1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240 Today on the Winning with Shopify podcast. 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,400 If you spot someone wearing one of our hoodies or our T-shirts, 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,720 that it starts conversations. You guys are quite unique as a 4 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:10,560 brand. There wasn't much out there 5 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:13,360 about autism, I really struggled to explain it. 6 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,880 The one who works SA clothing is either a parent carer for their 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,320 autistic or neurodivergent. When your your phone starts 8 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:23,960 dinging from Shopify with the the sales going. 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:25,840 For that lovely sounds, Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's. 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,320 Fantastic. But I actually had to turn it 11 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,680 off that day because it was, it was too much. 12 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,000 It was an amazing problem to have. 13 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:34,920 There's about, there's about 10 people out there with our design 14 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:36,800 tattoos on their arms and they, Oh my gosh. 15 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:44,080 Hello and welcome to another episode of the Winning with 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:46,120 Shopify podcast. If it's your first time shooting 17 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:48,720 in, welcome to the pinkest, brightest podcast you've 18 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:50,760 probably ever seen. And that's part of our branding. 19 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,080 I don't like pink, but it works and that's part of my mantra in 20 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:55,960 life when it comes to marketing. Been listening for a while. 21 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:57,760 Please hit the subscribe button, leave us a review. 22 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,600 And if you've been listening for a while or you're new, two 23 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,400 things to check out. One is that we are running 24 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,560 meetups in London. No one is running a Shopify meet 25 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,120 up for merchants, but not anymore. 26 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,200 We have launched that 28th of May is our first one. 27 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:11,280 So if you're watching this or listening to this after that, 28 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:13,000 we've already had one. We've got one in September and 29 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,960 another one in January. If it's not the 28th of May yet, 30 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,240 it's not too late to sign up. So make sure you sign up. 31 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:21,840 It's at dot digital #1 London Bridge overlooking the the whole 32 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,280 city at Top floor #1 Bridge, beautiful venue. 33 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,840 We've got 2 brands, Snake Hive and Look Fabulous Forever that 34 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,640 I'm going to be interviewing and I'm going to be sharing some 35 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:30,240 stuff there. There's also loads of food, 36 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:31,480 drinks and loads of other stuff going on. 37 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,680 There's one in September that Molly the payment gateway are 38 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,320 hosting and then Trustpilot I believe are going to be hosting 39 00:01:36,320 --> 00:01:39,000 us in January. If not, ignore that, someone 40 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,160 else will, but I do have it in writing that they're going to do 41 00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,160 that. So those are our meet ups. 42 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,800 And also if you haven't joined the growth hub yet, then please 43 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,320 do. It's completely free. 44 00:01:47,320 --> 00:01:49,160 It's for brands only and you can talk to other brands. 45 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,760 We are running an e-mail content one which would have just 46 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,120 happened when this episode goes out. 47 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:54,880 So apologies. But we've got a few other little 48 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:57,200 round tables, little videos. We can talk to other brands and 49 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,840 I just host a big discussion and you guys can all jump in, ask 50 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:01,960 questions, share ideas, that kind of thing. 51 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,000 Anyway, of a different episode today, we are talking to a 52 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,600 Shopify store and we're talking to a Shopify brand, but with a 53 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:10,160 bit of A twist and that will become more apparent as we get 54 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:11,840 into this. But James, you are from SAA 55 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:13,400 Clothing. Welcome to the show. 56 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:15,720 How are you doing today? I'm really good, Nick. 57 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:17,720 Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure to be here. 58 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:21,400 I've been listening for the last about 12 months, so yeah. 59 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,760 Oh nice, nice, nice and I didn't even know that, let alone asked 60 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:26,120 James to say this. It's great that you're a 61 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:28,840 listener so you know the format. I've just spent 5 minutes 62 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:30,920 explaining to James how the show goes. 63 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:33,080 But no, great to have you on Jameson. 64 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:35,240 Appreciate I said as well. I appreciate you're in the UK so 65 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:37,480 you can record in the morning while I'm still full of coffee. 66 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:39,960 Well, it's just into the afternoon now, but James, I 67 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:41,840 mentioned we got a bit of a different episode, as in you 68 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:43,760 guys are quite unique as a brand. 69 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,680 Give us an overview to what the brand's about how it started and 70 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:49,880 specifically about your branding and how it's different. 71 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,200 So perhaps a more kind of traditional e-commerce store? 72 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,840 Sure. So our brand is SA Clothing that 73 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,840 stands for Stories about Autism. I'm a dad of two boys who are 74 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,080 both autistic. And that's sort of where the 75 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:08,040 idea came from really. I noticed that, you know, 76 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,880 there's this huge community out there who often at times feel 77 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,040 alone, don't realise that there's so many other people 78 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:18,240 living a similar life to them. And you know, what better way to 79 00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:21,080 connect them through clothing by through sort of positive 80 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,600 messaging and to just help people realise that you're out 81 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,080 there. It's, it's something we've been 82 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,440 doing for 18 months now. And yeah, it's been, it's been 83 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,400 amazing. So six months in when you 84 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,400 started listening to the show and an 18 month old business. 85 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:39,080 So I imagine you're probably still having a combination of 86 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,360 some of the things that start to happen as you start to grow in 87 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:43,320 and build a business, but also some of those early start up 88 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,120 pains and what what's the journey been like over the 1st 89 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,000 18 months? It's yeah, it's, it's been 90 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,040 something, you know, I've learning as I go. 91 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,520 I've had no e-commerce experience. 92 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,920 I've been sort of using social media to tell stories for about 93 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:03,080 10 years. And, and yeah, I had to throw 94 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:06,080 myself into Shopify and trying to learn how to, you know, 95 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:08,440 everything that's been done on a website is me. 96 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,280 And I'm by far definitely not an expert. 97 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:13,400 So that's why I started listening to the podcast, trying 98 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,519 to learn as much as I could and and figure things out really. 99 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:18,880 Yeah, yeah. And I hope it's been helpful 100 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,600 because we it's so hard to try and cater for such a broad 101 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:23,840 Church of, you know, some weeks we have 10s of thousands of 102 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,080 people listening and it's like, you know, me or a guest would 103 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,640 say the one thing every brand should do and it's like you go 104 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:31,240 and do it. We've actually got a trailer 105 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:34,000 coming out soon of a guy like just getting so confused trying 106 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:38,200 to absorb content online. And certainly we were talking 107 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:39,600 before as well. You mentioned your two boys and 108 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:40,960 obviously I've just become a dad as well. 109 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:44,400 So like talking about just the kind of doctor TikTok or doctor 110 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,160 Reddit, as I was calling it in the kind of baby classes we did 111 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:51,600 before she turns up and there's there's so much advice out there 112 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,160 about Shopify stores and stuff. So try and always caveat with 113 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,920 whatever James tells us today, guys like it's valuable 114 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:58,440 information. It's been amazing for him. 115 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,080 Some of the successes, some of the challenges. 116 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,080 You've got to digest that and work it out what that means for 117 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,440 your business. You know, there's no guarantees 118 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,840 in life. And actually you could have two 119 00:05:05,840 --> 00:05:09,160 pretty parallel copy and paste businesses do exactly the same 120 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,200 thing and get a completely different set of outputs. 121 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,480 But 10 years telling stories like tell us more about that 122 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:16,840 background. Like what was that leading up 123 00:05:16,840 --> 00:05:18,760 into into running the store? Sure. 124 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:25,120 So my boys are 16 and 13, and I found that about 10 years ago 125 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:27,920 there wasn't much out there about autism. 126 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,520 I really struggled to explain it to friends and family. 127 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,120 I didn't really know how to how to get the words out, especially 128 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,560 for my boys. We had to stop going to a lot of 129 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,480 social occasions because it's too overwhelming to too much for 130 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,520 them. So when I did meet up with 131 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:49,360 friends and family, it was often quite rushed, short snippets and 132 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,640 they'd ask how the boys and I'd say, yeah, they're OK, thanks. 133 00:05:53,840 --> 00:05:57,200 And that was it. You know, I didn't really know 134 00:05:57,200 --> 00:06:00,560 how to explain what the last six months have been like in in 2 135 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,520 minutes. So I decided to write it down. 136 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:06,840 I, I struggled to talk about it. So I started writing it down in 137 00:06:06,840 --> 00:06:09,840 the hopes that friends and friends and family would read 138 00:06:09,840 --> 00:06:13,120 and get to understand and inform our conversations a bit more. 139 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,280 And it just snowballed into something a lot more with I 140 00:06:18,280 --> 00:06:21,160 think the first thing I did was a blog post back in the days 141 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,600 when blog posts were a thing and it got shared on Facebook and 142 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,280 it, yeah, it just grew and grew. I realised that suddenly people 143 00:06:29,280 --> 00:06:33,080 from all over the world are reading it and it just became an 144 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:36,160 everyday thing. You know, before back then, we 145 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:38,480 weren't really sharing, you know, there weren't no Instagram 146 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,280 stories, there were no things like that where you were sharing 147 00:06:40,280 --> 00:06:43,480 constantly every day. But that's what it's become over 148 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,000 time of just just documenting our lives and and really trying 149 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,000 to help normalise what life is like for me and my boys. 150 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:52,920 Yeah, yeah. And I, I think it's amazing 151 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:55,120 because the, I certainly won't know anywhere near as much as 152 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:57,840 you do about autism specifically, but got autistic 153 00:06:57,840 --> 00:06:59,600 people in the family. I've got friends that are 154 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,320 autistic and, and actually, we've, I've even had staff 155 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,120 members and that comes with its own challenges to overcome and, 156 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:08,200 and really kind of work through. And I, I can say it's so 157 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,840 rewarding when you kind of find that like here's now, here's now 158 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,160 the calm, controlled way of doing something. 159 00:07:13,160 --> 00:07:16,080 It might only be for a season, but just getting into that flow 160 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,920 of like, they know what's coming up. 161 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,280 Enjoy I I think one thing and I'd love to know if this plays a 162 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:10,280 part in your branding at all or or not, but this literally 163 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,600 conversations happen at the pub with a few friends of mine and 164 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,160 one works in kind of psychology and counselling. 165 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,080 And we were saying that autism is just misunderstood as it 166 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,760 rather than it being labeled as a condition all the time. 167 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,800 It comes with its own challenges of then certainly young guys and 168 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,840 girls saying actually, I feel I'll, I feel unwell because I'm 169 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,480 being labeled with this tag or autistic. 170 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,360 When actually if you look at society and who we need to, for 171 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,799 society to function well and for the economy to grow and for 172 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:41,880 people to flourish. We need people that want to know 173 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,000 what is going to happen today. And we need people that go, 174 00:08:44,159 --> 00:08:46,400 actually, if you give me a process, I will refine and 175 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:48,560 improve that process to the hills and back. 176 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:50,560 But I need to do it on my own or I need to do it in this 177 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:52,240 particular environment, in this setting. 178 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:54,240 I can't work in a busy office. I don't want to commute on the 179 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,120 tube like. But if you get them in the right 180 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,480 environment, suddenly what sounds like a weakness becomes a 181 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,480 real strength. So again, I always come into 182 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,440 these interviews quite fresh. I've not done too much research 183 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,880 on on SSAA, sorry, too much myself. 184 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:08,280 But how much does that come to play a part that I'm actually 185 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:09,920 saying this could be a real strength as opposed to just 186 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:11,960 being a weakness? Some people will see it. 187 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:14,480 It is something that's really important that needs to be 188 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,800 understood. And obviously autism is is a 189 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:19,640 really wide spectrum. And what that means is it 190 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,400 impacts people in different ways and to different extents. 191 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,520 You know, my boys, for instance, are both non speaking. 192 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:31,120 So they, you know, have a real struggle with communication and 193 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,920 language and quite a lot of sort of sensory overload. 194 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,520 But I also know lots of autistic adults who, yeah, who are in the 195 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:44,080 workplace who have either struggled because of the 196 00:09:44,080 --> 00:09:47,560 environment, but are very highly skilled and, you know, very good 197 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:50,040 at their job when they. So when they do find the right 198 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,760 role for them, it it, it really works. 199 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:55,920 Like that's something we've taken into the, to the business 200 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:58,960 as well. We, the one who works SA 201 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:02,920 clothing is either a parent carer or they're autistic or 202 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,880 neurodivergent themselves. So we're trying to, you know, 203 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:08,640 keep that ethos throughout the company. 204 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,240 We have actually it's Monday today. 205 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:17,080 So a young man called Lawrence who he comes in with his 206 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,200 personal assistant to do a couple of hours work each each. 207 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,720 He's got quite a, you know, he's got learning disability. 208 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,280 And for him, that couple of hours gives him such a sort of 209 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:31,760 purpose each week to come in and just be part of the team. 210 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:34,040 And you know, he's a real sort of valued member. 211 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:40,440 And like I say, we've got of autistic staff who work two or 212 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,080 three days a week. We've got parent carers who 213 00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:45,920 again for them it's about being able to negotiate their hours 214 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,640 around school times. So and that in turn gives us a 215 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,440 lot of knowledge within the community of what the community 216 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,560 need and what's going to help our potential customers. 217 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:01,560 Yeah, yeah. And I think it's amazing as well 218 00:11:01,560 --> 00:11:04,600 just to rather than just being a brand where it's just a slogan 219 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,160 on AT shirt. I think it going right the way 220 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,960 through the core of your workforce is I mean, it's well 221 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,520 done. It's incredible to hear like 222 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:12,960 it's, it's, it's so good to hear that because so it's something 223 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,480 I've been kind of loosely getting involved in more, more 224 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,040 at arm's length, but it's trying to get young people into work 225 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,120 rather than into gangs and stuff in our local area. 226 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,640 And, you know, just kind of doing drugs out on the streets, 227 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,760 which literally some of them were doing that and now they're 228 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,720 becoming builders, carpenters, digital marketers and other 229 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,560 stuff. It's really rewarding just 230 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,080 seeing that life change when it's that, as you say, that that 231 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,160 valued member of the team feeling valued. 232 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:36,680 It's not as easy as just going, well, let's just get someone in 233 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:38,560 who's got some sort of challenge in life. 234 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:40,480 It's like there's so much more to it as well. 235 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,200 I imagine that you guys have to work through every day. 236 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:45,920 Yeah. And it's, it's about finding, 237 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:47,400 you know, at the same time it is a business. 238 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,320 So we need the right skill set in certain roles to, to. 239 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:53,760 And that is one of the challenges I'm I'm coming up 240 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:59,080 with now of I still want to keep as we sort of look look at 241 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,800 growth, I still want to keep that ethos throughout the 242 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,520 company. But as you know, now we need, 243 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,320 you know, certain experts or people who are really good at 244 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,760 certain things and it's finding them, but also keeping the the 245 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,640 balance and the sort of the dream that we have for, for what 246 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,920 we're doing. Absolutely, absolutely. 247 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,360 And so we've spoken about the kind of the ethos and where the 248 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,680 brands come from and how you guys are sort of bringing that 249 00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,360 to life in the company. Let's talk about products like 250 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,560 you got, you mentioned it was obviously a clothing brand. 251 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:29,400 It's it's called SAA clothing. What do you guys sell? 252 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,480 Like how do you how do you not just them and excuse my tone 253 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,600 here, but this is probably what you're not doing. 254 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,720 I hope what you're not doing. How do you not just sort of slap 255 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:39,520 a slogan on AT shirt and try and sell it? 256 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:41,960 Like how do you guys bring autism and and some of the 257 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,880 things you guys are trying to counter and help people with 258 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:45,880 more to the forefront with the product range itself? 259 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,720 Sure. So I think it comes from the 260 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,120 sort of authenticity that I've had all this time of sharing our 261 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,280 own stories and, and having that real sense of community. 262 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:03,800 And, you know, we, we wanted to go beyond like that sort of 263 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:07,560 charity T-shirt style that, that, that often you see. 264 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:09,440 And, you know, we wanted it to be something that people are 265 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,920 proud to wear, that people want to wear, you know, to the gym, 266 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,800 to the pub, to work to, to school, to. 267 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:22,080 And the idea being is a kind of, I see it as the same as if you 268 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,440 was going to wear a football shirt, right? 269 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,960 You, you wear a football shirt and you, you feel like you're 270 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:28,040 part of the community. And when you spot someone else 271 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,200 wearing that same football shirt, you, you have something 272 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,920 in common with them. Well, that's kind of what we've 273 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:37,040 wanted to create is that sense of if you spot someone wearing 274 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:42,120 one of our hoodies or our T-shirts, that you, it, it 275 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,280 starts conversations. We've had so many times people 276 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,800 saying that they've spoke to other parents at school gates or 277 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,080 they've spoke to, they've been to centre parks and bumped into 278 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,280 someone wearing a hoodie. And, and often when you know, 279 00:13:55,320 --> 00:13:58,080 I've been there, when I've been out with my boys, that you can 280 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,160 feel quite judged in public around because you're, you're 281 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,880 different and maybe not doing the things that that other kids 282 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,920 and other families are doing. And you can often feel quite 283 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,920 alone when you're when you're in that position. 284 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:14,120 So knowing that people are meeting other people either in 285 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,240 their local community or on holiday or at work wearing some 286 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,480 of our clothes, like I said, it just starts that conversation. 287 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:23,280 And that is probably one of the best feelings when someone 288 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,280 messages us and says I'm speaking to another mum at 289 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,840 school now because I actually now now know their daughter's 290 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,080 autistic as well because she was wearing a hoodie. 291 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:35,320 Whereas you can't just go, oh, is, is your daughter autistic 292 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:37,280 and go and ask someone. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 293 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,880 It's a cool conversation, so. Or shout in the playground. 294 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:41,960 Hands up, yeah. Doesn't want to do that. 295 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,840 Yeah, sort of reduce those barriers and to to create your 296 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:47,040 own community. Nice, nice. 297 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,960 And I really, really like that. And I think the do you guys do 298 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,240 anything digitally with that? Like because I was going to say, 299 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,280 I think the opportunity then is to start making almost like a 300 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,720 kind of online group. Have you guys sort of reached 301 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:59,200 that stage as well to have like a digital version of it as well 302 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,040 as the kind of spotting of the brand? 303 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,520 We've done a couple of 1 offs, but we're looking to make that 304 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:11,600 more sort of permanent thing of, of either sort of online meet 305 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:16,880 ups, you know, kind of coffee morning style meetups possibly, 306 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,320 you know, now and again with some education and, and some, 307 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,520 you know, speakers to come in and either share their story or 308 00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:27,160 share some tips and advice. But yeah, we've done, we've done 309 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:30,640 a couple of things locally. So one, I'd, I'd jump ahead a 310 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,520 little bit, But one of the things is we, we have an actual 311 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:39,200 physical shop and we have a, so we have a sensory room in the 312 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,800 shop where what that means is when families come in with their 313 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,800 kids, the kids can hang out in the sensory room and the parents 314 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,400 can stay and have a chat. Because most people who come 315 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,600 into the shop are there to, to have a chat. 316 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:51,920 Really that's what we're there to do. 317 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,320 So that gives them half an hour to, to come and talk. 318 00:15:55,600 --> 00:16:03,120 We've done some special needs friendly events where we did one 319 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:07,320 at Christmas going to a local farm and you know, inviting 320 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:09,840 families along. We've got 1 coming up in a 321 00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:13,160 couple of weeks. We did a parent care reef making 322 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:16,600 workshop to again, try and get people to to connect and know 323 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,200 each other. So that's something we're able 324 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,200 to do through because of the online store, but with our local 325 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,040 community too, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. 326 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:27,640 And I mean it's, it sounds, it sounds amazing. 327 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,520 And the, the journey you guys have been on, and I've got a 328 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,560 note here that when that journey began, you guys had a 50K launch 329 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:37,520 weekend in 50,000 lbs of sales. Talk us through like everything 330 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,720 from what happened, but also like, and I love asking this 331 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:41,880 part of the question. Tell us about the emotional side 332 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,440 of what was going through your mind over that weekend, that 333 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,640 launch. So, you know, I'm sure like 334 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:48,880 anyone who's started the business is a, you know, it's a 335 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,120 scary thought. You have this idea and you're so 336 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:53,920 passionate about it and you want it to succeed. 337 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,280 And I was fortunate in the fact that I had quite a large online 338 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,400 community already. So I had, I had an idea that it 339 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:05,040 would sell, you know, not to that extent by any means, but I 340 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,000 thought, you know, we're not going to lose money on the on 341 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,280 the first, you know, first month or so. 342 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:12,200 I thought we'd, you know, we'd be OK. 343 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:18,119 And so, yeah, we did all the build up to the photos, sort of 344 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,000 teased it for a week online and released it at. 345 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:27,400 I remember it wasn't so 9:00 AM December 1st on a Friday and it 346 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,840 just went insane. And you know that feeling of 347 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:35,280 when your your phone starts dinging from Shopify with the 348 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:37,760 the sales going? Through that lovely sound, yeah, 349 00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,040 yeah. It's fantastic, but I actually 350 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,480 had to turn it off that day because it was, it was, it was 351 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:44,960 too much. It was an amazing problem to 352 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,480 have. On the flip side, we really 353 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:53,240 weren't prepared for that level of first weekend. 354 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,760 And with it being a couple of weeks before Christmas, 355 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:57,520 obviously people were buying Christmas presents really 356 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,840 wanted, you know, and to, to get there. 357 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:06,520 And the model we had back then was it was about, we managed 358 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,160 with our suppliers to get a seven day turn around from the 359 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,040 orders that weekend to being delivered to us, not really 360 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:17,640 appreciating how long it would take to fulfil that. 361 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:21,400 So when it did start arriving, you know, and we was doing it 362 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,720 from home, we didn't have a, a base or anything then it was, 363 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,440 this was supposed to be a home online business and. 364 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,880 You had 50 grands worth of clothing, suddenly it. 365 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,120 Suddenly arrived, you had, I think at one stage you had like 366 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:38,520 70 boxes of, you know, like like huge boxes of clothes just 367 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:43,400 spread out and then obviously trying to like where's the black 368 00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:47,600 3XL T-shirt to put in someone's order. 369 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,000 And it just took so long and it was so like I can. 370 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,680 Just imagine the conversation like eating pizza on the lounge 371 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,720 floor one night going What the hell have we done? 372 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,840 From the day the boxes arrived until the 23rd of December, it 373 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:05,840 was like 16 hour days, you know, and around that also trying to 374 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:10,720 navigate having 22 boys and another thing else it was and 375 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,960 that that stress of because everyone's so connected, you 376 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,800 know, everyone who bought really was a follower. 377 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,960 And so I wanted it to be there before Christmas. 378 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:25,200 I was definitely be there before Christmas and yeah, that that 379 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,760 soon made us realise that OK, this isn't an online home 380 00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:28,680 business. We need a. 381 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:31,600 We need a base. Yeah, Yeah. 382 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:34,360 And I mean, when you said 18 months, like some businesses at 383 00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:36,560 18 months are like they're still trying to get that first order, 384 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:38,480 you guys. I mean, because of the weight, 385 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:43,360 that 10 year kind of weight behind the Shopify store, it's 386 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:44,800 obviously got going really, really quickly, which is 387 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,200 amazing. Our partners at Saguna have 388 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,440 released a brand new app for Shopify and it's called Shopify 389 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,160 Connect 4 Canva. You can essentially look at all 390 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,240 of your product images from Shopify directly in Canva and 391 00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,560 export them straight back. This can save you a lot of time. 392 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,800 If you want to find out a bit more about this or go and find 393 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:05,400 the app yourself, you can go to saguna.com/canva. 394 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:07,640 Enjoy. What have been some of the 395 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:09,600 challenges then? Was it like kind of a big launch 396 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,800 and then a massive lull? Like as you say, like some of it 397 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:14,960 was some of it's, it's really nice running the brand and 398 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:16,840 having people buy products and there's the kind of emotive, 399 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:18,440 passionate side. But you are a business at the 400 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:20,600 same time. Like how hard is it to balance 401 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:24,040 those two things at times where it's like we just need some more 402 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,960 revenue through the door or our sales are just too low, We're 403 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,080 not sustainable like this versus, oh, let's go off and do 404 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,360 another event that's probably not going to make us necessarily 405 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:33,920 any money, but it's going to be really, really good for the 406 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:35,320 cause. Like how do you balance those 407 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:36,680 two things and keep them keep them in good? 408 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,600 Killed her. Yeah, it's it's tricky I and 409 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,360 because we are new business, it's also understanding like 410 00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:48,360 what is a seasonal low, what is a, how much should we be doing a 411 00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:53,240 month compared to, you know to the marketing that we're doing 412 00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,800 or or you know what, what's a good month, what's a bad month. 413 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,360 So we've kind of been learning that and, and for that first 414 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,120 nine months, it was only me and sort of one other part time. 415 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,240 So since then we've, you know, taken on the shop, taken on the 416 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,680 staff and then, yeah, suddenly there's a, you know, there's 417 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,760 overheads every month and there's a responsibility and 418 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,480 there are all people that, you know, you're trying to help. 419 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,160 You want to be part of this company, you want to be 420 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:26,760 employed, which means even more because of the reason why 421 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,360 they're part of the company. And so, yeah, there is an added 422 00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:37,160 pressure and, and yeah, it's a did you know, did that product 423 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,800 not work because of the design or did it not work because of 424 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,440 the, the month for the, you know, the, the socials around 425 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,720 it? There's so many things and, and 426 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:47,960 things that I don't really probably know the answers to 427 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,120 still yet. I'm still running as I go. 428 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:54,680 But but yeah, it's been, you know, that launch month was, was 429 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:57,840 definitely our best month in the 18 months so far. 430 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:00,520 But we've had some, some good months around it too. 431 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,080 And, and I feel like we're, we're in a good place to grow 432 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,520 now and that I think that's the next step is, is how to, you 433 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,680 know, what's the, where best do we focus our efforts to do that? 434 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:12,080 Yeah, yeah. And we're, I've, I've worked 435 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,960 with plenty of brands over the years where they're like they're 436 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,160 making a little bit of profit or they're making a slight loss or 437 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,440 something. And they're like, we just need 438 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:19,240 to grow. And it's, you kind of have that 439 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:20,600 stop and have that quick conversation with them. 440 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,120 Say, you do know, if we don't fix some of the like 441 00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:26,600 operational, financial, sustainable kind of parts to 442 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,920 this or work out what your team looks like internally, we're 443 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:31,280 just going to scale up a problem. 444 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:35,640 And that like if you're making a 1% loss or 5% loss, that's a lot 445 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:38,360 bigger in terms of numerical numbers when you reach 446 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,560 £1,000,000 turnover a month versus when you're at £10,000 a 447 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,880 month turnover. And so I think it's, I think 448 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:45,360 you're doing the right thing, obviously of just looking at 449 00:22:45,360 --> 00:22:46,600 like, do we have all the right blocks? 450 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,440 Then we kind of go up another, I always look at it like a 451 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:49,920 staircase. You kind of get everything ready 452 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,080 and then you jump up to the next step and you kind of sustain 453 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:54,000 yourself there a little bit. Then we get the next set of 454 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,320 blocks ready. We jump up as if they're the 455 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,040 next step on the on the staircase. 456 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:00,400 And certainly an overhead start to grow. 457 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,440 Once you've got a staff size of a certain amount, you need HR 458 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,400 and other bits and pieces that kick in and the government stops 459 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,840 giving you little tax breaks, which, you know, thanks guys. 460 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:11,240 So the, I think there's, there's always other challenges that 461 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,880 start to come in. But you guys aren't just trying 462 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,920 to grow the e-commerce side, are you? 463 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,440 I've got in my notes here that you're also writing a book. 464 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:20,880 So you've got their kind of online community. 465 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,640 We've been running for 10 years. You've got the Shopify store. 466 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:24,560 It's been 18 months. There's a book coming as well. 467 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,000 What are you writing a book about? 468 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,120 Tell us more about that. Yeah, so the book is more so my 469 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,080 life and and the boy's life. So that's so my social media 470 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,280 pages, stories about autism and then essay clothing has has come 471 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,920 off the back of that. And yeah, the book is linked to, 472 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,960 I mean, it definitely talks about the clothing because 473 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,120 that's a part of our lives and that's been a huge part of our 474 00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:48,200 community. But it's really, it's about, 475 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,520 it's about parenting. It's about you know what, how 476 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,680 you adjust when life looks differently than what you 477 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,240 imagined and how you adapt and how it can still be just as fun 478 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,800 and just as beautiful too. And that's the message behind 479 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,240 it. And, and really trying to be a 480 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,640 sort of resource for, for parents and who possibly are 481 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,440 earlier on in their journey and to help people understand a bit 482 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,800 more about autism really. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 483 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,280 And I think when certainly when we'd work with clients, normally 484 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,360 we're working on the SEO side of things. 485 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,120 We're trying to build links, one of the hardest things we come up 486 00:24:26,120 --> 00:24:29,280 against, and it can be kind of like smashing your head against 487 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,760 the wall in the office at times going like who on earth wants to 488 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,120 talk about like wall cladding or there's another thing we 489 00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:38,640 advertise one of our clients. So welfare vans, it's basically 490 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,880 a van that's got 2 rows of seats and in the back is a small 491 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,200 kitchen, a toilet. So if someone's working at like 492 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,960 3:00 AM on the railways or the roads or something, there's 493 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,640 somewhere safe and warm for them to go for a coffee break, you 494 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:51,440 know, and kind of get changed out their wet clothes 495 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,200 afterwards. Well, so you learn loads about 496 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,720 this, but you're like, the BBC is, I'm not going to publish a 497 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:59,360 big article talking about like this is Bob who lives in a 498 00:24:59,360 --> 00:25:02,720 welfare van four nights a week, you know, like no one's going to 499 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,160 do about that. So sometimes it's quite 500 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,800 difficult to come up with those almost like PR stories to 501 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,200 generate awareness, to generate links, which obviously we're 502 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:11,480 trying to get the SEO rankings to go up, but we need that 503 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,040 activity. So I think you know, my advice 504 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,280 to you and to anyone else who's thinking of how do I build 505 00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,840 links, having something like a book launch is massive because 506 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,840 there is so much now storytelling behind what you're 507 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:24,920 doing that journalists are constantly on the lookout for. 508 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:27,720 Because a bit like you sharing the story here, we'll talk a bit 509 00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:29,760 more about Shopify for the next 5-10 minutes as well. 510 00:25:29,760 --> 00:25:33,760 But the story of how you've got to where you are in your family 511 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:36,640 life and everything that is that is the brand personality, that 512 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,720 is who people are buying into when they buy your clothing. 513 00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:40,600 And that is what you can take to the forefront. 514 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,800 I call them marketplace shops where it's like, it's just a 515 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,000 white background. Here are some products and all 516 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,560 the product descriptions are so hard to write because it's just 517 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,560 like this is a box, it's made of cardboard, it has six sides. 518 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:55,280 It opens and closes. You can use to sell it safe on 519 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:56,640 it like and all these other things. 520 00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,760 It's so hard to write a good product description about that. 521 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,400 But if you're talking about an item of clothing, saying we 522 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,760 designed this shoe to have a zip because if you are in a 523 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:06,920 wheelchair and cannot stand up, putting your shoes on and doing 524 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,200 your laces is a non starter. And so, yeah, we have Billy 525 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,920 footwear on. You have that exact product and 526 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,520 similar to what you guys are doing is that story. 527 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,920 There's a reason why we're doing this thing becomes quite a big 528 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:20,160 PR story. But let's talk about those 529 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,200 stories and your marketing. Like what does your marketing 530 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,520 look like for the store? Do you predominately focus on 531 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:27,760 that community where you've been storytelling or do you guys 532 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,480 still do some of the traditional PPCSEO, social ads, e-mail 533 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:33,400 marketing? Like do you still try and cover 534 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,880 all of those bases and tell the story in a unique way in the 535 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:40,480 same space as perhaps other just generic clothing brands are 536 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,400 operating? Yeah. 537 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:48,480 So, so far it's been like pretty much all just organic social. 538 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:55,840 It's been through our clothing accounts, socials on really on 539 00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:01,080 Instagram, Facebook and TikTok. And then me sort of amplifying 540 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,080 it a little bit here and there through stories about autism as 541 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:12,000 well and which is great. But yeah, we, we have, I'm 542 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:16,520 definitely not an e-mail expert. I'm sending emails sometimes 543 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,800 regularly, sometimes not. I've got a couple of flows set 544 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,320 up, which again, I've been sort of learning about as I go. 545 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,320 And, you know, it has some results, but definitely that's 546 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:32,400 something that we can improve and we can from what I learned 547 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,920 from listening to your podcasts and from other reasons, these 548 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,000 e-mail marketing is should be a lot bigger than what it 549 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,720 currently is. And I think, yeah, the, the real 550 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,600 possibility for growth for us is we haven't done any paid ads. 551 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,520 We haven't done any Meta ads. We haven't done any pay per 552 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:52,280 click. And it's, it's figuring out how 553 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,600 best to do that. Do I, you know, spend a lot more 554 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,880 time trying to learn it? Do I employ someone? 555 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,640 See it's making those decisions. And that's sort of definitely 556 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,480 the the phase right at the moment is that's the next step I 557 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:06,920 think. Yeah, yeah. 558 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:08,600 And I think the challenge you guys have got is just that 559 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,720 targeting methods was telling the story, which is no different 560 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:14,160 to any brand. It's like who are we targeting? 561 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,880 What we're going to tell them so that they buy products or at 562 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,800 least engage in our story, in our journey. 563 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:21,200 When you were saying actually we've done it all kind of 564 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,080 organically and socially initially like not had to pay 565 00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:25,960 much out. My first thought was why would 566 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,120 you pay for traffic if you're getting it for free? 567 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,440 So there's always that kind of match up as well. 568 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,440 I think isn't there a balancing like the how? 569 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,480 I guess the question really is how much can we get for free and 570 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:37,240 then how do we make something profitable there? 571 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,640 If you're looking at 5 T-shirts and Google Shopping, how do we 572 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,760 stand out and tell our story in that little shopping ads, which 573 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:45,960 is not easy. I, I've written a few white 574 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:47,800 papers on it published over the next few months. 575 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,800 So I'll certainly send you one James and flag it to other 576 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,880 people. But yeah, just showing examples 577 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,400 where brands have really started to stand apart whilst also 578 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,120 adhering to Google's guidelines. But it's still is a product with 579 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:01,480 some review rating and a price and it's so lit and a title and 580 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:03,640 it's so limiting what you can do on that Google Shopping listing. 581 00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:06,880 And then I think one of the one of the challenges brands really, 582 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,000 really have on social, which, given that you've done it 583 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:11,200 organically, is, is not a problem for you guys right now, 584 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,720 but certainly in paid social and I see brands this a lot is 585 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,160 almost becoming too experiential with it. 586 00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:19,240 We've had some clients go what we, you know, we spent five days 587 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,600 shooting this incredible set of videos and we watch it. 588 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,000 And I, I devil's advocate over here comes along and my, my 589 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,160 personality type is the beta. So even if I agree with someone, 590 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:30,360 I'll look at the other side and go, well, look, this is what 591 00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,360 people would, you know, come against that. 592 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,200 So are we ready for that? Are we still standing strong 593 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,520 sort of thing in the in the balance of this conversation? 594 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,280 But you look at it and I'm like, it doesn't even say we sell 595 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,680 clothing anymore. It talks so much about like 596 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,880 travelling the world or transport links or this feels 597 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,840 more like a bank. It feels more like something you 598 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,720 take in your pocket with you wherever you go, rather than 599 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,960 showing like the stitching on the T-shirt to be like, it's 600 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,720 really good T-shirt for travel. Or in your case actually, it's 601 00:29:55,720 --> 00:29:57,960 like, you know, we've launched this brand to help people with 602 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,000 autism and our products also reflect that in this way. 603 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,680 It's trying to get those reels and you won't get it right first 604 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,600 time. As you say, never stop learning. 605 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,720 There are definitely experts and specialists on things, but no 606 00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:11,200 one's perfect, you know, It's that constant refining and 607 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,360 testing basis for sure. Nice. 608 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:17,240 Well what we're going to do, we're going to finish with 609 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,600 something a bit exciting, which we don't always do on the show, 610 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,360 but I've got it in my notes and I thought you know what, we'll 611 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,240 do it today. So James, I got 4 quick fire 612 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:26,440 questions for you as well. So we want to get one word 613 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,080 answers with any funny stories that come with them as well. 614 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,520 So first one, what was your first product you ever sold and 615 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,000 why did you sell that product? It was a sorry it's not one word 616 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,240 answer. Hoodie love needs no words 617 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,920 hoodie. That's our most popular product 618 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,360 and that was definitely our first one. 619 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,560 So that's nice. I mean, how did you come up with 620 00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:48,640 that? How did you come up with that 621 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,160 slow go? Obviously it relates to autism 622 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,960 itself, but. Yeah, so love needs no words. 623 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,680 That's you know, that that is really about my boys. 624 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,280 Like I said earlier on, they're both non speaking. 625 00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:04,040 They they have no spoken words. So that's, you know, that ties 626 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:05,720 in massively with the autism community. 627 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:09,320 About sort of 2025% of the people are, are non verbal. 628 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:14,560 And what I've learnt from them is that they communicate in so 629 00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,520 many different ways. You know, we're still able to 630 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,000 communicate very well together, We're still able to understand 631 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,120 each other and we're definitely able to show love. 632 00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:23,720 And that's where where that comes from. 633 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,480 Love needs no words. So many different, different 634 00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,080 people. Yeah, yeah. 635 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:30,880 So if anyone's sitting there struggling to write a product 636 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,040 description, this is how you write a good product 637 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,040 description, as you start with a good product for a good cause 638 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,800 and a good reason, and it comes. It comes quite easily. 639 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,680 How would you describe your brand, if you can in one word? 640 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,040 Community. Community, love that, love that 641 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,160 question 3 then most unexpected message you've ever received 642 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:55,880 from a customer. So it was very unexpected, but 643 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:02,280 it's now become actually about 10 Times Now of people sending 644 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:06,360 me pictures of them having love needs no words tattooed on their 645 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:07,680 arms and their. Tattooed. 646 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:11,400 Yeah, design. Oh my gosh, there's about, 647 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,000 there's about 10 people out there with our design tattooed 648 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,200 on their arms and legs. So yes, that's very unexpected. 649 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:20,800 Nice. We've had a few good ones over 650 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:22,360 the years. No one has ever said if we've 651 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,720 had one of our slogans tattooed on someone's arm or leg. 652 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,800 That is absolutely amazing. And final point then, so 653 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,480 obviously you run a clothing range. 654 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,240 You need to do a lot of designing to design the 655 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,720 clothing, make it look good. Do you drink tea or coffee while 656 00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,000 you're designing or another drink? 657 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,400 Neither because I don't drink tea or neither, no. 658 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,160 So probably a Coke 0 is my go to. 659 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,840 Nice, nice. We have fridges stacked to the 660 00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,080 stuff in our in our office, little cans of Coke 0. 661 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,600 So, yeah, big favorite from us. And well, look, James, it's been 662 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:51,720 so good to talk to you. An incredible journey. 663 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,040 All the best with everything. And you know, we want to see 664 00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,840 this, see this thing grow. So we might get you back in a 665 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,240 year or another 18 months and see how things have evolved. 666 00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,440 If someone's listening again, James, I want to follow you. 667 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:02,040 I also want to follow the clothing brand. 668 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:03,480 I want to reach out, see your website. 669 00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:04,720 Like, how can I get in touch with you? 670 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:05,880 How can I get on board with your journey? 671 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,560 Yeah. So best place is Instagram or or 672 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:17,480 Facebook SAA clothing is the so it's at S dot A dot a clothing. 673 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,680 Thanks to someone else having that name and not using it. 674 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,640 And. Yes, my personal brand is 675 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,520 stories about autism. Stories about autism. 676 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:28,600 Awesome. Well, thank you so much, James. 677 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:30,160 It's been great to you. Great to have you on the show 678 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,080 and I really appreciate your time. 679 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:31,920 Yeah. Thank you, Nick. 680 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,320 It's been great. Cool and for everyone listening 681 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,160 at home, we will be joining another guest next week. 682 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,120 So make sure you tune in. We will have, I don't know which 683 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,240 episode's going out next week, but I've got like 6 to record 684 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,360 this week alone. So yeah, stay tuned. 685 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:44,560 Some amazing things happening again. 686 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,000 Join our meet up group on meetup.com. 687 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,880 It's called the London Shopify Merchant meet up or some 688 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,680 different combination of those 4 words. 689 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,120 It's definitely Shopify meet up London and it's merchants only 690 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:56,560 as always. And go and join the growth hub 691 00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:57,920 if you haven't already. Thanks for tuning in. 692 00:33:57,920 --> 00:33:58,640 See you guys next week.