1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,320 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,440 I was like, OK, how, how do I do this? 3 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,480 My dad, I think I, I learned a lot with him since I was little. 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:08,960 He was always like trying to make money. 5 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:10,960 He was always like, you know, hustling, hustling, hustling. 6 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,240 There are so many brands trying to do what you're doing very 7 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:15,600 effectively. Choose your heart. 8 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,320 Everything is hard. Becoming a Blogger is hard. 9 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,640 Like being an entrepreneur is hard, so having a job is hard. 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,120 Like just choose yours, right? The nature of a trend is it's 11 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,280 here now and it's definitely going to be gone very soon. 12 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,600 I've been using Shopify since I was 21 in college so. 13 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:29,440 You're one of the early, early adopters there. 14 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:31,360 No, I do. I remember that like for so 15 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,040 long. Sometimes people ask me, like 16 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:34,040 you said, well, where do you want to go? 17 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:39,240 I'm like the moon. Our partners at Saguna released 18 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,800 a brand new app for Shopify and it's called Shopify Connect 4 19 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:44,880 Canva. You can essentially look at all 20 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,920 of your product images from Shopify directly in Canva and 21 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,280 export them straight back. This can save you a lot of time. 22 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:53,520 If you want to find out a bit more about this or go and find 23 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,120 the app yourself, you can go to saguna.com/canva. 24 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:03,280 Enjoy. So, Isabella, welcome to the 25 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,120 show. Hi, how are you? 26 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:07,480 I'm good, Isabella. How you doing? 27 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,480 You well. Good. 28 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:09,840 I'm great. Thank you so much for the 29 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:10,760 invite. Good. 30 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:11,640 Good. Well, it's a pleasure to have 31 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,760 you on and everybody tuning in is going to be like, right 32 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,720 Isabelle, not heard of you, not seen the brand before. 33 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:17,760 So why don't you start off by giving us a give us a little bit 34 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,680 of an overview to your background and a little bit 35 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,400 about the business and the Shopify store and how you got 36 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,120 started in the first place. So I basically started years 37 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:27,800 ago. I wasn't sophomore year. 38 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,840 I started a brand with my friend. 39 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:31,760 We used to sell bikinis At that point. 40 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:33,960 It was a completely different business. 41 00:01:33,960 --> 00:01:35,320 It was a completely different market. 42 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:37,280 I would say everything was completely different. 43 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,160 But The thing is that, you know, that that was kind of like my, 44 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,200 my first business and when I got the experience I needed like for 45 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:48,240 the brand today, eventually Akalia started by the end of 46 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,800 2020, right after right when COVID was happening. 47 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,280 And I think it was kind of a breakthrough. 48 00:01:54,280 --> 00:01:56,560 You know, we were like all at home, you know, we were like, I 49 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,800 will, I still have my 9:00 to 5:00 and all of that. 50 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,880 So basically I already had like all this experience from college 51 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:08,039 that I was selling student suits with my friend and we used to 52 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:11,080 sell, you know, mom and pop like smaller stores and things like 53 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,080 that. So then eventually what I did is 54 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,480 that I took that experience and I started cold calling small 55 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,600 stores to kind of do some kind of wholesale orders. 56 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:20,920 I was not selling bikinis anymore. 57 00:02:20,920 --> 00:02:24,040 I was selling clothing. So, you know, everything was a 58 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,440 little bit different. So yeah, that's kind of like 59 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,720 where I started. It was I, I, I just, I can just 60 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:35,440 say that I started like renting a small storage space. 61 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,680 I think it was like $50.00 a month or something to put, to 62 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,840 put like to put like all of my merchandise there because I was 63 00:02:42,840 --> 00:02:45,000 working at the time at this company. 64 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,320 So for me, it was impossible to of course, like fulfill my 65 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,880 orders. So what I was doing is basically 66 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,040 I paid this girl that she was an Uber driver to go there every 67 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:58,320 like 2 days in a week to pack my orders and ship them. 68 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:02,640 So that was kind of like my first warehouse if we're going 69 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:06,200 to say anything fancy. No, I. 70 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,200 Don't know you just grafted it at the start though because I 71 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,880 mean $50.00 for a warehouse space, cold calling companies to 72 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,720 try and get get stock or provide stock and they're getting an 73 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,040 Uber driver to take the stock to get it all delivered as well. 74 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,240 I know it was so funny because I was like, OK, how do I do this? 75 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:22,960 Because I cannot. I was, I was sleeping super late 76 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,240 because I was coming from work and I was like packing orders. 77 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:29,360 So because at that time, I remember I got approach, this 78 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,680 lines were like very cool. And I got approach from this 79 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,960 retailer back in the days and it was Wolf and Badger and yeah, I 80 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,600 love them actually. And, and yes. 81 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,120 And so they, they, they wanted to work with me at that time. 82 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,960 And I do remember that I started getting like international 83 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,320 orders and that thing was going through DHL, right? 84 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:50,640 And I was like, how do I like, leave my office and go to like 85 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:52,120 DHL? You know, I cannot say that I'm 86 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,560 sick. So one day I was just inside of 87 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,000 a, an Uber and the girl was super nice to me. 88 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:02,120 I hope she sees this podcast. And she was, she was, she was 89 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,480 like, oh, what do you do? I'm like, well, I have my job. 90 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:07,920 I also started my rent and I was like, Hey, do you, do you want 91 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:09,720 to like work for me? And she was like, wait, what I 92 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,960 do, I'm like, I'll just pay you like $7.00 per order. 93 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:15,880 And you know, you can just like, pack them like every Tuesday and 94 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,839 Thursday and just ship them. That was my frozen plea. 95 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,000 Wow so so good. I I mean if she is watching then 96 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:24,600 I hope. I hope you enjoy this. 97 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,760 Because hopefully a trip. Down memory lane for both of you 98 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:29,200 guys. I, I love the way you bootstrap 99 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,560 though, and I'll be honest, I've had a quick look at the business 100 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,920 on your website and stuff before obviously recording this, this 101 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,160 interview, but I, it doesn't look like that at all. 102 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:39,600 Mal, I mean, tell us where you are today because it's, I mean 103 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,880 it looks like a really like amazing High Street fashion, you 104 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,920 know, like luxury retail business and tell us about where 105 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,600 you are today and and how you've got there. 106 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,040 Well, you're talking about bootstrapping. 107 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,920 That's essentially what I did. It was so funny because at some 108 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:55,600 point it, yeah, I was, I was using my savings right. 109 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:58,800 But like, at some point even my family was like, do you need 110 00:04:58,800 --> 00:04:59,920 help? Do you need anything? 111 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:01,480 I see you like struggling, whatever. 112 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:03,360 Like, no, no, I'm good. I'm good. 113 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:06,520 But my, my, my dad, I think I, I learned a lot with him since I 114 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:08,360 was little. He was always like trying to 115 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:09,880 make money. He was always like, you know, 116 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,720 hustling, hustling, hustling. And here, you know, we come, you 117 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,560 know, it's, I always see my family like work a lot and 118 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,920 things like that. And he gave me like a lot of 119 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,160 good advice. And then one of the advices was 120 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,120 like, don't get credit lines. You're going to look at like, 121 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:25,480 it's going to be a problem for you. 122 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,520 I'm like, how do I do this? Like without like credit lines? 123 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:30,520 How do I need to use that in my favor? 124 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,200 And, and I remember that I got like this credit lines and I 125 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,360 didn't tell anybody. I was like, I, I don't know what 126 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,280 I'm doing, but like, you know, whatever, I think it's going to 127 00:05:38,280 --> 00:05:40,360 work out. And I eventually, you know, I 128 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,600 started using credit lines. I was not profitable for the 129 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:45,640 first years at all. You know, I wasn't reinvesting, 130 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,520 but then I, I knocked every single door I could. 131 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,280 And then eventually I got into Macy's, which is a department 132 00:05:53,280 --> 00:05:57,040 store. And yeah, so basically after 133 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:01,240 that, I was, you know, by the end of, by the beginning of 134 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,640 2022, more or less, I was more, a little bit more able to like 135 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:09,000 leave my, my full time. And yeah, that's, that's how, 136 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,800 how I went from like that to what it what is today. 137 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,760 But I'm, I'm a such a high achiever. 138 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,560 I mean, I'm, I'm in a position today where I'm comfortable, but 139 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:20,400 I'm like, I want more, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. 140 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,600 Absolutely. I mean mate, Macy's is cool. 141 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:25,600 I, I somehow shop at Macy's from the UK if I'm sending to 142 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,960 anything to people in the US, it's one of the only places you 143 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,520 can actually use AUK like credit or debit card to buy things in 144 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,560 the US and all the US sites you need to use AUS card. 145 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,200 So I know Macy's quite well. Yeah, I mean, that's absolutely 146 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:38,920 amazing. Like you obviously got a Shopify 147 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,840 store as well. When did you launch the Shopify 148 00:06:40,840 --> 00:06:41,840 store? Like how long have you been 149 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:44,720 running that for? I've been using Shopify since I 150 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,160 was 21 in college so. You're one of the early, early 151 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,360 adopters there in. All I do remember that like for 152 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:55,680 so long yeah, Shopify I think is the best one, especially when 153 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,040 you're starting off. You need to well, I did a lot of 154 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,160 like little fairs and things like that. 155 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,880 And I do remember like using my, my, my shop before my Shopify. 156 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,400 I mean the app itself on my phone and charging people. 157 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,160 So it's so easy to use. You don't need to it's not 158 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:14,920 rocket science or whatsoever. An app login is like super easy. 159 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,400 You can even even like tax wise, it can help you like calculate 160 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,960 everything for accountant. You know, it's it's I think the 161 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,840 interface is just beautiful. It's perfect. 162 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,920 And I think it's getting better with the date, with any, you 163 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,320 know, with time. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, 164 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,240 absolutely. Now I mentioned earlier and I 165 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:32,600 can't remember if it was before or after I hit the record 166 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,600 button, so I'll say it again. You guys, obviously you're 167 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,680 positioned as a really nice kind of, I would say kind of middle 168 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,520 to high end sort of fashion retail brands. 169 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,160 Yeah. What are some of the key 170 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,720 principles to stand out in that industry? 171 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,120 And the reason I ask this question is there are so many 172 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,280 brands trying to do what you're doing very effectively. 173 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:54,120 How do you stand out? How do you create USPS? 174 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,120 How do you create a unique experience and people shop with 175 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:58,760 you, not anybody else. Like I know it's not easy, but 176 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:00,040 what were some of the key steps for you? 177 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:03,120 Look, if if I was to start in the fashion industry today, I 178 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,440 would think about it because I think it's very hard. 179 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:07,400 But you know, I always say like choose your heart. 180 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,120 Everything is hard. Becoming a Blogger is hard. 181 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:10,440 Like being an entrepreneur is hard. 182 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,080 So having a job is hard. Like just choose yours, right? 183 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:17,880 So, but like what happens is that, at least for me, I think 184 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:22,600 that you need to invest in your products so much, sometimes more 185 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,680 than in your marketing. You know, because you can have 186 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,200 like the most beautiful website, the most beautiful customer 187 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,080 experience, like the most beautiful branding and having 188 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:33,720 this amazing influencer promote you. 189 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,080 If the product is not quality in the long run, you're not going 190 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,320 to get anywhere. So I think we sent out because 191 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:44,400 of two things, quality first and second one is the idea that when 192 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:47,440 you buy from us, you're actually empowering some charities 193 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,440 because we work with some charities around the way. 194 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,560 So we're always, you know, this year we work with the big dog, 195 00:08:55,680 --> 00:08:59,520 small dog ranch in, in the US. We were part of this beautiful 196 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,280 gala. You know, before when I started 197 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,320 the brand, I was working with the Red Cross in Venezuela. 198 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:08,760 So you know, it's really, it's, it's really like that idea of 199 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,000 giving back. And also it's limited edition 200 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:14,440 collections, meaning that we don't master those we're so 201 00:09:14,440 --> 00:09:16,560 fashion. So essentially what happens is 202 00:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,240 that the same dress, you won't find it in an art collection 203 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,000 exactly the same, you know, it's just a limited quantity. 204 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:27,240 So it's not like you're going to a fast fashion brand and going 205 00:09:27,240 --> 00:09:29,200 across the street and there's going to be 5 girls with the 206 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:32,800 same dress. So that's basically what set us 207 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:34,680 apart. And also we have like pretty 208 00:09:34,680 --> 00:09:36,440 cool things and perks on the website. 209 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,240 Like if you shop from us, we have it's free express domestic 210 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,240 shipping. We also have a very cute 211 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:45,760 packaging. We also expanded to waterproof 212 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,520 fashion jewelry, which is a basically fashion jewelry pieces 213 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:51,640 that you can go on the water with them. 214 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,800 We can go on the on the sun with them and things like that. 215 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,560 And it won't get it, won't it? Really sells to your customer as 216 00:09:58,560 --> 00:09:59,720 well. I mean, that's what a customer 217 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:01,400 wants to be all the time is in the sun, yeah. 218 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:03,080 Yeah, yeah, for sure. Amazing. 219 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,120 I mean, I absolutely love that. So I'm writing notes on this 220 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,360 because I think these are some really cool key principles for 221 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,360 business. So quality products, helping 222 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,240 charity, helping charities by making a purchase in this thing. 223 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,200 Limited edition. I want to talk about that a 224 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,840 little bit more in a SEC because I love that. 225 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,120 I think that's a really unique thing. 226 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,480 Free express delivery, waterproof jewelry, which 227 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:22,480 waterproof jewelry, I'd almost separate from those and say 228 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:24,840 that's a bit more. That's like an execution of 229 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:26,920 products, which is really the key, which relates to this 230 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,440 point. Limited edition though, I, I 231 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:31,360 think that's really powerful in this day and age. 232 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:33,960 We, we work with a client who they, they only make the product 233 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,920 when you order it and it will arrive in two to three days. 234 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,720 So like literally two days after you order products there. 235 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,840 But we only make it when you order because we are, we 236 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,160 basically just got tons and tons of material here. 237 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,800 And when you place the order, we actually use the material to 238 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:50,160 make stuff. And I love that kind of 0 waste 239 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,360 having the limited, limited edition, though, that must open 240 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:56,080 up so many doors for you guys with marketing to say that we've 241 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,000 just done another drop or whatever you guys call them 242 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,800 internally. But you know, this is a, there's 243 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:01,880 a new range that's out. You can only get it from us and 244 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,280 it is limited edition again. So when it's gone, it's gone. 245 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,800 It must create a bit of urgency amongst your customers to go, 246 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,080 oh, I love this range on the e-mail, the SMS message or the 247 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,920 advert they see. This drives us in that that must 248 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:15,520 be really powerful for you guys. Yeah, no, it actually help us, 249 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,880 believe it or not. It actually help us with that, 250 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:19,840 like with the end consumer, but it also help us with the 251 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:22,840 retailers because retailers understood that we're not like 252 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,560 selling to everybody. So we're like, oh, this is nice. 253 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:27,640 This is exclusive. It's not like you're gonna like 254 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:31,400 find it everywhere. Actually that was that was one 255 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:38,040 of the main reasons why we lost Macy's at some point because I 256 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,840 think it's completely normal for a brand to evolve, right. 257 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,520 So at the beginning, I didn't have the money to invest that 258 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,880 much in the product like I do today. 259 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,760 So what happens is that the product was a little bit like 260 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,760 average quality kind of thing. I was starting off, starting off 261 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,120 quote, UN quote. And then I start off like years 262 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:01,120 ago. But at the same time the price, 263 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,040 it was like a little bit lower and everything. 264 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:07,240 So it came to a point that we lost that clientele because the 265 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:09,960 price was higher and we're offering something limited, 266 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:12,200 something that it was hard to like find. 267 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,840 So, but funny enough, the day we caught like the the Condor with 268 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:19,920 Macy's, that same day Sax came in. 269 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,400 So, you know, I always, I'm always the kind of person that I 270 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:27,360 think like, look, when a door like closes 2 windows open, you 271 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,760 know? And so, yeah, going back to your 272 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,840 question, that part of the limited edition has helped us 273 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,400 with the end consumer, but also with retailers. 274 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,800 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And obviously all of that, 275 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,840 whether it's limited edition or whether it's just a normal range 276 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,040 or whatever. You mentioned quality of product 277 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:47,880 as well and some of our listeners, and I know this 278 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,880 because I used to be like this myself and just ordering from 279 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:54,040 like a factory in China going that design's cool, let's order 280 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:56,000 in and try and sell it. It's a really simple process. 281 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:58,160 I understand that's not what you guys do. 282 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,800 Is it like talk us through the design process. 283 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,480 How do you guys go from right? We, we want to create a new 284 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,680 range, a new limited edition product or a range of products. 285 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,680 What's your design process to actually get that into in front 286 00:13:08,680 --> 00:13:10,600 of a customer? Well, I'm definitely not the 287 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,800 designer itself. I don't know how to design 288 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:14,280 because I didn't go to fashion school. 289 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:19,160 But I'm a numbers person and I do have people in house that we 290 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,680 work with us through the design process. 291 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,200 Funny enough, there's something inside me that tells me what is 292 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,040 going to sell and what is not. And sometimes you don't need to 293 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,000 reinvent the wheel because what happens is that when you try to 294 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,800 reinvent the wheel too much, there's, there's not a market 295 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,400 for that. People, people don't, don't 296 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,520 dress like certain ways in every kind of city. 297 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,760 For example, right now I live in Florida, here in Miami, my 298 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,520 customer is not in Miami, for example, you know, my customer 299 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,360 is in our places. So what I'm saying is that you 300 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,880 need to really like be very focused of one thing is what is 301 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,880 beautiful for you. The other thing is what is going 302 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:56,000 to sell. So you need to be like in the, 303 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:57,840 in the middle, in the middle of those two. 304 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,280 And the other thing that we recommend any kind of person 305 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,520 starting in the fashion industry is that don't compete with 306 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,400 trends. Like if you compete with trends, 307 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,640 we're competing with a fashion Nova. 308 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:07,760 We're competing with like anybody that's like fast 309 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,160 fashion. If you're competing with a Zara, 310 00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:13,640 like if you if you compete with those big players, you're gonna 311 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:17,320 get screwed because they get new merchandise every five days and 312 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,600 everything is like super fast and you know, lower prices. 313 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:24,640 You need to have like a core for your collections and some DNA to 314 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:27,600 your brand, in my case is Blazers, Blazers and beautiful 315 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,640 dresses. So work around that, but don't 316 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:35,000 try to like reinvent the wheel and just like, oh, right now, I 317 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:36,760 don't know, like skinny jeans are a trend. 318 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,560 I'm going to like come up with skinny jeans like everybody else 319 00:14:39,560 --> 00:14:42,880 is doing that so. I think with trends as well, I 320 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,240 think you're absolutely right, because the nature of a trend is 321 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,200 it's here now and it's definitely going to be gone very 322 00:14:47,200 --> 00:15:34,960 soon. So it's like in terms of what 323 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:37,800 you were saying earlier about limited edition products. 324 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,640 The good thing is then there's a bit of a fight amongst customers 325 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,720 to like get it quickly and get the right size and the right 326 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:45,760 design before though before that limited range is gone and gone 327 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,760 forever. Whereas, yeah, obviously with 328 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,200 the fast fashion world, it's like if you order on trends and 329 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:55,120 you sell maybe 60 or 70% of them, that's great. 330 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:57,800 But then the trends now gone, so you've got all this stock that 331 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,360 nobody wants. Like what do you do with it 332 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:01,000 next? Because you've already paid for 333 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:02,280 it. So even if you reuse the 334 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,360 materials, it's like we're now we're paying again in staff 335 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,800 costs, transport costs, you know, maybe stitching costs and 336 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,560 other stuff and machines to actually reuse the products as 337 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:13,160 well. Like, whereas I love what you're 338 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:14,440 doing. So you must end up with very, 339 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,800 very little waste actually in the warehouse and the you buy. 340 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,200 It's so funny the other day we were actually counting what was 341 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,800 like leftover in the, we work with like many warehouses we're 342 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,560 leftover so we can do like a sample or something similar. 343 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:31,800 And there was not much and this has been like that since we 344 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:33,760 started. But it's simply because of that. 345 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:37,160 Unfortunately you cannot, it's very hard to compete with those. 346 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,920 It's they have a huge demand and a lot of these brands they also 347 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,360 have like big numbers investment in the back backing them up on 348 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,360 my case. So, you know, I need to be very 349 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:49,600 smart to where I put my money at. 350 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:52,080 Yeah, absolutely. And I guess the other thing as 351 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:54,120 well is if you if you were to start trying to go against one 352 00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,800 of these big players, like in advertising or something, they 353 00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,480 they can just completely dwarf you and whatever you're whatever 354 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,560 messaging you're using, they could upgrade their messaging to 355 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,160 go, yeah, you don't want this style anymore, you want this 356 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,119 one. And they're basically just 357 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:06,960 saying don't buy from you, buy from us. 358 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,800 And they've got way more, way more purchasing power for media 359 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,920 and advertising space and that kind of thing, which obviously 360 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,920 is going to hurt you a lot. Tell me about completely hear 361 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,520 you. But in terms of marketing then 362 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,319 say obviously a lot of the stuff you sell is sold through 363 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,040 wholesale through other retailers. 364 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:25,640 What percentage do you do kind of online versus stuff you sell 365 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:27,040 to wholesale? Like do you have quite a lot of 366 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,720 direct loyal customers or is it mostly through stores people buy 367 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,400 or is it a combination of the? Two, I want, I want the other 368 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,080 way around because the acquisition cost of getting 369 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:40,320 customers in the US is very high and I couldn't put like all my 370 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,240 money into like Facebook ads campaigns and like marketing 371 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,520 campaigns to sell to the end. It's more expensive here, by the 372 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,960 way, in the UK it's more. Expensive than. 373 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,960 USA, yeah. US is cheap for us, yeah. 374 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,200 Funny enough, what I did is that I kind of like went backwards. 375 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,680 So what I did is that I started like contacting retailers and 376 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,400 cold calling and going to trade shows because I saw there was 377 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,880 easiest that was kind of the easier to get like volume orders 378 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,120 and instead of like trying to get like 1 to one consumer. 379 00:18:08,440 --> 00:18:10,400 So I kind of like did it like the other way around. 380 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:12,560 Usually like people when they have like fashion brands or 381 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,240 product based brands, they try to go to the end consumer first. 382 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,720 I did the other way around because for me it was it's what 383 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:19,600 makes sense. I needed volume and I needed 384 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,920 like margins. So that was kind of like the 385 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,760 thing and eventually that way, you know, when the retailers 386 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:30,520 trust you, it, you know, it's like a domino effect that people 387 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,480 like start trusting it again. Amazing, amazing. 388 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:35,560 And a lot of brands do that as well because obviously if you 389 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:39,440 sold 50,000 lines or something to a retailer one year trying to 390 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,400 sell as you say 50,000 products, paying Facebook or Google like 391 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,160 30-40 dollars a time, if you got it really lean like it's a lot 392 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:48,560 more money. Obviously on the flip side and I 393 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,720 guess more of your long term strategy now that you've got 394 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,600 more of those retail relationships is to do more 395 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:55,640 direct because then you do own the customer journey. 396 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:57,840 Yeah, it's beautiful. When you own the customer 397 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,320 journey, it's beautiful, but it's nice not either. 398 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,440 Yeah, yeah. We, we work with so many brands 399 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,000 that have gone, yeah, if started with wholesale and then they 400 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,840 come to us going, right. We need to do customer 401 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:08,920 acquisition, we need to do it lean and we need a really good 402 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:11,160 lifetime value because we know we're not going to make profit 403 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,120 on that first order from them. So we know we're going to have 404 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,800 to get 2nd, 3rd, 4th orders, which is, is what you're talking 405 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,800 about, isn't it, is that you got, you own the customer so you 406 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,240 can do that lifetime value. And they're now only shopping on 407 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:22,000 your store. They're not going on Macy's and 408 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,280 seeing like 20 different brands on there and deciding between 409 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,760 the 20 and you're 1 of 20 now. So you're obviously going to 410 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:30,000 lose out and but obviously, certainly with wholesalers, I've 411 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,600 found over the years that social media is such an important part 412 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,920 of everything you do. I know even calling it social 413 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,680 media sounds a bit old school, but having a good presence on 414 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,320 Instagram, TikTok, Facebook. Have you guys approached that 415 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,200 over the years? And and how important has that 416 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,960 been to wholesale versus your own site and your own brands 417 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,080 kind of direct customer relationships? 418 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,400 So at the beginning of the brand, I would say that interim 419 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,920 was like a very easy space to navigate organic posts, you 420 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,120 know, perform. I'm not saying to the days I was 421 00:19:59,120 --> 00:20:00,960 in performance, you know, the space has changed a little bit 422 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:01,640 more. It's not the same. 423 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:04,760 Yeah. And the the influencer, the 424 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,920 influencer space was less saturated when it is today. 425 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,160 Like today everybody's is just a influencer. 426 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,320 So it came to a point that we were using PR agencies to get 427 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,240 like placements with like this very beautiful influencers that 428 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,640 have like a bunch of followers and only like I would say like 429 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:24,520 10% were converting. So it was like. 430 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,360 What is happening? So there's that's what I say to 431 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,400 other kind of entrepreneurs. There's a huge difference 432 00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:34,800 between brand awareness and marketing and converting them to 433 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:39,160 sales, not the same. And I would say even to so then 434 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,840 we started shifting the strategy to only micro influencers, which 435 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,520 was a little bit easier and it actually converted to sales. 436 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:50,400 So that was better. But right now we and well, and 437 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:54,520 then what we did eventually this is that Vogue and Glamour 438 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,560 magazine and things like that started contacting us. 439 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,720 So eventually put our efforts into that and to get like 440 00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:02,600 placements and magazines and things like that because at the 441 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:06,680 very end you also need that. But yeah, I mean, that's my take 442 00:21:06,680 --> 00:21:07,920 away. And influencers, I think these 443 00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:10,360 days, unfortunately, the market is so saturated that it's way 444 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,920 better to have a 10K influencer that has your exact niche and 445 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,560 your exact consumer and your buyer persona than having a 446 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:20,880 person that has like, I don't know, a million followers is 447 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,560 only men. And just because she's posting 448 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,400 picking bikini pictures to give you an example, and it's not 449 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,920 even your target, she's not gonna converge for you. 450 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,320 So I think, yeah, especially these days, I think people is 451 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:38,800 like way less and less loyal to them because some of these 452 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,880 people, they promote anything that is free for them. 453 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,680 So you know it's a hard space to navigate. 454 00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:48,240 Yeah, I'm quite well connected in travel influences especially 455 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:50,200 and I've, I've certainly seen some of that where they, they've 456 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,360 got like a good following and now they just go on travelling 457 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:54,240 trips around the world and they get given clothing to go with 458 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,240 them and that sort of stuff. When you look at their 459 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,160 followings, it's, it's not who you think it is. 460 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,800 Like I, I, I think quite a lot of the, yeah, quite a lot of 461 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,640 brands I talked to is doing exactly what you're doing. 462 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,960 If anyone wants any support with micro influencers, by the way, a 463 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:10,800 fluent or one of our sponsors. So check, check out a link on 464 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,960 our website, wwspodcast.com, because those guys, they're 465 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:15,840 really good at helping you find micro influencers. 466 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:18,240 They plug into Shopify or you can just use it direct on their 467 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:19,800 site. But it's exactly what you're 468 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,320 describing. And we've had Brett on the show, 469 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,320 the CEO a few times and he talks a lot about saying actually, why 470 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,960 don't you just start with like 3 or 4 and find those exact 471 00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,480 niches. If you sent 3 or 4 products out 472 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,080 to people and one of them worked, it's like great, you've 473 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,920 now found someone and you can work with them and invest in 474 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,640 them long time. You can start paying them for 475 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:38,960 posts if you, you know whether you pay them or not the first 476 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,280 time and start actually investing and growing with them. 477 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:44,120 And then you can end up with growing with like 5 or 10 or 20 478 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:45,720 and start as you say, building that niche. 479 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,520 Because even 10,000 followers, if 1000 of them are engaged and 480 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,360 they are potential customers for you, that's 1000 potential 481 00:22:52,360 --> 00:22:54,320 customers, 1000 products you could sell every. 482 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,760 What totally agree with you and it's a really good model. 483 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:58,400 Yeah. And what also has worked for us 484 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,000 very well is affiliate links, too. 485 00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,120 So they basically get a Commission out of the sale. 486 00:23:03,120 --> 00:23:05,680 So it makes it easier to also, you know, engage them. 487 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:07,680 Yeah, yeah. So we're the let's talk about 488 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,120 affiliates for a second because quite often when we say 489 00:23:10,120 --> 00:23:12,720 affiliate links, a lot of people then think like OK, cash back 490 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:14,440 websites and stuff. Oh, no, no, no, no. 491 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:16,720 Yeah, I was going to say, so talk us through what is your 492 00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,680 affiliate strategy because I'm assuming it's not that, it must 493 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:20,720 be way more, no. Essentially, essentially what 494 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:23,520 happens is that we have some creators that want to work with 495 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,240 us and we definitely have like a base and everything for them. 496 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:28,440 They choose a product and everything. 497 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:32,920 We craft the campaign, but the campaign itself has a check out 498 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,080 link with a special code that makes this affiliate itself like 499 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,880 basically get part of the revenue from that order. 500 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,400 So we split percentages in commissions and they get paid 501 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,520 through PayPal essentially. Which is what I was expecting 502 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:48,040 you to say because yeah, sometimes when I talk about 503 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:49,960 affiliate marketing, certainly to our clients, they immediately 504 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,320 sort of say like, Oh my gosh, we don't want to be on a cash back 505 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:54,280 website. I'm like, that's not that's one, 506 00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:55,320 that's. One type of. 507 00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,240 Affiliate agreement. But yeah, they're, but what 508 00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,040 you're, what you're talking about is influencers who are 509 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,960 going to then have an affiliate agreement or as you say, content 510 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,080 creators. So they'll create some content, 511 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,720 they drive traffic to your site and they get a referral kickback 512 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,240 of anything that's sold, which is cool. 513 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:09,960 And I guess you're probably quite a good or quite an 514 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,280 attractive option to them because your products. 515 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,600 So there's enough margin in the products that even 5 or 10%, I 516 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,280 don't know what, you don't have to tell us what you charge, but 517 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,200 even even a small percentage of the total product is still a 518 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,120 good amount of money for them. That actually if they get 5 519 00:24:23,120 --> 00:24:25,640 orders from one post or one creative or one campaign or 520 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:27,560 something, it starts to pay them a bit of money, doesn't it? 521 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:29,840 When you guys have got some good sales and you own that customer 522 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:31,560 direct. So it's a nice win, win. 523 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Yeah, actually, we're going to work soon within a company that 524 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,560 they actually work with like more affiliates like that. 525 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,520 So yeah, I, I guess, but I think in these days in this economy 526 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,320 and everything I think is one of the best ways to drive less 527 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,200 traffic. Yeah. 528 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:48,040 Yeah. And now something else. 529 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,720 You guys do that, I think a little bit more unique than just 530 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,760 a standard, like come to our website and buy something is 531 00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,200 around community. Yeah. 532 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,560 And obviously customers today, I mean, customer demands. 533 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,160 You talk about how long you've been in business. 534 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,800 I've been in this industry and e-commerce for about sort of 535 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,000 1617 years now. And one of the things I've seen 536 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,560 is back in the day, if you just sold a product online, when I 537 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,400 first started in Gig Lads, if you sold a product online, I 538 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,040 could run an advertising campaign for you and people 539 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:13,440 would just buy it. It'd be like you'd be one of 540 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:15,680 three options. The game's changed and people 541 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,280 want to feel like they're part of a brand, part of a community, 542 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,200 part of. You mentioned charity partners 543 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:21,720 earlier as well. Like I think all of these things 544 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,480 are really compelling, but how do you guys as a brand, as you 545 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,760 build that community, how do you make customers feel welcome and 546 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,040 loved by buying from your sites or from your from your brand? 547 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,720 Again, all of my marketing, what is the name, all of my marketing 548 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,880 towards the beginning of of of the brand was kind of like non 549 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,880 existent budget because they didn't have it. 550 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,680 But but what happened? Yeah, but what happened is that 551 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,760 eventually you start, even if you do like small influencers, 552 00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:52,320 small placements or whatever it is always, always, always, 553 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,520 always aim to the target that you want to be in. 554 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:59,200 Like it doesn't matter how many, how many likes or how many 555 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:03,520 people is looking at this creator or whatever, just make 556 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,640 sure that she has your buyer persona as a friend. 557 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:08,720 They're following them. So things like that. 558 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,640 And also with the charities itself or the philanthropy we're 559 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,160 doing, we also try to partner with things that resonate with 560 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:17,760 the brand. So that's kind of like the way 561 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:19,480 we're engaging consumers in that sense. 562 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:21,280 Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. 563 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,080 I certainly say sorry to yeah, yeah, no, yeah, no. 564 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,840 So I forgot to say something. Even when you purchase any kind 565 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,520 of pieces on the label itself and the hand tag shows that 566 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,640 we're collaborating, like why us all of that? 567 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,200 So that of course makes you sense of belonging. 568 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,080 And that must help you convert more because someone goes OK by 569 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,960 buying this item. With someone else somewhere has 570 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,480 benefited yeah for. Sure, yeah, which makes you go 571 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:45,680 like, right, I need to buy another item. 572 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,400 Well, you know, I felt really good actually helping someone by 573 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,880 buying a new outfit, like, and it's like it's a really good win 574 00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,280 win, I think. And and certainly one of the 575 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,960 things I've seen brands really fall down before is when they 576 00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,640 try to do like the kind of goodwill or help the planet or 577 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,920 help some people out or do something with charities. 578 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:03,840 They've almost just gone, I would say very like cliche. 579 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,880 And it's like, right, let's let's get plastic out the ocean 580 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,560 and let's plant trees or carbon offset or something. 581 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,240 And like, it's cool, but as you say, it doesn't resonate with 582 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,280 your brands. If your brand is fashion 583 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,480 actually saying that by buying this item, we're giving an item 584 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,720 of clothing to somebody else or something like that. 585 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,400 It's way more relatable. I can't remember the brand. 586 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,480 Is it? Is it TomTom or Crock or 587 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,960 somebody? Toms the yeah, the shoes. 588 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,560 Toms. Yeah, yeah, Toms. 589 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:30,840 Yeah. So they gave a pair of shoes to 590 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,000 somebody in a third world country that needed it every 591 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,120 time you bought 1. And it's like has such a good 592 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:38,240 thing to do and also from Tom's point of view as well, like to 593 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,440 deliver like 10,000 shoes to one location and a charity to give 594 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:44,160 them out. That was that was probably the 595 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,280 same as I think I read somewhere it cost them about 1/3 of what 596 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,320 it did just to send one item to somebody in the UK or the US or 597 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,000 someone around Europe. So it actually cost them a third 598 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:54,920 of the price. So it wasn't anywhere near as 599 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,840 expensive as people thought, but that actually started to justify 600 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:00,640 the price of Tom's as a brand. Like buying that product means 601 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:02,880 you're doing this. I was AI, was a customer. 602 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,520 Yeah, same. It was quite a commitment for 603 00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:07,160 Tom's, though I believe they were doing it. 604 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:08,920 I was like, well I'm obviously going to buy one because I have 605 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:09,800 to give a. Pair to something else. 606 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,600 But also, I mean, they're amazing shoes because then I 607 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,440 wore them, fell in love with them and yeah, I had a had a few 608 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,760 pairs of them. So I think as you say like that 609 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,960 charity partner resonating I think is so important with that. 610 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,440 And how do you guys find obviously in in your sort of 611 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,600 fashion world, one of the biggest things that can hit 612 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:28,680 businesses is returns. You know, customers receive 613 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,080 something, they send it back. How do you guys manage the 614 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,280 return process? Like has that ever come to haunt 615 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:34,600 you? Has it been an issue or did it 616 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,040 tend to? Be OK at the beginning. 617 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,000 At the beginning, this was an issue because a lot of people, 618 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,800 unfortunately, they, they tend to like use a garment and then 619 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:43,360 try to return it. That that happens. 620 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:48,960 But thankfully, thanks to AI and a lot of new programs that are 621 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,160 going out there, you can see the pattern of a customer too, if 622 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,480 they return too much, if they return too less or whatever it 623 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,760 is. And also there's another thing 624 00:28:57,320 --> 00:29:02,480 that we came up with is that we have this return tags and all of 625 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,200 the garments that have like a barcode that it's impossible for 626 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,600 you to wear like the garment with that because it will show 627 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,440 all over. Yeah. 628 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,960 So if you if you open that barcode, it's impossible to like 629 00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,240 stitch it again. So you know, that makes item non 630 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,080 returnable when it comes to jewelry pieces, for example, 631 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,320 ears and things like that, you cannot return because of hygiene 632 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,920 purposes. But yeah, we have a very 633 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680 flexible return policy. So that's mean. 634 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,600 As for now, the only thing that has impacted us is in terms of 635 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,520 logistics, because it's getting the return back to the 636 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,720 warehouse. It's basically making the entire 637 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:44,760 process of when the garment enters the warehouse to where we 638 00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,760 refund the item or whatever it is depending if it's on sale or 639 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,960 not. That's the only kind of thing. 640 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:53,200 But you know, for for the fashion industry, I don't think 641 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,920 we have a high rate of return at all. 642 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:56,040 That's cool. Yeah, yeah. 643 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,200 I think it's a real challenge for brands and it is. 644 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:00,520 You reminded me of, we used to work with a company that sold 645 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:02,920 underwear and what they would do is you could only buy underwear 646 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,000 in packs. And the pack, you know, you say 647 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,560 about the barcode, they would put one of those plastic tags 648 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,280 that would hold like 3 pairs of underwear together. 649 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,400 So you could. There's no way you could wear 650 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,280 these things for a day because you'd have three of them 651 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,200 attached. That's so. 652 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,560 Funny, return it. I thought it's exact very 653 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,520 similar to what you were saying about making sure that like it's 654 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,080 really visible in the garment that like the return tag. 655 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,840 It's literally a ribbon off. It's a ribbon and goes around 656 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,360 the piece, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 657 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,800 So I think it's really, really smart having stuff like that. 658 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:32,440 Yeah, certainly included. But and I guess final question 659 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:34,640 from me then is like, it sounds like you've been on such an 660 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,400 amazing journey and as you say, like you're passionate about 661 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:38,920 this, you really want to keep pushing this thing. 662 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,120 What are you trying to do? Like what are you looking at in 663 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:42,920 2025? What are you looking at over the 664 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:44,560 next five years? Like, where do you want to take 665 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,360 the brand and what are some of the challenges you think you're 666 00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,920 going to face? So first of all, we're trying to 667 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:54,400 come up with another line for January 2026, so you know, next 668 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,040 year. But second part of this is that 669 00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,000 we're trying to expand internationally. 670 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:05,080 So we got an offer from a couple of stores in Dubai. 671 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,360 So we're going to see how that works for us. 672 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,200 It's a new market. But since our pieces are not 673 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,840 like super, super sexy, you know, they like us and 674 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,080 everything, it's more on the conservative side. 675 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:20,000 So yeah, that's kind of the kind of like the road expansion, 676 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:21,600 international expansion and keep growing. 677 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:24,720 I think the Sky's the limit. You know, sometimes people ask 678 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,080 me, like you say, well, what do you want to get? 679 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,480 Where do you want to go? I'm like the moon. 680 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,560 That's cool, yeah. Yeah, no, I love that. 681 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,160 I love that. I mean, look, all the best with 682 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,240 the journey. I mean, you've had some amazing 683 00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:38,920 successes. I mean, I'm saying just before 684 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,080 we start recording as well and definitely go and check out 685 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,560 their Instagram and stuff guys, because you guys got you got 686 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,520 some mentions in Vogue and stuff on the front cover like stick 687 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,720 and pinned on Instagram. It's really cool. 688 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,480 If anyone missed the name of the brand, how can people find your 689 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,000 website? How can they reach out to you? 690 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,280 How can they get in touch? So they can find a website at 691 00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,080 akaliaofficial.com. We had to put the official 692 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,840 because there was somebody like trying to copy those like years 693 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,360 ago. That means you're doing a good 694 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:09,000 job by the way. So and essentially that and on 695 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,760 Instagram is the same as the Kelia official.com and Kelia 696 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,880 means gifted in Greece in Greek. Sorry. 697 00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,480 So that means that every kind of woman comes with something 698 00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,760 different that makes her different and special like a 699 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:22,520 gift. What else? 700 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,680 You can find me on my social media. 701 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,200 I have like to followers, I'm super private on my social 702 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,640 media, but I do have a professional Instagram where I 703 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,760 consult some small business owners if somebody needs which 704 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,680 is scale your product and on Instagram and yeah, that's kind 705 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,760 of it. Amazing, Amazing what Isabel, 706 00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,280 thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it. 707 00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:43,640 Good bye. Thank you for sharing your story 708 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,280 as well of. Course. 709 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:46,640 Amazing. And for everyone listening at 710 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,240 home, we'll be back again next Friday and a massive, sorry, I 711 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,280 shouldn't start. We didn't post last week because 712 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,480 we had a bit of a mix up with with a number of different 713 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,880 people. So apologies we didn't post, but 714 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,040 we normally post every Friday. Make sure you subscribe to our 715 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:58,720 newsletter as well. We're sending out some amazing 716 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,360 exclusives and there's a couple of competitions possibly coming 717 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:02,600 up as well. So join our newsletter, 718 00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:04,600 wwpodcast.com. Thanks for tuning in today and 719 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:05,560 we'll see you again next Friday.