1 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,200 In 2025, ignore your desktop traffic. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,280 Where's that money coming from? That sounds like a you problem. 3 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:10,400 This is an e-commerce guy telling you e-commerce 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,240 conversion rate is garbage. I I imagine Shopify still like 5 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:15,600 an onion. I like the Shrek reference just 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,440 now. Exactly. 7 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:19,760 The number one question that you should always ask is why? 8 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:21,600 And there's a reason there's no hair on my head. 9 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,280 This is not by design. I'm not Dwayne Johnson, you 10 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:27,600 know. Our partners at Saguna have 11 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,840 released a brand new app for Shopify and it's called Shopify 12 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,560 Connect 4 Canva. You can essentially look at all 13 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,600 of your product images from Shopify directly in Canva and 14 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,880 export them straight back. This can save you a lot of time. 15 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,160 If you want to find out a bit more about this or go and find 16 00:00:42,160 --> 00:00:45,800 the app yourself, you can go to saguna.com/canva. 17 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:52,760 Enjoy hello and welcome to another episode of winning with 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:55,080 Shopify podcast. It's great to have you guys 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:56,840 tuning in and I thought I was just going to have a very little 20 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:58,520 chat before we jump into today's episode. 21 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,560 Something that I meant to flag when we started recording, but 22 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:04,560 we got straight into the detail and my amazing guests, Sabir and 23 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,200 myself. Sabir is running this incredible 24 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:08,400 program. You're going to hear quite a lot 25 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:10,840 about it today and I highly recommend that if you are a 26 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:14,240 Shopify brand that has hit a revenue shelf and just cannot 27 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:16,720 burst through it, there are probably multiple things you 28 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,920 need to fix in your warehouse, your marketing and a whole range 29 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:22,160 of other places as well. He the most incredible program 30 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,720 and they are doing a specific offer just for winning with 31 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,280 Shopify listeners. So if you want to get in touch 32 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:29,000 with them, the first conversation is free. 33 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,120 They'll probably give you some free advice on that conversation 34 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:32,600 as well. But make sure you talk about 35 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:35,480 winning with Shopify and say that we sent you because you'll 36 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,360 get a few exclusives just through us. 37 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:38,960 So if you want to sign up for that, I've got a link here, 38 00:01:38,960 --> 00:01:42,200 which is growthbysevere.com/winning. 39 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:45,240 So that's growth by severe, which is spelled S A/B 40 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:48,680 ir.com/winning. Today's episode is not to be 41 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:50,800 missed. Severe is an absolute legend of 42 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:52,840 e-commerce and I do not say that lightly. 43 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:54,920 He's got way more experience than I do. 44 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:56,960 He's worked on way more brands than I have, and he runs the 45 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,280 most incredible program, as I've said. 46 00:01:58,280 --> 00:01:59,360 So I hope you enjoyed today's episode. 47 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,680 Definitely check out his program, and I hope you can hit 48 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:03,920 the subscribe button as well at some point during today. 49 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,520 Enjoy. Sabir, welcome back to the show. 50 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:09,560 How are you? Man it's so exciting to be here 51 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:13,080 on winning with Shopify. You and I jammed last time and 52 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,040 we covered so much, you know, it was a while ago, but I have 53 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,840 exciting, exciting updates from 2024 results of our program and 54 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:26,240 how we helped these Shopify businesses grow there 55 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,840 incrementally. Are you ready for it? 56 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,440 You want to hear the number or you want to. 57 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:31,600 You want to build a? Suspense. 58 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,400 Before we do that, I'm ready. But our listeners might be like, 59 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:37,080 Sabir, I've never heard of you. Tell us a little bit about 60 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:40,720 yourself, the program and then. But these stats are insane guys. 61 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,360 You want to hear how much growth? 62 00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:44,160 And also these are averages as well. 63 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,080 But Sabir, tell us a bit about your background first, then 64 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,160 we'll dive straight into that. So an OG in the E Comm space, 65 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,640 you know, I've been I've been at it growing revenue for the past 66 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:57,960 25 years. In 2016 I even Co founded Vayner 67 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,080 commerce with Gary Vee. Gary Vaynerchuk, right, worked 68 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,240 with sharks on Shark Tank, especially Matt Higgins. 69 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,240 He's you know, he's a recurring shark on Shark Tank in the US, 70 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,960 you know, and and a lot of VC companies, founders and so on. 71 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,880 So that is just over time I as I was iterating, you know, I'm 72 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:21,360 finding that framework that would actually help companies 73 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,160 grow very rapidly, but not as a tactic, but compounded growth 74 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:28,840 over time. So that the stuff that you work 75 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,840 on, the sweat equity you put into, to growing things and the 76 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,120 money equity you put into paid ads and stuff like that, we 77 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,400 don't want to give that back. We want to keep on growing it 78 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,320 and building on top of it. So what you started on January 79 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:45,320 1st should still be applicable on December 31st, but compounded 80 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:49,440 over time and scaled also. So that's what I've done over 81 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,880 past 25 years. I've results from 2024 also, 82 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:56,960 right. So my, my superpower is 83 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,920 e-commerce growth and especially right now with the current 84 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,080 program I have, I'm laser focused on B to C businesses, D 85 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,880 to C businesses, direct to consumer businesses on Shopify, 86 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:11,080 right? We have fuel people that are on, 87 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,160 on other platforms, but I would say 90% of them are on Shopify 88 00:04:16,079 --> 00:04:20,600 and to help them actually build a company that not only grows on 89 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,280 a top line. So even that ridiculous number 90 00:04:23,280 --> 00:04:26,600 that I shared with you, right, is not just a top line number, 91 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,360 it's a bottom line net, the net cash flow growth, because 92 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,720 remember, your cash flow fuels your future. 93 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,160 And if you, if you keep on, you know, you know, getting results 94 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,080 like row as of 1 and and you think that's OK, it's not OK 95 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,040 because you're robbing your from the future. 96 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,320 Yeah, absolutely. And I mean as, as someone who's 97 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,520 a fellow performance marketeer, like if we're getting 1 to one 98 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,720 row, as it's the first thing we're screaming at clients being 99 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:54,120 like this isn't good enough. We need to find what's wrong. 100 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:55,600 Is it product? Is it brand? 101 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:56,840 Is it the way the campaigns are set up? 102 00:04:56,840 --> 00:04:59,760 Is it our bidding models? I'll give you I'll give you the 103 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,000 answer during this show. I'll give you the answer exactly 104 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:04,960 what the reason is to start with. 105 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,120 There are many reasons, but you want to always get to the root 106 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,200 of the problem. Once you kill the root of the 107 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,600 problem, then there you go, you unlock a tremendous amount of 108 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,600 growth. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. 109 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,000 Give us the stats a beer. How much did your brands grow on 110 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:20,720 average last year through your program? 111 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,600 So the average this is 2024 results. 112 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,080 So people can't say, oh, that was 10 years ago, It's not. 113 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,640 It was two a month ago. It's not even less than a month 114 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,800 ago. Basically full year result, 108% 115 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:40,920 increase in revenue top line and also the we, we improved gross 116 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,400 margin and net cash flow on, on the bottom line. 117 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,920 One of our star clients, I, I'll, I'll give you the example 118 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,280 so that we can actually walk through it even is Oram 119 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,800 Brothers. It's a Netherlands based men's 120 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,120 jewelry brand. So think about how niche that 121 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,280 is. You know, they sell bracelets to 122 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,840 men who, who, who like wearing bracelets. 123 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,240 You know, they also have necklaces and rings and stuff, 124 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,120 but their primary product is, is bracelets. 125 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,160 You know, they were stuck at $1.5 million for four years. 126 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,640 And what happened? They kept on just like a lot of 127 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,240 the entrepreneurs who are listening to this show, right? 128 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:19,920 What, what you do is you put money towards it, right? 129 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,160 You know what I need to, I need to spend more money on Meta ads, 130 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,400 Google ads, you know, SEO and this and that, right? 131 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,760 So people are doing the right thing in their heads. 132 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:31,680 They're, they're putting money in, but it's, there was no 133 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,440 results for Aaron Brothers, right? 134 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,120 That meant business loans that had to be paid off, but they 135 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:38,920 didn't have good cash flow, right? 136 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:42,480 They, you know, unfortunately they ran up several of their 137 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,000 credit cards also during this process. 138 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,000 So what they came to us last year, beginning of last year 139 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,440 and, and we actually worked with them, they partnered up with us, 140 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:58,680 we worked with them and within the first six weeks it was 112% 141 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,920 improvement on their revenue, right? 142 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,640 In the first six weeks of, of fixing things, they go like, Oh 143 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,880 my God, this is what we needed to do. 144 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,960 And it required, I would say more elbow grease than putting 145 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,280 money up. In fact, we cut down on a lot of 146 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:14,840 things that we said, OK, you know what, we will come back to 147 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,000 it. You don't need to spend that 148 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,600 money right now. We need to fix the foundation 149 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,560 1st. And when once we started doing 150 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,760 that and we iterated Monday through Friday, Monday through 151 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,400 Friday every single week starting in January, right? 152 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:34,600 September 9, I remember September 9, 2024, 1:00 PM this 153 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:39,600 are past all of their 2023 revenue, total revenue, all of 154 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,840 it and net sales, net sales. So I'm not even looking at gross 155 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,240 sales or anything that includes returns. 156 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:53,160 So net sales this are past it September 9 at 1:00 PM and 157 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,640 everything at one O 1:00 PM onwards that think about it how 158 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,600 insane that is. All of Q4 was our growth, pure 159 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,560 growth, every penny. But more important than that, we 160 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,880 also rationalize their product catalog, clean stuff up, we 161 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,640 remove things that didn't make sense anymore. 162 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,640 So operationally they became more efficient also, right. 163 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:19,920 This is why the program that I have is called the 8D method. 8D 164 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:22,560 stands for 8 dimensions of e-commerce. 165 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,000 It's not just about Shopify, Clavio, meta ads, you know, 166 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,320 that's, that's the three things that most Shopify people repeat 167 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,559 on, on, on like a broken record. They think that that's the 168 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,559 answer. The thing is, it's not. 169 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:36,480 It's 8 dimensions of your business. 170 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:40,200 If you don't optimize each one of those dimensions, what 171 00:08:40,200 --> 00:08:44,280 happens is like, let's say you know, they hire you, you're 172 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,720 phenomenal, Nick at what you do, right? 173 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,160 You, they hire you, you deliver the amazing row as everything is 174 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,880 great, right? That this hypothetical client on 175 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,200 the back end, they screw up logistics, meaning order 176 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,480 fulfillment. They want to go cheap on on you 177 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,240 know, economy shipping or something. 178 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:06,040 You are delivering A5 row as on the front end and you going 179 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,280 like, Oh my God, this is gangbusters. 180 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:13,440 And on the back of it cancelled orders, returns of bad customer 181 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:15,920 review and eventually that catches up. 182 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,000 The logistics catches up. The issues with the logistics 183 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,200 catches up. What happens to your row as you 184 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,840 are doing a great job, that row S is going to go from 5:00 to a 185 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:29,960 3.5 to 1.7. You're barely making a one and 186 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,520 it has nothing to do with your skill set, Nick, as an agency to 187 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:35,520 do that. It has to do with the fact that 188 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:39,200 there's something else broken. This is why in the AD method, we 189 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,760 actually look at 8 dimensions and it's prioritized and 190 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,440 incrementally. First, we look at the 191 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,240 performance optimization. That's dimension 1. 192 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:49,960 Dimension 2 through 5 is considered marketing and 193 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,400 merchandising. That includes, by the way, 194 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,280 pricing and and this is where the heart starts beating like 195 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,280 this because they are so consumed. 196 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,560 You know, the entrepreneurs are so used to couponing to that, 197 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,720 right? I come along, I go like, no, 198 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,040 you're not going to do coupon. Why are you giving coupons away? 199 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,800 What do you know that you're, you're robbing yourself from 200 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:13,640 your product margin on top of it all, we're going to get free 201 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:15,920 shipping also. Where is that money coming from? 202 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,320 It's insane. Like so that's the marketing and 203 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:23,440 merchandising, you know, dimensions in the middle. 204 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:27,520 And then we look at operations. So that's tech, logistics and 205 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,600 you know, team. So those are the operational 206 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:32,960 things. And, but all of them 207 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:37,000 collectively, as they go through the program, they implement 208 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,960 these things immediately from the first month when we are 209 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,680 doing this performance optimization, they, they hit the 210 00:10:43,680 --> 00:10:46,000 ground running with growth. And for a lot of them, it's a 211 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,960 breath of fresh air because quite a lot of companies come to 212 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,800 us where if you compare their 2023 to 2024, it was a negative 213 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,360 trend, meaning month over month, year over year, they were, they 214 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,080 were on a decline in that business. 215 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:01,400 And you've heard this from your clients also that we're on a 216 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,560 decline. We're trying to turn the ship 217 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:05,840 around. And then, you know, they are 218 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,120 part of the program, the business starts growing again, 219 00:11:08,680 --> 00:11:10,440 right? And, and, and then not only 220 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,400 growing, but growing profitably. And as they go through the 221 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:17,200 program, they continue, we are building that that momentum 222 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,000 because remember, it's compounded growth. 223 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:22,440 It's not a one off here we go. Just change this creative. 224 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:23,920 You're going to get so many clicks, you know? 225 00:11:23,960 --> 00:11:26,040 I think I think one of the biggest things we see as well, 226 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:28,120 and you said it really politely, I think. 227 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:30,760 And we obviously behind closed doors use slightly more fruitful 228 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,600 language when it's like we've just got, we finally got a best 229 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:34,920 seller. We've got something that sells 230 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,080 at 15 to one row as we're absolutely flying this thing out 231 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,320 the door. And I, I've had probably, I can 232 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,840 think of like at least five, maybe 10 scenarios where we're 233 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:44,680 doing that. And someone like there's 234 00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:47,040 normally the finance directors like we can't afford to ship the 235 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,840 item. It's too heavy and we offer free 236 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:51,120 delivery. We can only ship this item if we 237 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:53,880 sell it with like two or three other things to bump up the 238 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:57,040 margin to cover the delivery. And, and I, and we with this 239 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,200 slightly jokey phrase in our agency, we never say it's the 240 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:00,920 clients. And so please don't ever quote 241 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:04,000 me on this any of our listeners, but and we can't say that sounds 242 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,080 like a you problem. Like we're doing our bit and 243 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,160 we're, we're finding though that we're getting so much more 244 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:12,240 involved in like I, I imagine the Shopify store like an onion 245 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,600 and the outside of the onion as you described, that's, that's 246 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:17,000 that those marketing dimensions you guys work on and it's all 247 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,400 the customer acquisition if you take a layer. 248 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,200 Back I like the Shrek reference just now it's exactly. 249 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:23,800 Shrek. It is Shrek with donkey. 250 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:27,800 He's like, I'm like an onion. So you take that layer 1 and 251 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,880 under layer 1 you then find that OK, there's CRO, there's what 252 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,720 are we offering, are people wanting to buy, etcetera. 253 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,640 The next layer is exactly what you've just described is for 254 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,000 people to buy our products. There's this big circle that 255 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:39,600 happens. We need people to buy our 256 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,360 products. So maybe we do need to discount 257 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:43,160 the stuff just to get started, get some people in. 258 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,160 Then we need reviews and user generated content, people 259 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:49,160 talking about our products. We need feedback on our products 260 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:50,520 and our marketing and our emails. 261 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,000 We need to improve all those things. 262 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,600 And then you kind of wait your way back around the wheel and 263 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,160 the next set of customers that come in, there's user generated 264 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:57,880 great content, there's reviews on site. 265 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,080 The product imagery is that's me or that's who I want to be, you 266 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,240 know, holding that water bottle on a mountain. 267 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:05,520 That's the water bottle for me. I'm going to go and buy it. 268 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:09,080 And I think exactly as you've described, it's so much easier 269 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,800 for us as an agency to come in when people have actually taken 270 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,680 a step back and looked at that full business, you know, kind of 271 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:18,120 business profile. It's hard, isn't it because you 272 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,360 can't always, it'd be good to get your thoughts on this. 273 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:24,760 You can't always put a number on things like reviews on page that 274 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:27,720 delivery. E-mail or text message I have. 275 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,240 I actually I'm a very data oriented person. 276 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,560 To me the truth is whatever the data is telling me and data 277 00:13:34,560 --> 00:13:36,000 comes from many different sources. 278 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,480 One of the problems for a lot of entrepreneurs is that I'll tell 279 00:13:39,480 --> 00:13:41,640 you what, it's a behavioral problem, right? 280 00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:45,600 Oh, I have data in Shopify. I have data in Clavio. 281 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,600 I have data in Google ads, meta ads, and maybe you're fancy and 282 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:53,000 you use ad beacon and you use Google Analytics and stuff like 283 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:54,480 that. I do you have the data? 284 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,520 Yes, I have the data. It's over there, right? 285 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:01,920 Nobody, nobody, nobody pulls that data into one universal 286 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,320 place. So like on a regular basis, 287 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,960 e-commerce does not run on a monthly basis. 288 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,560 It runs on an hourly and daily basis. 289 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,920 And then you need to summarize on a weekly basis what's 290 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:13,600 happening with your business, right? 291 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:17,320 Remember Deep Sea came out with the AI, right? 292 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,840 I mean, this is not related directly with e-commerce. 293 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,720 Deep Sea came out, came out. What happened to the markets in 294 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:27,280 the US? You're right, 10% tanking of of 295 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,280 tech companies because of that, right? 296 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,640 So things change in tech and especially in e-commerce, things 297 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,520 change very rapidly, right? You need to be on top of your 298 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,080 business and see what's going on on a daily basis. 299 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,560 Maybe you're giving it a cursory look, but on a weekly basis, you 300 00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:46,960 really need to know what happened last Monday through 301 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,480 Sunday, right? You want to know that week and 302 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,000 see what's happening with it, and you need to do I tell you. 303 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,280 I tell you, one of the biggest problems I think with data as 304 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,320 well is whether it's in the separate systems and you're not 305 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,160 looking at it or you bring it, or even if you bring it all 306 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,480 together and you're looking at it or you're not looking at it. 307 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,760 The biggest issue I find, I'd love to get your thoughts on 308 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:08,720 this is I feel that a lot of brands that like, like the guys 309 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,400 in the Netherlands, they've reached one 1.5 million in a 310 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:13,200 year. There's a shelf somewhere 311 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:15,320 between 1:00 and 2:00 million. I'm convinced of it where people 312 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:18,400 can't burst through it. They've got the data, they look 313 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:22,040 at it, they analyse it, but they struggle to know what decisions 314 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:23,840 now to make, what to do differently. 315 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:26,160 Like even if a product's trending this week, all right, 316 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:28,600 put the budgets up and it's like, no, that's such a binary 317 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,880 way of looking at it. So how do you guys go about then 318 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,280 using that data to make changes to impact something to make a 319 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,320 difference? So here's the thing you have to 320 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,640 know. You have to know what the what 321 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,960 the data means, right? I'll give you an example, right? 322 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,240 Everyone in e-commerce obsesses about the conversion rate, 323 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,200 right? That's one of the OG KPI's that 324 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,160 from day 0 till now, even today, right? 325 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:58,960 Even after this podcast, you're going to hear about conversion 326 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,880 rate, right? The problem with conversion rate 327 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,720 is it's not the right KPI, right? 328 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,160 It's not the right KPI. And let me explain what that 329 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,640 means and I'll come back to understanding broader question 330 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,960 of data, understanding the data insights when you're looking at 331 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:19,120 this data, right? I'm going to cover that too. 332 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:22,280 When you look at something like conversion rate that everybody 333 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,880 obsesses, I mean, it's conversion rate and it's row as 334 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,640 if you know barely anything about e-commerce. 335 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,560 You know that those are the two things. 336 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,240 And I'm telling you today with 25 years of experience, with $1 337 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:36,360 billion in incremental e-commerce revenue, a lot of 338 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,880 experience, right, Conversion rate is the wrong KPI, right? 339 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:42,240 This is an e-commerce guy telling you e-commerce 340 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,080 conversion rate is garbage, right? 341 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,400 And I'll give you a very crude example, right? 342 00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:52,000 You enter a room, right? A hypothetical room this the 343 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:56,760 right side of the room has fifty NBA basketball players from the 344 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,760 US, right, very tall people, right? 345 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,960 And the other half are the dwarfs from Lord of the Rings, 346 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,160 the other 50 legends. I say, Nick, based on this data, 347 00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:09,040 tell me the average height of the room. 348 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,160 You'll come back and say 5 foot 7 inches. 349 00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,760 Then my follow up question, how many 5 foot 7 inch people do you 350 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:18,280 have in there? 0. 351 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,400 The answer is 0. Conversion rate gives you that 352 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,160 sort of garbage information. It doesn't give you any 353 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:26,880 information. Nothing useful there. 354 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,120 In fact, in my case, in my program I've replaced that and 355 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,760 I've done this for many years now. 356 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,480 The term is session value, right? 357 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,840 And what is a session value? A session value is, if you want 358 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,960 to look at broad your entire website for a time period, let's 359 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,960 say December 1 through December 31, 2024, that just ended, 360 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:48,000 right? We're recording this at the end 361 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,040 of January right now, right? So that time period you look at 362 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:56,680 the total revenue, net sales or gross sales, however you want to 363 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,520 look at it, you take that number, you divide it by the 364 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:03,960 number of total sessions you had for your site and that gives you 365 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,040 a global session value for your site. 366 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:10,680 That that dollar value, that pound sterling, that euro value 367 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,800 that you see, right? It tells you the productivity of 368 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:18,360 the sessions you bring in this whole mixed bag of e-mail 369 00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:23,040 marketing, SEO, paid ads from Google ads and Meta ads and 370 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:25,960 affiliate marketing and influencer marketing, all of it, 371 00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:29,120 right? Your own branding it all that 372 00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:31,400 mix tells you what the session value is. 373 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,720 So if you want to increase your business as is, you know, 374 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,800 there's an art and science to touching different channels. 375 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,440 But if you if you do the same thing or similar thing, if there 376 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:45,280 might be some reduction in the quality of the productivity that 377 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:48,920 that dollar amount, like dollar 27 per session, right? 378 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,120 That's how much revenue you collect for every session that 379 00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,520 shows up to your site. Right now, what I would do is 380 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,400 that's my global index, that's my number for my site. 381 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,880 Then I look at meta ads, I look at outbound clicks. 382 00:19:00,880 --> 00:19:03,720 That's the, the number of sessions or equivalent of 383 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:06,800 sessions that they sent to me outbound clicks from meta ads. 384 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:11,360 And I look at what, what meta reports as attributed revenue, 385 00:19:11,440 --> 00:19:13,760 right? We know it's a mixed bag, but 386 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,880 that let's say, let's say that, let's say cuz they always over 387 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:19,680 report. By the way, Meta ads always over 388 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,200 reports Google ads because of lawsuits over the past almost 389 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,680 2530 years. They under report attribution, 390 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,160 right? So what Google ads tells you on 391 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,800 their site on on their admin portal, what your RO ads is for 392 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:38,000 a campaign, it's usually off by 30%, thirty to 40% in case of 393 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,320 Meta ads, they way over reported by multiples, right? 394 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,480 That's how, how bad the data is. So, but if you look at that 395 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,640 number and you divide the revenue from Meta, what is 396 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,840 reporting as attributed revenue divided by outbound clicks, it 397 00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:54,400 will give you the productivity of the revenue for you to 398 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,720 generate. If you were to increase your 399 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,920 budget on Meta ads and deliver more traffic similar to modeled 400 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:06,000 after AI advantage plus whatever right, it will generate more 401 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,640 revenue similar to that. AD right, similar to it, not 402 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,800 exactly, but similar. We will talk about attribution a 403 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,080 little bit later, right? With Google ads, you will look 404 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,840 at the same thing right when you are when you're looking at this, 405 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,800 this is where you you know, you talked about where do you pull 406 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:24,960 the lever, right? When you're looking at the data, 407 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,200 where do you see like what am I seeing? 408 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,840 It's very clear with session value for me, right? 409 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,680 If I see that cost per click or cost per session on Google, 410 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:38,760 let's say it's $1.50, right? But it generates revenue per 411 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,960 session. It generates, let's say 7 bucks, 412 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,480 right? And then compared to that on, on 413 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,760 the Meta ad side, it costs $0.50 to to get that, get the traffic. 414 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:54,000 However, it generates revenue per session, maybe $2.00 or $3. 415 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,880 Where do you put your money between in that in this 416 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:59,920 hypothetical scenario? It means that what you're doing 417 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,800 is you're over investing in Meta ads and you're under investing 418 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,120 and you're choking a channel that could actually generate a 419 00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:08,880 lot more traffic. Let's say even that $7.00 420 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:11,440 revenue per session comes down to $5. 421 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,120 It's still is beating even you have that inefficiency in Google 422 00:21:16,120 --> 00:21:18,280 Ads. It's still is beating Meta ads 423 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,320 in in a bigger picture. Yeah, yeah, we, I mean, we work 424 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,720 in paid advertising. We we do a bit of work on Meta, 425 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:25,360 but we're much more sold into Google. 426 00:21:25,360 --> 00:21:27,680 And and also Bing is a really good growing platform at the 427 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,200 moment. If you're running stuff on 428 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,440 Google guys, and you're hitting a bit of a shelf with it and 429 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:34,320 can't grow it enough, try Bing. Like there's a, it's not as big, 430 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:35,600 but there's a good audience on there. 431 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:38,160 What we find, what I find with Google is if you take a step 432 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:39,840 back from all there, and I think we should talk about 433 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:41,520 attribution. You're one of the few people 434 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,560 that is dared to go there with me just because it's so 435 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:46,200 complicated. Brands don't want to talk about 436 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:47,440 it. And well, they want the answer, 437 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:49,240 but they don't want to discuss it because no one knows what to 438 00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:50,960 do. But certainly with Google, if 439 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:52,880 you take a step back, people are looking for stuff. 440 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,160 I'm looking to buy, You know, I'm a man, so I'm put in men's. 441 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,640 I'm looking to buy a bracelet. So I'm going to put bracelet. 442 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,480 And I'm looking for this colour, this material, this size, 443 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,800 whatever it might be. And you've got that product. 444 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,200 I'm already looking for it. The hard work's done. 445 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,520 It's between you and the others now, which is where conversion 446 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,480 rate optimization, I know we say about conversion rate, even on 447 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,720 conversion rate optimization tests, I completely agree with 448 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,720 you. We use CPV, which is so RPV, 449 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,520 which is revenue per visitor. It's very similar. 450 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,120 Yeah, yeah. But we, we tend to use that 451 00:22:22,120 --> 00:22:25,000 because we then literally, as you say, we attribute that back 452 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,840 to our click cost on Google and say, right, Google's charging me 453 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,120 a dollar for a click, but I'm averaging $2.00 per person that 454 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,240 comes in. And then the next question to 455 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,040 the client is going to be how much do you make after you get a 456 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,280 customer? What's your lifetime value? 457 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,600 Because if you get 3 orders per customer, it's six to one ROI. 458 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,800 Now that's scalable. That's absolutely scalable. 459 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,440 I'll give you some sad news. I'll give you some sad news 460 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,760 based on what you just said about life cycle marketing, 461 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,320 right? The sad news is, and this is 462 00:22:51,440 --> 00:22:54,720 across, I have access to every data basically, you know, when, 463 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,400 when clients work with us, right? 464 00:22:57,120 --> 00:23:00,040 And what we find is, and this is something that every, every 465 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,040 listener of yours on Shopify can do. 466 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,800 And if you use something else, if you have a segmentation 467 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,120 software, you can, you can do that too, right? 468 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,800 Look for customers, look at your customer universe. 469 00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,760 So people who have at least placed one order, right? 470 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:15,760 That gives you total customers, right? 471 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:19,600 They made one purchase. Isolate any kind of free trials 472 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,080 or samples or whatever. Those are not customers. 473 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,600 Those are qualified prospects, right? 474 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,520 They're not customers. The customers who have actually 475 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,920 given you average order, something like that, right? 476 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,120 50 dollars, $65, whatever, whatever your average order is, 477 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:35,600 look at that total number, right? 478 00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:38,920 And then the next segment that you're going to define in 479 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,040 Shopify, you can do it. It's pretty simple, right? 480 00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,880 Number of orders placed in their lifetime equal to 1, equal to 481 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,600 one, right? I call this segment one hit 482 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,560 wonders, mumbo #5 Macarena, Gangnam Style. 483 00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,320 You know those songs, right? There are one hit wonders, 484 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,720 right? There are customers in your 485 00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:01,480 database. There are one hit wonders and 486 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,760 these one hit wonders when you look at it. 487 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:08,280 And I'm giving you averages now across many different product 488 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,400 categories, including replenishable products where 489 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,520 you're selling vitamins, they run out. 490 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,960 They should come back and buy vitamins 25 days from now, 491 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,080 right? So there are businesses like 492 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,400 that. I've I've removed people who buy 493 00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,120 a refrigerator or they buy a car tires. 494 00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:29,520 So I removed those categories for mall Shopify businesses. 495 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:33,840 This is the sad, sad news, and it's good to brave sad news 496 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,120 because you can. Once you acknowledge this, the 497 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:39,480 news exists, the bad news exists, then you can work on it 498 00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:40,960 and you can turn your business around. 499 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,000 Do you ever find that in your warehouse you have dead stock, 500 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,000 You can't sell it, no one wants to buy it, and you can't get a 501 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,800 refund on it. Or alternatively, you're missing 502 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,720 inventory in your warehouse that you need, you've got sales 503 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,480 coming in and you're low on stock and you haven't ordered 504 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,680 more stock. In time, all these things hit 505 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:56,840 profit. And I've been there. 506 00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,480 I've run my own Shopify store and had exactly that problem. 507 00:24:59,800 --> 00:25:01,600 We've partnered up with Inventory Planner who have the 508 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:05,200 most incredible app to help you manage that and forecast exactly 509 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,520 what products, what skews even down to what colour of product 510 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,600 you need to order in advance to make sure stock levels remain 511 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,360 consistent throughout. They're also running a seven day 512 00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:16,440 boot camp and if you want to go and sign up to that, it's 7 513 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,200 emails every seven days and it takes the same amount of time as 514 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:21,760 your morning coffee. And in seven days, like me, you 515 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:23,560 can become an inventory management pro. 516 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:25,640 Both links are in the description. 517 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,440 Enjoy. For most businesses more than 518 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:34,480 70% of their customer database, People who actually buy more 519 00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,880 than 70% of that database is one hit wonders. 520 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,640 Yep, they bought 1 transaction not. 521 00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:42,440 Shocked at all? Yeah. 522 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,880 Yeah. They did not shop a second time. 523 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,240 They dated you once. They went out to coffee with 524 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,280 you. That was it. 525 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,080 There was no second date. That's. 526 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,040 Exactly. Right there. 527 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Was a sitting analogy. There is no marriage there. 528 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,800 There is no. If you start using later terms 529 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,640 like customer loyalty doesn't exist, you know, there's no 530 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,320 customer loyalty. It was just a coffee date, you 531 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,520 know? So I guess, I mean, this is the 532 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,800 billion dollar question, right? And we, we have this so often 533 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:10,840 with our clients. How do you get people to buy 534 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,640 again? What are the core principles 535 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,520 that a business needs to follow to get someone to purchase more 536 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,840 than once on the basis that if they purchase twice, the 2nd 537 00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,520 order is not going to cost your credit card like you guys in the 538 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,920 Netherlands, they're not going to run up credit card debts with 539 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,680 Meta and Google in the same way are they say, how do you get 540 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:30,520 someone to buy more than once? What are those principles? 541 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,560 And I use the word principles. Not the best e-mail because it's 542 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,360 more complicated than that. Yep, it is. 543 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,920 First, it has nothing to do with the medium. 544 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,680 It's not e-mail, it's not SMS, it's not Facebook, Google, 545 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,920 retargeting. All those are mechanisms, right? 546 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,520 Those are mediums for you to do your communication, right? 547 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,240 So you have to remove that from your head, right? 548 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:51,640 Because most people, as soon as you say that, well, oh, we do 549 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720 retargeting campaigns, that's the retort, You know, that's the 550 00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,520 retort they give you, right? They tell you, oh, we do 551 00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,880 retargeting campaigns. Right, you're paying more money 552 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,600 to Google for the same thing you've already paid. 553 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:05,840 For either Clavio on Clavio e-mail or SMS. The thing is 554 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:07,480 that's medium. You're giving me a medium 555 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,760 answer, right? You're not telling me, you're 556 00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,600 telling me the mechanism of how you do it. 557 00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:15,480 You don't, you don't know why you're doing it right in the 558 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,840 English language or any global language. 559 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,280 The number one question that you should always ask is why? 560 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,000 Why is this happening to my business? 561 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,480 What is, what is going on in the data that's causing this kind of 562 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,880 an issue, right? What I just said to you with 563 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:33,680 segmentation, you have to measure on a monthly basis, you 564 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,040 have to measure your RFM score recency. 565 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,200 There should be a block of, you know, segments, frequency block 566 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,760 of segments and then monetary value block of segments. 567 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,960 And if you are really advanced beyond that, you should add 568 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:52,560 profitability also to see the profitability segments of your 569 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,960 customers also. But that's an advanced skill. 570 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:57,320 Let's stick with just RFM for now, right? 571 00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:01,240 When you measure this, you'll you start seeing a pattern that 572 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,600 you are acquiring new customers and most of them fall into one, 573 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,240 one hit wonders. You know the frequency of one. 574 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,040 But The thing is, it's not like, oh, they didn't have time to 575 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,760 mature, meaning that they just bought, they're not going to buy 576 00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,560 for 30 days. OK, all right, let's do a 577 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:21,280 recency on the one hit wonders. Just the one hit wonders I want 578 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:24,680 to look at these are the people zero months ago, one month ago, 579 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,520 two months ago, three months ago, four to six months ago, 6 580 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:31,360 to 12 months ago and so on. When you look at that slice of 581 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:34,520 data, it will become transparent that you have a transactional 582 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,080 business. You have never done life cycle 583 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:39,560 marketing. You never looked at your RFM 584 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,480 score. Probably you didn't even know 585 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:43,680 there was such a thing as an RFM, right? 586 00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,120 You know because knowledge is a thing, right? 587 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,920 That maybe they're just lacking it. 588 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:51,400 They just don't know, right? When, when you said that if 589 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,760 you're staring all this at this data, what, what is, you know, 590 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,240 how do you know where to hit the hammer, right? 591 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:03,000 I don't see that many or any librarians driving Lamborghinis. 592 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,840 They have access to all this knowledge in a library all the 593 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,360 time. You know every human being I. 594 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:10,080 Love that. Yeah, yeah. 595 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:12,960 Every human being has access to the Internet. 596 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:16,200 That that in that collective, you should be more 597 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:17,480 knowledgeable. I think we're not. 598 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,280 We're less knowledgeable than we are right now, you know, than we 599 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,680 used to be during book days. You know, that's my opinion, OK? 600 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:27,360 Yep. So you have to know what it is 601 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,080 and, and programs like this, you know, where you're, you're 602 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,040 working with somebody who has gone through it. 603 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:33,800 And there's a reason there's no hair on my head. 604 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,480 This is not by design. I'm not Dwayne Johnson, you 605 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:40,640 know, this is, this is, this is every, every, every thread on my 606 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:43,440 head, every follicle was $1,000,000 incremental revenue 607 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,080 for my clients. You know, that's how I lost it, 608 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,880 you know, So even though I look, I probably look good on camera, 609 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,680 you know, with, with no hair, you know, but The thing is, 610 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,800 it's, it's the you have to understand and education is a 611 00:29:56,800 --> 00:29:59,280 big thing. And especially knowing what type 612 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,280 of education. If you focus too much on tactics 613 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,120 and you do things haphazardly because you were sitting on the 614 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,160 toilet and and you went through TikTok and you saw something, 615 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,200 Oh, you should do this on meta. By tweaking this, you're going 616 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:15,320 to get more click through. That has not that has nothing to 617 00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,520 do with your business. In fact, look at the number of 618 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,280 views on that on that TikTok. That content was produced to get 619 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,520 views, not to help you. You know, you have to understand 620 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:28,040 where the source of the information is come coming from, 621 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,800 where your consult is coming from. 622 00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,560 And a good consult does cost money, right? 623 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:34,960 But that consult gives you a huge. 624 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,000 In fact, I have what I called, you know, you know how you have 625 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,200 ROAS for return on advertising spend? 626 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,240 I have for my clients, I have return on severe spend. 627 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,280 So when they spend in my program, what is the return 628 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:48,520 they're getting in their business? 629 00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:51,000 And you call it Ross. There's a Ross. 630 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,000 Yeah, not a friend reference, by the way. 631 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,920 So, so you know, it's something that you have to get, you know, 632 00:30:58,000 --> 00:31:01,160 you have to understand, get educated and understand where 633 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,400 you come from. So what I promised you, how did, 634 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:08,040 how, how did these guys get like 108% incremental revenue in 21 635 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,880 days? That's a very short period of 636 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:11,760 time. It's three weeks, right? 637 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,640 Imagine what you were doing 3 weeks ago and three weeks have 638 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:16,880 lapsed. It's 21 days now, right? 639 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:21,360 So the first thing, the very first thing, and this is 640 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,720 something that every person on every listener on winning with 641 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,200 Shopify should do, open up your browser, go to 642 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:32,720 gtmetricsgtmetrix.com. I know it well. 643 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,720 As an SEO guy, I know it very well. 644 00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,040 And the number 2 tool is webpagetest.org. 645 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,520 That's a second tool, right? Both are very good, right? 646 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,640 And it gives you, each one of them gives you some kind of data 647 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,920 and is very useful. And, and the three pages that I 648 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,520 want you to test on your site, right? 649 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,000 The number one, this is in order of priority because everything 650 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:57,120 we do, it is purposeful. You know, we want to make sure 651 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:00,120 that you're not wasting your time prioritizing something 652 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:01,360 that's not going to give you results. 653 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,520 So number one is your best selling product. 654 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,280 You mentioned the best seller, right, Being heavy, right? 655 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,200 So the number one, you're going to be testing your on these two 656 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,240 tools, you're going to be testing your best selling 657 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,560 product page #2 you're going to be testing your best sellers 658 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,840 collections page for some categories for fashion, for 659 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:25,880 example, it might be your winter collection or spring collection. 660 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,040 Whenever you're listening to this or your new arrivals in the 661 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,200 fashion industry or, or jewelry, you know it would be that you 662 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,520 know, because that's going to be a hot category for you and most 663 00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:39,240 frequented page, right? And, and we're following 8020 664 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,360 rule, there are certain pages that generates 80% of your 665 00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,240 revenue. So focus on that. 666 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,600 And it's, it's 20% of your, you know, it's 8020 basically. 667 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,960 And the third one, the least important is your homepage, 668 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,080 right? So many people focus so much on 669 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,480 homepage thinking that, oh, it's my homepage, I need to get it 670 00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,360 right. Less than 30% of your traffic is 671 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,000 going if you're doing everything right. 672 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,000 Less than less than 30% of your traffic is going to your 673 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,400 homepage. And most of it has to do with 674 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,640 your branding. Maybe they know your name, they 675 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:13,240 type in nicktruman.com and you sell tuxedos and stuff like 676 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:14,520 that. Suits, right. 677 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,040 I just made you a nice. That's a good idea. 678 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,400 Yeah. Nick Truman sounds like a sounds 679 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,560 like a high end suit. You know those are the three. 680 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:27,240 Any British names? So those three, if you, if you 681 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,320 when you run this report, it will be a rude awakening for 682 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,640 you. And what is the KPI on that? 683 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,480 On those reports, you should pay attention to time to interact. 684 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:40,560 Time to interact is the only KPI you need to get right in this 685 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,600 first phase, right? And what is the number? 686 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:48,680 The number needs to be less than two seconds, but better to be 687 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,520 1.7 seconds. And I'll explain to you what 688 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,440 this number is and I'll tell you what the averages are. 689 00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:58,240 When people run this report, the number that they usually get 690 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,800 because of Shopify themes being so bloated for most of them are 691 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,120 right. And even if you're building on 692 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,880 top of it, if it's not the theme, then you're loading it up 693 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,600 with 20 to 25 apps because it's like your theme is lacking this 694 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,360 and that and whatever have you that time to interact. 695 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,320 In your case, most likely this is averages from 2024 for people 696 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,840 who run it before the optimization, 15 to 20 seconds. 697 00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:29,520 So you're off by 11:50 X compared to this 1.7 second 698 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,679 number I gave you. And why is this 1.7 second 699 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:39,000 number so important? Human attention span is 1.7 700 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:44,320 seconds in 2024-2025, right? That means that your average 701 00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:48,360 consumer will give you permission to distract them for 702 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,679 1.7 seconds. And if your page is taking a 703 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:56,840 sweet time showing up and where do they need to show up? 704 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,960 By the way, this 1.7 seconds, this is a device. 705 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,200 Yeah, it's not mixed. It's not your Mac. 706 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,960 It's not your brilliant Mac. That's 40 inches Apple plasma, Q 707 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:11,160 LED, Samsung TV, whatever. None of that. 708 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,680 That's garbage. That's less for most Shopify 709 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,640 businesses. That's less than 20% of your 710 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,800 traffic. You should almost I'll give you, 711 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,560 I'll give you this permission for 2025 because we are 712 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,440 recording it at the beginning of this year right now, right in 713 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:27,280 2025. Ignore your desktop traffic this 714 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,320 entire year. Laser focus on this device on 715 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:33,120 mobile. That's what I'm showing on. 716 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,600 I know that this goes out in audio. 717 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:40,280 Also in the US this device will be iPhone because by far iPhone 718 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,720 adoption is the highest in the US, you know, compared to other 719 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:47,000 Android devices. In the UK it could be Samsung 720 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,840 Galaxy and iPhone. So you would prioritize Samsung 721 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,640 Galaxy first. But make sure also it works in 722 00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,240 some other markets. iPhone doesn't have a data option. 723 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,760 It's it's an Android device like Google Pixel or Nokia phone or 724 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,600 whatever. Get your site this attention 725 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,400 span that I'm talking about that time to interact needs to be 1.7 726 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,520 seconds. Anything above 1.7 seconds, your 727 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:14,240 business is 100% losing money and you're losing even more 728 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,320 money because you're, you're, you're putting money on meta ads 729 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,040 and Google ads and you're, you're suffering from row As for 730 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,000 no reason. It has nothing to do with with 731 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,840 the creative testing or audience segmentation or there's some 732 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,320 kind of flaw with advantage plus performance, Max performance 733 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:32,240 plus whatever, right? It has nothing. 734 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,080 Those, those are amazing. They have come a long way and 735 00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:37,000 they do an amazing. You just have to structure it 736 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,440 properly. But before you even do that, fix 737 00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:41,880 your house first. Your site, these 3 pages. 738 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,800 I just said with the two tools, fix it and make sure that you 739 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,800 when you're testing it, you're testing it for mobile device and 740 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,360 your preferred mobile. Device, yeah, absolutely. 741 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:53,320 And to back up what you're saying as well as someone who 742 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,640 works in SEO and deals with page speed on a daily basis, Shopify 743 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,120 is hard work guys like the amount of JavaScript that's 744 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,880 running and because people just keep seeing shiny objects. 745 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,160 Yeah, exactly. And they just keep adding apps. 746 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,840 They're just like, OK, let's no. No, we hear like on a podcast 747 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,640 like yours and I, right? Yeah, yeah, on there's some the 748 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,960 guest says, oh, we use XYZ app. I don't want to name anything 749 00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,880 right now because as soon as I name it, they're going to go in 750 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,000 and that's a problem. You should not do that. 751 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,240 In fact, in this performance optimization in that first week, 752 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:29,840 besides cleaning up this part of it is also reduction in apps. 753 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,760 Like I'll give you a ridiculous, I'll give you a ridiculous 754 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,480 example. One of the rapid 2 Xers, right? 755 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,080 That's the implementation program for the AD method right 756 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,360 had three live chat apps. So think of it like looks was 757 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:49,960 there there was, you know, another one yacht PO and another 758 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:50,800 one right, three. I'll. 759 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,560 Talk to or Yeah. Irony. 760 00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,240 When you go to the site, there is no live chat. 761 00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:02,240 Doesn't as an SEO guy, doesn't surprise me in the slightest. 3 762 00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:06,720 apps so it's not just installing the app and and having it show 763 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:09,360 up and cause delays and stuff like that, right? 764 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:13,720 It's also what what is it doing? It's hitting your pocket on a 765 00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:15,880 monthly basis. Shopify billing is charging you 766 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,560 apps subscription fee. Everybody should audit their 767 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,360 list and go like because it's where does it come from? 768 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,440 It comes from you're hiring freelancers. 769 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:25,800 They want to install their own app. 770 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,960 You're hiring agencies because of dashboard, whatever, whatever 771 00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:30,960 you need to install this app, They install that app. 772 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,200 You hired somebody three years ago, they worked six months They 773 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,440 they found this thing because they listened to some podcaster 774 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:38,880 saying that you should install this. 775 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,200 It's so cool they installed it the the company owner doesn't 776 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,600 even know that that thing exists. 777 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,720 But when they look at the app list they don't know if they 778 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:50,000 should remove it or not. But the person who was using it 779 00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,120 got fired three years ago, is still there for the last three 780 00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:55,880 years they were paying. For it we, we, so we've started 781 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:59,240 replacing apps with our own scripts so we, some of the 782 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:02,200 developers we work with now when we're trying to do SEO stuff we 783 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,320 actually tasked them with saying like you know when you, when you 784 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:06,840 add a product to check out and it says like here's a little 785 00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,280 loading bar you need to spend 10 more dollars you get free 786 00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,720 delivery make that just a little piece of little script don't 787 00:39:12,720 --> 00:39:15,240 have an app because an app fires off to someone else's server 788 00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:17,600 that then comes back and then Shopify us to like check it all. 789 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:20,960 If you just build a small script that does it in HTML or 790 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,480 JavaScript on the page, it just loads as the page loads. 791 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:26,840 There's no the servers to hit there's nothing else to happen 792 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,640 it just loads on the page and it uses your own CSS. 793 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,000 If you add an app in you've had to style that app in another 794 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:36,800 CSS, you end up with like 20 CSS files alone, none of which are 795 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,640 minified, which means they've got basically loads of white 796 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,560 space everywhere. I completely agree with you and. 797 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,320 Or worse or worse, even though Shopify is on ACDN is 798 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:52,000 distributed really well, right? Shopify CDN is incredible, but 799 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:56,640 those apps, 95% of them are not on any CDN. 800 00:39:56,760 --> 00:40:01,200 So if a South African app developer produced this app and 801 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,000 it's an amazing app, it might be serving off of their server and 802 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,080 it's not really optimized for a distributed cloud distributed 803 00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,360 app or anything like that. There's no such thing. 804 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,640 So what happens as soon as you install that? 805 00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:16,800 And and you know, one of the big culprits of that, even though I 806 00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:19,600 love the platform because I love innovation and developers 807 00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:24,080 producing new things App Sumo. So if you have App Sumo and 808 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:26,520 you're addicted to it, I was addicted to it at one point 809 00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,480 myself too, you come across an app, oh, you know what, it's 810 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:32,720 very enticing. 79 bucks for lifetime access. 811 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,680 When they come about, they're going to be charging $300.00 a 812 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:37,320 month. So you want to get in quickly 813 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,560 and you want to take this guys as an entrepreneur. 814 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,200 You want to save money, but saving that money. 815 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,080 It's possible that the app developer is good at what they 816 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,720 did, but they're not good at optimization. 817 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,600 So you just install this thing and it's what it's doing is 818 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,520 dragging down your performance on your site. 819 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,840 A lot of these things you have to be very careful and you know, 820 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,400 every, anytime you add anything to your site, an app, a 821 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,680 JavaScript or, or or another big, big, big culprit of 822 00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:07,040 performance hog is a Google tag manager, right? 823 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:09,440 So that could come from agencies, right? 824 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,000 They install that so that they are independent of it to put 825 00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,600 things in there and stuff. But but The thing is that slows 826 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,520 a lot of things down natively. If you're doing things, it's a 827 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,760 lot better for you to do that. Like you said, writing that a 828 00:41:21,760 --> 00:41:25,000 small JavaScript to do exactly what you want it to do. 829 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,320 You need a good developer to do that and even that I would 830 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,280 distribute it through cloud also. 831 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,440 We have actually seen and let's not get too much into this, but 832 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:34,480 just a flag there. I agree with you on tag manager. 833 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,920 If you natively install stuff, it tends to be better. 834 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,000 We have some clients at their, their tag manager requirement is 835 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,760 so big that actually it, it just is completely insanity. 836 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:45,680 Need to try and do it manually within Shopify. 837 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,800 The amount of scripts you'd have on your checkout or the 838 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,360 confirmation page going off to Meta, Google recruiting and a 839 00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:52,960 whole range of like Pinterest ads. 840 00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,600 It stacks up. Whereas on tag manager you can 841 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,840 just have one tag firing. But this is where I think people 842 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,560 don't understand tag manager. They just, they just go like 843 00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,640 I'll copy and paste the tag out of Meta and use that. 844 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:04,360 I'll copy and paste this. When you use that, you can 845 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,960 actually set tag manager up. So it grabs like one, one thing 846 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:11,640 to say like 4 items bought, name of item, and it grabs all of 847 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,360 that once. And then if the 1 tag tag fires 848 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,360 to multiple locations within tag manager. 849 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,280 The problem with tag manager, I think, which is what you're 850 00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,520 alluding to is where people just load it up with 1000 tags and 851 00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,640 they're all running at once. We've got 5 minutes left Sabir 852 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,240 and I want to cover something we've mentioned twice now, 853 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,680 attribution. So in 5 minutes. 854 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,600 And then there's an amazing offer for you guys as well. 855 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,480 So just keep listening. Something something I need you 856 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:37,160 guys to do and I need to certainly if you want to grow 857 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,640 your business this year, you're stuck in that million. 858 00:42:38,640 --> 00:42:39,880 So you've got to hang around for that. 859 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,400 But 5 minutes, a beer attribution. 860 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,680 How do brands fully understand how much money they make from 861 00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,240 each channel to do what we were talking about earlier, which is 862 00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:52,000 move their budget levers around and go more budget here, less 863 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,320 here, less here, more over there. 864 00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:55,560 Try something new. How much can I afford to waste 865 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:57,160 or invest in it to see if it works? 866 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,600 How do you fully track that? Like is there a golden tool? 867 00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:02,760 Obviously not. How do you read data? 868 00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:03,920 How do you do attribution properly? 869 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,840 So here's the thing, all these platforms are throwing data at 870 00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,040 you right now. That's great. 871 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,400 It's like when I turn on my TV, everybody's giving me news. 872 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,680 I don't know if that's the right news or fake news or real news 873 00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:20,080 or, or is it? Is it biased in some way, Right. 874 00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,240 And in case of online attribution, there's a lot of 875 00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:27,080 biased data there is, you know, because if you look at Google 876 00:43:27,080 --> 00:43:30,040 Analytics, for example, it would give credit to everything 877 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,840 related to Google properties, right? 878 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,040 Google ads, YouTube, Google SEO, it will give all the credit to 879 00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,000 us, right? It's all us. 880 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:40,520 You don't need anything else. Just shut everything else down, 881 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:42,920 right? And you shouldn't, you shouldn't 882 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,360 do that, right? And the same applies to Meta, 883 00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:47,920 right? When you install Meta, Meta also 884 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:51,720 says, oh, this was our traffic. And and if you do a view through 885 00:43:51,720 --> 00:43:53,920 conversion, they take even more credit. 886 00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:58,560 Card don't use that. There are a lot of things like 887 00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,040 that that happens, right? That's the reality of it. 888 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,960 This is where you need to, you need to work with a third party 889 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,600 tool that gives you unbiased data so that you're looking at 890 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:13,880 it more holistically because your, your, your E com store 891 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:17,200 doesn't run on a on an isolated channel. 892 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:20,800 It never does, right? You'll have always have whether 893 00:44:20,800 --> 00:44:24,200 it's a direct influence because you're doing a great job on, on 894 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:26,800 on branding through social media and people know your name. 895 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,520 So that's where they're going to your homepage and typing your 896 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:33,320 domain name right. However, and nothing happens in 897 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,200 isolation. There's always cause and effect. 898 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:39,480 There are for a digitally native brands, meaning that they only 899 00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,440 sell through e-commerce. It's about 7:00 to 9:00 digital 900 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,960 touch points before they make a purchase buying decision. 901 00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,720 Not purchase yet, but purchase buying decision. 902 00:44:49,720 --> 00:44:52,520 And changing devices and all sorts like it's just so easy to 903 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:54,320 lose them in any tool. Absolutely. 904 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,960 And also if you are if your brand, because you have, I'm 905 00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,560 sure that you have brands that are in here with winning with 906 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:03,320 Shopify that are well distributed, meaning that they 907 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:08,080 sell it on High Street, Main St. as well as on Amazon and Shopify 908 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:10,680 and so on, right. In that case, it tends to be 909 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:14,760 between 20 to 30 that digital touch points right for them to 910 00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:16,280 actually make a buying decision. Why? 911 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:19,760 Because the convenience of just going to the corner drugstore to 912 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,040 pick up that shampoo right. It's it's easy to do that, but I 913 00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:27,000 did my research online. I in fact, I might be standing 914 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,160 in the physical store using my phone, trying to do my research 915 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,560 reviews, social proof, all that stuff to decide if I want to buy 916 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,240 this thing or you know, if there was a coupon or something like 917 00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:39,600 that, it might influence me to do that too. 918 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:43,920 That behavior. So when it comes to, you know, 919 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:48,520 attribution, you know, initially, yeah, look at the 920 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:50,280 data, but it's not going to tell you. 921 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:52,520 Like I can tell you from my experience, meta ads over 922 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,440 reports, Google ads on the reports when you look at their 923 00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,680 ad, just ad reporting, for example, right. 924 00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:00,200 But what you're missing is where was the journey? 925 00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:03,480 How was the journey, right? You missed that picture of off 926 00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:06,160 journey. Google Analytics 3 used to give 927 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,080 you some journey. Google Analytics 4, you know, is 928 00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,560 a mixed bag. I don't like it. 929 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,800 Actually, I used to love Google Analytics 3. 930 00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,400 I don't like like Google Analyst 4. 931 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,920 I think they should fire the team that actually did that. 932 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,240 I'm sure I'm going to have some haters now because of it. 933 00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,600 No, I agree. I completely agree. 934 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,600 I've said that before. It's such a such a trash when 935 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:27,440 they because The thing is, I even come from the old school of 936 00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:29,880 urchin. That's where the UTM tag comes 937 00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,680 from. It turned into universal tag 938 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,960 tracking. You know, you know, link, but 939 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,560 but it was urchin and then urchin turned into Google 940 00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:41,320 Analytics 3, right? And I used to love it, but when 941 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,200 Analytics 4 doesn't give me that right, there's a lot of things 942 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:46,600 it just doesn't give me, even though it overloads you with 943 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:50,080 information. However, there are tools and one 944 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,600 of the tools that's recommended through our program is called 945 00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:56,760 Add Beacon, right? At Beacon does an incredible 946 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,200 job. If you want to check it out, you 947 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,040 can go to growthbysevere.com slash at Beacon. 948 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,480 My team has negotiated some kind of a special deal there, right? 949 00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,080 They can they can check that out. 950 00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:10,200 What that does is actually does proper attribution so that it's 951 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,280 not just attribution, you want it to be actionable. 952 00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,720 So in case of at Beacon, right, I don't own at Beacon. 953 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,360 Phoenix Hall owns it and she does a fabulous job. 954 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,960 You know, she's the founder of of at Beacon and AD Beacon 955 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,480 allows you to not only do attribution and look at that 956 00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,520 data, in fact, you can manage your ads inside of ad Beacon. 957 00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:30,960 So you when you know, when you're deciding where you want 958 00:47:30,960 --> 00:47:33,880 to shift your money or shut down certain campaigns or shut down 959 00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:36,720 certain ad creative, you go through that process, right? 960 00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:40,240 Instead of using meta ads or Google ads, you would use ad 961 00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:42,800 beacon because it gives you a more holistic view of what's 962 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,840 happening with that campaign or creative or whatever you're 963 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:47,880 testing. And then that's where you can do 964 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:51,440 either allocation or de allocate your budget and that's how you 965 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,680 optimize it. So folks who have gone through 966 00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,640 rapid 2X and have implemented on the paid ad side, because that's 967 00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:59,720 another sub dimension of performance optimization. 968 00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:05,760 What they see that they get about 6 to 9 X Google ads Roaz, 969 00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,720 which is a ridiculous growth, right? 970 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:11,200 And these are scale, these are these budgets are have scaled 971 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:13,240 over time. So these are not small budgets. 972 00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,560 These are some of them, like in case of Orrin brothers, it's a 973 00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:18,120 very giant, it's a gigantic budget now, right? 974 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:22,040 For meta ads, it tends to be between 4:00 and 6:00 X. 975 00:48:22,160 --> 00:48:25,080 You know, from a, from a Roaz standpoint, right, That's what 976 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,200 they get. Pinterest, interestingly enough, 977 00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,600 sits right in the middle of these two from a robust 978 00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,640 performance perspective. I quite like it as a social 979 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:33,720 platform. I think you get a good 980 00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:37,400 conversion rate from it compared to Instagram, meta and and 981 00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:39,640 TikTok I'm on the fence about. We won't talk about TikTok today 982 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:41,360 but yeah Pinterest seems to work pretty well. 983 00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:43,440 From from what? Especially if your products, if 984 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,680 you're in a product category where it's in a household or or 985 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:49,320 consumable product. The reason Pinterest works 986 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,960 really well is because more than, I would say 86% of 987 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,680 household income decisions are made by women and more than 80% 988 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,560 of traffic on Pinterest is is women. 989 00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:03,240 And also it's a planning platform. 990 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,240 So if your products fall into those kind of categories 991 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,000 influencing the influencing the influencer of that household, 992 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,080 you know, you can grow a pretty good revenue from from 993 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:14,560 Pinterest. It's an amazing platform. 994 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:17,640 And among the social commerce platforms, Pinterest actually 995 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:19,560 has done a great job among all of them. 996 00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,800 You know, everybody, everybody's trying to do shopping, right? 997 00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,720 But Pinterest has done a phenomenal job at that, you 998 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:27,160 know? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 999 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:29,680 Well, look, Sabir, I really appreciate your time and 1000 00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:33,000 everyone listening. I said there is an offer for you 1001 00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,920 guys and Sabir has mentioned over and over again this 1002 00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:38,400 incredible platform that he runs program, Sorry. 1003 00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,640 I highly recommend this program. I think you guys should 1004 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,640 definitely go and check it out. Definitely come and have a look. 1005 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,040 And also they won't charge you for that first conversation. 1006 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,760 So definitely book a call, see what they could do for your 1007 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,320 business. If you head over to Growth by 1008 00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:54,000 Sabir, that's spelled S A/B IR Growth by sabir.com/winning. 1009 00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:55,880 That means you've come through us. 1010 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:57,000 They're going to look after you guys. 1011 00:49:57,000 --> 00:49:59,800 They potentially some sort of offer as well, but they'll know 1012 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,520 you've come through the podcast and then exactly how to how to 1013 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,280 address helping you guys what you've heard today as well. 1014 00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,520 So Sabir, an enormous thank you for me. 1015 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,120 Thank you so much for your time. Appreciate you coming on and. 1016 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,320 Sharing me, I hope that we we delivered tremendous value to 1017 00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,640 your audience. Always love, you know, 1018 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,200 presenting to to your audience here because you know, I just 1019 00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:20,760 love entrepreneurs, you know, especially the ones that want to 1020 00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,800 grow their business, you know. Absolutely, absolutely. 1021 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:26,200 We're an interesting bunch. Yeah, Appreciate your time. 1022 00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:29,000 Thanks to everybody as well for listening at home or in the gym 1023 00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,320 or in the car, wherever you are right now. 1024 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,400 We post every Friday. If you haven't already, hit the 1025 00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,120 subscribe button and go to our website and join our community. 1026 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:37,280 It's absolutely amazing. The conversations have kicked 1027 00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,320 off so much in the last 3-4 weeks. 1028 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:41,440 I'm barely talking because I can't keep up. 1029 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:43,600 Some great discussions to check out the community. 1030 00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:45,240 Thanks again for tuning in. See you again next week.