1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,280 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,960 And I was inspired by my dad and I thought, you know what, I'm 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:06,400 going to name it after his middle name. 4 00:00:06,400 --> 00:00:07,600 I'm going to call it Burton Goods. 5 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,120 And I'm going to try this again, but this time I'm going to do it 6 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:13,480 on my kind of my timeline with all of the experience of 15 7 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,080 years. Who on earth starts a new 8 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:18,280 business say hey, we did it so badly last time It's like that 9 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:20,960 isn't the most authentic way to start a conversation. 10 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:23,000 The. Point of the e-mail program is 11 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,120 not just to drive opens and clicks right, it's to actually 12 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,280 support the business. Brian and the team at Saguno had 13 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,880 really partnered with me. They had really come around me. 14 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:34,160 They were teaching me things I had never been told. 15 00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,640 So are you telling me you enjoy doing blog post and e-mail more 16 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,080 than sitting on developer calls at Magenta about security 17 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:40,680 updates? Is that? 18 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,240 Yes, yes, yes, believe it or not. 19 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,440 One of the things that is really important to us is that when 20 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:50,320 we're sending emails to customers that our customers are 21 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:51,880 successful reaching their customers. 22 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:54,280 So good, O'Brien mentioned just before we hit record. 23 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,720 You've got a book. Is your book about that journey? 24 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,080 Then what's the name of the book and or is it completely 25 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:01,000 different? That was a joke, Nick. 26 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,520 I'm sorry. I should have. 27 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:05,160 I should have caught on with the new dad. 28 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,680 I'm sorry. I didn't realize you guys had 29 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:09,160 sarcasm the other side of the Atlantic. 30 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:10,800 Oh yeah, I. Should have seen that coming. 31 00:01:17,320 --> 00:01:19,360 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Winning with 32 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,280 Shopify podcast. If you've not seen him before, 33 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:22,920 my name's Nick. And if you're wondering what 34 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:25,560 T-shirt I'm wearing, which I nearly forgot to shout out, but 35 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:28,120 I haven't even told him, but one of our previous guests, James, 36 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:30,400 who I think would have been two weeks before this episode from 37 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:33,240 SAA Clothing, I've ordered one of his T-shirts. 38 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,480 And we've also put on our Instagram a little, I think it's 39 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:38,040 called stop motion. I'm not really into video 40 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,200 editing, but there's lots of pictures all stuck together with 41 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:42,520 us unpackaging the product. It's absolutely amazing. 42 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:44,520 It's incredible 'cause it's all about autism. 43 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:47,600 And yeah, if you want to check out their clothing, it's a a 44 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,360 clothing. I think they're only shipping in 45 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,080 the UK at the moment, but have a look and there's an amazing 46 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,640 cause. And also, if you have anyone in 47 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:55,960 the family, people who work with the R autistic, James is the 48 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:59,080 most incredible person to to engage with, hence why I ordered 49 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:00,920 this T-shirt as soon as he was on the show. 50 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,960 I also have some other cool merch coming ahead of guests, so 51 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,560 we might do like a spot if Nick's wearing some merch in the 52 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,320 future as well for our guests. Anyway, enough about me. 53 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:11,080 If it's the first time tuning in, hit subscribe button. 54 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,640 Leave us a review once you've listened to the show, ideally 5 55 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:15,560 stars if you've enjoyed it. If you've not let us know and 56 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:18,080 we'll, we'll try and improve things for you or just agree and 57 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:19,440 can see that it's not the podcast for you. 58 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,480 And if you want to talk to other Shopify stores, we have a 59 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:24,480 community we're building at the moment called the growth hub. 60 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,080 So go to wwspodcast.com and click on the growth Hub and you 61 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:30,520 do have to request to join. We only let brands in, but 62 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:32,320 request to join and we should get back to you within one to 63 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,360 two business days with a unique link to join in the community. 64 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,640 There's some incredible brands in there. 65 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:38,680 And one of my guests, the second I'm going to introduce has 66 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:40,200 actually appeared on one of our round tables. 67 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,000 We've done in there as well. Without further ado, we've got a 68 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,000 really interesting story. And as I say, my guests, I have 69 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,760 two guests with me today. And annoyingly, this is neither 70 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,800 of their fault. They're both called Brian, which 71 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,600 is slightly frustrating for me. So we're going to have Burton 72 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,960 Brian from Burton Goods, who I'm going to introduce in a second 73 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:58,880 and we're going to hear from that Brian 1st. 74 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,520 And we've also got Sagun O'Brien and I'm going to call them that 75 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,280 today. And I'm a very tired new parent, 76 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:05,720 so I might get the names, names muddled up. 77 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,480 This is the worst timing for this to be thrown at me, but I 78 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,200 accept the challenge. So Burton Brian, why don't you 79 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:12,560 kick us off? Welcome to the show. 80 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,920 Tell us how you are today. Give us a bit of a background to 81 00:03:14,920 --> 00:03:17,120 your business that you run at the moment. 82 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,560 Good to meet you, Nick. Nice to be on the show. 83 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:24,360 I we are. Burton Goods is a small 84 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,880 Minneapolis business, Minneapolis, MN and the USA. 85 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:33,400 We design and sell online luxury leather accessory goods. 86 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,440 So think iPad cases, iPhone cases. 87 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,880 We're getting into leather bags eventually. 88 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:43,560 Yeah. We design everything here, work 89 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,880 with our vendors. We ship out of Minneapolis in 90 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,720 our warehouse and we use Shopify as a platform. 91 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,760 So, and it's been, it's been all amazing actually. 92 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,720 Absolutely. And obviously we've got Sagoon 93 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,320 O'Brien with us. I'm going to introduce in a 94 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:58,800 moment. So you guys are using Sagoon, 95 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,040 you're on Shopify, but that's not always been the case and 96 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,360 we're going to talk about that as we go through. 97 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,080 So if you're sitting there not on Shopify going, Oh my gosh, 98 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,680 this all sounds too good to be true. 99 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,560 The grass is always greener. There are downsides to Shopify, 100 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,600 but we're going to, we're going to talk about the move you've 101 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:13,600 made from some of those other platforms in a second. 102 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,480 But Sagoon O'Brien, if people have never heard of you, it 103 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,200 means plumes have never listened to the show because you are one 104 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,680 of our sponsors and actually one of our longest running sponsors. 105 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Well, you've been on the show a few times yourself. 106 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:24,880 You've been to a round table, we've done the Growth Hub. 107 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,080 If someone lives under a rock or in a cave or both. 108 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,880 Under a rock in a cave. Tell us a bit about yourself, 109 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,240 Brian, and also a bit about Saguno. 110 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:34,560 Yeah. Hey, Nick, thanks for having me 111 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,440 back. I think this is my third or 112 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:38,720 fourth time on here so. Absolute pleasure. 113 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:40,160 Good. Time and A and a good 114 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,640 conversation to be together. So I'm from Saguno Software. 115 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:47,760 We are a marketing platform built exclusively for Shopify 116 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,960 and built inside Shopify. So we love working with brands 117 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,040 like Burton and helping to build out e-mail marketing strategy, 118 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,440 pop up strategy, product review strategy. 119 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,600 We also have a number of other products for unique discount 120 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,200 codes and a Canva connection that is quite popular at the 121 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,000 moment, new product that we launched this year. 122 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:10,560 So really excited to be back here. 123 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,640 You can find me anytime, suguner.com. 124 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,880 You can book a call with us and, you know, talk about e-mail 125 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:21,680 marketing strategy. And Brian and I actually get to 126 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,400 spend a ton of time together. I think we had a conversation a 127 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:28,400 couple weeks ago about how Burton was doing and then might 128 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:31,640 have had a little tangent into Asheville brewery scenes. 129 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,680 Yeah. So I love getting to work with 130 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:41,160 brands and helping to, to build programs and helping to, to 131 00:05:41,400 --> 00:05:43,920 basically build businesses as best I can. 132 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,960 So really excited to be back here and talk about that today. 133 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,280 Amazing, amazing and so good to have both Brian Burton on for 134 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:52,120 the first time and also Saguno Brian on. 135 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:53,680 And again, I'm going to refer to them as that. 136 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,920 They're left and right on my screen. 137 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,520 So we'll see how we get on with this, but we're going to start 138 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,280 with you, Burt and Brian. And why did you decide to move 139 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:05,880 from Magento into Shopify? Yeah, yeah. 140 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:10,920 So like, why would you get out of a quicksand into like clean 141 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,680 Prairie that's warm and cool greases. 142 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:19,240 And yeah, no, Magento was was basically I was using Magento on 143 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,480 her on the business that I ran before. 144 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,200 And so when I hit when I started over, basically I started over. 145 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:27,800 We'll get into that possibly later. 146 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,000 I decided to work with Shopify because I thought, you know, 147 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,680 it's the easiest way to enter into. 148 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,040 I did the whole what is a dollar a month plan for three months. 149 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:43,240 I built the website out myself in three months and got ready to 150 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:47,400 relaunch a new brand and and I didn't want to have anything to 151 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,680 do with Magento because it I mean, for the obvious reasons. 152 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:52,520 Magento is extremely complicated. 153 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:59,480 You need a eating coders less now with AI as AI can help you 154 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,840 code, but I it's it's still a ton of work. 155 00:07:02,840 --> 00:07:07,720 There's tons of plug in issues and security issues. 156 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:09,440 One of that was one of the biggest things we had was 157 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,400 security issues with our old site in Magento. 158 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,240 And we haven't had, I don't think we've had any at all with 159 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,680 Shopify. So yeah, it's been, it's been 160 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,680 like night and day different actually for a small business 161 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,680 owner like me. Yeah, 100%. 162 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,680 And I mean as as an SEO agency, we've done loads of migrations. 163 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,360 We've done one from Shopify Plus into Magenta Tea, but it's only 164 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,720 because we were, we were basically doing so much with the 165 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,200 Shopify engine, it started breaking and it was like, 166 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,000 actually we need to, we need to get an engine we can convert up 167 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,960 from like AV6 to AV12 using a car analogy. 168 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,440 And but having done so many of those migrations, I think one of 169 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,360 the frustrations we find, it sounds like you've had the same 170 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,120 thing as you're sitting there going, I should be spending my 171 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:57,080 time doing sales and marketing and getting more customers in, 172 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,040 getting more lifetime value out of our customers. 173 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:01,880 But actually I'm sitting here on a three hour call that's costing 174 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,400 me $1000 with the developers to basically just go from like 175 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:07,880 we've we've dropped below Ground Zero on our security again, I 176 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,120 want to get back. Whereas actually on Shopify, 177 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:13,680 it's like every Shopify store in the world can be on shop Pay, 178 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,160 for example, when you're already part of the whole ecosystem 179 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:18,320 where people can order products and review themselves. 180 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,600 And as you say, it's a dollar a month to start or whatever the 181 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,080 rate the rate is now. Do you ever find that in your 182 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,880 warehouse you have dead stock, You can't sell it, no one wants 183 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:27,320 to buy it and you can't get a refund on it. 184 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,640 Or alternatively, you're missing inventory in your warehouse that 185 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:32,799 you need, you've got sales coming in and you're low on 186 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:35,520 stock and you haven't ordered more stock in time. 187 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,559 All these things hit profit. And I've been there. 188 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,159 I've run my own Shopify store and had exactly that problem. 189 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,320 But we've partnered up with Inventory Planner who have the 190 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:45,880 most incredible app to help you manage that and forecast exactly 191 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:49,200 what products, what skews even down to what colour of product 192 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,320 you need to order in advance to make sure stock levels remain 193 00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,000 consistent throughout. They're also running a seven day 194 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,400 boot camp. And if you want to go and sign 195 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,360 up to that, it's 7 emails every seven days and it takes the same 196 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:00,920 amount of time as your morning coffee. 197 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:03,400 And in seven days, like me, you can become an inventory 198 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,720 management pro. Both links are in the 199 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:06,960 description. Enjoy. 200 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:08,960 I'm going to jump around slightly. 201 00:09:08,960 --> 00:09:11,880 I know we just agreed the plan for it, but you've mentioned the 202 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,760 previous business and I would love to, before we start talking 203 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,520 about kind of directly into e-mail, I want to jump ahead. 204 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,600 I think just to get a bit more context on this. 205 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,760 Tell us about the previous business and you mentioned 206 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,360 before we hit record bankruptcy as well. 207 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,240 There must be some amazing stories that you've had out of 208 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,000 this and some challenges, some real learnings. 209 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,600 Talk us through some of those like kind of leading into 210 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,720 Shopify and then we can talk about that kind of e-mail base 211 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,960 and what the e-mail journey looked like of telling those 212 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,120 customers what had happened. Yeah, yeah. 213 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:46,320 So to tell it really short and as succinct as I can, the pan 214 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:51,360 call started in 2010. We were making accessories again 215 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:56,240 for iPad in 2010 and it expanded into leather goods over the next 216 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,640 15 years. I started by painting my web 217 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,120 designer's deck. She built me a website. 218 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:09,040 We, we, we didn't do any, we didn't do any ad buys for the 219 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,360 first three years. We just talked to the press and 220 00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:15,040 Wired featured us and CNET featured us and all these 221 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,600 different publications. So we were growing in those 222 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,640 early days of the, you know, the 20 tens. 223 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,760 There was a lot of growth, a lot of growth and it, and it 224 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:30,800 expanded quickly. But then over I think from 20, I 225 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,800 think it was around 2018-2019, we started running into some 226 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,920 financial issues. I had some personal issues that 227 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,280 went on and then the pandemic hit. 228 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:42,640 And after all of that, Pat and Quill couldn't make it. 229 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,840 We had, we had accumulated too much debt over time that we 230 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,120 could no longer maintain. So it it went under in 20, the 231 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,400 end of 2023. Yeah. 232 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,800 And so when I knew I was going to have to declare bankruptcy, I 233 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:02,440 decided that was when I decided, OK, I, you know, 1:00, AM I even 234 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,960 going to do this job again? I wasn't sure if I was going to 235 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,320 do what I was doing. I was a little burnt out. 236 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:14,600 My wife who was a big support to me in the second business, she 237 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:17,680 just said, well, you love it. So I think you should do it. 238 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,080 You should do, you should think about it and maybe be inspired 239 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:23,440 by something. So I started thinking about it 240 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:27,240 and I was inspired by my dad and he was an engineer and he was an 241 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:29,000 artist. And I thought, you know what 242 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:30,840 it's I'm going to name it after his middle name. 243 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:32,000 I'm going to call it Burton Goods. 244 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,520 And I'm going to try this again, but this time I'm going to do it 245 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:38,640 on my kind of my timeline with all of the experience of 15 246 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,520 years of running a business online. 247 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,800 And so first, first option was Shopify. 248 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:46,760 It's inexpensive. I can build a site as I 249 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,720 mentioned before and we started doing that. 250 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:54,240 I was with MailChimp at the time for e-mail. 251 00:11:55,560 --> 00:11:58,480 I just brought it over. But MailChimp didn't like that. 252 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,920 I just switched companies. They they were like, you can't 253 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:02,880 do this. You can't just. 254 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,680 And they still resending stuff. You can't just e-mail your old 255 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:07,680 list. You, you, you know, you can't. 256 00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,800 And so I started getting getting letters from or you know, emails 257 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,080 from. I'm saying you can't do this. 258 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,600 When we launched and this was in, you know, very early 2024. 259 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,320 And that's when I reached out to Saguno actually because I saw 260 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,880 them on the platform and then they were high rated. 261 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:26,920 And I thought, OK, I'm going to reach out to Saguno, see if they 262 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:30,880 can help me figure out how do I, like, properly reintroduce my 263 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,720 customer base to this new brand because they were loyal 264 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:41,040 customers and I wanted to be. And there was a lot of, as Brian 265 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:44,560 will tell you, there was a lot of emails in there that were 266 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,280 just not being responded to at all. 267 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,480 It was a list that needed serious cleaning. 268 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,000 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. 269 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:54,720 And this segues I think really nicely. 270 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:57,240 I appreciate you sharing that cuz some of those things are 271 00:12:57,240 --> 00:12:59,400 quite personal, but I think I think it's really powerful. 272 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:01,480 It becomes part of our journey and our story. 273 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:04,600 And I also segude O'Brien mentioned just before we hit 274 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,520 record, you've got a book. Is your book about that journey 275 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,920 then is is it about that transition? 276 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,160 Like what's the name of the book and or is it completely 277 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,840 different? It was a that was a joke, Nick. 278 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:17,720 I'm sorry. I should have, I should have 279 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,800 caught on with the new dad. I'm sorry. 280 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,600 I didn't realize you guys had sarcasm the other side of the 281 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:23,600 Atlantic. Oh yeah, I. 282 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,920 Should have seen that coming. That's why I was saying Brock or 283 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,080 Chat GTP could have written the book for me because I definitely 284 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,640 not really. Yeah, maybe we need to, maybe we 285 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:34,160 need to get that book going right now. 286 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,560 We could have that book ready before the episode. 287 00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:39,560 Comes we should we should, I mean, get a book out, Brian, and 288 00:13:39,560 --> 00:13:42,360 it will be in the link right, We'll get that out. 289 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,480 Appreciate, appreciate you sharing that. 290 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,480 There's a lot of personal bits that affect staff. 291 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,920 I think I mean, as business owners, I mean it's one myself. 292 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:52,960 Sometimes you've just got to kind of, you know, get get get 293 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,440 your big pants on, as I say, and just get in the office and get 294 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,360 cracking. It's like, you know, kind of and 295 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:58,840 that that's what resilience is all about. 296 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,920 But obviously there's a technical challenge in there for 297 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,560 muse again, O'Brien of right, we've got this new e-mail list, 298 00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:07,280 like no one knows the new brand and we know what Google and 299 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,480 Microsoft and all the servers are going to do if we suddenly 300 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:11,760 e-mail them all. Talk us through that process of 301 00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:15,400 introducing that new brand to everybody from a both technical 302 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,560 and kind of marketing. No, you're, you're, you're 303 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,520 directly on, on the, the nail with that one. 304 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:27,360 I mean, the biggest thing is, you know, we, you can't, you're, 305 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,200 you're on. And I think it probably breaks 306 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:31,920 so many people's hearts that I can't just take an e-mail list 307 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,040 from one brand and say, I've got all these emails and I can, I 308 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:39,560 can send them whatever I want. You can you're welcome to most 309 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:41,400 of those emails are going to end up blocked or in the spam 310 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,320 folder. And one of the things that is 311 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:47,000 really important to us is that when we're sending emails to 312 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,560 customers that our customers are that our customers are 313 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,160 successful reaching their customers. 314 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,880 And so that really is a guiding principle for us to protect the 315 00:14:56,880 --> 00:15:00,440 inbox from that junk, which then make sure that the good emails 316 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:03,240 do make it into the inbox. Something that was really unique 317 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,360 was I actually, I knew about Pat and Quill before I got into E 318 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:09,000 Com and before I got into e-mail marketing. 319 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,840 I was working at the Apple Store and a few of the, the guys at 320 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,200 the Genius Bar had their PQ cases and everyone was always 321 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,840 envious. And you know, something that was 322 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:21,360 really cool is it was never just like 1 product, right? 323 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:26,360 It was you had fans, real people that were, were truly fans. 324 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:30,120 So, you know, I always whenever somebody says I need to rebrand, 325 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:31,520 I approach it with a little skepticism. 326 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:34,120 In Brian's case, I had, I already had a personal 327 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,240 connection. I knew that he was being honest 328 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,200 that these are my customers and they love me. 329 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,720 And a lot of these, I have 10 year buying relationships, 15 330 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:43,040 year buying relationships with them. 331 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:44,320 They've been with me the whole way. 332 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:49,760 So what we needed to do was really make sure that the the 333 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:55,000 story of who is Burton Goods and how did they end up in my inbox 334 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,840 come across. Brian had already done a really 335 00:15:57,840 --> 00:16:01,360 nice job writing up a landing page about what happened to PQ 336 00:16:02,360 --> 00:16:04,800 and then where Burton came from that. 337 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,600 So that was a big part of what we wanted to do with 338 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,360 introduction. But it's not just that easy. 339 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:15,840 It's you can't just take, you know, thousands and thousands of 340 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,840 e-mail address and just say, hey, by the way, this is what 341 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:18,320 happened. Yeah. 342 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,320 Because if they don't recognize it right away, it's a it's a 343 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:22,200 problem. Yeah. 344 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,160 So and buy this product, look at these images, see all these 345 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:26,800 links? It's like it's just a nightmare, 346 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,040 isn't it? It's all the things you don't 347 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,680 want a spam filter get in its hands on. 348 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,440 Yeah, and we, I mean, Brian was really open to, to our input and 349 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,640 that helped a lot for me. You know, where we, I don't 350 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:41,520 think we, Brian, we didn't even feature products in the first 351 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:43,400 couple of emails. It was a personal note. 352 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:47,720 You know, we used a signature section in there to make it look 353 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,200 like he had signed the e-mail. And it was all of the whole CTA 354 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:58,440 was driving back to what happened to PQ in that customer 355 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:00,880 relationship, I think was something that Brian held onto. 356 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,560 But in order to get to the inbox for that first one, we had to 357 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,280 sift through all the MailChimp data and say, I need to find 358 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:13,599 those super fans 1st. And this is something that we've 359 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:18,480 talked about a lot, Nick before, but by taking a your, your list 360 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,480 and everyone thinks their list is just a monolith of just, I 361 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,800 have an e-mail list and just push this block forward. 362 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,000 But there's really, there are valuable sections within that 363 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,040 list. And so we've started to dig into 364 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,800 previous purchase data from Magento and previous engagement 365 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:37,200 data from MailChimp. And we found those little bits 366 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,720 and we started by stacking the deck with those little bits and 367 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:44,400 getting those folks to to send. So I think Brian, if I remember 368 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,880 correctly, the first e-mail that we sent with Saguno had an open 369 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,800 rate over 50%. And it was a lower volume, but 370 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,720 it was, it's, it proved that hey, there are people that want 371 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,080 to hear from this. And it had a very low 372 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:02,880 unsubscribe rate. And then we said, great, now 373 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,560 let's take the next level of fans and the next level of fans. 374 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:08,320 And we kept repeating that process until we've gotten 375 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,920 through everybody that had a previous buying relationship 376 00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,360 with, with Brian or had been engaging with e-mail from 377 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,120 MailChimp with Pat and Quill before. 378 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,120 And so it's, it's not a, a fast process. 379 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,240 But you know, there's another fortunate part of being on 380 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,680 Brian's timeline was I want to do this right. 381 00:18:28,920 --> 00:18:30,840 We're willing to work with you to get it right. 382 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,200 And so those are my favorite projects where I get to sink my 383 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,880 teeth into it and say, all right, we're, we've got a 384 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:40,960 problem to solve. We know we've got a a a really 385 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:44,400 strong possible outcome on the other end, so let's work towards 386 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,520 it. Yeah, yeah. 387 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:48,440 And to use a massive buzzword, I think it's the word of the year 388 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:51,120 in the USA year or two ago. It's authenticity. 389 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,760 So the story you were telling is so authentic. 390 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,040 And I, I think I, I was looking the other day like, and I think 391 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,600 I asked like a few AI bots this and read some, a couple of sort 392 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,640 of short books about it. But what makes someone believe 393 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,400 something is authentic? And one of the biggest criteria 394 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,680 is it's something you'd be stupid to make up. 395 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,640 And I think actually having that honest conversation with your 396 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,320 customers, who on earth starts a new business, say, hey, we did 397 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,000 it so badly last time. It's like that isn't the most 398 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,160 authentic way to start a conversation. 399 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,640 I've certainly noticed more and more over the last probably year 400 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:26,760 or two, the amount of guests we get on here who probably a big 401 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,760 chunk of what they say actually is not like, hey, we've done 402 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:29,760 this and done this and done this. 403 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,200 A lot of it is like, look, we make a ton of mistakes and 404 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,080 actually we just every eight mistakes, we need a success like 405 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,640 or whatever their ratio is, you know, we need something to go 406 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,520 right. And so I think doing it in that 407 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,360 staggered approach, there must have been and to ask a slightly 408 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,240 poignant question on this, there must have been some points for 409 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,560 both of you guys. And we'll go to Burton Bryan 410 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,640 first told you're going to use those names and we're going to 411 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:51,880 go to Burton Bryan first. There must have been points 412 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,600 where you were thinking like, oh, I'm done, just hit send all. 413 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,120 But like actually holding your nerve to say, no, we're in the 414 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:58,480 process at the end of the process. 415 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,280 We need to get this process right or it's going to fail. 416 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,480 Yeah, yeah. Oh, there was, that would be 417 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,680 when the numbers were decreasing in how many we were, we had a 418 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,040 very large list that went like this. 419 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:15,640 And I was like, oh, no. And the reason why was because a 420 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:20,000 lot of these emails were not, no one was ever responding. 421 00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:23,120 And he said, and you know, Brian at Saguna was telling me he's 422 00:20:23,120 --> 00:20:26,360 like, this isn't helping your, this is hurting you. 423 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,320 This is hurting your reputation because these are people who are 424 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,200 never opening and we need to stop sending. 425 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,000 So it was whittling down an e-mail list that was, I thought, 426 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,360 was this this big number? And it got, it's about probably 427 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:42,680 half of what. I think that's about right. 428 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,760 I think we ended up about half of the original. 429 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,240 And it's interesting because it it, it's fine because these are 430 00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:50,040 the people that actually are engaged. 431 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,640 And that's wonderful. And that part I love. 432 00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,760 And I guess by doing that, the ones you are the one that the 433 00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,760 half that are reaching, that you're reaching now, you're 434 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,000 probably reaching more and more engaged because you've 435 00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,920 understood them more and you're getting through more spam 436 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,840 filters. So more emails are being 437 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,200 delivered. Saguno Brian, I'd love to ask 438 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,520 you that the same question. Like were there any points as 439 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:14,200 well where you were? You know, did you kind of stick 440 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,440 to your professional guns at all points going no, no, we've got 441 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:17,960 to stick to this? Or were there moments you were 442 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,920 like, I just, you know, control a send, you know, to send 443 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,640 everybody like there? You know, I'm basically asking 444 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,960 the question, how scary is it for brands to go through the 445 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:30,560 process that Burton Brian's just, you know, just been 446 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:31,760 through over the last couple of years? 447 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:34,760 Yeah. Well, I mean, I think there's I, 448 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,080 I apologise if my earlier statement made it think that it 449 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,800 was just a nice smooth ramp. Oh, it didn't sound that. 450 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:43,000 Don't worry. That was like the challenge, I 451 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:43,520 think. Yeah, yeah. 452 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,680 Brian and I had to step back and reset maybe two or three times 453 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:50,080 before your first large product launch. 454 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:56,040 And the honest piece is, Nick, I could have just tried to stick 455 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:01,960 to my guns, but I have. It's the point of the e-mail 456 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,880 program is not just to drive opens and clicks, right? 457 00:22:05,120 --> 00:22:07,400 It's to actually support the business. 458 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:12,400 It's to bring customers in. So to not pay attention to what 459 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,720 Brian's business priorities were and when we needed to have a 460 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,480 sale or when big things were going through, then I wouldn't 461 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:21,600 have been a good partner in that way. 462 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,120 So there were, I think a few times early on where we said, 463 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:28,320 you know what, we're going to try to do a bigger send or for 464 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:33,400 this weekend only, we're going to forget our best practices and 465 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,480 hope that we have enough goodwill with the Googles and 466 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,440 the Microsofts of the world to just look the other way. 467 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:44,120 Just for three days, please. And sometimes they did, and 468 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:48,080 sometimes they did I. Sometimes they did, and I. 469 00:22:48,120 --> 00:22:49,760 Believe they didn't more than they did. 470 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:54,200 But yeah, that is the problem. When they didn't, it took us two 471 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,000 weeks or three weeks to to clean it up afterwards. 472 00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,200 When they did, you know, it was, it was much nicer. 473 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,160 And then Brian was very busy making sure that everything was 474 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:07,200 going well on the site and fulfilling orders and all of his 475 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,600 his side. And I got to sit back and be 476 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,920 proud. But now the, you know, the the 477 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:19,000 big pieces were when you start to build that reputation, you're 478 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,320 sending, you get to the inbox, the inbox providers know all of 479 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,680 these things they're seeing. How are people opening and 480 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,120 clicking? How long are they opening and 481 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,360 clicking? You know, your suspicion about 482 00:23:28,360 --> 00:23:31,040 did your phone know what your e-mail said probably is true. 483 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,600 Yeah. You know, so all of those little 484 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,480 pieces where the the providers know, do people want to get your 485 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,560 emails? And then when you build up that 486 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:47,640 reputation that it gives you more, you know, more goodwill 487 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,240 to, to get through to some of those marginal inboxes. 488 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,360 And then they'll start to release more of those in there. 489 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,480 And, and what we're typically looking at is both the, the 490 00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,360 classic Gmail inbox and the promotions folder and other, 491 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:01,280 other folks. And I know there's a love hate 492 00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,920 relationship with promotions folder. 493 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,280 And I'm so glad that Gmail's doing things like annotations 494 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,120 and making those more shoppable. And we've actually just released 495 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,360 a new product carousel for if your emails are in promotions, 496 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:18,200 which is a really cool way. But all of those things to say 497 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:22,920 that they start to believe that Brian at Burton is sending 498 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:24,600 emails that his customers want to receive. 499 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:27,680 So when the volume starts to increase a little bit more, 500 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:29,040 they're going to keep letting those through. 501 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:33,080 When the volume spikes up without us really doing a any 502 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,400 kind of ramp during that time, then they say, whoa, that's way 503 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,160 too much. You used to send X, now you send 504 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,960 2X what's going on? But what a lot of folks can do 505 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:45,480 is they can say I need to send to my most engaged contacts the 506 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,920 most of the time, and then I need to send it to my full list 507 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,840 during the most important commercial seasons. 508 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,320 So that would be big sales or product launches, things like 509 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,640 that. So that was a big piece that 510 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,080 that we monitored on our side. And then Brian, I'm sure would 511 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,480 dread getting an e-mail from me of the update about ascending. 512 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:09,200 Reputation False False Not true. And I mean, just to they are 513 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,720 obviously a sponsor, some technically getting paid for 514 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:15,040 saying this, but if you're a brand going, oh, we must have 515 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,520 good record of that. It's a measurable statistic you 516 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,840 can look at and I, I'm going to, I'm going to go out on a limb 517 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,240 here and say most brands I've ever worked with, which is like 518 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:28,280 over 2 or 3000 now, I haven't counted recently, but in the 519 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,560 thousands of brands I've worked with for nearly two decades, 520 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:35,080 almost all of them have no idea what their postmaster scores are 521 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,480 or how like what grades they're getting in the inboxes right 522 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:39,520 now. It's one of them. 523 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:42,240 If you, if you use Saguno's e-mail platform built into 524 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:44,400 Shopify, Shopify only you use it. 525 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,200 You can reach out to them and they will give you some support 526 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,800 on how to find that out. You can obviously Google it, 527 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,280 ChatGPT will tell you where to do it and where to find it. 528 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,120 But if you don't have that information, you were already 529 00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:54,800 losing. And when it comes to the e-mail 530 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,080 game, because it will probably be bad if you're not aware. 531 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,120 And the second point I would make as well is in fixing that, 532 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,840 it opens so many doors to your business that are very, very 533 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,320 cost effective, apart from paying for Saguno, which is, you 534 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,120 know, excuse me, Brian Saguno for a SEC, but it is 535 00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,080 interchangeable compared to other e-mail platforms. 536 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,200 It's not mega expensive. It's not the cheapest one in the 537 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:16,360 world. You're going to pay for an 538 00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:18,200 e-mail platforms, you've got to pay for an e-mail platform. 539 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,320 Whatever you do, you're not going to use the Shopify default 540 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,160 one. It's a bit rubbish. 541 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,000 And but what you're already paying all these things are free 542 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:26,880 to then get more from that. It's so important. 543 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,520 So we won't go into detail now, but if you want to find out, go 544 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,800 and reach out to Brian at Saguno and, and, and get get a steer on 545 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:35,600 that. And we've also spoken about it a 546 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,000 couple of times before as well. So if you Google Brian Saguno 547 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,840 winning with Shopify, you'll probably find some old episodes. 548 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,880 Our partners at Saguno released a brand new app for Shopify and 549 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,960 it's called Shopify Connect 4 Canva. 550 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,600 You can essentially look at all of your product images from 551 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,800 Shopify directly in Canva and export them straight back. 552 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,920 This can save you a lot of time if you want to find out a bit 553 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:56,680 more about this or go and you'll find the app yourself. 554 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,280 You can go to saguno.com/camber. Enjoy. 555 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,080 That became a building block, didn't it, Burton, Brian, still 556 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,680 using the names and see that became a building block for you 557 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,200 guys. And you guys hit some milestones 558 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,120 quite ahead of the schedule you'd set. 559 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,480 Talk us through the next bit of the story then. 560 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,240 So you told everyone you'd change, you'd done some product 561 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:17,280 launches. What are some of these 562 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:18,560 milestones that we're talking about? 563 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,720 Yeah, just to go back on one thing you just said. 564 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:23,680 I am an example of what you just said. 565 00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,200 I had no idea there was even a postmaster score. 566 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,040 And I've been in this business since 2010 until Brian from 567 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,160 Seguno told me, did you know there's a postmaster score of 568 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,520 your e-mail? I was like, there is and I had 569 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,960 no, he, he walked me through IP. You know what the IP score is, 570 00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,080 what your web, you know the all the different scores. 571 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,240 I had no idea. I was actually the. 572 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,800 Same. Very new to me. 573 00:27:50,800 --> 00:27:53,240 Yeah. We we had the same with our 574 00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,000 emails. So, oh Phillip, this is almost 575 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,360 becoming one of those anonymous sessions where we can all share 576 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,520 our our failures that Brian. Yeah. 577 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,080 And what I mean, what I'm trying to say is that that's why I felt 578 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,720 like Brian and the team at Saguno had really partnered with 579 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:09,200 me. They had really come around me 580 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,480 because there was a they were teaching me things I had never 581 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,640 been told. Now MailChimp was probably 1 of 582 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,120 that's where I'd come from and they were. 583 00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,040 I was with MailChimp for 15 straight years. 584 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,480 I can't tell you how much money I spent on MailChimp. 585 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,880 Wow. Quite a bit. 586 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,880 And I don't think anyone ever reached out to me for MailChimp 587 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,960 ever. I don't think I've ever gotten a 588 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,640 call, which is incredible to me. That's incredible. 589 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,480 And so with Saguno, I was called. 590 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:43,720 I think Brian, you reached out within days after we signed on. 591 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,320 Yeah, Yeah, I think so. So it was, it was night and day. 592 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,200 As far as the next phase, I just wanted to go over that because 593 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,080 that's important. It was, it was a big deal when 594 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,600 that happened. Next phase was we, we got to, so 595 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,360 customer base got engaged. We were building very slowly. 596 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,360 I wasn't able to pay myself any salary or very, very little. 597 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:14,160 But then the Apple released new iPads last year, all new iPad 598 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:15,960 Pros which were totally redesigned. 599 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:19,680 And that's my sweet spot. That's that's how I started the 600 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:25,000 company in 2010. The old one, I knew what I was 601 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,120 doing when it came to iPad, how to design a really nice case 602 00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,240 that really was functional and beautiful. 603 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,600 And so we went after it hard and it it just exploded. 604 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,920 Our revenue exploded starting in I think it was about a May of 605 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,280 this year. Yeah, actually May of a year 606 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,960 ago. So we had a really big year. 607 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,440 So I was able to start paying myself a salary by I think July. 608 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,640 Yeah, a minimal salary, which is great. 609 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,320 Which is pretty early for a new business. 610 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:55,000 Normally just keep reinvesting. Yeah, yeah. 611 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:57,560 Yeah, yeah. And then and then the other 612 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,640 thing was I the big milestone was build an inventory with no 613 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,480 debt. That was what killed PAD and 614 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,040 Quill was was leveraging far too much debt to expand the business 615 00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:11,960 too quickly. That's something we've been able 616 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:14,040 to do. And that was a big deal. 617 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,080 So I own a lot, all the inventory. 618 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,200 It's far exceeds any small debt we have. 619 00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:22,160 And it's that's a huge part of it. 620 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,800 And a lot of that has to do with engagement with customers. 621 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,360 So, yeah, and that's one thing I wanted to bring up too. 622 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,800 You didn't ask this, but I was just gonna say really quick. 623 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,400 The thing with e-mail that I learned from the old company to 624 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:39,240 the new was that I had not been really engaging customers as 625 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,400 well as I could have. I think part of it was that I 626 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:47,640 was too kind of not aware because I was so busy and 627 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,880 overwhelmed. But in this business, we've been 628 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,920 using e-mail to really engage with I, I, I don't know if 629 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,600 you've seen this, Brian recently, but I have. 630 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,600 A lot of my posts are about our newest blog posts and we're 631 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,000 doing comedic blog posts and we're doing like how to blog 632 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,520 posts and I'm actually really enjoying all of this. 633 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,840 Customers seem to be reading it. I don't care if they buy 634 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,000 anything. I'm kind of hoping you just 635 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000 click on it and read a little bit of the post. 636 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:18,040 So are you telling me you enjoy doing blog posts and e-mail more 637 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,480 than sitting on developer calls at Magenta about security 638 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,200 updates? Is that yes? 639 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:26,440 Yes, yes, believe it or not, it was way more interesting. 640 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,200 That's good, yeah. Yeah, but I think it's exactly, 641 00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,280 I mean it sounds like you've you've almost got the tool stack 642 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,880 that works for you. And I'm going to use the phrase 643 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,520 works for you because it is all relative and it's different for 644 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,680 other people. Some people want way more 645 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,320 flexibility and you could get with Saguna or Shopify and that 646 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:41,080 kind of tech stack. But it's working. 647 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:42,640 I think you've got you've got the tech stack now that's 648 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,520 working for your business. But with this product launch, I 649 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:47,440 mean you jumped on it quickly. You must have jumped on it 650 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,600 certainly the premium iPads case market. 651 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,320 So you must have been so much earlier than anybody else when 652 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:54,840 the new iPad Pro and everything came out. 653 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,000 So goon O'Brien, what happened? I mean, I know they would have 654 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,040 gone up, like, talk us through the e-mail open rates, the click 655 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,760 rates, like how engaged were the audience in this new product 656 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,840 launch and everything was going on. 657 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,760 Yeah. Well, that was a big piece that 658 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,840 was leading to earlier was Brian let me know as early as I think 659 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,200 he could that we needed to be prepared for that launch. 660 00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,560 He needed the list to be ramped up and ready to go when the case 661 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,000 came out. And so that gave us a deadline 662 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:25,080 that gave us a big goal of great, you know, we have 663 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:26,720 products that we can sell in the meantime. 664 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,080 We obviously want to start to to sell those products and support 665 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,440 Burton at that point. And then when the iPad case came 666 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,800 out, I remember looking at the open rates and the click rates 667 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,280 and just like, OK, it happened. And Brian, absolutely right. 668 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,200 You know, all of a sudden you're getting when you're getting 669 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:47,400 double digit click rates and, and you know, those are, you 670 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,000 know, pretty, pretty strong indicators. 671 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,720 And I think the conversion rates are way up as well. 672 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,120 And still a fairly new business, new domain. 673 00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,240 So like it's all quite early for those things to start getting to 674 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,240 that level. Yeah, yeah, at that, at that 675 00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:04,360 time, absolutely a couple months, that's a pretty quick 676 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,000 ramp. But that that goes back to the 677 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,440 relationship that Brian had that we were not building completely 678 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,680 from cold that we had a relationship. 679 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,280 He had a high quality product before that he was able to be 680 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,760 able to you know, carry that, that forward with us. 681 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,000 But that is that's something that I think is a challenge. 682 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,480 You know, I, I don't know. And Brian, maybe, you know, 683 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,400 we've never talked about this, but I don't know if you chose to 684 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,000 launch Burton knowing the iPad launch was coming up in six 685 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:34,280 months and that was going to be the goal. 686 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,440 But you know. I don't know ideas by. 687 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:42,360 Phone every year, you know, I think I'm on, I'm on, you know, 688 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,960 3 year old period at this point. But when Brian's talking about 689 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:49,520 sending out content that's engaging, you have to keep that 690 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:52,840 relationship going and keep Burton at the top of their mind 691 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,360 until they buy the next product, until the new Airpods come out 692 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,280 or until they're new. You know, the MacBook finally 693 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:02,440 bites the dust after I think I've got one that's still 694 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,840 running from 2012, but it's still going, you know, like 695 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,080 those are you have to stay in mind. 696 00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:12,440 So the comedic posts, the, you know, those blog posts, I think 697 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,639 Brian started recording videos of showing the products at one 698 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,000 point and those were just crushing it and just finding new 699 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:24,239 ways to, to really kind of show off the, the products and keep, 700 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,520 again, keep that going. But to be really honest, Nick, 701 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:30,960 the, I had done all my work up to that point when Brian 702 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,520 launched the iPad cases, it was really just the, OK, that's why 703 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,199 we did it all open rates, click rates skyrocket. 704 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,639 And now we're on to how do we take all of the people that love 705 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:43,600 their iPad case and get them into a phone case and get them 706 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,080 into one of the incredible Apple Watch bands or get them into 707 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,480 some of the, you know, the new accessories that are coming out, 708 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,719 the more device agnostic ones that are coming out. 709 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,600 So that's really where you take the, the retention side of it. 710 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,240 And that's our next goal that we have to do so. 711 00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,920 Absolutely. And you've mentioned quite a few 712 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,680 of the products. And if you're not watching on 713 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,160 YouTube or any of our video platforms, guys like you're 714 00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,440 missing out. And this is where really this is 715 00:35:07,440 --> 00:35:09,600 a line for me. It's about opportunities. 716 00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:11,320 Bert and Bryant, talk us through. 717 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:12,600 That's obviously an iPad case. Yeah. 718 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:13,960 Talk us through some of the products. 719 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,960 So this is a new iPad case we're about trying to release and it's 720 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,640 a new leather. It's an aged amber leather. 721 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,040 It's magnetic. So the iPad actually is sitting 722 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,120 in here magnetically very thin, so you can take it out quickly 723 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:29,960 and put it into your magic keyboard. 724 00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,720 It's protective and and slim. We've been listening to 725 00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:36,520 customers. They were feeling our current 726 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:38,160 magnetic case was a little bulky. 727 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:42,040 So we wanted to come up with something very, very slim and 728 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:44,480 easy to use. And then like this is an iPhone, 729 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:48,720 here's an iPhone 16 case that we do with stitching and has some 730 00:35:48,720 --> 00:35:53,200 reverse chevrons, and then we have Magsafe stands. 731 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,560 That's really cool. So you can put those in, you 732 00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,880 know, cards in there. Yeah, Saguna, Brian, you 733 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,000 shouldn't be too surprised because you've been sending 734 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,600 emails with this stuff in, but. I hadn't seen the Magsafe. 735 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,320 Oh no. Well, this hasn't. 736 00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:07,880 Well, and it hasn't. It's it. 737 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:10,840 By the time this broadcast, it may have launched. 738 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,840 We'll see. All right, so see Nick, I'm I'm 739 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,320 in the clearance a new we're not in the lab together exactly as 740 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:19,400 a. Good broadcaster. 741 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,280 I'll now say this is a winning with Shopify exclusive. 742 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,080 It's the only. Place it is. 743 00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,520 But I think I mean, the products are amazing and you know, kind 744 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,400 of come back to your point, Saguna, Brian about that, you 745 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:33,080 know, the open rates and things. Sometimes we are presented with 746 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,200 our own goal. And actually, I think what 747 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,120 you've just described really well, if I use a metaphor for 748 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,360 this, is if you're not ready to right the football, the own goal 749 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,440 is irrelevant. And actually, Bert and Brian, 750 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,400 you guys were well situated. All the right knowledge and 751 00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:46,800 everything. You've just shown the fact that 752 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,840 you guys create your own products and create them on 753 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:51,640 sites. It must make your life so easy 754 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,960 to make incredible products because you go, well, let's just 755 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:55,240 make one and we just make one here. 756 00:36:55,240 --> 00:36:56,680 And then we go, that's not very nice. 757 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,400 Let's just modify it as it is or let's go, Do you know what? 758 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,160 I've not ordered 100,000 of these things from China or 759 00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:06,360 Vietnam or something and gone. I don't like the corners, but 760 00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:08,240 they've got to go. We're going to, you just go, 761 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:10,000 well, we'll just make one and it's rubbish, right? 762 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:11,480 We'll just chat that a bit and we'll make a next one. 763 00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,800 And it's much better you say about making it lightweight. 764 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,800 We can do that quickly and find a solution rather than how much 765 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,880 longer would that take if you were having a conversation, even 766 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,520 if they were a mile up the roads, how long does that 767 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,040 conversation take to go? It's still not quite right. 768 00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:25,880 That's not what we want. It's not what our customers have 769 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:29,720 said they want that whole processing journey of processing 770 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:32,360 out a product. Combining that into the last 771 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,240 point on my list about e-mail content, it feels like you've 772 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:39,000 got everything so succinct now about you do this, then we can 773 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:40,800 do that and we can do that. We can ask some questions, 774 00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,400 respond quickly, can even do a live kind of look, these are 775 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,040 three prototypes. What do you guys think? 776 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,960 You must be so much closer engaged to your customers with 777 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:50,840 all the content or the e-mail engagement social than if you 778 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,600 had to order, you know, across the across the world or even 5 779 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,800 miles up the road. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, 780 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,880 to be I, I would say this, I've, I've been, we've been, we 781 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,720 started making products in the US in with Pat and quilt in 15 782 00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:07,920 years ago. And we now make stuff from all 783 00:38:07,920 --> 00:38:11,600 over the world as far as our manufacturing from Mexico, 784 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:16,880 China, Vietnam and and, and there's some US goods we're 785 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,680 looking, I'm actually looking at the factory. 786 00:38:18,680 --> 00:38:21,200 It's, it's actually three blocks from here. 787 00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,200 We're looking at doing some US made goods as well. 788 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:30,840 And yeah, I, I think the key for every product is I used to think 789 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,440 it was, if you like it, your customers will like it. 790 00:38:34,240 --> 00:38:37,600 A little bit of an American view, a little bit of a Steve 791 00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,760 Jobs view. If I'm happy with it, then 792 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,680 they'll be happy with it. And I've, I've come to this 793 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,520 conclusion of, yeah, but you, you, you can't always think like 794 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,400 all your customers. And so I, it's a combination is 795 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,880 what I've learned. It's if I like it and I've 796 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,360 listened to the customer feedback, then we'll have a 797 00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,200 great product. Yeah, yeah. 798 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:02,960 It is really hard though, isn't it? 799 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,880 Because you must be sitting in meetings going. 800 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,080 Everyone's telling me in this meeting that the data and all 801 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:10,360 our customers were saying this is great, but I know it's 802 00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,080 rubbish. So do you sometimes and it's a 803 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,640 really kind of like tangent question, but do you find it 804 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:18,440 difficult sometimes to do you just need to like, because I 805 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:20,840 find this, do you find you have to just take a minute and go? 806 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,480 Just give me 30 seconds guys. Just a process in my head and 807 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,120 get out what I'm trying to explain as to why I why I'm so 808 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,640 against it and whether it's my prejudice or it's actually I 809 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,240 know it's wrong. I just need to kind of navigate 810 00:39:32,240 --> 00:39:34,360 why at this stage. For me it is. 811 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:36,720 Sometimes it stays, sometimes it stays. 812 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,120 I was working with a vendor and I couldn't tell what was wrong, 813 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:42,920 but I knew something was wrong. And after a couple of weeks of, 814 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,760 of doing tests with products and having them make products, I 815 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:50,760 realized they're not exact, they're not precise. 816 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:54,480 They're, they're constantly making excuses for a lack of 817 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:57,680 precision. And my customers want precision. 818 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:01,360 I promise that in the brand, it's called precision Craft. 819 00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:07,160 That's what we do. So yeah, sometimes it's, it's a 820 00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,880 drive home that those revelations happen. 821 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:14,280 But yes, I, I think snap decisions are not ideal in this 822 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,120 business. You have to step back and really 823 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,720 assess. So for me it's drives, that's 824 00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:22,320 that. Absolutely. 825 00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:25,240 And I, I mean, I love a train ride or a drive as much as the 826 00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:27,520 next person. Podcasts on music? 827 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:29,640 Oh no, there's no Wi-Fi. Excellent. 828 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,480 I can speak, speak and think clearly to myself for 10 829 00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,800 minutes. How does that affect then the 830 00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:37,600 electoral newsletters and the content you create using 831 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,600 Saguno's tech? That precision you have in that 832 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,640 close relationship at least with the vendors and products in 833 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,040 internally. How does all of that actually 834 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,960 translate then into coming up with what is, let's be honest, 835 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:50,000 is everybody's kind of challenge with emails? 836 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,240 What story do I tell today? Like I feel like I've told them 837 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:54,880 all. How does that then transpire 838 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,120 into content that gets pushed out? 839 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,360 That's I mean, it's interesting because I think I feel like I'm 840 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,320 in a new, a new era of my professional life of really 841 00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,520 learning to balance out. People want to know what your 842 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,440 products are. People also want to be 843 00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,040 entertained. They want, they want, they want 844 00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,120 content. They want both. 845 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:16,120 They want to know both. They don't want just your 846 00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:18,120 products and they don't just want to be entertained. 847 00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,200 So how do you balance between those two and keep revenue up 848 00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:27,360 and you know, keep money coming in, but also create 849 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,880 entertainment. So that's been something we've 850 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:30,600 been doing. So I there's, we just built a 851 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:36,000 whole new video studio here, got new cameras, spent a lot of 852 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,520 money, 26 frames per second, the whole thing. 853 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,760 And we're going to be working on creating new video content for 854 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,480 customers that it's just a lot more personal for for me. 855 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,840 It's also going to be videos of me, videos of the products. 856 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:55,880 Yeah. So that that's the type of 857 00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,880 things that we want to create more engagement of how how a 858 00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:03,600 customer can experience our products, but also how they can 859 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,040 just kind of enjoy the brand and the passions behind the brand. 860 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,960 Because we have a three pillar passion that we're about here 861 00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,240 and we're gonna we talk about it on the site. 862 00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:15,600 We also talk about in videos. So yeah. 863 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:17,840 Absolutely. And one of the things Brian, 864 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,120 you're talking about there is the, the connection to the 865 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,400 brand. And I think we, we're in an age 866 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,640 where e-commerce means that we have no shortage of choices. 867 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,120 So when people choose to who they're going to, to purchase 868 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,480 with, I think one of the things you've done such an awesome job 869 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,480 with is giving them a brand to connect to and telling the story 870 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:40,800 that, that authenticity that that Nick was talking about 871 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:42,680 earlier on. But even going back to the 872 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:46,320 origin story and to the connection with, you know, being 873 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,960 inspired by your dad and the three pillars and you know, 874 00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,800 those, I think those are the things that continue to make the 875 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,840 e-mail delivery side of things really easy for me because 876 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,080 that's people can connect to it. And you know, the goal is that 877 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:01,880 that will keep bringing them back more and more. 878 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:05,680 Absolutely. Well, look, I've I've just seen 879 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:07,320 the time. I always get carried away in 880 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:09,680 these conversations and we're going to draw things to a close. 881 00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:12,880 But first of all, Sagun O'Brien, firstly, thank you so much for 882 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,600 coming on the show. If people like Brian, I need to 883 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,200 talk to you. I'm like Brian from, from 884 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,520 Burton, I need to have a conversation with you. 885 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:22,400 I've got so many problems. We need to look at your tech. 886 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:24,840 This Canva integration, I've heard so much about it now from 887 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,760 XXL, Scrunchy and a few other brands and now Burton as well. 888 00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:30,560 How can people reach out Saguno? How can they play with the tech? 889 00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,000 Yeah, absolutely. You can go to to siguno.com And 890 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,480 actually right on topic, we actually have a new 891 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,600 deliverability checker. So if you're saying, hey, I 892 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,760 wonder if if I have the issue that maybe Brian might have had 893 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:48,720 back with, with MailChimp for another, another reputable 894 00:43:48,720 --> 00:43:50,880 provider. You know, you can go to 895 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,840 siguno.com/check dash, inbox dash placement or just go to 896 00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:57,680 siguno.com. Scroll down to the bottom you'll 897 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:00,320 see the link right there. You can just go through the 898 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,800 quick quiz that gets reviewed by myself. 899 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:07,240 Deliverability team will shoot you a response and you can 900 00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:12,520 schedule a demo call with myself or with our CSM to say, Hey, 901 00:44:12,520 --> 00:44:14,960 what's the gonna got to offer was my program look like. 902 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:19,240 And I think Brian hopefully will will say that you know, it's low 903 00:44:19,240 --> 00:44:21,400 pressure. It's not a, it's not a high 904 00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,080 pressure sales. So we're here to to learn about 905 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,080 your business and how we can help and if we're the right fit 906 00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:29,040 for you. So again, that's segundo.com, 907 00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,360 not Segundo, seguno.com. And yeah, please check us out. 908 00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:35,960 Amazing. Well, thank you so much for 909 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,400 joining us again, Brian. And as a marketing guy who works 910 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,880 a lot in lead Gen. as much as e-commerce, having a call to 911 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,680 action, like go and check out your e-mail deliverability is 912 00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:47,800 absolute gold dust. So yeah, Saguna, Brian, please 913 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:51,200 milk that every time we talk anywhere that's live because, 914 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:52,880 yeah, it's exactly what brands need. 915 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,640 I think you, I think it's a, it's a really, really good tool 916 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,280 on that. So I'm certainly going to go and 917 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,240 use it and see how much you've got us out in the woods since I 918 00:44:58,240 --> 00:45:00,240 asked you to help with the winning shop for emails. 919 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,040 But anyway, yeah, Burton, Brian, thank you so much for joining 920 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:04,480 the show. I hope you've enjoyed it. 921 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,720 And again, a massive thank you for your time and appreciate you 922 00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:08,240 just being so honest and sharing your story. 923 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,160 Yeah, thanks, Nick. I, I appreciate you guys having 924 00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,920 me on. I, I love what I do. 925 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,640 There's a lot of passion here and it's it's been wonderful to 926 00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:23,680 work with, with both Shopfi and Brian at Seguno because the it's 927 00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:25,680 a it can be very lonely running a. 928 00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,040 Business it can. And it it is lonely and so to 929 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:33,880 have partners who really come alongside you like Seguno has 930 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:37,200 for me has been really a huge blessing. 931 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,840 Thanks for having me. Again, you're very welcome and, 932 00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,960 and again, thanks for your honesty and just sharing some of 933 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,200 the, the problems and challenges as much as like, hey, we've got 934 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,240 amazing business. And if people want to follow you 935 00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:49,680 and see these newsletters, come sign up, even buy some of your 936 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,040 products because let's face it, everyone listening has some sort 937 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,680 of device they're listening to right now. 938 00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:54,800 So they're all potential customers. 939 00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:56,480 And, but how, how can people reach out? 940 00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:58,160 What's the website address? Yeah. 941 00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:00,840 How to join the newsletter? Yeah, the website 942 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:07,160 iswwww.burtongoods.com and if you scroll to the bottom, 943 00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,360 there'll be a sign up for news for the newsletter. 944 00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:13,680 But yeah, you can just check out the check out the products and 945 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:16,600 check out our story. You go to our blog, you'll see a 946 00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,200 lot about our story and what what we're about what's what 947 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,440 we're passionate about so. Amazing. 948 00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:25,320 Well, team Brian, thank you both so much and for everybody tuning 949 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,160 in at home. Yeah, if you want to tune in 950 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:30,120 more than you have as a one off, do you hit that subscribe 951 00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:31,400 button? Please leave us a review. 952 00:46:31,560 --> 00:46:34,760 We post almost every Friday. We've got so many shows lined up 953 00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:36,080 over the next next few weeks to record. 954 00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:37,600 It's amazing. So we're not going to miss 955 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:39,480 another one. The only time we missed one is I 956 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:41,680 literally just had not slept for three days solid. 957 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,080 So it's like because my baby had arrived. 958 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,560 So it's like I am not doing an episode right now because it 959 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:48,240 would be the worst episode ever. And like we've discussed today, 960 00:46:48,240 --> 00:46:50,560 don't send an e-mail to people that don't want to receive it. 961 00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:53,400 Don't record a podcast that's so bad no one wants to listen to 962 00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,000 it. That's my rule of thumb today. 963 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,120 Thanks for tuning in. We're back again next Friday and 964 00:46:57,120 --> 00:46:58,320 we hope you guys have an amazing week.