Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast, it's.
Beyond just putting me in a box that says hey I need an agent to
do this for me. I just keep clicking stuff until
it says speak to human. We don't love telling people the
same thing over and over and over again.
It has nothing to do with saving money, nothing to do with
alleviating workload on agents. It's all about speed and
offering a level of support that they otherwise.
Couldn't this has to be a chat box?
It's like first name and you're like Nick and then click send
last name. You know that was too fast.
Hello and welcome to another episode of the winning Shop of
Fight podcast. For anyone that's not tuned in
before, my name is Nick. I'm here in the British Isles,
hence my very posh accent as you guys over in the States Tell me
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It's fine. It's a safe space.
Come and chat with us. Now today you've probably seen
in the title, we're talking about something you've probably
never heard heard of before, which is AI.
Obviously I'm joking, everyone knows what AI is and or
certainly know a little bit about it, but we want to know a
little bit more. So today we're going to be
talking about AI and customer service.
And joining me is a very special guest.
His name is Jacob from a company called Tidio.
Jacob, welcome to the show. How are you?
I'm doing well, thanks for having me.
Well, it's great to have you on the show, and as we do with all
of our guests, when we first start off each episode, tell us
a little bit about your background, tell us about Tidio,
and then we'll crack on talking about some of the features of
it, things it does, and how it can help some of our amazing
listeners at home. Yeah, yeah, 100%.
So I am an account executive at Tidio and I've been working in
SAS sales, started as an SDR, kind of worked my way up into
inside sales and then the AE position.
So I'm I'm familiar with the space, but I've been working at
Tidio, started as an AE, and I'm entirely on the inbound team.
So 100% of my work day is spent meeting with businesses that are
somewhat interested in some aspect of AI for their customer
service and customer experience. Which is everyone right now,
isn't it like. At this point in AI.
Yep. Surely.
Tell us a bit about Tidio then. What does Tidio actually do?
We mentioned AI, mentioned customer service.
Like if somebody's like, OK, I'm going to use Tidio, what are
they actually getting from you guys?
What service? What platform?
Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's there's kind of
three major pillars to the platform.
It's a customer experience platform.
We started 12 years ago as all live chat and ticketing.
So in the early days, everything was human to human oriented, you
could say. And that's kind of the
foundation that we've been building upon.
And then shortly after we got into the automation sphere and
kind of built that on top of the help desk functionalities we
have starting with flows. So still relatively simple,
right? Decision trees you're you're
your true chat bot. You could say a flow is all all
if then decision making. And then most recently, really
in the last yeah, two years, it's it's been a major focus on
the conversational AI component, which is way different from
these flow style chat bot automations because it's it's
not pre scripted. I'm not saying what the next
step is or connecting stages, right?
And so the bit you're saying it's not is when you like you're
talking to a chat bot, a live chat pops up and it says which
of the four options you most interesting, like track my
order, like get a refund, etcetera.
Both sides right the the customer experience is
completely different because it's not button driven and
you're not dragging me through a series of steps where I can't
see the end. But then also configuring it is
completely different because I don't need to map out all of
those steps. It's it's operating based off
the data sources that I teach it.
So I kind of, I control its brain and that's really the
extent of how I manipulate the AI.
So yeah. Which I think is really
interesting because so many people, I think I read a study
on this recently, I can't remember the number, but I
remember being impressed by the how high the percentage was.
The people that were like, I just keep clicking stuff until
it says speak to human. And then I read the stats at the
bottom of that saying. The irony is as well, all the
people that were using that answered the survey were using
the same platform. And about 40% of them actually
were still talking to AI when they thought there was a human.
Which we're going to talk about a little bit as we go through
and kind of the ethics, the morals, and also the best
approach to that. We're going to go back in in a
bit more detail later, but how let's start off with like how
AI, right? How is it transforming customer
service for businesses? Like what are some of the
fundamental things it's changing apart from, you know, you might,
you might tell some of the obvious bits, but what are what
are the less obvious things than just saving time, saving money,
less humans on the ground? Yeah, I think a a big thing that
I see from larger businesses, at least this is what they claim.
It has nothing to do with saving money, nothing to do with
alleviating workload on agents and it's all about speed and
offering a level of support that they otherwise couldn't.
So I think that's a, a big thing is just the, the pace at which
support operations are working at now.
And they've, you know, we've kind of shifted from using
automations think like chat bots, whereas really our
expectation was just that they're going to help us sort
out the volume, right? Things like a main menu, they
take everyone in and then they help compartmentalize all these
requests so that we can work through them faster.
And now we're way beyond just sorting and organizing these
requests so that humans can answer them.
We're, we are answering them, right?
We're trying to resolve tickets before they become tickets in
the 1st place. So, yeah, maybe that's the more
obvious the Level 0, but I think something maybe less talked
about, it's just the general speed and customer expectations
that go with that. Which I think is amazing because
speed is not what I thought you were going to say, but I think
it's such a valid point. It's such a logical point when
you think about it. And certainly if you think about
like, I don't know, big store, even if you had 1000 staff on
the ground, but you had like 23000 requests coming in every
20 minutes, every 30 minutes from from customers, which for
some large brands would, would absolutely happen.
But that speed being able to go right, 30% of them, we just
dealt with it quickly. Or actually this, and I guess
you kind of hinted at this. I don't know if this is kind of
where, where you were going to go with this, but you could
almost have like 1 department specializes in order and like
confirmation emails, for example, if someone gets in
touch to go, I just want to confirm like I've just ordered.
Can I confirm my address or whatever.
Having a team that's like we're logged into the order management
system so we can see those details and change those
quickly. We're logged into the return
system over here. Means the chat box getting you
to the right team, and the right team's still doing the job,
isn't it? As opposed to AI replacing the
humans as you said? Sure.
Yeah, yeah, no, 100%. And then even doing some of
those things for the agents, which is kind of at the
forefront of what we're at now. It's beyond just putting me in a
box that says, hey, I need an agent to do this for me.
And it's hey, we've already done this for the customer, now we
need the agent to do this final, last step.
So yeah, it's just taking over more and more of the process,
which isn't a bad thing, right? If you speak with people who are
on the front lines, actually answering the support questions,
we don't love telling people the same thing over and over and
over again. So yeah, it's in everyone's best
interest for the most part. Yeah, I think it's amazing.
And also like I was talking to a friend of mine who works for a
bank in their customer service team and I say what's one of the
best bits of tech you've got there?
And he he said my workload literally became 50% easier,
which meant I could give customers more attention.
When each customer comes in, they've already had 7 or 8
messages backwards and forwards of what they think is me.
But I'm actually just asking what's your date of birth, your
name, your account number? And actually now I know who you
are. So when I get to you in the
queue and I've got, he said, I'll have three conversations,
open a live chat, anyone time. All their information is just
there. And I'm just like, hey, how can
I help? And the AI bot will even, he
said it will even summarize like what their main thing was.
So if they said like, oh, I'm really unhappy and then my wife
had this and then this happened to me.
The AI bot will summarize all of that and say like, we keep
losing our debit cards. Then the agent goes, would you
like me to send you a new debit card?
And it's like you just so that's his first interaction.
But they've had actually quite a nice polite conversation and you
say speed. It's been really quick.
But I, he did tell me that with the speed, he was trying not to
let the chat bot reply too quickly so that you were like,
this has to be a chat box. It's like first name and you're
like Nick and then click send last name and you're like, that
was too fast. Like creating a delay in there.
How much do you guys find? You have to do that with the
tech as well, so that when it is sending those kind of initial
messages or when you've got this, you have to to set delays
just so the customer's expectations.
Like it's quick, but it's not too quick.
And there's still been no human usage for this stuff.
Actually, that's quite mundane. No, I would say that's extremely
relevant and those are the things that like a lot of the
clients I meet with, they don't even think about that kind of
stuff. Is that being too fast through
an automation could be perceived not so well, which like I think
all of that is going to change long term, but we are still
absolutely dealing with that right now.
Where if end users don't feel that it's human like that, then
they're those same visitors who are in the chat saying human,
human, human, human, right. So no, it's, it's very
important. Yeah, yeah.
And overlooked many times. Absolutely.
And yeah, I can imagine their confidence lost when it's not
done right. And so, I mean, we're kind of
hinting at this anyway. Would would you say that
actually AI is enabling humans to do their jobs better?
Or is actually it starting to replace humans?
Or is it a murky mix of the two? I would say it's a non murky mix
of the two. Like it's and and yeah, I think
I work in sales so I need to know my audience most of the
time. And a lot of times you might
have customer support directors and things like that where they
don't want to hear anything about really replacing human
agents, right. But then we might talk to the.
Finance they have. Finance or even like these
bigger organizations, they have teams that are like director of
process improvement. And so look, that's all they
want to talk about is how can we improve process.
And if that's replacing people, that just means we're going to
use those people to do something more valuable.
Doesn't mean we're just going in sweeping through the
organization and firing everyone, right.
But I think that, yeah, as far as helping human agents, we
think about things like Copilot where it's the AI is already
tapped into the conversation and I'm not having the AI take over
the conversation entirely. But there are definitely
instances where I can say, wow, this is what the AI would have
said to this question that the customer just asked me.
I could sit here and retype this whole thing, or I could just
edit or send what the AI has already typed.
So in many ways, speed, like it's, it's helping the agents
work faster. It's helping the agents avoid
those questions that make their eyes roll.
You know, and when you're dealing, when you're a live
agent and you're handling, you know, maybe 100 chats, 50 plus
chats a day, you have plenty of those eye roll moments.
It's those questions that are on the website made like there are
things that are on the homepage that visitors will ask your live
agents. So I think in that respect, we
clean that up. It is just completely false
though to say that like AI is not taking anyone's job.
And this isn't just in the respect of support, right?
If, if I have a team of 100 people with 0 automation in
place and in a matter of 30 to 60 days, I can have 50% of all
of our previous chats resolved in a couple of you know, back
and forth messages with the AII need my human agents who were
responsible for that 50% and I need to give them something
else. So it's yeah, not that they're
disappearing, but like Tedio went through this, we went
through this ourselves. We didn't used to have AI
support in our chat. We have full live team of human
agents and we still do. But those live agents are not
working on level 0, they're working on level 1, Level 2,
They're working on multi day tickets that require external
teams from the support team to help with that kind of stuff.
So everything's shifting up. I mean, you see this in coding,
You see this everywhere. So yeah.
Yeah, and it's. That's a long answer.
Yeah, yeah, no, no, I really appreciate it.
And I think it's the same with that.
I used to run an IT company and we used to provide a lot of
phone systems and we had like level 1, level 2, Level 3
support, and level 1 support was like, my phone's not working.
Have you turned it off and on? No, do that.
Oh, it's working now. That's like level 1, level 2.
Then it's like, OK, let's reinstall some software and
stuff, but you, the end user are going to do it, tell you how to
do it and you're going to do it. And we obviously need a more
senior person that Level 3 is like something's broken in the
data center and that we need to fix that.
And that's Level 3. And you're absolutely right.
If we just had everybody like maybe one person at level 1, one
person level 2 and then 50 people at Level 3, that's a good
way of breaking down those levels.
And I think it's really interesting what you say
actually about the and I think it's applies to any role in
sales. And actually to go on a very
quick tangent, everyone listening, marketing is most the
most important thing in marketing is the person you
marketing to. And I love what you just said
about there different people you find yourself in front of from a
sales perspective because they've all got their own
different drivers and you need to get those things to align.
And the hardest thing is, especially if you've got
multiple people, it's the conversations they have between
themselves that you're not in because obviously you're
external. And it's when they're like that
Tedio talk, he didn't manage to answer this very, he said he
can't do that. That's a real sticking point.
And you need someone else to advocate for you to go.
But we don't need that. That's not a feature we need.
Or actually, even if it doesn't have that, we're still saving
40% efficiency. That's.
The thing more accurate, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, just to your
point there, people are are so fixated, some stakeholders, they
get fixated on the problem today.
And and then you start going back and forth about really
trivial things like oh, what about the extra click that we're
going to have to face on this platform, whereas our old
platform, our agents don't have to do that extra click.
And so it's exactly what you just said.
What about the 40% resolution so.
We, I mean, we have it with some clients and yeah, just any
clients listening right now or yeah, any potential clients
we're going to pitch to in the future, like please hear this in
the nicest, politest possible way.
I'm doing this for your own good.
Sometimes we show data to people.
And I've just done a talk in London when this episode goes
out and where I'm specifically talking about the assumptions we
make in marketing because we haven't checked the data.
And once we've made the assumption and deployed a
change, we still don't check the data.
And I'm sharing some case studies, which I'll be the
probably the first agencies ever stood on the stage and go look,
look at these negative results on some case studies.
And it's where we've all like us, including we've made the
wrong assumptions. We've gone, no one reads all
this chunky text, put it behind a read more button.
So we did and conversion rate dropped.
People wanted the text and we just made an assumption and
didn't test it. And then when we did test it
retrospectively, Oh my gosh, it made such a difference.
But I think it's, as I say, it's just so important when we look
at who we're selling to and that's marketing.
But also when you look at the your system and actually the
people in customer service, the more I think from my
perspective, the more AI can unlock some of the key
information about the customer you're speaking to, the quicker
you're going to get the answer. You mentioned something I think
is really, really valuable. And I talk about this quite a
lot on the show. So if you've heard this before,
click boil on the kettle quickly.
And we talk a lot about talking to the customer service team to
find out what people are asking. And we as an SEO agency, we put
that into content. So if everyone's phoning up
going, I have not purchased yet, I am pre purchased, I'm going to
the extent of a phone call to find out when I order this item
that weighs 400 kilograms. I don't know what that is in
pounds for you guys in the US, it's heavy like several, like
probably about 7 or 8 humans worth who work out and aren't
too tall. So something's really heavy.
You phone customer service, say, is it going to be delivered by
two people and they go, oh, the contents on the website that is
SEO gold dust because they're just the ones that phoned up.
The other people would go, well, this company clearly just Chuck
it in a van and someone wheels it to your front door and that's
the end of the process. So question to you, and this is
slightly off pieced a little bit talking about the AI, but I'm
sure the AI can support this. How much reporting did your
customers get from TIDO and how much, how many questions they
start asking once they've got a better piece of software like
you guys to then go this, this is our marketing strategies
breaking down all these pain points to make the sale.
Yeah, I would say the analytics are more than half the battle to
making the AI perform well anyways.
So it's it's going to serve you on multiple fronts.
But no matter how much data you have today, even if you've been
running your support operation for 15 years and you've got all
the transcripts, you're only going to make your AIX percent
smart using the content that you have today.
And then the rest is going to come from real interactions and
people that went and asked the AI that unique question for the
first time. So the TEDIO analytics,
obviously the Gold Star for us is resolution rate, which is the
percentage of chats that are resolved without human
interaction. But what's really cool is
looking into conversations by intent, which is basically the
topic of these of these conversations.
So beyond knowing what people are asking, we can even group
them into kind of assigning A magnitude to the topic so you
can see exactly how popular certain topics were inside of
your AI. And like the major intention
when we built that analytic, it was for the AI.
It definitely wasn't to influence marketing teams.
Data is good for everyone regardless.
We were using it to understand where should we focus the most
time in regards to ongoing training of the AI agent and the
data sources. Because if yeah, if you get
10,000 people into the chat every month and 6000 people are
talking about the process of your subscription service and
that's what we knew to focus on content wise.
Right. Absolutely.
I do. I, I, I love doing SEO because
if you get the right marketing director or someone like the CEO
senior who gets behind it and gets the strategy.
It's like we're now chatting to the PR teams, the customer
service, the sales teams. We're talking to customers to
find out what they like, what they don't like.
We're talking to the tech teams about all the analytics like
e-mail, like no one is off limits to us because it all
influences the content on the front end for indexing on Google
to provide a good experience. And then we proved that good
experience. So the only other thing I'll
just wrap up on my SEO point about a customer service would
be you mentioned like how many resolved thing, you know, how
many things were resolved? It's, it's one thing for I think
a website just to say like excellent customer service.
And we actually ran a test on a site where we put excellent
customer service because it was and people spoke about it in the
reviews and we made an assumption that we tested.
And the assumption again, it's going to become a big part of
the podcast guys, is assumptions.
The assumption that we tested was people talk about it in
reviews, how great the customer service is.
And everyone's so lovely when they reach out to us as a brand
with my my client as a brand and talk to them.
We thought people cared. We put excellent customer
service in there, like header of the site, like excellent, but we
didn't prove it or anything. And we tried five star customer
service had no influence on conversion rate.
We did not get more people buying.
And then we took a step back and tried hypothesizing why?
Why? We not get more sales and one of
the things we think, and it's always the thing you think the
data tells you what's happened, not why or or or how the the
thing we think now is if we have to reassure people pre sale that
we've got good customer service, something's gone wrong.
So we're still in that grey box at the moment with that
particular client of going what's because like, it's not
it's not an expensive set of products they've got.
It's not something you would save up for loads.
Their Klana doesn't get used very often for the like buy now,
pay later. So we're still in that little
black box with the customer service one of going, what
content do we need to put in just to basically say we're
really nice people will will be reasonable.
And if something goes wrong, we'll fix it without going
things go wrong. So when they do, we'll fix it
because that's not a reassuring message.
So I think that that analytics engine and which is where AI is
so powerful, right? We give it a spreadsheet.
These are all the recent transcript chats to do with
delivery information. Tell me what we're missing or
write me some web copy that kind of summarizes all this to
reassure people that like our delivery is really good.
And, and the AI we, we put it to ChatGPT and said like these,
these are just 50 out of like 50,000 customers that have
complained about delivery. And that was it in that period
where we had 50,000 customers and the chat, ChatGPT came back
with all these like tag lines of like, you know, X percent, you
know, 99.9% customer satisfaction with our delivery
service. And I was like, OK, cool, people
are buying now. And I think it's really
interesting to kind of do that bit.
But AI is so good for that analytical bit, isn't it?
Sure. Well even like the teams I meet
with that don't have any chat in place.
It's also even interesting just to see not from the customer
support side of things, but from the pre sales side of things.
What's the first question one of your website visitors has when
they land on the site? And if you don't have a really
low friction channel for them to ask that question, you're not
going to know. But if you create, I've seen
strategies where people just say, hey, if you have any
questions, let us know. Type them right here in a chat.
And then, I mean, you have direct feedback from what these
people are actually curious and super, yeah, super cool.
And so I mean, using someone like TIDO or, you know, or an AI
bot in that situation to help make that sale to provide the
right information. How hard is it?
And this is a really loaded question that I'm sure guests
want me to ask. Do you ever find that in your
warehouse you have dead stock, you can't sell it, no one wants
to buy it and you can't get a refund on it.
Or alternatively, you're missing inventory in your warehouse that
you need, you've got sales coming in and you're low on
stock and you haven't ordered more stock in time, All these
things hit profit. And I've been there.
How hard is it to get an AI bot to a chat bot or something to
provide the information quickly on a web page?
Like say all the customer service agents are away and it's
like, you know, talk to our chat bot, we can help you.
How hard is it to get that balance of like factual
information, being salesy enough like you or I would in a pitch
to get someone to buy that product?
How do you how do you train the AI bot to to know enough of that
to be effective whilst maintaining that kind of brand
stability? Sure.
I some people are definitely in a better spot than others and
you've been talking a lot about SEO.
The sites that I click on and train the AI on that have a nice
effort put into the SEO. They really talk about their
services and why they are good at what they do.
They build credibility and talking about current use cases
or clients or testimonials and things like that.
Many times for like a well written, well built website,
that's enough. That is you, you've already put
in all the time and effort into figuring out how do we say what
we want to say that is compelling.
Most websites already have that. So the AI is just taking from
like the main influence on Lyro AI through Tidio at least is
about the data sources, what you train it on.
So if I answer every question with a credibility building
statement at the end of it, generally the AI is going to
pick up on that and and do that same kind of stuff.
So in that case, minutes, right, you've already done all the hard
work. Yeah, yeah, I think it's really
powerful as well. Just saying to AI like crawl the
site, grab any content you want from this site.
And but tell me if you think anything's like a bit odd or
doesn't align with the rest of the site.
Because we all, we've all got a page in our website somewhere
that says, hey, we give out free ice cream or something, but we
don't anymore. But someone's not deleted the
page. And but I mean, all of this,
we're talking a lot about the chat AI side.
How are customer expectations changing as a result of all
these changes and AI becoming more of a feature in the buying,
the buying journey, the buying cycle?
Sure. And I a lot, it's changing a lot
and I think it's a lot it's definitely due to more than just
how businesses are building their support stacks.
It's everywhere, right? Like students in university,
they're all using AI for their note taking, etcetera, etcetera.
A lot of people who find our business when I asked how'd you
find us, by the way, what were you looking at?
Well, I was talking to AI. So I think that beyond just
what's on your website and how you tailor your support team to
work with AI, they're already inevitably going to use it in
their Google search when it pops up that AI summary or when they
go to ChatGPT to find it. So the expectation of speed is
already like, well planted in their heads.
And I think that that's the big thing is going to be speed.
How's it? Yeah.
How's it changing the landscape? It's making everything way
faster. And the expectation is that you
should be fast. And maybe I'm the worst, like
I'm the worst customer because I know what is possible with AI.
So if I'm waiting for if you keep me waiting longer than 5
minutes and I'm trying to do something like change my
shipping address. Like I said, I'm the worst.
But I'm fuming because I'm just like, come on, you, you guys are
you do maybe millions in revenue every year and you couldn't put
in the basic, the most basic of tools to help me help myself at
midnight or whenever I'm on my phone doing doing my and.
The danger of all of that, that's the unquantifiable
annoyance of customers as I like to call it or I don't always
call it exactly that, but something similar.
But you get the idea that actually that that is
frustrating customers like you, but like there's no analytics is
going to tell you like, you know, Jacob's sitting at home
frustrated right now. So sometimes, and this is going
to go against the whole grain of my agency and what we do about
testing and data mining. There are some things you just
don't know. I sometimes say to clients, like
there, there is such a thing as just good and bad layouts, good
and bad design. And you can start to prove it
with heat maps and other stuff. So I think with that, you could
see like the exit rates of people that are waiting over 2
minutes for a response and go, all right, well, that becomes a
KPI. Our customer service team needs
to respond within two minutes. But all of this I just realised
one of my notes from an earlier question we didn't cover, but I
really do want to ask you about this because this is something
that we, we had a round table in the winning shop like growth hub
the other day. As I mentioned in my intro,
guys, go join it if you want. We were talking about AI.
We were actually supposed to be talking about e-mail content and
we end up talking a little about AI because AI creates a lot of
e-mail content. Now.
Then we had a separate session on AI with a separate group of
people as well, a separate group of brands, and both groups
shared a concern about privacy and giving AI access to
information. You guys, obviously to do what
you do, you are giving the AI and personal customer data
information, you're giving it sales information.
There's a lot of data in there. So how do you, I mean, to ask a
question about the tool? How do you, A, keep it compliant
and B, like there are obviously risks around that.
Like what should people be aware of when using AI and unleashing
it to their e-mail database, their Shopify data, and then
other similar tools? Sure.
I think a, a big thing that I always remind people is that,
and I can only speak to Lyro and and Tedio's, Tedio's product,
but it's never inventing or creating, right.
So it really only regurgitates what we tell.
It is the truth and it, it kind of looks at the whole truth as
what we've given it inside of the data sources.
I think I run into more barriers like customer customer barriers
around like trust and just preconceived ideas about AI and
what it can do. Can AI take a piece of private
information and do crazy malicious things with it?
Like, yeah, if someone, if someone built it to do that 100%
that that's possible. But in my experience, just on
the, the sales side of things, like we're, we're held to the
same standards as like maybe your, your CRM would be as far
as how compliant are you? How do you protect data and
privacy just as much as your CRM does, right?
And so I mean, and it's all SAS and all the SAS is so connected
together. So I think even tools that are
not directly exposed to customer data, they also people want to
see your SoC compliance, they want to know that you're, they,
they're asking us where our data is stored and etcetera,
etcetera. So no, it it, it feels extremely
direct, but it should be. I mean, yeah.
Absolutely and I think that one of the dangers that one of the
fears that came up as a danger from one of the brands and I
won't I won't show your names. It was a nice clothes safe space
and I get a lot of people say I couldn't make it.
Was it recorded? It's like no, no.
The idea of a round table was you have a seat at the table and
you share as much as you listen, which is fine.
Like, yeah, so there were, there were enough of them were running
another one just for those guys. But the the question, sorry, a
complete tangent, but the question was actually around
like, I'm nervous that if I had an AI bot rather than a customer
service Rep and someone said, Hey, I'm, you know, like I know
the neighbors 6 doors down and I know they order from this.
I'm going to pretend to be them and say I've lost my order
number. Like, how does, how do you make
sure that AI like doesn't share someone else's information in
the same way? I think it was Samsung, wasn't
it? They'd put some confidential
information into an open AI and then found out that like if you
just said, what did Samsung, Samsung ask yesterday about
this, this and this? It shared the IT said, oh, we're
asking about this and like shared the information because I
think it was chat GBC or open AI.
So it didn't know like not to share it.
It didn't know it was confidential, which obviously it
hit the headlines all across the world.
So like it's changed. But yeah, so just there is that
level of scarcity around AI. Isn't it that like how will it
know to share the correct information?
But you can build all those parameters in, can't you?
A. 100% Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's it's more, it's more
important than it even giving right answers.
I would say like when you, when you think about how we're
building it and what we're cautious about, I would say
there's more of a focus in ensuring number one, that like
data is completely siloed. A lot of customer data too.
It's, it's only referenced temporarily by the AI.
So it's not that it always has access to this value.
It's when it's right, right. It's like, oh, I can find that
for you. It finds it and then we have to
program in those, double check the e-mail, double check the
order ID, but we emailed you a code.
Can you use that kind of thing? So I mean it's yeah, similar
similar to any, I would say any customer facing automation or
platform or something like that, yeah.
I did. I had a funny issue with AI
recently and this is me using it like new chat every time I ask
it anything just like a classic AI kind of amateur.
And I asked the other day we run meet ups and we've in fact,
we've actually got a meet up in September if anyone's to come.
Molly are hosting us in London and Shopify brands.
If you're not unsure if you still come.
So we're running that and I said right, right, AI.
Here's all the information of the key points.
Write me an event description. And I copy and pasted it.
One of my teams, I said, Nick, you know, you like playing with
AI. Yeah, they said you've been
playing with AI again. It's like, yeah, why?
And they say you've obviously used it to write the
description. It's like, how do you know that?
And it's like, because it's on like, I think it's the 4th of
September, but it says the 6th everywhere.
I was like, where's it got the 6th from?
And I checked all the information I gave it went back
over the chair. I never told it the 6th.
I said it was the 4th and shared like part of the e-mail to say,
like, you know, look at this e-mail from Molly.
These will be information, information about the cocktails
that are going to be there and other stuff handled this
information in and it did and it even it said there was going to
be. I think it was like free hot
dogs and pizza. I was like, we never said hot
dogs and pizza. So like it had and I think it
was ChatGPT or manus I was using and it started making stuff up.
So I think I think the good thing that you guys are doing is
you're using a locked as you say, like it just does one
request and goes right, find this order in this list, grab
this information, then double check that, then pass it
through. Whereas I was asking to do an
open question of like write me a nice thing about this and it
gone. Oh, the 6th of September must be
nicer and pizza and and hot dogs sounds nicer because one of the
guys at Molly emailed me and said to Nick, we're not doing,
we haven't agreed what food we're doing yet.
And it's like, oh, if you could do pizza and hot dogs, it would
cheer up the AI bots because that's who said it.
So it is important, I think with AI that a lot of people go, if I
just get it say like, you know, write me a story, it will give
me an amazing story exactly as I want.
It's like, but you haven't given it any information.
I think that's where the process kind of comes in, doesn't it?
Yeah, yeah, people also like there's, it's so much deeper
than just a like a ChatGPT script as well, right.
And without getting like way into it, you know, they've done
all the studies. What's the best way to prompt
AI? And one of the big ways is by
creating kind of autonomously thinking agents that work
together, right? And you'll, and I don't know if
you've seen stuff like that, but we're, rather than writing a
script and telling the AI to act with a certain persona, you
create almost a board of directors, right?
So this one's responsible for finding the truth and having
data backed evidence for why it found the answer.
But Tideo has some that are just in charge of follow up
questions. And like the the e-mail AI,
there's an extra kind of additional mechanism that's
looking at is this, is this likely to end up in a multi
message conversation? And if yes, you know, then it,
it acts completely different. So yeah, I hear a lot of people
through that ask me that, you know, what's stopping me from
building my own AI? Like I use ChatGPT, I use
Claude, what's stopping me from going and programming in my own?
It doesn't seem that difficult. And I think that like your
experience that you just shared about how maybe there's one
extra line you could have wrote in that prompt to avoid that
hallucination. Or maybe there's you could have
5X to the length of that prompt to create additional personas in
that prompt to make sure that there was no hallucination.
That's what really, really high tech people, I guess, think
about versus like me and you, you know, the average end user
of AI. I'm not, I've played around with
image, not to go on a tangent, I've played around with image
generation and I just can't ever get it to work.
But it's because I don't know how to communicate effectively
to yeah, the model that's generating my image.
So. Yeah.
So, so that talk that that talk I did a couple of weeks ago, I,
I wanted to share a lot of information about a client, but
I was like, I know they won't let me use their name and I
don't want to use their name because I want to be really
honest about some of the conversations we had and the
assumptions we made. And actually some of their like
both the amazing great uplifts in revenue we found where we
didn't expect to and actually found out our customers are
really boring. They care about warranty, they
care about delivery prices. And and what they don't care
about is what we thought was like this beautiful website
design, like the more beautiful we made the website, the worse
the conversion rate was. They were like, I just, I want a
really good solid item. And it when we asked customers
what they said, when I look at the image, I can just see it.
And again, in that talk, because I wanted to share this
information about this client of ours, I just invented Janet's
Jumper Shop and just asked an AI give me an image of Janet's
Jumper shop. I was like, that guy's got three
arms. And this lady, she looks great,
but her shoulder is like inside this guy's chest.
And what have you done? And then I said, and now give me
a shot of the same guy. He's doing some number crunching
and they were just number crunching, but like suddenly
they were in the warehouse instead of the office and there
were balloons everywhere. And I was like, the balloons are
cool. So I used this like humorously
in the talk to say like, and look, this is what AI think
Janet's jumper shop looks like. How how much fun are these guys
having with their extra limbs? And this guy's got no chest, but
you know, and here they are doing the number crunching.
So you've got a number crunch guys, you need balloons.
And it was like just kind of as I went through the talk making
three points about this nameless client.
And it was quite fun actually, just kind of adding those bits
in. And, but I mean, AI, the guy's
moving at a rate of knots. Like as you say, like even what
you've just told me here, I'm sure everybody listening now is
going to go, I'm going to get it to Fact Check itself and 5X the
way it does tasks and stuff. That's important.
But where's AI going in your opinion?
And, and from a Tedio perspective, like 5 years, 10
years, I know it's so far away and that AI kind of, you know,
it's like a second lifetime of AI almost.
Yeah, that's a big question and I can, I can only guess based on
what I what I see. Get you back in five years to
see if you're right. So no pressure but.
Sure. Yeah, Yeah, I think speed in
general and like a big push that we're seeing is maybe at first
it was revolutionary if AI could answer a customer's question,
generic repeatable questions. And a couple weeks ago, we've
kind of pushed live globally the ability for the AI to
conversationally reference API endpoints.
And so there's just a fancy way of saying instead of telling me,
hey, to check your order status, step #1 log into your account,
step #2 do this where it is resolving my issue and telling
me how to help myself, Now it just checks it for me, right?
It just, it'll, it'll use that endpoint in order to check that
status. Yeah, immediately.
And I think that in the next 5 years also to beyond having the
AI connected to your systems, the systems are more connected
than ever as well. So I've seen what I would have,
you know, a year ago, I've seen use cases where, you know, a
year ago, yeah, I would have said that's, look, AI is really
cool and it's super powerful. But if I can't do things like
that. And now I'll give you an example
like a retention based use case where we are checking the
average customer value, we're checking the subscription tier
and we're checking how long they've been a customer in order
to determine how the AI is going to process churn attempt, right?
Whereas not that long ago we could not do, we could not do
things like that. So now it can can check like,
hey, this is a medium value customer.
They've been with our service for a year.
They're already on a discounted subscription.
So don't offer a discount, don't offer this program because it's
not relevant to their use case, etcetera, etcetera.
And then it's going down different resolution paths based
on, yeah, the, the information that's housed inside of the
subscription platform itself. So not even in the data sources
of the AI. And so I think that's that's
where all of this is going. Five years, though, would you
say 10 years? I mean, people aren't going to
type anymore. I can tell you that like it, the
AI is so fast that it'll probably take me twice as long
to type my question than it will for the AI to go reference a
bunch of values in the internal system, change my shipping
address, and then let me know it's been completed.
So I don't know where we get with that, right?
I see people doing cool stuff with like virtual agents.
A lot of people are interested in AI voice and things like
that. Yeah, yeah.
I'm less interested in. My car it's built into Audi now
so I just in my car. So if anyone was in the car
right now this might work. Hey, Audi, subscribe to winning
Shopify podcast and then ChatGPT might go and subscribe to the
podcast for you. And but yeah, I asked I asked it
a question today to show someone how rubbish the Audi AI like
chat feature was. It's rubbish like Siri, Alexa
and Google. So to show them and it came back
saying according to and the way it talks is rubbish still.
It was like very broken up, but it said according to ChatGPT.
I think we're asking what a macchiato was in a drive through
on the way to a client meeting at Starbucks.
So it was like, yeah, someone was like, what's a macchiato?
Like I see, I don't actually know.
I see Everest. We asked.
The AI was like 2 macchiatos please.
This sounds great. And it was, yeah, just asking a
little things like that to suddenly have it in the car.
But I've been chatting to ChatGPT a little bit and it, it
asks you way more questions when you talk to it.
When you type, you ask something and it gives it to you when you
talk. I don't know if it's ChatGPT
actually or Grok or manners. They're the three I've been
using the most. But I started having a
conversation with it. I'm pretty sure it's ChatGPT and
it start, I sort of said, you know, I need to get an outfit
ready for a wedding. And it was like, OK, what's your
relation to this person? What's the colour scheme of the
wedding? And started asking questions
like this is cool. Like, you know, asking, whereas
previously I would have to give it all of that, say all right
now based on it being a lilac themed wedding, what is the
colour code for that? I'm saying if my wife listens to
this, I'm saying really high expectations for this wedding.
We're going to in a few weeks and we've got a little, a little
baby who's only going to be sort of three or four months old.
That should be, yeah, three months.
So she's probably going to be sick on whatever I'm wearing.
So that's also a consideration. Something that doesn't absorb
sick would be amazing. But anyway, look, it's been
great to have you on. As I said right at the start,
guys, if you want to get 20% off, go to tidiotidio.com/WWS.
These guys are going to be around for a little while.
Jacob, I want to say a massive thank you for your time.
If people want to follow you guys on social or see what's
going along, and rather than just going to that landing page,
what are your social handles? How can people reach out to you?
Yeah, TIDIO, find us on LinkedIn, find us on YouTube if
you want to see back end of the actual platform.
And then I would recommend, yeah, everyone should go to the
forward slash WWS and actually see what it does with your own
information because everything's hypothetical until you plug in
your own information. And that's where you're going to
have the most aha moments. And that's, I should have said
right at the start as well, guys, that's, that's the part of
the free bit as well, isn't it? So as a free demo, they can plug
their information in and it can start telling them, I mean, tell
me more about it, what it can do and and how that kind of
process, that initial step, that free bit actually works.
Yeah, yeah. So it's, it's essentially you're
plugging in just your homepage URL or any URL that that you
want to really. And since customers don't read,
what the AI is doing is it's reading all of these sub URLs
and crawling the website for any text based content.
It is reading it. And then it's creating as many
QA pairs as it can possibly think of about that information
and allowing you to go into a playground and and test exactly
what that AI speaks like. So I would encourage anyone to
build it and then go try and break it, right.
If if you're worried about it hallucinating or answering
questions in a certain way, bring it on your own data and
and go see it for yourself. Yeah.
Cool, I'm certainly going to do that with a couple of my clients
sites and see what happens over the next next few days.
So if you want to see how that goes, guys, drop me an e-mail
and I'll let I'll let you know. But yeah, definitely check that
out. And again, you get 20% off
through us, which is really generous to these guys.
So titio.com/WWS and Jacob, a massive thank you for your time,
your energy, all your answers and giving up so much to come
and join us today. So thank you so much. 100% thank
you truly it was fun. Amazing.
And for everybody listening at home, hit that subscribe button.
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