1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,160 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:05,560 In the nicest way possible, Nick, you stick to SEO and I'll 3 00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:07,760 stick to MPD. All right, let's do that then, 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:08,880 shall we? Let's do that. 5 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:10,920 I think that's the word. It's fatigue. 6 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:12,760 Half of the people that bought find themselves. 7 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,880 I think e-commerce is instantaneous. 8 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,040 They're just, they're just boxes of cash sitting in your 9 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:18,760 warehouse. But you'll get it a really good. 10 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,080 Price pull everything down. And within three months, we 11 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:23,960 started to get customer complaints. 12 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,440 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Winning with 13 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,280 Shopify podcast. If you've not seen it before, my 14 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,680 name's Nick and I've been hosting the show since 2020. 15 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,360 June 2020 is when it started. And if you haven't listened to 16 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:37,640 the show yet, you've been missing out. 17 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,960 And nothing to do with me. I'm not the star of the show 18 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,280 here. I just host it and I get to talk 19 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:44,200 to some amazing, amazing people. We get brands on, we get 20 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,000 suppliers on, we get tech tools on, we get Shopify apps on. 21 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,200 We have people that have done research papers and all sorts of 22 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,400 other things to help you grow your store and make the store as 23 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,560 successful as possible whilst having a lot of fun. 24 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:55,600 And I was going to say a minimal stress. 25 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,560 Stress is actually a really good I'm reading a book about stress 26 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:00,720 at the moment and how healthy it is for you. 27 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,120 That's how you manage it. Anyway, enough tangents about 28 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,519 stress. I'm not medically trained or 29 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:05,680 anything at all. And if you're thinking you're 30 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:07,360 tuned into the wrong podcast, you'd be right. 31 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:09,560 We're going to be talking about Shopify and e-commerce and 32 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,320 joining me today is an absolute legend. 33 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:12,720 And he's been on the show before. 34 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,160 So Johnny from Toasted. Johnny, welcome back. 35 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,640 How are you? Good morning. 36 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,200 Good afternoon rather, Nick. Yes, I'm, I'm good. 37 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:20,480 Thank you very much for having me back. 38 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:22,760 It's a pleasure. Well, it's lovely to have you 39 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,920 here and I love your product because I can't not look at the 40 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:29,160 site and then think I am really hungry now and I want to start a 41 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,440 fire. So tell us more what what is 42 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:32,920 your product? What do you guys sell? 43 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:35,120 And also really importantly, I remember this from last time. 44 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,760 Who do you run it with as well? Because I love the story behind 45 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:42,360 how it started. OK, so Toasted is a family 46 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,440 business and I set it up in 2020 and I brought my daughter on 47 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,880 board a very early age. She's currently at university so 48 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,480 she kind of like comes back and helps, but hopes to move back 49 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:58,200 when she finishes at the end of September next year to help me 50 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,400 drive the business even more. We're basically a family 51 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,120 business that produces marshmallow and toast and dip 52 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,120 kits and smalls kits for families to enjoy. 53 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,039 And the kits include all you would need to enjoy toasting 54 00:02:11,039 --> 00:02:15,040 marshmallows and making smalls indoors, outdoors, or whatever 55 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:17,520 the adventure takes you. Or in the doorway. 56 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,440 The marshmallow toaster. They've got marshmallows, 57 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,040 skewers, chocolate sprinkles and the beauty about our products is 58 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,640 that they're all packed in plastic free packaging. 59 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,000 Because I think for us as a business that started a few 60 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,400 years ago, why not set your stall out to be plastic free 61 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,000 from day one and try and be as eco friendly as possible? 62 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,280 Because it's much easier to do it on day one than it is to try 63 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,280 and change midway through that business journey. 64 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:46,360 Amazing, amazing. And you've got some stories to 65 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:48,760 tell and we're going to dig in some of these as we go through. 66 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:51,760 And I again, I love the product. It makes me so hungry. 67 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:53,720 But we're going to talk not immediately. 68 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:55,520 We're going to talk a little bit later actually about brand 69 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,080 positioning and how you bring some of those occasions and 70 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,760 events and scenarios to life in your marketing and your product 71 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:04,200 fit. And even just before we hit 72 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,640 record, I saw one of your ads on on YouTube coming up. 73 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:08,840 Probably we thought we think probably from one of your P Max 74 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:11,680 campaigns that was popping up was quite exciting and but 75 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:13,120 obviously around the corner right now. 76 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,800 And you've got some really experience in this as as have as 77 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,400 have I and lots of people in the agency behind me. 78 00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:21,200 And but Black Friday, Cyber Monday is just around the corner 79 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,400 and you've put something really interesting in the notes ahead 80 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,920 of today around e-mail versus ads or both. 81 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,360 Tell us how you guys are prepped for Berenice is going to be what 82 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:30,800 your fifth Black Friday actually for? 83 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:32,440 You might have done it in the first year or two, but your 84 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,600 fifth one for Toasted as well. Like, yeah, talk us through the 85 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,840 e-mail versus ads conundrum. OK, So it is a conundrum because 86 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,280 as we've gone through the, if you like the five years to get 87 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,720 to where we are, we've had lots of learnings. 88 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:47,160 Like anything in life, we say we're experts, but you can 89 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:48,720 always learn and develop and improve. 90 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:52,160 And I think it is a mixture of the two. 91 00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:56,200 You can't just rely solely on e-mail because that only goes to 92 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:00,520 your existing customer base or M Robe, sorry, not robe and listed 93 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,840 subscribers. And you can, you can't just go 94 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,280 to prospects via advertising. So I think it has to be a bit of 95 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,040 both. And the reason I say it's both 96 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,200 is because we've learned very, I suppose painfully last year and 97 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:17,720 the year before that you can't do 1 without the other. 98 00:04:18,399 --> 00:04:21,480 And we've got a very strong and loyal customer base, but we've 99 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:25,560 also actively got a very growing prospect subscriber list. 100 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:28,880 And the whole strategy for this Black Friday is to encourage 101 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:31,760 them to move through the steps and to engage for their first 102 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:36,560 purchase or indeed for us as a business that enjoys significant 103 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,800 repeat business, to try and entice them back for a second, a 104 00:04:39,840 --> 00:04:42,280 third or a fourth purchase occasion. 105 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:46,960 And, and to do that, it's about educating, it's about informing, 106 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,320 it's about entertaining and showing them the potential usage 107 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,080 occasions and maximizing the gifting opportunities. 108 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,960 So people will buy for Black Friday predominately for one 109 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:57,600 reason, which is for Christmas and for gifting. 110 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:00,960 They don't really buy for personal consumption unless 111 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,880 you've got a small percentage who kind of will hold and they 112 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,600 will stockpile for use after Christmas and in Q1 because they 113 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,120 see it cheaper and a better way to do it. 114 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:11,680 We have no problem with that, Nick. 115 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,720 We like those. Great higher, deeper basket 116 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,840 spends. However, in conjunction to that, 117 00:05:17,840 --> 00:05:20,600 ads are really important because they do two things. 118 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:25,520 They show up in people's feeds to new prospects, people who 119 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,960 aren't aware of us, or even people who have come across the 120 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:30,360 brand before. And it's about just pushing and 121 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,720 nudging and enticing and bringing them to make that 122 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,280 purchase during that Black Friday weekend. 123 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,400 And for us, we're currently in the throes of pulling together a 124 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,920 final, if you like, e-mail and advertising campaign for Black 125 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,200 Friday. And one of the key learnings 126 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,080 from last year, Nick, which you may well have evidence in giving 127 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,120 you a background in your agency, is that Black Friday isn't just 128 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,360 around those four days of Friday to Cyber Monday. 129 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,480 A lot of brands have extended it out and they're offering the 130 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:02,200 full, if you like, promotional campaign for seven days starting 131 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,240 on the Monday before the Black Friday. 132 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,120 We've had longer than 7. It's a lot longer than seven. 133 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,240 I think our record was seven weeks rather than seven days. 134 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:12,920 Yeah, yeah. It caused the headache. 135 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,520 The business nearly fell apart in January because of. 136 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:19,360 Sale fatigue initiative or was that a client to you? 137 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,040 Don't do this was our was our official e-mail. 138 00:06:23,360 --> 00:06:24,240 Yeah, yeah. And it was, yeah. 139 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,000 We reached January and everyone was like, well, it's been 140 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,680 discounted for so long now, why am I paying full price? 141 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:30,840 And we actually had to wait two or three months and just pull 142 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,280 everything down. And the only option was to just 143 00:06:33,280 --> 00:06:36,120 pull all marketing down until kind of March, April, and then 144 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:37,840 sort of slowly start trickling it back up. 145 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:40,560 And over that time, they decided to launch like almost a 146 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,200 completely new product range just to say like all the old 147 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:44,800 stuff's gone. This is new, it's premium, it's 148 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:46,280 luxury. They had to work so hard. 149 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:48,280 They we did get it back up and running and we still work with 150 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:50,440 those guys. But it was, yeah, sell fatigue 151 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,240 was was quite extreme, quite extreme. 152 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:53,400 Yeah. And I think that's the word. 153 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:57,480 It's fatigue because every brand is trying to capitalize on Black 154 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,720 Friday. And so you can go earlier and 155 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,360 try and get ahead of the pack. But does that do you any benefit 156 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,760 in relation to your community and your audience? 157 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,280 Probably for the first week, I'd imagine. 158 00:07:09,640 --> 00:07:11,440 Yeah, I see that as well. Maximum. 159 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,360 To be honest, Nick, I don't even think this year we will go a 160 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,480 full week. I think we will just capitalize 161 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:20,040 on maybe the Friday to the Monday and we might do teasers 162 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,400 and incentives for the prior period and the post period. 163 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,600 Hey guys, I just want to take a moment aside from today's 164 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,960 episode to introduce one of our amazing sponsors, Kavella. 165 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,520 They are the all in one platform that helps you design, sample 166 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,280 and launch your product lines. Kavella are helping Shopify 167 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,840 brands save up to 40% on stock costs thanks to their smart 168 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:41,720 streamlined supply chain. That means more profit for you, 169 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,160 less costs and loads of time saved in trying to get stock on 170 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,120 your shelves right now. You can fast track their waiting 171 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:53,400 list and get 50% of your first sample order just by using the 172 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:56,560 code winning at checkout. This exclusive offer for winning 173 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,160 with Shopify podcast listeners. Just go to the link in our 174 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,720 description or in our bio to unlock the savings and skip the 175 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:03,440 queue. You build your brand, save on 176 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,040 stock and step into the future of e-commerce with Cabela. 177 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,640 That code again winning back to the episode. 178 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:10,160 Absolutely, which makes a lot of sense. 179 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:13,560 And I love what you say as well about the some people will buy 180 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,320 for themselves. We did an e-mail survey last 181 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:18,880 year to one of our clients because we thought people were 182 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,040 stockpiling for themselves because they're all not 183 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,280 necessarily stockpiling, just buying gifts for themselves, 184 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,560 which sounds really bizarre because a lot of the things they 185 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,080 bought were the same trends of things they'd bought earlier in 186 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:30,760 the year. And it, it wasn't like, oh, 187 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,720 look, here's some, it's not the kind of thing you go looking 188 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:35,280 for. You don't look at like there's 189 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:37,360 this one period of the year. And is that different to it? 190 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,880 Like all the people that buy 5 + * a year does, does their buying 191 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:42,840 behavior at Christmas match what they've done the rest of the 192 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,120 year? 50% of them were buying gifts 193 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,480 and 50% were just buying another product themselves while it was 194 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,520 on discount. And it was literally a 5050 of 195 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:51,360 the revenue. Half of the people that bought, 196 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:53,680 buying for themselves, which I thought was fascinating. 197 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,840 And I love what you're saying about, yeah, the ads versus 198 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,360 e-mail, though, there is a big opportunity. 199 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,240 And also I would say every year, like customers are in buying 200 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,720 mode. It's like be be available 201 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,880 because people's wallets are full and open and ready to roll. 202 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,040 So if you're not around in that time, say you like go like 203 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,560 second week of Jan, Let's, let's, let's do a massive push 204 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:13,800 in advertising with no discounts. 205 00:09:13,800 --> 00:09:15,400 It's like people are in discount mode. 206 00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:16,880 It depends. Obviously in the niche, the 207 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,640 space, the country, everything, but people are in discount mode. 208 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,200 So I think it's, I love what you say about riding the wave when 209 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,280 it's there, but then also knowing what we're going to do 210 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,480 next afterwards. Actually easement's my next 211 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,720 question. So what are you guys planning 212 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,920 for given that you've done five years of this now, what are you 213 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:32,680 planning for January? Is that going to, how's that 214 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:34,480 going to be different obviously to peak, we know we're going to 215 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:35,720 peak. What's going to be different in 216 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,200 January? OK. 217 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:39,600 So in January this year, we're going to do things slightly 218 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,480 differently. So I'm always kind of late to 219 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,320 the party because I like to bring new products out. 220 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:48,400 This year, as an example, we've brought Christmas to Halloween 221 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:49,800 much earlier than we normally do. 222 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,680 We launched late August. I've never done that before in 223 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:55,520 five years. I am feeling the benefit of that 224 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,520 because we've had significant sales of those two product 225 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:00,560 lines, much more than we've had previously. 226 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,640 So that's a real advantage. So carrying that trend forward, 227 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:08,680 we've got new products ready to launch for Q1, stroke Q2. 228 00:10:08,680 --> 00:10:11,040 So we will launch those in mid January. 229 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,880 And so they're kind of along the lines of fire pit kits which we 230 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:18,720 currently do, but we're going to be doing them on a much bigger 231 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,160 grander scale. Think Toblerone in terms of 232 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,880 triangular tube, but extend it to warm up the meter in size. 233 00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:29,640 And that's kind of going to be where we're going to be focusing 234 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,240 Q1 and certainly mid January. But what I would say, there's a 235 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,680 brand that is kind of consumed all year round and has an 236 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:39,720 element of gifting. So we get a massive spike at 237 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:41,760 Christmas. We don't fall off a Cliff and 238 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:45,120 don't sell anything in January and February we still get a lot 239 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,400 of consumption because people would be doing for the weekends, 240 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:51,960 they'll be starting to prepare for camping as well as back to 241 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,880 school and gifting and people going back to university. 242 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,200 So January, believe it or not, tends to be really busy for us. 243 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:02,640 So it's a mixture of making sure we've got enough stock post 244 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:04,680 Christmas to cope with the demand that we'll get. 245 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,720 We don't really have to incentivize that much. 246 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,160 So we're not doing really deep kind of like, you know, post 247 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,880 Christmas sales. We might have a little kind of 248 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:19,520 like a gentle offer, so to speak, but we're not kind of 50% 249 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,120 off or 40% off because we never really go to those depths 250 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:25,320 because we're not that type of brand or business. 251 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,280 But what we will do is kind of like educate and incentivize and 252 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,040 try and encourage people to maybe build, buy. 253 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,440 Maybe the average weight of purchase will increase because 254 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,560 they're buying 3 or 4 kits at a discount rather than that single 255 00:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,840 or or additional purchase. Amazing. 256 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:45,080 I mean, there's so much to go out in that. 257 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,840 And I'm going to start with this one where you launch the range 258 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:51,120 end of August. We've been launching stuff early 259 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:54,880 for clients purely from an SEO point of view to get the ranking 260 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,640 before the season hits. And so some of our clients, we 261 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,080 actually have pages live all year round for Black Friday, for 262 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:04,880 Mother's Day, Father's Day, Valentine's Day, Labor Day, for 263 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,520 American businesses, Thanksgiving, we have these 264 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,000 pages live all year. So we're already like in the top 265 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,720 ranking and already competing while there's zero demand. 266 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,200 And as the demand starts to trickle in, we're already number 267 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,200 one and then the product range launches. 268 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,600 So we put like an e-mail, you know, sign up to be the first to 269 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,000 hear about this, but we're going to e-mail you right up until it 270 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:23,920 starts about all the other things that are similar. 271 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,120 So if you're celebrating Mother's Day, well, Father's Day 272 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,560 is coming. So you know, we've got Father's 273 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:29,160 Day to talk about and then we've got Christmas, which is also 274 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,320 gifting. And then we've got Valentine's 275 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:31,920 Day, which is always also gifting. 276 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,440 So if you're a big gift buyer, we've got the whole year to talk 277 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,480 about you until the next Mother's Day when you're going 278 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:37,800 to buy the thing that you've actually signed up on the 279 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,480 waiting list for. So there's all these e-mail 280 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,240 stories, but the SCO especially is you do not want to try and 281 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,320 get to #1 on Google on Black Friday starting at one minute 282 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:47,280 past midnight. You will not be there by the end 283 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,320 of the day. And now it's Saturday and Black 284 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,000 Friday. That's really interesting. 285 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:53,920 Because you're kind of capitalizing on 1st mover 286 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,680 advantage from an SEO optimization, which there are 287 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,560 many people in the industry that talk about that. 288 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,960 So that's quite refreshing. It is part of our secret sauce 289 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,320 and my SEO agency turned me off for telling too much on here. 290 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:07,400 They're like, people should pay for these things, and obviously 291 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:09,400 someone's still got to go and build the thing and make it 292 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,880 work. There's still the whole of SEO 293 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:14,880 to be #1 but yeah, I think it's, it's fascinating to see how 294 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:16,960 early businesses and brands start to go on this. 295 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:20,800 And we've got notes here as well, Johnny, about expanding 296 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,360 your range with your niche and identifying new growth 297 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,680 opportunities. And you've mentioned the biggest 298 00:13:25,680 --> 00:13:28,240 buzzwords in the last five years, which is vegan, gluten 299 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:31,080 free and dairy free, which are all fantastic things to the 300 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,680 right person, which is cool. How complicated is that to 301 00:13:34,680 --> 00:13:36,920 branch out into those for products like yours where 302 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,720 marshmallows, I don't even know. Are they traditionally all those 303 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,880 things or are they specifically made of milk? 304 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:44,960 I actually have no idea. I've eaten them loads over the 305 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,120 years. I've never looked in the back of 306 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,880 a packet well. You'll be surprised. 307 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,240 Most marshmallows in the UK include gelatin of a beef or 308 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:57,040 pork basis and therefore they are obviously non vegan, non 309 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,040 vegetarian. And some religions as well, 310 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,440 which is in other important markets, correct? 311 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,800 It is an important market, particularly as I think we've 312 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,760 noticed certainly in the last five years there's been a 313 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:11,080 significant level of interest and growth in smalls each year 314 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,200 on year on year. I guess, you know, back on the 315 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:18,160 Americanization and the normal consumer trends, but we've also 316 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,320 done a lot of work. We've advertised quite heavily 317 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,720 in the last five years. You yourself mentioned before an 318 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:26,480 advert popped up on YouTube. So we've kind of really from a 319 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,520 category perspective been the only people driving the growth 320 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,520 of smalls and marshmallow kits. To switch to vegan and gluten 3 321 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,280 and dairy 3 hasn't been easy because as a brand of our nature 322 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,960 and my background being in food of 25 years, I'm very much 323 00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:45,800 quality first. And if I can't get a quality 324 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,600 component that ticks the box for vegan or gluten free or dairy 325 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:54,120 free, then we won't consider it. And so in the early days, we 326 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,360 launched the three from kit as a kind of tickle boxes and the 327 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,680 quality of the chocolate that we managed to get at the time that 328 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:04,160 was dairy free, vegan and so forth was excellent. 329 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,120 Fast forward two years. That said, supplier in a very 330 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,680 difficult marketplace decided to close their business. 331 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,160 So we ended up again going around the market and trying to 332 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:15,760 search for a quality replacement. 333 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:17,840 It was a challenge. We didn't really have a range 334 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,400 for about a year. But now I'm happy to say that 335 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,440 we've got kind of like the best selling, the fastest growing 336 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,680 vegan smalls kit in different sizes. 337 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,480 We're even about to launch a vegan hot chocolate kit and 338 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,800 we're doing really well on that area and it covers 4 bases, as 339 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,960 you said, not just gluten free and vegan and vegetarian and 340 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,640 dairy free, but also the religious that we get a lot of 341 00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,880 halal type consumers who are really interested to give the 342 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,720 kids that experience. They may have gone to a birthday 343 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,200 party where people have bought 30 of our mini smalls kits and 344 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,400 they might have been a recipient of a vegan mini smalls kit which 345 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,920 they thought was absolutely wonderful because their kids are 346 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:59,160 not missing out and they can enjoy the experience and the 347 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,440 occasion. And one of the other areas that 348 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,760 we've really benefited from is corporate gifting because if 349 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,400 you're a business and you're looking to source corporate 350 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,560 gifts, you want a product that has a bit of flexibility. 351 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,200 So if I've got, you know, 100 employees and I'm going to send 352 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:18,560 a smalls or a gifting kit to, what about my vegan and Dairy 3 353 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:21,320 and Gluten 3 members? And in a workplace, don't take 354 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,920 any chances is my. Experience. 355 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,240 It's like just cater to everyone and ask no questions apart from 356 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,240 what do I need to cater for? Yeah, and we even get some 357 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,080 corporate customers saying, look, it'll be easier, let's 358 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,640 just do 100 of vegan kits so everyone gets the same kit. 359 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,560 Yeah, yeah, I I had someone recently and I won't name names, 360 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:40,840 so I can say what I can give you, give you the full quote for 361 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,800 everyone listening. But I the other day he said he 362 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,120 went on a rant like I couldn't eat vegan, I don't want vegan. 363 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,000 So quite an ignorant kind of view. 364 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:49,920 I think like I eat a lot of vegan food. 365 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,120 So and then he and then he goes there in the middle of this rant 366 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,520 he goes, Oh no, I could never eat vegan chocolate. 367 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,800 I just couldn't do it. Like just it wouldn't work. 368 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,120 I said, do you like dark chocolate? 369 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:01,680 And he goes well, yeah, but only the non vegan ones. 370 00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:03,240 I'm like, I don't think any dark chocolate. 371 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:04,920 It's like milk free. It's just Coco. 372 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,240 Shows how and they kind of, you know. 373 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,160 Yeah, there was sort of the well, yeah, I don't mind that 374 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,680 one, but is that just so it was brilliant and but but point 375 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:15,680 being is you're absolutely. Right. 376 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:17,440 Yeah, we come. Across that actually the safest 377 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:18,640 option. Sometimes lots of people have 378 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,119 examples. Oh, sorry, it disconnected now 379 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,240 it's reconnected, OK. That's fine, no? 380 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:24,800 Problem. I'll jump. 381 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:26,000 I'll jump straight into that bit. 382 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,720 I was about to round off that comment, but so, yeah, the the 383 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,000 safest option sometimes you say with the corporate gifting is 384 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,600 let's just go vegan all the way through and people, people's 385 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:36,160 reaction to a good product as well. 386 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,680 It's almost like a oh, like vegan people would go like, this 387 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,240 is delicious. I'm going to buy more of these. 388 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,440 It's fantastic. As a vegan, I found a new 389 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,320 product or as someone who's got, you know, some sort of dietary 390 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,280 requirement, I found a new product I can have This is 391 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,200 fantastic. So everyone else going that's 392 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,120 vegan, that's all right. That's actually really nice. 393 00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:53,680 Like I quite love that. And I've actually like, I'm not, 394 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,920 I'm not completely dairy free. I can have a low level of dairy 395 00:17:56,920 --> 00:17:58,520 too much and it just makes me feel unwell. 396 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,720 So I, I found some really good dairy free cheeses now and that 397 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,440 I eat sometimes just on their own. 398 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:04,840 I literally go, I'm gonna have some cheese and wine. 399 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,560 I'm gonna choose the, the vegan option because it's so much less 400 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:09,360 like all the bloating and all the other stuff. 401 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,320 And you can sleep properly afterwards because your body is 402 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,400 not trying to digest. There's all these like good 403 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:15,480 outputs. So I think having those options, 404 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:17,240 I mean, you've mentioned, I'm not going to go down to all 405 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:18,680 these routes. You've mentioned supply chain 406 00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,800 issues. We talk a lot about that on the 407 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,880 show. You've mentioned corporate 408 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,560 gifting, fantastic idea, which links I think into, again, 409 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,120 bigger orders, links into something right at the end of my 410 00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,920 notes about wholesale. We're going to talk about in a 411 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,200 bit as well and going into that. But I'm going to bring up the 412 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,920 question now because I mentioned at the start and you've 413 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,320 mentioned so many different situations and scenarios where 414 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:39,680 someone would enjoy your product. 415 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,080 How do you bring that to life in your branding? 416 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,720 Because your brand, like yours, starts to get to the point where 417 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,720 you've got so many messages and avenues and wordings and 418 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,240 benefits and USPS that you could go down. 419 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,320 How do you structure and organise that in your 420 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,560 communications, your marketing messages, your emails, your 421 00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,480 adverts? How do you decide which one to 422 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,880 roll with where? Great question. 423 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,000 So for us, we tend to simplify it. 424 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:09,640 We will try to use the enjoyment factor, which is the outcome 425 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,440 from the product as the hero. And then we will wrap around the 426 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:19,880 potential usage occasion or the gifting opportunity around that 427 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,200 hero proposition. So it simplifies it. 428 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:26,200 So a lot of our ads that you may see on YouTube or Matter or 429 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,480 Google, it's all about the product and the enjoyment. 430 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,560 And then we'll wrap the copy and the text and the positioning, if 431 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,480 you like, around the different scenarios that we're trying to 432 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,400 focus in. Yeah, yeah, the one, the one 433 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,160 that's come up, I've just gone straight back to the page. 434 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:41,480 I actually shut it and reopened it. 435 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,640 It's got a, it's got one of your little toasted heat kits with a 436 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,480 little flame coming out of it. Sorry, not heat the little 437 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,120 literally out of the. Fire and then it's got. 438 00:19:48,120 --> 00:19:50,920 Some packets behind it, some fairy lights in the background 439 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:52,800 so clearly and a tree clearly outside. 440 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:54,440 So like, yeah, I see what you mean. 441 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,880 Like it's very kind of this, this is this could be you, which 442 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,520 is the first rule of marketing and sales is always features 443 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:03,880 tell benefits sell. And I find so often brands we 444 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,520 work with, they look in their warehouse and go like, oh, look, 445 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,160 there's one of the. For these, let's call it that 446 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,840 and it's like customers don't call it that. 447 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,040 They so often customers call it the size, the colour or or where 448 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,040 they're going to use it. They don't necessarily call it 449 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,760 the thing. So they might not search and to 450 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,520 find you marshmallows, but they might search like small kits as 451 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,360 I would imagine. Have you not done any keyword 452 00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:23,680 research? Am I close? 453 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,640 Is that is that far off or? No, they put you on the mark, 454 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,440 and I'll guess the rest of your colleagues in your agency will 455 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,000 be patting themselves on the back for a job well done. 456 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,720 There we go. You've nailed it. 457 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,560 They're the keywords. Yeah, Yeah, absolutely, 458 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,080 absolutely. And let's talk about wholesale 459 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,680 then. So obviously you can sell one 460 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:43,440 product or you could discount it and sell 1000 of them somewhere. 461 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:46,040 Are you guys, is that, is that in the future? 462 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,000 Are you doing that already? Like where, where are you guys 463 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:49,560 at with the wholesale side of the business? 464 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,000 Very good question, Nick. So we started our wholesale 465 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,960 journey earlier this year. Now, anyone that knows or anyone 466 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:58,240 listening to the podcast knows that if you sell wholesale, you 467 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,760 sell it at a lot lower price than you would if you were 468 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,640 selling it ecommerce and DTC because you've got to give the 469 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:07,320 retailer the opportunity to make a margin common sense. 470 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,200 However, the benefit being you're selling a bulk, bigger 471 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:14,240 quantities and you tend to be paid in a similar way if you're 472 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,800 using a platform like say, Fair. So this year we've branched out 473 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:20,000 and we've really gone through it. 474 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,640 So we had major listings in two of EU KS largest garden centres, 475 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:29,040 which was really beneficial. We've also started to focus in 476 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,080 on the online wholesale platforms like Fair. 477 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:37,280 However, in saying that, it also frustrates me because when you 478 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,720 have a platform like Fair who are only interested in selling 479 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:43,800 and obviously taking the Commission, they're not really 480 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,760 interested in the end user. And are they a potential 481 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:50,240 stockist or is it someone who's just registered on Fair? 482 00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:54,080 Like in my example last week where I got an order faulty 483 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:55,320 kits. This is brilliant. 484 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,000 This is great. Do a quick check on who the 485 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,640 customer was and it's a care home. 486 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,800 So clearly an owner of a care home has decided to make a 487 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,800 purchase maybe to gift staff. They will never repeat that 488 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:07,640 purchase, but they managed to get wholesale discount. 489 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,200 So the anomalies aside, I think wholesale as a part of your 490 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,520 business strategy can really complement your growth and 491 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,360 that's the way we look at it. So higher margins through DTC, 492 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,800 lower margins through wholesale, but wholesale get you more 493 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,440 eyeballs and more fingers on the product when it's in situ, in 494 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,760 convenience and gift shops and garden centres and those 495 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:36,360 additional retail environments, which only then lead to people 496 00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:38,120 coming back to your brand online. 497 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:40,720 So it adds to that virtuous cycle. 498 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:42,960 Yeah. Do you ever find that in your 499 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,040 warehouse? You have dead stock, You can't 500 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,080 sell it, no one wants to buy it, and you can't get a refund on 501 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:49,440 it. Or alternatively, you're missing 502 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,360 inventory in your warehouse that you need, you've got sales 503 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:54,120 coming in and you're low on stock and you haven't ordered 504 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:56,760 more stock in time. All these things hit profit. 505 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,480 And I've been there. I've run my own Shopify store 506 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:01,080 and had exactly that problem. But we've partnered up with 507 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,520 Inventory Planner who have the most incredible app to help you 508 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,360 manage that and forecast exactly what products, what skews even 509 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,680 down to what colour of product you need to order in advance to 510 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:13,440 make sure stock levels remain consistent throughout. 511 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:15,440 They're also running a seven day boot camp. 512 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,480 And if you want to go and sign up to that, it's 7 emails every 513 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,280 seven days and it takes the same amount of time as your morning 514 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,360 coffee. And in seven days, like me, you 515 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:24,160 can become an inventory management pro. 516 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,240 Both links are in the description. 517 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:27,920 Enjoy. Absolutely. 518 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,800 You made some good points. And a lot of businesses we've 519 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,400 spoken to over the years or business I've worked with, they 520 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,760 go through these phases with wholesale 1 is when they start 521 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:38,280 on like fair or they get a contract through like maybe it's 522 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,640 something in marketplaces. So like your Amazons, your way, 523 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:42,760 fairs, etcetera. And obviously relevant to each 524 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,920 company or each brand. You start there, then you move 525 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:48,080 into a phase of like, OK, let's actually make some of these 526 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,760 stockists now like proper relationships. 527 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,680 And then you move into a phase of going, let's hire a sales 528 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,880 director and just give them a company car and be like, dude, 529 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,480 500 laps of the United Kingdom or the United States and do not 530 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,920 come back until you've got a billion contracts signed from 531 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,560 every possible place that could stock us. 532 00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,080 And now we've made it. And obviously every time you got 533 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:09,720 the food chain it or got garbage, those steps, the 534 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,800 initial outlay cost goes up, but the rewards go up as well. 535 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:14,280 And you get those, those relationships. 536 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,080 And there was a similar, similar food and drink brand I spoke to 537 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,000 you about a year ago who they managed to get one contract with 538 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,560 British Airways to sell their food within the British Airways 539 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,040 like meal they were doing on the planes. 540 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,800 And as soon as they got that, they just phoned all the other 541 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,680 airlines and said, we've just signed this. 542 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,160 Well, we've got this contract in principle. 543 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:33,280 We haven't put our signature on it. 544 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,000 Would you like to cut us a better deal? 545 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,600 And just started like negotiating them and they 546 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,600 managed to increase their increase their margin by 22%, 547 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:41,360 not signing the British Airways 1. 548 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:42,720 They ended up I think. It was either Qatar. 549 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:44,840 Or Emirates. And I thought it was so smart 550 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,760 and said, well, what market you going to next? 551 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:47,720 They were like, that's a great idea. 552 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,880 So like they immediately were like, right, that's planes. 553 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:51,960 Where else can we sell them food? 554 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,160 Is it private hospitals somewhere where you're given a 555 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,240 meal basically and you want something a little bit special 556 00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:57,520 in that meal that doesn't cost much? 557 00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,880 So it's like, I think the wholesale journey is really 558 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:01,400 good. But you make such a good point 559 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:04,200 about fare. I at work have a Costco card I 560 00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:07,680 use on buy and I use fare to get get those wholesale discounts. 561 00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,480 Obviously two of those are designed for people to bulk buy, 562 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,120 but fare will give you the full trades kind of wholesale price. 563 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,880 We're lucky enough we've got enough clients and enough spaces 564 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,880 that like our coffee, we buy a wholesale from a client and all 565 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,800 our furniture we get a wholesale from a client like yeah, we've 566 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:24,040 got, we've got some good stuff like that. 567 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,720 But I think having that direct relationship like you mentioned 568 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,280 with the garden centres that that that's always going to be 569 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,720 better than, yeah, you just let them up and it's one care home 570 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,720 sort of thing. It's going to be better, 571 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,520 however, to go into the wholesale environment you need 572 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:41,880 to almost upskill because if you're an e-commerce specialist 573 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,400 and haven't had the benefit or expertise of growing a brand 574 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,040 offline, it's a total different kettle of fish. 575 00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,480 I'm lucky. I've worked on big brands in big 576 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,480 food businesses in a traditional way and I've then migrated onto 577 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,080 e-commerce and become more of a specialist on digital. 578 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:02,440 However, for a brand that hasn't really done sold online, to jump 579 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:06,440 into wholesale, it is a challenge because you do need to 580 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:11,120 go and invest in going to see some of those retail outlets to 581 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,720 drive footfall and sales. You can. 582 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,720 I always work on a motto, Nick, that you can sell anything once, 583 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,680 but if that's not a brand or a business, because if you don't 584 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,160 have repeat sales, then you haven't got a future. 585 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,120 You've got to keep chasing that next listing, that next 586 00:26:26,120 --> 00:26:28,240 customer. And what you want is repeat 587 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:32,080 business that keeps dripping, pouring in to grow the the band, 588 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,520 the brand and the business. Yeah, yeah, it sounds like 589 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:35,560 you're looking at my agency model. 590 00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,720 We only work on retainers here. Like it's, I know exactly if 591 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,560 every single client left today, I know what my notice periods 592 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:42,920 are and I know when we're going to run out of cash. 593 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,440 It's like, and those are the metrics I look at in e-commerce 594 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:47,480 is so much harder. And we actually, we do actually 595 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,560 see that in, you know, dare I say on my own podcast with 596 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,600 hundreds of thousands of people that listen to this every week 597 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,560 now, like dare I say that actually e-commerce is one of 598 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,480 our shorter contract lengths, which is probably not a surprise 599 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,080 to anyone. B2B companies where it's like 600 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,400 we've got an 8 year lead time between someone filling out a 601 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:04,680 form and purchasing our products. 602 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,520 Well, we got eight years before we even start to know if when we 603 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,120 started we were effective or not. 604 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,480 Say you get that longevity with things and it's, it's a much 605 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,520 stronger position. But to be honest, we love 606 00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,080 e-commerce. I love the fast and furious 607 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,440 nature of it, hence why we do all of this. 608 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,800 It's like you make a change today and it's like ROI has gone 609 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,920 from 4:00 to 5:00 and then the FD like what does that mean? 610 00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,480 It means every pound we put into Google getting another pound 611 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,120 back out like, and it's just pure profits. 612 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:28,560 We were above the break even lines like great, can we spend 613 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:29,760 more? It's like, yeah, yeah, we can 614 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:31,360 spend more. Like it's really exciting, but 615 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,320 or you can also have the opposite conversation, which is 616 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,640 really the thing was going not working, turn it downloads. 617 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,360 Let's talk a little bit about Black Friday, Halloween, let's 618 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:43,120 talk about Christmas, but specifically about trends. 619 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,120 You mentioned, we mentioned earlier about some of these 620 00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:46,320 things, but like the seasonal trends. 621 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,480 I've got the massive, massive question for you and you 622 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,680 obviously your background in food and drink, you probably 623 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,840 know more about this and the pain of this than most brands 624 00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,840 because of the shelf life and the use by date and stuff. 625 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,960 How do you make sure that when you bring all your stock in, you 626 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,880 get enough that's themed around the season, say Halloween themed 627 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,440 things. You get enough Halloween themed 628 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,320 items in that you don't run out of stock and you make the most 629 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,800 of that season that that sales periods without ending up with 630 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,320 all this dead stock That especially in your in your world 631 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,280 and your background as well, that will go off. 632 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,800 How do you manage that? What are some of the some of the 633 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:23,800 tricks you've learned over the years? 634 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:25,880 OK. So we're very fortunate that we 635 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,480 pack all of our own components and kits and make the kits of 636 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,600 ourselves. So the only elements that are 637 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:38,160 themed will only be an element of packaging and a 1-2 or three 638 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,160 components that sit within the kit. 639 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,520 And the reason for that is simplicity is always the best. 640 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,520 So we only have, believe it or not, we've probably got about 25 641 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,480 skews, but we only have two standard boxes, one large, one 642 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,920 mini, and it's a generic design. And then we adapt it by having a 643 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:58,080 printed sleeve that wraps around a portion of the box and the 644 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,560 printed sleeve can be printed in much lower quantities. 645 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,640 So if we over order by 100 or 200 or 500 or even 1000, we're 646 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,360 not talking, you know, a shed load of investment. 647 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:13,280 It might be 200 lbs. However, having done this now 648 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,160 for a while, it's much easier to forecast and judge what that 649 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,480 initial order should be. And then we top up as we go 650 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,480 through the seasonal trend. So to give you an example, 651 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,320 Halloween, we haven't gone out on ordered, you know, 5000 kind 652 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,520 of like printed sleeves to complete all of those kits. 653 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:33,560 We're packing them on a daily, weekly cycle. 654 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,400 So we know that there's only probably 3 days left of 655 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:40,680 Halloween sales and we have only really packed what we think we 656 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,720 will need. If we've got components that are 657 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:47,720 Halloween related like pumpkin marshmallows, we've only bought 658 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,200 a certain amount of those and the ones we have bought have an 659 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,360 extended shelf life to January 2027. 660 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,600 So that would allow us then to use them at the beginning of 661 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,920 next Halloween season. And that's how we as a business 662 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,520 capitalize on these seasonal trends without the the risk, 663 00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:06,160 shall we say that you've flagged. 664 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,480 Yeah, which is a smart way to do it. 665 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,280 We we've had one or two brands that start doing like a mystery 666 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,640 box. That's a good way of getting rid 667 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,680 of dead stock. So it's like at Christmas you 668 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:18,480 get like, you know, one that's got a sun on it, one that's got, 669 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:21,000 I don't know, like 1's got a heart on it from Valentine's 670 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:22,680 Day, one that's got a pumpkin on it. 671 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,760 If you're like, which you know, as you just said, like it's 672 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,880 basically the same thing, but there's a slight different theme 673 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:29,520 around it, but it's the same product all year round. 674 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,000 I think the longer you can make the shelf life, the better. 675 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,480 We've even had brands before say like you can do a short life 676 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,960 mystery box, whether it's like makeup, cosmetics, food and 677 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,360 drink, supplements, whatever it might be. 678 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,720 But saying like these, you know, you guarantee at least a three 679 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,440 month shelf life. So you use it all in that time, 680 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:47,280 but we're going to give you a discount if you do a mystery 681 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,920 box. And a mystery box means we can 682 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,440 kind of control what goes in it. Not so easy when you've only got 683 00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,120 1 product in two sizes like you do with various variants. 684 00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,840 But I think it's all about getting creative in marketing. 685 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,920 I think the data tells you what's wrong, but then you've 686 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:02,000 got to do some creative testing to fix it and go. 687 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,280 We tried that. It had every reason why it 688 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,000 should work, but customers hated it and they just hated it. 689 00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,680 And, but luckily our branding means we can just sort of say 690 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,520 sorry to them and move on. Like, sorry you guys didn't 691 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,200 enjoy that. Here's a new one that you will 692 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,320 enjoy because of the feedback we got on the 1 you didn't enjoy. 693 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,120 And so you've engaged customers and that that, that 694 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,160 authenticity, which is word of the year, I can't remember last 695 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,560 year, the year before in the US And that trust you build with 696 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,080 people, I think is really, really key, isn't it? 697 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:27,840 I think it is, but you've just hit the nail on the head because 698 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,320 I think e-commerce is instantaneous. 699 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,680 So I've seen a lot of brands be on TikTok and use their TikTok 700 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:38,960 shop to clear end of life and bundles of stock out at a really 701 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,080 low price. And I've also seen, as you've 702 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:44,280 probably witnessed, the massive upsurge in mystery boxes 703 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,440 because, you know, we did a kit last year for Eurovision and 704 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,480 we've still got some of the packaging left and we keep 705 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,760 generating. We're going to do mystery boxes 706 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,760 and you're going to get Halloween, Christmas and 707 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:58,560 Eurovision, but you'll get it a really good price. 708 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,800 All the products will still be in Live, but you can have a bit 709 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:02,480 of fun because you don't know what you're going to get. 710 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,800 And those products that are unsold, I always use the analogy 711 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,320 like this. They're just, they're just boxes 712 00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,320 of cash sitting in your warehouse that you can't spend. 713 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,520 You can't spend that cash until you've liquefied them into 714 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,720 actual money. And we've got some numbers from 715 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,520 the business as well. Say you guys around 450 KA year 716 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,520 and but you've increased 40% year to date. 717 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,960 What on earth did you do? I think this is the biggest 718 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,120 question everyone's been waiting for in this whole episode. 719 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:30,120 What on earth did you do to make that, or what things have you 720 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,880 done, if I'm sure it's more than one, to make that happen? 721 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,960 Well, do you know, it's a really interesting question and without 722 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:39,680 being modest, I don't really know whether that is similar to 723 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,480 other brands, other businesses and e-commerce or whether it 724 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:45,320 books the trend. We've been very fortunate 725 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,320 because we've aggressively pushed Google this year more so 726 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,120 than last year. So that's really helped with the 727 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,080 numbers. We've also really benefited from 728 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,080 focusing on Saguno, our e-mail, if you like platform, which I 729 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,320 know you know very well. And indeed. 730 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,080 Yeah, We're getting some really good levels of engagement and 731 00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:06,640 conversion. And as I said at the outset, we 732 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,640 have a really strong repeat purchase. 733 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,520 So we're very lucky that our customers don't just buy us 734 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:14,120 once. They like the product, they like 735 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:17,240 the experience and then multiple times across the year buy for 736 00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,520 different occasions. So they will buy for birthdays, 737 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:25,680 for Christmas, but also for a thank you for having us for over 738 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:28,040 the summer holidays. I think there's three key 739 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,280 reasons why we're growing at such a fast rate. 740 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,960 The 1st is capitalizing on usage occasions. 741 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,400 So we've been really focused on summer holidays. 742 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:40,440 So we really do well in the summer where people take us to 743 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,080 their staycations, they take us camping and caravaning. 744 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,000 We're also getting probably at the height of summer, 5/10/15 745 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,880 inquiries a year. Are your kids safe to take on a 746 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,280 plane? And we're now starting to have 747 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,040 people take them on holiday. You know, even at Christmas. 748 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,960 There's a lovely family two years on the run they've now 749 00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:00,520 taken it to, I can't remember the name, it might be Myrtle 750 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,000 Beach or, or Florida. And it's this gorgeous beach and 751 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,400 all you'll see is 2 gorgeous kids with a toasted kit and the 752 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,920 sunset in. Love that which is like British 753 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,120 camping in like January and it's like let's. 754 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:12,960 Have some smalls quickly. And cheer ourselves up. 755 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:15,280 But yeah, yeah, Florida beach love it. 756 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:16,800 Yeah. And so we've. 757 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,639 Really been lucky in that front. Secondly, our mini kits are 758 00:34:20,639 --> 00:34:23,760 doing phenomenally well. So our mini kits are miniature 759 00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,800 versions of what we've done so well for the last four years. 760 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,320 There were lower price points, so they have a greater 761 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:33,159 opportunity for gifting. We're able to sell them to 762 00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,600 people who are using them, believe it or not, for party 763 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:41,440 bags and so they will buy them in multiples of 10/15/20, even 764 00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,199 30s. So when you've got an 8 year old 765 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,960 having a birthday party, they're buying thirty of these to put in 766 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,320 a bag as a thank you for coming to the birthday. 767 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,639 They get heavy discounts, so they're much more competitively 768 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,600 priced, but that's really helped to drive our sales and growth. 769 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,640 So, Johnny, you've said a few things now and I'm going to 770 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,040 emphasize this quite a lot. A lot of people look at other 771 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,280 brands and say, oh, sorry, A lot of brands look at customers and 772 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,160 say, do you know what? There's a customer and they've 773 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,680 got this question. They want this part of it, 774 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,760 whereas you've mentioned that the customer takes you with them 775 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,480 on a plane on holiday to Florida, which I think I think 776 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,920 it's an example of how you view the customer and therefore why 777 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,280 customers are so engaged with you, why lifetime value and 778 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:23,240 things are so high. And I say to people who are in 779 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:26,080 the agency, if we're working with a brand or a client at all, 780 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,920 imagine there's a boat we're holding 2 of 30 or 40 oars, 781 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,880 keeping that boat moving. So as soon as you see we're 782 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,400 helping you with your business and it's your thing, we're not 783 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,080 taking any ownership of what we're doing anymore. 784 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:40,200 So we're just naturally not going to care as much and we're 785 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,640 not going to do as good a job. And so I love the fact that you 786 00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,560 talk about your customers like that, but just one marketing 787 00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,320 idea. And this is where more marketing 788 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,800 stuff starts. If, if people are asking, can I 789 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:54,080 take it on a plane, Surely your 15 SKUs needs to become 16 SKUs 790 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,880 or, or whatever number you said earlier and, and do a plane safe 791 00:35:56,880 --> 00:35:58,760 kit and just put the same stuff in. 792 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:01,040 Surely that's surely that's what's needed here. 793 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,280 Johnny is like a This one's safe for cars, this one's safe for 794 00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:07,080 campings, this one's safe for nuclear power stations, this 795 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:11,320 one's safe for planes. In the nicest way possible, 796 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,200 Nick, you stick to SEO and I'll stick to MPD. 797 00:36:14,720 --> 00:36:15,960 All right, let's do that then, shall we? 798 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:18,360 Let's do that. Good idea, and I think we're 799 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,760 getting there, but not quite that way. 800 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,160 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, the way we do do it is 801 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,760 if somebody wants like a blue, like a blue one, we make sure 802 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,960 there's a way of shopping just all the blue products on this 803 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:29,960 store. But yeah, it makes a lot of 804 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,680 sense, makes a lot of sense. Anyway, let's let's draw down to 805 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:34,840 the last thing then. So we've mentioned wholesale, 806 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:38,360 how are you guys at the moment? You're based in the UK, we've 807 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,880 got the government and the previous governments have all 808 00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,560 been a bunch of morons and apologies that offends anyone 809 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,520 listening. But I think it's a unanimous 810 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,640 thing in the UK that we just don't like politics anymore and 811 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,640 haven't done since probably 2008. 812 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,440 Maybe, maybe some of us who remember the 70s, which I don't, 813 00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:56,560 also disliked politicians in the 70s. 814 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,840 Anyway, where are you got, it's a very difficult climate. 815 00:36:59,840 --> 00:37:02,040 Where are you guys going? Where's your focus, what you 816 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,560 want to achieve? Where are the opportunities for 817 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:04,720 a business like yours at the moment? 818 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:08,240 OK. So the opportunities for us 819 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:11,560 interesting enough are one follow the same plan. 820 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,320 So and our plan seems to be there's still a lot of the UK 821 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:17,720 market to go at. There's over 10 and a half 822 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:21,400 million families if not more and we're only really scratching the 823 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,160 surface. Wholesale is a massive 824 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:30,360 opportunity for us as well as gaining direct distribution in, 825 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,600 if you like, key usage arenas and by that I mean caravan 826 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:40,400 parks, centre parks, areas where our family model go and use the 827 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,600 kits and have fun and go on staycations too. 828 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,840 And fourthly, we're also actively speaking to small 829 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,200 independent, if you like staycation facilitators. 830 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:55,960 So I go on holiday quite a lot to Anglesey and there used to be 831 00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,840 a small family business that you could book your holiday through 832 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,080 and they had about 200 holiday homes. 833 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,960 Most of those holiday homes will be entertaining families 834 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,240 throughout the year, whether it's for a weekend or a week in 835 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:10,000 the summer. And we're trying to actively get 836 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,960 our kits placed in those holiday locations or have an opportunity 837 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,840 to purchase while they're there during the holiday and it can be 838 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,760 delivered and served and used and enjoyed outside of that. 839 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:27,280 We're also actively looking at expanding outside of the UK. 840 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:31,680 That said, so we dabbled in Ireland earlier this year and we 841 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:36,080 look to accelerate that next year with a view to also going 842 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:40,080 to maybe Scandinavia and possibly Holland. 843 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:43,080 Amazing, amazing. So you're, you're basically 844 00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,600 growing deeper in the, in the market you're currently in and 845 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,520 spreading out to more markets, which I think is a really smart 846 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,280 way to go. And obviously in this day and 847 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,360 age, like, you know, Brexit aside, you've got Shopify and 848 00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,720 things where you click a button and suddenly you've got euro 849 00:38:55,720 --> 00:38:58,120 functionality and that's it. And you can now sell in euros. 850 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,600 And you can tell you at the moment, like distributing those 851 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,360 places, it's not far the shelf life for products good enough. 852 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,040 There's options to have, have boots on the ground at some 853 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:07,680 point as well and products in warehouses there. 854 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,000 So I mean, it sounds, it sounds absolutely brilliant. 855 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:12,440 If this is my final, final question, and I've only asked 856 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,280 this a couple of times this year and I keep forgetting because 857 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,120 Byron's given me a hit list of great questions and this is one 858 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,320 of them. If you could go back to 2020 and 859 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,840 talk to yourself and your daughter and give yourself a 860 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,240 piece of advice back then in another way of asking the same 861 00:39:26,240 --> 00:39:29,160 question is what's the biggest lesson would you say you've 862 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,040 learnt that you weren't aware of then but it's been a really 863 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,880 difficult or really empowering lesson that you've learnt since 864 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:40,280 starting Toasted? Oh, Nick, or should I say Byron? 865 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:45,120 That's a really good question. OK, I'll probably answer it two 866 00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:48,520 ways. One of the earliest learnings in 867 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:54,000 the business and granted, I will just elaborate my background as 868 00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,520 a marketing director for 25 years. 869 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,120 So you would think that I'm pretty focused and switched on. 870 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,760 So when we launched the business, I launched it with a 871 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,480 printed box. The same box that we used today 872 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:08,520 and it had top right hand corner, a big white space so we 873 00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,880 could label the address label on. 874 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,720 And we were just posting them out direct to people. 875 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,680 No point during the launch of that business. 876 00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,360 Do they ever think this would also become a gifting 877 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,600 opportunity? And within three months, we 878 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,960 started to get customer complaints in a nice way saying, 879 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,680 oh, I've bought this and I've tried to peel the address label 880 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,280 off to give it as a birthday gift and it's ruined the box. 881 00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,720 Can I have them? And of course, at that moment 882 00:40:34,720 --> 00:40:37,760 it's Eureka. It's like, oh shit, I forgot 883 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,200 that there's an opportunity on the back of this self purchased 884 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,440 product. So that's the biggest mistake I 885 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:46,720 think we made early on and a lesson in life. 886 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,040 It was about some of the points we made before about 887 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,160 understanding the usage occasions and the opportunities 888 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,840 that that one product or concept derives to and from. 889 00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,880 So that's the first. The second is probably, and this 890 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:03,520 is the harder one, if you were growing a business and it's an 891 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,080 e-commerce business, it is really difficult to grow the 892 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:11,840 business at the level we are and still bootstrap the business and 893 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:15,000 naively and it's not naive, that's probably the wrong word. 894 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:17,840 And I didn't want to take out with investments. 895 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,480 And at this point five years in, I'm still on the fence. 896 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,120 Do I don't tie, but to keep growing at 40% and go to all the 897 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,560 different markets and different usage occasions, that becomes a 898 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:32,000 point in any entrepreneur stroke e-commerce business where you 899 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,880 ask the question, do I need to take outside investment to grow 900 00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,840 faster and better? And that's probably the second 901 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,080 biggest learning that I've not really come to terms of as yet, 902 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,560 but I'm conscious and aware of that decision that needs to be 903 00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,160 made. That's amazing. 904 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:46,680 Thank you so much for your humility on it. 905 00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:47,960 Like, they're both really good points. 906 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:50,040 And I think you just don't know what you don't know. 907 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,240 And it's not until someone says, I'm trying to do this with your 908 00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,920 products, you're like, what are you doing that for? 909 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:55,400 Well, hang on a minute. It doesn't make sense. 910 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,040 Yeah, we should. We should cater for that. 911 00:41:57,040 --> 00:41:58,400 That's a really important part of this. 912 00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:01,040 But Johnny, I mean, thank you so much for joining us again today. 913 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:02,800 And we're probably going to get you back in the next year or 914 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:03,960 two. I want to, I want to hear how 915 00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,040 it's going. And we'd love to hear what 916 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,160 happens with the investment. Like that's the next big, next 917 00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:09,320 big challenge you're aware of. So yeah, thank you so much. 918 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:11,240 OK. Well, look, thank you very much, 919 00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:12,360 Nick. It's been a pleasure and keep 920 00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,240 doing the good work you're doing with your agency as well. 921 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,000 Thank you so much. And if ever listening at home, 922 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,880 if you haven't already hit subscribe, definitely tune into 923 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,320 our e-mail list as well as go to wwspodcast.com. 924 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:25,240 We had to change it when we moved to Shopify because kind of 925 00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:27,160 Shopify in the domain and we were winning with shopify.com, 926 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:29,320 which does forwards. But yeah, go inside to our 927 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,040 newsletter. And also if you want to go check 928 00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,480 out Toasted as well, Johnny, what's the URL if they want to 929 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:38,120 go check out the the website? It's toast, hyphen, d.co.uk. 930 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:40,840 Awesome. And if you can't spell toast, 931 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,080 there's bigger issues in trying to order one of Johnny's kids. 932 00:42:43,280 --> 00:42:45,440 So thank you so much. And you've got ChatGPT that can 933 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:46,960 find it as well. But say yeah, thanks so much, 934 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:48,360 Johnny. Thanks for tuning in everybody. 935 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,880 And we hope you to join us again on Tuesday for next Tuesday tea 936 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:52,160 break talks. Hope to see you there. 937 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,320 Black Friday and Cyber Monday are coming in fast. 938 00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:56,680 Is your store ready? You need your marketing dialed 939 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,600 in before the big rush. And our sponsor Saguna is 940 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,360 everything you need in one place from emails and pop ups to 941 00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,680 reviews and more. Saguna's suite of tools is built 942 00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:06,720 exclusively for Shopify, so everything works seamlessly in 943 00:43:06,720 --> 00:43:09,560 your store. And right now we're code WWS 20. 944 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,800 You get 20% off your first three months. 945 00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:13,560 So don't wait until the chaos starts. 946 00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,680 Get your Black Friday and Cyber Monday marketing ready today at 947 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:21,200 saguno.com/winning with shopifythatssaguno.com/winning 948 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:21,720 with Shopify.