1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,000 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast, some what you 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:04,920 know, those things like, Oh, no one. 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:08,840 'S giving us five stars out of five purely because the the 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,200 little joke in the transactional e-mail, like the e-mail 5 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,840 confirmation that went through to them, made them smile. 6 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:16,760 That was incredible. The VA, we needed them for two 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:18,480 weeks this time, so just to look at those. 8 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,400 And that was a great PR, PR moment for us. 9 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,200 Yeah, there's there's times to not do the kiss and there's. 10 00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,520 So, George, welcome to the show. Thank you very much, Nick. 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:38,520 Thank you. Nice to be here. 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,280 Well. It's great to have you on and as 13 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:43,600 any of our listeners will know, my first question to every 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,520 single guest we ever get on here is tell us a little bit about 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,880 yourself, George, and also about Snuffling Pig where you are the 16 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:50,800 Head of marketing. That's right. 17 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,080 Yes. Well, again, thanks for having 18 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,960 me. So yeah, my name is George 19 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:57,720 Wells. I have been in marketing for a 20 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,600 good 20 odd years now, but I have been with Snuffing Pig as 21 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:03,840 head of marketing for the last about five years. 22 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:11,840 I joined from a a big, big, big hairy marketing agency, well 23 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,200 known one in the middle of in the middle of London and felt, I 24 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,840 kind of felt it just felt a bit sort of, I felt it was a bit 25 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,240 soulless in a way and and not sort of rewarding. 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:25,560 And this opportunity at Snaffling Pig, which is this 27 00:01:25,560 --> 00:01:30,880 kind of plucky start up snack brand, I'm doing something a 28 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,760 little bit different and full of character, full of great 29 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,280 personalities. This opportunity came up and I 30 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,560 felt instantly at home there and I've kind of never looked back. 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,040 Just been loving, loving working for the brand and really sort of 32 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,120 feeling very much part of it. So yeah, it's, it's been a, it's 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,040 been a roller coaster. Yeah, well, that's good. 34 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,960 And it's somebody who runs their own agency. 35 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,520 I can vouch that I used to have all these aspirations of having 36 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:55,920 like 1000 staff and being the best in the world and all this. 37 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,680 I don't want any of that now. I actually quite like the fact 38 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:01,200 we're small, we're nimble, we're growing slowly and steadily. 39 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:02,960 And as you say, still got that soul. 40 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:04,760 And I think it's the same for any organization, whether it's 41 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:07,960 an agency or or brand. But I think obviously you're 42 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,199 working within a company now where you've got quite a lot of 43 00:02:10,199 --> 00:02:12,600 control, I imagine actually over marketing in the direction. 44 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,720 And it's probably people you still have to report into and 45 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,920 get approval from. But it's like one or two, not a, 46 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:19,840 you know, prove it with. So everybody accepts that it's 47 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,880 no one's fault if it goes wrong. Yeah, well, there's also nowhere 48 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:24,080 to hide. I mean, again, sort of 49 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,320 reflecting back on as I've worked clients client side and 50 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,720 agency side over the years sort of for big and small companies. 51 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:34,240 And I really found my sweet spot with a for exactly those reasons 52 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,560 you just mentioned it, just being able to everyone's kind of 53 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,200 honest and on it and there's nowhere to hide. 54 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:45,360 And I, you know, I was attracted to work at my previous role to 55 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,960 work on some really sort of big, shiny, sexy brands like 56 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:52,440 Coca-Cola and PlayStation and, you know, all of these really 57 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:54,840 cool places, cool, cool brands to work for. 58 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,600 But you were just, I was just lost in a Galaxy of 1000 other 59 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:02,000 people working on that account and, and, and just, you felt you 60 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,080 had no real impact. So to go from that and then to 61 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,200 go to actually a really genuinely interesting brand 62 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:12,800 products and work for a great team and and actually feel that 63 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:17,080 what you are doing and the decisions you are making are 64 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,200 actually having a direct impact for better or worse on on that 65 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,120 on that brand. So you really kind of get, well, 66 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,480 I personally get a lot of buzz at fat. 67 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,440 So yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 68 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,040 And as I say, I think it's nice to be able to get hands on to 69 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,040 something, actually put your heart and soul into it rather 70 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:33,840 than as you say, it's certainly the more corporate clients we'd 71 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,000 work with. It's like you're just pushing 72 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,640 paper around. And I, I, I do find that like 73 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,800 this, and I've said this a few times on the show, there is this 74 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,080 kind of, I would say kind of like mutual moan between small, 75 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,040 little nimble brands and big corporate heavyweight brands. 76 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,720 The big brands are like, oh, there's all these tiny companies 77 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,640 popping up out of nowhere with no stability, no proper 78 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,000 marketing strategy and they're eating into our market. 79 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,680 Plus you get the small guys going, Oh, I've only weird the 80 00:03:56,680 --> 00:03:59,320 budget of Amazon like, and you're kind of going and I kind 81 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:00,880 of said there's a, there's a flip side to all of that. 82 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:02,720 You are the big corporate machine. 83 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,120 Like you do one small thing really well, no one can touch 84 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,800 you. Whereas if you're the small 85 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,240 nimble brand, you can change your whole strategy in like 24 86 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:13,520 hours and really impress customers. 87 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:16,560 And actually, if you hit the headlines, it terrifies the big 88 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:18,519 companies. Sometimes it terrifies them into 89 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:20,680 making a mistake as well, which actually gives you a bit more 90 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,760 market share. Or you can offer something and 91 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:24,920 enter a space that they don't want to be in. 92 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:27,600 And then then you can start to become your own corporate one 93 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,400 day as well and starts growing. So that's basically if that's if 94 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,640 that's what you want and but tell us what the brand actually 95 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:32,840 sell. Like what do you guys actually 96 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:34,320 have on the store? Like what are the products? 97 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:39,720 So snuffing pig is essentially an indulgence brand. 98 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:45,320 It is a, it is a snack brand, primarily an ad. 99 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,960 It's very core. It's, it's taken the pork, the 100 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:51,760 humble pork scratching and, and brought it kicking and screaming 101 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:56,240 from the 70s into the, into the, into the 21st century. 102 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:03,320 And it was essentially started by our founder Nick Coleman. 103 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:09,800 And he, he's, it is a, it's a, it is, it is a very emotive 104 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,320 product. It is a product that gets people 105 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,280 talking. We know as a, as a product, a 106 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,640 pork scratching or pork crackling is, is not everyone's 107 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:21,240 cup of tea. And we're OK with that. 108 00:05:21,280 --> 00:05:23,640 You know, we're, you know, we're, we're not the healthiest 109 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,120 brand. We're not certainly not vegan 110 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,480 and you know, honestly with, you know, our sort of our carbon 111 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,800 footprint's probably not as as good as, as other, as other 112 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,000 brands and other products out there. 113 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,240 But what we are is we're honest and we're humble and we all 114 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:41,440 about getting people talking and bringing people together. 115 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,560 The emotive side of it is, is really sort of harking back to 116 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,640 sort of simpler times, as it were, but again, adding a bit of 117 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:56,320 sort of 21st century humour and, and colour and as and, and, and 118 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:59,280 fun into it and bring it to a whole new audience. 119 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,680 So yeah, that's, that's kind of the ethos of the brand. 120 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,040 The product itself is essentially flavoured pork 121 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,640 crackling. It's available in pubs, it's 122 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,600 available in supermarkets, but it's also gift able as well. 123 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,320 So you'll find it in your, you know, your gift shops, your John 124 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,720 Lewis's and your, your Selfridges and of course online 125 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,360 on Shopify, funnily enough, so. Good, good. 126 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,400 Absolutely. And I don't know if I've shown 127 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,720 you actually, but I am actually wearing our new shop Winning 128 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,200 with Shopify T-shirt, which will be available on a Shopify store 129 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,760 soon. Yeah, one of my colleagues was 130 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:31,840 running around wearing this last week. 131 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,400 And but no, just just to just to comment on the product. 132 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:36,320 And I think it's a really interesting product. 133 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,680 As you say, it's literally, it's being dragged out the 70s. 134 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,800 It's the kind of thing where you'd get a beer at a pub in 135 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:45,200 England or in the UK somewhere and you'd get either some pork 136 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,640 scratches or some crisps. Crisps if you want the slightly 137 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,920 healthier, lighter option. Pork scratches if you're 138 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:51,480 hardcore, but they're not good for you. 139 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,280 I I'm a massive fan, but they're not good for you. 140 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,520 It's yeah, it's true. It's true. 141 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,240 I mean, yeah, absolutely. I mean, we always think that, 142 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,400 yeah, you can get like crisps in a meal deal and everything, but 143 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,920 who wants that when you're, you know, once a week as it is an 144 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:07,600 indulgence. And it's not something that we 145 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:10,280 would recommend eating every day, but it is an indulgence. 146 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:11,440 It's not part of the five a day, is it? 147 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:14,920 No, it's about embellishing those moments that you do have, 148 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,160 those rare moments where you do get to catch up with your mates, 149 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:19,920 be it down the pub or in the cafe or, or wherever it is or 150 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:21,760 the picnic, whatever. And you just kind of, but it 151 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,000 gets you talking, it gets you smiling. 152 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,320 So no, exactly, exactly that. It's just that kind of to 153 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:30,520 celebrate those, those those joyous moments in life where 154 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:31,680 we're just connecting with people. 155 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,840 Absolutely, absolutely. And this isn't a question I've 156 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,480 got written down, but you've mentioned it and I know my 157 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:38,960 listeners will probably want to know this. 158 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,120 And the context of this question really is I and lots of others 159 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:44,640 have been on a mission for many years now to try and make 160 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:48,240 websites, specifically e-commerce sites look less like 161 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:51,280 an Amazon marketplace and more like a brand. 162 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,760 And I think the really the really hard bit of this, and I 163 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,360 say hard, it's strategically in terms of like a tactic, it's not 164 00:07:58,360 --> 00:08:00,480 hard, but deployment is really difficult. 165 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,920 And that's springing as you say that emotive side into this of 166 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,640 how do you bring that kind of 21st century branding, make it 167 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:08,560 fun. You mentioned like John Lewis, 168 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,160 which if I said to my wife, which I'm going to when I get 169 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:13,880 home to see what she says today, you know, like honey, did you 170 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,720 know you can buy these lovely premium gifting pork scratchings 171 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:18,840 in John Lewis? And for all of our American 172 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,000 listeners, I don't think you've got John Lewis in the US, but 173 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,400 it's like it's one of the more premium retailers in the UK. 174 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,440 So they have their own brand, but they mostly sell the brands. 175 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,920 It's all quite expensive, but they always have like a bit of a 176 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,360 price match thing going on. It's always extended warranty, 177 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,240 the customer service and the stores and the quality of 178 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:36,720 product is always incredibly high, which is the reason I'm 179 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,960 saying that as well as it's completely counter actually to 180 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,280 getting that product in a pub. So I guess a big question, 181 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,600 George, I know it's like this is almost like the secret sauce of 182 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,040 any business. How do you bring across that 183 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,840 emotive It's an indulgent product, it's fun, it's 21st 184 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,120 century branding. It's not the back shelf of a pub 185 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,320 covered in dust behind beer barrels anymore. 186 00:08:55,800 --> 00:08:58,400 How do you bring that across in pixels on a web page? 187 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,760 Well, it's interesting. First of all, the we, we try 188 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:08,360 our, I guess our roots and our soul is, is the pub, right. 189 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,040 So that's where that's like the mothership, if you like, in 190 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,720 terms of the experience and the, the, you know, trying to invoke 191 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:16,000 that kind of emotional side of things. 192 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:18,960 So it's kind of that sort of sense of humour as well that we, 193 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,920 we, we absolutely try to inject in every customer touch point to 194 00:09:22,920 --> 00:09:26,520 be on the packaging with the bright, bold colours right down 195 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:30,520 to the copy on the back. The it's kind of like a cheeky 196 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,000 the tone of voice is often described as more easily sort of 197 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:40,640 identified as sort of cheeky early to mid 90s schoolboy sort 198 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,240 of playground humour, but less but not in a kind of a bold 199 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,040 that. Is my era. 200 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,800 Yeah, well, that's that's me. I still am, but it it's not so, 201 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,760 you know, almost naff. In fact, the fact that I've used 202 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,960 the word naff is also. It's we need, we need our 203 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,920 marketing and branding to be naff guys, yeah. 204 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,520 I mean, kind of, but we, yeah. But even the word naff is just 205 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:03,800 oh, good. Yeah, I mean, even that just 206 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:05,560 dates me as well. But it's kind of it's it's a 207 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,000 throwback. So again, it's all that kind of 208 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,320 nostalgia piece. So whether it's on the 209 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,720 packaging, whether it's on our gift boxes, and when you find it 210 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,760 in John Lewis, it's important that it's recognised that it's 211 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,600 clear that it's a premium brand. It's not a cheap, there are 212 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:22,600 cheaper alternatives out there and there are sort of options 213 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,160 that you can get if you just want a plain, if you're a die 214 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,840 hard pork scratching fan, you probably won't be coming to us. 215 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,360 But if you're someone who's like, oh, I remember those and 216 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,960 actually this is fun. That's that's where we play. 217 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,760 So and how we communicate on the website And in fact, every 218 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:40,480 digital touch point, every every sort of line of communication we 219 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:43,600 have with our customers, we make sure that that that tone of 220 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:46,600 voice and generally that attitude is, is sort of come 221 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:48,040 across. It's got to be fun. 222 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,880 Otherwise, what's the point? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 223 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,560 And it reminds me actually quite, quite a lot of brands. 224 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:57,000 And ironically, they're all like vegan health brands as opposed 225 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,120 to your brand. But I, I love that you're always 226 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:01,640 trying to play in that same space, but with a, an 227 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:04,400 alternative product to the, you know, like I'm thinking oat 228 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,160 milk, for example. The amount of oat milk brands 229 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,680 when you read the back and it's like, hey, what do you mean no 230 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,360 cow? And and it like it uses quite 231 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,320 very conversational branding and content in that. 232 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,320 Certainly. I mean, I'm thinking, thinking 233 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,000 back, there's at least I won't mention them on the show today 234 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,080 still make you guys, but there's at least two other pork 235 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,560 scratching brands I remember. And again, I mentioned earlier, 236 00:11:22,560 --> 00:11:23,920 like back of the pub covered in dust. 237 00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:25,800 That's how I think about the product. 238 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,560 When almost when you say to a bar, you know, the bartender 239 00:11:28,560 --> 00:11:30,120 these days and say, like, Oh, can I have a packet of pork 240 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:31,280 scratchings? They're like some what? 241 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,840 And like those things like, Oh, no one's ever bought those 242 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:34,880 before. It's like. 243 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,400 It's literally. When I was a kid at the pub. 244 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,920 Yeah, yeah. But yeah, I remember going with 245 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,640 with dads and it was like, you can have a lemonade Nick, but 246 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:44,920 you can also help yourself to these. 247 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,920 And I'd be like, wow, that's so salty, dad and all this and 248 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:50,440 like, but I was like, I'm an adult now eating adult food. 249 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:52,360 And it's, it's funny, that's. How I remember them. 250 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:55,720 It's funny to say that our Co founder, sorry, our founder Nick 251 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:59,840 also he essentially that's what he's based. 252 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,560 That was the dream of the business. 253 00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:04,360 And he he the only difference between that story and and yours 254 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:07,280 is that he had a pint of Coke and he was, but he had the pork 255 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:08,560 scratchings. He said the same thing. 256 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:09,920 He felt like a. Coke is fuzz. 257 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:11,560 Well behaved that week, I think. Oh, OK. 258 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:12,800 Otherwise it was lemonade. Yeah. 259 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,600 Yeah. Other, other KOLA brands are 260 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:16,240 available, yeah. Yeah. 261 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:19,960 And say, I guess like I love your answers that by the way. 262 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,720 I think it's a really good way of looking at the brand and 263 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,760 going, OK, what actually resonates with customers? 264 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,760 I'm going to ask you a really, really hard question now. 265 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,040 How do you track if the branding is working? 266 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,160 Like how do you know? Then you make a change to the 267 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,960 content, you change the colour, you update it or refresh. 268 00:12:36,160 --> 00:12:38,360 How do you, rather than just looking at bottom line and going 269 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,680 when it went up, So it must have been a success, which quite 270 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,880 frankly, I know a lot of big corporate brands and agencies 271 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,160 would just look at that. How do people like you and I 272 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:47,800 actually get more into the detail, like what do you guys 273 00:12:47,800 --> 00:12:50,080 look at to go? Are we resonating with our 274 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,400 customers at the moment? Well, I would argue it's 275 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,040 probably easier for a larger brand to do that, who have the 276 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,600 resources and the dedicated teams and, and analysts to, to, 277 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:04,560 to do that. We, we, we don't have that. 278 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,880 We're just, we're just, we're a small plucky brand. 279 00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,000 We don't have that available to us. 280 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,720 But we do, of course, test and learn and look at content all 281 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:14,800 the time. The way I say it is, it's, it's, 282 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:20,200 it might be boring or it might be time consuming, but we sort 283 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,360 of boring in terms of a response, not in terms of what 284 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:27,400 we do is we just speak to our customers and we speak to them 285 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:28,760 on a daily basis through our customers. 286 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,480 And so we get all kinds of, we, we monitor feedback right across 287 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,240 the web and it's all qualitative feedback. 288 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:41,800 And the joy that we get from customers who you'll look on our 289 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,480 Trustpilot scores. And I'd say 20% of them are 290 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,160 referring to the giving us five stars out of five purely because 291 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:51,720 the, the little joke in the transactional e-mail, like the 292 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,680 e-mail confirmation that went through to them made them smile 293 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,920 or the subject line of an e-mail made them smile or, or some, 294 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,160 some comment we made on face. It's, that's the bits that are 295 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,640 telling us that it is working. And when you look at those 296 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,440 customers specifically when you dig down into the data, So 297 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,440 what's that profile? You know, they're customers that 298 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,080 have come back to us two, 3-4 times. 299 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:21,080 So really it's just, we've also seen our customer satisfaction 300 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,720 scores grow over the past sort of four to five years. 301 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:29,080 We've been, you know, we were on around sort of when you look at 302 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:33,000 the Trustpilot scores, we were around sort of three, 2 1/2, 303 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,160 three out of five at one point when we first started. 304 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,000 And then, you know, now we're kind of 4.54 point 6, I think 305 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,520 last time we checked. So, you know, just just that and 306 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,360 it and it's the the touch points that are are really sort of 307 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,440 helping, helping drive that. Yeah, I love that. 308 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:50,840 And we had a client recently that basically said to us like 309 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,000 how can we hear from customers without talking to them? 310 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:55,840 Just as a quick, what have we got? 311 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,640 And you mentioned reviews and reviews are such a powerful 312 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:00,880 place to do that. I think 1 issue I found is 313 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,160 sometimes I don't know if no one's got the attention span of 314 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:07,320 me, which is like I, I aspire to have the attention span of a 315 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,800 fish. At times I look at like 3 316 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,760 comments and trust I go, I've seen enough. 317 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:12,960 Like I know exactly what I'm doing. 318 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:17,400 We actually got for a client, we got Ava just a virtual assistant 319 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:21,440 on board for like a week. They weren't based in the UK, 320 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,480 costs weren't astronomical at all. 321 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,120 And we just said to them like, look, we've got 2000 reviews. 322 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,640 We want you to on every single review, just get a spreadsheet 323 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,040 and add a new column for a new thing. 324 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,040 If they spoke about delivery and no one else had add delivery in 325 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,640 a column. And then just, you know, tally 326 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:40,360 up how many people have mentioned good delivery, bad 327 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,880 delivery and just tally up kind of, you know, red crosses, green 328 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,640 ticks. And we use that just to create 329 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:48,920 some quantitative feedback. And one of the things we noticed 330 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,320 actually is about 20% of the reviews just said like, great 331 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,880 product, great service, it arrived on time. 332 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,320 Thanks guys. Five stars. 333 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,760 And it's like, that's cool. But actually we weren't getting 334 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,880 enough from those guys. So we went to Trustpilot. 335 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:04,920 We got a really good partnership with them here and we went to 336 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,800 them and said, can we adjust the emails to try and incentivize 337 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,960 them to do something else. So then we started trying to 338 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,240 get, we, I mean, we managed to get 5% of customers to actually 339 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:15,760 upload a picture of the product. That was incredible. the VA, we 340 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,200 needed them for two weeks this time. 341 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,400 So just to look at those to then tally up like, you know, what 342 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,400 room was it in? What color was the carpet? 343 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,400 Was it a well lit room, a bad lit room? 344 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:27,000 Were they using it for what seems like the products intended 345 00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:30,280 use here or not? Obviously different food and 346 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,240 drink because I mean going to take a selfie or somebody'd 347 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,240 mouth like that's not a good, that's not a good look, but. 348 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,160 We've seen some, we've seen some pictures in our time. 349 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,960 I can tell you. I'll tell you about one of those 350 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:41,960 in a minute. But yeah. 351 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:44,360 It's always when the waiter comes over to the table, isn't 352 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:45,080 it? And how's your food? 353 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,600 And you've just put a mouthful and you just, it's the kind of 354 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:50,880 response to the waiter. Yeah, that's, that's a real 355 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:53,400 gripe of mine when that happens. Like I'm, I'm a grumpy kid. 356 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:54,440 Yeah. So that kind of thing. 357 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:57,640 I know I now I've worked out a trick just make I contact with 358 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,160 other people on the table and go like has anyone has anyone not 359 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:02,600 got a mouth full of food? Otherwise just thumbs up. 360 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,119 Good. But yeah, we got them to then 361 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,520 look at those and we tried to incentivize people who, 362 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:10,280 especially if they reach out to customer service. 363 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:13,640 We, we then said, if and if we've resolved your query, could 364 00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,280 you leave us a review, please? And then they said, oh, these 365 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,240 guys, customer service is amazing. 366 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,839 And then it went, OK, let's put great customer service on the 367 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:22,319 site. We did that on an AB test. 368 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:24,800 Revenue went up slightly. Then we went, how do we really 369 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,400 bring that to life? Like do we use live chat? 370 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,360 Do we say like 9:00 to 5:00? We guarantee to reply within a 371 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:32,400 minute. Like we put that on the little 372 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,760 speech bubble, like get, you know, guaranteed one minute 373 00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:38,120 reply or 20% off. Those are your options. 374 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:40,920 And it was like we never gave a 20% off because somebody in the 375 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,280 team was always around. And what the owner did is his 376 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,080 customer service team. He had 20 people in the team. 377 00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,280 He said to them all like, look, I'm giving you all an extra 5% 378 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,320 salary if you install, if you let us connect to your WhatsApp. 379 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,080 So even if you're making a coffee or something, just get 380 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,120 back to that first message as fast as possible. 381 00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,400 Even if it's a thanks for your query. 382 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,120 It's going to take me a few minutes to look into this, but 383 00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:00,400 I'm on this. Regards Dave. 384 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,240 You know, like even if Dave's actually on the loo or making a 385 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,080 coffee or he's nipped out for a vape or something, like there's 386 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,800 something then going on. So you got that response. 387 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:11,640 But we realized that customer service was so important to the 388 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,800 product because people wanted to ask questions by merchants. 389 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:16,040 Yacht PO Which? You might be using is sunsetting 390 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,720 as e-mail and SMS products. You may have got an e-mail from 391 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,600 them, and if you haven't, this might be the first time you're 392 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,360 hearing about this. So if you have been using them, 393 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:24,040 then you might be wondering what's next? 394 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,240 Well, our sponsor Saguno has covered. 395 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,040 Saguno is the most deeply integrated e-mail marketing 396 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:31,720 platform for Shopify and makes switching really, really simple 397 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:33,960 with hands on onboarding, migration help and 398 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,720 deliverability expertise. Right now with code WWS 20, you 399 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:39,920 get 20% of your first three months with Saguno. 400 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,600 So don't let your marketing skip a beat. 401 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:46,080 Switch to Saguno today at saguno.com/winning with Shopify. 402 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:47,960 But go on, you've seen some things. 403 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,440 What was what was the most memorable thing that you've been 404 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,400 sent by a customer or seen on social? 405 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,600 We've got some, I mean one of the wonderful things about our 406 00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:01,160 customers is that they are, they are very loyal and they are very 407 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,080 passionate about, about their products. 408 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,400 And so they will equally, they'll tell us as soon as they, 409 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,440 you know, in no uncertain terms if they're unhappy, which is 410 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,160 absolutely great because that's what we want to hear from them. 411 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,440 You'd rather know. But also, but also they act 412 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,400 proactively, tell us when something was great. 413 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,240 And I, I, it gets me thinking, I can't remember the last time I 414 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,200 actually just told a brand. Thanks for this. 415 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,720 I think unless they've gone above and beyond and tried to, 416 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,320 you know, but, but, but someone who, who anyway, they, they, 417 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,880 they send in stuff about them enjoying their products. 418 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,960 And we've had so in our advent calendars, we have these sort of 419 00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:40,280 smaller packets. Obviously they've got to be 420 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:42,560 small because they've got to fit in the, the little advent doors. 421 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:48,600 But one one was such a die hard fan of these these products that 422 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,680 he he ordered, he wanted them ordered by the case. 423 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,880 So not not about the advent. He just wanted lots and lots of 424 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,640 little packets of this crackling. 425 00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,520 And OK, fine. So we sorted that out for him. 426 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:03,480 And then, you know, he took a picture really, which was was 427 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,280 both disturbing and hilarious at the same time. 428 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:09,200 Just completely stark naked. But just the only thing, the 429 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:13,040 only thing covering his his dignity was. 430 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,120 I don't mean to insult him, it was a small packet of crackling, 431 00:20:18,120 --> 00:20:21,000 but you know all I'm saying. It was the only thing that was 432 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,000 covering his dignity. And God love him, it was. 433 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:29,160 It was one of the most wonderful sort of, you know, spill your, 434 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,320 spill your coffee out, you know, these moments where you're like. 435 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:33,320 OK. As Head of Marketing, your work 436 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:35,840 here is done, George, and you've made it. 437 00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:38,360 It would have been lovely on social media. 438 00:20:38,360 --> 00:20:40,160 Yeah, I thought that's. Not no. 439 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,240 Yeah, there's a line, isn't there? 440 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,280 There's. A line, I think that's private. 441 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,280 Private use only, not. Yeah, it was private use, just 442 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,400 to be clear. We did. 443 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,240 We did have a client recently actually did a feedback survey 444 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,200 and the owners were like in two minds about this one mind. 445 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,160 They were like, it's good that we know that it's basically ad 446 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,400 female adult performers are our only target audience. 447 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,320 We thought we were sending stuff out for like, you know, a wife 448 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,480 to impress her husband in bed and whatever. 449 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,120 Actually it was adult performers and whatever else. 450 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,200 So they changed their photography to reflect that and 451 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,240 sales went up through the roof. And it was like, from a moral 452 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,000 perspective, I, I did have to kind of spend 5 minutes at home 453 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,400 that night just thinking like, is this something we want to 454 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,080 really help with? Do I even like this industry? 455 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,120 But it was I think it was just the the better you know that 456 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:27,720 that was their whole customer base. 457 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,720 Hopefully what you got was just one customer having a laugh. 458 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:33,840 But it but then you when you were saying about like you last 459 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,880 time you went over and above to like reach out to Brad say that 460 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,520 was just great guys who who thinks to go to know what naked 461 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,680 selfie Let's go. This all to the. 462 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,760 Brand. Yeah, I mean, a trust pilot 463 00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:45,680 review would have been lovely. You know, give us a 5 out of 464 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,680 five, But you know, anyway, some they say, they say feedback's a 465 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:50,640 gift, don't they? So there's. 466 00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,240 So many jokes I could make, but I won't. 467 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:54,680 We'll move on. We'll move on. 468 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,240 I appreciate that we've all we've all had stories like that 469 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,880 for sure. I mean talking, talking about 470 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,800 the brand and the evolution then like in in the early days and 471 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,440 certainly I mean you said, I think it's five years you've 472 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:05,280 said you've been there, haven't you? 473 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,440 So in the earlier days, like what, what were some of the key 474 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,320 challenges you guys had to overcome? 475 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:12,840 Like what were some of the things that you knew and had to 476 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:14,240 deal with? What were some of the things you 477 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,800 eventually found out were kind of didn't know initially? 478 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,440 Like what were some of those early hurdles? 479 00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:24,880 Well, I guess early, early in my time at at snaffling Pig it, it 480 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:28,200 wasn't long after that that COVID hit. 481 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,200 So obviously that was a big, that was a big challenge in in 482 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:35,760 many ways. But I think because we are, and 483 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,000 initially, you know, we, we are a pub snack brand essentially. 484 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,200 And then when all the pubs closed, that was that was both 485 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,400 unexpected, unprecedented and all those other and. 486 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,960 Shops as well. Your shop supermarkets as well, 487 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,560 who were also a big part, you know, so you had like some Tesco 488 00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:53,800 and Sainsbury's who were unable to, to, to sell our stock and, 489 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,160 and, or, or to, you know, there were backlogs and all kinds of 490 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:57,360 stuff. So all that stuff which we don't 491 00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,800 need to necessarily go into again, but it was, it was a 492 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,080 challenge, but it was actually Shopify that came to the rescue 493 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,160 for us in terms of we already had that and it was well 494 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,600 established. We've had Shopify for, you know, 495 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,800 for like 9-10 years now. So early, early adopters of it. 496 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:17,200 So our D to C has always been very strong. 497 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:21,480 So while those parts of the businesses sort of stumbled or, 498 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:26,000 or, or or shut down for a period of time, you know, everything 499 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,520 kind of went all Shopify really. So I think my, my advice would 500 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:35,720 be that don't put all your eggs in, in one basket and 1 channel 501 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,120 if, if at all possible. And snaffling pig is fortunately 502 00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:43,080 a brand that can kind of, it's been designed to sort of span 503 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:49,240 everything from gifting to FMCG to, you know, to say, to, to pub 504 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,920 snacks and to to fitness snacks as well. 505 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,040 So it's kind of it's it's de risks in that kind of way. 506 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,360 So I'd say if, wherever possible that you if you can be multi 507 00:24:00,360 --> 00:24:06,240 channel and you can definitely use online as your call if you 508 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,080 can. So you have most control. 509 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:12,240 But yeah, I think just kind of keep, keep, keep keep spreading 510 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,360 risk in, in that respect, because it means that you can 511 00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:19,600 keep going beyond any, any hurdles in the in the road that, 512 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,720 you know, it doesn't even have to be as big as COVID. 513 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:23,520 It can be, it can be anything that comes up. 514 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,880 It just means that you can kind of, yeah, de risk. 515 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,760 Yeah. And I think one of the most 516 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,520 stressful things, like, I mean, I run my own business here, it's 517 00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:33,520 it's the stuff that you can't control. 518 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,600 Like when I think COVID was the, I don't say the only time, but 519 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,040 one of the times I started using the phrase like, we're really 520 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,920 lucky. Like I've always taken the 521 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,120 approach, like, you make your own luck. 522 00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:45,760 Like you work really hard, you make connections and oh, look, 523 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,480 magic, the phone's ringing. Someone goes, oh, I met you. 524 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:49,720 You left a good impression on me. 525 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:50,720 And I know someone who needs your help. 526 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,400 So here's an opportunity for you. 527 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,800 And the phone rings. But I do think during COVID, it 528 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:57,640 was one of the only times I've actually said like we were lucky 529 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,120 to be in a digital space. And as you say, brands like 530 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,200 yourself were like suddenly obviously not work with you 531 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,720 guys, but brands like yourselves were like, well, we need to, we 532 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,480 need to go so much harder online now and go hard digitally. 533 00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,400 And we actually quite a few clients that were working on web 534 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,400 migrations or Shopify theme rebuilds, we actually said like, 535 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,360 look, March COVID hit. So let's wait until after 536 00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:20,720 December, after peak, if peak, if peak was Christmas for that 537 00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:23,280 particular brand, wait till after that to launch anything. 538 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,760 We just optimize the hell out of everything we've got right now 539 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,520 and just go for it because we launched a new site and 540 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,400 conversion drops, it's going to have a massive impact. 541 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,720 But I think I really, I really appreciate what you're saying 542 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,360 actually about de risking. There's a brand we're talking to 543 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,720 at the moment about potentially working with which they're 544 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,520 really well known for all their kind of heaters and other stuff, 545 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,880 which is good for the winter. But all their air conditioners 546 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,240 and coolers, well, they're good for summer and they're not very 547 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,400 well known for that. But that is part of their new 548 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:51,800 three-year plan to start that, as you say, de risking process. 549 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:53,840 And I think it's, it's certainly a good move. 550 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,480 And I used to run my own sunglasses brand and guess what, 551 00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,080 8 months of the year, no one was buying sunglasses. 552 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,520 Well, hardly anyone was buying sunglasses. 553 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:01,720 So we basically just put the whole business on pause and 554 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,320 suddenly it was like, oh, sun's out today, turn Google ads on. 555 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,680 And that was then, you know, kind of start selling stuff, 556 00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:07,760 but. It's true. 557 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,080 I mean, and actually, funnily enough, you know, we've spoke 558 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,160 about the Advent calendar and obviously that's, that's, that's 559 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,200 how we, we got famous because we're on, we're on Dragon's Den 560 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,680 and we won investment on Dragon's Den about 8-9 years ago 561 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,440 now. And that was a great PR PR 562 00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:27,920 moment for us. Yeah, it's kind of it's money 563 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,440 comp by PR basically. He just, it was just fantastic. 564 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:34,680 And, and we're still kind of riding on the, the coattails of 565 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:35,960 that. Essentially people know us. 566 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,760 And there's this long tale of those kind of videos because 567 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,600 some, some guy on YouTube is now making a lot of money out of the 568 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,160 kind of these. He was one of the first to 569 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,400 upload like the best of clips And and he's making a lot of 570 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,920 money out of the Snapping Pig brand, which is, you know, 571 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:53,160 that's yeah, early Kudos to fair enough. 572 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,640 Yeah, he's the. Git, the little git, but no, but 573 00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:58,920 it's good. But yeah, so it's kind of long 574 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,960 term, but actually it helps us as well because it's it's you 575 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,400 know, it's it's on there quite, quite regularly. 576 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,720 But so the advent Canada was is what we were kind of we were 577 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,040 famous for. It was our kind of, it was thing 578 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,640 that gets people talking the most. 579 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,960 Obviously very seasonal. So we're thinking, well, you 580 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,480 know, people go on holiday in the summer. 581 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,160 They're probably not, yeah, they might go to the pub and have a 582 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:20,800 bag of crackling or a bag of scratchings. 583 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,320 But you know, if as an indulgent snack it, it tends to lend 584 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,640 itself more to the autumn, winter and Christmas sort of 585 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:31,280 periods. So we thought what any other 586 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,240 snack brand should do is, well, we'll sell barbecues then. 587 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:39,080 So we still, we've branded Kamado barbecues. 588 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,800 So kind of like there's another brand out there which is green 589 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:49,560 and there's, there's there are various Komodo type brands out 590 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,800 there which are like the leading sort of market competitors. 591 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:56,960 We, we created our own, we branded our own and actually we 592 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,120 got some fantastic reviews and we went head to head against 593 00:28:00,120 --> 00:28:04,840 them in like the market leader in in reviews by the 594 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:09,160 independent. And we actually came out as a 595 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,840 much better value option than actually just goes, goes toe to 596 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,440 toe with the competitor, something that we don't even 597 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,120 specialized in. But again, that was us sort of 598 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,360 de risking and also trying to kind of iron out some of the 599 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,080 lumps and bumps of the year where you're just like where the 600 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,160 more kind of quiet moments. We've got other things where, 601 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,040 OK, there's other bits that can kind of keep going. 602 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,560 And the BBQ was still is still going good gums. 603 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,480 So it's it's I'm pretty sure we're the only company in the 604 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:40,040 world that sell snacks, advent calendars and barbecues. 605 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:42,280 Is a very random mix. Yeah. 606 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:45,280 But it kind of, yeah, it works. Yeah, it does. 607 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:46,600 It works. And that's, that's part of the 608 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,080 silliness of the brand which we which we love so. 609 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,920 I just want to give a quick shout out to our sponsors Yost, 610 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,680 they are the go. To tool for getting your content 611 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,480 SEO ready and Google loved from keywords to readability and 612 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,480 those all important meta tags which I know a lot about Yost 613 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,960 makes it easy Right now our listeners can get 15% off all 614 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,800 WordPress purchases if you use the Yost plugin and WordPress 615 00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:09,400 and also on monthly Shopify plans for your first six months. 616 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:15,480 Just use the code WWS 15 S WWS 15 at checkout@yost.com. 617 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,040 That's WWS 1550% off for better visibility, more clicks and 618 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,320 healthier. Website let Yoast handle the SEO 619 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,120 so you can focus on what you do best. 620 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,040 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I mean a couple more 621 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,520 questions then I think we've got time for at least at least two 622 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,360 more. One of them is about customer 623 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:31,880 retention. Obviously, we spoke a lot about 624 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,080 brand, about DE risking products, about having a good 625 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,960 range of products without actually I mean, barbecues and 626 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:39,200 avid cannons. You've not deviated from pork 627 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,040 scratchings really. You've evolved into other spaces 628 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,280 and I think it's a good way to do it. 629 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:44,960 But how do you guys retain customers? 630 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:46,640 Like do people just love the product? 631 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:47,960 Do you do some really smart e-mail? 632 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:50,920 Is it so short? Is it the jokes on the back, as 633 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:52,840 you say? Like, is it that you've created 634 00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,480 a community behind it? Like might be a mix of all those 635 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,240 things, but yeah. Tell us it is it is a mix of all 636 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,280 those things. I don't think so. 637 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,640 We see social media very much. We are not content creators. 638 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,880 We don't you know, we're a small leading team. 639 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:09,440 We focus on selling a good product and and good customer 640 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,360 service. So social media for us, it's in, 641 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,160 in and of itself it's fine. But we use it very much as more 642 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,600 of a channel, another channel just to talk with our customers 643 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:21,720 directly. And actually it's the kind of 644 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,520 offline or the kind of the private messages, the sliding 645 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:27,360 into the DMS bit, which is where the pig and magic happens as it 646 00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:29,160 were. We are very much it's, it's 647 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,760 with, it's conversational. So we take that conversation 648 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,880 approach through our emails, through our website, for our 649 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,400 online chat, through our social media, through Trustpilot 650 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:40,640 reviews. People can get in touch, they 651 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,960 can just say the word and we'll get, we'll end up getting in 652 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,000 touch with them and then we'll have a proper conversation with 653 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,720 them as humans. That's why. 654 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,080 And, and as I said before, the, you know, the, the customer 655 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,960 satisfaction has, has, has gone, you know, through the roof. 656 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,680 And I truly believe that's why people come back to us. 657 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:01,840 It's yes, they love the product and they think it's a fun 658 00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:04,600 product and a fun experience. But if you can make you see 659 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:09,720 here, The thing is, our website is primarily a gift, a gifting 660 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,960 website. And we believe that, and this 661 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,520 is, this is true. We believe that buying a gift 662 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,520 should be as fun as receiving one. 663 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,320 In fact, I'd argue actually, I, I find buying gifts more fun 664 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:22,840 than receiving. I hate receiving gifts. 665 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:25,400 But if you can buy a gift and make the person who's bought the 666 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,840 gift feel good about buying that gift, that's the, that's the 667 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,720 sweet spot. So that's why in the transaction 668 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,440 emails, we make it, we celebrate the fact they've got this and 669 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,000 they've done this, you know, they've, they've done a good 670 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,160 thing for their mate or their husband or their wife or 671 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:40,720 whatever. And yeah, we kind of, we 672 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:42,480 celebrate that. So we really believe that kind 673 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,400 of experience has been key to key to attention. 674 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,680 But yes, we use Clavio, we use, we use Gorgeous as well. 675 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,600 Shout out to those guys as well. The Gorgeous app is is. 676 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:54,680 Fantastic. Yeah, they've sponsored the 677 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,160 podcast before as well. We love gorgeous. 678 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:57,880 Yeah, yeah. No, they, they're really, you 679 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,280 know, they've been as a tool, it's just, it's just incredible. 680 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,720 And yeah. So we just use a mix and 681 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,160 everything, just make sure that everything, everything kind of 682 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,920 works and things together. We sync everything we can, any 683 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,960 kind of data points we can sync and make sure that it's all 684 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,400 available and across all touch points. 685 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,040 But it's, yeah, essentially it's just, it's making sure the 686 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,360 conversation keeps happening. Just talk to the customers you 687 00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:25,600 know. Doesn't have to be fancy. 688 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,480 Yeah, and I think just just add on the point about gorgeous as 689 00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:31,360 well. We we had them on a year or so 690 00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,520 ago, but they sponsored I think 3 or 4 times the show and 691 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:35,560 they've been on quite a lot. So if anyone listening is like 692 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,680 what on earth is gorgeous? It's GORGIAS and I think it's 693 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:43,160 dot IO be a gorgeous is it's such a good tool because you're 694 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,800 probably using it for exactly the same thing, George. 695 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,840 You can connect up like literally everything customer 696 00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:53,240 sends an e-mail Adm on Facebook Messenger Instagram, TikTok yeah 697 00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,240 whether they send you a WhatsApp as an SMS even if they phone up 698 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,760 gorgeous can know about all of that it has AI you can have pre 699 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,800 written responses. One point I would make about it 700 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,320 is, and in a way I think to use it really effectively is I read 701 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,960 a study a couple of weeks ago when I was sitting on the train 702 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:13,320 just browsing LinkedIn, study popped up of how to nail 703 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,160 customer service. And one of the things it said is 704 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,800 even if you have say the customer, there's 8 messages in 705 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,000 this thread with a customer. Even if eight different people 706 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,560 in your team reply keep the same name. 707 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,240 Because one of the things that customers hate is when it's 708 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,320 like, oh, Sam's messaged me and you go customer, especially when 709 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,160 the customer goes, hi Sam, thanks for that. 710 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,000 Can I ask then about this or when's it going to arrive, 711 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,480 whatever the question is. And then Janet responds and 712 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,400 you're like, oh, sorry, I was talking to Sam. 713 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,280 I'll hi Janet. And then Wahid comes back next. 714 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,080 You're like, oh, now I'm talking to Wahid and I was talking to 715 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,240 Janet and before that he was like, it's a mess. 716 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:49,680 Even if it's different people, gorgeous. 717 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,120 You could put the same signature, can't you, for that 718 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,880 customer just to say regards Sam. 719 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:55,240 So you're like Sam at snuffling pig. 720 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,160 He sorts me out. He knows exactly what I need to 721 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:58,160 do and I talk to him all the time. 722 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:02,480 Yeah, exactly. And I, I just keep it, Yeah, we 723 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,200 just sign it off Team SP like team snapping pig, and we sign 724 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,920 off with a kiss and it's done. And they just know that it's the 725 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,080 same. Signing up for the kiss is nice 726 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:11,560 touch as well. Yeah, definitely. 727 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:14,480 Part of the person, yeah, there's there's times to not do 728 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:19,239 the kiss and there's but but the guy with the. 729 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,440 Product put me in hospital. Hope it goes well. 730 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,840 Kiss. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 731 00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,760 No, the guy, the guy with the the Advent packet covering his 732 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:29,520 dignity, he he got a couple of kisses. 733 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:34,440 So yeah, he's OK. Yeah, God forbid what he'll send 734 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,400 back next. Cool. 735 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,920 And the last question, which you kind of started to cover a 736 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,080 little bit anyway, I was going to say, what are some of the 737 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,960 apps you can't live without? You mentioned Clavio, of course 738 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,159 we want to, we want to know Clavio. 739 00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:46,320 Our shout outs to Guno because they are our sponsor and I 740 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,480 genuinely believe they're better and I like, I prefer to them, to 741 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,320 the Guno than I use Clavio. But Clavio is a very popular 742 00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,440 tool and it does work very well. Obviously gorgeous. 743 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,080 What other apps could you guys not live without on your Shopify 744 00:34:56,080 --> 00:35:01,000 store? Recharge for subscriptions for 745 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:06,600 sure, smaller lesser known one perhaps, but it's orderly. 746 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,640 Check those out. So they're very simple, like a 747 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:14,960 really lovely, again, I've spoken a lot about customizing 748 00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,800 transactional messages or any kind of form of communication, 749 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,240 but it just it what it does is it just enables you just to take 750 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,640 the Shopify standard template and actually just make it a bit 751 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:28,320 more fun and engaging. And that's been absolutely key. 752 00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:31,440 Yeah, absolutely. Because. 753 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,040 Those messages can be very dry as well. 754 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,120 I mean, we're talking too much today. 755 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,000 But yeah, just just to make a point, you can be so dry. 756 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:38,000 Like your order is confirmed and then you get a delivery 757 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,120 notification from the brand, followed by one from the 758 00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:42,600 delivery company, followed by one from the local Courier. 759 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,360 And you're like, who's got the package? 760 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,680 And that's and that's something, yeah. 761 00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:49,960 And I think, you know, to your point earlier about sort of 762 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,000 Amazon, if you want the kind of the dry utilitarian approach 763 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:56,840 show with Amazon, that's fine. If you're an Amazon Prime 764 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,080 customer, you're not expecting any love, that's fine. 765 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:00,880 But that's where we have a point of difference. 766 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,960 And, and, and those kind of apps it gorgeous or, or Clavio or, or 767 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,880 or orderly or any of these kind of little apps, big and small. 768 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:13,400 Some are free, some are expensive. 769 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:13,720 Some. Yeah. 770 00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,760 But that all I, I, I choose which ones to use based on, OK, 771 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:21,600 will it add, will it sprinkle some of that love for the 772 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,840 customer? And that might sound a bit 773 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,280 cheesy, but doesn't mean that they'll get oh, I like that 774 00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:26,640 they'll get a little kick out of it. 775 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,440 And if if the customer sees it, let's do it, great. 776 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:31,960 Cool. No, I absolutely love that. 777 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,960 And I think I mean, certainly as someone who works in SEO, first 778 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,560 thing we do on on page speed on on Shopify is go like, right, 779 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,200 let's have a look on Google Chrome, inspect what bits of 780 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,520 JavaScript are firing. Oh, look, 45% of your JavaScript 781 00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,240 is failing. I wonder what apps you've got 782 00:36:46,240 --> 00:36:47,480 and you go in the apps in the back. 783 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:48,960 And I mean, we found one for a client. 784 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,080 I, I it's called James. I know you listen to podcast, 785 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:51,680 James. Hello. 786 00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,000 But we flagged it to you last week, James, about page speed. 787 00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,880 And actually these guys had an app that like puts a countdown 788 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:00,600 on when a sale is ending, but they don't do sales very often. 789 00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,240 But the app's always running. So it's always in the page load 790 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,400 and that adds like nought .7 seconds and like 2 seconds is 791 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:08,080 the target. So it's literally something we 792 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,200 don't use. So that and we also say to 793 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:13,040 people as well things like Hot Jar, Microsoft Clarity, like to 794 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,040 monitor how people are using the pages. 795 00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,240 And I would recommend Microsoft Clarity of a hot Jar. 796 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:18,720 I love hot jar. You have to pay for it. 797 00:37:18,720 --> 00:37:21,040 Microsoft Clarity is better and it's free as you say like some 798 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,960 of them are and but only run that when you're going to look 799 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,520 at the reports the rest of the time turn it off because it does 800 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:31,000 Mics of clarity seems to have a much lower page load than than 801 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,520 hot job. But yeah, certainly mics of 802 00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,840 clarity, everybody use that. I'm a massive advocate of that 803 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,160 tool and also like Bing is growing so like Microsoft, 804 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,240 you've got Bing there as well so get get involved in the suite of 805 00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:41,880 things. There are some good 806 00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,800 opportunities on there but equally mics of clarity don't 807 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,360 have it running on your site all the time. 808 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:48,800 Just put it on maybe like two days a month or something, 809 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:51,080 monitor what's going on, take it back off, keep that page, be 810 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,640 nice and quick. And also like if you look at 811 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,120 your sales data, if you know, on the 9th and 10th of the month, 812 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,560 you're miles from payday, so no one's buying anything or 813 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,680 actually AUS brand. So you've got kind of two 814 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,840 paydays going on every month. Yeah, look at when it's at its 815 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,000 lowest and turn it on those two days when it's going to have 816 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,520 less impact. And ideally early in the low 817 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,160 impact, say Google's got time to go. 818 00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,560 Oh yeah, the pages get faster again, so you can see what's 819 00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:12,960 going on. But I certainly, yeah, there's 820 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,000 so many. You guys probably do do it. 821 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:16,240 I'm afraid everybody seems to do it. 822 00:38:16,240 --> 00:38:17,600 But it's like, oh, there's an app for that. 823 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:18,720 Add that. Oh, there's an app for that. 824 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:19,840 Add that. And next thing you know it's 825 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,480 like and if you can have one app, it does 5 things like like 826 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:26,320 Gorgeous does that covers like 5 bases from live chat to all your 827 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,040 social. Use that one in as many places 828 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,040 as possible, because then it's one app that's loading. 829 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:36,080 Every every app adds a little bit of code onto the site and it 830 00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:39,200 just slows it down a little bit. And to be honest, I do need to 831 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,840 get onto the snafu pig one to clean up some code because it's 832 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,680 it's probably a bit like a Petri dish of of code at the moment. 833 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:50,120 So maybe, maybe I'll give you a shout after this. 834 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,560 Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely fine. And the last tip, I'll give you, 835 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:56,040 George and everybody listening as well as if you put all your 836 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,960 analytics and tracking tools into Google Tag Manager, you 837 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,280 load one code then fires off to all the other places rather than 838 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,320 you're loading like Pixel from Pixel and you're loading Google 839 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,840 Analytics from Google Analytics. And then even Google Analytics 840 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,560 and Google Ads tracking tags are different and they come from two 841 00:39:11,560 --> 00:39:13,480 different Google servers. Actually, if you use Google Tag 842 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:14,760 Manager and put it all in there, it just loads. 843 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,400 It loads them all in one go through one thing, which again, 844 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,640 saves on page loads. The only thing I would say is 845 00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:22,680 just be really careful of cookie banners these days. 846 00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,920 We've had clients where the cookie in fact 6 clients are. 847 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:27,560 Clients before the cookie banner. 848 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,960 Yeah, some of it fires before they've accepted cookies, and 849 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:33,040 other times whether they accept or decline cookies, it doesn't 850 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,680 fire either way. So then you have no analytics. 851 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,400 Which is a bit of a oh wow, so it's one or the other. 852 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:41,560 It is indeed. And also like, we don't know 853 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,320 exactly what yet, but there's going to be a big change that in 854 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,200 December this year. So don't worry guys, we'll be 855 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,360 talking about loads on the show. It is my bread and butter. 856 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:50,800 So I will be doing episodes on it as we did with GA four and 857 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,080 everything else. But yeah, there's going to be a 858 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,080 big change to cookies. It looks like Google Chrome 859 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:57,360 might actually go cookieless in December, which could have any 860 00:39:57,360 --> 00:39:58,920 number of effects. Things. 861 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,240 They normally announce the date and then knock it back at least 862 00:40:01,240 --> 00:40:03,600 one, possibly three years. So we might be fine. 863 00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,960 But the EU is waging war on cookies and no one understands 864 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,200 why. Still, no ones personal data has 865 00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,360 really been lost anywhere apart from hacks and they're still 866 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,320 happening so. You know, we could talk about 867 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:14,600 that all day. But look, George, I really 868 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,000 appreciate your time. It's been so good to have you on 869 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,080 the show. I've got, I always show 870 00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:19,760 everybody this at the end. Like I've got a massive long 871 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,520 list of notes, which I'm also would have read out in the intro 872 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,520 having recorded that after this. But George, I want to say a 873 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:25,720 massive thank you. Thank you for joining us. 874 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:27,840 Thanks for being so humble, sharing all your insights and I 875 00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:28,800 really appreciate your time today. 876 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,520 Thank you, Nick. Thank you so much. 877 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,520 Sales tax is overwhelming. Never mind the stress that comes 878 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,800 with a provider that's overpriced, unreliable, or 879 00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:38,520 leaves you waiting days to get a reply. 880 00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,440 Tax Cloud is here to tell you there's a better way. 881 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,880 They're not just at all. They're a trusted filing partner 882 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,320 for growing Shopify brands. They will work directly with the 883 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,560 states on your behalf to handle registrations, filings, and 884 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,040 ongoing compliance so you can stay focused on growing your 885 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,000 business. Plus, with a 4.9 star rating on 886 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,440 the Shopify App Store, merchants trust Tax Cloud to get it right. 887 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,720 And you can too. Go ahead and check them out at 888 00:40:59,720 --> 00:41:02,360 taxcloud.com Forward slash winning. 889 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,160 This is exclusive for the Winning Shop 5 podcast listeners 890 00:41:05,240 --> 00:41:08,320 and you will get a free migration on boarding service 891 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:09,480 when you decide to make the switch. 892 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,280 So that's tax cloud.com/winning.