1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,200 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,640 This brand really came to life out of an actual like middle of 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,880 the night dream. Who has a dream and then starts 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,440 a business? Rock bottom's a different level 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,080 for everybody. It's very relative, but it's 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,000 when you're almost like, I have nothing else now. 7 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:17,800 Like I'm kind of done. I almost sort of look at it and 8 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,640 say, well actually you're a blank canvas now. 9 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:22,080 It all started to make sense to me and I got a deeper 10 00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,680 understanding of like who I was and where I came from. 11 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,600 What works for cheekbone is maybe not the systems that are 12 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:29,960 aligned in the beauty industry norm. 13 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,360 Maybe what works for us is this organic content. 14 00:00:32,360 --> 00:00:34,520 I was watching Harry Potter and my wife paused it and said, what 15 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:35,920 have you got so and so for Christmas? 16 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,560 And I said nothing. And they're like, what? 17 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,200 We're going to get them? And I looked at the screen and 18 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,040 saw a dragon. And I was like, obviously a Lego 19 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,240 dragon. Like, that's an easy one. 20 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,080 Hello, hello, and welcome to another episode Winning with 21 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Shopify Podcast. If you've never tuned in before, 22 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:53,800 my name's Nick and I've been hosting the show. 23 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,920 It's nearly 2026. I can't believe where the time's 24 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,120 gone. It still was like 2010 in my 25 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,520 head, but less said about that the better. 26 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:03,840 If you've tuning for the first time, please hit the subscribe 27 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:05,800 button and leave us a comment if there's commenting on the 28 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,960 platform that you're on. If you want to watch this and 29 00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:09,960 check out my funky new studio, every week we're changing 30 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:12,080 something in the studio. I should start a spot the 31 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,360 difference. So if you spot something 32 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:15,360 different, send me an e-mail hello@winningwishful.com. 33 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:17,760 Be like Nick, this has changed and if I like what you said 34 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,600 enough, I will send you. I haven't got one to hand. 35 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,400 I've seen you a limited edition because I only bought 10 winning 36 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:24,680 with Shopify mugs. We got a few in the office. 37 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,600 I'll send you a I'll send you a mug if if we like what you have 38 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,880 to say or what you've spotted. So yeah, send in anything that's 39 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:32,360 going on. Feel free to also ask us 40 00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:34,480 e-commerce questions. We are an e-commerce podcast. 41 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,280 I run a marketing agency just like that warm. 42 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:39,000 We spend millions of dollars and pounds every year on Google 43 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,200 advertising and SEO. Lots of other fun stuff as well. 44 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,600 I'm super excited for this week's episode because we've had 45 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,360 quite a few different people on the show recently and who we 46 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:48,520 unless things have gone in a different way, we're not. 47 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:51,280 I had a founder on for a little while, so I'm delighted to have 48 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:53,120 Jen from Cheekbone Beauty on the show. 49 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,880 So Jen, without further ado, welcome to the show. 50 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:56,280 How are you? I'm great. 51 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:57,840 Thank you so much for having me in. 52 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,520 It's wonderful to meet you. Amazing. 53 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:02,040 Well, it's so good to have you on the show, Jen. 54 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,320 And if people are listening, they're like a beauty brand. 55 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:05,800 Like, tell us a bit more about the business. 56 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:07,800 What do you guys sell? How did you get started? 57 00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,800 What's your background before? Before starting? 58 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,800 And then we'll dig in some tangents afterwards. 59 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,680 I know we're possibly rewinding the clock here, but tell us 60 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:18,000 everything. So I am technically like 11 61 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,480 years in from like ideation. This brand really came to life 62 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:26,640 out of an actual like middle of the night like dream. 63 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,640 When, when I say this to people, they always think it's a little 64 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:34,400 bit humorous because who has a dream and then starts a 65 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,880 business? So I am like, it's 2015. 66 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:41,680 I sell seafood for a living. My entire career I'd been in the 67 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,880 food space, but for the, the, the, the eight years before 68 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,440 getting into the, this business, I was a seafood sales Rep. 69 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:54,920 And then in that, after that dream, I woke up and I wrote 70 00:02:54,920 --> 00:02:59,240 down what I wanted to do. And first it was to figure out 71 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,800 how to make a lip gloss and then use a portion of the profits to 72 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,320 do something to support my Indigenous community. 73 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,440 At the time, I'd written start a scholarship fund in honor of my 74 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,240 grandmother, but to give you like a little bit. 75 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,160 And so the dream when people ask about it, like, what was it? 76 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:19,320 And all I remember is 3 like native little girls, SO3 77 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,520 Indigenous little girls, brown skin, rosy cheeks, giggling and 78 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,440 laughing. And then if I look at my life at 79 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,720 the time and what was going on in the world, this was when 80 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,480 Canada had finished this report called the Truth and 81 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,320 Reconciliation Commission report. 82 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,800 So it was this final report and it was all of this work done 83 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:42,880 over six years and it was just being like publicly announced 84 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:47,600 that, oh, wow, the systems, which I am 38 at the time when 85 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:51,400 this is happening, I had learned that both my grandparents went 86 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:52,840 to one of those kinds of schools. 87 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:56,400 And so unfortunately, when you're learning about that kind 88 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,440 of history, it all started to make sense to me and I got a 89 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,840 deeper understanding of like who I was and where I came from. 90 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,920 And honestly, many First Nations or Indigenous families here in 91 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,440 Canada, all of us had family members that had gone to these 92 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:11,760 schools. They're called residential. 93 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:13,960 And in the United States, they were called the boarding school 94 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,839 system, but nobody would talk about it. 95 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,360 And then as you learn and read these reports at that time or 96 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,240 you listen to stories of people that are survived those schools, 97 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,280 unfortunately, they weren't a wonderful experience. 98 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:31,720 And it created a lot of trauma. And, you know, they still in in 99 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,200 many ways impact our communities and our families today. 100 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,760 So I'm learning this and then Nick, the you know, the the 101 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,640 truth about my story was I myself had struggled with 102 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,040 alcoholism for many years. So I got sober November 26th, 103 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,520 2014. Congratulations. 104 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,680 Thank you. And yeah, this past year I 105 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:57,000 celebrated this past November, 11 years, but two months later 106 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:01,000 is when I have this dream. So like and what, and when I 107 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,600 describe it to people and I, when I look back now, I think, 108 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,440 wow, that is insane and crazy And why did no one stop you? 109 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,760 Because you knew nothing about the beauty industry. 110 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:14,880 Like again, I was selling fish to chefs and restaurateurs. 111 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,880 What the heck do I know about beauty? 112 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,960 But I woke up from that And I, I think that thing that happens to 113 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:27,840 many entrepreneurs is like, I just had this insatiable belief 114 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:29,800 that I could figure this out and do this. 115 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,480 And when I look back now, I think in many cases, was it my 116 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:35,760 sobriety? Was, was me overcoming 117 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,080 alcoholism 1 giving me clarity? Was it making me crazy to think 118 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,320 I could do this thing? Or did it give me this innate 119 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:46,080 belief in myself once again that something better is possible 120 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,080 and, and the world shifting as it was at that time? 121 00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:55,080 Like I think historically that year and that Commission in 122 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,800 those reports really changed our country, Canada, because for 123 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:02,160 many years, no one ever admitted to sort of the wrongs that was 124 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,160 committed in the name of colonization in in this 125 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,480 continent. And so I think just having that 126 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,680 admission come, you know, since then, many and all of those 127 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,720 things have just helped our people, Indigenous people on 128 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,000 this path to healing. And I think I was on my own 129 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:20,520 personal healing and journey and I'm actually in the process of 130 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,560 writing a book about it and in our brand story and really 131 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,880 talking about how this brand and business is help me heal. 132 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,000 So then have that dream. I'm now in the beauty space. 133 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:32,200 I'm learning everything I possibly can. 134 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,640 So never been an entrepreneur, only I've ever worked for people 135 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,360 and organizations. And in two years, I read over 136 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:44,920 100 books on business and, and, and being indigenous, I was 137 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,440 trying to learn more about that as well at the same time as 138 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:50,840 like, how do I build a business with that being our brand 139 00:06:50,840 --> 00:06:52,880 identity? Like I, when I talk about 140 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,080 cheekbone, I have always shared that we really, when I say 141 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:59,840 Indigenous roots, I wanted to go back to my ancestors of like 142 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,480 thousands of years of living in what pre not even called Canada 143 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,360 at the time. But this is how my family lived 144 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,800 and survived and thrived before all of that happened. 145 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,840 And the one thing that I know for certain is that indigenous 146 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:17,160 people have always been the keepers of land and cared about 147 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,120 this planet and all of the gifts that it provides. 148 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:23,160 And so how could we as businesses do a better job and, 149 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,600 and doing our part to take care of people on the planet? 150 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:29,800 And so I went back and that, you know, learning and research. 151 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:35,640 And finally in 2016, we then launched our e-commerce store. 152 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:38,600 So it was like a lot of learning up until that point, but like, 153 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,440 you name it, it was going every path of like, I don't know how 154 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,400 to write a business plan. I don't know what a financial, I 155 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,680 didn't know anything. I knew a little bit more about 156 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:51,160 marketing and I knew from my career in sales and seafood that 157 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,240 I really believed social media and every form of it was going 158 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:57,640 to be the future. Yeah, Yeah. 159 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:00,600 Thank you so much. I mean, just in terms of your 160 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:03,160 humility as well, just to share the the depth of that story. 161 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,760 And I mean, congratulations on some of the successes in it. 162 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,680 I, I think there's one of the things that's brought me to 163 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:10,920 which I'm going to go completely away from Shopify and e-commerce 164 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:12,200 for a SEC. We'll come back in a minute 165 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,200 everyone. So track with us. 166 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:16,080 I'm learning with the American phrases and Canadian phrases as 167 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:17,920 well, like tracking with us. I didn't know what that meant 168 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,720 till I watched the NFL and I thought, Oh yeah, that makes 169 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,280 sense. I started using it before I knew 170 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:25,680 what it meant and but I think like I read so many books as 171 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:27,280 well. I've been reading a lot of audio 172 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,440 books. I listen to podcasts. 173 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,800 I mostly do listening because I'm very I was joking with Jen 174 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,799 that Jen was trying to get her tech working and while she was 175 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,120 trying to get her tech working to get in this, I've reorganized 176 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,760 this desk and changed the lighting and other stuff. 177 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:41,400 So if you haven't emailed me and you say any of that, then you 178 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,799 don't win the competition. I mentioned earlier. 179 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:45,280 This episode of winning shop fight is brought to you by tax 180 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,000 cloud. It's the busiest time of year 181 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,200 for e-commerce. Your stores buzzing, orders 182 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:50,760 flying in and growth is at an all time high. 183 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,920 But with all that momentum can come new sales tax exposure that 184 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,920 you might not even see coming. That's why now is the perfect 185 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:59,160 time to take a closer look at how you're handling sales tax 186 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,280 and make sure your business is set up for the growth that 187 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,160 you've earned. Tax Cloud is our trusted partner 188 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,960 for sales tax compliance. Built for growing Shopify 189 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:08,080 brands. They handle regulations, filings 190 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,200 and ongoing compliance working directly with the states on your 191 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,440 behalf across the US so you can stay focused on running your 192 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:15,800 store. They've got a five star rating 193 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,200 in the Shopify App Store and listeners winning the Shopify 194 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,880 get free migration on boarding when you make the switch. 195 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:23,960 To apply for that and learn more, you can go to taxcloud.com 196 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,720 forward slash winning, that's tax cloud.com/winning. 197 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:30,680 And but I think some of the, so many, so many of the things I 198 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:33,000 read the, the stories of some of the most successful businesses, 199 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,200 most successful people. And obviously success is a 200 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,320 measure in itself. Everyone's got the measure of 201 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:38,920 that. But actually the success comes 202 00:09:38,920 --> 00:09:41,280 from when people hit what I describe as rock bottom. 203 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,640 And it's like actually rock bottom is a different level for 204 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:44,880 everybody. It's very relative. 205 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,400 But it's when you're almost like, I have nothing else now, 206 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,480 like I'm kind of done. And because I'm done, I always, 207 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:52,120 I almost sort of look at it and say, well, actually you're a 208 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,280 blank canvas Now you've kind of got rid of all the other stuff 209 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,120 because you, you know, you, you become so humble because you're 210 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,240 like, I'm, I basically, I'm rubbish at everything. 211 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Everything I've done has failed. Everything I've known has been 212 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,120 ripped up underneath me or whatever situation you're in. 213 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,080 And suddenly it's like you're actually a blank canvas. 214 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,440 Like go and dream. You know, I mean, you, you 215 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,680 actually had a, a physical dream like at sleep one night, but go 216 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:12,800 and dream. What do you want to do next? 217 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,240 You know what is actually next for you and I find bringing it 218 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,960 back to e-commerce and how that I think relates actually to 219 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,920 what's happening. And you know this, I think this 220 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:23,320 is probably going to be the last episode we're posting this year. 221 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,080 There'll be 1 special 1 next week and I'm wearing an outfit, 222 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:27,680 but it won't be an interview. It'll be one of the Tuesday 223 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,800 ones. And guess what outfit I'll be 224 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:31,440 wearing? It's going to be itchy. 225 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,680 I keep telling everyone, but the I think the interesting thing 226 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:36,520 with Shopify brands is Shopify's made it so easy to go like 227 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,120 right, new account name, e-mail, bang. 228 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,400 I've got an e-commerce store. No one's bought from me yet, but 229 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,720 I've got an e-commerce store and it's like the power suddenly the 230 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,400 people have of going like, do you know what? 231 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,640 I don't have to work for the I know, I know across the pond, a 232 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:51,160 lot of people call it with the man. 233 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,560 I don't have to work for the man anymore. 234 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,480 And you know, I can go and be my own boss and do my own thing. 235 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,280 Of course, there are some people that get sold this dream and get 236 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,080 kind of get sucked into it and it doesn't work out and money 237 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:03,240 gets lost and everything else. But there are so many businesses 238 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,680 that have come along like yourself, where when I first 239 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:07,880 just kind of heard the name Cheekbone Beauty, I was like, 240 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,080 cool, we're talking to a beauty brand. 241 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,880 Let's find out. But hearing your story, my first 242 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,880 question really, and I want to hear more about the roots in a 243 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:15,320 second of like the early days and everything. 244 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:19,160 But with everything you've just said, how do you bring that 245 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,480 across? And I ask a lot of guests this 246 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,080 and I get a whole multitude of answers. 247 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:26,280 How do you bring a lot of that across your backgrounds, your 248 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,120 ancestors, the dream you had, what you're trying to achieve of 249 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,960 the business, the giving back? How do you bring that across to 250 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:33,760 your customer base? How do you bring that across in 251 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:35,920 marketing? And I know it's not easy because 252 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,080 there's only so many pixels on screens and thanks to Apple and 253 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,600 and Android launching I iPhones and everything else, we have 254 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:44,920 less pixels on screen, so smaller screen. 255 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:46,480 How do you bring that across to your customer base? 256 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,040 That is a great question and I feel like we still don't know 257 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:53,680 for sure. The only thing I know for 258 00:11:53,680 --> 00:11:57,440 certain is I just try to tell the story like I literally am 259 00:11:57,440 --> 00:12:02,280 like whether it be the brand story, my personal story or our 260 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,600 product story, which we have. We like, we haven't even touched 261 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:06,720 on products yet, right, because you always assume. 262 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:09,720 Yeah, we'll get. That my career prior was a 263 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:12,600 salesperson and you're technically trying to always 264 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,840 give them that, you know, the, the like, how is this going to 265 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,760 make their life better or those features, advantages and 266 00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:20,520 benefits that we always used to pursue. 267 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:24,560 And in the beginning I made the mistake of like trying to follow 268 00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:26,800 that path. Like with cheekbone, I would be 269 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,160 like, no, we got to tell them exactly what it's going to do 270 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:30,960 and how it's going to solve their problem. 271 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,360 And yet in a way, we still have to do that. 272 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,560 But I've learned over the years that I think people really love 273 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:39,560 a story and to get to that, how it's going to help them. 274 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:41,400 But they definitely want the story. 275 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,240 And I feel very connected to storytelling. 276 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,920 I recognize that culturally, it's something that if you know 277 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,360 what Native American, Native Canadian people have been 278 00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:57,280 notoriously popular for over generations is we have told our 279 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:01,480 stories and always orally that like you can, it is very hard. 280 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,280 Now in 2025, yeah, there's a lot more books written about, but 281 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,440 all of our teachings, whether no matter what tribe or nation we 282 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,720 come from, in the United States, they use more of the word tribe. 283 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,240 In Canada, we use the word nation. 284 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,920 So I am from the Ojibwa away nation, which is a group of 285 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:19,200 people. They were technically sort of 286 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:24,120 all around, maybe the Great Lake area, but again, sometimes 287 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,120 nomadic in many ways. But this is where we reside now. 288 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,200 And the stories from my culture, which we call ourselves the 289 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,280 Anishnabe people and I'm from again, the Ojibwe nation, 290 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,560 something in the sense that like, how do you define success? 291 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,880 And our then our community and our people, we have stories 292 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,880 about that would be shared and passed down. 293 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,680 We have one that we've included into the brand called the seven 294 00:13:48,680 --> 00:13:50,760 generations teaching. And I'm sharing this one because 295 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:53,640 I know it's more popular and a lot of even non indigenous 296 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:55,120 brands use this in their marketing. 297 00:13:55,120 --> 00:14:01,280 But the idea of what we do today and how it won't only impact the 298 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,120 next generation, but the next 7. So we have to think more 299 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,800 thoughtfully about the resources we take from the land and what 300 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,640 are we giving back to the land? And all of these things were 301 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,200 stories and teaching that have passed bound. 302 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,680 So the one thing I it's AI always say our our brand story, 303 00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,280 it's big, there's a lot of pieces and facets of it. 304 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:21,240 But if we just continue down this path of trying to tell and 305 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:25,160 share those stories, I know that that's how we connect with a lot 306 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,840 of our community. And when I say that, I hear our 307 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,920 customers right. I love that. 308 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:32,720 And again, thank you so much for sharing that. 309 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:35,960 And one thing I love, I, I studied at school quite a lot 310 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,920 into Native Americans. I think it was more central and 311 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,800 South, like Aztecs and the Incas and things like that. 312 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,880 And it's fascinating. And the amount of things that 313 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,480 were going on that like someone 100 or 200 years ago was like, 314 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:48,040 I've invented this. It's like, no, you didn't. 315 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,080 We've found sketchings now on a cave somewhere actually in South 316 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:53,960 America that suggests otherwise. And it's I find it fascinating. 317 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,520 And so it's almost like that ecosystem is like, I'd almost 318 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,400 say it's almost like carbon offsetting And how funny that 319 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,320 like ancient tribes and nations were talking about exactly the 320 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,080 same thing. I find it fascinating. 321 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:06,920 And I guess, I guess the question I really want to ask 322 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:10,680 then is you mentioned products. What are your products and I 323 00:15:10,680 --> 00:15:13,040 guess the products themselves, it's gonna, I know it's gonna be 324 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:14,200 beauty relate. Well, I assume it's gonna be 325 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:15,880 beauty relatedness. It's not because of the name 326 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,720 you've mentioned. But the other question I really 327 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:19,840 want to ask is given everything you've mentioned about the 328 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:21,840 history, what you're trying to do with, with the brand and the 329 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,560 business and giving back and, and your ancestry and, and 330 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,000 things like that, how did you choose the product range is 331 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:28,560 really the question. I want to know so you can tell 332 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,520 us what it is, but how did you come up with that product range 333 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:32,400 based on all those other factors? 334 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:35,360 Yeah, it was. You know, I've I've said this 335 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,560 many times recently in particular, if I knew what I 336 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,200 knew now back then, I probably would have started in skin care, 337 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,280 not color. So we're in the category that 338 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:50,240 people call color cosmetics. So anything for lips, eyes and 339 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:55,520 face, lipsticks, glosses, oils, balms, faces, complexion 340 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,200 products, whether that's we call ours a unified pencil, which 341 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,800 really does foundation concealing and contouring all in 342 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:04,680 one. We'd make everything with this 343 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:07,840 whole concept of like it should be multi purpose and multi use, 344 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:11,120 but that's a more part of the brand story is that idea of 345 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:14,440 being more sustainable. And then of course, blush, 346 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:18,000 eyeshadow, eyeliner, mascara. So all of the things in the 347 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,000 color makeup category. Here's the facts. 348 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:25,480 And what I know now is that color is such an expensive brand 349 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,600 to start in the sense that skew line, you need multiple shades, 350 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,440 especially if you're going to touch complexion. 351 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,560 Because you can imagine. I mean, there's 8 billion. 352 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:36,800 Yeah. Yeah, more than 8 billion. 353 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:38,840 So shade range is always an issue. 354 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,640 Color lips. Like so you need such a wide. 355 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:42,680 Range like there's so many order for you is we need. 356 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,000 To order so many like maybe small volumes initially but load 357 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,680 a wide range of. Skews and then when you when 358 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:49,960 you're growing and you want to work with better partners 359 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:53,320 because we're talking people that have much higher Moqs and 360 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:57,520 so it's very expensive and So what I know now I would have 361 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:02,040 definitely started in the skin care space just because I could 362 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:06,280 have launched 3 SKUs versus the 75 that we carry now Yeah, 363 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,760 exactly. And so, but it that's all about 364 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,040 learning and, and then I've also recognized, oh, wow, OK. 365 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,800 You know, as and as I've gone on the journey, Nick, it's really 366 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,560 interesting. I started the brand out very 367 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:20,800 differently than where we are now. 368 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:24,720 I didn't know anything about this space since founding it. 369 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,080 We moved from buying from other manufacturers to actually us 370 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,960 learning how to formulate our own formulations in our own lab 371 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,280 that we built at our headquarters and hired chemists 372 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,280 and other scientists to work with to actually figure out and 373 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,920 what I want to, to learn, which is not the normal way either 374 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,720 that people watch beauty usually I, I just really wanted to learn 375 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,800 how everything was made and I wanted to understand why did we 376 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,960 have to use this ingredient and is there another option? 377 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:56,000 And a lot of times if you're working with a contract 378 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,400 manufacturer, they're going to tell you, no, there isn't 379 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,200 another option And they're going to think they're going to try to 380 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,160 explain to you why. However, I want to prove it to 381 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,120 myself. I want to try to make that 382 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:09,000 lipstick and I want to use that more naturally derived 383 00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:11,160 ingredient. And if it doesn't work, I wanted 384 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,800 to know why. But what we've learned is that 385 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,520 we man our own formulations with more naturally derived 386 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:20,360 ingredients that are more biodegradable and that they can 387 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:23,680 work and they do work very well. And whatever the contract 388 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,640 manufacturers were telling us, we're in fact them just wanting 389 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:30,280 to regurgitate the same lipstick that every other makeup brand is 390 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:33,680 putting into the market. But I was completely went 391 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:35,600 against the path and said no, we're going to figure out these 392 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,520 things on our own. So with with our lab, we've now 393 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,880 made color, but I'm sure we're moving into the skin care 394 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,440 category because we have learned how to make formulas and what 395 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:45,920 can be better for us and the planet. 396 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,440 And are you, if you don't mind me, just interrupting for a say, 397 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,320 are you the face of the brand as well then? 398 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,480 Are you the main person that does the social channels and 399 00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:56,360 talks to customers? Sadly and say sadly, I mean, but 400 00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,040 I think what you've done is exactly the right thing. 401 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,000 So actually it's not sadly, I think it's perfect that you're 402 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,120 the right person to do it because you understand the 403 00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,040 products enough. I mean, comparatively, I have it 404 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,200 here with the agency where my team are like, Nick, do you, why 405 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:08,560 do you want to come to this client call? 406 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:09,800 You know, they don't spend much. There's more. 407 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,080 I'm like, I do all the pitching, I do the podcast, I do all the 408 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,080 events that we do. I come up with what our branding 409 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:16,280 is. I decide which case studies end 410 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,360 up on the website. I decide how to, how do we put a 411 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:19,960 proposal and plan together for somebody. 412 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,160 So if I don't know what's working, how on earth can I do 413 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,000 all the other things? And it it's exactly the same for 414 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,000 you. And I think that there are some 415 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,520 founders I talked to like, yeah, I've got 7 or 8 e-commerce 416 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,080 stores and it's like, it's fine. But as long as you're not the 417 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,680 face of any of them, unless you do have a proper vested 418 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,120 interest, I think to know what's going on because otherwise, how 419 00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:37,400 do you make marketing decisions? How do you jump on TikTok and 420 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,240 have a video conversation slightly one way, but telling 421 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,560 customers about what's going on? You can't really do that if you 422 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,880 don't really know the skews and the best products and things 423 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:48,640 because people must buy into you and customers must buy into 424 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,160 like, oh, I saw Jen was doing this. 425 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:51,880 Do you ever find that in your warehouse? 426 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,120 You have dead stock. You can't sell it, no one wants 427 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:55,600 to buy it and you can't get a refund on it. 428 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,920 Or alternatively, you're missing inventory in your warehouse that 429 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,080 you need, you've got sales coming in and you're low on 430 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,800 stock and you haven't ordered more stock in time. 431 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,840 All these things hit profit. And I've been there. 432 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,440 I've run my own Shopify store and had exactly that problem. 433 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,600 But we've partnered up with Inventory Planner, who have the 434 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,200 most incredible app to help you manage that and forecast exactly 435 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,520 what products, what skews even down to what colour of products 436 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,600 you need to order in advance to make sure stock levels remain 437 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,280 consistent throughout. They're also running a seven day 438 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:25,440 boot camp and if you want to go and sign up to that, it's 7 439 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,160 emails every seven days and it takes the same amount of time as 440 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,760 your morning coffee. And in seven days, like me, you 441 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:32,560 can become an inventory management pro. 442 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,640 Both links are in the description. 443 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,440 Enjoy. You must get customer service 444 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,560 emails saying I saw Jen put something over here like what is 445 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,600 that product? How do I get it? 446 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,640 When's it coming out? Yeah, one of our favorite tools 447 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:47,560 and you know, having it, it is timing is everything. 448 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,280 When I think back and when you just think about Shopify, like 449 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,120 if that didn't exist, this wouldn't, I couldn't even, I 450 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:54,720 wouldn't have never been able to do this. 451 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,320 But then the tool we have at our checkout is we constantly ask 452 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,040 people where they found out about the brand. 453 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,360 So every week it could be from Jen talking on social media to a 454 00:21:04,360 --> 00:21:09,440 news article to to ATV segment that we were on or something 455 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,720 like that. So we just want to know exactly 456 00:21:11,720 --> 00:21:15,960 where people are finding us. And so we and that tool into the 457 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,160 checkout, right? That's cool. 458 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,560 Do you I, I have this problem at the moment. 459 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,720 So we, we've gone so data heavy in our agency. 460 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,920 It's like if you can't prove it with data, it goes in the like 461 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,160 10% bucket of like we're going to try this and see what 462 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:28,840 happens. The 90% has to be like we've 463 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:30,640 seen this in the data set says we should do this and that's 464 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,560 going to grow revenue. And the reason I love that 465 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:34,880 approach is it leads to the question, The first question, I 466 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:36,720 thought when you said we asked people how they found us. 467 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,360 And I sort of thought, you probably know that on GA 4 468 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:40,800 because you can see the sources and things. 469 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,240 But I think what's interesting, and I haven't done this for a 470 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,400 brand, I think I might need to do this in an ear now, now that 471 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,560 you've mentioned it, now you mentioned I thought of it, it'd 472 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,080 be amazing to overlay what the customer said versus GA 4. 473 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,120 Because if they say, oh, I saw Jen on TikTok, for example, or 474 00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:58,640 on an Instagram video and then you go, but hang on a minute, 475 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,400 You clicked on one of our paid ads. 476 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:03,080 But what paid ad was it? What keyword did you use? 477 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,160 Oh, you searched our brand and clicked on a paid ad. 478 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,160 So we've paid for you to click on our own brand when we didn't 479 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,800 really need to. No one competes with us. 480 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,720 Do you see the equation of like we're wasting money anyway? 481 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,000 That's what we discovered is like people, whether whatever 482 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,520 we're learning from Google is not necessarily the actual facts 483 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,600 or part of the story is literally no. 484 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,720 It took this one community member 20 touch points till they 485 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,160 actually converted, but it was all part of the system. 486 00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,520 And we've learned that because that's asking them actually is. 487 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,240 And honestly, I am blown away because I I never do this. 488 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:40,640 I never even respond to a survey. 489 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:42,880 I don't know what customer who does this. 490 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,200 And I'm grateful because we get so much feedback from them. 491 00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:48,880 But they will give a whole story as to like I was watching this 492 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,480 show and then yeah, so we get a lot of information by just. 493 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,240 Asking yeah, yeah, yeah. I filled one out the other day 494 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:55,160 and I said, how did you find this? 495 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,440 I said, I was watching Harry Potter and my wife paused it and 496 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,520 said, what have you got so and so for Christmas? 497 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:01,600 And I said nothing. And they're like, what are we 498 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,120 going to get them? And I looked at the screen and 499 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,880 saw a dragon and I was like, obviously a Lego dragon. 500 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:09,240 Like that's an easy one. And it's like, right, Lego 501 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,960 dragon. I just bought a dragon from, I 502 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,200 think it was Amazon. It's like next day delivery, 503 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,320 like right, wrap that, let's go. So that was resources. 504 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:19,560 Let's talk about some of the challenges then from a business 505 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,640 perspective. So you've given us incredible 506 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,680 background to how you started it, what you sell, who you guys 507 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,000 are, what you stand for. What have been some of the 508 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,640 challenges you guys have faced then with growth? 509 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,840 Like we always have, dark days in business. 510 00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:33,680 I can vouch for that. I've had more than I'd like to 511 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,200 watch. So we're talking 11 years and 512 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,280 for honestly the first, like if I'm being very transparent and 513 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:46,760 truthful, I would say for seven of these years, I really didn't 514 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,440 know what I was doing in so many factors of the business. 515 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,200 I feel like I'm like, well, no, I and I don't. 516 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,720 There's a lot still to learn, but I finally, it's this past 517 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,240 year, it's our first year being profitable. 518 00:23:58,600 --> 00:23:59,800 It's the first. Congratulations. 519 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:04,000 Thank you. Last year we were $700,000 in 520 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,400 the red. So to turn the company around 521 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,280 and finally, it's been, there's been a lot of disasters and that 522 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:15,640 was a calculated risk, though, like even last year we went 523 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,440 heavy and we're like, we're going to pay big influencer and 524 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,120 see what happens. We're going to do this licensing 525 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:22,680 collaboration and see what happens. 526 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,600 We're going to work with this big agency. 527 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,280 We're going to hire a sales team to grow our Sephora business in 528 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,840 Canada. And it all freaking failed or 529 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,320 everyone lied to us and didn't do and say what they're going to 530 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:36,160 do. And influencers, big influencers 531 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,480 don't necessarily work for small brands. 532 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:42,240 And that I had to to learn that. And at least now I have the data 533 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,360 to say no. What works for Cheekbone is 534 00:24:45,360 --> 00:24:48,760 maybe not the systems that are aligned in the beauty industry 535 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:50,920 norm. Maybe what works for us is this 536 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:55,560 organic content is us being transparent about formulations 537 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,560 and product and how it works and and those sorts of things. 538 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,640 So just learning, even though those were big failures. 539 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,680 And then I focused for the last two years on two of the buckets 540 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,640 of really important buckets of business that I was never very 541 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,120 comfortable with, which is finance and OPS and we now have 542 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:14,720 built like when you're. In the Boring. 543 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,560 Stuff, Oh my goodness. But when you're a CPG business 544 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:25,280 that literally has to know, like I meet founders and I, my heart 545 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:27,880 aches for them because they don't get it yet or they don't 546 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,800 want to and then the business will not succeed. 547 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,560 And I want to tell them that. And it's so hard that if you I 548 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,840 know exactly how many AKI, which is our best selling red 549 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:40,640 lipstick, we have to order and sell in the month it's 550 00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:44,760 forecasted and we will and, and then be sitting on that perfect 551 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:48,560 level so that we still have enough to give if it like, it's 552 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,040 just such a big important piece of the business is understanding 553 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,400 the operations portion and as understanding your cash flow on 554 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:59,120 a weekly basis. Sometimes when you're in tough 555 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:01,360 points, right, of like what you can and cannot do. 556 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,400 But I learned, I took the last two years to like really teach 557 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,880 myself and make sure my team knew exactly what we're in. 558 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,240 We're super small team, like we're only 6 full time 559 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,920 employees. The rest is all contracts sort 560 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,720 of and subcontract work that supports us. 561 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:22,080 But this internal team like we are super functional and like 562 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:24,760 just have hustled to get to where where we are, but had to 563 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:28,600 learn the hard things and had to learn it like from the ground up 564 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:32,480 with not and originally I and there's so many schools of 565 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,600 thought out there because people are like, well, hire for the 566 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,680 things you don't know. I did that and it didn't work 567 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,840 either. Right, like I was counting on. 568 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,520 But here's why I disagree. With that statement, I know a 569 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,920 lot of people say hire the stuff you don't know or bring in 570 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,880 expertise where you don't know. What I've started doing is 571 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,720 finding the like individual, one person, like band sort of thing. 572 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,360 Say like, right, you're a contractor, you're a freelancer. 573 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:58,680 I don't like I'd say 10 years ago I was looking at my accounts 574 00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:01,200 going, I'm working really hard, revenue's good. 575 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,280 I don't, I couldn't tell you how much profit we've got. 576 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:06,240 So I sat down with a freelance accountant and said, look, I 577 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:08,240 don't need an accountant. Can I pay you for like a day or 578 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,000 two of your time? Can you explain what EBITDA 579 00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:12,040 means? Can you explain what, what are 580 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,760 the advantages I could take of VAT? 581 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,360 What can I and can't I expense? How does the HMRC system work? 582 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,120 Like HMRC is where we pay our tax. 583 00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,560 Like is it Inland Revenue in the USI don't know what Canada have, 584 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,680 but so yeah. So I sat down and learnt all 585 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,280 those things. My philosophy is the opposite of 586 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,280 hire people to do things you don't know how to do. 587 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,880 My philosophy is starting yourself, get it working well 588 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,160 and then hire someone to expand it. 589 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,400 Because the conversation I can have with anyone in my team, and 590 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,120 I think I mean, yeah, we so we hire a lot of junior people here 591 00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:44,680 and train them. So we hire them based on their, 592 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,160 their culture, their personality, their drive. 593 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:49,560 They're they're, they're not too ambitious to the right level of 594 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,920 ambitious for us. We ask questions in interviews 595 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,480 of things like, are you aware of your limitations, your failures? 596 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,000 When you know, when you're kind of in your depth, out of your 597 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,320 depth. And if we get anything but an 598 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,000 answer, that's like, OK, we do trust them. 599 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,080 That sounds legitimate. It's like you're a junior. 600 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,480 We're hiring someone without experience day one, you're out 601 00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,080 of your depth, you're beyond your limits. 602 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:09,360 You're going to fail at everything. 603 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,840 But that's part of this. So if that's not your culture, 604 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,440 don't come here. Like, and we don't want you to 605 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:15,480 come here because it's it's going to be horrible. 606 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,640 We've made that mistake. I love that I say that as well. 607 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,680 It's like, this is a horrible job, but yeah, here's all the 608 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,000 things that and if you love that world, then please come join us. 609 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,600 One of one of my team, I have one to ones on my team every two 610 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:31,760 or three months and I was still in the end of year ones over the 611 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:33,320 last couple of weeks. And one of my teams said to me, 612 00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,040 like, how would you not want to work here? 613 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:37,320 And I said, well, there's people with personalities that they 614 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:39,720 like shouting. They like, let's just do stuff 615 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,880 at the deadline. They get a real driving kick out 616 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:44,280 of that. I don't it's my business, so I'm 617 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:46,240 hiring A-Team. I only hire a team of people 618 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,080 that I like working with because otherwise it's all going to fall 619 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,880 apart. Like, if I don't like it, you're 620 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,080 all stuffed. Like, and it's, I think I've had 621 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:56,440 to learn to be selfish to then help people by hiring them, 622 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,640 training them, giving them a career and giving them a chance 623 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:00,600 to give the right person a chance to go and do stuff. 624 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:01,640 I feel like I. Think. 625 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:04,760 Talk about this. Stuff for hours just because I 626 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,880 like. So when you said that, I learned 627 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,400 I didn't ask these so-called experts that I hired the right 628 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,960 questions because I didn't know what to ask them. 629 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,560 I was just expecting them to understand. 630 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,920 And it turned out to be epic failures in most of the cases, 631 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,600 right? So we to let everyone into a 632 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,960 little secret. I know there's agencies that 633 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,560 listen to this as well, so please don't steal this too 634 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,640 much. The last three pitches we've 635 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,800 won, we haven't write written a slide deck. 636 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:32,920 We've not written a proposal, which is what an agency normally 637 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:34,160 does. You come in and say, Hey, look 638 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,120 how amazing the world, which is probably what you had, like look 639 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,880 how amazing the world's going to be and you're like, great sign 640 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,480 off, let's go. We most of our PPC proposals now 641 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,840 are just a spreadsheet. And it's just that we don't even 642 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,680 talk about the ad copy and we agree the process and stuff with 643 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200 the client like in the first couple of weeks when we start, 644 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,440 because that that's all stuff that we can change. 645 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:54,080 The thing that we need to work out is like, right, how much you 646 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:55,920 spending, how much you making? What are the economics? 647 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,840 And when you talk about the numbers as well, and I want to 648 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:00,960 say thank you as well. Thank you for being so honest 649 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:03,000 about it. Making a 750K loss last year 650 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:04,720 compared to this year, you're now in profit. 651 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,680 I think, you know, I think it's amazing part of the journey. 652 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,960 And if anyone's seen that or something similar in the title 653 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,120 of this episode, don't be surprised like I've written it 654 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:15,080 down and gone this incredible. I think with the economics, like 655 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,240 we, we sit with brands and we ask, you'd be amazed, some of 656 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,760 the big kind of global corporations we work with down 657 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,000 to like some small but very quickly scaling Shopify stores. 658 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,320 And we asked them like, what's your best selling product and 659 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,120 then where do people land on your site to buy that product? 660 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:30,880 It's like, well, we don't know. And it's like, fine, you're 661 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,480 going to hire us to look at that. 662 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:35,600 And actually, when we normally try to like optimize a whole 663 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,680 site or do marketing for a whole business, we're going to apply 664 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,720 the 8020 rule and go, we're going to spend 80% of our time 665 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:44,640 on 20% of the pie. But it's 20% of the pie that 666 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,760 makes when we come back to where we started, the 80% of your 667 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:49,960 revenue. And I think it's looking at the 668 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,160 economics and things like that. It's so important. 669 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:54,440 I, I've been calling it economics more and more over the 670 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,200 last sort of six months. And we're certainly doubling 671 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,480 down on that next year of our clients saying, let's just 672 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,960 let's, let's pull the layers off the onion for a second and go, 673 00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,120 where is your revenue actually coming from? 674 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,320 What are people actually buying? Why are they buying it? 675 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,280 And then let's do more of that. The amount of brands that said, 676 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,160 we've got a new range. And then we like, we launched a 677 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,760 new brand on our store and we're like, why? 678 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,120 And they're like, because we could, because we could get hold 679 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:15,240 of it. It's like that's your, I mean, 680 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:16,760 you mentioned business, business plans earlier. 681 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,000 I'm done with business plans like just, it's talk to your 682 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,240 customer and go like we, we talk to our clients and say, what's 683 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,600 the biggest thing you need from us this year? 684 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,640 And they'll say, as an organization, we're only like 3% 685 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,000 profitable and we need to get to 5. 686 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,280 And we say, right, we can make like a 6% profitability increase 687 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,000 this year, which will massively, you know, we drive 50% of all 688 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,080 your revenue on Google Ads. We could massively help you turn 689 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:41,240 that ship pretty quickly and that's actually an easier brief 690 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,080 than what we were probably trying to achieve in the 1st 691 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:44,680 place. But that's the company goal and 692 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,440 we can overhit that pretty quick. 693 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,760 How do you guys approach like I know, I know last year to this 694 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,280 year was probably quite easy, but how do you guys approach 695 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,720 like KPIs, metrics, what do you measure? 696 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:57,480 Like what's what the success? What do you look at in the 697 00:31:57,480 --> 00:31:59,800 morning when you get up that makes you happy and not happy in 698 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,040 the data that you're looking at on a daily basis? 699 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,880 Yeah. And that has changed 700 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:09,720 dramatically over these last like 9 years of selling first. 701 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:18,200 Yeah, so I have worked so even our our HR company is contract 702 00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,680 and one of the main jobs, you know, we've worked with them for 703 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:23,400 quite a few years, always very happy. 704 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,600 And I was like while we were going through this whole new 705 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,200 building OPS process, there was a lot of things happening in the 706 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,880 background and it really did change people's job 707 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,480 descriptions. And So what we did is now in 708 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:38,640 each job description, we built KPIs based on the six people 709 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,080 that work for me and have to do a lot of things. 710 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,200 Now there's like 5610K PIS surrounding each of them that 711 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,920 they're responsible for. And we've embedded that now even 712 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,760 into the job description. So I'm completely drawing a 713 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:57,440 blank here, but whether it's your wholesale manager and also 714 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,680 acts as my EA, which is Melanie. So if she's the wholesale 715 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,480 manager, that means she's responsible for all small 716 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,240 independent business that we bring on. 717 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,600 So boutiques that would be selling cheekbone and we want to 718 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,600 bring on at least five a month and that has to add up to a 719 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,280 certain amount of revenue each year. 720 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:19,520 And obviously her KPIs are going to surround that, whether it's 721 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:26,000 from how many cold calls she's making based on how many, like 722 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,880 following the 8020 rules. So she's got to make 100 cold 723 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,760 calls a week and transfer that into five accounts that actually 724 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,280 on board within the month kind of thing. 725 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,120 And then that's the sales funnel process. 726 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,560 But then her KP is on her job description are all based on 727 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,400 that. And so we do that for every 728 00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,400 individual now within the organization, which is like game 729 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:50,480 changing, right? And then I have a CEO dashboard 730 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,520 that they take all of the insights and have to put that 731 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,800 information in every Monday for our in our team meeting that 732 00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:59,960 happens every Tuesday. Yeah, yeah, we, we've got some 733 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,520 clients now. We, we've used Google, look, a 734 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,120 studio and a couple of alternatives where we basically 735 00:34:04,280 --> 00:34:06,000 people like, oh, sorry, I'm never available on Monday 736 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:07,520 morning. And sometimes we're like, it's 737 00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,120 been an interesting weekend. Sometimes it's been a hard 738 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,199 weekend, a good weekend. And we e-mail clients like by 739 00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,480 9:00 AM Monday, like we're emailing clients saying, have 740 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,480 you seen, you know, I'm assuming you've seen the stats this 741 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:17,360 weekend. I'm already changing budgets 742 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,480 according accordingly or pivoting to, to this because 743 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,000 that range for some reason has exploded over the weekend. 744 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,400 Yeah, we don't hear from them. And then when we eventually 745 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,239 after a few months of getting to know the client or a couple of 746 00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,120 years and we say, what are you doing on a Monday? 747 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,280 Like we send you these emails being like, guess what? 748 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,120 And there's like, just dead. And then you. 749 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,520 Know first thing Tuesday oh sorry, I guess great thanks for 750 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:36,840 doing that. Or like, oh please don't put the 751 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:38,040 budget up. And it's like yeah, we spent 752 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,719 quite a bit yes. I mean we've have caps. 753 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,480 We have like we won't go over that without permission. 754 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,080 And but we started creating these dashboards because they 755 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:45,840 were like, we're just putting all this information into a 756 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:48,120 trading meeting. And it's like we got half a day 757 00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,159 back. And then we slightly jokingly, 758 00:34:50,159 --> 00:34:53,080 but slightly say to the client, can you spend that half day then 759 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,000 like approving content we need from you? 760 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,840 Or can you get this for us that we need or can you get this sign 761 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:00,400 off over here so we can start that campaign, like trying to 762 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,320 utilise that that free time we've got back to them. 763 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,720 But I mean, a lot of organizations, it used to be 764 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:07,400 like, yeah, Monday was just kind of trading meetings for 765 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,040 everybody across all clients. And it was like Monday was like 766 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:11,440 a ghost town at the agency world. 767 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,080 And it was like, this is bizarre. 768 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,560 Like we have the Internet is they're not graphs. 769 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,200 I think your dash is fantastic to have. 770 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,840 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Something like that. 771 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,480 And let's let's come in to land on this last point then. 772 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,760 And you mentioned right at the start, you mentioned it. 773 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:25,920 I've written it down because I love this. 774 00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,760 You said, you said about if, if I could go back and say some 775 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,080 things to myself when I started, like what would I say? 776 00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,720 I want to rephrase that as a question very slightly to say 777 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,000 hearing, hearing your story is probably going to inspire some 778 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,080 people. And there's definitely going to 779 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,080 be people listening to this who are on that kind of journey. 780 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,200 What advice would you give to these guys who are thinking of 781 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:46,000 starting out? They've just started out like, 782 00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,080 yeah, what would you say? Oh, wow. 783 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,960 So like, there's so many things, but I think the most important, 784 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,280 yeah, the one area which is so ridiculous, how am I in a? 785 00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:03,160 So if you're in food or beauty, it, it is not like a tech 786 00:36:03,160 --> 00:36:05,960 business. You can't just toss out your MVP 787 00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,840 and expect that iterations can happen. 788 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,840 If I tasted something and it tastes like garbage, that is I'm 789 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:15,280 never going back. The brand like it's gone, it's 790 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,320 done. If you've used a beauty product 791 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:22,280 and it doesn't work, it's done. So we're in a category where my 792 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,880 product had to be at. It's sort of that product 793 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:29,320 market, never mind fit, love phase right off the hop. 794 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,680 And that's the biggest mistake I made is that I went and I 795 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,960 entered this industry really unknowledgeable and didn't 796 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,280 understand product and how important it was. 797 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:43,040 And so, and my, my issue was I was actually reading a lot of 798 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,280 tech based books that said, just throw out what you have. 799 00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:51,440 And then this is like a catch. This is like like a catch 22 800 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,120 because I obviously I didn't even have a choice though I had 801 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,160 no money. I didn't like when I said I 802 00:36:57,160 --> 00:37:01,480 started with $500 that I, it wasn't like I could go and spend 803 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,800 10,100 thousand on building the perfect product either. 804 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,760 So my story is I had to start the way I did. 805 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,640 But if I had a choice, maybe I and I just, I just know even if 806 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,440 I went to go look for investors, no one was ever going to give me 807 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,560 money. I knew I wasn't a celebrity 808 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:19,400 influencer. I didn't come from the beauty 809 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,640 industry and have a 10 year at Lake L'Oreal, Estee Lauder or 810 00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:24,680 one of the big like I had none of that. 811 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:26,960 I was selling fish and knew nothing about beauty. 812 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:29,720 So who in their right mind would give me money to do that? 813 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:33,240 So maybe my story is the way it is and has to stay that way. 814 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,040 But if it doesn't, if you have money, you get that product 815 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:41,440 perfect, especially in beauty and food before you put it into 816 00:37:41,440 --> 00:37:44,040 the world. Amazing. 817 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,200 Thank you so much. I mean, today's been great. 818 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,600 I've written a whole page of notes. 819 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,080 I'm not. I'm going to keep writing notes 820 00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:50,520 after we after we finish the recording. 821 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,280 But yeah, I want to say a massive thank you, Jen. 822 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,280 And if people want to reach out and hear more about the story, 823 00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,880 engage in the business science and newsletter, buy products. 824 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:00,200 What's the website URL? What are the social handles? 825 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,240 How can people get in touch? Yeah, we're cheekbonebeauty.com 826 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:08,840 and I'm Cheekbone Jen on most of the other platforms or Jen 827 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,720 Harper on LinkedIn. Amazing. 828 00:38:11,720 --> 00:38:12,760 Amazing. Well, yeah, thank you again, 829 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:13,760 Jen. It's been so good to have you. 830 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:15,960 And yeah, sorry for the technical issues at the start. 831 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:17,080 And but yeah, thank you. SO. 832 00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,440 Much for joining us and yeah, all good. 833 00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:20,560 Thank you. Amazing. 834 00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,800 Well, if you guys have enjoyed today's episode, as I said at 835 00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,520 the start, please hit the subscribe button, leave us a 836 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:25,840 comment wherever you're listening to it. 837 00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:27,960 And if you wanted to join our newsletter, we're announcing 838 00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:29,400 something in January. I don't know if it's going to be 839 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,160 the first week of January. I did want it to be the first 840 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:32,400 week of January. We're announcing something 841 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:34,080 massive that we're going to be launching in September next 842 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:35,400 year. We've already got quite a few 843 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,640 brands signed up. There is already a bit of a 844 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,120 waiting list of just the people I've told, but it's going to be 845 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:41,120 unlimited. Everyone can join in. 846 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,680 It's completely free for you brands to attend as well, so 847 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,320 stay tuned for that. Go to wwspodcast.com, subscribe 848 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,760 to the newsletter. And I'm going to give Mark, our 849 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:51,760 web guy, a bit of a kick at the backside because the new website 850 00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:53,640 should be live now. It's just a new design. 851 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,760 It's not super exciting, but yeah, it should be live yet and 852 00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:56,840 it's not. So I'm going to give a quick 853 00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:58,520 kick. And if I don't hear from any of 854 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,800 you guys, have an amazing Christmas, make sure you tune in 855 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,400 on Tuesday as well. We're going to have a little bit 856 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,560 of a laugh on the show. And I don't know if there's an 857 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,560 outtake reel this year. I genuinely don't know, but I am 858 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:10,600 a bit nervous because no one said anything when I asked, so 859 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,360 keep an eye out for that. Thank you so much for being part 860 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,840 of the journey this year. And yeah, we hope you guys can 861 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,080 join us in 2026 as well. Have a very wonderful holiday 862 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,960 season and a happy New Year. Black Friday and Cyber Monday 863 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:22,680 are coming in fast. Is your store ready? 864 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,240 You need your marketing dialed in before the big rush and our 865 00:39:25,240 --> 00:39:27,960 sponsor Saguna has everything you need in one place from 866 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,640 emails and pop ups to reviews and more. 867 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,560 Saguna's suite of tools is built exclusively for Shopify, so 868 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,760 everything works seamlessly in your store. 869 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:38,840 And right now with code WWS 20, you get 20% off your first three 870 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:41,000 months. So don't wait until the starts. 871 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:44,160 Get your Black Friday and Cyber Monday marketing ready today at 872 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:48,680 saguno.com/winning with shopifythatssaguno.com/winning 873 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:49,120 with Shopify.