1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,040 Hello and welcome to another episode, the winning Shopify 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:03,720 podcast and me, your host, Nick Truman. 3 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,040 And I'm so delighted to be in a physical studio. 4 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:07,800 We love doing stuff face to face. 5 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,960 I'm joined today by an absolute legend of CRO, Shopify 6 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:12,840 e-commerce and a whole lot of other things that will come onto 7 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:14,880 in a minute. His name's Adam and he is CEO 8 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:18,200 and Co founder of Blend commerce, the Shopify and CRO 9 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,280 agency, but not much of A CRO. But we'll come onto the Adam. 10 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:22,640 Welcome to the show. Thanks, Adam. 11 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:23,280 Thank you. Very well. 12 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,400 Thank you. Yeah, good to be here. 13 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:24,840 Good. Good. 14 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,440 It was great to have you and we nearly missed each other because 15 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:29,280 we were at the wrong cafe. But we got here in the end. 16 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:33,360 We're going to live straight in. How can a Shopify brand through 17 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,880 CRO increase their revenue per session by 65% in just six 18 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,040 months? Yeah. 19 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,560 I mean, look, it's one of those things ultimately when you look 20 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,200 at the stats of working with CRO that you want to be focusing on 21 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,720 obviously revenue. And I think that's probably one 22 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:50,240 of the biggest challenges with CRO is that there's a 23 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:52,120 misconception. It's just about conversion. 24 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,080 And I think, you know, the, the thing with that particular 25 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,680 client was that there were kind of three things that break it 26 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,440 down is that first of all, we need to understand what the 27 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:02,360 problem was. And the way that we look at that 28 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,720 is something that we call the buy trifecta. 29 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:08,200 So any business regardless against who you are, it's OK. 30 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,000 Well, when customers come in to your physical site or your 31 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:15,000 store, do they buy now, do they buy more and do they buy again? 32 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,720 So ultimately you're looking those core metrics to say which 33 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,160 one of those, the biggest problem identifying that. 34 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:24,920 And then secondly, it is what we often talk about is so going 35 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:27,600 from politics to process. And we'll get onto this later 36 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,600 on. But ultimately when it comes to 37 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,600 growing that level, you have to move beyond discussions and gut 38 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,640 feel and politics in an organization to be able to get 39 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,680 an actual process in. And we use something PECTI to 40 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,560 call PECTI to basically do that, which is kind of a structure 41 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:46,360 prioritisation system. And the third part ultimately is 42 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:48,480 about being dynamic and not static. 43 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,120 And I think look, Nick, you know, you and I are both in the 44 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,680 agency world. We are very good at producing 45 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:56,760 spreadsheets and producing lists of things that just we kind of 46 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:57,960 work through over a longer period. 47 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,640 But ultimately to get those kind of numbers, that has to be a 48 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:05,280 dynamic, not a static process and basically making changes 49 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,759 when you need to and not just plowing on with the same thing 50 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,520 even though the environment or the architecture that business 51 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,360 in is going to change. I. 52 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:15,840 Think one of the biggest challenges and we were we'd get 53 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,960 on NATO off air, didn't worry about this very polite about 54 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:20,960 some of the clients we've worked with over the years and some of 55 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,520 the some of the pushback we've had to what you'd classify CRO 56 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:27,360 or that revenue uplift aim from you've got all this traffic 57 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,080 coming in. How do we get more revenue per 58 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,760 session per user? I love the way you break into 59 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,000 those three areas as well. I think it's really, really key. 60 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,240 We'll come on to the lifetime value one in a minute as well, 61 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,560 because that's I find that always the biggest missed one. 62 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:40,280 Everyone's looking at on site conversion rates. 63 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,240 So we'll come back to that. But I think one of the things 64 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,080 that I found the biggest pushback and this has been 65 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:47,000 pretty the hardest challenge is why it's so memorable. 66 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,440 And I said this to you before we hit record is so many founders. 67 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,280 It's like a baby to them, this business. 68 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,160 So when you come along and say, I want to dye the baby's hair 69 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,160 blonde, I don't, I don't want to be brunette anymore because if 70 00:02:57,160 --> 00:02:59,720 you dye blonde, the baby will do all the things you want a baby 71 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,280 to do better, which I guess is as we're both dads, the nappies 72 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:06,960 will be cleaner and they'll eat more food and they'll throw less 73 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,960 of it across the across you and your kitchen and all these 74 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,120 things. With an e-commerce business, 75 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,360 sometimes you get that uplift. But they say, oh, I just don't 76 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,480 like it. So we're not going to roll it 77 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:15,960 out or there's pushback to rolling it out. 78 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,280 And I mentioned one thing to you and you kind of went, oh, God, 79 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,560 yeah. We've had a few of those talk, 80 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:22,200 talk me through some of those political bits. 81 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,760 If founders are listening to this and going, that's me. 82 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,080 I struggle with that because I built this business and someone 83 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,840 else is telling me do this because it's better and I see 84 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,680 the stats, but I'm, I'm almost blinded. 85 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:33,440 Yeah. How do you how do you overcome 86 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:34,800 some of those things? Yeah, sure. 87 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,080 I mean, look, I think that the common problem is, you know, if 88 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,360 you think about a typical business, there will be always 89 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:43,440 be either ACMO, head of Marx, head of brand or founder who 90 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,760 looks at the site in terms of what does it look like 91 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,800 aesthetically, is it beautiful? And I think, you know, when you 92 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,160 start a business that's really, really important. 93 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,680 But ultimately then when you grow bigger, there will be 94 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,120 people have technical skills or nouns that will know things that 95 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,840 can be done and there will be analytical people who will look 96 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,280 at the stats. And really the political element 97 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,760 comes in as this interplay between those three things. 98 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,840 And a lot of the time, you know, I've actually had lots of 99 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,160 conversations with heads of e-commerce who I've said, look, 100 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,920 we effectively come in as United Nations in your organization to, 101 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:20,399 to try and sell a print. Because a lot of the time, you 102 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:23,320 know, what happens is that the CMO with the the brand founder 103 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:24,920 will say, look, we want to look this way. 104 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:28,080 The web dev team will go like, we can do this, but we don't 105 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,000 think it's right. The CRO part of the analysis 106 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,360 part and whether that's an agency or internally is the 107 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,160 person says, look, guys, in terms of what you want and what 108 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,400 you want, the data shows that your visitors and your customers 109 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,800 need this thing. So actually we might take 110 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,000 elements of what the marketing aspect want, the dev team want 111 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,720 and bring those together. Certain things will fall away, 112 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:51,120 but ultimately I think this is the problem with E com is that 113 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:53,960 we a lot of the time will be focused on what other people are 114 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,120 doing. And it is what do your customers 115 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,520 and what do your visitors tell you that they need and they 116 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:02,920 expect to help you effectively to get that revenue going up. 117 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:05,400 The UN is such a good example of that. 118 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,920 I I've sat in rooms before between like FDMD and like CMO 119 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:12,960 and I'm sitting there going like, sorry, can you explain 120 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:14,440 that? Because I don't think these guys 121 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,680 are hearing you and like, and I'm suddenly sitting there going 122 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,320 like, if I told my wife I'd in counselling days, she'd be like, 123 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,000 you are the least qualified person to be counselling people 124 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,880 on anything. But I, I mean, I, I'm sure you, 125 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,120 you've, you can sympathize this. I've made the mistake of coming 126 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,920 in like a bull in a China shop. Some of them going guys 127 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:31,920 literally just just turn that new theme on. 128 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,800 We, we know it's 5080% better or whatever, or, you know, 65% out 129 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,880 there for revenue per user. That's massive for any business. 130 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:40,240 Yeah. I mean, for you guys listening, 131 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,520 if that doesn't make sense or you've not seen that kind of 132 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:45,040 metric before, that means for every person that comes into the 133 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,960 site, you're getting 65% more revenue per personal on average. 134 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,400 So if one in 10 buys that one person now has spent enough that 135 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,080 all ten of those on average spending 65% more. 136 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,320 It's incredible statistic. And I've even had arguments over 137 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:00,160 that where clients have said the conversion rate is better. 138 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,240 I'm like, yeah, but they're buying like a $5 product now 139 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,800 instead of $100 product. Your average order value is 140 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:07,600 falling away. Or they're buying like, I mean, 141 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:10,440 here's a good example because this, this is a real one with 142 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,360 the lamp shade of this lamp over here that might cost what, 2030 143 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:16,640 lbs for an OK one here in the UK. 144 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,840 But they're not buying the lamp. And they've done some CRO work 145 00:06:19,840 --> 00:06:21,400 and the conversion rates increase because they're driving 146 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:23,600 more people to the lampshades because they're easier purchase. 147 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,400 But they've got no margin on those at all. 148 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,160 They're like an add on product or they're like a lead in 149 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,480 product to buy the lamp and you get problems like that. 150 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:31,800 Yeah. What are three of the biggest 151 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,560 CRO fails like that that you see brands making that are quite 152 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,240 common? Yeah, I mean, I think look the 153 00:06:36,280 --> 00:06:40,880 the first one is, is is diving in on the aesthetics and trying 154 00:06:40,880 --> 00:06:42,600 to get a site to look a particular. 155 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,960 And now a few years back, everyone that came to blend said 156 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,360 can you burn a site looks like gym shark and a bird of it. 157 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,440 Yeah, yeah. And I think look, the the 158 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,080 problem with that isn't look, no, Mac, that the chief brand 159 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,400 officer talks to us a lot. He always talks about the fact 160 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:59,160 that don't copy what they did copy their mindset. 161 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:00,640 Yeah, yeah. And I think that is it's the 162 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,840 process that goes through about saying what customer base do you 163 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:06,880 have and what do they need. So I think that's the first 164 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,680 thing is, is all about the aesthetics. 165 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:10,800 Yeah, all. Sorry, just to add as well, if 166 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,160 if you want to hear more about that. 167 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:13,680 So we've had Richards, you must say Richards. 168 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,160 He was at your meet up actually, yeah, I'll mention his meet up 169 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:17,120 in a minute. He's a legend. 170 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,160 He's a local folk legend here in the UK, but as an as an Adam is, 171 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:21,360 but I saw Richard there recently. 172 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,200 So he's he was the CMO at gym chart and he's been on the show 173 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,840 3 Times Now. So we've had him. 174 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:27,000 Might be he he describes that as well through that growth of 175 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,840 going like it wasn't the fact we made it look this way. 176 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:31,000 It was the mindsets here. Sorry to. 177 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:32,440 Interrupt. But yeah, no, absolutely. 178 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:36,160 But I think this is this is the biggest 1 and it ties back to 179 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,480 that point about the kind of politics of CRO and how you get 180 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,120 things changed. So that's definitely one. 181 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:45,320 I think the other side of it as well is kind of, again, not 182 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,440 really kind of having a metric or a goal or a target that 183 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,400 you're trying to get to. Because I generally start all 184 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,480 the calls with a with a brand new brand that I'm talking and 185 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,880 say, look, what actually is the goal over the next 12 months? 186 00:07:56,280 --> 00:07:59,880 And what I hate is when someone goes, we want to grow, OK, what 187 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:00,600 does that mean? Yeah. 188 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,840 Does that mean 25% revenue? How radical do the changes? 189 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,800 Absolutely, Yeah, yeah. And you know you, I think 190 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:09,680 ultimately you will with CRO you can take different levels of 191 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,360 risk depending on obviously what the long term goal is, but 192 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,880 ultimately not having that clear and saying we want to see some 193 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,080 growth. But the issue there is what do 194 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,040 we believe is growth as an agency, as a or as a CRO 195 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:24,000 specialist and internally what does everyone see as that 196 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,960 growth? So I think that's another big 197 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,920 issue that you have. And I think the other side of it 198 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:34,039 too is that when it comes to thinking about the side, the 199 00:08:34,039 --> 00:08:37,440 problem is, is that a lot of the time the core actual 200 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:41,919 functionality of what you can do on there is often missed. 201 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,320 And it is more about kind of saying ultimately when you are 202 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:50,800 trying to get people to buy more, buy again and effectively 203 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,880 by now you need to think about the easiest possible way to get 204 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,120 them through that site as possible. 205 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,000 And it sounds simple and in reality it's not. 206 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:03,960 But ultimately those are the things that people divert away 207 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,720 from and land themselves in a whole heap of true, like you 208 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,760 mentioned that you know, is obsessing over a 3% conversion 209 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,800 rate. Conversion rate optimization is 210 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,560 the worst term ever for CRO because it is completely not 211 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:19,960 reflective of what you need to do. 212 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,920 Ultimately, like you said that it's about revenue and all the 213 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,600 different factors that come in to bring that revenue up to get 214 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:30,360 you the return that you want. I was thinking recently a client 215 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:32,280 asked me like what would perfect data look like? 216 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,240 And I just basically sat back and looked out the window for a 217 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,560 couple of minutes and just had this dream world, perfect data. 218 00:09:37,560 --> 00:09:40,720 I think to come back to your point, I think perfect data 219 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,880 would be every time someone sees an advert, we've got name, phone 220 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,200 number, address, e-mail, we've got all of that information and 221 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,840 you can see how many times they've engaged. 222 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:52,600 Because imagine if you could have conversion rate per user. 223 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,880 GA4 only knows the user from the user session, not the user. 224 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:00,000 So they visit your site five times on two or three different 225 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,480 devices. You're not going to get that 226 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,440 down as one. It'll probably show as multiple 227 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,480 users in GA 4. And that's limitation you and I 228 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,120 understand and not, not everybody kind of gauges that. 229 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,560 But yeah, you'd have that user data and you'd have conversion 230 00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:14,760 rate per user because let's face it, if I'm buying a bed or a 231 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,560 sofa that is not like a, oh, that's nice, three grand card 232 00:10:18,560 --> 00:10:20,880 details go. It's like, no, no, I'm thinking 233 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,400 about this $3000 sofa. Like I'm really considering this 234 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,560 purchase. So actually, if you're trying to 235 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:28,520 optimize people to buy on first visit, what's your returns rate 236 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,360 going to look like? These guys are like totally 237 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,800 irrational with their money. They're just, and it's a big 238 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:35,000 item. It's going to go in a room. 239 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,120 It's arrived now. I didn't really think it 240 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:38,440 through. Of course it's going to be the 241 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,000 wrong one. Well, we've got 1000 sofas and 242 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,680 you just randomly chose that one in 2 minutes because your 243 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:44,440 metrics are wrong. And I totally agree on the 244 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,080 conversion rate. Are there any little things you 245 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:49,080 go back to the basics? Are there any little things that 246 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,840 and, and we've seen ourselves, Are there any little things that 247 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,520 you find brands, they just tend to miss on that normally the 248 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:57,120 product page, right? They just miss basic information 249 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:58,680 because they're distracted. Yeah. 250 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:01,360 I mean, I think one of the biggest ones that we often see 251 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:07,760 is the the the reference to payment types and not letting 252 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:10,360 people know very early on how they can pay. 253 00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,240 So look, buy now, pay later has become massive. 254 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,520 You know, obviously Apple Pay is really important and ultimately 255 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,960 a lot of the time you'll still see now that when you actually 256 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:21,920 go through a site, you may not still see what those paying 257 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:23,800 options are. Now, if you're listening to in 258 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,680 the US, you will know, look, PayPal is still a massive trust 259 00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:29,600 indicator to whether people will buy or not. 260 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:32,280 People are making decisions before they get to the point 261 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:33,120 where they're going to pay or not. 262 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,720 So if you don't give them that information, that is really key. 263 00:11:36,720 --> 00:11:40,080 And I think ultimately it's it's about saying you need to 264 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,960 minimize the surprises that people have from the PDP through 265 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:48,360 to the actual checkout page, the less surprise you have in terms 266 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:52,680 of payment, shipping, delivery times, all of that. 267 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:54,680 Calculated at checkout? Absolutely. 268 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:57,080 Yeah, that's an unknown. And you see it time and time 269 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,680 again, the drop off, you know ultimately your add to cart rate 270 00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,800 to basic conversion should be about a 50% drop off. 271 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:07,720 As soon as that is bigger than that, it typically is around one 272 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,840 of those issues that there is a shock or a surprise that people 273 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:12,720 weren't expecting when they've been on your PDP. 274 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,440 Does your e-mail marketing suck? Do you wish it converted better 275 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,320 and integrated better with your store? 276 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:20,440 Well, there is a solution we partnered with. 277 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,080 Saguno, who are an e-mail. Platform that is built into 278 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:26,120 Shopify, which means you don't have to leave Shopify to go and 279 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,960 manage your e-mail campaigns. So you can run your marketing at 280 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,400 the same place you run your shop. 281 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,600 To learn more you can claim your free customer analysis and 282 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:38,440 strategy sessions and visit saguno.com/shopify that's S e.g. 283 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:42,800 uno.com/winning Shopify. Saguno is made for merchants, 284 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,000 not marketers. I, I found so many things like 285 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,200 that on client sites, like again, big item and you're like, 286 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:51,120 where are the dimensions? They're like, oh, they're right 287 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:52,480 there. And it's like, no, they're not. 288 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,120 You have to Scroll down, find like a load of tabs, click on 289 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:57,920 the specifications 1. I mean, we, we did a test for 290 00:12:57,920 --> 00:12:59,760 the client. We're nowhere near as 291 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,600 sophisticated as you guys, but we just had a theory that we 292 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,240 looked on clarity to check our theory theory on their Microsoft 293 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:08,200 clarity. And everyone was like the, the 294 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,040 people that did buy were clicking on these tabs. 295 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,120 So we were like, well, let's kill the tabs and just have the 296 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,560 information down the page. So as you're scrolling on mobile 297 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,120 and the mobile one that showed was a minimized version of the 298 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,480 text. So it was like 3 or 4 words per 299 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:22,280 bullet. And on desktop it was like 300 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,720 longer or you could put sub bullets or even little 301 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,080 paragraphs but with bits of bold text to highlights that one. 302 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,560 We did that and we saw an uplift because it was again, large item 303 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,120 you're thinking of purchasing or it was like a really expensive 304 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:35,480 shoe or something. I want to know all the details 305 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,000 when you say it's size A this is a £500 shoe or pair of shoes. 306 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,520 You need to buy one, but it depends who you are. 307 00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,000 But this is a £500 shoe. So actually I need to know the 308 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,960 exact what size 8 means to you. It's actually having a like 309 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,440 visible on the page, like a guide on how to measure your 310 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:53,800 foot. And also like they did, they did 311 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,040 them in wide, regular or thin feet. 312 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,400 It's super useful. And then like if you had an 313 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,240 abnormality, you could add that as a thing saying like because 314 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,840 they were custom made, so they would make the shoe slightly 315 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,640 more custom to you. You could even draw it around 316 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,000 your foot on a piece of paper and send it in. 317 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:08,880 It'll make you a shoe. But I think that you know the, 318 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:11,320 the point you make there as well is all of these answers are 319 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:15,200 actually hidden in your data. Now we've got a a potato crisp 320 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,080 or or chip company worth in the US and what we saw with them is 321 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,400 that their PDP was not converting. 322 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,240 And what we looked at is actually the on site search 323 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,040 data. Now what you saw from the on 324 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,680 site search data is that people were putting in the name of the 325 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:30,360 product and then writing ingredients. 326 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:33,920 And what that indicated to us is that actually finding in that 327 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:36,280 block of text the ingredients information was very difficult. 328 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,080 So we actually implemented here sort of accordion menus to 329 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,280 effectively section other information. 330 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,760 As a result of doing that, conversion went up 35%. 331 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,920 So it's the information that you need is there from how your 332 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:52,120 customers use it. You just need to be able to get 333 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:55,040 into that to then understand what it exactly is that you need 334 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,200 to do on the site. I love that. 335 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:58,680 You've just reminded me of something. 336 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:01,240 We do a lot with e-commerce brands when they've got probably 337 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,360 ski range of 500 plus. Once you reach 2 or 3000, it's 338 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:05,640 like a, why are we not doing this? 339 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,600 What we do from an SEO point of view is your normal NAV or the 340 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,360 burger menu, we call it with three lines burger menu, it pops 341 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,520 out mobile. The NAV should be like, just 342 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,640 what is the product, right? It's like you go into men's and 343 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:17,000 women's and into clothing, etcetera. 344 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,240 So clothing's a great example of this. 345 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,320 But then we have a whole other set of collections and you can 346 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,080 shop other ways. So we have a collection of this 347 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,440 by size. So you're like, right, I'm, I'm 348 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:28,880 delighted to have an extra small nail here in the UK, which is 349 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:31,880 like XXXS in the US, which I'm delighted to go shopping. 350 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,480 Next week. In, in Kansas. 351 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:36,360 And in fact, when this goes out, I'll probably be home, 352 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:38,120 unfortunately. But yeah, it's stuff like that 353 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,320 where you're like, you can shop by that or like if you're a 354 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,760 health fanatic, as soon as it's a health product, what they 355 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,400 normally do is go like, well, we're a health shop. 356 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:45,880 So you know, so like you can go in here. 357 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,120 And by the way, this is vegan. But actually, if there's a 358 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,440 whole, if your whole collection structure, you go in and 359 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,080 everything's already filtered by vegan, that's cool. 360 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:55,360 But then I've been on a massive health kick. 361 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:57,880 So the calories and stuff, the protein and stuff and the sugar 362 00:15:57,880 --> 00:15:59,280 and stuff. I've been looking at these. 363 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:01,520 You're exactly right. I bought I love chocolate 364 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,440 raisins, but I found out I'm milk intolerant now, but so I 365 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,560 now to get dark chocolate ones which actually tastes better. 366 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:09,800 So I bought some on Amazon. But on Amazon, if you've ever 367 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,800 tried to look at the that health information to find out the 368 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:14,840 calories, the sugar, it's a nightmare. 369 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:16,440 Yeah. So I then started searching 370 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,960 vegan chocolate raisins and they were hardly any coming up on 371 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,920 Amazon. I was like, I just, I want them 372 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:22,600 tomorrow, right? Like that's why I'm on Amazon. 373 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:23,600 But I think you're absolutely right. 374 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:27,480 Just getting those basic things sort of set up and visible on 375 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,400 the page. I think half of it is having the 376 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,440 information, isn't it? And half is making it clearly 377 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:32,440 visible. Yeah. 378 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,760 How important do you find the UX design of the page is? 379 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,680 Or is it actually the UX is secondary to just have the 380 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,400 information? No, it's very important. 381 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,520 And I think the way I would sort of think about it is, is that 382 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,040 think about two words, sign posting and hand holding. 383 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:50,760 Because ultimately what your site, what your UX need to do do 384 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:54,200 is to eloquently signpost people to the right products. 385 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,000 And like you gave that example there, you were going to have 386 00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,520 some customers who are very well informed and others who are 387 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,680 completely not informed at all. So having things like, for 388 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:07,079 example, an excellent filtering system is very, very important 389 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:09,760 because for those people that are more informed, like you're 390 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,040 in that situation, you're going to use that and get to the 391 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:12,760 product. Yeah, yeah. 392 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,480 Equally, I think you know, when it comes to the actual design of 393 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:20,319 a page, the other important thing is to use things like heat 394 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:22,760 maps because ultimately again, that will show you where the 395 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,200 interest is and you can, if you've got a decent over 396 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,120 traffic, you can very quickly see what it is that is actually 397 00:17:29,120 --> 00:17:32,920 turn the needle for you. So again moving past that gut 398 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,800 feel, we think we should do XYZ or you know our competitors this 399 00:17:37,360 --> 00:17:40,840 look at what your customers are showing you on site and then 400 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:43,560 make it changes on new exit on based on that. 401 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:45,600 Awesome. Yeah, I absolutely love that. 402 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:47,800 And I think I mean, one of the tests I was telling you about 403 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:49,880 earlier that we just simplified the page, we took all the 404 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,680 nonsense out where they tried to over justify and explain it. 405 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,720 The the product wasn't expensive enough. 406 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,120 It was too, it was too low priced to be quick and easy to 407 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,200 buy. If it was more luxury, then 408 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:02,960 yeah, more more information that tends we we found that tends to 409 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,800 be the trend, but there's always bucks to that. 410 00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:08,680 In your opinion, what brands are crushing it on CRI? 411 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,440 Who's like absolutely winning at this? 412 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,480 I mean, look, I would love to say every single blank client of 413 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,800 course, but yeah, I can't but one. 414 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,960 Once over a year. Is that I think the the one 415 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,160 brand that I and again, look, we we don't work with them, but I 416 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:24,680 can see what they're doing is a brand called Stubborn Co. 417 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,800 So yeah. So they're kind of a. 418 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,320 Ground in their bags and. Yeah, me too. 419 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,520 And that's why I've sort of trapped them a little bit. 420 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,480 But what sibling Co do is they have backpacks for anyone who is 421 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,920 from commuting to their office every day through to people that 422 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,280 are maybe climbing Mount Caranjaro. 423 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:43,440 Now every single person will have a different needle 424 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,520 specification. What you see on their site is 2 425 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,600 main things. One is that they have invested 426 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,720 very heavily in their own site search, so that first of all 427 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,760 tailors to those different types of customers coming in. 428 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:01,600 And the second thing is I think they have about maybe 11 or 12 429 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:05,520 filters and they go up and down on their search and it ranges 430 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:10,960 from things like, you know, expedition type Letrage kit that 431 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,040 you're taking. So all of these things, they're 432 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,360 constantly changed because you see it quite regularly when 433 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,080 you're on the site. So I think for me, that's a real 434 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,960 indication that they're saying, right, we need to make sure that 435 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,720 when again, our demographic is changing, that actually we give 436 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:28,840 them different things. And I think if you think about a 437 00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:32,840 lot of the brands that you were talking about a phone case brand 438 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:35,080 here in the UK earlier on. And I think that with them, 439 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,840 their demographic has changed from being a typical sort of you 440 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:43,640 know 25 to 30 year old customer to now maybe a 40 to 45 year old 441 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,880 customer. So the need of what they are 442 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,800 doing on the site now is very different to as it was before. 443 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:51,760 And that's the thing for me about kind of being dynamic and 444 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,080 not static is that the same thing is not continued to work 445 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,360 again, which is why you kind of need to look at CRO as kind of 446 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,520 an ongoing thing then just OK, well look, we're going to 447 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,040 optimize the site, leave it and then come back to again as with 448 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:09,800 the other. 4 pillars, you know, sort of CROSEOPPC and emo 449 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,400 marketing for me, those are the four key ingredients you need to 450 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,000 work together consistently to keep that revenue obviously 451 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,960 going up and and maintain the level that you had. 452 00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,800 Yeah, yeah, I did. First thing I did my stubbling 453 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,680 coat bag, when it said it was waterproof, I filled it with 454 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,600 newspaper and got the jet hose out the jet wash and it took a 455 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,840 while to dry. The outside opened it totally 456 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:28,880 dry. Incredible. 457 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:30,880 I think that the amazing with stubbling coat from a marketing 458 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:34,040 perspective is there are so many now I've got one, There are so 459 00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,960 many other bags that that look pretty similar that I see on the 460 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:39,920 tube and everywhere else when I'm running around London or 461 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,240 anywhere I go in the world, people have similar bags to that 462 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,120 roll top. They're made of the same like 463 00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:46,360 it, it looks like the side of a truck, right? 464 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:48,320 You know that you know the kind of whatever it's called, the 465 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:49,920 stuff they put it looks like that. 466 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,040 And everyone's got these kind of like quite industrial bags, but 467 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,080 they work like someone in a suit, it works. 468 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,800 Someone wearing like a scruffy hoodie covered in paint, it 469 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,960 works. Someone climbing Kilimanjaro, it 470 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,400 works, but Stubble and Co is the only brand I could probably 471 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:04,680 mention. And I think you're absolutely 472 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,080 right in the way that they've, they've completely just nailed 473 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,800 that space. Let's talk about LTV. 474 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,400 Yes, I was not expecting you talking on CRO today to wear 475 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:16,200 LTV, but as soon as you did, I was like, that makes so much 476 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,000 sense. Where do you guys get involved 477 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:21,920 in the LTV bit and where can brands improve LTV from acro 478 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:23,320 perspective? No, it's a good. 479 00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:26,080 So we have a lot of brands that have subscriptions. 480 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:31,240 So obviously conversion really is a pretty poor metric in terms 481 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,200 looking at the overall health of the business because when it 482 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:38,560 comes to subscription, you need to be looking a lot more widely 483 00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:41,480 than you would alternatively, because ultimately your revenue 484 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,960 is dependent upon your churn is dependent upon additional 485 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,840 purchase with those with those subscriptions that you have. 486 00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:52,200 And I think ultimately for us, that's kind of why we boil it 487 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,320 down to a North Star metric of, of revenue possession, because 488 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,040 ultimately what that does that can figure in all of the 489 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,520 different metrics that are there that we, yes, we need to focus 490 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,840 on from that bio trifecta. But the revenue possession and 491 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:09,080 ultimately LTV gives us a view of the actual health of that 492 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,040 business both in the short and the long run. 493 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:15,000 Now LTV can be calculated in terms of actual LTV and 494 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,040 obviously future LTV. And I think, you know, 495 00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:22,080 importantly, it's kind of a good idea to have an eye on both 496 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:28,320 because you need that future to effectively understand what 497 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,840 you're going to need to do. But again, knowing the true 498 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,480 value of a customer from day dot is important, especially 499 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,320 obviously you know in the world that you're involved with our 500 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,080 column. The paid side, SEO side is that 501 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,240 when we are paying to bring traffic in, what is the value of 502 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,240 it? The conversion rate is a lie. 503 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,200 Yeah, yeah, AOV at that time. Refective is a lie. 504 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:49,880 It's a here and now metric. LTV is OK. 505 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,920 What is the value of that customer, and ultimately, what 506 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,960 is the value of the business? I think from a paid perspective, 507 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,880 when we're driving traffic in, it costs so much per click from 508 00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:00,440 any, any channel now, not just Google. 509 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,360 But Meta costs a fortune. TikTok is getting expensive 510 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,160 already. People have given up on 511 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,160 Pinterest for lots of reasons, which kind of creates 512 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,960 opportunity on Pinterest, but people have a lot people have 513 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,760 given up on it. And because you're paying so 514 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,560 much to acquire the customer if your LTV, then it's like 1.3 515 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:19,480 orders per customer. The business is in such risk and 516 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:22,640 the credit card being expired one day and Google turning off 517 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,160 while the CEO is like at the base of Kilimanjaro with a 518 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,920 Stublin Co bag. But I think the the biggest 519 00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:32,360 challenge we find is convincing CFOs or FDS, the head of finance 520 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:35,880 in a business, convincing them that look, your team needs to be 521 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:40,600 50% tasks that are new customers like we are not 90 or 25% and 522 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,240 50% tasked on LTV. You very kindly invited me to a 523 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,720 dinner that almost killed me because it was quite spicy. 524 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,320 It was an African spice house. I don't think you weren't there 525 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,960 that night, but one of the guys there I said, like, what's the 526 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:54,800 biggest challenge you're seeing with brands and another agency? 527 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,160 And he said none of them, none of them use LTV as a metric. 528 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,400 And I did an episode on it like the next week, one of my Tuesday 529 00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,400 talks, I was like, it's so true. I don't hear brands go our Lt. 530 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,520 VS like 3.4 orders or however you want to measure it. 531 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,920 It could be like $500 per customer per year. 532 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:12,960 There's different ways to measure, but they didn't have it 533 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,280 as a target. Now bringing kind of 534 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:19,000 optimization and AB testing and other stuff into that and saying 535 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,480 what what we do? What should we do differently? 536 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:24,960 What could we do differently? Why are the if it's 1.2 orders 537 00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:27,640 per customer, why are on average 20% of our customers buying a 538 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,960 second time? What what's triggering that 539 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,320 purchase? Like you mentioned e-mail, Is it 540 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,600 e-mail? Should it be WhatsApp? 541 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:35,600 Should it be SMS? Is it just the products? 542 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,200 Awesome. Is it that something arrives in 543 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,000 the products like you get a stubbling Co bag. 544 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,480 Imagine if you opened it and there's a packet of stubling Co 545 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,560 themed suites that were like, you know, the glucose most 546 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:46,440 things you take. Yeah, give give the people some 547 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:47,960 of that and be like, take this to the bottom of the mountain. 548 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,600 You'll get to the mountain a lot faster. 549 00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:51,520 And it's from our sister company that we own. 550 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,480 That's a sport and sports science, SIS, sport and science 551 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:56,320 type thing. There's some really good add-ons 552 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:57,160 like that, aren't there? Like. 553 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:58,840 Absolutely. I think where you guys come in, 554 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,360 it goes so much further than just like we, we, we redesigned 555 00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:04,440 the PDP three times and that's the winner. 556 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,680 Yeah. But I think the LTV base is so 557 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,240 overlooked, isn't it by brands? No, it is and I think you look 558 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,920 you get a lot of these kind of brand partnerships for now. 559 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,040 I think part of that ultimately it is a very clever LTV play 560 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,080 because I think the the brands that very really do well is that 561 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,200 their product forms part of the process. 562 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,440 And there's actually a couple of juice companies use quite well. 563 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,960 Is that if you, for example, go on like a juice diet or if you 564 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,560 if just a kind of more general type, you know, juice drink, you 565 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,120 buy a couple of them now will kind of say, look, you know, 566 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,720 before you get your box, you need to number one, do a cleanse 567 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,360 #2 and then basically a process. The last part of the price is 568 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:44,200 that juice. So it feels like actually a 569 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,040 bigger process that you're working through with that 570 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,320 product than just actually the standard product itself. 571 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,440 So having that sort of mindset of saying, look, with my 572 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,960 product, what is the wider thing that what effective is jobs to 573 00:25:55,960 --> 00:26:00,360 be done with this product? Use your marketing that comes 574 00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:04,400 beyond what you're doing to fit into that to then obviously make 575 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,080 it more of a regular rhythm, something that's part of the 576 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,160 bigger process that then kind of drives it more from a longer 577 00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:11,800 term of of being able to maintain that. 578 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,520 Yeah. And one of our mutual friends I 579 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,360 had on the show recently, Amy from Hollywood Browser and she, 580 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,640 she was telling us that actually they're looking at those 581 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:23,040 associated products right now. But also she said the number one 582 00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,360 reason people don't like the product. 583 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,360 So they do get a return. And she said it's single digit 584 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,880 percentage returns now, which is, which is incredible as a, as 585 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,280 a stat that she's got. One of the reasons that that's 586 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:33,880 happened is when the between them ordering the product and 587 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,760 the product arriving. She described what I, I've been, 588 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,520 I've been thinking about this since I've recorded with her, 589 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,000 which was actually this morning from where recording maybe a few 590 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,720 weeks before this. I've been thinking about it 591 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:44,720 since recording this morning. And like there, there's a 592 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,200 beautiful window there where actually everybody's fighting to 593 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,440 do next day delivery. Like gym shark is a good 594 00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:52,360 example. They have a loading bar up to 595 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:54,480 free delivery, then they have another loading bar up to next 596 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:55,560 day. It's gamified. 597 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:57,880 It's really simple. It's example plays a lot because 598 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,880 it's so easy to understand, but actually that then means that 599 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,560 the slower the delivery is, the more time you've got to educate 600 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:06,600 the customer on here's how to get the most out of the product 601 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,920 that's on its way. And surely that then starts 602 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,920 there because you're going to her product is a sharp blade. 603 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:13,720 It's totally safe. I've literally got one in my bag 604 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:15,080 totally safe. It's a sharp blade. 605 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,760 So you're going to need another one at some point because also 606 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,240 it it will get wet because it's in the bathroom and you use it 607 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:21,120 on your face. And so you're going to need a 608 00:27:21,120 --> 00:27:23,040 replacement at some point. You're much more likely to go 609 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,360 back to her if you're educated again, this blade's going to 610 00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:28,080 last you a month or six months. I don't know if she does that, 611 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,640 but all those things like just there's a beautiful little 612 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,520 window there to educate people and then once normally it's once 613 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,360 it's arrived, you kind of 30 days later the brand goes, Oh 614 00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:39,360 yeah, remember that product you bought like do it enough one and 615 00:27:39,360 --> 00:27:41,600 you're like, Nah, not really. I didn't I didn't really enjoy 616 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:42,600 it. I didn't get best use, but they 617 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,280 would if you spent that that time educating and 618 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,400 communicating. Absolutely. 619 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:48,560 Do you guys get involved in that process through e-mail and 620 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:50,680 things and testing different emails, different campaigns to? 621 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,360 Customers, I mean, we, we don't do e-mail door anymore, but 622 00:27:53,360 --> 00:27:54,760 that's one of the things there with us. 623 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,360 And it's, you know, I, I often talk about this kind of 624 00:27:57,360 --> 00:28:00,440 scenario, those four different areas of econ And, and I always 625 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,440 tell you a story about like if you had a new puppy and you 626 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,560 said, look, in terms of the first two weeks, all I'm going 627 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,680 to do is give it water. I'm not going to feed it. 628 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:09,440 I'm not going to walk it, I'm not going to stroke it. 629 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,640 And that dog is not going to be looking that great. 630 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,280 Have an angry dog. Oh, you're an angry dog. 631 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,640 And it's kind of the same with the business in the sense that 632 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:17,920 you got to think of all those things. 633 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,400 But the point you make in there about kind of like that, that 634 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,480 that period in between, again thinking about it as a process 635 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:26,840 of education is really important. 636 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,360 Now we have a lot of vitamin supplement brands that we're 637 00:28:29,360 --> 00:28:31,440 aware of. Now, 9 times out of time, 638 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,600 vitamin supplement brands, there is usually a three month window 639 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,720 to allow you to assess about whether it's going to be 640 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,760 affected or not. Yost have just. 641 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,680 Launched something that is absolutely game changing. 642 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,960 The new AI Brand Insights tool is now in beta, and it's built 643 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,960 to help you track your brand's visibility, sentiment, and 644 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,120 credibility across AI platforms like ChatGPT. 645 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,800 As search expands from Google to AI answers, this tool gives you 646 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,720 a clearview of how your brand shows up, combining sentiment, 647 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,360 visibility, and mentions. It's designed for marketers who 648 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,200 want enterprise level insight without the enterprise price 649 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,920 less than $400.00 per year. And here's the best bit. 650 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,800 Yost Black Friday sale is now on, so starting November 27th 651 00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,960 you'll get a 30% discount off all annual plans, including the 652 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,160 new Yost SEO AI My Plus. Head to Yost. 653 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,760 Dot com to learn more and grab your discount. 654 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,640 Brands that don't say that on the site and equally don't 655 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,800 communicate that through their marketing always will have a 656 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,400 high churn rate. Now there's a brand in the UK 657 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,360 called El Sera who I know. So on a personal level, they do 658 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,360 a great job and what they do is actually give to their customers 659 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:40,880 a journal and the journal is 3 months. 660 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:45,400 And what that does is it allows them to record and also get tips 661 00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:48,680 within that period on top of the information that comes through 662 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,200 my e-mail. So that then is it's kind of 663 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:54,360 giving you that runway that you need as a brand to say you need 664 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,960 to be waiting. This is normal thing to expect. 665 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,560 And then at that point then you then tend to see either, yes, of 666 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,000 course it's not going to work for everyone, but you've been, 667 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,840 you've been very honest about from the start, but the people 668 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,880 that doesn't work for does work for, you've coached them through 669 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,160 the process. And we are awful in e-commerce, 670 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,600 something saying like you say, here's a product, give us a 671 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,360 review. Yeah, well, what am I reviewing? 672 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,160 And then buy. Yeah, exactly. 673 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,880 I think, I think that whole process is so important. 674 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,800 And one of the things I think brands completely miss out with 675 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,880 the conversation. And we, we've, I mean, Saguna is 676 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,320 one of our sponsors, an e-mail platform for for Shopify. 677 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:30,400 And I don't mind plugging them because most of our clients use 678 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:32,520 them now and they are awesome. Like they actually physically 679 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,280 help you. It's not just tech like you 680 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,040 actually get someone that that supports you through e-mail, but 681 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,240 one of the things they talk about a lot is how most emails 682 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,000 that go out are either this like glossy newsletter going like 683 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,440 hey, look what we were doing in the store the other day like 684 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:46,480 that. We've done this in the warehouse 685 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,440 and it's like, OK, like as a customer, like what? 686 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,240 There's nothing in there for me. Or it's like here are some 687 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,000 offers and actually you need to find this balance between 688 00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:59,320 bringing them on that community LED journey whilst also pushing 689 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,720 products in there. If it's on, I think supplements 690 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:04,680 and health related stuff is great because it is on a 691 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,440 subscription basis. The other thing I, I just 692 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,240 thought of when you were saying about that it could take three 693 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,600 months to see a result or see if it is going to work or if it's 694 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,480 not For me. Saying that upfront also has 695 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:18,480 another CRO related opportunity of average order value saying 696 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,080 why don't you just buy three months now? 697 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,560 Or actually why don't you purchase three months, But we'll 698 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:25,240 send them out at each month if there's a shelf life or there's 699 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,880 loads of opportunities now to talk about 3 months is the goal. 700 00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:30,360 So like if you're just going to buy one month today, there's 701 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:32,280 kind of no point. But we know you're serious 702 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:34,920 because you are looking at I mean, you chat from Jude, which 703 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,880 I thought was amazing brand one of your panels recently. 704 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,840 And I love what he was saying about about the fact that number 705 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,960 one reason people are unhappy because he was head of retention 706 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:43,640 at this. That's right. 707 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:46,360 Number one, people number one reason they're unhappy is they 708 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:48,200 tried it, it didn't work. And they're like, of course not, 709 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,000 it's only been two weeks. Like, you know, it takes a time 710 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:54,000 for your body to adjust to this new supplement you're taking. 711 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,400 But all of this relies quite heavily on UX, whether it's on 712 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,680 the e-mail, it's on the site, what brands in your experience, 713 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,480 your opinion, crushing it with UX, which have a really good 714 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,720 user experience to the site through e-mail, right through 715 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:06,400 the? Yeah. 716 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,080 I mean, look, I think the there's there's two that sick 717 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:10,320 and two are very, very different. 718 00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:15,520 Now I'm going to say Amazon, OK, But and the reason I want to say 719 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,360 Amazon is because what Amazon have the ability to do is that 720 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,600 they know very clearly what the intent is when people come to 721 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,600 the site, what the buying drivers are for that person and 722 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,520 giving them all that information in the right place. 723 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,320 Now, Amazon is not a particularly beautiful site 724 00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:35,040 going back to my point at the start of aesthetics, but that's 725 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,400 a marketplace. I'll describe it. 726 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,840 It's not Brandy. Absolutely. 727 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,840 And you know, I think for me that's why it works so well 728 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,960 because they are signposting, directing people to the thing 729 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,200 that they need at that point in time. 730 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:48,680 That's definitely one. The other one that I think does 731 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:50,800 it very, very well is Doctor Squatch. 732 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,240 So kind of the soap company in that what they do is that they 733 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:59,800 very carefully make sure that their marketing message is very 734 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,040 much aligned with obviously what's happening on site. 735 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,680 And that kind of fun but useful experience that you've got on 736 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:09,800 the site is completely matched within their e-mail marketing. 737 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,800 So they do that process, like I mentioned before, of talk about 738 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,880 being a process, telling you when to expect it, how to use it 739 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,640 for the first time, how much to use, where to use it, all these 740 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:20,880 things. But they do it in this kind of 741 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,040 almost sort of like sort of slapstick comedy way that really 742 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,760 buys into that customer which generally is that kind of male 743 00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:33,480 30 to 45 year old guy who basically is a bit embarrassed 744 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:35,120 about Dominic self room right now. 745 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,440 Absolutely yeah the man energy. But for me they do it very well 746 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,960 and obviously I know if you dot squatching ex employees and CRO 747 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,120 is really, really important to them and understanding the data 748 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,680 behind it. What may look like a very fun 749 00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,720 brand on the outside, there is actually a lot of thinking that 750 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:55,040 goes into that business and how they operate. 751 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,000 That's one thing I love about meeting so many businesses, 752 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,440 whether it's through podcasts, shows we go to with some of your 753 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,840 events. It's amazing just to see how 754 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,360 they will prioritise like different things and the ones 755 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,320 that are scaling, the ones that have worked out the thing to 756 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,800 prioritise and the other ones that have either not worked it 757 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,560 out yet or they're just not going to work it out eventually. 758 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:13,880 And I think like Jude for example, is like it's a 759 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,159 supplement, you take it a lot, it deals with the medical issue. 760 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,560 So actually it needs to be that retention, you know, that 761 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,280 retained journey. It has to be subscription 762 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,360 focused, hence why they've got someone who's got the word 763 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,679 retention in his job title. I would love to see a sofa 764 00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:30,080 company or a mattress company or something is like a, you buy it 765 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:31,719 every 5 to 10 years sort of thing. 766 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,159 Get a retention person involved in that. 767 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,239 I mean I even bought a new set of scales recently as part of my 768 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,159 new year health kit, which for the first time in 35 years is 769 00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,880 actually worked. Hurrah, thank you very much. 770 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:46,800 But the, the thing I've bought now is a Withings scale. 771 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,000 So you stand on it barefoot and it scans your body and tells you 772 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,520 like your body fat and your muscle. 773 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:54,440 And it's very depressing still, but we're making progress. 774 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,240 But they also sell like they sell AI think they sell a ring. 775 00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,440 They sell a watch that would replace my Apple Watch and 776 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:01,160 they're slowly up selling that to me. 777 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:03,240 But through the fact that I'm using the Withings app that 778 00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,200 sends me a notification and it said, would you like me to turn 779 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,120 on daily notifications to remind you? 780 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,240 Because it's we're all like clockwork, right? 781 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,120 We're body clocks. We get up at the same time you 782 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,000 have your shower and then when it weigh yourself in the morning 783 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,480 first thing, and I often do that. 784 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,320 So it now reminds me if it gets to like 8 in the morning, I 785 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:19,840 haven't done it, annoyingly I've already left the house at that 786 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,160 point, but it will remind me to do that. 787 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,880 So we're having this relationship and then it says 788 00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:25,520 congratulations, this week you've achieved this. 789 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,520 And on the scales itself, it tells me the weather, the air 790 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,200 quality and after it's finished weighing me and it's quite nice 791 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:32,880 going, the sun is going to come out today. 792 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,720 Like whilst looking at the scales, I feel like I'm building 793 00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:37,080 a relationship with this scales. Absolutely. 794 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:39,320 So at some point they will grind me down. 795 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,960 When I next need the next Apple Watch, Apple, I say need. 796 00:35:42,720 --> 00:35:46,200 I'll consider that for sure. But I've met lots of, I haven't 797 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:47,960 met them, but I've met lots of amazing brands. 798 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:50,080 Like June, I met Amy at one of your events who's been on the 799 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,720 show as well. Tell us more about, I mean, 800 00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,120 literally, I should have said this at the start. 801 00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:55,720 I'm literally sitting in front of a folk legend. 802 00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:58,360 Like when Adam reached out and was like, what do you come in 803 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,240 the podcast? We get involved in Econ Collab 804 00:36:00,240 --> 00:36:01,960 Club. Tell us more about Econ Collab 805 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:02,720 Club. And if you because you're 806 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:04,520 involved in a few other things, that's why I've heard clubhouse 807 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:05,920 and other keywords sort of popping up. 808 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:09,840 Yeah, Xiaomi, look, we about four years ago, we decided that 809 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:14,200 we didn't like e-commerce events because they were created one we 810 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,080 create 1. And it was like, you know, we, 811 00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:18,840 we were bored of hotel bars, we were bored of chicken and white 812 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,160 wine sauce dinners. And we sell the walls. 813 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:24,280 We'll do is we'll, we'll horror at a movie theater 8:00 in the 814 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,360 morning and we'll invite all the people in e-commerce that we 815 00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,320 know. And it's kind of grown over 4 816 00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,360 years to be now. So 180 people every month. 817 00:36:32,720 --> 00:36:36,160 We have brands coming to kind of share war stories, the winds, 818 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,880 the highs, the lows and obviously what it's like, but 819 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,520 just kind of give practical advice and show things that 820 00:36:41,520 --> 00:36:43,080 they've done and they've experienced. 821 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,880 And it's, yeah, we, we also, we do it in London once a month. 822 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,040 We've done in New York and Toronto, Berlin, all over the 823 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,480 place. And yeah, it's, it's a really 824 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,400 fun outlet for me, obviously being quite a data heavy world 825 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,080 of CRO, it's a nice outlet. But again, it's been fantastic 826 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:02,000 to be part of a really big community of people across the 827 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:02,560 world now. So. 828 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,080 Yeah. I think when I first entered the 829 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:06,800 marketing world, I was so shocked by how boring everyone 830 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,600 was. And I was, I was literally 831 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:11,000 walking around going like you're a web developer and it's like 832 00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,800 the classic like long hair coders. 833 00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,400 Like, I mean, I've been in the industry nearly 20 years now, 834 00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:17,080 but I was just, it was a lot of that. 835 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:19,440 And I was like, but what you're creating, I mean, like I 836 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,120 literally was meeting people from like TK Maxx, A Yankee 837 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:26,240 Candle, the Tate Modern Museum in London and meeting their web 838 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:28,120 guys. And I'm like, you are so like 839 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,240 just introverted and quiet and so, but what you're creating is 840 00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:35,360 so loud and like so fun and like, there's such a disconnect 841 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:36,880 here. I mean, hence hence why I got 842 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:38,720 into podcasting anyway. I mean, we, we bought the 843 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:40,120 podcast. Caroline used to run it for me, 844 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:42,360 a good friend of mine. But I was like, Caroline is 845 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,240 like, she, you know, she's Australian, She's larger than 846 00:37:44,240 --> 00:37:45,280 life. And I was like, this is great. 847 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,240 But I love what you guys do. And it's, I mean, it's in 848 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,040 Leicester Square as well. You've just nailed every point. 849 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,280 You rock up in Leicester Square at like 5:00 to 8:00 in the 850 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,240 morning. And there's the Econ Co Lab club 851 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:57,200 on the main ODS. I mean, it literally is like Tom 852 00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:58,640 Cruise red carpet zone, isn't it? 853 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:00,080 When there's a big movie premiere, that's. 854 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,680 Where it happens exactly the same place it's. 855 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,040 Absolutely awesome. So but I mean, thank you so much 856 00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,000 for joining us today, Adam. Pleasure, Nick, How can we reach 857 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:07,760 out to you if they want your help, if they want to talk to 858 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:09,280 you guys are fully global, aren't you? 859 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:10,400 Like how can people get in touch? 860 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,440 Yeah, absolutely. So if you want to find me on 861 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:16,600 LinkedIn, it's Adam, PSPA, RCA, go ahead and go along to 862 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,200 blencommerce.com. And if you are thinking about 863 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:22,920 sort of that buy now, buy more, buy again, there's a really 864 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:25,120 great tool called the Blend benchmarking tool. 865 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,920 And I think that we're going to share that in the links. 866 00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,080 Yeah, we'll put that in the link. 867 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,720 So blencommerce.com/winning with Shopify there, you'll be able to 868 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:35,800 find out where you are in terms of that buy trifecta and maybe 869 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,160 get a few insights about what you can do on the site to get 870 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,000 LTV up and revenue possession up. 871 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:41,680 Absolutely. And if you want to catch me, is 872 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,120 it September and November isn't it? 873 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,440 It'll be on one of Adam's panels if you do come to any of his 874 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,400 things, by the way, like there's no swear filter. 875 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,480 It doesn't seem to work live. And it's but it's, again, it's 876 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,080 disruptive. It's hilarious like that. 877 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:57,080 The PC meetups of like, here's a senior CMO talking about the how 878 00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:58,760 we achieve the 1% conversion rate. 879 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,600 These guys are like, F that. And it's it's with a, with a 880 00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:04,080 inflatable hammer going around. If people try and sell, it's 881 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,600 absolutely brilliant. I feel like I've been very well 882 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:06,400 behaved today. Oh, you've been. 883 00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:08,600 Amazing. I think I've sworn more than you 884 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:10,440 before we hit the record button, but thank you so much for 885 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:11,720 joining us and everyone listening at home. 886 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:13,280 If you haven't already, hit subscribe button. 887 00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:15,440 Join our newsletter as well. We're going to, we'll be 888 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,320 launching Growth Vault in September, which is super 889 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,120 exciting. So you can also go on the Growth 890 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,120 Vault page on wwspodcast.com or if you go to 891 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,720 winningwithshopify.com, it does forward. 892 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:26,480 But Shopify wouldn't let us have the word Shopify in our domain. 893 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:28,920 And I keep plugging that hoping they listen to this one day and 894 00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,120 change the rules for us. And we're launching Growth Fight 895 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,240 in September as well. And yeah, if you want to get in 896 00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:34,520 touch hello at Winning with shopify.com. 897 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,200 Thanks for joining us. Hope you can join us again soon. 898 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,720 This episode of Winning with Shopify is brought to you by Tax 899 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:40,440 Cloud. It's the busiest time of year 900 00:39:40,440 --> 00:39:42,640 for e-commerce. 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Tax Cloud is our trusted partner 907 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,920 for sales tax compliance built for growing Shopify brands. 908 00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:03,040 They handle regulations, filings and ongoing compliance working 909 00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,640 directly with the states on your behalf across the US so you can 910 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,240 stay focused on running your store. 911 00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:10,560 They've got a five star rating in the Shopify App Store and 912 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:12,960 listeners winning the Shopify get free migration and boarding 913 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:15,160 when you make the switch to apply for that and. 914 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,000 Learn more. You can go to 915 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,120 taxcloud.com/winning. That's tax cloud.com/winning.