1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,280 Welcome everyone to Buying Local. 2 00:00:02,280 --> 00:00:06,120 I'm your host Mike Nelson from 5 Towers Media and I'm joined 3 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,640 today by And Kim. I always say this on every 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,440 episode pretty much because I mess up everybody's name. 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:15,800 It's I'm. Going to I'm going to pronounce 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:19,200 how it reads. It's it's Kim Hans from Herzog 7 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:20,120 Law firm. Yeah. 8 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:22,520 Yeah, I got it right. I always say it's like Chance 9 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:25,040 without the C on front. Just chance. 10 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:26,680 There you go. Perfect. 11 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,400 Well, thank you so much for jumping on with me. 12 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,560 I'm really excited about our conversation today. 13 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:34,360 Yeah, I am too. If you don't mind, why don't you 14 00:00:34,360 --> 00:00:37,280 just kind of go ahead and tell us you know, a little bit about 15 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,480 who you are and and what you're doing over at Herzog? 16 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,680 Sure. So so my background, so Kim Hans 17 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,880 and I am my professional term is an aging life care manager. 18 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,240 What that means is I sort of specialize in all things getting 19 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,920 older. So I've spent the majority of 20 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:07,160 my, and I, and I love when I say this, my multi decade career and 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,840 in really providing services to older adults. 22 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,920 From the time I've graduated from college, I've worked sort 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:19,000 of in the nursing home system, assisted living, memory care, 24 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:21,600 independent living. I've done home care. 25 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,360 I took a little bit of a break and worked with the homeless, 26 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,000 HIV, AIDS, AIDS population. But really my passion has always 27 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:34,120 been older adults and helping navigate the systems for those 28 00:01:34,440 --> 00:01:40,440 that population. So when upstate, I've worked for 29 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,520 the Alzheimer's Association and then from there that kind of led 30 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,200 me to my position here at the law firm. 31 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,960 So and I've been here for about 8 years now and really love what 32 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:54,640 I do. Yeah, I'm curious, you know, it 33 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,560 sounds like you're very passionate about who you work 34 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,760 with and how you help them. It is. 35 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,200 Is that just, I mean, did you just kind of fall into it, into 36 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,080 it or why are you so passionate about it? 37 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,800 I've always had a bit of a soft spot for older folks, and I 38 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,680 think a lot of it just stems from early on in my career, 39 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:19,680 working in a nursing home in particular, I think we forget 40 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:26,960 sometimes the the wisdom and the lives, the remarkable lives that 41 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,920 a lot of our older adults have had. 42 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:36,400 A lot of times our paths don't cross an older adult until maybe 43 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,600 they have an issue or there's a problem or maybe they're not 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:44,840 functioning fully. I also started developing a 45 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,800 passion because I think a lot of times you learn a lot about 46 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:50,960 somebody when you read their obituary, right? 47 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,640 And I know that sounds really morbid, but a lot of times 48 00:02:53,640 --> 00:02:56,240 people be like, gosh, I never really knew that about that 49 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:57,760 person, right? Because again, they weren't 50 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:00,520 meeting them until later life. And so you're really only seeing 51 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:02,720 that person as they're presenting at that time. 52 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:09,080 So in this position, I certainly am dealing with folks in at that 53 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:13,000 time, but I'm also trying to learn about who they are because 54 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,440 for me, that's a big part of being able to preserve some of 55 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:21,400 that dignity that folks should have an older life. 56 00:03:21,640 --> 00:03:25,640 Anytime I work with a family, I always say like, you know, we 57 00:03:25,640 --> 00:03:30,640 refer to this stage as the, as the golden years, but I feel 58 00:03:30,640 --> 00:03:34,040 like a lot of times our, our folks don't feel that way, 59 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:35,520 right? They're, they're really feeling 60 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,080 beat down by whatever it is that they're dealing with, whether 61 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:42,520 it's a chronic illness, family dynamics, you know, decisions 62 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,880 that are having to be made around finances or just, you 63 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,360 know, just all the things that kind of come tumbling down sort 64 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,880 of in that last chapter. So, so big part of my passion is 65 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:58,360 really wanting to help people meet whatever that aging goal is 66 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:00,480 and make it the the best that it can be for them. 67 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:04,560 Really to to help make it truly be the golden years, right not. 68 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:09,120 Yeah, or at least, you know, put a little spit on it and tarnish 69 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:10,600 it up a little bit. You know I mean. 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,440 You can't always make it perfect for everybody, right? 71 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,839 But it's at least knowing that folks have options and at least 72 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,480 know all of the different resources that can help them get 73 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:25,400 to certain places. Cause a lot, a lot of times 74 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:27,240 people just aren't even having conversations. 75 00:04:27,840 --> 00:04:30,040 And it's helping families navigate through that too. 76 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:34,000 Cause a lot of times it's the kids that I get a phone call 77 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,600 from and they're like, my parents can no longer live like 78 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,360 this. You know, with the, the crossed 79 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:42,400 arms and you have to tell them that they can't. 80 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,520 And a lot of times it's sort of it's negotiating, right? 81 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,160 It's it's saying, well, I know it might not be ideal, right? 82 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,800 But this is how they're choosing at this moment and we can try to 83 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,640 support them to the best that we can. 84 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:00,560 I think sometimes going in Blazing Saddles and saying, you, 85 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,560 you can't do this is, is really, you know, it's going to cause 86 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,280 somebody to really put the brakes on, dig in their heels 87 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:09,160 and sometimes make situations worse. 88 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,920 So I do a lot of mediating as well. 89 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:18,680 So yeah. So Kim, tell us a little bit 90 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:22,600 about the Herzog Law firm so we can kind of put this in context 91 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,560 as far as you bring to the table for Herzog. 92 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:32,520 So, but I feel like I know we've had Phil on the show and we 93 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,680 should probably just put some context as far as what Herzog 94 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:35,600 does. So what? 95 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,400 Yeah, no, the overview. Yeah, of course. 96 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:42,800 So, you know, in the, in the big broad spectrum of things, we're 97 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:44,720 in a state planning elder law firm. 98 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,640 You know, we, we do things all. And when people hear that word 99 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,360 estate planning, they're kind of like, they kind of get lost in 100 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,720 that word because you know, what's the first thing you think 101 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:55,120 of when you hear the word estate? 102 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,560 You think, oh, it's people who have a lot of money. 103 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:01,760 But really what it boils down to is it's we really help people 104 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,560 and really we say anyone 18 and older should have the beginnings 105 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:08,360 of an estate plan. And that's just your basic 106 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,120 healthcare proxy power of attorney. 107 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,160 You know, it could include a will, but that's sort of your 108 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,320 basic estate planning, right? It's healthcare, healthcare 109 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:20,240 proxy, power of attorney and and a will Beyond that, you know, we 110 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:24,440 really work with families to help them with maybe younger 111 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,800 kids, you know, who's going, you know, should something 112 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,160 unfortunate happen, what's the plan for those kids help put 113 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,320 something like that. But we really specialize in 114 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:35,840 elder law and what does that mean? 115 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:41,160 So elder law really is the focus on, you know, when we're talking 116 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:45,040 about folks retirement, maybe a little bit pre retirement, 117 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:50,120 retirement, looking at how do you want the rest of the time 118 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,080 that you've been working for look like for you? 119 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,800 Do you want to preserve assets for the younger generation, 120 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,440 maybe for kids, grandkids? Do you have a plan for what 121 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,840 should happen if you need long term care? 122 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:06,240 And a lot of times when people hear that word, long term care, 123 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,440 they just think nursing home, there's so much more that goes 124 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,240 into long term care. And you know, anytime I'm out in 125 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,000 the community doing any kind of education, I always say like, 126 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:19,400 you know, whose plan is to go to the nursing home and nobody ever 127 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,480 raises a hand, right? So nobody ever plans for that to 128 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,440 be where they're going to end up. 129 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:29,720 Unfortunately, what ends up happening is it's, it's the 130 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:32,760 unfortunate part of, of getting older is it sometimes does 131 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,520 become part of the plan. So we really want to have 132 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,560 conversations with folks early on to really talk about what 133 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:42,440 your wishes are, what that could look like for you. 134 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,960 Do you plan on staying in this the, you know, maybe you have a 135 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,560 generational home that you've lived in for many, many years. 136 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,240 Is it your plan to stay there? What could that look like for 137 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:55,080 you? Do you plan to downsize? 138 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,680 When do you think you might make plans to do that? 139 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,520 Do you want to travel like? So we incorporate all of that 140 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:03,800 into sort of the estate plan because again, we want to make 141 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,840 sure that people have enough sort of to live the life that 142 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,280 they want to live as they retire and get older, but they also 143 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,840 have the ability to access some of the services that they could 144 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:16,840 need. You know, we're living, we're, 145 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,880 we're in a generation now where we've got people living much 146 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:24,960 longer than they ever have and needing care also for a much 147 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,000 longer period of time because medicine has come so far. 148 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,960 People are not always living better, I think. 149 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:34,559 And so it's having those conversations with folks too, to 150 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,440 really understand what their goals of care are and kind of 151 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,679 teasing out what they do or don't want. 152 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,760 So, you know, from an estate planning elder law firm, we 153 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,960 really are focused on sort of all these aging issues, what it 154 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:50,600 encompasses, what resources are out there. 155 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,880 How can we help you navigate and sort of get to the place where 156 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,680 you want to be and plan ahead? I mean, we love collaborating 157 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:02,480 with other professionals like financial advisors, other, you 158 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,840 know, long term care planning resources because we're all 159 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,440 players sort of on the same team and everybody sort of has a job 160 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:14,520 and we all have to kind of communicate to really help make 161 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:18,040 sure that that person's that individual's goals are, are met. 162 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:24,440 OK, now I, you know, I, when I first met you, I got it. 163 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:26,600 It must have been like maybe six or seven months ago, I think. 164 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:29,160 I know time flies, right? Very quickly, yes. 165 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,720 And you know, one of the things I I thought was really 166 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:34,600 interesting is what you're bringing to the table, 'cause 167 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,160 you're not a lawyer, right? No, no I'm not. 168 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:42,600 So, you know, primarily a state law is all lawyers and again, 169 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:47,200 lawyers are great, you know, not saying that, but but I thought 170 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,600 it was really interesting that Herzog has you as a part of this 171 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,200 process. And so I'm curious, you know, 172 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:59,320 obviously this is a pretty unique offering as far as a 173 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,760 state law in our area. I'm sure maybe there's other 174 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:05,520 firms somewhere that do this, but I know locally I'm not aware 175 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,280 of any. But how, where do you plug in 176 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,360 with that process with the attorneys and coming in? 177 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,560 Yep. So you know, we always talk 178 00:10:15,560 --> 00:10:18,000 about how, how things sort of morph, right? 179 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,040 You know, originally when I first started with the firm, it 180 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:25,400 was really to kind of focus on. So one of the things that we do 181 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,280 a lot of is Medicaid. So whether it be nursing home or 182 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,520 community based services. So one of the one of the 183 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,280 offerings that I, I brought. So to your point, I'm not an 184 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:35,560 attorney. I'm a social worker and a 185 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:39,000 certified case manager and that's sort of the role I was 186 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,080 playing with the Alzheimer's Association. 187 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:45,960 I'm what was sort of doing care consultations, information 188 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:47,160 referral and all that kind of stuff. 189 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,800 And it started working with Herzog as sort of my expert law 190 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:53,840 firm and talking about what some of the issues are that you as we 191 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,120 age, particularly with a chronic illness like Alzheimer's 192 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,960 dementia, like what sort of planning do you need to think 193 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:00,960 about? What do you need to put in 194 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:03,040 place? And it was just very symbiotic, 195 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,600 right? Like just worked really well 196 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:10,080 together. And so, you know, Herzog does, 197 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,440 we really specialize in community Medicaid as well and 198 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,360 that's really accessing services in the community because as I 199 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:19,960 said before, most people, you know, nursing home is not where 200 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,280 they want to be. So let's plan for being at home 201 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,000 or in the community where, you know, there is actually a robust 202 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,120 amount of of services available. And so originally that was sort 203 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:32,880 of where I came in was to really help to navigate that piece 204 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:36,920 because it's really easy to get somebody Medicaid, believe it or 205 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,600 not. The hard part, and this is what 206 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:43,160 I always say to families is, is then really understanding what's 207 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,280 available and getting to the right spot because there are 208 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:49,000 multiple programs. There are lots of agencies, 209 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,480 There are, you know, I don't know if you've ever had an 210 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,440 experience with a loved one, but going to the hospital and you're 211 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:59,040 getting discharged, they give you a list of like 20 resources 212 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,360 and you don't even know where to start, right? 213 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,960 So a lot of what I do is kind of cut the chase. 214 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,040 I know who the resources are, I know who the players are. 215 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:09,960 So I'm immediately calling folks and kind of getting that in 216 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:14,400 place for our clients. So they're not having, they can 217 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,000 really deal. They're already dealing with 218 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:19,800 being a caregiver, which is can be a 24/7 roll. 219 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:24,320 So then to task them with, well, now you need to know what plan 220 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:26,760 you need to choose. And now you need to know what 221 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,560 program is going to be best for your loved one. 222 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:31,680 And now you need to know how to advocate for the right agency. 223 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:34,800 And now you need to know like, you know, you need to understand 224 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,160 the language and nuances so that all these programs deliver. 225 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:41,720 You would think that there was a source out there that would do 226 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:43,480 that, but but there really isn't. 227 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:48,680 So I think it was really thoughtful and, and really sort 228 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:54,240 of a great add on for the guys here to really be like, you 229 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,440 know, we want to help our clients sort of finish the 230 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,920 process, not just start it, but really finish it and actually 231 00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:02,840 get the services that that that they're entitled to. 232 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,680 Prior to that, for 20 years I've been doing what's called private 233 00:13:07,680 --> 00:13:10,000 care management services. So really that means it's not 234 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:12,520 attached to anything. So it's not attached to, you 235 00:13:12,520 --> 00:13:16,160 know, being part of the law firm, which people can actually 236 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,040 get through us as well. So it's not just a Medicaid 237 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:22,240 application. Folks can come and get care 238 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,360 management because they have a loved one, maybe family lives 239 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,920 far away and they need somebody that's eyes and ears to be able 240 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,080 to help coordinate services, to be able to make sure the 241 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,880 services are are being, you know, followed through on to 242 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:39,120 advocate with maybe some multiple physicians that a 243 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:41,640 client might have. I mean, most of our folks as 244 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,600 they get older, you're seeing four or five docs, right? 245 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:49,080 And a lot of times we don't know why somebody's prescribing 246 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,760 something. You know what if it is helpful 247 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,720 or more beneficial. So it's really, you know, it's a 248 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,720 very holistic model, right? So I know a lot about finances, 249 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,960 legal, medical, you know, housing. 250 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,840 So my job is really pulling all of those pieces together and 251 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:13,320 putting together a plan for somebody so that they can, you 252 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:16,040 know, ultimately remain independent as long as possible 253 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,560 because that's really what most people want. 254 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,280 So for some people that might be hiring some outside help, for 255 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,880 some folks that might be looking at assistive technology, which 256 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,640 technology now is amazing. You know, I, I love going in and 257 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:33,560 helping people, you know, get their homes in a place where it, 258 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,440 it can be more user friendly for them when maybe their doctor is 259 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:39,960 telling them it's time to move or their kids are telling them 260 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,560 it's time to move because their house is no longer, you know, 261 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:46,280 accessible for them. There are lots of things that we 262 00:14:46,280 --> 00:14:49,080 can do, you know, that are small. 263 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,520 So for some people it might be bigger, right, if they can't get 264 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,400 upstairs anymore and your bedrooms and bathroom are all 265 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,120 upstairs. But there's still ways for us to 266 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,400 look at maybe retrofitting that house. 267 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:02,040 Or maybe that is when we start having the conversation about 268 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,400 downsizing. And in a lot of situations, I 269 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:08,440 can come at it from the angle where I'm working with the 270 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:12,320 individuals to, to say, what is it you see as a deficit and a 271 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,360 need and how can I help you get there? 272 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,560 A lot of times when it's our kids telling us that we can't, 273 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,000 then they're not really willing to have the conversation. 274 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,280 And so when you've got somebody that's coming in that's neutral, 275 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,240 and a lot of times it will, you know, that's what kids will say. 276 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,960 It's like, how did you get them to change their mind or how did 277 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,440 you get them to make them? And I was like, I really just 278 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,600 came at it and from a different approach. 279 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,200 And and they don't push my buttons, right. 280 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,760 I mean, I have parents that live. 281 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,240 My dad passed away last year, but you know, aging parents that 282 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:49,720 needed a lot. I had to hire a care manager 283 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:53,200 down in North Carolina because my parents were just not willing 284 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,600 to hear what I have almost 40 years worth of knowledge doing, 285 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,440 right. So, so a lot of times, you know, 286 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:05,560 we're still kids, how could we possibly know what is best, you 287 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,080 know, sort of thing. So a lot of times it's helpful 288 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,040 having that outside person really. 289 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:13,960 And that's why I say a lot of times I spend a lot of time 290 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:16,680 mediating, right? It's really hearing all sides 291 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:19,280 and helping everybody kind of come together with a, a, a 292 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,760 common goal and a common plan. Just sometimes you'd look at it 293 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:23,920 a little differently. So. 294 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,400 Well, it sounds like, you know, it kind of softens the 295 00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,640 conversation that kids are trying to have with their 296 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,160 parents, right, 'cause you, you don't have any skin in the game. 297 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,760 You're not there with an agenda. You're just there to take in the 298 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,640 information and make a recommendation as a professional 299 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,480 without any ulterior motive whatsoever, right? 300 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,600 It sounds and, and am I correct? I mean, so you engage with 301 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:52,200 clients, they may not be coming to Herzog for an estate plan. 302 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,200 They may just need new services and you're able to engage with 303 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,040 them in those. Yeah. 304 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,720 So we had, you know, we have the Medicaid branch of it and then 305 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,640 we have just the the stand alone. 306 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,280 So folks don't need to be getting any kind of legal 307 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,319 assistance from us. They might have their plans in 308 00:17:06,319 --> 00:17:10,880 place and a lot of times, you know, we'll offer consultations 309 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,359 to anybody to review their documents just to make sure that 310 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,200 they do align. Because again, there's a big 311 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,560 difference between somebody who does estate planning and 312 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,040 somebody who does elder law estate planning, right? 313 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,079 Because we are really looking at that long term care piece. 314 00:17:23,079 --> 00:17:26,520 We're really looking ahead and kind of being like, what can we 315 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:30,240 set up to make sure that in the future you'll be OK, right? 316 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,920 You can either access whatever services are available. 317 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,440 Let's talk about, you know, are you a veteran and maybe you 318 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,760 haven't accessed the VA system? Let's talk about what that could 319 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:40,680 look like and what they might be able to offer you. 320 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:45,280 So and it's, it's knowing what each nuance is in every 321 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,400 community too. So you know, we have offices in 322 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,040 Kingston, Albany, Saratoga and Queensbury now. 323 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,840 And I move between all of those offices. 324 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:58,120 So I basically say we, you know, we provide services between the 325 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:01,600 Mid Hudson Valley and the Canadian border and every 326 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,920 community is very unique. And I'm really lucky that I've 327 00:18:05,920 --> 00:18:09,760 worked a lot in the North Country in the Capital Region 328 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:11,880 and now the Hudson Valley with this job. 329 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:17,280 So having a broad knowledge of what's out there and, and really 330 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:22,000 how each, you know, community sort of plays into helping 331 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,600 support an individual and in their own community is really 332 00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:28,480 helpful and really beneficial. I mean, you know, it's much 333 00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:31,680 different when I visit somebody out in Washington County versus 334 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,880 somebody that I would meet in Schenectady, NY, right? 335 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,840 So it's really understanding how each of those community work 336 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,880 and, and knowing the players in each of those communities so you 337 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,920 can make the connections a little bit easier and make it 338 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,640 better for those families so they're not sitting there, you 339 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:49,280 know, worried about what's going to happen. 340 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,600 Yeah. And so so you go to their homes. 341 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:56,960 Oh yeah, that's a big, you know, that's a big, big part of of 342 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:00,600 what I do. So doing home visits, it's it's 343 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:04,840 multi purposed in a lot of situations for me to be able to 344 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,800 put eyes on somebody's house to help them understand what kinds 345 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,400 of things we could do to make make it more livable for them, 346 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:15,640 make it safer, make it, you know, more accessible, you know, 347 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:16,920 just make things a little bit easier. 348 00:19:16,920 --> 00:19:19,600 And then what are some of the resources that we might be able 349 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,240 to utilize to make that house more friendly for for an 350 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,560 individual? A lot of times it tells the 351 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,480 story about how somebody's doing as well, right? 352 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,320 Because you know, you can see things piling up on a counter. 353 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,480 You know, a lot of times I'll open the refrigerator and if 354 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,840 there's a, a strong odor of something like there are lots of 355 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,920 little quiet things that tell me a lot. 356 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:47,760 So when I'm doing a home visit, it really like I, I feel like 357 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,520 I'm doing a little bit of a detective work, but it's it, it 358 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,040 really does tell a story. If somebody's still driving, you 359 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,800 know, I make sure to make a take a look at the car because I'm 360 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,920 looking for a little dents or scratches because that tells me. 361 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,040 A lot if somebody is if their hubcaps are really torn up, 362 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,920 they're really, you know, parking by touch and not really 363 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,920 by what you know, And it's just those little things. 364 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,320 So it's those little things that can really help me kind of put 365 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:17,320 together a puzzle. You know, kids, our families are 366 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,560 really far removed now. We, we don't live in the same 367 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:22,560 towns. We're not, you know, getting 368 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,360 together every Sunday for dinner like we used to. 369 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,680 And it's, it's just the nature of the beast. 370 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,280 So a lot of times when you're reliant on a, on a phone call 371 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:34,080 and a weekly phone call and your, your individual that 372 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:36,000 you're taking care of is like, oh, no, I'm good. 373 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,280 Everything's great. You know, sometimes just doing 374 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,400 that visit, you're like, oh, wow. 375 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,000 Like I, I see so many things that, you know, haven't been 376 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:49,920 taken care of for a while or, you know, there's some red flags 377 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,040 of, of things that we kind of need to, to address for folks. 378 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,680 What I so you're, you're primarily working. 379 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,920 I shouldn't say you're you're I would imagine that a lot of your 380 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,560 initial communication is with the children, right? 381 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:08,720 And they're. Situations, yes, but 382 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:11,760 interestingly enough, I have more and more clients more and 383 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:17,000 more actual folks that are starting to think about what 384 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,880 they want and and doing a lot. So this is a big generational 385 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:24,480 change also, right. This is a big change between 386 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:27,960 baby boomers and sort of our silent generation that we're 387 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:35,560 sort of moving out of right now. The older baby boomer generation 388 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,720 is to still conservative, still kind of quiet. 389 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,800 They don't share a lot of their information because I think 390 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:46,160 that's the other hard part is, you know, particularly, you 391 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,040 know, our World War Two generation, they were very quiet 392 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,720 about things. They didn't discuss medical, 393 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,320 they didn't discuss finances. They didn't, you know, none, 394 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,080 none of that. So, so we're moving into an 395 00:21:57,080 --> 00:22:00,000 interesting time where, where we're working with a, a, you 396 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:04,960 know, a, a span of, of a generation that does talk about 397 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,640 those things, has sort of planned, has sort of thought 398 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:10,880 about it, sort of saw how their parents did things and don't 399 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,200 want to end up that way. So they are starting to think a 400 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:18,760 little bit earlier about, you know, what I want to do, how, 401 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:21,480 you know, how do I want this to look like for me? 402 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,160 I don't want to end up in a situation where I, I don't have 403 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,080 to say, or I can't really make the decision for myself because 404 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:31,640 I waited too long. So, so I do have, you know, I 405 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,560 see it changing, particularly since the pandemic. 406 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,920 You know, a lot of people are thinking more about how they 407 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,080 want to age and sort of what they want for themselves. 408 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,720 So that's been that's been interesting for sure. 409 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,520 Yeah, it's interesting about the the baby boomer generation, so 410 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:54,720 many things that are happening with them coming to retirement. 411 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:57,880 And, you know, and you know that we talked about it pretty often 412 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,880 as far as the number of businesses out there that don't 413 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,280 necessarily have a legacy plan. And it's the baby boomers that 414 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,360 own these businesses and they've been building them for 30-40 415 00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,480 years. And now they're at retirement or 416 00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:11,720 nearing retirement. And they're like, well, I guess 417 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,160 I'm just going to close up the doors. 418 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,800 And, you know, so similarly with with what you do with that elder 419 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,640 care, it's like, you know, they're they're coming to that 420 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:21,080 point. There's a lot of them, right? 421 00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:25,360 And there's a. Yeah, like you know the the 422 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,680 statistic right now, so AARP, the we have 10,000 people 423 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:35,120 turning 65 every day between now and 2030. 424 00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,400 Yes, Yeah. And it's the first, yeah, it's 425 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,840 the first time in history where we have more folks on the aging 426 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,880 side than we have on like the 18 to 25 year old side. 427 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,800 So if there's really there's an unbalance of, of you know, 428 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,040 what's happening and we already live in a time, you know, in our 429 00:23:56,040 --> 00:24:00,520 area, well, it's actually system wide because so I belong to 430 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,560 national organization, Aging Life Care Association and there 431 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:06,520 are aging life care managers all over the country. 432 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,880 And we all have the same conversation in that there's not 433 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,560 enough resources for the number of people that are are getting 434 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,960 older, right? Nursing homes have weights, 435 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,000 assisted livings have, you know, six months to a year wait. 436 00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:27,640 Independent living communities even, you know, active 55 plus a 437 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,160 lot of them are starting to develop wait lists. 438 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,240 So for a lot of our folks, if you're not putting a plan in 439 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:35,960 place early, you're kind of getting stuck. 440 00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,080 For those folks who really want to just, you know, dig their 441 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,320 heels in and I want to be in my house feet and you know, I want 442 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,120 to go out feet first. Home care is a struggle. 443 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,320 You know, like home care agencies don't have the staff. 444 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,680 The staff really can pick and choose who they will and won't 445 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,120 work with. So it's been an interesting time 446 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,000 to provide services. I mean, when I first started my 447 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,880 career, it was completely the the other way around, you know, 448 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:08,600 like home care agencies were really looking for clients and, 449 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,080 and now home care agencies can't, they can't staff cases. 450 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:15,560 I mean, they might have somebody who's a 24/7, which, you know, 451 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:19,280 it's great, but if you don't have the staff to, to do it. 452 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,200 So, you know, again, when I'm working with families, it's also 453 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,520 very dependent on where they live, right? 454 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,400 Making a plan for somebody who lives out in the, you know, even 455 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,480 more rural areas of Saratoga County. 456 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:36,680 It's it's hard because people don't want to drive 2530 minutes 457 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:38,240 to get to work, you know, every day. 458 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,320 And then you throw in winter, you know, it becomes even a 459 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,960 bigger challenge. So it really is sort of helping. 460 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,920 And that's why, you know, kind of getting back to that home 461 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,640 visit question, why it's great for me to put eyes on, on where 462 00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:56,160 people are because I can really help assess almost immediately 463 00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,800 what kind of home care we're going to need to be looking at 464 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,680 if if that's where that person is at the point. 465 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,480 I mean, you know, I've had several people that their 466 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:10,400 driveways are a mile long and, you know, so, you know, how do 467 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,080 we get that clean? How do we get somebody in on a 468 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,400 bad day? And so it's just it's looking at 469 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,560 all those things that kind of. You really do look at 470 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,720 everything. Yes, 100%. 471 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,760 You know who gets the mail, who brings the paper up, right? 472 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,240 Like it's, it's, it's, it's looking at all those things. 473 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,520 How do we do the grocery shopping? 474 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:32,320 How do we pick up medications? How you know it's it's really 475 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:35,480 looking at the whole the whole system and how it works. 476 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:38,800 You must have a very long checklist for folks when you. 477 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,640 Yeah. Yeah. 478 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,160 And, and it changes, you know, it changes dependent, you know, 479 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:46,120 it changes all on how, on what somebody wants and what they 480 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:48,640 need. So, yeah, but it's fun because 481 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:50,720 it's ever changing, right? It's not the same thing every 482 00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,160 day. So that's one of the things I 483 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,520 really love. Every situation is a little 484 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:59,280 unique, but so when when people want to when they start working 485 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:01,600 with you, whether it's the children are going to start the 486 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,240 process with you or the adults themselves are going to like, 487 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:06,960 what is what is it? What does it look like to like 488 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:09,920 they just call you up and say hey, come, come to the house or? 489 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:12,640 Yeah. So a lot of times it's a it's a 490 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:14,160 conversation on the phone, right. 491 00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,720 So it's sort of just talking about what, what led them to 492 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,600 kind of even pick up the phone and call. 493 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,840 And a lot of times it will, you know, from the from the get go, 494 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,880 it might be a home visit. Sometimes it's meeting in the 495 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,280 office. Sometimes they think they need 496 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,280 to talk to me, but they really need to talk to the attorney 497 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:34,440 first, right. And that's where I love like our 498 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,440 team approach is, I'll say to folks like really at this point, 499 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:43,000 we sort of need to kind of understand where everything is 500 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,360 even financially right. So let's schedule a time where 501 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:47,640 you can meet with one of our attorneys. 502 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,920 Let's talk, you know, get your financial advisor or whoever's 503 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,160 dealing with your finances. And I'm not, so we can kind of 504 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,080 talk about that because again, you can't really formulate a 505 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,440 good plan for somebody if you don't know what the financial 506 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:04,680 system is, right? And then let's talk about what 507 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,080 that means, you know, moving forward. 508 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,160 And then a lot of times that's when I'll come in and be like, 509 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,040 OK, we have a clearer picture of really where everything is. 510 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,120 And let's talk about, you know, moving forward, what what that 511 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:17,360 can look like. You know, what the options are, 512 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,520 you know, from an affordability standpoint, but even from a 513 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,880 practical standpoint, right? Like somebody might be able to 514 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:28,080 afford all the care in the world, but if their home's not 515 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:33,560 accessible or it's not really set up, let's talk about what 516 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,880 that means and what we'd have to do or what are some other 517 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,160 options outside of that, Right? So. 518 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,440 So, So what would be some indicators that people in these 519 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,600 situations should say like, hey, I should call Kim at Herzog? 520 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,520 So we're right. We're actually entering into 521 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,320 that busy season where you know, families are starting to get 522 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:56,480 together, right? And you know, a lot of times, 523 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,440 like I said, you've been having ongoing phone calls and you 524 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,640 know, mom and dad seem great like because there's that 525 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,040 memorized conversation that you have that you're talking about 526 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,560 the grandkids or you're talking about vacation or whatever, 527 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:15,640 right? And so families come in and 528 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,280 there are definitely some telltale signs. 529 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,920 I think that a lot that you can look out for, right? 530 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,920 It's like I said earlier, it's things that are kind of stacked 531 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,560 up and not really gone through. Maybe there's some unpaid bills, 532 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,000 maybe. You know, I always say if you 533 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,840 can stay at the house, you should stay at the house. 534 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,800 Even though it may not be your typical plan, stay at the house 535 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:38,920 because you're really going to see how they move throughout the 536 00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,280 day. And a lot of these situations, 537 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,680 folks can pull it together for a few hours, but it's that long 538 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,200 term, you know, it's over several days that you start to 539 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,520 see that there are some discrepancies. 540 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,400 You know, look at how they're taking their medications. 541 00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,720 You know, don't ask, maybe just observe. 542 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,320 You know, that's what I tell a lot of families when they're, 543 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,000 when they're coming in after a period of time is just really 544 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,040 sit back, watch, observe. You know, it could be that 545 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:07,920 somebody maybe doesn't hear as well. 546 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,520 So maybe they're missing a lot of what's happening. 547 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,920 So they don't really understand maybe some of the instructions 548 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:15,600 that they were given at the doctor. 549 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:19,040 So there are just a lot of little things that we can pick 550 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,720 up on that we can really help facilitate without a lot of 551 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:29,000 disruption for folks, you know, cause a lot of times people are 552 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,240 like, Oh my God, it's falling apart. 553 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,120 We need, you know, like they can't live in their house 554 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,360 anymore. When it's as simple as like if 555 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,760 we got somebody in to fix a couple of nutritional meals a 556 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,760 week, If we had somebody kind of take over paying the bills or 557 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:48,520 getting them on auto pay, even, even if you know, somebody 558 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,480 doesn't want to hand over the checkbook. 559 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,800 Well, let's talk about how we can automate it and make it just 560 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:53,960 easier for you. Right? 561 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:58,720 Let's talk about driving because sometimes driving, but driving 562 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,920 is the key to independence for a lot of folks. 563 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,080 So it's really understanding, you know, what does that mean 564 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,160 when we start having that driving conversation? 565 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:10,040 But also what does it mean if that individual really shouldn't 566 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,600 be on the road? And by being with somebody too 567 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,160 for longer periods of time, you can kind of see where from a 568 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:21,320 cognition standpoint where they may be, you know, is there, do 569 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,360 you start seeing, hearing some repeated stories, some repeated 570 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,760 things that are happening? You may not necessarily get that 571 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,240 on a phone call, on a short 10 minute phone call right when 572 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,240 you're just checking in. But by being with them, you 573 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,720 know, 2 1/2 hours over dinner, you might hear the same thing a 574 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,720 couple times. So that's sort of starting to, 575 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,480 you know, with some families kind of resonate that we might 576 00:31:46,480 --> 00:31:48,160 have a bigger issue happening here. 577 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,120 So there are lots of things that that we can kind of look at and 578 00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,040 usually like right after holidays, it's quiet because 579 00:31:57,040 --> 00:32:01,400 people are sort of having like, Oh my gosh, what do I do? 580 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,280 Right. And then the phone starts to 581 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,160 ring because, you know, they either Googled, you know, elder 582 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:13,360 care, or they might know enough to, to ask about a care manager. 583 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,760 And, and then that's usually when things get busy. 584 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,920 We also do a lot of education out in the community. 585 00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:24,680 So, you know, we're at libraries, we're at the school 586 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:29,360 systems for the continuing Ed, senior centers, talking to 587 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,120 people because sort of the last thing we want is for people to 588 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,560 call us in crisis because that's generally the worst time to be 589 00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:38,120 having these conversations, right? 590 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,880 So it it is there is it? Is there ever a time that's too 591 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,640 soon to start having those conversations? 592 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,320 Never. I love having conversations with 593 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,360 people where I just say you guys are on a really good path. 594 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:53,400 These are some of the things you should be thinking about and 595 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,080 these are some of the conversations you should be 596 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,320 having. One of the conversations I love 597 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,840 most having with people that are end of life conversations too. 598 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,480 And that's you don't have to have those. 599 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,560 You know, I, I just did a Hospice and palliative care 600 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,520 panel and one of my favorite quotes is the worst time to talk 601 00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,240 about end of life. Is it end of life? 602 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,360 You know, and when you go to an estate planning firm, you're 603 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,480 doing the healthcare proxy, the power of attorney. 604 00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:27,800 Sometimes a living will like you're not really getting into 605 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,760 the weeds about things. And so I love talking to people 606 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:36,520 about what your wishes really are and how do you want to live 607 00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:41,040 and at what point is a line need to be drawn in the sand, You 608 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,160 know, and let's share with your folks, you know, because now we 609 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,440 need to have the conversation about, you know, with the person 610 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:49,960 that you've named is your healthcare proxy. 611 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,800 And it's really helping people understand what all of that 612 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,760 means. And, you know, a lot of times we 613 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,680 get like family members, even as a healthcare proxy, they'll say, 614 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,200 well, can legal action be brought against me if I decide 615 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,280 not to continue life, right? Well, no, because that's what 616 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,080 your, your, your individual really wanted. 617 00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,679 And you're advocating for, for their wishes, you know, sort of 618 00:34:11,679 --> 00:34:13,639 thing. So a lot of times it's just 619 00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:18,120 dispelling a lot of the myths that people have and, and hold. 620 00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:24,600 And you know, I've got folks who, you know, physicians are 621 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:29,159 inundated and they're over. You know, they're spending 3 622 00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:30,960 minutes with people, sometimes 4 minutes. 623 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,199 They can't possibly get into these in depth conversations. 624 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:37,840 It's it's doing in general, like let's check in. 625 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,280 It's like, OK, here's the script that's going to treat whatever 626 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,159 this new condition or, or whatever is, you know, I'll see 627 00:34:43,159 --> 00:34:45,560 you in three or four months and out the door you go. 628 00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:50,600 And, you know, having a care manager is, it's really somebody 629 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,600 who can sit down and talk about what those goals of aging are 630 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,760 and, and goals for death and, and all of those kinds of 631 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,200 things. And it's really bringing it all 632 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,160 together and, and kind of helping advocate for that 633 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,840 person's, you know, individual choice in their wish. 634 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:09,240 And, and a lot of those topics for people are, are, are taboo, 635 00:35:09,240 --> 00:35:11,760 but they're really important because the worst time to try to 636 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:15,600 figure out what mom or dad wanted is sitting around the 637 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,760 table when somebody's in the hospital and you're being forced 638 00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,280 to have to make that decision for somebody. 639 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:26,000 Yeah, definitely sounds I well in in this conversation and the 640 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,200 and the conversations I've had with Phil, it sounds like the 641 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,120 more proactive you can be about all this stuff, the better. 642 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:35,640 I, I always tell families like when, when my husband and I 643 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,080 first did our estate planning way back when our daughter was 644 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,440 younger, you do a lot at that point because you're talking 645 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:45,960 about who's going to be guardian, you know, how a trust 646 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,720 will be managed with life. And, you know, so there's a lot 647 00:35:47,720 --> 00:35:50,640 that happens. And so we got to planning our 648 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,680 own individual documents and we were talking about like our 649 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,480 healthcare proxy and our living will. 650 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,480 And so I was being very specific at that point about like, I'm in 651 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,560 a car accident and I show up at the hospital and, you know, 652 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,880 there's not going to be a lot of hope or whatever, just pull 653 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:06,520 everything. And I slowly watched my husband 654 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,440 really withdraw from the conversation. 655 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:11,680 And, you know, being a social worker, of course, I'm picking 656 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,120 up on some of these non verbal kinds of signals he's setting 657 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,760 out. And I, I looked over and I said, 658 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:23,480 are, are you OK? And, you know, he just really 659 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,200 sat for a minute and he was like, I don't think I can do 660 00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:29,840 this. And I like, was like, oh, what, 661 00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,520 what are you talking about, 'cause I mean, we were talking 662 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,080 about a lot that day, right? And I was like, do what? 663 00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:36,680 And he said, I don't think I could be the one to kill you. 664 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:41,920 Well, that was a, a, a, a big wake up for me, right? 665 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,440 Because I just assumed he was going to, he was going to be my 666 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,520 person. But in, you know, when we 667 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,480 started getting into the weeds of talking about what a do not 668 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,800 resuscitate is and all of the kind of scenarios, like he was 669 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,520 really struggling with whether or not he would be able to, to 670 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,520 follow through on my wish. And so at that point, I was 671 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,240 like, well, then I guess you can't be my healthcare proxy, 672 00:37:04,240 --> 00:37:08,640 which, you know, was shattering. Now, you know, 25 years later, I 673 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:13,640 say to people like he'd have no problem pulling the plug, right? 674 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:16,720 But things are different, all right? 675 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:19,760 We have a, we have a different understanding of how things work 676 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,240 and, and all that. But it, it, so for me and it, a 677 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,640 lot of it had to do with his upbringing, right? 678 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,040 Like you, you have to look at that cultural piece of it. 679 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,320 You have to look at the spiritual aspect of it, you 680 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:34,720 know, So again, that's sort of one of the things that I bring, 681 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,400 bring to it. I kind of like leave everything 682 00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:41,040 that I have a personal opinion about at the door and really 683 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:44,000 want to know what's important to that individual so that we can 684 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,480 really try to advocate for that. You know, if somebody wants all 685 00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:49,840 the bells and whistles, OK, then let's talk about what that's 686 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,720 going to look like for you and, and really put that plan in 687 00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:56,320 place for them. And to Phil's point, like really 688 00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,400 having that conversation is never too early regardless. 689 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,720 So I love it when people are really just starting to kind of 690 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:03,960 think about it. We might not see them for five 691 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,920 years, but at least we know we've planted a seed and they 692 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,680 kind of know what what where they can go and kind of what 693 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:16,000 questions they can start asking, you know, which is really cool. 694 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:17,560 It's a really cool thing to be able to do. 695 00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:21,480 Yeah, well, and it's needed because I, you know, it's, you 696 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,440 know, that whole, it's funny because you said in the 697 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,400 beginning of the show, right, people hear estate planning and 698 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,040 they automatically think about this, right. 699 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,800 And, and just I what I've been educated on because of you, 700 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,840 because of Phil, there's just so much more to it about what you, 701 00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,840 things you don't even think about and like the power of 702 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,280 attorney for your kid going away to College in case something 703 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,280 happens that, you know, like, I never even thought about that. 704 00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:44,440 That was never even something I would think that you would need 705 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:48,320 to worry about, right? But there is, there is so much 706 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,440 to it and, you know, appreciate what you guys are doing and, and 707 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:53,920 education. And, and again, I just think 708 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,160 it's such a cool thing that you're part of the equation in 709 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,560 this process and what a differentiator it is for Herzog 710 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,280 and for the firm and what it does for your clients. 711 00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,680 I think it's amazing so. Yeah, thank you. 712 00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,600 I, I love it too. Like it's, it's, it's a, it's 713 00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,040 sort of a perfect marriage. And I love the opportunity to be 714 00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,640 able to, to really talk to people in a way, you know, 715 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:16,880 'cause they're here. So it's on their mind, you know? 716 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,040 And a lot of times it's, it's, it's harder to have those 717 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,840 conversations when they're more forced, you know, and in some of 718 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:25,360 the other environments I've been in, it's because they've had to, 719 00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,480 It's not because, oh, I, oh, you're right. 720 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,200 I really should start thinking about this kind of thing, you 721 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,920 know? So if if people want to learn 722 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,800 more about Herzog, more about you, about how you work with 723 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,200 people, where do they find you guys? 724 00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:43,000 Yeah, So easy enough is the web, right? 725 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,320 We have a website that's www.herzoglaw.com. 726 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,800 That's number one. You can always call our office 727 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,600 and ask for a consultation. All of our initial consultations 728 00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:58,080 are at no charge, which I think is really nice. 729 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:00,920 And in lots of circumstances we're meeting with people 730 00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:05,080 repeatedly until they kind of really understand or know what 731 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,560 direction they need to go. So that's another thing that I 732 00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,560 just I love about all of us is it's just kind of low pressure. 733 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,920 We want people to have the information, kind of understand. 734 00:40:15,720 --> 00:40:18,320 We have a newsletter that I feel like is really informative. 735 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,320 So if you go to our website, you can sign up for our newsletter 736 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,560 by just putting in your name and e-mail address. 737 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,080 You know, again, we do a lot of. Education events, so kind of 738 00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,080 keeping an eye on our web page to look at where we are and 739 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,240 maybe there will be some educational information that 740 00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:39,840 might spark an interest for you that you want to look. 741 00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,760 And most of what we offer too is we have pre recorded webinars 742 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:45,680 too on our website. So a lot of times we just say to 743 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,200 folks like, hey go check out one of our webinars and it might 744 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,200 answer some questions or it might lead into the the bigger 745 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:55,480 conversation you need to have with us so. 746 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:57,960 Amazing. Well, thank you so much for 747 00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,960 coming on the show and spending some time with me and our 748 00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:01,800 listeners. Yeah, it was great. 749 00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,800 I really appreciate you having having me on. 750 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,720 Absolutely, absolutely anytime and of course, thanks everybody 751 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:09,640 for listening. Of course, you can find out more 752 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,720 information on our website buying local dot US and you can 753 00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:14,360 listen to this podcast everywhere. 754 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:18,040 We get podcasts, I think Spotify, apple, YouTube, rumble, 755 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,400 just to name a few. So please check us out and make 756 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:25,280 sure you hit subscribe, like give us a five star review and 757 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,160 you'll hear from us next week. Everybody. 758 00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:28,120 Thanks so much for listening.