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Hello and welcome to another 
episode, the winning Shopify 

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podcast. 
I've got a very exciting episode

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for you today. 
My guest, his name is John, He 

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is the CEO of Battle Box. 
They were founded in 2015. 

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John's been on the show before. 
These guys sell survival and 

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outdoor gear that gets delivered
monthly to your door, and 

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they've even got their own 
Netflix show. 

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John, welcome back. 
How are we doing? 

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Good, Nick. 
Thanks for having me back man. 

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Pleasure, Satya. 
I should be the one saying thank

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you. 
I'm going to jump straight in, 

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John, with a really tough 
question. 

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We're going to talk about this a
bit more. 

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How do you build a $4 million 
sales channel in one year? 

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Well. 
We did it with, with live live 

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shopping. 
So we launched live shopping on 

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we, we chose the Whatnot 
platform on April of last year. 

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And here we are. 
We're getting close to a year, 

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year next month. 
And we did it. 

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It's, it's just wild. 
Live shopping is, is here. 

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We've heard about it for 10 
years, about how big it was in 

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China and that it was going to 
go everywhere else. 

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And honestly, I was numb towards
it because I heard about it for 

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so long. 
Like it just wasn't going to 

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happen, and it happened. 
It's mad though isn't it? 

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You make such a good point that 
like everyone was saying, it's 

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coming. 
And how many different like apps

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you could plug into YouTube, 
plug into your own Shopify store

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and stuff, And then along comes 
whatnot. 

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If if someone's not heard of 
whatnot, what is Whatnot? 

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It's it's a it's a live shopping
platform. 

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Think about how you know Tiktok 
and YouTube reels and or YouTube

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shorts and Instagram reels, how 
they function with the, you 

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know, full screen vertical video
content that you can swipe 

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through. 
It's it's very, very similar in 

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behavior, except it's it's a 
shopping platform. 

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It's not a social media 
platform. 

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So in theory, if someone's in 
the app swiping their their 

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intent to purchase is much 
higher than someone just brain 

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rotting on TikTok and then 
seeing a TikTok shop item. 

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It's just a much different. 
Year and I love that it's 

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combined like we I call it 
retail therapy. 

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Retail has to be as entertaining
as it is like factual and 

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function functional like this is
the product and how it works, 

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but actually it needs to be 
entertainment. 

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I I guess somebody described to 
me the day as it's like it's 

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almost like TikTok shop without 
the rest of TikTok, isn't it? 

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It's like people only come in 
the app to shop so you're not 

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wasting your marketing dollars 
like trying to appear in front 

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of people that are just, you 
know, I was trying to see what 

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my friend and their family were 
doing at the weekend, going to 

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the pond and feeding the ducks 
and oh look, another phone case 

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on the. 
Ground you don't. 

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You weren't looking for a phone 
case, right? 

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Exactly, exactly. 
Whereas what you know, it knows 

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what you're looking for or what 
you're interested in, and it's 

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just that that video advertising
is straight there and people 

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like it. 
Yeah. 

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And, and I think the difference 
of what you just described, 

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where, you know, you're looking 
for just brain rot content and 

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you see a shopping item on 
Tiktok, comparing that to 

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Whatnot where everything is, is 
live, live selling it, it 

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creates another behavior too. 
So, you know, we, we had a lot 

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and we have a lot of success on 
Tiktok shop, but the economics 

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are wildly different on Whatnot.
Economics on Tiktok shop, AOV is

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around $20. 
AOV is closer to 80 on Whatnot. 

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Wow, LTV repeat buying. 
It's all a thing on what not on 

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TikTok shop. 
It's not right. 

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TikTok shop we, we take pride in
in really the marketing side of,

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of managing and and creating 
this brand of battle box. 

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And the buyer on TikTok shop 
just doesn't really care. 

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They don't care about the brand.
There's no, there's no affinity 

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towards that. 
There's, there's no LTV, there's

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no respectable LTV. 
It's, there's no repeat buying. 

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It's, I mean, it exists, but 
it's just a fraction of what are

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those. 
Every other sales channel and 

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whatnot behaves like other sales
channels where there's, there's 

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repeat purchases and there's 
strong LTV and it's, it's crazy,

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just a slight tweak and you 
know, purchasing intent changes 

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the behavior so. 
Much it's very, it's very 

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interesting what you say about 
the brand awareness. 

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I mentioned the intro like you 
guys have your own Netflix 

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series. 
Tell us more about the Netflix 

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series to add a bit more 
emphasis to what you've just 

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said as well about the brand 
equity you've built with 

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customers versus the on what 
not. 

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People don't care. 
Yeah. 

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So, you know, part of our, our 
main focus of this, this, these 

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two, the, these two principles 
of content and community, they 

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go hand in hand, You know, 
brands trying to accomplish that

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is it's not easy, it's 
difficult, it takes a lot of 

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work. 
Content as, as you and I both 

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know is it's a kind and it's, 
it's even Wilder than, you know,

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old school SEO where you know, 
you're making these changes, 

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you're waiting six months, nine 
months to really see the fruits 

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of your reward as content's 
worse, right? 

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You're having to put in 
sometimes a a year before you 

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really see it start to really 
click and and. 

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It's so expensive, isn't it? 
Like especially grade content is

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so expensive. 
So we've always focused on 

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content as as our true top of 
funnel. 

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Don't get me wrong, we spend an 
astronomical amount on ads on 

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meta, right? 
It's it's a necessary evil, but 

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it's while there's some type of 
funnel there, for the most part,

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it's mostly mid funnel. 
We're we're making the campaigns

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as as prospecting, don't get me 
wrong, but people have seen our 

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content before. 
The majority of of the 

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demographic that we're targeting
have and it's, you know, the 

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Netflix show as an example, 
right? 

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We're the entire season and 
every episode is we're testing 

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gear to determine if it's going 
to go in a battle box. 

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So it's a, it's everything is, 
is focused around that and and 

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our content doesn't sell, right?
We're not selling. 

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We're educating, we're having 
fun. 

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We're we're showing the human 
element of the brand and the 

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business. 
And that's what people, people 

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connect with and what not just 
seems to be a natural way for us

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to accomplish both. 
We can continue doing what we've

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done. 
If you've ever watched one of 

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our shows on there, it's 
entertaining, right? 

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It's not just item A for sale 
go. 

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You know, as we've ramped up the
past year, now most of our hosts

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have OBS, so there's going to be
graphics on the screen and 

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flames and we're really 
entertaining and it's we're 

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treating it much like content on
the other social channels. 

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And I think that that 
entertainment is the thing that 

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starts to are they what not you 
sort of say they don't. 

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They haven't seen that brand 
equity before, but that 

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entertainment factor that must 
create some stickiness within 

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whatnot, surely? 
It's like the amount of times, I

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mean, even twice today in the 
office, someone said like 

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confused, did somebody else 
reply with.com, which was a car 

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insurance advert here in the UK,
like, you know, but hasn't run 

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since I think I was back in 
school. 

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So 1000 years ago we had these 
adverts on TV and we're still 

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quoting them now. 
Or, you know, there's all these 

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little things like the Domino's 
advert at the moment, which is 

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like Domino, which is the only 
impression we're doing that 

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today. 
But just in all these random 

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settings suddenly like that's 
become banter amongst people. 

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So you might you must find that 
although people don't know or 

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even resonate or understand the 
brand equity, they've not come 

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across you guys before. 
What not must be building 

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something in that then, even if 
that's their starting point. 

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Yeah, no, absolutely. 
So what we're seeing is it's, 

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it's just another top of funnel 
for us. 

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We're running it as a 
profitable, very profitable 

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channel. 
But it, it, it really serves as 

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top of funnel brand awareness. 
We're then, you know, looking at

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the data and these people are 
coming in, they're making a 

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purchase, but then they're then 
going to our website later on. 

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They're then joining the, the, 
the membership, which is our 

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core business. 
They're coming in just as as 

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prospecting with traditional 
content or, or prospecting on 

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traditional ads. 
They're they're coming into the 

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funnel and the exact same way 
and they're behaving the the 

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exact same way. 
Nice, nice. 

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Let's rewind the clock then if 
someones like like I imagine 

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half the people listening right 
now are like quick stop the car.

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I need to Google something or 
like us chatting what is what 

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not like I need to see this 
thing. 

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You guys obviously weren't 
running it a year ago. 

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You've built this channel in 11 
months. 

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I think when we first looked, it
was like 10X in eight months or 

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something. 
You you're done with in your 

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revenue. 
How do you go from not running 

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it to running your first set of 
videos? 

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I actually think the the revenue
you got, I know it may not have 

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been super profitable, but the 
revenue you got in month one was

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all right, like and how did you 
achieve that from the get go? 

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Yeah. 
So, so month one, which was 

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which was April last year, we 
know we said, hey, we think that

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this might actually be the, the,
the beginning of live shopping 

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in in North America. 
Like it's going to, it's going 

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to catch on. 
North America and Europe are are

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going to finally embrace live 
shopping. 

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So we're going to we're going to
give it a test. 

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We were actually fairly close to
launching it first on TikTok 

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shop because we already had a 
million followers on there. 

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We thought, hey, this is we 
already had the audience. 

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This is just going to be. 
Now that just to interrupt 

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quickly that I mean, that sounds
like I I went with data all day.

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If you tell me we've got a 
million followers on TikTok, 

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where are we going to put our 
shoppable video content? 

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What I know you're about to 
explain like why on earth did 

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you go? 
So what not why not stick with 

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TikTok where it's like we've 
already got all the eggs in that

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basket. 
What? 

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What was the draw? 
We thought that they were doing 

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something different. 
They pure timing. 

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They prospected us right. 
Hey, we want you on the 

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platform. 
We we took a call and and it was

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what what we were talking about 
earlier. 

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It it's not, you know, brain 
rotting, choosing, watching 

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content with an occasional hey, 
buy this $20 item. 

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It's literally a platform where 
purchasing is occurring right 

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same as Amazon, same as eBay. 
It's it's a the, the intent. 

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You don't when you open up 
Amazon, you're, you're looking 

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either you're somewhere in the 
process of buying something, 

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whether it's discovery or or end
of funnel, like time to 

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purchase. 
And it's the same, same with 

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whatnot. 
So we're like, we, we, we 

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appreciated that. 
And there is also this extreme 

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vibe of community on whatnot 
with all these like little tiny 

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intricacies. 
And, and we're big community 

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guys. 
We, we see the value in that. 

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And I'll give, I'll just give 
one random example of a dozen. 

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When you're running a whatnot 
show and you're done instead of,

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and let's say you have 100 
people watching you when you, 

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00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,120
you could end it and those 100 
people just get kicked out of 

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00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:48,560
the channel, you're done. 
But that's not what you do. 

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You do something called a raid 
and I'm running a live show. 

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I'm done. 
I have 100 people. 

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00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:55,480
I'm like, hey guys, we're going 
to raid Nick's show. 

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00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,560
And Nick, you're on there 
selling whatever it is you sell.

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00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:00,960
I mean, it's somewhat brand for 
you anyway. 

234
00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:03,040
Like we're going to do a raid. 
I mean, it sounds like a 

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00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:05,080
survival game, like Outback or 
something like that. 

236
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,400
It's brilliant, absolutely. 
Brilliant. 

237
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So we literally we literally hit
raid. 

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I picked Nick's show, I hit raid
and I've taken myself and 100 

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00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,840
people watching me and I've 
dumped them real time all into 

240
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your show. 
Nice. 

241
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,360
And you're like, I now have 100 
more people and everybody from 

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00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,840
my show is saying raid. 
And you know, you might do a 

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00:12:24,840 --> 00:12:29,440
giveaway, but it's, it's, that's
pure community, right? 

244
00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:31,240
Like I'm literally taking my 
buyers. 

245
00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:33,760
I'm just, I've just taken him 
and, and dropped him in someone 

246
00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:35,960
else's show. 
And then, and then Nick, you're 

247
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:39,000
going to feel, feel and 
appreciate that. 

248
00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,840
So your next raid, if battle box
is on, you're probably going to 

249
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,520
raid us back. 
And it's this community vibe. 

250
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,440
Everybody can win. 
No one has to lose. 

251
00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,360
That was really, really 
attractive. 

252
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:52,640
So we said, OK, well, we're 
going to do a test. 

253
00:12:53,080 --> 00:12:58,760
And in, in April of last year, 
we ran, I think we ran 4 shows, 

254
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,000
5 shows a total of 10 hours, 10 
hours of selling. 

255
00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:08,360
And yeah, we did, we did right 
under 25 Ki think 24, nine. 

256
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:13,360
And we were like, OK, we're on 
to something here. 

257
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,240
This was, this was, was 
interesting. 

258
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,320
It you know, there's, there's 
some revenue here like at scale,

259
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,920
what does this look like? 
And you know, in, in May we did 

260
00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:29,720
26 hours, right. 
In June, we did 60 hours in July

261
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:36,560
99, August 107, September 135, 
October 171, November 195. 

262
00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:43,280
And we're just ramping up hours 
and scaling, scaling the channel

263
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,000
right now. 
We run, you know, almost a year 

264
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,280
in, we run between 65 and 70 
shows a month. 

265
00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:54,240
Average. 
Average shows, Yeah, average 

266
00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,640
show is 3 hours. 
Nice. 

267
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,360
And you mentioned it before to 
me as well, like you've actually

268
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:00,720
built A-Team around this, 
haven't you? 

269
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,560
I like, and one thing I love 
about you and last time we spoke

270
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:06,440
in a couple of conversation we 
had in between, like when you 

271
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,120
guys see something working, it's
like it's, it's my two favorite 

272
00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,840
worlds. 1 is the data. 
And the other side is like you 

273
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,880
guys double down on that and 
start putting, you know, the 

274
00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,720
data says this thing's working 
or it's got potential because I 

275
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,880
think you said you've hired a 
few people now that like they 

276
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:22,960
just run it. 
It's like you are the Whatnot 

277
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,200
team just own this, operate it 
well, which is where I think so 

278
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,240
many brands go wrong is they dip
their toes in a bit of that and 

279
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,120
a bit of that and a bit of that 
and it's suddenly you're spread 

280
00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,040
really thin. 
And then if any customer or 

281
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,480
potential customer engages with 
any of that content, it's a bit 

282
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,280
rubbish. 
So how, how do you manage that 

283
00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,920
internally where you've got Meta
doing a huge amount, you've got 

284
00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,440
Amazon, you've got lots of 
organic stuff that comes in 

285
00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,920
through brand equity. 
How do you kind of split those 

286
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,440
things out internally, but also 
keep them connected? 

287
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,480
So it's still one big business 
driving one big bottom line. 

288
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,320
Yeah. 
So it's it's not, not easy and I

289
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,040
don't think we do it perfect. 
I don't think we do it 

290
00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,120
perfectly, if if I'm being 
honest. 

291
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,840
So, so you know, what we found 
is off the jump. 

292
00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:07,560
So we had Cameron who was one of
he was our marketing coordinator

293
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:13,320
and you know, doing generalized 
marketing stuff across all, all 

294
00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,320
platforms, all parts of the 
business. 

295
00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:22,120
And he he had launched TikTok 
shop for us and then non live 

296
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,080
shopping, just traditional 
TikTok shop. 

297
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,840
And we're seeing success with 
that. 

298
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:31,160
We decided to, you know, launch 
what not after we, we saw what 

299
00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,560
it was and made the decision, 
this can scale. 

300
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,000
We, we said, OK, Cameron, you're
in charge of social commerce. 

301
00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,440
This is this, this is a thing 
now. 

302
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,640
This wasn't, this wasn't a 
position prior. 

303
00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,960
This wasn't a role we, we 
thought we needed prior. 

304
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,520
Now we know with certainty this 
is a this is a full time focus. 

305
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,200
So he became the the director of
social commerce and we 

306
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,480
backfilled his marketing 
coordinator role so that, you 

307
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,760
know, the marketing general is 
touching e-mail and SMS and all 

308
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,440
the social and all the other 
parts of the business and told 

309
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:10,040
Cameron, go, go, go. 
This is this is this, this is 

310
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:15,440
something so you know, from we 
had one host who is one of our 

311
00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:20,920
we have two full time creators 
with the company and one of the 

312
00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,920
initially one of them was just 
one of the hosts for those 10 

313
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,520
hours and the 26 hours they were
the host. 

314
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,440
We need more hosts, right? 
Brandon, who was hosting, who 

315
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,960
still hosts. 
He's full time creator for us. 

316
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,440
He also has to focus on content.
He can't just to your point, 

317
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,480
spread himself too thin and, 
and, and, and not do anything. 

318
00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:45,160
Well, So we started grabbing 
hosts and we're up to six hosts 

319
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:49,720
now there's a, there's a role 
that that only exists for this 

320
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,400
called a showrunner. 
And we have two full time 

321
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,280
showrunners, 2 part time 
showrunners. 

322
00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:58,280
They're sitting on a computer 
and they're the back end, right?

323
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,800
So they're loading the products 
for the show. 

324
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:02,840
They're, they're doing 
everything. 

325
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,520
They're communicating in the 
chat with the audience in 

326
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,720
addition to the host. 
They're communicating with the 

327
00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:10,000
host. 
They're running the show, 

328
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,640
they're the showrunner. 
It's a role that didn't it only 

329
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:16,480
exists for this. 
So it's, it's, it's kind of 

330
00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,800
cool, you know, have those two 
dedicated showrunners that they 

331
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,079
only exist to support, support 
this channel. 

332
00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,000
Yeah, and it's such a catch 22, 
isn't it? 

333
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,079
Like things like this are going 
to go better. 

334
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,240
Whatever channel it is, it's 
going to go better if you've got

335
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,200
someone who you're like, right, 
this is your desk, this is your 

336
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,640
chair. 
Make this channel work like 

337
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:35,480
that. 
That's your remit. 

338
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:38,440
You know, like you cost this, 
here's your budget for 

339
00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:40,920
advertising. 
This is the target, make it 

340
00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,040
work. 
And you tell us what you need. 

341
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,720
And again, I just think so many 
businesses I meet, like there's 

342
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,560
agencies that can help, there's 
freelancers, you can hire people

343
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,400
to do things. 
It's scary for a, for a business

344
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:53,800
though, isn't it? 
I think you guys kind of reach 

345
00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:56,120
the size where it's like the 
investment you put in it has 

346
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:57,920
kind of been like a bit more and
a bit more and a bit more and a 

347
00:17:57,920 --> 00:17:59,680
bit more. 
And you've got the backing of 

348
00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,360
the big company. 
But it must have been a time 

349
00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,680
earlier on where it was like, 
look, if we're going to do metal

350
00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,920
Netflix, we're going to do this 
thing really well. 

351
00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,880
It's going to cost money and we 
have to invest in that. 

352
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,360
So what advice would you give to
a smaller business that's like 

353
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:14,760
there's 10 channels or four 
channels I could be running. 

354
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:16,440
I want to double down on one of 
these. 

355
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,480
I can only afford to do 1. 
How do we, how do they decide 

356
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,240
which one or what advice would 
you give to them of like a sort 

357
00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:24,320
of just do it, but here's how to
do it. 

358
00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:26,240
Yeah. 
So it's, it's, you have a good 

359
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,520
point, right. 
You know your spread thing, 

360
00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,240
you've got to put where is the 
time, where does the resources, 

361
00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,560
where does the effort go? 
And the unfortunate part when 

362
00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,040
there's multiple people touching
an avenue of a, of a, of a 

363
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,560
business, an aspect of a 
channel, when there's multiple 

364
00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:45,600
people and there's multiple 
people accountable, nobody's 

365
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,480
accountable. 
And it's a sad reality. 

366
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,400
If multiple people are 
accountable for something, 

367
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,000
nobody's accountable. 
I think you nailed it, yeah. 

368
00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,720
And we've, we, we, we know that 
because obvious people talk 

369
00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:00,280
about it, but we've made that 
mistake a dozen, a dozen times 

370
00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:03,880
through the years where there's 
multiple people accountable for 

371
00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:09,200
some kind of new sales channel 
or new brand we've launched or 

372
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,440
some new initiative. 
And when every, when everyone's 

373
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:19,240
accountable, nobody is. 
So as soon as we identified what

374
00:19:19,240 --> 00:19:21,920
it was, we, we took the risk 
right as soon as we identified 

375
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,600
that this was scalable. 
So we launched in April, We 

376
00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,520
didn't officially put Cameron in
the role of director of social 

377
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,040
commerce until until August, 
September. 

378
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,120
So we continued to test and 
scale it for a few months before

379
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:42,160
we said, OK, dedicated resource.
We're, we're very confident that

380
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,560
this is a double down moment. 
But in order to truly double 

381
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:48,760
down, we've we've got to make 
the risk, we've got to have 

382
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,280
someone solely focused on it so 
that the other people, everybody

383
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:55,120
else can focus on, on on the 
other. 

384
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,560
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 
And I, I think one of the really

385
00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,720
interesting things you mentioned
now I said, you know, you 

386
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:03,600
absolutely nailed it is and it 
comes back to like company hire,

387
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,280
like hierarchy or structure and 
things like this. 

388
00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,640
I feel like because of the age 
of things like TikTok and 

389
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,120
whatnot and Shopify, like 
everything's sort of sold to a 

390
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,000
lot of business owners as it's 
all plug and play. 

391
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,400
It's all cheap and cheerful. 
And actually then one of the 

392
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,720
challenges becomes around that's
like actually some of the caller

393
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,040
old school. 
I'm becoming more old school the

394
00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,760
older I get and the more like, 
we just need a simple plan for 

395
00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,320
this. 
Like there is no plan. 

396
00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:29,520
We're just kind of doing stuff 
like what's the end game? 

397
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,640
What we're going to do in a 
year's time, five years time, 10

398
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,200
years time, like what are we 
actually trying to achieve? 

399
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:35,720
And the more I start asking 
these questions, which you 

400
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,600
probably kind of study at like 
Business School, the more you 

401
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,560
start to take a step back and 
go, right, well, we need someone

402
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:42,400
that owns it. 
And then the people underneath, 

403
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:47,160
they need simple and important 
like KPIs and metrics to go, if 

404
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,000
you're doing your bit, well, 
this is happening. 

405
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,600
And that will help your team 
leader who's in charge of the 

406
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,240
whole channel, that will help 
them achieve their goal. 

407
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:57,680
This is how your team fits into 
all the teams of the business 

408
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,080
and this is the North Star. 
And I guess your job as CEO is 

409
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,800
to try, and you know, you poor 
thing, try and hold all of that 

410
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,360
together and keep everyone 
motivated on the same page. 

411
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:09,360
But I think you, you nailed, you
nailed something when, when 

412
00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:13,080
building the team that Cameron's
building, KPIs are KPIs are 

413
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,320
king. 
And it's not micromanaging. 

414
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,560
It's just these are the KPIs, 
these, these are the, the 

415
00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,280
metrics that matter. 
And and for, for this channel, 

416
00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:26,880
it's, it's average hourly 
revenue, average hourly profit, 

417
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,400
average margin and average new 
buyers. 

418
00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:36,560
The new buyers is key because 
that is is validating that this 

419
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:38,360
is top of funnel. 
We're not doing any 

420
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,640
cannibalization of our existing 
somewhere else. 

421
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,840
Robin and you know how expensive
that is on Meta and Google and 

422
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,440
Amazon and all the other kind of
big channels. 

423
00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:48,120
So yeah, it makes a lot of 
sense. 

424
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,200
You said something to me as well
when we were planning today that

425
00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,000
really, really struck me and I 
think I glossed over it when we 

426
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,040
spoke and I really want to talk 
about it is you said like this 

427
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,320
is our this is now our like #2 
channel above Amazon. 

428
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:05,320
So this is your #2 channel. 
What's your number one Amazon's 

429
00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:06,920
three? 
Like how do you guys as a 

430
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,600
subscription business in the 
sort of survival outdoor space, 

431
00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,080
what does your channel make up 
actually look like on, you know,

432
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,360
when you actually look at the 
kind of revenue attribution 

433
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,360
reports? 
Do you ever find that in your 

434
00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,160
warehouse you have dead stock, 
You can't sell it, no one wants 

435
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,600
to buy it and you can't get a 
refund on it. 

436
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,920
Or alternatively, you're missing
inventory in your warehouse that

437
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,080
you need, you've got sales 
coming in and you're low on 

438
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,800
stock and you haven't ordered 
more stock in time. 

439
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:30,840
All these things hit profit. 
And I've been there. 

440
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,440
I've run my own Shopify store 
and had exactly that problem. 

441
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:35,600
But we've partnered up with 
Inventory Planner who have the 

442
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,200
most incredible app to help you 
manage that and forecast exactly

443
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,480
what products, what skews even 
down to what colour of product 

444
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:45,600
you need to order in advance to 
make sure stock levels remain 

445
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,280
consistent throughout. 
They're also running a seven day

446
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:49,680
boot camp. 
And if you want to go and sign 

447
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,640
up to that, it's 7 emails every 
seven days and it takes the same

448
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:54,200
amount of time as your morning 
coffee. 

449
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,680
And in seven days, like me, you 
can become an inventory 

450
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:59,000
management pro. 
Both links are in the 

451
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:00,240
description. 
Enjoy. 

452
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:01,920
Yeah. 
So, yeah. 

453
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:07,080
So Amazon had been our, our, our
number 2 for for a couple of 

454
00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:08,640
years. 
It's it's a 7 figure channel. 

455
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,400
It's it's a great channel for 
us. 

456
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:12,960
The number one is, is our 
website. 

457
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,440
Our our website is quick math. 
I mean, it's it's. 

458
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,680
Probably about day-to-day, 
doesn't it there? 

459
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,560
Yeah. 
But I would say on average 

460
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:31,880
websites probably 8080%, maybe a
couple points higher. 

461
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,000
So it's a it's, it's, it's not 
thinking caught by anybody. 

462
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,360
What do you use Amazon or like 
do you use Amazon or that was #2

463
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:42,160
it's now #3 channel? 
Do you do you consider Amazon 

464
00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:43,680
like a it's still a feeder 
channel. 

465
00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,800
People find us, they try the 
product and see it for the first

466
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,120
time. 
But then the websites, what it's

467
00:23:47,120 --> 00:23:49,600
really driving or do you find 
they're a totally separate 

468
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,600
audience? 
There's, there's some overlap, 

469
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,440
but not as much as as I would 
hope for. 

470
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,880
I mean, the, the Amazon shopper 
is the Amazon shopper. 

471
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,400
I, I put myself into that 
category. 

472
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:06,280
I, I buy on, I buy on Amazon 
because I know I'm going to get 

473
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,480
it quickly and I know if, if 
there's any sort of. 

474
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,000
Issue. 
You've got all that protection. 

475
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,040
Yeah, yeah. 
Amazon's always going to side 

476
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,400
with me. 
Prime example, and this is an 

477
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,400
Amazon product. 
I bought my dad one of those 

478
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,920
Ring doorbells. 
And. 

479
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,680
And I got it I think for 
Christmas or his birthday and 

480
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,240
he's he's got it connected on 
the doorbell and I'm seeing via 

481
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,240
the app his face of like setting
it up. 

482
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:39,080
And I watch it just go, his face
go like this because he's 

483
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,120
dropped it and he dropped it and
it broke. 

484
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:48,000
And you know what Amazon, 
classic Amazon say, hey, it's 

485
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,520
not working. 
They sent us a new one 

486
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:55,040
immediately, no questions asked.
Amazon always does the right 

487
00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:01,240
thing, and they do it 
unfortunately on the backs of 

488
00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,920
the vendors selling on. 
There right, I was going to say 

489
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,920
yeah, that it's really great for
consumer and it builds Amazon 

490
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:12,240
well, but it brands sells yeah 
you're paralysed in terms of 

491
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,240
like you might not even get the 
product back. 

492
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,680
So it's like, right, like 
Amazon, I don't know if you guys

493
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,280
have it as well, but Amazon the 
UK, as soon as I drop it at like

494
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:21,960
the post office or in delivery 
collection point, as soon as I 

495
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,120
drop it, I've got a refund 
especially. 

496
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,680
And and they're also like, do 
you want to have your refund as 

497
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,600
an Amazon voucher? 
And it's like another word is 

498
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,360
like, are you going to spend 
some money on Amazon? 

499
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:31,720
We'll just put it straight in 
there for you. 

500
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,160
Saves your bank transaction, 
saves Amazon some money. 

501
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,680
Yeah, and you're like. 
Straight, I don't, I guess from 

502
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,840
any other platform, No, give me,
give me my money. 

503
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,520
But on Amazon, I'm like, yeah, 
just give me credit. 

504
00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,560
But that that's the beauty of 
having all the retailers in one 

505
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,640
place on Amazon. 
So how see, see, I mean that it 

506
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,720
sounds like Amazon's obviously 
one cost for you, but it sounds 

507
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,120
like Whatnot for you then is 
counter to that because Whatnot 

508
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:54,400
is, you said a lot of these guys
will buy from you, but then they

509
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,400
they do come into site. 
You see them on the website, you

510
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,760
see them engaging. 
I'm going to ask you a horrible 

511
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:01,200
question. 
So I did an episode on this a 

512
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,080
few weeks ago myself about 
attribution. 

513
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:05,760
How do you know they've come 
from Whatnot? 

514
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,040
How do you like, is it spikes at
the same time? 

515
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,360
Is there an attribution? 
Do they click from Whatnot or an

516
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,480
e-mail into your site? 
Yeah, everyone's, everyone's 

517
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,520
favorite thing that's way more 
difficult than it should be in 

518
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:21,040
2026 and that's attribution. 
Attribution the the only way 

519
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:25,000
we're able to see is digging 
into our data. 

520
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,560
So because it's a marketplace 
just like eBay or Amazon, you 

521
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,840
know, you don't own that 
customer technically, right? 

522
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:34,800
You're not getting their e-mail 
address any marketplace. 

523
00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,800
The e-mail address belongs to 
the marketplace, but names, 

524
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:42,440
addresses, marrying data. 
So it's a separate profile. 

525
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,640
We have a Shopify integration 
pushes it as a separate profile.

526
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,960
But we can then do deep, deep 
analysis on our data and we can 

527
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:55,480
cross identify same name, same 
address, probably the same 

528
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,280
person. 
So we're able then to marry. 

529
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,640
Yeah. 
No, it's not. 

530
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,160
It's it's a lot of work to to 
marry the data. 

531
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:06,560
Yeah, yeah. 
But. 

532
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,800
It's thank goodness for AI. 
Yeah, exactly. 

533
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,040
I've been building all sorts on 
there. 

534
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,320
I keep saying to my team like 
I've had an idea for a new 

535
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,760
system and they're like, have 
you built a web app? 

536
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,920
I'm like, yeah, I've done some 
vibe coding and built a web app 

537
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:20,240
and everyone rolls their eyes 
until they see what I've built 

538
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:21,840
and they're like, oh, can I get 
a login? 

539
00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,640
This looks great. 
Like this tool saved me hours. 

540
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,920
And it's like just I think the 
way the world's gone now, like I

541
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:30,520
flag it all the time now. 
Is Sidekick in Shopify flipping 

542
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,040
genius? 
You've got a question and it's 

543
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,320
like, rather than digging 
through the reports and 

544
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,280
analytics, just ask it and say 
how many customers in Kansas, 

545
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,680
which is it's a good segue. 
We're going to be in Kansas. 

546
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,840
John and I come say hi at sub 
Summit in May and we're going to

547
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:45,120
be hanging out and having a beer
or two. 

548
00:27:45,120 --> 00:27:48,360
And John doesn't know it yet. 
He's going to be my backup if I 

549
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,640
need somebody on my panel on the
podcast stage that we're 

550
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,160
hosting. 
And John doesn't know it, but 

551
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,040
I'll, I'll buy him a beer and 
he'll be there, I'm sure. 

552
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,880
And but I think that you know, 
say like you want to find out 

553
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:59,880
how many people in Kansas have 
bought a certain product because

554
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,480
you've got a theory or someone 
internal. 

555
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,640
This is what I love in the 
office. 

556
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,480
Someone's just said something 
and you and you kind of as ACEO 

557
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,320
owner, you're like, really like 
that. 

558
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,800
If, if yes, flipping, heck, we 
need to do loads of stuff with 

559
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:11,960
that. 
Like that's a whole game changer

560
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,120
for the business. 
If not, I just don't want people

561
00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:15,920
saying things or thinking things
that aren't true. 

562
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,360
Let's just ask Sidekick quickly 
on Shopify and sidekick goes yes

563
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:22,520
or no, or like more like that. 
It's grey, you know, it's not 

564
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,880
black or white here. 
There's a kind of a middle 

565
00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:26,920
ground, but just getting that 
answer quickly and and then 

566
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:29,760
saying like, now overlay this 
data and if it can't do it, I 

567
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,880
think it's one of the best AIS 
I've used because it will say, I

568
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,640
can't do that, but you could 
download, export and then do 

569
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,640
that data yourself using this 
formula in a Google Sheet. 

570
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,920
And it's like, wow, like it 
really is trying to help you. 

571
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,280
And but I love the fact you, you
connect to that data because a 

572
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,840
lot of platforms like TikTok 
shop is great and it integrates 

573
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:51,000
into Shopify, but the orders 
still happened on TikTok. 

574
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,640
It's not happened on Shopify. 
And the same with Amazon. 

575
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,120
It's like you, you're like we 
said earlier, you're 

576
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,160
disconnected from that customer.
So I think seeing those 

577
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,840
customers from Whatnot come into
the site is like an enormous 

578
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,280
tick for a brand like yours, 
especially when you're looking 

579
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,000
longer than just, you know, the 
actual live, the three hour live

580
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,640
shows that you're doing. 
When you're looking long term, 

581
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,680
you want people to be engaging 
with a brand and buying more 

582
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,440
than once, don't you? 
Yeah, and with Tiktok, 

583
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,640
unfortunately we we don't get it
right. 

584
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,320
They don't Amazon, you know, 
customers will buy multiple 

585
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,120
things on Amazon and they'll, 
they'll save your store and 

586
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,840
they'll if, if it, if it fits 
what they're looking for. 

587
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,440
But yeah, unfortunately Tiktok 
does not have that. 

588
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:30,800
Yeah, and. 
I'm. 

589
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,560
Going to come in to land on two 
more questions. 

590
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:38,440
The first one is if you were at 
a bootstrapped Shopify store. 

591
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,240
So they're quite small budgets, 
like we said earlier, budgets 

592
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,160
are tight. 
They can't allocate a whole 

593
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,560
person to to whatnot and to 
shoppable video. 

594
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,120
What advice would you give to 
them about starting out? 

595
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,720
Like what's a good way to get 
going with it or test it? 

596
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:54,560
And it's always that chicken and
egg testing it with enough, but 

597
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:56,080
not too much. 
What advice would you give to 

598
00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,200
somebody? 
In that situation, you know, the

599
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:03,800
way we tested was not anything, 
anything special, right? 

600
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,880
So there's there's a there's a 
Shopify what not integration. 

601
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,480
So it's going to it's going to 
put your products in your what 

602
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,000
not tool. 
All you need is your phone. 

603
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:20,000
You literally download the app 
start show and and it's go, go, 

604
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:24,400
go and it's it's it's not going 
to be a lot of resources. 

605
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,520
You, you literally jumping off, 
you could pull up your phone, 

606
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:36,520
hit live show and go. 
It's you know, I think it's, 

607
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,880
it's natural, especially a 
smaller shop to have paralysis 

608
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,080
by analysis where they want to 
make sure that they're doing it 

609
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:44,800
perfectly and it's going to be 
right. 

610
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,640
And you don't, you don't need 
that. 

611
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:52,360
Just go literally connect your 
store, schedule a show, sell 

612
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,440
and, and, and, and garner some, 
some learnings. 

613
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,960
You know, I look at it now and 
yeah, we have a, a, we have 

614
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,920
Cameron who runs the channel and
we have 6 different hosts and we

615
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,920
have, you know, multiple 
showrunners. 

616
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:08,840
So there's three different 
things right there. 

617
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,840
But like jumping off, we didn't 
have that. 

618
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,320
We we had a host and then we had
someone that was trying to 

619
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:20,480
figure out the back end. 
But there's a lot, if you open 

620
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,200
up Whatnot right now, I'd say 
90% of the sellers, it's the 

621
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:28,000
same guy that is running the 
back end, running the show as 

622
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:34,080
the host and shipping, shipping 
the items out while Whatnot's 

623
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,160
making this awesome. 
Yeah. 

624
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,440
Well, so, so you know, Whatnot 
started and it's, it's mainly 

625
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,600
with solar preneurs, single, 
single people that are, are 

626
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,920
doing everything and it's a 
great platform for that. 

627
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,960
Now they've, you know, they've 
raised, they raised money twice 

628
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:57,120
last year in the beginning of 
the year at a, at a $5 billion 

629
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,080
evaluation and then at the end 
of the year at an $11 billion 

630
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:02,400
evaluation. 
So you can see. 

631
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:03,920
Where it's going? 
Yeah. 

632
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,000
So a part of this money is 
investing and they want to get 

633
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:12,280
the the larger brands. 
And also that, that growth is 

634
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,320
revenue based growth. 
It's not like AI and stuff which

635
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,800
people are investing in and the 
hope that it grows, the hope it 

636
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,720
becomes a certain size. 
It's like, and again, I always 

637
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:22,720
give, I always feel the need to 
say like, disclaimer, we're not 

638
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,280
giving financial advice. 
We're not saying you should go 

639
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,600
and invest and whatnot. 
But we're we're just saying that

640
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,960
actually it's like in terms of 
hedging your bets and giving it 

641
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,840
a go, I mean that's amazing. 
And I think that leads me on 

642
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,280
really nicely into my second and
final question on this. 

643
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,520
And second final question, if 
that makes any sense. 

644
00:32:38,920 --> 00:32:42,520
And but the the question is how 
do you pay Whatnot? 

645
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,360
How do Whatnot benefit from the 
stuff you guys are doing? 

646
00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:49,320
Yeah. 
So Whatnot functions just like 

647
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,080
any other, any other 
marketplace. 

648
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:53,560
They they have their, their 
fees. 

649
00:32:53,560 --> 00:33:00,920
So Whatnot takes 8% for 
themselves and then there's also

650
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,200
a 3% and 30 cent credit card 
transaction overlay. 

651
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,720
So, so 11 points of of the order
are coming. 

652
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,000
Never, never going to you. 
They're going straight to the 

653
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,160
the platform, which you know, 
eBay is. 

654
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,080
Roughly pretty lean. 
Yeah, eBay, eBay is called 

655
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:25,760
probably 1314 points. 
Amazon is 15 if you're, if 

656
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,480
you're fulfilling yourself, but 
we all know you, you've got to 

657
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,240
do fulfilled by Amazon to really
show up, which is another 15. 

658
00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,720
Amazon's taking 30 and we 
haven't even talked about 

659
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,160
storage. 
Returns. 

660
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,480
I'm not having such a bitch 
about Amazon today, but it's all

661
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,720
true. 
Yeah, but I mean, but Amazon's 

662
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,240
great, right? 
Like I love Amazon. 

663
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,000
It serves its purpose. 
We love selling on there. 

664
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,200
It's just a different economic. 
It's instant customer reach and 

665
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:52,680
I think that's the real power of
it, isn't? 

666
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:53,680
It that's what you're and that's
what. 

667
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:56,600
You're saying, yeah, you've got 
next day delivery, you're 

668
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,840
reaching people really, really 
quick. 

669
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,640
And actually if you run an offer
or something, you can so quickly

670
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,400
build customer reviews, which is
so much more valuable than just 

671
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,120
100% conversion. 
It also gives you the insights 

672
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:07,920
you need. 
So I've seen a lot of people 

673
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,560
that have done a Kickstarter and
then gone straight onto Amazon 

674
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:14,239
and even called it like, you 
know, 2025 top Kickstarter 

675
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,560
products or something, which 
again is like a really smart way

676
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,159
of just connecting up those two,
you know, the the two hacks, 

677
00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:21,120
they're like. 
We're. 

678
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,159
Here and we were Kickstarter. 
Yeah, yeah, it's amazing. 

679
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:25,960
Well, look, I do have one final 
question. 

680
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:27,960
It's a very easy question, John,
that you shouldn't have to think

681
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,639
about at all. 
If people are listening to this 

682
00:34:29,639 --> 00:34:31,360
and going, John, this sounds 
amazing. 

683
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,880
How can they come and meet us? 
How can they check out where, 

684
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,080
you know, where's your website? 
What are your social channels? 

685
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:37,840
What's your whatnot? 
Is it a handle? 

686
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:39,560
Like I've not really used one I 
like myself. 

687
00:34:39,679 --> 00:34:42,000
It's a. 
It's a handle just like just 

688
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,719
like any other channels. 
So so yeah, so on on whatnot. 

689
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:49,520
It's it's at battle box. 
Battle Boxes is our handle on 

690
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,719
all other social. 
Channels and it's missing the E 

691
00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,600
isn't it on battle box? 
I always spell it wrong. 

692
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:55,080
Yeah. 
Spell checks on Google for me, 

693
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,360
yeah. 
Which I love that it Google will

694
00:34:58,360 --> 00:34:59,720
correct you now. 
It's like, do you mean 

695
00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:02,200
BattleBots with no E? 
And it will show you the results

696
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:04,720
of what do you mean anyway? 
Like we know what you're looking

697
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,480
for, they've given you the 
result and you can just click 

698
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,760
the button. 
It's a Vlanity button. 

699
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:14,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
BATTLBOX also will be will be at

700
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:18,240
Sub Summit live selling on 
stage. 

701
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:20,040
Nice. 
Yeah. 

702
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,480
So we're looking forward to 
that. 

703
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,560
We'll have the Whatnot team 
there and we'll be, yeah, we'll 

704
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,560
be the Battle box. 
Whatnot team will be there 

705
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,440
selling on stage probably every 
day. 

706
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:32,800
Nice. 
We're working on the details. 

707
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,160
Yeah, and we had your good 
friend Chris on. 

708
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,880
I mentioned you to Chris. 
I've mentioned you to three 

709
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,240
people now in the last couple of
weeks and they were like, yeah, 

710
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,480
of course we know John. 
It's like this guy is like he's 

711
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:43,720
a good guy to know. 
But yeah, Chris here. 

712
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:45,680
We had on a couple of weeks ago 
from sub summer. 

713
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:47,320
It might have been last week. 
I don't know what the scheduling

714
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:48,000
plan is. 
Sorry. 

715
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,760
Yes, yeah. 
And it's and it's beyond my pay 

716
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,080
grades to know when we're when 
we're posting stuff on my own 

717
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,280
podcast. 
But yeah, we had Chris on and he

718
00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,720
mentioned you, John, and said 
you're going to be there. 

719
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,440
And he also said, guys, if 
you're a brand and you want to 

720
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,960
come along, people like me are 
paying to have meetings and 

721
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,480
suppliers and tech apps are 
paying to have meetings with 

722
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,640
people. 
So if you do those meetings, not

723
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:11,800
only do you get a free ticket 
and they cost thousands of 

724
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:15,920
dollars, they will also give you
up to $750 towards your travel 

725
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,120
and accommodation and everything
else. 

726
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,360
And if you're not crossing the 
Atlantic like me, it's probably 

727
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:20,760
going to be a lot cheaper than 
what I'm doing. 

728
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,640
And you won't be as jet lagged 
as I'm going to be the whole 

729
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:24,520
time there. 
So yeah, if you are in the US, 

730
00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,200
come say hi. 
We'd love to meet you all. 

731
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,040
And yeah, I want to say a 
massive thank you to to John for

732
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,160
coming back. 
John, 2 incredible episodes 

733
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:32,760
under your belt now. 
We hope to get you back in a 

734
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:35,480
year or two, see if what not 
still exists, see how it's going

735
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:36,720
for you guys. 
So thank you so much. 

736
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:38,800
Nick, thank you for having me. 
I'll see you. 

737
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,640
I'll see you in a couple of 
months at our sub summit. 

738
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:42,120
I'll see you in a couple of 
months. 

739
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,600
And for everybody else listening
back in on Tuesday, we choose 

740
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:46,800
the tea break talks. 
I am missing one week, but I 

741
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,440
think it would have already 
happened by the time this one 

742
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:50,520
goes out again. 
I don't know that scheduling, 

743
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,280
scheduling list of episodes 
that's coming up at the moment, 

744
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,760
but hit subscribe button if you 
haven't already. 

745
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:56,200
I hope you've enjoyed today's 
show and if you've got any 

746
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,600
questions, send us an e-mail. 
Hello at Winning with 

747
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,880
shopify.com. 
Thanks for tuning in. 

748
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,360
See you next time. 
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