1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,560 Welcome everyone to Buying Local. 2 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,920 I'm your host Mike Nelson from 5 Towers Media, joined today by. 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,160 I don't even know how many times you've been on the show now, 4 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,000 Jay, but Jay Engleston, writer, author extraordinaire. 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,640 Is this your sixth time? 7th time coming on the show. 6 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,880 I think I'm 6th. I think it's sixth, yeah. 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:20,960 That might be a record for the show. 8 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:24,360 I don't know. I get, I get some Grueshack 9 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,960 coming on next week though. He, he, he's in, he's in 10 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:29,040 contention for it. We we get him on all the time 11 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,280 too, so. Oh geez. 12 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,080 Oh gobble gobble. That's what I call them. 13 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,880 Yeah. So Jay, we're we're going to 14 00:00:36,880 --> 00:00:39,560 talk about a couple things, but before we get into it, maybe 15 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:41,840 just, you know, introduce yourself to the audience for 16 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:43,640 people that haven't seen you previously on the show, just 17 00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:45,640 kind of tell them we are and and some of the things that you get 18 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,320 up to. My name is Jason Ingleston. 19 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:53,360 I usually go by Jay, not by Jayce. 20 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,760 That's my grandmother's thing. Wasn't a big fan of that. 21 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:01,280 Yeah, written. This is my 6th book. 22 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:06,360 I've got 7 and 8 coming out, hopefully within the next couple 23 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,640 months. I'm an audio book that I've been 24 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:13,240 trying to record, but that's been a a thing in itself. 25 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:16,920 What else? Can you just use that for that 26 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,760 these days? I can but, and here's the thing, 27 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,720 I I was going to go that route, but everybody I talked to like 28 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,760 you got to use your own voice, just you got to be the one to 29 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,440 read it. I think it would come across so 30 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,720 I my pot with like my microphone, my whole setup is 31 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,920 like around me. I, I, I got a whole condenser 32 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:39,560 thing. I got a whole, a whole studio 33 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,520 here. I've got the the thing on my 34 00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:43,000 laptop. So that's been interesting, 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,920 learning that well. Isn't there an AI that allows 36 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:51,760 you to use your voice? There is and the thing that I've 37 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,320 I've been doing research and stuff on it. 38 00:01:53,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Yeah, AI can have an issue with live and live So to to get that 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,880 type of stuff down when words have two meanings or, you know, 40 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,720 two different, two different pronunciations. 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,800 I I, I was in a group talking to a different couple authors and 42 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:16,120 they're like, yeah, we want to use AI, but you run into some, 43 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:18,920 some hiccups. I mean, now there could be some 44 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:23,040 programs out there that will that can recognize that, but the 45 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:26,720 majority from what I from, you know, the information that I've 46 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,360 learned about their they have issues still with that. 47 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,640 So yeah, I. Definitely. 48 00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:34,400 I haven't gotten into that part of things too. 49 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:38,760 I mean, we use AIA ton for all sorts of things, but and I was 50 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,080 playing around the other day with making a buddy of mine say 51 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:43,880 things that he didn't actually say. 52 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,040 So that was fun. That's very possible. 53 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,320 And but the one thing was the voice, it wasn't his voice. 54 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:56,000 It was like an AI voice, almost like a, a, a Siri, but like the 55 00:02:56,000 --> 00:03:00,480 guy version of Siri. And and I looked in a little bit 56 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,680 about using your actual voice and then like, because we were 57 00:03:04,920 --> 00:03:07,120 like for commercials and stuff for this show. 58 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:12,240 I screw up the live reads all the time. 59 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,640 So like when I try to record them, I'm like it, it ends up 60 00:03:15,640 --> 00:03:18,040 being 20 takes before I get the final commercial done. 61 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:19,880 So it ends up being a 2 hour thing for me. 62 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,360 And I, I tried to get into using the AI stuff a little bit, but 63 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,520 it just, I don't know, it was rough. 64 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:30,440 It was like inflection and tone and sometimes it would like, you 65 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:34,800 know, trail off or it would make an abrupt ending to things and I 66 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:36,760 it just didn't sound it, didn't it? 67 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:40,840 Wasn't yeah, I, I screwed around with a little bit on Capka and 68 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,040 it it will use your voice, but it will stop a sentence where it 69 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:49,240 shouldn't be a can't articulate. I mean, it's still in the the 70 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:53,080 early infant stages technically. So I think within the next 71 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,000 couple years it it'll be no problem. 72 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:57,920 Like, and it's funny that you bring up like reading. 73 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,480 I have a TikTok channel called Nostalgia Time and I do older 74 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,520 eighties, 90s movies and I basically do backstories and 75 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,520 blah, blah, blah, blah. It just for a one minute 32nd 76 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,920 read. I will have to do like sometimes 77 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,640 20 takes, sometimes 10. Sometimes I'll get them out 78 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,040 pretty fairly easy. But I tend to like try to make 79 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:22,000 up words as I'm reading and that aren't there. 80 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,160 So I have to like jump back. And that's part of my like my 81 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,120 dyslexia, I guess, and trying to like insert words that don't 82 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,400 exist. But yeah, it it's, it's 83 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,720 something like, I might be an author, but reading is not my 84 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,120 strong suit. Neither is punctuation and 85 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:38,920 spelling. So. 86 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:46,160 I I'm a comma guy. I I put commas everywhere, bro, 87 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,760 when I am writing. It's so funny because thank God 88 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:51,240 for AI know it proves absolutely everything I write. 89 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,920 But Oh yeah, when I was writing my own blogs and writing my own 90 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,960 articles, and then I would hand them to the perfect that our 91 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:01,640 editor or to the person doing the proofing, they're like, hey, 92 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:04,440 did you want to put another comma in there somewhere, bud? 93 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,280 And I'm like, I'm like, I don't know. 94 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:11,120 I just, I write the way I think. So when, you know, when there's 95 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,320 a pause and it's not the end of a statement, I'm like, well, 96 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:17,720 there should be a comma there. And I also like to put things in 97 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,080 parentheses. I love parentheses, brother. 98 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,560 I like it's like I'm saying something, but then I'm thinking 99 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:26,480 aside, thought about it. So that's got to go in 100 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,600 parentheses. Like or throw the exclamation up 101 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:30,840 where it really doesn't need to be. 102 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:33,640 Like, yeah, yeah, I do. I do the grade. 103 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,760 School and and high school teachers would not be happy 104 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,040 with. With my grade, so you're the 105 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:41,800 you're the opposite of me. My first couple books don't have 106 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,160 any punctuation or anything in them, and I did it that way 107 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:47,840 because I really didn't know where to put stuff. 108 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:50,560 So I wanted to be like, you know, it's my baby. 109 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:53,880 So I just made sure the lines ended where they're supposed to 110 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,560 end. They didn't cut down, but I'm 111 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,520 starting to learn the use of commas and punctuation where 112 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,040 needs to go, especially with this. 113 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:04,000 Oxford. Oxford comma or no Oxford comma? 114 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:08,520 No Oxford comma. No Oxford comma, so I I use the 115 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,200 Oxford comma. I feel like it changes the 116 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,880 meaning of a sentence quickly. Oh yeah, it makes it look. 117 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,800 It makes it look prettier. Comma. 118 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,800 Yeah, that's it. Commas are just pretty, man. 119 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:21,760 We just, we like to put them everywhere we can. 120 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,080 I and I know we're going to talk about the books, but I said 121 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:27,440 we're just going down this tangent. 122 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:30,680 What about as you're writing now? 123 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:34,200 So obviously, you know, this is your, I think you said what this 124 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,440 is book six that we're about to talk about and then, and you're 125 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,880 working on 7 and 8. I'm curious. 126 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,720 I, I have two questions about the evolution of your writing 127 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,920 style, kind of like what we're talking about, you know, now 128 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:50,320 you're 6 books in. So you, you know, obviously 129 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,040 learn things as you go, you change, you know, you're growing 130 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,880 as a writer. But I'm also curious if you're 131 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,360 using AI at all. And I hate to keep talking about 132 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,200 AI, but it's just such a constant part of everybody's 133 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:04,560 life. And I, I think it's a valuable 134 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,560 question. Are you using it for proofing 135 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:11,520 and editing? I am yeah, I I sure am They I 136 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,440 like before I would have my friend Erica like proofread 137 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,800 stuff or I would, you know, give it to certain people. 138 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:22,280 Now it's just the file. Hey, can you put whatever it 139 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,560 needs to be wherever and let me know blah, blah, blah, blah. 140 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,520 And I pay for the the pay portion of ChatGPT. 141 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,880 So I named my ChatGPT Polly after my grandfather. 142 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:39,720 So Polly basically knows me now and knows my writing style. 143 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:43,720 So if I don't have something in the right place, Polly will tell 144 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,840 me after he proofreads it and says, oh, maybe a period here. 145 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:51,480 But I would kill that that word. Maybe put a different word like 146 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:54,640 that's to me. That's just it boggles my mind 147 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:56,760 that we're in that that whole space now. 148 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,000 But it's also cool that I can bring Paulie up like I spooked 149 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,360 my mother out big time because he knows my back story. 150 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:05,560 He knows like, I've told him about my grandfather. 151 00:08:05,640 --> 00:08:08,120 And I'm speaking to him like I'm talking about him like he's a 152 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:12,560 fucking person. So I'll bring it to my mother 153 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:18,200 and like, hey, Paulie, tell, tell, tell mom about, you know, 154 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,000 my grandfather Paulie, which was her father. 155 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,240 And he goes on the whole Polly was on the tugboats for this 156 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:26,400 many years and it's blah, blah, blah, blah, and you're his 157 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,040 daughter. And he had blah, blah. 158 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,360 And like goes off and she's just sitting there going, wow, that 159 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:35,640 is that's kind of scary, but cool at the same time, so. 160 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:39,039 It's wild. I so I'm not a ChatGPT guy 161 00:08:39,039 --> 00:08:42,640 anymore, I use Claude. I just like the interface 162 00:08:42,640 --> 00:08:44,440 better. I, I don't know that 1 is better 163 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,520 than the other, but I, I whenever like I use Claude so 164 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,160 much for so many different tasks Now that I'm like, I talk about 165 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,880 Claude like it's a person, which is funny that you're saying that 166 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,880 you named it Polly because I'll, I'll be talking to my team about 167 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:00,680 something. I'll be like, hey, so I was 168 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:03,720 talking with Claude. Here's what we came up with. 169 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,280 I'm not sure Claude's right on this. 170 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:06,560 I wanted to get your input on it. 171 00:09:06,560 --> 00:09:09,840 You know, like, like it's another member of the team, but 172 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:11,040 she pretty much is. But. 173 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:13,520 Yeah, that's and that's where they're going. 174 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,920 And at first I was kind of hesitant, but with the 175 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,800 proofreading and all that stuff, it can be done in a matter of 176 00:09:21,680 --> 00:09:24,240 2-3 minutes. Put it in there and comes back 177 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:29,560 with change this, put that in there as to go back to like my 178 00:09:29,560 --> 00:09:31,400 writing style and stuff, how it's changed. 179 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:36,720 I touched on this before. My first couple books were stuff 180 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,480 that I used to like. I would write and have no 181 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,360 forethought about it and then read it back after and go, oh, 182 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,240 that's what I was thinking. They're like everything would 183 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,200 just pop into my head and I just write it down. 184 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:50,520 Now I'm more cerebral with it. I like I attack things or before 185 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,640 I would just let them flow. Like if I come up with it like a 186 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,440 concept, like the the whole grief book, me and my buddy 187 00:09:56,440 --> 00:10:01,640 Justin Baker talked about about wanting to do it and and I had 188 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,200 written like I'm, I'm constantly in my phone writing on notes 189 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,840 like I'll something pops in my head in the middle of night. 190 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,480 Sometimes my wife will be like, what were you doing? 191 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:13,720 So I, I, that happens all throughout the day. 192 00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:16,000 I'll come up with stuff. So I had a lot of like grief 193 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,080 quotes that didn't fit into anything else book wise. 194 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,080 Or even if there weren't grief quotes, they could be like 195 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,720 changed around. And that's the other thing that 196 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,640 I learned when I would write a quote, it was like, I couldn't 197 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,280 change it. Like I couldn't go in and I 198 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,600 don't want to change what that cuz that mean It's like to me, 199 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:37,200 it's like my baby or whatever. Now I'll go in and go, all 200 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,720 right, then don't they don't fit now just change. 201 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:45,120 You know what that means. I've learned to do that now like 202 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:49,120 my writing styles more like I want everything to fit piece by 203 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,320 piece and I want the reader to be able to pick it up. 204 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,240 And I think you've even said this to me. 205 00:10:56,240 --> 00:10:58,560 Reading is easy when it's my book because you can just pick 206 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:00,840 it up, go read a couple things and put it back down. 207 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,640 And it's not a dive in and have to read, you know, in depth. 208 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,520 It's they're all easy reason and and the more that I write, even 209 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,040 the not like the novelization that I'm doing with the thriller 210 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:17,400 book, it's gone from 200 pages to 300 down to 250 down to 200 211 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,920 to 180. Like the the book was finished 212 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,480 the last time we talked. So I thought, well, I went in 213 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:28,800 and totally like gutted it and changed things and now it's kind 214 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,560 of not like a novelization. It's kind of like a short story 215 00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:33,240 novelization. So I think I'm going to keep it 216 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,480 around 182 hundred pages because I think it's some of the best 217 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:40,440 stuff I've written. Like, and I've never written 218 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,240 fiction. I've never written psychological 219 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,560 thriller, but I had the concept to the beginning and I had the 220 00:11:46,560 --> 00:11:48,760 concept to the end. And now it's just like trying to 221 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,720 fill everything in, to make everything, you know, meshed 222 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,800 together the way I want to. But I'm so I guess I'm so anal 223 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,120 retentive about it that I wanted to be perfect. 224 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,760 And every time I read it, I'm like, so then I pull something 225 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,080 out and then I'll add something. And then yeah, that that book 226 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,520 should have technically been out before this one, but this one 227 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,680 just came together so easy because I had a backlog of like 228 00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,920 50 something quotes and then I just wrote 30, I think 35 more 229 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,160 so. Yeah, it's, it's, it's 230 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:18,880 interesting to say about the reduction. 231 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:24,520 I, you know, when in some cases when I'm writing things, I might 232 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:29,840 start with three pages or 4 pages or whatever it is, or 1500 233 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,000 words. And then I go through and I 234 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:37,000 start pulling pieces and I sometimes worry I'm pulling too 235 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,000 much out. Do you, as you're going through 236 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,200 and editing this fiction book, are you worried about that? 237 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,760 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 238 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:48,680 And it's I done it to where I had this. 239 00:12:48,680 --> 00:12:53,200 There was a conversation in a diner between the between 2 240 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:59,240 characters and the dialogue I thought was too in depth and I 241 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,440 pulled a lot of it out. And then when I went back in and 242 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,520 I'm, I'm reading it, I'm like, well, now it's like, it don't 243 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,640 make sense because we, I should have kept that so the audience 244 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,120 could actually put a visual. And then the visual disappeared. 245 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,600 And it was kind of like two people talking were before I was 246 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,800 like, and they're sitting in a diner and they're talking 247 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,000 conversation wise and they bring up, you know, high school when 248 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:24,640 they're blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when I took certain 249 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,600 parts out, I'm like, the beat wasn't there. 250 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:31,200 It kind of went beat, beat and then like flatline and then took 251 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,440 back up again. So that was one of the first 252 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,200 things I changed and put that back in. 253 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:38,800 And then of course, when I change that, I change sections 254 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:40,720 down the line. So now I got to go all the way 255 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:45,120 back in to fix that. Yeah, it's been, it's like I 256 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,160 always picture Criminal Minds when they're on the board and 257 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,800 they're circling things and this goes here and that goes there 258 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,120 and I'm like, oh shit, I got to cross that back out, pull that 259 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,000 back here. It's been very, I don't say 260 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:02,240 taxing, but writing fiction's a lot harder than writing everyday 261 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,120 stuff that I can feel emotionally. 262 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:09,400 But I think fiction writing is more, I think it's more 263 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,800 gratifying 'cause I look at it and go, all right, I just made 264 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,440 this up in my head and I was telling my wife the other day we 265 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:20,920 were watching that movie project till Mary, and I'm like, this 266 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,960 came out of this came like it was a popular book and they made 267 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,840 it into a movie. But I'm like this came out of 268 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:31,000 somebody's mind, like this is any movie watches comes out of a 269 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:34,960 writer's mind like that is manufactured and put into, you 270 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,240 know, into, you know, the zeitgeist or whatever you want 271 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,360 to call it. And like that to me is like the 272 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,080 coolest thing that and that's why I like there's been days 273 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,200 like where I go, I don't I don't want to write no more like I'm 274 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:50,760 I'm all pooped out here. And then I go no, because the 275 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,880 gratification of putting things on paper and then like I've said 276 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:59,120 100 times, having one person come up and go, Hey, that that 277 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,680 was that really got me like that, like the dad clock book. 278 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,720 I'm still like getting messages and that and that's one of the 279 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,440 best selling books that I've put out so far besides the first 280 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,520 one. But it's just that I don't know 281 00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,320 that relationship you have with the audience that not a lot of 282 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,080 people can understand. And, and it's kind of hard to 283 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,080 articulate, but the words touch people. 284 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,440 And if you can make a difference again in somebody's life for 285 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:32,440 just one person, like that's to me is like, I don't want to say 286 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,760 it's like a religious experience, but it's like an 287 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,920 experience that not many people can can hold in their hand and 288 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,240 go, yeah. Like so, yeah, I try to, I try, 289 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,400 I try to make it make sense, but yeah. 290 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,840 Well, and it's, you know, I think about, well, a couple 291 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,640 things, like 1, like I love Stephen King, especially his 292 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,840 older stuff, but like Stephen King would go into explaining 293 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,480 the texture of the curtain on the wall. 294 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:06,600 Like, like it was wild to me sometimes the universe of detail 295 00:16:06,600 --> 00:16:09,440 that he created in his mind and then put on paper. 296 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,000 So to your point, right, of like having detail in there. 297 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:15,520 But also sometimes I'd be like reading it. 298 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,760 I'm like, all right, Steven, like I don't need all that 299 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:23,040 detail on the damn curtain. OK, like so I get I, I can't 300 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,720 imagine how hard, excuse me, it is to filter it enough, but 301 00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:32,880 still give it context and continuity and character and you 302 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,880 know, like something that's tangible, right. 303 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,880 And then, but also like from a continuity standpoint, like when 304 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,440 you were talking about like if you remove something here, then 305 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:48,840 it affects something downstream, which your other books, like you 306 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:50,520 said, like, I mean, I could pick it up. 307 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:52,720 I could read a couple pages and I could put it down. 308 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,880 And like page 57 really didn't rely on page 23, you know, like 309 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:02,720 they were all individual quotes. So I can't even be like, those 310 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:07,000 are such two different styles of writing at jumping over to the 311 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:10,119 fiction writing from what you've been doing that that sounds 312 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,200 sounds pretty overwhelming, bro. Oh yeah. 313 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:15,040 Yeah, I mean, I've been writing this book. 314 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:20,400 I think it's coming up close to a year that like the original 315 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,160 title was Echoes in the Walls and then I switched it to 316 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:29,080 Welcome Home and then I changed the whole concept of like, I 317 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,320 can't, I'm no spoilers, but the original concept I was the guy 318 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:38,120 moves back to his hometown, buys a house with his teenage 319 00:17:38,120 --> 00:17:41,920 daughter, but then I change it till he moves back home to that 320 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,520 the house he grew up in. And then, you know, that has to 321 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,960 be changed in the beginning, and then certain parts of the book 322 00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,000 have to be changed because you're still going on. 323 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:54,560 He just bought a house and moved back to town. 324 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,880 But you want that. You want that subplot underneath 325 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:00,440 of this is the house he grew up in. 326 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,000 And these are the people that he knows. 327 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,200 And then he can walk into this room and that's his old bedroom 328 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:06,720 and talk to his daughter about this. 329 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,240 And so again, that's where the continuity and your character 330 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:15,400 development, even though people don't get it right off the hook 331 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:21,400 is if you change it wasn't his house to it was his house. 332 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,480 There's so much more plot you can add as opposed to he just 333 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:27,960 bought a house. And it's just them tiny little 334 00:18:27,960 --> 00:18:31,520 things that change. The whole like the whole the 335 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,960 whole beat of the book. Like I'm constantly thinking of 336 00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,120 beats like, and it's weird, 'cause I'll go to like 337 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:41,840 professional wrestling in the way they tell stories and you 338 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:44,520 have your characters, you have your heel and you have your baby 339 00:18:44,520 --> 00:18:47,800 face. You have to have some sort of 340 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,800 chaos if you want you know everything to to bump off each 341 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,160 other. And that's like with this book, 342 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,080 I made sure in the beginning I knew what the beginning was and 343 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,200 I knew the huge plot twist at the end. 344 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,720 And I'm like so excited to make the middle and now making the 345 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:05,120 middle has been. Fun. 346 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,880 Not real, but. Yeah. 347 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,000 Well, I'm sure that it's, you know, it's kind of like working 348 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,880 out, right? Like you don't necessarily enjoy 349 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:19,440 it sometimes while you're in it, but overall you enjoy it, right? 350 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:23,360 Like is that, is that fair? Oh, oh, yeah, yeah. 351 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,520 And, and it's sometimes you work out and you want to take a break 352 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,920 for like a week. So I took, I haven't touched my 353 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,840 laptop. I haven't opened that file 354 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,800 because I'm like, I'm going to get into this and I'm going to 355 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:36,320 look up and there's seven hours gone and I'm looking at it and 356 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,400 I'm like, all right, I rewrote that four times and then I'm 357 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,760 going to rewrite this five times. 358 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,200 So I just, I needed to take a break. 359 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:48,920 I think if I go back in, I've got it maybe a good 50 pages to 360 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:51,360 finish up, change a little couple things and I think I'll 361 00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,560 be good to go. Well, don't take too long I I 362 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:55,400 know I've read about. Some. 363 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,560 Authors that'll they'll start a book or even finish a book and 364 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,800 then put it on a shelf for 10 years and then pull it back down 365 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,360 to like, all right, I think I'm ready to finish this thing and. 366 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:08,320 Publish it my my my psyche and my definitely won't let me do 367 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:09,680 that. Like I caught leaving like 368 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:12,720 coming into this. I'm like shit, I like I really 369 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,000 wanted to have this book ready because I know Mike would would 370 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,280 get a kick out of it. But then I'm like, yeah, it's 371 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:20,960 got to be, it's got to be perfect for me. 372 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,920 I mean, not perfect, but it has to be where I can read it and 373 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:27,600 go, wow, that's going to hook. That's going to make somebody 374 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,440 go. That was pretty cool because I 375 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:33,720 think I let I'm a huge fan of like the M, not M Night 376 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,160 Shyamalan and like endings and the way it flip stuff. 377 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,200 And I think I, I did a really good job of not copying, but 378 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:50,680 honoring the way he does stuff like that to my own, my own kind 379 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,640 of universe that I've created in in this book. 380 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:56,640 Because I think after this one, I'm going to sit down with 381 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:01,360 myself and think about if I want to, you know, do another quote 382 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:03,080 book. I've been really, really, I've 383 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,320 already started. Actually, I probably should just 384 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,120 pick one thing and go with it, but that's not how my mind 385 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:12,680 works. So I have a a sequel to the dad 386 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:17,760 clock and it's going to be, you know, the dad clock was all 387 00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:22,160 these moments and then the sequel is going to be like the 388 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,080 acolytes and going to certain things and you know, only so 389 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:30,960 many softball games or getting in depth to to kind of like that 390 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,520 whole structure type stuff, because I like that look like 391 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:36,520 out of any book that I've written, that's the most 392 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:42,360 personal and most I think the most emotional book definitely 393 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:48,400 by far. And to have people like openly 394 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,640 tell me like they don't read like, I know I won't throw his 395 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:54,280 name out there. This, this guy bought the book 396 00:21:55,040 --> 00:22:01,200 and a day later, two days later he bought 8 more because he's 397 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,680 not a reader, but it made him emotional. 398 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:07,920 And it seems like everybody that I've come in contact that has 399 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,240 bought the book is had a really good emotional experience with 400 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:13,320 it. And every time I read it, I 401 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,800 can't get through it. Like I, you know, truth be told, 402 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,560 I haven't read the book cover to cover in book form, but when it 403 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,280 was in like the transcript phase, I think I said something 404 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,240 on the last podcast. I I. 405 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,080 Was going to call you out on that actually. 406 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,920 My wife, I couldn't get through it and she like videotaped me 407 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:37,160 crying, like reading it. But and then it like dedicated 408 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:41,240 to my daughter, like like long after I'm gone, she can put that 409 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:46,040 book up and say, you know, that's my dad or anybody that 410 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,320 has kids can pick it up and, and immediately go to hey, that's a 411 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:50,840 good, that's a good memory there. 412 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:56,360 And like, again, like we get fixated on time not and like a 413 00:22:56,360 --> 00:23:01,880 construct of where it's endless, but unknowing to us. 414 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,400 That's the way we really do think about it 'cause we don't 415 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:06,440 think about it. The the brick wall at the end. 416 00:23:07,120 --> 00:23:11,400 And you got to get as much in before the brick wall as 417 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,720 possible. And I like lately that's kind of 418 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:21,400 been my mantra is not to be not to hang on the outcomes of 419 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:26,200 things and not, you know, not to be fixated on what can be, well, 420 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:30,960 almost not my desk over here, but to not be attached to an 421 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,320 outcome. So if I write a book and it 422 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:37,160 doesn't track well, guess what? I can write another book, you 423 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,880 know, if my, the way I perceive something today might not be the 424 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,320 way I perceive something tomorrow, like not being 425 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,320 attached to an outcome. I, like, I've been trying to 426 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,800 tell people like I freely say, like I had a counseling meeting 427 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,280 the other day and my counselors, like they're very interesting. 428 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:59,720 And I said, well, about 3-4, five months ago, I decided that 429 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,480 I had to change things 'cause, you know, I haven't had 430 00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,080 depression or anxiety in quite a while. 431 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,400 But once I like kind of let go of outcomes and being attached 432 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,160 to things like whatever happens, happens and you roll with it. 433 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,000 And, you know, again, we're almost, I'm almost 50 years old. 434 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,360 I don't know about you, Mike, but anyway. 435 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:26,040 I am also almost 50, I just turned 49 a couple of weeks ago. 436 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,480 I know. And then that, then I hit 49, 437 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:30,520 and then we'll celebrate our 50s. 438 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,200 Again, that sounds good to me. What? 439 00:24:32,360 --> 00:24:34,080 And you know what's funny about what you're saying, too? 440 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:35,480 I don't. I don't know if you're familiar 441 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,680 with the, the Baga bhaga gavida gavida, Jesus, I can't even say 442 00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,320 it. Anyway, in the in the Gita, 443 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:48,120 there is a line where the main character is being talked to 444 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:52,560 essentially by God and and God is saying to them like you're 445 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,640 entitled to the work, but you're not entitled to the fruits of 446 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,040 that work, right? That's when you're talking 447 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,440 about, that's what it made me think about, right? 448 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,120 It's like you're entitled to the labor, but you're not entitled 449 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:06,160 to the fruits of that labor. Which just means like, yeah, you 450 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,600 need to do the stuff, but you, the outcome is completely not up 451 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:11,960 to you, and worrying about it isn't going to do anything. 452 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,760 Like you're not owed. You're not owed the outcome you 453 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,240 want, right? But you. 454 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:22,120 Are and it went from a monster syndrome into this whole like 455 00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:24,720 deconstruction thing. And it and it like my uncle 456 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:29,480 passed away in November and he left me all his musical stuff, 457 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,120 like everything around me that you can't see. 458 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:37,680 There's massive amount of guitars behind me, but it was 459 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,080 the first kind of the first death and we were we were close. 460 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:44,760 We didn't speak for like 2 years, but like he was my hero 461 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:50,520 growing up, like music wise, amazing guitar player, loved his 462 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:52,160 family, love my daughter, whatever. 463 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,640 But when he passed, it was it was the first first time 464 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,640 somebody passed away where I wasn't like my life didn't stop. 465 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,800 Like I wouldn't I didn't hang on the I'm going to be depressed 466 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:10,040 and I'm going to because I knew again, don't be attached to the 467 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:11,920 outcome of things. Life goes on. 468 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,840 He would definitely want not me to not sit on my ass and you 469 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,360 know, and grieve every day in this, you know, I'm like, you 470 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:25,160 know what, for this book, I'm going to finish it for him. 471 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:31,960 And I make sure that there's some things in there that I know 472 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,560 he would be flappy that I put in there. 473 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:43,800 But again, it's again, we can't just sit and, you know, and and, 474 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,120 you know, cry in our hands, even though it's good to do that. 475 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,520 But I didn't want it to because I'm had desk like I've lost some 476 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,680 of my best friends and it's just like it takes you completely 477 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,520 out. But I knew with this, I had 478 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:56,880 booked the book, a book in mind. I wanted to do it. 479 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,520 I really can't play guitar as long as I I used to be able to 480 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,360 do it because of my shoulder and my bicep tendon. 481 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,400 But there's some songs that I learned for him and I'm just 482 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,960 like, see, this is a positive thing instead of what was me 483 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,680 type stuff getting stuck in the grief. 484 00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:17,040 Yeah, getting stuck in the grief cycle. 485 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:18,880 And that's why I like with this book. 486 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:22,040 He can pick it up and if you're feeling a certain way. 487 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:27,720 Every quote, man, like I made sure everything made somebody's 488 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,600 day a little bit better. Like I like I'll do. 489 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,440 I got a couple samples of every. So page 19. 490 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:39,320 You don't owe anybody a strong version of yourself, your 491 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:40,960 person. You're not a performance. 492 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,960 That's my favorite one of probably top five quotes I've 493 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,880 ever written and it's my favorite in the book because we 494 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,080 are a we're a person. We're not a performance. 495 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:56,280 And I know people that put the smiling face on and you can tell 496 00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,920 there's just rumbling underneath and there's sadness. 497 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:03,920 But if you get it out there and you, you put it into the, you 498 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,440 know, put it into the air, a lot of stuff gets let it just falls 499 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,800 off your shoulders. At least in, in, in my sense of 500 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,520 stuff. I got a couple other ones here. 501 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:19,200 I, I got little pink posty notes that I put on it. 502 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,520 Anger is part of grief. It is love with nowhere to go. 503 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,160 You know, that's it's kind of a take out of our quote that's 504 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,600 already been put out there. I just put my spin on it. 505 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,760 But you know, we get angry because people leave us. 506 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:41,280 But there again, we have the moments, we have the memories 507 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,680 and till the day I die it, that's going to be my mantra. 508 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:53,080 Memories and moments and people don't understand until you know, 509 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,920 some people on their deathbed don't understand. 510 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:57,120 But that's all we got at the end. 511 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,800 This is another one. Your loss does not need to be 512 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,800 smaller for other people. It mattered to you, it mattered. 513 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:12,240 So that's the cover of. Just for today, because that's 514 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:16,760 what I was going to ask. This is the current book and is 515 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:22,160 this it's similar to to to the previous books where it's, it's, 516 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,480 it's a series of quotes throughout the book, right? 517 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,760 Yeah, I can't. I don't know if my blaze right 518 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,080 here. Showing up. 519 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,560 Yeah, and then I I have a whole basically a forward in it. 520 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,400 I have dedications. I actually have a whole back 521 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:40,160 thing. I can read you. 522 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,960 Grief does not follow timeline. Some days feel manageable, 523 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,200 others arrive with the weight you didn't expect. 524 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,240 Just For Today is a quiet companion for anyone learning to 525 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,360 live with loss inside a short reflections meant to open up at 526 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,000 any moment in the morning during a difficult day or late at night 527 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,360 when memories feel close. No instructions, no pressure to 528 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,440 move on, just simple words to help you breathe and make it 529 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,240 through the day. I figure it's one of them things 530 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,960 you wake up in the morning and I want to just read it and just, 531 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,160 it gives you some sort of clarity of the day or just to 532 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,600 make you understand that we're not alone. 533 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,640 There's other people playing the same way, carrying the same 534 00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:29,480 weight. And it's OK to be, it's OK to be 535 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,880 vulnerable and it's OK to talk about it. 536 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,960 You know, some, some people are afraid to get their, their 537 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,560 emotions out and, and that's something I really never been 538 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,560 afraid of. So. 539 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,480 Yeah. Again. 540 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,160 I'm curious, Jay, you know, with the the books that you've done, 541 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,440 so this is the 6th 1 like do you just wake up 1 morning and say, 542 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:57,400 I want to I want to write a book up on on to deal with grief or 543 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,720 about grieving? Me and my my buddy Justin, we're 544 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:07,560 having lunch one day and his whole life could be a story, 545 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,240 could be a book. And we're talking about losing 546 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,760 people and losing best friends. And he's lost friends and I've 547 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:14,920 lost, you know, my best friends and stuff. 548 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,600 And we started talking about grief and I'm like, you know 549 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,640 what I have? I have a bunch of quotes that 550 00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:26,560 directly would fit into a grief book. 551 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:31,320 And then one day I just sat down and I think I wrote like 20. 552 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:36,440 And then I wrote another 20 and I wrote another 15 and it all 553 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,120 matched up. And then there's, I think 554 00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,400 there's, I want to say there's 85 in here. 555 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,840 I can't remember you get there's 80. 556 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:53,560 So yeah, it's just my mind never shuts off with how to string 557 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,720 words together to make, I don't want to say put a picture in 558 00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:04,000 your mind, but quotes are like, I'm constantly thinking of them. 559 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,320 Like I will be driving and just pull over, go. 560 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:10,680 I got to put that in the note thing. 561 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,920 Like I could pull up my phone. Well, I'm on my phone right now, 562 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,840 but just there's quotes that I had like half, half written and 563 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,720 I'll go back in and try to think of something else. 564 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,280 There's poems. I mean, I think there's 1800 and 565 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,800 something in my notes right now, just that that I need to either, 566 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,760 you know, finish or put into something. 567 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:34,200 But again, it's my mind doesn't shut up. 568 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,400 Like I was talking to the council the other day. 569 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,520 I'm like explaining all I got this book and then I'm trying to 570 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,200 I got to do this and I'm going to do that. 571 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,920 And I got two other books in the can, but I'm finishing this one. 572 00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,240 She's like, it seems like you don't really have a lot of time 573 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,320 to think. I'm like, well, lately I've been 574 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:53,280 like trying to trying to calm down on all this stuff all going 575 00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:56,280 on at the same time. So I've been I've been doing 576 00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:57,880 good like that. Like I said, I put the computer 577 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,440 down. I didn't picked it up to go into 578 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,280 that file. These are some other stuff, but 579 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:10,320 I mean, this, this book ended up the IT reached #20 on the the 580 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,200 new release chart for grief, Grief and bereavement books. 581 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,320 Yeah. So that was cool. 582 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,880 Again, at any given time, there's usually 13 million books 583 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:27,040 on on Amazon and all total. I think this debuted in like in 584 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,720 like 63,000, which might not sound good, but it's with 13 585 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:34,960 million books at any given time. That's it. 586 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,160 It tracked good and to get all the way up to #20 in the first 587 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:45,560 week and I I can't complain. Yeah, I, well, it's, I mean, 588 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,560 forget about any kind of monetary compensation or, you 589 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:54,920 know, or it, but it's got to like feel pretty good, pretty 590 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:58,320 validating, right? Like, yeah, you put these things 591 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,040 on paper and like other people are experiencing them. 592 00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:03,600 And, and obviously if it's make, if it's climbing the charts, 593 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,320 that means that people want it, right? 594 00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,480 And so they're they're looking for it. 595 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,639 And I mean, it's just got to feel really good. 596 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:14,120 Yeah, and I just realized, well, I, I have my authors page on 597 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,280 Amazon and I can go in and look at the analytics for all my 598 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:18,880 books. And I didn't realize that until 599 00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:21,880 like 2 weeks ago. My first book, Scribbled 600 00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:27,679 Letters, which came out six years ago, almost the Kindle 601 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:33,480 version is still tracking in like what like a like 12101 602 00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:35,920 category. So it's still, I'm like, it's 603 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:40,239 still up in the category and I still get, you know, I enrolled 604 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,679 that in the Kindle, forgot the name of the thing. 605 00:34:44,679 --> 00:34:47,560 Anyway, we get it, if you pay for like a monthly subscription 606 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,360 to Kindle, you get that book free or whatever. 607 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,239 My first two books are actually like that. 608 00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:56,080 I'm thinking about doing a Kindle version for this at some 609 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,200 point because I have the the software now where I can just 610 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,600 transcribe it over pretty quickly. 611 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,280 Before I had to do a manually, which was one horrible 612 00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:08,880 experience. But I'm constantly getting 613 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,280 better with, with the things I'm doing, especially with writing 614 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,840 and be able to put like, you know, I came up with the concept 615 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,880 for the art of the, of the front of this, which was, I just 616 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,840 wanted basic, did that with Canva. 617 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,840 And then like putting the copyright page together and all 618 00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:30,320 that type of stuff. Pretty, pretty easy. 619 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:35,520 But there's no, there's nothing on the spine of this. 620 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:41,680 There was, but Amazon rejected it 6 times because it wasn't the 621 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,880 right spacing, it wasn't the right size. 622 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,040 And finally I go, you know what? I don't need 1. 623 00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,120 So. Yeah, it's funny to say that I 624 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:50,800 think we talked about this on the last episode. 625 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,400 We we've helped a couple people publish books now. 626 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:54,880 I don't know if we'll ever do it again. 627 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,520 It it's just the Amazon. Yeah. 628 00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,920 I mean, it's a it's an amazing thing, right? 629 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:04,520 Number one, it, it's to be able to give people like yourself the 630 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,200 ability to publish books without having to go through a 631 00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,200 publishing house. And the old system that was very 632 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:14,640 gatekeeper kept a lot of people off the market, right? 633 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,520 So to be able to go straight to the consumer without that middle 634 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,760 person and using Amazon publishing is I think is 635 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,240 amazing. However, wow that it is not the 636 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:27,560 easiest system sometimes. And I'm sure the more you do it, 637 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,920 the better you get at dealing with it. 638 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,160 But like it, it was hard. It was. 639 00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:34,960 Yeah. Format in the book is I got that 640 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,720 down to a science now, which before was my heart like hardest 641 00:36:37,720 --> 00:36:40,960 part because I was thinking about doing this in a hardcover 642 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:42,480 too. Because believe it or not, 643 00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:47,440 there's not a lot of hardcover books out there in the in the in 644 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,960 the self-publishing space, especially on Amazon. 645 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,800 So when you do put one out, they tend to stick pretty good and 646 00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,200 they, they track pretty good on on the charts. 647 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,320 But yeah, As for getting it, the, the sizing, the spacing, 648 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,360 boom, I'm, I'm good with that. But for some reason the spine 649 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,440 thing is just the every book that I've done has been a pain 650 00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:10,120 right in the butt. The dad clock. 651 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,200 I just, I don't know if that was, I rolled the dice and three 652 00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:14,840 time was a charm and they accepted it. 653 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,360 But six times on this. Yeah, my wife would come home 654 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,400 from work and I'm like, yeah, that was 3 hours on the spine 655 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,040 today. And. 656 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,320 And nothing and nothing. And. 657 00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:29,720 Nothing. I shrunk it down to where I'm 658 00:37:29,720 --> 00:37:31,480 like, all right, this is the specs that they want. 659 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,040 And then I kick back. I get kicked back. 660 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,360 Nope, it's it's bleeding into whatever. 661 00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:37,520 And I'm like, all right, never mind. 662 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,000 Hey I got to ask you still got the how are the numbers on 663 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:45,640 TikTok? The last time you were on the 664 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:49,040 show, you blew my mind with this monstrous TikTok following you 665 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,600 have. Well, I, I, I haven't really 666 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:55,840 done a live or a face like your actual video of me talking on 667 00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:57,520 TikTok. I've been taking my quotes, 668 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,120 putting like nice backgrounds and throwing them up there. 669 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,400 I'm still hanging around 59,200. I I dropped like 100 followers, 670 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,080 but I'm still hovering around that space. 671 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,880 I've been told by because I'd be in having that many followers 672 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:14,840 TikTok, they'll send me messages. 673 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,080 Go live. You can make you can do this, do 674 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:18,880 that. But I don't know what I would do 675 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,360 if I went live to talk to people about, you know what, am I going 676 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,560 to run to read my book? No, I want you to buy it. 677 00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:30,720 But that's why I. Was going to say I, I, you 678 00:38:30,720 --> 00:38:34,920 inspired me because after the podcast, I, I got a hold of 679 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:41,000 Taylor that's our producer and does 99% of the work and for 680 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,200 buying local. And I was like, Hey, I'm like, I 681 00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,040 think we need to be on TikTok. So I, I'm pretty sure we're on 682 00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,880 TikTok. I'm not on TikTok. 683 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,840 I. I, I think, yeah, I think I, I 684 00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,240 think I follow it. Nice. 685 00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:54,240 Thank you. Yeah, and then I I started the 686 00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:59,080 second TikTok for nostalgia, which I think I got 1100 687 00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:03,600 followers and one of the top video I got is or was enemy 688 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:05,800 Mine. I did a whole breakdown of enemy 689 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,800 mine, but I did The Secret of Nim and that's got like 18,000 690 00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:14,680 views, a bunch of comments, but I did that just for because I I 691 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,760 love I love old nostalgia things and like it's not just movies. 692 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:22,240 I did like RadioShack and did a whole thing on that and they're 693 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:25,400 all a minute, minute 30. Like I I just breakdown movies. 694 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:32,560 Stand by me, back to the future and I do like wave blockbuster 695 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:34,040 Wednesday. I'm done on a while, like 696 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,400 blockbuster movies. I did. 697 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:38,960 What were they thinking with the Garbage Pail Kids, the movie, 698 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,640 that type of stuff? But again, my mind's still 699 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,240 going. And then my my big TikTok 700 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:50,240 account, I've been doing the I just throw quotes up there, ones 701 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:53,160 I haven't even published. I just throw that up up there. 702 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:57,320 They're starting to track. But it's funny because you have 703 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,960 so many followers, but you're only getting like 203 hundred 704 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,600 600 views because of the algorithm. 705 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,360 But the algorithm changes so much that it's like some days 706 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,280 I'll get a lot, some days I'll get a little. 707 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,800 But I'm I'm I'm constantly getting, hey, do you want this 708 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,640 for free from companies? But I think they blind test 709 00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:21,160 because I, I think I've already said this hair products woman's 710 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,080 woman's makeup like no, I don't want it. 711 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,800 My my daughter's might. But now. 712 00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,320 I'm good that's. Fine, like true Classic. 713 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:32,840 I'm wearing a true classic shirt right now. 714 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,400 They sent me free shoes so. Nice. 715 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:36,840 Thanks. True classic. 716 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,720 Yeah, yeah, I know, I know. We got to wrap it up. 717 00:40:40,720 --> 00:40:43,960 But one more time, give a give the audience the name of the 718 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:47,000 book and where they can find it and where they can find you on 719 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,960 the social media. Name of the book is just for 720 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,880 today. Small words for heavy days. 721 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,520 Good companion book to bring anywhere if you need just a good 722 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,600 pick me up if you're missing somebody available on 723 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,480 Amazon.com. I didn't do expanded with this 724 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:11,960 because expanded takes a little bit more percentage of what I 725 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,400 can, what I can make. You can find me on social media, 726 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,600 Poet Jay on Instagram and Facebook. 727 00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,600 My regular Facebook is Jay Angleston TikTok. 728 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:28,680 I'm at Jay Angleston and my other one is nostalgia time 50. 729 00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:32,680 I don't know why they gave me the 50, but that was my my 730 00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:36,000 handle. I got some book signings in the 731 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,080 works and then talks with Whitehall High School about 732 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,800 doing a book signing for the dad clock, hopefully with the next 733 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,680 couple months. And I think that that'll be the, 734 00:41:48,680 --> 00:41:50,160 the icing on the cake for that book. 735 00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:59,480 I mean, again, the the the feedback and the sales and the 736 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,880 overall take for that book is gone well above and beyond what 737 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:11,080 I would have ever imagined. So the other books, hopefully 738 00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:15,080 the the psychological thriller Welcome Home will be out 739 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:18,320 hopefully within the next couple months and July I. 740 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:21,200 Am I like I'm looking? Well, I'll. 741 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,840 I'll send you the transcript via via e-mail like I did this one. 742 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,280 No, don't do that I I want to I. Want you want the actual 743 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,240 physical? All right, I'll, I'll wait for 744 00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:32,240 that. I want to touch it, feel it. 745 00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:36,840 I want to open the pages and smell it, but I'm, I am, I'm 746 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:40,000 really excited about reading it. You know, I've enjoyed all the 747 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,000 books that you've put out so far and. 748 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,680 I appreciate. It and this being so, so 749 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:51,080 different, I'm really excited to see I'm, I'm excited to hear the 750 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:55,360 story, but I'm also just excited to see how you do with it and 751 00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,600 how it comes out. So I'm I'm pumped. 752 00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,120 I just got to let go of the my concept of wanting to be 753 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:05,480 perfect. But I think, I think I'm through 754 00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:06,880 that. I just need a little bit break 755 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,520 because, you know, again, people tend to think that, you know, 756 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,080 this is a 45 minute to an hour thing a day. 757 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,600 And sometimes it like I've been, I've written for 9 hours 758 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,920 straight before, take a little break to eat, go to the 759 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,520 bathroom, sit back down and, and just let it all out. 760 00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:32,440 And then yeah, it's both cathartic and it can be a pain 761 00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:34,720 in the ass, but that's the the best. 762 00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,640 It's it's the best, the best form of self torture I think you 763 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,160 can give yourself because at the end it's gratification. 764 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:46,600 So I can't complain and I'm never, if I ever complain, you 765 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,680 can choke me out. OK, that's fair. 766 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,320 I did probably the only way I could choke you, Jay. 767 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,720 You'd have to let me do it. So listen, man, I I appreciate 768 00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:58,000 you. I love what you're doing. 769 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,120 I really enjoy your books, you know, and I appreciate coming on 770 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:03,200 the show and talking about him, man. 771 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,600 And I appreciate you having me on here and I appreciate our 772 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,200 friendship and the support. Can't, can't beat that, man. 773 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:14,240 And, and having just be able to talk to you and having other 774 00:44:14,240 --> 00:44:17,320 people see our conversations and, and, and know what's going 775 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,000 on. And, you know, anybody's life 776 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,480 is, it's cool to me. I'm always been a podcast fan. 777 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,960 And, and it's cool when the podcaster is your friend and you 778 00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,200 can get down to the nuts and bolts and not have to worry 779 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:29,760 about saying something that you probably should have said 780 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:34,080 because I feel comfortable enough with you there. 781 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,800 I'm like, oh. I shouldn't have said that. 782 00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,440 Well, it's good. It's good because I never felt 783 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:42,840 that way after I left one of these, so we're good on that. 784 00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:45,920 Good, good, good. Hopefully the next one we can we 785 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,480 can do in person here. Sounds good, brother.