1 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:18,440 So Neil, welcome back to the show. 2 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,440 How we doing? Very well. 3 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:20,440 Thank you. Thanks for the invite. 4 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:21,960 Good, good. Well, great to have you here and 5 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,120 anyone watching as well. We're in the meeting room today, 6 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:25,720 which I don't normally get let out of the cupboard. 7 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:27,680 Normally I'm in the studio. So great to be here. 8 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,800 Great to have you face to face as well, Neil. 9 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:31,800 And you're part of Judge Me. Now. 10 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,160 Tell us a bit about Judge Me, what you guys do and what is 11 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:36,280 your big claim to fame in the shop fire space? 12 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,520 Judge Me, Judge Me is like an e-commerce hang. 13 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:41,520 It's like it's a platform that no one's heard of yet. 14 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:46,080 We've got 500,000 customers. So we are we've got lots to talk 15 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:47,400 about. We are 10 years old. 16 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:49,200 We've just turned 10. So we're very excited about 17 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,160 turning 10 and as a Shopify app that's quite significant. 18 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,160 We have just reached 40,000 reviews on the Shopify App 19 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,960 Store, the 1st to do so. And that's merchants that have 20 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,480 reviewed your app. Merchants have reviewed our apps 21 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,080 and the majority are five stars, so please go and have a look at 22 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:06,680 those reviews because we're all about reviews. 23 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:11,120 Look at those reviews. It talks very highly of us about 24 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,160 our support, our pricing and what have you and features. 25 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,160 And lastly and probably more more impressive is the fact that 26 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,480 we are the most downloaded app on the Shopify App Store. 27 00:02:21,480 --> 00:02:24,320 We don't just integrate with Shopify, but that is our main 28 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,680 focus. But we're 400 and 84190, 29 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,240 probably 500 by the end of this merchants, you know we are the 30 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:32,920 biggest on Shopify. So we're very proud of that. 31 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:34,760 Yeah, yeah. And as you say, amazing. 32 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,400 I mean, it's quite a lean team, isn't it? 33 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,160 I've been to the office and you guys, and for anyone who's 34 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,080 thinking like, oh, I run an app and I'm listening to this about 35 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,480 judge me, Neil actually runs meet ups in London as well, 36 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:45,720 which you're very welcome to come along to. 37 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,080 I I've been to, I think I missed the first one you ran, but I've 38 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:50,880 been to all the ones since and they talk about like how you 39 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,800 guys have got the built for built for Shopify badge, how 40 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,520 you've got so many reviews and also like opening the floor to 41 00:02:56,520 --> 00:02:58,200 other app developers and a whole world. 42 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,000 I've never really thought about is people that actually build 43 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,800 the apps that we use on Shopify. We work a lot in marketing and 44 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,240 agencies, but but in the meet ups it's been so successful, 45 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:06,320 hasn't it? Yeah, it's growing. 46 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,720 It's growing. We sort of reintroduced them 47 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,320 again the back end of last year. We had a Christmas special that 48 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,360 you were part of. So thank you again. 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,960 I did, yes. That was really good and really, 50 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,400 well, you know, it was about 50 or 60 people, but you're right, 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,320 it's app developers, there's agencies, a sprinkling of 52 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:24,880 merchants that get a lot of attention. 53 00:03:24,880 --> 00:03:25,840 And they wonder how they got there. 54 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,960 Yeah, yeah. But we are trying to improve 55 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,280 that. We're trying to get just a bit 56 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:32,240 of a mix between agencies, devs, you know, app builders, all that 57 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,680 sort of stuff. And we do give you some of our 58 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,520 secrets away. So how we get to be most 59 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,800 downloaded app on Shopify, which with the growth of Shopify, 60 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,200 especially over the last three to five years, that's pretty 61 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:44,520 significant. So we're very proud of that. 62 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,080 But yeah, next Shopify meet up in London on the 13th of 63 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:49,120 February. Yeah, yeah. 64 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:50,880 And the Shopify growth has been insane. 65 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,920 I mean, just to give a stat, we we had some guy, Tim Sumner, 66 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:55,640 he's not at Shopify anymore, but we had him on the show a few 67 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:57,280 years ago. I think it was at the end of 68 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,880 2020 when COVID was obviously kicking off and it was all going 69 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,000 wrong for lots of reasons. But he said that in three months 70 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,280 between March when we went into lockdown in the UK and June, 71 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,560 just over those three months, the number of Shopify stores in 72 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,600 the UK doubled. Just to give an idea of the 73 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,840 growth. And every, every man and his dog 74 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:14,200 going, I'm going to start my own store. 75 00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:16,000 And it's, it's so good to enable that. 76 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,240 Obviously when we spoke about it from the show a lot before, like 77 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,959 it, it causes problems, I think as well for a lot of industries 78 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:24,240 where it's like, OK, I now have 45,000,000 competitors and 79 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:27,560 yesterday I only had two and a lot of them won't exist in six 80 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:28,680 months. Like there's a, there's a lot of 81 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,320 other problems with it, but just the growth has been insane and 82 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:32,800 the amount of businesses that have come out of that. 83 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,560 But obviously you guys, you focus on product reviews and I 84 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:38,120 think everybody knows what a product review is. 85 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:41,000 So we'll skim over that bit. If you don't Google it, you're 86 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:44,360 watching the wrong show. But if, if people want to know 87 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,160 more about what's happening this year, like how are they 88 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,200 evolving? How are how are you finding some 89 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,280 of the merchants who are really making the most out of product 90 00:04:50,280 --> 00:04:53,840 reviews, especially compared to service reviews or worst of all, 91 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,240 companies that don't do any user generated content at all? 92 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,880 Yeah. But interestingly, there's 93 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,400 there's 50% on Shopify that actually don't have any review 94 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:01,960 platform at all. And I'm just going to assume 95 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,560 that they're very fairly small and you know, they're a little 96 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,640 bit sensitive to feedback, but when they grow, they like to get 97 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,880 feedback. And we do product reviews, we do 98 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,440 store reviews. What's coming in 2025? 99 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,840 It's a good question. And I don't want to jump on the 100 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:21,120 AI bandwagon, but it is probably more integrations with, with 101 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,240 tech like AI. And I think for businesses, a 102 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,880 lot of businesses are adopting AI, They can, it can save them 103 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,760 time and money, which then could obviously be passed on to their 104 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:31,280 their clients or their consumers. 105 00:05:32,840 --> 00:05:35,840 But people or platforms in the review space have got to be 106 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,200 careful. It's a 2 edged play with review 107 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,680 platforms, you've got the businesses that pay for the 108 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:43,280 service and then you've got the consumers. 109 00:05:43,840 --> 00:05:48,760 And if you're a platform that talks about AI As for a 110 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,480 merchant, that can save you time and money and what have you. 111 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:53,880 Actually, if that gets back to the consumer, the consumers 112 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,080 don't necessarily like the fact that they might not be speaking 113 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,360 to a human. So we know around 60% of 114 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,200 consumers don't like the fact that AI play a part in customer 115 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,560 service they. Want to talk to a human? 116 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:05,760 They want to talk to and I'm I'm no different as well. 117 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,440 I don't mind the first couple of questions. 118 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,600 What's your name, What's your account number, But after that I 119 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,200 want to speak to a human. So you've got to be careful as a 120 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,920 as a review platform, but as a merchant as well in implementing 121 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,840 AI that actually it's going to have an impact on the customer 122 00:06:18,840 --> 00:06:21,760 service you offer because reviews is again, it's customer 123 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,280 service. So I would say the AI that we've 124 00:06:25,280 --> 00:06:29,640 got or we've got coming allows you to summarise particular 125 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,760 products. So you might have 50 or 60 126 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,600 reviews rather than reading all the reviews. 127 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,720 Our AI summary will now you know that you know, this green 128 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:38,160 jersey, which is lovely by the way. 129 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,200 You know, it just comes up emergency, it comes up a little 130 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,280 bit, you know, a little bit small if you're a medium or 131 00:06:44,280 --> 00:06:46,360 whatever it might be. So it summarises that, but it 132 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,760 all occurs to summarise your store reviews as well. 133 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,680 So AI definitely, but used in the right way. 134 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:56,240 Let me give you an example. You know you can't unring a bell 135 00:06:56,240 --> 00:06:58,880 if a delivery's been late, someone leaves you a review for 136 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:01,480 for late delivery. There's not a lot you can do and 137 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:03,840 you put a nice response and we recommend that you respond to 138 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:05,720 those reviews. However, put in the same 139 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,760 response to every single one star review again is a little 140 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,080 bit samey. Use AI and give you some hints 141 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:13,720 and tips on how to respond to those reviews. 142 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,800 That's the worst thing when some of our clients come back to us 143 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,880 and say like, Oh yeah, we just copy and paste, like thanks for 144 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,200 the review. And I'm like, don't do that. 145 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,880 Like especially as and we'll talk about it a bit more as it 146 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:23,280 unfolds. And for anyone who's not 147 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:25,960 listened this before, I run a PPCSEO agency and reviews are so 148 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:28,680 important to SEO and as much as PPC when people land. 149 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,200 We're going to talk about that implementation as we as we go 150 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,400 through the episode today. But one of the biggest things we 151 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:35,680 find is if you write the same thing over and over, Google just 152 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,720 straight away go obviously a copy and paste. 153 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,640 The value of that now has been decreased quite dramatically. 154 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,000 And whether that's responding to reviews and you're not going to 155 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,160 say otherwise, I assume, but everyone should respond to 156 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,440 reviews, shouldn't they? Negative and positive, You know, 157 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,640 thanks for your review. I hope you enjoy your new table 158 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,400 and or whatever it is, But equally, I think the tendency is 159 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,320 just to respond to the negative ones and and sometimes I see 160 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:58,320 brands. It'd be good to get your 161 00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:00,240 thoughts on this. I see them almost like try and 162 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,000 argue back. They almost go like, oh, but you 163 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:05,560 didn't do this. And it's like, no, I think your 164 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,520 potential customers are going to read all of this like there's 165 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,120 such a bad way of entering into it. 166 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,600 So what? Obviously you can use AI to 167 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,320 start to change some of those responses just to say if it's a 168 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,480 good review, give some variation on. 169 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:17,880 Thank you so much. Really appreciate, enjoy your 170 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,800 products and give that. But how should they approach 171 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,360 certainly that negative, the negative reviews like was it was 172 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,920 a good way of dealing with those and obviously it's not to delete 173 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:28,160 them. You've always been very big on 174 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,040 on saying that to me as well. Like we're not trying to hide 175 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,400 them, we're not trying to delete them, but how do you respond to 176 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,520 that stuff? Well, firstly, like you know who 177 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,280 better to listen to than your, your, your customers, right? 178 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,960 So the feedback that you get, if it's positive or or negative, 179 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:42,880 then we recommend that you respond. 180 00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:46,120 So negative reviews you want to respond within 48 hours and 181 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,320 unanswered negative review is damaging your brand and you 182 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:51,320 might, you know, I'm going to respond in a weeks time. 183 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,360 In that time between the, the, the the review landing and a 184 00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,760 weeks time is is having an impact on your brand. 185 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:01,120 So we suggest but within 48 hours that you respond, please 186 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,600 count to 10 and respond and please don't argue back except 187 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,320 it they've taken time out of their day to leave you a review 188 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,960 and you must accept it and respond in an appropriate way. 189 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,880 Please don't ask them to send you an e-mail. 190 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:19,720 Their e-mail is then making contact with you. 191 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,280 Your next thing should be either try and rectify it there and 192 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:26,160 then if you can, if not take it offline but please leave a 193 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,600 response then we will contact you on your e-mail address. 194 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,320 We will sort this out. Or even better, we've contacted 195 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:35,200 you like yes, looking forward to your response. 196 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,720 Yes, hope we can resolve this. Like yeah, we don't want you 197 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:40,000 having a bad experience. It's it's not who we are or what 198 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:41,240 we're about. So really sorry this has 199 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,160 happened and. What that can provoke is is them 200 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:46,240 editing their original review. So they might have given you a 2 201 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,280 star originally. The way that you handle that, 202 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,200 that's how you get advocates for your business. 203 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,880 Not when everything goes absolutely fine, it's when 204 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:56,680 something doesn't go so well and you've gone out and you've 205 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:58,400 pulled up trees to actually make it better. 206 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:01,840 That's when you get advocates for your business that return 207 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,920 time and time again. On the positive front, you're 208 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,240 absolutely right. Use AI just so it's not thanks 209 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,400 for your review, but also understand that the response is 210 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,520 user generated content. So actually you could 211 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,160 potentially put some keywords in there that you could be like, 212 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,400 thanks for reviewing the best lamp company in Surrey. 213 00:10:19,680 --> 00:10:21,880 So when people are looking for the best lamp company in Surrey, 214 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,480 that review might be showing up in in search engines. 215 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:27,200 Absolutely, and with reviews as well. 216 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,120 I always find it mad when some companies like you look at their 217 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:33,760 judge me or any other platforms and you can tell where people 218 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,880 are paying for it or not because if you're paying for it, it 219 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:38,280 sends out invites to ask people could you leave us a review 220 00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:40,720 please? If you don't do that, the amount 221 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,440 of negative reviews, you just get this like we're A1 star 222 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,600 company and you're actually that is being projected whether you 223 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:50,040 like it or not and it so it is important I think and obviously 224 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:52,840 you guys are one platform. We're a bit more agnostic when 225 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,000 it comes to review platforms. You guys sit in a really 226 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,920 important part of the market as do other platforms. 227 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,440 It's so important to actually look at that, isn't it? 228 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:01,800 Like search your brand and the word reviews and go, we look 229 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,600 awful on these two platforms and actually like, you know, Judge 230 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:05,960 Me is great. But because we're not listed on 231 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,560 the main Judge Me site in the same way, we might be on another 232 00:11:08,560 --> 00:11:11,000 competitor. And actually we don't need to do 233 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,480 as much cleaning up on here or it's $15.00 a month as I think 234 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,960 one of your biggest USPS. And you keep saying at the 235 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,040 meetups, and I'll say it's not changing. 236 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,760 Everyone keeps asking you at the meetups like when's it going up? 237 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:23,600 And you're like, well, we don't have any plans to. 238 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:25,240 What's inflation? Never heard of it. 239 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,800 So yeah, you're right. And we have a free plan as well, 240 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,840 don't forget. So I guess what it is, is if you 241 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,800 invite all of your customers on one particular platform, you 242 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:36,240 won't get reviews on other platforms. 243 00:11:36,240 --> 00:11:37,520 So you won't have to manage those. 244 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,840 So what I would say is invite all of your review, all of your 245 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,000 customers have it all in one place because you know there is 246 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:45,920 going to be negative reviews, but it's going to be surrounded 247 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,920 by positive reviews, but also that your responses to to those 248 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,360 negative reviews as well. Yep. 249 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,360 So use our free plan, send out all of your invites, have it all 250 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,200 in one place because I can imagine that as a, as a brand 251 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:00,560 owner, having reviews all left, right and centre all on the 252 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:03,640 front page of of Google when you want it to actually either be 253 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:07,960 your true, you know, reputation or you know, other things around 254 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,080 your business rather than a negative review here, there and 255 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,640 everywhere that you know, it might be on a forum that you 256 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,720 can't even get access to. Let's try and sound those out 257 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:20,520 with your reviews all on one platform, preferably judge me 258 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,280 for free. And so that becomes top of the 259 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,320 search engines rather than a review that you can't see or 260 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,080 respond to and. I think it's a really good point 261 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,160 actually. If you send out a review invite, 262 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,760 they're not going to go to the other platforms. 263 00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:35,400 Let's talk though as well about if the other one of the other 264 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,240 platforms suddenly in one day you've gone from like 1 review a 265 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:41,600 month and it's always a -1 on a platform somewhere and suddenly 266 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:44,880 one day you get 1000 of them. There's been a real rise of 267 00:12:44,880 --> 00:12:46,440 that, isn't it, where you've got fake reviews? 268 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,040 And I think Amazon especially have been trying to stomp it out 269 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,560 on the Amazon platform, which obviously a completely different 270 00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:54,280 to what judge me and other review partners do. 271 00:12:54,280 --> 00:12:58,120 But how do you tackle that? Like what, what, what sets apart 272 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,440 a fake review from a real 1? And why should you care? 273 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,360 Like, why shouldn't a brand just go on eBay, which I, I checked 274 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:06,360 by the way, on eBay you can buy all sorts. 275 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:10,120 Now you can buy like 1000 reviews on any review platform 276 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,080 for like $20 and they all appear in the same hour. 277 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:15,000 They just go like, this is a great brand. 278 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:16,240 I love this product. This is amazing. 279 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,600 And it's like what's happening in that space? 280 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,440 Because obviously it's it gives somebody an unfair advantage if 281 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,160 they are successful with that. Well, you mentioned eBay and 282 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,920 that's probably where we as consumers come firstly in touch 283 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,960 with reviews, right? It was eBay and Amazon wasn't 284 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,320 actually reviews and stuff and it built those particular 285 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:36,680 platforms and communities. So it's interesting that because 286 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,000 we've been around for reviews for a very long time, we can, 287 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,640 you know, we're pretty good at sniffing out these these fake 288 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,800 reviews, you know, and in the early days it was either, you 289 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:46,880 know, as a brand, you know, you're starting from scratch. 290 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,280 Where do I start from? You know, how do I get that 291 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:50,960 first review? And so it is a little bit 292 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:52,920 chicken and egg. However, we do recommend that 293 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:56,160 you don't write your reviews yourself because it is so damn 294 00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,560 obvious. And that does a lot worse to 295 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:02,160 your brand than actually having, you know, we call it low social 296 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,520 proof, which is obviously a challenge, but it's something 297 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,880 that you're obviously going to build up on on time. 298 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:09,720 And the more you build up the your reputation, the more people 299 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,920 are going to trust you. But please don't buy 1000 300 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,240 reviews from from eBay because as you say, they. 301 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,520 Only help your SEO I can tell. You that and they're all time 302 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,200 stamped and you know that they often they're very generic. 303 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,120 It's like I love this product. It's not talking about the 304 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,320 products not adding keywords and user generated content. 305 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,000 You can't use it in your socials. 306 00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,280 You can't use it on your offline advertising or anything, so be 307 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:33,360 patient. Do it the right way. 308 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:38,040 Consumers will, will, will appreciate that and and and 309 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:39,640 trust you more. Yeah, absolutely. 310 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,680 And when we, when we've got the reviews and this is where like 311 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:46,120 we really come into play as an SEOPBC agency is we send someone 312 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,600 to the site or we're trying to get that ranking on SEO so we 313 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,600 can send more people into site. They land there and it's really 314 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,760 important to get them to convert. 315 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:54,920 Otherwise, you're paying for traffic or you're working. 316 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,320 Even if you're paying for the traffic, it's organic traffic. 317 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,800 You're not paying for the traffic itself to come in, but 318 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:00,840 you're doing some work somewhere. 319 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:02,680 You're paying someone somehow to get it there. 320 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:05,720 What can we do on the website? What should brands be thinking 321 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,840 about when they actually implement some of the widgets 322 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,120 putting review content on page? What are some of the basics 323 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:13,160 there? Even some of the biggest, most 324 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,200 awesome corporate brands, as you and I know, get completely 325 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:17,400 wrong. Yeah, that's true. 326 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,040 So I would say you need some trust signals. 327 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,400 So on those landing pages, we know that, you know, people have 328 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,280 10 or 12 seconds to understand if they can trust your business. 329 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,800 So have some trust signals. It doesn't have to be reviews. 330 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,080 However, reviews is very, very easy and very affordable way to 331 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,120 actually build trust on your website. 332 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,960 So it could be a picture of Nick on the front of his website, you 333 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,000 know, things like that, a telephone number, you can call 334 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:42,960 us at any time. These sorts of things really do 335 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,160 build trust. However, obviously very easy to 336 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:47,440 just have reviews. So I would say recommend that 337 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,680 you have reviews potentially preferably above the fold that 338 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,400 people can see and they can gain that sort of trust with your 339 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,480 brand very, very early on. You know, we could talk about 340 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,040 trust gap and the trust gap is the difference between, you 341 00:16:02,040 --> 00:16:04,360 know, a borrow and a seller. How do you fill that trust gap? 342 00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,480 You know we recommend you fill it with authentic customer 343 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:09,520 reviews. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 344 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,600 And something you guys do that I find amazing. 345 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,640 And some of our clients that use Judge Me have done this. 346 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,440 And one in particular, they sell phone cases. 347 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,520 And I know they're probably listening to High Tim, but on 348 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,960 their website it's amazing the way that they've got like 349 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,320 multiple cases in multiple colours for multiple models of 350 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,080 Samsung phones, for example. But it's one case, they've 351 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:31,040 generated one set of reviews that show on all of them, which 352 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,040 means it it shows like 8000 people have reviewed this phone 353 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:35,760 case. What I love in the Judge Me 354 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,840 widget they're actually using on it, though, is it says like, you 355 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:39,520 know, is it a good fit? Is it well priced? 356 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,600 Is it good quality? I can't with the exact things on 357 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,840 it, but it has that kind of like these little bars and because 358 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,120 I've got so many reviews, they're like top of all of them, 359 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,000 which if you're looking for a decent phone case, especially 360 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,960 they're really famous for their wallet phone cases. 361 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,360 You've got a wallet phone case. It nothing speaks more than that 362 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,040 going look 8000 people have said this is an awesome phone case. 363 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:01,040 It's it's basically got top marks in in all of this. 364 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,440 There are still a few negative reviews in there and like you've 365 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,400 always kind of preached to me, which is absolutely right. 366 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,040 So keep the negative ones in there. 367 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,800 Like people often just filter reviews by negative ones to go, 368 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,400 what are people even complaining about? 369 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:13,520 And the thing I'm always thinking like, are they nutters 370 00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:16,079 is like, I look at the negative and go clearly a Nutter. 371 00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:18,280 Like, why are you expecting this product to take you to the moon? 372 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,240 It's not going to do that. It's a phone case. 373 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,520 Yeah, but certainly that, I mean, widgets like that are so 374 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:24,599 powerful, especially on a product page when we're sending 375 00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:27,760 Google Shopping traffic in. I don't know if you've got any 376 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:30,360 user stats and brief you with this in advance, but what are 377 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:33,000 some of the most popular widgets or best, best working widgets 378 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,840 would you say for reviews beyond, as you say, having above 379 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,080 the fold, but you could just put a five star thing at the top, 380 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:40,160 yeah. What are some of the other 381 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,520 widgets there good to use? We have widgets that are 382 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,600 scrollable by Google. Is that a word? 383 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,200 I don't know, but your content is actually. 384 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:51,880 Google can see that. That's definitely, definitely 385 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,680 worth doing and you know, you really want your bulk of your 386 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,520 reviews in one particular place, but please signpost them. 387 00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:01,360 So when you know towards like call to actions like buy it now 388 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:05,000 or add to car, you want to you want to an indication of your 389 00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:08,160 the review score there. So have your reviews all in one 390 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,000 place, but definitely signpost for important areas. 391 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:13,040 What you say is very interesting. 392 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,000 So have the ability for whatever review platform you use to be 393 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,160 able to respond because you say you have the negative reviews, 394 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,920 you know, not as you could use the word not as, but you know, 395 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,160 there are people that have their wrong expectations, right and 396 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:28,840 and the ability to actually respond to that for people to 397 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,440 see. Look, we've seen it. 398 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,520 It's actually, you know, you're being a little bit unreasonable 399 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,080 here. People understand that and they 400 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,840 get that, but without seeing that, they think that you're 401 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,880 you're hiding reviews. So if you're just getting five 402 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,960 star reviews, they're thinking, well, what you're hiding when 403 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,160 when something does go wrong, which often it does, you're not 404 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,000 letting me see that. So maybe you'll stick your head 405 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,000 in the sand if something goes wrong with me, my purchase. 406 00:18:48,360 --> 00:18:51,120 But the other bit you mentioned about the attributes of the 407 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:55,280 product reviews answer a hell of a lot of questions people might 408 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:56,600 have about that product. Yeah, yeah. 409 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:58,600 Is it a good fit? What's the quality like? 410 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:00,240 You know, when's it delivered on time? 411 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,080 So actually, you know, it it will stop either maybe phone 412 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,280 calls through to you or emails through to you about those 413 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,960 particular things or thinking I can find that answer on a on 414 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,240 someone else with a different product. 415 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,360 So they might you might lose them. 416 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,760 So actually product reviews, not only did it help with 417 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,400 conversion, help with trust in that product, it answers a hell 418 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,840 of a lot of questions about the product as well. 419 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:20,640 Yeah, yeah. And I mean, two things that just 420 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:22,840 sprung to mind from that that we've learnt just purely by 421 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,360 reading reviews like nothing else apart from just reading 422 00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:27,960 them as an SEO agency. The first one is content we 423 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,200 create because we look at, we look at what people have said 424 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,680 and gone. All right, everyone's saying how 425 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,880 fantastic. Or one of our clients in 426 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,160 particular, like they make organic cotton T-shirts and 427 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:37,960 everyone raised about how soft they are. 428 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:40,640 It's the point where I sat down recently and said, like, what do 429 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:41,840 people buy from me? And they went down all the 430 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,680 sustainability and it's made to measure and made on order. 431 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,360 And I'm like, no, no, no, it's soft. 432 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:48,560 Everyone wants to feel a really soft garment. 433 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,680 So it's soft. But we, we then like looked to 434 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,200 the page and went, the only time the word soft is mentioned or 435 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,480 any similar words and I actually used ChatGPT and said, pull all 436 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,800 the words out of this page and tell me where they were that 437 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,680 relate to the term soft. And ChatGPT came back and said 438 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,000 to me like it's only in the reviews. 439 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:05,920 It's like we've positioned this product wrong. 440 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,800 The reason people are buying this product is not what we've 441 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:09,920 taken to market. Suddenly Google Ads has been 442 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,360 updated, SEO meta description's been updated, on page copy's 443 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:14,720 been updated, their images. Now instead of someone like, you 444 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,760 know, sort of standing on top of a mountain with their hands on 445 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,240 their hips, now it's someone like this who's come back out 446 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,800 the sea after surfing or they've come off the mountain and now 447 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,160 they're going, oh, that's soft. And realising actually that 448 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,080 that's the most common use case, even though most people just 449 00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:29,440 wear it to work in the office day-to-day, but that's what 450 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:31,400 they're, that's part of the brand experience, you know, the 451 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:54,440 entertainment factor of it. And the other thing that we, 452 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,920 we've done quite a bit and and I've written the note delivery, 453 00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,640 it's when people get into cart. If we can work out using, I 454 00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,160 don't know, Microsoft Clarity or hot jar or something and watch a 455 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:05,360 video of someone using the site when they get to the cart. 456 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,880 If we can work out what is it they've just been told that's 457 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,040 made the bounce off site. If we find there's a high bounce 458 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,080 rate when they reach the cart or the checkout or the basket. 459 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,800 If it's, if it always says shipping calculated at checkout 460 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,200 and when they reach the checkout page, then they jump. 461 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,880 Guess what? We need to put reviews and 462 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,600 actually Cherry even just, and it's really, really kind of 463 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,440 basic, just even just screenshot a couple of them and put that 464 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,640 image on the checkout or the basket page to say where 465 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,800 someone's gone. I was apprehensive about paying 466 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,080 £30 or $30.00 for my delivery. But actually two people coming 467 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,040 to deliver the item, they unpackaged it with a cup of tea 468 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,040 on the sofa afterwards. And I've used example loads 469 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,400 before when our client sells sofas. 470 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,040 And that's exactly what some of the reviews said. 471 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,440 And we've put those in the checkout process and on the 472 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,480 basket. Suddenly more people are going 473 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:48,280 through the cart process now. Genius. 474 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,160 And actually people are upgrading now to the two man 475 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,160 delivery instead of the one man. We have to call it person these 476 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:53,360 days. But the person delivery we've 477 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,280 had to more people now upgrading to the person, the two person 478 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,120 delivery instead of one person to go, yeah, they'll unbox my 479 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,360 product stuff extra £20 like grain value. 480 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,000 And they'll take the old sofa away. 481 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,920 Exactly. And and they turn up at like 482 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,280 9:00 on a Saturday if that's convenient with you. 483 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,000 So absolutely. And you can put the individual 484 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,920 reviews or you could use an AI summary to say, hey, look, this 485 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,120 is a white club service. You know, they turn, they can 486 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,000 go, they're convenient when they turn up and they take away your 487 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:22,040 old wardrobe, you know, adding big large furniture here sort of 488 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:23,480 thing. So yeah, no, absolutely. 489 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,520 And because when you're seeing 30 LB for delivery, there's no 490 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,680 context to it. This is adding context to say, 491 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,560 look, we're actually, it's white glove, we're putting up those 492 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,440 free. I live in a flat, so I want my 493 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,920 sofa going up those free flights stairs and then taking your old 494 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:38,800 one as well. I'd pay £50 for that. 495 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:40,640 So yeah, you need to add some context. 496 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:45,800 So, yeah, very, very smart way of using reviews at that point 497 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:47,840 where people potentially might, might lead the site. 498 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,040 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I guess one of the big 499 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,480 challenges people come up against with with reviews in 500 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,440 general and we get all the time from clients, when we say like, 501 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,440 right, we want a review platform, they try and say, oh, 502 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,880 I'm scared, you know, what are people going to say? 503 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,360 What are they going to write on this thing? 504 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,760 And we, we've often found like it's kind of, you know, nurture 505 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,400 people over the line. You don't have to post your 506 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,120 reviews immediately. Let's just start collecting and 507 00:23:09,120 --> 00:23:12,520 see what happens. What advice would you give to 508 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:13,960 someone just kind of starting out? 509 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:15,440 What's a good way to start with refuse? 510 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,360 Especially some like judge me where I don't in a bad way. 511 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:20,160 You guys are doing really well at the entry level. 512 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,320 Like it's $15, it's out-of-the-box. 513 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:25,320 It plugs in Shopify and because Shopify it sends out invites 514 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,560 people like. Automatically it's a low cost of 515 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,360 entry, right? It's a really low, it's a free 516 00:23:29,360 --> 00:23:32,000 right. So I would suggest, you know, 517 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,680 the way I put it is the worst review of all is the one you 518 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,680 don't see. How can you potentially turn 519 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,760 that customer around? How can you realise the lifetime 520 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,440 value of that customer if you don't get their feedback? 521 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,840 So yeah, you're right. People are sensitive to to 522 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:49,200 reviews early on. It's like telling them, you 523 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,360 know, your baby's ugly. You know, it's not something 524 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,760 that people like to do. So I'd say embracing the 525 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,320 feedback, you don't have to publish all of your feedback in 526 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,760 the early days, you know, learn from it. 527 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,400 You know, improve processes, improve products, Yeah, improve 528 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,160 customer service, whatever it is from those from that early 529 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:09,320 feedback. That's when you need the 530 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,400 feedback the most. But yeah, I can't think of 531 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,840 anyone else I want to listen to than than my customers. 532 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,240 So yeah, embrace it. Maybe start off with product 533 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,640 reviews and then obviously as you grow and customer service 534 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,760 becomes more of a thing, maybe then branch out into store or 535 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:29,480 service reviews as we call them. Or the only situation, I'd say 536 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:31,600 the other way around is if your products churn a lot, if you 537 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,280 kind of make one of each item, probably not the best idea is 538 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:36,560 get product reviews because you'll get like 1 review on one 539 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,160 item because you only had one, it's sold and it's not there 540 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,520 anymore. So yeah, we, when we worked, we 541 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,880 worked really heavily on the SEO strategy for TK Maxx for, for 542 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,720 many, many years and TJ Maxx for all of our American listeners. 543 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,440 And when we did that, like every single product was gone within 544 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,320 three months. So it's like we actually we had 545 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:55,320 to have a strategy that was based purely on service reviews 546 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,680 and the way we then showed those or position those certainly on 547 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,040 product pages, we had to be really careful. 548 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:03,440 We did quite a lot of testing in the end to go like, okay, which 549 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,000 is the best widget, guess the best conversion rate or the 550 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,760 widget that people engage with the most. 551 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,120 Those are our two sort of KPIs for doing tests, which I think 552 00:25:11,120 --> 00:25:14,640 worked pretty well in the end. What advice would you give to a 553 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,160 brand that was on a different platform? 554 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,720 I want to move to judge me or maybe not even judge me. 555 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:21,000 Maybe go from one platform to another. 556 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,520 Like how does it work with move? Because that's always the big 557 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,960 sticking point, isn't it? I've got 1000 reviews here. 558 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,440 I hate the platform. You've outgrown it. 559 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,280 We want something or we've moved from this platform to Shopify. 560 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,800 Now we want to out the box shop for what happens next, because 561 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,920 it's not all doom and gloom, is it? 562 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,240 But also like, it's not simple. No, it's not simple and it is a 563 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,440 challenge and it reviews is something that you maybe want to 564 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,280 stick with. The unfortunate thing that's 565 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:48,360 happening with reviews at the moment in our space is they're 566 00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:51,320 not all $15.00. So the total cost of ownership 567 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,560 is just spiraling out of control. 568 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,200 So people are like, OK, and especially at this time of year, 569 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:56,240 people are looking at their apps. 570 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,720 You spoke about it at the, the Shopify meter. 571 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:00,920 People are looking at apps. Where can I save money? 572 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:04,440 You know, it's, you know, it's a time for a bit of housekeeping 573 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,200 with your, your tech stack. So if you do have reviews with 574 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,120 another platform, we have a 24/7 support team. 575 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,920 If you do look at our reviews, it's all typically around how 576 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,000 good our support is. And that's one of our factors, 577 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,680 you know, of why we're successful. 578 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:22,080 We offer, we over deliver on our support. 579 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,400 So I would say use our support team and we have AI wouldn't say 580 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:30,280 a switch in service, but we have the ability for you to export 581 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,400 your reviews from another platform and import them in. 582 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:36,600 And we do a little bit of work to make sure that they all sync 583 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:39,640 up and look as they should. And we actually had that moving 584 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:41,320 one of our clients to judge me as we got to export. 585 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,920 I think it was only the product reviews that the previous we 586 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,000 won't say the name, it's a dirty word, but the other platform. 587 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:49,400 And when we left that they did, they did give us a full export 588 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:50,880 of just product reviews, not service. 589 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:52,880 And that was really powerful because as soon as we spoke to 590 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:54,440 your support team, yeah, they put it straight in within. 591 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,200 I think it was like a day or two to upload them all. 592 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,760 Yeah, nice. And so the client emails going 593 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,520 like, oh, website looks amazing. Look at all the reviews because 594 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,720 we we put the widget into the product page, so don't show it 595 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,080 if there's zero put a little bit of JavaScript on it, which we 596 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,480 thought was a smart idea. And and suddenly like over half 597 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,600 their products had like 10 to 20 reviews and client was loving it 598 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,680 and conversion rate jumped like it was really nice. 599 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,600 Annoyingly, they also went on sale that day. 600 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,800 So I didn't get a conclusive stat of like, how much 601 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,440 difference did it make? I, I scream at clients by AEB 602 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,960 testing stuff because you could put your widget on one version, 603 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,000 but not the other version and and actually go like, OK, 604 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,160 without it. We convert like this and with it 605 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,320 we convert like that. Reviews are important. 606 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,240 But I think as you said several times, I can't, I can't back it 607 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,960 enough that actually your customer service team, you can 608 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,520 do them a great service by getting rid of those reviews or 609 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,720 getting rid of those people that contact because the review 610 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,120 content says like, I didn't know about this. 611 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:43,040 I didn't know about that. And if customer service getting 612 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,920 the same question from an SEO content point of view, let's 613 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:48,440 answer that on the page. If they're all saying like will 614 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,000 it come in secure packaging since it's made of glass and 615 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:52,360 actually it's always secure packaging. 616 00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:54,800 It's like well, on the site it just says secure packaging. 617 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,200 But if we put like glass certified packaging, same 618 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,600 packaging, we just change the language on it, change the 619 00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:04,080 motive behind the way they read it and what they imagine. 620 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,560 So it's a much better thing. But again, then make sure we get 621 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,440 lots of reviews from customers saying, you know, you've emailed 622 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,320 customer service saying how fantastic the packaging was. 623 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:12,840 Do you mind writing that in a review for us? 624 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,680 That'd be amazing. And then we reply as well. 625 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,440 It's, it's, you know, we're trying to replicate what we used 626 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:19,840 to happen online on the on the high streets, right? 627 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:21,960 We can answer a ton of questions because you're in the shop and 628 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,640 the guys there with all the answers. 629 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:25,400 That's not necessarily the case online. 630 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,840 So if your reviews can answer questions that you've got, 631 00:28:28,360 --> 00:28:31,120 there's a really large pharmacy in, in Ireland. 632 00:28:31,120 --> 00:28:34,240 Hi Phil, If you're watching and he was like Neil, when we 633 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,280 started out, we came on with your review platform and the 634 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,080 phone stopped ringing. He said. 635 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,040 But it was a good thing because the orders were coming in but 636 00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:43,280 they just weren't ringing up saying are you legit? 637 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,040 Do you deliver to the UK? Do you do this? 638 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:48,800 It was all answered within their reviews. 639 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,160 Great delivery to the UK the next day. 640 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,560 Well, I had that question. Now I don't know. 641 00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,720 I know the answer. So yeah, you're absolutely 642 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,280 right. I think it's a great source of 643 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,680 information as well as adding trust to the product. 644 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,920 Yeah, Yeah. And I mean, final question, 645 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,480 we'll come into land with this. It's 2025 now. 646 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,200 Reviews have been out for a long time. 647 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,680 You mentioned AI, obviously see some of the response and stuff. 648 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,680 What else do you think is going to evolve and change this year? 649 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,400 Like what do you think of some of the big things that you're 650 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,600 already seeing brands like panicking about, get excited 651 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,560 about, throw too many eggs in one basket because of like, what 652 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,200 are some of the things you're seeing brands do at the moment? 653 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,800 That analogy you said about throwing all your eggs in one 654 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:25,960 basket is an interesting thing, right? 655 00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:28,280 Because there is lots of platforms out there that will do 656 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,720 everything for you there. Do your e-mail, that do your 657 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,240 SMS, that do your reviews that do your loyalty and all that 658 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,360 sort of stuff. And they tell a story that 659 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,240 that's what consumers want. That's not what we're hearing. 660 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,680 So we're hearing that consumers want best of breed. 661 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,920 So they want the best reviews, they want the best e-mail. 662 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,760 You know, these platforms say you have one account manager. 663 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,680 Well, they experts in, you know, everything, you know, does your 664 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,760 strike always, always, you know, safe penalties as well. 665 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:57,560 So I think best of breed is where consumers want. 666 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,080 Now the trick is to make sure that your text stack is all 667 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,680 connected. So yeah, is, is it great your, 668 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:06,480 your e-mail provider connects with your review provider? 669 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,560 Absolutely. So I think what Judge Me are 670 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,320 doing and doubling down on this year is making sure that we 671 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,600 connect with all the different text stacks that lots of 672 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,400 consumers have to make sure that they, they all talk to each 673 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,600 other. Are you going to have an account 674 00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,000 manager for all of them? Unfortunately not. 675 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,280 But you're going to get the best of breed and the best out of 676 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,120 all. The platforms you've, you've, 677 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,280 you've like tapped on the door of Pandora's box here about 678 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,000 apps. And there's, I think the 679 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,240 pendulum swings both ways. I, I've always favoured the, as 680 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,240 you say, best in class, like we are agency. 681 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,040 We only do two things. They both relate to search 682 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,120 engines. So it's one thing with two ways 683 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,440 we do it and that's it. And whenever we branch into 684 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,280 something else, we're just not as good at it. 685 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,880 And now you've got this one account manager used to be a 686 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:43,520 Jack of all trades. It is a problem. 687 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,040 The challenge I think brands have on Shopify especially. 688 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:49,640 And we, we spoke about it in a previous episode, guys, probably 689 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,200 a week or two before this was going out as well. 690 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,440 But we spoke about like how just every business owner, in fact, 691 00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:57,280 that phone case company, we're doing this at the moment with 692 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,200 you guys, we're deleting apps. We're like that was not being 693 00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:01,280 used. That was not happening. 694 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,080 One of our guests, Sabir, said a few weeks ago as well that it 695 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,560 might have been last week, I think when this goes, but he was 696 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,480 saying that like one of the clients they looked at had three 697 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,680 live chats on their site, only one of them was active. 698 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,200 And when you go on the website, so all three loaded in the code, 699 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,520 only one was active. And when you go on the website, 700 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:20,880 there's no live chat. So they were just running these 701 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,720 3 apps kills page speed. Plus he was like, they're paying 702 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:25,600 for all three, they're paying for these apps. 703 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,200 So I think with apps, I always say like, just be really 704 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:29,440 cautious. Like a review app. 705 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,680 I think you need a proper verified review platform that 706 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,160 plugs in, has some automation that's tech worth paying for. 707 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,960 And actually the front end page load is just the reviews, which 708 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,200 is something you should be loading on a page in my opinion. 709 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:43,680 It's when people are like, oh, we had a fancy widget that has a 710 00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,400 loading bar that says, you know, we spent 90 lbs, you spent 100 711 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640 to get free delivery. You could build that with a tiny 712 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,880 bit of JavaScript and that means there's a bit of JavaScript just 713 00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:53,160 loading straight off Shopify server that you've created 714 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,320 versus which I'm sure you guys see this as much as we do with 715 00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:58,320 with brands. You sort of sit there for an 716 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,360 hour waiting for this page to load and there's just stuff 717 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,000 popping up all over the place and you know, spin the wheel to 718 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,120 get a free offer. And then there's the welcome 719 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:06,440 offer and you're like, oh, I've just got an offer. 720 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,840 What does this offer do? And then customer service pops 721 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,560 up behind that is the accept cookies. 722 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,840 And until you accept, you can't engage with the page. 723 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,080 You're like, this is carnage, like absolute carnage. 724 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,080 So we try to say to clients like bottom left, bottom right only 725 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:19,680 and one thing in each corner, no more. 726 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,960 And that's that's kind of it. Obviously it's exceptions to the 727 00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,160 rule, but I think platform like you, you know that like judge me 728 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,960 that you guys have it loads quickly, it loads natively 729 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,400 within Shopify. And I think that's such an 730 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,920 important thing, isn't it, Having that native integration 731 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,320 rather than all these other servers trying to run stuff 732 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,200 externally? Got to keep it simple, but yeah, 733 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,080 we've got the Built for Shopify badge. 734 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,560 So that's the the highest sort of like award if you like for 735 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,160 Shopify. So, so it runs, it runs 736 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,040 smoothly. It doesn't have an impact on 737 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:50,960 your page speech, which we know impacts your SEO and all that 738 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:53,120 sort of stuff. But yeah, keep it simple. 739 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:55,840 Keep it simple, Yeah, you know, And if your apps that aren't 740 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,040 working for you, please don't pay for them. 741 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,440 I think the other thing as well is people try and use apps to 742 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,840 fix actually quite fundamental business problems, which is like 743 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,560 people 80% like our products, but it doesn't do something they 744 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,680 would have won. And we're ignoring them because 745 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,920 we don't have reviews to check. We're ignoring the custom 746 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,360 customer service is just fighting back rather than fixing 747 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,960 or feeding back to the, you know, product development team 748 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:19,480 or the owner or whoever to say like fix this issue. 749 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,440 And we, we certainly find that, yeah, once, once the company's 750 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,080 got a good product, simple branding and a simple offering 751 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,400 like buy this, buy this hoodie because, you know, it's the 752 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:31,920 softest, it's the best fit. It's made to measure. 753 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,680 You put your measurements in and it will make a hoodie that 754 00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,120 perfectly fits you. Or you can choose the material, 755 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,320 how thick it is. We'll make it when you order it 756 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,520 these. It's all fantastic USPS if 757 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,320 you've just which I did years ago, just picked up a load of 758 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,320 Bambi sunglasses of Alibaba and try and sell them. 759 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:46,320 It's hard. It's really hard. 760 00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,440 You made a good point earlier about the soft T-shirt, right? 761 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,400 It's far like you think that you're selling something that 762 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,400 that this is the value prop, but actually your customers are 763 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,360 saying it's it's a great fit, it's soft or whatever who who 764 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,120 wants a, you know, uncomfortable T-shirt. 765 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,520 So yeah, use your reviews to decide exactly what you how 766 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,840 you're going to sell it. But like, you know, just go old 767 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:06,400 school. This is where this is how much 768 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,640 it is. This is what it does. 769 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,080 This is the price by. It's easy, it's easy to buy. 770 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,840 And I think that and just just kind of final point I think is 771 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,159 exactly as you just described. If you read the customer service 772 00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,800 like reviews, I would almost put every USP, it doesn't must be 773 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,840 unique, but every like element of this product, the why buys 774 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:25,840 the why, it should be important to you put them all in. 775 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:29,760 Is this the initial customer acquisition side or or does this 776 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:31,639 fit into retention? Actually we want, we want the 777 00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:33,920 customer to buy 20 times from us over the next two or three years 778 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:38,040 and that that's our KPI. Such a high percentage of 779 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:40,520 customers I see on everybody Shopify stores and and we're 780 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,080 trying to fix it, but we're front end customer acquisition, 781 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,639 not e-mail and social and retention and product packaging 782 00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:47,639 and all the other things that get people to buy. 783 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,239 Again, I think it's so important to put these things in two 784 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,040 buckets and go, do you know what actually to acquire these 785 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,719 customers? It's probably, and it pains me 786 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,120 to say this, but I know it's true. 787 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,280 Focus on the selfish part of the customer. 788 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,200 Go, I want, I want the best hoodie. 789 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,520 I want the cheapest hoodie. I want the one that fits best. 790 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,960 I want the one that feels best. I want the one that looks best. 791 00:35:06,240 --> 00:35:09,160 Focus on that and go, OK, this is gonna be an awesome product. 792 00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,800 Then tell them afterwards what you've actually entered into is 793 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,880 you probably notice of no plastic in any of our packaging. 794 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,200 You probably notice that actually the materials made from 795 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:18,640 this. Well, here's a little guide on 796 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,680 where it comes from. And it's just a very simple 1, 797 00:35:20,720 --> 00:35:24,400 you know one, a 5A6 booklet that just says, you know this is 798 00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,280 Janet and she made this product and she's really proud of it. 799 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:30,040 And if you have any issues, Janet and her team will fix it 800 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,000 for free for the next 5 years. Got five year guarantee on it. 801 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,440 But actually we sold it on. How's your life going to be 802 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,280 better on the product? Just do enough to get them over 803 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,040 the line. Once they're over the line, then 804 00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:42,120 go into more detail to get them to become repeat customers. 805 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,520 I think some brands, they go, they go 2 to town on the line 806 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:46,760 going there's this and this and this and this and you know that. 807 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:48,600 I mean, you'll know this working in sales for years. 808 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:51,200 Once you've sold something, stop selling. 809 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,880 Like just sign the flipping paperwork. 810 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:55,120 Let's get out of the room. We've got the contract now. 811 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:56,720 We can educate them on the retention later. 812 00:35:56,720 --> 00:35:57,720 But yeah. That's so true. 813 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,240 Amazing. Well, anyway, I appreciate you 814 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:00,960 coming over to the office. It's great to do this face to 815 00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:02,400 face with proper cameras and everything. 816 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:03,400 And I'm not in a cupboard for one. 817 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:04,240 So I really appreciate your time. 818 00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:05,080 Thank you so much for joining us. 819 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:06,840 No, thanks for the invite and for everybody. 820 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:08,520 Listening at home. We're back again next week. 821 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,160 We post every Friday, check out our new community. 822 00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,080 I say new, it's nearly a year old now, but the community's 823 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,120 growing like mad. And also check out Judge Me's 824 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,000 webinars. I'm going to be on one and 825 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,040 probably around the same sort of time that this goes out as well. 826 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,280 So come and hear me and Neil have a NATA where Neil's going 827 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,160 to interview me next, which is going to be quite fun as well. 828 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,560 So we'll see what see what he asks, But thanks for tuning in 829 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:26,400 back again next Friday.