:40,080 --> 01:20:41,520
CS are a Ledger. 
That's it. 

1075
01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,880
No room for commercial banks, no
distribution of power or 

1076
01:20:45,200 --> 01:20:50,600
consensus, No democracy. 
Like how how do you see this 

1077
01:20:50,600 --> 01:20:52,320
happening? 
We are of course in Europe. 

1078
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:58,840
I see at least in America, some 
states are like they have some 

1079
01:20:58,840 --> 01:21:01,120
pushback. 
Even Jerome Powell said 

1080
01:21:01,120 --> 01:21:05,440
something about no, no CBDC. 
So I think it's a different, 

1081
01:21:07,120 --> 01:21:08,720
different kind of battle over 
there. 

1082
01:21:08,720 --> 01:21:12,200
But in Europe it feels like we 
are going that way. 

1083
01:21:12,680 --> 01:21:18,920
Although the ECB says this is 
not a savings vehicle, which I 

1084
01:21:18,920 --> 01:21:21,280
find interesting because that's 
one of the characteristics of 

1085
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:23,600
money. 
But yeah, what? 

1086
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:27,800
What are your ideas there? 
So the the difference between 

1087
01:21:27,800 --> 01:21:31,200
the Fed and the ECB is that the 
Fed doesn't have a plan for it 

1088
01:21:31,200 --> 01:21:34,000
yet. 
They're not open about it at 

1089
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:38,160
least and the ECB is, is open 
about the CBDC. 

1090
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:41,800
They're going to forward, 
they're they're going forward 

1091
01:21:41,800 --> 01:21:44,520
with it. 
It's going to be in place. 

1092
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:50,640
I think it's late 2026. 
They all have the digital euro, 

1093
01:21:52,200 --> 01:22:01,360
but like like every shit coin, 
if you if you don't solve the 

1094
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:05,520
Bitcoin trilemma, then you're 
either going to end up with 

1095
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:11,440
something that is centralized or
something that is insecure. 

1096
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:14,600
And there's only one balance to 
do this correctly, and that is 

1097
01:22:14,600 --> 01:22:16,640
the way Bitcoin, Bitcoin 
behaves. 

1098
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:22,080
So Bitcoin as a protocol is in 
perfect balance between 

1099
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:26,000
scalability, decentralization 
and and security. 

1100
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:30,000
And if you if you want to 
compromise for one of these 

1101
01:22:30,000 --> 01:22:36,200
traits to get to scale better, 
then you get lightning, which 

1102
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:40,680
has less security or Liquid that
which has less decentralization 

1103
01:22:40,760 --> 01:22:46,400
or Federated means which are 
less decentralized. 

1104
01:22:47,680 --> 01:22:51,360
So those are compromises that 
you can make and compromises you

1105
01:22:51,360 --> 01:22:54,680
can't make on the base layer. 
That's the whole point of of 

1106
01:22:54,680 --> 01:23:00,520
having a base layer that is 
fixed and and there's enough in 

1107
01:23:00,600 --> 01:23:05,800
incentive to keep this this way.
And as long as as long as the 

1108
01:23:05,800 --> 01:23:08,920
hash rate keeps going up, I have
confidence that Bitcoin will 

1109
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:17,960
manifest in this way. 
But a CBDC doesn't have a 

1110
01:23:18,120 --> 01:23:21,840
balanced answer to the Bitcoin 
trilemma. 

1111
01:23:22,200 --> 01:23:31,680
So the CBDC will always be just 
a central Ledger and if you 

1112
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,080
understand where the central 
Ledger is, that is something 

1113
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:39,200
completely different from what 
commercial banks have. 

1114
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:43,520
Commercial banks have accounts 
and that's a decentralized 

1115
01:23:43,520 --> 01:23:46,640
Ledger. 
It's not distributed, 

1116
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:50,200
decentralized. 
It's not in a in a beautiful way

1117
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:55,760
decentralized, but there is no 
central control over what is, 

1118
01:23:55,760 --> 01:24:02,080
what amount is in which account,
and this is also the reason why 

1119
01:24:02,080 --> 01:24:06,200
it's so, so good for fraud. 
There are many ways to have your

1120
01:24:06,200 --> 01:24:11,120
bookkeeping because it's only 
double entry bookkeeping to be 

1121
01:24:11,120 --> 01:24:18,920
done creatively so that your 
your bookkeeping doesn't have to

1122
01:24:18,920 --> 01:24:22,600
match my bookkeeping. 
So if we if we keep sending each

1123
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:28,200
other invoices with Fiat, 
there's there's no centralized 

1124
01:24:28,200 --> 01:24:33,880
way to control who owns what. 
I can have a different 

1125
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:38,120
bookkeeping and that that sort 
of needs to match and that the 

1126
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:45,680
the Dutch tax authority will 
accept discrepancies and they 

1127
01:24:45,680 --> 01:24:47,920
will accept it because they have
no control over it. 

1128
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,960
And this is something that a 
CBDC can can solve. 

1129
01:24:51,960 --> 01:24:55,760
And this is this is also why the
central central bank the ECB 

1130
01:24:55,760 --> 01:25:02,520
wants wants this. 
And then another another 

1131
01:25:02,520 --> 01:25:06,440
consequence of this is if they 
have a central Ledger and all 

1132
01:25:06,440 --> 01:25:10,040
the accounts are with the ECB 
then what is a commercial bank, 

1133
01:25:10,640 --> 01:25:12,160
It doesn't need to exist 
anymore. 

1134
01:25:12,960 --> 01:25:16,040
So what are they, what are they 
getting rid of? 

1135
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:19,040
And I say they central banks, 
what are central banks getting 

1136
01:25:19,040 --> 01:25:23,800
rid of at the moment? 
That's what I think is happening

1137
01:25:23,800 --> 01:25:26,480
right now with the higher rates.
They're getting rid of 

1138
01:25:26,680 --> 01:25:30,640
commercial banks and they're not
going to bail out the commercial

1139
01:25:30,640 --> 01:25:33,560
banks. 
And that's why I'm I'm also not 

1140
01:25:35,080 --> 01:25:38,160
conclusive about what the Fed is
doing. 

1141
01:25:38,160 --> 01:25:42,480
I think they have a new secret 
man mandate and that is to to 

1142
01:25:43,080 --> 01:25:46,840
get to a point where they have 
their new world order where they

1143
01:25:46,840 --> 01:25:54,520
have their their new money for 
the for the world which which is

1144
01:25:54,520 --> 01:26:00,920
a CBDCA Central, a central 
Ledger controlled by one one 

1145
01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:06,560
single authority. 
And the the problem that happens

1146
01:26:06,560 --> 01:26:10,280
is that this is just another 
policy. 

1147
01:26:11,440 --> 01:26:17,680
And what what I think is 
laughable about it is if you do 

1148
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:21,400
this and Bitcoin doesn't exist, 
then you still don't have a 

1149
01:26:21,400 --> 01:26:30,160
foolproof way to to to treat 
something like the exchange of 

1150
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:34,640
gold. 
There will always be a search 

1151
01:26:34,640 --> 01:26:41,680
for people to deal with the 
economic circumstances that they

1152
01:26:42,120 --> 01:26:48,400
wished they had a better store 
of value or a better means of 

1153
01:26:48,400 --> 01:26:52,000
exchange to solve the situation 
they're in. 

1154
01:26:52,000 --> 01:26:57,240
And if you if you present people
with a true worthless money like

1155
01:26:57,240 --> 01:27:02,880
a CBDC, the first people to 
notice are the entrepreneurs and

1156
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:06,400
they're going to stop. 
They're going to stop asking for

1157
01:27:06,400 --> 01:27:11,240
that as a payment. 
And there is no way to keep this

1158
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:17,520
economy rolling with a CBDC. 
There's just and, and I say 

1159
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:21,560
this, I say this with with 
certainty, out of conviction. 

1160
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:27,400
Maybe, maybe this is an 
ideology, but I think it isn't. 

1161
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:34,080
I think based on empirical 
evidence of studying money 

1162
01:27:34,080 --> 01:27:38,920
systems of of the of the past, 
we can see that there has never 

1163
01:27:38,920 --> 01:27:43,480
been the installment of a of a 
of a non backed currency. 

1164
01:27:44,520 --> 01:27:49,240
And a currency doesn't need 
intrinsic value, it just needs 

1165
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:51,920
to be backed by something when 
when installed. 

1166
01:27:52,160 --> 01:28:00,560
And in the case of Bitcoin, it 
is proof of work and also proof 

1167
01:28:00,600 --> 01:28:03,400
proof of verification. 
Yeah, value but. 

1168
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:05,920
It's just approvable being 
provable. 

1169
01:28:05,920 --> 01:28:07,720
Verifiable. 
Yeah, so it has. 

1170
01:28:08,000 --> 01:28:15,280
It has value propositions that 
match its its value and and CBDC

1171
01:28:15,800 --> 01:28:18,720
will not be able to do that for 
itself. 

1172
01:28:19,480 --> 01:28:29,200
The the dollar at the moment is 
decoupled from oil for a large 

1173
01:28:29,200 --> 01:28:33,000
part in it's in transition to 
becoming worthless. 

1174
01:28:33,480 --> 01:28:38,720
And the only thing that keeps 
the dollar of any value as a 

1175
01:28:38,720 --> 01:28:43,960
means of exchange is confidence.
So at the moment the. 

1176
01:28:44,960 --> 01:28:48,800
Basically. 
Well yeah it's it's also just 

1177
01:28:48,800 --> 01:28:53,920
the people walk around with 
bills in their pockets or a 

1178
01:28:53,920 --> 01:28:55,760
number on their bank account and
they know. 

1179
01:28:56,120 --> 01:29:00,200
They know it's redeemable for 
what what the price tag is. 

1180
01:29:01,920 --> 01:29:05,200
This is this is confidence. 
The people have confidence that 

1181
01:29:05,200 --> 01:29:09,040
their value is stored over at 
least a long enough time for 

1182
01:29:09,040 --> 01:29:12,560
them to spend it. 
But if this changes then the 

1183
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:18,520
card, the House of Cards falls 
and and if you then try to bill 

1184
01:29:18,520 --> 01:29:24,440
in the people with a CBDC to 
come in to be the savior of the 

1185
01:29:24,440 --> 01:29:29,000
economy with the CBDC, it's only
a matter of time that the people

1186
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:34,760
don't see that the ball is 
actually not rolling anymore and

1187
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:38,080
and that's going to be a 
disaster. 

1188
01:29:38,120 --> 01:29:41,760
So if they do this, I think it's
it's it's going to be disaster. 

1189
01:29:42,640 --> 01:29:44,680
Yeah. 
Well I said fear because it's 

1190
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:50,360
hard to accept that it that the 
money is not real, right. 

1191
01:29:50,360 --> 01:29:54,760
That's what you see in your bank
account is not it's not actually

1192
01:29:55,240 --> 01:29:58,000
actually there that's kind of 
why I said fair. 

1193
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:00,800
But but yeah it's it's still 
that trust, right. 

1194
01:30:00,800 --> 01:30:04,840
But the verifiability I think is
the main part and as you said, I

1195
01:30:04,840 --> 01:30:08,640
like that about, you know, CBDC 
is just another another policy, 

1196
01:30:08,640 --> 01:30:12,680
but you cannot verify it like 
it's again all talk, no walk, 

1197
01:30:12,680 --> 01:30:19,480
right, where in Bitcoin. 
It's the verifiability that at 

1198
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:24,160
least gives you more information
on making a decision if you 

1199
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:33,720
should trust it for you know, 
your option to save your energy.

1200
01:30:33,720 --> 01:30:35,720
And I think that's it like it 
is. 

1201
01:30:36,440 --> 01:30:39,720
It is advertised in a certain 
way, but you can also verify it 

1202
01:30:39,720 --> 01:30:44,080
for yourself, right? 
And every other form or type of 

1203
01:30:44,080 --> 01:30:49,360
money, same as the CBD CS, it's 
only advertised, right. 

1204
01:30:49,840 --> 01:30:52,280
When you see people talk about, 
it's like it's going to be more 

1205
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,960
inclusive. 
It's just, you know, cash. 

1206
01:30:54,960 --> 01:30:56,920
But digital, it's just, it's all
talk. 

1207
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:02,320
It's it's there's no options to 
actually verify it and make a 

1208
01:31:02,320 --> 01:31:06,200
conscious choice whether you 
should adopt it or not. 

1209
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:10,800
And I think that is what Bitcoin
constantly shows. 

1210
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:12,640
I mean it's the same with the 
halving, right? 

1211
01:31:12,640 --> 01:31:17,200
The halving is just like, hey, 
this is the monetary policy is 

1212
01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:19,160
advertised. 
See, it's still working. 

1213
01:31:19,280 --> 01:31:22,280
I think that is what what it 
shows, right? 

1214
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,000
And every four year, every four 
years, it does. 

1215
01:31:25,320 --> 01:31:29,720
And that doesn't need marketing,
whereas the CBDC is going to be 

1216
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:34,120
heavily marketed into exactly 
into the market it needs to be. 

1217
01:31:34,120 --> 01:31:39,680
Installed if you have to. 
I told my son this like we were 

1218
01:31:39,680 --> 01:31:41,160
sitting in the car and you heard
a commercial. 

1219
01:31:41,160 --> 01:31:43,680
He's like, is it what they say 
is, is it true what they say? 

1220
01:31:44,960 --> 01:31:48,280
I said, well, if you have to 
make advertisement for it, 

1221
01:31:48,360 --> 01:31:50,080
probably not. 
You know, that's not totally 

1222
01:31:50,080 --> 01:31:51,640
true. 
But I love to instill that. 

1223
01:31:53,200 --> 01:31:57,200
Like, yeah, well, to to round it
up because I have to pick him up

1224
01:31:57,360 --> 01:32:00,120
from school. 
You know, I asked everyone, you 

1225
01:32:00,120 --> 01:32:02,040
know, what is a core belief you 
will never let go. 

1226
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:04,760
And you already sent me the 
following. 

1227
01:32:05,320 --> 01:32:08,160
I don't have a belief or I tried
to get rid of beliefs. 

1228
01:32:08,640 --> 01:32:12,120
Ideology is becoming redundant. 
I have plausible outcomes and 

1229
01:32:12,120 --> 01:32:15,360
crazy ideas and I can switch 
between all that without being 

1230
01:32:15,360 --> 01:32:17,600
married to any of it. 
I think we talked about this a 

1231
01:32:17,600 --> 01:32:19,840
lot already, but I do want to 
ask you. 

1232
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:24,840
There must be something you 
adhere to or or practice that 

1233
01:32:25,240 --> 01:32:36,200
you find valuable in your life. 
I think I could answer that with

1234
01:32:36,680 --> 01:32:43,600
my my faith in humans. 
Even though I can see that 

1235
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:50,400
humans have a good in them, I 
see it in in the way people look

1236
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:52,760
at each other and the way people
treat each other. 

1237
01:32:53,080 --> 01:32:57,080
If they have abundance, they 
will treat each other really 

1238
01:32:57,080 --> 01:33:03,360
nicely and I think. 
But I think if I have an 

1239
01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:06,080
ideology, it is my faith in 
mankind. 

1240
01:33:08,880 --> 01:33:11,840
Great ending. 
Thanks man. 

1241
01:33:11,880 --> 01:33:14,160
Last that we finally recorded 
something. 

1242
01:33:15,640 --> 01:33:20,920
I will link to your ex profile 
Noster profile in the show notes

1243
01:33:20,920 --> 01:33:25,440
so people can follow you and 
your thoughts and I think I see 

1244
01:33:25,440 --> 01:33:27,280
you in a few days. 
We go for lunch. 

1245
01:33:27,360 --> 01:33:29,040
Yeah, awesome. 
Thank you. 

1246
01:33:29,040 --> 01:33:32,240
Thank you too for talking to me.
Awesome man. 

1247
01:33:32,600 --> 01:33:34,000
Talk soon. 
See ya. 

1248
01:33:34,440 --> 01:33:37,200
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, it would be amazing 

1249
01:33:37,200 --> 01:33:40,040
if you could rate, review and 
subscribe on the podcast 

1250
01:33:40,040 --> 01:33:42,960
platform of your choice. 
It will help us educate more 

1251
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:45,080
millennials on the importance of
Bitcoin. 

1252
01:33:45,360 --> 01:33:47,080
You can follow and connect with 
me on Twitter. 

1253
01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:51,760
I'm Bram K that's at BR AM K and
if you are or know someone who 

1254
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:54,320
has an interesting perspective 
on Bitcoin that's worth sharing,

1255
01:33:54,320 --> 01:33:56,640
hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1256
01:33:56,640 --> 01:33:58,520
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1257
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:00,200
hope you'll be here for the next
episode. 

1258
01:34:00,520 --> 01:34:01,760
Thanks for listening. 
Bye.