1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,040 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast, Well, can 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:06,440 anyone build and launch an app? Merchants are starting to use 3 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:08,119 that as a qualifier for choosing apps. 4 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,240 And like a lot of app stores or even physical stores, what we 5 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,840 want to provide is some quality filter that you can that 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:18,240 merchants can use. The thing I love is it's so 7 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:20,400 fast. And that's what leads to the 8 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,080 great experience I. Don't want to have the 9 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,360 experience we had with the redirects app we used. 10 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:28,040 Caused carnage, ruin, ruined my day and potentially threaten a 11 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,640 business at the same time. Hello and welcome to another 12 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:34,960 episode, the winning Shop 5 podcast. 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,600 If it's your first time tuning in, my name's Nick. 14 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,440 It's a pleasure to have you listening to the pinkest, 15 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,920 brightest podcast you have ever seen. 16 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:43,360 If you've been tuning in for a while, then welcome back. 17 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,120 At the time of this going out, I will be absolutely knackered 18 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,640 because we would have just been at e-commerce Expo here in 19 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,800 London, which our agency are exhibiting at. 20 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:53,080 If you didn't get a chance to catch us, but you did pop along 21 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,080 to the show and you do want to talk, check out our website spec 22 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,800 dot digital is the web address. So come and reach out. 23 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:59,320 We can have a conversation about SEOPB. 24 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,360 We also had a challenge on our stand as well. 25 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,640 Two minutes to find two big things that we can change in 26 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,480 your SEO or PPC strategy. And we had two minutes to do 27 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:09,120 that and we're welcome to have you guys do that over video if 28 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,440 you want as well. My team were very, very paranoid 29 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:13,360 about how we were going to do so many of these things at the 30 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,800 show. So I'll probably share in next 31 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:18,800 week or the week week after this episode how all of that went. 32 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,120 So we'll see what goes on. Anyway, if one guest isn't cool 33 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:25,880 enough, I've got 2 today and I'm very, very excited to introduce 34 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,040 both of them. I'm going to come across to you 35 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,760 first, Jonathan Zaza of who is Director of Product at Shopify. 36 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,040 Jonathan, welcome to the show. How are you? 37 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:36,840 Thanks so much for having me, I'm doing really well. 38 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:39,840 Amazing. And if anyone's like, OK, 39 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,240 director of product, I've heard of Shopify and we were joking 40 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:43,960 before. If you've not heard of Shopify, 41 00:01:43,960 --> 00:01:45,680 wrong. Podcasts change show 42 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:48,040 immediately. But if people don't know what 43 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:51,720 director of product is, tell us a bit about your role and what a 44 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,920 day in your life looks like, the kind of things you're dealing 45 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:55,720 with, things you're talking about and people you're working 46 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,160 with in Shopify. Yeah. 47 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,680 So not to bore you too much, but a product manager is it, it's 48 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,960 sort of a nascent profession, but it's also no one product 49 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,720 manager does the same thing at any other company and maybe even 50 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,000 within the company. But a product manager 51 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,600 effectively makes decisions on what to build. 52 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:17,200 So there's so many, many decisions that are made on 53 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,640 software reuse and other products, physical products in 54 00:02:20,640 --> 00:02:22,720 the world. Product managers really decide 55 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,640 on like, hey, what, where should we invest? 56 00:02:24,640 --> 00:02:25,760 What problems should we go solve? 57 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,640 And then even within those problems, what kinds of 58 00:02:28,640 --> 00:02:32,120 decisions need to be made? Amazing. 59 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,560 And I mean with Shopify as an organization and we'll talk 60 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,640 about some bit more as we go through and specifically about 61 00:02:36,640 --> 00:02:39,880 apps today and built for Shopify, but there must be so 62 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:41,520 many bits of tech you come across all day. 63 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,880 So I'm very excited to hear more about the direction you guys are 64 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,600 trying to go in and why some apps get endorsed, why some 65 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:49,840 don't. There's going to be some really 66 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:51,920 cool nuances today. And and the first question by 67 00:02:51,920 --> 00:02:54,120 the way, I'm going to ask guys if you've logged in and gone 68 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,400 well, I don't develop apps. The first question I am going to 69 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,360 ask Jonathan shortly is like, well, why should merchants care 70 00:02:58,360 --> 00:02:59,600 about this? So we're going to talk about 71 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,120 that in a second, but bringing that across then you one of the 72 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,800 built for Shopify apps, Obviously Saguno, one of our 73 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:06,760 favorite partners. You've been involved for a huge 74 00:03:06,760 --> 00:03:09,600 amount of time. But Chris, Chris, welcome to the 75 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:11,280 show. I we're trying to pronounce your 76 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,720 surname because I've known you for so long and I just jokingly 77 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,240 asked you for hit record. Chris, how do you pronounce your 78 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:17,360 surname? And you want to tell people 79 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,920 about Shopify, It's not Saguno as well. 80 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,200 If they've not come across Saguno or listen to one of our 81 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,720 episodes. But firstly, welcome. 82 00:03:23,720 --> 00:03:24,280 Back. Yeah. 83 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:26,520 Good to see you, Nick. Jonathan, good to see you as 84 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:28,360 well. Thanks for having me on here. 85 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:34,400 It's Chris Geiss from Saguno. And yeah, we've, we've been in 86 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,520 the Shopify space for over 8 years And you know, we have a, 87 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,760 a, a few kind of primary products, one being kind of a 88 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,840 marketing suite. So like e-mail marketing, 89 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:45,880 product reviews, pop ups and forms. 90 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:50,720 Then we have a bulk discount code generator that also has a 91 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,200 lot of reporting and, and good things for attribution. 92 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,920 And then we have an integration with Canva and Shopify that's, 93 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,120 that's really cool as well. So yeah, we, we love building 94 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,920 for Shopify and, and Jonathan's a incredible partner and, and so 95 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,880 yeah, happy to be here and chat through the importance of, of 96 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,280 built for Shopify and, and why we've decided to go all in on, 97 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:14,040 on Shopify from day one. Amazing. 98 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,200 And I don't want to say too much because I want to hear it from 99 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:17,440 you, Jonathan, about what it means. 100 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,720 But some of the points you've just raised there, Chris, I 101 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:20,920 think are really relevant to talk about. 102 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,680 I think as we say, why merchants should care and why it's 103 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,760 important to merchants, but also the fact that you guys have, 104 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,560 we'll talk about a bit more as we go through why you guys have 105 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,120 doubled down in the Shopify space as opposed to being, and I 106 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:35,280 won't name any names because you're a sponsor of ours and 107 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,880 you're sitting in front of me. But other e-mail platforms are 108 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,600 the discount bulk apps that you could be using in Shopify. 109 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,760 They're not built it for Shopify. 110 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:44,520 And we're going to talk a bit about what that means and some 111 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,040 of the restrictions that might actually create. 112 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,320 But Jonathan, I've mentioned the question twice now. 113 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,720 Tell us, why should merchants care about the built for Shopify 114 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:52,240 badge and what does it really mean? 115 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,080 Yeah. So Build for Shopify is the gold 116 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,640 standard for app quality. And so apps that are certified 117 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,600 with Build for Shopify are meeting Shopify's highest 118 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,560 standards. So the App Store has become has 119 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:09,400 grown a lot and like a lot of app stores or even physical 120 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,920 stores, what we want to provide is some quality filter that you 121 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,520 can that merchants can use when they're going there to 122 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:20,400 understand is this, this is verified, is this, is this a 123 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,120 trusted seller? Is, you know, any of those sort 124 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,880 of analogies that exist in the real the world? 125 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,600 They exist on the App Store now. And so we really broke it down 126 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,120 into 3 categories. So in order to get a BFS badge, 127 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:37,760 an app has to meet three primary categories of Excellence, 128 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:40,440 performance, design and Integration. 129 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,920 Amazing. And so when someone's applying 130 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,760 to become a built for Shopify app, then you mentioned about 131 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:51,080 the certification. Is it the case at the moment? 132 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:52,840 And again, I think this is really useful for merchants to 133 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:56,720 understand anyone, can anyone build and launch an app? 134 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,320 And this is therefore a differentiator that we, Shopify 135 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,280 actually approved to this app now that we are endorsing it. 136 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:04,600 You should be, if you're looking at apps, you should consider 137 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,640 this one. But there's still a free open 138 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,160 marketplace. Is that how it works for non BFS 139 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:10,280 apps? Yeah. 140 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:13,080 So build for Shopify is an opt in program. 141 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,720 So like you said, anyone in the universe can build an app and 142 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,000 then anyone in that in that universe of the app building can 143 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,920 also apply to be built for Shopify. 144 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,320 In order to be built for Shopify, though, they'll go 145 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,720 through a separate application that'll scrutinize their 146 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:30,080 application for performance design and integration. 147 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,040 And it's not a one time thing. So be mindful that our reviewers 148 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,280 are constantly reviewing and constantly analyzing the apps to 149 00:06:38,280 --> 00:06:40,320 make sure they're still conforming the guidelines so 150 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:43,080 that when merchants go to the App Store and they see that 151 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,120 badge, they know that it's still meeting that quality bar. 152 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:48,800 Amazing. And I like that there's that 153 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,200 ongoing process as well because I mean, as an agency, we've been 154 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,400 opted into some programs before and five years go by and it's 155 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,600 like, are we still part of that? Like we don't actually work on 156 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,320 that anymore. We don't there's so many updates 157 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,160 and we're not actually involved. See, if I come across to you 158 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,240 now, Chris, on this as well, what have, what have some of the 159 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,640 hoops been that you've had to jump through to ensure that 160 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,520 you're meeting those standards? But also, what are some of the 161 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,160 benefits that you found by meeting those standards or 162 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:15,960 looking at your processes in the tech that's actually being used 163 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,480 behind the Saguno platform? Yeah, a lot there. 164 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:24,840 So you know, we we were essentially kind of like when we 165 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,680 started building for Shopify, we decided to build for Shopify. 166 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,240 And to us, that meant being embedded from day one using 167 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,440 Polaris from day one, which is their user interface library so 168 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,080 that your app can look like Shopify. 169 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:44,240 And, and so that was kind of our differentiation was to say, Hey, 170 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,000 we want to be so close to the commerce platform that we 171 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,240 actually want to be inside of it and just seamlessly integrated 172 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,360 everywhere. So when you know, the built for 173 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:57,000 Shopify program came out, it was a natural thing for us to kind 174 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,600 of, you know, go through and double down on and. 175 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,560 And so yes, there is a process to to go through. 176 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:08,480 Luckily we didn't have to do kind of like a rewrite of the 177 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,360 interface because we were already using Polaris, but that 178 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,520 is a big step that some partners have to do. 179 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:19,560 And so, yeah, it was performance related things, making sure our 180 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:25,600 app was as snappy as possible. Some UI changes, nothing too 181 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,280 major for us, luckily. But but yes, there is also a, a 182 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:32,360 continual review process. We get, you know, pinged every 183 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,080 so often with little things that they think we need to, to 184 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,280 change. And then there's a, you know, 185 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,799 larger kind of annual process that that we just recently went 186 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:42,000 through with, with one of the apps. 187 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:48,400 And so, yeah, Shopify is there. It's not just like a, it's not 188 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:50,320 just a badge, like there's a lot behind it. 189 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,760 And, and, and they're really, you know, ensuring that badge 190 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,480 means something. It has been helpful for the app 191 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,360 in general too, cuz I think merchants are starting to use 192 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:05,200 that as a qualifier for choosing apps. 193 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,320 There's like a little filter. Sorry, go ahead. 194 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:11,080 No, no, it's exactly and we're going to talk about that in a 195 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:12,720 minute actually as to what some of those filters are. 196 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,400 But sorry, you were going to tell us some of the features. 197 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,520 I mean, yeah, please carry on because I think there's some 198 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:18,640 really important bits in here actually for merchants to go. 199 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:20,840 What is the difference? How do I know when I'm looking 200 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,080 at like a more of a certified trusted app versus this is just 201 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:25,880 an app? Yeah, right. 202 00:09:25,880 --> 00:09:28,840 In the App Store, like there's a built for Shopify button that 203 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,880 you can Click to filter the list of apps down to just ones that 204 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,440 are built for Shopify. So that's a very helpful thing 205 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,560 to do as you're as you're looking for for apps. 206 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,960 But yeah, we hear from merchants that they're starting to use 207 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:43,440 that as a reason for choosing apps and, and, and yeah, it's 208 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:46,880 been, it's been great. Hey guys, I just want to take a 209 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,120 moment aside from today's episode to introduce one of our 210 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,560 amazing sponsors, Kavella. 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That code again winning back to 223 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,720 the episode. Amazing. 224 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,040 And I mean, from our perspective as an agency, like we work 225 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:35,960 across so many different platforms, like we work on 226 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,960 Magento, WordPress, we can build our own apps and just sort of 227 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,000 plug them in. We can grab an app knowing 228 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:42,480 nothing about it. It looks like it's going to 229 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,760 solve a problem. And then six months later the 230 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:47,120 app just disappears. I mean, that has happened once 231 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:48,480 it's posting Shopify apps as well. 232 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,400 And where the we woke up 1 morning and the redirect servers 233 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,800 disappeared. They won't name names. 234 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:54,840 I mean, it would point this anyway because the app doesn't 235 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,800 exist anymore. But yeah, we suddenly had 236 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,240 150,000 redirects, having done a quite a large hybris to Shopify 237 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,960 plus migration suddenly disappeared and it landed on my 238 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,080 desk and it was like a, can you just clear my diary today, guys? 239 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,520 Like I'm in a spreadsheet, a big spreadsheet. 240 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,720 But I think having that certification and as you say, 241 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,760 Chris, having Shopify themselves, your team, Jonathan 242 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,840 actually reaching out and saying, hey, we think you should 243 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,000 change this. That extra pair of eyes must be 244 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,360 so powerful. But with the built for Shopify 245 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,920 badge, does the app have to be exclusive to Shopify or can it 246 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,840 be a platform that's or an app that's being used across lots of 247 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:32,360 different sites like some platforms just Shopify now 248 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,480 endorsed that? Yeah. 249 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,400 So there's nothing that says it has to be exclusive. 250 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,560 I'm sure there's plenty of apps that will support other commerce 251 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:45,160 platforms. The badge is really just meeting 252 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:50,040 our quality standards. Which is good because certainly 253 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,920 when we look at like some of the competitors to Saguno, for 254 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,920 example, some of them have the badge, but we know they're not 255 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,400 just completely like like like you guys are at Chris at Saguno. 256 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:02,040 It's built for Shopify. So actually when you're using 257 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,320 it, it's like everything we've done is Shopify focused rather 258 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,000 than we've built a really cool e-mail platform and now we're 259 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,360 trying to get it to work with Shopify. 260 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:10,760 And we've eventually got the badge. 261 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,120 Maybe we've created a second version of the app that works 262 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,000 within Shopify or something. But again, that that integration 263 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,200 piece, I've seen it so many times over the years where 264 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,840 trying to integrate anything with anything, there are things 265 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,120 that can go wrong. So having something like Saguna 266 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:25,640 that's much more native within Shopify, obviously a massive, 267 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,040 massive benefit for that. But yeah, good, good to know. 268 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:31,200 I think that actually some of the apps people use if they're 269 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,480 moving to Shopify could still use those in the in the Shopify 270 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,280 space. But I mean, just coming across 271 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:39,320 to to you, Jonathan, I know we've mentioned a few bits on 272 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,280 this already, but are there any other problem, problems that 273 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,640 Shopify were looking to solve by launching the built for Shopify? 274 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,920 Because it must be more than just a we like this one and we 275 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:49,880 don't like this one. You know what are some of the 276 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:51,600 other problems you guys were trying to solve that merchants 277 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,320 should consider? Yeah. 278 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:56,680 So we know that like, you know, at Shopify, we're always trying 279 00:12:56,680 --> 00:13:00,800 to solve problems for merchants. And a common problem for 280 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,600 merchants, whether or not they're starting out or they're 281 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,720 scaling massively and like facing new challenges is knowing 282 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:10,360 which apps to install. And so that's why we built the 283 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,080 program. We want merchants to feel 284 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,080 confident in choosing and installing apps without 285 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,560 stressing about if it's going to be slow or hard to use, right, 286 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:22,120 Really basic things. And, and so that's really the 287 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:26,720 purpose of this is to solve that merchant problem while they're 288 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:29,320 facing new challenges, whether that's starting a new business 289 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,680 or scaling into new areas. And so like every merchant's 290 00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:36,400 going to face that problem. Absolutely. 291 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,880 And I always say the tech's only as good as the person wielding 292 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,360 it as well. If it was like a tool, which 293 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:43,800 we've got some clients that say, well, we've got the best tech 294 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:44,920 there is. And we look at it, it's like 295 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:48,160 your page speed's terrible. You're only using one out of 50 296 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,480 features on this one. So why did you choose that app? 297 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:53,680 And it's, we work in SEO, so page speed's really important, 298 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,560 which Shopify's made that. I don't know if you were 299 00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,520 involved in this and a complete tangent, but the Shopify page 300 00:13:58,520 --> 00:14:01,680 speed that you can see within Shopify has been really useful. 301 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,520 Just we can obviously dig deeper with some of the more insightful 302 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,120 tools we've got, but it's really nice just to get a very quick 303 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:08,720 steer. I think for merchants, which 304 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:11,320 relates to apps massively because it tends to be app 305 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:14,000 bulking and big images, which Shopify deals with most of the 306 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,720 images that app bulking, I call it on site where you're putting 307 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:19,160 too many apps on and overloading it. 308 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:21,280 It's all too common in Shopify, isn't it? 309 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,440 So I understand why you guys have launched that dashboard, 310 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:25,520 but you must be getting some really good feedback from brands 311 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,200 about how important it is just to see that page speed, 312 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,240 especially for the early stage, not wanting to hire someone like 313 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,080 us to do a bit of a deeper dive into it. 314 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:35,520 Yeah. So at Jump, we talk about 315 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,680 performance a lot and we care deeply about it. 316 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,040 We're sort of like for both buyers as well as merchants. 317 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:45,040 And so yeah, like apps can't slow down your store, it's just 318 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:47,360 sort of period, right. And that's why it's a big part 319 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,080 of the built for shop by standards. 320 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:54,360 And we also know that merchants are doing a lot of complex tax 321 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:56,440 everyday. They're sort of like trying to 322 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,880 succeed at, at running a business. 323 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:02,320 They, they shouldn't have to worry that like the Shopify 324 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,560 admin is slow, right? Like that's just, that's just 325 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,680 going to like make their lives miserable and they're going to 326 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:08,960 experience that multiple times throughout the day. 327 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:13,040 And so that's why we we set up pretty high standards for apps 328 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,640 to conform to the same standards that we we ourselves live up to, 329 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,200 which is, hey, let's make this product really fast. 330 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:23,200 Yeah. And I'm just, I'm half writing a 331 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,720 note, but it's probably easy if I just ask you the question and 332 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,920 try and record it. But would you guys at Shopify, 333 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,040 if something was going badly, as in an app wasn't performing well 334 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,920 and you were getting complaints, how strict does Shopify start to 335 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:40,080 get with actually removing or maybe not even removing? 336 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,760 Is there anything you guys do to say this is not an app we longer 337 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:47,320 endorse beyond just removing the bill for Shopify badge is do you 338 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:49,720 guys actually say this is we believe is now a harmful app or 339 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:51,560 this app is not just simply not working? 340 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,680 Is there an approval process to get an app submitted and you 341 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,600 guys would remove something if it wasn't working well? 342 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:58,400 Yeah. So separate to build for 343 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,120 Shopify, just to even be in the store, there's a set of App 344 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,040 Store requirements and those are those are separate, you know, 345 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:10,160 but somewhat related. Yeah, there there there is sort 346 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:12,880 of an App Store requirement that has to be functional. 347 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,600 So if you know an app is not returning anything, that's not 348 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,160 quite functional so. Yeah, yeah. 349 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,320 Which which makes sense that I think so many brands we talked 350 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,000 to that are moving to Shopify or thinking about it, one of the 351 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:26,680 big challenges they're like, we won't be able to do half the 352 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:29,240 things we can do already. And sometimes I say, well, look, 353 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,240 it's a double edged sword because actually it means you 354 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,840 also can't break it that easily. Or if something's harmful, 355 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:37,520 Shopify might intervene and remove it for you or, or, or 356 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,280 tell you to take action and give you a time limit. 357 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,800 So actually if there is something damaging on your site 358 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,520 before it kills your conversion rate, your customer reputation, 359 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,400 your SEO, actually we can start to deal with that. 360 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,920 But going from that end of the scale then to the other end 361 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:53,680 built for Shopify brands, you've, you guys actually give 362 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:56,960 out awards to brands, don't you? And I'm understand Chris, you 363 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:59,000 guys have won one of these awards at Saguino. 364 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,720 Talk us through what that means and how hard you guys have had 365 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:05,400 to work to actually win that award and how important it is to 366 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,200 have that recognition beyond just the Build for Shopify 367 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:14,319 badge. I mean, that was, yeah, winning 368 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:19,280 the build award for for best app in 2024 was kind of a surreal 369 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,960 experience and, and something that we're incredibly honored 370 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,119 and grateful for. You know, we've, like I said, 371 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:30,200 we've been completely dedicated to Shopify for, for over 8 years 372 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,240 now. And and so for that, for Shopify 373 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,920 to recognize that that effort was it meant the world to us. 374 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:41,440 And and so, you know, my Co founder got to go up on stage 375 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,880 and accept that award and take a fun selfie with Harley and, and 376 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,880 it was just really cool and meant so much to the team. 377 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:52,440 So just incredibly thankful for for that. 378 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,600 And I think it's so good to have recognition, especially when you 379 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,640 guys have doubled down so much over. 380 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,360 I mean, we've worked with you for quite a few years now, Chris 381 00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:03,440 and and Brian and the team at Saguno said it's great. 382 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,640 I think you guys have got that recognition actually for how 383 00:18:05,640 --> 00:18:08,160 hard you work to improve the lives of merchants. 384 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,560 And, and just just to say from my point of view as well, for 385 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,320 everyone listening, whenever I've turned to Chris or any of 386 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,480 the team at Saguno and said, Hey, could it do this? 387 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,640 They've never said no. They've either come back with a 388 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,040 here's why we don't want it to do that because I do have some 389 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:22,520 wacky ideas from time to time, but also some of the things 390 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,160 developed if if you're working with Saguno or you're using 391 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,640 another platform and feeling like it's a very faceless, just 392 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,720 as a set of settings in front of me to run my e-mail or bulk 393 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:32,440 discounts or camera integrations, things like 394 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:34,360 whatever. The thing is actually, if you 395 00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:36,480 want to have a conversation, it's one reason we introduced 396 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,880 Saguno so much. So I, I was delighted to see 397 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,840 that you guys won that award back at Christmas. 398 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,760 And I think it's a really good recognition of how hard you work 399 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,360 and how you've really doubled down on your niche audience 400 00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:49,560 where I think a lot of e-mail providers across the board have 401 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,760 actually gone. Let's just get as many customers 402 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,320 as possible where you guys have actually gone there. 403 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,160 There's a specific set of people we really want to help with 404 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,760 this, but talking about those merchants, Chris or Jonathan, I 405 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,040 don't know if which one of you guys wants to go first or either 406 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:04,920 of you guys, but are there any particular merchants that really 407 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,320 stick with you? Using built for Shopify apps 408 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,240 made a meaningful difference to how they were trying to run 409 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:11,240 their business. And, and most importantly, I 410 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,280 always like to bring it back to revenue, something that actually 411 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,520 helped the the store and the merchants revenue increase. 412 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:17,480 I don't know who which one of you guys wants to go first on 413 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,000 this. I don't know if. 414 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,320 I have any. Specific merchant, yeah, I don't 415 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:26,800 know if I have any specific merchant story, but like I 416 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,720 talked to about app developers often and I love it when they 417 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,560 come to me and say, wow, like, you know, even though it was 418 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,280 hard, maybe there's a bunch of effort to get into built for 419 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:39,960 Shopify. What they discovered is that 420 00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,880 they've, they've seen that merchants are now consistently 421 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,400 praising their apps now. And both both like qualitatively 422 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,000 and quantitatively, they're, they're ratings have gone up. 423 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,280 They've, they're now getting more and more growth for 424 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:56,920 themselves. And, and it seems like we're, 425 00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,160 we're making the right match, right? 426 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,480 We're making the right matchmaking experience happen. 427 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,400 And so I just, I love hearing those stories, and those are the 428 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:07,600 stories I hear quite often. Yeah. 429 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,560 I mean, aside from like our incredible customer support, the 430 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:14,480 number one thing that people mention in our app reviews is 431 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,520 the integration with Shopify. And so it, it is meaningful to 432 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:21,840 folks. It's, it greatly reduces your 433 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:24,400 learning curve when you're trying a new tool because it 434 00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,600 works and looks like Shopify. And, and they just love that 435 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,440 experience getting to stay inside of, of their Shopify 436 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:35,080 admin, not having to worry about, you know, duplicating 437 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,520 data in different systems and all that sort of stuff. 438 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,360 So yeah, we've definitely heard it from merchants through 439 00:20:42,360 --> 00:20:45,160 reviews, through anecdotally, you know, and, and support 440 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,120 conversations. We've also seen, you know, apps 441 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:54,400 come, you know, potentially leave go for, they hired an 442 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,840 agency. The agency pulled them off to 443 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,720 another platform that they worked with. 444 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:04,600 They ended up firing the agency and then came back to shop or 445 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:08,320 came back to Seguno. And, and so that, that ease of 446 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:13,480 use that being built for Shopify provides, it enables merchants 447 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,400 to do more with less. And, and so they're actually 448 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:21,160 able to take advantage of the functionality that apps provide 449 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,920 and, and do more with it. And, and so we've, we've seen 450 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:28,320 that a number of times that people are, are choosing that 451 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:31,640 because it, it gives them more control and they feel like they 452 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,960 can do more with it. And one thing I love about 453 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,880 Saguna as well, just to kind of carry on from what you've said, 454 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,000 Jonathan, about people praising the apps. 455 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:42,480 And also I think I love your response as well, Chris, with 456 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,440 like it's the integration so important. 457 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,760 Some of the feedback we've had with our clients where we've 458 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,360 jumped on a call with Saguno and said, right, these guys, they're 459 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,600 using this platform or they're on somewhere on Saguno already. 460 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,040 We need to be using it more like we need to work out 461 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:57,520 segmentations, audiences using customer data. 462 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:01,320 The way the pop ups work. The thing I love is it's so fast 463 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,040 on page speeds because the pop ups are already built within 464 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,120 Shopify rather than you've done some JavaScript into your theme 465 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:10,880 to get something to fire to offer a discount on a initial 466 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,360 purchase or sign up to our newsletter for XYZ. 467 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,640 Because it's so integrated, when somebody signs up, they're now 468 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,880 in your Shopify customers area. They're not in some CRM or ERP 469 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,000 system elsewhere. They might go there later, but 470 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,520 they're they're in Shopify, which means they're also in 471 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,200 Saguno. And then you can automatically 472 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,360 have the automations and stuff flowing through. 473 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:30,600 We've had clients where automations through a third 474 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:35,280 party non Shopify native app is working completely independently 475 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:36,880 and it stops working for a week or two. 476 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,320 And it's only when somebody looked at a dashboard that had 477 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,440 e-mail revenue coming in from GA four that really noticed 478 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:43,520 something was actually wrong here. 479 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,240 Like why are the numbers dropping whereas Saguno's built 480 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:47,720 into it? So you just don't see that 481 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,840 happen because of that integration. 482 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,400 So I think that I, I, I know it's not completely native to 483 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,040 Shopify. It's still an app on its own 484 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,760 server that plugs in, but I call it native because it looks like 485 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,080 that when you're actually in the interface. 486 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:00,960 You don't have to leave Shopify to do anything. 487 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,720 Are there any specific features I've missed there, Chris, that 488 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,200 you also think are important? But that's what our clients are 489 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:08,880 saying is so important. I mean, just speaking more 490 00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:11,400 broadly about the, the BFS program, right? 491 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:15,160 Like I think like Jonathan mentioned, there's performance, 492 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,840 there's design and then integration. 493 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:23,040 And so the integration is an area that I think is often 494 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:27,000 overlooked and it's something that Shopify is pushing even 495 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,080 more and putting more requirements there, especially 496 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,520 for different categories of apps. 497 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:36,120 And that's what leads to the great experience when you have 498 00:23:36,360 --> 00:23:40,120 data in the right places that enables merchants to leverage in 499 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:44,920 segments or discounting or, you know, storefront things, all 500 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,560 that, all that type of stuff, it matters. 501 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,520 And, and so even data portability you could think 502 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,680 about. So as you're using one app and 503 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,240 then you decide to switch it out for another, if you have the 504 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,960 data stored properly in Shopify, you don't have to go through a 505 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:02,280 whole migration process. It's easier to kind of plug and 506 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,560 play these things. And so I, I just love how 507 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:10,920 Shopify is, is just putting forth the right way to do things 508 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:16,200 and starting to incentivize apps to, to go after that because it 509 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,320 makes a better experience for, for everyone. 510 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600 Do you ever find that in your warehouse you have dead stock, 511 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,560 You can't sell it, no one wants to buy it, and you can't get a 512 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,400 refund on it. Or alternatively, you're missing 513 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,280 inventory in your warehouse that you need, you've got sales 514 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,040 coming in and you're low on stock and you haven't ordered 515 00:24:31,120 --> 00:24:33,280 more stock. In time, all these things hit 516 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,400 profit. And I've been there. 517 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,040 I've run my own Shopify store and had exactly that problem. 518 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:39,200 We've partnered up with Inventory Planner who have the 519 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,760 most incredible app to help you manage that and forecast exactly 520 00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,080 what products, what skews even down to what colour of product 521 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,200 you need to order in advance to make sure stock levels remain 522 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,920 consistent throughout. They're also running a seven day 523 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,000 boot camp and if you want to go and sign up to that, it's 7 524 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,760 emails every seven days and it takes the same amount of time as 525 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,320 your morning coffee. And in seven days, like me, you 526 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,120 can become an inventory management pro. 527 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,200 Both links are in the description. 528 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,120 Enjoy. Absolutely. 529 00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:08,960 And as someone who's in Shopify a lot working with clients, 530 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,560 making changes in my team are it's when you've got something 531 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,320 in there, it's so much easier across the board just to go, 532 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,840 let's just open the app within the Shopify interface. 533 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,600 It's already plugged into my theme. 534 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,400 I can customize things quickly. And one of our clients, they, 535 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,360 they moved from Hybris and the site would cost them like 2 and 536 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:26,360 a half, $1,000,000. And they moved from Hybris to 537 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:29,120 Shopify. It was $110,000 build on 538 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:30,840 Shopify. And that included all the 539 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:33,840 integrations. And when we stripped back the 540 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:36,320 brief under all the different layers of the onion, right in 541 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,040 the middle was the marketing team wants to click new page and 542 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,840 add some content hybrid. It was so complicated. 543 00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:45,240 And then I mean, that was back in 2021. 544 00:25:45,240 --> 00:25:47,320 I think we did that, that project and selling when live in 545 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:49,120 2021. And so I just think having that 546 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,000 ease ability through there, the App Store. 547 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,520 But I, it's really good to have you on Jonathan, actually to 548 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:54,960 talk about. There's so much more going on 549 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:57,840 behind the scenes than just good app, bad app and it's just 550 00:25:57,960 --> 00:25:59,640 random voting system actually so much behind it. 551 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,320 Those three points think are really key, but where is it 552 00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:03,640 going? Like where's the built for 553 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,240 Shopify going at the moment? What are you guys focused on, 554 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:07,920 the principles starting to evolve? 555 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,960 Are you changing some of the features in there like tell us 556 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:11,280 what merchants should be looking out for? 557 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,200 And also anything exciting? We love exclusives on here. 558 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,560 But yeah, anything exciting that you are allowed to tell us? 559 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,680 Yeah. So, I mean, I won't say anything 560 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,080 specifically, but I will say that Shopify evolves. 561 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,880 And as Shopify evolves, we want to give tools to developers so 562 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,160 that merchants have that experience both in the sort of 563 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,280 core Shopify experience as well as their apps. 564 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,960 And so we'll continue to always do that. 565 00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,480 When I see the big shift that I see happening, which is which is 566 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,440 nice, is that I see app developers are now building 567 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,920 built for Shopify first. They're not thinking of it as an 568 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,880 afterthought of like, OK, I launched the thing, now I need 569 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,240 to go do this. This like other now large task. 570 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,960 They're thinking about it from the start, which is wonderful, 571 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,400 which means what what's that's going to mean is that quality is 572 00:26:57,400 --> 00:26:59,560 going to become baseline, not the exception. 573 00:27:01,120 --> 00:27:03,960 The one thing I will say and give a little preview to is that 574 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,120 we are going to be providing some app recommendations through 575 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:12,040 Sidekick, which is Shopify's AI powered assistant. 576 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,040 Right now it doesn't do a good job of that. 577 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,720 Well, when we do that, of course, what we want to do is 578 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:19,920 provide those recommendations with both for Shopify in mind. 579 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,040 Amazing. And just, if anyone's never 580 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,800 listened to my British Tuesday tea break talks, I call it 581 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,280 British because it's tea. And the guys in the US find that 582 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,000 hilarious. We love tea here. 583 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,480 We drink so much of it. I drink tea, but when, Yeah, I 584 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:33,560 mean, it's good. It's good. 585 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,040 We so. But on the Tuesday episodes, so 586 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,000 I often look at the Shopify change log and things coming out 587 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:41,600 and we talk a lot about sidekick. 588 00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,280 Then when I talk to merchants and talk to clients of ours and 589 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:47,400 say, hey, you've used the sidekick, they're like, oh, I 590 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,000 know what it is. I haven't really used it yet. 591 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:51,960 Is there anything else, Jonathan, you can tell us beyond 592 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,800 just me trying to fix little problems we're dealing with as 593 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,360 an agency working with merch? Is there, is there any, any 594 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,400 specific things that people should be using it for that or 595 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,120 or trends you're seeing merchants actually start to 596 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:04,640 evolve it for and beyond. And I love the idea of it 597 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,160 recommending apps. That sounds brilliant. 598 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:07,960 Yeah. I mean, I think it's I think 599 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,840 this experience like the sidekick experience, just like a 600 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,880 lot of AI experiences in our lives are are massively 601 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,800 evolving. And so the way that we think 602 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,800 about sidekick is it's sort of like it is your sort of Co 603 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:20,840 founder, right. You want to ask it questions and 604 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,000 it should be able to answer them quickly or or quickly take you 605 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,160 to to that experience so that you don't have to, you know, you 606 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,040 know, try to figure out where it is in the admin and where where 607 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,160 I need to make these changes. And so more and more of these 608 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,840 use cases we think will be supported by these AI powered 609 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,160 assistant. Amazing, amazing. 610 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,400 And sticking with the future as well, talking about what's 611 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,400 coming up. I'm going to come to you first, 612 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,200 Chris, and then and then back to you on the same question as 613 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,640 well, Jonathan, to to sort of round off today's episode, 614 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,760 Chris, if you were a merchant and you were looking for apps 615 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,080 and specifically going, I don't want to have the experience we 616 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,440 had with the redirects app we use that just disappeared 617 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,920 overnight, caused carnage, ruined, ruined my day and 618 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:03,600 potentially threaten a business at the same time. 619 00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:07,080 How do you what advice would you give us if you were the merchant 620 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:09,000 you're looking to future proof your business with the right 621 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:10,240 apps? What are some of the things 622 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,040 beyond just built for built for Shopify badge? 623 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:14,640 What are some of the things you're looking for, the way you 624 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,800 would go about that searching mission? 625 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:22,920 Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, I think obviously as 626 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,240 we're talking about it today, I think built for Shopify is a 627 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,840 great lens to look through. The App Store reviews are 628 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:32,400 obviously super important. You know how long someone's been 629 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,440 around that type of stuff. Can, you know, potentially avoid 630 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:41,240 the the thing you ran into. But I think the, the important 631 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,960 thing is to think about, there is no way to future proof like 632 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:50,040 your, your choice of apps. You want to focus on finding 633 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,880 what's the right fit for the stage of business that I'm in. 634 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:56,640 When you, when you see, you know, all the big brands use 635 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,880 this app and I want to use that so I never have to change it as 636 00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:02,640 my business scales. I think that's one of the, the 637 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,680 pitfalls that most merchants fall into. 638 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,000 And it's, it's one that actually hurts your business and slows 639 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,160 you down because you're dealing with complexity that you're not 640 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,880 ready to, to handle. So by choosing apps that sort of 641 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:20,440 meet you where you are, which is likely inside your Shopify admin 642 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:25,960 both there and as a business, I think that's the the biggest 643 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,160 thing to think through as your as your choosing apps. 644 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,280 And if I could just respond to that quickly with a real world 645 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:35,680 example in my inbox right now, one of our clients are using, 646 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,440 it's not quite a custom build, but it's where a small 647 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,840 organization, a small agency have built their own e-commerce 648 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,480 system. And the problem is that every 649 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:48,200 time the ERP in the warehouse system updates and every client 650 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,120 has a different ERP, which if if you're really small, you're 651 00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,480 like, what is this ERP? It basically is a list of all 652 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,320 your products. It's your stock level in the 653 00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:57,880 warehouse. And it pumps that feed out to 654 00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:59,800 like Shopify and lots of other places or your website. 655 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,120 So they're on a custom, custom built platforms, an e-commerce 656 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,640 platform. And every time the ERP updates, 657 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,000 they have to pay thousands of pounds to then have the web 658 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,280 store updates so it can still display the correct product, 659 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,400 stock information, pricing, descriptions, pictures, knows 660 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,760 what's there, knows what's not when new things get added. 661 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:22,720 Whereas because that ERP has a Shopify integration, the ERP and 662 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,720 Shopify, they just make sure the app is working all the time. 663 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,160 So you don't even know when it needs updating, which saves you 664 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,760 the cost. Whereas this custom platform 665 00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,840 every time the ERP updates like you have to pay money to a 666 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:34,920 developer to sit there and do stuff. 667 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,320 So I love what you're saying, Chris, And I think the bigger, 668 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,480 wider thing absolutely is on Shopify, you don't have to make 669 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,480 those long term app decisions. I love the point you make about 670 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,800 you can use the one that's relevant today and then you can 671 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,880 change it quite easily later because you're not changing 672 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,840 Shopify itself. And if you want a new website, 673 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,960 you build a new theme, not a whole new e-commerce store. 674 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:55,680 I think there's loads a good advantages like that. 675 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,000 So thank you, Jonathan. Same question to you. 676 00:31:58,000 --> 00:31:59,760 What advice would you give to merchants if they were looking 677 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,240 for new apps or a new app suite or a new tool stack as we used 678 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,480 to call it pre Shopify days? Yeah, so obviously I'm going to 679 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,120 sound like a broken record, but definitely start with a built 680 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,040 for Shopify badge you. Know that filter? 681 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,000 Yeah. Exactly. 682 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,280 I, I mean, I think we specifically designed the 683 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,960 program to make sure that it matches what merchants care 684 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:23,360 about. And we know that these apps are 685 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,280 going the extra mile for quality and integration and performance. 686 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,400 And it just sort of like let's you go run your business. 687 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,080 You don't have to worry that things are going to be data is 688 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,760 going to be out of sync. You're not going to have the 689 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,280 full picture of your store and, and, and, and things like that 690 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,600 that are just so important to us and should be, you know, so 691 00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:45,600 important to Shopify and then therefore so important to 692 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,440 merchants. And so I'm going to be a broken 693 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,720 record on that. It's like start with my, my 694 00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,600 first three things are start with a built for Shopify badge, 695 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:55,960 start for the built for Shopify badge, and then of course, start 696 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,000 for the built for Shopify badge. I was. 697 00:32:58,160 --> 00:32:59,320 Wondering what the third one might be? 698 00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,120 Yes. Exactly. 699 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:03,480 Yeah. And and like Chris, I agree. 700 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,480 It's like read the reviews like we've also spent a lot of time 701 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,600 refining the review system. It was a very controversial 702 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,120 thing in the app, in the app developer space. 703 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,600 And but we did that for merchants, right? 704 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:18,440 It was, it was a very large Band-Aid that hurt a lot to RIP 705 00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,320 off, but we did that for merchants. 706 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:24,040 And so now the review should reflect reality and what's 707 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,200 happening. And so those reviews really, 708 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,560 really do matter. And I would start there as well. 709 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:31,880 Amazing. And we haven't spoken probably 710 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,560 enough today, actually thinking about it about about the reviews 711 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,360 themselves. And I'd certainly echo reviews 712 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,320 are really, really important. And it's both people reviewing 713 00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,080 your products to your customers and how much you guys work on 714 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,120 that as merchants. It's exactly the same with the 715 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:46,920 app. See, I would actually recommend 716 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,320 if you're using any app and you really like it, and I'm sure 717 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:52,400 you'd love this, Jonathan, there's more content on your 718 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,360 system as well. And it helps other merchants go 719 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,360 and review the apps you're using and then be honest. 720 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:57,360 You know something's not working. 721 00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,440 This is one thing I love is these apps are not just a random 722 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,000 website. You download a plug in, you 723 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:04,400 Chuck it on your server and get on your knees and pray. 724 00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:06,680 It's like these are all indoors, of course they've been checked. 725 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,199 And actually if something's not right there is there is support 726 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,159 available. And I probably should have asked 727 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,159 to say, is this support a requirement? 728 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,159 I don't know if it actually is or not, but if you have an app 729 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,199 in the App Store, do you have to provide support if people have 730 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:18,400 an issue with it? Yeah. 731 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,040 So that is a baseline requirement. 732 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,760 There are apps that provide better support. 733 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,600 So but and that's that's something that we could explore 734 00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,760 in the future. We just know that that's, it's 735 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,719 a, it's a, it's super important. We know for for merchants. 736 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,320 Absolutely. And I've had such good support 737 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:37,639 by from obviously as an agency we get the partner support from 738 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:40,600 Shopify, which is amazing, but also the the support from apps 739 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:41,679 as well. And again, one reason we 740 00:34:41,679 --> 00:34:44,360 endorsed you guys at Saguna so much is you can actually talk to 741 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:45,960 somebody. It's not a faceless system and 742 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,239 that person is going to care about your business and help 743 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:51,400 advise you on e-mail flows and workflows and automations you 744 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,280 could create and the way you should be discounting and that 745 00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:55,880 kind of thing. So yeah, I want to say a massive 746 00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,320 thank you to both of you. But Chris, I'm going to come to 747 00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,280 you first. If people are like, all right, 748 00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,320 I'm done with my e-mail platforms. 749 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:04,280 Saguna sounds amazing. You've told me 5 billion reasons 750 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:05,720 today why I should be using Saguno. 751 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,920 How can people reach out and how can they get that consultancy 752 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:10,040 through Winning we Shopify as well? 753 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,200 Yeah, absolutely. So you can go to saguno.com, you 754 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,720 know would love to which is S e.g. 755 00:35:17,720 --> 00:35:24,040 Uno.com and so check us outreach out install the app that you can 756 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,960 talk with the team through that. We would love to, to help. 757 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,960 It's, you know, coming up on BFCM time. 758 00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,760 So it's a, it's a perfect time to, to make sure you have your 759 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:36,240 house in order. And whether that's from a 760 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:39,560 deliverability perspective or from a campaign perspective, 761 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,320 we're here to help and, and talk through those things. 762 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:44,920 And yeah, we do. We do have an offer. 763 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,320 I'm sure you guys will put the link in the description here to, 764 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,800 to to help. But yeah, just love, love 765 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,240 working with merchants. And we're, we're just, we're 766 00:35:53,240 --> 00:35:56,400 just here to to help. Amazing. 767 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,320 Well, Chris, thank you so much for joining us today and thanks 768 00:35:58,320 --> 00:35:59,320 for all the insights you've shared as well. 769 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:00,200 It's been great to have you with us. 770 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,160 Yeah. Thanks, Nick. 771 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,520 Amazing. And Jonathan, massive thank you 772 00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:05,040 to you as well. It's great to have Shopify on 773 00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,640 the show as your name is in our name, although we couldn't put 774 00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,520 it on our domain when we set up our website because we wanted to 775 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:11,880 have a Shopify store and we couldn't include Shop by the 776 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,240 domain. Apart from that, we've had a 777 00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:15,560 lovely experience working with you guys today, but I want to 778 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,200 say a massive thank you for your time as well. 779 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,520 I know you're incredibly busy, so thanks for joining us today 780 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,000 and thanks for sharing so many great insights. 781 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:22,920 Thanks for having me, appreciate it. 782 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,120 Great stuff. And for everyone listening at 783 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,560 home again Tuesday, I'm gonna be doing a tea break talks. 784 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,240 Send in some really cool facts, some cool Quivia we're calling 785 00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:32,480 them. It's a bit of trivia. 786 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,280 I'll ask a question and one can guess what the answer is. 787 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,560 I made a word, I googled it. No one else is using it. 788 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,120 So I'm gonna try and trademark Quivia. 789 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:39,920 But make sure. Join us on Tuesday, grab a cup 790 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:41,600 of tea and we can talk about some of the news headlines going 791 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,320 on and be back again next week with amazing guests. 792 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,080 Also similar to today, interviewing guests, talking 793 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:47,240 about loads of different things going on. 794 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:49,000 If you haven't already, please hit the subscribe button. 795 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,320 Join our newsletter, which is powered by Shopify on our 796 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,840 Shopify store and it is Saguno powering the newsletters and 797 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,320 sent helping cinema as well. So go and sign up to that and 798 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,240 say yeah, hope you can hit subscribe, leave us a review and 799 00:37:00,240 --> 00:37:01,400 we hope to have you again next week. 800 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,280 Thanks for tuning in. Black Friday and cyber money are 801 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:04,920 coming in fast. Is your store ready? 802 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,240 You need your marketing dialed in before the big rush. 803 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,000 And our sponsors. Saguno has everything you need 804 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,880 in one place from emails and pop ups to reviews and more. 805 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,880 Saguno's suite of tools is built inclusively for Shopify, so 806 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,040 everything works seamlessly in your store. 807 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:21,080 And right now with code WWS 20, you get 20% off your first three 808 00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:22,800 months. So don't wait until the chaos 809 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,400 starts. Get your Black Friday and Cyber 810 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,280 Monday marketing ready today at saguno.com/winning with 811 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:31,440 shopifythatssaguno.com/winning with Shopify.