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I love that we talked for two 
hours last time and we didn't 

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really record and I messed up, 
so I'm happy we're back. 

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But yeah, yesterday I talked for
almost 2 hours with Michael 

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Dunworth. 
Right. 

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Brain fried. 
Amazing. 

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Like I love I he he just goes 
all over the place and I'm 

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trying to follow and you know 
it's just very interesting way 

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of thinking and very interesting
brain you know and I love that 

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about you know having a podcast 
and I think you have the same 

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experience. 
Like it's just fun to talk to 

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people in the same space and 
discover their thoughts and 

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their journeys and how they well
in your case were once bitten 

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and stayed or went further down 
the rabbit hole. 

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Yeah, it's just super cool. 
And so it's fun to to make like,

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a dual episode like this, right?
It's daily therapy I find 

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talking to a bitcoiner. 
I agree. 

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Well for this podcast we yeah, I
think you invited me but we were

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like let's let's just make a 
dual episode and we do it on our

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our both of our channels trying 
to think about because we don't 

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want to replicate our previous 
conversation or try to to to do 

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that. 
But I think and what is fun to 

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share like I I I wanted to hear 
about like your journey into 

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into Bitcoin and and of course 
we talked about that a bit but 

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maybe that's like a nice place 
to start or something. 

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I don't know what's your, What's
your thought? 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
Yeah, I can give the the Cliff 

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notes. 
I started in financial markets 

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at the age of 19 in foreign 
exchange markets on the spot 

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dollar market desk. 
In London in 1995 and by 1999 I 

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had the opportunity to to move 
out to Singapore, to carry on my

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career out there, to further my 
career in a slightly different 

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area. 
It was in foreign exchange 

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options and that was, that was 
an incredible experience. 

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What was supposed to be a few 
years turned into 15 years and 

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my wife and I got married over 
the excuse me. 

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We moved over there together 
from the UK and we came back and

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we got married. 
But we had all of our kids over 

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there, our four children. 
And in 2013 I read a book called

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The Four Hour Workweek by Tim 
Ferriss, which made me think 

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about life completely 
differently. 

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And I realized that I had 
painted myself into a corner, 

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into a career which I thought 
was a great career, was paying 

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great money. 
And I thought I'd, you know, I 

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was winning at the game of life.
And realized I was losing. 

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I was losing everything. 
I was losing my time. 

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I was losing my My energy was 
being expended because being 

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completely corralled by somebody
else for somebody else's gain. 

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My kids were losing because the 
father wasn't around. 

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Hardly ever my wife was losing 
because I wasn't there to help 

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support the family. 
And I was losing because 

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mentally, I thought I was doing 
absolutely everything I could to

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support the family, everything I
could to build a good career, 

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Everything I could to follow 
this social construct of keep 

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your head down, do good work, 
get a job, get your promotion, 

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climb the corporate ladder, get 
the 2.4 kids, get the white 

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picket fence. 
You know, I, you know, I was 

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doing all that stuff. 
It was all good and I was good 

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at it. 
But no. 

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Way in the world where we what 
you could ever, you know, 

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describe as, you know, fully 
content. 

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There was always worries, there 
was always stress, There was 

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always, you know, anxiety. 
We're always running 1000 miles 

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an hour just to stand still. 
Did you feel free if you look 

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back? 
Did you feel free if you look? 

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Back. 
No, no. 

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Completely trapped. 
Totally in that moment also or 

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only when you reflect. 
No, in that moment too. 

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I knew we were trapped. 
I knew there was, you know, I 

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was just thinking, daydreaming 
10/15/20 years ahead when I 

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could finally walk away, do the 
big retirement thing. 

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Finally the time would be mine. 
Then I could spend my time on 

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the golf course and whatever 
else. 

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But guess what? 
The kids have begun and I 

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wouldn't have seen them. 
And this is what many people. 

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Suffer with, like, the biggest 
regrets in life as as they even 

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come to like 50 or 60. 
It's like, huh, I didn't spend 

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any time with my kids. 
Wow. 

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But it's even worse when you hit
your deathbed and you know 

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you're reflecting on your life 
and you realize how your time on

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this planet had been completely 
controlled since the age of 3-4 

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or five when you entered into 
the, you know, the schooling 

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system. 
That's it. 

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It's all over. 
It's all over from there. 

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Like somebody else is running 
your time and you are not free 

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and you're not able to make your
own decisions or your choices. 

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You're not allowed to have free 
thoughts, you're not allowed to 

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spare time. 
And you're you're certainly not 

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allowed to express your 
creativity. 

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You know, you, you're you're 
shackled into that system of the

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education system, 1520 years and
then straight into a corporate 

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role if you're lucky. 
Because that's all the kids want

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to do. 
They want to get out there, 

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become. 
Bankers, lawyers, surgeons, 

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doctors, you know, all the big 
fancy jobs. 

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Nobody wants to take the risk, 
you know, perceived risk of 

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starting their own thing, 
starting their own business, 

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expressing their creativity, 
filling a a gap in the market. 

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No, no, no. 
That's just for those weirder 

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entrepreneurs. 
You know, there's only a few of 

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those amongst us, right? 
There's probably one in 100. 

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They know we all are. 
This is our natural. 

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Our natural state is to be 
entrepreneurial. 

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Our natural state as human 
beings is to solve problems with

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problem solving machines and 
this gets beaten out of us. 

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And so there I was reading this 
book, I'm like, fuck I I can't 

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have this. 
You know, I was 36. 

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I I can't sit here for another 
20 years just wishing this away.

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And what happens? 
Even if I get I might get fired 

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in 18 months time. 
Who knows? 

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Who knows what you know. 
Market conditions could happen. 

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How many people lost their jobs 
between 2020 and 2022? 

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No fault of their own. 
Just gone. 

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Thank you. 
See you later. 

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But our business has to close, 
and that's the end of your job. 

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You did everything right up 
until that point. 

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Then you got rug bull, you know,
from situations that you just 

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couldn't control. 
So I feel that this is a team, 

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right? 
The team of understanding the 

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different external for forces 
that control your life, but also

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your thinking, right? 
And that once you start peeling 

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away that then you discover all 
these things where you are 

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actually not even aware of the 
fact that you were unaware that 

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you were participating in 
something that you actually or 

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never thought about. 
Like where did I sign up for 

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this right? 
Or why? 

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Why do I think this? 
And also where some people 

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realize, well, what I think 
about this is the total opposite

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of of what I was participating 
in, right? 

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I I see that as a common theme 
that, that once you see that, 

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you know, all other people are 
no different than you. 

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Yeah. 
Why are they controlling my 

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life? 
You know why? 

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Why are there things in place 
that control my life? 

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And a great example of this, of 
how we've had the world pulled 

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over our eyes to engage in in in
behaviors that we would never 

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even. 
Ever consider but now think is 

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just commonplace and perfectly 
fine. 

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And that would be so. 
A perfect example of this is, 

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you know, taking out a loan or a
mortgage to buy a property now. 

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We that's the only way you can 
buy a property, right? 

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That's the literally that we've 
been backed into the corner to 

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do this and everybody thinks 
that is perfectly OK. 

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This is a perfectly OK way to 
behave, and you get so. 

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Would you willingly debase the 
purchasing power of everybody 

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else around you by 
counterfeiting money into the 

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system? 
Well, I would say no, you 

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wouldn't, because you're a good 
human being. 

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Everybody listening or watching.
This is a good human being. 

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But that's literally what you 
are doing, all of us are doing 

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when we enter into these 
agreements with the banks to 

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take out mortgage for a house or
a loan for a car or a loan, buy 

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something on finance, you know, 
for your house and you so for 

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whatever it is. 
And So what, what is happening 

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there when you when you take out
that loan, you enter into that 

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mortgage agreement, you validate
the game that they are playing 

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exactly right. 
Yeah, you you validate you green

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light, the bank to counterfeit 
money on your behalf into the 

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system, which inflates the 
monetary supply which debases 

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the purchasing power of 
everybody else around you. 

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And the default answer to this 
from most people is. 

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Well, everybody else is doing 
it, so why shouldn't I do that? 

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You know, So you now you enter 
into this zero sum game, and we 

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we every time we do that, we are
perpetually inflating the 

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monetary supply, which is 
debasing the purchasing power of

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our currency, which is pushing 
the prices of everything else 

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that we need up against us. 
We've been tricked into it. 

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00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,240
It's very clever. 
Very clever. 

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So now who owns all of the 
property? 

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100 years ago, 150 years ago or 
two or three generations ago, 

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the people, people would have 
owned their own property. 

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Sure, they were paying land tax 
and we can get into whether or 

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that you ever own anything, but 
they would have owned the 

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property right until this idea 
of let's flood the market with 

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cheap money and cheap mortgages.
So now somebody can afford. 

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A nicer house or a better house.
So, but the only way they can 

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afford that is to take the loan 
and the money from the bank. 

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So who owns the property now? 
All the banks. 

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00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,920
Very few people own their own 
property. 

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So we've had this transfer of 
ownership from property from 

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00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:23,320
homeowners. 
Maybe your, you know, great 

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00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:25,520
grandfather owned his actual 
house. 

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00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,320
Then your grandfather maybe 
owned that. 

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00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:28,720
But then your mum and dad 
didn't. 

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And then you certainly won't. 
So it's been a gradual, gradual 

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March of this transfer of 
ownership of private property 

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from the people who actually 
need the roofs over their heads 

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to the banks. 
And how do the banks get that? 

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00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,360
Well, they offer you this 
dangled carrot and then you 

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00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,320
enter into this contract of, 
well, we need a deposit of real 

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00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:57,360
money that you have actually 
expended energy to get, yes? 

191
00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:00,760
€50,000, let's say your life 
savings. 

192
00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,680
I'll tell you what, you give us 
your life savings, we'll 

193
00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:08,880
counterfeit the rest, and then 
you pay us interest on the 

194
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,960
counterfeit money. 
How does that sound? 

195
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,640
Like they make double money. 
Almost, yeah. 

196
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,440
Right. 
Yeah, that that is pure usury 

197
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:20,240
in, in the purest form of usury.
That is criminal. 

198
00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,440
That is immoral. 
That is illegal. 

199
00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,080
But somehow they've managed to 
write. 

200
00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,040
Loopholes around the legalities 
of this and tricked everybody 

201
00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:39,360
into participating in this awful
game of 0 sum outcome where 

202
00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,800
everybody ends up poorer, 
including you. 

203
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:45,520
You think you've got the house, 
but you don't. 

204
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,240
And they can take it back 
whenever they want and they can 

205
00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:50,360
change the interest rates on you
whenever they want. 

206
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:54,240
And is this as simple as, like, 
not teaching you? 

207
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:58,320
Because I think you can only 
come to this realization. 

208
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,320
I also can think about like 
people who listen to this. 

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00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,160
And I mean I was one of those 
people. 

210
00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:08,160
So you know, you you think 
about, no, this could not be 

211
00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:09,440
that bad, right. 
It. 

212
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,160
No that, you know, this sounds 
very, very bad. 

213
00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:16,400
Like it's really it's a complete
180 from the perception that I 

214
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,600
think most people have as to how
it works, right. 

215
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,600
Yeah, of course there's loans 
and then I can I can buy a house

216
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:24,720
because everyone needs a house, 
etcetera, right. 

217
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:31,840
But once you if, if, if you 
don't know it, right, then what 

218
00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,920
you just said sounds very 
foreign, right? 

219
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,960
Sounds very far away. 
And also also as you said, 

220
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:40,960
right? 
Like, yeah, I'm a if you think 

221
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,360
of yourself that, that you're a 
good human being and you would 

222
00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:50,280
never exploit a system if you 
found like a way to corrupt it, 

223
00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,720
the reality, and it's not an 
opinion, is that other people 

224
00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,840
do, right? 
So just because you think that 

225
00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,680
you would never do that because 
you think you're righteous 

226
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,360
doesn't mean that other people 
would. 

227
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,040
And of course people would. 
I mean you have kids. 

228
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,800
I have a kid like the whole self
preservation thing. 

229
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,760
Like give me from first. 
That's just in everyone, right? 

230
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,640
And I feel like it's not 
acknowledging that. 

231
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,320
Yeah. 
You're kind of fooling yourself 

232
00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,920
in a sense, right. 
Just because you don't want to 

233
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,760
adopt that reality. 
That's that's where you stay in,

234
00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,480
well, almost dreamland in a 
sense that you're just, like, 

235
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:33,960
unaware of how how it actually 
works, Right. 

236
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,440
And I mean, like, when I say I 
was the same, like I was 30 and 

237
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,480
I was working at a bank and I 
had a mortgage and I had no clue

238
00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,760
how it works. 
And then I had a colleague who 

239
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,120
who told me, do you, did you 
know that the money in the bank 

240
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,040
is not yours? 
And I said, sorry, what? 

241
00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:50,760
And then we had a lunch for an 
hour and he explained to me 

242
00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:54,800
like, how how banking works. 
And then I thought, well, that's

243
00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:56,640
a great business model for 
banks. 

244
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,400
But I'm an idiot. 
Like, I felt I was like, happy 

245
00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,080
to learn. 
But also like, dude, like you're

246
00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,680
participating in a system that 
you have no, you don't even know

247
00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:10,480
how how this works and you're 
happy with the house. 

248
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,080
But on the other side, as you 
mentioned like you were also 

249
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,680
trapped in a sense in, in an 
agreement that yeah, that you 

250
00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,200
just don't understand, you know,
and I I feel that like when when

251
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,560
you think about that more and 
more and more than at one point 

252
00:14:25,560 --> 00:14:29,840
you feel you understand that 
that is taking away your, your 

253
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,040
sovereignty and freedom in a 
sense, right. 

254
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:38,000
Because if you, if you go 
further in getting loans or you 

255
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,200
well you have a house, you have 
kids or maybe some people lease 

256
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:46,160
a car or whatever like you, you 
were just further down that path

257
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:51,640
and it's also way harder to 
actually backtrack that and and 

258
00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,400
get out of that, right? 
What was your role within the 

259
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,840
bank? 
I was working as? 

260
00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,440
So my background is in like 
building start-ups and new 

261
00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,520
digital businesses. 
So I was working in like the 

262
00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,720
innovation department guiding, 
helping teams to explore new 

263
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,240
ideas and build them out, 
etcetera. 

264
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,320
But I was so in different 
business lines, they had 

265
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,480
different innovation teams and I
was at risk. 

266
00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:23,000
So there were all these PhD 
economic people who were working

267
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,680
in Excel every day to make 
reports for the European Central

268
00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:30,480
Bank, which was also just a real
eye opener, right? 

269
00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:36,720
Like just seeing super smart 
people making a report that was 

270
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,360
always, you know you have a 
green, orange, red. 

271
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,760
It was always orange, right 
orange. 

272
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:47,480
But and then some explainer like
it it it was really like the 

273
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:49,960
cubicle thing where people were 
just sitting down and like doing

274
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,480
and I always thought. 
What a waste of what? 

275
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,280
A waste of brain power and life.
Yeah, just energy, right? 

276
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:57,920
Yeah. 
And. 

277
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:01,120
And at one point I walked around
with the head of Risk and he 

278
00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:05,720
told me if I send all these 
people home, nothing's going to 

279
00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:09,760
break. 
Because you know, if you get 

280
00:16:09,760 --> 00:16:13,880
your, your, your, your loan 
payment, like first thing you 

281
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,120
pay for is your house. 
So there are almost no defaults 

282
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,000
on mortgages and stuff like 
that. 

283
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,040
Yeah, only if people lose their 
jobs, some really bad stuff 

284
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,360
happens. 
But in general, once people 

285
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:30,000
commit to that, then, you know, 
that's that's the first thing 

286
00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:33,680
they pay every month, obviously.
And so then I also thought, 

287
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,720
well, why are these people here?
And then he explained to me 

288
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,600
while they're making the the 
report, right. 

289
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,680
Yeah, it's just a sad, sad 
scene. 

290
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,480
So that that time for me was 
really interesting to learn 

291
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:48,040
about how it actually worked, 
actually realizing that I had no

292
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:49,960
clue and that I was 
participating in something that 

293
00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:53,000
I, yeah, just did not 
understand. 

294
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,600
And then also seeing these 
people who were obviously very 

295
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,960
smart, but yeah, chose to be in 
this career, as you also said. 

296
00:16:59,960 --> 00:17:02,480
Right. 
And then yeah, you see, like 

297
00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,079
these bosses, like the golden 
cage and banking, like all that 

298
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:07,640
stuff is real. 
Like, I I met people at two 

299
00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,880
houses in a boat. 
And then we're like, yeah, I'm 

300
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,040
not going to fix anything. 
I'm not going to stick my head 

301
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,960
out, you know, I don't want to 
have my head chopped off inside 

302
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,359
here. 
Like, I don't, I don't want to 

303
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:20,880
be fired because I have all 
these other obligations and 

304
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,680
loans and stuff. 
And so it's kind of like I think

305
00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:27,040
it can start with the right 
incentives, right. 

306
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:29,320
If you start your career you 
want to contribute to something 

307
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:34,200
but along the way the the, the 
reward system changes that to 

308
00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:38,200
very yeah prefers it turns 
around basically. 

309
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:45,160
So that's what made you get 
there will also if you continue 

310
00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,480
like that, it will also make 
sure you you you get removed 

311
00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:52,200
from that place so you stop 
being you know the different 

312
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,360
thinker or the innovator or the 
whatever because then yeah, it's

313
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:00,960
not, it's unsafe to do that 
basically. 

314
00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,960
And you're never yourself. 
That's also set, right? 

315
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:07,320
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

316
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,400
Because you're always wearing a 
mask. 

317
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,600
You you you always try it. 
I didn't wear the suit, but 

318
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,680
yeah, the suit is is I think the
visual example of that. 

319
00:18:17,120 --> 00:18:22,000
Yeah, in a sense, you you can't.
You can't be yourself because 

320
00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,320
you get moulded by the people 
and the incentive structure 

321
00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:30,800
around you and you have to 
become a chameleon of sorts to 

322
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,680
you're you're one person with 
your peers, you're another 

323
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,560
person with your customers, 
you're another person with your 

324
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:44,280
higher ups then just being 
yourself like you know, showing 

325
00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:46,960
up every day and being yourself 
and adding value to something 

326
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,160
that you actually truly believe 
in instead. 

327
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:54,520
You're adding value to something
just to get by, and like, 

328
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,600
there's the psychological drain 
of that. 

329
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,320
People talk about burnouts all 
of the time and it's just 

330
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:05,200
because you're doing the same 
monotonous bullshit every day 

331
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:09,080
that you are not finding any 
kind of value in. 

332
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:16,000
And that is also not challenging
because it's people can play 

333
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:18,960
around, you know, these 
political games and like just 

334
00:19:19,120 --> 00:19:23,360
fuck around basically because 
the business model of this is so

335
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,880
damn good, right? 
Like it's fascinating that you 

336
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:32,000
have banks with thousands of 
employees where you know if you 

337
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,800
just have to manage the pile of 
money that you loan out and 

338
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:39,440
calculate the risk and do you 
know the payments etcetera. 

339
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:45,360
I don't think you need more than
100 people to run just you know 

340
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:49,360
multi billion mortgage 
portfolio, right. 

341
00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:53,840
Like it's it's a very simple 
business model, very clear and I

342
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:59,480
think on one side to be honest 
like it does the the origin of 

343
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,320
banks does make sense to me. 
You know if it's credits for 

344
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:06,600
businesses, you know where if if
they have a good projection 

345
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:10,280
towards the future. 
But they need a loan, which is 

346
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,080
money, you know, energy from the
future right now. 

347
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,440
To, you know, accelerate their 
journey. 

348
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:17,560
I mean like I, I, I can agree 
with that. 

349
00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,800
Like that's I think that's a 
great function. 

350
00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:26,000
I think when you take the step 
to mortgages and houses like I 

351
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:28,560
think that's already where it 
gets a bit murky, right, because

352
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,720
it's the same model. 
But then if you start to like 

353
00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:36,360
financialize housing, which is I
don't know is that the number 2 

354
00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,920
human right or something, you 
know that that already gets 

355
00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,880
murky, right? 
And that then, you know, 

356
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,520
different banks with different 
piles of money start to compete 

357
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,080
with each other based on the 
rates and the service and blah 

358
00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,280
blah. 
I don't know that that already 

359
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,240
starts to become kind of 
unethical if you want to go 

360
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:58,080
there, right? 
But then because it's such good 

361
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:05,800
money, these banks instead of 
just being a creditors, they 

362
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,440
start to become these 
institutions and you can you 

363
00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,720
know do investing and there's a 
high net worth white glove 

364
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:17,480
service Like they they do all 
this other stuff which is 

365
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,840
basically being paid for by the 
profits of all the loans. 

366
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,360
And that's where kind of like 
this, the business is so good. 

367
00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:26,760
And that's why people can mess 
around, you know, because the 

368
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,320
money will be made anyway, Like 
if you, if you fuck up along the

369
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,960
way, but you can, but you're 
politically gifted, then you can

370
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:39,720
stick around, you know, and then
you can get the two houses in 

371
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,920
the boat and whatever. 
So it's kind of like when I 

372
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:43,120
walked around there, it was 
funny. 

373
00:21:43,120 --> 00:21:47,280
Like, I was also, I worked there
as a freelancer and so I had a 

374
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:51,200
MacBook sneakers and AT shirt 
and tattoos. 

375
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,200
And so 50% was like, who's that?
I'm not going to listen to him. 

376
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:57,120
And the other 50% was like, oh, 
he's external. 

377
00:21:57,120 --> 00:21:59,440
Maybe I should listen to him, 
you know, it's really fun. 

378
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:05,000
So I loved being in that space 
just to experience it right. 

379
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,120
Like everyone has a picture of 
it and how that is. 

380
00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:10,720
So I, I, I and I also learned a 
lot you know about communication

381
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,120
and stuff like that. 
But it was just it's just yes, 

382
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,400
fascinating. 
It's fascinating to see and also

383
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:20,400
to that in in only worked well a
total four years in banking. 

384
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,240
But like in a short period of 
time you see that game, like 

385
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,640
within two weeks, you understand
that there's people who are just

386
00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,720
playing the internal game and 
creating nothing, nothing of 

387
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:34,240
value basically. 
And they're just, yeah, just 

388
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,280
because there's so much money 
they can play the game. 

389
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,680
It's actually, that's very sad, 
right? 

390
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,760
And and funny because in my like
space of work, we had like all 

391
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,920
these new ideas, right? 
And some failed and some would 

392
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:48,960
continue. 
And then my argument all the 

393
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,120
time was, well, would you put 
your own money into this if I 

394
00:22:52,120 --> 00:22:53,960
asked you for 100K of your own 
money right now? 

395
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,080
Like, would you put that money 
into this? 

396
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,400
And obviously a lot of the 
answers were like, no. 

397
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,000
And then I said, but well, why 
would you put 100K of the bank 

398
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,200
in it? 
Like it's not, yeah, that's not 

399
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,160
my money, you know, And that's 
where a lot of, I think waste 

400
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,080
comes from. 
And it's just that all the 

401
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,720
efforts are so scattered. 
You know, it's there's, yeah, 

402
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,280
there's just not a lot of value 
being created. 

403
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,440
And if it's created, yeah, it's 
they're using other people's 

404
00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:21,080
money. 
Right. 

405
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:24,440
So it's just, it's fair. 
Very. 

406
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,520
I don't know. 
It was a long rant, but it's 

407
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:30,280
just, it taught me a lot, right?
Like it it really opened my eyes

408
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:33,760
to how some things work and then
triggered me to think about it. 

409
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,040
Like, what do I actually think 
about it, right? 

410
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:39,920
Like, now that I saw the this 
information, it really forced me

411
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,600
to, yeah, create an opinion I'd 
say. 

412
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,600
And that's why we love Bitcoin. 
And it's hard cap. 

413
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,720
You can't just create money out 
of dinner exactly. 

414
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:53,760
And and also the trustlessness 
is like the past few weeks, like

415
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:59,480
that dimension of Bitcoin has 
really popped up for me. 

416
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,680
Like everyone has their own 
issues with their own ego and 

417
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:07,520
their own life and we all have 
the same journey of what as you 

418
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,200
expressed, right? 
Like I did something yesterday I

419
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,440
talked to Michael Dunworth, we 
had the Confucius quotes about 

420
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:16,920
man has two lives and the second
begins when he only realizes he 

421
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,440
has, when he realizes he only 
has one right. 

422
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,120
Like everyone has their journey.
Everyone, right? 

423
00:24:22,680 --> 00:24:25,440
And we are all the same. 
No one is better than than you 

424
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,040
or me. 
Like we we are just all the 

425
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:33,480
same, right? 
And once you realize that, you 

426
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,000
can also, I think, accept that 
if we are all the same and 

427
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,600
eventually in the right place, 
we are all corruptible because 

428
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:46,200
we want to. 
I want you to die before me 

429
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,920
basically, right? 
I want to live if there's a 

430
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,080
choice, right? 
So I will always choose myself 

431
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,800
as the survival instinct. 
Like once you accept that, you 

432
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:59,320
also will see that you don't 
want to follow rulers, you don't

433
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,280
want to follow other people who 
create rules that become like 

434
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,800
the external influence of other 
people's lives. 

435
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,080
And once you think that that 
should not be the case, then 

436
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,960
you, I think, automatically end 
up at Bitcoin because that is 

437
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:19,880
just rules enforced by all the 
people in in the network. 

438
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,760
And therefore, because you can 
trust no one, you can trust 

439
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:25,360
everyone basically. 
Right. 

440
00:25:25,360 --> 00:25:28,720
So we are all, you know, the 
people that contribute to the 

441
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:33,600
network. 
We are, yeah, accepting that we 

442
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,360
should trust rules and not 
rulers. 

443
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:40,000
And I that is something that has
really become like a main point 

444
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:42,000
for me that I find very 
fascinating. 

445
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,680
Like I I feel that Bitcoin in 
that sense is way more kind of 

446
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,880
like a personal journey and 
understanding of life and 

447
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:54,520
incentives and stuff like that 
than the the technical part, for

448
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,720
example. 
Yeah, how's that for you? 

449
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,480
Oh. 
Yeah, for sure, for sure. 

450
00:25:59,960 --> 00:26:04,480
Like, you know, so you have this
21 million hard cap and that's a

451
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,120
thing I think most people 
struggle with because of they've

452
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:13,640
spent their whole life. 
You know being gas lit by by 

453
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,200
Keynesian economics and and a 
lot of people think well you 

454
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:19,800
know there's not enough Bitcoin 
to go around for everybody so 

455
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,720
it's going to fail when the then
you have the conversation well 

456
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,600
it's digital so it can be 
divided down to 100 million 

457
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:28,640
units. 
So you know you are now looking 

458
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,360
at whatever the number is. 2.1 
quad trillion whatever the 21 or

459
00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,720
2.1. 
Now one of the two, Yeah, I 

460
00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:38,120
don't know. 
There's too many zeros to even 

461
00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:41,960
comprehend like, so there's 
plenty and but also if something

462
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,720
is scarce it's worth working 
for. 

463
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,400
So you have to be creative and 
add value and therefore you can 

464
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,200
capture value. 
Exactly. 

465
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,600
And you can't just create more 
of it out of thin air like we we

466
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,240
can in the the banking system as
we've just been discussing. 

467
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,120
So under such a system. 
The reverse would happen. 

468
00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:02,960
Prices wouldn't go up forever. 
Prices would go down forever. 

469
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:05,880
And that's when you lose a lot 
of people again. 

470
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,840
Because no, this can't be true 
like that. 

471
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,680
What a world would that be. 
Everybody would be poorer. 

472
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,920
You like, huh? 
But then people are looking at 

473
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,720
price, right? 
I think that's the trick. 

474
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,880
People are looking at the units 
numbers, the price of stuff. 

475
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,720
I think that's the deception is 
in the the numbers and the 

476
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:29,160
height of a numbers and that 
that represents fail you. 

477
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:31,200
Sorry, I didn't want to 
interrupt you, but that's no. 

478
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,360
No, no. 
And getting stuck on looking at 

479
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,600
the the price of Bitcoin priced 
in, in euro terms or dollar 

480
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,480
terms or pound terms, whatever 
it is, you you get stuck looking

481
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,200
at that number and and you're 
still trapped in this Fiat 

482
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:46,840
mindset of, oh, I'm going to 
have lots more dollars. 

483
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,720
That's great, but everyone's 
going to have lots more dollars 

484
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:54,680
because they keep printing it. 
And that just still means the 

485
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,920
prices of things that you want 
and desire are going to go up 

486
00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,880
priced in that. 
But they're going to go down 

487
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:02,520
priced in Bitcoin. 
Yeah. 

488
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,160
And then when you turn it 
around, if you think about just 

489
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,680
priced in Bitcoin, if you think 
about Bitcoin, it's just the 

490
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,040
protocol that just is like one. 
The the meme of one Bitcoin is 1

491
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,880
Bitcoin. 
That's the whole point, $1.00 is

492
00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:20,640
not $1.00. 
Yeah, maybe now, but now, not 

493
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:22,440
anymore, right? 
Like 3 seconds later, it's 

494
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,240
already different, right? 
And so the dollar in, dollar in.

495
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,760
1980, another mortgage has been 
written somewhere exactly right.

496
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,920
So in 19, the dollar in 1980 is 
not the same dollar as as the 

497
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,360
$1.00 now. 
And I think that in general when

498
00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,240
we talk about Bitcoin or or 
trying to educate people, right.

499
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:46,480
Because as you mentioned in the 
beginning, all this stuff, it's 

500
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:51,280
never talked about even when 
people do a master in economics.

501
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,880
I have some people on Twitter 
that reply to me and they said 

502
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,280
like, oh, bitcoins, fake money, 
this and that, blah blah. 

503
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:00,400
And then I ask what is money? 
And then I get replies like, 

504
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,440
well, I'm a master of economics 
and I couldn't tell you. 

505
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,400
And then I think like, wow, 
sorry, what? 

506
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:10,720
But so we don't get we're not 
being taught this right. 

507
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:16,400
And so the I forgot where I was 
going but like the the the money

508
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:18,520
thing like we don't know what is
money and we just look at the 

509
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:25,200
one thing one USD is 1 USD but 
that's it's just not true and we

510
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,920
are it's still kind of laughable
sometimes when people say like 

511
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,800
oh Coca-Cola, whatever was one 
dollar 1980 and now it's three. 

512
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:39,440
OK like nobody asks a question 
why why That is right. 

513
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,000
And yeah I find that angle 
fascinating. 

514
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,920
I think that that angle is very 
important to hopefully show 

515
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,520
people that something is really 
wrong that's right and that we 

516
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:55,200
have to talk about the problem 
more or less the we we think or 

517
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,880
we know that Bitcoin is the 
solution, but that is not I 

518
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,920
think where. 
No, it's not like this, this 

519
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,920
definition of inflation that 
people believe. 

520
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,960
They actually believe what the 
central bank says. 

521
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,480
They actually believe that. 
A little bit of inflation in the

522
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:16,240
economy is good for the economy.
Like a an economic PhD will come

523
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:18,360
word for word. 
Repeat that to you. 

524
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,680
And like you said that they 
don't know because it's they 

525
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,680
haven't been taught. 
They've been taught what they 

526
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:32,080
need to be taught to keep this, 
this game afoot, And here we go.

527
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,080
I went to the It's a Ponzi. 
Yeah, it is. 

528
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,960
I went to the home page of the 
Bank of England the other day. 

529
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:40,600
It's like a knowledge Ponzi 
Funny. 

530
00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,000
I tweeted this. 
Let let me pull this up, because

531
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,840
this is what's actually said on 
the Bank of England's home page.

532
00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:53,280
Here we go. 
Inflation is a measure of how 

533
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:57,720
much the prices of goods such as
food or televisions and services

534
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,640
such as haircuts or train 
tickets have gone up over time. 

535
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,120
It literally says that on the 
landing page of the Bank of 

536
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:06,160
England. 
I mean. 

537
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,560
That is a lie. 
The actual definition of 

538
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:14,920
inflation is an increase of the 
monetary supply, not an increase

539
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,840
of prices. 
The increase of prices is a 

540
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,680
knock on effect of increasing 
monetary supply. 

541
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:30,480
Now they go on to say after 
that, here we go, the money we 

542
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,360
So they then go on to talk about
quantitative easing. 

543
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,920
And increasing the the monetary 
supply into into the into the 

544
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,960
system. 
Quote from the landing page of 

545
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:46,040
the Bank of England. 
The money we used to buy bonds 

546
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:51,240
when we were doing QE did not 
come from government taxation or

547
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:55,080
borrowing. 
Instead, like other central 

548
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,440
banks, we can create money 
digitally. 

549
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:03,400
They're not even hiding it. 
Yeah, it's there translation. 

550
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:08,000
I bought something of perceived 
value without actually creating 

551
00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:10,560
value that. 
Translation. 

552
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,640
We counterfeit money. 
We literally counterfeit money. 

553
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,320
The Bank of England might as 
well just say 

554
00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:21,520
bankofengland.co.uk. 
Your local money counterfeiters 

555
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,560
like it. 
And the same for the Fed. 

556
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,080
And the same for Bank of Japan, 
and the same for Royal Bank of 

557
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,400
Australia. 
Every single central bank around

558
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,680
the world. 
Are counterfeiting money and 

559
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,880
then the the banks that sit 
underneath them that the only 

560
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:41,160
people that can bank in such a 
fashion are the ones that are 

561
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,160
licensed to do that in their 
country by their central bank, 

562
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,120
by their self ordained central 
bank which is not part of the 

563
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,960
government. 
So we we are. 

564
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,880
When people start waking up to 
this, you can't Unsee it and you

565
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,320
get angry and you go through 
these like 7 stages of grief, 

566
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:03,440
you know? 
Yeah, yeah. 

567
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Yeah. 
Well, how could we word it 

568
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:08,200
differently, right? 
Because when you say it's 

569
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:10,520
counterfeiting, I talked with 
Jeff Boots about this, right, 

570
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,160
about inflation is theft and 
stuff. 

571
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,520
Like the words for a lot of 
people are very hard. 

572
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:17,880
Even when you say 
counterfeiting, I still feel 

573
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,320
that somewhere, right? 
Like it's just and it's so 

574
00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:25,680
fascinating because that belief 
that everything is OK and people

575
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,880
are righteous and they're doing 
it for you, like that runs 

576
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,800
really deep if you, especially 
if you grew up. 

577
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:35,080
I said there's a lot like in a 
Western country where, you know,

578
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,880
I had food and water and a roof 
and grew up in the best time 

579
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:41,760
ever to grow up for any person, 
whoever lived, Right. 

580
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,520
So I never had had or saw a 
problem, right. 

581
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:49,800
So even now that I see Bitcoin 
and all these problems, I still 

582
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:51,840
feel it when you say 
counterfeiting, right? 

583
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,200
I feel like, no, that that can't
be true, right? 

584
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:58,120
It must not be true. 
Because if you once you really 

585
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:03,120
integrate that, your whole 
worldview changes, I'd say, 

586
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,280
right? 
Yeah, so well. 

587
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,520
I I've just, I've just looked up
these these stages of grief. 

588
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,480
There are five or seven, so 
let's let's just do the five 

589
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:14,320
because it'd be quicker and 
they're pretty much the same 

590
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,520
anyway. 
Denial is the first one. 

591
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,320
Yeah. 
So when, you know you have this 

592
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,719
conversation with somebody out 
at lunch or whatever and you 

593
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,000
bring this up, the first thing 
they do whenever you're trying 

594
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,159
to orange peel someone is deny. 
You know what? 

595
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,360
What are you talking about? 
Rolling the eyes. 

596
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,679
What are you. 
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. 

597
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,440
What's not? 
Are you crazy? 

598
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,400
Are you out of your mind? 
Yeah. 

599
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,280
Is good for the economy. 
What website have you been on, 

600
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,520
Daniel? 
Exactly. 

601
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,120
Take your tinfoil hat off at the
lunch table. 

602
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So right, there you go, Bam, 

603
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,520
denial. 
So then what comes next? 

604
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,679
Maybe because you, you know, as 
you know, you plant the seed and

605
00:34:53,679 --> 00:34:57,440
it just slowly, like it might 
keep you awake at night. 

606
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,880
Or you think about it. 
You see something that connects 

607
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:02,880
a dot with what you've been 
told. 

608
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,640
You're like, huh, That reminds 
me of that conversation. 

609
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,400
Boom. 
You know, something happened 

610
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:11,200
inside you. 
You see it, then it's anger. 

611
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:15,040
Is the next stage. 
You're angry because you should 

612
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,560
be. 
We have been duped. 

613
00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:22,360
We've all been completely and 
utterly, totally stolen from. 

614
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:26,400
This is theft. 
Counterfeiting is immoral, and 

615
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:32,640
we've all been bought into this 
system of destruction. 

616
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,160
And yet you should be angry. 
But the problem is, a lot of 

617
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,600
people get stuck there, right? 
We still see it even in the. 

618
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,680
Bitcoin space today I have to 
think about before you continue,

619
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,760
I have to think about yesterday.
I think there was an episode, Oh

620
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:51,640
yeah, Peter McCormack with RFK 
saw a nice tweet, the response 

621
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,240
by RFK on what brought Bitcoin 
to his attention. 

622
00:35:54,240 --> 00:35:56,400
And then he says if the 
government can punish you by 

623
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,920
shutting down your bank account 
without even charging you with a

624
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,440
crime, they have the ultimate 
power to turn us into slaves. 

625
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:06,280
Again, hard words, but that ties
into this angrieness. 

626
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,520
Like once you realize that that 
is that that is actually the 

627
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,560
case, it's so messed up like you
that that's what I meant with 

628
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,840
then it changes your world view 
because you realize that not 

629
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,880
everything you've been taught 
was loving or caring or true 

630
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,960
right and and that there's a lot
of things that have not been 

631
00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:29,640
taught to you and then on 
purpose. 

632
00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,720
This is almost describing 
somebody's descent into the 

633
00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:34,680
rabbit hole. 
Actually it's it's probably 

634
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,160
memeable if it's not been done 
already because the next stage. 

635
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,760
Is anger. 
Excuse me? 

636
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,840
No, we've done anger, denial, 
anger and then. 

637
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,160
Is guilt or bargaining, which is
what we were talking about. 

638
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:48,800
Like, you know, you bargain in 
your mind. 

639
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,840
It's like, well, I I needed to 
take out that loan for that 

640
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,120
extra money for that. 
Holiday. 

641
00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,760
You know, a mortgage. 
Most people, yes. 

642
00:36:57,760 --> 00:36:59,720
Justifying your ignorance or 
something. 

643
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:04,240
Yeah, basically that, yeah, I I 
needed to do that. 

644
00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:06,200
And you're bargaining with 
yourself and you're trying to 

645
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:10,120
find a way around the the guilt 
that you slowly to be 

646
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,360
disappointed in yourself. 
Yeah, that's a good one. 

647
00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:13,320
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

648
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:19,640
Which many people that have been
through the Bitcoin Rabbit Hole 

649
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,280
arc have felt they felt all of 
these feelings? 

650
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,920
And then depression. 
A lot of people, and you see it,

651
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:33,480
A lot of people are very 
depressed about, huh, how did we

652
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,320
get here? 
No wonder society acts in such a

653
00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:38,720
way. 
No wonder this is broken. 

654
00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:42,880
No wonder that is broken. 
No, you know, like this is this 

655
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,320
is bleak and a lot of people can
get very, very stuck there. 

656
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,280
And it's very dangerous to to 
linger in in that part of the 

657
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,680
that's basically when you 
embrace the deception, right? 

658
00:37:55,720 --> 00:38:03,360
And that you lived. 
Tough times tough times and then

659
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,960
finally you get you get to 
acceptance and you you you kind 

660
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,960
of like work your way through it
you're like right. 

661
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:16,480
OK, that was tough, but at least
I know now and and what can I do

662
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,760
to change course and. 
That's why Bitcoin is so 

663
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,120
important to to those of us that
have found it, because we can 

664
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:28,080
opt out of that system. 
We can opt out of that coercion 

665
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:33,560
and that manipulation. 
And we can save it, gives it, 

666
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,520
you know, Bitcoin is savings 
technology. 

667
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,840
It's like, my God, I can save 
again just by exchanging this 

668
00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:44,800
Fiat currency that is designed 
to lose purchasing power. 

669
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,600
I can. 
Flip that into something that is

670
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:54,760
designed to keep or increase in 
purchasing power, Yeah. 

671
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,960
Wow. 
OK, it's really a 180. 

672
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:03,280
I'm thinking maybe we should 
make a video on the stages of 

673
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,720
grief. 
And then, yeah, just as you 

674
00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:09,000
said, like you, because it is 
only when you go fully through 

675
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:14,800
it and you accept that you were 
unaware that you've been duped, 

676
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,120
that you now know that you were 
disappointed in yourself. 

677
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,600
But now understand, because the 
acceptance is actually only the 

678
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,240
1st part, right? 
It's the acceptance is OK. 

679
00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:28,000
I see the problem now. 
I see the effect on my life. 

680
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:33,040
I have made the decision that 
that is, I don't agree with 

681
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:37,480
that. 
I don't want to live this life, 

682
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,200
the one life, right? 
And that I'm influenced by all 

683
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,240
these other people who are no 
better than me, etcetera. 

684
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,000
Only then the rest of the 
Bitcoin journey starts, right? 

685
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:49,760
Because Bitcoin is only the the 
solution. 

686
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,440
I think. 
I think it's actually a very 

687
00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,960
good like a method to Orange 
Bill perhaps, right? 

688
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,600
Because per stage you can talk 
about these different things and

689
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,000
it's actually interesting 
because the the. 

690
00:40:03,720 --> 00:40:09,040
The, the, the denial is only 
after you heard the facts, 

691
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:11,120
right? 
It's all a personal journey. 

692
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,360
It's not even about the facts. 
They they come before. 

693
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,080
It's really a personal journey. 
And then after that you can 

694
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,480
research, you know, a new 
subject, Bitcoin in this case, 

695
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,440
right? 
Yeah. 

696
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:27,360
It's just now that you share 
this, I think like that. 

697
00:40:27,720 --> 00:40:30,000
I think that's a great, great 
idea. 

698
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,280
Also because you're not going to
orange peel people with facts. 

699
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,280
No, they're not going to help 
them see the problem just with 

700
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,560
the with the facts, right? 
It's. 

701
00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:48,440
The way I and it's why I 
explained it to my daughter once

702
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:51,400
like would you, would you carry 
on playing a game with somebody 

703
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:54,840
that you knew was always going 
to win? 

704
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,240
Because like the the they 
control the manual. 

705
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:00,920
Yeah, they they they change the 
rules on you. 

706
00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:03,680
Or you know, nobody likes 
playing with a cheat. 

707
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:06,080
If you're sitting down, like 5 
of you are playing a game of 

708
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,800
Monopoly and one person keeps 
sliding the five hundreds under 

709
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,480
their lap and everybody else 
knew, but you were just carried 

710
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:19,520
on playing the game because you 
know, oh maybe, maybe I'll still

711
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:24,880
win. 
Like, no, you you're in. 0 Sum 

712
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:29,920
like you are going to lose. 
It's funny because it's like 

713
00:41:30,040 --> 00:41:32,560
it's like I don't know if if 
this is like a thing, but I feel

714
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:38,160
like if you are a righteous 
person or you you have your 

715
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:40,160
morals in order or something so 
to say. 

716
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:45,160
Then when someone breaks that, 
let's say in this little game 

717
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:50,280
example, it takes some strength 
to actually believe in those 

718
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:54,480
morals at that like a 
confrontation moment and then 

719
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,000
like act upon it, right? 
But the weird thing here is that

720
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,120
if you don't act upon it, you 
actually condone it, right? 

721
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:07,040
And you never test yourself on 
your own beliefs because you can

722
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:09,920
think the beliefs, but if you 
don't act, it's worthless 

723
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:13,720
basically because you still 
allow the other person to to 

724
00:42:13,720 --> 00:42:17,920
cheat. 
So it does take some courage in 

725
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,560
a sense to actually live your 
your, your beliefs in a moment 

726
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:25,840
of confrontation, even in a 
Monopoly game, right? 

727
00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:29,040
I think that's a great example. 
But what if it's a bigger game 

728
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,560
and and the person who is 
changing the rules to benefit 

729
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,160
themselves is actually pretty 
faceless or very far away from 

730
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,000
you physically? 
Or, you know, like I cannot 

731
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,200
drive to the central bank right 
now and knock on the door and 

732
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,000
say, like, hey, can I talk to 
Christine? 

733
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,640
Like that is just unrealistic, 
right? 

734
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,440
So. 
But she is the cheat at the 

735
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,360
table. 
Yes, exactly. 

736
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,280
Or well the the head, the head 
of the gang of cheats, but yes, 

737
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:58,480
right. 
That's that's great. 

738
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:04,320
And so if we translate that into
OK, you can probably not reach 

739
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:05,960
her. 
You cannot ring the bell and say

740
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,920
can I talk to her. 
So what are ways to lift those 

741
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,840
beliefs is you can do in her 
work first and then. 

742
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,080
Yeah, you can get up and you can
walk away from the table. 

743
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:20,880
Just walk away. 
And that's what you do when you 

744
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,120
buy Bitcoin. 
You're walking away. 

745
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,120
You are saying no more. 
I'm not playing this game 

746
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,000
anymore. 
Why would I sit here, wasting my

747
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,280
time playing this game when I 
know you're cheating, when I 

748
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:34,280
know it? 
I've seen you cheat. 

749
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:37,120
I know what you're doing. 
I know how you're doing it. 

750
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:39,160
I'm walking away. 
You just get up. 

751
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,360
But is this where we? 
Is this where we take the step 

752
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,960
to like the bread and circus 
distraction, low vibration, all 

753
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:48,520
that stuff? 
But I think so, right? 

754
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:54,360
Because if you if you understand
or feel right, we see all the 

755
00:43:54,360 --> 00:44:00,080
TikTok and short videos you know
of people who have degrees but 

756
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,560
make 16 hours, $16.00 an hour 
when they're a teacher and 

757
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,520
whatever. 
Like people feel that something 

758
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,840
is going on, they're not acting 
upon it. 

759
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,280
They're making selfies for 
likes, right? 

760
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:27,880
Even that well, how, how can we 
help people be more aware that 

761
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:32,640
they the only thing they can do 
is act right like you have to. 

762
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,480
You have to start moving in a 
sense, right? 

763
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:45,560
Move to another system like how?
How I lost my train of thought 

764
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:47,240
here, but like how? 
How can we do that? 

765
00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:49,240
Because it is this personal 
thing, right? 

766
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:53,160
Like if you feel like this is 
not OK, what can I do about it? 

767
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:56,320
Well, if your answer is I cannot
do anything about it and you 

768
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,480
wake up every morning depressed 
or stressed or whatever, along 

769
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,200
with the bread and circus 
distractions of there. 

770
00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,040
You go, that's that's where you 
were going with this, the bread 

771
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:10,640
along along with that then that 
inner journey is very difficult 

772
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,800
to to understand. 
OK, these are my beliefs. 

773
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,040
I am actually right. 
Holy shit. 

774
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,840
This thing outside of me is 
corrupted. 

775
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,920
I have to move. 
I have to do something right. 

776
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,720
But I I feel that the bread and 
circus part is part of keeping 

777
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:29,520
you away from that. 
Yeah, inner work or realization,

778
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,840
however you want to call it, to 
actually get to the point where 

779
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,960
you believe yourself, basically.
Yeah, let let's unpack that for 

780
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,200
those people that you know must 
might be wondering what we're 

781
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,880
talking about. 
Bread and circuses and I I don't

782
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:46,800
remember which Roman. 
Philosopher or advisor to 

783
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,840
whichever Roman emperor. 
But basically it was said we'll 

784
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,480
give them bread and circuses and
they will not revolt. 

785
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,080
So basically, make sure you've 
got some kind of cheap form of 

786
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:01,200
food on the table. 
So even today we have subsidized

787
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,040
bread in most countries, and 
we're mono cropping wheat at 

788
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:08,840
ridiculous rates just to make 
sure that there's enough grain 

789
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:12,240
to keep bread. 
For example, on the table or the

790
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,960
OR all of the derivatives that 
you're not starving and you get 

791
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:21,000
happy dopamine feeling from 
crazy fights in the Colosseum 

792
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,240
and they had lotteries and clown
shows and whatever 

793
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:26,960
entertainment. 
Exactly. 

794
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:28,840
Whatever you want to say is 
circus. 

795
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:31,800
And and the circuses today are 
all of that. 

796
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,040
All of television is a circus. 
All of politics is a circus. 

797
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,960
All of the sporting events are, 
you know, circuses directly 

798
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:45,360
comparable to the Colosseum. 
Because you you go to a 

799
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,800
Colosseum, there's 80,000 people
there and they're baying for 

800
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,720
blood in many, many 
circumstances that you know that

801
00:46:51,720 --> 00:46:55,320
your team has to win at all 
costs. 

802
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,160
You can't go there and enjoy a 
game of football or a game of 

803
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,800
hockey or a game of whatever if 
you're emotionally involved in 

804
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,600
it, which. 
Almost certainly every person 

805
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:11,080
there is. 
And wow, there is 2 to 3 hours 

806
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:15,960
of your life completely and 
utterly totally controlled your 

807
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,480
your emotions are raised, you're
you're not thinking clearly and 

808
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,480
you'll go home. 
And your intention is on 

809
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:24,600
something that is made-up 
basically, right? 

810
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:29,440
You're certainly not thinking 
about 21 million hard cap and 

811
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,440
finite scarcity. 
Exactly. 

812
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:33,320
You're not. 
Yeah. 

813
00:47:36,720 --> 00:47:38,240
Yeah. 
It's fascinating how we can 

814
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:42,160
trick ourselves, right. 
And like also I feel that it's 

815
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:47,400
important for for us when when 
we have the feeling that we are,

816
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,400
you know, we see Bitcoin, we see
the problems etcetera that we, 

817
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:54,680
we, we, we we do still discuss 
with compassion because we were 

818
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,520
also and are still in some fact 
like as I just said to you, like

819
00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:02,080
when you use the word like 
counterfeiting, I still feel it,

820
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:04,320
right. 
So I'm still kind of trapped in 

821
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,280
this old thinking and identity 
and stuff, right. 

822
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:10,200
Like I I feel that once we talk 
about this, it should be with 

823
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:15,200
compassion and like understand 
that yes, we are all easily 

824
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:19,320
trapped with with food and 
dopamine basically, right. 

825
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:24,320
Like that is just that's just 
how it is how it is, right. 

826
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,560
It's no one's, no one's 
individual faults and. 

827
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,960
Then how do you break out of 
that? 

828
00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:32,360
Well, this is something that a 
lot of bitcoiners have talked 

829
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,320
about before. 
So many people have changed what

830
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,760
they eat. 
They've changed their diet 

831
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,080
completely, They've changed 
their their lifestyle 

832
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,400
completely. 
And I've seen so many accounts 

833
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:46,320
of, and I felt this myself, I I 
have not watched a full game of 

834
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:47,920
football. 
I used to watch football. 

835
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:51,280
I used to be a season ticket 
holder when I was in the UK. 

836
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,680
Football. 
Soccer for you American 

837
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,000
listeners used to take up. 
So much of my time and energy 

838
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,800
and money as well, that that was
all I was ever talking about. 

839
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:07,240
And this is such a reversal in 
my mind. 

840
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:09,720
It's like, huh, I look at it 
now, it's just a pure 

841
00:49:09,720 --> 00:49:12,560
distraction I have. 
I can actually sit down and 

842
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:15,160
watch a game of football if I 
want to without being that 

843
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:17,960
emotionally tied to it. 
But to be devil's advocate, 

844
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:19,720
right? 
If people, if people hear this, 

845
00:49:19,720 --> 00:49:22,200
they would say like, yeah, but 
come on Daniel, I can have some 

846
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:26,360
fun in my life, you know, but. 
Of course, isn't that the whole 

847
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:30,360
point, The fact that you need 
fun in your life? 

848
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,480
What? 
You know, like that? 

849
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:36,520
That's already very interesting 
sentence, don't you think? 

850
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:41,320
Like, OK, so my life is not fun,
so I'm escaping to have fun. 

851
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:47,120
If you think about why is my 
life not fun, maybe then you end

852
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,480
up, you know, at the money 
problem. 

853
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,840
In a sense, right? 
So but that is maybe also the 

854
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,640
denial instinct like yeah, but I
should have fun. 

855
00:49:55,640 --> 00:49:58,400
I mean like what are you talking
about and give people their 

856
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:07,640
their football game on Sunday. 
They're not wrong in Yeah 

857
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,440
they're not wrong right. 
But I feel like that's already I

858
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,440
agree with you but I think it's 
interesting how what the the 

859
00:50:15,440 --> 00:50:18,880
perceived how people can 
perceive that. 

860
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,240
Yeah, it's interesting how it 
all slowly unravels over time, 

861
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,720
yeah. 
And how you start guarding your 

862
00:50:25,720 --> 00:50:29,680
time and actually interacting 
with the things that do truly 

863
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:35,280
make you happy and do truly make
you you truly are interested in,

864
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:40,400
Yeah. 
It will expose the the things 

865
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,640
that you you are just doing for 
doing's sake. 

866
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:48,880
Yeah. 
I also feel like you are more 

867
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:52,680
conscious of your time when you 
understand Bitcoin, like you are

868
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,680
conscious of what you spend time
on, but also what you spend 

869
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,080
money on or if you want to buy 
more stuff. 

870
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,600
And like, I feel like I've been 
living really frugal in a sense,

871
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:10,040
you know, like I think everyone 
likes nice things in a sense, 

872
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:11,920
right? 
Whatever you like. 

873
00:51:12,360 --> 00:51:16,240
Doesn't really matter. 
But I've had so many moments 

874
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:19,240
where I was like, oh, I want 
this, Oh no, like do I really 

875
00:51:19,240 --> 00:51:20,400
need it? 
No, not really. 

876
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:24,080
Like that is really difference a
real difference in in my 

877
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,960
thinking, I'd say like less of 
this, that the whole 

878
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:32,840
consumerism, you know, world 
where you grow up in and that 

879
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:38,080
you also see, I think in places 
where people are less fortunate,

880
00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:41,080
right? 
Or or have less prosperity and 

881
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:46,160
stuff like that. 
Thinking did trickle down like 

882
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:49,000
these places. 
And sometimes when I think about

883
00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:50,760
that, like that, that is very 
sad. 

884
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,480
Like like like that is the 
purpose of life. 

885
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,360
Get more shit that you don't 
need. 

886
00:51:57,080 --> 00:51:59,280
You know that I like to impress 
people that you don't like. 

887
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,160
I love that quote. 
Yeah, that's but. 

888
00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,680
There's even. 
There's even like a term for it,

889
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,240
right? 
Retail therapy. 

890
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:07,040
People will say that. 
Oh really? 

891
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,360
You just go out, you'll go out 
and buy shit. 

892
00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,480
They don't need to impress 
people they don't like, but it 

893
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,080
makes them feel good in the 
moment. 

894
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,360
It makes them feel good when 
they bring it home and they can 

895
00:52:16,360 --> 00:52:18,680
display it. 
Two or three days later, you've 

896
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,600
forgotten about it and you're 
straight back in that loop of 

897
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,560
depression and anxiety and, you 
know, completely, totally 

898
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:27,720
unfulfilled. 
So what do you think? 

899
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:31,400
Basically, I need a bit more 
retail therapy, so you'll go out

900
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,800
and you'll buy another. 
It's just an endless cycle, this

901
00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:38,800
consumption era in which we 
live. 

902
00:52:39,360 --> 00:52:43,160
Is and look at. 
Look at the crap it gets churned

903
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,520
out. 
You know it's just incredible. 

904
00:52:45,520 --> 00:52:49,200
The amount of products that are 
out there that shouldn't exist 

905
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:51,320
wouldn't exist under a sound 
money standard. 

906
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,320
Have you ever seen that video in
in China or Indonesia or 

907
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:57,560
something? 
It's a warehouse and they have 

908
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:03,280
like all these not cubicles but 
like square, like 25 square 

909
00:53:03,280 --> 00:53:06,800
meters, like places. 
There's women working there. 

910
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,840
They are live on TikTok and they
sell stuff. 

911
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:10,920
It's like a full, it's like a 
warehouse full. 

912
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:13,200
And there's someone like walking
through it and showing you all 

913
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:16,680
these little cabins, all these 
little studios, and they're just

914
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:21,000
selling crap. 
It's like Aliexpress stuff and 

915
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:28,840
they're selling it on TikTok and
it's like the epitome of the 

916
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,760
wastefulness of this wrong, like
the Fiat world, right? 

917
00:53:34,240 --> 00:53:36,280
They're on your phone scrolling,
buying stuff. 

918
00:53:36,920 --> 00:53:38,160
It's crazy. 
It's crazy. 

919
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,160
But. 
And how now that we were talking

920
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:45,480
about this, I was thinking 
about, you know, the people that

921
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:48,080
talk about the environment. 
We need to save the planet, all 

922
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:50,640
these things. 
Like, I think we need to take 

923
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:52,920
care of the planet. 
The, you know, the nature was 

924
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,080
here before us. 
So we have to respect that. 

925
00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,680
I love that. 
By the way, I think it's in New 

926
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:00,200
Zealand. 
You have like these tribes and 

927
00:54:00,200 --> 00:54:04,240
they they put nature first. 
So whenever they think of 

928
00:54:04,240 --> 00:54:07,440
chopping down a tree to build a 
house or a road or whatever, 

929
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:10,720
like they they realized that the
nature was there before them. 

930
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:15,560
And so they really reflect on if
they should actually do that, 

931
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,120
right. 
But when we talk about this 

932
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:23,880
mindset and people being 
trapped, I feel that in some 

933
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:30,560
ways this environmental activism
type is also kind of, I don't 

934
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,200
want to say circus, but it's 
like a social thing that people 

935
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:39,320
gather around without actually 
talking about the the real 

936
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:43,240
problems, right? 
It's it's sometimes, although I 

937
00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:46,800
agree that we have to take 
better care of the world, like 

938
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:49,480
it feels like this is also like 
a distraction in a sense. 

939
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,200
Like what? 
What do you think of that are 

940
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:53,520
for these people or type of 
people or whatever? 

941
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,240
It's such an easy sign up. 
It's like, oh what? 

942
00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:01,000
You don't care about the planet.
How dare you? 

943
00:55:01,240 --> 00:55:03,560
You know you could cancel 
someone immediately with like 

944
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:09,040
one sentence, but you yeah, like
the social justice warriors that

945
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,200
would just like scream about 
anything without doing any kind 

946
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:17,480
of research and will just 
blatantly mouth flap. 

947
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:21,840
Repeat. 
What they've heard on mainstream

948
00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:26,320
media about the environment and 
what Greta has recently said 

949
00:55:27,120 --> 00:55:29,800
that there is no, it's way more 
nuanced. 

950
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:33,480
I'd say, like the world and 
everything is way more nuanced 

951
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,000
than how people discuss it 
nowadays, Right? 

952
00:55:36,000 --> 00:55:38,520
Like now it's like, I'm right, 
you're wrong. 

953
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,080
Oh, do you also think I'm right?
Well, now we're a group, you 

954
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:44,080
know, but that's and, and and 
and Daniel's an idiot or 

955
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:48,120
something, you know, like, I 
don't think it works like that. 

956
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:50,720
You know, it's way more nuanced 
and because these people find 

957
00:55:50,720 --> 00:55:54,520
each other in this very narrow 
agreement of thoughts or 

958
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:57,120
something, that's why I said 
circus in the sense that, Oh 

959
00:55:57,120 --> 00:55:58,960
yeah, then we're together and we
feel something and we are 

960
00:55:58,960 --> 00:56:02,560
validated and blah, blah. 
But you are not actually. 

961
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,640
Right, Like, right, right. 
You're directionally perhaps 

962
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:12,240
doing a good thing. 
But yeah, it's also you're 

963
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:15,280
spending time on this and that 
is actually the whole point that

964
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,800
it's also a distraction from the
real reasons why. 

965
00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:23,960
The real reasons are behaviour 
and stuff. 

966
00:56:24,200 --> 00:56:26,920
Yeah, the real reasons why this 
narrative is being pushed, 

967
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,520
though heavy by such interested 
parties and lobby groups that 

968
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:35,400
are benefiting and making money 
from this narrative. 

969
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,640
You know that the narrative has 
been curated to make money for. 

970
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:47,080
By certain few people that have 
very, very big interests in the 

971
00:56:47,080 --> 00:56:51,680
the narratives getting spread 
around and we just swallow it 

972
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:56,240
and we're just like, yeah, OK, 
we believe that now, you know, 

973
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:59,000
like the current thing meme. 
I love that. 

974
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:02,080
You know, I believe the current 
thing and people just have their

975
00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:06,760
minds changed by the news 
mainstream media daily. 

976
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,080
Daily like that, they would wake
up, check their phone. 

977
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:14,000
It used to be on the train. 
You you would buy the morning 

978
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,120
paper when I was going in and 
out of of work, and the 

979
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,960
headlines would be your 
conversational topics throughout

980
00:57:20,960 --> 00:57:23,640
that day. 
You were programmed, Your 

981
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,000
conversations were being 
programmed for the next 12 

982
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,840
hours. 
And that's nuts. 

983
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,720
Yeah, that's absolutely nuts. 
There wouldn't be any. 

984
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:35,480
Discord about it. 
There won't be any conversation.

985
00:57:35,480 --> 00:57:37,840
True debate. 
It would just be, oh, did you 

986
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,600
see this? 
Oh yeah, that's amazing. 

987
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,360
I better agree with him because,
you know, seems everybody else 

988
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:44,840
in the office is agreeing on 
that side. 

989
00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,000
And I don't want to be the one 
that has the opposing view. 

990
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:52,560
Yeah, Voila. 
Funny. 

991
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:59,240
Yeah it's it's just so 
interesting that it takes a lot 

992
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:02,960
of work to to not step into that
trap. 

993
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:10,160
It's an easy it's easy it's it's
it's an easy it's easy reward to

994
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:15,080
just follow what someone else is
doing and it's hard to actually 

995
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:21,120
yeah do the work I think that 
you that you actually it's it's 

996
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:24,760
more the inner journey is way 
more important than however you 

997
00:58:24,760 --> 00:58:26,880
connect with others. 
I'd say like how can you connect

998
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,360
with others if you don't know 
yourself right. 

999
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:31,560
And I think that's why that that
trap is so easy that. 

1000
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:34,440
Yeah. 
And and and a lot of people 

1001
00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:37,960
obviously step into that. 
I mean, I've definitely done 

1002
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:41,720
that in the past, you know, but 
that's why I think this is so 

1003
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,040
difficult that people have you. 
Found have you found that like 

1004
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:52,840
you're not only has your 
personality changed people have 

1005
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:59,360
started moving away from you 
because the you you're you're 

1006
00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,720
happy. 
You're happy to speak your mind 

1007
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:03,640
now because you have truth on 
your side. 

1008
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:05,800
You understand. 
You've seen what you've seen. 

1009
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:11,560
You're not willing to be the guy
in the bar that just goes along 

1010
00:59:11,560 --> 00:59:13,960
with the conversation. 
You're the guy now who's going 

1011
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:18,480
to turn around and say, well, 
like, no, like, yeah, I think I 

1012
00:59:18,480 --> 00:59:20,720
do that more. 
I think I do that more. 

1013
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,960
I was already kind of like that 
in a sense that you know, even 

1014
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:28,840
if if there's a guy who comes 
here to the house like a plumber

1015
00:59:28,840 --> 00:59:31,920
and he has to do stuff like I 
still I watch what he does not 

1016
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:35,280
to control him. 
But I want to understand how it 

1017
00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:39,520
works because I cannot do it and
he can literally why I'm paying 

1018
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:42,240
him. 
And so I've always been. 

1019
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:45,320
I was always the annoying guy in
class like oh, there's Plum 

1020
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:47,400
again with this question. 
And I think like, yeah, like, 

1021
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,600
duh. 
Like I want I ask a question 

1022
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:55,080
because I want to understand. 
And sometimes I feel like 

1023
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:59,160
there's not that many people 
that think like that. 

1024
00:59:59,280 --> 01:00:01,280
Right. 
Like, I I I found it so 

1025
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:03,480
fascinating when people say that
like, oh are you asking 

1026
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:05,840
questions again? 
And I think like, yeah, like 

1027
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:09,760
it's a conversation, right. 
I'm, I'm being taught something 

1028
01:00:09,760 --> 01:00:14,600
in in you know this in college. 
And I just want to understand 

1029
01:00:14,600 --> 01:00:19,360
better, like, why? 
Why would I adopt one thing, one

1030
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:22,400
person says, You know, like, I 
think it's we are discovering 

1031
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:26,120
together. 
How something, for example, has 

1032
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,960
happened in the past, how we 
view it right now and how you 

1033
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:30,360
can apply it in the future, 
right? 

1034
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:33,040
I I feel like that's a 
conversation or at least should 

1035
01:00:33,040 --> 01:00:36,840
be your conversation, right? 
So I was always like that. 

1036
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,320
But now with this, I, I, yeah, 
like I said before, like I think

1037
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:46,520
I grew up just in a very safe, 
nice place. 

1038
01:00:47,400 --> 01:00:49,280
Not. 
Yeah, just in a Western world. 

1039
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,280
Like, no, yeah, you have no 
problems. 

1040
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:53,240
Like there's no, there's no 
problems, right. 

1041
01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,320
Although everyone has, you know,
personal struggles or traumas or

1042
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,880
whatever, like all these things.
But I mean like real life 

1043
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:05,000
threatening stuff, you know, 
Not, not, no. 

1044
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:14,160
And it after I really understood
not only Bitcoin but actually 

1045
01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,320
you know what it's solving. 
And all the things that we 

1046
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:22,360
talked about. 
I really realized that I could 

1047
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:24,960
not Unsee it. 
And because I cannot Unsee it, I

1048
01:01:24,960 --> 01:01:28,640
cannot have these simple sound. 
This is not a nice word. 

1049
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,080
But like these conversations, 
like I just don't care. 

1050
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:33,000
I think it's. 
Yeah. 

1051
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,280
I just don't care like yeah. 
What's the. 

1052
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:38,600
I used to watch soccer as well. 
Like I don't watch that. 

1053
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:40,920
Like I nothing on. 
I don't. 

1054
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,000
I only have Internet at home. 
I don't watch TV. 

1055
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,000
Yeah, I I I think it's just 
naturally like you don't get 

1056
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,560
energy from other people. 
And I feel like in Bitcoin at 

1057
01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:56,560
least like how you connect with 
each other is that you know that

1058
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,920
when you when you talk to 
someone who really understands 

1059
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:04,000
Bitcoin apart from the subject 
Bitcoin, you know that they did 

1060
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:09,000
the personal work that was 
needed for them to end up to 

1061
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:10,520
this point. 
And I think that is what 

1062
01:02:10,520 --> 01:02:15,200
connects people in Bitcoin, that
you, whatever your background or

1063
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,600
experience or whatever, it 
doesn't really matter. 

1064
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:20,320
Religion, like all these things,
don't matter in Bitcoin. 

1065
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:24,920
It's about that personal journey
that you went through or still 

1066
01:02:24,920 --> 01:02:27,880
are going through. 
Like you know that as we 

1067
01:02:27,880 --> 01:02:29,360
mentioned before, it takes 
courage. 

1068
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,280
Courage towards yourself. 
Not too impressive, just towards

1069
01:02:32,280 --> 01:02:35,400
yourself. 
Like, OK, it's me, no one's 

1070
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:37,000
coming to save me. 
I have a belief. 

1071
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:37,960
I see. 
It's not true. 

1072
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,320
I can deny that or I can 
investigate it. 

1073
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:47,440
What you will find, you know 
upfront is not fun to 

1074
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:49,560
experience, right? 
Because you will go to these 

1075
01:02:49,560 --> 01:02:54,280
grief stages and once you do 
that you recognize and click 

1076
01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:57,560
with people who also did that. 
And then again, like a religion 

1077
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:02,840
or any preference to whatever 
subjects is irrelevant because 

1078
01:03:03,640 --> 01:03:07,520
it's not what it's about. 
And so. 

1079
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,280
I don't know if you answer your 
question, but yeah, I see that 

1080
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,080
if people don't do that work, 
you you recognize when people 

1081
01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:20,320
are not like that, right? 
So putting a lot of things on 

1082
01:03:20,320 --> 01:03:24,560
other people or external forces,
like not talking about yourself,

1083
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:28,160
you know, like your own or kind 
of you know, the reflection talk

1084
01:03:28,160 --> 01:03:31,840
that we have now, it's like you 
know this my journey, that's 

1085
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,320
your journey and and and 
discussing that, that gives me 

1086
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,840
energy because I know that I 
don't know anything, right. 

1087
01:03:36,840 --> 01:03:40,160
But once I talk to someone who 
talks about, well this person is

1088
01:03:40,160 --> 01:03:45,080
a sucker or whatever like 
whatever, like putting the the 

1089
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:47,320
evidence or the reasoning 
outside way outside of 

1090
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,880
themselves, then you know that 
that they did not do the work. 

1091
01:03:50,880 --> 01:03:54,400
And that's not a judgement, but 
yeah, it's just hard to connect 

1092
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:59,240
with with those people. 
And this is the. 

1093
01:04:00,200 --> 01:04:03,320
What I think is so important 
about building out the the 

1094
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:07,120
social layer of Bitcoin and 
that's why I'm a big fan of 

1095
01:04:07,400 --> 01:04:12,360
going to the conferences, going 
to meetups, going to events, 

1096
01:04:13,320 --> 01:04:15,200
getting to meet other 
bitcoiners. 

1097
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:18,560
And I'll shield Orange Pill app,
because I think they've done an 

1098
01:04:18,560 --> 01:04:22,000
incredible job over the last 
year of bringing people together

1099
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:27,280
and the the success stories that
we hear from people that have. 

1100
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:32,200
Randomly met each other on that 
app, didn't realize they were 

1101
01:04:32,200 --> 01:04:34,440
like 10 to 15 miles away from 
each other. 

1102
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:38,480
I've been the lonely bitcoiner 
in their family for the last 18 

1103
01:04:38,480 --> 01:04:41,400
months. 
Three years, however long, go 

1104
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:45,320
and meet have the most amazing 
discussion they've ever had. 

1105
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,480
With somebody they would never 
have met otherwise. 

1106
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,320
And to your point that you could
have somebody. 

1107
01:04:51,600 --> 01:04:54,520
Two people from completely 
different sectors, completely 

1108
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:57,200
different ages, completely 
different races, completely 

1109
01:04:57,200 --> 01:05:00,920
different religions, completely 
different beliefs across the 

1110
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,960
whole spectrum. 
One might even be a Manchester 

1111
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,240
United fan and one might be a 
Manchester City fan. 

1112
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,600
But you bring the Bitcoin 
element to the table, None of 

1113
01:05:10,600 --> 01:05:14,880
that shit matters and you will 
form a relationship. 

1114
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:21,600
And go forward and create a meet
up for your local area. 

1115
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:27,040
Or you you'll create a company 
or you'll create an article 

1116
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:30,120
together or you'll create a 
podcast together or something to

1117
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:33,600
help other people understand. 
To help your local community 

1118
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:35,280
understand. 
Maybe you'll get together and go

1119
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:37,720
around and try and orange pill 
all your favorite bars and 

1120
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,360
cafes. 
And just can you please accept 

1121
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,280
Bitcoin? 
This is how you do it. 

1122
01:05:43,160 --> 01:05:45,040
And then we can put you on BTC 
maps. 

1123
01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:47,960
And then other people, when they
visit the city or this town, 

1124
01:05:47,960 --> 01:05:51,280
they can come and you've just 
opened up a whole new business 

1125
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,640
line, whole new revenue line you
didn't know existed. 

1126
01:05:54,920 --> 01:05:57,440
So you're adding value to the 
community, but you're also 

1127
01:05:57,440 --> 01:06:00,720
giving yourself the opportunity 
to bring other bitcoiners to 

1128
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,160
come and meet you, and to come 
and find you, and to build out 

1129
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:05,240
this social layer. 
It's huge. 

1130
01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:10,600
And it can't go under 
appreciated so. 

1131
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:14,080
Yeah, more of it. 
More more of conversations like 

1132
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:17,240
this more more podcasts. 
More YouTube videos. 

1133
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:21,520
And it's so amazing to see. 
I saw one the other day that I 

1134
01:06:21,520 --> 01:06:25,120
didn't even know existed. 
Like Bitcoin veterans, three ex 

1135
01:06:25,120 --> 01:06:28,200
military guys interviewing ex 
military guys. 

1136
01:06:28,640 --> 01:06:32,120
Like this is awesome. 
Like you know this is bring it 

1137
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:37,760
on and and what's next you know 
I I can't wait to the for the 

1138
01:06:37,760 --> 01:06:41,000
day where we have a high 
profile. 

1139
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:42,920
I know it's happened in the 
States. 

1140
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:47,560
We've got high profile athletes,
but high profile athlete, maybe 

1141
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:51,840
in Europe that starts their own 
podcast and starts bringing on 

1142
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,760
other athletes to either orange 
peel them or they are orange 

1143
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,840
peeled and they want to come on 
and share their story because 

1144
01:06:59,080 --> 01:07:02,080
their reach will just explode. 
Yeah, but that is still just 

1145
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:05,440
building out the the social 
layer of Bitcoin and getting 

1146
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:08,760
people connected and 
understanding that there's 

1147
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,160
something going on here. 
It's good for me. 

1148
01:07:11,520 --> 01:07:14,200
It's good for you. 
It's good for our community. 

1149
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:17,520
And all the way back to what you
said at the beginning, you know,

1150
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,120
it's rules. 
Without rulers we don't have 

1151
01:07:20,120 --> 01:07:23,680
anybody telling us what to do, 
what we can build, what we can't

1152
01:07:23,680 --> 01:07:25,720
build, what we can say, what we 
can't say. 

1153
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:31,640
OK, maybe in the maybe your 
YouTube channel gets shut down 

1154
01:07:31,640 --> 01:07:34,640
or whatever for for spreading 
medical misinformation, but you 

1155
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:39,960
know, but you are protecting 
yourself with people around you.

1156
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:44,160
Who have the same, who have seen
this, have been on the same 

1157
01:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,920
journey, have the same beliefs, 
understand the problem at hand, 

1158
01:07:48,280 --> 01:07:51,120
know what the fix is and are 
willing to put their neck on the

1159
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:54,360
line and educate others. 
Whereas many, many people 

1160
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:55,800
wouldn't. 
They don't want to stand up, 

1161
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:59,000
they just want to stay anonymous
and that's perfectly fine as 

1162
01:07:59,000 --> 01:08:04,120
well. 
But these conversations and 

1163
01:08:04,120 --> 01:08:07,480
building out this, this, this 
layer, the social layer is, is 

1164
01:08:07,480 --> 01:08:09,760
very, very important as we go 
forward into next. 

1165
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:12,120
Yeah, we go to Harvard next 
year. 

1166
01:08:12,120 --> 01:08:13,360
How many people are going to 
come? 

1167
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:16,080
How many people are going to 
come? 

1168
01:08:16,080 --> 01:08:18,160
Yeah, When? 
Like. 

1169
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:20,240
So we've got to be ready as a 
community. 

1170
01:08:20,240 --> 01:08:24,680
We've got to be ready to have 
all of the tools ready and all 

1171
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:28,000
of the education ready. 
And with each cycle, yeah, 

1172
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:30,439
whatever someone's angle is, 
right. 

1173
01:08:30,439 --> 01:08:34,080
I mean, you have the veterans. 
I focus on millennials, right. 

1174
01:08:34,080 --> 01:08:36,200
And it's just like, it doesn't 
matter. 

1175
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:38,880
And I think I had the exact same
experience actually, if you 

1176
01:08:39,279 --> 01:08:41,680
like. 
A month ago I went to Bitcoin 

1177
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,800
Amsterdam conference, my first 
Bitcoin conference and like my 

1178
01:08:44,840 --> 01:08:49,520
personal Bitcoin journey has 
been in a in a very tiny like 

1179
01:08:49,520 --> 01:08:52,880
local social circle. 
Also changed over the years, 

1180
01:08:52,880 --> 01:08:56,479
right. 
Right now I think I have maybe 

1181
01:08:56,560 --> 01:09:01,640
three people who I actively, you
know, meet and and and and talk 

1182
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,240
to. 
But when I went to the 

1183
01:09:03,240 --> 01:09:07,040
conference and I was in the back
of the room of talk by a 

1184
01:09:07,040 --> 01:09:11,000
Rational Root and I was like 
them, all these people like the 

1185
01:09:11,000 --> 01:09:14,359
same thing and are interested in
this same thing. 

1186
01:09:14,800 --> 01:09:18,080
That felt really amazing 
actually to see that, right, 

1187
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:22,120
that that. 
And I also talked with Thomas 

1188
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:26,640
Ferrer about this, that It's 
just so nice also these 

1189
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,680
conversations to realize that, 
you know, sometimes you end up 

1190
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:35,880
in your research or in your 
challenging your own thinking or

1191
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,880
trying to be rational. 
You end up in a place where you 

1192
01:09:37,880 --> 01:09:42,000
think, like, really, is this 
really how it works? 

1193
01:09:42,000 --> 01:09:44,399
Or is this now really my 
viewpoint on this, right? 

1194
01:09:44,399 --> 01:09:49,359
And it's hard to accept that. 
But once you have a conversation

1195
01:09:49,359 --> 01:09:52,640
and you reflect with someone 
else and you understand that 

1196
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:55,160
you're not the only one who's 
seeing the same thing like that 

1197
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:58,120
is that's just that's a good 
feeling. 

1198
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:03,840
Because then you see that you 
can also trust your own like bar

1199
01:10:03,840 --> 01:10:08,320
of how you are are putting in 
the work and trying to better 

1200
01:10:08,320 --> 01:10:10,280
yourself and and challenge 
yourself. 

1201
01:10:10,280 --> 01:10:14,240
And so yeah, I completely agree.
I absolutely lost that. 

1202
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,960
For the last, the last 10 
minutes here, let's talk about 

1203
01:10:17,480 --> 01:10:20,320
that that feeling that you get 
when you were at the conference 

1204
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:26,120
you you would have felt an 
energy right frequency, a higher

1205
01:10:26,120 --> 01:10:29,240
frequency. 
Than you would have done if you 

1206
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:38,680
were at a a new a new car 
convention or a or you know a 

1207
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:44,360
soft furnishing home convention 
or whatever, you know, industry.

1208
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,800
It's totally not entertainment. 
It's not like you have to pay 

1209
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:50,160
attention if you want to, right?
And that's why if. 

1210
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,200
You're if you're at the new car 
exhibition. 

1211
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:56,360
You'd think, right, Everybody's 
here for the same reason I'm 

1212
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:57,600
going to vibe with everybody 
here. 

1213
01:10:57,600 --> 01:10:59,840
But you walk around, ignore 
everyone because you just want 

1214
01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:01,720
to see the cars and you don't 
care who else is there. 

1215
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:04,320
Whereas you go to a Bitcoin 
conference, you end up missing 

1216
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:06,280
all of the freaking 
presentations because you're 

1217
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:08,000
talking. 
Yes, exactly. 

1218
01:11:08,520 --> 01:11:09,920
Everybody. 
That's all you sent through. 

1219
01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:11,400
Yeah. 
And that's also and. 

1220
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,880
And I met some people that I 
only knew from online, and it's 

1221
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,640
just like, I don't know, like 
you hug each other and it's like

1222
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,480
a high five. 
It's just like you already have 

1223
01:11:19,480 --> 01:11:22,000
some sort of mutual 
understanding. 

1224
01:11:22,000 --> 01:11:26,520
And that is just really inviting
to explore further, right? 

1225
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:29,000
And then again, it doesn't 
really matter where someone 

1226
01:11:29,000 --> 01:11:31,000
comes from or what else they 
believe. 

1227
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,760
Like that is fair. 
I don't know, maybe this is big,

1228
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,480
but I think like that is what 
the human connection is about, 

1229
01:11:38,480 --> 01:11:41,200
right? 
That that you connect, literally

1230
01:11:41,360 --> 01:11:49,480
connect with each other more in 
a in in in in like a spiritual 

1231
01:11:49,480 --> 01:11:50,320
way. 
Ish. 

1232
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:54,840
Then if you like Men United 
together, right? 

1233
01:11:54,840 --> 01:11:57,880
It's different. 
It's not that, you know, I'm not

1234
01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,440
bashing on Men United fans or 
whatever, but it's just a 

1235
01:12:01,440 --> 01:12:05,040
different experience. 
And yeah, I think that's very, 

1236
01:12:05,080 --> 01:12:07,960
very rewarding. 
And it definitely does not imply

1237
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:12,040
that we know everything. 
Absolutely not, right? 

1238
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:15,760
But it's fun and and and and 
engaging, naturally. 

1239
01:12:15,760 --> 01:12:19,720
Engaging to have that connection
and then meet other people you 

1240
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:24,320
know. 
And also now with this podcast, 

1241
01:12:24,320 --> 01:12:29,920
I I find it interesting to see 
that I because you've been doing

1242
01:12:29,920 --> 01:12:33,440
a podcast way longer, right? 
And I'm just starting out and I 

1243
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:35,120
felt like, should there be 
another podcast? 

1244
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,240
And then I think I felt like why
not? 

1245
01:12:37,240 --> 01:12:40,720
And now I'm doing it. 
It's so much fun, like it's just

1246
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:44,640
I'm meeting people all over the 
world and it's just really 

1247
01:12:44,640 --> 01:12:48,280
rewarding, right? 
So few numbers and all that 

1248
01:12:48,280 --> 01:12:52,080
stuff, it doesn't really matter 
because it's already really 

1249
01:12:52,080 --> 01:12:58,720
rewarding to just exchange ideas
and that's already enough. 100%,

1250
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,040
right? 
Man, we we've got a I've just 

1251
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,040
seen a time when I know we both 
have a hard, hard stop in around

1252
01:13:04,040 --> 01:13:07,600
6-6 minutes or so. 
So if you had one last orange 

1253
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:09,880
pill left to give to somebody, 
who would you give it to and 

1254
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,520
why? 
Who I would give that to? 

1255
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:25,160
Wow. 
Well to be honest I I would love

1256
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:31,640
for someone who is very well 
known to actually understand it 

1257
01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:33,800
and well known. 
I mean like just information 

1258
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,120
distribution wise that a lot of 
people would listen to what this

1259
01:13:37,120 --> 01:13:42,320
person has to say just to get 
the information out right? 

1260
01:13:42,320 --> 01:13:45,160
So I don't know, I'm thinking 
about like there should be a 

1261
01:13:45,160 --> 01:13:48,080
Bitcoin on Joe Rogan, right? 
Or someone like, I don't know, 

1262
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:51,120
Leonardo DiCaprio or The Rock or
whatever. 

1263
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:58,400
Just a person who has like a 
megaphone should actually like 

1264
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:03,680
discuss the problem that that we
touched upon just to have like 

1265
01:14:03,680 --> 01:14:08,600
an information symmetry so that 
people can start you know 

1266
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:11,560
because I think orange billing 
is the is the individual journey

1267
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:16,360
you cannot orange bill someone 
right I I I think that's yeah 

1268
01:14:16,760 --> 01:14:19,440
you you know it's it's a 
person's belief so I think that 

1269
01:14:19,440 --> 01:14:22,440
that would be my answer. 
So explaining the problem less 

1270
01:14:22,440 --> 01:14:24,680
orange billing explaining the 
problem you can talk about 

1271
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:28,240
Bitcoin but more like explaining
the problem information symmetry

1272
01:14:28,840 --> 01:14:34,720
from someone or by someone with 
just enough reach because I've I

1273
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:41,640
I also feel sometimes that if 
there's 8 or 800 million or 1 

1274
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:45,040
billion people that understand 
this it it's enough like not 

1275
01:14:45,080 --> 01:14:51,400
everyone has to understand it to
and they don't all have to move 

1276
01:14:51,400 --> 01:14:53,120
away from the current system. 
Right. 

1277
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:56,200
I think. 
I think the people that have to 

1278
01:14:56,200 --> 01:14:59,240
move away from the current 
system, the the total number is 

1279
01:14:59,240 --> 01:15:02,000
way less than what we actually 
think. 

1280
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:05,440
What is needed to make a change.
I I don't, I don't think it 

1281
01:15:05,440 --> 01:15:07,800
should be 5 billion people or 
something. 

1282
01:15:07,920 --> 01:15:12,360
I I I feels like it. 
It's less to show an actual 

1283
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:14,160
signal. 
Yeah. 

1284
01:15:14,480 --> 01:15:17,120
Gradually, then, suddenly, 
ladies and gentlemen, we'll see.

1285
01:15:17,520 --> 01:15:21,920
Well people can find you at 
Brown K Yeah on on Twitter and 

1286
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,480
the podcast is Bitcoin for 
Millennials. 

1287
01:15:25,480 --> 01:15:28,960
Well and your podcast is once 
bitten, right We're gonna we're 

1288
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,560
gonna cross publish this I'll 
add your Twitter in the show 

1289
01:15:32,560 --> 01:15:36,680
notes and yeah thanks so much 
for this conversation. 

1290
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:42,400
I love that we just, you know 
without any prep we just did 

1291
01:15:42,400 --> 01:15:44,360
this. 
I think that's super fun. 

1292
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:48,360
Let's definitely do it again and
maybe, yeah, we can talk through

1293
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:50,440
the stages of grief and 
connected to Bitcoin. 

1294
01:15:50,480 --> 01:15:54,640
I think that's that's a fun. 
Fun fun exercise. 

1295
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:57,360
I'm looking forward to your PDF 
presentation. 

1296
01:15:57,360 --> 01:16:00,680
Yes, OK, The Rabbit Hole journey
and Five stages of Grief. 

1297
01:16:00,880 --> 01:16:03,320
And sure. 
Anyway, enjoy the rest of your 

1298
01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:04,600
day brother. 
Great to have another 

1299
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:06,000
conversation. 
Cheers. 

1300
01:16:06,440 --> 01:16:09,240
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
If you did, it would be amazing 

1301
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,040
if you could rate, review and 
subscribe on the podcast 

1302
01:16:12,040 --> 01:16:15,000
platform of your choice. 
It will help us educate more 

1303
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,120
millennials on the importance of
Bitcoin. 

1304
01:16:17,360 --> 01:16:19,120
You can follow and connect with 
me on Twitter. 

1305
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:23,240
I'm Bram K That's at BR. 
AM K, and if you are or know 

1306
01:16:23,240 --> 01:16:25,640
someone who has an interesting 
perspective on Bitcoin that's 

1307
01:16:25,640 --> 01:16:28,640
worth sharing, hit me up. 
I read and reply to every single

1308
01:16:28,640 --> 01:16:30,520
message. 
I appreciate your support and 

1309
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:32,280
hope you'll be here for the next
episodes. 

1310
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:33,760
Thanks for listening. 
Bye.