1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,320 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:04,560 Thing influencers are used to getting stuff for free, but we 3 00:00:04,560 --> 00:00:07,160 can use a gift as a way to compensate them for a. 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:10,480 Post There's too much focus on trying to get Kim Kardashian to 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,320 wear or or carry something. That's what's resonating with 6 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:15,720 consumers today because they don't trust basically anything. 7 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,360 And we look at these engagements, these collabs, as 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:21,760 basically kind of like dating. Being brutally honest and if any 9 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:23,440 of my clients are listening, please block your ears. 10 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:29,960 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Winning with 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:32,280 Shopify podcast. If it's your first time tuning 12 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,440 in, hit the subscribe button. Leave us a really good review. 13 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,480 If you like this show, If it's not your first time here and you 14 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:39,280 haven't done those things and please go and do those things. 15 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,800 It helps the show. Today we are talking about 16 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:44,400 influencers and we're talking about influencer gifting. 17 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,080 So I'm going to try and make sense of some of my notes. 18 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,280 I'm actually recording this intro a couple of days after I 19 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,880 recorded with Brett from a fluencer who is an absolute 20 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,920 legend. But do not miss today's episode. 21 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,200 Brett shared some incredible things that can help boost and 22 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,040 grow your business that don't cost the earth but could make a 23 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,520 massive difference to your profits. 24 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:04,519 So we spoke about how hard it is to try and DM influences, how 25 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:08,240 different influencers promote themselves and how you can 26 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:12,000 promote yourself with them. The smell gods. 27 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,600 I'll leave you to find out what the smell gods are very shortly. 28 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,400 Difference between nano influences and micro influences 29 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:18,760 and how big their followings are. 30 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,920 How to make it a win win with influencers, How to negotiate 31 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,640 with influencers. What the best content forms for 32 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:28,080 brands are right now, which I think generally slight bit of 33 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,000 humble pie here, but I think it's one of the best questions 34 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,400 I've ever asked the guest. So you gave them this incredible 35 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:35,040 response to that as well. What you can do with the $1000 36 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,200 budget with some micro nano influencers. 37 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,640 How to set expectations. What influences 1. 38 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,480 Getting content, Content yourselves in the process. 39 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:46,440 How much control or freedom to give the influencer from your 40 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,680 perspective. Don't make too many assumptions 41 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,240 in life. Protecting your brand. 42 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:52,960 Some of the worst mistakes that brands make when working at 43 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:54,640 influencers. And the most important thing we 44 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,200 talk all the way through this is about influencer giftings. 45 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:00,520 The process of sending a gift to an influencer and wanting them 46 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,560 to review your product. Hope you enjoy this episode. 47 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:05,560 Make sure you watch until the end because some of the best 48 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,240 questions happened in the last 10 minutes. 49 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:08,680 Yeah, hope you enjoy the episode. 50 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:11,760 Obviously you guys are one of our partners here and you guys 51 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,320 have an offer for winning with Shopify listeners. 52 00:02:13,320 --> 00:02:16,320 So I thought it'd be worth just sharing that before we get into 53 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,640 the kind of how TOS and some of the good stuff we're going to, 54 00:02:18,640 --> 00:02:20,960 we're going to share today. Like if people want to play with 55 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,400 your platform and they obviously listen to this podcast, what's 56 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:25,560 the URL to go to? What's the offer? 57 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:27,360 And and obviously we'll talk more as we go through the kind 58 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,760 of why they should be listening to, listening to you guys. 59 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:31,320 Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah. 60 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:35,400 So the URL is affluencer.com/WWS, as in 61 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:41,120 winning with Shopify. So it's AFLUENCER com WWS. 62 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,120 We have a free 30 day trial of our Shopify app that's available 63 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:45,800 there. There's also an opportunity 64 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,720 there where you can book a strategy session with me for 30 65 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,120 minutes and we do this. We put our cameras on Zoom and I 66 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,240 can share my screen with you if you'd like and go through one of 67 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,560 my influencer accounts. We can look at your site and 68 00:02:57,560 --> 00:02:59,600 talk about what you're looking for in terms of influencers. 69 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,480 That's often very helpful for people who are new to influencer 70 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:03,920 marketing. And I can kind of tell you what 71 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:05,960 I've seen working especially in your industry. 72 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,960 And we can kind of come up with a plan that makes sense in terms 73 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:12,720 of, hey, here's what we want to post for our collab, here's what 74 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,680 we're looking for from influencers and kind of get your 75 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,800 role in there and get some influencers applying to work 76 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,120 with you. And I think that that is half 77 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,880 the problem you've just explained actually is like, even 78 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,040 though influencers have been around for like 10:10 or so 79 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,560 years now, I mean, thousands if you think about it, like there's 80 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:28,960 always someone who's influencing something. 81 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,920 But in terms of like digital content creators, Youtubers, 82 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:34,960 Instagram, as it's still, it's still quite an unknown thing for 83 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,080 people. So I think actually having a 84 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,960 session with someone like yourself, I know from experience 85 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,600 and for all of you guys listening, if you said to Brett, 86 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:43,880 like, look, this is my business. Who can I target? 87 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:47,000 Who can I talk to, show me some success stories, Brett, be like, 88 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,400 oh, there's a million things you can do here. 89 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,000 You can try that, try that, try that, try that, try a bunch of 90 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,240 them and see if one works and if it works, keep doing it. 91 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:54,880 If it doesn't. So definitely, definitely put 92 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,080 that session. I think that Brett's going to be 93 00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,040 pretty busy hopefully once this show goes out. 94 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:01,640 So get in there quick if you if you want to have a conversation 95 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:03,920 with Brett and the team and equally definitely check out the 96 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,400 app. But we're talking specifically 97 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,480 about gifting, influencer gifting. 98 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,240 So tell us Brett, like what is influencer gifting and why? 99 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,680 Why should people care? What's that big advantage that 100 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:15,760 is actually behind influencer gifting itself? 101 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:17,720 Yeah. A couple nice things about 102 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,640 gifting 1 is that when we think about what we're looking for 103 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:23,400 from the influencers, we want them to post or even better yet, 104 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,000 do a video, right, that promotes our product. 105 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:27,680 What's the best way for them to promote? 106 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,960 The best way for them to promote is for them to have our product. 107 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,600 So that is kind of a natural transition where if we send them 108 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,560 the product as a gift, and that is kind of the expectation these 109 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,200 days where they're not really going to pay for something. 110 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,800 Influencers are used to getting stuff for free, but we can use a 111 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,560 gift as a way to compensate them for a post or for a video. 112 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,960 So that will will at least get them started. 113 00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:52,560 Maybe we need to add a little paper post, maybe we had some 114 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,760 Commission to make the offer even more compelling. 115 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,360 But a gifting strategy can work really well from getting an 116 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,040 influencer's attention, having that content created that we're 117 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:05,640 looking for, and then also having our product in the video, 118 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:09,160 which is our end goal there. Absolutely, and I mean, nothing 119 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,280 pops more for a potential customer as well than seeing 120 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:14,320 their favorite influence or somebody they follow actually 121 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,080 using a product. I think some of us consumers 122 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,080 probably, you know, with all our consumer hats on for a minute, 123 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:22,920 we probably wouldn't like to actually admit how often we've 124 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,280 seen an influencer use something and go, do you know what, honey? 125 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:28,720 I've seen this particular type of lights that works or, you 126 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:30,880 know, actually we need a new pushchair for our baby. 127 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,360 And and actually I've seen this one That's amazing because you 128 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:35,480 can fold it up. I, I, even the other day I saw 129 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,840 this amazing video that Aston Martin had commissioned for an 130 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:43,160 influencer where this guy was basically doing a like buying a 131 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,160 brand new electric vehicle versus an Aston Martin and why 132 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,720 an Aston Martin is a better option. 133 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:48,920 And there were just three things. 134 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:51,920 One was you can fit your golf clubs and your pram all in the 135 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:54,080 boot, all in one go. And he tried every model of 136 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:57,080 tester Tesla and couldn't. And the second was that the 137 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,040 Aston Martin was cheaper than a new Tesla for the same speed. 138 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:02,360 So you get an Aston Martin end of it. 139 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,200 And #3 was like, and who doesn't love an Aston Martin? 140 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,680 Like turning up to school, like you're not going to run any kids 141 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,760 over if they hear the roaring V12 engine coming up behind 142 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,240 them. Like, whereas an electric car is 143 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,160 a silent killer. And I thought it's just really, 144 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,320 really, really funny way that the influencer could say some 145 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,960 things Aston Martin couldn't. But it was clearly a paid 146 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,160 promotion by Aston Martin. I thought was just so clever the 147 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,560 way this guy was just like 123 Bosch, like that's that's why 7 148 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,600 Aston Martin and I don't know whether they gifted him the 149 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,360 Esther Martin or just lent it to him. 150 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,880 But I think, as you say, like having the having the actually 151 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,000 having the content creator, the influencer use the product means 152 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,120 that it just it feels so much more real to the customer than 153 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:43,120 you would ever get across in my world in a, you know, PPC ads or 154 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,960 in a landing page. How much more effective do you 155 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,440 think it is in terms of getting across the message of the 156 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:50,200 product and how the product works compared to the 157 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,480 traditional? Like here's an advert, a landing 158 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,760 page, and maybe a tutorial video rather than the influencer. 159 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,640 Yeah, I would argue it's almost everything these days. 160 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,240 I mean, people are so consumers are just on the lookout for 161 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,520 anything that smells like advertising, corporate, anything 162 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:06,720 that's like a brand. You just really don't want a lot 163 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,240 to do with that versus the influencer where it's like a 164 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,160 personal connection. They don't you, even though the 165 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,160 influencer is making money from their creatorship, shall we say, 166 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,000 they don't view that person as a business. 167 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,360 They view that person as a friend, right? 168 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:21,600 So they're following that person as an individual. 169 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:25,120 And that's where if you can find the right influencer to promote 170 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,880 your brand, whereas they can put your product in somewhere 171 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:30,080 natural, right where you're following the Aston Martin 172 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:31,880 person in it and it flows seamlessly. 173 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,080 That's what you want. You don't want necessarily 174 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:36,760 something out of left field. You want someone, if you're 175 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:38,840 following someone for health advice and they've got a health 176 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,880 product that that they believe in or they're at least excited 177 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:45,760 to try, right? So you want to from a brand 178 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,880 marketing standpoint, match that up. 179 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,280 But that's the that's what's resonating with consumers today 180 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:52,680 because they don't trust basically anything. 181 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,040 So that's why the influencer marketing referrals or the 182 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,000 creators that they follow online are so successful in terms of 183 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,200 selling product today. Absolutely, absolutely. 184 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,840 And I mean, sometimes like brands actually use the phrase 185 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,160 don't, don't they have them And we someone's put it in ads as 186 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:07,880 well, like don't take our word for it. 187 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,080 Check out what people are saying. 188 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,720 And the influence is like an interesting hybrid where like 189 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,440 they're still on the kind of paid side, but they are coming 190 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:18,120 in with this independent hat. And I, I know quite a few 191 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:19,880 influencers and content creators, and a lot of them will 192 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,040 say, like, if a product's not great, I will go back to the 193 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,720 brand and say, do you still want me to post this? 194 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,400 And crafts and brands are like, yeah, just please be honest. 195 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,640 Like, actually, we don't know. All news is good news. 196 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,000 We don't mind you saying, like, this product doesn't do this, 197 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,520 this and this. And I asked the brand a while 198 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:36,360 ago, like, why? Why would you even allow that? 199 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,080 Like, surely you just want those good things being said. 200 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:39,960 You know, there must be a reason behind this. 201 00:08:40,159 --> 00:08:42,679 And they said actually we use this influence because their 202 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,680 audience were very interested in our products, but they're not 203 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:48,200 quite right for it. So actually it's quite a nice 204 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,720 way of going, don't buy our one, buy someone else's. 205 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,200 And because they were having an issue with returns and customer 206 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,760 service. And I thought that was 207 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,360 fascinating. I want to come on to content in 208 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,080 a minute actually and talk about what we can use some of the 209 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:02,600 creators content for. But in terms of gifting, like is 210 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,600 it always free? Like just the product itself you 211 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,480 send out? Should you offer to pay in the 212 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:09,440 process to influencers? Try and charge? 213 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,320 Like what are some of the commercials look like when 214 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:12,880 you're gifting a product to an influencer? 215 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:15,760 Yeah. If we look at going influencer 216 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:20,080 rates today in terms of if we were just paying for a post, if 217 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,280 we look at the monetary value, right, of what it cost to get 218 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,400 someone to post or do a video on the nano influencer range. 219 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,280 And nano influencers are going to be the people with roughly up 220 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:33,120 to 10,000 followers. They're going to be up to $100 221 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,200 or so per post. And again, this is if you go out 222 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,320 to Instagram and you contact a random nano influencer and you 223 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,520 say, hey, I want you to do a post for me right up to 100. 224 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,240 And if we go to the micro influencer range, it's going to 225 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,120 be 10 to 50,000. It's going to be up to about 226 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,640 $250 for the post. So we think about the gift right 227 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:55,360 as a part of that compensation or all of the compensation in 228 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:59,200 the case of the nano influencer, up to 10,000, where typically 229 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,880 it'd be up to $100. Typically a gift is enough to 230 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,440 get the attention of a nano influencer. 231 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,600 That's about all you need. If you get into the micro 232 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,440 influencer range, it depends on and maybe how many followers 233 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,120 they have, what their engagement rate is, whether you need to add 234 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,920 a little bit on the paper post to make it compelling for them. 235 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,960 But the gift definitely counts and I would argue it counts more 236 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:23,120 than its dollar value there. So that's a nice advantage as a 237 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,240 brand because you've got this kind of baked in compensation 238 00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:30,280 way that you can get there towards the influencer and then 239 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,600 figure out, hey, do we still need a little bit of money to 240 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,200 get this deal done or are we mostly there with the gift? 241 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,640 It depends also how you're approaching the influencer. 242 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,440 If you're going out on Instagram and you're asking people what 243 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,400 they come back with is going to be their list rates, right? 244 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,240 They're going to give you what they call their media kit or 245 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,240 their creator kit. It's going to say, hey, here's 246 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,680 what I charge and you're not really going to get a deal. 247 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:56,120 Whereas if you do post on a on a platform and I give our users 248 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,760 this example, we find influencers will work for about 249 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:01,160 half of their list rates because you're posting and you're 250 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:03,720 saying, hey, I got this opportunity now I've got a gift 251 00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:06,160 that's ready to send, would you like it or not? 252 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,760 And then they've got to make a quick decision and maybe it's a 253 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:10,440 slow week for them. So you can kind of get these 254 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,000 things to work in your favorite when you get the influencers 255 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,280 approaching you versus you approaching the influencers. 256 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,040 I love that. And I mean, two things I really 257 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,120 want to pull out of that One is like, it is a negotiation, isn't 258 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:22,600 it? It's you don't just have to go 259 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,880 like it's not like you're buying a T-shirt and going, it's $20.00 260 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:28,160 for this T-shirt and I'm going to haggle or the brand's going 261 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:30,720 to be like, like it's a different relationship. 262 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,920 And I think like you don't always want to negotiate them 263 00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:34,200 down. I think, as you say, like 264 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,080 actually say actually do you know what? 265 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,640 Yeah, you're saying it's $50.00 for this post, but quite like 266 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:40,880 you're following. I think this is going to work 267 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,240 well. Like, is there anything we could 268 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,120 do if we gave you 100 for the post? 269 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:45,920 Like what else could we get? And if they say, well, we'll put 270 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,960 some money behind it or keep the 50, you can promote it or you 271 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,640 know, reshare it on your channel and promote it and boost it 272 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,200 yourself. That starts to open more doors. 273 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,840 I think we're, we're just talking about winning Shopify 274 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,360 content before we hit recorded. We've been doing this quite an 275 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,320 amazing exercise and go and check out our YouTube channel 276 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,160 everyone and see how much our views are going up because we've 277 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,520 been paying the same per week to boost our videos for probably 278 00:12:09,520 --> 00:12:12,080 about six months now. And it's not a lot like it's 279 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:16,320 less than $100 per video, but the, the algorithm's starting to 280 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,640 catch on and we're starting to improve the way we've titled, 281 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,800 edited the call to actions in our content, the way we're 282 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,320 structuring our content, we, we're optimizing all of that. 283 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,000 And we're actually finding we're getting more and more views for 284 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,640 the same money because the YouTube algorithm goes, whoa, 285 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:30,160 you've paid for like, you know, 500 people or something or 1000 286 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,680 people to watch this video. This is some cool content. 287 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:34,200 I'm going to let some other people watch this video. 288 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,320 And it, the snowballing effect starts. 289 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,720 And it's the same on Instagram as well. 290 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,040 I think that negotiations really, really key and which 291 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:42,480 leads me to my second point, which is a win, win. 292 00:12:42,680 --> 00:12:45,560 And I think being able to say to a, you know, an influencer, like 293 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,560 we're only offering the free product, but we're going to 294 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:50,240 promote this. Your audience can grow off the 295 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,240 back of us doing something together. 296 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,680 That is so much more powerful, isn't it, Brett? 297 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,160 It is. It is, yeah. 298 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,320 And I like how you talk about the extras, Nick, because there 299 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,320 are lots of extras if you think about the world of social media, 300 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,480 right? So an influence, and again, I 301 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,480 mentioned the goal I think today is having to promote a video or 302 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:08,680 a real because these are getting favored treatment in the 303 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,480 algorithms, especially Instagram, right? 304 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:14,080 But then we think about how that video can be repurposed that can 305 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,560 often be posted to TikTok. I mean, it's almost a plug and 306 00:13:16,560 --> 00:13:19,040 play for the influencer. So now you can be on two 307 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,720 different platforms and they can post a little bit of it as a 308 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,600 story on Instagram and stories can get links and swipes and the 309 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:27,320 click throughs. So there's lots of ways that we 310 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:29,720 can repurpose and go out to YouTube and the person has a 311 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,280 YouTube channel. So there's lots of different 312 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,760 ways that we can have them repurpose the same content. 313 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,240 You could potentially use it. So there's lots of ways to go 314 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,240 with it that we can do for being creative. 315 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,080 And I like to just turn it on the influencer. 316 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,600 I keep my negotiations more or less open-ended. 317 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,520 And I like to say, hey, here's and I've already got it posted 318 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:51,080 for the collab. Here's our range. 319 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:54,040 I had 100 to $200, right? And maybe it gifts part of that. 320 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:55,440 And I say, well, here's what we can do. 321 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,280 We can gift you if we're doing a little bit of money, I'll say 322 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:00,720 what that range could be. And I'm like, I'd love to hear 323 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,520 what you can do with this. And then have them come back 324 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,640 with their best offer. And a lot of times that's what 325 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,520 you get. You get, OK, I can do Instagram. 326 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:09,160 I by the way, I can do that on TikTok. 327 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,040 I can do the stories. So I want to hear, you know, I'm 328 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:13,360 just looking for this thing to be successful. 329 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:14,560 I'm not looking at pinch pennies. 330 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:17,040 We're looking for ROI. So what can you do to help us 331 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,720 with ROI? And if that, you know, involves 332 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,280 a little more compensation, that's, that's, I mean that's 333 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,320 fine with me as a marketer. Yeah, yeah. 334 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,160 And I think ROI is a really pivotal point here because one 335 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,520 thing I love about you Brett, and for anyone listening like I, 336 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,240 I speak, I talk to a lot of social media people and not 337 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,680 saying you're purely in social, but you're in the influence of 338 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,880 space. One thing I love about Brett 339 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,840 that I don't find from everybody else that I talked to certainly 340 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:43,600 most people is the ROI conversation. 341 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,080 And you're, you're so hot on that Brett. 342 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,040 And I love that because you recognise that these are 343 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:50,040 businesses paying for something and they need to see the return, 344 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,240 whether it's brand awareness, people buying products. 345 00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:55,400 So I'm going to ask a really difficult cool question and you 346 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,840 feel free to not answer, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on 347 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,680 this. What do you find is the a good 348 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,400 thought process at the moment for brands when they're choosing 349 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,120 exactly what you just spoke about, the right content forms 350 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:10,280 and the right channels to go on? Like what's a good process for 351 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,880 someone to go through if they're sitting there going, I'm selling 352 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:14,360 this product versus someone that's selling something 353 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,280 completely different? Like how do you how do you work 354 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,880 out which channels to target, therefore which influences to to 355 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,760 communicate with? Sure. 356 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,720 Yeah, Yeah, I think the default is still Instagram. 357 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,960 So we're looking at, hey, let's get some content out there 358 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,080 promoted on Instagram. Let's do the videos because the 359 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,240 videos are getting, again, the preferential treatment from the 360 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:35,160 algorithms. And there you've got the ability 361 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:38,120 to go viral. And what you're seeing on 362 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,440 YouTube with your winning with Shopify clips. 363 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,840 That's something that brands can see on Instagram when they 364 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:47,080 produce reels where you could have an influencer with 10,000 365 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:50,320 followers, they could produce a reel and they could get 100,000 366 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:51,520 views. And how is that? 367 00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:55,000 It's because Instagram said, hey, we got to get this video 368 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,320 out there. So that's kind of what we're 369 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,080 going for is a brand owner, right? 370 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,000 We've got that asymmetric kind of return where we can say I'm 371 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,920 going to invest gift or $100 in this video and I got the 372 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:10,040 potential to go big. So that's how we're starting 373 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,360 with the videos. We're starting with Instagram. 374 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,000 But if they can also pose to TikTok, if they can also do a 375 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,320 story on Instagram and I would look at the other channels. 376 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,560 As a bonus, maybe they've got a Facebook page with 20,000 377 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,160 people. We kind of leave that open to 378 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:27,320 see how many channels they can post on. 379 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:31,200 And I think then if we think about the size of the 380 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:36,760 influencers, the final part of this ROI, our experience is that 381 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,680 the nano influencers can get you the content and maybe some 382 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,880 sales. You're not going to see a huge 383 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,040 ROI from nano influencers just because of the reach, right? 384 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:48,880 If someone has 3000 followers, typically it's going to be 385 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,760 limited on the reach. Not saying they're not great to 386 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:53,320 work with. They can be great to work with, 387 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:55,280 especially if you're new to influencer market and get your 388 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,280 feet wet because you can work with Nanos, you can do some 389 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,840 gifts very reasonably priced. You can get some great content 390 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,200 posted and maybe you run that and like a break even and that's 391 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,839 just getting your your feet wet in the influencer marketing 392 00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:08,880 realm. The real sweet spot for the RRI 393 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,760 is kind of the micro influencer. So in that 10 to 50, even to 394 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,359 100,000 followers, that's where the party's at in terms of 395 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:20,079 having very reasonable cost, but they've got the reach that 396 00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,560 you're looking for and those videos have the potential to go 397 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:25,960 viral. And then above 100,200 thousand, 398 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:28,680 that's almost, you know, it's almost another no go zone with 399 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:31,840 you because you're just paying too much money up the chain. 400 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:35,600 If you're paying 1000 or $2000 a pose, now we're talking. 401 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,840 It's very tricky to get an ROI because now you've got to be 402 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:40,640 moving some real product with those types of people. 403 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:42,720 Not that they can't, but the odds are starting to stack 404 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,440 against you as you get into the macro influencers and 405 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,440 celebrities and beyond. Yeah, yeah. 406 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,360 And for anyone that's never heard Brett talk about this 407 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:53,800 stuff before, you've just heard what I would argue is one of, 408 00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,320 and I don't say this lightly, I've been doing this nearly 18 409 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:58,800 years working in marketing. What you've just described, 410 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,800 Brett, I would say is one of the best explanations of what brands 411 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,920 kind of small to medium brands should be focusing on when it 412 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:07,360 comes to their influence to strategy. 413 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:10,360 I think there's, there's too much focus on trying to get Kim 414 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:14,000 Kardashian to wear or or carry something or just retweet 415 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,200 something and go great. We had a million people hit the 416 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:18,600 site, not as many orders as we expected, but it was still 417 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:20,600 really good. And then we have nothing for six 418 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,040 months and it's like, it's just such a one hit wonder. 419 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,120 I love the fact that you're talking about that, that micro 420 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:28,680 influencer space I think is so, so important. 421 00:18:29,320 --> 00:18:31,600 We, we've spoken quite a few times before publicly like this, 422 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,800 haven't we, Brett? And something we, we both agree 423 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,440 on and talk a lot about is the engagement when you're trying to 424 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,760 look for someone as a, as a influencer, don't go for someone 425 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:41,760 that's got like, I mean, you said it was kind of 10 to 50K. 426 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:43,720 Don't go for someone that's got 49 K. 427 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,000 They're right at the top of that micro. 428 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:47,240 It's not a magic number. You know, it could be 55, could 429 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,000 be 60, but say they've got 60,000 followers. 430 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:52,000 And actually when you look at the engagement, you're only 431 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,880 getting 5 or 10 likes. This person does not have an 432 00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:56,720 engaged audience. But I think if you do your 433 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,000 homework and use a system like yours, you can find those people 434 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,000 quicker and have that time saving, which time is money, You 435 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,160 know, you're saving money not having to reach out to everyone. 436 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,560 Like we said right at the start in the Wild West trying to get 437 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,320 them to engage. If if you go to business, say 438 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,680 they were turning over, I don't know, $200,000 a month, say 439 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:17,680 they're doing kind of 2424, sorry, two, yeah, $200,000 a 440 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,320 month, they're doing 2.4 million a year. 441 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,640 Trying to do some mental maths late in the late on a Monday 442 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,560 afternoon, but let's say they're doing 200 KA month. 443 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,800 How many micro influencers is a good amount for these guys? 444 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,000 Say like they've been doing it a while. 445 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,200 What's the kind of target to get to where it's like, OK, these 446 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,520 are the biggest people we can work with, as you say, before we 447 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,040 get into like the ROI just become so unachievable. 448 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,480 How many people are we looking to manage here through 449 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:46,000 Affluencer? I, I, I like to initial keep it 450 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,160 small. I like to say, hey, let's get 451 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,760 this collab posted. Let's see if we can find you 5 452 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:54,440 great partners that you're excited about to partner with. 453 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,960 And we try them all out, right? And we have them each do a reel 454 00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,160 and you send them a gift. And maybe we're doing a little 455 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,320 bit of paper post in addition, depending where they fall and 456 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,960 what they're looking for, right? But let's start with something 457 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:09,280 really manageable, right? Let's start with five and maybe 458 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:13,680 we're budgeting. $200 total if we're counting the gift plus the 459 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,000 compensation. So let's say $1000 for the 460 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:17,440 campaign. We're gonna find 5 partners 461 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,120 you're really excited about and see how we do. 462 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,400 That's a nice kind of very manageable budget. 463 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,640 And then we've got five people who are going to try out and 464 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,840 let's see how we do. And ideally we've got at least a 465 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,120 couple that we like and we want to bring back and work with on a 466 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:35,240 recurring basis. So we bring them back next 467 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,120 month. And and then also we just keep 468 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:41,640 trying out additional people. So as we keep the collab open 469 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,920 and and they keep applying. So we try to ultimately build 470 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,760 that base. I'm not sure if there's a target 471 00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,640 number we need to hit. As long as someone is producing 472 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,000 for us, if they're selling, we're going to keep working with 473 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:55,480 them, right? And we'll just keep kind of keep 474 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:59,440 running that back and then we'll just keep that pipeline full 475 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,440 also. But I like starting with a very 476 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:03,920 manageable number. Sometimes we see brands come on 477 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:08,080 and they want to go gung ho and they say, why can't I want 478 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,120 unlimited in, but why can't I invite 100 people? 479 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:12,400 And I'm like, the reason we don't let you invite 100 people, 480 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,160 it's for your own good. We don't invite 100 people, 481 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:16,600 right? Let's get this out well here 482 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,120 first we want them applying to you and then the invites that 483 00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:20,640 we're using. Let's be smart about it because 484 00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:24,320 we don't want 100 people like let's get to let's manage this 485 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:25,920 ourselves. We don't want to outsource it 486 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,800 initially to give it to an agency. 487 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:29,320 Let's make sure we're doing this right. 488 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:32,760 And let's start with a very, you know, this team that we can feel 489 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,880 good about and kind of build it from there. 490 00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:37,160 I love that. And I was going to ask like, how 491 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:38,920 much did someone invest in like Round 1? 492 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,560 And I think $1000 to work with five good micro influencers, but 493 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:45,920 doing exactly what you say. And I'd love to kind of dig more 494 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:48,080 into this, especially when it's around that kind of gifting 495 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,600 piece that here's a product plus $200. 496 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:52,240 As you say, each, you know, that's what we're going to 497 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:53,960 provide. That will get us some I, I take 498 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,160 it that'll get some good shop window space and attention of a 499 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:57,720 few goods. Microwave influences. 500 00:21:57,720 --> 00:22:00,080 Will it? If you put 200 per post amazing. 501 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,840 And we, but I think the most important thing is like setting 502 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,920 that expectation, isn't it? Having a conversation with 503 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,960 saying we need to get like, if we're spending 1000 or $200.00 504 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,040 with you guys 1000 times. So we're giving you $200 to do a 505 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:13,280 few posts with us. We put in to make four or five 506 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:16,920 of $100 back in revenue given our margins and almost set those 507 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,520 as an expectation, say, look, if you can help us achieve this, 508 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,480 then actually there's $200 pretty much whenever you want 509 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,040 it. If you continue to deliver that 510 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,600 two to 1/3 to 1/4 to one almost ROI. 511 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,400 And it's, it's important to set that expectation, isn't it? 512 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,360 It is, yeah. Let them know, hey, here's our 513 00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:34,120 goal, right? We, we want to sell. 514 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,160 So we want you to sell so that we can keep doing this. 515 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:40,160 And we look at these engagements, these collabs is 516 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,880 basically kind of like dating, right? 517 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,680 It's a it's a it's a one time thing, but we would love to have 518 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,040 dinner again, right? And we would like this for this 519 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:51,840 to be a regular thing. And on the influencer side, 520 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,720 influencers want nothing more than regular brands to work with 521 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:59,160 a long term engagement and some old it's kind of ironic because 522 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:01,880 if you go out to Instagram and you start D Ming influencers, 523 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,320 it's going to be crickets. Nobody is going to reply to you. 524 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:06,920 It's going to be very hard to get a hold of people and then 525 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,360 you start talking, talking to them on a, on a platform like 526 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:12,720 ours and they'll say, oh, hey, you want to sign up for three 527 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,880 months, six months. But that's kind of the beauty of 528 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:18,080 the collab is like, we're going to do this once and then see how 529 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,520 we do yes, let them know, hey, here's our goals and here's how 530 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,560 you can sell. Also, I think they kind of know 531 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:27,160 like from the content that they're creating. 532 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,280 I, I like to go hands off because they're called creators 533 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,640 for a reason. They can do a much better job 534 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,040 than I can come up with. And I like to be as hands off as 535 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:35,920 I can. Like, hey you, I'm going to send 536 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,000 you this and you do your thing, right? 537 00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:41,480 But let them know for sure the business goals and especially 538 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,720 the mechanics of it, like, hey, we're selling this product. 539 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,800 Can you get people back to this page specifically? 540 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:51,360 So here's the URL and here's where we want them to go so that 541 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,480 we can sell. And I want to be able to track 542 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,800 sales so that we can work together again next month. 100% 543 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,480 I love that and I'm going to completely change gear now. 544 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,560 I think I love your your example of setting expectations and this 545 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:04,040 kind of applies to that. I think. 546 00:24:04,360 --> 00:24:06,880 Tell me if I'm wrong on this, but I want to talk about like 547 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,560 the actual content they create themselves. 548 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:12,400 And the reason why I think it links in is setting the 549 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,720 expectation of saying that, OK, we want you to create some stuff 550 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,480 and we either A, we just want you to use it on your channel, 551 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,600 B, we want to use it on your channel, we want to share it, we 552 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:24,400 want to embed it in our website. But we're going to at you and 553 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,560 credit you and copyright you as the owner of this stuff. 554 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:31,680 But it's all about us or C, we want you to not post on your 555 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:33,800 channel at all which way you send the content. 556 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,640 And we want to use it ourselves. Actually, we want to use you as 557 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,600 a content creator rather than an influencer or some sort of 558 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:42,320 combination of all those things. How does that process work? 559 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,320 I fight brands completely screw up at this point. 560 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,760 They don't set the expectation. Then they or they have 561 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,840 permission to use content and don't or they say, oh, I don't 562 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,480 really like the content. It's like, well, you chose them. 563 00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,920 They've done what they always do and you told them what to do in 564 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,680 their style and it's come back wrong. 565 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,760 So in the kind of light of setting expectations and doing 566 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,680 gifting campaign, how should a brand kind of get up in the 567 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,720 morning and set themselves right with all the influencers to make 568 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,680 sure that they can either use or not use, but know what they want 569 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,840 to do with the content or at least keep their options open? 570 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:56,960 Yeah, great question. And that comes up a lot, Nick. 571 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,920 And often we'll have brands who want to do AB or C or some 572 00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:05,480 combination or D or E or F and anything is possible. 573 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,240 But the expectations to your point are very important because 574 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,040 by industry default, it's A. So if you just start working 575 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,080 with someone, the expectation on the influencer on the creator 576 00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:18,800 side is that it's going to be a, they're going to create the 577 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:23,080 content, they are going to post it on their social media feeds 578 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,080 and it belongs to them. And you could then jump in with 579 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:32,400 B in terms of sharing it because that's also possible via the 580 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,480 platforms. But then there's no hey, you 581 00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,520 see, we're, we're, we're running this on our side. 582 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,280 Not that it's, it's very doable to do that. 583 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,000 So if you would like the content either after they post or in 584 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:50,240 lieu of the influencer posting, you want to come out and and let 585 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,480 them know that I like to do it just in the collab listing. 586 00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,200 Like, hey, if we're just looking for UGC, the user generated 587 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,120 content and let's say we just want to post it to our site and 588 00:26:58,120 --> 00:27:01,200 we just want you to create it, Let's just come out and say that 589 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,680 like, hey, we are paying 150. Dollars. 590 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,960 This is the job, Yeah. We want you to do this. 591 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:07,160 Yeah. Yeah, this is the job. 592 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,080 And by the way, then I would like to review it before. 593 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,280 So I would like 1 revision and, and let's just outline 594 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:16,960 everything because that really clears a lot of things up. 595 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,240 You do see the disagreements later and, and you don't want to 596 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,480 have the disagreements later because that's when both parties 597 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,320 get offended and they get mad at each other. 598 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,880 And that's what somebody like me has to kind of step in and, and, 599 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,840 and mediate, right? Because I, and I can, as I 600 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,840 follow the communication change because they're both asking me 601 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,080 to look at it. And I can see where the 602 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,520 communication fails because the generally the brand is not 603 00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:44,920 specific and the influencer assumes a, they always assume I 604 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,640 will create the content. I will do it once and then I 605 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,680 will post it like it or not. And that's kind of the default. 606 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,840 So if you want something else as a brand, make sure you say that 607 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,040 like, Hey, I would like to see this before you post it. 608 00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,240 I would like 1 give me one revision on it. 609 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,760 If you're sensitive to what the content is, you have to kind of 610 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:05,640 say that. I would say as a brand, it's not 611 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,560 really fair to change the rules after. 612 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:10,280 You can't say, hey, I don't like that. 613 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,880 If you didn't kind of provision for it or you can't say, hey, 614 00:28:13,120 --> 00:28:15,080 this didn't sell anything, I'm not going to pay you. 615 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:20,240 That's not cool either because influencer made the video, you 616 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,160 know, to the best of their ability, right? 617 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,800 So as a brand, you wanted to find the rules early on and, and 618 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,160 honestly, it's something you can do. 619 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,040 And this is something we do provide our clients with. 620 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:32,920 I had our, our attorney whipped up a nice little, little 4 page 621 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,920 agreement, very informal, but it'll, it's something that you 622 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,360 can put and you can put the bullet points in. 623 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:41,400 Hey, here's what we're looking for. 624 00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,840 We're looking for this XY and Z and you send it via Hello sign 625 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,960 and the influencer sign and you're just, you're all the same 626 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,080 page going in. And it's not something you're 627 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,560 not going to sue them over $200 if things go awry. 628 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,240 But it really helps set those expectations and gets everyone 629 00:28:55,240 --> 00:28:57,920 on the same page. Because I do think to your 630 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,280 initial point, it's very important that that the industry 631 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,440 default is that the influencers can just can produce something 632 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,640 and post it. So if you want something 633 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,280 different, it's very possible, but just say it so that everyone 634 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:12,000 knows going into it. Yeah, Yeah. 635 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,560 I think I'm, I could always make a cross section of this and I 636 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,840 think on one axis is the control versus freedom. 637 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,680 And I think it's a it needs to be a bit of a conversation. 638 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,200 You need to find the balance in the middle. 639 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,760 I've certainly seen brands before be so strict and 640 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:27,640 someone's gone. Wow, this is my favorite. 641 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,560 I know global car manufacturer. I love this car brand. 642 00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,160 I actually own one myself. They're letting me drive a new 643 00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:37,120 one and they come along and go, no, there's no creative freedom 644 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,880 actually. Like I, you know, I want you to 645 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:39,880 do this, this, this, this and this. 646 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,120 Think having that, having that conversation early on and 647 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,600 someone's asked the, I mean, you said this yourself to me before, 648 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:48,480 like ask the content creator, the influence themselves to say, 649 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,720 if we just gave you this car for a week, what, what are your 650 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:53,440 first thoughts? Like what could you come back 651 00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:55,400 with some ideas of what you'd want to do with it? 652 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,920 And then be honest with them and say, right, we were expecting 653 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,880 more of this, this and this, but we quite we're interested in 654 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,640 what you've said as well. Can we meet in the middle 655 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:05,560 somewhere? So we still have a campaign that 656 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,400 respects our company, you know, brand values, which some of the 657 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:11,720 ideas you suggested haven't. But actually we love this 658 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,840 creator idea of you going on some sort of road trip in this 659 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,760 vehicle. And I think that's one set of 660 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:18,360 access where you've got to balance those two things. 661 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:22,200 The other axis is, as you say, being clear on expectations, but 662 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,520 not making them like restrict. Remember, these are creative, 663 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:29,720 often single person entities. So it's like, try not to 664 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,320 restrict them too much to say, hey, we want to do something 665 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,360 with you, but we basically want you to pretend to be something 666 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,280 you're not. That's not it's not going to 667 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,080 work to their audience as well because their audience is. 668 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:40,240 So like if someone tuned into winning with Shopify and I was 669 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,960 doing, you know, an endorsement of some tool that I clearly 670 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:46,160 always say bad things about and they pay me enough money, they 671 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:48,880 came on the show and people would see straight through that 672 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,960 and go, Nick, you were always moaning about Google and stuff. 673 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,760 And here you are saying how fantastic they are. 674 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,160 If Google came on and they they were close at one point and I 675 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,080 actually said, look, I kind of want to stay independent. 676 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,960 I'm afraid. We've had Shopify on quite a few 677 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,680 times. But even then, like there's been 678 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:05,800 a couple of rounds of edits where they've asked for changes 679 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,520 after we've shot, I've asked, I've said, I don't want to 680 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,240 change that actually, because that was us just talking was my 681 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,120 perspective of it rather than we weren't announcing something 682 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,720 within Shopify. Actually, I said it, not 683 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,800 Shopify. So like, it was me saying, Oh, 684 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,480 this would be cool. And yeah, maybe that would be 685 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:21,200 cool one day. And we ended up keeping it in 686 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:22,640 just because we had that conversation. 687 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,160 And so like, I think that communication is so important. 688 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,280 But I love the phrase of like, you know, assumptions of the 689 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:29,520 mother of all screw ups. And I've made that a little bit 690 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:31,560 more politically correct for the episode today and. 691 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,080 There is. Some different words you can use 692 00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,080 in that. I think it's just getting rid 693 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,000 that ambiguity, isn't it? It's just been really clear on 694 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:39,720 like this is what we're looking for. 695 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,080 That's what you want to do. And yeah, we're aligned here. 696 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,240 So let's just put it on a piece of paper and sign it. 697 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,760 And it means we don't have to pull Brett in if it if it all 698 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,520 goes wrong later down the line. Yeah, absolutely. 699 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:55,680 And I and I do find in terms of the control to be honest, a lot 700 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,400 of especially up and coming are smaller brands, a lot of smaller 701 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,040 brands over think this and they and they in my opinion, they get 702 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,280 too controlling. They're worried about their 703 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,840 brand perception and I'm thinking. 704 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,480 What brand you? Have no brand. 705 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,240 Yeah, you should have no brand. And I know this from my 706 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,480 perspective because I've done startups before and influencer 707 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,560 when we're starting and when we start like we have no brand. 708 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:22,360 So I don't like just talk about it out there, Just create the 709 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,800 content, right? And, and, and let's let her RIP. 710 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,440 I'm not worried about, I mean, we, I, if you're a Fortune 500 711 00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,440 company, I get it. But if you're not, I mean, and 712 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:33,560 you don't have these liabilities, just just just let 713 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,920 them go, let them RIP and just kind of see what they can come 714 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:37,480 up with. Absolutely yeah. 715 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,960 I I think the whole making assumptions side of things is is 716 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,080 is very dangerous. But I, I hear what you're saying 717 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,840 and I think I mean one thing we, we're doing so much and I talk 718 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:49,400 about it almost every week on the show, say hashtag CRO and AB 719 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,520 tests. And you've got the ability to do 720 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:52,960 that exactly as Brett just described. 721 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,800 So if actually, if you work with five micro influences, you've 722 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,080 got the ability actually to work with all 5 and go, do you know, 723 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,400 and, and here's the thing that I say to clients all the time, say 724 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,960 it cost you $1000 to work with five. 725 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,520 What I would say is actually have $3000 ready and go, we're 726 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,320 going to do 3 rounds of this thing, but means we're going to 727 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,040 work with 15 people and we just need to find one. 728 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:19,040 We should find more, but we just need to find one. 729 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,640 And we, and we've cracked it. And I've, I've certainly had 730 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,720 clients before where we've been doing like CRO tests after CRO 731 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,880 tests and doing AB tests on it. And it's like every variant we 732 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,040 launch, it just doesn't work as well as the original. 733 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,200 And it's like, I'm actually going mad here. 734 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:35,680 Like this is so frustrating. Like, you know, has my whole 735 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,480 career been a lie? And and then you just get that 736 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:43,480 one where you're like, wow, revenues up 40% on this AB test. 737 00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:44,960 And it was, we have one recently. 738 00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,320 It was on something so simple as well. 739 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,400 All we did is we just changed the guarantee from three years 740 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,440 to five years. Well, sorry, two years to five 741 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,160 years. But it was literally like the 742 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,000 client and I both saying like, I bet people don't even care. 743 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,160 It's never come up on a survey. No one phones customer service. 744 00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,720 No one even says like, I've got a product, it's at one year and 745 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,240 eight months and I need to claim on my guarantee because it's 746 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,639 stopped working or something isn't it's a lamp and it's 747 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:10,760 fallen over and snapped. And I've put no weight on it. 748 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,679 Like I want to claim on my, on my guarantee on my warranty. 749 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,520 No one's ever done that. But it turned out to be such a 750 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:19,040 big trust signal to the to the clients. 751 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,239 I think of your 5 initially, why not try like one that one or two 752 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,920 that are super aligned, super safe, and three others that are 753 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,880 a bit more, bit more wacky. But I think this is where like, 754 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,600 and Brett, you and I have been preaching this for years. 755 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:34,040 Like your brand is not your own and you need to accept that it's 756 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,280 your customers. And the longer, as you say, it 757 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,080 does tend to be smaller brands. And I hate to say it, guys, but 758 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:41,800 some brands are small because of this. 759 00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:45,679 Like the small is a symptom of actually the bigger problem, 760 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:47,800 which is you're not building it for the customers, you're trying 761 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,520 to build it for yourself. It's almost like you want to be 762 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:50,960 right. And the more you kind of peel 763 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,960 that onion back, you find out it's hollow in the middle. 764 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,560 Like each need to focus on customers, I think and and say 765 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,720 so with influences like how, how much do you think brands should 766 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,560 be learning from the content, the engagement they get and 767 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:04,720 actually listening to the influence as well, given that a 768 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,160 bit like an agency like you or I like we work with lots of 769 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,200 brands, like how much they need to listen, do you think to that 770 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,400 advice and be less precious versus actually protecting? 771 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,720 Like that's our mission and our North Star. 772 00:35:14,720 --> 00:35:16,600 Like what's your experience been with that? 773 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:18,600 Yeah, great point. I mean, I would listen to the 774 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:21,320 influencer like you're listening to a customer because really 775 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,000 they are kind of that customer, but one with a bigger. 776 00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,840 I mean they're, they're they're like they're the type of 777 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,400 customer we all dream of, right. The customers who tell other 778 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,040 customers and and bring them and have this degree of passion 779 00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:35,400 about our products. So, yeah, I would listen to 780 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,640 them, I mean, at least as much as if you would any other 781 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,520 customer. And honestly probably more so 782 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,680 because they've got that megaphone. 783 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,480 And I think that's, you know, that's very, that's very 784 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,640 important. And I, I mean, I think you bring 785 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,280 up a, a great point in terms of looking at this with the focus. 786 00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,400 And I know you, you know, Nick, your, your bread and butter, 787 00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:53,160 right? AdWords, Google Adwords and 788 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,880 stuff. And you wouldn't just go to, I 789 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,440 mean, how fast would you run through something like 205 790 00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,480 hundred, even $1000 on Google Adwords, right? 791 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:02,760 I mean Google will take it like that. 792 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:04,560 Depends. Yeah, quick. 793 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:06,160 And you've learned nothing, right? 794 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:07,800 You've learned zero. You haven't gotten any 795 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,280 conversions. And so you do have to I think 796 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,760 your point about this being a process is, is a very good one. 797 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:19,480 You have to say, hey, we are, we know that just 2020 fending in 798 00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:23,560 2025 e-commerce influencers sell a lot of product. 799 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,280 And we know we have to figure out influencers. 800 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,680 If it's not our main thing, it's going to be one of our one of 801 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,440 our marketing channels and we're just going to spend on it. 802 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,560 And we're going to listen to your point, going to listen to 803 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,000 the influencers and see what they they think. 804 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,000 And, and, and maybe we need to rethink what we are because 805 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,320 we're just sitting around an office or we're on zoom with 806 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,160 their exec team talking about what we are. 807 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,680 But are are we really that or I mean, what is resonating? 808 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:55,760 Maybe we need to use the terminology that the influencers 809 00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:58,880 are using to describe us, right. So that's I think that's a great 810 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:03,400 point on the give and take and letting them run with maybe 811 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,520 there's some some aspects of the brand that we haven't thought 812 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,760 of. Yeah, well, I actually even just 813 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:11,520 spoke to a brand this morning ahead of recording this and they 814 00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:15,120 literally said to me like, yeah, we, we tried Amazon for like 3-4 815 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:16,320 years and they're quite a big brand. 816 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,720 You find them in almost every garden centre in the UK. 817 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,080 They sell their products like it's, it's really, really 818 00:37:21,080 --> 00:37:23,040 popular. But on their own website, they 819 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,040 were like, yeah, we tried, we tried Amazon and for like 3 820 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,480 years or something, we were spending bits here and there and 821 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,320 just couldn't get it to work. And then one of our team kind 822 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:33,680 of, I went, guys, I've finished the course on Amazon ads, can I 823 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,320 have £5000 a month spending it? And they were like, absolutely 824 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,280 not. And he was like, OK, but I think 825 00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:41,880 it could work and kind of pitch to his boss like, and he now 826 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,880 just manages it and eventually did get approval, but he refused 827 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,040 to touch it until he had £5000 a month to spend. 828 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:48,760 And the boss was like, how long is this going to take? 829 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:49,880 And he's like probably six months. 830 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,880 He's like, so you're asking me for 30,000 lbs? 831 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,560 He's like, if this works, I reckon I can print 150 grand a 832 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,080 profit a month. I reckon I can print that and 833 00:37:58,080 --> 00:37:59,920 like, we're going to spend more, but we can make it profitable 834 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:01,480 and then scale it. But less than 5 grand. 835 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:02,360 I don't think it's going to work. 836 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,040 Like I've been on some courses, I've been watching videos, I've 837 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:06,960 been playing with it. I've started my own drop 838 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:08,840 shipping store at home. Like it's working. 839 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,040 I can do it for you. He now works full time in that 840 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,240 company doing Amazon ads. So they've reached out to us and 841 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,000 said we also used to do Google ads and we couldn't get that to 842 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,160 work. So we stopped doing it. 843 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,040 So here we are eating humble pie and but literally the brief to 844 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,520 me, and this doesn't mean we're going to sit back by any 845 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:25,840 capacity. They've kind of like given with 846 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,440 one hand that they're going to take with the other kind of 847 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,800 thing, which is a good balance. They're going to give us a load 848 00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,920 of funding and say, look, you've got six months to spend like 5 849 00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:38,600 to $10,000 a month on our new US store, spend that and like just 850 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,080 make it work. But the bit we're going to take 851 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,960 is if it doesn't work, we're going to either start pulling 852 00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:45,320 the budget or we're going to turn it off. 853 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,000 So you've kind of got three months to show us some light and 854 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,280 then you've got another three months to make it profitable. 855 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,800 And I was sort of sitting, I know I was very honest back to 856 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,680 them and said, normally we would try make a profitable within the 857 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,200 three months. But the fact you've given us 6 858 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,560 means as soon as something is nearly profitable, we're going 859 00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:04,640 to pump budget behind it anyway and keep optimizing, which a 860 00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:05,720 very different way to look at it. 861 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:08,520 But they've got the UK business behind the US store. 862 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:09,880 So they've got money to put into this. 863 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,560 But it's amazing how, I mean, look at that transition of like 864 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:15,720 the internal perspective over how they flipped on its head and 865 00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:17,160 gone. There's no point doing it unless 866 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:18,840 we spend enough. And as soon as I sort of said 867 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:20,560 that, they were like, well, let's, let's tell you about our 868 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:22,520 Amazon ads. We think Google's the same and 869 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:24,440 we want to see the same kind of thing happen. 870 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,880 And lo and behold, four months in, he was profitable. 871 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,720 I was desperate to ask when they would explain. 872 00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:30,800 It's like, and when were you probably goes four months. 873 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,320 And I was like, all right, challenge accepted. 874 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,600 And it was like they were like, as soon as it is profitable, the 875 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,440 bit we're going to give you more is we'll increase our budget, 876 00:39:36,440 --> 00:39:38,320 which means your fee goes up and we keep growing. 877 00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:42,320 I think it's so important, certainly with influences, as 878 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,840 we've said, like you have that community communication piece. 879 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:49,760 And I think I certainly find that brands, brands either ask 880 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,280 too much. What do you think we should do 881 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:54,200 and should be coming up with some of the answers themselves 882 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,000 or they never ask, what do you think we should do? 883 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:58,800 Which means they miss out on good ideas. 884 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,120 Again, it's all a balance. I'm very much, I'm reading a 885 00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:03,120 book about balance at the moment, if anyone can tell. 886 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,240 And so we've got to keep it in perspective. 887 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,440 And but finally, Brett, to finish off, let's talk for a 888 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,600 couple of minutes about some of the mistakes. 889 00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,280 Brands make when they're working with influencers and they're 890 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,560 gifting products. Like what are some things that 891 00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:20,760 you wish all of our listeners today never ever make some of 892 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:22,200 these mistakes? Like what are some of the top 893 00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:25,120 top kind of screw ups that tend to happen? 894 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,840 I, I think the top topic that I see is they'll literally have 895 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:33,200 the, the first conversation with the influencer, the first 896 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,600 communication, what's your address? 897 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:37,240 And then they send them a product and it's like, ah, 898 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,200 there's he didn't discuss anything. 899 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,040 You just sent him the product and, and, and that was it. 900 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,240 And then? Guaranteed disappointment, yeah. 901 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,760 You just, you just ship them something out of the blue. 902 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,920 And, and now there's, there's, you know, there's no expectation 903 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,400 in terms of what are our deliverables here, right? 904 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:58,200 So that's the first one. And, and again, we talked, but 905 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:01,640 like before, we're going to ship something, let's make sure we 906 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,200 have expectations and, and, and deliverables. 907 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:08,800 Another thing that we saw common is that and, and there was no 908 00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,080 way around this, I guess. So this was a product of the 909 00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:17,840 just way things work, the wild, Wild West, but there was no way 910 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,600 to close the loop on it. Where you, OK, let's say we get 911 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,560 some expectations and we send somebody something. 912 00:41:25,240 --> 00:41:27,120 You're still kind of hoping, right? 913 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,240 So if you're out there on Instagram, you're really hoping 914 00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,040 because if you just send them something and they don't do 915 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,880 anything, you basically have 0 recourse to. 916 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,040 I mean, you're out. You're out the gift, right? 917 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:41,920 If you're on a platform like ours, there's a bit more where 918 00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:46,720 you can at least call me and I could step in and more often 919 00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:48,240 than not get a hold of the person. 920 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,440 And if I don't, then they're not on the platform anymore. 921 00:41:50,440 --> 00:41:53,800 So you get a little bit of protection from that standpoint. 922 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,480 But we did, we did a big gap where we're like, how is this 923 00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:01,880 not like Uber or Airbnb where you can review the other party 924 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,040 and say, OK, this is a 5 star person I'm working with, or this 925 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,680 is, I'm not a five star person. So I'm not even going to ship 926 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:10,440 them this gift. So that's something we've rolled 927 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:14,280 out in the Affluencer app where you can now ship it and we track 928 00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:17,680 it in the app. So you can say, OK, I saw, I see 929 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:21,720 delivery is made. And then from that point that 930 00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:23,960 the shipment is made, there's there's you got four weeks to 931 00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:26,040 review each other. So there's these deliverables 932 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,520 baked in. And then you can also see the 933 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,600 reviews of the other person. So you know who you're working 934 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:31,680 with. So you went and hit this Uber 935 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,480 app, right? You see who your driver is. 936 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,400 I, I, I don't know about you. I mean, I, I haven't had a bad 937 00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:41,560 driver in, in, in years because they've kind of filtered out 938 00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:44,880 system, right? I I, I remember, I mean 10 years 939 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,320 ago I hit someone, she was going the wrong way on a one way St. 940 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,760 and it was a disaster. But one job drive me to my 941 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,520 destination without breaking any laws. 942 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,640 Yeah, one job and I'm in a walk in booth because I can't drive 943 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,480 and and we're going the wrong way and I'm like, well, this is 944 00:42:58,480 --> 00:42:59,600 it. I, you know, I get the wrong 945 00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,240 Uber driver and, and and a reuse one, right, Right. 946 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,480 So kind of move towards that direction also. 947 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:08,840 So that's, I think another thing you can do is I, I wouldn't just 948 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,680 give people out of the blue if you don't know, you at least 949 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,320 want to be on a platform and kind of have some degree of 950 00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,000 protection there. And then I think a general 951 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,600 timeline on the expectations because it it's a holiday season 952 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,240 and people get busy and, and I see this a lot also where 953 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:26,280 they'll tell, oh, this person went radio silent on me and I 954 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,120 didn't hear and then they're doing the their holiday stuff. 955 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,320 Have some expectations like, Hey, I'm going to ship you this. 956 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,720 I want the content within two weeks of you. 957 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:36,400 Are you cool with that? You're going to produce content 958 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,160 and post it. So have that have a timeline 959 00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:41,520 with your deliverables. Also is it would be my third 960 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,480 thing. Absolutely, absolutely. 961 00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:45,800 And I, I think, I mean, we could sit here and moan about some of 962 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,000 the mistakes brands have made for for hours. 963 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:50,760 But yeah, I'm going to wrap it up there just because we, we 964 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,360 always end up like you and I, Brett, we talk so fast and we 965 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:54,720 always end up getting so much in. 966 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:56,920 And yeah, I really appreciate your time as always. 967 00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,120 I've, I've taken so many notes. I hope you guys at home have 968 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,200 really enjoyed this. And and Brett, we mentioned 969 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,760 earlier about their landing page and subsequent to that, if 970 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,360 someone's like Brett, all of that's got, I've just got one 971 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,480 question or one small problem, you're always happy to help out 972 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:10,960 in you. What's your e-mail address if 973 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,680 people want to reach straight out to you and have a chat? 974 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,440 For everything, Yeah. So it's Brett, Brett at 975 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,040 Affluencer AFLUENCE, r.com. You'll also see we have live 976 00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,360 chat in the lower right on our website. 977 00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,760 You can always ask for me the the default. 978 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,480 We actually have a nice little AI bot that'll handle your 979 00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:31,200 initial questions and it does a nice job pulling the research 980 00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:32,880 articles. Did this help? 981 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:36,120 Yes, no, you can always say, hey, give me Brett and then 982 00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,960 that'll pass that that'll pass the chat to me if I'm not there 983 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,720 in real time. Again, it's just like emailing. 984 00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,920 So that'll go to my inbox and then when I reply, it'll hit 985 00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:45,880 your inbox. So that's another way to do it. 986 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,040 You can get on our site. You can be on the on the slash 987 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:52,440 WWS landing page winning with Shopify landing page and get a 988 00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:53,960 hold of me there as well. Amazing. 989 00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:55,160 Well, it Brett, thank you so much. 990 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:56,880 I really appreciate your time, been great to have you and thank 991 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,680 you for sharing so many great insights as well. 992 00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,320 Yeah. Thank you, Nick. 993 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:00,400 Yeah, always fun chatting with you. 994 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:01,960 Amazing. And for everyone listening at 995 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,480 home, we will be back again next week. 996 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:04,480 I hope you enjoyed today's episode. 997 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,720 If you haven't already, hit the subscribe button, leave us a 998 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:08,320 review and go and check out the growth hub. 999 00:45:08,320 --> 00:45:10,480 The growth Hub is growing itself and it's all about helping you 1000 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:12,840 guys grow. It's for Shopify or e-commerce 1001 00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:14,320 brands only, but mostly Shopify brands. 1002 00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:16,160 So yeah, go and go and fill out the form. 1003 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,200 I'll add you to the waiting list and we'll let you in as soon as 1004 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:19,680 we're ready. But yeah, appreciate you 1005 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:21,200 listening today and we're back again next week. 1006 00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,000 Thanks for tuning in.