1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,800 The superpower that every citizen has is the ability to 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:06,100 control where they spend their time, money and attention by 3 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:07,900 focusing. These on supporting local 4 00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:11,300 businesses who are having a profound impact on your friends, 5 00:00:11,300 --> 00:00:13,300 your family and your local community. 6 00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:16,900 So if you want to change the world, you can start with my 7 00:00:16,900 --> 00:00:24,100 local. Welcome everyone to buying local 8 00:00:24,100 --> 00:00:26,400 Glens Falls and Saratoga. We're actually doing a little 9 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,000 double dip on this episode to put it out on both markets. 10 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,200 Kind of a special episode today been trying for a few weeks here 11 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:35,300 to put together and really want to thank our guests for coming 12 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:39,700 in and helping us talk about the new heat pump laws. 13 00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:41,700 That's the subject that we're going to be talking about. 14 00:00:41,900 --> 00:00:44,800 He pump installations the requirements that are changing 15 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:50,700 kind of getting some of the viewpoints of Joe Cerrone from 16 00:00:50,700 --> 00:00:53,500 Cerrone, plumbing and heating. Thanks, Joe for coming in. 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:58,300 Absolutely, and Andy leprous, who owns blue flame, and they 18 00:00:58,300 --> 00:01:01,100 are a, your natural gas supplier, right? 19 00:01:01,100 --> 00:01:03,400 No, we are propane. Only propane only? 20 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,800 Okay, our natural. I said natural gas. 21 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:06,900 I met propane. Sorry. 22 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:09,700 That's one of the silly things that I'll say during the Elsa. 23 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,800 Yeah, close enough, right? So, so one of the main guys, 24 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,200 both in and kind of talk about this new law on, I hate, I don't 25 00:01:17,208 --> 00:01:19,500 want to call it. Hulk has law, but it is 26 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,800 Something that she's really pushed as far as the new green 27 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,200 energy initiatives that we have in New York state and across the 28 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,700 country. And you know, so I'm going to 29 00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:31,100 kind of give you my quick understanding of the law itself 30 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:33,700 and then and please tell me where I go astray here. 31 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:39,300 So my understanding is that 2024 or maybe 20 25? 32 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:42,000 Yeah, that's again, when I, when I was reading it go ahead and 33 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:43,900 jump in there and it's still rumored. 34 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,300 She's scheduled to pass her budget at the end of this month 35 00:01:48,300 --> 00:01:51,800 and which will dictate Tate, whether it makes it in or 36 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:57,300 whether the legislators push it out till 28 or 30 and just what 37 00:01:57,500 --> 00:02:03,300 some of the speak about it. But yeah, that and that was when 38 00:02:03,300 --> 00:02:05,200 I was, you know, doing some research getting ready for the 39 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,500 episode. That was one thing I couldn't 40 00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:09,699 really nail down. Some, some sources said 2024 41 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,500 other said, 20 25, and that's just for the first part of it. 42 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:17,100 Which basically, if I understand correctly requires any new 43 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:20,300 construction residential construction, I don't know if 44 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:22,800 this applies to commercial or not, I thought it was just for 45 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,000 multi families to start and then trickle down into single. 46 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,200 Yep. So I heard that residential 47 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:30,900 homes. They wouldn't be putting Natural 48 00:02:30,900 --> 00:02:34,600 gas meters in anymore and they'll be don't, you know 49 00:02:34,700 --> 00:02:36,300 pushing down towards electric. Yeah. 50 00:02:36,300 --> 00:02:39,800 What I read was single-family to multifamily up to three units 51 00:02:40,300 --> 00:02:43,000 that they would be requiring heat pump installations and 52 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,900 again depending on where you're reading the information from. 53 00:02:45,900 --> 00:02:47,200 And some of this is from nyserda. 54 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,000 Some of this is from New York State's and and when and where 55 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:52,600 you can find information as a bit on the sparse side as well. 56 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:58,100 So and so my understanding is, it's a to kind of pop art 57 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:01,200 movement into this whole initiative, the first Art, being 58 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:04,200 new construction, only new builds. 59 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:08,400 And then the second part would be that as of 2030 or whenever 60 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:12,300 they end up doing the second part of this law is that you 61 00:03:12,300 --> 00:03:15,400 basically would not be able to get anything other than a heat 62 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,600 pump in New York state. So, when it came to like Joe 63 00:03:17,700 --> 00:03:21,300 repairing, my furnace, he would not be able to do that after 64 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:24,000 2030. He would have to recommend that 65 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,900 I put in a heat pump or go without heat. 66 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,600 It's my husband. Yeah, yeah. 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,200 So So again, guys, I really appreciate you coming in the 68 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:36,100 kind of give us your view, point of the whole situation kind of 69 00:03:36,108 --> 00:03:39,700 educate our listeners myself. Definitely, I have so many 70 00:03:39,700 --> 00:03:42,100 questions about this whole situation. 71 00:03:42,100 --> 00:03:46,600 So, so let's just get into it. So you know, we started talking 72 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:49,600 before the show started before I hit the record button, which I 73 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,400 always do and I never should do because all the good stuff comes 74 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,300 out before you hit record. But one of the things that we 75 00:03:55,300 --> 00:04:00,100 were talking about was How this is going to affect the business 76 00:04:00,700 --> 00:04:03,000 owners that are in the gas business. 77 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,500 Whether, you know, now and what you said you're in propane, but 78 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:07,700 then there's also, you know, they got the, the men and women 79 00:04:07,700 --> 00:04:10,000 out there that own heating oil businesses. 80 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,500 And so, I'm just, you know, kind of fill us in on how this is 81 00:04:13,500 --> 00:04:19,600 going to affect your business if at all So as a whole as your 82 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:26,500 rights this code in its going to start diminishing our gal, we 83 00:04:26,500 --> 00:04:30,900 can output essentially since a home will become more efficient. 84 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:34,700 He more airtight better insulation, better building 85 00:04:34,700 --> 00:04:39,300 codes. So overall will start delivering 86 00:04:39,300 --> 00:04:45,100 less gal to new homes which we already see the past five or six 87 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:46,900 years. And that's just because they're 88 00:04:46,900 --> 00:04:50,000 so efficient and the heating element, you know, whatever 89 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:51,600 they're using for, he is so efficient. 90 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:55,500 I mean it's we are insulation used to be our nine, right? 91 00:04:55,500 --> 00:05:00,900 And now the building code for an attic or roof is like R38. 92 00:05:00,900 --> 00:05:04,000 Yeah. That's just a massive change of 93 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,400 insulation. So as to become tired of the 94 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,500 more efficient, they are in a less Castle use. 95 00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:14,500 You know, we've been seeing for a decade, you sure? 96 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:16,800 Yeah, yeah. I mean going from heating oil 97 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,300 to, then the natural gas and propane and, you know, it's 98 00:05:21,308 --> 00:05:22,700 bound to happen sooner or later, right? 99 00:05:22,700 --> 00:05:24,000 Then homes are so efficient again. 100 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,300 People, you know, the consumer the right. 101 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:29,900 I mean, I know myself, you know, I like you Andy, but I would 102 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:31,700 like my propane Bill to be smaller. 103 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:37,200 I went to a bar, you, I like you very much as a customer then and 104 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,000 for those of you listening at, you know, we live in an old 105 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:39,700 farmhouse. House. 106 00:05:40,100 --> 00:05:44,300 That is not well, insulated and was built in the late 1700s 107 00:05:44,300 --> 00:05:47,200 early 1800s. So we can a lot of drafts and 108 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:51,500 pretty much our furnaces run from mid to late October until 109 00:05:51,500 --> 00:05:54,400 about June, just to keep that place warm. 110 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,600 Which shows you how far along the building codes have come 111 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,500 where my average customer used to be eight to nine hundred 112 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:05,800 gallons, for an average home is now in the 526. 113 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:10,000 Barely, a 700 gallons a year. Yeah, account for just God. 114 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,400 I wish that was the case. Yeah, I mean, we've got 1,000 115 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:15,500 gallon tank for the main house and we felt that up two or three 116 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:18,700 times. And then we've got to, I think 117 00:06:18,700 --> 00:06:22,000 they're 80 gallons on the garage and hundred got 200. 118 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Okay. And we fill those out. 119 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,000 We fill those up like quite a bit. 120 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:29,700 We had to hard like every month. I feel about every six weeks 121 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,600 man. It's crazy. 122 00:06:31,700 --> 00:06:35,700 So it's a lot of propane anyway and for single family residence. 123 00:06:35,700 --> 00:06:37,400 That's a massive amount. Yeah. 124 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,200 And so you know, to jump over to John this. 125 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,100 Like we were talking like is a heat pump going to be able to 126 00:06:43,108 --> 00:06:46,100 sustain a home. Like mine depends on the 127 00:06:46,100 --> 00:06:48,800 application. You know what, we're seeing that 128 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,300 in the newer homes just because they are building them Tighter. 129 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:56,200 And more efficient, it's more realistic for a heat pump to be 130 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,700 able to take care of the heating load for you know something that 131 00:06:59,700 --> 00:07:03,700 is more well insulated and are tight you know heat pumps have 132 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:08,100 been out for a long time. For those of you who don't know 133 00:07:08,100 --> 00:07:12,200 what a heat pump is he Biz. It's basically an air 134 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,800 conditioning system that works in Reverse to create heat, it 135 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:21,400 draws heat from the outside air to, you know, basically heat 136 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,600 your home. So the colder it gets outside, 137 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,700 the less efficient a heat pump is going to is going to perform. 138 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,600 So you know, ductless heat pumps have been out for a long time 139 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,300 and they're, you know, they're getting more and more efficient 140 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:39,100 and now, you know, we're seeing more and more manufacturers. 141 00:07:39,300 --> 00:07:42,900 Going out with ducted heat pumps you know so you can actually 142 00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:44,700 hook duct work up to it, you know. 143 00:07:44,700 --> 00:07:47,700 And you know do basically a forced hot air heat pump you 144 00:07:47,707 --> 00:07:52,300 know for your home the you know the you know up to standard 145 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:58,800 house you know typical you know 1200 to 1800 square foot you 146 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,500 know they used to be able you know they used to need like 80 147 00:08:02,500 --> 00:08:05,600 to 100 thousand BTUs just to heat the home and now we're 148 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,200 seeing it's more towards you know, 50 and 60. 149 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,800 You know, thousand BTUs to heat the home, where it sits in the 150 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:17,700 reach of a heat pump. You know, these sickly we do, 151 00:08:17,700 --> 00:08:19,500 you know, a heating and cooling load on a house. 152 00:08:19,500 --> 00:08:24,500 And we try to see, you know where, you know, if you need 153 00:08:24,500 --> 00:08:28,100 supplemental heat besides a heat pump most applications, do you 154 00:08:28,100 --> 00:08:31,300 know? And you know, it's, you know, 155 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,500 kind of opening up a can of worms as far as, you know, if 156 00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,700 you want to go all electric, you know? 157 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,400 That's great. You know we're just been running 158 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:43,400 into situations that you know you have a heat pump that will 159 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,800 perform down to you know zero degrees. 160 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,800 And then it'll start you know losing a little bit of his 161 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,400 capacity and then you'll need supplemental heat to kick in and 162 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,300 you know, if you need electric resistance, heaters, you know, 163 00:08:56,500 --> 00:09:00,800 for that, we've been running into the application where, you 164 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,800 know, they're they don't have enough amperage and their 165 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:05,900 breaker panels, you know, to cover that. 166 00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:08,500 Yeah, that was something we started to get into as well as 167 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,500 and I wanted in a minute. We'll jump back to Andy cuz he 168 00:09:12,500 --> 00:09:16,200 was doing a great breakdown of the cost analysis of what it 169 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,300 costs you to heat your home with propane versus what it's going 170 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:25,300 to cost an electron electric but that is a so To kind of back up, 171 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:26,700 right? When we're looking at, 172 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:30,400 installing these heat pumps. Tell us what that because I 173 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,300 think you guys just went through some training for this or so and 174 00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:35,600 yeah. So, National Grid is offering a 175 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,500 lot of rebates out right now. So they're depending on how much 176 00:09:39,500 --> 00:09:42,900 of the home that were, you know, heating with the heat pump. 177 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:46,400 You know, they're offering anywhere from 500 to 5,000 178 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,100 dollars in rebates right now. Which is, which is kind of crazy 179 00:09:49,100 --> 00:09:50,700 and something that we've never seen before. 180 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:55,800 Well, I mean not to interrupt your cut you off, but they got 181 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,200 to be really excited about this lot National Grid. 182 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,200 I mean, how You know, just delivery fees alone based on 183 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:06,700 what your electric usage is. I mean, there they stand to make 184 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:10,600 a disgusting amount of money from this law and there's no 185 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,100 competitor. Like there's nobody else other 186 00:10:13,100 --> 00:10:16,700 than National Grid, like a very good captive, audience all the 187 00:10:16,700 --> 00:10:19,300 time, all the time, all the time. 188 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,000 I built it margin. Yeah, I'm just, I'm 189 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:23,700 flabbergasted by this whole thing. 190 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:29,000 That we're essentially handling the entire States election. 191 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:31,600 You know, ability to heat their homes, power their homes, 192 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,600 everything over to one company and there is not even a chance 193 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,400 of any sort of competition whatsoever for someone to come 194 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,300 in out come in and be able to because National Grid lines 195 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:42,700 lines. They on the polls. 196 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,700 Even if there is competition is only coming in on the supply 197 00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:46,900 side. Right, right. 198 00:10:46,900 --> 00:10:49,800 So you could choose your provider technically, sure. 199 00:10:50,100 --> 00:10:54,900 But you have two bills. One from your supply company and 200 00:10:54,900 --> 00:11:00,800 one from National granny. Yeah always So your savings is 201 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,600 maybe you can get a guaranteed rate for 123 years. 202 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,600 Yeah. And that's it and that's it. 203 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,900 And then at any point in time they can just change their 204 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,200 delivery fees. I and so again and that's a 205 00:11:13,208 --> 00:11:14,300 hijack. What you're saying Joe? 206 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:16,400 But you talked about the National Grid and I just again 207 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:19,700 so amazed by everything with this laws doing and and one of 208 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:23,300 them is just handing the keys to the kingdom over the National 209 00:11:23,300 --> 00:11:26,600 Grid folks like is the removal of consumer Choice. 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,800 Yeah. It's what I mean, it's what 211 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,500 happens. It is so, so sorry before I 212 00:11:32,500 --> 00:11:34,800 interrupted their jaws. What was I saying? 213 00:11:35,500 --> 00:11:37,600 I know I'm all fired up now but National grassland. 214 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,200 Oh, yeah, the rebates for National Grid so there's the, 215 00:11:41,208 --> 00:11:43,800 you know, they're offering like I said, crazy rebates, anywhere 216 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,100 from 500 to 5000 depending on how much the heat pump is 217 00:11:47,100 --> 00:11:49,300 heating? You know your home and you know 218 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:51,100 how much it'll load is taken care of. 219 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,600 You know it's we're just running into situations where the heat 220 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,200 pump you know? Like I said, it just as it gets 221 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,800 colder, it gets less efficient. So, you know, when it's super 222 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,600 cold out, it can't really cover the whole load of the house. 223 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,500 So you will need some sort of supplemental heat in most 224 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,200 applications that were that were looking at right now. 225 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,700 Smaller rooms and smaller Apartments heat pump can carry 226 00:12:16,700 --> 00:12:19,000 the load and take care of it. No problem without supplemental 227 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,700 heat. It depends on how tight the 228 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:24,500 houses and you know, strictly the application. 229 00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:31,200 So I mean, I guess, you know, I just again that you as you say, 230 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,000 you're going to need supplemental heat. 231 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:36,800 That's not electric driven or if it is electric. 232 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,900 Let's say you put extra space heaters or whatever. 233 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:41,000 Do you think? I mean you could do electric 234 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,500 baseboard heat for backup or like if it's a ducted system, 235 00:12:44,500 --> 00:12:47,600 you know, there's the option of putting electric resistance 236 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,700 heaters as backup to the heat pump in that actually works 237 00:12:51,700 --> 00:12:54,400 together with the heat pump. So they'll work, you know, at 238 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:57,900 the same time and You know, that can, you know, cover the load 239 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:01,300 depending on, you know, how much, you know, how big of a 240 00:13:01,308 --> 00:13:03,700 panel you got and how much room you have in there, honestly. 241 00:13:03,700 --> 00:13:06,400 So that's, that's getting added to my list of questions that I 242 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:11,800 have for the Governor's. We're being forced into a 243 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:15,600 situation to install heating systems that will not cover the 244 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,700 heat load for this part of the country. 245 00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:20,600 We often have below zero temperatures, sometimes for 246 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:24,000 extended amounts of time in January and February this year, 247 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,300 we were lucky right that we were Get a mild year, but, you know, 248 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:30,000 essentially what's going to happen is you're gonna have to 249 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,300 pay for the installation which will come back around on the 250 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:35,200 cost of that. But we got to pay for the 251 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,700 installation of the heat pump and more than likely will have 252 00:13:38,700 --> 00:13:42,300 to install additional heating sources that are electrically 253 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,800 driven according to the laws in some applications. 254 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,000 Yeah, depending on the size like right, you know this room you 255 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,100 know my farmhouse. Yeah your Farmhouse is that that 256 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,800 would be tough to eat with a heat pump we're screwed. 257 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,000 Yeah. I know that you could. 258 00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:00,800 Yeah or it wouldn't be so oversized to meet your load. 259 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,900 It would be your cost. Would be a fifty thousand dollar 260 00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:05,600 heat pump. Yeah. 261 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:09,800 So like, you know, you would need multiple heat pump systems 262 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,000 to cover the load, you can cover the load, you'll just you'll 263 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,400 need a lot of systems on these a lot of systems. 264 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,700 So we'll not only that. But you also have to don't 265 00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:22,700 forget most of these ratings that they tell you about them, 266 00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:24,900 45 degrees. Hey right? 267 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,900 So as you go though, Go to 0 but your BTU load that they can 268 00:14:29,900 --> 00:14:33,500 handle drops off significant. So it's math. 269 00:14:33,500 --> 00:14:35,400 Yep. So they're get, like I said, 270 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:36,800 they're getting better and better. 271 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,000 Like there's there's some heat pumps that, you know, will he 272 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,300 down to negative 30 right now? Like they are getting better and 273 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:45,700 better? And, you know, say if it's, you 274 00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:51,700 know, a you know, 40, you know, thousand BTU unit, it'll still, 275 00:14:51,700 --> 00:14:55,300 you know, at -30 we're still seeing you know, that they're 276 00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:58,100 throwing off. Like still 85 percent of that. 277 00:14:58,100 --> 00:15:01,800 So they're still throwing off like you know, a good 30,000 BTU 278 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,400 so it's not I mean, they're not, they're not bad systems, do you 279 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,600 know and it's for certain applications, you know it's it's 280 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,500 a smart move, I think so what you're that's you know. 281 00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,800 So that's the thing right? Is that I also late back and 282 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,200 forth between like yeah you know I mean we want to be better for 283 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:18,400 the environment. We want to do things that are 284 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,600 good but the same time like is it? 285 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:23,600 You know, we talk about sustainability like is that 286 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:28,300 sustainable for the Adirondacks is Sustainable for this sole 287 00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:30,900 Northeastern United States when we're doing a heating and 288 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,900 cooling or heating load, you know, for for a house, the 289 00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:39,000 design temperature that we have to, you know, pull the load 290 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,500 against is negative 2. You know, that's that design 291 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:44,200 temperature. So when we do a heating 292 00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:47,900 calculation for, you know, a room or a house where you know 293 00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:53,700 figuring - to, you know, it's outside -2 and we do, you know, 294 00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:56,000 an insulation value in everything. 295 00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:58,900 Thing, and we see how many BTUs that space needs, you know, to 296 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:02,300 properly, heat it. And, you know, sometimes, you 297 00:16:02,308 --> 00:16:03,600 know, the heat pump can take care of it. 298 00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:06,500 Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see now. 299 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:09,300 And so in the I want to jump over to the cost comparison, the 300 00:16:09,308 --> 00:16:12,400 cost analysis because I think this is important and I think 301 00:16:13,500 --> 00:16:16,300 one of the big parts of this. And again, I say, as I oscillate 302 00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:18,800 back and forth between this being a good thing and being a 303 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:22,600 bad thing, one of the things I see outside of National Grid 304 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,100 having the market cornered is that or having a monopoly? 305 00:16:26,100 --> 00:16:31,600 Realistically speaking is The cost to not only put the systems 306 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,900 in which I understand they're not cheap. 307 00:16:33,900 --> 00:16:36,600 And I think it's great that National Grid is offering 308 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,400 rebates and I think I believe nyserda is going to be offering 309 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:43,400 some rebates as well, you know, let's hope anyway. 310 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:47,200 But the cost of the system is going to be thousands of 311 00:16:47,208 --> 00:16:48,600 dollars. I mean from the research that 312 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,300 I've done, you're not getting into a heat pump system for 313 00:16:51,300 --> 00:16:54,100 under 5,000. And really, it's more like 8 or 314 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:58,400 10. Yeah, the IAA can vary, but like 315 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,700 I said, like, it depends on what we're doing, you know. 316 00:17:00,700 --> 00:17:03,400 Yeah, you can have up to five thousand dollars in rebates, 317 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:04,500 right? And so that's great. 318 00:17:04,500 --> 00:17:08,599 If your system only cost 5,000, but again, if you're a property 319 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:12,800 like ours, where you know, we're a farm right, you know, like 320 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,099 we're looking at a system that's going to be north of 50 thousand 321 00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:19,599 dollars to be able to put that system in systems. 322 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:21,800 I should say, because it's multiple systems your house. 323 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,800 Yeah, yeah, I mean, you've been in my house. - yeah, it's 324 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,300 terrible. Oh, and so outside of the cost 325 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:29,700 of insulation, though, let's talk about the cost of use. 326 00:17:29,700 --> 00:17:33,200 So any before we get started, you are doing a great comparison 327 00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:38,300 of talking about what your gas cost would be in a current 328 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:40,300 market versus what the electric cost would be. 329 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:41,900 Can you kind of give us that break down again? 330 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,200 Yes, what I was saying earlier was for my average customer if 331 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:51,900 you take a 600-gallon home for propane use And you break it on 332 00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:54,900 a per BTU basis, right? So we're bringing it down 333 00:17:54,900 --> 00:17:59,100 because the sixth on a gal. Equal ax B to use which you need 334 00:17:59,100 --> 00:18:01,600 to heat your current existing home. 335 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,800 One gallon of propane is ninety one thousand five hundred of 336 00:18:06,808 --> 00:18:11,100 each use. A kilowatt hour is approximately 337 00:18:11,100 --> 00:18:14,500 3,100 BTUs, right? So, it's raw meth. 338 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:21,000 So in one gallon of propane is twenty six kilowatt hours, okay? 339 00:18:21,100 --> 00:18:27,200 So, you know, so if you take your 600 times here, 90 1500, 340 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,500 it's 15 million btu somewhere in there. 341 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:34,800 And then divide it up by your kilowatt hours and you get a 342 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,200 massive number. Right. 343 00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:40,500 You know today's cost propane. Retail is around three dollars 344 00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:45,000 and twenty-nine cents. So your average on one delivery, 345 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:48,700 if you got all six on a gal is about nineteen hundred dollars. 346 00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:52,700 Now if you take just the delivery or just the supply 347 00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:58,700 charge currently, which was on nicer, which is around 22 cents 348 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:00,000 per kilowatt hour. Hmm. 349 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:02,000 You're somewhere around twenty three hundred dollars. 350 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,400 First for the year, all in one lump sum not right. 351 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,300 Your average just all at once. So it's currently more expensive 352 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,400 plus there's no competitors for electricity, right? 353 00:19:15,900 --> 00:19:17,800 So it could get even more expensive. 354 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,400 Well, it will if as demand goes up, there are too many things 355 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,800 that need to be changed currently in our electrical 356 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,900 grid, right? Because our grid is not even set 357 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:27,100 up to handle. All of this. 358 00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:30,700 Is that fair. In from what I know and I don't 359 00:19:30,700 --> 00:19:32,200 know much about the electric side. 360 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:39,500 Yeah that's not my specialty but math is pretty good, at math is 361 00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:41,700 math man. Yeah, what? 362 00:19:41,700 --> 00:19:44,700 Yeah what I've been running into you know with going back to the 363 00:19:44,700 --> 00:19:49,400 electrical issue is in these older houses that have like 150 364 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,700 amp you know panel coming into their house and they need they 365 00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,400 want to go all-electric. The panels are too small 366 00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,200 honestly. Yeah dude to to do with The heat 367 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,400 pump and a have backup electric heat, and go all electric. 368 00:20:03,100 --> 00:20:06,500 There's been several cases are ready where they just couldn't 369 00:20:06,500 --> 00:20:09,000 do it because they don't, you know, they don't have enough 370 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,900 room in there panel. And I'm, we're adding another 371 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:16,100 panel onto the property right now because our 200-amp panels 372 00:20:16,100 --> 00:20:18,100 too small for the things that we have going on there. 373 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:25,500 And I can tell you the costs at a 200 amp panel, is it's gross. 374 00:20:27,100 --> 00:20:29,500 So, like, you know, you look at like, just Simple. 375 00:20:29,500 --> 00:20:31,900 Let's say at that house. That's got that 150 amp panel, 376 00:20:31,900 --> 00:20:33,000 right? And so they're going to be 377 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,600 putting in a heat pump system, that's let's just say it's eight 378 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,200 thousand dollars, right? From all the numbers I read on 379 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:40,700 this far as pricing for these things. 380 00:20:40,700 --> 00:20:43,100 That that's a good ending on the application. 381 00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:43,700 Yes. Right. 382 00:20:43,700 --> 00:20:46,800 Good number to use. Right so so we've gone eight 383 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:51,000 thousand dollar heat pump. Now we've got I'll be generous 384 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,200 and say it's only going to cost them three thousand dollars for 385 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,100 that panel but I know the one that we're putting in is more 386 00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:58,600 than that. So like let's just be generous, 387 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,100 though. I'd say it's 3,000 now, there 388 00:21:00,100 --> 00:21:03,100 are 11,000 dollars, which I don't know that, there's any 389 00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:07,300 rebates for that panel installation, not right? 390 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,800 And then, it's going to cost. What was the cost difference? 391 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,900 Almost a thousand dollars between per year per year, 392 00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,800 right? So just in just in year one, 393 00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:19,200 we've got I mean, mom, not so great at the math, but that 394 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,100 sounds like twelve or thirteen thousand dollars. 395 00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,700 How long are you gonna stay there for 20 years? 396 00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:26,400 Right? Because when is your payback, 397 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,100 realistically? Which people always like to put 398 00:21:29,100 --> 00:21:32,600 doesn't sound like there is one not Monsieur there for 30 years. 399 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:37,100 Maybe your kids would take it over, my kids want nothing to do 400 00:21:37,108 --> 00:21:41,000 with the farm. So, again, I'm just, I'm so 401 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,700 confused by all this. I mean, because what I hear is 402 00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:49,200 that, From a monetary standpoint, none of this policy 403 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,100 is good for the consumer or am I wrong on that? 404 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,700 I mean, take the environment out of it. 405 00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:58,400 I'm just saying from a money standpoint, which right now 406 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:02,800 we're in some you know, turbulent Financial Times. 407 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,700 So like I would recommend like any you know, any people that 408 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,400 have to replace their air conditioning system or their air 409 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:15,100 conditioning system goes, you know this year, I would put any 410 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:17,300 heat pump Keep your furnace, you know? 411 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,200 And then your heat pump. We can program it. 412 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,900 So the heat pump can take care of the load of your house and 413 00:22:22,900 --> 00:22:25,200 then when there is a couple of degree, differential will have 414 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,800 do you know have the furnace kick in is makes the most sense 415 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,200 you know right now? Because we're still installing 416 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,000 more furnaces and heat pumps right now. 417 00:22:34,100 --> 00:22:36,500 Yeah, you know I think that's a smart move. 418 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,900 It's the hyporheic. It's not all one way or yeah. 419 00:22:39,900 --> 00:22:42,400 The other, right? If you want to add air 420 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,200 conditioning, want to take out that window unit, put it in 421 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,400 many, It to add the heat. Pump side is, maybe a couple 422 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,800 hundred bucks. Yeah, if you were just doing a 423 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,600 see, only you add the heat pump, it's fractions, right? 424 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:00,100 Of what it would be just to do it if you're going to do the 425 00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,100 whole house. So that makes sense. 426 00:23:02,700 --> 00:23:04,800 Your propane. Bill comes down your natural gas 427 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,400 bill, come down your electric bill creeps up slightly but not 428 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,900 enough to really probably notice right now and then when that 429 00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:14,600 heat pump starts to get a little inefficient when it gets very 430 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,100 cold out you know it It's going to it's going to shut off and 431 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:18,500 your furnace is going to kick it. 432 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:23,300 And you know, in another question I had from a monetary 433 00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:28,400 cost standpoint is what will let's say 10 years down the 434 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,400 road, right? Because that's really what we're 435 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:34,100 looking at right now. So 2025 we start to see this 436 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,000 really like you said earlier it's not really going to have a 437 00:23:36,008 --> 00:23:38,400 big impact on your business immediately. 438 00:23:38,700 --> 00:23:41,000 Right because it's not going to effect. 439 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,500 Propane usage. More than we already seeing 440 00:23:45,500 --> 00:23:47,500 naturally in the in the market, right? 441 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,700 But ten years down the road, let's just say what now we've 442 00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,500 got 60 or 70 percent of the homes on the market are now 443 00:23:52,500 --> 00:23:55,500 using heat pumps as opposed to using propane. 444 00:23:55,500 --> 00:23:59,000 Furnace has, what does it do? You know, obviously, like you 445 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,800 said, there's still going to be uses for propane, right? 446 00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:07,400 They will see a higher percentage in 10 years, okay? 447 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,200 Think about it. I'm going to average number of 448 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,900 home. Yeah, what's our new Action. 449 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,500 The governor's, trying to push 800,000 new. 450 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:20,300 Well, five years, we don't see that growth in Europe. 451 00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:21,800 More people are leaving the government. 452 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,400 Yeah, so I think that's about the number of people actually 453 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,200 left New York State last year was. 454 00:24:26,300 --> 00:24:30,700 Yeah, 100,000. So, the new building is not that 455 00:24:30,700 --> 00:24:32,600 goal. She setting it's nowhere near 456 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,300 close to it. So, in 10 years, two percent of 457 00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:41,900 new homes with this will be smaller than you really what we 458 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:43,400 want to think. Think it is yeah. 459 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,500 Or the lofty goals are projecting is not there. 460 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,900 They're grossed out there. Yeah well that's another I keep 461 00:24:48,900 --> 00:24:52,700 seeing that they want to be at 70 percent Renewables by 2020 462 00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,600 2030. So that's another interesting 463 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,000 number. I mean, we're we do a lot of 464 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,700 service and we service systems that have been out there for 20 465 00:25:03,700 --> 00:25:04,600 plus years. Yeah. 466 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:07,400 You know, that haven't broken yet and you know why swap it out 467 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,000 and replace it if it's still working. 468 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:12,300 So, you know, I don't see it happening right away. 469 00:25:12,500 --> 00:25:16,200 Expect especially to existing houses because, you know, all 470 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:21,300 these houses is houses are sized for you know, you know, furnaces 471 00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,400 and they have furnaces in them right now and that are going to 472 00:25:23,408 --> 00:25:27,200 be out there for another 20 years and what you need going 473 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,400 forward. Again is the new building codes 474 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:34,500 for efficiency because you need that house to be tighter if you 475 00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:39,300 want to do with electric because the the older he tosses are too 476 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,100 big. That the heat pumps can't keep 477 00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:44,300 up. Up at low temperatures when you 478 00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:46,600 want your heat. Yeah. 479 00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:52,600 So so from a propane supply and demand standpoint really, not 480 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,900 going to see any effects from this for a long time. 481 00:25:56,100 --> 00:26:00,500 We've been seeing it for the past five to eight years, right. 482 00:26:00,500 --> 00:26:03,800 More people are doing many splits there, they're going to 483 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,700 hybrid route so their demand is coming down as they make 484 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:09,400 improvements to their house, okay? 485 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:13,900 So another 10 years will see a More drop-off. 486 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,400 But we'll still have some new users coming on. 487 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,900 You're just not using as much propane, but we have a large 488 00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:24,200 share, that's old. So our Gallant will fall off, 489 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:29,800 but not not at a rapid rate that people want to say, it's going 490 00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:33,500 to, I think in new construction, it's going to be a lot more 491 00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:36,400 rapid because after a certain time they're going to say no 492 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:40,400 more natural gas meters, right? And then then there everyone has 493 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,600 to do, he pumps, you know, There is a lot of new construction up 494 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,400 here. No more natural gas meters. 495 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:51,200 But still propane usage, though. Interesting. 496 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:53,900 See, what? Which way that's going to shift 497 00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:55,000 people if they're going to, you know? 498 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,100 Because again, I just I feel like I'm trying not to be biased 499 00:26:58,100 --> 00:27:01,500 on this because I am against on some sighs. 500 00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,300 I think it's a great idea to be more environment or mentally 501 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:08,400 friendly, moving away from fossil fuels, when we can and 502 00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:11,800 when were able to so long as we have the technology, which 503 00:27:11,900 --> 00:27:14,300 again, I'm not. Sure, that we do to be able to 504 00:27:14,300 --> 00:27:17,300 move fully away from fossil fuels, especially in this part 505 00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:20,700 of the country where we get so cold but I'm also not too. 506 00:27:21,100 --> 00:27:24,700 I'm going to propane's horn but we are developing renewable 507 00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,200 propane. It's on the market, they can be 508 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:31,500 bought, they are increasing capacity all over. 509 00:27:31,500 --> 00:27:37,600 So in 10 years Today I could sell renewable program, huh? 510 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:42,600 I can take a certain percentage of my gal that I sell and bring 511 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,500 a renewable to your home. If that's, you know. 512 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,500 So, there are other aspects of renewable even within the fossil 513 00:27:49,500 --> 00:27:55,200 fuel categories potential for electrification is interesting. 514 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,500 When you have an exhausted, all of your renewable stuff 515 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,000 renewable propane. Had not heard about that. 516 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,200 It should be. A decent size of the market and 517 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,200 5 to 10 years. I like that that's going to have 518 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,400 to be a topic for another show when I have to do some research 519 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,800 on that man. So if you're someone that's 520 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:19,700 listening to the show right now if I'm trying to I want to make 521 00:28:19,700 --> 00:28:23,300 sure that we leave our listeners with some good information as 522 00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:26,600 far as actionable items, right? So like if I'm a homeowner that 523 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,100 has a furnace, that is nearing end of life and I'm afraid of 524 00:28:31,100 --> 00:28:34,400 the heat pump situation or the cost of the heat pump situation. 525 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,800 Because that's really, I think one of the biggest barriers 526 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,800 right now for your, your normal human in New York state is going 527 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,100 to be the cost, right? So if I'm worried about having 528 00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:49,100 to drop 10 15 20 thousand dollars on the Pump system in 529 00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:53,000 the next five years. Should I be doing something else 530 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,800 student? So one thing that ashlar grid 531 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,700 said in some of the trainings for the rebates is these rebates 532 00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:04,500 won't be available forever. It's just going to be mandatory 533 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:08,600 at some point. So it's really application by 534 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,300 application. Depends on the house. 535 00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:14,800 Depends how old it is and I would say, you know, we give 536 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,100 free estimates, you can weigh it out both ways. 537 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:22,000 You know, we can factor in the rebate and see your app, but 538 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:27,700 like, going forward, like the simplest thing to do, especially 539 00:29:27,700 --> 00:29:30,200 if your air conditioning system breaks down and needs to be 540 00:29:30,208 --> 00:29:33,600 replaced, you're putting, you know, set up, put an AC coil on 541 00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,400 your furnace, you put a heat pump coil to a heat pump, you 542 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,000 know, outdoor unit. And you know, you're headed in 543 00:29:39,008 --> 00:29:41,400 that direction. You get a nice rebate and, you 544 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,400 know, like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to 545 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,500 be more expensive because of the rebates, even though the 546 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,700 equipment is more expensive, And so basically what you're saying 547 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:54,000 Joe is give you a call and you'll help make that decision 548 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,900 make the right decision because we can, you know, our estimates 549 00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:59,200 are free and we can weigh it out, both ways for them and give 550 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,700 them options, you know, to see what best suits their needs. 551 00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:06,300 You know, because every house is is different in the system has 552 00:30:06,300 --> 00:30:10,200 to work with the existing ductwork, you know and you know 553 00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:13,600 that you have in the house. So you know it's it's 554 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:15,300 application my application. Okay? 555 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:19,800 And again is that something that People should wait or shouldn't 556 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:21,900 wait on like this is something they should start looking at. 557 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:26,100 Now I Mena, if it's not broke, don't fix it. 558 00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:27,800 Kind of deal. Like your system is working 559 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,100 properly right now. I mean it doesn't make sense 560 00:30:30,100 --> 00:30:33,700 just to swap it out for, you know, because you know the laws 561 00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:37,600 are changing and several years. So I would you know if the 562 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:39,500 system is nearing the end of its life. 563 00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:43,900 I'd say that'd be more the, you know, other people that that 564 00:30:43,900 --> 00:30:45,800 need a step in that direction, right? 565 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,200 You know because systems, you know, lasts up to Twenty twenty 566 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,200 years. So it could, you know, you could 567 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,800 be stuck without being able to get parts for you know, gas 568 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,200 furnaces 20 years down the line, you know? 569 00:30:58,200 --> 00:30:59,700 I'm not sure how that would go about. 570 00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:01,400 Okay. All right. 571 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,200 And then Andy with the really curious about the renewable 572 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,500 stuff, but it I just never heard of renewable prompt and like, 573 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:11,100 I'm not my mind. I'm like, how do you doing 574 00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:15,800 renewable propane leak. What someone, you know, if 575 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,700 someone is a propane diary, or if they have a system for 576 00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:22,300 propane, and any words of wisdom that you would give them as far 577 00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:26,800 as with the up-and-coming laws, or I really think it's 578 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:31,600 individually tailored for your home and your needs, and what 579 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,600 you want to do, you know, a lot of its finances. 580 00:31:35,900 --> 00:31:40,600 Yeah, so if you know, if it's going to be cheaper one way, 581 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,300 everyone's gonna look at that option, I know. 582 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,900 There's no great advice for you that I really have. 583 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,600 Unfortunately, you know I would I say keep using your propane 584 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,200 but when you start to get regulated out of it it's hard to 585 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:01,600 keep them something, you know. I'm like Not great. 586 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:02,700 Wisdom. That's all right. 587 00:32:02,700 --> 00:32:05,200 Well you've had plenty of great information so far so that you 588 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,400 know math is always your friend. Right right. 589 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,300 It doesn't work for you financially and economically 590 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,200 knowing what you end up with what we know today. 591 00:32:15,300 --> 00:32:17,700 Well, that's I think everyone loves the idea of being more 592 00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:21,400 environmentally responsible and being good stewards of the 593 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:26,100 planet, but at the same time, like it has to be doable. 594 00:32:26,100 --> 00:32:29,000 Like there's a lot of families out there that are, you know, 595 00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:32,200 Having trouble making ends meet and the current environment that 596 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,100 we are in and have been in and then to sit there and turn 597 00:32:35,100 --> 00:32:37,800 around and say, oh, by the way, you know, you're going to be, 598 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,800 you need this big expensive system and using this system is 599 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,000 going to be your costs are going to go up but don't worry, it's 600 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,200 good for the environment. I think that's a tough pill to 601 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,500 swallow for a lot of people very much. 602 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:51,500 So so guys, I really appreciate you coming on the show and 603 00:32:51,500 --> 00:32:53,300 helping to educate me. Hopefully, educate and 604 00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:54,900 listeners. I know, I definitely take a lot 605 00:32:54,900 --> 00:32:57,500 more away from this. I feel a little bit of I feel 606 00:32:57,500 --> 00:33:02,000 better, guys. Well, thanks, Absolutely one 607 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:04,400 more time. Joe, if people want to get ahold 608 00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,400 of her own plumbing and heating, where can they find you guys? 609 00:33:07,500 --> 00:33:09,600 Yeah, we're located out of Queensbury. 610 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:13,100 You know, they can always give us a call and, you know, we'll, 611 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,600 we'll get them a free estimate. That's awesome. 612 00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:18,000 And I obviously, you guys are Community partner with Glens 613 00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:20,000 Falls today, which we greatly appreciate. 614 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,200 Also, you've been a client for years and a friend and you're 615 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,900 also our HVAC and plumbing company. 616 00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:27,600 So they do a great job everybody. 617 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,100 So I'm not just saying thank you. 618 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:33,200 Welcome and Andy who is also our propane supplier over at the 619 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,300 house. Thank you. 620 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,100 And they want to get a hold of you or they have questions or 621 00:33:38,100 --> 00:33:40,000 they're looking for a new propane supplier. 622 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,800 The best way to reach us is probably on the web. 623 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,600 We cover a great distance. We do sell a Vermont. 624 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,000 Almost Utica. Wow. 625 00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:53,300 So our website is blue flame, gas, co.com. 626 00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:56,600 That's amazing. Thanks again guys, appreciate it 627 00:33:56,800 --> 00:34:00,500 and you're sure the superpower that Every citizen has is the 628 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:03,200 ability to control where they spend their time, money and 629 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,000 attention by focusing. These on supporting local 630 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,400 businesses who are having a profound impact on your friends, 631 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,400 your family and your local community. 632 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,000 So if you want to change the world, you can start with my 633 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:00,900 local. Every citizen has is the ability 634 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:03,800 to control where they spend their time, money and attention 635 00:34:04,100 --> 00:34:06,000 by focusing. These on supporting local 636 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,400 businesses who are having a profound impact on your friends, 637 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,400 your family and your local community. 638 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:15,000 So if you want to change the world, you can start with my 639 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:15,600 local.