1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,120 So hello and welcome to another episode, the Winning with 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,280 Shopify podcast and hello to our live audience. 3 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,880 I hope you guys are well. I'm from the UK, which is why I 4 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:11,240 sound quite funny and I've got 2 absolute Titans of e-commerce 5 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,000 and subscriptions here with me. We've got John from Battle Box. 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:15,720 John, welcome to the show. Good to have you back. 7 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:17,960 Third time is it now? Third time, yeah. 8 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:19,960 Amazing. And I've got a very, very big 9 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,640 question for you in a second. We've also got Ben. 10 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,760 First time we've met, first time good ranches. 11 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,000 See you there as well and found us. 12 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,480 So yeah, super excited to have you guys on. 13 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:29,400 I'm going to dive straight in. We always start with big 14 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,240 questions. So John, I'm going to start with 15 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,160 a big question for you. How have you guys at Battle Box 16 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:38,280 built such a big multi $1,000,000 business that is 70% 17 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:41,160 customer subscriptions? That's a, that's a great, great 18 00:00:41,160 --> 00:00:43,760 question. It's tell me everything. 19 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:48,560 Yeah, well when we started in 2015, we only had, we were 20 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:51,040 talking earlier about that single skew single product. 21 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,840 We just had one product and it was subscription only. 22 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:56,960 We didn't offer anything on A1 type capacity. 23 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,240 We we also naivety we had launched on a very niche 24 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,280 platform. We're on Shopify now, but we 25 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,480 were on this platform called Crate Joy and they just didn't 26 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,600 have the technical capabilities to even have one time products. 27 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:12,320 So it was the business rules. Oh, I can hear myself now. 28 00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:14,560 Yeah, there we are. The the business rules of that 29 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,360 platform set the rules that we only had one product, it was 30 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,160 subscription only. It wasn't until we wanted to 31 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,040 scale and grow further that we Brad the one time inner into the 32 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:25,840 mix. Amazing. 33 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,440 And we're going to cover some of those regrets of expansion you 34 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,720 were telling me a minute ago. Sure, cover those in a in a few 35 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,320 minutes as well. But I mean, Ben, you guys have 36 00:01:32,320 --> 00:01:36,080 got such an amazing business. How have you guys built a 63 + 37 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:39,360 1000 subscriber base of customers in such a short space 38 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:41,200 of time? I like to see it this way. 39 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:46,000 If I could do it, anybody can. I mean, we had no, I had no 40 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,800 e-commerce experience, no industry experience. 41 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:54,560 We're an online meat company and, and you know, we just, we, 42 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,160 we had to get scrappy and figure it out, but we did know this, 43 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,120 the trick isn't to get them to buy one time. 44 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,720 It's how do you get the repeat purchase? 45 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:09,440 So, so for us, we actually, I mean, you know, everybody says 46 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:11,080 subscription, subscription, subscription. 47 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,640 And the good thing about meat is people eat it everyday, you 48 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,000 know? And so we, we knew that for us, 49 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,240 it really came down to the product has to be better than 50 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,560 what they can get at the grocery store because it's a, it's a 51 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,880 commodity. And with something so simple, 52 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,440 yes, convenience is 1 factor. But we knew from the beginning 53 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:41,480 that, that our quality had to be better. 54 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:44,520 So when they get that first purchase, they eat it and they 55 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,480 go, Oh yeah, I want to, I want to keep doing that. 56 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:53,240 I want to get that. And so John Lasseter, the Pixar 57 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:57,800 creator and he wrote in his book quality is our business plan and 58 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,680 the the book's Creativity Inc, amazing book for any founder 59 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,760 have I mean really for anybody, but he wrote that at the very 60 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,480 beginning. Quality is our business plan and 61 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:15,200 we really took that into the business of, you know, we, you 62 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,840 can trick people into buying things, but if you don't have a 63 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,520 quality product, they're not going to subscribe and they're 64 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,600 not going to keep buying and. I feel so many brands rely 65 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,120 someone who's in the tech space and agency space, they rely so 66 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,440 heavily on tech to try and give that nudge, that extra e-mail, 67 00:03:31,440 --> 00:03:34,200 that 20% offer set becomes a no brainer. 68 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:36,600 But I love the fact you guys have gone actually let's in a 69 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,120 way almost ignore all of that. If it's a good product, they'll 70 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,360 want it again. And as you say, the products it 71 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:43,640 it runs out, you know, either goes out of date or you've 72 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,520 you've eaten it, you need more after that which. 73 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,480 I think it's just the sustainability of of your brand 74 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,240 and product because that's how you're building it. 75 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,960 You're making it about superior product. 76 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,280 I love that. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 77 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:57,800 And and John, let's go back to the early days. 78 00:03:57,840 --> 00:04:01,920 So you guys, you won product on subscription, you've expanded a 79 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,400 lot and we were talking about the pros and cons of this a 80 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:05,560 minute ago. Why don't you share with us 81 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,040 what's that journey like? Why did you expand and what are 82 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:09,920 some of the lessons you guys have learnt over that time? 83 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,320 Sure. So yeah, so in 20/17/2018 we we 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,600 migrated to Shopify to then have the one time capacity. 85 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,920 Welcome to the Call Club. Yeah, we finally joined the, the 86 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:27,200 issue was not even an issue. We've never really allowed the 87 00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,040 the curated kits, the subscription box to ever be 88 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:31,640 available in a one time capacity. 89 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,480 So we've continued to kind of own the narrative on supply and 90 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,960 demand and and membership. So it's only been one time 91 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,200 capacity products that make up a kit that, that we've offered. 92 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,080 And you know, as we've kind of matured and we've said, OK, the 93 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,680 membership is, is great. The membership is the core 94 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,200 business. The membership's the lion's 95 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,840 share of the revenue. It's past the point of 96 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,320 exponential growth, right. We're we're still growing a 97 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,920 couple points, you know, month over month. 98 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:06,240 It's it's still nice, it's still great, but it's not the 99 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,960 exponential days are are done right. 100 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,520 We've had a certain saturation unless we change fundamentally 101 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,200 the the membership offering. So at that point, how do we 102 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,480 still have that exponential growth? 103 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,800 How do we still scale significant revenue? 104 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,440 And, and the answer is, is additional channels, whether 105 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:29,280 it's in marketplaces or marketplace live shopping like 106 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:30,840 what not. You know, right now we have, 107 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:34,440 we're, we're doing demos, we're live selling on what not on the 108 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:36,760 other side of this this convention. 109 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,640 So cool. And you guys, whenever I talk to 110 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,400 you, there's always something fun, exciting, but as ACEO, 111 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,480 you're making sure it's also feeding the bottom line and 112 00:05:44,640 --> 00:05:46,200 revenues going up, profits going up. 113 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,000 So yeah, if anyone who's here hasn't seen, they're literally 114 00:05:49,000 --> 00:05:51,320 running, as John says, live shopping right now on what not, 115 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:55,000 which is awesome. Some of the stats I've got here, 116 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,600 Ben, about your business, I think are incredible. 55% of 117 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,360 subscribers are still active at one year, 40% are still active 118 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,600 at over 2 years. How do you, beyond just the 119 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,560 great product you mentioned, how do you build that loyalty that 120 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,480 trusts that commitment from those customers because those 121 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,760 stats are phenomenal? Yeah, I'm going to give more to 122 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,240 this answer, but I am going to go back to the quality has to be 123 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,400 there. And, and, and, and again, that's 124 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,880 been that was our whole messaging was better than the 125 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,840 grocery store ditched the grocery store. 126 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:34,160 And, and honestly, like we, I mean, we grew, gosh, we grew 127 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,880 really fast when we when we launched online, didn't start 128 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,760 online. We actually started, I started 129 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,000 selling the company selling meat out of the back of a truck in a 130 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,720 parking lot, like and, and then went from one truck to two 131 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:50,600 trucks to 5:00 to 10:00. And then over by year three, we 132 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,300 had about 20 trucks going around the country doing these like pop 133 00:06:53,300 --> 00:06:57,560 up shops. COVID happened and we realized 134 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:02,760 we've got to get online. So we, we, we figured out how to 135 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,520 shipping perishable items is very hard. 136 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,400 And I, I told you this before the before the show, had I known 137 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:13,360 how hard it was, I probably would have never done it. 138 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,760 But we reached a point where we were, we were just too far in. 139 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,560 And there was, we either, you know, make it or we don't. 140 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:26,840 But we we knew how to sell meat and we knew how to do it in 141 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:31,720 person with those pop up shops. You know, it was 180° turn 142 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,120 launching online. And so we actually came to the 143 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:42,160 Sub Summit the very first year that we were we had our toe in 144 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,520 the water trying to ship, but we were still doing all the trucks 145 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:47,200 and the trucks were making money online was just losing money. 146 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:52,680 And so we came to Sub Summit that first year and learned so 147 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:55,720 much about subscription. Again, we didn't know anything 148 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,400 about e-commerce, We didn't know anything about subscription. 149 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:03,840 And so this, this conference really has a special place for 150 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,640 in my heart and for our business because at the time, I think we 151 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,720 brought our almost our whole staff, which was like 7 people. 152 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,360 And we like, we just all came like and, and learned so much 153 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,480 and took it back. But the biggest thing we took, 154 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,200 took back was the importance of subscription, the importance of 155 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,280 getting that recurring revenue and, and, and not just getting 156 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:30,120 the sale, but continuing to nurture the relationship, you 157 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:35,679 know, because once you get them to buy too many, too many brands 158 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:37,760 get the sale and then just move on. 159 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:42,400 And you know, we, it, it is a relationship and they're, you 160 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,600 know, they're, they're our customers and they could easily 161 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,920 be a competitor's customer. So, you know, we want to, we 162 00:08:48,920 --> 00:08:52,440 have to provide value. Like I said, the the product 163 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,320 quality has to be there, but we have to find value beyond just 164 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,640 the product. And we do that through, through 165 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:07,080 education, through recipes, through industry news and, and 166 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,040 you know, have a, a regular cadence of giving, giving more 167 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,440 than just the meat in the box. Yeah, I love that. 168 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,360 And I you've touched on something that's really close to 169 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:19,520 my heart as well, which is the the fact that so many brands 170 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,920 focus and we're an acquisition agency. 171 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,720 Our clients focus so much on acquiring customers and then we 172 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:28,160 look at their PNL and they'll sort of split it by recurring 173 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,240 orders or existing customers versus new ones. 174 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,240 And we're like, what the heck are you guys doing? 175 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:35,320 And one bit of advice I'd give to any brand at the moment is 176 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:39,200 like set an LTV metric and make sure you beat it, whatever it 177 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:40,480 is. It's like we need to have this 178 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,720 many repeat orders, this much revenue per customer per year 179 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:45,240 and suddenly our job becomes easier. 180 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,320 We can scale faster now because we know acquiring a customer and 181 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,000 I mean you guys are phenomenal at this as well. 182 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:52,000 Yeah. So something, something else 183 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,400 that Ben said that I think is very, very important. 184 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,600 And I I want to bring it back to that because it's something that 185 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,480 we do as well. And it's, it's paramount. 186 00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:04,000 It's providing the value outside of just the physical product. 187 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,120 So you know, Ben was saying that through education, through 188 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,000 content, we we do the same thing. 189 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:13,000 Like that is a major focus. We want to make that 190 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:18,040 relationship so much more than just the product. 191 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,160 Having a good product obviously matters, but taking to the next 192 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,480 level when you have that relationship. 193 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,680 Yost have just launched something that is absolutely 194 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:29,280 game changing. 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Head to yost.com to learn more 206 00:11:06,560 --> 00:11:09,000 and grab your discount. I mean, you guys took it to an 207 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:11,320 absolute extreme, didn't you? And phone Netflix and we're 208 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,080 like, can we have a show and tell us about the tell about the 209 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,160 show and how that engages outside of everything else it's. 210 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:22,120 Yeah, so we had a, a Netflix show premiere July 4th weekend 211 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:26,760 in 2020. It's somehow greenlit. 212 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:30,040 It's the entire season, all 8 episodes is basically a 213 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:32,640 commercial for us testing gear to determine. 214 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,320 It's it's cool. I've watched in a battle. 215 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,720 Yeah, it's really cool. And it's, it's performed well 216 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,360 enough where they've kept it, they've kept it on there, you 217 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:45,080 know, 667 years later. It's it's still a post purchase 218 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:50,200 survey still calls out five 6% of our net new comes comes from 219 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,760 the the the the season. So good. 220 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:54,800 So I mean, how many brands imagine they could have their? 221 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:55,560 Own. Well, I wish you. 222 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:57,040 It's not like you can replicate that. 223 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:58,160 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 224 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:01,200 How I'm not the host, but how did that come to be? 225 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,120 Did you pursue it or was it just? 226 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,320 Happenstance. So High Noon Entertainment they 227 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:11,000 were the feather in their caps. Fixer upper and cake boss. 228 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,360 Yep. So they, they reached out to us, 229 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,760 pitched us, hey, we have this concept, we have some money from 230 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,520 History Channel. We want to film and we'll out 231 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,280 date myself here. A sizzle reel, which you would 232 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,440 do before a pilot like doesn't even exist anymore. 233 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,520 And they did a sizzle reel. History Channel sat on it for 234 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,520 six months, passed on it. We took it to they took it to 235 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:34,040 Discovery. Discovery sat on it for 6-7 236 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,360 months, passed on it. They met with Netflix and 237 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,800 Netflix said, yeah, we'll do it. And we want right of refusal of 238 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,600 seven seasons and this is a Netflix original. 239 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,720 We want to start filming in two months. 240 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:50,280 Wow. And then we got 120 page legal 241 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,400 agreement with Netflix. We're like our normal lawyer 242 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:56,280 isn't this isn't a fit for them. We found an entertainment 243 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:57,680 lawyer. Out if only Claude would have 244 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:59,560 been around. Seriously. 245 00:13:00,560 --> 00:13:04,400 Yeah, Did not. Was not a thing and we we spent 246 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,320 an embarrassing amount with that lawyer redlined the whole thing 247 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:11,440 sent it back to Netflix Couple weeks later Netflix replied back 248 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:14,960 15 minutes later saying we apologize if we like miss set 249 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,040 any expectations. There's no there's no redlining. 250 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,120 There's no yeah, this is this is the agreement. 251 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,360 Take it or leave it. So we signed it, but yeah, it 252 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,480 was, it was. Germany when the lawyers ruined 253 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,440 the fun, that's what in the finance director. 254 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:27,560 Those are the annoying things in life. 255 00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,080 I think that, but I mean it's, it's amazing you guys have done 256 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,160 that. I mean in your business spend, 257 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,960 if what, what do you guys do outside of products, outside of 258 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,360 marketing? Do do you guys give people 259 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:38,920 advice on what else to cook with the products you send? 260 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:41,920 And do you do collaborations with other brands, that kind of 261 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:44,760 stuff? Yeah, I mean, I mean, there's 262 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,040 like playbook 101 things of, you know, collaborating with 263 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,240 influencers, collaborating with mom fluencers in, you know, in, 264 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:59,040 in our space. The it's just the way it is 265 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:03,680 still in the US, about 70% of the of the shopping still comes 266 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,920 from the female, even though, you know, early on we thought we 267 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,200 would have much more of a male demographic because, you know, 268 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:18,440 meat and grilling and and stuff. But, but you know, we, we, we 269 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:24,320 quickly learned that men like to eat, but it's more women that 270 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:31,000 are still buying. And which my point here is this, 271 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,640 as soon as you can learn who your target audience is and, and 272 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:43,040 it is most brands, your audience is not everyone, even in a 273 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:45,280 category like ours, which is meat. 274 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,360 So you would think, oh, it's anyone who eats meat. 275 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,320 Still not true. There's a, there's a absolute 276 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:55,720 target audience. And for for us, it's 35 to 48 277 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:03,160 year old moms like that's like that's like our, you know, sweet 278 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,120 spot, biggest persona that we see when we go after that, when 279 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:12,280 we find audiences. And so when we started, we 280 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:18,440 actually went, we, we really grew the business, I mean, 281 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:26,000 exponentially the in 22 when we started online fully, we, we 282 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,920 2223 and 24. I'm about to blow your mind. 283 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:36,640 We had no meta ads at all. And to build an e-commerce 284 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:38,760 business without no Meta, no Google. 285 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:40,280 Unheard of. It's unheard of. 286 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,480 It's amazing. And yeah, so we really leaned in 287 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:52,040 to podcasts and yeah, podcasts and, and influencers with 288 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:56,240 podcasts and, and, and what we found is especially when you're 289 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:01,000 a new brand, you know, you, you don't, no one knows you. 290 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:07,440 Like right now we have I think 25,000 Trustpilot reviews like 291 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,320 with an average of 4.8 which is. I mean well done like that's 292 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:14,000 that's not easily achieved. Thank you. 293 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,760 We were talking about it on the plane here. 294 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,120 It was like, you know, we should put that SAT on our website. 295 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,800 I could share we work very closely with trust for that. 296 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:23,760 I could share some case studies that would convince you to do it 297 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:24,480 tomorrow. Yeah. 298 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:26,640 No, I know. Well, yeah. 299 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,520 And and you know, our largest competitor, which is number one 300 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:34,400 in the space, they have 1800. And so, so that's AI mean that's 301 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,680 a huge deal for us. But where was I, what was the 302 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:37,800 question? Where was I going with that? 303 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,680 Retaining customers talking about the things that aren't the 304 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,320 normal products I think was the question. 305 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,400 Yeah, yeah, I lost my train of thought talking about Trustpilot 306 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:46,720 reviews not being on the website. 307 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,400 It's impressive though the amount of the amount of reviews 308 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,200 you have on. Trust box, we went a different 309 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:57,960 route again. Getting people to buy meat 310 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,760 online is not the norm. Yeah, yeah, COVID helped a lot, 311 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,119 but it's still a a pretty big barrier to entry there because 312 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,640 it's perishable and it's just not. 313 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:09,880 Super normalized as well, which you would in a supermarket. 314 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:18,720 And so we borrowed the influence of podcasters, influencers, and 315 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:24,000 I'll keep saying influencers with podcasts like, and, and 316 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,040 because, and, and not the really, really big ones, 317 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,320 honestly, like they, they get kind of tuned out. 318 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,720 But it's like that the, the, you know, big enough to move the 319 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,040 needle, but not so big that they're crazy expensive. 320 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,760 And the people that are listening to those influencers, 321 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,880 those podcasters, they believe anything they say. 322 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,200 That's why they're listening. And you know, they're, and so 323 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:54,000 when they say, Hey, good, good ranchers, just ship me a, a huge 324 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,480 box of meat. And it's amazing. 325 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,520 You could have it too. Like we, we, even though they 326 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,720 don't the, they don't know us as a brand, but we get immediate 327 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,920 trust through that, through those voices. 328 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,160 So that's how we absolutely built the business from you know 329 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:16,480 00 subscribers to the 63,000 monthly that we have now. 330 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:25,160 And I mean, we just started like having Meta in Google be any 331 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:31,400 like significant portion toward the end of last year for the for 332 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:33,200 like literally the first time. Yeah, yeah. 333 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,640 And I love the contrast in both the brands actually where you 334 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,000 guys have gone, like how do we get this message out to as many 335 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,560 people as possible as fast as possible and just let's just do 336 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:42,200 some big stuff. Let's take a risk and see what 337 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:44,080 happens. You guys have gone grass roots 338 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,240 and kind of like work our way up. 339 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,000 It's, it's just so interesting seeing how you both created such 340 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,840 successful subscription businesses on the same thing 341 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:52,800 that Ben's talking about with knowing your customer and 342 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:55,240 talking to customer and nailing down that target group. 343 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,120 How have you guys achieved that specifically in the subscription 344 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:00,800 space, like nailing who subscribes the ones that don't? 345 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,280 Yeah, so. It's, it's, I would have guessed 346 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,640 before chatting today that we had a very similar demographic, 347 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,520 but it's not OK. So we're you know, sweet spot 348 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:15,760 is, is 35 to 55 male household income 1:20 to 1:30. 349 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,880 It's 90% of our purchases are men. 350 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,000 And so out of that 10% that are female purchases, 50% of them 351 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,600 are purchasing it for a male in their life. 352 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:31,320 So it's, it's a wildly, wildly different number, but it, it 353 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:33,160 matters, right? You want to target the right 354 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:37,520 people. I was actually on a call earlier 355 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:44,160 earlier today, just a, a, a, a video call and we're we're 356 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,920 shopping some new banking partners like full service and 357 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:49,880 watch out some. Might be here, Yeah. 358 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,400 Sorry, there's a back door if you but they. 359 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,560 They were asking some questions to better understand the 360 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,760 business and they were OK If we asked, you know, how would you, 361 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,600 if, if we wanted to double membership by the end of the 362 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,880 year, like, what would that look like? 363 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:10,280 And I, I told them, you know. Respectfully, it's that's 364 00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:13,960 wouldn't be the move because we're hyper focused on our 365 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:17,920 demographic and we start kind of going a little open and getting 366 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:19,600 people that maybe aren't part of it. 367 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:21,440 The LTV is not going to be the same. 368 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,040 The CAC might look might look the same, but at the end of the 369 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,800 day, if the LTV isn't there, it changes the economics. 370 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,160 So, and I think it's so. Important playing that long 371 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:31,560 game. I mean, you've both been in 372 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,280 business long enough now to go Actually I'm looking 5 to 10 373 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,560 years ahead now, not just how do we pay the bills tomorrow. 374 00:20:37,120 --> 00:20:39,960 And I think so many business sometimes get stuck in that loop 375 00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,920 then of like we need to do a sale to get enough orders in to 376 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:44,400 pay the bills. But then we know we've lowered 377 00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:45,840 our margins. That's creating a tomorrow 378 00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:49,080 problem with our bank balance and taking that long approach. 379 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,200 Again, going down the route of quality and really understanding 380 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,480 that, that target group, I think so important. 381 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,360 Back to you, Ben, now you know who your target audience is. 382 00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:01,960 How do you cater marketing and the way you position the 383 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,960 subscription model, how do you communicate that to your 384 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,320 audience based on who they are? Yeah, so. 385 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:14,880 Unlike you guys and we had, we really thought about when, when 386 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,120 we, when we first started about being subscription only. 387 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,720 But we went the approach of we want them to subscribe, but 388 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,520 we'll give them the one time option. 389 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,400 But you know, we, we want to put some friction between there and, 390 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:34,240 and so we, we, we charged $25 more for one time purchase. 391 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,520 Nice. And we're like, we would rather 392 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:42,520 they subscribe, but if they pay the extra $25 fine, that's. 393 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,680 You know. Better margin, Yeah, we're not 394 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,720 going to say no, right. And especially you know, in, in 395 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,840 our, in our, in our in our business, you have to give first 396 00:21:50,840 --> 00:21:54,560 time discounts. And so, so we kind of saw it as 397 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:59,640 like a, as kind of a, a, a net positive of if they do the one 398 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,320 time again, we know they're going to love it. 399 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,760 And, and then and if they're willing to pay more for it, OK. 400 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,360 But, and so we went out that way. 401 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:15,440 And then and, and just by happenstance, 80% of of our new, 402 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:19,640 you know, of our customers just subscribed right out the gate. 403 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:26,880 And so, but now we're, we've started, you know, implementing 404 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:31,560 more, we're actually running an AB test right now on and the, 405 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:36,840 the $25, you know, just delta between one time purchase. 406 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:42,320 Some people on our team keep saying maybe we should just test 407 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,600 running subscription only. That's, that's the only offer. 408 00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,360 I've, I've not greenlit that yet. 409 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,440 But what we're doing right now is we're running an AB test on 410 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,720 15% increase for a subscription, I mean for a one time purchase 411 00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,360 and a 20% increase versus the $25, Yeah, yeah. 412 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:03,480 See how much more they're. Willing to pay to not. 413 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:05,320 Subscribe. I like it, which I think is 414 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,520 smart. The thing that drives me mad 415 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:09,280 sometimes when working with brands is when they just go 416 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,200 like, we've changed that and it's like, why? 417 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:14,080 And it's like, well, we should offer 10% off a subscribe and 418 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,200 save. And it's like, and the whole, 419 00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,280 it's what I've just written in my notes. 420 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,880 They got the fact that you guys sat down and thought about it. 421 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,000 You were like, we've got a clear goal and it's subscription. 422 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:25,000 So offering just like a random 510% off the subscription, 423 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,840 clearly from your point of view, it devalues the subscription and 424 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,560 we're just making it up, whereas actually we don't want them to 425 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:33,240 do that. So let's just make it so stupid 426 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,040 not to that this is the value you're getting. 427 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:38,880 So the subscription itself is not discounted as the customer 428 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,000 sees it. It's so simple and so smart. 429 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:42,280 You guys obviously thought this through. 430 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:44,440 Yeah, well, and. Then and then also the reason we 431 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:50,480 did $25 versus 10% because it comes about our, our, our AOV is 432 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:57,800 200 is like 200 on the nose. So, but we realized $25 sounds 433 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:02,080 like more than 10% to a lot of people 'cause, you know, 25 is 434 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:07,800 bigger than 10. But again, that was, that was 435 00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:09,960 years ago. And you know, like I said, we're 436 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,600 running that test now. I, I, I'd be remiss if I didn't 437 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,720 say this. We, a lesson we learned the very 438 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:22,640 hard way is we looked at subscription management 439 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:31,000 platforms as an expense and thought, right, that's it's so 440 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,000 expensive. And as we continue to grow and 441 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,880 scale it only like they're going to be, we're going to be paying 442 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:41,320 them $1,000,000 a year like. And that was one of the biggest 443 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,760 mistakes we made by seeing that as an expense and not as a value 444 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:47,920 driver. So we tried to build it 445 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,760 ourselves. You know, one of our developers 446 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,320 is like, I can write a code that it's just a script and it's 447 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,680 just, you know, and I see where this is. 448 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:56,320 Going and we. Yeah. 449 00:24:56,320 --> 00:25:03,120 We, we, we missed a lot of recurring revenue those first 450 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:09,800 that first 18 months. And when we finally realized 451 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,720 what was going on, the beautiful thing is we were getting so many 452 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:14,520 new customers, it was masking it. 453 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:20,960 But when we, when we realized we were all, we were, I mean, we 454 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,120 were getting 80% subscribing, but we were only processing like 455 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:30,200 45%. I know because of bugs and 456 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,600 issues. Again, maybe if you're a better 457 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,720 developer than my team, you could do it yourself. 458 00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,120 But I would say anybody starting out, don't look at subscription 459 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,240 management soft. There's a, there's a lot of, 460 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:42,480 there's a lot of really great ones. 461 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:45,920 And you can't look at that as an expense. 462 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,080 It's absolutely. It's a value. 463 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,360 Yeah, yeah. And getting that wrong knock on 464 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,240 effect on revenue could be massive and. 465 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,520 And, and the platform you're on as well, you know, we just like 466 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,000 you guys, when we started, Shopify was not what it is 467 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,640 today. And, and you know, even though 468 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,720 we were small, we were like, we had ambition to be big. 469 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,600 So we're like, no, we need something better than Shopify. 470 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,000 We went through the same thing we we thought we were going to 471 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,520 build our own and we quickly realized that was not not the 472 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,000 answer and went to Shopify and and recharge. 473 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:22,440 I mean, we still. See it now when we we walk into 474 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,040 brands that like using Magento or something and they're like, 475 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,360 this is our development team. I'm like team, you got a 476 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,160 development team. I was like, have you heard of 477 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,120 Claude? Like Claude is your development 478 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:32,800 team and you can write code for you and you put it straight in 479 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,120 Shopify and bang, it's done. And they were like, yeah, yeah, 480 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,160 we're migrating from Magento 1 to Magento 2 is the classic. 481 00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,720 And it's just, I think let's not go too far down the tech Rd. 482 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:42,800 because we could talk about that load. 483 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,000 One thing I do want to ask both of you, I'm going to start with 484 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,320 you, John, is obviously we're talking about growing a 485 00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,880 subscriber base and that's fantastic. 486 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,920 How do you deal with churn both? How do you prevent it and what 487 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,680 do you do after the churns happened and I? 488 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,640 Think you and I chatted about this on on an episode possibly 489 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:03,720 so so we we care obviously a lot about churn retention way we 490 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,640 were caring about it before it was even cool, right? 491 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,000 Like pre, pre COVID where everyone was only focused on 492 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,680 acquisition. So we do a lot, it's just part 493 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,440 of our, our business rules and how the business was built. 494 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:23,000 So just so many touches constantly testing stuff because 495 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,280 it's it's so much easier to keep a customer than than than get a 496 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,800 new one. I mean, spoiler alert, Meta is 497 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,120 their their CPM and cat costs are are not going to go down 498 00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:37,440 next year. News, news flash, it is going to 499 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,240 be Meta's going to charge you more than they did this year. 500 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:41,880 So I think it, I think it's huge. 501 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,960 I think spending time and, and testing stuff and, and, and just 502 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,040 coming to the realization that you've got in this customer, 503 00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:53,560 you've gotten the hard part. Now, if you have a good product 504 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,760 and and and a good experience, like spend the effort on that 505 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:00,320 because they're going to stick around this episode of winning. 506 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,240 Shopify is brought to you by Tax Cloud. 507 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,560 It's the busiest time of year for e-commerce. 508 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,840 Your stores buzzing, orders flying in, and growth is at an 509 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:08,520 all time high. But with all that momentum can 510 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,320 come new sales tax exposure that you might not even see coming. 511 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,480 That's why now is the perfect time to take a closer look at 512 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:16,960 how you're handling sales tax and make sure your business is 513 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,320 set up for the growth that you've earned. 514 00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:20,880 Tax Cloud is our trusted partner for sales tax compliance. 515 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,120 Built for growing Shopify brands. 516 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,240 They handle regulations, filings and ongoing compliance working 517 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,840 directly with the states on your behalf across the US so you can 518 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,480 stay focused on running your store. 519 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,800 They've got a five star rating in the Shopify App Store and 520 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,200 listeners winning the Shopify get free migration on boarding 521 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,640 when you make the switch. To apply for that and learn 522 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,320 more, you can go to taxcloud.com/winning. 523 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:46,280 That's taxcloud.com/winning and when you, when you do a lose a 524 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,160 customer, it was a very sad day. Do you guys reach out and talk 525 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,920 to them? Do you try and do some sort of 526 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,520 win back afterwards to go even though we've lost them? 527 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:55,360 If we can find out why, there might be something we can 528 00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,640 change. Or yeah. 529 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,200 So, so this is super wild to say that we have this because we're, 530 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,120 you know, pretty much just a traditional D2C company. 531 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,960 So we have a full time guy, his name is Patrick. 532 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,680 He literally his full time job is calling churned customers. 533 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,680 We did a lot of testing. The sweet spot is 90 to 120 days 534 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,440 after they leave which was not my theory. 535 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,920 My theory was first couple of weeks we tried from immediate 536 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,920 all the way through a year and 90 to 120 days was a sweet spot. 537 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,480 He calls them, you know, I'll say it here. 538 00:29:30,480 --> 00:29:34,080 The truth is it starts off as a customer service call, better 539 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,160 understanding. And he's documenting the reasons 540 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,360 they left, what their experience was. 541 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,040 Now it has to pay for itself. So it based on what they say. 542 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,360 It then turns into a sales call where he's positioning a offer 543 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:50,720 to them to bring them back, to reactivate them live while he's 544 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,120 talking to them. So smart. 545 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:54,160 Yeah, it's wild. I think that we have a full time 546 00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,640 phone sales win back guy. Plus you don't have to. 547 00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:57,680 Do the whole sales journey again. 548 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,640 They've been a subscriber. They know it, you just need to. 549 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,600 Work out what, what was the issue? 550 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,320 Let me fix it and and you're back here. 551 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:05,400 It's amazing. And Ben, how do you guys deal 552 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,560 with churn? Avoid churn in the 1st place. 553 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,680 Yeah. The the the easiest thing is to 554 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:17,480 this sounds revelatory, but to to stop it before it happens. 555 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,160 You know, it's like AI mean because at that point it's a 556 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,640 it's a sever. And, and again, you know, we, we 557 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,600 don't have a nobody has 100%, you know, success rate of that. 558 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:34,200 But if you can, you know, if you can predict before it happens. 559 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:40,520 And so again, part of our, so we use Shopify and recharge and, 560 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,840 and recharge has a really great feature, a a lot of great 561 00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,880 features for churn. And, and you know, once you 562 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:53,280 learn, once you learn, OK, where, where are people most 563 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,960 likely to churn? And you know, again, for us, 564 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:58,720 it's food that they're ordering that they're buying. 565 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,800 And you know, what are the reasons they're turning or what 566 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:01,880 are the reasons they're cancelling? 567 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:07,600 And, and you know, yeah, what's the, what's the number one 568 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,600 reason? And for us, we looked about two 569 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,720 years ago and the number one reason was lack of 570 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:17,000 customization. So because we had curated boxes 571 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,440 and we we had a lot of different curated boxes, but they wanted 572 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,640 to make their. Own like build their own 573 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,680 components, yeah. You know, so we, you know, we 574 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:29,640 listen to our customer loud and clear and, and which you know, 575 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,760 and got got that going. You know, if you know, said 576 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,720 it's, you know, said it's a price, it's, it's, it's never, 577 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,600 you know, it's never quality. I can't say it's never quality. 578 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,080 It's rarely quality. But you know, for us it was lack 579 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:47,480 of customization and, and price. Those were our two biggest ones. 580 00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:51,800 Can't do much about price because, you know, the price of 581 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:55,200 meat has gone up exponentially over the last three years, over 582 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,560 the last five years really. And it just keeps going up. 583 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,320 So I mean, it's expensive everywhere, but we were like, we 584 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:03,840 can't do something about the customization part. 585 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,920 And so, you know, our team, you know, diligently worked and, and 586 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,240 we got that, you know, as an option now. 587 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:14,960 But so it's listening, you know, you don't, if you, you don't 588 00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,040 know what to solve, if you, if you don't ask the question. 589 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,360 So it's, you know, surveying our customers, surveying that we, 590 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,560 you know, we, we do we have a regular cadence of surveying our 591 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,320 current customers, not the whole list, but you know, a subset 592 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,960 and, and past customers. Why'd you leave? 593 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:37,800 And we're not at we I, I looked at our customer service manager, 594 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,680 who's in the back right there listening when you said the 595 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,400 calling every person who's turned and I, I made us. 596 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,840 Are we doing that? Oh, we're doing OK. 597 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,120 I love it 'cause I was looking at you. 598 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,240 Like if we're not doing that, we need to be doing that. 599 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:55,120 I love doing these live. We're all learning. 600 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,640 That's great. That's great, yeah. 601 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:02,040 No, that's, that's amazing. But so we realized that our 602 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,600 biggest drop off of if we can get, if we can get our 603 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:09,880 customers, if we if we can get them to their third order, like 604 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,640 that's this like we got them, it's getting them to their third 605 00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,800 order. So we started putting more check 606 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:20,560 insurance between order one and order 2 because our biggest drop 607 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,560 off is between order one and order 2. 608 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,000 And so we started for us it was identifying that and OK, what 609 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,400 can we do difference? And then we also realized that 610 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:32,600 we were actually giving too much meat. 611 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,040 And it wasn't, it wasn't the money, it wasn't the OR, or the 612 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,840 value. It was the, they had too much, 613 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,040 you know, and so that's why they were cancel or pause or just 614 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:50,160 push, push, push. And, and so we actually, this 615 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:55,000 was 2 1/2 years ago when we realized that we stripped away, 616 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,160 you know, we, we took our average order value down because 617 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,920 like I said, it's $200 right now. 618 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,200 When we first started, our average order value was 250. 619 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:07,680 But what we realized is our, also our average subscription 620 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,840 was every eight weeks, 60% were on 8 weeks because the box was 621 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,920 so big. And so we want them, you know, 622 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,400 the name of subscription is to have recurring monthly revenue, 623 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,760 not bimonthly, you know, And so, so again, listening to the 624 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,520 customer, watching the data and what is it? 625 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040 You know, the data tells you something. 626 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:35,400 And we have a saying in our, in our, in our company data doesn't 627 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,280 make decisions, people do. And you can be swimming in data, 628 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,520 but what decisions are you making with that data? 629 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,800 But if you study the numbers, if you look at it, it's telling you 630 00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,639 a story and you just have to respond. 631 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,199 Yeah. I think having feedback loops is 632 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,600 so key. But to your point, you have to 633 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,320 actually listen to it and actually act on it, right? 634 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,120 People love to think that they have the their product is 635 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,200 already perfect and doesn't need anything. 636 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560 And if you just listen to your customers, they're they're going 637 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:07,200 to they're going to tell you right, you're sending me too 638 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,960 much meat. Let me give you more money like 639 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,680 send me less and my old T VS going to grow. 640 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,800 I think it's huge. We, I mean we. 641 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,360 Had a brand. The reason is laughing is we had 642 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,760 a brand years ago and we kept saying to them, we don't feel 643 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,360 like you know why people buy. We can see the analytics. 644 00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:23,680 It tells us what's happened. It tells us how it happened, but 645 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,000 it doesn't say why. And then we also did weed a 646 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,320 massive, they, they sold furniture and lighting, massive 647 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,480 LTV problem. No one came back. 648 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:32,160 Not an obvious subscription model. 649 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:34,640 And also, if no one's coming back, don't try enough on a 650 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,000 subscription, that's just not going to work. 651 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,640 And we did this feedback survey and the, and we started showing 652 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,080 the graphs back to the business and said we sent it out a week 653 00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,080 ago. We got the results in. 654 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:44,600 Let's have a look at the graphs together and start. 655 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,960 Let's get some ideas as to what exactly what we're going to do. 656 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,640 And it was like, people don't like how long your product 657 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:52,880 descriptions are. They think they could be shorter 658 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,920 and quicker to understand. And she's like, but I like 659 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:56,640 those. I wrote those myself and was 660 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,240 like, oh, no, this is going to be a long afternoon. 661 00:35:59,240 --> 00:36:01,480 It's just the millennial. Marketer versus the Gen. 662 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,480 Z marketer. Yeah, well, they so. 663 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:05,240 They were distributing products, COVID hits. 664 00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:06,920 They had to go direct to consumer and she just didn't 665 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,480 understand. She knew what the distribution 666 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,600 channels wanted, which was loads of information about the 667 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,040 products. We buying the best we can at the 668 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:14,920 right price. There's all the consumers want. 669 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,560 They're like, I like red. Red's cool, isn't it? 670 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,880 I'm going to buy that because the image, the image sold it, 671 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,160 but there's these massive long descriptions yet to get through 672 00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,640 before the add to cart button. So we're like, let's run an AB 673 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:26,440 test. And she sort of went no, no, no, 674 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,360 let's just leave it as it is or let's just change it. 675 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,200 It's like, but if we AB test, we know is it 5% important? 676 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,880 Is it 80% important? We get those kind of stats? 677 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,640 So just as far as laughing as you remember having this 678 00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,880 meeting, it's a long day, but we're going to take questions in 679 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:41,320 a minute. I got one more question for you 680 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,560 guys. So think of any good questions 681 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,240 to ask these two, not me as challenging as you want as well. 682 00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:50,320 I want to ask about background. I'm going to start with you, 683 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,800 Ben, because I saw a clip of you on another podcast and thought, 684 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,440 wow, that's it's quite a story of where you were before as to 685 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,880 how you got into starting the business and and founding it and 686 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,120 where you are today. Give us give us a quick version 687 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,440 of of the story. Like where did you start? 688 00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,720 What led you into it and how are you running what you are today? 689 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,920 Yeah, I said at the beginning. I had no industry knowledge, no, 690 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:12,320 you know, whether it was business or meat. 691 00:37:13,240 --> 00:37:16,960 I was a worship pastor at a large church in Houston and I 692 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,760 did music full full time from the time I, you know, when I was 693 00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:28,960 19 till my till probably 30-4. And that's what I was really 694 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:33,920 good at it. And, and, but yeah, my, my 695 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,280 story. And you know what, whatever your 696 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:39,640 personal beliefs are, but my story is God told me to start a 697 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:45,040 meat company and I heard it loud and clear and I went, I was 698 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,160 working full time at the church and I can't, we just had our 699 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,280 first baby boy. He was maybe 6 weeks old. 700 00:37:50,720 --> 00:37:53,120 And I walked out of the, it was a Sunday morning. 701 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,640 I walked out of the, the, the bathroom. 702 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:56,480 I was getting ready and I went to my wife. 703 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,440 She was holding her baby. And I said, I think God just 704 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:00,960 told me to start a meat company and it couldn't have been more 705 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,280 left field and thinking she was going to go. 706 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,360 We don't have any money. We just had a baby. 707 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,760 We don't know anything about running a business. 708 00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,920 But she looked back at me and said, if you heard God, then I 709 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:16,120 trust you. And so we went well and here we 710 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,120 are. I I. 711 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:18,840 Am a worship leader of my church as well, which is why it 712 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:20,280 resonated me. I was like when I heard it, I 713 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:23,560 was like, this is amazing. So but John, how did you fall 714 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,320 into battle box as well? How did you get involved? 715 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:30,680 I can't go. After that, what? 716 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:32,240 Sorry, I feel like I feel set up here. 717 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:36,920 What do you believe, Jordan? Come on, Everything I was in. 718 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,880 B2B sales technology SAS. Cool, yeah. 719 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,000 I was, yeah, I was was investing in companies and I like 720 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:49,280 reoccurring revenue well enough to. 721 00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:50,240 Set you up. This is fun. 722 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:53,560 So, yeah, not as not as a cool story. 723 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:54,960 Thanks, man. That's all right. 724 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:56,440 We. Got Netflix show which is cool, 725 00:38:56,440 --> 00:38:57,520 but yeah, yeah. Sure. 726 00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:58,640 Can we give? Them a round of applause. 727 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,640 It's amazing if you guys taking time out and sharing stuff, 728 00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,760 yeah. To make one correction, I said 729 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:09,880 CX manager, she is our CX director as of a month ago is 730 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,360 that. Racially promoted or yes? 731 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:13,400 Love it you've. Obviously done well. 732 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:14,760 So well done. Very proud of you. 733 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,800 She walked into the office with Who Runs the World but Beyoncé 734 00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,480 the next day. True story. 735 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,200 Does anyone? I love it. 736 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,240 Does anyone have any questions for these guys at all? 737 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:34,160 There we go, we got. 1. Yes. 738 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,720 So I'll just. Repeat it because the people 739 00:39:35,720 --> 00:39:38,120 listening went no, what the question was yeah, what what AB 740 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,720 what AB testing tools are you using? 741 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:41,400 What software are you doing stuff differently? 742 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:43,440 Who wants to go first? Yeah, I'll, I'll. 743 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:47,800 Go. We were actually testing a new 744 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,120 one called testing a testing. Tool visually. 745 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,840 We're we're we've on boarded a a week ago and we're testing it 746 00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:55,760 right now. We've used quite a few. 747 00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,480 So we'll see. We'll see how it goes with with 748 00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:00,280 that one. Nice. 749 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:02,960 Yeah. I don't know the answer to that. 750 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,200 And I was looking in the audience was trying to find 751 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,440 Michael Mcwhorter. Where are you? 752 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:13,120 He would know. Yes, yeah, yeah, I do. 753 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,280 Know ours is a Shopify. I mean, there's, there's so many 754 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,160 that's the beauty of Shopify is there's so much plug and play 755 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:22,800 out the box. Another mistake we made was 756 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:30,680 trying to even when we migrated over to Shopify, we we didn't go 757 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,400 head it. We we were still headless, 758 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:37,840 meaning we were there's still a good amount of development that 759 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:44,040 we were in charge of and about 7-8 months ago we went why are 760 00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,400 we doing this? Like, you know, it was just let. 761 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,040 Them do it so exciting for a while wasn't it like 99 page 762 00:40:49,040 --> 00:40:50,640 speed and stuff? But Shopify's improved enough 763 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,200 now you don't need to. Shopify's the expert. 764 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,640 Let them be the expert, yeah? Amazing have we got any more 765 00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,960 questions for our amazing guests at all or we're good sweet. 766 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:01,880 We'll give them a round of applause. 767 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:02,960 Thanks for joining us, everybody. 768 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:05,040 And for everyone watching, thank you for tuning in. 769 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,000 Join us again next time. Thanks for having. 770 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,760 Us, yeah, Thank you, Do. You ever find? 771 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,400 That in your warehouse you have dead stock, you can't sell it, 772 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,360 no one wants to buy it, and you can't get a refund on it. 773 00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,720 Or alternatively, you're missing inventory in your warehouse that 774 00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:18,840 you need, you've got sales coming in and you're low on 775 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,560 stock and you haven't ordered more stock in time. 776 00:41:21,720 --> 00:41:23,560 All these things hit profit. 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