1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,800 In 2025, paid ads are going to continue to go up. 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,000 There's going to be interesting political stuff that happens, 4 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:10,440 but that's not what this podcast is about. 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,040 Thankfully, yes, yeah, I need to do some sums. 6 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:15,280 How much is it going to cost me? What impacts are going to have 7 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:16,800 if? Your business is doing like 8 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,400 1,000,000 to $10 million a year and someone's trying to sell you 9 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,240 like a fully custom Shopify theme. 10 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:23,680 Tell them to kick rocks. You don't need it and. 11 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,440 We're like, what the hell have you done? 12 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:27,760 And I was like, what kind of power trip are you on here? 13 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:30,280 If you think you're going to fix your business for less than 14 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,640 $1000, you are listening to the wrong podcast. 15 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,440 Do you ever find that in your warehouse you have dead stock, 16 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,440 You can't sell it, no one wants to buy it, and you can't get a 17 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,240 refund on it. Or alternatively, you're missing 18 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,160 inventory in your warehouse that you need, you've got sales 19 00:00:45,160 --> 00:00:47,920 coming in and you're low on stock and you haven't ordered 20 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,120 more stock. In time, all these things hit 21 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:51,240 profit. And I've been there. 22 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,880 I've run my own Shopify store and had exactly that problem, 23 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,040 but we've partnered up with Inventory Planner who have the 24 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,640 most incredible app to help you manage that and forecast exactly 25 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,000 what products, what skews even down to what colour of products 26 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,040 you need to order in advance to make sure stock levels remain 27 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,800 consistent throughout. They're also running a seven day 28 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,880 boot camp and if you want to go and sign up to that, it's 7 29 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,640 emails every seven days and it takes the same amount of time as 30 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,200 your morning coffee. And in seven days, like me, you 31 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,000 can become an inventory management pro. 32 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:20,080 Both links are in the description. 33 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:26,040 Enjoy Chase, welcome to the show. 34 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:28,800 How are you? I'm good Nick, we have been 35 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,000 chatting now for 15 minutes and forgot to press record. 36 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:34,120 We've been having a great time. Yeah, Good, good. 37 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:35,680 Well, anyway, welcome to the show. 38 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,600 And yeah, if anyone wants to hear Chase and I talk more than 39 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:40,240 just this episode or hear more from Chase. 40 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,720 Chase, before I ask you what you do and everything else, tell us 41 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,760 about your podcast because I'm. I would have been on it 42 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,000 yesterday when this episode goes out in January. 43 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:48,480 So yeah, tell us. Tell us about your podcast. 44 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,280 Yeah, yeah. So I am the host of the Honest 45 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:55,720 e-commerce podcast. We're, I think we're top 5% in 46 00:01:55,720 --> 00:02:00,240 the US We put out an episode every week and then we do bonus 47 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:02,880 episodes about every other week. And that's what I I'd nick on a 48 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,120 bonus episode that when this airs, it would have been 49 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:10,039 yesterday when it came out. So go Google Honesty Commerce or 50 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:12,480 search for it on whatever podcast app that you like. 51 00:02:12,920 --> 00:02:14,480 It'll pop up. It's blue. 52 00:02:14,640 --> 00:02:18,360 Got picture me? There's a cool logo, so 53 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,040 subscribe to that for sure, but the main feed I'm interviewing 54 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,680 brands, usually telling their founders story. 55 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,720 I've had a lot of really interesting, like I've had smile 56 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,480 direct club on the show before, butcher box hex clad. 57 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,040 So it's really cool to hear how people built these, you know, 58 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,120 awesome brands, but also have some super niche brands on. 59 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,520 And I, I really love getting into the weeds on that stuff. 60 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,280 Learning, you know, just going from zero to 1, I think is the 61 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,320 hardest thing for a lot of brands is like, how did you, how 62 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:48,320 did you get those first customers beyond the, you know, 63 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:50,120 your friends and family? So I'm always asking that 64 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,200 question. And then I have super smart 65 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,480 people like Nick on for bonus episodes talking about, you 66 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,640 know, I believe we talked about what was going to go on in 2025. 67 00:02:59,640 --> 00:03:02,000 We're going to kind of revisit that conversation here today, I 68 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:04,400 believe, but all sorts of fun stuff. 69 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,000 So check that out. Yeah, yeah. 70 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,960 And I think excitingly, like all good organised humans, Chase and 71 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:10,760 I are recording this well in advance, so it's at least a 72 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,480 month before it goes out. And when we recorded mine, it 73 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,960 was nearly two months before that date in January. 74 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,440 So when we recorded mine, we were talking kind of like 75 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,720 predictions for Black Friday. When we're talking now we're off 76 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,640 the cyber weekend by, we're talking hours, even less hours 77 00:03:24,640 --> 00:03:25,800 for you, Chase, because you're in the US. 78 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:28,280 So we're talking hours after cyber's finished. 79 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,920 So let's kick off there before we talk about what people should 80 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:34,760 be doing in 2025. How have you found Black Friday 81 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:37,440 and cyber in general, sales in general? 82 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,080 And caveat question, I'm throwing up 20 questions that 83 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,000 you're here. How has the election also 84 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:45,480 impacted that this year compared to previous years or compared to 85 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:47,480 what might have happened? Yeah, to keep the answer just 86 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:53,280 straight down the middle, there were a lot of merchants on the. 87 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,280 Everyone was waiting to see what was going to happen. 88 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,440 And you know, some people are happy with the result, some 89 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:00,800 people are not happy with the result. 90 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:06,760 But regardless, there was a result and they all learned, OK, 91 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:09,600 we have to move forward. There's no reason to to to wait. 92 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,000 So there was actually a lot of deals that we have on the table 93 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:17,640 for projects for the agency that kind of waited until after that. 94 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:19,440 And people moved forward because of it. 95 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,560 Historically, money is pretty cheap during Republican 96 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:25,840 presidencies. So I believe, you know, I think 97 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:28,880 the economy is going to do fine. There's going to be, you know, 98 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:30,720 interesting political stuff that happens. 99 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:32,160 But that's not what this podcast is about. 100 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:34,680 Thankfully. Yes, yeah. 101 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,640 But kind of once that happened, I think I'll like a lot of 102 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,160 people shifted their gears and their focus, they're like, OK, 103 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:44,000 well, that happened. Now we're focusing on Black 104 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,080 Friday, now we're focusing on Cyber Monday. 105 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:51,800 And so it kind of was just like a, a, a weird kind of just like 106 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,360 pause for a couple weeks there. Yeah. 107 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,720 And I think it's been interesting in the UK as well 108 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,720 that we we had a budget where the government basically tells 109 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,520 us how much more tax they're going to charge in October. 110 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,760 And a lot of people, a lot of brands were waiting for that 111 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:06,040 before hitting the execute button. 112 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:07,880 And it wasn't the budget we expected. 113 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,880 The taxes weren't going up as much as we expected, but where 114 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:11,880 they were going up was a bit unexpected. 115 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,600 So with all of that, it took a little bit of time I think as 116 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,760 well for retailers and merchants to actually catch up with like, 117 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,240 OK, this has changed, I need to do some sums. 118 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,600 How much is it going to cost me? What impact is it going to have? 119 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,360 And I think consumers were doing the same as well because we saw 120 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,280 like a week or two where just nothing happened and then it 121 00:05:27,280 --> 00:05:28,960 bounced. Whereas I think when Trump was 122 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,760 announced, the UK, you know, whatever, whichever way people 123 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:35,720 go politically, the UK economy bounced a little bit. 124 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,600 And our government like stupidly took credit for it at first 125 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,720 until someone pointed out actually, no, just lots of UK 126 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,360 investments are in dollars and the dollar has gone up. 127 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,320 So our investments have gone up. The pound's actually come down, 128 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,200 guys. And the, our main economy is 129 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:51,000 like not done. It's still bad. 130 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,440 It's not still not doing what it needs to, but there is that 131 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,760 little jump and it how has that gone on to affect things like is 132 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,520 it business as usual now? Has it been higher? 133 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,360 Has it been lower? What are you seeing for some of 134 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,760 the merchants that I should have got you to explain what you do. 135 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,640 Chase runs an agency everywhere, so we build Shopify stores and 136 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:08,600 yeah, working with e-commerce brands. 137 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:11,960 But how have you guys found it? Like what impact has that had 138 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:17,640 and was any of it surprising? I think that sales are we 139 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,560 talking about like winning, like our agency winning deals with 140 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:25,360 clients or our clients success selling their products to their 141 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,520 customers on their stores. I think both. 142 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,200 I'd love to hear how each because 11 does create the other 143 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:31,920 doesn't it? Like customers buy stuff then 144 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,000 they have. Money if if they have an influx 145 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,560 of customers and they want to reinvest that money in a partner 146 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,360 that can help them, you know, see an ROI from that investment. 147 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:46,960 I think that Black Friday is still, I haven't got the numbers 148 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,240 back in this, you know, on this is giving Tuesday when we're 149 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:50,760 recording this. So there hasn't been like a 150 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:53,640 Shopify hasn't even announced like what they did as far as 151 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,560 global sales, which they do every year. 152 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,360 But the trend I'm I think it's going to, it's probably going to 153 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,640 beat last year just because everything's more expensive. 154 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,040 But I don't think it's going to be like by a crazy amount. 155 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,760 A lot of brands I talked to, you know, they're on par with maybe 156 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:12,400 what they were going to do, what they were doing during the 157 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,920 pandemic high. So like, it isn't like I don't 158 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,960 think anyone is doing anything super crazy. 159 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:25,240 But on like this, the partner side of things, I don't know if 160 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,120 this is the credit from the economy or if I'm just better at 161 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,240 like we've spent a lot of time at as an agency this year 162 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:38,400 focusing on increasing our ability to bring new business 163 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,440 into the fold, AKA just like get more intro calls with brands for 164 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:49,040 myself to talk to them. And so we are extremely busy and 165 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:54,680 conversations are moving along, you know, at A at a decent clip, 166 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:02,200 you know, but on the flip side of that, like I am, we have more 167 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,680 interesting ways to work with brands and things to offer at, 168 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,920 you know, kind of different tiers of commitment or price 169 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:10,320 points. I guess it would be a better way 170 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:12,120 to describe that. So like, we're making it easy 171 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:14,600 for people to work with us to get a good result. 172 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,160 While obviously we're still a premium service. 173 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,120 I should maybe point that out. Like we're not the cheapest in 174 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:26,800 the room, but we are extremely good, you know, almost nine 175 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,640 years in the game, Shopify plus partners just building awesome 176 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,760 websites, migrating people to websites, running CRO for some 177 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,720 awesome brands. Been getting into landing pages 178 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:38,880 that was like a super successful thing we just did. 179 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:44,440 So during Black Friday, Cyber Monday, we have, we had a client 180 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,120 reach out a few even like a few weeks before and they're like, 181 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,360 can we like sign and get a new landing page for this flagship 182 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,240 product done before and done and launched before Black Friday, 183 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:58,160 Cyber Monday. And we did it and it worked so 184 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:02,160 well. Like the week of like because 185 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:04,200 they started their Black Friday sale before Friday. 186 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,080 Obviously, everyone does that and that we had to like teach 187 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:11,240 them how to like clone it and build it for a different product 188 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,000 because they like under ordered and they're like, we're going to 189 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:16,520 sell out of this product before we even hit Friday. 190 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,240 So it was, that was fun to see that like our help with that 191 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,000 kind of collaboration actually like really kicked butt for 192 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,040 them. Yeah. 193 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:26,640 Nice, nice. And I think really good answer, 194 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,560 like it's we, we've certainly seen that there's more 195 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:32,160 nervousness around brands to like invest money. 196 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,160 And I think I, I even had a brand recently that basically 197 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,120 came to us and said, look, we don't want to work with you 198 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:39,160 guys, not because you're not good, but because actually we 199 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:41,280 just want independent advice and you look like a good body to 200 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,240 give it to us. Can you help us find like a 201 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,160 whole new suite of agencies? And it was really interesting 202 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:51,120 sitting A on the other side of the table, but B, explaining to 203 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,800 this brand that actually you seem to be like sitting there 204 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,680 completely, you know, tight lipped, unemotive, listening to 205 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,240 all these pictures. And I basically went back to him 206 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,280 after like 3 or 4 pitches and said, look, I think the biggest 207 00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:06,040 issue you guys have got is you don't engage at all. 208 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:08,200 You're just waiting for someone to come up with the answer and 209 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:10,120 you want the answer before you sign the contract, which you're 210 00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:12,280 not going to get. So by keeping your card so close 211 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:13,640 to your chest, you're not building any sort of 212 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,520 relationships with anyone. So if you chose any of these, 213 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,560 you've got no working relationship with them. 214 00:10:17,680 --> 00:10:20,000 They don't know how you operate and they're walking into a blind 215 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:21,400 situation. They might even turn around and 216 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,400 say, actually, we, you know, we need to get to know you a bit 217 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,120 first, like before we start working with you. 218 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,120 And so it was interesting, I think talking to the merchant 219 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:30,120 about like how to work with suppliers and how to get the 220 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,680 best out of suppliers. And that really did start with 221 00:10:32,680 --> 00:10:35,240 like when you get on the call, Hey guys, thank you so much for 222 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:37,640 your time. Like, no, no merchant says that. 223 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,560 It's like, cool, you're here to pitch, like show us the pitch. 224 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,880 Thank you for your time. Welcome to this place. 225 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,800 Like, do you want us to kick off and explain what we're looking 226 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,160 for? Or do you guys want to show us 227 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:46,720 what you think we need? Like, where do you want to 228 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,960 start? And it way more open dialogue, 229 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,600 conversation. You'll get more from it. 230 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,160 And I also like don't go with a single partner that won't change 231 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:54,880 the proposal during the proposal process. 232 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,920 Like there was all these, all these different things that I 233 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,160 started explaining to them and they were like, we just thought 234 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:01,320 like agencies, the experts, they should know the answer. 235 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,640 And it's like, no, every business is unique and there's 236 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:05,640 so many nuances and the. Agency. 237 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,000 Not one answer. Yes, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 238 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:13,120 And so I actually went back and said I don't think any of these 239 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:15,200 pictures are right, but I think they're the right agencies. 240 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:17,400 And I think you should go back and first of all, apologize and 241 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:19,400 secondly, say can we do AQ and A with you? 242 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,560 Just ask us lots of questions about the business. 243 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:24,360 We'll be happy to share anything and then come back with an, a 244 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,160 revised pitch. And then it was like a one was 245 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:28,840 obviously a no. And we then they were like, how 246 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:30,320 do we choose two of these three? They're all amazing. 247 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,640 And I'm like, didn't they feel like different companies, the 248 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,760 same humans in the room, same pitch, but they felt like 3 249 00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:39,080 completely new agencies to the three you spoke to previously 250 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,560 because you briefed them properly. 251 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,400 It's like this is what I need doing. 252 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:44,360 And I asked brands all the time like you're looking for a new 253 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:45,600 agency. Like what do you want to see 254 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:47,640 happen? Like where does it start? 255 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:51,560 And I think caveat in that into next year, like pivoting that 256 00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:53,800 into the, the big thing we need to talk about today, Chase is 257 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,840 like going into 2025. What do you think? 258 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:58,560 Let's start with challenges and then we'll talk about like 259 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:00,320 opportunities. But what do you think some of 260 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,400 the biggest challenges to globally and, and US 261 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:06,120 specifically, some of the biggest challenges merchants are 262 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:08,000 probably going to come up against as soon as kind of 263 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:09,320 everyone's recovered from Christmas? 264 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,600 Yeah. I think that in 2025, paid ads 265 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:18,120 are going to continue to go up because what are we going to do? 266 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,200 It's just it's the cost of doing business on that end of the 267 00:12:21,200 --> 00:12:26,000 spectrum. So you, they have you, that's 268 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,360 this, that's the agreement that you have with them, right? 269 00:12:28,680 --> 00:12:31,280 So paid ads are going to go up. So merchants are going to look 270 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:37,080 to increase their return on ad spend, which means lowering 271 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:39,240 their cost per acquisition, right? 272 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,280 And so that can happen in a million different ways, right? 273 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,480 I'd already said before like there isn't one way to do this. 274 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:52,640 And so I, you know, a merchant looking back on what happened 275 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,000 during Black Friday, Cyber Monday and the Christmas 276 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,800 holiday, some, some things they want to look at would be like, 277 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,480 you know, did they get a bunch of customer service complaints 278 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,200 about their website because things were broken, right? 279 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:07,720 What does that tell you? Maybe you need to invest in a 280 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:12,120 new experience, right? You can look back at your 281 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,120 conversion rate on specific landing pages or offers. 282 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,640 If you don't have a landing page strategy, that might be an 283 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,760 amazing thing to invest in in Q1, the performance of your 284 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,760 website. We're obviously a Shopify agency 285 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,280 through and through. That's we, anything we build is 286 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,600 on the Shopify platform. But you know, if you're on like 287 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:43,760 some bespoke platform or you know, some legacy platform and 288 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,320 you're thinking about making a move to Shopify, do it in 289 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,240 January. Please start that conversation 290 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,440 in January. If you reach out in October, I'm 291 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,160 going to say we're doing it next January because that takes time 292 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,120 to do it right. You'll get a better deal 293 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,160 actually in January, if I'm going to be honest with you, 294 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,080 because if we have to like work harder, we're going to charge 295 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,040 you more. And not even me, like that's all 296 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:09,320 agencies do this. Like if you put us under a time 297 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,480 crunch, they're going to charge you more money. 298 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,360 Yeah, absolutely. And we had, I mean we had one 299 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:17,320 retailer years ago, four years ago now quite a large brand in 300 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,880 the UK and we moved them to Shopify from Hybris. 301 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:22,560 And the original launch date was like 1st of September. 302 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,520 Then as soon as it moved to like 20th of September, three or four 303 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:27,320 of us agencies were like, don't do this. 304 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:30,760 There's just just to hold fire. We'll optimize the site more 305 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,000 between now and January, but don't risk it. 306 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:34,280 You know, like COVID had just hit. 307 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:36,320 We're having record numbers happening online. 308 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:38,560 Revenue was up massively. Like everyone was celebrating. 309 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,240 And I was like, your conversion rate is going to drop when you 310 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,280 launch the new site because we've never seen a customer on 311 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:44,400 it. So we don't know what's good and 312 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,040 bad about it. And that's going to take some 313 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:50,280 time to fix to do it in January. And I completely agree with 314 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:53,640 that. We kind of internally it's we, 315 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,960 we, it's Halloween is our like drop dead date on launches. 316 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,160 It's like if we can't get this thing live by Halloween, we're 317 00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:00,560 not. That feels late. 318 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,520 I've honest. We're like we're mid-september 319 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,720 is like a you can do it if you want, but now it's like you can 320 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,800 forget all organic through through Christmas and Paige is 321 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,360 going to drop an ROI. You can mask it because you're 322 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:14,640 getting the additional volumes over Christmas, but yeah, it's 323 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:15,800 not going to be as good as last year. 324 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:18,280 Yeah, well, well, that's that's why we did that landing page 325 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:21,160 project is because they they knew they needed a new store 326 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:23,920 because their store was like an old Shopify theme. 327 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,000 It wasn't even the Shopify 2 point O theme. 328 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,400 So, you know, there's a bunch of stuff that needed to be fixed, 329 00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,480 but they knew they couldn't get it done in time to make sure the 330 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:36,560 test the site was like, you know, Q aid and and all that. 331 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,560 So they just simplify their funnel and they're like, this is 332 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:42,720 going to be our, this is going to be our Black Friday offer. 333 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,200 We're going to build a landing page around this that you know, 334 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,280 follows the attention, interest, desire and action formula. 335 00:15:49,360 --> 00:15:53,600 Aida and threw a bunch of cool stuff about their products on 336 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,080 their awesome content collaborated extremely well with 337 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,360 that client. They were super responsive and 338 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,160 we crushed it. That case. 339 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:02,200 They will maybe be live by this time. 340 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,240 We'll see. Case studies, there's always 341 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,560 like 10 to write and they just sit in my inbox. 342 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,680 There's always something more important, which is annoying, 343 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:10,720 but that's what Christmas is for. 344 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,560 When everyone shuts down, it's like I'm going to write some 345 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,640 case studies, catch up on accounts and I'll be ready for 346 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,840 January and then I'll start queuing it all up again for next 347 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:19,080 Christmas. And you make. 348 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:20,000 There's always something to. Do there. 349 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,160 I got a question for you about that. 350 00:16:21,480 --> 00:16:24,200 As an agency owner, there's always something to do. 351 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,480 My North Star is what is the closest to the money and that's 352 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,880 what I'll focus on. So it's always finish that 353 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:37,760 proposal or call that client or you know, annoy somebody if they 354 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:39,440 owe us some money. It's like it's all like what is 355 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,160 the closest to the money is kind of usually what I'm focused on 356 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:43,760 when I have that long To Do List. 357 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,640 Yeah, the the way I've done it is I, I did AI did a survey a 358 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:49,800 while ago. I used an app on my computer. 359 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,560 I can't remember what it's called now, but there's loads 360 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:52,800 out there like a productivity app. 361 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:56,920 I also did a survey with this psych psychologist person. 362 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,360 I did two hours with them and interestingly they made me do an 363 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,080 hour before lunch and an hour after lunch. 364 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,960 I'm way more productive in the morning than I am in the 365 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:06,640 afternoon. So all that like extra stuff 366 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,319 happens after 3 o'clock. I'm recording this. 367 00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:12,200 It's currently 4:30 in the afternoon here in the UK right 368 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,960 now. And I'm doing this because 369 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,560 having conversation. I'm an extrovert so having 370 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,280 conversations with people keeps my brain awake. 371 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,280 And as soon as I realized this I was like right 2 till three. 372 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:23,520 It's just crunch time get on with simple tasks that just need 373 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,359 to get done eventually higher rate. 374 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,079 I've got, I've got a virtual assistant. 375 00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:29,600 I'm thinking of getting a, a physical personal assistant 376 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,760 who'll be in the office five days a week. 377 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,080 And I'm not going to wear it today. 378 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,440 But there's a whole concept I've been reading about recently 379 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,840 called sweating assets. And I think a personal assistant 380 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,040 could actually run two or three sidelines of revenue for us 381 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:43,840 without any additional cost. I would need that personal 382 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,200 assistant there anyway, like hiring out equipment and other 383 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,760 random stuff. And the studio I'm sitting in 384 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,840 hire this out doesn't cost me anymore. 385 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,240 But if I could make an extra 2 or 3000 lbs a week, like great. 386 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,520 I've just made a load more money and I just have to have the same 387 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,520 assistant who will do all my PA stuff for me does that. 388 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,880 So in the morning, that is my thinking time. 389 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:02,560 That's when I call clients. That's when I sort out 390 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,480 proposals. I prefer pitching in the 391 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,360 morning, unless it's AUS brand, it has to be at 4:00, 3:45. 392 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,440 I'll be doing press UPS, star jumps, like just get my blood 393 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,840 flow again because I get tired and then I wake up again about 394 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,160 6:30, seven o'clock in the evening. 395 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,000 Super productive in the evening, but I hate working out of work 396 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:21,080 hours. So for me it was about like that 397 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:22,920 schedule. I'm not disciplined with it, but 398 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,200 as soon as I feel tired or I feel stretched or I feel like I 399 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,680 can't think straight about stuff, I literally just look 400 00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:31,000 straight at my diary and go all my stuff's at the wrong time. 401 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,080 So like 7:00 AM until about 1:00 PM Mega productive. 402 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,120 If I've got a really tough day, no breakfast, the adrenaline 403 00:18:38,120 --> 00:18:39,800 kicks in without breakfast and it gets me through. 404 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,960 And then eat something healthy at lunch because if you eat 405 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:44,640 something bad, it turns to fat. So I've been reviewing all these 406 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:45,920 things to make myself more productive. 407 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,480 And also like, if you feel yourself doing a job that you 408 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:50,800 shouldn't be doing, and this is irrespective of agency or 409 00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,720 merchant or whatever, get someone else to do it. 410 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:55,120 Like I, I know that comes with a cost. 411 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:56,680 The challenge, does it need to be done? 412 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,200 And if yes, someone else needs to do it. 413 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,840 So actually all my finance, invoicing and everything else, I 414 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,480 just get a report and I designed that report myself. 415 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,600 I know exactly what's going on. It comes in every week. 416 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:07,240 I know exactly where the business is. 417 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:08,640 I know who to have conversations with. 418 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,520 I know when to flag stuff. I know when everything's fine. 419 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,360 And I can know that in 60 seconds, which used to take me 420 00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,960 probably like half a day a week just being billing and stuff. 421 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,480 So it's not easy. But I think as an e-commerce in 422 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:20,320 an e-commerce brand, the question I always get from 423 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:22,360 clients is who's, and you mentioned that like going from 424 00:19:22,360 --> 00:19:24,640 zero to 1 is always the hardest bit, getting out the friends and 425 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,280 family. The other question I get a lot 426 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,480 is when do you hire your first person? 427 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,680 And I always flip in my head saying it's not when it's what 428 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:33,880 are they going to do? Like if you just want them to 429 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,400 send products out, is it cheaper to get a warehouse to do that 430 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,000 for you? If it's to run marketing, don't 431 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:40,840 bring in someone to fix all your problems. 432 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,880 If marketing is not working, there's a business problem 433 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,440 because marketing should be not simple and easy, but it should 434 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:49,760 be easy enough to start getting some traction and go look, we're 435 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:51,720 at 4:00 to 1:00 and need to be at 5. 436 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,480 And then bring in an expert or someone internally or an agency, 437 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:56,040 they'll get you from 4:00 to 5:00. 438 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,440 But getting you from nought to 5 is a lot harder. 439 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,040 And it's going to, and there are some of our clients that are 440 00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,040 like below profitability. And it's like, I'm literally 441 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,880 asking the questions like you're selling the wrong products to 442 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:08,000 the wrong people at the wrong time. 443 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,240 So I know it's quite a long answer to, well, no. 444 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:15,040 I like that answer because it I the client that just came back 445 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:17,600 to us, we've got a close personal relationship with them 446 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,360 because he actually worked for us for a long time and then he 447 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:23,160 kind of moved on with his life. And that's why you don't burn 448 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,760 bridges with people, everybody and you, you all your ex 449 00:20:25,760 --> 00:20:27,760 employees are ambassadors for your agency. 450 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,280 So anyways, I was connecting with him probably around a year 451 00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,320 ago this time and just asking him how he was doing at his new 452 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:39,000 agency and he he said something that really resonated with me, 453 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:43,440 which was but a lot of brands trying to solve product problems 454 00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,200 with marketing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 455 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,040 I read a client's, sorry I say client. 456 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:52,280 We were pitching to them and we ended up pulling out saying, I'm 457 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:54,280 sorry guys, if you're not willing to fix the product 458 00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:57,360 problem, then actually we can't solve your marketing problem. 459 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,640 Like, and they were offering us, they were offering us really 460 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,000 good money. They actually, you know, when a 461 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,520 client dictates the budget and you're always like, that's a bit 462 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,640 high. Like we can, we can take that 463 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,760 money, but we want to give you more for it. 464 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,840 Like it's a bit high. I know it's a terrible business 465 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,560 decision to say that, but we, we're quite honest. 466 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,840 We're very profitable at what we do and we don't need to be any 467 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:16,920 more profitable than that. And that's, you know, as you 468 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,240 say, like stay on good terms with people. 469 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,280 What goes around comes around. But yeah, whenever a client 470 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,040 dictates the budget, it tends to be a lot higher or it's like 471 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:26,080 nothing, yeah, there's no middle ground, like. 472 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,760 It's it's you know, I've never been on a conversation was like 473 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:29,760 that. You know, that sounds pretty. 474 00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,200 That's pretty right. That's probably we should do. 475 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,040 Yeah, absolutely. And like when you say something 476 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:37,680 like, and here's a good question I guess for you looking at next 477 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:38,880 year. You mentioned about site 478 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:41,280 experience. Our partners at Saguna have 479 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,520 released a brand new app for Shopify and it's called Shopify 480 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,240 Connect 4 Canva. You can essentially look at all 481 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,280 of your product images from Shopify directly in Canva and 482 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,640 export them straight back. This can save you a lot of time. 483 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,880 If you want to find out a bit more about this or go and find 484 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,480 the app yourself, you can go to saguna.com/canva. 485 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,040 Enjoy. If someone's sitting there going 486 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,560 look, my product is good and I've done that bit. 487 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,680 I've we've done product testing, we've got good reviews. 488 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,760 We just, it's the user experience. 489 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:10,920 We're not getting across the USPS of the product, the 490 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,160 messaging of the product. It is the marketing bit. 491 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,200 And I know it's going to be a piece of string question. 492 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:16,640 How do you come up with a budget? 493 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:18,960 How do you decide how much to spend with someone like yourself 494 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,880 or even internally in time to actually fix that design problem 495 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,480 at risk of the owner and you'll be guilty of this chase. 496 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:27,920 I know you will and I'm guilty of this. 497 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,440 You log into your own website and go I like red, let's put red 498 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,480 in and like you just start changing stuff without really 499 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,160 looking at the data. It drags timer. 500 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,240 How do you come up with a budget to fix that thing? 501 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,200 Absolutely. That's a it's a hard question 502 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,120 and you know, giving like hard and fast numbers is, is going to 503 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:45,480 be a lot more difficult, but I can give you some like some 504 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,360 projects that would be that kind of make a little bit more sense, 505 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:50,920 right. So like and some ranges I would 506 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,320 say if you think you're going to fix your business for less than 507 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,920 $1000, you are listening to the wrong podcast. 508 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,920 You got to understand that an expert's time is worth a lot of 509 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,480 money. While there's the world economy 510 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:09,400 and the dollar exchanges for X somewhere else, you still at the 511 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,760 end of the day are kind of going to get what you pay for is 512 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,440 always a rule of thumb. So if you're expecting an 513 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,160 outsized result from an investment that you're willing 514 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,520 to make, like you need to have a conversation with yourself 515 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:21,520 before you even get like go down this rabbit hole. 516 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:25,240 So there's like the first thing, but now let's like, let's talk 517 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:28,600 realistically about businesses and their margins and 518 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:29,840 profitability and stuff like that. 519 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:34,160 Like you don't have $50,000, but you know, you need to spend that 520 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:38,280 to like get the result you want. So maybe you take it a step back 521 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,200 and that I just keep talking about this project that we did 522 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,480 with Ryan's brand because it was a, it's a great example. 523 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,080 Like they know they need to redesign their website, but they 524 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,760 don't have the time. They actually had the budget, 525 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,280 but they didn't have the time to get it done. 526 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:58,440 And so instead we just said, all right, we're going to streamline 527 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:03,000 the UX here and just focus on the flagship offer 8020 rule 528 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,200 here. Their flagship offer was their 529 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:08,760 holiday bundle and they just changed the name of it all the 530 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,120 time. It's like this is the Father's 531 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:11,640 Days bundle. It's the same bundle, right? 532 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,480 And so they just streamlined their funnel to where all of 533 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,920 their top of the funnel ads pointed at this landing page. 534 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,800 Now the landing page talked to, you know, the problems that the 535 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,560 customer could potentially have the solution in it, the value 536 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,680 proposition of it resonated. They knew this offer worked, 537 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,760 right? And so the UX of that landing 538 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,360 page is great because we designed it from scratch and we 539 00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:41,240 weren't limited by what the theme like what we could do with 540 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,720 the theme when now the caveat there is like that investment 541 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,040 isn't going to transfer over to their new website when we get to 542 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,200 it in the spring because if they're on an old bad Shopify 543 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,760 theme, right? But like, if you need a stopgap 544 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:57,120 solution, you could think about a landing page strategy for your 545 00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:03,040 flagship product or offer. And you know, I'd say you can 546 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,160 get away with something with that around like 5 to $15,000 is 547 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:10,280 like an honest answer in USD. Like it it it it also depends on 548 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:13,520 how many pages are you building. Like how much how, how custom 549 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,520 does it need to be all sorts of stuff, right. 550 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,600 And here's like another caveat. Beautiful design doesn't matter 551 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,280 as much as great copy like that's and like if you have a 552 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:28,520 vet, a vetted like offer already that you know works like you 553 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,640 can, you can see some awesome results here. 554 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:35,800 Now, if you have a bit more budget than that, you can 555 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:37,800 probably start getting into the range of getting your site 556 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,160 redesigned by an expert. And here's the thing people that 557 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,240 DIY these things, they just buy an off the shelf and I'm even 558 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,040 recommending at this price point just get an off the shelf theme. 559 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,480 You don't need a custom theme. I know I just said we did a 560 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,080 custom landing page design, but that's like a different thing. 561 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:54,640 It's one page. You're not talking about 562 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,120 components that need to modulate throughout an entire site and 563 00:25:57,120 --> 00:25:59,120 like solve for all this dumb edge case stuff. 564 00:25:59,120 --> 00:26:00,600 Like that's QA and it's annoying. 565 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:04,720 It's custom, but you can use an off the shelf theme and get 566 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,960 someone that understands UX from an e-commerce perspective. 567 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,120 There's so many times that we talk with brands that hire a 568 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:17,480 designer with no extra special stuff to their name to design 569 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,760 their website. And you get in there and you 570 00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,480 start to point out the unshoppability of the decisions 571 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,480 made by that designer, which, yeah, it looks great, but it's 572 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,920 ruining your conversion rate. So hire someone that designs 573 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,440 specifically e-commerce for a living and their their portfolio 574 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:40,240 is e-commerce brands. You need to hire the best person 575 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,200 you can afford for the job that you need done. 576 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,760 And if they haven't done that job before, do not waste your 577 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,160 money. Why are you going to educate 578 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,280 somebody on your own dime? That's something that we see all 579 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:54,720 the time and it's unfortunately not cheaper for an agency or an 580 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,320 expert to come in and fix a problem created by somebody else 581 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:00,600 because they still have to start from the beginning of their 582 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,200 process to do it the right way to give you the result that they 583 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,400 say they can do. So, you know, hire someone that 584 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,160 knows what they're doing to help you design it out. 585 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,640 But I mean, if your business is, you know, doing like 1,000,000 586 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,840 to $10 million a year and someone's trying to sell you 587 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,280 like a fully custom Shopify theme, tell them to kick rocks. 588 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:23,280 You don't need it. And and then obviously like some 589 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,800 of the site can be custom like it, it can be like a hybrid 590 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,760 approach like when we're talking about a more specific UX 591 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,040 experience for a brand, these are more mature brands. 592 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,600 They need certain things, you know, even luxury brands or 593 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,040 brands that need like some functionality of the website to 594 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:46,480 properly display their product and or offers, right? 595 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,080 Like it's going to be like, OK, this part of it we're going to 596 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,800 spend some more time on and jazz this up, tailor this up, make 597 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,440 this really cool. But the rest of the components 598 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,760 of the website are going to be kind of what the theme has 599 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:01,200 out-of-the-box, because this has been QAID over 10s, hundreds, 600 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:02,680 thousands of stores at this point. 601 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,480 And it's going to save everyone some headache down the down the 602 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,040 line. But if you, if you buy a custom 603 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:13,000 theme from an agency, what is in the design is what you're 604 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,480 getting. And if it's not in the design or 605 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:20,320 you want to add something later, you're going to have to pay for 606 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,720 it at the end of the day, right? And so by using an off the shelf 607 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,640 theme for most of the components of your website, like there's a 608 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,240 lot more flexibility to the merchant. 609 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:32,360 And so it's a, it's a better ROI for you because you're getting 610 00:28:32,360 --> 00:28:34,640 more than what you think you're paying for at the end of the 611 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,360 day. And it allows you to kind of 612 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:40,560 grow and also like say, say we build you a website, right? 613 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,360 And then you move on from us and, and go work with somebody 614 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:47,800 else, like using a theme that is like, you know, tested in the 615 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,760 ecosystem. Anybody can help you with that 616 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,440 theme. But if you, you know, have a 617 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:56,280 proprietary custom solution from an agency, some really mean 618 00:28:56,280 --> 00:29:00,120 agencies won't give you access to the repository or 619 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:05,360 uncompressed files to where you can't make changes for the new 620 00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:09,680 team. But also, you know, they're not 621 00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:12,880 familiar with how it's structured out-of-the-box, so 622 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:14,680 it's harder for them to customize it for you. 623 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,880 Like that's just something to keep. 624 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,360 I just started rambling. Nick, where, where do you want 625 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:20,520 to? Where do you want me to follow 626 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,200 up? No, I think it's good. 627 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,960 I'm taking loads of notes. I agree with 99% of what you 628 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:25,840 just said. Maybe 100. 629 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,200 I I love that that example of bundling, it's the same bundle 630 00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,880 with a different title on it. It reminded me that we used to 631 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,680 have this client, they had a sale every day and it ended at 632 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,360 midnight every day. And their return customer rate 633 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,480 was 0, which was fantastic. Everyone just bought on their 634 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,520 first visit. It was like, wow, there's a 40% 635 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:44,680 off sale, I'm just going to buy it now. 636 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,440 And what was even more hilarious is they were wholesaling to all 637 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,000 their competitors and had set a really tight RRP and used 638 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,560 different photography on their own websites. 639 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,920 You had no way of knowing it was the same product, but people 640 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,480 were all comparing apples with apples and going same apple. 641 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,760 It's cheaper over here. It's 40% off and it ends at 642 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,440 midnight. Honey, we should buy it now like 643 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:06,080 we should buy. Get your credit card. 644 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,640 Let's buy this thing now. And I think I hear what you're 645 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,640 saying about two agencies offering the same thing or yeah, 646 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,160 offering the same design services one day. 647 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,720 Well, one, not I think the key for me with designers and 648 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:20,640 there's three designers in particular that we work with. 649 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,200 They are two of them are developers and one just designs 650 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,640 the brand and the logo and does not want to touch anything else. 651 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:29,480 That's that's a good caveat there too. 652 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,840 Even if the designer, the designer does e-commerce 653 00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,960 branding, branding is a different skill set than UX and 654 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,480 customers journey. Yeah, it's it's a good thing to 655 00:30:41,480 --> 00:30:46,720 kind of like to kind of lay out and it's like it's even with 656 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,800 development teams. It's like a catch all 657 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,800 development team master, you know, Jack of all trades master 658 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,560 none type scenario. They won't understand the 659 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:03,080 nuances of Shopify, the dumb decisions that they made, so you 660 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,360 have to do things a certain way. Yeah, and, and we come with our 661 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:08,880 SEO page speed tools and we're like, what the hell have you 662 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,760 done? Like it looks OK, not great. 663 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,280 It looks OK, it looks better, but like it takes 5 minutes for 664 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,520 a page to load. We, we, we did a really 665 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,400 interesting exercise with a client recently and said, oh, do 666 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,320 you know any good web agencies? And we said, yeah, we know 667 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,840 loads, but you're going to, you don't know what you're doing 668 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,200 unless you let us do our bit first. 669 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,880 So we charged them and I happily say this, we charged them about 670 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,920 15,000 lbs. So it was not cheap. 671 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:33,520 We didn't design anything. We didn't build anything. 672 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:37,160 We told them all the stuff that they didn't know. 673 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,680 And every single item started with data. 674 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,800 People are trying to click this. It's not clickable. 675 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,320 People are rage clicking over here when people see this on a 676 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:47,200 page. We have a 100% website exit 677 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,320 rate. When they see this, I they see 678 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,320 this, they see it's pre-order or they see the price or something. 679 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:54,560 So we're driving the wrong people in the website doesn't 680 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,720 look luxury, but the products are expensive and we use data 681 00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,520 for all of that and charge them 15 grands. 682 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,000 And then they built a whole new store for 15 grands because we 683 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,840 gave a designer, developer, a freelance person £15,000 on top. 684 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:09,160 There's 30 in total. I said give us half, there's a 685 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,520 bit of a punt. I said look, if this doesn't 686 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,360 work I won't charge you but we'll try it. 687 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,280 And it's worked so well. I've got three more proposals 688 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,520 going out of my inbox, 2 yesterday and 1:00 today for 689 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,760 exactly the same thing, £15,000. We will tell you everything. 690 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:26,440 We will write your website brief because then what happens is and 691 00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,560 it, and you guys probably do this yourselves, but so many 692 00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:31,680 agencies don't do it. We're giving them a brief of 693 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,200 going look, people try and click on this and they can't. 694 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,440 A designer goes, I'm a designer and I can develop the site as 695 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:38,880 well. So I know what I can develop, 696 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,680 what's possible. And I'm going to design a 697 00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,400 solution to that problem. Because if they're trying to 698 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,840 click on the image to make it bigger and it doesn't click, 699 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,960 then we know what that is. Or if they see something on the 700 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,480 site that says pre-order and they will jump off the site. 701 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,800 I'm going to design either a few options for the client, one that 702 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:55,720 still says pre-order, but with some sort of countdown. 703 00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,120 Pre-order arrives in a week or we just say it's in stock one 704 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:04,640 week delivery or it takes a week for us to prepare this product 705 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,280 for you because you're spending £5000 on a new sofa or 706 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,800 something. So actually the weak wait is a 707 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,560 positive, not a negative. And we we go harder. 708 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,480 Like what's the data and what's the, the psychology and the kind 709 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,640 of psychic marketing side of like what do we need to say to 710 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:22,720 someone to convince them we're a really good option for this 711 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,320 thing right the way down to them. 712 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,320 We even went back to the client and said, your photography is 713 00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:29,640 the same as four other websites, same products and you don't have 714 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,320 any USPS against them. So let's just make our site look 715 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,200 super premium and put our prices up. 716 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,080 Now it is a different product. It is a different proposition to 717 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,120 customers and some people were listening to say you're just 718 00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:42,480 charging more for the same stuff. 719 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:47,120 We are, but we offer a 10 year guarantee instead of 1 and we've 720 00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:49,640 added other, well it comes with a free insurance with it as 721 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:50,840 well. So we've actually spent your 722 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:54,120 extra money on USPS that we realized were really important 723 00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,560 to the customers and not available on other sites. 724 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,880 You spill a coffee on that sofa in eight years time, you get 725 00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,920 that cushion cover replaced for free on the insurer. 726 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:04,040 Doesn't cost the retailer or anything. 727 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:05,800 That's where your extra money pays for. 728 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,320 Would you like to buy it or not? You know, do and with a picture 729 00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,880 of a young child holding a juice bottle heading for the sofa and 730 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,520 you're like that kids going to drop blackcurrant juice all over 731 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:17,440 that sofa and it's a cream sofa. I mean, you're an idiot for 732 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,000 buying a cream sofa with kids. Let's not mean let's not beat 733 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,719 around the Bush on that. But I think it's that 15 grand 734 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,800 basically built the website brief and then the designer 735 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,120 went, Oh my God, the designer actually came back to us and 736 00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,960 said like, but then if all my clients could afford 15 grand, 737 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,600 you have a light version because like, I'd love to have this in 738 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,840 every brief forever. You've done all the hard work. 739 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,719 I don't understand the analytics as much, but I can, I can design 740 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,320 solutions if you tell me what the problem is. 741 00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:45,040 But my issue is most clients say we don't like red, we want blue 742 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,120 or we think our branding's a bit aggressive. 743 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,840 They've not asked anyone, they've not checked any numbers. 744 00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:50,239 They just think it's a bit aggressive. 745 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,000 So make it a bit more passive and they change it and 746 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,840 conversion rate goes down and they're like, oh, can't be the 747 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,000 site. It looks way better. 748 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,160 And it's like what it was that was the change. 749 00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,040 So like I think it's, it's about doing things really smart rather 750 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,040 than just going on gut field. I think that all of the stuff 751 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,840 you're saying about like building, like to distill, like 752 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:12,720 you're talking about like, you know, heat maps and and 753 00:35:12,720 --> 00:35:16,280 analytics and all that stuff. It's like that's my favorite 754 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,240 because it changes the conversation. 755 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,560 Like you were just saying like, oh, like we made this change 756 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,000 because just like out of gut where there's like some decision 757 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:34,000 maker that wants to make this decision out of without any data 758 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,000 to back it up, right? And there's a lot of reasons why 759 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:43,200 people make choices, but it's so much easier to say that's not a 760 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:47,720 good choice because here's the data that shows us why versus. 761 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:49,680 And it's fascinating watching their reaction. 762 00:35:49,680 --> 00:35:51,640 Yeah, that's not. A good choice because we are the 763 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:54,600 experts and we will never let you make that choice like 764 00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,640 because people will will people will pay $100,000 to hire an 765 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,360 expert and then disagree with them. 766 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:03,960 And I was like, what kind of power trip are you on here? 767 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,360 Yeah, I won't know many names. If you're listening to this, you 768 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,280 know who you are because I've told you this as in some of our 769 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,000 clients. Cool. 770 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,040 Last question for today, Chase, and I'm going to drop you right 771 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,400 on the spot here. All right, What is the number 772 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:24,080 one thing or a really important thing that you think merchants 773 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,080 almost unanimously before they come and work with you or I? 774 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,560 What is what is like the number one thing that's always top of 775 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,320 mind that they're not doing well and going into 2025 fix this 776 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,160 thing like maybe not unanimous, but almost everybody is making 777 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,640 the same mistake. What is that mistake and how do 778 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:41,920 you fix it? Oh, dude. 779 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:43,400 All right. So you kind of this is the 780 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,440 reason this is top of mind is because you kind of mentioned 781 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,080 it, but we didn't go into it, which is like policies, 782 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,920 guarantees and warranties. Dude, in making that 783 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:56,960 proposition, like, all right, Nick is selling a widget, right? 784 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:00,320 And his widget is $10. I'm selling that same widget. 785 00:37:00,720 --> 00:37:04,840 It's also $10, but it has a money back guarantee if it 786 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,960 doesn't solve your problem. Which of us are you buying the 787 00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,440 widget from? That is like the simplest way to 788 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:13,800 describe this. And it's like we come in and 789 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,840 they're asking us like, how do we increase our conversion rate? 790 00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,720 It's like, well, all of your customers have questions and 791 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:23,480 you're not talking about how like a questions about the 792 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,720 product. And is it it sometimes it's like 793 00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:29,800 shipping time, right? Or sometimes it's like, is this 794 00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,840 made in America is sometimes a, an important thing to a certain 795 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,440 buyer? You know, what is the return 796 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,560 policy? What is the warranty on this 797 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,840 thing, right? And a lot of merchants don't 798 00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:47,720 think too hard about that offer, right? 799 00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:50,320 And it's like, you got a T-shirt company. 800 00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,040 What's the difference between your T-shirt and another 801 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:55,080 T-shirt? Let's be real, the colors. 802 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,840 On this conversation with a client tomorrow morning, and 803 00:37:57,840 --> 00:37:59,880 it's the third round of this conversation. 804 00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:01,480 So. Yeah. 805 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:06,080 Experiment with the offer. You can split test this and and 806 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:10,280 you know on the product page under the under the the add to 807 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,320 cart button, right? So you're just one of 1,000,000 808 00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,360 T-shirt brands out there. And I don't say that meanly, I'm 809 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,000 just saying this is a real thing. 810 00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,200 What is the difference between your T-shirt and someone else's 811 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,880 T-shirt other than the graphic on the shirt, the cut of the 812 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:28,760 hem, etcetera? Whatever. 813 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,640 It's AT shirt now. Goes well under a jumper and 814 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,080 then you can't even see the teacher. 815 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,440 So why would I buy? It but if you go like 30 day, no 816 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:44,120 questions asked, 100% refund under that add to cart button. 817 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:47,000 I'm just making that up. Do whatever you want, but try 818 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,600 something versus something else versus what if you don't even 819 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,040 have a policy, People like you can see this all the time. 820 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:56,920 People will search for policy in your search terms or warranties 821 00:38:56,920 --> 00:39:00,640 or returns, and if you don't have this stuff laid out like 822 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:05,000 they are going to go somewhere else where they believe the 823 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,640 value is better and it's the merchant's perception of value. 824 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,200 It's not your perception of value to be honest. 825 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,120 We actually did this with an insurance company only like two 826 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,280 or three weeks ago. At the point of recording this, 827 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,320 we said like, all right, so you insure boats and cars and houses 828 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,880 and stuff. What percentage of claims do you 829 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:25,560 pay? And they were like, oh, we're 830 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,200 amazing. And just went off on one about 831 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:29,920 how great they are. And they said like about 60% of 832 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,320 their claims they get just send us a picture. 833 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:34,840 We'll pay out same day. We'll even do a batch transfer. 834 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,200 It's in your account that day. If he sends a picture, I was 835 00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,840 like why isn't that on the website? 836 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:41,560 Was that on the website anywhere? 837 00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,960 Absolutely not. Of course it wasn't. 838 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,360 It is now it's the main call to action. 839 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,480 It's like it's like when you go through it's like why buy from 840 00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:51,000 us? It's like, hey, we insure this 841 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,160 and then instead of going on about that thing and the policy 842 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:55,600 and the clicks and, you know, cross. 843 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:57,720 It's the thing that matters. Why do you buy insurance to get 844 00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:01,680 your money back? Exactly your items safe. 60% of 845 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,440 claims are paid same day, another 30% are paid same week 846 00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:10,640 and 10% are investigated because they have to be, because we need 847 00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:14,240 to know how much to give you. In the claim, so we're now like 848 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:17,280 we're proclaim we're pro you claiming as far as marketing is 849 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:18,560 concerned. And then they've got another 850 00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,920 offering where they worked out that I think it was like 95% of 851 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,680 the people that got insurance from them had I'm making this 852 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,200 number up, but it cost less than 50 lbs. 853 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,520 So I said just make your insurance cost £50. 854 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,440 Just say like you just tell us the information about the item 855 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,080 and then you pay us £50 and it's insured. 856 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:39,320 No, no more, no more long forms, no one phoning you up. 857 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:41,960 No, like our underwriters, no one even knows what an 858 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,560 underwriter is, right? Our underwriters are looking at 859 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,240 crap and they're just kind of making it up and coming back 860 00:40:47,240 --> 00:40:49,080 with some numbers and a million more questions. 861 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:50,160 And this is going to take forever. 862 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:53,320 It's like buy 50 LB insurance right now. 863 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,120 And they said the 5% that cost more than £50, the most 864 00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:58,720 expensive was 70. They were worried initially, 865 00:40:58,720 --> 00:41:02,040 like how is everyone going to need like a 70 or 80 LB policy? 866 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:03,520 And it's only going to cost us 50. 867 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,400 So we make no markup on the policy. 868 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,320 We just lose our money. And it's like lose money on 5% 869 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,960 or break even on 5% and make profit on 95. 870 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,480 You've actually increased your price because you've made it so 871 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:15,840 easy. So like, and that's the way you 872 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,040 innovate the model and you innovate it to make it 873 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,760 convenient to the customers. I love the money back guarantee. 874 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:22,040 I think it's an excellent idea. And I think anyone listening, 875 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,480 I'm hoping you guys are looking at your website going now going, 876 00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,680 what could we guarantee? Like could we do a money back 877 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:28,720 like, and it'd be interesting as well. 878 00:41:28,720 --> 00:41:30,760 You can, as you say, you can test it, just do it for 10% of 879 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,080 your customers and just tag those customers going, they got 880 00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:35,200 version B of whatever. Or if they come back to you and 881 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:37,840 say, I want my 30 day money back guarantee, You know how many 882 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,760 have come back and you we've actually had brands before go. 883 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:43,960 The more confident you are in the product, the less returns we 884 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,800 get. So you put a money back 885 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,440 guarantee on it and less people return it for the money back 886 00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,640 guarantee than before. We offered the no questions, no 887 00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,720 quib or money back guarantee. You know, we'll cover the 888 00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,000 delivery cost back. More people did that because it 889 00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,720 was like, oh I don't know, maybe I should because of the 890 00:41:57,720 --> 00:41:59,400 confidence you you received the item. 891 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,880 Games must be a good item. Yeah, and they're so confident 892 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,720 about it. Like I, you know, it's your, 893 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:05,560 your perception of it also increases. 894 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:10,720 A great book to peruse about this is $100 million offers by 895 00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:13,440 Alex for Mosey. He talks about the concept of 896 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,080 value stacking. It's kind of written more from 897 00:42:16,080 --> 00:42:18,720 like an agency slash coaching perspective, I guess. 898 00:42:18,720 --> 00:42:21,200 But you can take these same things and apply them over to 899 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:23,480 e-commerce. Yeah, absolutely. 900 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,520 Well, look, definitely check out the book guys and Chase just 901 00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,400 before we go away those three things again. 902 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,840 What three things? I wrote two of them down 903 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,800 policies, guarantees and that was the third. 904 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,280 Warranties, yeah, warranties and warranties, yeah, those are the 905 00:42:38,280 --> 00:42:40,760 things that merchant like that's and that's just you do that as a 906 00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,320 merchant, do some homework, come up with like your first 907 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,760 iteration of that offer and then have someone run a split test on 908 00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,640 your PDP, on your best offer page, etcetera and see what 909 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,080 happens. Another thing is if you're a 910 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,520 merchant and you're not on Shopify and you understand that 911 00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,440 your platform is taking money out of your pocket, please hit 912 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,200 me up. We are Shopify migration 913 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,400 experts. That's my biggest plug of the 914 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:06,160 day. Amazing. 915 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,800 And if you phone Chase, Chase will phone me because, yeah, we 916 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:11,320 do a hell of a lot of migrations, Yeah, and stop 917 00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,360 people losing the rest of the day. 918 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,920 But Chase and the gang, they're absolutely amazing at this guy. 919 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,840 So do reach out to him. Chase, thank you so much for 920 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,040 your time. Appreciate you coming on. 921 00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:19,840 And if you haven't already, guys, check out yesterday's 922 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:21,400 episode. But yeah, appreciate your time. 923 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,320 Thank you so much. Oh, this was, this is absolute 924 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:25,360 blast, Nick. We'll do it again in a couple 925 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,680 months. We'll see what people want. 926 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,600 Yeah, we'll see what see what people say. 927 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:30,280 Drop us an e-mail if you want another one of these. 928 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,560 And if you want us to do a gassing chat instead where we 929 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,400 just chat about random topics, you guys can suggest the topics, 930 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:37,280 but yeah, let us know. We'll release a Midweeker or 931 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:38,640 some of that. But yeah, thanks so much for 932 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:40,000 tuning in, everyone. Hit subscribe button if you 933 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,320 haven't already. We'll see you again next week. 934 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:42,240 Thanks again for tuning in.