Hello and welcome to another episode, the Winning with
Shopify podcast. For anyone who's watching you
before, my name is Nick and I don't always wear this bright
pink T-shirt, but it does have our logo on.
How exciting. If you're just listening, I'm
wearing a bright pink T-shirt with our logo on.
Today I've got a really awesome special guest.
We're continuing the series of talking to small solo preneurs,
solo entrepreneurs. They're one person businesses
with a few other people helping is that is the thing.
And all of them have made their money and made their name
through TikTok, Instagram and other social platforms.
So some really, really good insights.
Certainly for some of the bigger businesses that are like, we
should be posting on TikTok. TikTok, everybody's making
millions. No, they're not.
But some people are doing really successfully.
So we're talking to them to get you guys some advice.
As always on this piece of paper here I have the most incredible
list of things we've covered. Just before I read out my list
of things for this week's episode, please check out the
Growth Hub, wwspodcast.com and click the button for Growth Hub.
Join our community. Our community is amazing and
everybody is chatting away and we've launched a new platform,
which is super exciting. I'm actually recording this
before we launched the platform as well.
So I'm putting pressure on myself, giving myself a deadline
to make sure that the new platform is out before this
episode goes out, which I'm sure we can achieve.
We'd love to meet you. It's completely free to join.
There's tons of other brands in there.
There are no agencies or anything apart from myself, but
it's an opportunity in forum for you guys, talk about some of
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to our e-mail list as well. I don't often talk about e-mail,
but you go to www.podcast.com, sign up to our newsletter and if
you haven't already, hit subscribe button and leave us a
review. Anyway, these have been becoming
quite popular. I'm getting quite a few messages
and DMS and other stuff across our channel saying, Nick, I love
your intro list. Can we see a version of Naked
Selfie Man, who was one of the customers of my guest George
from Snaffling Pig a few weeks ago?
No, you can't. I don't want to see it either,
but these are becoming more and more funny.
Today we've got nothing quite as funny as that.
But my guest, she did mention that Bianca is the lady I
interviewed and she did mention it before we hit record anyway
and laughed. So she said she's going to make
sure she doesn't mention any of it.
So I made a point of mentioning it in this anyway, I've spoken
far too much about this guy anyway.
We spoke about bath bombs, giving into customer demands
versus what you want to do and showing how it's made videos,
how you can use cat videos to sell products on TikTok and
Instagram process videos. Again, a bit kind of like how
it's made, but actually how things are done, how you work as
a business that how to bring across a good value of product
to customers. So much more than just going the
features and functions of this product and the price bringing
real value to it through social media and how now she went viral
painting her ceiling in her house and how she sets her
pricing. Instagram being bigger than
TikTok. It's not something you hear
every day. I was quite shocked.
She said some really good points on it though, so make sure you
stay tuned in for that. Balancing being creative with
all of the back office stuff like managing tax and systems
and replying to customers, etcetera, etcetera.
Once she gets to 1,000,000 views, she starts to do
something different in how she manages the comments on videos
as well. And also, I asked her right at
the end, how are you evolving to scale up what you're doing at
the moment? And what she said was quite the
opposite of what I was expecting.
So make sure you stay tuned for that.
I hope you enjoy today's episode.
So Bianca, welcome to the show. How are you?
I'm good. How are you, Nick?
Yes, very well, thank you. Very, very well.
It is officially turning into winter here in the Uki don't
know how cold it is for you where where you're based.
It's getting colder, but it's actually taking a lot longer
than I thought it would, which is nice.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, when they say it was
going to be global warming, I've been quite surprised how cold
it's been getting, certainly in the Northern Hemisphere, but.
You know, it's just weather changing everywhere, yeah.
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. And there's certainly plenty of
weather disasters that have been going on the last few weeks and
months. So yeah, we're counting
ourselves lucky where we're based at the moment.
And yeah, thoughts, thoughts and prayers going out to those guys.
But anyway, we're going to talk about Shopify and talk about
your business. So why don't you give a little
background to yourself what business you run and how you got
into it in the first place? So my business is called Bella's
Botanicals. It actually started as a bath
bomb business, which I'll go into a little bit later, but I
make nature inspired polymer clay and resin earrings.
Polymer clay isn't like the usual clay you would work with
or you would think of like with ceramics.
It's actually a plastic based clay with plasticizers in it,
which makes it soft and then once it is baked, it's cured and
that's when it becomes a solid form.
So I make a lot of miniatures. I like making clay canes.
So like butterfly designs that you kind of like slice.
Have you ever seen those candies that have the design all the way
through? Yes, I have all you.
Know, like watch those fun video.
Yeah, yeah, it's like that with the clay.
Amazing. So I do a lot of that too.
Like I made these cherries if you're watching the video.
But yeah, I started in April of 2022 and it's just kind of
turned into this whole handmade business mixed with being a
content creator. So doing a lot of partnerships
with brands now to kind of supplement my income.
Amazing, amazing. And I'm going to ask you a
massive question. I don't normally dive in this
deep this quickly, but how on earth do you take something that
you love doing something you're passionate about, especially
something creative, and actually start paying bills with it?
Like how does it become a business?
How do you start generating some revenue from that?
Or how did you you do it in your story?
It's very hard, especially with all the additional taxes when
you're self-employed and all the fees and material costs.
And I did not make any profit for the first year that I
started. In fact, I went into debt.
But at that point I was so determined to make it work.
So it wasn't about until year in and that was only because I was
doing well on social media, which then marketed what I was
making really well. Amazing, amazing.
And I can certainly relate to that.
I yeah, I clocked up a few credit card debts and overdrafts
and stuff when I was starting my business.
And I remember my mom sort of saying to me like, we'll pay
off, pay all this off and get you home.
And, you know, you don't have to pay rent anymore and everything
else, but just give it one more go.
And I don't know if it was the same for you, but in that state
of desperation, it was almost, I actually think, if I'm brutally
honest, I think it was my pride that pushed me through.
It was like just the thought of failure.
I was like, no, I'm not done with this.
And it was like, just do anything I had to to get
revenue. I don't know if you hit a sort
of similar place and then something you never forget, you
know, you kind of continue riding that adrenaline almost
indefinitely. Yeah, my mom was actually very.
She questioned what I was doing as well.
It's funny, but they're really looking out for you all the
time. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But yeah, I didn't really, I didn't ever think I was going to
be selling jewelry in the 1st place.
And so the fact that I, I realized I could make it a
business and I could possibly make a living off of it really
kind of set a fire under my butt.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think when you've got a bill to pay and you're like,
I've got no money and it's like, but I do have products like I
just need to ship them. Suddenly you find the motivation
to be incredibly creative and almost go do you know I I don't
know if you've had this, it'd be interesting to find out kind of
how you put your brand and things.
But did you find it was almost AI almost don't care what I'm
making, how it looks. I just need to sell some stuff,
which actually is a really healthy place from a business
perspective to be in of I just need to make things that people
want. Did you, did you find that was
part of your branding journey or actually did you go actually
there are some key principles that I'm not willing to
negotiate on here. I definitely wasn't willing to
negotiate a lot of it since a lot of it or all of it is
handmade. So I would be putting hours of
my time into making it with my own hands and make something I
don't want to make is just kind of awful.
But at the same time, I want to listen to what your customers
want. And so I do, and still now to
this day, ask them what they really want to see me make and
then kind of put my own twist on it.
So I still enjoy it and it's still something they really
want. Yeah, and I really like that
link. So you're kind of mixing up both
worlds. Like the customer's got a need
or let's be Morris more, more Morris like a want as opposed to
it just being a need. But they've got a want and a
desire. And I think you put in your own
spin. I think it's a bit like the, I
mean, Henry Ford famously said you can have whatever color you
want, but it's black, you know, like we know what you want.
We're the car manufacturer. We're the experts here, but
actually it's got to start from something you kind of want.
And then that's what marketing and sales is, is we bring you to
actually what we want to sell and it becomes a win, win and
you buy it at the end of that. But yeah, I mean, do you find
you still get to put an enormous amount of your own creativity
into it or do you find sometimes you do get almost like a brief
or customers are all saying, we really want this, you know, all
right, fine, I'll give in to the demands and make make that
product if people say they want it.
I definitely give in to demands a lot, especially if it's
something I've made in the past and a lot of people have been
asking about it coming back for like a year.
Like with the cherry earrings that I'm wearing right now,
they've been like one of the most popular things I've made.
So yeah, I give in and I still enjoy it, but there's definitely
times when I'm working on something and it does feel more
like a job in that sense. Like it's a little harder to get
through it. But for the most part, I make
what I want inspired by what everyone else that follows along
with what I make wants. That's cool, that's cool.
And I guess if you just did exactly what they asked for,
there'd be no point in asking you in the 1st place because
make it themselves or just order it from a factory somewhere
rather than having that personal touch and also that that
connection with you. And how powerful would you say
that connection is actually then being able to engage with the
the individual creative person actually making the product.
You know how powerful is that for your business?
I think it's so powerful, I mean, because then they get to
feel kind of like they're part of it as well, because they are.
And I have so many repeat customers, like people who order
from every single collection drop that I do on my website and
some of these people I'm in contact with.
So we'll just like, keep up with each other through DMS or
emails. So yeah, there's such a strong
connection. I think it's very important,
especially for art. Like you are buying this art
because you love it, but also because you probably enjoy the
artist behind it. Yeah, yeah.
And I think the story is as important as the end product,
isn't it? And that's, I think when I was
younger and went to art galleries or looked at stuff
that people have made, just looking at it, I'd be like,
there's nothing particularly special about that.
Or it's kind of creative, but a machine could make that.
And it's always that. It's always the story that
really reads into life. It's the like, actually this
person was going through this in their life and this was their
way of like dealing with it was actually creating something or
making something. And that's thought, you know,
that's one of a billion examples of a story where actually, I
think it's really, really powerful.
So I guess another potentially quite tough question, but
something that you must be dealing with regularly is how do
you bring that story to life when it's just there's only so
many pixels on a screen that you can control?
You know, how do you actually bring that story to life to
people? So they buy into you, buy into
the product, buy into your business.
I think it's, it's definitely a combination of what I put in my
captions and posts, or I'll do certain videos that have voice
overs that kind of give like a little background behind
everything that I put into this, all the thoughts I put into it,
how many different drafts I went through for it.
And then I also interact with people on my story.
So it's just like finding so many different ways to interact
with people and let them know what I'm making and how I got to
this. Yeah.
Nice, nice. And it's such a powerful age to
be alive. I think to be able to just like
hit record and within a few minutes actually have some in
the same way we're recording this now.
Like we suddenly got something that to, you know, to some
people is really interesting and to others is so powerful
actually of going, do you know what?
That's it. I'm going to build a business
out the thing that I've been passionate about before and
listening to your story. But it doesn't kind of stop
there, does it? You've got, you've got half a
million followers, I think across social at the moment that
given that you've only been running, what, 2 1/2 years, just
say April 20, two, 2 1/2 years until now.
How have you grown such an audience in such a short space
of time? OK, so definitely the main
answer is process videos. Have you heard of the show?
How it's made actually? Yes, Yeah, yeah of.
Course I loved that show so much.
Watching like milk bottles being filled up in a factory and
you're like that's how they get milk from a cow to a bottle to
my house. That makes sense though.
And I don't think a lot of people realize how much time
goes behind. Just like basic things, basic
everyday things. But also everyone's so
interested in it too, I think. At least I am.
Yeah. So I, I looked at creators that
were similar to me or artists that were similar to me and
basically took their video style and made it into my own with my
own creations. And I also started a TikTok
account for our cats. We have 3 cats and it's, it did
really well. And that's when I was like, oh,
I could actually maybe do an online business and this is how
it would market it without paying for ads, which would be
like a huge amount of money that I just, I didn't have to spend.
So process videos helped me grow so quickly.
And the first summer that I started growing, I think I grew
like 80,000 in the summer or 100,000, which is terrifying by
the way. It's much nicer to have a slow
burn, but I'm really happy it happened too.
Yeah, of. Course.
But yeah, process video, sorry, you go ahead.
No, I was just going to say like I used to.
So I used to have a YouTube channel years ago.
Don't bother looking for it anyone.
I used to blog Rd. trips I was doing around Europe in a bus I
bought. But I remember like saying to a
friend of mine in the earlier days and I was like, I've only
got like 5000 views like hardly. I was watching this thing and he
was like, no, no, imagine 5000 people every day.
I was doing daily video, sitting down and watching that thing and
suddenly it was like, OK, I'm missing a trick.
And I sometimes use that example to clients to say when they say,
oh, we've only had like 1000 people on our website in the
last week. I'm like, OK, but 1000 people
dropped in. Only two purchased.
And it's, you know, small numbers at the moment, but those
998, we need to get in their heads.
We need to get in their heads quickly.
Why didn't? It because they're interested.
Exactly what did they learn from the advert they didn't get from
the website or what's not convincing to purchase or do
they need to come back later and we need to fax that into our
customer journey. But so to interrupt you.
But yeah, just like that, imagining that audience, 100,000
people, like as you say, it kind of boomed quickly.
But like, it's terrifying when you picture like, that's a
massive baseball stadium for the people.
Yeah, no, the moment when I hit 100,000, I was sitting with my
boyfriend and I was just like, this is kind of crazy.
And he's like, yeah, you realize that is 100,000 actual humans.
And I was like, oh, oh, no, I don't want to think about that
quite yet. But yeah, that's a lot.
Yeah, yeah. And tell you it's fascinating
then that you've used. And I'm more of a cat than a dog
person. So soon as you say cats, my
heart warms up slightly and I love dogs, but cats, I just.
Yeah, I love cats to bits. I can see you looking to see if
one's. Around and I'm surprised there's
not one in here right now. It's yeah, yeah.
But I think certainly with cat videos, it's something people
are really interested in. But how do you go from like,
here's a cute cat to then like, here's a product like, how did
you start to bridge that gap? Realizing that, I mean through
these cute videos, I would do like I would set up obstacles
for them or give them a new toy or a treat.
And I realized that once people see my cats enjoying this thing,
they are interested in getting it for their cat.
And so it's like them seeing what their life or what their
cat could experience and enjoy. But I didn't really go that
approach with my business because process videos really
they add value because you're you're showing the whole process
and you realize how much work is put behind something.
But they're also educational, which then draws in other
artists or small business owners who are doing something similar.
And that is why it's so such a valuable video.
And that's why it can grow an account so quickly.
Yeah, yeah. And I think it's well, like
something that sprung to mind that I think is really, really
key here. And there's someone who works in
PPC and SEO, you know, my entire career, like nearly nearly 20
years, I, I find that one of the toughest things we have really
is bringing value to customer or explaining the value of a
product. But I don't know why I didn't
think of this sooner when we've been looking at this series of
episodes we're doing with people like yourself.
But that kind of how it's made the process of creating the
product, the behind the scenes, the value of product when you're
then holding it in your hand as a customer, it must be
infinitely higher than just that's a nice pair of sunglasses
add to basket purchase and they cost me $40.
And when they break, they break and I buy another set and it's
the whole kind of waste culture kicks in.
It's so different. It must be so different for the
customers when they actually seen the product or even if it's
not the same one that you that they've bought, that they've
seen you make. But just seeing you make
something go, wow, she puts so much effort into this item.
The value of that item now is like, you know, whether you're
charging kind of 20 to $40 or something per product, the value
must be astronomical to them of going, yeah, I found this lady
online. She makes them herself.
They're so cool. It must also lead to a lot of
like referrals from existing customers to new customers.
They must tell their friends and say, oh, especially when
Halloween massive in it's big in the UK, it's huge in the US and
Canada. So like must be a big thing for
you guys where like people see stuff and go, oh, where did you
get that from? And next thing you know, you're,
you're getting emails from people saying like, oh, my
friend had these. I can't see them on the website.
Can I get a similar set? Are you making any more?
Yeah, yeah, it happens a lot because as soon as someone asks,
they're like, Oh yeah, this is where I got it.
This is how she did this little part on it.
And you can go watch the videos or yeah.
And I'm going to talk a little bit more about kind of there's
much we talk about like the product and the process and
social and stuff on this. I want to talk a little bit
about how you feel or how you felt through this journey as
well, because it must have been so rewarding.
Going back to my very first question of like, how did you,
how do you go from creating, you know, creating stuff and
enjoying that as a passion to then making a business out of
it? But how rewarding is it for you?
And, and I guess I don't know if you've run any other businesses,
but you it must feel so much more rewarding than someone like
myself who just went on Alibaba one night, purchased the crate
of stuff from China and started trying to sell it.
Oh, it's so rewarding. I mean, I, I mentioned earlier,
I started my business as a bath bomb business because I didn't
think anyone would be interested in buying handmade jewelry that
I made. So the fact that that is what
took off and that's what I really enjoyed was just huge to
me. And I because of it, I found a
community of people that were like me both online and locally
that I could help and also receive help from kind of just
like a really good support system.
And also now I can work from home and have time to see my
family and friends and make it to a like big events that maybe
I couldn't before, or I can call out of work when I'm really sick
because I'm my own boss. So yeah, it's it's really
rewarding. I work more than I ever have in
my life, definitely. But it's for me.
Yeah. So it's, yeah, it's very.
Nice. Yeah, yeah, it's so much more
rewarding I think as well. When?
Yeah, when you get up in the morning and go.
I'm going to start two hours early.
I'm going to finish late tonight and I didn't, I don't do it
regularly. My non negotiable is 5:00 PM.
In fact, we're finishing recording this episode at 5:00
PM and I've got about two 2 emails to send quickly, which
will take me two minutes and I'm out of that door.
So I kind of start early. But 5:00 PM I cut off.
I have to have an evening. I have to spend time with my
wife or actually it kind of throws me.
But but at the same time, being an entrepreneur, being your own
boss, it's not for everyone. Some people really struggle, I
think with the self motivation and yeah, and actually just you
have to be so organized as well. And we'll talk about that a
little bit more as we go through.
But yeah, certainly having that free time, but also I think
working more. But you know, you know the
rewards are coming. Going into your, your heart and
your bank account and those are the two reasons anybody goes to
work in the, you know, every day is actually the rewarding side
of it. But also like there are bills to
pay at the same time. So you've got 100,000 followers
at this point. You mentioned about selling bath
bombs first as well. How did things unfold?
That was the first kind of, I think you said 6 to 9 months or
whatever. How did things unfold after
that? Like what's the next step in the
in the journey? Well, the bath bombs didn't do
very well, which was funny because I put like 3 months of
research into them. I, I made my own recipes.
So I had so many bath bombs that we just are still getting
through two years later. But so then I launched my
website in April and I was, I was building up to it on social
media and and making posts to let people know.
So I had a little bit of a following but just like a couple
100 people and the earrings to better.
So then about six months in I had my first video that was
jewelry related go viral. The one I had before that was me
painting my ceiling. It was like a 5 second video on
TikTok and I was like why this? Why?
So I finally had a jewelry video go viral and this was probably
like very early spring of 2023. Then that would have been a
year. I don't know when this was.
I think it was about six months in.
I had my first video go viral and my website sold out and I
maybe had like 20 things on there.
Everything was priced way too low because I don't understand
how I should price things correctly yet.
And I made like $300.00 in a day.
And I remember looking at calling my boyfriend and saying,
oh OK, I can do this for a living making $300.00.
I'll just live off of that. It'll be fine.
But the only reason I was able to leave my job at where I was
working was a brewery was because I was able to get into a
bunch of markets, local markets that I knew could support me
through the summer. And if I didn't grow more online
before winter, then I would go back to working in the brewery.
And I just took off online that summer and was.
Able to continue. Yeah.
Amazing.
And it, it is scary, isn't it?
Even if you've got all the proof in the world, like quitting your
day job for the first time, it's it can be terrifying.
But do you ever find that in your warehouse you have dead
stock. When you say viral in a ceiling
painting video, I loved your comment of like, why that video?
What I guess in your experience, I know you kind of 10 1/2 years
into this, in your experience, like what, what determines do
you think that like to make a video go viral on kind of
Instagram, TikTok? What what where do you think the
algorithm goes? Like, OK, this is some really
good content. I'm going to push it to
everybody. Well, you know, sometimes I have
no idea, but. Me neither.
I think most of the time it's when you have something that's
really eye-catching in the start.
Like sometimes I like to start my process videos just like in
the middle of a process. So just grab someone's attention
or I put a title on it. I think with the ceiling
painting video, it was because I'm, you know, the views from
like below and it's looking up at me and I was just painting
it. I had these taped lines on my
ceiling because I painted like a bunch of different colors going
up onto it. So it was just like a weird
thing to see. And it was a short video.
I meant to post it as a story on TikTok.
And because of that, I, I think that's why I took off.
It was short. It was a weird angle to start
from and people were like, what the heck's going on?
And so they stayed, and that just pushed it to a bunch of
people. Yeah, yeah, I've certainly been
sold to by loads of videos going like, hey, you can make your
grass look really cool and the edges by trimming them like
this. And I'm like, I need that
product or like, I'm going to try that with my strimmer, see
what I can see what results I can get on the grass in the
garden. But yeah, I think, I think
people, I think it's going back to what you said earlier, people
are fascinated by how it's made, like where things actually come
from. I also love those.
I don't know if you've seen them recently, but just reminded me
of the where you put they put stuff in hydraulic presses.
So they put like a load of Skittles in and then they press
them and all these like this rainbow just pops out as
Skittles. And stuff and.
People are fascinated, but they always build it up, don't they?
It's always like Skittles, hydraulic press, down it goes
and then it cuts and it's like, hey, it's such and such
laboratories. We're doing this, this and this
and you're like trying to. Skip, I would be so mad.
No, OK. I don't like that marketing.
No, it works, but it is it works.
Frustrating. But yes, but I'm like, I want to
see that being squished, you know?
Yeah, Yeah. So I guess have you got any
advice then to like a bigger, bigger brand from where you are?
So someone's been running like 10 years, got a whole team of
people, big warehouse products. What are some of the things you
think that really start to get people to tick?
Like let's take a more traditional product like say you
were selling, I don't know, lighting for homes, like table
lamps, floor lamps, stuff like that.
What what kind of videos to do with that do you think would
really start to get some traction on TikTok versus what a
lot of brands do? That's just here's another video
of a product being turned off, turned on.
And it's like, why would I watch that?
I think showing how it can transform a space, especially
with lighting, like I hate ceiling lights.
I don't know how you feel about them.
My sister loves them, She's crazy.
But it is just so uncomfortable to me.
So I think like showing a room with just like bad white ceiling
lighting and then showing the quick transformation and then
being like this is how we did it with our lighting.
Something like that or you know, another how it's made video
showing how they make the lights because I want to know how
that's done. Or just even showing a little
behind the scenes of the people that work there, because then
you feel more connected to this brand as a customer too.
Yeah, yeah. I love that we always have a
lighting client. And I'm instantly now like, OK,
I need to send them an e-mail about this because yeah, a lot
of a lot of the videos they put out are exactly what I just
described that are like, here's another light, here's another
light. And it just kind of the video is
just like there's a light on a table and the camera just kind
of pans by and you're like, what is this?
Yeah, just showing the product. Yeah, it doesn't.
Yeah, yeah, it doesn't give it, but I think the transformation
as well. Yeah, I saw a really cool advert
about it was for paint, paint walls, similar to your video of
the ceiling. But what it was is the guy would
like, it'd show a room and go like, isn't this room beautiful?
And they would choose a really beautiful room.
And you look at it and go like, yeah, how you going to make that
any better? And he, like, clicks his fingers
and all the walls change color and sometimes even just subtly.
But they would also improve the lighting and the furniture
would, you know, the sofa would now be like, properly puffed up
and stuff so it looks really comfortable.
And they'd do all of that, but they would transform and you'd
go, their paint is really nice, you know, and also they'd show
stuff like when you're looking at a wall and you're like, Oh,
you can see a reflection of the light on this wall.
And then now it's a nice matte colour.
I mean, my dad is a, well, he's retired.
I mean, he was a painter. So I learned quite a lot about
paint over the years. But I think they, I think you're
right. I think that kind of
transformation we, I always use the phrase in marketing that
features tell benefits sell. I think so many businesses
start, they just go to town on features and go like this car
has four wheels, it's red, it's got windows, it's got a steering
wheel. And you're kind of like, all
right, fine. It's got an Apple Car plate like
all cars have now and then. But actually what you want to
say is like if you drive this car, you will feel so relaxed
around. The city?
Yeah, you need to. Advertise it to people in the
city. Make it more personal, like how
is it going to improve your life or make you happy in your life?
Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
And what are some of the big channels that you feature on,
like social channels that you target?
Is it, do you find TikTok is like the thing taking off?
Is Instagram still big? Is there anything else you're
getting some success with? Actually, when I first started
growing, I first started growing on TikTok, probably because of
that painting video. And then shortly after I started
growing on Instagram and I found when I started going on
Instagram is when I really started getting more sales.
But at the time, I didn't really even know how to use Instagram
very well. I was mostly on TikTok.
And now today, I'm mostly on Instagram and I don't really
know how to use TikTok very well.
But as TikTok growth got larger and larger, I started seeing
sales just a lot later than I did on Instagram.
So I think it's interesting that so many brands want to be on
TikTok and. I was going to say yeah.
Yeah, especially like working with brands and partnerships
they're more interested in in TikTok, whereas I personally
feel like Instagram is better. But I think it just depends on
who you're trying to target. I still think TikTok has a
younger audience. Maybe like 15 to 30 is like
what's mostly on TikTok, whereas Instagram's a little bit wider.
Facebook I think you definitely get an older crowd and YouTube
you just get everyone. So it's I think maybe some
brands are just trying to target a younger audience and that's
why they want TikTok. But I definitely focus on
Instagram mostly. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I think you're absolutely right.
I saw quite an interesting, almost like kind of age
demographic tree. And at the top of it was
Facebook with the older audience, then Instagram, then
TikTok. And as you say, YouTube was kind
of wrapped around everybody. But interestingly, the content
within YouTube, it was it varied a lot.
Like certainly once you get above the age of like 55 on this
report, it said that it actually switches to much more of a male
demographic. And I thought, well, that's
interesting. So I read through some more of
the information in this survey they did with YouTube.
And the really interesting thing on YouTube was that it got into
like lots of how it's made, how they built this new bridge.
Men having midlife crisis with like their lawns, sports cars,
you know, I don't know if you guys call it the same thing over
on the other side of the Atlantic, but we call it a
midlife crisis. We see a guy like mowing his
lawn with a pair of small scissors, you know, like cutting
every single play. It's like, it's like, oh, man,
we feel for you. Like, and he's taking up guitar
as a as a new hobby and stuff like this.
But yeah, it was really interesting just to see that
breakdown. And but yeah, I exactly the same
as you've just said, a lot of brands we talked to are like, we
need to be doing stuff on Instagram and we're like, OK,
we'll do some stuff on Instagram.
They're like, no, no, no, no, Tiktok's bigger.
We need to do stuff on Tiktok. And I'm like, that's not really
your brand. Like if I look at all the
content that just kind of comes up on TikTok, a lot of it is
like funny videos, pranks, products that, as you say, like
a 15 to 30 year old, which I'm above that bracket now, but you
know, sort of 15 to to 30 year olds.
Yeah. We would engage with.
It's really interesting to get more traction on Instagram
because we have found most brands we talked to are like,
yeah, just push anything out on TikTok.
And actually our podcast reels get more traction on TikTok as
well than they do on Instagram. Until we changed a couple of
things, which I'm not going to go into to say, but we changed a
couple of things on Instagram and we're now getting 10s of
thousands of views per real, which is kind of cool.
But I want to talk about something completely different.
Now we're talking about the world of social.
But I want to, yeah, I want to do almost like a complete
switch. Obviously all the stuff we've
spoken about is really fun, making behind the scenes videos,
creating your product and that sort of thing.
But we did mention earlier, like there are taxes to pay, there's
rent to pay, there's accounts to be done, there's customers to
reply to, there's refunds to push, there's technical issues
on your Shopify store that you've got to go and fix.
How do you balance your time when it's just you in the
business? How do you balance your time to
make sure those things get done whilst also making sure you do
the funds creative stuff that does actually bring in the sales
in the first place? So not very well, I'm not very
good at it, but I will tell you what I have figured out.
And I also actually now as of this year, my boyfriend
officially is an owner in my business as well.
Nice. Yeah, yeah.
So he takes care of. Yeah, it's really nice.
So he does a lot of assembling of the pieces that I make, and
he also does all the shipping. So I'll write thank you notes.
And then he takes it over from there, packs everything up and
ships it out. And then I also have a friend,
Caitlin, who deals with a lot of or handles a lot of admin work
for me. So replying to certain emails,
DM's, comments, anything that she can answer.
And then she lets me know what I need to check out.
So in the morning, I always start my morning going on my
computer. I look to see if she's left me
any notes and then go from there, check my e-mail, check
comments, any of that. But it's really easy to get
sucked into it and start on all these other projects on your
computer. So I like to at least have an
hour set for the day. And then if I have a lot more
computer work, I'll try to plan that all into a different day so
I can just be focused on it. Like especially with editing
videos too, so I can just sit down and do that and just like
let my eyeballs fry out of my brain.
And then I find with creating things, it's so much easier to
set aside like a whole day or the rest of a day after your
computer work to just really focus on that project because
otherwise you're going to keep getting pulled out of it.
And then you can't get into a really good creative flow.
You say you end your days at like 5:00 PM. 5:00 I'm gone.
That is, that's it so smart. And that is really kind of where
I fail and I find myself reaching burnout after like a
month or two over and over again.
And I feel like I learn from it every time.
I learn how to make it a little easier and actually have time
for myself and days off and and nights off.
But that is a huge thing that is so smart that you're doing that.
And I think you become more productive and creative.
That's it when you give. Yourself that time, yeah.
Yeah, if I don't get it done by 5, it's not getting done today.
And and I tell you, one of the biggest things I've learned
about my personality as well. And my point here really is same
for you and all of you guys listening at home.
You need to, you need to work to your strengths.
And everybody says that and it doesn't make any sense until you
have a few burnouts and failures and stuff, I'm afraid.
But one of my biggest fears is letting people down.
So if I don't get that e-mail sent, I don't have that
conversation. I don't complete that document.
I don't write that marketing strategy.
I don't make that sales call that I need to make to a new
client. Like, if I don't do that, I tell
myself I'm going to let someone down here.
Someone's not going to be happy with me.
And that's the kind of thing that does keep me awake at
night. So yeah, if anyone that has sent
any hate mail into the podcast, like, it really does hurt.
I'm joking. We've had no hate mail in years
like. That is an interesting thing
though, like people don't want. There's such a disconnect
sometimes, and I think that's also why it's a good thing to
create a stronger connection with your customers or
followers, your audience, whatever, because I think people
don't realize there's an actual human behind some of these
things. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I whenever I'm like talking to customer service these days,
I do always try and almost like when I kind of give the big like
sucker punch, like this is my big issue.
I always try and leave with the statement like, and whoever I'm
talking to, I use their name even.
So like on live chat, I'll say, look, Sam, I'm sorry.
Like I know it's not your fault personally, but I am having all
of these issues and I'm really, really unhappy about it.
So at least Sam doesn't feel like I'm attacking them.
They they're like, yeah, I get that you've had these issues.
I'm here to help and I'll try and finish those messages as
well with like. So I'd appreciate your help
because I've, I mean, the amount of brands I've worked with and
also working here as well. We have had some people over
over the years and there'll be more in the future, I'm sure who
just they just lay in so hard at you and you're like, I've
personally put loads of time into this.
And I think sometimes, and I think a really good question to
ask you as someone who actually makes your product as well is
like I say to my team a lot like focus on the fact that you work
for our clients. Like try not to be like take
pride in what you do, but don't get too attached and too
protective. Because if the client says like,
I see what you've done, but it needs to be blue, not red and
you love red. It's like it's not for you, it's
for the client. We work for them.
The same with you and your customer.
You must have had to, like, consider that over the last
couple of years as well. Just like making sure to go
like, it's for them, not me. So even if I don't love it, it's
fine. Like, I'm not going to get
protective, everyone. I'm going to get upset about it.
But yeah, it's not easy, especially in a creative space
where it's like you do something you think is beautiful and
someone's like, I don't like it. And you're like, oh, come on.
Like, you know, I put my heart in that.
There's definitely when it comes to the things that I'm making
that are handmade, like if I post a video, I won't, I'll stop
looking at the comments if it reaches 1,000,000 views.
I don't want to see what anybody's saying because I know
that sometimes I can't take it. But I also worked in customer
service for nine years, so I'm kind of ready for most things
too. Yes, But being empathetic and
blunt with someone I think is really good.
Like what you're saying when you send emails and you're like, I
understand where you're coming from.
Here's how I feel, but with the handmade creations, I, I really
have a lot of creative freedom over them.
I'd say with the partnerships I do, actually recently one of the
ones I did, I got feedback from them and they basically were
like, you are just slurring your words.
We don't like the voice over completely redo it.
And then they listed out time stamps of everything they wanted
changed. And, and I was at first I was
like, oh, that's a little harsh. And I thought, oh, actually this
is really nice. It's so well organized.
I know exactly what it needs to do, but yeah, they were just
like very to the point like no, no coding, no frosting on it or
anything. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Like I've definitely certainly with some of the younger people
that we've like hired and younger inexperienced my ad not
in age like the whole kind of like age stereotype.
I've had to like burn throw out the window like I.
Just oh, yeah. I mean, you started when you
were 17, right? Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So and I was managing when I was
19 in restaurants and fine dine in restaurants.
It's like you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I know what you mean. Yeah, and some of the I mean,
just the inside this wall, I say to someone every episode, man,
just say this wall to my team and some of the younger guys on
my team are absolutely incredible.
If you if you missed, if anyone missed an episode, by the way,
check out she was wearing one of these bright pink winning wish
off my T-shirts boots ago. My colleague Liv running around
the e-commerce Expo here in London.
It's a mile and a half long and it's just got e-commerce stuff
going on every, everywhere you look.
And she was running around interviewing people and she's
never done anything like that before.
Absolutely smashed it. It's the first episode since I
think 2020 that I've not been in.
And I'm. Yeah, that was my first, first
episode I did, I think it was it's going to be 3 weeks before
this one guys, to go back a few weeks.
But yeah, my colleague lived never done anything like that
before running around. Absolutely incredible.
And we actually ran out of time on what we posted to put all of
the interviews that she did and we just chose the best ones.
But yeah, again, it's like exactly the same as you when you
were 19. It's like empowering people to
do the right thing at the right time.
But I do think, I mean bringing it back to your business, I do
think that like. That personal touch, it does
protect you in a way. There are going to be those
times though, where someones just like, I don't care, I'm
angry and it's not your fault, but it's become your problem.
I'm going to make it your problem.
And you just got to kind of take a deep breath and almost, and
someone said to me a while ago, it was specifically actually
about we're having a bit of an issue with a client and they
started to get quite aggressive and personal towards us.
We were like, we're just trying to help you here.
Like, you know, is this really how you're going to talk to
people And like your team are angry with you and we're angry
with you. Like you should be fired, but
you own the business. We can't get rid of you.
But I think at that point, someone said to me, like, it's
only people that are currently hurting that will hurt others.
And when you remember that, you're like, OK, I've, I've not
hurt them here. If I have, I need to sort that
out. And but I do think is whether
wherever we work in marketing, we're going to, we're going to
get those comments in on social, especially, you know, it's a
really public forum. We're going to get those
customer service emails. And I think sometimes you just
got to kind of go for a quick walk, take a deep breath and go
It's. Not and.
Actually, if the world is that way, I'm going to try and change
it, that's what. I'm taking a moment to really
like, think and not just react. Emotionally is so big.
We've all written a message and deleted it before we sent it.
I definitely said some things when I was managing in
restaurants that I shouldn't have, but it got to the point
where I realized that just just talk to people like they're
human and explain what's going on to them.
And most of the time they're incredibly understanding, even
if they come at you aggressively at first.
Yeah, One of the most incredible things a friend of mine said to
me years ago, and I've adopted this actually in both client
relations and certainly looking at like customer service.
And we've had clients in the past like where we've had to
deal with bad press. Like you search their brand name
and the first thing up on Google is a news article that's really
bad. And it's like you do PPC and
SEO, that's Google, like fix this.
And actually the thing to ask the person that's got an issue
or they're complaining about something is just to say, look,
what do you want in this? And ask them that question
because it completely stops them and goes, all right, these
people are actually trying to like solve something for me
here. What do I want?
Well, I want an apology or I want a refund or it's like,
cool, we can organize that for you.
And I'm sorry for what you've been through.
And like the whole situation suddenly diffused.
There is the odd person that's not reasonable, but I do, I do
think like certainly in the world of social media, we've got
to be ready for this. And I think so many brands like,
you know, you get the owner or the CEO freaking out going like
we've launched a TikTok video like you said we should.
And someone said, I don't get it.
I'm they they don't get it. Like we see a whole waste of
time and stuff. Like I know it's one person.
1,000,000 views. So take that, take that comment
and make a video off of it. Yeah, yeah, I don't get it
right. No one, some people didn't get
our last video. So here's here's why you should
get it and it Yeah. And then people are going to go,
oh, I'll go on and go watch the last video and they've watched 2
and you've got 2 views and do one and say it was a smart idea.
I like that. I like that a lot.
But look, coming into land, yeah.
Final question for me is where, where are you planning to take
things like looking forward, what are you excited about?
What do you like? This is going to be a challenge.
You know what, what is it that you're aiming for in the kind of
short to medium term from from today?
Right now I'm making anywhere from 100 to 300 handmade pieces
a month, which is not sustainable physically.
I even had a physical therapist tell me, you know what, if you
keep going like this, you will have carpal tunnel in your
wrists and your hands. And I have had a lot of pain in
my hands. So really what I want to do is
reduce how many things I'm making, maybe just do like one
or two designs and then maybe one larger one-of-a-kind piece
that I'm working on throughout the whole month.
And then instead moving towards more partnerships and more
online free resources for other artists or small businesses
sharing my experience or giving them a tutorial on how to use
this art medium that will then be sponsored by a different
brand and paid for by that brand to supplement my income.
So mostly I want to go towards a more educational route and be
making more content, video content online for people, but
still making things just a lot less.
I love that. Way too much right now.
Yeah, IA friend of mine actually, his mum has been
working, been working in silver work all of her life and she has
cobble tunnel which is really painful.
And it's really sad because she like sees the things she used to
make and go. I just can't make stuff anymore.
Or if I do, it's takes me like a month to do one thing, which
used to take me a few hours. So I completely hear that.
And I, I think it's for you, it's one specific physical
challenge. But I think for everyone
listening, there will be limitations on you.
And it's probably one of the hardest lessons that I learnt
hiring people was how to actually manage and delegate and
inspire and motivate and all the other things that come with
leadership and management. And I'm no expert whatsoever.
My team will vouch for that as well.
And but yeah, I'm, I'm no expert at it, but I think it's exactly
what you're describing is like, how do you, yeah, how do you
grow kind of what you're doing really well.
And I think certainly your, your friend Caitlin and, and also
your boyfriend as well kind of helping out and getting involved
is a is a step towards that. But then it's almost just like
that physical issues now come out because that's where you're
spending a majority of your time.
Say, yeah, all businesses have that.
I mean, would you ever look at like doing more factory
production or hiring people to produce?
Or do you think actually you want to, as you say, you're
going to just kind of stick to that.
Let's go a bit more limited edition and do more kind of
online content and create earning from that.
Yeah, I don't think what I make would feel nearly as special if
I had other people making it. So I would rather keep it to me
making these handmade pieces. And maybe if I do more one of
the kind things, I could take photos of them and sell them as
prints or do more illustrations, move more into that, because I
haven't drawn in so long. I do every now and then, but I
want to be the one who is making the products that I'm selling.
So. But I've always loved making
videos so much and I really enjoy teaching.
Like, I wanted to be an art teacher when I was a kid.
I taught one semester of art and it basically broke my heart.
So I was like, OK, so we're gonna move this to online
somehow. Yeah.
So that's yeah. Cool, cool.
Well, look Bianca, I really appreciate your time.
It's been so good to have you on.
If people want to check out your all the stuff you make, check
out the business find you on social like what are your
handles web address like how can people get in touch?
My handles on all social media are Bellis Botanicals.
BELLIS Botanicals on Instagram, TikTok, Facebook, YouTube.
I'm just starting to post more long form videos on YouTube
that's really hard to plan in the editing time.
And then my website is just bellasbotanicals.com and I have
I have been having monthly collection drops.
It'll change to more every two to three months soon.
Amazing. So yeah, if you want to get, if
you want to get her products, then definitely go and get in
there soon because as you say, you're going to be making a
little bit less. So yeah, amazing.
Well, look, thank you so much for your time.
It's been so good to have you on and say, yeah, I appreciate you
sacrificing an hour to come and chat.
Yes, it's been great. Thank you.
Amazing. And for everybody listening at
home, we will be back again next Friday.
If you haven't already, check out the Growth Hub, hit
subscribe, leave us a review. And if you want to ask any
questions as well of any of our future guests coming up or any
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Send us a message or fill out one of the forms on the website
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We'll come back to you as soon as we possibly can.
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