1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:05,600 Hello and welcome to another episode, the Winning with 2 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:07,520 Shopify podcast. For anyone that's not tuned in 3 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,080 before, Oh my gosh, where have you been? 4 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,480 We've had such amazing guests recently sharing some incredible 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,720 stories and great advice. We also run a thing called 6 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:19,240 Growth Hub. So check out wwspodcast.com or 7 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:23,200 on website Winning with Shopify podcast, but wwspodcast.com, 8 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,480 check out our website, head over to Growth Hub. 9 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:27,640 It's just a page in the NAV and join the Growth Hub. 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,720 It's for brands and merchants only, people all like yourself. 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,960 You can talk to each other and discuss stuff. 12 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,440 We've got some incredible guests coming to round tables. 13 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,280 It's completely free. There is no reason not to join. 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,600 So if you haven't joined yet, you are a complete numpty. 15 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:42,320 Please get involved. You're not really a numpty, but 16 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,520 I would love you to join in with what we're doing on there. 17 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,160 That would be amazing. So the big topic TikTok. 18 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:49,600 How do you make millions on TikTok? 19 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,480 Well, I recently met recorded a trailer saying that there was no 20 00:00:52,480 --> 00:00:54,680 secret way to make millions on TikTok and there isn't. 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,840 But I did have an incredible guest today who's gone viral on 22 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,520 Instagram. Instagram themselves with their 23 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:06,320 80 million followers shared a couple of her posts and she was 24 00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:11,240 inundated with A2 year waiting list of customers as a result of 25 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,160 one post. And then a couple of years 26 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,120 later, TikTok launched. She has over 300,000 followers 27 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,080 on TikTok, which for a business where she is one person in the 28 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,040 business is absolutely incredible. 29 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,600 I have my hit list of topics. If you haven't tuned in before, 30 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:25,840 this is one of my favourite bits of the show is relaying some of 31 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:26,920 the random things we spoke about. 32 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,240 So we spoke about preserving bugs, getting lucky graduation 33 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:36,000 caps, waiting lists, Donald Trump and the fact that this is 34 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,200 that I share in the episode the fact that he is now poorer than 35 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,600 when he was born. And I fact checked it just now 36 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:43,560 before recording this intro. And it is true. 37 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:45,800 I heard at the pub the other day and I just checked it. 38 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:48,320 We spoke loads about TikTok obviously going viral. 39 00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:50,400 How to build a two year waiting list of customers. 40 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:51,960 You don't see any marketing for at least two years. 41 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,360 And then also how do you future proof that up to nearly seven 42 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,240 years out of paranoia so exciting. 43 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,600 Kim's got such a cool journey and automating e-mail AI bots 44 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:05,360 and planning for catastrophes, creating an argument on social 45 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,960 media by saying the wrong thing on a news outlet being 46 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,600 interviewed on the on the national news in the US and 47 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,840 social stories getting irrelevant followers and how to 48 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,120 avoid them, inviting conversation from customers on 49 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,960 social and abandoned car. No reason not to tune into this 50 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:22,760 episode and listen to every single word that comes from Kim. 51 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,120 She's absolutely incredible. And so I hope you enjoyed 52 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,440 today's episode. If you haven't already, hit 53 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,560 subscribe, leave us a review and join the growth hub. 54 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:31,200 Thanks for tuning in. So Kim, welcome to the show. 55 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:32,960 How are you? I am doing well. 56 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:36,280 How are you? Yes, very well, thank you, very 57 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:38,400 well. And if anyones looking at Kim 58 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:41,200 and I and going Nick, you look a bit tired and Kim like what time 59 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,840 is it where you are Kim? What time is it where you are 60 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,160 right now? It is the middle of the night, 61 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,160 it is 1:00 AM and I'm wide awake. 62 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,360 And why on earth are you wide awake at 1:00 AM? 63 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,600 So funny story, I've always just been like a night owl and then 64 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,080 when I became an adult and was able to make my own routine and 65 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,600 schedules, I found that my brain is on fire at night and during 66 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,600 the day it's just a haze. So I usually work from about 67 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,960 6:00 PM to 6:00 AM and that's my normal schedule. 68 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,680 I really I really like 1:00 AM interview. 69 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,840 Yeah, yeah. I was never quite that intense 70 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:12,480 with it. It was never quite as as late as 71 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,400 that. But I've always been a bit of a 72 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,600 night out, like 2:00 AM would be a normal bedtime for me. 73 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,400 And I wake up at 9 or 10 in the morning. 74 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,200 But since getting married, I, yeah, I now go to bed at 8:00 PM 75 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:22,280 and wake up at 6:00 AM. Very. 76 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:25,480 Long sleep every. I'm non functional before noon. 77 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,520 Yeah, indeed. I I do find myself trying to go 78 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:30,600 to sleep at night and my brain's like now 1,000,000 miles an 79 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:31,520 hour. I'm like, where was all this 80 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:33,080 energy during the day when I needed it? 81 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,640 Exactly. But anyway, look, Kim, it's 82 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,480 lovely to have you on the show. And we ask all of our guests 83 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,400 when we first start, when we first kick off, tell us a little 84 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,760 bit about yourself and most importantly, tell us a bit about 85 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:45,560 the business as well. Like what kind of what kind of 86 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:48,760 business do you run? Well, you know who I am and my 87 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,920 business go hand in hand. I've always been a super crafty, 88 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,520 creative, artistic person. I've had a million hobbies over 89 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,760 the course of my life. And you know, I never planned on 90 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,040 owning a business. It just kind of happened and 91 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,880 morphed into it because I was the crafty friend and the 92 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,400 artistic friend I was in college and I had some girlfriends, you 93 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,000 know, a year older who were graduating and it, it was this 94 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,160 new thing to start decorating your grad caps. 95 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,079 And they had not one artistic bone in their body. 96 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:19,040 And they asked me, I used to make the posters for our clubs 97 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:20,200 and you know, all that good stuff. 98 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:22,000 And they're like, Hey, we know you paint. 99 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:23,480 Can you help us decorate our caps? 100 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,680 I was like, sure, never done it before, but you know, I helped 101 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,520 them out. And then a year later I did my 102 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,520 own cap and a handful of other people. 103 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:34,040 And as soon as we uploaded all those photos to social media, 104 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:39,200 like it, it blew up in a way that I can't even explain until 105 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,960 we get into the social media aspect of it. 106 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,960 But yeah, I, you know, I tried to go the traditional route and 107 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,800 get a job in what I studied for, which to be like was to be a 108 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,840 school translator, you know, work with children in Spanish 109 00:04:53,840 --> 00:04:56,880 and English. And I only lasted a month before 110 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,080 I realised that it was just not for me. 111 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,520 And my business was calling my name and I was just being pulled 112 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,280 towards it, you know, because who does arts and crafts full 113 00:05:05,280 --> 00:05:07,000 time? That wasn't a thing for me to 114 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:09,840 realistically jump into until I did. 115 00:05:09,840 --> 00:05:13,880 And then here I am, you know, nine years later, full time, who 116 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,360 I am just became my business. I tend to monetize all of my 117 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,800 hobbies and, you know, things I used to do for fun, I now do for 118 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,360 business. And it's just been, it's been 119 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:27,000 really great to pour myself into what I do. 120 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,280 Yeah, yeah. And I'm going to ask a 121 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,160 completely off topic question just because you raised it. 122 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:33,560 You said you've had a million hobbies. 123 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,400 What was the most random hobby? And then we'll talk about grad 124 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,480 caps. Oh, I don't know if I'm ready to 125 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:44,160 show the world. OK, random, very random and kind 126 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:48,200 of recent. I started preserving bugs in 127 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:53,840 resin, like dead bugs. I'm very afraid of bugs. 128 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:57,880 And I saw a dead wasp one day and I because it was dead, I was 129 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,920 able to look at it closer and it made me less scared of it. 130 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:02,520 And I was like, you know what? I should preserve? 131 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:05,520 I should preserve it. And now I have a very small 132 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:07,640 little bug collection. I actually have a dried 133 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:12,480 dragonfly that my godson found and I'm very excited to put it 134 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,480 in resin but it is a very weird hobby that not a lot of people 135 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,120 understand. But I like it and it's very 136 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,240 random. That is creative. 137 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:21,960 Are you one of the people, one of those people that like when 138 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:24,360 you walk around any kind of shop, instead of buying an item, 139 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:26,600 you go, I could grow that, I could make that. 140 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,520 I could cut that. I could create a better version 141 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:29,440 than that. Yeah. 142 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:30,800 I've got a couple of friends like that and they. 143 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:31,680 Yeah. What? 144 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:34,520 One of them we literally buying tomatoes in the supermarket. 145 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,240 And he was like, I could just buy a tomato plant instead of 146 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,760 buying twenty of those and make my own tomatoes. 147 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:41,480 I'm also a plant. EBay. 148 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,600 He's like top tomato plant seller of the year eBay. 149 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,520 I'm a plant. I'm a plant person and that's 150 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,600 probably the only hobby I have that I have not monetized. 151 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:52,480 It's for fun. It's really for fun. 152 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:55,200 But I grow my own cilantro, chilies, all that good stuff. 153 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:57,680 Nice, nice. Anyway, as I said, we'll talk 154 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,040 about grad cats, but thank you for that. 155 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,720 That was absolutely brilliant. As you said, not what I was 156 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,320 expecting at all and be a little about grad cats then. 157 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:06,840 So you said like you, you helped some friends decorate stuff and 158 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:09,800 I and I guess in a weird way, like proof of concept as a 159 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:13,440 business, it must have been quite and I guess if you've 160 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:15,120 never done the other way, you might not know, but I think from 161 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,560 my perspective, it looks like it was quite a a good kind of 162 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:20,520 accident. So we're not necessarily a good 163 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,040 way of testing out. Is this going to be a viable 164 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,880 business by it just kind of taking off rather than what's so 165 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:27,840 only entrepreneurs, myself include have done is gone. 166 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:30,920 Like I need to find a challenge. Like you go looking for stuff 167 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,120 and then you find like 20 things and one of them kind of works. 168 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,760 19 have been a failure. It's wasted money, but actually 169 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,720 you kind of fell into it. It's like, how did you go from 170 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:40,800 like, OK, social media is taking off? 171 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,240 Like how did it take off? What platforms and how did you 172 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,640 go from that to then right? I'm now doing this for other 173 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,920 people, like just customers, people I don't know. 174 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,960 Well, you know, it's so hard to attribute. 175 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,080 Entrepreneurs are very hard working people. 176 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:56,040 They're the most hard working people. 177 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:58,880 And I don't want to take away from the hard work that I've 178 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,000 done over the years, but I also have to acknowledge the amount 179 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,000 of pure luck that I've had and support that I've had from word 180 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,120 of mouth of people. And then I did get lucky, you 181 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,360 know, whether that's going viral or, you know, other experiences 182 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,920 that I'll get into. But the first, you know, big 183 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:21,560 strike of luck business lottery win was I first started doing my 184 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,840 grad caps and I opened, you know, a separate Instagram for 185 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,120 them because I was making crafts, I was making everything 186 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:29,240 under the sun. And I decided to make a page 187 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,600 solely for grad caps. And it wasn't even a month in 188 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:37,039 when Instagram, like at Instagram, contacted me and 189 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:39,120 said, hey, you know, spring's coming up. 190 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,799 We saw your page and we have never seen anybody solely 191 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:44,320 dedicate themselves to grad caps. 192 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:45,920 Would it be OK if we feature you? 193 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:48,080 And I was like, what do you mean feature me? 194 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,200 And they posted my page on the main Instagram account that has 195 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,360 80 million followers. And overnight after that post 196 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,640 was shared, I had 25,000 followers and a three-year wait 197 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:02,600 list. So that I have to attribute to 198 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,520 pure luck that, you know, my page was found. 199 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,200 But The thing is, is I had already had my established 200 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,160 crafts business where I had the skills, I had the ability to 201 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,680 take that luck and run with it and be able to fulfil orders. 202 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,760 Compared to people that go viral overnight and they have to 203 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,960 figure out shipping and that to figure out production. 204 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,560 And they don't know how to do it yet because they got lucky, but 205 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:27,960 they didn't have the preparation. 206 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,600 And that's kind of where it went hand in hand. 207 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,480 So after that share and that post, things just kind of took 208 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,240 off and I started, you know, taking deposits and figuring out 209 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,440 how to take custom orders for strangers. 210 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:44,320 Instead of it just being a friend or a friend of a friend 211 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,080 or a family member, I had to figure out how to communicate 212 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,240 with people from all over the world and take secure orders and 213 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,120 fulfil those. So it was a very crazy 214 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:58,000 experience. But thankfully through the years 215 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:01,480 of I had making crafts and all this hand paints and stuff, not 216 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:04,560 necessarily grad caps, I had that preparation of being able 217 00:10:04,560 --> 00:10:08,520 to just take it and run. But it was, it's pretty surreal 218 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,520 to just kind of blow up overnight. 219 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,080 But this was already after a few years of having a little crafts 220 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,520 business compared to being a total newbie so. 221 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:20,800 Yeah. And I hear what you're saying 222 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,480 about luck and I appreciate you sharing that because I think 223 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,560 sometimes E mentioned entrepreneurs, we also can be so 224 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:29,360 proud at times going like I built this business from the 225 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,840 ground up and like kind of talk about like all the failures 226 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,440 you've been through and all the stress and the, it cost me two 227 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:35,640 marriages and this kind of stuff. 228 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:37,360 Actually, sometimes we do get lucky. 229 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,280 It's like a billionaire not attributing their family wealth 230 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:45,760 to their self-made title. You know, it's, it's like that 231 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,720 having to acknowledge Donald. Trump is poorer than where he 232 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:51,720 was when he was born, isn't he? That's one of my favourite 233 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,600 statistics in life. Yeah, but it's even that I think 234 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,480 you're absolutely right. It's like, yeah, where you're 235 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,200 born. I often use the analogy though, 236 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,520 that like we're all going to get lucky at times. 237 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,000 Like there's, I mean, I run an agency, there's times I just, I 238 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,320 meet that right person, bang, we've got a nice big client and 239 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,360 it's like, and it all just kind of falls into place. 240 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,880 And then I'm kind of sitting there going, here's me working 241 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:16,320 so hard on podcast content, events, networking, like agency 242 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,080 partnerships, keeping our integrity good. 243 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:20,120 And out of nowhere, we've got a new biggest client. 244 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,440 Like nothing to do with me. But I always say like, if 245 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,760 you're, if you want to roll A6 on the dice, roll the dice more 246 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,000 often. And I think you've got to be in 247 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:29,160 the right place at the right time or you're definitely not 248 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:30,080 going to get those opportunities. 249 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:31,720 And I think you're in the right place at the right time. 250 00:11:31,920 --> 00:11:34,960 Someone at Instagram found you because you were doing 251 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,760 something, yes. Exactly because I was pouring my 252 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:40,000 efforts into content that I was found. 253 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,640 So you got to lay the pebbles to make the path, you know. 254 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,040 Exactly, exactly. I think we could come out of 255 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:46,480 analogies all day. I love the Pebble one. 256 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:47,360 Actually, I love it. I might. 257 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,560 I might steal that. I'm very proud of it. 258 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,200 Yeah, Yeah. So when was that? 259 00:11:52,200 --> 00:11:54,000 When, when did you have that kind of big boom on Instagram? 260 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:54,480 When? Did that. 261 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:59,720 That was, I believe 2018 or so. Yeah. 262 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:03,840 I had already had it like my crafts business for a while and 263 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:08,280 I had recently just kind of branched into the caps side of 264 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,560 it because as soon as I that blew up, I kind of just left 265 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:14,160 everything else behind. And I found a passion in grad 266 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,720 caps. And over the years, it's just 267 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:20,560 it's piled on top of each other. Then you add in, you know, 268 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,360 TikTok when that became a thing. And then I was featured in The 269 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,800 New York Times because a writer happened to find my Instagram 270 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,480 page. Like so many big breaks like we 271 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,480 were talking about. But it took a lot of work to get 272 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,800 there and a lot of learning along the way, especially with 273 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:40,640 social media that changes so rapidly in the trends and the 274 00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:42,520 algorithms. And you got to keep up with all 275 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,000 of that. You know, it's so hard when all 276 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:47,000 I want to do is paint. And now I have to be a, you 277 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,720 know, photographer and a website creator and a con like content 278 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,760 creator. And there's so many hats that 279 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,080 business owners wear. Yeah, yeah. 280 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,960 And I, I sometimes say like if I went back to see 15 year old 281 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,720 Nick and said to the little 15 year old version of me like 282 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:04,720 you're going to be doing HR and finance and these other things 283 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:06,320 and also you're going to enjoy it. 284 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,960 I'd be like, go away. You're crazy. 285 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,200 Absolutely not yes and and I but it's really interesting 286 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:14,680 actually. So 2018 you had yeah, you had 287 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:16,360 this big break with Instagram, which is quite cool. 288 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:19,000 We we're going to talk about TikTok in a huge amount of 289 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,000 detail in a minute, guys, because actually Kim's got one 290 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:23,800 of the biggest business followings I've seen for 291 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,400 certainly such AI. Don't mean it's a rude way, but 292 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,160 it's such a small operation. It's such a big following. 293 00:13:29,400 --> 00:13:33,280 It's very niche indeed. But how did you go so Instagram? 294 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:35,520 How did you go from Instagram of posted to getting that 295 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,000 three-year waiting list? Like what was the technology 296 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,280 behind it? What was that price without 297 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:40,840 people landing on your Shopify store? 298 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,000 Was it an old woo commerce site? Like what was the tech behind it 299 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,320 at the time that you had in? Place to make that work. 300 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:51,080 I didn't have I had to figure out a way I knew there was going 301 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,440 to be an influx. I wasn't sure of what of what 302 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,800 massive, you know, how many people, but I, I knew I had to 303 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,680 be prepared. So I didn't have products at the 304 00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:04,560 time that could be purchased on hand. 305 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,720 But also, you know, I don't know, graduation time wasn't 306 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,080 necessarily right there. So I had to figure out a way 307 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:15,840 where I could take all of these people coming in, take their 308 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,800 information and then contact them when the time came. 309 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,880 So that way I can convert those followers into customers. 310 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,200 So what I did was instead of, you know, linking anything to my 311 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:28,360 Shopify that they could purchase necessarily, I had items. 312 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,920 But my main I take, I guess to to be able to answer this 313 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,880 question, I have to like explain a little bit of how I take 314 00:14:36,880 --> 00:14:39,360 orders. I do custom orders of hand 315 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,720 painted caps and those are reserved two years in advance 316 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,520 and then I have ready to go, ready to ship digital digitally 317 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,680 created cap toppers that I can ship out right away. 318 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,160 So I have an e-commerce type direction of my website and then 319 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:56,320 I have a more custom ordered direction of my website. 320 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,120 So I did have those ready to ship items ready to go. 321 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,600 But you know, in my head, my money makers, my custom work, 322 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,960 that's what that's the unique thing that you know people 323 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,320 wanted. So what I did was I created a 324 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,360 basically an informational form. What's your e-mail? 325 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:16,400 What's do you have an idea for your cap and when are you 326 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,400 graduating? And so from there, I got 327 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,960 thousands of applications and I just sorted them into folders. 328 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:27,920 These are my 2025 grads, my 2026 grads, my 2027 grads. 329 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:33,320 And then I figured out a way to book out, which for me was 330 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,640 booking out two years in advance. 331 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,680 So in for all the people that you know, applied for a 2027 332 00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,240 cap, they're like, hey, I'm a freshman in high school, but can 333 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:43,080 I book you for my college graduation? 334 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,720 And I'd be like, yes, give me your info and I will e-mail you 335 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,320 2 years beforehand with everything you need to know on 336 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,840 how to place a deposit and then your order's secured and we will 337 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,680 talk right before your graduation. 338 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:56,520 And that's how I ended up booking out two years in 339 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,680 advance. And you know, having this booked 340 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,200 wait list because they, there's only so much I can do that's 341 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,440 hand painted. So as soon as I fill out those 342 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,200 spots, I contact the customer, excuse me and I say, you know 343 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:11,880 what, I am fully booked for this now. 344 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,000 But here are my other options. Check out my website. 345 00:16:14,280 --> 00:16:17,440 I've got handmade glitter toppers that you can customise. 346 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:21,680 I've got customizable designs. I have pre made designs that, 347 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:23,920 you know, you could just pick one and do that. 348 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:28,040 And so all the customers that I had to turn away still became 349 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:32,080 customers because 80 of them ended up being like, well, I 350 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,040 can't draw, I can't decorate, I'm just going to order 351 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,680 something and then just stick it on my cap. 352 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:41,400 So even when I lost, I won and I just got really lucky. 353 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:45,680 But I also had the smarts to be able to convert all of those 354 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,320 people coming in into future customers where sometimes if you 355 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:54,000 only have a ready to go product and you don't have enough, you 356 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,240 have to turn them away and then they go to someone else. 357 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,480 So I was able to just kind of, and then I was also really 358 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,440 lucky, like you said, to have a very different, very niche 359 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:06,359 business where they almost didn't really have too many 360 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:10,160 people to go to back then. So, you know, I didn't have as 361 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:12,440 much competition back then as obviously there is now. 362 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,560 There's way more creators who do what I do. 363 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,400 But it was, it was a crazy time. It was a crazy morning to wake 364 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,240 up to. Good, good. 365 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,240 And I love the fact that you had such a customised process for 366 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:27,200 everyone. Did you literally e-mail 367 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,560 everyone individually then? And do you still do that? 368 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:31,360 Or actually, do you, have you eventually created like a 369 00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,880 workflow system to go On this date, send this e-mail, It's the 370 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:37,360 same e-mail that everybody gets and they reply and I put them 371 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:39,880 into a system like, have you automated any of it or are you 372 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,720 still like, no, I'm talking to customers, every single one, one 373 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,840 to one and doing it manually? Like I said, I'm good at 374 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,360 painting and I have learned how to do social media, but I am not 375 00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:52,440 a tech person. So I do everything being 1 by 1. 376 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:55,760 Every single person who fills an application, I personally e-mail 377 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,560 them back and I've of course automated it to I have copy 378 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,160 paste responses. Any question that anyone asks 379 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,400 me, I have a like a prompt ready to go. 380 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,560 I've created little shortcuts on my laptop where you know, I 381 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:10,240 could type in one letter and it'll fill in this paragraph 382 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,680 answering their questions. So I have figured out ways to do 383 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,080 it. But even right before this 384 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,760 interview, I was answering applications, you know, 1 by 1. 385 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,240 And also, I want to be able to see if they have a question that 386 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,320 I can answer. It's very hard for me to ask for 387 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:25,400 help. So I don't hire people really to 388 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,080 do this. I like to do it myself. 389 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,800 And that effort has, you know, what I give out. 390 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,920 It comes back to me. And I've noticed that. 391 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,520 So yeah, I do everything myself. I haven't quite figured out how 392 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,040 to automate it, but maybe one day I will. 393 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:43,160 I do think though that, I mean, I, I quoted quite a few people 394 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:44,360 over the last few weeks actually. 395 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,000 So I won't name any names, but lots of business owners that 396 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,120 I've met from Aceo's got their own Netflix series and thousands 397 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,840 of staff down to like small team of five or six with the CEO's 398 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,840 now taking a bit of a backseat and the business runs itself. 399 00:18:57,280 --> 00:18:59,920 The owners are still messaging customers directly and I think 400 00:18:59,920 --> 00:19:02,640 it's just so powerful. There's nothing worse than 401 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,480 walking into and as a as a marketing agency, we talked to 402 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:07,320 lots and lots of brands. There's nothing worse than 403 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,120 walking into a team and they start saying like, we're not 404 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,160 about that, we're about this. And you kind of sit there going, 405 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:13,640 I think your customers hate that. 406 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:16,560 And actually I think that is stopping you generating more 407 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,760 revenue. Like when they run a particular 408 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,680 sale and you're kind of sitting there going that new sale you're 409 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:24,000 running at the moment is on products that no one wants. 410 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:27,480 Like you're running a sale to get rid of crap like that is all 411 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,720 you're focused on here when actually you should be going, 412 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,040 what are customers need right now? 413 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,600 What's seasonality? What are some of their problems? 414 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,080 And for yourself as well, like you're, you're doing all the 415 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:37,920 right things. I think of like you're looking 416 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:39,520 at the time that they're actually going to graduate. 417 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,360 When do I need to get in touch early enough? 418 00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,200 And as you say, even when they're like, oh, I don't really 419 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,640 know what I want on it, whatever you say, here is something. 420 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:49,040 Here is a menu to choose from. Yeah, and I will have help 421 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,280 during, sorry to cut you off. I will have help during like the 422 00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:57,200 busy season, which is March through June, where I'll have my 423 00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:59,960 mom or my boyfriend or a friend handle my emails. 424 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,080 But I'll make and then they can see the time that they graduate 425 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,400 and sort them into those folders I've already created. 426 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:09,200 But I have them keep an eye out for any specialised questions 427 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,560 that I need to answer and I'll have them flag those emails so I 428 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,600 can always go back and you know. Give that personal touch and 429 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,840 make sure whoever's reaching out actually gets the answer that 430 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,000 they need, which I feel like, you know, once you're as big as 431 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,680 Amazon and you're talking to the customer service agent where 432 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,680 you're not really like getting the help you need sometimes. 433 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,360 Yeah, no one cares anymore at that level. 434 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,040 Exactly. Frustrating. 435 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,080 Yeah, I want them to know that they're speaking with Kim from 436 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,760 Kim's Custom Caps, you know? Yeah, yeah, I even saw a 437 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,800 business recently. I think it was something my wife 438 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,000 and I ordered for the house. And I got a video back from the 439 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:43,240 founder. And I thought, here we go. 440 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,440 This is a, you know, the pessimist is a generic video, 441 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,640 but it was literally the founder going like, hey, Nick, I just 442 00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,520 thought I'd send you a video rather than trying to explain 443 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,560 this on e-mail, actually looking at the colour of your room and 444 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,640 the item you probably want. And I think you should go down 445 00:20:56,640 --> 00:20:58,320 this route. And here are some examples on 446 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,560 the e-mail of that product and how it would work with it. 447 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,960 And I was literally saying to my wife, like, we're buying from 448 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,240 them, right? And she was like, but they're 449 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:05,840 the most expensive. Like, yeah, yeah, but we're 450 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,880 buying from them, right? Yeah, you took the time to 451 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,320 really cater to me. Exactly. 452 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:12,760 Yeah. And I think it's that personal 453 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,920 touch is so important. It doesn't doesn't always have 454 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:16,960 to be the founder. And I've had it. 455 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:18,880 I've had it before where like you have an issue with 456 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,320 something, you contact customer service. 457 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,680 And I think I said this last week as well, there's nothing 458 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,080 worse than the same, sorry, different names popping up on 459 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,440 every customer service e-mail, even from a big corporate 460 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,320 company. It's like if you, if Sam's 461 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,160 talking to me, let her send every single message to me. 462 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,320 Like even, and this is crazy, even if it's someone different 463 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,480 every time, just make sure Sam is always the person that comes 464 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,800 up every time. That's what I want to. 465 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,320 That's the person I want to engage with, or at least feel 466 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,000 like I'm talking to the same person every. 467 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:50,720 You don't want to feel like you're talking to a robot 468 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:52,480 because then you just lose interest. 469 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,840 Everybody, everybody's losing. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 470 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,240 And unless the robots more useful than humans, I have had 471 00:21:58,240 --> 00:21:59,760 that on AI quite a few times recently. 472 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:01,800 It's like, where's my order? Here's my order. 473 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,200 And they're like, oh, good morning, Nick. 474 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:04,080 And I'm not even telling my name. 475 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:05,880 It's like, good morning, Nick. And it's an instant reply. 476 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,360 And I'm like, human couldn't do that quickly. 477 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,800 And actually I quite appreciate the speed of just your. 478 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,640 I'm going to be delivered tomorrow and you're like, great. 479 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,560 Is there any I can help you with? 480 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,440 Nope, you always feel like saying thank you to the AI. 481 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:18,280 And, you know, there's there are certain features available now 482 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:20,480 through chat where you have like common questions and they can 483 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,360 click which one and you can have your answer already kind of 484 00:22:23,360 --> 00:22:24,800 there. And that helps a lot. 485 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,400 But yeah, I wish I was a computer. 486 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,120 I wish I could just, you know, clone myself and have a customer 487 00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:32,920 service version of me and a content creator version of me 488 00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:34,120 and then the painter version of me. 489 00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:35,880 But you know, you got to do it all. 490 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:38,720 Yeah, yeah, that. And that is the art I think of 491 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,040 growing A-Team. And I know plenty of people that 492 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,640 are trying to run similar business to mine. 493 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,360 And they're not people, people they're not willing to learn how 494 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:47,800 to manage people and how to multiply themselves. 495 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,600 And there's always that role of accepting 90% perfection from 496 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,000 any one of your team and accepting that, whereas there's 497 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,720 still that inkling in me to be like, Nope, it's not perfect. 498 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,520 I'm not satisfied. You have to fight wanting to do 499 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,080 it all yourself. That's that's what. 500 00:23:01,120 --> 00:23:04,520 I struggle with yeah, yeah. And I think that, yeah, once you 501 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,680 start to get the rewards of that or you trust your first person 502 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,080 that you've hired, it does start to get easier. 503 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,560 And I can vouch for that. But hiring in itself, I mean, we 504 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,920 could do a whole episode on it. It's yeah, I've made all the 505 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:17,760 mistakes that there are to make, I think, over the years and all 506 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:21,560 the successes as well. But let's talk about TikTok, 507 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,840 biggest hot topic, I would say in the social world and will 508 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,560 continue to be. So I won't ask you if you're 509 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,880 terrified of losing it if Donald Trump gets rid of it, because I 510 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,440 know the US keep keep threatening things like that. 511 00:23:34,120 --> 00:23:36,960 And but talked about TikTok, like how long have you been on 512 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,160 it? What do you think's working on 513 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,080 it? And how have you got? 514 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,160 I mean, you got over 300,000 followers, which for a business, 515 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,080 as I say, like one person doing almost everything, as we're 516 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,240 saying in a business is incredible. 517 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,120 Like I think you've done an incredible job on that. 518 00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,840 And I'm sure it's nothing but hard work, but tell us the 519 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,560 process, how you got to where you are today. 520 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,280 OK, perfect. Sorry my headphone is like kind 521 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,280 of disconnecting and getting a little staticky. 522 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,480 So let me know if you have any issues. 523 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:38,840 But TikTok, it's so funny that you mentioned like if I'm afraid 524 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,840 of losing it because there was a minute there where I really 525 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:42,680 thought it was going to get banned. 526 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,080 So I went, what I did was, you know, post a video and be like, 527 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,200 hey, you know, in case this this, you know, goes down with 528 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,160 the ship, if you're graduating this year, this year, this year 529 00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:55,520 or anytime in the future, fill out an application and I will 530 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,520 reach out to you when it's time. It it went viral and I got I had 531 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,320 applications up until 2039 moms, you know, signing up for their 532 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:08,320 current kindergarteners. And so I yeah, I swear it is. 533 00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,040 And I call that job security so. Yeah, that is incredible. 534 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Yes, so the way I got started with TikTok, it wasn't even 535 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,080 intentional. I I didn't even intend to use 536 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:21,120 this. I didn't intend to learn a whole 537 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:24,120 new platform, let alone intend to use it for work. 538 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,760 You know, the pandemic happened. I downloaded it just for fun. 539 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,280 I didn't even post work related videos at first. 540 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,840 I think I posted like a little craft on how to make like a 541 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,280 swinging plant decoration and I got quite a quite a bit of views 542 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,240 like about 200,000, which I was like, wow, like my Instagram 543 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,560 could never get 200,000 likes. You know, they're very different 544 00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,960 platforms. You know, Instagram is very 545 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,840 follower directed now a little less, but usually they only see 546 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,800 your content if they follow you TikTok, your content goes out to 547 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:57,560 everyone whether they follow you or not. 548 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,640 And that's the powerful part of it. 549 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:05,200 So I started posting painting videos and they were getting 550 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,760 views. And then, you know, one will get 551 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,320 more than the other and and then, you know, sometimes you go 552 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,240 viral for the wrong reasons. So what happened is I started 553 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,240 posting my work videos. I could see an influx of sales 554 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,840 because these videos were going out to people who didn't already 555 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,080 follow me, who didn't know that decorating grad caps was a 556 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,120 thing, you know, people were sharing and I could see an 557 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:30,040 influx in it. But I guess where I really saw 558 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:36,160 the increase in, you know, the change and getting bigger is I 559 00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:39,840 posted a video where I misspoke about something I was 560 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,320 interviewed by. I don't want to get it wrong 561 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,000 again. I was interviewed by by a news 562 00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:49,280 station, right? Meant for Latinos, Hispanics, 563 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,640 and I'm bilingual. So I was on it and I was 564 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,440 talking, I was doing a voice over while I was painting, 565 00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:59,400 speaking about how I was invited to be on this and I called it a 566 00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,880 Mexican news show, which actually it is Mexican owned. 567 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:08,080 So I was not wrong, but I was attacked in the comments about 568 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:12,360 why does it have to be Mexican? Why is everybody I, I am 569 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:17,680 Mexican, I am first generation Latina Hispanic and I just 570 00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:22,040 wasn't aware of the terminology. It wasn't meant to be offensive 571 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,960 nor do I actually think it was offensive. 572 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,200 I just don't think it was as inclusive as it should have 573 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,240 been. So anyway, people fighting in 574 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,240 the comments. All of this happened while I was 575 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,640 asleep, so I woke up to about 5000. 576 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,640 So it was in the middle of the day then that would be. 577 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,560 Yes, it was about, you know, 1:00 PM because my strategy we 578 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,360 can get into this later is to post and ghost post it and go to 579 00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:47,040 sleep, close the app, and then whatever happens happens and I 580 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:49,360 just wake up to it. So what I woke up to that day 581 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:54,200 was 5000 people in the comments either correcting me, defending 582 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,600 me, or fighting with each other over the terminology that I 583 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,360 chose in my voice over. And you know, that day was kind 584 00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:04,920 of how do I fix this? How do I fix this? 585 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,320 Because at the end of the day, one, it wasn't my intention. 586 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,040 And two, this is now my business. 587 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,840 You know, on my personal page or personal pages, you can have 588 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:14,960 your own opinions and piss off whatever you want. 589 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:18,080 But on a business page, I would like to have a very professional 590 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,800 front where, you know, we keep the peace especially. 591 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,840 And it affects customers. They want to know where you 592 00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:24,560 stand on things. Yeah, exactly. 593 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:30,920 So I really didn't know about, you know, it being not, you 594 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,960 know, specifically Mexican owned, but I grew up in a 595 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,400 Mexican household where we watched it. 596 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:39,160 And that was my truth. And so I started replying to all 597 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,680 the really mean people in my comments saying, you know, you 598 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,920 don't really have to talk down upon me. 599 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,680 Like, thank you for educating me on the way it should be. 600 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,240 And then I had them replying, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry. 601 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:54,280 I didn't mean to offend you. I was just like, you know, 602 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,080 really today. And I saw that, you know, you 603 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,560 were just calling us this. And I was like, no, thank you. 604 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,520 Like, and I ended up keeping the peace with everybody. 605 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,480 But the interesting part was all of this engagement on that post, 606 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,920 I got so many orders overnight, I paid my rent in a day. 607 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,600 You know, just that interaction. And there's people that use that 608 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,080 strategy of, you know, starting that little spark of drama to 609 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,720 get engagement. That's not my favourite way to 610 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,120 get views, but I know for other people it works because it gets 611 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,360 people talking. So that was my first kind of 612 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,680 experience with going viral and it was a scary 1 and I didn't 613 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,720 want to go viral for that kind of reason ever again, but. 614 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,440 Anxiety was quite high after that but. 615 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,920 I can't remember how many followers I got, but got a lot 616 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,480 of orders. I got a lot of followers. 617 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,760 I got a lot of people following up on my kind of videos where 618 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360 then I would drop info on how to order what I actually do, you 619 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,960 know, And I turned those viewers into customers. 620 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,080 And then just slowly my video content, I could see what worked 621 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,560 and what didn't. I started kind of catering, 622 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:05,560 bring it to what it is now. So yeah, TikTok is insane when 623 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:08,000 it comes to just going viral. It's a lot of luck. 624 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,880 But again, you have to put in the work, make that content. 625 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,000 Nothing's going to go viral if you don't post. 626 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:18,280 So you got to do the work. And I'm really lucky that my 627 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,000 content is almost easy to make because I'm just recording what 628 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,280 I'm doing. I don't have to go out of my way 629 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,000 to make like, you know, super unique, OK, what trend is 630 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,800 happening? I just record the cap that I'm 631 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,120 painting that night. And I don't have to show my 632 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:34,520 face. I don't really have to talk. 633 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,120 My work kind of just shows for itself. 634 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:39,520 And I feel like I've gotten really lucky and getting a 635 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,440 following that appreciates what I do. 636 00:30:42,280 --> 00:30:45,560 Yeah, yeah, and I think a lot of and this can be very personal 637 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,120 subjective comments. So please don't change your life 638 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,840 on this. Anyone listening and I, I find a 639 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:54,320 lot of content on certainly when you doom scrolling on TikTok and 640 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,360 Instagram, a lot of it's kind of cool. 641 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,400 It's kind of fun. But the thing that always cuts 642 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,440 through is someone who's really skilled at something. 643 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,640 The amount of videos I've seen of like just random, like, I 644 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,000 don't know, an electrician who's designed the most incredible 645 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,480 wiring diagram in a cupboard that no one's ever going to look 646 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,000 at again. And you're like, that's actually 647 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,240 really cool. Or like, I mean, art is a really 648 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,960 obvious one of like I love the videos where you've got the 649 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,120 giant canvas and someone's got a painting or something on a rope 650 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,000 and it. Just swings. 651 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,160 Yeah, Bang. And there's paint everywhere and 652 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,440 it's fascinating. I tried to do it once and it was 653 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,200 a disaster. The whole canvas just went 654 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:28,720 completely green. And I was like, I've just 655 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,960 created a green canvas. I've not done a splash and. 656 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:34,160 So splashes. Outside of the canvas, yeah. 657 00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:37,080 And it's someone somewhere. I'll say it's about the decline 658 00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,000 of the textile industry in the 1800s and someone to pay money 659 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,840 for it. But I do think that as soon as 660 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,520 someone's skilled, there's always that. 661 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:47,400 There's always that kind of, this is really cool, actually. 662 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,280 It's something I could never do. I've always, I've either always 663 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,160 wondered or never wondered, and probably should have. 664 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:54,000 How that that thing is created? It's. 665 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:58,440 So funny you say that. Today I saw a video of a of a 666 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:03,400 man who does tie dyeing and he tie dyed a beautiful mural on a 667 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:05,360 shirt. And then I was reading through 668 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,160 the comments because I had already followed him, but I kind 669 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,240 of forgot. And I was like, how did you do 670 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,320 that with rubber bands and a shirt and paint? 671 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:14,760 And I was reading the comments and people were saying, you 672 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,040 know, I've never thought tie dyeing was cool until I saw 673 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,120 this. You have my follow. 674 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:21,560 You are amazing. I would buy this in a heartbeat. 675 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,760 And I was like, that is you are so skilled in what you do that 676 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,360 you now have people paying thousands of dollars for a tie 677 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,240 dyed shirt. That is, I mean, yeah, yeah. 678 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:33,880 Which is very 70s, isn't it? Yeah, really old. 679 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,360 I mean, as kids it was quite fun. 680 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,400 Like instead of throwing an old T-shirt out, mum would be like, 681 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,240 yeah, that's tie dye. So I remember playing it with 682 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,480 that kind of thing as a kid. But I do feel that. 683 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:44,240 I mean, you kind of bring this back to all of you guys 684 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,080 listening at home. And I do feel like so many 685 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,840 businesses completely failed to show like the kind of the what I 686 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,000 find fascinating, the how it's made, how it's made, where it's 687 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,520 made, who it's made by. And actually that's what 688 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,400 customers really want to see. And I do feel like it does just 689 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,600 kind of get the knife and cut straight through the business 690 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,760 into authenticity of like, are you like, where do these 691 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:08,120 products even come from? And we have a client who I know 692 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,480 you guys listen and I think I mentioned them last week as 693 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:11,760 well. They do print on demand. 694 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,960 And we're talking to them at the moment about saying you are 695 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,200 based on a really famous island just off the coast of the UK, 696 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,200 British island, and you make everything on the island there 697 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,040 in your factory. This needs to be front and 698 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,320 centre focus because your two or three biggest competitors and 699 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,040 this big, big audit we did for them on there that was actually 700 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:30,480 off the back of Google advertising. 701 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:32,720 What are your capacitors saying versus what we're saying and 702 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:33,840 what could we say that we're not? 703 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,560 And one of the biggest things was like everyone's bringing 704 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,600 stuff in from Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, China and 705 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,840 shipping it into the UK. Actually, you just ship in raw 706 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:44,960 material. In fact, some of the raw 707 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,560 material comes from the UK itself. 708 00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:48,840 And that's a. Really cool story. 709 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,600 Exactly, this is Gary and Gary's made your T-shirt for you like, 710 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,400 and this is Gary making AT shirt or the same T-shirt you've 711 00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,080 ordered for another customer. That's an incredible piece of 712 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:00,560 content. And so discussions. 713 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,440 I've actually got a call in 23 minutes with them to find out 714 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:05,160 like, what can we and can't we say? 715 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,120 And my team have already started writing the additional ad copy 716 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:08,840 for it. But it's it's that kind of thing 717 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,159 of going what, as you say, what sets us apart? 718 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,440 What's different? And then the most important part 719 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:16,120 of the what's different and this where brands get that far, but I 720 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,800 think still get it wrong is what's different that customers 721 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:22,199 care about and actually would make a purchase decision based 722 00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:23,320 on because. We have you said sorry. 723 00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:23,920 Go ahead. Yeah, yeah. 724 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,480 No, I was gonna say, we have quite a few clients that plant 725 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,000 trees every time you place an order. 726 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,760 But now there's all this stuff of like, OK, it's gonna take 30 727 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,520 years for that tree even starts actually soaking up any carbon. 728 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,000 And if you look at the size of the tree, that's how much carbon 729 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,000 we've absorbed. It's like less than a car in two 730 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:40,800 years. Like, it's not a lot. 731 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,880 And actually, we need to stop making or using carbon in the 732 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:45,960 first place. And so it's like customers are 733 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,360 seeing through it now. And actually, if I'm buying, I 734 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,280 don't know if I'm buying this microphone, as much as I want to 735 00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,040 help save the planet, I don't really care if you're planting 736 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,320 trees or not. That's not the reason I bought 737 00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:56,120 this microphone. But if you told me it's all made 738 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,200 from recycled materials that have been hoovered up out the 739 00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:00,280 ocean, actually that's a bit more exciting. 740 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,200 It's a bit more relevant to the product now and that's quite 741 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:03,280 exciting. Right. 742 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,480 You mentioned the keyword earlier, authenticity like that 743 00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:12,520 is that is the biggest thing I go for is I love doing voice 744 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,840 overs over my caps where I'm talking about why the graduate 745 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:17,960 chose what they chose. I work with a lot of first 746 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:21,960 generation graduates as well as people who dedicate their caps 747 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,600 to, you know, their family members who have passed away or 748 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,960 their parents. And I'm constantly telling the 749 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,480 story behind the cap. I follow an Instagram called 750 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,120 Humans of New York where they post pictures of people and then 751 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,520 they share their story. Sorry, I've got my Shopify 752 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:40,160 account for going on. I just got an order, but so 753 00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,520 that's kind of my inspiration behind my page is I like to 754 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,160 share the stories behind the cap, either the graduate story 755 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,440 or my process behind painting it. 756 00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,720 And I think that that's kind of what draws people in compared to 757 00:35:51,720 --> 00:35:54,480 having just a song playing over me painting. 758 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,640 I try to keep it very authentic and let people know who I am on 759 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,960 top of what I'm doing. And that's, that's what sets you 760 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,560 apart from people absolutely. Like you could be selling a 761 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,160 blender, but what makes you and your company, you know, more 762 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,960 unique than the other blender sellers? 763 00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,640 Yeah. And if anyone listening, we were 764 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:15,440 talking, Kim and I were talking about blenders before we hit 765 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,600 record. So it was called Will it Blend? 766 00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:19,000 They're not making videos anymore. 767 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,520 I checked the other day. They stopped a year or two ago. 768 00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:22,640 But they basically we were chatting before we started. 769 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:26,120 They went viral and it wasn't so much like we've got a blender 770 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,360 and there are loads of blenders on the market and here's how we 771 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,960 make it. Or actually we reuse plastic or 772 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,320 something. What they did is go this blender 773 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,880 will blend anything. And they put iPhones and there's 774 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,520 a video of the guy with like goggles on and an entire broom. 775 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,080 And he was like pushing the broom into the blender and they 776 00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,080 were just bits of like wood flying out of this thing. 777 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,200 And it was like, and he used to make jokes as well going like, 778 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,560 so that will make a really good tomato sauce for you. 779 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:53,840 I've seen the same strategy with Tupperware where I mean, selling 780 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:56,440 Tupperware is boring, but then you put it under a car tyre and 781 00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,960 it doesn't pop. That is, that is some good 782 00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,400 Tupperware. You know my wife just. 783 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,760 Bought some glass Tupperware, which is a terrible idea given 784 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,240 that I I carry these Tupperwares to work with me my lunch a 785 00:37:07,240 --> 00:37:09,320 couple of days a week and like yeah, it's just I was like 786 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,960 that's a recipe for me to spend an hour cleaning up glass 787 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,880 somewhere like just can we get plastic ones like, you know kids 788 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,320 safe ones for me. But I do think I mean certainly 789 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,640 there there's all the kind of how indestructible is this 790 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,200 product? Like I think phone case is an 791 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,280 obvious one. There's a company in the UK 792 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:27,280 called Mouse Mous. We used to work with them a few 793 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,960 years ago but but they have a really famous video, it's gone 794 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,280 viral of them dropping off a really tall building in London 795 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:35,080 onto the CEO's car. The only thing I think they got 796 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:37,920 wrong is they look like a tiny company because it was a tiny 797 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,640 little one series BMW and loads of people were commenting on the 798 00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:43,480 videos when they put this thing outgoing. 799 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,520 Like how small's your company? Like if the CEO's only got a 800 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,760 little one series. So then I had to release another 801 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,400 video explaining that the CEO is actually a multi millionaire, 802 00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:54,480 but he chooses to drive a small car because he doesn't care 803 00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,160 about cars. And it also means he doesn't 804 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,800 have to pay an emissions charge, drive into London every day and 805 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,720 stuff like this. Like it's like, okay, but yeah, 806 00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,200 just you could have dropped it on like a Bentley or something 807 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,600 expensive, you know, and then at least it would have been like a 808 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,200 the car was damaged, but the phone survived that sort of 809 00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,840 thing. But I guess last question from 810 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:15,440 me, I think, and this is, this is a big one we get from clients 811 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:18,240 and I'm sure you're thinking about this yourself as well. 812 00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:21,920 And a question we've had quite a lot and we've got a community as 813 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,000 well. And guys, I'm going to invite 814 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,000 him into the community after I haven't even told about it yet, 815 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,600 but we've got our shop community. 816 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:28,040 So come join if you can. There's been a couple of 817 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:30,040 discussions about this. And the question really, Kim, is 818 00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,520 how do you track social beyond just like that ping you just got 819 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:35,920 from Shopify saying you've had an order? 820 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:38,880 Like what metrics are you looking for to go right? 821 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,280 That post works. That one didn't because as you 822 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,000 say, going viral. It wasn't like I went viral and 823 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,960 I got tonnes of orders. It was I went viral. 824 00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,760 Then I had to do some work before a lot of those people 825 00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,040 became customers and actually deal with some of the PR for 826 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:52,720 that. Like, what should brands really 827 00:38:52,720 --> 00:38:55,200 be looking for when they're when they're trying to grow a channel 828 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:57,840 and get a bigger audience? So when I, when I first started 829 00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,400 on socials, I was so focused on numbers and you know how many 830 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,480 likes I had and how many followers and I was desperate to 831 00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:05,560 get those numbers up because I thought that that's what 832 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:07,680 mattered. I was joining giveaways and 833 00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,720 doing loop giveaways and sending products to influencers and all 834 00:39:10,720 --> 00:39:13,280 this stuff. And those customers didn't 835 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,400 always, I mean, those followers didn't always turn into 836 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,040 customers because it was so unrelated to what I do. 837 00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,760 And I was so focused on numbers, but I was focusing on the wrong 838 00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:23,560 ones. Now I focus on engagement. 839 00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,080 And are people actually, you know, commenting under your 840 00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,160 post? Are you creating captions that 841 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:33,080 invite conversation? Are people sending your post? 842 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,600 I love that update on Instagram where you now have the little 843 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,720 arrow because, you know, I just made this kind of themed cap. 844 00:39:39,720 --> 00:39:42,240 I made a dental themed cap. Send this to someone you know, 845 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:46,080 is studying dentistry. And then you have that, you 846 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,840 know, almost digital word of mouth going on. 847 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,440 So my favourite thing to track is sending of the posts are 848 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:55,200 people saving your posts? Because especially for me that 849 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:59,160 I'm more of a seasonal product or you know, if I post in 850 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:03,440 November, are people saving this post for when March, April, May 851 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:06,480 graduation season comes along? I look at those kind of things. 852 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:10,800 But when it comes to Shopify in itself and I go to my analytics, 853 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,400 I'm looking at which socials are bringing in the most. 854 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,520 I can see that Instagram is one of my biggest. 855 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:20,360 So I pour a lot of my, you know, efforts into that. 856 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:23,160 I see my link tree is bringing in a lot, which I have linked on 857 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,400 my TikTok. OK, so I know people are looking 858 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,240 there another. Thing that I'm looking at on my 859 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:31,440 analytics on Shopify are my search terms OK? 860 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,120 What are people searching that they're not finding? 861 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,200 How, you know, how can I make my listing descriptions and my 862 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:42,520 titles more concise and more, you know, helpful to the 863 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,720 customer in finding what they're looking for? 864 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,520 So those are usually the biggest things I look for. 865 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:52,160 Also, abandoned carts, you know, what percentage of people, what 866 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:55,400 are they adding to their cart? You know what's I'm thinking in 867 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:56,920 their brain, what's turning them away? 868 00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:59,600 Is it maybe the price? OK, let's rent a coupon code or 869 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:03,440 a sale and e-mail them. I take a lot of advantage of the 870 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,640 Shopify apps. There are so many good ones out 871 00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,280 there that automate a lot. I, I'm not going to look through 872 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,640 every single customer's e-mail who has an abandoned cart. 873 00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,440 Thankfully, I learned how to automate that and have an app 874 00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,280 that can automatically do that for me. 875 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,320 So if you're not using the Shopify apps, like you are 876 00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:24,680 missing out on a lot of potential helpful things and 877 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:26,680 it's just getting in there. I didn't know how to do any of 878 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,120 that. I just got in there and started 879 00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:31,320 basically online shopping and seeing what this could do for me 880 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:35,000 and how it works for me. So yeah, it's just engagement, 881 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:37,960 sending, saving, you know, search terms. 882 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:39,760 You got to see what works for you. 883 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:43,640 I'm a very seasonal business, so I've obviously catered my, you 884 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:48,040 know, search and my research to those kind of things which you 885 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,120 would have to do for your own business and see what fits for 886 00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:52,280 you. But there's so many tools, you 887 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,800 just got to use them. Amazing. 888 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,360 And I, I think the thing with Shopify apps, as an SEO guy, the 889 00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:58,480 only thing I say is just be careful with page speed people, 890 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:02,480 the amount of stores we come into and we find like 30 to 50% 891 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,640 of the apps that are actually running in your code and slowing 892 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,520 down page load, you're not even using. 893 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:08,640 I just left, left on left active. 894 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,640 So yeah, do be careful. But you're absolutely right, 895 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,560 Kim. And I think, I think the, the 896 00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:15,320 thing, a lot of, yeah, thing a lot of brands I think make the 897 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,080 mistake with, with Shopify apps is they, they constantly looking 898 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:20,400 at shiny objects. I think we've got to do is take 899 00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:23,000 a step back and go like, first of all, who are my customers? 900 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:25,160 What are they trying to do? What do I want to change? 901 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,040 And now let's get some tech to make that happen. 902 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,720 Sometimes you find a bit of tech by accident, turn it on and go, 903 00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:34,120 wow, that really worked. But all you've done is you've 904 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,680 just missed that bit before, which is like, what? 905 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,520 What do customers actually want? But just jumping back, I love 906 00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,600 what you've said about just avoiding irrelevant followers 907 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,160 and actually inviting conversation. 908 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,480 And I think that if I'm going to put any kind of headline on 909 00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:50,040 today, I think is that to engage with customers through social, 910 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,840 it's inviting conversation, whether it was you saying the 911 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,280 wrong thing on a new studio. Positive be positive 912 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,240 conversation but. Exactly, but you turned even 913 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:01,200 those negative conversations into positive. 914 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,760 I mean this how detrimental is it and we this is an obvious one 915 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:06,560 for all of us. I don't need any data says if 916 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,160 you're thinking of buying a product and you see one negative 917 00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,440 thing, the brand's not replied to, like we had a client years 918 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,200 ago, you type in their name and the second listing under their 919 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,640 website on Google was, is this a scam? 920 00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:22,400 And it was on a forum and you click on it and the conclusion 921 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,000 from about 100 customers, No, no, no, no, no, no. 922 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:28,160 But because I said all replied, all the activity Google had gone 923 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:29,680 well, this is relevant to the brands. 924 00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:30,800 They put it up their own brand new. 925 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:34,040 So part of our SEO remit was like, get rid of that. 926 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,400 And then we managed to contact, I think it was money saving 927 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,880 expert forum and managed to contact and get to change the 928 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:40,480 title. Just saying, like this is MIT. 929 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,520 We use the term. It's misrepresentation, which is 930 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,200 a, which is a law in the UK. You can't misrepresent something 931 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:47,920 in advertising. And we said your website is 932 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:49,520 misrepresenting whether we're a scam or not. 933 00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,000 And we're absolutely not. And here's 100 customers on your 934 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:53,600 own web page saying that we're not. 935 00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,040 And so you could put in brackets like solved at the start, which 936 00:43:57,040 --> 00:43:58,760 they did. And actually Google moved it 937 00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:00,720 down now going it's less relevant. 938 00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,400 But yeah, I think just those little comments, I think that 939 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,680 positive conversation and as you're applying to all the 940 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:08,160 negativity, I think must be so important. 941 00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,840 And just questions in general, one of my favourite ones when I 942 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:12,160 can't think of something engages. 943 00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,000 How much do you think this crab cap cost? 944 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,480 And you got people being like, oh, I'd only pay $40.00 for 945 00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,960 that. People being like, no, she's so 946 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:19,520 talented. It was 400. 947 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:21,840 And it's so interesting to see that. 948 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,160 So you just got to get creative in how to create that 949 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,760 conversation. Yeah, it was like that dress 950 00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:28,840 years together went viral. Like what colour is the dress 951 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,120 so. Good debate is your friend. 952 00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:33,680 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Well, look, Kim, it's been so 953 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,080 great to have you on. I really appreciate your time. 954 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:39,040 I've got a whole notepad of notes, things I've learned, 955 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,400 stuff that stuff I'm going to flag as well on some of our 956 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,240 socials for people to come and listen to this. 957 00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:45,760 I hope you guys have enjoyed today as well. 958 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:49,000 But Kim, final question and how can people reach out to you? 959 00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:50,920 Where can they follow you? Where can they find your 960 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,680 website? Definitely, I'm always posting 961 00:44:53,680 --> 00:44:55,280 on TikTok. I love posting the behind 962 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,760 scenes. That's just kind of the process. 963 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,320 If you, I get a lot more personal on my Instagram to 964 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:02,040 watch my stories. I'm constantly hopping on and 965 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,600 talking to people, answering questions, posting the video, 966 00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,080 you know, repurposing it on another app and then posting the 967 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,080 final photo. So you kind of get the behind 968 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,320 the scenes on one side and you get the behind the scenes, me 969 00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,920 and the final, you know, photo on Instagram. 970 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,240 But I'm very active on both. You know, I've got a YouTube 971 00:45:19,240 --> 00:45:21,600 page and Facebook, but I just kind of trickle on there. 972 00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:25,280 Those are my two big ones and I'm always available through DM. 973 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,960 I've got my link everywhere and I'm just I'm just happy to be 974 00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:31,120 here and you can find me if you look for me. 975 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:33,720 Yeah, most importantly, what is the handle? 976 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:35,800 What do they need to type in to TikTok and Instagram to find you 977 00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:37,160 though? What's what's the handle? 978 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:41,440 You're going to look up Kim's custom caps and like I said, 979 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:43,880 there's not a lot of graduation cap artists out there, so I 980 00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:46,680 might pop up if you search up graduation cap artists. 981 00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,160 You know, like I said, if you look for me, you can find me, 982 00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,840 but it'll be direct if you look up Kim's custom caps. 983 00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:54,200 Amazing, amazing. Well, thank you so much, Kim. 984 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:55,680 I really appreciate time. It's been great to chat. 985 00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:57,560 Thank you, it's been super exciting for me too. 986 00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,760 I'm going to keep working all night. 987 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:02,240 Yes, you've just started and so have I. 988 00:46:02,240 --> 00:46:04,280 It's 9:00 AM here in the UK, so it's still. 989 00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:06,920 We both have a day ahead of us. We do indeed. 990 00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:08,200 We do indeed. But anyway, great to have you 991 00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:09,520 with us and for everyone listening at home. 992 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:10,640 Thanks so much for tuning in guys. 993 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,640 Been absolutely pleasure to have you listening to the show. 994 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,800 Please hit the subscribe button and come join the growth hub as 995 00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:16,760 well. And we are about to do a massive 996 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:18,160 revamp as well, as I said earlier. 997 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:21,000 So yeah, come, come join the journey with us and come engage 998 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,200 with people like him and everybody else in there as well. 999 00:46:23,200 --> 00:46:25,680 So yeah, speak to you guys again next Friday. 1000 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:26,360 Make sure you tune in.