1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,280 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,840 For a direct consumer business, so 100% online only, I think the 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,120 landscape has shifted massively. We don't know they're coming 4 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:11,480 from Meta. Some of them we do, some of them 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,560 we don't. But it's working like something 6 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:14,800 has shifted and something's changed. 7 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,360 Because Google Analytics was easy two years ago. 8 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,360 We used to be like, oh, last click, that's true, that's 9 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:23,200 accurate. Google doesn't hate AI. 10 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,000 But think logically. Why would Google not like the 11 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,560 idea of AI driven content? Because Google doesn't want a 12 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,080 content farm, it wants really well thought out. 13 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,160 Our partners at Saguna have released a brand new app for 14 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:37,880 Shopify and it's called Shopify Connect 4 Canva. 15 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,520 You can essentially look at all of your product images from 16 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,760 Shopify directly in Canva and export them straight back. 17 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,880 This can save you a lot of time. If you want to find out a bit 18 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,080 more about this or go and find the app yourself, you can go to 19 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,240 saguna.com/canva. Enjoy. 20 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:01,400 It's so good to have you guys tuning in quick couple of quick 21 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:03,560 shout outs, which I did shout out either last week or the week 22 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:04,560 before. It depends on all of their 23 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,760 posting some of our content each week. 24 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,760 But if you want to come on as a guest, if you're a brand, you've 25 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,600 got a really good story to tell them, please do reach out. 26 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,960 We've had some incredible brands reach out since we announced 27 00:01:12,960 --> 00:01:15,440 that again, either one or two weeks ago, depending on how 28 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,360 things lined up in the content. And also if you're interested in 29 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,400 sponsoring, partnering, getting involved in the show, do reach 30 00:01:20,400 --> 00:01:22,280 out to us as well. We have a few slots coming up in 31 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,240 the next few months, which we're hoping to fill. 32 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:26,720 So come and get in touch. Without further ado, I have an 33 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,840 absolutely legend of e-commerce back on the show. 34 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,320 He's been on a couple of times before, but Janice, welcome 35 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:32,760 back. Thank you for having me, Nick. 36 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,960 Well, it's an absolute pleasure. And Janice, you've been on the 37 00:01:35,960 --> 00:01:38,760 show twice before. If no one's caught you, I mean 38 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,800 their loss. You've got so much to share, so 39 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,240 many great insights. You're also on our community 40 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:45,800 growth hub. You're really active in there 41 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,400 helping everyone from sort of small little micro businesses to 42 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:50,640 chatting about stuff that some some of the guys in the group 43 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,760 are like, I've no idea what's going on, but this is really 44 00:01:52,760 --> 00:01:55,040 interesting. And tell us a bit about the 45 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,520 business you work for, your role and also how you got there as 46 00:01:58,520 --> 00:01:59,480 well. I think it's quite a quite a 47 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,000 cool part of your story. Yeah. 48 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,760 So I work for a direct to consumer brand called Look 49 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,199 Fabulous Forever. We're a beauty brand for older 50 00:02:08,199 --> 00:02:11,120 women, but by older women I don't mean what the rest of the 51 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,880 beauty industry does, which is literally someone over 25. 52 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,800 Our customers are women post menopause, so our customers are 53 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,640 typically in their sixties, 70s and 80s. 54 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:25,080 I started there, God, nearly five years ago, originally 55 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,560 running marketing and ecommerce from both a commercial and 56 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,360 technical perspective, and now I'm Managing director there. 57 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,520 Amazing, amazing. I love your journey as well 58 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,600 because you obviously have shown so much insight and and 59 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,520 willingness to learn and adapt to get to where you are now. 60 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,360 But I also love the way you talk about your audience because a 61 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,240 lot of brands will say like, oh, we work with younger or older 62 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,880 demographics, whereas you actually defining it going 63 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,800 actually it's counter the industry massive part of your 64 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,440 story. Obviously now I was joking for 65 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:56,920 everyone listening. I was joking with Janice just 66 00:02:56,920 --> 00:02:59,560 before we started going, Hey, Janice, I've got 5 things we're 67 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:01,840 going to talk about today, but there could be 50 million things 68 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,240 that we could talk about and we could go on any sort of 69 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:05,800 tangents. My job today is to stop us going 70 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,880 on too many tangents. We're going to start off with 71 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,400 this one because I think you're going to have some really 72 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,560 interesting stuff to share on this and I'm quite keen to see 73 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:12,800 what's been evolving at your end. 74 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,880 July 23 is when you last came on. 75 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:18,080 What has been changing across the e-commerce landscape that 76 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,920 you've seen at conferences, in your business and in 77 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:23,200 publications, all the kind of digital things you're involved 78 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:25,200 in? What have you seen change over 79 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,120 the last just under two years? Yeah. 80 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,720 I mean, I think for a direct consumer business, so 100% 81 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,520 online only, I think the landscape has shifted massively. 82 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:41,640 You've got, you know, really advantage plus shopping and 83 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,520 performance Max betting in. You've got AI, you've got 84 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,000 ChatGPT, you've particularly the stuff that ChatGPT have just 85 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,520 released around imagery, like the game is completely 86 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,440 different. And particularly when you put 87 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,800 that against a backdrop of what has changed from an analytics 88 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:05,160 and tracking perspective, that how we look at success is also 89 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,200 completely different. And I think businesses who are 90 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,640 doing it well have recognized that actually there was a lot of 91 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,640 things that we used to measure because they were easy to 92 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:20,160 measure, not because they were actually useful or accurate or 93 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:23,280 helpful. We always had a situation where 94 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:27,520 if you asked Google, if you asked Meta, if you ask your 95 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,160 e-mail platform how much revenue were generating, all of them 96 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,680 would tell you that they're generating 90% of your revenue. 97 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:36,840 And that was never. 100 in some situations, yeah. 98 00:04:37,200 --> 00:04:39,120 That wasn't never true. That was never true. 99 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,560 And just because Google Analytics was easy two years 100 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,320 ago, we used to be like, oh, last click, that's true, that's 101 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,280 accurate. And it never was. 102 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:52,760 And I think smart businesses have taken it as an opportunity 103 00:04:52,840 --> 00:04:57,640 to look at things differently, whereas I think a lot of 104 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:01,480 businesses have got stuck trying to get the same data that they 105 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,880 used to get. But if you just, you know, like 106 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,960 I've said, you know, particularly on the forum 107 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:12,360 before, you know, I think attribution is complete rubbish 108 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:19,480 because because ultimately your customer and particularly if 109 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:21,680 you're doing it well, that you're actually building a 110 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,440 relationship with a customer that you want to keep long term. 111 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,640 Not someone who sees you on Google Shopping once, clicks on 112 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:29,840 your product and then can't even remember who you are. 113 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:33,280 If you're doing it properly and you're building a relationship, 114 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,560 then that customer is going to have dozens, if not hundreds of 115 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:39,920 touch points on the journey to purchase. 116 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:43,360 And actually if you're getting really bogged down in the detail 117 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:48,640 of is that one touch .1% or 2% of the journey, which you can 118 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,800 never truly know what's going in that customer's head. 119 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,320 Even the customer doesn't know what's going on in their head. 120 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,040 So if you're, I think fundamentally, if you take a 121 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,960 step back and think about how does this work from a holistic 122 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:06,920 perspective and what role should paid ads pay, should organic 123 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:11,120 content pay, should video pay, should e-mail play, all of those 124 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:14,480 things, If you're looking at how they work in concert together to 125 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,040 provide an experience for your customer, I think ultimately 126 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:19,080 you're going to have more success. 127 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,080 So I think good brands have taken it as a shake up in a 128 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:28,600 positive way to look at how they do things, whereas a lot of 129 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:31,120 brands have struggled because they're just trying to replicate 130 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:32,800 the reporting that they used to do. 131 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,560 Yeah, I, I think, I mean, you've hit the attribution button 132 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:37,640 immediately. I love that. 133 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:39,000 There's one thing I love about Janice. 134 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:40,640 Everyone is she won't beat around the Bush. 135 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:42,280 You'll go. This is the issue right now. 136 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,440 You're absolutely right. We we've done campaigns where 137 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,760 we've boosted like Facebook ads and Facebook, like last click 138 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,480 attribution in GA 4 has not changed. 139 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:52,560 And it's like that's been a waste of time. 140 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,240 It's like, have you seen what's happened on Google? 141 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:56,280 Have you seen more e-mail subscribers we've got that are 142 00:06:56,280 --> 00:06:59,080 buying products like we don't know they're coming from Meta. 143 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,720 Some of them we do, some of them we don't, but it's working like 144 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,480 something has shifted and something's changed. 145 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:05,440 I think as well. I love what you say about 146 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,240 actually looking holistically at the touch points and saying 147 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,840 what, what content should we put out on YouTube on display? 148 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:13,720 How much of our budget should we attribute to that? 149 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,800 And I mean, the ultimate thing is no one ever really knows. 150 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,720 But you start changing some of these things and you see what 151 00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:21,480 happens to bottom line. And one of the most frustrating 152 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:26,320 things we find is an ad agency doing SEO and PPC is the direct 153 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,640 channel on GA 4. We're like, just reveal 154 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,240 yourself. Tell us, tell us all your 155 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,240 secrets. Where did you all come from? 156 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:34,840 And one of my clients, interestingly, they've they've 157 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,400 done a post purchase survey and they put like, where do we come 158 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,400 from? And my first response to this 159 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,360 was actually to say something like, don't do that. 160 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,120 There's much more valuable information we should be 161 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:45,040 learning. And they were like, yeah, but 162 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,400 have you seen what that says versus because someone who's 163 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:50,640 coming to the site three times direct will still say, I found 164 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,840 you on Google, which means originally they found us on 165 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,560 Google. And that is the most important 166 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,200 piece of information is they found us on Google. 167 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,320 Google's really important to us. And so I, I love what you're 168 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,680 saying about the attribution is, is changed. 169 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:04,400 It's forced retailers to rethink things. 170 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:07,240 How do you think? And it's a slightly loaded 171 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,360 question, So I have a lot to say on this. 172 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:11,680 I'm going to ask you first, how do you think that changes the 173 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,920 dynamic then between the people that look at the data to try and 174 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,520 make decisions and the people that come up with something 175 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:21,160 crazy but creative that actually does execute and do something 176 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,600 quite, quite powerful, but wasn't planned? 177 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,320 It was like we're just testing. We're just working with some 178 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:28,640 ideas here in terms of creatives or USPS. 179 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,159 Yeah, I think both of those things are like really, really 180 00:08:33,159 --> 00:08:37,400 important. And I think for US, I think 181 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,880 particularly the way that Meta works now with Advantage plus 182 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,400 shopping, the fact that you could have up to 150 creatives 183 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,840 in an ad set means that why wouldn't you launch new 184 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:51,520 creatives and just see what happens? 185 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:54,240 There's no, there's no harm. Back in the day when you could 186 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,120 only have 5 or 6 creatives, then it was a big risk. 187 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,360 Whereas now we typically launch, umm, at least three new creative 188 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,640 concepts a week. And some of them have been like 189 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:09,640 wild bets that you think, oh, that will never work, that have 190 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,000 been like wildly successful. And in that old environment, we 191 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,960 never would have tried them. And I think one of the things 192 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:21,480 that we've bought in this year that's been really helpful is 193 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,600 kind of trying to mash those that, you know, data analytics 194 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,840 and creativity together. So one of the things that we do 195 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,520 is we once a month, we bring all the different parts of our 196 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:38,480 marketing team together and they do a debrief on what happened in 197 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,840 their area the last month, what worked, what didn't work, what 198 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,480 are they going to do differently? 199 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,360 And it's not just that they're reporting out numbers and 200 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:52,040 results, but they're talking about the what was it about that 201 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:54,800 particular execution that worked or didn't work? 202 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:58,360 And because they're sharing that data and because it's a 203 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,320 collaborative ideas session, it's been great. 204 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,120 It's been that different people have learnt from other people 205 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:09,600 and taken on their perspectives. And so it's both a very 206 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,520 analytical and numbers based thing, but also an incredibly 207 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:17,040 creative meeting. Yeah, yeah. 208 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,800 And I love that, the power of that. 209 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,640 You said most of what I was going to say. 210 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,840 I'm going to add one more thing that yeah, I hear a lot of 211 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:26,440 marketing people on podcasts talking about and I, the more I 212 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:27,960 hear it, the more I'm seeing it first hand. 213 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,800 And it is that almost like argument between the FD going, 214 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,760 why am I approving this check? Like there's no proof this is 215 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,080 going to work. And then some creative somewhere 216 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,720 who's got the who's got the guts to stand up to the FD and 217 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:40,680 actually say to them, would you know what? 218 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:43,800 All the things that work right now were accidents, beautiful 219 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,440 accidents. So actually we need to work out 220 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:48,920 a way of funding accidents as much as we can because we'll 221 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,000 find new things. We try 10 things and one works, 222 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,440 you know something that works. And if you didn't try the ten, 223 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,800 you don't know what works, have you? 224 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,760 I mean, this is this is again, I think a really interesting 225 00:10:58,760 --> 00:11:00,600 question to ask you on this. And I've asked some clients this 226 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,440 recently. Have you found some really wacky 227 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,280 things where someone's gone, we're going to try this and 228 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:06,320 everyone's gone. Cool. 229 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,600 We can add that to the pile of doesn't work and actually it's 230 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:11,520 come back and gone. Why did that work? 231 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,760 Like it's, it shouldn't have worked and it has worked really 232 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,080 powerfully. You must have found some of 233 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,480 those through these creative learning sessions. 234 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,760 Yeah. So one of the things that would 235 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:23,440 like, it's still like blows my mind that this is incredibly 236 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,800 successful. So we have a number of 237 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,600 different, like Meta is our primary kind of acquisition, 238 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,440 like hard acquisition channel. You know, YouTube is really, 239 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:37,560 really important, but that's predominantly organic. 240 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,360 So Meta is our like hard acquisition channel. 241 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,800 But because we have so many creatives and because we have so 242 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,840 many new creatives, we're like, let's just throw that in and 243 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:51,480 find out. So we've got a number of kind of 244 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,000 campaigns with different objectives. 245 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:57,880 So this is a sales conversion objective campaign that we put a 246 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:02,440 creative in that was we were working with a partner and it 247 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:07,200 was like, enter this competition to win 100 lbs of stuff from our 248 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,600 partner, £100 from us. So this ad directs to a 249 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,400 competition landing page. There's no, you know, there's no 250 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:19,000 product, you know, there's like win something from us. 251 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:23,760 We run that with a sales conversion objective and it's 252 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,560 wildly successful. Plus we get all the, yeah, we 253 00:12:27,560 --> 00:12:32,360 get all the lead Gen. for free on top of what would work. 254 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,840 So it's just like, we would never have tried that because it 255 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:37,640 would be like, yeah, sure, you'd run it as a lead Gen. campaign, 256 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:40,640 but you wouldn't run it with a sales conversion perspective. 257 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,520 And he's like, well, why not give it a go? 258 00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:46,240 Yeah, Yeah, yeah. We've also done a thing. 259 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,440 I think I shared this the other day as well in the group, like 260 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:50,800 we do this with brand campaigns now, as we often put them on 261 00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:53,760 target impression share on Google and we find our click 262 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,840 costs like I've, I've just got case studies coming out of my 263 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,560 ears that help us win pitches. So like, we'll do this for you 264 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,800 as well. And it only works about 1/3 of 265 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:03,240 the time on non brand campaigns. A brand campaign, someone 266 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:05,600 literally typing your name into Google guys and and finding you. 267 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:09,280 But we, we, I think our best ones that over 90% reduction in 268 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:11,920 click costs, your ROI goes through the roof And suddenly 269 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,360 the conversation of like, oh, how much should we spend on 270 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:15,880 brands? Should we bid on our own brand 271 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:16,760 name? And they're going to click on 272 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:17,840 the rest here. It all goes out the window 273 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,160 because you're just like, we'll just do it. 274 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,080 It's like 8 PA click, like crack on. 275 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,440 Like don't want to lose them at the last minute. 276 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:26,640 And we don't have a, some, some companies we work with, they do 277 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:28,800 actually have an agreement with all their compass to say we 278 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,360 won't bid on each other. And that is really powerful 279 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,000 until a John Lewis or Amazon come along or Walmart and just 280 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,000 go like, oh, we're bidding on this. 281 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:36,880 It's like, right. Well, that agreements gone out 282 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,200 the window. We only start big on our own 283 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,040 names again and and Google wins and no one else, unfortunately. 284 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,560 And one thing you've not mentioned, which I mean you've 285 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,520 mentioned very briefly earlier and you know, I'm going to say 286 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:50,040 is AI. Where is AI not working for your 287 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:51,760 business and where is it working at the moment? 288 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:55,440 Like how much you guys really invested in AI tools, content 289 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,360 creation, all that sort of stuff? 290 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:01,280 Yeah. So I think the number one place 291 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,320 that AI is brilliant for us and you know is about to get even 292 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:10,160 better is imagery that particularly you can take a flat 293 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:12,360 product shot. And hey, now you don't even need 294 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,360 to take a flat a flat product shot. 295 00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:18,880 You can just take a picture on your phone and you can turn that 296 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:25,120 into a lifestyle image that for us, the both the time that it 297 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,440 would have taken to set up that shot to use a location, you 298 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:32,320 know, to get all the props, all of those things, the cost of 299 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:37,160 doing that, the creativity that it unlocks all of those things. 300 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:43,040 From an image point of view, we are lucky that we have both a 301 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,560 very strong brand, that we're very clear what our brand stands 302 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,680 for, and we have a very strong culture, which means I can 303 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:53,560 completely trust my team because I know they would never do 304 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,400 something that I would be uncomfortable with, like use AI 305 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,480 to generate a picture of a woman or a woman's skin. 306 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,120 Particularly. I saw an example on LinkedIn 307 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,560 last week that somebody was like, oh, show me a picture of a 308 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,400 51 year old man. And I was like that that dude is 309 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:15,040 75 if he's a day. So the the ageism that is baked 310 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,440 into AI imagery is really, really problematic. 311 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:22,160 But our team know that they would never do anything like 312 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,720 that and that would be inauthentic. 313 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,440 But for product lifestyle shots 100%. 314 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:30,400 Absolutely. I really agree with that because 315 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,720 the actual product itself you've shot, which is really the 316 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,880 powerful thing. And we've seen brands do 360's 317 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:37,080 of products and then by changing the background, they actually 318 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,800 just put a video behind it. But the AI blends in nicely 319 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:41,400 without changing the product itself. 320 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:43,840 We did call out a design agency recently. 321 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,480 They'd done the like wireframes and images and stuff for a 322 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,760 website and we said, did you use AIC's images? 323 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:50,720 No, no, no, of course not. You know, we've, we've got these 324 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,280 ourselves or they're royalty free or whatever. 325 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,520 It's like that basketball player, there's got 6 fingers, 326 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:56,440 where's that other finger come from? 327 00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:59,160 And then it was like, oh, this lady, she's got like one in her 328 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,440 bit ears on her head is Are you sure you're putting these like 329 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,960 blurry AI bitches on the end? The guy was like, I need to go 330 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:07,320 and give my team a kick out the backside. 331 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,000 So I'll be back in a minute. OK. 332 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,880 But it's just that I think as you say that AI humans are so 333 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,560 complicated, trying to recreate a human without basing it on a 334 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:19,480 human. I think it's just it's just it's 335 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:21,360 very, very difficult and it probably will get there at some 336 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,200 point. I tell you one thing we've been 337 00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:26,560 using it for is we used to use Photoshop and Canva to do to 338 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,720 like remove backgrounds and images, especially when we want 339 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:32,320 to see the white background image shots, the AI on Canva now 340 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,160 the background image remover is AI and it's fantastic. 341 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,640 It used to be you just have to go scrub it up a little bit or 342 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,360 change one thing. Like you'd put it up somewhere 343 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:40,800 and someone would go, oh, hang on a minute. 344 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,640 There's a random green dot next to the tire of that car. 345 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:46,360 What's that is, oh, that's the grass the car was on initially. 346 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,320 So like, but it's got much, much better. 347 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:51,640 And the other thing you can do as well with the AI is you can 348 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,520 get that shot and then tell the AI, can you sharpen up this 349 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:56,280 image for me? Because then like you were 350 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,760 saying earlier about the human, you're not asking the AI to 351 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:00,720 create someone or create anything. 352 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:02,680 You're just asking to go where there's currently a slightly 353 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,480 blurred line in the pixels. Increase the pixel count to make 354 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,400 the line completely smooth to the eye, which is really, really 355 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,480 cool. And let's game, let's change the 356 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:13,200 game slightly now. And so we're talking about the 357 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,440 future and stuff and where we are at the moment and the things 358 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,160 going on. But how much of that or how, how 359 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,200 much have you guys found that reflects on your customer? 360 00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,160 Like how much of your customer expectations changed, customer 361 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,400 journeys changed over that time? Yeah. 362 00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:31,920 I mean, I think what we've really seen is that the way that 363 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,600 we've always approached business, it's kind of 364 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:39,200 everything's kind of aligning with that approach. 365 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,640 So if we've always been about useful and helpful content, 366 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,680 that's been at the heart of everything we do, which is now 367 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,840 where Google's algorithm is increasingly focused. 368 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,840 So from a, from an SEO perspective, we spent a huge 369 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:58,760 amount last year that we like completely accidentally saw 370 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,800 massive improvements in our SEO just because we were doing the 371 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,800 right thing. And suddenly we're like, oh, 372 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,360 we've never really thought that much about SEO. 373 00:18:06,360 --> 00:18:09,880 Maybe if we we do a little bit better and the gains we saw on 374 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,640 it were absolutely, absolutely huge. 375 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,800 Because you had that helpful content in the first place. 376 00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:18,360 Exactly, exactly. And just like we worked with a 377 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:25,920 digital PR agency to get us like a few new high value links to 378 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,280 some very specific pieces of content. 379 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:32,840 And again, that just really, really helped us. 380 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:37,280 And we saw our search rankings just fly with the result of just 381 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,480 adding a little bit of extra seasoning to the quality of the 382 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:46,920 work that we were doing anyway. And the same with Advantage Plus 383 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,440 shopping, because every one of our products is designed with a 384 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:53,720 very specific use case. This in mind. 385 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,800 And you might suffer from that particular issue or you might 386 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,880 not. So the fact that the algorithm 387 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,560 can think about, oh, I'm going to show you this. 388 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,040 I'm, it's thinking about, oh, to what extent should I be showing 389 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:08,320 you brand stories? Should I be selling, showing you 390 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,000 tutorials? Should I be showing you product 391 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,760 information? Because we're doing all these 392 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,480 different things, the fact that the meta algorithm is now 393 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,360 leaning into that really, really helps us. 394 00:19:20,360 --> 00:19:23,920 So I think we've seen it's not necessarily our the way we're 395 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:27,400 doing things or what our customers expect from us, but 396 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:31,080 almost the technology has been catching up with the things that 397 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:34,640 we've always been trying to do. Which is really cool. 398 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,320 And someone said to me the day, and I guess a lot obviously 399 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:39,840 working in the SEO world, they said Google just keeps changing, 400 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,040 doesn't it? How do you keep on top of it? 401 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,760 I'm like, one thing has not changed about Google and that is 402 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:45,200 what they want. And you're exactly right about 403 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:47,960 helpful content. Google wants the best website 404 00:19:47,960 --> 00:19:51,120 for that user at #1 that's never changed. 405 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,520 Text changed. Like phones came out and people 406 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:54,560 could now scroll on their phones. 407 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:58,520 We've had their AI changes. And like even somebody a couple 408 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,720 of days ago said during a pitch we were doing, do you guys use 409 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:03,400 AI? Because I've heard Google hates 410 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:05,080 AI and we use it for articles a little bit. 411 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,480 So Google doesn't hate AI. But think logically, why would 412 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,640 Google not like the idea of AI driven content? 413 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,560 Because Google doesn't want a content farm. 414 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:15,160 It wants really well thought out. 415 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,080 So if you say to an AI, can you spruce up this article for me? 416 00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:21,400 Or can you write me an article using these 3 facts that we're 417 00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:22,720 going to release? Write me an article on that. 418 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,880 And then you tweak it a little bit and you train that. 419 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,320 That GBT agent, I think they're called I, I'm never one with 420 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:30,800 down with the kids. Like when, you know, blockchain 421 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,040 and stuff and Bitcoin came out. I had no idea what any of these 422 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:36,320 things were initially, but I think it's a GBT agent, you call 423 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:38,320 it. So we, we basically train one of 424 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,240 those little things at the top left on ChatGPT to go learn this 425 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:43,240 client, learn their tone of voice, learn what we like, what 426 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,200 we don't like. And we, we tell it stuff, we 427 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:47,920 tell it we don't like that word being used. 428 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,840 So please never use that word again in here. 429 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,200 Or if you do use it, please add a note to it to say, I know you 430 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:54,800 don't like this word, but I think it works really well here. 431 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,960 And so you're almost asking the AI to think harder and and get 432 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,480 more folks into what you want. So Google doesn't hate AI 433 00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:02,440 content. It hates the idea of someone 434 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,680 just going 1000 articles about snakes, please. 435 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:07,960 And it's my only phobia. I don't know why I chose that. 436 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,840 But and 1000 ask us about snakes because you sell products for 437 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,240 snakes or something. And it's just, you know, the 438 00:21:12,240 --> 00:22:12,760 whole process. It's funny actually, because the 439 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,760 the thing that we've struggled most with with AI is writing 440 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:22,040 stuff because there isn't enough content about what we do in our 441 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,560 target audience for it to write in a helpful way. 442 00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:30,240 So you know, kind of that that is is interesting in and of 443 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,480 itself. But yeah, I think it comes down 444 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:35,080 to our customers. And I think one of the things 445 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,200 that we do, which is really helpful is we do a quarterly 446 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:39,760 customer survey to our customers. 447 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,640 We have two questions. We always ask them. 448 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,360 One is, is there any content of ours that they found 449 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:49,400 particularly useful? And the second is, is there any 450 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,600 content they want to see from us in future? 451 00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:56,640 And while we do get ideas from it and it is worth doing from 452 00:22:56,640 --> 00:23:00,440 that point of view, actually the most helpful thing is the fact 453 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,360 that the same things keep coming up. 454 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,960 And it's very easy for us to think, oh, we need to always do 455 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,080 so much new content. Whereas actually a lot of it is 456 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,400 like, actually, how do we surface the really great content 457 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,400 we've got already on this topic that we clearly don't talk about 458 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,680 enough because our customers are still asking for it? 459 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,480 I, I heard a client a while ago say like, I still can't believe 460 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,560 that people don't know this, this and this about our product. 461 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:28,120 And I was just sitting there like, like, do you not see the 462 00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,240 opportunity? Like what you can do with that? 463 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,840 People still don't know. Well, get out there. 464 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,320 You've already you've already answered the question. 465 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,480 Tell them, you know, get that in front of people. 466 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,240 And if people keep forgetting, you know, turn that to your 467 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,840 goods like that is that means you keep reminding them. 468 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,680 You keep reminding people why they need to do this thing. 469 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,080 And some of the other day is sitting in the pub and it just 470 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,280 it all kind of hammered home on this kind of topic where he said 471 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,960 like, yeah, yeah, I'm trying this new diet and I kind of 472 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,360 half, oh, go on then what we doing now? 473 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:58,320 And it was like just another kind of health regime. 474 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,160 It's like, I'm going to drink loads of water. 475 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:03,160 I'm going to stop eating lots of sugar and red meat. 476 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,200 I was like, didn't you know any of that before you paid this 477 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,320 nutrition for this new diet plan? 478 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,080 And he was like, well, yeah. But I was like, So what you 479 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,320 actually paid for was the impetus of somebody to force you 480 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,080 to do it because you, you still don't have that level of 481 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,120 self-control like, like me and everybody else. 482 00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,840 But at least I'm not trying to like every every day be like, 483 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:22,920 I'm going on a new diet. I'm like, I know what's good for 484 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:23,720 me. I know it's not. 485 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:24,840 And I try and keep it in balance. 486 00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:27,560 It's kind of where I I feel happy and everyone else can 487 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,800 decide on that scale where happiness is for them. 488 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,400 But I think sometimes, yeah, when brands sort of say, like, 489 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:34,520 oh, what we're going to write about now and you say thinking 490 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,400 of new ideas, AI is quite good for brainstorming. 491 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,000 Like I know it's not technically a politically correct term 492 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,760 anymore, but for coming up with ideas. 493 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,160 So AI is good at coming up with ideas and sort of say like, and 494 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:46,320 we use it a lot with the podcast. 495 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,520 We, we actually, we use ChatGPT 4, I think it is or 4%. 496 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,560 So you can see the Internet and we say go on YouTube and tell us 497 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,040 what are the most watched videos globally on YouTube relating to 498 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,480 Shopify in the last week, in the last month. 499 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,440 And he's like, how long would that take me like hours and 500 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,360 hours and hours. And I get the answer in like 10 501 00:25:03,360 --> 00:25:04,880 seconds. It thinks about it and then it 502 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,000 comes back going, these are the top viewed videos that had 503 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,960 Shopify in the titles. It's like, cool, this thing's 504 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,280 trending. Let's do an episode on that. 505 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,240 And it just saves so much time for what we're trying to do. 506 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,000 But if we look forwards, Janice, there's some there's some things 507 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,920 going on at the moment. At the time of posting this, we 508 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,320 will be over a week into Liberation World, as Trump's 509 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,680 calling it. I'm trying to say his name too 510 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,680 much because obviously he's get marked as political and nobody 511 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,000 sees them these episodes. But obviously tariffs and things 512 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,200 are happening. There's a lot of uncertainty 513 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,160 here in the UK at the moment about a lot of things globally, 514 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,760 like the climate kind of crisis or whatever you want to call it 515 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,040 going on as the media are calling it. 516 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,240 What are some of the challenges that you're facing as a business 517 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,120 right now? Like as some of them, those kind 518 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:48,160 of big macro things are actually they're more kind of niche 519 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:49,760 things like I just can't find at all that does this. 520 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:55,040 All all of the above I mean our second biggest market outside 521 00:25:55,040 --> 00:26:00,080 the UK is is the US. So I'm, I'm personally skeptical 522 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,120 about an administration that wants to get rid of everyone who 523 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:10,640 does any kind of admin work and the US Postal Service and anyone 524 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,360 who knows how to do anything and then wants to implement tariffs 525 00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,840 on top of that. It's like, well, who and how are 526 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,840 you going to do that? So yes, I'm a little personally 527 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,800 skeptical about that. But as a business point of view, 528 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,200 it's like, well, how much do we invest in the US right now, 529 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,240 particularly because YouTube is so big for us. 530 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,720 So particularly our YouTube channel, our primary viewer is 531 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,920 going to be in the US From a sustainability perspective, 532 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,720 we've been working probably for about 18 months on refillable 533 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:44,320 compacts and just launched those in the last couple of months. 534 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:48,520 And that's really an exciting innovation for us that again, it 535 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,360 comes back to why is this a better experience for our 536 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,720 customer. And we got a lot of feedback 537 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,440 from our customers like, oh, you know, we want to go plastic free 538 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,480 kind of all of this stuff. And we said actually the better 539 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,160 experience is a refillable compact, something that you can 540 00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:08,920 keep and replace. And then it's also cheaper for 541 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,800 you because next time you keep the compact and you just buy a 542 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,720 refill and kind of all of those those things. 543 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:19,760 So we try to not just be like, oh, we're green washing this, 544 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:22,800 we're slapping on a, you know, we've taken all the plastic out 545 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,000 of our product. It's like, well, no, but this is 546 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,960 actually a better experience for everybody. 547 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,240 And yeah, I think we've got some interesting. 548 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,600 We've always had this kind of culture of experimentation, and 549 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:42,280 we like to, as you said earlier, just try some new things and 550 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:45,240 some of them work and some of them don't. 551 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,840 And I've just had one new thing that we've tried that somebody 552 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:51,960 else in e-commerce recommended to me. 553 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,520 And we've just had our first Test on it go live yesterday and 554 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,320 it's been wildly successful. So I'm like, Oh my God. 555 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,120 I say, you know, it's it's you know, when we get something that 556 00:28:02,120 --> 00:28:05,360 works, it's like, Oh yeah, let's let's lean into this. 557 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:08,800 So there were loads of opportunities for us. 558 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,160 It's just keep trying that thing because it's always, it's that 559 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,360 balance between growth and profitability. 560 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,640 Like what is more important? Because you can't. 561 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,560 You can't have, you can't have both. 562 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,960 Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I find it interesting with 563 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,600 some of the tech stuff we're playing with, I don't know if 564 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,040 you find this with some things, but when we do something that's 565 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,560 going back to like Google's motto, best website, when we do 566 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:37,480 something that's really basic and simple and very like this is 567 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,240 a good offering to our customers. 568 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,480 Like it always like dwarfs all these kind of like, are we using 569 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,280 AI on our chat now? And, and, and actually it's got 570 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,640 rid of 5% of customer issues. It's like, that's not a lot, is 571 00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,880 it? But actually, if we go back to 572 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,000 basic marketing go, why did they have the issue in the 1st place? 573 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,680 What content can be put in to answer those questions on the 574 00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:58,160 page, but structure in a way that's nicely designed. 575 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,520 So it's like the most important thing at the top and then loads 576 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,800 are nice to haves. I'm getting a good deal and 577 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,480 getting a good offer from this company even if it doesn't have 578 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,240 a strike, you know, struck out price and a discount price next 579 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,640 to it. But we're certainly finding that 580 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,160 it would. It's almost like companies, I 581 00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:17,000 think are too quick to jump on tech bandwagons and go like if 582 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,580 you see an advert for like a Shopify app or a Magento plug 583 00:29:19,580 --> 00:29:21,960 in, I know you guys want to Magento a Magento plug in 584 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,560 Shopify app that says like, you know, brands are swearing by 585 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:27,360 this thing and all the stats are saying 50% more revenue and 586 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:28,560 stuff. It's like, well, the question 587 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,880 really is, how is it like, oh, it coincided with them launching 588 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,240 something none of their competitors have. 589 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,920 It's like must have been the piece of tech, nothing to do 590 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,720 with the new product range. So I think it's, it's important 591 00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:40,000 to stay grounded with some of this stuff. 592 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:42,400 As you said, you didn't say we'd dive into footage. 593 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,400 You said we're leaning, leaning gradually into those new things. 594 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,120 I also, I'm going to go on a slight tangent now from what the 595 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,640 next question was going to be, because you've mentioned several 596 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,760 times about talking to customers and customer feedback. 597 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,240 And it's so important. We've been with our ad copy 598 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,840 especially and also with website copy, reading customer reviews 599 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,160 and and actually we did an exercise the other day using 600 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,200 ChatGPT. We said look at all the trust 601 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,120 party reviews for us and tally up what are the biggest topics 602 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,240 that come up again and again and again that are positive 603 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,560 sentiment towards the business. Everyone talk about free 604 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,240 delivery. We looked on the site wasn't one 605 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,920 of the top three USPS. You didn't you barely even found 606 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,120 out unless you open the delivery kind of accordion to see it in 607 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,560 there or when you reach the car. It was a lovely extra. 608 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,840 So like add to carts to and then to starting checkout was a big 609 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,640 drop off. Once you start checkout, it was 610 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:33,120 a really smooth journey through there, but it was like finding 611 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,560 out just basic things like that. Say you guys remember from last 612 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:38,720 time you send emails quite a lot to your customers, don't you? 613 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:40,920 And you also send out feedback surveys. 614 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,240 Talk us through that conversation that you're having 615 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,600 with customers constantly. Yeah. 616 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,160 So there are a lot of things that we do that I think because 617 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:55,160 it's so important to us and I think we're quite lucky that a 618 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,880 significant proportion of the team are not our target 619 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,520 audience. So I think it it kind of almost 620 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:07,120 forces us to use data rather than assumptions, which is a 621 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,640 good thing. So yeah, we have a formal 622 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,560 quarterly customer survey that goes out to everyone who's 623 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:14,480 bought from us in the last three months. 624 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,280 And that tends to be a combination of benchmarking 625 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,440 things. So we'll ask them, do they know 626 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,320 about our returns policy? You know, do they know about 627 00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:25,120 free delivery, you know, kind of all of those things. 628 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,440 So are we communicating those things? 629 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,160 We always ask them about new products. 630 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,800 What are they looking for in this new product? 631 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,840 What qualities do they need it to have? 632 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:37,960 How much are they willing to pay for it? 633 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,160 Are they interested in purchasing this kind of product 634 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,760 and what do they need to know about it before they decide to 635 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,080 buy? So we're not making any 636 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:51,760 expensive NPD mistakes because we're formulating the product in 637 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,080 the way that the customer wants it. 638 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:55,960 We know whether we can make it at a price that they're 639 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,120 interested in. That makes enough margin for us 640 00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:01,080 to be worthwhile. There's enough demand for it, 641 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,880 even what the launch campaign will look like, because we know 642 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,440 what objections we have to overcome. 643 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:11,120 So we ask them all that stuff. We have a, a private Facebook 644 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,360 Group, A community where our customers probably talk about 645 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:20,520 our product maybe like 2% of the time, 98% they're talking about 646 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,880 what's going on in their lives, their holidays, their 647 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,520 grandchildren. And we really get an insight 648 00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:31,640 into who they are beyond their transactional relationship with 649 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,640 us. We have the most amazing 650 00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,080 customer services team that when issues start coming up, they'll 651 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,640 be straight on and say, oh, there might be a problem with 652 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,240 this particular thing on the website or customers having this 653 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,720 issue with this product or you know, all of these things. 654 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,680 But the idea is we've got lots and lots of things going on at 655 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:55,480 the same time, and we use that data to make decisions. 656 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,640 Yeah, yeah. And I just, I've always been 657 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,560 really jealous of that conversation you have with 658 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,720 customers because I wish more of our clients and people we 659 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,440 weren't with had that. We find it so often that like we 660 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:09,280 spoiler alert for everyone listening. 661 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,480 I was going to do a big episode on this in like in a couple of 662 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,520 months. I'm about to go on paternity 663 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,960 leave everyone. So I'm going to be very tired 664 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,080 soon once I'm back. I was going to do an episode on 665 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,680 this. We're launching a basically a 666 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,800 CRO offering, but we're calling it, we're calling it Growth Lab 667 00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:24,520 because we don't believe it's about conversion rate, it's 668 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,280 about revenue and a whole range of other things. 669 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,080 One of the biggest things we've found with that though is the, 670 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,840 we've, we've slightly jokingly, we're offering three services 671 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:35,680 with it. And the first one, and this is 672 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,720 where there's a slight joke in it, is we say service 1 is free 673 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,200 and it's, you can keep doing things blind and do it without 674 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,360 the right data. And you'll probably take two 675 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,720 steps forward, one step back instead of three steps forward. 676 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,960 You can do that and that's free. And we can offer you that today. 677 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,240 There's not even a contract. You can just crack on and 678 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:53,880 there's no. And obviously I think we put on 679 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:55,240 it like there's no notice period on this. 680 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,360 You can keep doing this. But I love the conversation that 681 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,120 you're having with customers all the time so that you're not 682 00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,680 doing things blind. So you must still have the 683 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:05,160 nuances of customers. If you ask the wrong question, 684 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,240 you'll get the wrong answer. It's like, which would you love 685 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,440 it if we offer this kind of product? 686 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,159 Yeah, I would. And you, because you've, as you 687 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:12,520 said about objections, you don't realize actually it's too 688 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,280 expensive. The thing was massive. 689 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:15,520 That would last them like 3 years. 690 00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:17,760 And that's too big. So people that receive leaving 691 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:19,560 it, we're like, I'm never going to use all of that, just return 692 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,600 it and I'll buy a smaller 1. So I think going through all 693 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,040 those rejections and having that conversation and asking the 694 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,120 right questions, because you guys have done this so 695 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,000 frequently, you must have got so much experience in asking the 696 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:31,840 right questions to your customers and entertaining the 697 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:33,480 right, right kind of conversation. 698 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,159 Yeah, absolutely. I think there are certain things 699 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:40,400 particularly about why people do the things that they do and how 700 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,080 they behave. If you asked our customers how 701 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,239 frequently they think they buy from us, they would be wildly 702 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,199 incorrect, you know, So I think that's. 703 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:51,040 Hilarious. I think there's it's knowing 704 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,400 what you can ask and you're going to get a useful response 705 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,440 to and what you're not. And particularly with the NPD, 706 00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,560 you know, take it with a, we take it with a pinch of salt 707 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:04,240 that, you know, you could look at 2 products and you know, 80% 708 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:08,200 of, of customers can say they're interested in one and 85 or say 709 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,320 they're interested in the other. And those two will perform 710 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,800 wildly differently. But if only 5% of your customers 711 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,880 are interested, there is absolutely no point having that, 712 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,400 like even having that out the gate. 713 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,280 And there are things like when we were a couple of years ago, 714 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,800 one of the things our customers kept asking for was age spot 715 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,600 treatment. And when we asked about it, the 716 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:37,120 thing that they came back with and said was most important was 717 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,520 actual reviews and proof that it worked. 718 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:45,120 So because that was so important, we said this isn't 719 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:46,920 something we can just go into production with. 720 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,400 We need to produce a prototype and we need to trial it because 721 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:56,240 it all hinges on the reviews. And when we when we produced it, 722 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,840 it wasn't a huge amount. I think it was about 5% of the 723 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,680 people who trialled it had problems that essentially sort 724 00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:08,440 of slightly burnt their skin. And we said just there is no way 725 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:12,720 that we can launch this product with that level of side effects. 726 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:17,560 So all of this kind of taught us, we went, you know, kind of 727 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,480 quite far into that process. But because we knew what was 728 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,480 important to customers, it saved us from making what would have 729 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:24,960 been a much more expensive mistake. 730 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,200 Absolutely. And again, I think it's talking 731 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,160 about that conversation to find out what should we test in the 732 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,160 1st place. And when we did test it, this 733 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,240 was the outcome. And I, I guess to ask a really 734 00:36:35,240 --> 00:36:37,880 kind of direct question on that particular situation where it 735 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:40,560 was burning customer skin, How honest were you? 736 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:42,920 Then back to everybody to say, look, we've tried this, it 737 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:44,560 didn't work and actually we really care about you. 738 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,120 So we're not going to launch it or, and just fine, if you fine 739 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,320 if you don't want to answer this question. 740 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,120 But did you or did you just kind of keep it quiet and say we're 741 00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:51,720 not going? To talk no with with that one 742 00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,720 because particularly because we have our community and the 743 00:36:54,720 --> 00:36:58,200 testers were from our community. So we had publicly said, do you 744 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,000 want to join this test? What have you? 745 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:03,320 And then we did say, look, this isn't going ahead. 746 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,120 It didn't work. But it wasn't like, oh, an 747 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:08,640 announcement on our website or in our e-mail or, you know, 748 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:10,920 anythings like that. It was just the people who'd 749 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,360 been involved and particularly communicating directly to the 750 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,280 people who had been involved in the trial and been very happy 751 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,720 with the product being like, look, you know. 752 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,080 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Which it's got to be the best 753 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:25,160 way to go. And I think that's why 754 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,240 Trustpilot and things are so effective when you test them on 755 00:37:27,240 --> 00:37:30,600 conversion rates is people. People trust things that are 756 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:32,080 trustworthy, hence the name and Trustpilot. 757 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:36,080 And cool, last topic then that was a massive tangent we went 758 00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:37,520 on, which I think is really, really, really fruitful. 759 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,920 But last topic, you mentioned YouTube earlier and I've got it 760 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,920 in my notes. Most brands that have tried 761 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,320 YouTube, I'm going to take a punt and say have utterly 762 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,000 failed. It's not worked. 763 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,840 They've got some really, really good impressions and views and 764 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,080 stuff and people have kind of heard who they are. 765 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:54,800 They've dipped their toes in, not spent enough, not done 766 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,760 enough. Production looked slightly bad. 767 00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,640 And then five years later, an SEO person like us comes and 768 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:01,280 goes, what's all this on YouTube? 769 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,520 And they're like, oh, we tried that phone. 770 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:04,560 It's like, well, it's still there and you're linking to it 771 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,280 on your header of your homepage. You know, get rid of it. 772 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,520 You guys are quite effective on YouTube. 773 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,520 Talk me through the strategy of how you harness what is 774 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,400 seemingly someone just kind of enjoying their afternoon on 775 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,040 YouTube watching videos or looking for a solution to a 776 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:19,280 problem. And suddenly you're converting 777 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:22,400 that into a new customer and, and and kick starting that 778 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:23,800 conversation with a new customer as well. 779 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,480 Yeah. I mean, that has changed 780 00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:31,720 massively for us in, I would say probably the last year that 781 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:34,880 we've always and we've always said YouTube is important. 782 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:40,720 And I think particularly when I joined the company, one of the 783 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:45,040 things I did was I had a conversation with our like a 784 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,040 handful of our really high value customers and talk to them about 785 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,680 how did they discover us in the 1st place and all of those. 786 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,080 And they all said to me, YouTube videos were both a really 787 00:38:57,080 --> 00:39:00,320 crucial part in their decision to buy from us, but they 788 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,600 continue to be a crucial part of why they continue to buy from us 789 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,000 today. So from my point of view, I've 790 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:09,640 always said, look, the YouTube content is very important. 791 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:14,520 And it kind of just went along like that for a long time. 792 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:19,640 And yeah, then about a year ago, I actually listened to a really 793 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:23,440 interesting podcast with a woman called Louise Knight, and she 794 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,120 talked about the value of YouTube SEO. 795 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:29,600 And it was like, we've never thought about YouTube SEO. 796 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,760 We do all this stuff on YouTube. It's a big search engine, yeah. 797 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:38,480 And a, we've done a big project around YouTube SEO and thinking 798 00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,440 about SEO from a YouTube perspective. 799 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:47,880 But one of the other things that came out of it was that actually 800 00:39:48,520 --> 00:39:54,360 about 2/3 to 3/4 of our YouTube traffic comes from Google 801 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:57,560 search. So it's not search within 802 00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,800 YouTube, it's somebody. Searching. 803 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:04,360 For a problem in Google that then finds our YouTube video, 804 00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,520 which again really changed the way that we thought about 805 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:13,280 YouTube content and the other massively useful exercise that 806 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,480 we did last year. And again, it's like, you know, 807 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,280 I can't believe we never did this before. 808 00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:22,560 We looked and we got 2 lists. We got our highest performing 809 00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:25,680 landing pages and the content on those. 810 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,720 And we got our highest performing YouTube videos and we 811 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:32,840 cross checked those and the number of gaps that we had. 812 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:36,760 Or we've got this really successful landing page that 813 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,920 we've never made video content around that topic. 814 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,440 Or we've got this really use, we've got this really engaging 815 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,400 YouTube video that isn't on our website. 816 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,840 So like just cross checking those things has been a 817 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,480 massively useful exercise. And I think last year, we 818 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,920 actually, particularly on our website as part of this SEO 819 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,720 exercise, culled a lot of our content. 820 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:06,280 And so I think now our YouTube strategy is less about volume 821 00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:09,840 and much more about quality. It's like, where is the gap? 822 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,480 What is this video addressing that we have not talked about 823 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,400 before or not addressed adequately before or there's 824 00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,960 still a lot of demand for us to talk about in a different way 825 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,040 and then doing that rather than just let's make content. 826 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,320 It is I can you can see the fear in there like the owner or the 827 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,200 finance director's face. And it's like we're going to 828 00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,480 make some content. It's like, Oh no, like what an 829 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,800 expensive thing I'm going to have to like either pull the 830 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,440 plug on or just let it happen. But I think the, I love that 831 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:42,480 you're looking at those gaps because actually if you optimize 832 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,240 where you're ranking on on Google with a video, if you 833 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:47,160 optimizing content, you've now got 2 positions on Google and 834 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:48,800 they're going to two completely different domains. 835 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:51,120 But you're still the focus of attention, which is awesome. 836 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,840 I think I mentioned to you on one of our round tables, we did 837 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:56,760 as well about the promotions within YouTube. 838 00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,000 I don't know if you've been playing with those, but we've 839 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,480 had so much success with them both for podcasts, some of our 840 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,600 clients. It feels like Google free 841 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,960 shopping back in the day and it feels like it's not going to 842 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:08,600 last forever. So we're just trying to get as 843 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,880 many subscribers an e-mail subscribers as we possibly can 844 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,480 while it's working. But I certainly think YouTube is 845 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:15,840 obviously a very powerful platform and lots of people use 846 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,840 it. A friend of mine runs a Wacker 847 00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:20,440 plate hiring business. If anyone doesn't know what a 848 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,120 Wacker plate is, when you've got like stones loose on your drive, 849 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,240 you can use a Wacker plate and it basically shakes them all and 850 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,120 moves them down to make a flat surface. 851 00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:29,720 All quite fun. And he did a video about how to 852 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:31,520 put fuel because a lot of them run on petrol. 853 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:33,840 How to put fuel in a Wacker plate, how to use it and how to 854 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,960 store it safely. And if you want to hire one, 855 00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,000 check out our website. And he basically went viral 856 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,240 about two weeks later, which is, which is hilarious. 857 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,280 He's now got a business doing all kinds of hiring stuff. 858 00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,560 But another friend of mine also ironically made a Wacker plate 859 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:49,440 video a few days ago. And I keep telling him my friend 860 00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:52,840 Charles put it up on YouTube. Trust me, I've seen this before. 861 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:56,040 This is really powerful. But I think you guys as well 862 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,320 like make up tutorials and stuff and you know how to apply 863 00:42:59,320 --> 00:43:02,440 foundation when you're in your 50s or your 60s or, or as you 864 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,840 say, oh, you're in your 30s. I think it's a really, really 865 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:09,040 powerful piece of content. I said last question, very, very 866 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,160 last question, Janice, because I can't let a guest leave without 867 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,760 asking this and it's been amazing having you on. 868 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,000 Lots of people will be like Janice. 869 00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,160 You sound like an absolute legend and a guru of 870 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,880 information, which which she is. Guys, how can people reach out 871 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,280 to you? How can they follow, look 872 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,120 fabulous forever? How can they find you, get in 873 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,960 touch, etcetera? Yeah, best place to find me is 874 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,600 on LinkedIn. Janice Thomas. 875 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,560 I'm always on there, always talking about something. 876 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,800 You are obviously in your community, you know, really you 877 00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,080 know, and look fabulous forever. We are lookfabulousforever.com 878 00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:40,240 and you can find us on YouTube as well. 879 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:42,560 Amazing. Well, thank you so much, Janice. 880 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,440 I really appreciate your time. And on a Friday afternoon in the 881 00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,080 sun as well when you could be outside. 882 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:47,240 So yeah, I really appreciate your time. 883 00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:53,120 Thank you so much for joining. US.