1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,200 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,080 We are really testing marketing. People asked me like, what's it 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:08,640 like running the company? My normal response is like no 4 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,800 one warned me about. This but we figured that out. 5 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,280 Tell me more. We still wanted to make a 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,600 collection of the usable items that we were like, we're on a 7 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,040 mission. And now I still, after so many 8 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:18,960 years, have so much. Stuff. 9 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,400 There's a whole like archive of strategies of how to get rid of 10 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,400 some of that old stuff. We've had some products where 11 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:25,960 they're good and we can sell them out, but like, just like 12 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,840 don't order them again. We will learn lessons. 13 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:35,360 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Winning with 14 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:36,560 Shopify podcast. My name is Nick. 15 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:38,520 Welcome to the show. It's been such a pleasure having 16 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:39,720 so many of you guys. TuneIn. 17 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,200 I got inundated by messages last week about e-mail AI. 18 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,480 Someone even said where do I buy my jumpers, which I told my wife 19 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,040 and she laughed and was like you, someone's asking you for 20 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:50,880 fashion advice and but welcome to the show. 21 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:52,560 It's so good to have you guys tuning in. 22 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:54,680 If you haven't already, go and check out Growth Vault. 23 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,760 Let's not live yet. You can join the waiting list. 24 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,840 We've had nearly 1000 people sign up to growth. 25 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:00,560 Always insane seeing the numbers. 26 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,000 Growth Vault is going to be a bit like an Expo, a show, a 27 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,720 conference, a summit. We can be live all year. 28 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:09,440 The whole thing's going to go live in one single moment, 1st 29 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:11,880 of September this year and it's going to be live for a full 30 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,920 year. So if you want to speak, you're 31 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:16,400 a brand with a cool story, you want to come on the show and or 32 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,080 do that as well. Do reach out to us. 33 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,680 We're always looking for amazing guests like somebody I'm going 34 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,160 to introduce very, very shortly. And yeah, do reach out to us. 35 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:24,960 Hello at winning with shopify.com or go to 36 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,440 wwspodcast.com and check out Growth Vault. 37 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,600 It's the second link top left. If you're on mobile, be the 38 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,920 mobile now and B go and check that out on our website. 39 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:35,360 If you're on a bright pink website and need your 40 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:36,720 sunglasses, you're in the right place. 41 00:01:36,760 --> 00:01:39,720 So welcome to our website. Anyway, without further ado, I 42 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,320 want to say a massive welcome to my guest, Isabel, who's Co 43 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:44,800 founder of last Object. Isabel, welcome back to the 44 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:45,600 show. How are you? 45 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:48,120 I'm good and thank you for having me back. 46 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,680 Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. And I, I was just saying before 47 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:53,960 we hit record, I remember some of the conversations we had last 48 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,080 time and you said, oh, there's been some changes. 49 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,880 So I'm so excited to hear about the journey you guys have been 50 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:00,840 on. And it's such a unique business, 51 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:03,000 which I think is why it stayed so strong in my mind as to how 52 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:05,160 you manufacture your products. And I don't want to give too 53 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,920 many spoilers. We will come on to all of that 54 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:08,880 very, very shortly. But anyway, like we do with all 55 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:10,400 of our guests now, we're going to give you some quick fire 56 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:11,880 questions. We can modify these a little bit 57 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,600 every every week. First question is about to get 58 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,920 to know you a little bit. What is your favorite chocolate 59 00:02:16,920 --> 00:02:18,760 bar? Hershey's. 60 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,920 Hershey's nice. No one said that yet. 61 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:23,560 That is. That is a very, very good show. 62 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:27,320 And what's your favorite song or playlist at the moment, What 63 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:30,240 you're listening to? Oh, right now I'm listening to 64 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,080 like Ibiza Lounge. Oh, really? 65 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,400 Still playing in my living room. Dragon here. 66 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,080 I can't hear it, no, but we've been listening to, I think it's 67 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,280 called Lo Fi. We've just been asking our Alexa 68 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:43,880 at home, like play Lo Fi and we've got a little 10 month old 69 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:45,760 baby who loves it. It's a similar stuff like kind 70 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:47,760 of lounge, almost like kind of house stuff. 71 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:50,200 And all right, I love this one and this one, some of the 72 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,240 stories people, you're going on a desert island and you've got 73 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,080 to survive as long as possible and you can take 3 items. 74 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:57,600 What 3 items are you taking with you? 75 00:02:59,920 --> 00:03:00,920 I. Guess you could always take 76 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:03,280 three of your products. Couldn't you take 3 last object 77 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:05,440 products? True, true. 78 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,360 OK. I would take a water bottle. 79 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:13,040 I don't know why and and and then I would take. 80 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:14,920 You can't take a person. I don't know why I want. 81 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:18,640 I would want to take my oldest son, not because I don't want 82 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:20,800 the others, but he's so resourceful. 83 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,080 Oh, that's good. Yeah, I like that. 84 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:29,000 I like that and 3rd item. And for third item, OK, that 85 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:34,920 would probably be my phone that's very not unique if you've 86 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,880 got. Starlink Internet access, then 87 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:38,280 that's quite good. I mean, you can literally just 88 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,920 message like a government and be like, can you send a ship? 89 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,360 Like I'm straight, not quite unique. 90 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:45,480 Thank you. That is quite unique. 91 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,480 I like that. And then a couple of questions 92 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,640 about last object then. So #1 when, when were you guys 93 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:51,120 founded? What year did you guys start? 94 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,120 2019. 2019 nice you're coming seven years old, which is cool 95 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,680 and and what is at the moment, what is your best selling 96 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,960 product? Right now our best selling 97 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,720 product is laundry detergent sheets. 98 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:06,920 Nice and what do they what do you laundry detergent sheets 99 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:09,080 what do they do like what and how are they different to normal 100 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:11,720 products why are people buying so many of them so we. 101 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Did like a whole collection. So we're based, our first 102 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:19,079 products were all, you know, reusable items that wanted to 103 00:04:19,079 --> 00:04:21,839 eliminate single use products. And then we did a whole 104 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:24,600 collection afterwards, which was like taking water out of 105 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,240 products. Like we're shipping all these 106 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:31,880 different soaps and detergents and then and, and they're filled 107 00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:35,680 with like 9070% water and that's just very wonderful. 108 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,680 So we did a whole collection of different soaps and detergents 109 00:04:39,920 --> 00:04:43,280 that are waterless. So it's like a it's a sheet of 110 00:04:43,280 --> 00:04:46,440 paper that you put into your washing machine and then BAM, 111 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,960 you, yeah, you wash with them. So it's just very simple and 112 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:52,080 it's really good for the environment. 113 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,200 And then on top of that, it's really easy to use. 114 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,720 So everybody just jumped on that, yeah. 115 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:00,400 Yeah, yeah. Oh, amazing. 116 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:03,160 I, I, I've been, I've been watching this kind of movement. 117 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,240 I think we got, I think it was Groom GRUUM. 118 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,600 And we, we we're going to try and get them on the show soon as 119 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:09,880 well. We do actually have a connection 120 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,520 into, into Groom, but they might be called Grum. 121 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,880 I assume it's Groom because it's 2 U's, but they do the same kind 122 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,200 of thing like a refillable deodorant. 123 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:19,520 It's got no water in it. Like you run it under the tap 124 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,920 and then use it because yeah, as you say, there's no point 125 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,240 shipping water everywhere. And actually I think it's the 126 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:26,560 same with detergent. Yeah, if you just have like 127 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,960 almost like a block of something or as you guys say, with sheets 128 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:29,920 and putting it in the washing machine. 129 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,720 Otherwise we're just, I mean how much carbon is is actually being 130 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,920 burnt in put in the atmosphere from shipping either from 131 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,840 flights or ships. I was reading and and don't 132 00:05:39,840 --> 00:05:41,520 quote me on this, I'm not an engineer, but a friend of mine 133 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:44,520 is. He works in plane design and 134 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,040 satellite design. They literally design satellites 135 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:48,960 are going to space. He was saying that crude oil 136 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:50,760 they put in ships is the worst thing for the environment. 137 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,520 He said 'cause they literally just pour it in and all the 138 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,120 stuff that doesn't burn properly just comes out the exhaust. 139 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,120 Whereas at least planes do burn very refined fuels. 140 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,440 There's very little fume from them compared to that and same 141 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,240 with cars. But it's still not good for the 142 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:05,200 environment. That's cool. 143 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:06,840 That is, that is a really, really cool product. 144 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,800 And it would you say it's your best selling because it's a 145 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,160 repeatable product as well as you, you kind of hinted unlike 146 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,320 your initial products that were like this is the last one of 147 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,040 these you'll ever need. Exactly. 148 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,400 It's not a very good business model. 149 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,920 So yeah, so so we did some that yeah, the line of products with 150 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,040 soaps are something that you have, you know, monthly and now 151 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,080 we actually sell them and like for a whole year of supply 152 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,720 because a whole year of supply of detergent in my house and I 153 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,600 have two small kids is it doesn't it's not more than like 154 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:40,120 a little box, like a shoe box. So you can really store a lot of 155 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:42,200 the amounts. So yeah, but it but yeah, it's 156 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,440 very much repeat customer thing. Yeah, yeah, I like bulk buying. 157 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:48,760 We have a garage at home and I'm like, I'm like honey, like 158 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,600 that's on discount. Let's just fill the garage with 159 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,280 it. And she's like, no, I don't want 160 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:53,160 clutter. She's like, there'll be a 161 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,200 discount again soon, just buy one and don't clutter the house. 162 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,320 And I'm like, she's probably right and OK, amazing. 163 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,600 Like, well, let's get into my normal questions then and let's, 164 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:02,800 let's start right at the beginning. 165 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,600 I'm obviously we've had you on the show before. 166 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:07,680 It's a few years ago. I remember what office I was in, 167 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,480 which is why I think it was about 3 years ago. 168 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:11,440 I remember when I was sitting when we, when we spoke. 169 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,880 Why did you guys start the business? 170 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,720 For anyone that didn't hear that initial episode or hasn't heard 171 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:19,280 of you guys before, like what was the reason you started the 172 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:24,160 business initially? Well, the reason was very dear 173 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:27,760 to us all three where we're three designers that had done a 174 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,960 lot of different designing throughout our lives and in 175 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,120 different areas like working for people, not working for people. 176 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:38,440 And, and I think at the end we kind of got together because we 177 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:40,120 wanted to make sustainable products. 178 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,680 And that was really like everybody's doing that now, but 179 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,560 it was really something seven years ago or very different. 180 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:50,000 It was actually very hard to get into, like we had to educate a 181 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,320 lot around our products. Yeah, yeah, of course. 182 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,200 Oh, it's why it's sustainable and in what way. 183 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,560 And but now people are getting it very easily. 184 00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:00,280 But so, so that was just very dear to our hearts. 185 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,120 We wanted to do something and then we wanted to do it. 186 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,920 That has a massive impact. And that's why we went to a 187 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:11,360 single use as single use items. So that was what we were kind of 188 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,160 fighting against. We have to figure out how to 189 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,320 solve this problem. Where are we buying all this, 190 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,960 all these products that we literally use for a second and 191 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,040 then throw out? Yeah, yeah. 192 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,400 And I remember when we spoke before about where you get your 193 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,880 materials from. Tell us more about how you get 194 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:32,799 material to make your products because I found this fascinating 195 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:36,400 and it takes so many eco boxes like of helping the planet in 196 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,480 the process. Yeah, yeah, cuz we ended up 197 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:42,400 actually designing a lot of things in plastic and that was 198 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,600 kind of a OK, we have to do it in a really good way. 199 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,680 So not using virgin plastic and and we researched a lot of 200 00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:51,720 things. We actually ended up doing a 201 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:54,560 corn based boxes in the beginning. 202 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:58,400 So they were made of corn, but it was a plastic and and we just 203 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:03,040 found out how hard it actually is to get rid of that plastic 204 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,600 again because it needs like a specific bacteria and a specific 205 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:12,280 temperature. And so we ended up doing ocean 206 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:13,720 bound plastic. So we changed the whole 207 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:18,800 collection and then we buy up ocean bound plastic and we also 208 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,640 use a lot of our profits to cleaning up the ocean. 209 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:27,360 So it's kind of just like a circular really amazing, yeah 210 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,920 moment that kind of happened in that in doing this, so is all of 211 00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:35,000 our plastics are ocean bound plastic. 212 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,840 Which I love because a lot of people use recycled plastics. 213 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:41,560 Yours is like, well, we've also hoovered it out the ocean 214 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:43,960 initially. Sorry, I, I, I crack myself on 215 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:45,920 this all the time. Hoover's a brand we vacuumed. 216 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:50,120 We vacuumed it out of the ocean and and then reuse the plastic 217 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,560 that otherwise was just going to end up in a, the stomach of a 218 00:09:52,560 --> 00:09:55,960 fish or on a beach somewhere. And like it we send means any 219 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,280 animal could be endangered or hurt by it and it and all the 220 00:09:58,280 --> 00:09:59,920 things they let out into the water as well. 221 00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:01,360 So I thought that was absolutely amazing. 222 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,680 And it's also doing something amazing because it's also 223 00:10:04,680 --> 00:10:09,480 putting it could money into these little areas where they 224 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,480 actually have a lot of this ocean mounted plastic. 225 00:10:11,680 --> 00:10:15,080 So you're also putting a currency on trash and that's 226 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,040 amazing. So you're having all the locals 227 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:20,440 like gather everything out, clean it sorted in colors and 228 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,000 then we buy it up. So it's it's really a win win 229 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,640 thing. And and it we've had a really 230 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:27,680 good collaboration and with the company that we are using for 231 00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:29,800 it. And I just, I've done a lot of 232 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:32,720 things throughout the years and the research and adult different 233 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,920 materials and I think this is really something that made a 234 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:38,120 huge difference. Amazing, amazing. 235 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:40,440 And again I think the. The. 236 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,200 One of the issues I find with charities and like I'm a 237 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,480 trustee, trustee of a charity and we're always pitching to get 238 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,160 more funding and it's a, it's a local charity to where we are, 239 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:51,480 it's local businesses and we're always trying to pitch. 240 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:53,560 It's one of the reasons I got involved was like that I do 241 00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,800 sales and marketing, like I'm sure I can raise some money for 242 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,200 a charity, but we're always having to pitch to get more 243 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,200 money. If you create like an economy 244 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:02,440 off the back of the thing that that you're trying to solve with 245 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:05,320 the charity now it's like every time somebody buys one of your 246 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:08,880 products, there's more funding to get plastic out the ocean. 247 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,800 Like it's, it's a really, really and that's a kind of full circle 248 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:14,040 economy of this thing rather than the way we're doing it, 249 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,160 which is like we need to keep getting funding to do what we 250 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:17,920 do. So yeah, yeah. 251 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:21,000 So I think, yeah, some really, really exciting, really exciting 252 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:22,160 things around that you you're doing. 253 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:25,040 You mentioned you're you're one of three Co founders. 254 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:27,520 And who are the other founders? Like how did that come about? 255 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:29,200 Why did you decide to run the business with those guys? 256 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,600 Well, one of them is my brother. So, so we were, yeah, born into 257 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,000 the same family. So I kind of knew him from the 258 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,600 get go. And, and we ended up, weirdly 259 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,120 enough, actually on the same, in the same university. 260 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:48,760 And, and we had, he'd done another study and I had two. 261 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:54,680 And then he, he met one of his somebody, a call, who he made a 262 00:11:54,680 --> 00:11:56,960 business with and sold a lot of different designs. 263 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,160 And we ended up just having like a shared office because we were 264 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,480 all working freelance. And that's how we kind of 265 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:08,080 started working together. But and call is also kind of a 266 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,960 brother to me, but not by blood. Nice, nice. 267 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,720 I think, I think we've certainly we're Co founders. 268 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:17,000 I, I've learned that I'm terrible at sharing my toys. 269 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,000 So I don't have a Co founder and I, I've had business partners or 270 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,040 we've had partnerships over the years and I know it's a me 271 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:25,200 problem, but I obviously don't feel like people aren't pulling 272 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,320 their weight. I don't know if I'm a workaholic 273 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:29,920 or I'm just a perfectionist. I certainly don't do things that 274 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:32,320 are perfect. But how do you keep that 275 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:36,000 cohesion between Co founders? You know, how do you keep it 276 00:12:36,680 --> 00:12:38,600 healthy? I guess is the you know, is the 277 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:40,800 right word for it. Like how do you keep it fair and 278 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,160 even and, and divvy out like you're doing this, I'm doing 279 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,520 this, you're doing this. I think, well, we're all three 280 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:49,240 very aware of each other and we're all very different. 281 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,600 So nobody really sticks on each other. 282 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,200 And then I think we, we talk about things. 283 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:58,680 So if sometimes something is not going so well, we need to shift 284 00:12:58,680 --> 00:13:01,400 or something. It's never like in the seven 285 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,280 years that we've been together, we've never really had, OK, 286 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,000 we've had a fight actually once, 2 times, but sometimes. 287 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,960 You need to get it in the open sometimes I find, as long as 288 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,840 it's healthy. Because sometimes. 289 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,280 You need to just say this is on my chest and I just need to say 290 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:17,000 it so you guys are aware and you're not going to like this, 291 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:18,640 but it needs to be said like, yeah. 292 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:22,560 I remember especially when we got investors on board and and 293 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,000 we kind of became a cropper company, we got, we had to hire 294 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,880 in a lot of people. That was a bit not difficult, 295 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,480 but that was really a point where we had to like look at 296 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,000 each other and be like, OK, I'm just going to trust that you go 297 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,920 with that and you figure it out. And, and especially when so much 298 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,160 money is between US and time and energy and it's our baby 299 00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,080 together. It's definitely been a little 300 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,840 bit heated to times, but I think that in general, we had a good 301 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,000 we had a good exercise, me and my brother especially because we 302 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,000 have to go to Sunday brunch together with our family. 303 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,520 Yeah, Yeah. And if we've been like fighting 304 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,280 all Friday and then we have to also have the weekend together 305 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,160 with our family, we really have to like, yeah, be nice and play 306 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:10,640 nice. But we've kind of also grown up 307 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:12,440 in a family where you do play nice. 308 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,720 So, yeah, I just got, yeah, that's very important. 309 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,240 But but we've just all been very lucky, I think. 310 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,920 I don't think I could work with that many people, and those two 311 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:24,680 I can. Yeah, yeah. 312 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,880 And I, I completely get that. And I mean we, we've worked with 313 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,000 lots of like husband, wife run businesses or sometimes like, 314 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,560 you know, mother and son or father and daughter kind of 315 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,200 thing businesses. And it's, it's really 316 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,560 interesting seeing the family dynamic. 317 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,040 And normally when we're face to face with them sometimes asking 318 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,440 like you guys obviously family like do you just have a cut off 319 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:43,760 at like 5:00 PM? We do not talk about work at 320 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:45,520 all, almost like we're different, different people 321 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,240 outside of work. And sometimes we get the 322 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:49,840 response of like we actually avoid each other during the day. 323 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,280 Like it's I do this bit on the business, you do that. 324 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:53,440 And it doesn't matter that we're family. 325 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,560 We just kind of crack on. Other families are much more 326 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,080 kind of close knit. And it's like, yeah, every. 327 00:14:57,080 --> 00:14:59,320 And normally when it's husband and wife, I think, or partners, 328 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,120 it's like, yeah, every night it's like talking about the day 329 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,360 at work. And then it's like, you know, 330 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,160 let's kind of go to bed with all of that kind of out of our 331 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,080 heads. And it's just fascinating the 332 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,120 way different brains work and different people kind of 333 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,640 operate, which I find fantastic. The question I want to ask you, 334 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,800 and I love the response as we get to this, I'm really, really 335 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,800 keen to especially for like a sort of sustainable business or 336 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,760 business trying to support the world or people or some sort of 337 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,920 cause. What are some of the biggest 338 00:15:24,920 --> 00:15:28,120 challenges you guys have faced whilst trying? 339 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,040 Like trying to be sustainable whilst turning a profit at the 340 00:15:31,040 --> 00:15:34,440 same time? I think turning a profit in 341 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:39,800 being sustainable, it's we also we kind of develop a line of 342 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,520 products that we all really and designed well and, and we used a 343 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,520 lot of energy on materials and sourcing and and that whole part 344 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:53,280 of the business and ended and actually ending up finding out 345 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,120 that it's actually, yeah, we're not selling enough. 346 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,440 And it's not because the products are not good or people 347 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:02,920 don't understand or they don't want it. 348 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,920 It's because they buy one and then they don't come back 349 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,120 because that's the whole point. It's, it's not buying, you know, 350 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:13,080 thousands of cotton swabs and thousands of menstrual pads. 351 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,520 It's, it's very much, you know, so the whole business model, the 352 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:21,520 whole idea is not very flourishing for, Yeah, for the 353 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:24,760 economic state of the company. Do you ever find that in your 354 00:16:24,760 --> 00:16:27,680 warehouse you have dead stock, You can't sell it, no one wants 355 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:29,040 to buy it, and you can't get a refund on it. 356 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:32,360 Or alternatively, you're missing inventory in your warehouse that 357 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:34,520 you need, you've got sales coming in and you're low on 358 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:37,240 stock and you haven't ordered more stock in time. 359 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,280 All these things hit profit. And I've been there. 360 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,880 I've run my own Shopify store and had exactly that problem. 361 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,040 But we've partnered up with Inventory Planner who have the 362 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,640 most incredible app to help you manage that and forecast exactly 363 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,960 what products, what skews even down to what colour of products 364 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,040 you need to order in advance to make sure stock levels remain 365 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:56,760 consistent throughout. They're also running a seven day 366 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,880 boot camp and if you want to go and sign up to that, it's 7 367 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,600 emails every seven days and it takes the same amount of time as 368 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,200 your morning coffee. And in seven days, like me, you 369 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:05,680 can become an inventory management. 370 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:07,480 Pro. Both links are in the 371 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:08,720 description. Enjoy. 372 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,680 Yeah, yeah. And So what have you done? 373 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,839 I mean, you mentioned the sheets earlier, Do you have more 374 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,160 reusable products then? Like have you guys like almost 375 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,079 like set a metric on it to say every customer now needs to buy 376 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,160 X times from us or X products rather than before? 377 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,520 We were, you know, I, I think I asked you before, so I can't 378 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,319 remember the answer, but I asked you, you're like, how do you 379 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:29,080 grow this business? Because like surely every 380 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:30,800 customer comes in once that's a success. 381 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:32,840 Remember you said it is a challenge, but you've obviously 382 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,680 pivoted since we last spoke. So do you have quite a quite a 383 00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:37,760 big range now of these are products that as you said like 384 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,640 maybe it's once a year, but these are products that will run 385 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,360 out that you will need to replace in a year or two years 386 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,240 or six months, whatever that time frame is? 387 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,760 We have, you know, we have seen a boost in in our reusables 388 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,680 being having been on the market for seven years now that people 389 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,840 are coming back and then they're buying and they're also buying 390 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,200 for other people and all that. And then we have this new line 391 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,640 that was talking about with the slopes that is much more, you 392 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,440 know, every turn customer focused. 393 00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:09,160 But I think for us at least, it's been really hard to figure 394 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,720 out how to or kind of business we want it because you can 395 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:16,480 always, you know, develop a line of products. 396 00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:19,560 I feel like with the usable products, we're kind of like 397 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:22,520 we're not going to put more into that collection. 398 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,960 Like we did all of the things, something, maybe if something 399 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,280 comes up, but we really researched our way through 400 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,440 having the collection that we want it. 401 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:35,320 It's about 8 products. And, and this is like this is 402 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,360 the reusable products that we'll have that replace single use 403 00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:44,360 plastics or single use products. And then, and then we have the 404 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,080 whole soap collection. And and then actually what 405 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,160 happened after the soap collection, we got a lot of 406 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:55,440 investors and we built up the company and was like, is this 407 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:58,440 going to be, you know, a lot of money? 408 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:02,360 And a lot of people have put a lot of money into our company 409 00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:05,680 and we were growing it with, you know, all of these people, all 410 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,640 of this. Yeah, these amazing, amazing, 411 00:19:09,680 --> 00:19:11,680 very, very. I think that's where we talked 412 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:16,000 last time, which is about 3 years ago, where we were 413 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,680 building something that we thought was going to be huge and 414 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,920 we were burning money. We're doing everything right, 415 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,080 you know, in that sense and building that kind of. 416 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then simply finding out that 417 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,320 we're not going to be able to sell enough reusable cotton 418 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,120 swaps like the retail that buys in bulks. 419 00:19:38,120 --> 00:19:41,800 And that was like really, they, they bought in and they, they 420 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,520 didn't sell enough for it. And then we've got into a new 421 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:45,760 chain. They didn't sell enough. 422 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,000 They got into a new chain. You know, we tried to do 423 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,920 everything we could, and we had built like this amazing company 424 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:55,080 with these amazing people that were so strong. 425 00:19:55,080 --> 00:20:00,360 And there was like, not a finger you could put on the team, but 426 00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:05,240 the product itself, which was very, yeah, we was going to save 427 00:20:05,240 --> 00:20:10,200 the world, but it was really just not sustainable to 428 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:14,560 actually, yeah, get enough people to sell or to buy. 429 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:17,960 Yeah, yeah. And for it to grow at that size, 430 00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,400 so we had to downsize, it could definitely like the collection. 431 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:27,280 Everything we've done could, could, yeah, sustainably be run 432 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,040 by a smaller company, but not the $1,000,000 company that we 433 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:32,400 were building. Yeah, Yeah. 434 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:35,000 And I think it's so hard with investment, isn't it? 435 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,040 Because you, you look at the investment and go, great, if we 436 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,720 had that investment, we can then produce more products, wider 437 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,400 range and then put it in more places. 438 00:20:41,840 --> 00:20:45,160 The hard thing, and I've helped clients before, like create a 439 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,440 deck to get investment and, and try and put in some of their 440 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,480 like kind of economic numbers for them. 441 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,200 And I always think there's this gap missing of like you're 442 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,360 asking for investment to do something you've not done 443 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:57,040 before. And the investors are asking the 444 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,360 good question, which is how do we know it's going to work? 445 00:20:59,360 --> 00:21:02,000 And you kind of don't. We feel like it's almost like 446 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,640 saying we'll give us some money and then we'll pay it back 447 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,560 through this medium. I'm I, which is where like 448 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:08,800 investment models, I think can get much, much smarter. 449 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:10,120 And I'm certainly no expert on this. 450 00:21:10,120 --> 00:21:12,360 I'm just speaking from where I've seen clients do this. 451 00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,080 But like one of one of the clients who worked with one of 452 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,240 the investors is a retail outlet online. 453 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,320 So they said, we're going to invest in your business. 454 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,400 We'll take a small percentage, we'll give you a lot of cash and 455 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,800 then we will sell your product through our store. 456 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,360 And no one kind of asked the question of like, what if it 457 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:29,440 doesn't sell in your store? You now own a bit of our 458 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,280 company. You've given us some investment 459 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,480 which is going to cover the cost of getting product to your store 460 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,080 and then nobody buys it. You know, what if it's the wrong 461 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,360 target market, wrong audience. And yeah, in, in those 462 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:41,080 situations. Now the obvious answer is like, 463 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:43,480 well, we'll just give you some stock for free and only pay us 464 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:45,800 if it sells or send it back and let's see if it sells and it 465 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,720 doesn't sell. Well, this whole thing's kind of 466 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,680 on on ice now. Like it's, you know, we've got 467 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,720 to find another way to do this. How do you, I mean, it sounds 468 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:55,680 like you've not got the investors anymore in the same 469 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:57,600 sense like you've kind of changed direction a lot. 470 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,360 But how do you manage those relationships with the investors 471 00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:03,600 whilst the you know, the Co founders plus all of you know, 472 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:05,440 all of the team? How do you keep like kind of 473 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:09,080 everybody on the same same wavelength when it comes to like 474 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,480 this is the strategy of the business. 475 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,440 This is where we're going because they've all got slightly 476 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,800 different, you know, it's different mentality for each 477 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,200 person isn't there? It's different targets, 478 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:20,320 different goals. Yeah, I think, well, at that 479 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:23,320 point in the company, we had ACEO and who's also a childhood 480 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:28,720 friend and he is like, I think he's the best person in the 481 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,480 world to actually be able to manage that kind of thing. 482 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,280 And she was so good at being a good stakeholder. 483 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,000 He was like, you know, calming us. 484 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,520 We all have the same goal, like the investors and us and him and 485 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,640 all, everybody in the team just wanted this company to succeed. 486 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,400 So everybody was putting in the hours, we're putting in the 487 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,680 creativity and, you know, getting down packing if that was 488 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,520 necessary, like everybody was on board and was really giving it 489 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,920 all. And he was very good. 490 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,560 That's again like the team, the people, everything. 491 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,200 There was nothing. It was actually the wrong 492 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:08,440 product, but everything there made sense and it was amazing 493 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:14,600 investors, we also got in. So I think, yeah, no, I, I feel 494 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,560 like the goal, I feel like everything else made sense and, 495 00:23:18,560 --> 00:23:22,520 and actually was very point on. And but it is just like you 496 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,160 said, like if you just, if you make a whole machine and you put 497 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:30,520 all of this effort and you build this company and then you put in 498 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,320 the products and we could show, you know, oh, look at this 499 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,240 little tiny store. They're selling so much. 500 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:40,920 Like why can a giant huge mall not sell, you know, the 501 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,520 equivalent? So I think it's just very it 502 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,840 there's, it was a very, it is a very niche market that we were 503 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:52,360 in and we simply just found out too late. 504 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,400 Yeah, yeah. Which I mean, you live and 505 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:55,520 learn. I've made some horrendous 506 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,120 decisions over the years, which which I won't talk about today 507 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:00,080 because we've not got long enough. 508 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,280 But what I guess what, given where you are now, what was one 509 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:05,640 of the biggest lessons you learned? 510 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,480 Was it, would you say it was about that product? 511 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,280 Was it the the product was the wrong fit? 512 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,040 We had the whole machine, but the products we put forward was 513 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,280 the wrong one. We should have gone with 514 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,880 something else. We're definitely we're testing a 515 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,520 lot now and not just testing, you know the design and how to 516 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,400 make it and what how functions should be or something like 517 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000 that. But we are really testing 518 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:33,120 marketing and getting really sharp at at Meta really sharp 519 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:38,880 and how and, and not just not just, you know, resting on 520 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:42,640 figures of like, oh, this looked like this, like this is going to 521 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,440 be huge, but more resting on actual facts and and being very 522 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:51,600 critical on our own products. So, yeah, so we kind of did a 523 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:57,880 shift actually I'll just jump in and just that's kind of our our 524 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,480 main, the main shift that's happened now is that we we had 525 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,240 to downsize the company. We were actually we went from 35 526 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:12,560 employees down to like us 3 again, the three Co founders and 527 00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,520 and we moved down. We moved from like a office 528 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,000 building down into the basement. And so we did like the whole 529 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,040 like physical shift and like mental shift and it was just us 530 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,800 three. And then we started cleaning up 531 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,880 in the company, you know, making sure that all the processes were 532 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,160 so smooth as possible and everything made sense so that we 533 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,120 could so that we actually made a profit. 534 00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,600 And when we turned a profit, then we looked at each other and 535 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:41,240 we were like, OK, what now? Does anybody want to like have 536 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:43,200 this business? Like, what do you actually 537 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,960 dream? We've been using the last six 538 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:52,200 years of our lives on running so fast on, you know, also having 539 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,480 families at home and, and, and really want, you know, that when 540 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:00,400 you're like, yeah, a workaholic or a person that's very driven 541 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,880 to what they're doing, like it's just, you are, yeah, you're 542 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,240 missing other things. So we looked at, we were like, 543 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,800 right now we could just close up and we could, or we could sell 544 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:16,120 it and we could just like, not that we would make a lot or 545 00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:18,680 anything, but we could like get out and then we could actually 546 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:20,600 just do whatever we wanted to do again. 547 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,760 And then we went home to our families and we thought about it 548 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:29,120 and then we met up and we just ended up saying we want to 549 00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,320 design again. All of us. 550 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:37,920 Yeah, we've been like producing and shipping and and selling and 551 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,240 all these things. So we we went back to having our 552 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,840 business and just like running our our sales and running the 553 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,240 company as as it is now. And then we started for the 554 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:50,880 first time in four years. It was absolutely amazing 555 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:55,600 designing again and creating amazing products in the way that 556 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,600 we're actually that's actually what we can. 557 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,320 That's actually where we are best. 558 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600 I'm not best and in the in trying to figure out what the 559 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,440 cheapest shipping to Germany is, I'm actually passed in, you 560 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,840 know, figuring out what the next product is. 561 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:14,880 So we made for very few months, we made like 5 amazing products 562 00:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,880 and then we put them all up and then we let ads decide which one 563 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,320 we actually wanted to go further with. 564 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:24,800 So it's nice. Yeah. 565 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,240 So we're doing so we're kind of like a design incubator of new 566 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,800 products and it's in all different ranges, music, 567 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:37,200 cooking, plants. Yeah, yeah, I love that. 568 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,960 And I think the note I've just written down and I've said this 569 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,320 loads of times on the show and when people ask me like what's 570 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,600 it like running a company, my normal response is like, no one 571 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,040 warned me about this. Like you, you mentioned the 572 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,080 shipping rates to Germany that there must be 1000. 573 00:27:53,120 --> 00:27:54,360 I'm not and I'm not exaggerating. 574 00:27:54,360 --> 00:27:55,920 There's at least 1000. Things like that. 575 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,480 You have to learn. Nobody warns you because no, 576 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,400 there's no, there's no one who could warn you because every 577 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,240 business is so unique. So like, you find yourself in 578 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,680 these situations going like, I mean, even I won't say what 579 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,480 because it's obviously HR and confidential, but even even 580 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:12,800 yesterday I got 2 messages from my team and it was Sunday, 2 581 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,400 messages from my team saying like, oh, this is going on or 582 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,640 that's going on. It affects work. 583 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:18,560 And it's like, how did I end up in this situation? 584 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,680 Like, I don't know if I just just get to work. 585 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,720 Like, you know, I love my team and yeah, and I'd always look 586 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:26,960 after them, but there are these moments going like nobody warned 587 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,800 me about like what this is actually going to involve. 588 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,640 I want to go the total opposite end of the scale. 589 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,440 So that's something you mentioned and I want to dig more 590 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,000 into this because I think this is fascinating. 591 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,640 Let's let the ads decide. I think that is the catch phrase 592 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,920 for any business. I, I, I love that. 593 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,440 Talk me more through that process. 594 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,440 What metrics you're looking at, what kind of ads you're actually 595 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,680 running. You mentioned meta. 596 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:49,000 Is it meta ads? How does that process then 597 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:51,640 unfold into you doing what you want to do, which is designing? 598 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,160 So we get really fast at getting. 599 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,080 Doesn't even have to be a working prototype, it just has 600 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:01,920 to be like an idea and then designing it so that we can hold 601 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:06,960 it in our hands and have like, so and then we do videos like 602 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,200 UGC videos, I just make them like in my kitchen, like, oh, 603 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,480 I've done this and I put this in and now this is working. 604 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,360 And then you kind of like we got to fake it. 605 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,640 So you make it so we're like we're as we're designing an app, 606 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:22,400 I'm just like showing something that looks like an app and it's 607 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,800 just a screen dump, you know so yeah, so it's it's really all 608 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,920 about like creating as much as we can to explain the product 609 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,200 and then making, you know, 5 images. 610 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:37,560 It can also be renders and visualizations and then we just 611 00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,360 put them into settings so people kind of feel like it is a real 612 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,880 product. And and then we make it yeah, 5 613 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:50,120 videos, 5 image ads and we typically just do the same text 614 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,280 bit, but you could start AB testing that too. 615 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:59,280 But and then we just run them all in the same, in the same ad 616 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,680 or one app, but like in the same group so that we kind of know 617 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,000 exactly like it's and then the algorithm starts understanding 618 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,760 what is actually being clicked on. 619 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,680 What are people looking at? And then we built it up in the 620 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,000 beginning. It was just like, you know, it 621 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:18,080 was actually three products. I think we ended up launching 622 00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,880 and then we showed the three products in these like, you 623 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,560 know, different ads and and then we started just looking at 624 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:29,560 people that just clicked just subscribed, OK, when it's live, 625 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:34,400 I'll put in my e-mail. And then when we got a layer 626 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,400 more that was like, do you want to put in a dollar? 627 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,240 And then you get even more discount when it comes out, then 628 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,920 you can kind of really see what people actually are ready their 629 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,280 money on. And then we just ran it and 630 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,280 actually we had put up like, OK, this, this is going to run like 631 00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:56,440 a week. And after 1 1/2 day, my brother 632 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,240 called me and said, you know, I hate you. 633 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,440 We're closing all the other products and yours 1. 634 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:09,760 So it was very, it actually really told us very quickly what 635 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,120 people. And it wasn't the product that 636 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:15,160 we thought was going to work. Even I I even made the one that 637 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:19,240 one, but the one that the other ones, or at least one of them I 638 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,600 thought was going to be huge. And like that is, and a lot of 639 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,560 people afterwards who heard about all the different designs 640 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,920 have been like, why didn't you go with BB is much better. 641 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:33,920 Like I know that's also how I feel, but this is what they're 642 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,360 telling us. It's a trend. 643 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:37,320 It's something is happening here. 644 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,200 I think what you've done though, which I think is really, really 645 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,440 powerful, is when you had your investors and you were trying to 646 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,080 sell through wholesale and through other retailers, you 647 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:50,360 lose control of the process. I think it's no surprise. 648 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,920 I don't think that there's that one store there, one little shop 649 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,360 you mentioned. It's like these guys are selling 650 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,720 tons of these things. And actually, if you could go 651 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:58,880 back and you know, hindsight's a lovely thing, but if you go 652 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,520 back, you'd probably go, well, let's find 1000 of those. 653 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:04,000 Like that's the business model. It works and it's the same what 654 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:05,040 you think you're doing with testing now. 655 00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,280 I, it, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest now how businesses 656 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,640 don't understand their data enough. 657 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:16,120 And I think what you guys and I think, correct me if I'm wrong. 658 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:18,480 And I, and I, I mean this in a, in a really kind of healthy way 659 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,720 as to where you've landed. Like you guys are now, like 660 00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,640 you're listening to the data and doing it for the customer rather 661 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,440 than what a lot of businesses do. 662 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,800 We come along and says they, they, they're like, look, we're 663 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,400 God's gift. We're amazing. 664 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,200 Like, you know, we're sent from the gods and we just need to be 665 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,240 in front of more people. So we come in and we start 666 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,760 telling the advertising budget up and it's like, it's not 667 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:38,840 selling, like we're not getting more sales here. 668 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,040 And then we have a look and go, the only people buying from you 669 00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:42,920 are people looking for your name on Google. 670 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:45,800 So we, we, we probably would have discovered that as part of, 671 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,880 you know, the kind of research process initially. 672 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,560 And you realise what's actually making this business tick is 673 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,840 repeat customers. But it, they look new because 674 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,040 they're coming through Meta and Google and actually, but it's 675 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,360 repeat orders and you start to look into the data. 676 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:01,160 We, we saw a business a couple of weeks ago where we, we said 677 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:02,440 to them, what are your top selling brands? 678 00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,160 And they listed them all. And I think they listed about 6 679 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,720 or 7 and two of them, we were like, no, they're not, they're 680 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,560 not on any of your data. Like, no one's buying those. 681 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:12,320 So like, but we've got tons of it. 682 00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:14,280 And then someone else in the room said, yeah, yeah, you, 683 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:16,000 you're the buyer. I'm the one who's got to send 684 00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:18,080 all that stock back when we haven't sold it back to that 685 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,520 brand. Like they're not a big selling 686 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,320 brand for us. And they're like, really was 687 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,320 like, why are we spending so much? 688 00:33:22,320 --> 00:33:24,120 Like, well, I don't know, but we do need to stop. 689 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,240 I did mention it the other day. And it's like just this kind of 690 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,520 feedback loop of data going on. And I'm kind of sitting there in 691 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:31,800 the middle of the room saying, well, look, if you hire us, we 692 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:33,640 can put that on a live dashboard for you. 693 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,600 I can tell you what stock you've got, what's actually selling. 694 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,640 They're like, really? And I'm like, yeah, because if 695 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,360 it's not selling, I don't want to put it in the ads. 696 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,040 I don't want to SEO optimize it because this is a waste of time 697 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:45,960 because no one's buying it. Like we just sell the stuff that 698 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,880 people are buying. And you're 5th on Google for 699 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,760 that, or you're selling loads of this, but you're not spending 700 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:51,920 enough on it. Quick pivot and bang, we're #1 701 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,880 and we're selling more of that. We're advertising these products 702 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,160 because they're selling. And I think I love the fact that 703 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,960 you guys have have got that kind of clarification now with that, 704 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,280 that feedback loop. And you make it sound so simple. 705 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,800 But as a founder, I'm, you know, a Co founder, I'm sure you would 706 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,040 agree with me that like, it's a lot of soul searching to finally 707 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,639 admit like that's the thing that's making the business tick. 708 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:12,000 And I can't argue with it anymore. 709 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,400 So actually I'm going to double down and and kind of move into 710 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,040 that space, even though I wanted to go down a different Rd. 711 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:18,280 Like that's where we're going to go. 712 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:20,199 And I love the fact your Co founder said I hate you. 713 00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:22,239 I'm sure he meant putting putting emoji with the text. 714 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:26,280 But but if it's that whole process, isn't it, I mean, how 715 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,400 different would you guys say you are as a business now that you 716 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:31,800 use that data and you take that approach rather than just there, 717 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,679 this product's amazing, like all the thousands of them and double 718 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:37,199 down on it. We've always actually, I feel 719 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,880 like we've always done this in the company. 720 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,159 We've like always, you know, had questionnaires like, oh, what 721 00:34:42,159 --> 00:34:45,040 colour do you like what? But I think what we're doing now 722 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:49,239 is it's not just like it's not just changing different things 723 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,480 and the products are like pivoting or trying to figure out 724 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,600 how to sell it. In different words. 725 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:56,239 This is like this is our main thing. 726 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:58,960 This is like somebody else or I've designed it, but like 727 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:01,400 somebody else is deciding what we are going to do the next 728 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:03,320 three years of our lives. Yeah, yeah. 729 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,480 That's what's like very interesting. 730 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:07,000 I think that. And it's the buyer as well, 731 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:08,960 isn't it? It's the buyers deciding which I 732 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:10,320 love. Exactly. 733 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,720 Yeah. And we don't really, we're 734 00:35:11,720 --> 00:35:14,480 sitting here in our basement like thinking that we know what 735 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,520 is going on in the world and what people actually want to do. 736 00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,160 And, and it's kind of like sometimes you can really, really 737 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,040 fall in love with a product that, well, we figured that out 738 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,480 where you could really fall in love with a product that is just 739 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:30,960 not going to make that company that you want or yeah. 740 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,600 And then I would rather go back. This doesn't happen to have to 741 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,800 sell that much. I love this process. 742 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,640 And if we can actually keep doing this, then we can keep 743 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,560 designing and not have this huge sales team because we're just 744 00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:46,560 going to do it from like product to product. 745 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,600 Then we'll do a huge Kickstarter and then and we can supply 746 00:35:51,600 --> 00:35:54,880 afterwards, of course. But like this really opens up 747 00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,600 for us actually having our dream company without too many people 748 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,120 involved and with the flexibility of being able to do 749 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,280 what we do best, design. I just want to interrupt today's 750 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,800 episode talk about some big news for Shopify merchants. 751 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,080 Yopo, which you might be using is Sun setting as e-mail and SMS 752 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:14,680 products. You may have got an e-mail from 753 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:16,520 them and if you haven't, this might be the first time you 754 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,320 hearing about this. So if you have been using them, 755 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:19,960 then you might be wondering what's next? 756 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:22,160 Well, our sponsor Saguno has you covered. 757 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,960 Saguno is the most deeply integrated e-mail marketing 758 00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,640 platform for Shopify and make switching really, really simple 759 00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,880 with hands on onboarding, migration help and 760 00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,680 deliverability expertise. Right now with code WWS 20, you 761 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,840 get 20% of your first three months with Saguno. 762 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,520 So don't let your marketing skip a beat. 763 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:42,040 Switch to Saguno today at saguno.com/winning with Shopify. 764 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,480 Yeah, Yeah. And you mentioned Kickstarter, 765 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,120 Tell me more like, is that every time you've got a new product, 766 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,400 is that where you push it initially to get those 767 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,080 pre-orders and start getting some cash in and awareness on 768 00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:55,400 it? Yeah, Yeah, I think awareness 769 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,920 bit is really, really big. And also I think it's a really 770 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:03,480 good process actually. Like As for us, like we're 771 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,720 sitting now doing I'm doing a Kickstarter, I'm actually 772 00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,120 filming right now in my living room of a dough that's like 773 00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,640 rising so I can use that into the. 774 00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,920 So we're like, we're we're doing a video where we're really 775 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,040 explaining the product into detail, but also having it 776 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:22,320 catchy enough for it to be a meta ad afterwards. 777 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:26,560 And and then we're also doing a page explaining that you're 778 00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,360 doing Kickstarter. Like, what is this product? 779 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,720 What why is it amazing? And then doing different and 780 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:35,920 pledges or like, you know, yeah, how we're going to sell this 781 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,080 off. And it's such a good way to also 782 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,480 show like, OK, this is a product, this is what we're 783 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:43,160 doing. Then we have a sales channel, 784 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:45,800 but what you also have, you're going to have other people look 785 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,920 at it, feel like I can sell this in my store, but I can sell this 786 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,440 and this and this. And then before we even push the 787 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,520 button on production, we of course have a number of how many 788 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,360 people, but we maybe also have some kind of retail order that 789 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,680 will go into that bunch. So it's, it's just a really good 790 00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:08,000 way of not having, yeah, of putting too much cash into 791 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:11,120 something that you don't really know it's going to fly or not. 792 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:16,680 And then suddenly you're sitting down with stock or you're paying 793 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,000 for all this stock that is sitting in a warehouse 794 00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,680 somewhere, and you're just like, OK, I'll have 10 years to like, 795 00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:24,160 get through this. Yeah. 796 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:27,360 And there's again, just for the time we won't talk about today, 797 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,240 but there's a whole, there's a whole like archive of strategies 798 00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,800 of how to get rid of some of that old stock. 799 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,400 But it is it's discounts, it's giving some of it away like in 800 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,440 if it was going to drive profit, it would have done that in the 801 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,640 1st place. Well, I love the fact you guys 802 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,360 are using Kickstarter to pre empt that. 803 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:42,680 I think one of the interesting things you mentioned as well 804 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:45,600 when it comes to stockists. So doing wholesale with some of 805 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,000 the products is the better you position. 806 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:49,720 Well, the better. Firstly, like this is a product 807 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:51,960 people want and we check the data and people do want this 808 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,040 product. They're engaging with this 809 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,680 thing. So we're going to make some of 810 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,360 them. And then running a Kickstarter 811 00:38:56,360 --> 00:39:00,800 with good content that helps the next person along in the chain 812 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,000 who's going to sell it to the end customer in through 813 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:06,080 wholesale or retail. It gives them so much more to go 814 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,720 after because you've got to think how many products they're 815 00:39:08,720 --> 00:39:12,440 finding, seeing, being pitched to all the time, saying you 816 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:14,520 should stop this because you know you're going to get a big 817 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,840 order if you stock my product. They're getting that all the 818 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,560 time. So the better the content and 819 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,040 positioning and hey, look, people are buying this like 820 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,160 crazy from us and you can stock it in your shop as well. 821 00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:28,000 It starts to build such a better profile to make that a success, 822 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,160 doesn't it? Which also helps you long term. 823 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,360 Then if even if you guys struggle to sell it, having at 824 00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,480 least one stock is selling it. Well, you could say no, we're 825 00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,840 happy to give you a bit more of a discount on that. 826 00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,720 We're struggling to sell them, but you're selling loads of 827 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:40,400 these things, so why don't you just take all of them? 828 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:42,120 Yeah, yeah, fine. Especially if there's a better, 829 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,520 better margin because I know I'm selling them. 830 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:46,800 So I think that it gives you so many more opportunities on that. 831 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,640 Do do you find it's better then to design with a better brief of 832 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,440 we know people are interested or going to buy this product or or 833 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:55,560 we know people bought lots of that product and were close 834 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,280 enough to the data and the customers on the ground. 835 00:39:57,600 --> 00:39:59,880 So now designing actually I've got a better brief going the 836 00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,560 next version or the next thing I'm designing, it's going to 837 00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,560 really help people and I've got data to support that does that. 838 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,920 Would you say as a designer that helps you kind of narrow 839 00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,960 yourself down into, yeah, this is, this is, this is a good. 840 00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,360 Thing and therefore it's easier to design rather than just a 841 00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:16,280 blank piece of paper. Definitely, definitely, yeah. 842 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,440 Cuz we're always, we have new ideas constantly. 843 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:23,320 And I think what is actually what I've seen the last couple 844 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,840 of months is that now when we're back in our designing phase and 845 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:30,440 we're figuring out we could also do like a land mower that could 846 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,440 do this and this and you could grab the snails. 847 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,240 And we have all these weird, weird design ideas. 848 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,280 Yeah, yeah. And I think that all of this, 849 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:42,040 all these ideas, they just like, they make us figure out a find 850 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:44,080 new ideas new. So it's such a good way for 851 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,840 actually, you know, people to say, OK, stop. 852 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:50,000 No, actually that one I would buy like these are really funny, 853 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:54,720 but no, you know, so I think it's a really good way to as a 854 00:40:54,720 --> 00:40:56,840 designer to be a little bit restricted. 855 00:40:57,040 --> 00:41:02,560 And now we're of course, we're finalizing this this product so 856 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,400 that we're really, really sharp when we launch. 857 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,560 And this is also now we have, you know, I have 5000 emails 858 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:11,840 signed up to get this product when it goes live. 859 00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:16,240 And we've emailed them like have a questionnaire. 860 00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,400 What is the most important thing in the app? 861 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,280 Is it to know how your dough is rising? 862 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,280 Is it to know data about all the dough that you've had? 863 00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,800 Like, so we're also really refining our now product with 864 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:30,120 this customer group that's ready to buy. 865 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,560 Plus, they're really engaged and they've. 866 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:35,720 Helped you make it. I mean, that's, that's amazing, 867 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:36,800 yeah. Completely. 868 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,280 And we're really in doubt sometimes like I we were talking 869 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:44,400 about we should have like a glass bowl or like a plastic 870 00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,520 bowl to have the fermenting of a sourdough. 871 00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:52,360 And we asked them, we put in a questionnaire and said like OK, 872 00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:56,120 glass or plastic. And of course I didn't put 873 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,200 plastic. I said it's making me. 874 00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,640 Hungry on something blah blah. Yep. 875 00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,200 I mean that that, yeah, I mean, that's amazing. 876 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,400 And so many businesses, successful businesses we've 877 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,080 spoken to, they have that in, in the earlier days, they have that 878 00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:11,720 community, that focus group, that one to one relationship. 879 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,520 And then long term it's how do you do that with brands and 880 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,320 actually having a brand that people feel connected to, even 881 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,360 though you're 1 of like 20 million people that have bought, 882 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,040 bought a product from them, It's like having that connection long 883 00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:24,480 term. I'm going to ask you one more 884 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,520 last question to come in to land now and you might have already 885 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,160 covered a bit of this, but I'm really keen to see what you say 886 00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:31,880 to this. If you could go back and change 887 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,640 one thing, only one one thing in your journey as a business, what 888 00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,320 one thing would you change or do differently or just totally 889 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,600 different mindset with the knowledge you've got now? 890 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,200 I know hindsight is a lovely thing and you can't change the 891 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,760 past, but what would you go back and change if someone else's 892 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,160 starting a similar journey to to where you guys have been? 893 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:50,200 I would, I would. I know there's. 894 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,080 Probably 10 things we will learn lessons, but yeah. 895 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,480 I would, no, I would definitely cut my darlings earlier. 896 00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,960 Yeah, OK. And so in, in the like in the 897 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,560 beginning of some of our designs and our reusable line, there 898 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:10,960 were some indications of some of our products being too expensive 899 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:15,440 or, or not or like it was hard to find like a market for them. 900 00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:20,040 And, and we were like, so we so wanted to make a collection of 901 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,160 reusable items that we were like, we're on a mission. 902 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:27,280 And now I still after so many years have so much stock with of 903 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:31,920 some of the products because they're just price wise and 904 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,600 they're maybe just a bit, some of them are some of my favorite 905 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,800 products. So like I like a lot of stock 906 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,720 for them. I think they're amazing and we 907 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,320 will like it gets through. It's not that, but it's just 908 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,600 that it's so important to actually when you get that maybe 909 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:50,560 this is maybe this should be a bit, maybe we should drop this 910 00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:53,720 product then you should have dropped it 5 weeks ago. 911 00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,680 So killing your darlings. I think that's, that's something 912 00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:02,560 that we should have done faster. And Sunset, we've had some 913 00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,640 products where, where they're good and we can sell them out, 914 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:10,880 but like just like don't order them again sets like sell them 915 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:14,760 out and then do something new. And so I think that's been 916 00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,480 really, really good for us to sunset also mentally. 917 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:21,520 So you don't suddenly have a company that has like 1 billion 918 00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,600 products. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 919 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,040 And I, I think from a customer point of view as well, you guys 920 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,480 having like 80%, these are products you're already looking 921 00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,240 for already one. We've just got a much better 922 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:32,600 version. It's well priced, it's well 923 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,240 positioned and all the kind of boxes of tick for customer. 924 00:44:35,240 --> 00:44:38,040 And then 20% kind of here's something you should be 925 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,960 interested in, but it relates to all your previous things. 926 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:42,400 It's not as you say, it's not too expensive. 927 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:43,960 It's in the right space, it does the right thing. 928 00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,600 I think it's amazing. Well, thank you so much, Isabel 929 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,920 for coming on the show again. We'll get you back on in three 930 00:44:49,920 --> 00:44:51,200 years and find out what's been going on then. 931 00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:53,720 I'm I'm quite excited to see through the journey now I 932 00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,400 deliberately don't look up what's going on when we get 933 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,440 people back on because I want to see what what's been happening 934 00:44:58,440 --> 00:44:59,920 for you. If people are listening to this 935 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,040 going, this sounds incredible. All my problems like you're one 936 00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,560 step ahead of where we are like what's the website? 937 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,400 What are the social handles? How can people reach out? 938 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:09,480 How can people follow you guys? How can people buy the products? 939 00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,800 Well, all of our products are on lastobject.com and we're now 940 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,520 also better objects.com and which is gonna be where we 941 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,600 launch all our new products that aren't necessarily in the 942 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:24,880 sustainability and yeah, area, but can be all different kinds 943 00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:29,800 of products. But on Instagram Last Object and 944 00:45:29,800 --> 00:45:32,560 better Objects Instagram, it's going to be where we launch 945 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:33,800 everything. So that's that's. 946 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,400 Going to be the fun stuff. Is it there, the wacky ideas? 947 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:38,480 I love that. I love that. 948 00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:40,320 Well, thank you so much as well. It's been great to have you. 949 00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,680 Appreciate you being so honest, so open, telling us about the 950 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,480 journey you guys have been on. So yeah, thank you so much. 951 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:45,880 Thank you. Have a good day. 952 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,480 For everybody listening at home, I'll be back again on Tuesday 953 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,120 with another. I've been doing these little 954 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:51,960 rants recently. Not really rants, but I've been 955 00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:55,480 talking about random elements from my experience of things I 956 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,320 don't generally really do. And I've had so much response 957 00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,480 from you guys being like, that's my problem. 958 00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:02,040 Like can you find me someone to help with this from design to 959 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:04,040 e-mail to what AI is doing at the moment stuff as well. 960 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:06,120 So if you want to check any of those out and they're called 961 00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:08,760 Tuesday Tea Break talks. I'm British and I drink tea and 962 00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:11,560 Christie Atlantic love it. So that's why we named it that. 963 00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,280 But we'll be back again on next Friday with another guest as 964 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:15,360 well. Thank you so much for tuning in. 965 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,560 If you haven't already, leave us a review on whatever platform 966 00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:19,640 you listened to this on. Leave us a comment on Spotify if 967 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,280 you're listening on Spotify and also click subscribe as well. 968 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,160 So many of you guys are not subscribed, but you listen every 969 00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:25,840 single week. If you hit subscribe, it helps 970 00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,440 more people find the show helps us grow what we're doing get 971 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,560 more feedback and we can have even better content for all of 972 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,040 you guys as well. Thanks for tuning in, hope you 973 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,400 can join us again next time. Yost have just. 974 00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,320 Launched something that is absolutely game changing. 975 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:41,600 Their new AI Brand Insights tool is now in beta, and it's built 976 00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,560 to help you track your brand's visibility, sentiment and 977 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,760 credibility across AI platforms like Chatter GBT. 978 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:51,440 As search expands from Google to AI Answers, this tool gives you 979 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,360 a clearview of how your brand shows up, combining sentiment, 980 00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,680 visibility. And it's designed for marketers 981 00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,320 who want enterprise level insight without the enterprise 982 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,680 price less than $400.00 per year. 983 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,360 And here's the best bit. Yost Black Friday sale is now 984 00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:10,720 on, so starting November 27th, you'll get a 30% discount off 985 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:15,120 all annual plans, including the new Yost SEOAI Plus. 986 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,440 Head to yost.com to learn more and grab your discount.