1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:07,760 How do you guys therefore go about pricing your again, I 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,120 mentioned the products are beautiful. 3 00:00:09,120 --> 00:00:11,440 Like I mean they look incredible in terms of the design on them 4 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,040 and then you can see the craftsmanship. 5 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:14,440 Just some of them are in the background as well. 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,080 If you're not watching some video guys, I highly suggest 7 00:00:17,080 --> 00:00:19,440 going on our YouTube channel or check out one of our socials to 8 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,040 see see the backdrop, but the products are beautiful. 9 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,400 How do you go about working out the price of the products once 10 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,160 you get into the region of like, we're not the cheapest, we don't 11 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:31,320 want to be the mega, mega premium, but how do you find 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,600 that balancing point per product? 13 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,840 Well, first of all, to me it's about value. 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,640 It's it's all about there's, there's several factors. 15 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,680 One is you have to keep an eye on what your real competition is 16 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,280 charging for their products. And typically for us, that goes 17 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:55,600 from 30 to 40% more, up to two to more X times what we charge. 18 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,480 And so because we make all of our products in our own shops, 19 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:04,080 they're all uniquely ours. We designed them and we source 20 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,800 the leather, we source of all the materials, the hardware, the 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,640 brass, everything on it. We have as much control as you 22 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,480 can possibly on not only you know your cost, but also your 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,880 quality so you know what's in it. 24 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,000 So our goal from day one, I wanted to create and and deliver 25 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:28,200 the greatest value that I could see in the leather goods 26 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:31,320 business. So you buy a $500 leather goods 27 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:35,760 products from us, I really want you to be buying an 8 or $900 28 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:37,760 product honestly for what you get. 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:42,280 What's incredible is that we, we really never taught that, you 30 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:46,360 know, but we have reviews all the time that says, Oh my gosh, 31 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,280 you're way under pricing this product. 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,360 This is a $1500 bag and that makes us happy. 33 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,040 That makes us happy. But we know that quality begins 34 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,040 with the materials and then it continues all the way through 35 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,200 your craftsmanship. And then my background in 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,840 manufacturing was I spent almost 10 years with Procter and 37 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,280 Gamble, which is I think one of the best manufacturers in the 38 00:02:07,280 --> 00:02:10,120 world. So what we learned was to do it 39 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,880 right the first time. There was never enough time to 40 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,560 do it right the second time. So you make it right. 41 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,040 And then later when you deliver this to your product to your 42 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,000 customer, you know your, you know your cost. 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:25,000 Of course, you know, the markup that you need to have in order 44 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,400 to be able to deliver the services and everything that you 45 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,640 get, you know, including, you know, a lifetime promise. 46 00:02:31,640 --> 00:02:34,040 If the product ever fails because of materials or 47 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,360 craftsmanship and that sort of thing, we're going to stand 48 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,320 behind it and and either repair or replace it. 49 00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:43,400 What's amazing to me, Nick, is that when you look at huge, huge 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,120 brands like Louis Vuitton and East St. 51 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:52,840 Laurent or even Coach or any of these big brands, none of them 52 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,000 have lifetime promises. Yeah, yeah. 53 00:02:55,000 --> 00:03:00,280 And the question is, you're spending 3 to $5000 on a bag, 54 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,400 why would you not stand behind it with some kind of promise? 55 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:06,160 What is the context of a cookie banner? 56 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:07,760 What is a cookie banner supposed to do? 57 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,880 How is it supposed to work, and why are they not? 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,120 I don't know if you use this phrase, but from my point of 59 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:13,800 view, when I look at how they work and how people use them, 60 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:15,440 they're not fit for purpose, are they? 61 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,000 They don't really do what they're supposed to. 62 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,040 We'll start with one simple principle. 63 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,440 I think everybody agrees with what you just said. 64 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:25,880 Everybody I've spoke to in government, everyone on any side 65 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,840 of the political spectrum all agrees that cookie pop up 66 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:32,600 consent banners are not fulfilling any purpose 67 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:34,960 whatsoever. They're interruptive to the 68 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,400 customer journey people take, yes, just to get to where they 69 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,800 want to go to. And that does not constitute 70 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,520 consent in any way because it's not specific and informed 71 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,560 consent. So it's not even real consent 72 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,960 under GDP. And the design of like accept, 73 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,400 reject and manage, there's arguments over what color they 74 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,240 should be, what size should they be the same? 75 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,080 Can you just make accept the bright red color and tiny tiny 76 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,640 little font for like reject or manage cookies or whatever and 77 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,720 say people just trying to get past the banners, aren't they? 78 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,760 Exactly. And so the ultimate objective 79 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,040 that that we share with the government and, and I'll go take 80 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,000 you through a little bit philosophically, the argument 81 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,800 that we made is that they are not fulfilling any purpose of 82 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:18,959 making the individual safer online when they're interacting 83 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:21,680 with the websites they're doing business with or the publishers 84 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,200 they're engaging with content with. 85 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,520 So it's not serving any purpose of improving data protection 86 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,600 whatsoever. In fact, it's just annoying 87 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,240 people. And when we look at our whole 88 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,280 approach to get in that balance right, first, we always look at 89 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,880 it from the customer's perspective because we're a 90 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,040 marketing trade association and good marketing always starts 91 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:45,760 with customer first principles. But interestingly enough, many 92 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,760 of the obligations of data protection legislation are in 93 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,000 fact customer first principles and ask you to think about what 94 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,720 your customers doing and how what you're doing might impact 95 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,600 your customer, which is something marketers should do 96 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,600 anyway as a matter of course. But our guiding spirit and 97 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,360 looking at the legislation as a part of GDPR called recital for. 98 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:10,160 So the recitals in the text tell you how it should be 99 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,280 interpreted. And Recital 4, written by the EU 100 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:19,280 and adopted by the UK, says that data processing should be 101 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,760 designed to serve mankind. And it goes further. 102 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:27,200 It says privacy is not an absolute right, it's a 103 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,440 fundamental right, Interesting, which must be balanced with 104 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:32,160 other fundamental rights. OK. 105 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,200 And it gives a long list, including the right to conduct a 106 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,960 business. Does your e-mail marketing suck? 107 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:41,520 Do you wish it converted better and integrated? 108 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:43,440 Better with your store? Well, there is a. 109 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,680 Solution. We partner with Siguno who are 110 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,320 an e-mail platform that is built into Shopify, which means you 111 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:50,440 don't have to leave. Shopify to go and. 112 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,320 Manage your e-mail campaigns so you can run your marketing at 113 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:55,280 the same place and run your shop to learn more. 114 00:05:55,280 --> 00:05:57,440 You can claim your free customer analysis and strategy. 115 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,560 Sessions and visit. Saguno.com. 116 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,760 Forward slash Shopify that's S e.g. 117 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,440 Uno.com forward slash. Winning Shopify Saguno is made 118 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,920 for merchants, not marketers. What is changing in the? 119 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:11,560 Subscription space at the. Moment there? 120 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:13,080 What's evolving? So we're seeing a lot of 121 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,360 different things, right? You're seeing how AI started to 122 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,520 have an effect on the industry, which is having an effect on 123 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,080 most industries. And I think what becomes 124 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,960 important there is how you're using AI, but also more 125 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,320 customization, right? So how do you customize the 126 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,640 experience for the consumer to make sure that not only do they 127 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,400 subscribe, but they don't churn and you don't have a big 128 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,400 retention problem. We're also seeing frequency 129 00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:37,800 changes. So being able to offer frequency 130 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,880 opportunities based on what the consumers needs are. 131 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:44,880 So let's use, for example, let's say that you are a protein 132 00:06:44,880 --> 00:06:48,800 powder brand and you've got a subscription or auto ship or 133 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,080 subscribe and save. I work out four to five times 134 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:53,520 per week. Another individual might work 135 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,640 out twice a week. You know, just offering a 136 00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:01,040 monthly subscription to a tub of the protein may not always work 137 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:03,680 because one individual might only, you know, go through that 138 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:06,800 tub of protein over two months. I might go over it over one 139 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,040 month. So you got to be able to have 140 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:11,680 that cadence. If you look at like, if you look 141 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,120 at like Farmer's Dog, Farmer's Dog does a really good job of 142 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:17,440 adjusting the cadence based on the consumer's needs. 143 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,760 So when you sign up for Farmer's Dog and you get those daily 144 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,560 meals for your pet before the next renewal, they'll ask a 145 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,840 question about two weeks out, they'll say how many meals do 146 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,160 you have left? And based on your response, 147 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:30,800 they'll adjust the next renewal date. 148 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,880 That becomes really, really important and it allows for less 149 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,120 churn and more customization and being able to follow the needs 150 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,960 of the consumer. How's AI changing the e-mail 151 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,720 landscape at the moment? Or how should people be using AI 152 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,000 in e-mail? Yeah, absolutely. 153 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,600 Well, I just want to make one thing clear that I for one, 154 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:51,840 welcome our AI overlords. So you know, if they're 155 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,320 listening, I do welcome them and wish them well as they don't 156 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:56,320 need. Imperial Guards. 157 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:58,160 They're part of the River Alliance trying to help. 158 00:07:58,280 --> 00:07:58,760 Us. That's right. 159 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,280 I think AI and e-mail is coming through in a couple of different 160 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:04,680 ways. We've we've been talking about 161 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,440 the tools for years now and people said, oh, I can do all 162 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:10,320 this with AI. Look how much more productive I 163 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,960 am. And you know, then it's the 164 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,360 distrust of is this a real video? 165 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,560 Is, is Nick even a real person? Or is this an AI bot that 166 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:21,400 somebody designed or? Someone took that much nonsense 167 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:23,040 on a podcast for so many years now like. 168 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:25,520 It's a training model right there. 169 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:28,920 But now what we're hearing on on the e-mail side of things is 170 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,920 we're getting back into kind of the fear of the unknown, right? 171 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,919 And so a lot of folks are thinking of AI in emails almost 172 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:39,679 just the next extinction event, right. 173 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,840 So if we keep having these extinction events in e-mail, I 174 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:46,600 think I'm on my fifth one by now in my my own time in e-mail. 175 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,240 You know, when you lose tracking or you lose, you know, Gmail's 176 00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:53,840 adding promotions tab. It's the end of marketing as we 177 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,520 know it and AI sorting in, in summarization, it's the end of 178 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,360 what we know. And the, the truth is that, you 179 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:04,840 know, e-mail still has the top ROI of any marketing channel and 180 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,920 it will continue to be the most cost efficient because you're 181 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,120 talking to your customers, you've got your, your audience 182 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,160 right there. You know, you're not just 183 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:14,600 sending your message out into the ether. 184 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,080 So I think when you understand a little bit more about the way 185 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:23,440 that AI is interacting with the content and also how the inbox 186 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,600 providers are using it, and then also how your customers are 187 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,600 using AI to view your content, it, it takes away a lot of that 188 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,480 fear. And it's just kind of going back 189 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:34,920 into, you know, the basics that hopefully we'll we'll dig into a 190 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,120 little bit more here. Yeah, yeah. 191 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,160 And I guess with that inbox, for example, I think I mean, one of 192 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:42,880 the first points we're we're going to talk about is filtering 193 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,800 how, and I assume that's what was meant by the question around 194 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,160 like an AI filtered world. Like when you send emails out to 195 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,000 people now, how does AI actually do the filtering process? 196 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,680 Like is it in the spam filter? Is it they filter things in 197 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,360 people's inboxes? Is it there like loads of us are 198 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,600 starting to use the functions of like, you need to follow up with 199 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,520 this person. It reminds you to do things like 200 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:03,640 that. And you're like, Oh yeah, I sent 201 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:05,000 that. You know, I sent that contract 202 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,360 months ago. They still don't sign it. 203 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,880 And see, you know, there's all these things it's supporting 204 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,200 with. Like how is it affecting 205 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,560 specifically when brands are trying to send emails out to 206 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,360 communicate with customers is either at mass or 1:00 to 1:00? 207 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,720 Yeah, absolutely. So there, there are more AI 208 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,520 tools that we're we're seeing evidence of in the spam 209 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,440 filtering and that's really more of if your emails are getting 210 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:28,840 through to your provider or to your recipients or not. 211 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:31,800 And we get that kind of on the inbox provider level. 212 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,840 So they're using these tools just like we are to be better at 213 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,800 their jobs. They're better at detecting 214 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,680 what's spam, who's an engaged contact, who is doing something 215 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:47,400 crazy, and they need to protect their inboxes, you know, protect 216 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:53,320 the inbox from these senders. But then really that is up to 217 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:56,400 just you doing the right thing and those best practices that we 218 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,200 always talk about. But then when it does get 219 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,560 through, what people are afraid of now at this point is kind of 220 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:05,640 the growth of the the next level from the promotions folder. 221 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,960 And that's kind of you're doing a lot more sorting, a lot more 222 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:11,520 prioritization. Things are moving around in the 223 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:15,840 inbox right now. You know, there are Gmail app, 224 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,240 Apple Mail app, which is most of the American inbox providers. 225 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,800 You know, there are Superhuman, there's all sorts of these 226 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,160 different providers that are starting to bring more of the AI 227 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:28,720 in there. And what they're doing is 228 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:32,280 they're kind of organizing based on what they think that 229 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,680 recipient wants to see. So there's kind of a layer of, 230 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,440 hey, we're going to apply our AI filters to all of your mail. 231 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:42,160 And then for Nick's inbox, what do we think Nick wants to do? 232 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,320 He wants to be reminded about that contract that he still 233 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,600 hasn't gotten paid for, right? So we're going to move that to 234 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,440 the top. Hey, contract lapsing. 235 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:52,920 They're looking at the content and kind of only three things, 236 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:55,560 right? So the the pieces that we're 237 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:57,720 we're kind of looking through here and I'm, I'm trying to 238 00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,280 remember my notes. It's it's going to be a little 239 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,160 bit more in terms of your previous engagement, right? 240 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:07,520 The machine learning of when you receive it like this, are you 241 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:08,800 opening it? You're clicking it, you're 242 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:11,000 responding to it. OK, That's going to bring you 243 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,760 out of kind of the promotions folder or the shopping folder 244 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,360 and into the inbox. All right? 245 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,920 And then it's going to try to read the content and that's 246 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:21,600 where you start to see some interesting things when you're 247 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:23,480 reading the content. We're finding a lot more in 248 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,760 terms of clear call to actions and urgency. 249 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,360 Discount expiring now, discount expiring tomorrow. 250 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,440 That's right up at the top or Bill due today, right? 251 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,320 And this is, these are for all different types of emails. 252 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,200 Those are going to get moved to the top because they need to 253 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,000 catch your attention. And those are the urgent ones to 254 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,680 deal with right now. And then finally, it's going to 255 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:47,360 be more explicit feedback is going to play into that. 256 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,200 So if you yourself move an e-mail from promotions to 257 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,200 primary, well then they're going to learn that. 258 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:56,480 They're going to move that up the filter up into the, you 259 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,200 know, the models and try to use that get to learn for the next 260 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:00,480 time. But those are kind of the three 261 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,880 main factors that are going to tell you where your inbox, your 262 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,440 emails landing in the inbox, if it's in the promotions tab, and 263 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:08,400 then how are you going to get the call out there? 264 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:11,560 Yost have just launched something that is absolutely 265 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,200 game changing. 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Com to learn more and grab your 277 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,640 discount. Now the the knee jerk reaction, 278 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,040 and I know you were thinking about this is, oh, I'm just 279 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,840 going to put a lot of misleading content in my emails to say do 280 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,160 today, you know, but try to trick the AI. 281 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,040 Well, if there's one thing you don't want to try to get into 282 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:11,960 that argument with, it's the the AI. 283 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:15,320 We'll learn from you quickly. So we've seen some people try 284 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:20,560 some some bad decisions and work for once or twice and then they 285 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,360 have to dig themselves out of the spam folder and it's harder 286 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,840 than ever to do that. We've had plenty of conversation 287 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,680 in the past about how to rebuild your vacation. 288 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:34,560 So but yeah, there's that's the the unknown, but it's really not 289 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,040 that. When you think about those three 290 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,200 factors, it really doesn't get that complicated. 291 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,480 Right. I'm going to jump straight in 292 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,480 with the big hitter. People have probably seen this 293 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,720 in the title. In nine months after you started 294 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:48,360 the business, you were doing $400,000 a month in revenue. 295 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,680 How on earth did you scale to that level so quickly? 296 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:55,880 Well, a lot of things. I would mainly say we just have 297 00:14:55,880 --> 00:15:00,200 a really good product and our niche space of padded apparel 298 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,240 doesn't really have any competition on meta ads. 299 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:06,040 I'd say that's the main reason why we've scaled, but a lot of 300 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,640 other factors as well. Cool. 301 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:09,240 So you've, I mean, we'll talk about competitors a bit later. 302 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:11,240 You've obviously got some competitors and we'll kind of 303 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,320 talk about that sphere. But I'm, I'm interested to hear 304 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:15,720 more later in the recording. Let's let's talk a little bit 305 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,320 later about the meta ad side of things. 306 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,440 And but I mean products, for example, if people haven't heard 307 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,840 of case like you got not you got 400 in nine months, you've got 308 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,800 $400,000 of revenue coming in people buying your products. 309 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,040 Firstly, what is the product? And in my notes, it says the 310 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,080 $70,000 you spent in product development, you maxed out some 311 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,680 credit cards, told me through that process and how wisely or 312 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,000 unwisely you might have spent some of that money, like what 313 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,800 was the development to get the thing launched? 314 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,800 Yeah, I mean, I don't think I spent the $70,000 too wisely. 315 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:51,600 So to get it launched, I was really dumb in the beginning. 316 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,440 I had no idea what I was doing. I literally just, I went on to 317 00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,720 Google or I, I think I asked Chad GBT like, Hey, how do I 318 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,040 make padded apparel? And then it was like, oh, you 319 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,120 should message manufacturers on Alibaba. 320 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,920 So then I went on to Alibaba and I just looked up like padded 321 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,480 jacket and I just like messaged 10 people and I'm like, Hey, can 322 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,600 you make this? So that's how it started, OK. 323 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:17,480 And you know it, what I thought would be like a 2 month 324 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,600 prototyping process turned into like an 8 month prototyping 325 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,480 process. So we didn't get our first sale 326 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,320 until like eight months of trying to design this product 327 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,080 and you know, we scaled to 400 KA month within nine months of 328 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,600 our first sale. But before that was a whole lot 329 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:39,840 of product iteration anyway. So after we kind of started 330 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,080 working on the prototyping process, we had like 10 331 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:47,880 manufacturers sent us products. I liked three of them kinda so 332 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,200 that I told those 3 manufacturers, hey, can you like 333 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:52,840 fix this and this and send me a new padded jacket. 334 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,400 And then I just went through that cycle like 10 times over 335 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,800 until I had a product I was really stoked on. 336 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,119 Even though we have a new manufacturer now, because even 337 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:06,359 after a year of product iteration, the product still 338 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,040 wasn't absolutely amazing. I actually just flew to China 339 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,640 like 3 weeks ago. We were in Pakistan, switched to 340 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,040 China. Products iteration has been a 341 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,079 grind man since the beginning. I really, really have not done 342 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,839 it in a smart way at all. And you know it's funny because 343 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,640 in the beginning I thought it was going to be like maybe you 344 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,119 know, 20,000 bucks to get this process started, which is money 345 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,960 that I had. But then it started to get more 346 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,960 expensive, started to get into the 70K plus range. 347 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,920 So my Co founder and I had to Max out all these credit cards 348 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:39,840 to keep on funding the iteration. 349 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:43,200 And then my dad came in as an initial investor right? 350 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,920 And it just ended up costing way more than I anticipated to get 351 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,920 this products off the ground. So literally having unsellable 352 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:55,160 products when I was spent my entire personal savings on the 353 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,840 product development in the beginning was pretty stressful. 354 00:17:57,840 --> 00:17:59,640 But I was already in so deep. I was like. 355 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:01,720 And I. Can't click now. 356 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,400 How do you put my whole savings on the line? 357 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,920 I need to make this real. Was that the main reason that 358 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,440 stopped you quitting then? Was it just like I've spent so 359 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,200 much money, I need to make that back now? 360 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,680 Like, I mean, it's the worst gambling strategy ever. 361 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:16,720 It. Was like a certain cost policy 362 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,160 yeah it's like all these other brands are good but they're 30 363 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,960 years old and they're corporately ran and or this like 364 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:30,040 startup floor riders by riders making these cool like Instagram 365 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:31,640 and Facebook ads. I mean, if you're a mountain 366 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,360 biker scrolling on Instagram, you've never in your life seen 367 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:37,000 an ad for padded apparel on Instagram until you've like seen 368 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:39,200 our brand. But every single mountain biker 369 00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:41,240 I've talked to now is like, oh, I see your ads all over my 370 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:43,480 Instagram. It's cool because we've been 371 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,160 like the only one that kind of touching this Meta ad space 372 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:47,520 because these other companies are great. 373 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,040 But like they literally do like newspaper ads and they like 374 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,560 sponsor a writer. Very old school style marketing, 375 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,600 right? Which is good. 376 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,840 But you know, we kind of have this unique play of not doing 377 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,560 old school style marketing, which has worked for a lot of 378 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,200 customers so far. Yeah, yeah. 379 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,000 I mean it obviously has looking at some of your stats, what, 380 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,320 what have been some of the challenges going in nine months 381 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,680 up to $400,000? Like what have been some of the 382 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:16,280 issues with like warehousing, fulfillment, product supply, 383 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,400 like dealing with customer, you, you suddenly go from like no 384 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,800 customers to hundreds and then thousands of customers. 385 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,520 How have you guys managed to keep up with just the volume of 386 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,720 new things that have come along, new challenges that must have 387 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,240 come along like week by week? Yeah. 388 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,000 I think we have had issues with like all six bullet points that 389 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:33,840 you just mentioned. OK. 390 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:39,120 Yeah, being like a true first time founder in E com is rough. 391 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,640 I'd have 0 experience with any of this. 392 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,960 So for example, like we were initially shipping orders out of 393 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:54,160 this like warehouse that we kind of illegally rented to like, and 394 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,880 we like drive to the FedEx store manually. 395 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,280 And then then we were like, oh, we should get a three PL. 396 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,480 So we literally just like Google three PL. or #gbt and just like 397 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,400 talk to the first one and like send them products. 398 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:07,440 And then we ended up wasting $50,000 on that three PL. 399 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,720 Sheesh free nightmare when we finally got a warm intro. 400 00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:14,920 And like now we're in a good three PL. shout out ship Nomad. 401 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,160 But anyway, it's like, yeah, for everything that you've 402 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,320 mentioned, it like truly is an AB test. 403 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,160 Sometimes we get lucky on the 1st test, sometimes it's a big 404 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,320 waste of money. Honestly, you have, I, I've 405 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:28,160 worked with thousands of businesses, like I honestly have 406 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,000 never met anyone even close to, to your personality type rate. 407 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:33,960 And the way you approach it. It's, it's almost like a, let's 408 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,360 just spend some, let's just spend some money or do something 409 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:38,320 radical that could destroy the company and just kind of see 410 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,320 what happens. I, I, I love, I know you spoke 411 00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:43,800 about this from a creative point of view on Meta, but it's like 412 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,320 you guys are taking that to the core of the company where 413 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,520 they're playing safe and secure with their Meta content. 414 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,840 They also will have these long drawn out board meetings going, 415 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:57,960 OK, should we invest $50,000 in testing this new 3 PL. solution? 416 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,240 You know the finance director is going to go right? 417 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,400 I've got a long list of demands. You guys have already spent the 418 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,320 50,000 and found Chip Nomad and found somebody who actually does 419 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:08,360 it well and does what you need. Yeah. 420 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,680 Is that your approach to everything so far? 421 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,560 Like, and it's fine if it has, but like have you guys, have you 422 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,680 guys had to take like, I don't want to even say a more serious 423 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:18,880 view because if it's working, what you do is working. 424 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,640 But have you guys had to take a more considered view and 425 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:23,400 actually take a step back on things and go, this isn't 426 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,280 working or a certain thing we're trying to achieve at the moment, 427 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,760 It's not working. We need to think about this. 428 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,920 Or has it literally been a sort of let's just do it and see what 429 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:31,840 happens in in like every approach? 430 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,560 I think we're starting to transition into that second 431 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:38,600 thing you're talking about like right now, now starting to get 432 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,080 at scale and we like have employees. 433 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,600 To lose them, haven't you We're. Starting to do things a little 434 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:44,920 bit more properly. You mentioned Kickstarter. 435 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,560 Tell me more like is that every time you've got a new product, 436 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,840 is that where you push it initially to get those 437 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,400 pre-orders and start getting some, some cash in and awareness 438 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,800 on it? Yeah, Yeah. 439 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:57,720 I think awareness bit is really, really big and and also I think 440 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:01,280 it's a really good process actually. 441 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,000 Like As for us, like we're sitting now doing I'm doing a 442 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,120 Kickstarter. I'm actually filming right now 443 00:22:07,120 --> 00:22:10,280 in my living room of a doe that's like a rising. 444 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,040 So I can use that into the. So we're like, we're we're doing 445 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,720 a video where we're really explaining the product into 446 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,440 detail, but also having it catchy enough for it to be a 447 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:24,240 meta ad afterwards. And and then we're also doing a 448 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,680 page explaining that you're doing Kickstarter. 449 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,440 Like, what is this product? What why is it amazing? 450 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,560 And then doing different and pledges or like, you know, yeah, 451 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,760 how we're going to sell this off. 452 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,120 And it's such a good way to also show like, OK, this is a 453 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:41,360 product, this is what we're doing. 454 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:44,040 Then we have a sales channel, but what you also have, you're 455 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,000 going to have other people look at it, be like, I can sell this 456 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,920 in my store, but I can sell this and this and this. 457 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:53,720 And then before we even push the button on production, we of 458 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,960 course have a number of how many people, but we maybe also have 459 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,200 some kind of retail order that will go into that bunch. 460 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:05,640 So it's, it's just a really good way of not having yeah, of 461 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,680 putting too much cash into something that you don't really 462 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,720 know is going to fly or not. And then suddenly you're sitting 463 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,440 down with stock or you're paying for all this stock that is 464 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:19,440 sitting in a warehouse somewhere, and you're just like, 465 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:21,840 OK, I have 10 years to like, get through this. 466 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,960 Yeah. And there's again, just for the 467 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,040 time we won't talk about today, but there's a whole, there's a 468 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,480 whole like archive of strategies of how to get rid of some of 469 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,440 that old stock. But it is it's discounts, it's 470 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,120 giving some of it away like in if it was going to drive profit, 471 00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:37,240 it would have done that in the 1st place. 472 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,240 Well, I love the fact you guys are using Kickstarter to pre 473 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,360 empt that. I think one of the interesting 474 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:43,840 things you've mentioned as well when it comes to stockists. 475 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:46,800 So doing wholesale with some of the products is the better you 476 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:47,920 position. Well, the better. 477 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,200 Firstly, like this is a product people want and we check the 478 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,680 data and people do want this product. 479 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:52,720 They're engaging with this thing. 480 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,360 So we're going to make some of them. 481 00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,480 And then running a Kickstarter with good content that helps the 482 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,240 next person along in the chain who's going to sell it to the 483 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,400 end customer in through wholesale or retail. 484 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,720 It gives them so much more to go after because you've got to 485 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,280 think how many products they're finding, seeing, being pitched 486 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,880 to all the time, saying you should stop this because you 487 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,240 know you're going to get a big order if you stock my product. 488 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,760 They're getting that all the time. 489 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,480 So the better the content and positioning and hey, look, 490 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,400 people are buying this like crazy from us and you can stock 491 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,800 it in your shop as well. It starts to build such a better 492 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,800 profile to make that a success, doesn't it? 493 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,760 Which also helps you long term. Then if even if you guys 494 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,120 struggle to sell it, having at least one stock is selling it. 495 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:35,720 Well, you could say no, we're happy to give you a bit more of 496 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,120 a discount on that. We're struggling to sell them, 497 00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,160 but you're selling loads of these things, so why don't you 498 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:40,760 just take all of them? Yeah, yeah, they're fine, 499 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,440 especially if there's a better, better margin because I know I'm 500 00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,680 selling them. So I think that it gives you so 501 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,720 many more opportunities on that. Do do you find it's better then 502 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,240 to design with a better brief of we know people are interested or 503 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,120 going to buy this product or, or we we know people bought lots of 504 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:55,920 that product and were close enough to the data and the 505 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,160 customers on the ground. So now designing actually I've 506 00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:00,880 got a better brief going the next version or the next thing 507 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,560 I'm designing, it's going to really help people and I've got 508 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,320 data to support that does that. Would you say as a designer, 509 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:09,160 that helps you kind of narrow yourself down into, yeah, this 510 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,800 is, this is, this is a good thing, and therefore it's easier 511 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,760 to design rather than just a blank piece of paper? 512 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,360 Definitely, definitely, yeah. Because we're always that we 513 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,520 have new ideas constantly. And I think what is actually 514 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:24,080 what we what I've seen the last couple of months is that now 515 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,600 when we're back in our designing phase and we're figuring out, 516 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,320 oh, we could also do like a land mower that could do this and 517 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,840 this and you could grab the snails. 518 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,480 And you know, we have all these weird, weird I design ideas and 519 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:39,600 I think that all of this, all these ideas, they just like they 520 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,040 make us figure out a find new ideas, new IT. 521 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,120 So it's such a good way for actually, you know, people to 522 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,640 say, OK, stop. No, actually that one I would 523 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,720 buy like these are really funny. But no, you know, so I think 524 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,640 it's a really good way to, as a designer to be a little bit 525 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,720 restricted. This episode of Winning Shopify 526 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,640 is brought to you by Tax Cloud. It's the busiest time of year 527 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,840 for e-commerce. Your stores buzzing, orders 528 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,400 flying in and growth is at an all time high. 529 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,560 But with all that momentum can come new sales tax exposure that 530 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,560 you might not even see coming. That's why now is the perfect 531 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,800 time to take a closer look at how you're handling sales tax 532 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,920 and make sure your business is set up for the growth that 533 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:16,800 you've earned. Tax Cloud is our trusted partner 534 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,600 for sales tax compliance. Built for growing Shopify 535 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,920 brands, they handle regulations, filings, and ongoing compliance, 536 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,240 working directly with the states on your behalf across the US. 537 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,600 So you can stay focused. On running your store, they've 538 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,200 got a five star rating in the Shopify App Store and listeners 539 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,200 winning the Shopify get free migration on boarding. 540 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,840 When you make the switch to apply for that and learn more, 541 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,920 you can get a tax cloud COM forward slash winning that's Tax 542 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,360 cloud.com/winning.