1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,160 Hello and welcome to another episode, the winning We Shopify 2 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:07,600 podcast. If you've not tuned in before, 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:08,920 my name is Nick. I've been hosting the show for 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,600 many, many years now and it's a pleasure having you tuning into 5 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,200 this. I run an agency. 6 00:00:13,200 --> 00:00:14,880 I've been in the industry for now 20 years. 7 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:18,240 I pop up at conferences and most of the time you'll find me 8 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:20,400 working with my lovely team just the other side of this wall. 9 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,760 Hence why this wall is red and not pink. 10 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:24,560 It's because it's all part of our agency branding. 11 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,000 But we run the podcast and what an amazing podcast this is not 12 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:30,920 thanks to me, but thanks to the amazing team behind me and also 13 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:33,680 all of the amazing guests we have and the amazing people that 14 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,240 TuneIn as well. Why you doing such a weird 15 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:37,800 intro? Nick is different to normal, but 16 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:39,880 that's a very good question. The reason I'm doing a different 17 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:41,840 intro today is because I'm going to do a very different episode. 18 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,480 And today instead of going through the news headlines like 19 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:46,680 we normally do on a Tuesday tea break talks, There's not a lot 20 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,960 going on. And I have been getting a lot of 21 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,600 emails from people about a specific topic. 22 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,280 And we're going to talk about this today and it is all about 23 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:58,520 branding and this is going to feed into something we're 24 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,920 building at the moment on what we were calling the unofficial 25 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,120 Shopify Summit. We've now changed it's name 26 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,640 because we've improved the branding and realised how bad 27 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,120 the branding was initially and started building the platform 28 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:10,440 and other stuff. I'm going to come feed in 29 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,320 satellite, but I want to talk about Shopify store branding, 30 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:15,760 e-commerce branding, branding for merchants, like a lot of you 31 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:19,680 guys listening at the moment. So I've got some good advice for 32 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,200 you and well, I think it's good advice. 33 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,840 It's advice that I've started following and learnt over the 34 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:26,160 years having worked with so many brands, but I want to put out 35 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,640 three brands in particular first, which I've got here on 36 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,360 the iPad of Truth and the iPad of Knowledge. 37 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,080 It's just an iPad and it's a lovely blue colour. 38 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:38,200 But anyway, I want to talk about 3 brands and we've had one of 39 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,040 these on the show, we almost had another one on the show and the 40 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,960 other one have no affiliation with whatsoever. 41 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:44,440 These are just brands I like. I'm not affiliated with them. 42 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:46,240 We don't work with them directly. 43 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,840 The first one is All Birds, which you might have come 44 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:50,680 across. So I want to talk about their 45 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:52,680 branding, what they did, and then we're going to talk about 46 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,440 the other two brands and then we'll talk about some of the 47 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,240 advice then for helping you guys come up with the best branding, 48 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,000 the branding that is most effective and most effective. 49 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,080 You can underline 3 or 4 times and put it in big bold letters 50 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,760 if you're taking notes because effective is the key, not 51 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,320 preference. And we'll talk about that as we 52 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,480 go through. So All Birds are a trainer brand 53 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,640 and what a lot of people do, and we're going to talk about this 54 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:18,800 when we get into the advice and steps a little bit later on, a 55 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:21,040 bit further down in my notes is a lot of people start off by 56 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:22,760 going, wow, isn't this a cool logo? 57 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,880 This looks amazing. And that's the wrong way to do 58 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:26,120 this. You'll almost definitely be 59 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:27,720 wrong. What All Birds did is they 60 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:31,320 looked at the market 1st and said it's a very saturated 61 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,000 market in footwear, globally saturated. 62 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,800 And actually everyone's got very loud branding. 63 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,520 And with branding, there is no right or wrong answer. 64 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,000 There's no playbook, There's no here's how to do it right. 65 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,640 Actually, you need to come up with a creative idea. 66 00:02:44,640 --> 00:02:46,640 And it's one of the reasons I don't like branding as a 67 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:49,840 exercise in trying to brand businesses is I'm a numbers guy. 68 00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:52,200 It's just not my skill set. I'm more of a managing director 69 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,640 than a creative director. All brands made a decision, a 70 00:02:55,640 --> 00:03:00,920 creative decision not to have very loud shouty branding and 71 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:04,280 rather and also everyone had very performance driven 72 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,840 messaging like these trainers help you go faster, perform 73 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,840 better than Nikes and Adidas or Nike and Adidas of this world or 74 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:14,840 Adidas somebody calls it. Those guys have very loud 75 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:16,800 performance kind of driven marketing. 76 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,760 And actually all birds decided we need to look a little bit 77 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,120 different to that or we're just going to be another another 78 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:24,880 brand fighting for the same market share. 79 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,880 So as a result of trying to be different, they went for a very 80 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,200 soft neutral colour palette. The logo was very a very simple 81 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,640 word mark, no icon, no embellishment and it reinforces 82 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,920 transparency and confidence. And again, very, very simple. 83 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:43,120 And it's just their their name in a very simple soft curly 84 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:44,880 text. Everyone else has got very 85 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,760 shouty, shouty names and it's all about performance when it 86 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,480 comes to trainers. But not these guys very soft. 87 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,960 The typography needs to be very clean, modern sans serif with 88 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,240 generous spacing, not too cramped, not too like all 89 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,080 brands. Tone of voice and branding as a 90 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,360 organization and as a as a brand concept is the opposite of me. 91 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,480 I'm quite loud and I talk very very quickly and I'm aware of 92 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:06,280 that. Some people have actually 93 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,280 messaged me and said I listen to you on like nought .7 nought .6 94 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:13,440 times speed so I can keep up. Apologies, I'm full of energy 95 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,800 and I don't lose that energy, but I do know it's one of my 96 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,279 flaws as a human. And then the imagery as well. 97 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,040 Lots of natural light, minimal styling and real textures, wool, 98 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,240 eucalyptus and sugar cane, as well as being some of their 99 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,800 actual materials and textures that they show in that imagery. 100 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:35,000 And as a result, they created a very premium credibility, vastly 101 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,440 scaled. They're on Shopify, and they've 102 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:40,400 got a very kind of sustainable message at the core of 103 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,800 everything that they do. It's very mainstream. 104 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,960 It's aesthetic rather than being in a niche. 105 00:04:45,280 --> 00:04:49,440 But again, their calm branding has gone against the grain of 106 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,640 other footwear brands they would otherwise be competing against. 107 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,240 How do you be faster and better than everybody else? 108 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:56,480 Just do it completely differently. 109 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,160 If you want to win a race, build a new racing track and you'll 110 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,960 win every time. And in business you can do that. 111 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,080 Sometimes called having a monopoly or creating creating 112 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:07,320 your own your own vacuum. I used the analogy I used to use 113 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,520 with company events because I used to say, why would I pay 114 00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,880 thousands, 10s of thousands of pounds to go to events, speak at 115 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,800 events, sponsor events, when actually I could just own the 116 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,960 chess board myself rather than playing chess. 117 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,480 And obviously we have the podcasts. 118 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:22,000 I get to project whatever message I want through the 119 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:23,160 podcast. There's the way we've done it 120 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,240 ourselves, amongst other things. The second one, this would not 121 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,040 be a good podcast without mentioning the big bad boys of, 122 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,880 of Shopify and Shopify Plus is gym Shark. 123 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,840 So Gym shark Gym shark wasn't just selling gym clothes. 124 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,160 It needed to represent and this is what their this is where 125 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:40,720 their branding again got creative and there's something a 126 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,800 bit different. It needed to represent a 127 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,960 movement for a new generation of fitness fans. 128 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:50,160 Gym shark part of this is right place, right time. 129 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:54,120 I, I met the guy Martin Dawes, I think is his name, who runs a 130 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,520 company used to be called Coffee Nation and it then got bought by 131 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,280 Costa and now it's essentially it's those little coffee 132 00:06:00,280 --> 00:06:01,520 machines you have in petrol stations. 133 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,520 I'm pretty sure you, I've seen them in the US as well. 134 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,840 We have them all over the country. 135 00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:06,880 Here in the UK it's called Costa Express. 136 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,440 You see Costa Express on a petrol station or if you guys in 137 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,680 the USA gas station. That's a terrible impression of 138 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:14,960 your accent. I'm very sorry, but a gas 139 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,000 station in the US when you see Costa Express, I, I don't know 140 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:19,440 if you guys have it something else, but it's still Coffee 141 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,080 Nation. But Costa was the biggest coffee 142 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,280 chain here in the UK. So he's sold Coffee Nation to 143 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:25,720 Costa and it's those little coffee machines, part of the 144 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,440 coffee boom. Same time Gym Shark, right 145 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,120 place, right time. But gyms have existed for a long 146 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,800 time. So if it was actually at a 147 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,440 different time, Gym Shark could have done a different branding 148 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,120 approach. But what they did is capture 149 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:39,080 that actually there's we're going to we want to be at the 150 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:41,720 forefront of this movement. There's a different type of 151 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,320 fitness fanatic, so very different, although they're also 152 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:49,320 selling a very sport LED product like All Birds, who I think are 153 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:51,760 two, two good examples. They did the opposite. 154 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,920 And when it's black, it's white. Bold accent colours for impact 155 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,840 and contrast. Because Gym Shark's very, very 156 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:00,760 shouty. But it's also there's a level of 157 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:03,280 understatement in Gym Shark as well. 158 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,640 The logo needs to be strong and angular. 159 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:08,360 Shark icon. This is aggressive sharks. 160 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,880 They just attack things is what people think about when they 161 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,080 think about sharks, Although it's not technically true about 162 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:14,800 lots of sharks. I watch a lot of David 163 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,200 Attenborough in my spare time. They're also recognisable 164 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:20,120 without any text. So unlike all birds. 165 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:22,760 The one of this very friendly, kind of almost handwritten logo 166 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:24,880 Jim shark was like, you just want to see this little shark 167 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:27,360 and go, oh, it's Jim shark. I know exactly who that is. 168 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,000 Typography, no surprises, heavy assertive fonts to convey 169 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,160 strength and confidence. And again, having a strong brand 170 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,760 for something at the gym is exactly what gyms generally are 171 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,680 about this movement that lots of other brands, some of the brands 172 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:43,880 we work with have really jumped on over the last few years. 173 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:46,400 It's about massive, massive gains. 174 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,840 It's about lifting heavier weights than ever. 175 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,440 It's, it's striking, it's loud. Even the words I'm using, the 176 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:56,000 way I'm pronouncing those words in the English language, a lot 177 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,800 of them around performance, you know, they've got lots of very, 178 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,120 very strong vowels and consonants in those words 179 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,160 themselves. You can read into this far too 180 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,240 much though. And then I don't need to talk 181 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:07,440 about the imagery too much. But it's quite clear, isn't the 182 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,280 visual language they use is high energy photography real 183 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,960 athletes? But then this is really 184 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,120 interesting when it comes to marketing by getting this brand 185 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,480 right and that creative decision as to what angle to go down, it 186 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:21,440 then becomes social first framing. 187 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:22,920 So actually they're a lot of them. 188 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,680 Marketing is done through the athletes they work with, not 189 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,280 influencers, not social media people, not celebrities, 190 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,000 athletes. I think they called them, I 191 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:34,440 don't know what they call them now, but they were called 192 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,120 athletes at one point. And before that they were called 193 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,520 ambassadors. These are our ambassadors, the 194 00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:41,520 Gym Shark ambassadors, and they would specifically have 195 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,120 hundreds, if not thousands of them. 196 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,360 So the first moment you see Gym Shark, you're like, everyone's 197 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,080 talking about this brand. But they engineered that there 198 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,360 was a day when nobody was talking about it and they made 199 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:55,760 everybody talk about it. So Gym Shark's branding, it felt 200 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,680 native to Instagram and YouTube, the big platforms of the time, 201 00:08:58,680 --> 00:09:00,360 works really well on TikTok, which obviously come out 202 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,480 subsequently after gym Shark has has had its big one of its big 203 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:06,680 growth growth pushes. It didn't look like a 204 00:09:06,680 --> 00:09:08,080 traditional sports brand as well. 205 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,280 It looked like a the community itself. 206 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,400 And that's what they wanted is when people engaged with Gym 207 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:13,560 Shark. It was almost like you're 208 00:09:13,560 --> 00:09:15,720 signing up to a club. Another brand. 209 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:17,680 This is not the third one, but just quickly on this, another 210 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:19,920 brand, this is really, really well I found and again, I'm 211 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,160 pretty sure you guys have this in US is Hollister. 212 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:24,320 Hollister is all about California. 213 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,080 It's California clothing and you can experience it all over the 214 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,240 world. The the shops in the UK, most 215 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:32,520 shops, you walk around a shopping centre, it's just glass 216 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,120 at the front, few mannequins you walk in, the clothes are there. 217 00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:38,440 It's quite a simple exercise. Hollister, what a branding 218 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:40,760 experience. You walk by and they are pumping 219 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:44,840 out loads of this Hollister perfume you, if you know the 220 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:46,720 smell, you're smelling it right now, even though it's not 221 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,760 physically in the room with you. What a fantastic way to 222 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:53,040 advertise clothing in a shopping centre or a shop on the High 223 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,240 Street is to have that smell and it looks like a surf Hut in 224 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,240 California. You go in and there are videos 225 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:02,520 in the shop on the walls, videos playing of just waves, 226 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:05,160 surfboards. They've absolutely captured that 227 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,040 and I think they've changed it now, but their loyalty program 228 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,360 used to be called Cali Club, California Club. 229 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,240 Come join the club. Absolutely brilliant. 230 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,680 And I think Gym Shark have captured a lot of what what 231 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,040 Hollister did in the kind of 2000s into 20 tens. 232 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,080 Gym Shark have really captured that themselves and built that 233 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,720 community. Now I try not to swear too much 234 00:10:23,720 --> 00:10:25,240 on here, but I can't. Not saying the name of this 235 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,200 company. Case study #3 is who gives a 236 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,800 crap? So they sell toilet roll Again, 237 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:32,720 don't know if you have them. I assume you do have them in 238 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,440 America because of where I grabbed these stats from. 239 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:37,320 Some of them in I'm not going to read some of the stats acts that 240 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:38,520 they're irrelevant to the branding bit. 241 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:40,480 We just need to know it's super successful. 242 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,800 But the challenge? They sell toilet paper. 243 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,400 What does toilet paper normally look like? 244 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:47,200 It's in a packet. It's at the supermarket. 245 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,640 And the adverts just go on about like Andrex just has a puppy 246 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,240 who's running along and then kind of like slow motion goes 247 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,880 all funny and you just want to snuggle the puppy and there's 248 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:57,840 some toilet roll there because it's so soft. 249 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,160 It's not bad. Who gives a crap? 250 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:01,960 Come along. Selling toilet paper online 251 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,240 means fighting sameness. Every toilet paper company. 252 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,320 There's Andrex, which is soft, there's Cushty, which is soft. 253 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,560 Do I know any other toilet paper brands? 254 00:11:11,560 --> 00:11:13,760 I think a lot of them are just the individual supermarkets here 255 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,960 or grocery, grocery stores, you guys call them in the US as 256 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:19,760 well. But so they, yeah, again, most 257 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:21,560 brands look identical. And the fact I can't even, I 258 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,600 work in branding and I spot brands a lot and I work, we're 259 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:24,960 not branding, we work in marketing. 260 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,520 The fact I can't name any I think proves the point that all 261 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,920 the brands look identical. Who gives a crap? 262 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:33,080 I remember seeing them because of their striking branding. 263 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,920 When you go to a friend's house and they've got some of their 264 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,360 roles and they're all individually wrapped 265 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:37,760 differently. Fantastic. 266 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:41,160 So the colour palette, bright, bright pinks, yellows, bold 267 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:46,040 contrasts intentionally untoilet paper like so again, I haven't 268 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,720 used the word yet in in since start hit record here. 269 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,360 But it's disruptive. They're disrupting the status 270 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:52,840 quo. They're disrupting the narrative 271 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,640 that toilet paper brands, they're boring. 272 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,840 It's just toilet paper. It's it's even in a locked room, 273 00:11:58,000 --> 00:11:59,320 right? It's locked in the toilet. 274 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,440 No one really wants to talk about the toilet. 275 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,720 Suddenly who gives a crap comes along and it's like, that's the 276 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:05,840 topic you bring up at the pub and go, yeah, we've started 277 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:06,880 ordering this. Who gives a crap? 278 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,200 It's quite fun. The logo friendly Friendly's an 279 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,320 interesting 1 when it comes to toilet paper because you always 280 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:15,640 just get on the road of soft but friendly irrelevant typography 281 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:17,440 rather than a traditional corporate mark. 282 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,400 So again, it's trying to be irrelevant is the word that 283 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:22,320 designers used. The tone and visuals are playful 284 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,440 illustrations, humour, LED design, bold packaging. 285 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,720 They're helping the planet, but they literally, if you're 286 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,200 watching this as well, I'm just going to put this on the screen. 287 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,840 But like you can see this where the, you know, where's the loo? 288 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,920 And it's like a literally where's Wally style. 289 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:39,600 Like where is the loo in this picture? 290 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,760 And you have to try and find it makes it fun. 291 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,880 I used to subscribe to another brand called Dollar Shave Club 292 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,840 and they're the same thing as they would send you little 293 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:50,200 comics every time you got more razors, more blades for your 294 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,840 razor, they would sell you a they'll give you a comic as 295 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:54,720 well. And that would arrive and it 296 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,000 said, keep us in the bathroom and read it. 297 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,560 And they were quite funny, which actually meant I wasn't playing 298 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,000 on my phone anymore in the toilet. 299 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,880 I was like, you know, reading a funny comic and people come 300 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,320 round and go like, that's quite funny in your in your loo. 301 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,720 And then for consistency, the website, packaging and messaging 302 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,440 all feel unmistakably the same brand. 303 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,120 Even though they use such a spectrum of colours, it's making 304 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,320 it fun for toilet paper. So strong brand recognition, 305 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:18,800 repeat, high purchase rate. They do a lot with 306 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,720 subscriptions. And I'm going to announce soon 307 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,280 if any of you guys are in the US, I'm going to a conference 308 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,560 about subscriptions and I'll, I'll tell you more, it's in May. 309 00:13:25,560 --> 00:13:27,280 I'll tell you more as, as we get close to it, if anybody is 310 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,080 interested in coming. And we're going to get somebody 311 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,640 from the, the show itself actually on the show to come and 312 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,600 tell you guys about it. So what all these guys have in 313 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,080 common then Clear brand positioning, They are 314 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:39,240 disruptors. The colour palettes are chosen 315 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,320 for meaning, not trends. Logos are designed for 316 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:44,840 scalability and recognition. So they've invested. 317 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,200 Once it got to a point of like minimum viable product, we can 318 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,400 scale now. Now it's like this, really hone 319 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,920 in on what the brand is, how it works, the logo, make it 320 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:54,160 recognisable. And now when we scale, it's 321 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,400 already good. If you try and scale a brand 322 00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:00,160 with a business with bad branding, bad brand position, 323 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:01,960 it's not what I like to call sticky. 324 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,800 Doesn't stick in your mind, you don't remember it. 325 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:06,400 It really, really clearly. It's going to be a struggle. 326 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,240 You have to spend more. It's actually going to be less 327 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:10,320 profitable. And this is the qualitative 328 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,560 stuff that I don't talk about often because it's, you can't 329 00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:14,560 quantify it. It's just the brand's good. 330 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:16,880 So people like it. And then you start to see things 331 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:18,880 like average order value is high, lifetime value and repeat 332 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,200 purchase is high, initial conversion rate is high because 333 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,040 the brand's sticky. And people want to talk about 334 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,440 these three brands at dinner parties, at the pub with their 335 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:29,240 friends. They want to share social posts 336 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:30,360 from them. They want to follow them on 337 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,280 social because the brand personality is hilarious. 338 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,960 It's engaged, it's challenging, it's striking, and those are all 339 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:39,360 reasons you need to copy brands like this. 340 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,000 So what does that mean for all of us then? 341 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,880 I sit in so many meetings when we're doing, certainly when 342 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,680 we're doing CRO stuff. And there's nothing wrong with 343 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,960 this. A lot of brands are made around 344 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:53,440 the founder and the founder is fine. 345 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,040 And any of my clients listening like we love you, we love you, 346 00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:57,320 like founders. Without you, we wouldn't have 347 00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,600 any business. One of the challenges then is 348 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,920 doubling down as to what is it about the founder. 349 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,840 Why is it when the founder says I like this image, not that one, 350 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:08,240 does that image work better? And how can you build more of a 351 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,600 brand that as you scale the founder can't be involved in 352 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,880 every marketing decision, every visual, every page on the 353 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,480 website, every product that's purchased. 354 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,640 So if you want to scale the business, we need to find out 355 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,800 what is it about the founder people like and make it about 356 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:23,040 that thing and less necessarily long term about the founder, 357 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:24,800 unless the founder's going to become ACEO. 358 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,320 But then again, we've got to write all this stuff down and 359 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:27,840 really hone in. What's our tone of voice? 360 00:15:27,840 --> 00:15:29,280 What's our branding? How should we talk about 361 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:31,880 ourselves? So rather than starting, as I 362 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,560 mentioned earlier, rather than starting with the visuals and 363 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,080 going chachi peti, make me a logo. 364 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,960 And this is your classic, classic what people do. 365 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:39,360 Make me a logo for my T-shirt brand. 366 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,560 Start off with what I like to call the positioning. 367 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:45,720 So who's the brand for what age demographic? 368 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,160 Where do they live? What their interests? 369 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,360 Where do they use the product? What problem does your product 370 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:53,040 solve? This is really, really key. 371 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,360 We had a lady on just before Christmas talking about 372 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,760 Indigenous communities in the US and that's who her brand stands 373 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:00,880 for. We spoke about, we spoke to 374 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:03,360 Floof Candy last year. What does your brand stand for? 375 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,040 And I might get some of these slightly wrong. 376 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:06,200 That's what I took from the conversation. 377 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:08,800 What I remember Floof is bright pink. 378 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,520 She herself was wearing like nice pale pink colours. 379 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,240 She's on brand and it's cake but made with candy floss and it's 380 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,720 all sugar and it's all fun. And it's very easy to, you know, 381 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:20,960 very easy to create the product, which is quite fun. 382 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:23,120 What other brands have we spoken to? 383 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,440 We've had a T-shirt brand called Rapa Nui here from the UK. 384 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,640 And it was all about wearing these super soft T-shirts 385 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,240 anywhere from workplace stuff. But it's bringing like 386 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,160 Hollister, bringing surfing into whatever your in your daily life 387 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,440 is where you can't just go and surf because you've got a job. 388 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:40,680 You've got to go into your job and got a house to look after. 389 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:44,080 And what your brand, this is I think the most important part 390 00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,520 coming back to that disruptor, what your brand stands against. 391 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,760 If you're not watching this, I'm just having a quick sip of tea. 392 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:55,360 So if you're just listening, that's why I get a funny noise. 393 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,320 What do your brand stand against? 394 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,960 I think it's a really, really key point to think about my 395 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,480 agency, for example, spec, we stand against the status quo of 396 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:07,440 agencies. There are so many things 397 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,319 agencies do that we don't like. And I'm not bringing this up to 398 00:17:11,319 --> 00:17:14,880 a sales pitch, but actually over the last going up until probably 399 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,319 third week of September 2025 is when we launched the new brand. 400 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,319 I was working on that for nine months. 401 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,920 Who are we, who do we work for and what is our tagline? 402 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,720 And we've changed it to profitable revenue growth. 403 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:27,800 I'm very much a show me the numbers, show me the money and 404 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,560 I'll believe it. If you can't show me those 405 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,280 things, I don't believe it. And that's what we sell to 406 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,480 clients. We find so many agencies get 407 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,400 bogged down in, you know, your SEO rankings are going up. 408 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,600 It's great. We've got better visibility than 409 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:39,760 we've ever had. We've got better brand 410 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:40,880 awareness. That's great. 411 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:42,840 But show me the money, you know, is it actually creating 412 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,160 conversions? And can you prove it? 413 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,800 If not, and actually, if things aren't going up, but we those 414 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,040 metrics are, they're the wrong metrics or we're targeting the 415 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:51,440 wrong thing. We're getting more impressions 416 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,840 and visibility to the wrong people. 417 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:55,760 So what does your brand stand against? 418 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,600 If it's against the status quo, if it's the, you're the only 419 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,680 people in your industry who manufacture things ethically and 420 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:03,760 sustainably well, lead with that. 421 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:04,920 You know, that's a really good thing. 422 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,600 The caveat to this is what what do you stand against that 423 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,480 customers are interested in and do care about? 424 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:13,520 And one of my guests, James Carns says he's coming, coming 425 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,600 on the show again soon. He spoke about green washing and 426 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,520 trying not to green wash. And just like it's all about 427 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,880 sustainability and plastic out the ocean and everything else. 428 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,480 And James is absolutely right with that. 429 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,840 A lot of people actually don't necessarily care in their first 430 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:28,480 interaction. It's the later thing going by 431 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,240 the way that products that you have already bought, you know, 432 00:18:31,280 --> 00:18:33,680 like it was super soft and we focused on you as the customer 433 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,520 when you bought it. Do you know, it's actually done 434 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:37,640 this, this and this for the world or for a community or for 435 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,360 someone else. So again, having that, that kind 436 00:18:40,360 --> 00:18:42,800 of approach for people is, is really, really important. 437 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,360 And simplicity scales better than cleverness. 438 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,400 Sometimes with clients. If you put the brand like on a 439 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,480 mobile screen on your website and say to somebody who's never 440 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:53,800 heard of the brand, what does that look like? 441 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,000 What does it mean? They'll be like, oh, I don't 442 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,000 know, I have to get my glasses. It doesn't work. 443 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,000 The, the brand visually is not working. 444 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:00,800 There's something specifically wrong with this. 445 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:04,240 So these are four options you can go for with the colour 446 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:05,240 scheme. And I'm, I'm talking about just 447 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,520 the font size, but the whole kind of punch of it. 448 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,400 You can either go for more neutral kind of colours if you 449 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:11,760 want to build trust, keep it calm. 450 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,840 Talk about longevity, sustainability, high contrast, 451 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,240 which is the first one. Sorry, the neutrals is the all 452 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,200 birds, the gym shark, high contrast, energy, confidence, 453 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:24,240 urgency, performance, a muted palette. 454 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:27,640 So let's call it premium considered design LED. 455 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,880 And actually, I think brands are so quick to undervalue the, the 456 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,040 value in design of something. You probably notice when I'm on 457 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,560 the show, I don't have a case on my iPad or my iPhone. 458 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,800 I love the design of it and if I put it in a case, I feel like 459 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,720 I'm, I'm locking this beautiful design in a box, even though you 460 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,320 can buy nice cases. Well, I'll buy an older I, I'll 461 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,120 buy a really, you know, high model pro plus, whatever it's 462 00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:49,440 called of an older model of iPhone then, but I've got a 463 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,520 newer 1 and I like I like that I chose the colour blue. 464 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:53,280 I like the colour blue, so I won't put it in a case. 465 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,200 So that muted palette is premium considered and designed LED and 466 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:58,600 then the 4th one bright palettes. 467 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,520 That's when you want to add a bit more personality, 468 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,640 approachable, memorable, and a bit more fun. 469 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,080 Do not pick colours because competitors use them and do not 470 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,440 overload the palette. Most strong brands have one, 471 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,200 possibly 2 core strong colours. So it's spec. 472 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,560 We have the red, it's on the wall here and we have green. 473 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,600 Why did we choose red and green? Red, because we're a consultancy 474 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,080 and we wanted to be loud and and be that person in the room, the 475 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:23,640 devil's advocate. That's my personality. 476 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,400 We wanted to be the devil's advocate in the room. 477 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,760 We went for a soft red because we also didn't want to be in 478 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,280 people's faces. We're helping you run your 479 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:31,160 business. So soft Reds, there's a reason 480 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:32,840 why we chose that. Why green? 481 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:36,880 Things are either good or bad in in in e-commerce and and in 482 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,040 Legion and other other businesses we work with. 483 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:42,480 There's a break even line. You're above it or you're below 484 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,480 it. If you're above it, it's green, 485 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,120 if you're below it, it's red. So they work as a traffic light. 486 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,800 We have lots of sub colours but those are our main 2 colours 487 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,480 that we use. So logo should be recognisable 488 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,960 not descriptive. If your logo isn't sticky, if 489 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,400 people don't remember it, call a customer that bought from you 490 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,280 two years ago and say to them, hey I'm calling from such such 491 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,320 company. Don't worry if you don't 492 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,000 remember us, you bought from us years ago. 493 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:05,520 I just want to say can you remember what our logo looks 494 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,800 like? Can you remember our colour 495 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:07,760 scheme? And if they're if they're like 496 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,160 hold on say it's absolutely fine. 497 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:10,240 We're doing some work on our branding. 498 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:12,440 I just wanted to ask thanks for your time and see what they say. 499 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:16,680 See if it is sticky a few other points then consistently beats 500 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,040 originality. So the same logo rules 501 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,440 everywhere. I'm kicking my team all the time 502 00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,080 going. Why is that in white? 503 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,360 We don't have a white in our palette. 504 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:25,560 It's just off white. Why? 505 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,720 Because we want it to look like old paper white old paper 506 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:31,000 because it's more trustworthy than just any kind of pure white 507 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:32,680 paper. It's trustworthy because we've 508 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,000 been doing this longer than our competitors, although we don't 509 00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:37,520 put all these things down our you know, our clients throats 510 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,600 and sort of jump into pictures explaining all of this. 511 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:41,240 You do enough of these subtleties. 512 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,320 The whole brand goes. I just like the capacity goes. 513 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,480 I just like it. It's just really well thought 514 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,720 out and it just works, which is good. 515 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:50,280 And then design for longevity, not trends. 516 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:51,880 I've mentioned that ready for the for the long term, 517 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,680 typography is as important as the logo. 518 00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,520 If you're using thick block caps, it's loud, it's shouty. 519 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,480 If you're using soft curly, almost like italics, it's more 520 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,320 conversational. It might be more trustworthy, 521 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,120 like what's what's trustworthy? Someone's been doing something 522 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:06,720 for a very long time. They've got the experience. 523 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,920 Write it in a fountain pen format or even a quill. 524 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,240 We don't use quills or fountain pens. 525 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,200 We use fountain pens a bit. We don't use quills anymore 526 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,840 really. We use ballpoint pens, which are 527 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,040 very boring. So don't, don't use that unless 528 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:20,600 you're wanting to be like, we're the most stable and trustworthy 529 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:22,440 and we just get on with the boring thing that you don't want 530 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,400 to do. That might be good branding for 531 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,720 that space. And finally, I've got a few more 532 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,480 notes, but I'm just going to pick out one. 533 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,880 The brand trust directly impacts conversion. 534 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,960 So you need to build a brand that people trust, want to buy 535 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,640 from. And you will see this in things 536 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,840 like your review scores, your review content, the repeat 537 00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,120 orders from existing customers, and a whole range of other bits 538 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:49,640 and pieces as well. There we go. 539 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,280 I've spoken loads about brands. I haven't rented too much and I 540 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,440 haven't called loads of people under the bus as I might have 541 00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:58,880 done when I first wrote my notes thinking, you know what's been 542 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,920 annoying me the last few months? Brands. 543 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:02,560 Like people just don't understand brands. 544 00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,040 They do it for themselves. And I'm just going to leave you 545 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,160 with a few things I hear in meetings, like I said earlier, 546 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,040 and these are going to be the slight moans, but the kind of, 547 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,440 if you feel yourself saying this or you hear someone say this, 548 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,240 challenge it. When someone says I don't like 549 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,280 this, I like this. It's like it's not about you. 550 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,560 What does the data say? All our customers told us that 551 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,400 our clothing is really, really robust or our clothing washes 552 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,640 really, really well. And they didn't realise that 553 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:27,240 when they bought it, but it's fantastic. 554 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:29,520 Well, we need to test that as one of our USPS. 555 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:31,920 What does that mean for our logo, our branding and with 556 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,160 branding as well. You've got to be really, really 557 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:37,480 careful about changing it. We have some clients that every 558 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,400 time they write something, every time they release a new product, 559 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:42,920 the brand changes. We are sitting in a meeting with 560 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:46,840 a clothing client a couple of years back, and I was quite 561 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,160 struck by the fact that I said to them, like, hang on that logo 562 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,440 on the wall, That's different to the one on your website, isn't 563 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:53,320 it? They're like, oh, yeah, we 564 00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:54,960 change it every year. What? 565 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,400 Why do you change it? And they were like, oh, to keep 566 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,160 it fresh. Yeah. 567 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:01,120 But then someone from 10 years ago is like, what the heck's 568 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,600 this compared to? I was like, just invest once and 569 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:05,520 only change it once and then scale. 570 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,280 They were already at the point where they had volume and they 571 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,240 had a volume of customers in, in the UK. 572 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,080 So it was like actually, I think changing it now is a massive 573 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,080 mistake. And they, they showed me one 574 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:17,480 item of clothing that had a different label on the back to 575 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,320 the label on the packet that it went out with because it was 576 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,920 last year's model of, of top or whatever. 577 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,960 And it was going out in this year's branding and it had 578 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:26,800 changed. They'd actually changed the font 579 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,280 to be lowercase instead of uppercase. 580 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,760 Like guys, you need to stop doing this. 581 00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:31,920 That brand consistency is really, really important. 582 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:36,440 And finally, whatever brand you have, write it all down, Teach 583 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,640 all of your employees and staff what the brand is, what it 584 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,680 stands for, and everything from this font always needs to be 585 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,240 this size, this thing here always needs to be in. 586 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,040 We've got 2 fonts at spec, one for titles, one for everything 587 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,960 else. And my team sometimes use the 588 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:53,360 title font in just random headings or bolder random words 589 00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:55,240 somewhere. We only use it in headings and I 590 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,400 think numbers, I say I think it depends where the number is. 591 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:01,040 So make sure your team understand this, make sure all 592 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,480 of your agencies understand this. 593 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,360 The amount of times you've written stuff and clients say, 594 00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:06,400 Oh, that's not on brand or I wouldn't say that or I don't 595 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,520 like that. And we're like, why not? 596 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,320 And they're like, Oh, I just don't really like that word. 597 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,320 It's like we need, we need a, we need a source of truth. 598 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,440 You need a Bible, a brand Bible to go whatever the Bible says is 599 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,880 what we're going to go with. So if the Bible says that, it's 600 00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:19,000 always this font in this situation, this colour here. 601 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,400 And we only ever do things like a lawyer, I know he says that 602 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,720 they specifically only put stuff landscape documents. 603 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,680 They never do it portrait. It's part of their branding. 604 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,880 They want to be disruptive. So they only do it landscape and 605 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,000 everything is small summaries than the long print. 606 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:36,760 And the small summary means you don't need to read the long 607 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,000 print. The summary summarizes what's in 608 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,360 the long print. And they're trying to help their 609 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:42,720 customers out because no one understands legal jargon. 610 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,400 See how they've disrupted the legal world with their branding? 611 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:47,400 And that goes down to the point of everything always has to be 612 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:49,800 landscape. I hope you've enjoyed today. 613 00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,520 I hope it's been useful. I've been pulling lots, lots of 614 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,000 different ideas together. So yeah, I hope it's useful. 615 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,960 Drop us some feedback. Hello, winning with shopify.com. 616 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,520 And finally, the Summit is not called the Summit anymore. 617 00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,640 It's going to be called. I haven't updated the site yet, 618 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,320 so give me a few days to do that as well. 619 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,440 We're just finalising the branding and then we'll roll out 620 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:05,760 the whole thing. We started building the 621 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,080 platform. It's going to be called Growth 622 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,560 the the Shopify growth Vault or growth Vault. 623 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,920 The reason we're calling it a vault, like a vault as a safe or 624 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,200 a vault in a bank is because all the content's going to get 625 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,120 released at once. When we first got it Summit, we 626 00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:18,320 hadn't really thought through the branding. 627 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,040 My bad. And when I was getting ready for 628 00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,800 today as well, I was like, yeah, we need to sort this out. 629 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,040 So Byron and I and Mark who's building the platform as well, 630 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:28,160 three of us were locking horns and not locking horns, but 631 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,280 getting our heads together. And we did lock horns once or 632 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:32,240 twice going like, is it, this is it, this is it? 633 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,200 Like it's a vault. All content's going to go live 634 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:35,760 in the 1st September. There will be something's coming 635 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:37,640 out and we started getting the platform together as well. 636 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,280 So we're going to put some screenshots of that once it's 637 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,400 ready on the website. Go and sign up if you haven't 638 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,640 already. And if you want to sponsor or 639 00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,440 speak, if you're a brand and you want to share your brand story 640 00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,400 or talk about specific part of your brand, we'd love you to do 641 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,040 that. Please reach out 642 00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:51,560 washello@winningshopify.com. I'll go onto the website, 643 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:54,960 wwspodcast.com and click on 2026 Summit. 644 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,000 It's going to be called 2026 Growth Vault soon, so once 645 00:26:58,000 --> 00:26:59,600 that's changed as well, click on that. 646 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:01,240 We'll click on it. Now go and sign up to the 647 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,080 newsletter. I've got a bit of a cold and I 648 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,080 haven't slept much over the weekend, so apologies if I'm a 649 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:06,480 bit scary today, but thanks so much for tuning in. 650 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:07,680 It's been great. We're going to do a few more of 651 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,560 these as well where we just kind of dive into one topic and if 652 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,960 you have anything you want us to talk about or you have anything 653 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,480 to share, any cool quotes, any cool stats, something you've 654 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:16,880 done has been an absolute disaster. 655 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:18,600 Like send it in. I'd love to shout some of you 656 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:19,960 guys out as well, so thanks so much. 657 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,480 Tuning in back again next week and we're back in on Friday with 658 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:23,240 another brand.