1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,880 Hello and welcome to another episode, the Winning with 2 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:04,000 Shopify Podcast and me, your host, Nick Truman. 3 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,520 I'm delighted to be joined again for a second time by Carolyn 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,880 from Yost. Carolyn, welcome back to the 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:09,600 show. How are you? 6 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:11,600 I'm well, thank you for having me. 7 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:14,360 Amazing. And I mean, what was it, 20 8 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:16,200 minutes notice? You're such a legend. 9 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:18,320 I'm so thankful you've come in. We had a guest cancer when I had 10 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,080 the slot free, so I thought, let's do it, Carolyn, we're 11 00:00:21,080 --> 00:00:23,880 going to jump straight in. People are listening to this 12 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:28,120 episode to know how to use AI to scale their Shopify stores SEO 13 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:31,080 revenue as fast as possible. How do they do it? 14 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:36,240 I you don't this, please, please don't, please don't try. 15 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:41,560 It's if you, you can't, you can't just turn something over 16 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,120 to AI, even even the best agent in the world and say magically 17 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:48,600 do this stuff for me that I am incapable of doing on my own. 18 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,600 It's not going to AIAI is there to help you do things that you 19 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,800 know how to do faster. It's not there to it can't give 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,160 you your strategy, not 100%, not without a lot of a lot of 21 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:07,400 adjustments and input from you because it's just going to make 22 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,280 things up or it's or it's unreliable. 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,600 It can't do math. It's it's just not, you can't 24 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:13,800 trust it. Not 100% of the time, not enough 25 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,360 to, to just let it run free. So I I have I have opinions 26 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,640 about this. And we're totally aligned on 27 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,400 this, which is why I invited you on like last minute to talk 28 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,800 about this topic. Some of the things people 29 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,600 automate in AI then processes like content production 30 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,760 automations across their sites, which I mean, it scares me. 31 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,200 You mentioned it not being able to do math. 32 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,560 It scares me a lot. Let's start with content. 33 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:42,440 Some people are posting online at the moment on YouTube and 34 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:43,920 other places. And I know you're, you're quite 35 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:46,640 an active commenter on SE Journal and which some of you 36 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,480 guys may never have heard of. But me, I'm an absolute fanboy 37 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,000 of all the authors. As an SEO person, it's, it's the 38 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,200 place people comment on algorithm updates, all the kind 39 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,440 of nerdy SEO stuff. There are so many people saying 40 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,600 that let's start with content. There's so many people saying 41 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,200 that they post 100 articles a day on their site and in an 42 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,800 e-commerce site, traffic's going up dramatically. 43 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:09,680 What are your thoughts, Carolyn? Like give us some, give us some 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,120 clarity on whether that's a good or bad strategy or how bad it 45 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,320 is. I can almost understand, almost 46 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,920 understand the desire to do that if your site is a site that 47 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:26,400 monetizes based on eyeballs for a site that sells things, which 48 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:29,560 is what a Shopify store would be by definition, right? 49 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:34,680 I, I can't even express how how horrified I am by that, that 50 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:40,200 thought you're, you're diluting, you're diluting your signal. 51 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,360 You're, you're going to confuse everything. 52 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,240 So what happens? I've got. 53 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,040 I'm so horrified I can't even string the other. 54 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:49,400 Side it's alright, take your, it's a safe space. 55 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,960 Take your time. So you want the LLMS to 56 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,680 recommend your products. You want them to know things 57 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:00,480 about your products. What are you going to write 58 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:02,840 about in this content that's going out? 59 00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:07,920 The content is likely going to be rehashed, regurgitated, 60 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:15,880 repackaged, and probably diluted in a in a in prose descriptions 61 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,080 and little factoids about your product. 62 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:25,560 All of those facts which should be clean, crisp, clear, and easy 63 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:28,800 to extract from the product page itself. 64 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:35,080 You don't need to write a flowery 750 word article about 65 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:41,920 the the joys of my my pink widget with purple fur when you 66 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,480 should be. The LM should just go oh, I need 67 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,600 information about the pink widget with purple fur. 68 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,480 I'm going to go to Carolyn's website and just get the product 69 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,000 information about it. Because all of that information 70 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,440 should be there, packaged up and easy for them to extract. 71 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,840 If you make them work too hard or you accidentally send them to 72 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:03,280 a page that doesn't have all the information or has it spread out 73 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,960 on the page in, in, in a story and not easy for them to grab, 74 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:09,920 they're going to start grabbing the wrong things. 75 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,280 So you're either going to send them to the wrong page, they're 76 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,440 going to start returning incorrect information, not not 77 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,560 the image that you want them to return. 78 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:21,399 There's all these different problems that are going to 79 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:24,880 happen when you've got too much content competing with itself. 80 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:29,360 And when you're letting the AIS write your content without 81 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:35,040 giving them new angles, new new hooks, new new something, new 82 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,800 data points so that they have unique articles that are 83 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,640 actually interesting for people. They're just going to keep 84 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:45,200 regurgitating and repackaging the content that they already 85 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:49,400 have, which is by definition diluting your signal. 86 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,360 And it's just so bad. I can't even articulate how bad 87 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:55,600 that is. Yeah, I completely agree. 88 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,600 And I think looking at it, because I'm a human and I can do 89 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:02,240 some math, looking at it mathematically, it's, I find it 90 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,480 interesting that it's like, if you say, OK, we've got all this 91 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:08,920 content on our website and Google's got a set cruel budget. 92 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,040 There's only so long Google can spend crawling our content. 93 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,400 Do you want it to crawl your products and categories or 94 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,200 collections and, and Shopify, or do you want it to crawl this 95 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,320 massive archive of blog content or whatever, or buying guides 96 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,720 that no one ever reads? I mean, it's fascinating when 97 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,160 you mentioned earlier as well, we'll, we'll put a link in the 98 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,840 description to this, but your LinkedIn post about this kind of 99 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:31,280 content mill you mentioned. And I, I find it fascinating 100 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:33,760 that I, I think you said you did the maths on this just to work 101 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,000 out like we've had this many more clicks and you were like, 102 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,280 that's less than one per page, wasn't it? 103 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:40,720 And it's like, why are we spreading users across that area 104 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:42,560 of the site? You can't buy on those pages. 105 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:44,600 And we're a, we're an e-commerce business. 106 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,320 Yeah. So this particular site that I'm 107 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,560 thinking of was doing 202 hundred AI generated articles 108 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,040 per week. So over the course of the month, 109 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:59,440 that's about 800, right? They had 795 additional new 110 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:01,640 clicks. So yes, that is incremental 111 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,160 growth. But 795 is less than 800, you 112 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:08,640 know, may not be a math major, but I can do that. 113 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,920 That's less than one each. So how much, how much damage are 114 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,840 they doing to the site to get less than one click per per new 115 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:22,760 article that they're putting up? I'll tell you because they did 116 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:25,760 this for like 3 months. They went from having most of 117 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,960 their articles and most of their pages rank on page low page one 118 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,920 top of page 2 to reliably bottom of page 2. 119 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:40,760 You know, Page 3 type of stuff. It's if you are not on page one, 120 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,040 it is highly unlikely you are going to get cited. 121 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,640 So what they did was they got less than one per page 122 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,560 incremental click growth and they've now knocked themselves 123 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,280 out of every single citation possibility in the universe. 124 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,760 So congratulations, well done all. 125 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,760 I think I think one of the worst things about this as well, 126 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:02,920 though, is, as I said, with the cruel budget, is it because it 127 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:04,640 because of what they've done there and they've got that 128 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,240 incremental growth on the articles. 129 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,440 They're now not getting clicks from customers who are like, I 130 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,040 want to buy a product go and that's their search term into 131 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:13,880 Google, the keyword. I want to buy a product. 132 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:15,360 Bang. And then you come up with the 133 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,760 products like you, you've literally said to Google that 134 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:20,800 that's that's all cool. And you can look at that if you 135 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,240 want Google, but look at all these amazing new non 136 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:27,000 purchasable articles. It's, it's, although I, I get, 137 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:30,120 like you said earlier, I see the appeal of like, well, if we 138 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:32,760 create a page, there's a chance that page comes up on Google. 139 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,680 So more pages equals more chances, right? 140 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:37,320 And but it, it does. But there's also the problem of, 141 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,640 I think you make a really good point that content should be on 142 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,640 your product page. Now, I was thinking of asking 143 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:45,640 you quite a mean question, which is, well, what content should be 144 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,440 on the product page? But I'm going to ask you a much 145 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:50,080 smarter question because it will differ from business to business 146 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,320 and customer to customer. How do you decide SEO hat on and 147 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,040 e-commerce hat on? How do you decide what content 148 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,080 you should put on a product page? 149 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:01,480 And then we'll look at collections and categories in a 150 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:03,040 minute as well, because they tend to be the higher volume 151 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,120 ones. But how do you determine what 152 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:08,240 should go on a product page? So you need to have the, you 153 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,080 need to have the basics. I, I, I make these decisions as 154 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,040 a human, looking at what the product is and then putting 155 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,560 myself in the place of the buyer. 156 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:22,000 What kinds of questions might a buyer be asking Chachi BT, for 157 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:28,040 example, about this product? So if they are, I don't know, 158 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,640 let's say dresses because I've used this before. 159 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:36,480 If I'm talking to Chachi BT about dresses, I'm probably 160 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:42,080 asking it for specific sizes, specific silhouettes. 161 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,640 So an inline dress, is it a sheath? 162 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:47,600 What is what's, what's the description of the way that 163 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,120 dress looks? I will probably ask about colors 164 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,520 and remind me about colors because there's, there's an 165 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,360 extra point about that. I will ask about the fabric. 166 00:08:58,560 --> 00:09:03,920 I might ask about the care instructions because believe it 167 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,600 or not, you know, not everybody wants dry clean only clothes. 168 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:13,320 It's very true. Yeah, but, and when it comes to 169 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:17,680 colors, one of the things that I've I've found to be a problem 170 00:09:17,680 --> 00:09:22,400 with some some makers is that they get very clever about the 171 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,560 color, their color naming, You know, it's almost like they 172 00:09:25,560 --> 00:09:30,600 think they're crayons. I was asking for a specific 173 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:34,000 brand, a specific size, a specific silhouette. 174 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,480 I wanted ChatGPT to go find all of the things that matched that 175 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,960 on this one maker's website, and I wanted only the options that 176 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,840 came in white or ivory, which are pretty standard colors. 177 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,920 It returned 5 dresses that matched. 178 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,280 It did not, however, return the dress that I was looking for, 179 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,760 which I'd seen on Facebook, so I knew it was there. 180 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,560 So I went, I went to the website myself and I found it. 181 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,040 I'm like, why on earth did this not show up? 182 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,280 Because it should have. It pulled five other dresses 183 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:04,520 from the site. Why isn't that one? 184 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:05,960 There is. The color like Pearl or 185 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:10,000 something instead of white. No worse for school, right? 186 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,400 It's not even color like honest, honestly, it like if it had been 187 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,720 Pearl, I, I, I can see where an LLM would be smart enough to go. 188 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,800 Pearls are generally whitish. That probably counts, but 189 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,520 pristine is not even a color. That's, you know that there's 190 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:27,000 lipstick companies that do that too. 191 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,320 They've got the goofiest names for these things. 192 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:34,080 You have to, you have to put all of the, all of the, the details 193 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,120 into the page either in the, you know, there's like product, 194 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,800 product description fields and attributes as long as they're on 195 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:43,640 the page somewhere that's going to be helpful. 196 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,200 But when it comes to colors, if you've got creatively named 197 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:51,720 colors, do make sure that you're putting it like in parentheses 198 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,480 next to like pristine in parentheses ivory or if it's 199 00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,360 called cherry, put red, things like that. 200 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:06,040 Make sure that you're being accurate, but also unambiguous 201 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,280 and exceptionally clear, just so that as it comes through and 202 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:15,240 it's looking for, you know, semantic matches, it actually 203 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,760 matches. Which as bringing it back to 204 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:21,040 today's topic about growing faster with AI, the more basic 205 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,480 information you give to AI when somebody asks it, right? 206 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,760 I'm looking for an ivory coloured dress, I think. 207 00:11:26,760 --> 00:11:28,600 I think ivory is an interesting one as well because there's 208 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,160 obviously connotations to the material, which is illegal, I 209 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,440 think in almost every country that has a moral compass across 210 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,320 the world now. And so I, I hear the point and I 211 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,560 think we've had businesses before like come up with random 212 00:11:41,560 --> 00:11:42,920 names like this one's called forest. 213 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,480 It's like, no, no dark green. And then this one's called, what 214 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:47,800 was the other one was called oak. 215 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,960 And we're like no light green. So, and we, we were doing it 216 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:53,480 from a Google shopping feed point of view because the Google 217 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,880 shopping especially is like a very, I'd say a lot more 218 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,000 primitive than a, than an AI boy. 219 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,440 It just, it doesn't have the same knowledge as AI will to 220 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:04,200 kind of determine like it. It the AI will at least go and 221 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,640 look and go right. OK, Ivory is generally A whitish 222 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,960 kind of colour, whereas Google would just go ivory's not the 223 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:12,520 colour on this. So I'm just going to ignore it 224 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,480 when someone searches ivory. So as you say, I think having 225 00:12:14,480 --> 00:12:18,280 both or doing like olive green is a nice way of, of doing that 226 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,960 or magenta, pink or pink, magenta is a good way to do it. 227 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:24,880 And so you, but I think giving all this information there means 228 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,320 ChatGPT in the AI bots can actually do their bit to drive 229 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,280 more traffic, to drive more awareness even more. 230 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,920 So where we used to do in the old days of SEO, we used to do 231 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:37,040 it for accessibility, didn't we? So people that were hard of 232 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,520 site, we used to put in things like alt tags in images and 233 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:42,640 things like that. But now AI has come up with 234 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,040 another use for those things where you might rather than 235 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:48,000 doing a search in AI, you might actually give a screenshot or a 236 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,000 screenshot on your phone. I saw this on on Facebook or I 237 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:53,400 saw this on Instagram and actually want to find and as 238 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:55,080 products. You give that image to ChatGPT 239 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:57,160 and then it tracks it down for you and finds the brand and 240 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:00,280 everything else where that product is, which actually opens 241 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:01,960 a whole world of opportunities of going. 242 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,880 You can just use your product imagery content on Instagram and 243 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:08,040 people can still find it through means like that. 244 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,560 You don't have to go and do an expensive shoot, but to scale up 245 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,480 faster. I, I find that if you can't, if 246 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,720 you can't describe the products in text without using the image 247 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:23,320 itself, things like AI and SEO as a whole and Google show, it's 248 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,320 going to be harder for people to find things. 249 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,520 And I, I, I've been thinking for years and there's, there's 250 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:29,800 probably millions of these online. 251 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,800 We've been thinking for years, we should make some sort of 252 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,840 checklist and public and publish it just to say, like every 253 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,440 product you ever put on an e-commerce website, you need to 254 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:40,120 go through this checklist and, and all the basic things of 255 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,720 like, you know, does it have, does it have all the right 256 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,080 parameters on it? I'll give an example. 257 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:47,680 I, I'm at dad's now. So I instead of buying fun 258 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,840 things like tickets to football games and go and beers at the 259 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,360 pub, I now buy things like roof boxes for my car because my 260 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:56,440 car's enormous and it's too small. 261 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,800 I mean, it's tiny compared to the States, but it's massive for 262 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:00,400 the UK. It doesn't fit in parking spaces 263 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:03,000 really. But I bought a roof box and the 264 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,840 one I was looking at it said it had a load capacity of 75 265 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:07,320 kilograms. And I thought, that's great. 266 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:09,080 I don't know how much that is in pounds for you guys. 267 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,200 Over the over the pond pounds don't make any sense, but it's 268 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,960 75 kilograms. But then I was like, but how 269 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:16,600 heavy is the box? Then that raised it. 270 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,120 But he didn't say that on the website. 271 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:20,320 I still ended up buying the product, but I had to go to chat 272 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,280 GBC or Google to find out the weight of that brand of roof box 273 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,320 before making my decision. So I I think that's I don't know 274 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:29,120 what your thoughts are, Karen, but I think that that tends to 275 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,680 be a good rule for me is like, could you explain the image only 276 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,520 using text on the page so that it naturally becomes more 277 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920 searchable. Yost have just. 278 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:40,800 Launched something that is absolutely game changing. 279 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:45,080 Their new AI Brand Insights tool is now in beta, and it's built 280 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,040 to help you track your brand's visibility, sentiment and 281 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:51,280 credibility across AI platforms like ChatGPT. 282 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,960 As search expands from Google to AI Answers, this tool gives you 283 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:57,840 a clearview of how your brand shows up, combining sentiment, 284 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,480 visibility and mentions. It's designed for marketers who 285 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,320 want enterprise level insight without the enterprise price 286 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:08,040 less than $400.00 per year. And here's the best bit. 287 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,200 Yost Black Friday sale is now on. 288 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:14,200 So starting November 27th, you'll get a 30% discount off 289 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:18,600 all annual plans, including the new Yost SEOAI Plus. 290 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:21,040 Head to Yost. Dot com to learn more and grab 291 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,360 your discount. I think airing on the side of 292 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,200 too much information is preferable to not having enough 293 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:33,000 information. Anything that would be in a spec 294 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,160 sheet, I would make spec sheets available. 295 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:41,240 You know, it's, you never know what very particular use case 296 00:15:41,240 --> 00:15:45,680 someone is going to have that's going to materially affect the 297 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:47,520 recommendations they're getting back. 298 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:51,440 And if it's something that you could have gotten into had you 299 00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:57,240 had that information, it it's not going to, it costs you so 300 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,880 little to be very thorough in your documentation on each of 301 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,200 the product pages. We've had conversations with 302 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,000 clients before. We've sort of said, do you guys 303 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:07,360 think you might have too many products? 304 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:09,320 You know, when they say we haven't got time to put this 305 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,880 information on every product and it's like, well then no one's 306 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,520 going to buy anything. So can we at least choose a 307 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:18,160 range, get some more revenue from that range and then perhaps 308 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,720 we could hire some external help to get more information? 309 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,880 Because your manufacturer sends you all the information, you 310 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:24,640 just haven't got time to digest it. 311 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,040 Write it in your tone of voice and make it relevant to your 312 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,560 customer rather than the manufacturer's written it for 313 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:29,920 you. So. 314 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,560 Maybe that's where AI could be used to help you scale up 315 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,080 quickly. If you've got the information 316 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:42,120 from the manufacturer, you dump that into, you know, a folder in 317 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,920 Google Drive or something and you have the AI say for each of 318 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:51,720 these, go through and write an incredibly detailed short 319 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:55,840 description, long description, give me all of the recommended 320 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:58,040 attributes. And then maybe you, maybe you 321 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,360 tell it what attributes you're currently, you're currently 322 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:05,240 writing for so that it can identify those and just make 323 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:08,480 something that's ready to copy and paste or make something that 324 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,920 you can then shoot into an API and upload. 325 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:17,560 That would be, that would be an AI use that I, I think would be 326 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,880 actually useful because it's, it's a repeatable process that 327 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,720 isn't that complicated. It doesn't require that much 328 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:28,480 judgement. And you've got all of this 329 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,920 really rich data that it can review. 330 00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:35,120 So that that is one situation that we've the one situation 331 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:37,920 we've discussed where I think AI might be able to help you scale 332 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:40,520 and make money faster. I think the key thing with that 333 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,960 as well, I love the idea and we do for some clients, we, we will 334 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,680 have like a, an agent, an agentic AI where we teach them 335 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:50,680 the tone of voice. We, but we, we've spent probably 336 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,760 like days, if not weeks training it before we've actually got the 337 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,560 out the first output we're happy with. 338 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,760 And that's, that's what that's my point really is like, if you 339 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:00,840 want to scale fast, sometimes going actually, we're going to 340 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,880 scale really fast in the last three months of the next 12, 341 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,520 we're going to spend nine months teaching the AI what to do, get 342 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:09,600 it right, get it perfect. But we've been using AI as well 343 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,000 to do lots of coding. So building systems internally 344 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,480 that you can then like test. And so we're, we're looking at 345 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,400 getting and sorry if, if, if they're listening, they're not 346 00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,280 one of our sponsors, but we're probably going to build our own 347 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,760 Google shopping feed management tools soon because the tool we 348 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:25,440 pay for it costs us hundreds of dollars a month, sometimes 349 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:27,800 thousands, depending on how many feeds we've got in there, half 350 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,640 the features we don't use, probably more. 351 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,000 And there's things it doesn't do that we then interject manually 352 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,760 before it goes into Google. And it's like, well, we, we, 353 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,600 we've just been vibe coding with AI and same to AI rebuild this 354 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,040 tool for us. But we, we don't need any of 355 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:40,400 these features and we do need lots of these. 356 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,680 And then I think it was like the 30th or 40th time we clicked get 357 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:45,360 feed and it finally went, I've got it. 358 00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:47,240 There's 150 products in the feed. 359 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,960 It's like, yes, it was like, I think I was sitting on a train 360 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,360 at the time and I was like, yes. And then it was like, now I need 361 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,480 to get it to do the optimization and the output. 362 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,080 But it was like, but I think using AI for building tools that 363 00:18:58,080 --> 00:18:59,840 people could then do things at scale. 364 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,800 So for example, Carolyn, and I think this is a good point, off 365 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:06,800 the back of the content is one of the tools we've helped build 366 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,160 for one of our clients now is where they were opening, I think 367 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:12,800 four or five different pages of things to bring information 368 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,000 together to then make one update on the site. 369 00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:18,160 So we built an AI tool now that grabs all of them through, I 370 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,160 think two or three or through API and one through a Google 371 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:21,280 Drive structure, just as you said. 372 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,440 And it brings all that together on a single screen. 373 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,880 So the user can scroll through about four boxes. 374 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:27,520 Everything else was a copy and paste. 375 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,320 So it can copy and paste these things and there's three or four 376 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:33,080 things it just needs to check, and one or two will need a tiny 377 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,920 edit and just click next. And we took what was like a four 378 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,720 or five minute process and now it's like 20 seconds, which now 379 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,920 means the human can work faster. The human you have to have the 380 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,920 process dialed in in order to have a successful agentic route 381 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:52,360 to do that same process. Because if it's chaotic, all 382 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:55,800 you're going to be doing is scaling chaos. 383 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,920 You you need to have a defined process that is functional and 384 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,840 then it'll make it go faster. But if it's already kind of 385 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,600 crazy, you're just going to make the crazy bigger and faster. 386 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:07,400 Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 387 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,320 And I said we'll talk about products and then we'll talk 388 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,000 about collections. Collections on a Shopify store 389 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,160 are a bit different, aren't they? 390 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,520 Because they're not just where, where, where products very 391 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,960 specific collection is a sort of, I kind of know what I want 392 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:21,760 depending on whether you're in sort of like a top level, like 393 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:25,120 just looking at menswear or just looking at, for example, just 394 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:28,320 looking at cars at this stage versus like, I want one of these 395 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,600 and this company have 5. So again, a collection's a good 396 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,200 place to land. I guess the, the hardest 397 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,560 question I think I can ask you on this is, and I know it's hard 398 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,160 because we, we get asked this a lot. 399 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,040 How do we balance between having a collection that is very 400 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:45,280 simply, just like here are the products simple UX, like drill 401 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,840 down to the one you want and click on it and it's got all the 402 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:49,760 right functionality and the filters and things and 403 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,840 parameters? How do you balance like that? 404 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,120 Fasts, one of my clients calls it Lift and shift. 405 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,800 How do you balance that lift and shifter journey where people can 406 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,640 just buy products or get into products quickly? 407 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,840 With the SEO world, that would say you need lots of content and 408 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,920 FAQs and a description, and it might be the first part of the 409 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,480 site they're on. So like how much are we going to 410 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,600 introduce to the business if the SE as worked well? 411 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,720 Like how do you find that balance for a brand? 412 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:17,880 I don't think the things that we did before are effective or 413 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:22,080 necessary today and will become less so going forward. 414 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:26,160 I think the things that are helping you get your your 415 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:33,600 products into the LLMS right now are almost exclusively like the 416 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:38,120 product schema and getting into the product carousel on Google 417 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,560 or Bing, whatever. They're scraping the Serps, 418 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:45,920 they're getting things out of that product carousel. 419 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:53,840 It's so much less about having the right number of keywords in 420 00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:55,760 a page or the right amount of text on a page. 421 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,840 If you can get it, if you can get it onto page one, just you 422 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,560 have enough brand authority to get up to Page 1. 423 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,400 When they grab that seed list from whichever search engine 424 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:07,920 they're using, you'll be in there. 425 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:10,480 And then it really comes down to are you matching? 426 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,920 Is your product matching what the user's looking for? 427 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,200 So it's so it's so specific to the user's search. 428 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:22,320 Now, I don't know that you need to have you, you absolutely need 429 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,800 to have FAQs. You absolutely need to have, you 430 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:28,080 know, this, this brand positioning statement and about 431 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,000 Us and all this other stuff. If it's, if you think that there 432 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,600 are questions the user's going to have, like lots of users are 433 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:36,640 going to have, then yes, have FAQs. 434 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:39,680 If you think they're going to need the spec sheet, provide the 435 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,040 spec sheet. Think about what the user is 436 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,840 going to be needing and make sure that's available on the 437 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:46,920 page. But don't include things just 438 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:48,840 because you think it's necessary for SEO. 439 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:53,280 The only thing you need for SEO at this point is you need the 440 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,960 the descriptions to be solid. You need that page to at least 441 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:58,880 rank. Like if you can get in the top 442 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:02,680 ten, fantastic. If you're at least in the on the 443 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:06,120 1st 2 pages, I think that's possibly good enough. 444 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,320 Ideally, you want to be in the on the first page, you want to 445 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,160 be in that product carousel. But you need to make sure that 446 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,360 the content that is there can be read easily by the elements when 447 00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:20,520 they come through. And knowing that the inference 448 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:25,360 time rendering and processing that they do is not the same as 449 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,720 what you know Google's going to do when they come past, I think 450 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,240 is very important to remember. It's really it's almost you have 451 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:39,440 to D degenzify your your pages. Anything that's like trapped in 452 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:44,440 in JavaScript, anything that requires a human to touch it, to 453 00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,560 expand it so it can be seen. None of those things are 454 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:49,440 viewable. So even if you have all of this 455 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,320 great information about your product, there's a possibility 456 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,720 that it's hidden and the LLMS can't see it anyway. 457 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,960 So I think for SEO purposes, make sure that all the important 458 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:05,440 information is, I would, I would default to plain text, like make 459 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:08,440 it text on the page. Don't, don't trust that they're 460 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:12,400 going to extract it from the picture or anything else. 461 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,040 Trust nothing. Make sure it's text on the page. 462 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:16,880 Make sure everything's extractable. 463 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:21,800 And then do do what you need to do to rank like top 20, minimum 464 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:25,080 top 10 would be ideal. But don't, don't go through and 465 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,800 do the, oh, we have to have this in the footer. 466 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:34,520 And I think, I think it's, it's less, I think because of the way 467 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:38,360 they're doing their searches, it's less fussy, if that makes 468 00:24:38,360 --> 00:24:40,000 sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it does. 469 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,160 I love the fact that you're, I think you're being very 470 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,400 reasonable, which is good. I think a lot of people when 471 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,360 they stare at their website are like, what do I optimize next? 472 00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:52,280 And I think the, the, the way of taking what I, I like to 473 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,240 describe as a reasonable approach is going, OK. 474 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,320 Is it, is it a product that's like, is it a pipe connector? 475 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,120 It needs to be exactly the right size. 476 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:02,880 It has to fit the one that's broken, which is why I'm buying 477 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:04,320 it. The plumber knows what they 478 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,560 need. The plumber needs the spec 479 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:07,480 sheet. I, you know, if you, if I go on 480 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,560 a page and it has an installation guide, there's a 481 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:12,640 higher chance of me buying it because not only can I buy this 482 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:16,080 product and then all the normal things, delivery time, reviews, 483 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,120 etcetera, price, all those things obviously kick in, but 484 00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,480 actually it's telling me how to install it as well. 485 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:24,920 They're now fixing my problem. They're not just giving me a 486 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,800 product and over to you and you need to hire a plumber. 487 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,400 It's like you're actually helping me fix the problem now. 488 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:34,440 I mean, I fitted those Wi-Fi thermostats all around my house 489 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,160 recently. So like every room now is at a 490 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,800 slightly different temperature so the baby can have it nice and 491 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:40,480 warm. And in our bedroom it's nice and 492 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,520 cold where which is much better for sleeping. 493 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,440 And so, but I installed those myself because I watched the 494 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,120 video. It was like a minute long from 495 00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,440 the company I bought them through and I was like, well, 496 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:50,400 that's easy, I'll just do all of that. 497 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:52,400 And my plumber came round and took him about an hour just to 498 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,280 fit a thing to the boiler, to tell the boiler to come on, to 499 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,600 pump up water until if a radiator needed it. 500 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:01,160 And so again, I mean, that's just, it's saved me so much time 501 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,440 and money and there's probably better products out there, but 502 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,560 it was easy and it solved my problem, which I think is 503 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,640 really, really important. I should say as well, we've had 504 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,560 not just yourself, Carolyn, but we've had a few of your 505 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,000 colleagues on from Yost in the past. 506 00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,000 And I always forget to shout out that if people want to use Yost 507 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,000 as few of the things Carolyn mentioned, the Yost app on 508 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,720 Shopify actually does do those things, which is like the schema 509 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,040 is a lot easier. And some of the files like a 510 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,200 robots, the TXT and site maps and things, they're all, they're 511 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,000 all made much, much better and optimised is the way we tend to 512 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,520 use in our industry. And it's $19.00 a month. 513 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:33,920 There's a free, I think it's a free trial. 514 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,720 I've got it open here. But the thing I, yeah, the thing 515 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,200 I always a 14 day, that's it. And I, the thing I always forget 516 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,440 to say is if you use the code WWS, you get 15% off as well. 517 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,800 I mentioned it in passing recently and hundreds of people 518 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,520 use the code. So WWS gets you 15% off. 519 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,600 Yeah. Your colleague Anna was very 520 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,720 happy. Some of the few times we had got 521 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,080 a response from her in less than a minute. 522 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,680 It was like, this is great. But yeah, so we, we, we 523 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,080 obviously took you guys on as a partner for the podcast because 524 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:03,720 we work in SEO. We've been using Yosh, the 525 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,560 WordPress for years. You guys are one of the, I think 526 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,460 the last time we checked you the most used, most use website plug 527 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:10,440 in in the world. Why don't you tell us a bit more 528 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:12,720 just about some of the features on both WordPress and Shopify in 529 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,200 terms of it doing some of this scheme of stuff that AI is going 530 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,480 to pick up on this? Episode of Winning Shopify is 531 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:20,240 brought to you by Tax Cloud. It's the busiest time of year 532 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,440 for e-commerce. Your stores buzzing, orders 533 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:23,960 flying in, and growth is at an all time high. 534 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,120 But with all that momentum can come new sales tax exposure that 535 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:30,120 you might not even see coming. That's why now is the perfect 536 00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:32,400 time to take a closer look at how you're handling sales tax 537 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,520 and make sure your business is set up for the growth that 538 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,360 you've earned. Tax Cloud is our trusted partner 539 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:39,160 for sales tax compliance. Built for growing Shopify 540 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,840 brands. They handle regulations, 541 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,960 filings, and ongoing compliance, working directly with the states 542 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,440 on your behalf across the US so you can stay focused on running 543 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,040 your store. They've got a five star rating 544 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,600 in the Shopify App Store and listeners winning Shopify get 545 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,080 free migration and boarding when you make the switch. 546 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,800 To apply for that and learn more, you can go to 547 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,960 taxcloud.com/winning. That's taxcloud.com/winning. 548 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,360 So it's doing, it's doing all of the schema that is necessary and 549 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:10,000 we are continuing to add more. That is, we have a team. 550 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:16,960 That team, we have guys that all they focus on is doing is adding 551 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:19,360 to the schema and improving it. So the schema's there. 552 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,640 We're doing, we handle the changes to the robots. 553 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,240 We've added an LLMS dot TXT, which I know is a little 554 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:28,840 controversial. There are people that really 555 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:33,720 hate that and LLMS dot TXT. It's not like a robot's it's 556 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:38,280 meant to showcase your information and your key 557 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:43,880 products to the LLMS only it's written in a markdown format so 558 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,800 it's easy for them to ingest. There's limited use of it right 559 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:50,760 now. People are like, oh, well, it's 560 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,160 not a standard. Why are you bothering? 561 00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,720 It's happening automatically for you. 562 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,640 You're not really bothering. It's an easy thing to add. 563 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,320 And I would like to point out that robots dot TXT existed for 564 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,560 20 years before it became a standard. 565 00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,880 So this is very early in its life cycle. 566 00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,640 I would rather, you know, if it's, it's like, it's like 567 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:13,000 there's a dollar on the ground, I'm going to pick it up, right? 568 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,960 There's no reason not to. So we've got that. 569 00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:20,520 We've also added some new AI features into Shopify and we've 570 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,440 got an AI brand insights tool that is also I believe hooks 571 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,080 into Shopify. I'm pretty sure you can use, it 572 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:31,840 definitely hooks into the WordPress, but it will look at 573 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,360 the things that, the things that the AI's and the LLM's are 574 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,920 saying about your business and present that to you so that you 575 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,560 can see. Does this match what I, what I 576 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,680 believe about myself or what I say about myself? 577 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,000 Are there, are there room, is there areas, are there areas 578 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,680 where I could improve my messaging so that the AIS and 579 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,080 the LMS are returning better data basically? 580 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:58,120 So we've got just a lot of things in the hopper. 581 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:01,120 It's, it's a really exciting time to be an SEO because things 582 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,440 are changing so much. So I would love it if everyone 583 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:07,880 would give it a try. Yeah, I won't go into too much 584 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:09,920 detail, but there've been a couple of algorithm updates this 585 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:11,680 year. Just on the on your note of like 586 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,040 it's a fun time to be around. There's been a few where it's 587 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,480 literally like you wake up 1 morning and we as an agency are 588 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:19,560 like, Oh no, like this has gone totally S for this client. 589 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,240 And then two weeks later Google, like we've rolled out another 590 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:24,960 update after the update to update the update because the 591 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,160 update had issues. So we've done another update and 592 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:29,560 it's like, oh, we've recovered. It's like, has the client 593 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,520 emailed us yet? Like is there when we e-mail 594 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,680 clients immediately? But yeah, it's, it's been a mad 595 00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,120 time. Unless you actively broke 596 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:41,920 something on your site, there's there's almost no benefit in 597 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,440 hyperventilating and then reactively making changes right 598 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,280 after a big update, because they could issue a new update 2 days 599 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,240 later and fix everything that just went wrong. 600 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,800 And if you make changes based on that first one and then they fix 601 00:30:55,800 --> 00:31:00,320 it, now you're still screwed because they fixed the thing 602 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,520 that was broken, that you fixed, and now that fix doesn't work 603 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,120 anymore. So yeah, sometimes you just need 604 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:12,120 to have a cup of tea. Calm down. 605 00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:16,040 Yeah, I, I don't mean to, to make us look bad by saying this, 606 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,400 but it's normally when we've got new clients where we have things 607 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,080 like that a bit fluctuating. If if you find any algorithm 608 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:25,280 update hits you negatively and it's even more so if you then 609 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,680 recover a few days later when they do another update, it means 610 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,040 you're on Google's radar and not in a good way. 611 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,520 That means something before wasn't right. 612 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,600 I, I always come back to certainly when we have like CEOs 613 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,480 asking us like, can you just explain SEO in like 1 minute 614 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,120 just so I get like, what's the opportunity here? 615 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,880 Like, And I always say Google's ethos has never changed. 616 00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:47,680 They want the best website with the best solution, the best 617 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:50,160 answer to the user's problem or question. 618 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,400 And they just want the best, the best response up at #1 every 619 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,960 change has revolved around that. That is their mantra is to help 620 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,800 the world, help the Internet. At the point of it being free, 621 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,520 I'm free, Well, free to use the Google bit and then go through 622 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,480 from there. So yeah, sorry, it's WWS 15. 623 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,200 That's why I don't read these codes out as I we have them for 624 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,400 most of our parts, but it's WWS 15 to get 15% off. 625 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,160 But winding back the clock or even looking at some of our 626 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,160 custom builds, platformed clients in e-commerce or Magento 627 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,880 clients on Shopify, especially, even more so than Woo commerce, 628 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,440 where where you guys obviously have the integration your, your 629 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,240 famous integration, whatever on Shopify, because a lot of this 630 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,640 information about product data and stuff is actually built into 631 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,800 the Shopify engine. An app like Yoast can grab it so 632 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,120 easily that you literally, I've got the screenshot open on my 633 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:39,600 screen here, but you, you turn schema output on, you just 634 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,480 enable it and it's like, great. Well, that's sorted. 635 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,920 And then underneath it, I think it would turn them all on by 636 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:45,240 default. But you can turn on and off 637 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,920 things like organization, which feeds schema data through the 638 00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,680 code to anything that wants to crawl it about who your 639 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:54,200 organization is. I think it also includes like 640 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,080 who the CEO is, what year you were founded and you can 641 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:58,320 website. You should obviously have turned 642 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:00,920 on because you are a website. And the fact is a web page, you 643 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:03,520 can have them turned on for articles because when you post 644 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,000 an article within Shopify, it knows it's an article that lives 645 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,000 within one of its what it calls blogs. 646 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,520 So again, there's, there's such simple things like this. 647 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:14,760 And it's the same with product if you there's also rich 648 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:17,000 snippets checker, which is a Google tool. 649 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,400 I'm just going to check if it's still called that Rich snippets 650 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:24,960 testing tool. Rich Snippets test, it's called 651 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:26,400 at the moment. They changed the names. 652 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,760 They changed the name in Looker Studio to Data Studio, but they 653 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,120 only called it Liquor like a year or two ago in my memory. 654 00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:34,800 But yes. Looker was not the greatest 655 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,400 name. I wouldn't. 656 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,280 It wasn't, no. Data Studio sounds better. 657 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:40,920 Yeah, I think got enough complaints they were like, all 658 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,880 right, call it data. But yeah, the, the ease of 659 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,640 turning this thing on and if you use the rich snippets checker or 660 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,400 it's whatever I just called it, I've just closed it now. 661 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,520 But if you use that as a free tool from Google and it will 662 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:52,200 tell you what schema is coming through and what's not. 663 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,360 Start Yo's 14 day trial and click the button and turn it on 664 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,840 and see what it's now pumping out. 665 00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:59,560 And then keep an eye on the data and see like we're now getting 666 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,680 more listings And Google Search Console will also tell you like 667 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,360 some of the bread crumbs that are being used and reviews and 668 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:08,360 stuff like that as well. Any questions? 669 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,840 You know, one thing that I don't know, Bing Webmaster Tools is 670 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,120 doing some really interesting things now. 671 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,840 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it does a lot of the 672 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:22,000 same things that Google Search Console does, but it has a very 673 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:27,280 nice, this is how you're showing up in AI and LLMS. And these are 674 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,719 the pages that we're citing. So you can get, I think you 675 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:36,760 might get a, a deeper view of how you're performing in the AIS 676 00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,199 and LLMS from Bing Webmaster Tools. 677 00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:42,280 And if you already have Google Search Console set up, you can 678 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,360 log in and just import everything over magically. 679 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,480 So if you're not, I mean, it's a free thing to do. 680 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,080 So if you're not doing that, I would I would add that to the 681 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,800 your list of things to maybe do Monday morning. 682 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,120 Absolutely, absolutely. And I'm going to, I'm going to 683 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,160 land on a really hard question, Carolyn, because you're very 684 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:01,400 good with hard questions looking forwards from now. 685 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:03,440 What do you think? And I'm not asking for 686 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:05,480 prediction, but what are some of the things that are going on 687 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,920 already that you're aware of around AI? 688 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:10,040 That anyone that's running a Shopify store, running an 689 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,840 e-commerce business, these guys should be concerned, should be 690 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,560 excited, should be aware of more of these changes coming around 691 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,720 AI and the way they run their processes, the way they approach 692 00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:21,960 SCO, the way they manage content. 693 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:23,760 Yeah. What are some of the things that 694 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:25,080 you're aware of on on Your radar? 695 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,040 The biggest thing that I'm concerned about is making sure 696 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:34,040 that client sites are easily traversable by the agents that 697 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:38,080 might not be. There's there's different kinds 698 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,840 of agents. There's the agents that people 699 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,880 are coding with the intention of doing something specific, but 700 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,760 then there's like the agents that are just randomly going out 701 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:51,560 and shopping for people. And those agents might, they 702 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:55,280 need, they need to have an easy default way to get through your 703 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,720 website. So my concern with a lot of 704 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,960 older client websites is that they were not built in a way 705 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,160 that's easy to traverse by an agent that's using a text only 706 00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,240 browser. In the beginning, the agents 707 00:36:10,240 --> 00:36:12,640 will use the the text only browser like links. 708 00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,280 I don't know if you remember links until they get to the 709 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,280 point where they're sure that they're going to make the the 710 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,800 purchase and then I'll flip over to a visual browser so they can 711 00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:22,840 do everything, you know, they can actually complete the 712 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,640 purchase. But if you don't have an easy to 713 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:30,880 traverse site, you're going to lose out on sales and getting 714 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:36,560 those sites retrofitted, which there was a lot of UX work done, 715 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,200 a lot of design work. And a lot of designers will be 716 00:36:39,240 --> 00:36:45,200 offended because you're sometimes we have a lot of 717 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,280 digital jazz hands on our websites and the agents don't 718 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,360 want to be distracted by the digital jazz hands. 719 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,600 So you have to like. They just want like binary data, 720 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:56,600 don't they? Like how heavy is this product? 721 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,520 How many are available? When was it launched? 722 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,880 How much it? Might not have as much glitter 723 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,200 as you want it to have, but it will be more sales. 724 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,840 So money Trump's prettiness in in all situations. 725 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,200 It's just convincing people that that's what they need to do 726 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,320 because nobody wants to make themselves more ugly. 727 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:16,600 But you're not it's, it's just, it's utilitarian. 728 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:18,400 It's not ugly, isn't it? And. 729 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,320 I think I would say the approach like get all the information and 730 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:25,760 content in a format somehow, like on a document or even on a 731 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:29,840 staging site or whatever. Then say to a designer, this is 732 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,120 where we make money. And when people do this, do 733 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,160 this, do this, these are the things we need to therefore 734 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,400 communicate, make it look nice, make it pretty, or make people 735 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:39,240 go through that. You know, if there's four things 736 00:37:39,240 --> 00:37:41,760 they need to understand for the buy, the product design, the 737 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,320 page so that they want to go through those four things don't 738 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:50,040 make it look pretty in a way. That that causes things to not 739 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,400 be able to read it exactly exactly. 740 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,560 I had to, I had an interesting browse around some case studies 741 00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:58,120 a couple of weeks ago. And one of them, it started with 742 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,160 a discussion with a client who said we're going to put our, at 743 00:38:01,240 --> 00:38:03,960 the moment it's got like all their kind of level 1 744 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:05,840 collections and they Shopify store across the main NAV And 745 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:07,480 you can just click on one of them and it takes you to that 746 00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:09,680 top one and you can put your way down from there. 747 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,080 And they said, we're going to put that under a shop drop down. 748 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:14,840 I was like, why are you adding a step? 749 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,160 Like it's the number one place people go and all your money 750 00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,680 comes from people finding a product, adding to cart and 751 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,960 purchasing. Why are you then like they were 752 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,440 like, oh, but we want to express ourselves. 753 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:26,840 We want to like have the about us section and the blog. 754 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,240 And I was like, what else are you doing? 755 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:31,520 There's a client, another client I went to see a while ago. 756 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,280 I'll come back to the case study in a minute because it's, it's 757 00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:35,880 hilarious the statistics. There's another client a while 758 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,000 ago and they've got like a, a few collections in there now. 759 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,920 Then they've got the About Us page and then a few more 760 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,720 collections and it's, it's like their core collections, then the 761 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:45,160 About Us and then some of the like kind of seasonal things, 762 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:48,000 exciting stuff like sale or whatever, or gifting. 763 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,880 And they said like, yeah, our About Us page, we're about to 764 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:54,280 embark in quite a big redesigns, new content and stuff. 765 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,080 And I looked in GA 4 because it's like no one goes on it. 766 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,040 I was like, it's the least clicked place. 767 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,080 And the people that do go on it, they click on it from your 768 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,600 emails. When they get an e-mail, they 769 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:06,440 go, oh, let's go. I bought from this company and 770 00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,120 they're talking good game. Like, yeah, I was going to check 771 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:09,640 the about us page. They come in that way, they 772 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,680 don't use the NAV. And then one of the one of the 773 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:14,880 people just went delete it now. And I was like, Yep, that's the 774 00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,120 right, delete it now. And not delete the page, we just 775 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:18,440 delete it from the menu. And that was it. 776 00:39:18,720 --> 00:39:22,440 The case study, though, there was a 10% increase in sales when 777 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,600 a company had a hamburger menu on desktop and mobile and you 778 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,040 click it to open up the NAV to then get through. 779 00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,240 They made it so that the first item of the NAV was visible on 780 00:39:31,240 --> 00:39:34,560 mobile and the whole NAV was visible on desktop. 10% increase 781 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:36,320 in sales just by getting rid of the hamburger. 782 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,480 And it was one of those classic like the CMO doesn't like it. 783 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,480 And it's like, well, the CMO is 10% wrong. 784 00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:43,320 That's a That's a bold statement. 785 00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:46,640 It is. Indeed, when people say they 786 00:39:46,640 --> 00:39:48,600 like stuff, I'm like, give me some data. 787 00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:50,280 Like I'm not listening to give me some data. 788 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,680 And Billett, Carolyn, thank you so much for jumping in and and 789 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,800 also for jumping in last minute. Sherry, so much and AI, it's 790 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:56,800 always a pleasure to talk to you. 791 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:58,280 So, yeah, I really appreciate your time. 792 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,520 Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you so much for having me. 793 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,320 Amazing. And for ever listening, we'll be 794 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:03,920 back. Again on Tuesday's tea break 795 00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,840 talks back again on Friday. We've got some amazing face to 796 00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:08,680 face stuff coming up that I've booked in London. 797 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:10,440 We've done one or two so far but yeah, we've got loads of those 798 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,240 coming out with some really cool brands and and a celebrity. 799 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,000 I don't know which one was a celebrity, yeah, but I'm told 800 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,040 there's a celebrity I'm interviewing in London, which 801 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,800 would be super fun. If you want to go and try out 802 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,560 Yost WWS 15, WWS 15. It's when you would shop for 803 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:26,240 5:15, but WWS 15 is the code to get 50% off. 804 00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:28,240 It's a 14 day free trial. Make sure you go and check that 805 00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:29,080 out. Thanks for tuning in. 806 00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:30,840 Hit subscribe button if you haven't already and I hope you 807 00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:32,720 can do this again next time. See you later guys. 808 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:34,600 Do you ever find that in your warehouse? 809 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:35,720 You have. Dead stock. 810 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,720 You can't sell it, no one wants to buy it, and you can't get a 811 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:40,520 refund on it. Or alternatively, you're missing 812 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,440 inventory in your warehouse that you need, you've got sales 813 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,200 coming in and you're low on stock and you haven't ordered 814 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:47,880 more stock in time. All these things hit profit. 815 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:49,640 And I've been there. I've run my own Shopify store 816 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,200 and had exactly that problem. 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