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Hello and welcome to an episode 
the Winning Shop 5 podcast. 

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If you haven't tuned in before, 
grab a cup of tea. 

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It's time for Tuesday tea break 
talks. 

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I did an episode a few weeks ago
where I spoke about branding and

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a few of you guys said I got my 
whole marketing team in. 

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I had three emails about this, 
got my whole marketing team in 

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the room and said right listen 
to this and played it to them. 

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Which is quite scary in a way. 
Sometimes I forget how much 

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advice I'm giving and how many 
changes businesses make, but it 

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is based on nearly 20 years 
worth of expertise that I've 

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done in the industry. 
So I hope today is useful as 

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well. 
Following on that thread today 

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I'm going to talk about a metric
nobody talks about and most 

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marketing teams I talk to don't 
have a goal for this or a 

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measurement before. 
For that, I'm going to get up on

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the screen in front of me. 
We have a webinar coming up with

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the lovely folk at Tatcloud and 
also the guys from Saguno. 

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There's going to be a webinar on
the 26th of February. 

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It is at 4:00 PM London time. 
I will be hosting it, which will

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be, let's check on Google 
quickly. 4:00 PM London in New 

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York is Dun Dun, Dun Dun Dun. 
It will be 11 AM New York time 

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and for those in LA time to get 
up early gang. 

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It's going to be at 8 Amla time.
How exciting the webinar. 

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It's all about the hidden 
threats that might be costing 

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you big again. 
I'll be hosting and these guys 

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are going to do some amazing 
talks. 

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It is free to sign up. 
We will put a link in the 

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description below. 
It'll probably be on lots of our

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newsletters. 
Shameless plug go join the 

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newsletter, and now I can kick 
off today's episode. 

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How exciting is going to be a 
good webinar though make sure 

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you guys do come along, but we 
are going to be talking about 

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the thing that nobody talks 
about. 

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So these are some of the metrics
the brands talk about all the 

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time. 
And you, if you haven't heard of

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all of these, you might not 
heard of the last one, You 

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haven't heard of the first four.
Where on earth have you been? 

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You must be new to this. 
So first one is profit, gross 

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and net profit. 
Businesses want to make profit. 

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The second one is ROI, sometimes
known as ROAS, which is 

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basically I'm putting money into
advertising. 

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How much money am I getting 
back? 

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ROI is return on investments. 
That could apply to anything 

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you're spending money on. 
I'm investing some money. 

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What is the return? 
How much money am I making back?

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Am I making again? 
Back to first one, profit row as

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a specific return on ad spend 
some spending money on adverts. 

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How many sales am I making on my
Shopify store? 

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The third one is just revenue. 
We want the revenue to grow. 

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Some companies set revenue 
targets. 

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I think they're silly, but 
that's fine. 

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We'll just talk about that 
quickly. 

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I can't just brush over that. 
So the reason I think they're 

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silly is because, and I used to 
do this, I used to make these 

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big elaborate business plans and
I'd spend most of December 

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making a business plan. 
And then I got this guy, Sean, 

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who's an advisor to me, who has 
been there and done it for many,

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many years. 
Mr. Sean Varga, he's an 

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absolutely legend. 
He's basically retired, but so 

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experienced in the agency game. 
And he was like, we did that for

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him and he was like to have a 
plan. 

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And he said, surely the plan is 
get as much as possible. 

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And actually the way we do plans
now are not annual, they're just

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whenever we need them. 
It's like, is what we doing 

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right now working, is it not? 
And let's pivot the plan. 

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And then the plan normally, 
normally is more tactical and 

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strategic than just we want to 
double our revenue or go up 10% 

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revenue this year or whatever, 
whatever that might be. 

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So how exciting? 
So revenue is 1 you could be 

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looking at another one could be 
conversion rate we're driving, 

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there's traffic insights, 
increased conversion rate, not a

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bad thing. 
And the final one, I'm going to 

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quick tip a tee, see if you can 
read out out loud what this is. 

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EBITDA. 
This is normally reference when 

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you're selling a business. 
And, and I should say I've got a

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stinking cold. 
I don't know if I said that 

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star, my brain's not really 
braining this morning. 

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Yeah, I've got a stinking cold. 
So I'll be drinking a lot of 

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tea. 
And if I start sneezing, it's 

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because I've got a stinking 
cold. 

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The UK, we export a lot of 
things and one thing we export 

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in massive great quantities is 
the common cold. 

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I am going abroad later this 
week just for a day to go and 

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see a client, which would be 
really fun. 

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Anyway. 
EBITDA, earnings before 

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interest, tax, depreciation, 
amortization and rent or 

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restructuring costs. 
It's kind of how they value a 

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business sort of multiple of 
that per year. 

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So that sounds like a really 
good list, Nick, by running 

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businesses for decades, what is 
missing from this? 

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I'll tell you what's missing and
a chat Leant over to me and said

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this at a dinner I hosted last 
week. 

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It was a lovely dinner and we 
had the lovely Mamas and Papas. 

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One of our clients, the very 
well known here in the UK had 

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lovely Sammy from Mamas and 
Papas joining us and she was 

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brilliant little talk and stuff.
And someone went over and said, 

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Nick, do you know what's 
missing? 

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Most businesses, they don't seem
to set a goal or metric for drum

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roll, please, lifetime value. 
Like it's not probably not a new

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metric to you, but lifetime 
value. 

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I don't actually think I've ever
heard a team say we have a goal 

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of increasing lifetime value by 
X per quarter, per half year, 

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per year or in five years. 
We need our lifetime value to go

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up by double or triple or 
whatever the, the metric might 

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be. 
Which got me thinking, it's a 

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very, very good point. 
I've never heard anyone actually

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talk about that. 
But then let's, let's pull this 

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apart. 
And, and the reason I might not 

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have heard this and the reason 
what I say I might have is I 

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don't hear marketing teams talk 
about this at all. 

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But one of the reasons might be 
that I work in acquisition. 

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So we run SEOPPC for businesses.
We spend millions every month on

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it on Google and Meta and Bing 
and lots of other places. 

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So maybe we just don't get 
access to that because because 

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we're on the customer 
acquisition side. 

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But then that's not true because
I look at GA 4 and Shopify 

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Analytics and I can see that the
work we do on SEMPPC for 

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businesses drives minimum 50% 
through those two channels, the 

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whole business, some businesses 
over 90%. 

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So clearly if even if there is 
an LTV goal, it's not being 

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achieved because it needs to go 
up, say lifetime value, LTV is 

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what we're going to call it. 
So statistically it's the, and 

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I've made lots of notes on this,
it is often the cheapest thing 

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to influence. 
Marketing teams should get this.

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And sorry if I've thrown one 
under the bus, especially in my 

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own clients with this, but we'll
break this down a little bit. 

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I think marketing teams actually
should be judged on this. 

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So the acquisition point is 
really cool and it's important 

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we've got to acquire new 
customers, but actually we 

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should be judging marketing and 
probably products as well and 

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some of the other areas, maybe 
packaging on lifetime value. 

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There's acquisition and there's 
lifetime value. 

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You should have two targets for 
each of them. 

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So we normally have an ROI of 
like here's our entire marketing

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budget. 
What's the business turnover? 

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Actually, we should split that 
business turnover, what was 

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recurring business and what is 
net new business and the ROI and

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ROI is again, I'm saying a lot 
of scary things today. 

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So it's going to make my job 
harder as well. 

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If any of my clients are 
listening, which I know some of 

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you are, because then you say, 
hey, Nick mentioned this, my 

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team are like, did he? 
And it causes, causes a good 

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challenge, always a good 
challenge. 

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But I think that the, yeah, I 
think one of the one of the 

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things we need to think about 
here is actually what is the 

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target for lifetime value. 
So I'm going to break this down 

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statistically. 
And if you've noticed as well, 

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it was so dark a minute ago when
I hit record and now the sun's 

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come out. 
So it's all suddenly got really,

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really light in this room. 
And welcome to British weather 

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folks in February. 
How exciting. 

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Let's do some maths. 
So a business has, well, Shopify

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store has an average order 
value. 

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You can write it down if you 
want an average order value of 

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$100. 
So write that down. 

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Average order value $100. 
And LTVI didn't even look at 

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what stats people might track 
LTV in, but I've used a decimal 

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place so I've said imagine the 
LTV of this business, $100 

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average order value and the 
lifetime value is 1.2. 

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So that means we get 1.2 sales 
per customer. 

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Some people then wrongly, 
wrongly I think, look at this 

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and go, oh, so 20% of our 
customers buy a second time. 

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And it's like, no, because some 
people buy 3 * 4 * 5 times. 

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But on average, every time we 
get a sale, we get 20% more 

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revenue than that from later 
sales from those customers. 

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Again, some of them might buy 10
times, some of them might buy 

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just once. 
And so that means you could say 

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if the AOV is $100, the lifetime
value is 1.2, we're making 

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$120.00 per customer lifetime. 
Or it might be another way to 

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look at this, maybe is annual, 
and annual could be a good way 

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to look at that. 
But let's just go lifetime at 

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this stage. 
The lifetime value of a customer

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is $120.00. 
And then we generally never, 

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never see or hear from them 
again. 

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So second bit of data then. 
So we got $100 AOV 1.2 lifetime 

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value. 
Every customer's worth $120.00. 

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Let's say we've got 10,000 
transactions a year. 

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Deliberately chose something. 
It starts with A1 and then just 

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has zeros. 
Keep it simple. 

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So let's say we've got 10,000 
transactions a year. 

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That means if you do the extra 
$20, we're getting $20 times by 

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200. 
Sorry, sorry, times by 110,000. 

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I think I've got a cold start 
that again. 

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So the $20 you're getting on the
post first purchase, the $20 by 

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customer average times that, by 
the 10,000 transactions that 

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we're getting, on average, we 
get, well, 10,000. 

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Sorry, in new customer 
transactions, we're getting 

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around £200,000 a year from 
second or or more orders from 

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customers, from repeat 
purchases. 

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Therefore, this is where the 
genius bit comes in. 

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If I said that 1.2 lifetime 
value, we need to increase from 

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1.2 to 1.3, you might go, all 
right, we'll send, we'll send 

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one better e-mail every month, 
one better e-mail and we can 

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increase it to 1.3. 
Your revenue's just gone up by 

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100 KA year. 
You're now getting 10% more 

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revenue per oh, sorry, sorry. 
That's basically the average 

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order value. 
But you're getting at this point

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just under 10% more revenue per 
customer. 

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So you see suddenly it's like 
that 200 K we're getting from 

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from second or third or fourth 
orders that 200 grand from 

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recurring orders or a a future 
order from existing customer. 

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Suddenly it's gone up to 300 K 
and we've only increased the LTV

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from 1.2 to 1.3. 
So advertising for a new 

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customer could cost you $3050, 
even more than that to get that 

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£100 average order value per 
customer. 

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So 2nd order, it's got to be 
cheaper, right? 

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We, we got to look at this 
thing. 

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So I think the homework here, 
and I'm going to comment on some

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of the ways we can do this. 
The homework has got to be we 

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need to set our marketing teams 
or set our business AKPI, that 

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is lifetime value increase. 
We need to work out how we're 

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going to measure it and we need 
to start increasing that and 

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then work out what our channels 
are going to be. 

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I'm just going to have a quick 
sip of tea and then talk about 

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some of the ways, tactics and 
strategies you could use to do 

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this. 
Such a sore throat. 

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So how do we do it? 
Big question, how are we going 

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to increase that lifetime value 
from 1.2 to one point 31.41.5? 

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The first thing is check out a 
thing in Shopify called the 

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customer cohort analysis. 
It is one of my favorite graphs 

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in Shopify and I do have quite a
few. 

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Thanks for asking. 
But check out the customer 

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00:10:27,680 --> 00:10:30,160
cohort analysis. 
It's blue and it shows you 

224
00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,880
everyone who's done a first sale
and then it has months all the 

225
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,360
way across and months down. 
So it will tell you that in 

226
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:37,840
September, everyone who bought 
in September, I'll tell you what

227
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:41,080
percentage people bought again 
in September, how many people 

228
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,880
bought one month later, two 
months later, three months 

229
00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:44,600
later, four months later, 
etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 

230
00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,520
And what you tend to find is 
this diagonal dark blue patch. 

231
00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,520
It's got this blue conditional 
formatting, conditional 

232
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,720
colouring on it and darker. 
The more sales you had that in 

233
00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:57,040
that period and or that point 
for that from that month that it

234
00:10:57,040 --> 00:10:59,000
happened. 
Customer cohort analysis, it'll 

235
00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:01,040
make sense when you look at it. 
But you find this kind of 

236
00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:03,200
diagonal dark blue when it comes
to peak. 

237
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,120
So when you hit sort of 
November, December time, there's

238
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this diagonal dark blue through 
the whole chart saying people 

239
00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,520
that bought in January bought 
again in air November, December 

240
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,000
because there was a discount and
that kind of thing. 

241
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,880
So customer code analysis will 
give you a bit of an idea. 

242
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,640
And what you can also do is you 
can create a report in Shopify 

243
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,520
and this Shopify's a place to do
it because you need it done at 

244
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,200
customer customer level. 
Do it in Shopify where you 

245
00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,160
create a report that is how many
sales and how much revenue have 

246
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,720
we made per customer. 
Nice and simple. 

247
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,160
I got five ways that I again 
looking at existing customers 

248
00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:38,440
and asking existing clients of 
us and asking them of the last 

249
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,840
few days, how do you increase 
lifetime value or how have you 

250
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:44,240
done it at your current brand, 
previous brands you've worked at

251
00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:48,560
etcetera, etcetera. 
The first one is creating a post

252
00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:53,320
purchase e-mail flow. 
This won't sound dramatic when I

253
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,720
say it, but when I tell you that
over 80% of brands that I've 

254
00:11:57,720 --> 00:12:00,720
bought from in the last 12 
months, because I checked this 

255
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,960
before this call, 80% of brands 
I've bought from did not have a 

256
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,440
post purchase flow at all. 
I was just on their normal 

257
00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,520
newsletter. 
There was no sort of you've 

258
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:11,920
bought this product, has it 
arrived? 

259
00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,400
Can you leave us a review and 
then can you do this? 

260
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:15,000
And then you want to have a look
at this and you want to watch 

261
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:17,600
our brand video and have you 
followed us on socials yet? 

262
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,320
Only 20% of them had any kind of
follow up. 

263
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:22,840
I mean a lot of them, again, 
I've got newsletters, but most 

264
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,400
of them didn't have a follow up 
relating at all to the purchase 

265
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:28,720
I made. 
The data around the purchase I 

266
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,360
made is invaluable and it 
probably cost you lots of money 

267
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:33,680
to get me to buy in the 1st 
place. 

268
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:37,000
And that's the point here around
the acquisition cost versus 

269
00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,640
getting that repeat order or 
getting that second order or, 

270
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,680
or, or or or something else. 
Every e-mail in this post 

271
00:12:43,680 --> 00:12:47,120
purchase flow, in my opinion, 
should have at least two 

272
00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,440
versions. 
So you should be AB testing 

273
00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,360
every single e-mail that goes 
out. 

274
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:53,680
And if you're not getting any 
sales from any of them, start 

275
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:55,280
off with the clicks. 
This one's getting people 

276
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,040
clicking through and engaging 
with the website as a result of 

277
00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:01,160
seeing that e-mail. 
Build a flow, make it work, see 

278
00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:05,440
which works best, and always be 
testing those emails #2 offer 

279
00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:06,360
AI. 
Love this one. 

280
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,880
It's so simple and I'm going to 
give you some again, some 

281
00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,280
numbers on how to work this one 
out. 

282
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:16,840
So offer a time sensitive offer.
So you got to buy this in the 

283
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,400
next 7 days or thanks for buying
from us. 

284
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,160
You've now got 30 days to use 
your buy again discount code. 

285
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:26,400
We found out from Saguno last 
year from a massive project. 

286
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,600
They did a massive number 
crunch. 

287
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,400
If you sun's probably come out 
now, how exciting you see how 

288
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:32,680
distracted I am today. 
But Saguno did an enormous 

289
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:36,520
report that outlines that if you
use customized or bespoke or 

290
00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,560
unique discount codes to the 
customer or to the offer, you're

291
00:13:40,560 --> 00:13:41,760
much more likely to get a 
conversion. 

292
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:45,120
If you just say like repeat 10 
and give them 10% off or $10 off

293
00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:47,600
or something, you're going to 
get way less people buying from 

294
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,480
you. 
Then if you use a better code, 

295
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,080
which is like my name's Nick, 
put Nick in the code, you know, 

296
00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,920
Nick 10 March saying it's going 
to end in March or even put my 

297
00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,920
name and the date the code runs 
out. 

298
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,600
And now that post purchase 
e-mail flow I mentioned in the 

299
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,440
first point, you've now got some
content to put in that. 

300
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,640
But the maths, it's cheaper than
running ads to send an e-mail. 

301
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:10,760
If you double the amount of 
emails you were doing right now 

302
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:13,400
and double the amount of sales 
you're getting on e-mail, how 

303
00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:15,680
much more would that cost you? 
Probably next to nothing, 

304
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,160
certainly compared to the 
traffic cost of paying what, a 

305
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:21,400
dollar, $2.00? 
Five dollars, $10 per click. 

306
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:24,160
We have some clients that 
literally pay over 50 lbs, which

307
00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:27,560
would be about $65 per click. 
That's how much money they're 

308
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,160
making. 
That sounds like an expensive 

309
00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:31,200
click, but it's really cheap 
when you look at the economics. 

310
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,400
So if you give a customer 10% 
off and their average order, 

311
00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,880
your average order value is 
$100, using go back to those 

312
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,640
metrics, it's costing you $10 to
get a sale. 

313
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,120
It's a 12:50 ROI on that second 
order. 

314
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,440
If that then builds a habit and 
they come back and buy two or 

315
00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:49,840
three more times without you 
having to really nudge it too 

316
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,040
much, they're just in a habit 
now buying from you, then the 

317
00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,400
ROI is infinite. 
If they buy three times after 

318
00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,720
that one e-mail, you've got 30 
to one ROI on giving them $10 

319
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,400
off Genius. 
It's so and it's so simple. 

320
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,480
It's so simple. 
But again, it's the creative on 

321
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:05,800
the e-mail. 
It's going to be the complicated

322
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,320
bit. 
So #2 is offer a time sensitive 

323
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,720
offer or notification #3 love 
this one. 

324
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,600
Clearly, and this is what I 
didn't get from 80% of those 

325
00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:17,320
people I bought from clearly 
outline the complementary 

326
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,120
products that they need. 
Let's think of a product I've 

327
00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:24,360
bought recently. 
Say I got a new car last year, 

328
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,360
which I'm very, very proud of. 
And I love my new car. 

329
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,880
It's excellent. 
And for my new car, I wanted to 

330
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:33,160
get an umbrella for the car. 
And so I bought an umbrella for 

331
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,000
the car. 
And then I started getting 

332
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,520
notifications saying would I 
like to buy some wellies as 

333
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,120
well? 
And then I got asked to post 

334
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,640
purchase survey. 
So I did it and they said where,

335
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,960
what's this umbrella for? 
And I said to put it in my car. 

336
00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:47,480
And then they started sending me
phone holders and other 

337
00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,360
accessories at the same brand 
sold for the car. 

338
00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,000
And I thought it was really 
smart that as soon as I told 

339
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,000
them I bought it for my car, 
they started sending me that 

340
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:58,280
different stuff or different 
offers and different products 

341
00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:00,000
they're recommending. 
And I did actually go back and 

342
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:02,440
buy a phone holder from them as 
well because I told them that 

343
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:05,160
the umbrella was for my car. 
But you wouldn't have known if 

344
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,160
you didn't ask. 
So again, part of that post 

345
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:10,800
purchase e-mail flow could be a 
purchase survey and using AI now

346
00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,560
as well. 
You don't need to ask multiple 

347
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,200
choice questions to get good 
data. 

348
00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,720
Just say to them, please write 
in this box where you use this 

349
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,800
product, where you store it and 
what's it for And then use AI to

350
00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:24,640
go ask AI based on all of the 
answers to this question, what 

351
00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,240
are the most common places 
people use this product? 

352
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:30,520
And then you can create some AI 
within your e-mail platform 

353
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,640
probably that says, anyone who 
says any of these words, start 

354
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,000
recommending products or find 
products that use some of those 

355
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,640
keywords from our site, start 
recommending those. 

356
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,080
But then there's a question, 
isn't there? 

357
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:45,520
So 3B is what happens if we just
sell one product and once you've

358
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,920
got it, you kind of got it. 
Now, this is a very, very smart 

359
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:50,400
idea, I think. 
And it's something lots of my 

360
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,560
clients have done. 
The best and smartest ideas were

361
00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,480
not mine. 
Say, this is one I've nicked 

362
00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:56,320
from many, many clients that 
have done it loads before. 

363
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,320
Do a collaboration with the 
brands that do sell a 

364
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,240
complimentary product. 
And most importantly, don't sell

365
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:06,880
your product. 
Sorry, having a lot of sip of 

366
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,040
tea, very dry throat. 
So find a brand that sell a 

367
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,800
complementary product to yours 
and do an e-mail swap. 

368
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,119
Swap e-mail databases with them.
Or rather than swapping emails 

369
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:18,680
because of GDPR and other stuff,
which I'm going to talk about 

370
00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,319
loads in a few weeks. 
I should have told you about 

371
00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:23,079
that very, very exciting 
episode, coming up with a very 

372
00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:24,359
special guest and recording it 
next week. 

373
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,960
How exciting. 
And we're going to be quoting it

374
00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:28,400
a lot. 
But find another brand. 

375
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:31,400
So instead of swapping e-mail 
addresses, maybe to send an 

376
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:35,000
e-mail out to your database from
you featuring their products and

377
00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,760
again an offer from them and you
do the same to their e-mail 

378
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,880
database. 
I, I've seen some incredible 

379
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,640
results off the back of this. 
And what you really doing long 

380
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:43,800
term? 
You're getting a load of cheap 

381
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,800
orders in. 
We're having to pay out, having 

382
00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,320
to pay the advertising cost. 
Just get them in the door, get 

383
00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,000
more products being sold, get 
more revenue in. 

384
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,800
You can then use those customers
to do more surveys, get more 

385
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:54,440
reviews. 
That helps the bigger wider like

386
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,440
SEO machine and and PPC machine 
work harder #4 On our list of 

387
00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:04,000
five is the product consumable. 
This is where honestly I I see 

388
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:05,840
so many brands getting this 
totally wrong. 

389
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:11,400
A consumable product, coffee, 
healthcare supplements that 

390
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,280
people sell, glucose gels is one
of them. 

391
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,080
Toothpaste, All this sort of 
stuff runs out right? 

392
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,840
So obviously you need to offer a
post purchase subscription if 

393
00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:24,960
they haven't subscribed and test
when test what the right 

394
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,480
creative on the e-mail is, like 
I said earlier, or SMS or 

395
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,160
WhatsApp if you've got access to
do that with your customers. 

396
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,600
But also you need to test the 
timing of this thing. 

397
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,440
When is the perfect time for 
somebody to buy one of these 

398
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,040
products and then need another 
one? 

399
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,920
So ask your customers. 
The more you talk to a customer,

400
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:44,440
the more they engage with, the 
more they're just going to go 

401
00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:46,200
and buy without you having to do
any of the complicated stuff. 

402
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:50,720
It's about building a 
relationship and the the more 

403
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,000
you build that relationship, the
more people will just come back 

404
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:54,840
to your site and start 
purchasing. 

405
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:57,840
All of the cables suddenly 
appeared by the screen. 

406
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,480
How bizarre. 
There we go, we're back. 

407
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,760
But anyway, so the, if your 
product is consumable, there's 

408
00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:06,040
such an opportunity to then talk
about post purchase 

409
00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,440
subscriptions, refills, 
upgrades, and also if you 

410
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,440
release a new model of whatever 
you've sold, whether it's 

411
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:15,880
consumable or not, if you 
release a new model, there's a 

412
00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,440
whole story. 
Start talking to, about talking 

413
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,680
to people about this. 
The other thing you could start 

414
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,040
offering and even just start 
selling them on eBay yourself or

415
00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:24,880
something is actually a recycle 
program. 

416
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:27,360
So you could say to people, you 
can recycle your old device, 

417
00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:31,040
sell it to us and, and we'll 
give you a discount on your new 

418
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:32,960
one. 
I, I know of AT shirt company 

419
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,680
that does that and they very, 
very successful. 

420
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:38,040
They give 5 lbs every time 
somebody sends AT shirt back in 

421
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:41,360
and you can use that as credit 
on their website and they reuse 

422
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:46,360
all the cotton which is amazing.
Anyway, final point, loyalty, so

423
00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,480
many brands have loyalty points 
and you get no emails about them

424
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,520
whatsoever. 
If you sent me an e-mail saying 

425
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,120
hey, you got some loyalty points
and if you spend £50 more you 

426
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:58,640
can have, you'll have enough to 
buy a free product. 

427
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,080
Well, that's two orders now that
I'm going to be making and we're

428
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:02,640
trying to increase this LTV 
aren't we? 

429
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,400
So you're going to get more 
orders from doing that. 

430
00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:07,840
Loyalty points on their first 
purchase, encourage them to 

431
00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:10,600
spend these or even earn more of
them to then get a bigger 

432
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,840
purchase later. 
Like that example I just gave. 

433
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:14,960
I think something really. 
Interesting about loyalty points

434
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,840
that we've tested on a few 
clients as well as sometimes 

435
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,880
it's better not to display the 
loyalty points on the products. 

436
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:23,080
It's actually better just to go,
you want to buy this product, 

437
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,520
buy this product and people go 
and buy the product and 

438
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,360
afterwards you say, hey, you've,
you've earned 100 loyalty points

439
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,600
buying that product. 
They're worth £10 or $10. 

440
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,760
And actually you can then go and
spend those on your next 

441
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,120
purchase. 
You can save them up. 

442
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,880
And again, it's such a good 
talking point where instead of 

443
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,200
just sending random newsletters 
out saying like, hey, these 

444
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,600
green Gantt jumpers are on offer
right now, which I'm wearing 

445
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,640
today, actually, you can just 
say, well, you've bought that 

446
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:48,880
product recently. 
You should buy this. 

447
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,000
And actually, or almost like 
click here to get a customized 

448
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,360
view of all the products on the 
website, taking into account how

449
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,960
much loyalty bonus you've got. 
I booked a hotel recently and I 

450
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,360
was thinking these hotels are 
cheap. 

451
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,320
This is amazing. 
And realised it automatically 

452
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:06,160
applied my like loyalty bonus on
the hotel booking site. 

453
00:21:06,360 --> 00:21:08,640
It already applied that loyalty.
And I was like, great. 

454
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,320
I didn't even know I had, oh, I 
knew I had something. 

455
00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:12,600
I didn't know it was that much. 
Yeah, If I go, if actually if I 

456
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,360
go and stay at one of these 
hotels on this list, now I'm 

457
00:21:15,360 --> 00:21:17,520
going to get this discount, 
which is fantastic. 

458
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,160
So those are five ways you can 
start to increase that LTV. 

459
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:27,040
Get that 1.2 up to 1.41 point 8.
Imagine, for example, if you got

460
00:21:27,120 --> 00:21:29,760
three orders from every single 
customer now instead of just 

461
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:31,960
one. 
That's four times, sorry, three 

462
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,640
times as much revenue as you 
would have got if you didn't do 

463
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,680
that at all. 
So much cheaper than 

464
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:38,360
advertising. 
And there's so many businesses 

465
00:21:38,360 --> 00:21:40,200
to just rely on Google Ads all 
day, all day. 

466
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,440
And don't get me wrong, Google 
Ads is what I do, is what I'm 

467
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,400
doing for nearly 20 years. 
I love Google Ads. 

468
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,240
I know almost every single 
button there is to click in 

469
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,840
Google Ads, but if brands are 
going to get LTV off the back of

470
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:52,200
that and get repeat orders, we 
can spend more on Google Ads. 

471
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,600
Acquiring those guys makes you 
more competitive and it means 

472
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:58,440
you can scale your business 
faster whilst making a profit. 

473
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:04,680
Final thought from me, how do 
you really really start to win 

474
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,800
on LTV? 
More than just the best e-mail, 

475
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,720
the best loyalty bonus, or 
something simple and kind of 

476
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,720
cheap and easy like that. 
How do you really start to win? 

477
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,160
I would work backwards, almost 
do like reverse marketing and 

478
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,320
go, OK, someone's just made 
their 10th order or 12th order, 

479
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,800
They're ordering every month 
from us. 

480
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,760
Let's work backwards now to then
decide what our initial 

481
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,800
advertising needs to say and do 
and how it needs to operate to 

482
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,720
make that whole journey happen. 
But working backwards, going so 

483
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:34,320
they're on a subscription, 
they've been on a subscription 

484
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,520
for a year. 
How did that subscription start?

485
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,240
Is it going to be from the 
moment we meet them? 

486
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,680
The moment we don't meet them, I
want to give an example of a 

487
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:43,320
collectible coin client we 
worked with years ago. 

488
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,080
And these guys in terms of ROI, 
these guys absolutely crushed 

489
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:48,960
it. 
And on Google Ads, we had a 

490
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,440
negative ROI. 
We lost money running Google 

491
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,280
Ads, one of the most profitable 
clients I've ever, ever worked 

492
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,320
with. 
So these guys sold sold 

493
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:01,760
collectible coins and the first 
coin would be solid silver or 

494
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:06,640
gold plated and get this as a 
marketing campaign it was free. 

495
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:11,240
You could buy a free solid 
silver coin worth 20-50 a 100 

496
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:16,040
lbs and it was free. 
All you have to do is pay £2.50 

497
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,040
for postage and packaging. 
These guys were producing so 

498
00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,200
many of these coins they were 
happy to give 2030% of them away

499
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,200
for free to sell the rest of 
them. 

500
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,240
Really really smart. 
So you pay £2.50 as a customer 

501
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,880
to keep postage and packaging. 
All their advertising said it's 

502
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,840
a free coin, £2.50 postage 
packaging and it's made of solid

503
00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:35,240
silver. 
For example, when the coin 

504
00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:40,560
arrives, it's in a set of 578 
coins that you can collect and 

505
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,160
obviously all the slots are 
empty apart from the one that 

506
00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,240
you've bought. 
Now their Tele sales call, call,

507
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:47,880
call team. 
The Tele sales team would phone 

508
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:51,240
you up, told you to cold and my 
brains a bit mushy. 

509
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,000
They'll phone you up and they'll
say, hey, you've got the first 

510
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,520
from the set. 
Do you want to subscribe? 

511
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,280
And actually you can set up a 
weekly, fortnightly or monthly 

512
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,680
subscription for 2030 lbs or 
whatever it costs per coin, and 

513
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:03,320
we'll just send the rest of 
these coins out. 

514
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,000
Once that set's finished, they 
call you and say, hey, you're 

515
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,200
obviously a coin collector 
because we did our targeting 

516
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:11,560
right in the 1st place and we 
hooked you in with this free 

517
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:12,520
offer. 
And you're like, I'm a coin 

518
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:14,200
collector, why would I not take 
this free coin? 

519
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,040
And now like, yeah, actually now
I can see the quality of 

520
00:24:16,040 --> 00:24:18,280
product. 
It's in this really cool holder.

521
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:20,000
And I have them and they're 
going to put me in a glass 

522
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,920
cabinet on the wall. 
I'll put them with the rest of 

523
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,000
my coins. 
Lots of coin collectors in the 

524
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,440
world. 
And now you're finished that 

525
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,480
first set. 
Would you like to keep the 

526
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,920
direct debit going? 
And we'll just send the next one

527
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:32,880
out and it'll have two coins in 
skin. 

528
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,440
First one's free or you can 
upgrade. 

529
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,080
Instead of doing a silver set, 
you could do a gold set. 

530
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,680
Or actually, do you want to talk
about some of our like £10,000 

531
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:43,680
Roman collectible coins? 
You know what kind of coin 

532
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:45,680
collector are you? 
And they have a conversation on 

533
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:47,880
the phone, they collect this 
information and it was called 

534
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,000
silver. 
If we upgraded them to their 

535
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,720
second set, it was called gold. 
If we upgrade them to 1/3 set 

536
00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,080
and if they became a coin 
collector, we called it 

537
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,360
platinum. 
So we even use names internally 

538
00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,520
that reflected the product 
because the products are made of

539
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,920
silver, gold, platinum. 
Really, really cool. 

540
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,920
I hope it's been useful. 
You guys need to get more sales 

541
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,840
from recurring orders from 
existing customers. 

542
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:09,880
So expensive to get them in the 
first place. 

543
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,120
So you've got to get as much as 
you can from them. 

544
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,160
Join our webinar in the next 
couple of weeks. 

545
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,440
And yeah, hopefully I'm feeling 
better by the next episode, 

546
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:20,200
which should be out on Friday. 
I don't know what's in the diary

547
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,320
this week. 
I haven't really got that far 

548
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:23,400
yet, but we should have another 
episode out this Friday on the 

549
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,160
show with a guest as well. 
So thanks for tuning in. 

550
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,120
If you want to talk about any 
more of this stuff, drop us an 

551
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:28,800
e-mail. 
Hello at winningwoodshopify.com.

552
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,600
And also someone asked me about 
this the other day and it's not.

553
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,600
I don't normally plug the agency
too much, but if you do want 

554
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:36,800
help with your SEO and PPC, do 
reach out to us. 

555
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:41,160
It's spec SPEC dot digital, spec
dot digital, reach out to us. 

556
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,040
We can help with PPCSEO. 
We do have minimum spends and 

557
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,160
minimum retainers. 
If you're a scaling brand and 

558
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:47,800
you've hit a shelf, you're 
perfect. 

559
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,080
We can really help you grow. 
Thanks, tuning in guys. 

560
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:51,720
Back again on Friday. 
Hope you an amazing week.