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Today on the Winning with 
Shopify podcast. 

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We're a Kingston, NY based 
benefit corporation. 

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We started in 2015 and we make 
scented candles that combine the

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artistry of master perfumers 
with a circular approach to 

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design and materials. 
Got a candle in our kitchen as 

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well that's like the shape of a 
turtle. 

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I've called him Terrance. 
I like naming things. 

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Love it. 
It's about building 

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relationships, and most of that 
is entirely free and requires a 

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bit of creativity. 
I've got in my notes you guys 

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January 2021 you left social. 
Buy our candles and that will 

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solve everything as well. 
That's it. 

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That's cool. 
Thanks for your time, Harry. 

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Hello and welcome to another 
episode with Winning with 

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Shopify Podcast. 
If you've never tuned it before,

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my name is Nick and it's such a 
pleasure to have you tuning into

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the show. 
You've been tuning in for a 

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while. 
Welcome back. 

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Great to have you on the journey
with us. 

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We've been running the show for 
nearly ten years and he's 

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checked when it is to be an 
anniversary. 

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I've been running since 2020 
when I take over from the 

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amazing Caroline who I know 
you're still tuning Caroline. 

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So hello, in the last six years,
nearly six years, I have not 

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given you a shout out once. 
So it's in my notes to give you 

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a shout out today if you haven't
already. 

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Guys, we are going to break a 
world record at some point and 

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not going to say what it is yet,
but if you want to get involved 

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in breaking that and see what 
we're going to do, it's going to

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involve lots of incredible 
content for you guys and lots of

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things. 
But I don't want to give too 

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much away right now. 
Head over to wwspodcast.com and 

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sign up to our newsletter. 
Nice and simple. 

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Put your address in there and 
you'll start getting a couple of

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emails a week from US1 about 
Tuesday tea break talks because 

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I'm British and I love tea and 
we like to talk about what's 

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happening in the Shopify world 
and also these Friday episodes. 

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I've got a amazing guest and 
this brand is coming back on the

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show, but we have a different 
guest this time. 

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So I'm delighted to invite 
Harry, who is the owner of Keep 

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Candles. 
Harry, welcome to the show. 

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How are you? 
Doing great. 

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Thanks so much for having me, 
Nick. 

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Pleasure to be here. 
Well, it's great to have you and

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I'm in a dark studio right now 
and it's 4:20 PM where I am. 

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I can see on the clock behind 
you it is 1125 S Either my 

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laptop's slightly slower, your 
clock's slightly fast. 

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I don't know which way around, 
but welcome. 

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It's good to have you on the 
show. 

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And let me ask all of our guests
before we get cracking, if no 

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one's ever heard of keep, 
firstly, how do you spell keep? 

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Because I think it's an 
important part of the brand. 

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People want to check out the 
site. 

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And secondly, tell us a bit 
about the business and what you 

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guys sell. 
Sure. 

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Yeah. 
So keep candles. 

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It's spelled KEAPA as an apple. 
It's named after a street in 

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Brooklyn. 
I can tell you more about that. 

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But we're a Kingston, NY based 
benefit corporation. 

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We started in 2015 and we make 
scented candles that combine the

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artistry of master perfumers 
with a circular approach to 

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design and materials. 
There's three things to I would 

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highlight about us that people 
note about our business. 

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We have, we're centered around a
subscription and really around 

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making candles for people that 
use them really regularly that 

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are very discerning in their 
usage. 

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We are big all natural candle 
innovators to talk more about 

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that. 
And then we make everything in 

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house, which in the world of 
luxury candles is extremely 

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rare. 
We're about a team of 10 people 

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making it happen. 
And yeah, I can talk about it 

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more, more of any of that if 
you're interested. 

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Nice. 
I I want to hear the story about

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the name the Street in, in New 
York. 

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Like tell us a bit more about 
how you guys branded the 

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business initially and came up 
with that name. 

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Yeah, so I I started the company
in 2015 with my really good 

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friend Steven that you had, who 
you had on the show. 

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And we were living on a street 
called Keep St. in Williamsburg 

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back then. 
And the the name Keep is very 

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weird in itself. 
It's named actually after 

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someone called McKean and I 
think apparently the person who 

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noted that street address, that 
street name for the first time 

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was dyslexic or something and 
they completely misspelled it 

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and it became keep. 
So that's amazing, kind of 

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funny, but we also like the 
sound of it beyond the fact that

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it, it, it was echoing kind of 
Steven Ice friendship, which was

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the the basis for for this 
business and and where, where we

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were starting. 
It also had this nice sound 

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about keeping things close. 
And we have this big focus on 

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circularity and reuse, and the 
idea of keep obviously resonated

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with that. 
I love that. 

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And I, I, I sometimes think 
people overthink branding and 

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it's like when you look at like,
I mean, I'm going to take the 

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biggest, one of the biggest 
brands in the world an apple and

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say like there's an apple with a
bite out of it. 

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It's temptation. 
I must say. 

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I I didn't get that for like the
first ten years of knowing 

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apple. 
I suddenly someone mentioned it 

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and it's the logo was like, 
yeah, someone's taking a bite 

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out. 
Obviously temptation. 

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Genesis, the Bible, it all kind 
of made sense suddenly. 

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And but I love how simple it is 
because I don't know if you guys

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had this. 
When we branded our agency spec,

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it was like we went through all 
these rounds of like, are we 

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like incisive or on the cutting 
edge of stuff and all these like

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random words. 
And my mate phoned me up one 

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night and he was like, it's 
like, Oh, good night. 

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I don't wear them on the show 
just because they reflect the 

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lights. 
But he felt like, oh, he's 

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specs. 
And I was like, that's it. 

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And just had this epiphany like 
I was going to call the business

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spec like, and there was no 
agency called spec at the time. 

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I was like, well, that's that 
sorted. 

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And there's a funny reason 
behind it. 

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But then the work, like you 
guys, it works circular. 

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So our work, our work 
specialised perspective and all 

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these other words of SPC in the 
middle. 

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So it worked. 
We've never actually played on 

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that, but it is there. 
And tell us, I mean, we're going

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to talk a lot about this, I 
think. 

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And this is one of the biggest 
things about your brand that I 

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love and I think makes your 
brand so sticky with customers 

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and so memorable. 
Let's talk about products and 

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you mentioned candle innovation.
That sounds exciting. 

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Like talk, talk us through more 
about this, you know, the kind 

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of circular, the reuse part of 
the society and how you are kind

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of turning that into a product. 
That's so, you know, if you 

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don't mind me saying so 
beautiful and it's such an 

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amazing product and and a 
product that people clearly love

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looking at the sentiment around 
your brand. 

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Yeah. 
Thank you for that question. 

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So at a very high level, you 
know, we, we work in an economy 

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that is mostly linear. 
You know, things have, are 

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designed to have one, a sort of 
a start and an end and then they

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end in presumably A landfill. 
And the circular economy is 

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about creating circles rather 
than lines with a start and an 

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end. 
So that we're, we're, you know, 

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living within the resources of 
our, of our planet and 

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ecosystems. 
So with, with our candles, 

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there's a lot of ways that we, 
we try and bring that, that 

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philosophy to our products. 
I think the things that's our 

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most noticeable are are around 
the reuse of the glass candle 

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holder. 
So first of all, we use we most 

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candle holders are actually made
in out of soda lime glass that 

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comes from China and 
increasingly Vietnam. 

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Now our glass is made in Germany
from 150 year old family owned 

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glass maker using Triton 
crystal. 

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It's very strong glass that can 
withhold hot candle 

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temperatures, but it is so 
strong that it doesn't need to 

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be very thick and it can be very
thin and very elegant glass. 

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It's a glass that's used by a 
lot of Michelin starred 

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restaurants. 
So we want to, we want the glass

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to be something you really want 
to keep and are willing to put 

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some effort to keep. 
And then we want to minimize the

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effort. 
So we, the, the adhesive we use 

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for our WIC, which is organic 
beeswax is very easy to pull out

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when you're done. 
And then the labels are 

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compostable, removable, so that 
basically it's a breeze to reuse

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the glass. 
And, and, and it sounds trivial 

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maybe to some people, but that's
something that Steve and I, as 

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big candle nerds buying a lot of
candles, we were really 

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frustrated by how difficult it 
was to reuse some candles just 

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because of the stuff it just 
sticking on there. 

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It was, it was made to be 
permanently on. 

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And so we really wanted to to 
address that. 

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And I've definitely found myself
late into the evening with, 

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like, hot water at the sink and 
a knife trying to, like, get the

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last bit of wax out. 
And we've got a candle in our 

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kitchen as well that's like the 
shape of a turtle. 

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I've called him Terence. 
I like naming things. 

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So Terence the towel and my 
wife, I bought him as a gift for

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my wife, and she refused to 
light it. 

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She's had him nearly 10 years 
now. 

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And he just sits there and he's 
got a candle inside. 

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And the candle is kind of like 
slightly small in the top, and 

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then it gets bigger inside. 
But she was also like, I really 

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like the dish, but if I like the
candle, we're then going to have

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bits of candle in there. 
We're never going to fully get 

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them out. 
And it would ruin it. 

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Say this candle's never been 
lit. 

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It's become an ornament. 
Yeah. 

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And so I joked that if I die one
day, like like that, you know, 

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like light sit in honour of me. 
She was like, no, I just, I feel

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like I'm burning you away with 
it. 

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Like this is kind of Terrance, 
poor Terrance. 

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I mean, there would be a funeral
for me and then Terrance 

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probably. 
And I love what you're saying 

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about the glass. 
And one thing I love about it, 

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and this is very, I'd say it's 
very now it's very sort of 

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20252026 in terms of the actual 
glass itself being reusable. 

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Yost have just launched 
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195
00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:33,320
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196
00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,520
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00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,840
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00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,799
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00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,720
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It's designed for marketers who 

200
00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,560
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00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,400
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Going from like all the kind of 
very like hypothetical kind of 

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top level side of the business, 
the branding, what's sticky, the

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messaging, the sentiment behind 
it, bringing that right down to 

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the opposite end, which is like 
kind of marketing tactics and, 

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and how you get people to reuse 
products. 

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You must find the reusability 
rates and the lifetime value of 

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customers is higher because 
they, if they don't reuse it, 

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they've just got this thing 
that's going to have to go to 

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landfill. 
And that was the reason they 

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00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,760
came to you in the 1st place was
to buy into avoiding that. 

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You must find the lifetime 
value, and repeat orders are 

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00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:34,840
pretty pretty strong in that 
sense. 

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00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:37,840
Yeah. 
Well, to be honest, when we 

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first launched the company, I 
was a bit cynical and skeptical.

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And I thought even though we put
all this effort into designing 

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for optimally for reuse and 
investing a lot of money and 

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00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,400
time into it, that probably most
people still wouldn't, wouldn't 

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do it. 
And I was been super pleasantly 

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00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,640
surprised. 
It's just, it's pretty much 

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everyone does it. 
It's, it's, it's kind of 

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00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,360
amazing. 
And then in terms of your 

227
00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,360
question of lifetime value, I 
think I, I don't think it's, 

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it's specifically just, you 
know, the, the, the glass reuse 

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and people being like, oh, 
there's, it's nice that I get 

230
00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,640
this really nice glass that's in
itself worth a lot of money. 

231
00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,000
You know, after the candle, I'm 
sure it's, it's part of the 

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00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,320
calculation, but I think it's, 
it's more like 1 facet that's of

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like a holistic approach that we
have that resonates with certain

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people. 
And yeah, our business is really

235
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oriented towards lifetime value 
more than I would say 

236
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,640
acquisition in a way we've 
invested definitely more on that

237
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that side of things. 
Which is, which is really cool. 

238
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And I think lots of brands we 
talked to. 

239
00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:43,960
And I think one of the biggest 
problems I find in sort of pop 

240
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up Shopify stores or brands kind
of hitting the ground running 

241
00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,480
and, and trying to get going is 
they focus too much on that 

242
00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,360
acquisition. 
They get too reliant on paid 

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advertising channels. 
And it's like, you do realize if

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your credit card got rejected, 
like and it took a day or two to

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00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,560
fix with Google, it's like as a 
day or two of your month just 

246
00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:02,360
gone, sales just gone. 
And actually this stickiness 

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means that you don't even need 
to do advertising and emailing. 

248
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Sometimes it's like people just 
want to come back and get 

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another one. 
And it's, as you say, it's part 

250
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:10,120
of the way you design the 
product. 

251
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,800
But I think sticking with this 
kind of dual approach then of 

252
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like the kind of top line brand 
approach and what you guys want 

253
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,560
to sort of change in the world 
with the kind of then tactics of

254
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what do you, what buttons do you
actually click And where are you

255
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:22,560
on the ground? 
I've got in my notes, you guys, 

256
00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:28,080
January 2021, you left social 
talk me through January 2021 

257
00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,120
because it's not something I 
it's some of the opposite of 

258
00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:32,040
brands going Snapchat's great, 
Tik Tok's great. 

259
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,240
Talk me through this. 
Oh yeah, probably the best 

260
00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:39,720
decision we've ever made. 
The, the background to it is 

261
00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,640
that Steven and my Co founder, 
Steven and I, we, we used to 

262
00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,640
work at Google and mainly 
actually YouTube within Google, 

263
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:50,760
both for five or six years. 
And so we saw how the sausage 

264
00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:52,800
was made. 
We saw the data on the back end 

265
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and all the ads data for, for 
YouTube. 

266
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And we were also getting a this 
was a long time ago that we were

267
00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,400
there and we're getting kind of 
increasing alarmed of with where

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things were going with the focus
on watch time. 

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00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,200
I mean, we didn't really foresee
just the magnitude of how much 

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00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:12,640
social media has, you know, 
caused a massive, in my opinion,

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00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:15,360
negative impact amid some 
benefits. 

272
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,520
But I think the the negatives 
personally outweigh those. 

273
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,720
We didn't totally foresee that. 
But yeah, the in in short, we 

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00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,280
spent a few years debating 
whether to stay on social media 

275
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and in 2021 made pulled the 
court and it was the reaction 

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00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:37,000
was pretty astounding. 
And since then it's been a lot 

277
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:38,720
of lessons. 
But definitely I think something

278
00:12:38,720 --> 00:12:40,880
I look back to is one of the the
best things we've ever done. 

279
00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,400
Yeah, absolutely. 
And I just love the fact it's 

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00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,720
like a disruptive thing. 
I mean, basically when this 

281
00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,840
episode's going out, Black 
Friday's round the corner, 

282
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,240
everybody and like, and lots of 
brands are refusing to do Black 

283
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,600
Friday, not not to kind of call 
you out and say you've left 

284
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:55,720
social, but you're doing Black 
Friday. 

285
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,400
Out of interest, like, what is 
your Black Friday Cyber Monday 

286
00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,200
strategy? 
Do you guys completely ignore 

287
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:01,880
it? 
Do you do something again? 

288
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,080
Are you trying to be disrupted 
in that space as well? 

289
00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,120
Good question. 
We actually for for many years 

290
00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:12,960
we're ignoring Black Friday and 
we've now I would say we don't 

291
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:17,520
ignore it, but we don't make it 
the the focus of our business. 

292
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,160
And the way I see lots of other 
businesses doing, we've sort of 

293
00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:23,760
found a way to make it work with
the structure of our business. 

294
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,560
We have seasonal sense that we 
launch every month that then we 

295
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:31,000
discontinue. 
But for a variety of boring 

296
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:34,240
operational reasons, it's sort 
of advantageous for us to sell a

297
00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,760
little bit more leftover 
inventory twice a year. 

298
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:42,120
And so we use not just Black 
Friday, but the this sort of 

299
00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:47,680
November sales rush to to sell 
some of that inventory, which is

300
00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,160
exciting for our customers 
because they get sense that they

301
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,440
don't are not normally 
available. 

302
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:56,680
And so we do it, I'd say, like 
we're definitely not very 

303
00:13:56,680 --> 00:14:00,000
aggressive compared to many 
other brands in our space when 

304
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,600
it comes to Black Friday, but we
don't totally ignore it either. 

305
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,160
I definitely have lots of mixed 
feelings about Black Friday and 

306
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,560
about, you know, that type of 
consumerism in general. 

307
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,040
But, and, and at the same time, 
it's tricky because, you know, 

308
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:18,840
so many of our customers, you 
know, want deals and want the 

309
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,920
best prices. 
And so it's, it's a tricky nut 

310
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:26,280
to, to crack and, and, and, and 
kind of, yeah, finding, finding 

311
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:27,920
that right balance is definitely
something we're, we're 

312
00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,960
constantly discussing. 
Yeah, absolutely I did. 

313
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:33,200
There's a friend of mine who 
was, he sort of said to me years

314
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,000
ago like, and it this might 
sound totally off topic and I'm 

315
00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,040
going to come back to Black 
Friday on set, but he said, 

316
00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:38,960
look, I'm struggling to keep 
like a life budget. 

317
00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:42,560
Like I get paid every month and 
by like the 10th, I'm like 

318
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,480
living off scraps, but I've got 
a good salary and I need to 

319
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,720
learn how to manage this. 
I'm like, good, you've reached, 

320
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,760
you've reached crunch point. 
I had it at work and it was much

321
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,720
more stressful with staff around
me and the tax man knocking on 

322
00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:55,120
the door. 
But we basically just made a 

323
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,640
budget really, really simple. 
But part of looking at that is I

324
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,200
looked at what he was spending 
his money on with him. 

325
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,440
And like we looked at his credit
card bill and I said, right, 

326
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:03,520
firstly, get rid of a credit 
card. 

327
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:06,440
You can't be trusted right now. 
Like we'll get the mortgage, you

328
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,400
know, we'll get the mortgage 
credit rating we need later. 

329
00:15:08,400 --> 00:15:11,080
But for now, like, let's just 
focus on just spend money you've

330
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:12,720
got not money you're going to 
get. 

331
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,040
So we started, but we looked at 
like what he was spending his 

332
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,280
money on and he was buying like 
so many T-shirts and, and 

333
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:19,920
trousers and stuff and all this 
clothing. 

334
00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:21,480
And I was like, there's only one
of you. 

335
00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:23,160
Like what are you, what are you 
using this stuff? 

336
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,560
When he goes well, once I've won
it 3 or 4 times, like, you know,

337
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,720
you start, they start to fade 
and the colours not as good is 

338
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,720
not as soft as it used to be. 
So we invested in two things. 1A

339
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,000
steamer so he could steam his 
clothes like they feel when they

340
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,200
come out the shop and that cost 
less than the single item he was

341
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:37,600
buying anyway. 
And the second thing, which 

342
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,560
comes right back to what you're 
saying about this consumerism is

343
00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,840
actually we worked out that over
a five year period, it was 

344
00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,240
cheaper for him to buy better 
quality clothes and better 

345
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,880
washing up liquid or washing 
liquid for the washing machine 

346
00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:51,120
and a steamer to steam them when
they come out. 

347
00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,080
Which spoiler alert, he never 
used the steamer, but he did 

348
00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,400
save lots of money. 
But just I think that that 

349
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,560
consumerism of like, oh, that, 
that one's one $1.00 and this 

350
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,080
one's $5. 
I'll go for the $1.00. 

351
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,440
But it's like you're going to 
need at least five, maybe even 

352
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,960
10 before the $5 one breaks or 
the $5 one has a lifetime 

353
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,040
warranty or like a 10 year 
warranty or a 20 year warranty. 

354
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:13,080
And so how much do you guys try 
and bring when it is, you know, 

355
00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:15,320
I don't want to downplay the 
product when it is just the 

356
00:16:15,320 --> 00:16:17,400
candle. 
It's not like a medical product,

357
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,640
it's not a car, it's not, you 
know, kind of mega, mega 

358
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,400
expensive. 
But how do you bring that kind 

359
00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:24,800
of that, that kind of message 
across in the marketing, the 

360
00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:26,320
like, it's not the cheapest 
candle you can buy. 

361
00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:28,280
It's not consumerism. 
We're not discounting it heavily

362
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:30,480
because it's got good value. 
How do you bring that across in 

363
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,120
the messaging you use the 
colours, the layouts on site, 

364
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:36,560
the and also the marketing thing
kind of tactics you guys? 

365
00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:40,480
Use so many. 
How do you run the? 

366
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:43,960
Whole business. 
I was gonna say that that's such

367
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:45,640
an interesting and important 
question. 

368
00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:49,640
I think the the aspect of like 
buying fewer better products 

369
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,680
definitely aligns with our 
philosophy. 

370
00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,120
Obviously we have a what's the 
term a product that you know 

371
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,120
consumes itself that's a renew 
or like a needs to be 

372
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,840
replenished. 
So it's different consumable. 

373
00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,319
Yeah, that's it. 
So it's a bit different than say

374
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,839
AT shirt, which is isn't 
shouldn't be a consumable should

375
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:11,160
last you a long, long time if 
it's made well. 

376
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,200
But there is the fact that, you 
know, we try and make our 

377
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:18,480
candles actually burn longer 
rather than quicker as on in 

378
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,520
sort of on the more mass market 
side, a lot of candles are 

379
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,599
actually designed to burn as 
fast as possible and to be so. 

380
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:25,079
You buy another one I guess. 
Yeah. 

381
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,480
So yeah, you buy another one as 
quickly as possible. 

382
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:32,080
So there there's there's that, 
you know, literal aspect to it. 

383
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,040
There's obviously the glass and 
the idea that you have something

384
00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:38,200
that you'll actually get to keep
for a very long time. 

385
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,480
But then, and, and I wouldn't 
say we've, we've figured it all 

386
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:48,120
out, but there's definitely an 
interesting challenge for us to 

387
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:51,040
show like what are you getting 
when you're paying this much 

388
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:53,840
more than say, you know, a 
candle you can buy at Walmart 

389
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,160
for $5, you know, 10 times less 
than our candles. 

390
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,520
What are you, what's, what's the
difference there? 

391
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,080
And then there, there's so many 
things I could say it's the fact

392
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:03,880
that the, the, the fragrances 
cost 100 times more. 

393
00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:09,400
Literally the fact that the, the
process of making them is more 

394
00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,560
as you would, you could compare 
and say like 1 is Taco Bell and 

395
00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,120
the other one is a Michelin 
starred restaurant. 

396
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,680
And maybe there's a place for 
both of those things to coexist.

397
00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:19,000
They don't. 
It doesn't have to be 1 or the 

398
00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,880
other, but depending on what 
you're looking for, one will, 

399
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,320
will, will suit you better than 
the other. 

400
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,200
And then I think there's an 
aspect a little bit like 

401
00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:32,880
analogous to when I think about 
why I will spend more money to 

402
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:40,280
buy a, a vegetable from my 
farmers market versus something 

403
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,680
from the supermarket that comes 
from, you know, some far away 

404
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,920
country that's been shipped, you
know, on a, on a big container 

405
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:50,040
ship. 
And it's that I get a lot for my

406
00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:51,760
money. 
I don't just get the thing that 

407
00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:56,880
my personal consumption of it. 
I also know that I am supporting

408
00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,240
my local, my local farms, my 
local ecology, my local 

409
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,120
community. 
And I think we're one of many 

410
00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:08,040
businesses that's also trying to
bring that ethos and that 

411
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,040
customers are are looking for 
supporting businesses like that,

412
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:13,480
that aren't, you know, the same 
kind of slop that you find when 

413
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,640
you just like type a product in 
Google search and you get all, 

414
00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,320
you know, Wayfair and Walmart 
and all these these sort of big 

415
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:23,840
global supply chain 
centralizers. 

416
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:26,880
So I think that's just the start
to your question. 

417
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:28,240
There's so much more to say 
there, but. 

418
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,160
Yeah, Yeah, of course, of 
course. 

419
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,520
Let's talk about the flip side 
then of like, well, not flip 

420
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:33,800
side, but the second part of the
process. 

421
00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,120
So one is then attracting people
in and getting all those things 

422
00:19:36,120 --> 00:19:39,720
you mentioned of like how do we 
not mention Walmart, but clearly

423
00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:41,800
show the value in what we do and
the price. 

424
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,640
Even seeing the process is part 
of the journey and the emotional

425
00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:47,040
connection to product. 
But let's go the other side of 

426
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,840
the fence. 
So somebody's now bought from 

427
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,240
you and now it's about engaging 
them. 

428
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:52,480
And you mentioned earlier, like 
you got you guys obviously have 

429
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,680
this amazing customer base that 
runs the business and keeps the 

430
00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,400
business kind of ticking over on
that subscription that reorder, 

431
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,760
which I love surprises. 
I love you mentioned it. 

432
00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,960
I love your humility to say 
earlier, you know, I was wrong. 

433
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,120
I thought no one's it is going 
to throw this thing away and 

434
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,040
just think, well, that's done, 
Chuck the bass away. 

435
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:08,880
But people buying things 
amazing. 

436
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:10,960
But how do you then communicate 
with those guys? 

437
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,320
Like what does the e-mail 
strategy look like? 

438
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:15,000
How much more educational are 
you post purchase as opposed to 

439
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,760
pre purchase? 
Yeah. 

440
00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,600
So, so we're not on social 
media. 

441
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,000
So we in a way we don't have to 
deal with any of that. 

442
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,720
So we that allows us currently 
the main, the main channel, it's

443
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,800
not the only one, but the main 
channel is definitely our e-mail

444
00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,760
newsletter. 
That's where we invest most of 

445
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,680
our energy. 
It's where most of the kind of 

446
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,320
life in our communication to our
community is happening. 

447
00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,880
We have definitely other plans 
in the future for new things 

448
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,760
that are exciting and new 
channels, but that's where we 

449
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,280
put a lot of our energy. 
We do, I mean, we do have e-mail

450
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,600
flows that we use, you know, 
with Clivio, I don't think we're

451
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,240
particularly unique and, and how
we use those to be honest. 

452
00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,840
Our newsletter though is, is I 
think pretty interesting and, 

453
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,520
and, and we've gotten the 
feedback that it's unusual and 

454
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:00,880
different from other brand 
newsletters. 

455
00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,840
And I think there's a lot of 
like specifics about it that I 

456
00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:09,400
are a bit unusual. 
And we try and make it feel not 

457
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,680
like a brand newsletter, but 
feel more like, you know, an 

458
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:17,600
e-mail from me typically and, 
and it is an e-mail from me. 

459
00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:24,840
So the other aspect is feedback.
We're very big on soliciting 

460
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,240
feedback proactively. 
We have a lot of ways we do 

461
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:30,880
that. 
And the main one, the biggest 

462
00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,360
one is every summer we have what
we call our annual keeper 

463
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:37,200
survey. 
It's a, an absurdly long survey 

464
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,960
that I am surprised even one 
person spends the time filling. 

465
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,520
But we get hundreds of people 
filling it every year and it's 

466
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:49,680
so eye opening and it really 
informs changes to our 

467
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:51,560
newsletter, but changes to our 
entire business. 

468
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,680
And and you know, we are like, 
we have strong opinions. 

469
00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,160
So we're not just completely 
like swaying to whatever last 

470
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,600
feedback we get, but we often 
find we're in pretty good sync 

471
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:02,200
with, you know, our core 
customer. 

472
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,360
And this helps us just 
understand where they're at and 

473
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,680
better change our products, 
change our storytelling, update 

474
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:12,560
our our storytelling to like 
match, match where our audience 

475
00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,800
is AT. 
I just signed up to your 

476
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,680
newsletter as well while you 
were saying that, because when 

477
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:18,760
you said like a news that's 
amazing, I was like, I got to 

478
00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,680
see this. 
I love the fact it says keep up 

479
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,800
when you click go, It's not like
Join Now, whatever. 

480
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,680
It's like keep up. 
And I love, I love with brands. 

481
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:27,880
I love how fun you can be with 
you. 

482
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:30,560
And you say about the keep 
survey as well, like, and I love

483
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:31,920
these. 
I love using all these little 

484
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,520
things in branding to like just 
make them a little bit more fun 

485
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:35,960
a little bit. 
Oh, that's a bit different. 

486
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,440
That's a nice touch. 
And but you can't have that 

487
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,040
without the big North Star 
elements the business like 

488
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,840
you've spoken about before. 
So I think the feedback is 

489
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,280
amazing. 
We, we get a lot of clients 

490
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,000
where we say, can we do 
feedback? 

491
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,520
Because if we can find out this,
this and this from clients, we 

492
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,880
know what we're putting in ad 
copy, what we put on a website 

493
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,760
copy, and we know how to talk to
them now. 

494
00:22:55,360 --> 00:22:57,280
And the pushbacks we get are 
things like they're not going to

495
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:58,600
fill it out. 
It's not going to be useful 

496
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:00,080
information. 
We're just going to get loads of

497
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,600
complaints. 
People are going to how rubbish 

498
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,840
the product is. 
And we kind of sit there like, 

499
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,800
yes, we've got less skin in the 
game because we're the agency, 

500
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,840
but I get, but it's like, let's 
find out those things. 

501
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:10,920
Let's find out how bad we are. 
Let's find out how much we're 

502
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,240
annoying people. 
And now we know we're already 

503
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,880
doing that and we know why we've
got no repeat orders and we can 

504
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,560
start fixing these problems. 
This episode of Winning Shop 

505
00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:20,320
Fight is brought to you by Tax 
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506
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It's the busiest time of year 
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507
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521
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522
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:05,480
That's taxcloud.com/winning. 
With those surveys, how much how

523
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,680
much would you say you then kind
of follow back and sorry to be 

524
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:10,000
on the spot on this. 
I don't know if you did this at 

525
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,800
all, but how much you kind of 
feedback to people and say, hey,

526
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,880
loads, you filled out this 
survey we sent out three or four

527
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,760
weeks ago. 
We were really struck by this. 

528
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,040
So we're going to launch a new 
product or change the way we do 

529
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,280
this or we we're reviewing our 
couriers because you guys 

530
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,480
highlighted that the delivery 
sometimes isn't great or you 

531
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:26,520
know, the driver just leave it 
on the doorstep in the in the 

532
00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,120
snow. 
And that's not a good way for it

533
00:24:28,120 --> 00:24:29,920
to be left. 
Like how much do you feedback 

534
00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:32,720
what you've learned? 
So it's funny because this year 

535
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,400
I'm actually really behind my 
usual timeline for, for doing 

536
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,160
the sort of OK, the, the, the 
return. 

537
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:41,000
So I've started. 
I'm glad I'm here to remind you.

538
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:45,320
That's good. 
But, but because there's so much

539
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,200
in this survey, it actually 
takes me a dozen e-mail 

540
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,480
newsletters to actually work 
through all the juicy stuff that

541
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,960
our subscribers are interested 
in, in hearing back from us. 

542
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,040
So it gives me a ton of 
storytelling stuff that people 

543
00:24:58,200 --> 00:24:59,880
love. 
They love, they love to read 

544
00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,440
more about both what's going on 
with our community, what other 

545
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:07,480
people kind of like them are 
experiencing and commenting on, 

546
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,200
and then what other people are 
thinking about the candles. 

547
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:15,080
I think people feel a really 
strong attachment to our company

548
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:17,400
and that's probably through 
their enjoyment of the candles. 

549
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,880
But then I think when they hear 
from other people who share that

550
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,960
same that same emotion, it makes
them feel a sense of connection.

551
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,880
That's that's that's really 
sweet and important. 

552
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:31,680
So we do try and like give send 
back kind of what we heard. 

553
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:35,400
I think it's fun and it's also 
people really appreciate that 

554
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,400
and also feel like their 
feedback's been heard, which is 

555
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:43,320
important. 
And we do try also to follow up 

556
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,440
individually with a number of 
people for specific kinds of 

557
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:53,320
responses where either where 
they didn't realize that we 

558
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,240
actually already doing the thing
that they're requesting, but 

559
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,800
they just didn't know about it 
so. 

560
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,720
Yeah. 
Yeah, which is, which is is 

561
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,080
telling us also that there's 
maybe a communication 

562
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,200
improvement opportunity there 
or, or, or something of that 

563
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,160
effect. 
But also it's, it's worth just 

564
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,360
telling that person, you know, 
that I think we can provide kind

565
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:12,560
of delight them and surprise 
them because I don't think most 

566
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:16,720
people are accustomed to the 
brand responding to like their 

567
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:21,160
individual survey response. 
So yeah, we do definitely put a 

568
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,600
lot of effort into that. 
And if you're a keep subscriber 

569
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,920
listening to this and you're 
like, where is it this year? 

570
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,200
It's coming, okay. 
Got a lot on, got a lot. 

571
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,880
And I think one of the amazing 
things I think about the 

572
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,080
feedback that you've just 
mentioned, and this is one of 

573
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:39,880
the, if you're listening to this
and you're early in your 

574
00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:41,480
journey, this is something 
you're going to hit later. 

575
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,080
If you're not early in your 
journey, you're probably 

576
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,640
hitting, This is content is so 
expensive. 

577
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,000
Whether it's coming up with the 
stories and the time that takes,

578
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,400
whether it's shooting content, 
creating content. 

579
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,080
We have some clients that are 
like, oh, we're having to pay 

580
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:56,240
like $2,000,000 to this 
celebrity to have them like just

581
00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:57,480
wear it. 
They're not even going to 

582
00:26:57,480 --> 00:26:58,880
mention it. 
We just get a picture of them 

583
00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:01,360
wearing it. 
We can use only on e-mail and 

584
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:04,080
social channels when we tag 
them, can't put on the website. 

585
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,360
There's always like stupid 
restrictions, the clients do 

586
00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:10,360
some of that and then it's like,
OK, well if you send like you 

587
00:27:10,360 --> 00:27:13,360
say, the simple things are 
always best and they often free.

588
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,640
Let's send out a massive survey 
and we'll encourage people to 

589
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,600
want to fill it out by even if 
only 10 people do it the first 

590
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,280
time. 
Let's feedback what we learnt 

591
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,480
from those 10 people. 
And then more people go like, 

592
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,120
oh, I got that survey but I 
didn't fill it out. 

593
00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,880
And you go on. 
It's like next surveys come in, 

594
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,560
in three months. 
You go like we'll do another one

595
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,040
soon. 
Let's use the first one just to 

596
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,040
drip through the concept and say
we're launching a new thing and 

597
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,320
anyone who replied to the 
previous surveys getting it for 

598
00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:39,000
free or half price and oh, I 
should have filled out the 

599
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,600
survey. 
And you, like you slowly build 

600
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,520
this relationship with people 
going, look, if you give to us, 

601
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,280
we'll give back. 
It doesn't have to be discounts.

602
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,000
It can be changes to things, but
I think it's amazing just that 

603
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,800
that content creation that you 
touched on again, so many 

604
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,080
clients scratching their heads 
going and it's not a problem for

605
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,560
you, but we're going to post on 
social tomorrow and like it was 

606
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,280
International Turtle Day, which 
is a fantastic thing. 

607
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,400
There's nothing to do with our 
business, but we're stuck. 

608
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,200
We're stuck for ideas. 
The turtles. 

609
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,680
It is. 
But yeah, it must, it must help 

610
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:05,840
with some of those stories. 
Or even in six months you're 

611
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:07,360
like people have mentioned 
gifting. 

612
00:28:07,360 --> 00:28:09,640
Well, like there's Mother's Day,
Father's Day, Valentine's, 

613
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:11,760
there's some gifting holidays 
coming up at the moment. 

614
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,360
We can build those into our 
calendar. 

615
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,960
Man, I'm, I'm 100% I am hearing 
you say talking about it's about

616
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:21,960
building relationships. 
It's, it's, that's exactly what 

617
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,800
it is. 
And most of that is entirely 

618
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,880
free and requires a bit of 
creativity, but it's, it's 

619
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:30,000
pretty much free. 
And it's, it's kind of shocking 

620
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:34,640
to me the way that how 
uncreative marketers have gotten

621
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,200
in the last two decades, I think
because of social media And that

622
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,840
idea of like, you know, paying 
$2,000,000 to an influencer to 

623
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,200
like, not show your product is 
like so classic, I feel. 

624
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,440
And and. 
Terms and conditions apply and 

625
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,960
we didn't read them properly. 
Yeah, it's like, how has it come

626
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,040
to that? 
For $2,000,000, what I could do 

627
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,360
with that money, Oh my God, we, 
we have not spent close to 

628
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:57,960
$2,000,000 in our ten years of 
history on marketing. 

629
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:02,640
And there's, there's just so 
much you can, if you think of it

630
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:05,840
as building long term 
relationships, you approach it 

631
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:07,360
very differently. 
And especially when you're just 

632
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:12,240
starting out, there's so much 
you can do with just, you know, 

633
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:14,920
thinking about that really 
individual level, but building 

634
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,440
partnerships with other 
businesses, building, getting 

635
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,520
that those feedback loops and 
start starting not expecting 

636
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:25,160
that you're going to become, you
know, Google tomorrow magically.

637
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,760
But that by getting like real 
people who are real, your core 

638
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:32,480
customer and become real fans, 
you can start to really build 

639
00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:34,360
something that's strong, that 
builds on itself. 

640
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:36,960
Or you don't have to like, like 
you were saying earlier, like 

641
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,560
chase your next customer because
all your other customers are 

642
00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,520
churning anyway because your 
product sucks. 

643
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,080
But that feedback, that, that 
feedback. 

644
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,120
I think we, you know, I hear a 
lot also about that sense of 

645
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,000
worrying that you're going to 
get negative feedback. 

646
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,560
And so that's just not going to 
be helpful. 

647
00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:57,400
I think that kind of 
perfectionism is really poison 

648
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,600
for for entrepreneurs. 
You that feedback is so 

649
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:04,080
valuable. 
And if you got like I like to 

650
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,840
say, if you got snot sticking 
out of your nose, it's better 

651
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,240
that someone tells you early so 
that you don't like go to, you 

652
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,400
know, your brother's wedding 
with it sticking out of your 

653
00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:13,680
nose. 
You know, you wanna, you wanna, 

654
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,560
you wanna find out about it so 
you can address it soon and, you

655
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,240
know, be better. 
And yeah, sorry, I got, I got, I

656
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:20,800
get. 
Passionate. 

657
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,320
No, no, I completely agree. 
And I mean, I mean just just to 

658
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,360
just to kind of back that up as 
well with a couple of like 

659
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,960
really kind of on the ground 
tactical things like we, we've 

660
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,720
had Judge Me, Trustpilot and 
Yopo on the show before. 

661
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:33,040
All three of them are really 
close partners of ours as much 

662
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:35,000
as Saguno, who's currently one 
of our sponsors. 

663
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:38,400
Like they do product reviews. 
All of them unanimously say your

664
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,000
negative reviews are the best 
opportunities for growth. 

665
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:43,560
Yet companies literally. 
I mean, it's a kind of like 

666
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,440
corporate organization CEO on 
the phone to the marketing exec 

667
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:48,440
going, why is everyone 
complaining about us? 

668
00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:50,480
Like it's because we've got a 
bad business and we need to fix 

669
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,840
it. 
But now we know exactly what to 

670
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,480
fix. 
And if we fix it, the rewards 

671
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,920
are quite clear, obvious and 
public. 

672
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,360
And we can build a whole PR 
campaign about it without paying

673
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,520
journalists because journalists 
want to hear this like, you 

674
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,000
know, the the US is most 
complained about shoe company is

675
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,640
now statistically the best. 
That's an imagine that's a PR 

676
00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:13,480
story hitting the New York Times
and everything. 

677
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,320
That's an incredible piece of 
PR. 

678
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:17,800
And you won't have to pay to get
that story out because it's 

679
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,960
compelling enough. 
I think one of the, one of the 

680
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,120
biggest things that I hear from 
is one of my legends or kind of 

681
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,000
on my podcast list is Rory 
Sutherland. 

682
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,440
And he's one of the most amazing
British marketing gurus I've 

683
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,360
ever come across. 
And Rory says all the time, like

684
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,000
so many businesses are led by 
the finance directors now and 

685
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,120
you guys are great. 
We need you. 

686
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:38,320
We need the numbers in order 
businesses fall apart if they're

687
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,480
not, but the finance directors 
need to just let the marketing 

688
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,480
teams and the creatives just 
have a play because that's where

689
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,720
all the good stuff comes from. 
If you're chasing like, is it 

690
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,760
this word or this word in an AB 
test, well, that's nothing 

691
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,800
compared to if you go, let's 
reinvent our business based on 

692
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,200
what our customers are telling 
us and we'll at least find out 

693
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,440
the customers were wrong. 
They actually liked it before. 

694
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,120
Like, you know, you've got, 
that's a much bigger macro thing

695
00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,520
to kind of kind of focus on. 
But I for the last few minutes, 

696
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:05,680
I want a complete gear change 
because you put, we spoke about 

697
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,560
this before we hit record. 
You put 2 words on the sort of 

698
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,360
like, you know, what are some of
the topics we can talk about 

699
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,000
with you? 
And you mentioned mental health 

700
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:13,960
and I went down a completely 
different roads and then 

701
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,240
suggested maybe it was another 
road. 

702
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,200
And you said no, no, it was a 
completely different Rd. 

703
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,360
altogether. 
Talk me through mental health 

704
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,240
kind of in your day-to-day 
working environment, how many 

705
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,320
different forms it takes, where 
it comes into play because we we

706
00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,120
get asked about this a lot. 
And we spend so much time 

707
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:31,040
talking about like my episode a 
few days ago is about AI stuff 

708
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,080
you used to do to your website 
to be, you know, appearing in 

709
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:34,680
ChatGPT. 
And we need all of that. 

710
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,200
But we don't talk enough about 
how stressed and tired we all 

711
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:38,880
are. 
And other people are stressed 

712
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,600
and tired and struggling the 
mental health around us. 

713
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,960
Tell me more about mental health
in your kind of day-to-day in 

714
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,200
your worlds. 
And yeah, where you wanted to go

715
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:47,680
with that because really 
interesting. 

716
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,520
Yeah, thanks, Nick. 
I yeah, we were discussing 

717
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,320
before that that we, we we sort 
of interpreted those those words

718
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:57,120
with with in different in 
different ways. 

719
00:32:57,120 --> 00:33:02,600
And, and I think all the ways 
that we both came, both both 

720
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:08,440
came to were were were valid. 
We talked about the, the self as

721
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:13,680
a founder, how it's extremely 
challenging all the, the, the 

722
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:15,680
weight of these 
responsibilities, the stress, 

723
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:20,880
the money stress, the, the the 
people related issues to 

724
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,320
navigate. 
There's a lot to handle there. 

725
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:29,200
The fact that as the leader of a
team, at least speaking in our 

726
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,280
context in the USI think mental 
health is one of our and I'd say

727
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,640
like health actually, in 
general, healthcare and, and and

728
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:40,160
including mental health care is 
a real, a real challenge of our 

729
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:44,040
times. 
And, and can, you know, it can 

730
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,640
cause like major problems that 
really take you off course. 

731
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:53,360
And then we also spoke with our 
customers how we've heard 

732
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,480
feedback. 
We actually have a lot of 

733
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,120
therapists that use candles in 
their practice, interestingly, 

734
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,880
but we also have a lot of folks 
for whom it's an important part 

735
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:05,560
of their own Wellness routines, 
their daily rituals to kind of 

736
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:10,920
be grounded be feel a sense of, 
of time and place. 

737
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,320
I'll give you like one really 
practical example that we hear a

738
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:17,040
lot of is people who work from 
home. 

739
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,520
And so it's hard for them to 
have boundaries between work and

740
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,239
their personal life, you know, 
being on the screen with their 

741
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,000
colleagues and then being with 
their spouse or children. 

742
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,120
And the candle is kind of like 
the switch. 

743
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,159
It kind of marks the start of 
the end of one phase and the 

744
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:35,440
start of another. 
And it sort of works as almost 

745
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,239
like a little mirror reminder, 
like, hey, this is, you said 

746
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,600
you're going to be with your 
kids now. 

747
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,560
And so, and it's not loud. 
It's very like subtle. 

748
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:46,320
But a lot of people find find 
that that interesting. 

749
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,480
But yeah, I can go into any more
any of those 3 aspects in more 

750
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,639
detail if you want. 
I think I mean 11, I definitely 

751
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:55,520
want to, but I think just just 
to make the point that actually 

752
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:58,960
being aware of all of this, like
I, I had a near breakdown once 

753
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:00,640
in business, like the business 
was falling apart. 

754
00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,440
We didn't have enough money. 
And so I did what everybody does

755
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,320
and I got on a plane out the 
country and went on holiday for 

756
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,480
a week and just was like 
desperately listened to 

757
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:10,320
audiobooks. 
I I feel like I'm more aware of 

758
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,200
it having gone that low and gone
right. 

759
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,520
I need to get I'm very like 
objective, as you can probably 

760
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,400
say, I need to get out of this. 
You know, what is the like 123? 

761
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,560
And sometimes there isn't. 
It's like, I just need to be 

762
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,480
aware of things today. 
So I think actually you just 

763
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,640
listing all those different ways
it can can affect you and I and 

764
00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,760
everybody listening, whether 
you're, you know, junior 

765
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,680
marketing exec and you've just 
joined a business, you listen to

766
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,680
this, you're like Shopify, what 
the heck's that? 

767
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,520
What do I do? 
Like I'm I'm a depth or whether 

768
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,760
you've been running a business 
for twenty 30-40 years and 

769
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,160
you're like, OK, like this is 
really important. 

770
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,840
The one I really want to to go 
into, just given who, knowing 

771
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,200
that there's loads of small 
founders of Shopify stores 

772
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,600
there, lots of people listening 
to this will either be in a big 

773
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,000
corporate environment that's 
very stressful or they'll be 

774
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,640
like working a full time job and
running Shopify on the side out 

775
00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:53,400
of their garage bedroom, that 
kind of thing. 

776
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,800
So a lot of people are like in 
this stressful situation 

777
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,680
environment and you're welcome 
to say it's how they can use 

778
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,080
your products or how you kind of
reset or, you know, or just 

779
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:05,520
generally like some of the 
things that you think people in 

780
00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,240
our positions battle every day. 
But like, how do you deal with 

781
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:09,240
that? 
Where it's like you just 

782
00:36:09,240 --> 00:36:10,840
everything's coming at all 
sides. 

783
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:12,840
There's all these fires, there's
walls knocking down. 

784
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,480
The office is just flooded. 
And you just got an e-mail 

785
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:17,680
saying a boat's falling apart 
and a shipping container fell 

786
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:19,600
off. 
I love your stock and phoned the

787
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:21,560
insurance company and then the 
government asked for some tax. 

788
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,640
And it's like all this stuff's 
kind of hitting you in different

789
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:24,920
ways. 
Like what are some of the ways 

790
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,600
that you as the owner finds, you
know, that that time to go, 

791
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:28,960
right? 
This is all going on. 

792
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,040
Need to do something to kind of 
get my head in the right game 

793
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:35,000
and this to sort of stay afloat.
Yeah, that's the, that's the 

794
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:44,400
$1,000,000 question right there.
Yeah, I think, well, first of 

795
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:48,560
all, you, you've got to buy our 
candles and that will solve 

796
00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:49,920
everything as well. 
That's it. 

797
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:54,960
That's. 
Actually, time, Harry, we will 

798
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:56,840
put a link in the description. 
Everyone by the way. 

799
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,840
So yeah, I'll ask you for the 
URL in a minute, but we will put

800
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:00,640
a link in the description if you
want to go and check out your 

801
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:02,880
products. 
And yeah, and keep in touch. 

802
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,800
It's about Keap. 
Yeah, more more seriously, I 

803
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,640
think this the answer is going 
to be different for everyone. 

804
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,520
You know, we'll have different 
personalities, different needs 

805
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,840
and and so there's probably not 
A1 size fits all. 

806
00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:23,480
I can talk about a little bit 
what, what I do in a little bit,

807
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:27,320
what I see other, what I see 
around me in terms of where 

808
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,840
advice that I've seen work with 
with folks around me in similar 

809
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,480
contexts. 
But I think for me, a lot of 

810
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:40,680
times where I end up in a little
bit of in that survival mode, 

811
00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,160
like where I'm, I'm having 
trouble connecting with sort of 

812
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,360
the abundance and the seeing, 
you know, how great I have it 

813
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,080
actually in so many levels. 
And I'm seeing sort of the glass

814
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,720
half empty part and seeing all 
the parts that are stressful. 

815
00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:55,920
The cash situation been really 
rough, a people A-Team situation

816
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,280
that's difficult. 
And I'm kind of getting into a 

817
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:01,920
pattern of survival rather than 
of of thriving. 

818
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,040
And there's a few things. 
One is just to doing the things 

819
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,480
that that are, you know, make 
you feel good. 

820
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:12,600
You know, for me playing soccer,
football is, is really like one 

821
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,360
of those things. 
I love that. 

822
00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:17,200
What a British thing to do, like
go and kick a ball with some 

823
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:18,760
mates in a field. 
Yeah, it's brilliant. 

824
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:22,360
I I play as well, yeah. 
Yeah, that that's one of the big

825
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:23,760
ones. 
There's a few other other things

826
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,280
I do, you know, and, and then 
finding inspiration and usually 

827
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,640
that's through culture, through 
social social time with friends,

828
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,160
through other things. 
And then, and then sometimes 

829
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,440
like making the point of 
thinking like, what am I needing

830
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,480
in this moment? 
What am I needing that I'm not 

831
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,360
getting in this moment? 
Because often when I ask myself 

832
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,960
that question, I find that 
actually right now, because I've

833
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,640
been in their survival mode, 
I've been kind of denying myself

834
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,280
some basic things that I need. 
And sometimes they're really 

835
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,320
small and they can make such a 
huge difference, like. 

836
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,600
Like, I'm dehydrated and my 
mood's bad. 

837
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,680
It's like, well, one does 
literally equal the other. 

838
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:02,360
It's so just have some water. 
Like, it's so simple. 

839
00:39:02,480 --> 00:39:03,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

840
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:06,680
And it can be like I realized 
recently that I've been forcing 

841
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:11,640
myself to be an early morning 
person ever since my, my son was

842
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,480
born. 
And I'm, I'm not, I'm not up to 

843
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:14,920
that. 
Yeah. 

844
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,120
I think after like 5 years, 4/4 
and 1/2 years, I'm like, I'm not

845
00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,880
a morning person. 
I think I have way more than 

846
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:23,680
enough data to say like I'm not 
gonna. 

847
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,520
Tell you what's really ironic 
about that statement. 

848
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:27,840
It is one minute past 12 on your
clock behind you. 

849
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,360
It's afternoon now, so you can 
wake up. 

850
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:32,800
That's sorry. 
It was just perfect. 

851
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,120
Yeah, absolutely perfect. 
But yeah, so you're not a 

852
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,680
morning person. 
Yeah. 

853
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,640
And so I, I, this is not 
something I've like taken in 

854
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,360
action yet because literally I 
was thinking about it this 

855
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,120
weekend, but, but I am thinking 
about changing my schedule to, 

856
00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,880
to allow myself to be, to be 
more in my natural rhythm where 

857
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:52,960
I'm good at. 
If I can do a work session late 

858
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,120
at night, I get 5 times more 
done than, you know, if I wake 

859
00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,680
up or do an early, early day. 
And and then, you know, I have 

860
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:04,200
just more time for myself to to 
then exercise, relax, be with my

861
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,080
family, do do whatever other 
things I need. 

862
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,800
Thank you so much. 
Like really thank you for 

863
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:09,720
sharing that. 
That's amazing. 

864
00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:13,200
And yeah, I've definitely done 
those kind of like those peaks 

865
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:15,040
and troughs of where you're like
where you're most productive, 

866
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,720
where you're least productive. 
And I, I'm probably, mine's 

867
00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:19,920
probably inverted from yours, 
but plus the evening, it's like,

868
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,480
yeah, I'd really, really 
productive until I have lunch. 

869
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:25,280
Once I've had lunch, I have to 
because I'm an extrovert. 

870
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,480
I have to be in conversations 
and in meetings in the 

871
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:31,040
afternoons to keep me engaged, 
keep me awake. 

872
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,400
Then I have this kind of crash. 
And again, it's around meal 

873
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,440
time. 
It's, I have a crash around 

874
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,200
dinner and stuff and then like 
I'm absolutely knackered and my 

875
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,440
wife and I like, let's go to 
bed, you know, baby's asleep, 

876
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:41,960
let's get some time and, you 
know, get some rest or whatever.

877
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,120
And I get into bed and I'm like 
this and my, I'm a real night 

878
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:46,480
owl. 
My brains like so awake going, I

879
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:47,960
could try this, I could conquer 
that. 

880
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,520
I could build this like just 
really kind of like, you know, 

881
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:52,800
life change that and I'm gonna 
wake up in the morning again. 

882
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:54,960
It's like, takes me 5 minutes, 
but I'm like, let's go. 

883
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,240
Like it's just this kind of 
peaks and trust, I think, and 

884
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,520
understanding those. 
But certainly as the owner, as 

885
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:02,280
the founder, as the boss, you, 
you, you're in control of those 

886
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:03,320
things. 
And I think sometimes we lock 

887
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,680
ourselves into what the rat race
says we need to. 

888
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,760
Had an epiphany recently of 
going, do you know what if I get

889
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:10,720
to work early and leave early 
what I've been doing the last 

890
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:13,200
3-4 months so I can get home 
before my little one goes to bed

891
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,800
or I won't see her apart from in
the morning, I won't see her all

892
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,640
day. 
So it's like actually, I get to 

893
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,200
work at like 7:00 AM and I'm 
leaving at kind of four and take

894
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,200
a full lunch break in the 
middle. 

895
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,600
And it's like those are my non 
negotiables and everything else 

896
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,640
has to fit around them. 
And now I've learned like to 

897
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:28,400
stop doing the things I 
shouldn't be doing and delegate.

898
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:29,840
It's like things are getting 
much easier. 

899
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,000
But yeah, there'll be another 
kind of turbulent thing that 

900
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:34,600
will hit next, which, yeah, our 
government's about to announce 

901
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:38,360
tax updates very shortly. 
So sure, that'll keep me awake 

902
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:41,720
for a few days. 
But let Harry, thank you so 

903
00:41:41,720 --> 00:41:42,880
much. 
Thank you for your humility. 

904
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:44,880
Thanks for admitting like these 
are some things I needed to work

905
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,240
on throughout the whole business
from from the get go this 

906
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:49,240
episode right the way through 
to, you know, well done on some 

907
00:41:49,240 --> 00:41:51,360
of the successes and the journey
you guys have been on where 

908
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,440
you're heading at the moment. 
Say thank you so much. 

909
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,000
If people want to check out the 
business, I mentioned the URL. 

910
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,800
If they're listening to this and
can't see the description, like 

911
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,640
how can they check out the 
website And that's it. 

912
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,320
Enjoy the newsletter because 
they can't follow you on social,

913
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,880
which I love. 
I love that. 

914
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:05,560
Yeah, exactly. 
Yeah. 

915
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:08,000
So if if you're interested in in
learning more about us, we're at

916
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:12,160
keepcandles.com. 
That's KEAP candles.com. 

917
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:14,840
And yeah, on the website you'll 
be at, you'll see links to join 

918
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:18,120
our newsletter. 
Highly recommend it and send us 

919
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,400
an e-mail if if if you want to 
get in touch. 

920
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:22,720
Amazing. 
Thank you so much and for 

921
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:24,840
everyone listening at home, 
Yeah, TuneIn again be back on 

922
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,800
Tuesday with next Tuesday tea 
break talks. 

923
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,080
There'll be a special holiday 
one depending on things. 

924
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,200
I think I know when this 
episode's going now I'll be on 

925
00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:32,840
holiday with my little camera 
and microphones. 

926
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:33,720
We'll see where we end up this 
time. 

927
00:42:33,720 --> 00:42:36,960
We're doing a little road trip 
around Nick's, Nick's Airbnb's 

928
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,440
of the United Kingdom and a few 
other places. 

929
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,600
So yeah, TuneIn on Tuesday for 
next Tuesday he break talks. 

930
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:43,920
We talk about Shopify news, few 
other bits and pieces going on 

931
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:45,840
showing some learnings from our 
agency, stuff we're working on, 

932
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:47,560
stuff to see works, stuff that 
doesn't work. 

933
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,600
And then also every Friday we're
posting one of these episodes 

934
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,480
with amazing guest like if you 
want to come on the show, then 

935
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:54,200
go and check out our website. 
Loads of ways to get in touch or

936
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,160
e-mail us. 
Hello at winning 

937
00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:57,080
witchshopify.com. 
Thanks for tuning in and hope 

938
00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:00,080
you can join us again next time.
Hey guys, I just want to take a 

939
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,280
moment aside from today's 
episode to introduce one of our 

940
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941
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942
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943
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944
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945
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946
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947
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948
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949
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950
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951
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952
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That code again winning.