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All right, welcome back everyone
to buying local. 

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I'm your host Mike Nelson, 555 
Tower 5 Towers media. 

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Thanks for listening everybody 
excited today to be joined by 

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Phil Phil, my listeners know 
because I say it every show, but

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I always mess up everyone's 
name. 

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So I'm going to attempt it 
though that's. 

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Good, Mike, come on, You got 
this. 

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I'm here with Phil Vacchio. 
Vacchio, Vacchio, the chapter. 

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Is more. 
I knew that Italian, yeah. 

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You'd be a little more Italian 
in your life. 

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Yeah. 
Vacchio, vacchio, vacchio. 

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Right. 
Hey, Phil. 

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Vacchio, I knew I was going to 
mess it up. 

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Yeah. 
It's. 

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It's it's my shtick. 
I just do it on purpose. 

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That's right, entertainment. 
That's it. 

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Phil's from Herzog Law, Yes, you
guys do a lot of things estate 

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planning. 
Would you say planning elder law

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is That's our, that's our niche 
really. 

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State planning elder law, 
probates, administrations. 

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We do some real estate also but 
focus mostly on on that area. 

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On that area. 
And pretty, pretty niche. 

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I mean, there's a huge, a huge 
need for it, you know, 

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population continuing to grow on
the elder law side, people 

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continuing to get older. 
You know, that generation, baby 

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generation is a huge generation 
of people, transfers of wealth 

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from the, you know, that 
generation when they pass away, 

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all that stuff is kind of 
interconnected in what we do and

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it, you know, it's helping the 
clients and their families. 

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It's a transactional kind of law
for the most part, right? 

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I'm not, I'm not on LA suits 
where I'm pretending to be a 

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lawyer and litigating, Right, 
Right. 

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All these crazy scenarios. 
Not that I don't see a lot of 

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crazy scenarios. 
You're not screaming at people 

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in the courtroom. 
No, no, I don't. 

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I'm not. 
I try not to. 

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Yeah. 
You know, if I don't have to. 

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Or in the conference room. 
I'm screaming my. 

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Clients. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Probably not a great strategy. 
I don't think so. 

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I don't think they'd appreciate.
That what do you get? 

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Do you find yourself like in 
courtroom though? 

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Yeah. 
So not that I'm not in court. 

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My court exposure is more 
limited to 1 when people pass 

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away, right, Probates and 
administration handling things 

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in courts, which I'll talk a 
little more about trying to 

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avoid that situation people 
later in the show, but often 

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times it's necessary. 
So I'll be in court for that. 

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Sometimes those get contested, 
as you can imagine, you know, 

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son and daughter fighting over 
the Christmas village and that 

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that kind of thing happens 
somewhat frequently. 

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So the after death type stuff, 
we're in court for that 

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frequently. 
And then guardianships. 

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So whether it's for older 
individuals who have lost 

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capacity and didn't plan 
properly with the appropriate 

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documents, right, we might have 
to have them declared 

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incompetent and have someone 
appointed to be their guardian 

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to handle things for them. 
That's a court, you know, 

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that's, it's a formal court 
hearing in New York Supreme 

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Court. 
And also for kids who are 

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disabled rights like 
intellectual disability, 

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developmental disabilities, when
those children turn 18, they're 

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adults, you know, despite the 
disability, their parents simply

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don't have the right to continue
to make decisions and handle 

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things for them even though 
they're incapacitated, cannot do

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such themselves. 
So that's another type of 

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guardianship we'll go to and 
that's usually in surrogates 

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court. 
We'll go to surrogates court and

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get, that's called an Article 
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who's developmentally or 
intellectually disabled. 

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But that's pretty much my 
exposure to court and that in 

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court. 
Yeah. 

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And, and, and those matters are 
not, I handle plenty of them, 

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but more, more my day-to-day 
stuff is more the transactional 

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stuff, the planning side, asset 
protection side, applying for 

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Medicaid for people. 
That's what I'm spending most of

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my time doing. 
Yeah, that's what I love doing. 

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I don't mind court, but I'd 
rather be helping families 

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navigate their their issues, 
putting things in place for 

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their future. 
There's a lot of appreciation in

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that area of law. 
Like you get to have a family 

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with an issue come to me, you 
create a plan, you help the 

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issue. 
They're very thankful, right? 

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I'm not, you know, litigating 2 
partners over a contract dispute

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and and everyone walks away 
pissed off despite the results. 

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So I find that to be really 
rewarding. 

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I was about to say a little bit 
more. 

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Rewarding than I'd say yeah. 
So and I should say to you guys 

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are a community partner, yes and
very grateful for. 

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That very happy to be very 
excited. 

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Yeah, Thank you together for 
everyone at Herzogwa. 

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Thank you. 
And you guys are just recently 

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expanding. 
Yeah. 

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So we should talk before we get 
because I want to get into the 

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state stuff. 
And I'm actually, you know, as 

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as I was getting ready for you 
to come on the show, I was like,

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how do you make a state law 
exciting? 

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Right. 
Well. 

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What do you mean very excited? 
Well, no, that's what the, I 

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mean, I have the benefit, 
obviously, we're in a weekly 

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group, Gold Star in Saratoga 
Springs. 

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So I get to hear about it pretty
often and hear some of the 

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stories that you tell. 
And it actually is really 

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interesting. 
Yeah, some of the stories that 

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you've told and the situations 
that arise. 

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And I don't think that people, I
think they hear state planning 

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and they're like, Oh yeah, I'll 
get around to it. 

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Or, you know, I'm not sure. 
I don't really have many assets.

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I don't think I really need that
or I don't think people 

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understand the full breadth of 
what it means. 

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Absolutely. 
Right. 

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And it and it's one of the 
easiest things to, you know, put

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your head in the sand about and 
I'll get back to that. 

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I don't want to talk about those
heavy topics with my kids, with 

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my family, Just let's put it off
one more day. 

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And, you know, five years later,
we haven't done anything still. 

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And I hear that every day, like 
every time I meet with a client,

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they're like, we should have did
this five years ago, 10 years 

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ago, but we didn't. 
And I say, well, you know, 

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whatever, no harm, no foul. 
You made it, nothing happened. 

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We're OK, let's get it in place 
now. 

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But yeah, a lot of 
misconceptions about whether 

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it's necessary, it's a non 
necessary different scenarios 

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that I'll bring up. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

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I think it'd be a good idea to 
talk about the firm first, like 

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you mentioned. 
So tell us about the firm. 

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So Herzog Law Firm, the firm 
itself has been around for about

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78 years, so a long time in the 
Capital Region, which is a 

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testament to the quality of 
services they provided. 

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Yeah, I've only been with them 
for about two years now. 

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OK, right. 
A quick, quick little yes I was.

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The listeners can't. 
Pick up on it already. 

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And you know, Mike, I'm from 
Long Island, originally escaped 

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about four years ago. 
Now that that flew, it's been 

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four years. 
Was it a movie? 

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What escape from Long Island? 
Possibly. 

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Maybe. 
Or no. 

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That was an escape from LA. 
Sorry. 

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That was a snake Liskin with 
Kurt Russell. 

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You ever see that? 
No. 

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Wasn't that an escape from New 
York City? 

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I think there was 2. 
Or maybe there was 2. 

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Of them, I think they did two of
them because one of them did so 

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well. 
Stuck in it on the ground like. 

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Yeah, something like magical. 
It was like one of my mom's 

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favorite movies, which is. 
Weird. 

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Good old 80 foot. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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Exactly. 
All right. 

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Sorry, a little tangible. 
So, yeah, I, I, I moved up from 

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Long Island about four years 
ago. 

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My wife and I, now three kids, 
just wanted to change a pace, 

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change a life. 
I was a partner at a firm down 

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there doing the same type of 
law, stay planning, elder law, 

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same stuff. 
I created a, a new branch of 

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that firm up here in the Capital
Region and I was renting space 

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from another firm that didn't do
what we do and growing that 

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practice up here. 
And about two years ago or a 

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little more than two years ago, 
I got approached that the, you 

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know, my now current partners at
Herzog law firm, They had a need

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for, for somebody with my skill 
set. 

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They were growing right place, 
right time decided to come on 

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and it was one of the best 
professional moves for me. 

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It's been fantastic. 
And again, high quality. 

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I vetted them very closely, 
right. 

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I don't want to get in 
partnership with people that I 

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don't I feel practice the same 
way I do and they certainly do. 

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So joined over there and since 
then we've continued to grow 

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exponentially, right. 
So we have our main offices in 

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Albany over in corporate woods 
or I would call second main 

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office is in Saratoga Springs 
over on division and railroad. 

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We have a satellite office down 
in Kingston, NY that we do a lot

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of work in. 
And then our newest area we're 

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opening up is up in Queensbury, 
the 719 Bay Rd. in in 

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Queensbury. 
And they're they're building 

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that out currently. 
It's a new space in what's 

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called Fowler Square, I think 
you're familiar with. 

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So you know, a mix of high end 
condos and there's a small 

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commercial area that we're going
to build into our office. 

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So we're actually seeing people 
there now, but we're using the 

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leasing office temporarily to 
meet clients. 

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And then once the space is built
out, it can be a nice, beautiful

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office and going to be excited 
to see lots of people up there. 

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Yeah, that's fun. 
Yeah. 

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So and how do you, so do you 
guys all kind of rotate around 

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through the different offices 
depending on where the clients 

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are or how does that or do you 
have two degree attorneys that 

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work in each location or how 
does that work? 

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For you, yeah, 2° right. 
So we have a scheduling 

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coordinator that kind of figures
that out for the most part. 

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But like me personally, I'm 
usually Monday, Fridays in the 

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Albany office, Wednesday, 
Thursdays in the Saratoga 

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office, Tuesday I'm floating 
around depending on where the 

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business is. 
And the other attorneys are 

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similar. 
So we'll have days that are set 

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that we're in particular office 
and they can schedule around 

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that. 
But, you know, if the need 

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arises is an emergency 
situation, well, you know, often

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times we're meeting clients in 
nursing homes, in their home, in

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a facility if they can't come to
the office. 

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And we'll try to schedule the 
rest of our day around that so 

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we're not just wasting time 
traveling between offices. 

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But yeah, I mean, so it's 
myself, Dave Kubicki and Jane 

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Marie Schaefer are the three 
partners that handle the estate 

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planning and all the low type 
matters. 

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And then we have another 
partner, Dan Glasser, who does 

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all our real estate law. 
Yeah, I think I know that name. 

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Dan Glasser. 
You've probably met him 

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somewhere. 
You're everywhere, Mike. 

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Who don't you know, come? 
On I just had a lunch 

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appointment actually with a 
client and we were, we were 

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having that conversation because
he's like, he's like, you seem 

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to know everybody around town. 
He's like, I don't know anybody.

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And I was like, it's just 
because I have a newspaper and 

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a, you know, like I'm constantly
harassing. 

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People. 
For interviews. 

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And yeah, they're probably like,
oh, what's that Mike Nelson guy 

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again? 
Jeez. 

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Yeah, look the other way. 
Run. 

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So and you're a partner. 
At Verza, yeah. 

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And I'm always fascinated about 
how that works. 

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Like do do all law firms kind of
run the same structure as far as

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like you come on as a as an 
associate? 

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Associate initially. 
Initially. 

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Yeah. 
And then you become junior 

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partner part. 
Like how does that typically 

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work for a law firm? 
It depends on the the structure 

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of the firm, the size of the 
firm, various factors, right, 

228
00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:20,400
Like the the larger firms that 
have like, you know, nationwide 

229
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,320
100 partners, that might be a 
longer track depending you're in

230
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,880
associate for a longer time. 
You know, you show your worth, 

231
00:10:28,560 --> 00:10:32,600
you bring work in, you bring 
revenue in, go up the ranks. 

232
00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,840
Yeah, I I'm still somewhat 
young. 

233
00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,240
I just happened to be again, 
some some stuff, Right place, 

234
00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,080
right time. 
I like to externalize my 

235
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,600
accomplishments. 
I take credit. 

236
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:44,440
Yeah, it's not because your 
hard. 

237
00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,680
Work, no, not at all, no. 
But that was really, I was a 

238
00:10:47,680 --> 00:10:50,600
partner of the other firm that 
that happened somewhat young and

239
00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,880
then when I moved up here, I, 
you know, was an associate first

240
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:55,400
at Herzog. 
You can't make me a partner 

241
00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:56,520
right away. 
You got to feel me out, make 

242
00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,880
sure I'm right fit. 
But I became a partner after 

243
00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,040
about a year there. 
So yeah, I just, you know, 

244
00:11:04,160 --> 00:11:06,480
joining the leadership table, 
you prove yourself, prove your 

245
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,400
worth, hopefully. 
Make yourself unfireable, I 

246
00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:11,840
always like to say. 
That was been my mentality since

247
00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:14,360
I was, you know, a lifeguard at 
a local pool. 

248
00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:15,640
Yeah. 
No matter what you do, make 

249
00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,520
yourself invaluable. 
Do you do you think, and I'm 

250
00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,880
going to just pull in some 
little fun facts here, do you 

251
00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,160
think that your wrestling 
background helped with that at 

252
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:23,640
all? 
Yeah. 

253
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:27,080
Well, work ethic, right? 
So 2, two things we're the 

254
00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,560
foundation of my work ethic. 
So one, my, my pops is an 

255
00:11:30,560 --> 00:11:33,480
Italian immigrant came over when
he was 14 or 15. 

256
00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,440
I always forget, but you know, 
started working right away. 

257
00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:39,800
I'm one of nine kids, Irish 
American family, 9 kids. 

258
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,600
It's I don't know what my 
parents were thinking, but 

259
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:43,600
that's what the life they wanted
to live. 

260
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,640
It's good for them. 
But he, you know, he worked, you

261
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,440
know, 6-7 days a week. 
He was a commercial roofer in 

262
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,720
New York City, just worked his 
butt off. 

263
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,240
And that's, that's what he did. 
That's what was, you know, what 

264
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,600
I saw was expected of the person
providing for their family. 

265
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,920
So, you know, I've been working 
since I was like 10 years old, 

266
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,000
just doing various jobs. 
I worked with him some summers 

267
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,400
and winters doing hard, you 
know, manual labour, commercial 

268
00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,280
roofing type stuff. 
And then yeah, wrestling. 

269
00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:14,840
So high school wrestling. 
I was, I was, I was good. 

270
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,800
I was the, you know, I was good 
at wrestling. 

271
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,640
You could say it naturally. 
And I love doing it. 

272
00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,000
You know, I did it year round, 
went to some of the bigger 

273
00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,640
summer camps that you know, any 
wrestlers have heard of Jay 

274
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:30,760
Robinson out in Minnesota? 
It's a month long routine based 

275
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:33,680
off of the Army Ranger routine 
that the coach of Minnesota. 

276
00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:35,040
Was an Army Ranger himself. 
Yeah. 

277
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,400
So, you know, super intense, 
nasty, nasty stuff, you know, 

278
00:12:39,120 --> 00:12:40,680
mental deprivation, all that 
kind of stuff. 

279
00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:45,440
And that just, you know, 
instills in you an ethic of hard

280
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:47,760
work. 
And if you want something, you 

281
00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:50,800
work for it and you will achieve
it If if, if you want it bad 

282
00:12:50,800 --> 00:12:52,800
enough and you put the work in. 
And I think that applies to 

283
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:57,200
every area of life, whether it's
being a lawyer or construction 

284
00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:59,160
worker, whatever you're doing, 
or being a father, doesn't 

285
00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:00,200
matter. 
Being a father, Yeah. 

286
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,120
Put the work in, Yeah? 
Put the work in SO. 

287
00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,400
Yes, that I think that I do 
attribute a lot of my at least 

288
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,920
work ethic and whoever come from
that experience for sure. 

289
00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:09,120
Yeah, yeah. 
I want to bring that. 

290
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:13,040
I mean, we do obviously have a 
couple of of the jiu jitsu 

291
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,080
people that listen to the 
podcast pretty regularly. 

292
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,280
So, you know, nice like to fluff
up the the grappling community 

293
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:19,880
whenever we. 
Love the grappling community and

294
00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,360
I've mentioned to you like my 
son's in jiu jitsu now he's 

295
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,280
seven years old and I've joined.
I haven't had much time to 

296
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,560
actually go, but it's one of 
those things like you missed 

297
00:13:31,560 --> 00:13:33,720
that aspect of life, the 
competition, the training. 

298
00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,600
So trying to get back into that 
too in in my abundance of free 

299
00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:37,480
time. 
Yeah, yeah. 

300
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,400
And all the free time I, I I'd 
share it. 

301
00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:43,480
I trying to get in for roles and
it's hard to hard to get in 

302
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,320
there and, and train. 
But yeah. 

303
00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,720
And now I've got in my head, I 
want to do some Muay Thai too. 

304
00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:49,320
So I want to do some striking 
and like that. 

305
00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,600
I keep saying I'm going to do 
that. 

306
00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,680
They have that the place I go to
also, yeah. 

307
00:13:52,680 --> 00:13:55,080
So, yeah, and you're at, you're 
at Eddie Fivey. 

308
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,040
Eddie Fivey, yeah, we go most 
into the Molto one, but he has 

309
00:13:58,040 --> 00:13:59,720
the Niskayuna location. 
I didn't know that. 

310
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:00,080
Yeah. 
Oh. 

311
00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:02,960
Nice Niskayuna place too. 
Man, there's so much jiu jitsu 

312
00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:03,960
around that. 
It's crazy. 

313
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,160
It's become a huge thing. 
I mean, it's always been big, 

314
00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:08,600
but I feel like nowadays it's 
it's bigger than it's ever been.

315
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,840
It's huge, Yeah. 
And every time I talk about jiu 

316
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,480
jitsu, I have to shout out to 
Chad baby, because he's like the

317
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:18,040
OG, like all jiu jitsu. 
Yeah, in the area, somehow came 

318
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,840
out of Chad. 
I met him early on when I first 

319
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,680
moved up here through an 
attorney. 

320
00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:23,920
Tony. 
Tony Iannello. 

321
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,000
Yeah. 
Who you know, and because they 

322
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:30,560
wanted me to write some articles
for Sarah. 

323
00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:31,640
So good today. 
Yeah. 

324
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,760
So there was some articles in 
the Chad and he had explained to

325
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:38,120
me that Eddie bought the gym. 
Yeah, used to be Spa City jiu 

326
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:39,120
jitsu, Yeah. 
Yeah. 

327
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,560
So, yeah, and Chad was legit 
like 30 years ago. 

328
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,200
He was the only guy up here. 
It was like that. 

329
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,400
He was telling me stories about 
it was like him and like four 

330
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,880
other guys that would, like, 
roll in a guy's basement and do 

331
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,800
jiu jitsu, and then he'd like go
down to New York City and train 

332
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,240
with. 
I don't know if it was it was 

333
00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:56,320
one of the Gracie's I maybe 
it's. 

334
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,000
One of the 1000. 
Gracie, Yeah. 

335
00:14:59,960 --> 00:15:03,160
But he he's really big on 
lineage and he's really, and he 

336
00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,120
is, I mean almost all jiu jitsu 
in the area. 

337
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,720
And you, you can possibly not 
all, but almost all jiu jitsu in

338
00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,440
the area came out of Chad Beatty
in in some form. 

339
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:13,880
Crazy. 
Yeah. 

340
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,720
It's crazy and how how 
underground it was at that time.

341
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,040
Going around someone's base, 
five guys doing jiu. 

342
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,040
Jitsu was just hanging out. 
Well. 

343
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:22,800
It's changed since then. 
That's EV. 

344
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:23,600
Yeah. 
All right. 

345
00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:24,320
So back to. 
Lawyering. 

346
00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:25,440
It's lawyering. 
Estate planning. 

347
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:26,960
Why are we here? 
Hi. 

348
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,680
I doubt it. 
So I you know, one of the things

349
00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:32,520
now again, and I know that 
you'll share a couple of 

350
00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:34,960
stories, but one of the things 
that I thought was really 

351
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:39,480
interesting about estate 
planning is, as we said, most 

352
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,000
people dismiss it. 
Yeah, even though from what I've

353
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,880
heard so far from you, everybody
needs it every. 

354
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:48,120
Adult person does. 
Yeah, Every adult person, even 

355
00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,120
if you only have a little bit of
assets, you should still have 

356
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,560
certain things set up. 
And the fact that we live in a 

357
00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,080
country that has. 
It's so complicated, Yeah. 

358
00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,400
Like the rules around what 
happens when you die and what 

359
00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,280
happens to you, your things, 
your assets, the people you 

360
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,920
care. 
Like it's crazy of how. 

361
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,800
You can't get very crazy. 
Yeah, state specific, you know, 

362
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,160
if you have properties in 
multiple states, one state might

363
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,240
not have jurisdiction of the 
property in the other state. 

364
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:19,520
Now your family's in court in 
five different states, right. 

365
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:23,280
So, yeah, planning properly, you
figuring all that stuff out 

366
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,560
while you're alive, putting a 
little extra work in now for 

367
00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,920
yourself is going to pay 
dividends to your family down 

368
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,760
the road in terms of simplifying
things, reducing cost, reducing 

369
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:34,680
stress. 
It's it's so important. 

370
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,880
And but you know, you mentioned 
everyone needs an estate plan. 

371
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,680
I hear all the time I'm too 
young, I'm too old, I'm too poor

372
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:44,600
to I have too much money to, to 
to protect assets. 

373
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,320
I hear everything and everything
in between that as well. 

374
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,160
I do power of attorney in 
healthcare proxies for 18 year 

375
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,520
olds, right. 
So you're a parent, Mike, 

376
00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:59,120
Child's going away to college. 
Maybe that child does a sport or

377
00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,200
whatever that child does. 
If that child gets hurt while 

378
00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,680
they're away, can you call the 
school or the nurse or whoever 

379
00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:07,880
they're with and get 
information? 

380
00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,560
I'm, I'm, I'm her dad from his 
dad. 

381
00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:12,200
What happened? 
They need to talk to the 

382
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:13,920
insurance company. 
They're not going to speak to 

383
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,680
you after you're after they're 
18 years old. 

384
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,920
They're an adult. 
So I'll, I'll do power of 

385
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,760
attorney, healthcare proxies for
young kids who are 18. 

386
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,640
Well, and adults now who are 
1819 years old just in case 

387
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:26,440
something happens. 
Their, their mom, their dad, 

388
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:29,400
whoever has the authority to 
speak to someone to handle 

389
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,120
things for them. 
Telling an 18 year old, hey, 

390
00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,960
sign this document giving mom or
dad permission to, to handle 

391
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:37,400
stuff for you. 
Again, sometimes it's like, 

392
00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:39,240
whoa, I just, I just got my 
freedom. 

393
00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,000
Here what are you? 
Talking about, but when you 

394
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,280
explain it, you know, we can 
make the document limited in 

395
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:45,880
scope. 
They have the authority to 

396
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,040
revoke it as soon as you get 
back from college or you get 

397
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:49,920
married, you want to change it 
to somebody else. 

398
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:51,640
Don't worry about it. 
We can do all those things. 

399
00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:54,360
You're not giving up your 
freedom, but we're planning for 

400
00:17:54,360 --> 00:17:56,040
worst case scenario something 
happens to you, right? 

401
00:17:56,280 --> 00:18:00,120
So that's like the first part of
life where maybe some of these 

402
00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:03,280
documents make sense. 
And then obviously start to get 

403
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:07,200
older, graduate college. 
The most common time of life 

404
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,960
that I have clients come in to 
do some kind of plan is when 

405
00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,800
they have their first kids 
usually, right. 

406
00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:14,880
Because all of a sudden you are 
responsible for the life of 

407
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,040
another human being. 
And if I have kids and something

408
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:22,600
happens to, for me, my, my wife 
and I and my kids are under 18, 

409
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:24,800
you know one who, who's taking 
custody of them. 

410
00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,320
Yeah, I mentioned I'm one of 
nine kids. 

411
00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,400
Out of those nine kids, some I 
would not want to have. 

412
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,760
My kids. 
Some I would be OK with, right? 

413
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:35,000
I want to, I want to decide who 
that's going to be. 

414
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,240
I don't want them to fight over,
oh, Phil would have wanted me. 

415
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,600
So in a in a valid will, we can 
specify who would be the 

416
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,000
guardian who would take custody 
until they're 18. 

417
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,000
I don't want an 18 year old 
inheriting a bunch of money, you

418
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:49,440
know? 
What would you do at 18 if you 

419
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,400
just got Oh? 
My God. 

420
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:52,600
The truckload of money, or 
whatever it may. 

421
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,640
Be spend it in a week. 
All good decisions, right? 

422
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:56,800
You'd invest it wisely and let 
it grow for you, right? 

423
00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:57,520
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

424
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,800
So often times, you know, you're
not financially mature yet at 

425
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,520
18. 
So we would hate to have an 18 

426
00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:06,360
year old get control of money in
in a will and other documents I 

427
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,120
could trust. 
We can put limitations, right? 

428
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,160
So we can say, and I'm just 
going to use random arbitrary 

429
00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,080
ages and numbers to illustrate 
it, If I pass away and any of my

430
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:17,480
kids are inheriting or even if 
it's grandkids and they're under

431
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:22,600
the age of let's say 25, that 
grandchild, that child shares 

432
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:24,080
and go to him, her outright, 
right? 

433
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,720
It gets held in a further trust 
account for their benefit. 

434
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,840
They don't get control until 
they turn 25, until they turn 

435
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,760
25. 
I'm going to put my, you know, 

436
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,960
my brother Eric as the trustee. 
He's going to manage it for 

437
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,080
them. 
If they need money for school, 

438
00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,840
for health, for support, they go
to Uncle Eric and this is what I

439
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:42,960
need money for. 
Uncle Eric says, yes, Uncle 

440
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,120
Eric, I want to buy a Ferrari. 
Uncle Eric says, no. 

441
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,600
What's the idea? 
We're setting parameters, 

442
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,880
repeating people in in control 
that we trust. 

443
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,320
And then hopefully when that 
child turns 25 or whatever age 

444
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,880
you pick, he or she's mature 
enough to then take control, 

445
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,320
right? 
I mean, you know, you can't plan

446
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,400
for every. 
Situation, we don't know how 

447
00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:04,400
they're all going to turn out, 
but there's there's certain 

448
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,920
things we can account for, use 
statistics, what not to plan 

449
00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:10,680
for, that kind of stuff. 
So that's a very common time of 

450
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,600
life to get some documents in 
order. 

451
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,080
Usually for someone like that, 
whether it's an individual or a 

452
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,800
couple, what I call the basic 
estate plan, a foundation estate

453
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:25,600
plan is going to be sufficient. 
Normally that consists of a 

454
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:29,280
will, but what's actually known 
as the last will and testament, 

455
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,160
a power of attorney and a 
healthcare proxy. 

456
00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:34,800
So the will says when I die, 
who's in charge? 

457
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:36,680
Where does my stuff go? 
That's where I can name the 

458
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,440
guardians, I can name the 
trustees and the ages. 

459
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,160
All that stuff I just discussed 
goes in my last one Testament, 

460
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:46,280
power of attorney, healthcare 
proxy is while I'm alive. 

461
00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:48,560
So those two documents are only 
valid while I'm living. 

462
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,320
Once I pass away, they're no one
void, but they're really for the

463
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,920
purpose. 
If I become incapacitated and 

464
00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:59,240
can't handle my medical or non 
medical matters, who has legal 

465
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,520
authority to step in and handle 
those matters for me? 

466
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,360
Even if you're married just 
because you're married, that 

467
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,280
marriage certificate doesn't 
necessarily give my wife the 

468
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,080
authority to go manage my Iras 
or talk to my insurance 

469
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:12,000
companies. 
She would still need to be my 

470
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:14,480
primary power of attorney to be 
able to handle those things for 

471
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:16,400
me and a. 
Lot of people think that, yeah. 

472
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,080
Oh. 
I would say the majority people 

473
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:19,360
do. 
We're married. 

474
00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:21,560
What do you mean? 
I can anything that's that's his

475
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:23,560
is mine. 
Mine is, you know, we can handle

476
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,120
anything and it's just simply 
not true. 

477
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,840
So even if you are married, you 
want to have that spouse as your

478
00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:31,200
primary person. 
If, if you want that, not that 

479
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,440
you have to have your spouse as 
your primary, that's not always 

480
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,920
the case. 
I've seen everything. 

481
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,200
But yes, you should still have 
that person as the primary and 

482
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,400
then backups across the board. 
When you're planning, you are 

483
00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:46,240
planning based on the 
information that's in front of 

484
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,280
you right now, but you want to 
make these documents as future 

485
00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:51,080
proof as possible. 
And I always say to my clients 

486
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:53,760
during a console, it's my job to
be Mr. Morbid. 

487
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,200
Mr. Worst case scenario, I'm 
going to bring you down a deep, 

488
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,120
dark rabbit hole with me that 
you've never gotten that before.

489
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,200
But we're going to go down it 
together now. 

490
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,800
We're going to think about it. 
We're going to make decisions, 

491
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,200
we're going to put it in place 
and then guess what? 

492
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,000
Then you don't have to think 
about it anymore. 

493
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,000
We want to account for as much 
as we can. 

494
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,400
That person passes away. 
Who's the backup? 

495
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,600
Even a second level backup. 
If these are my beneficiaries, 

496
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,680
one of them passes away, is 
their share going to their kids?

497
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,560
Is it going somewhere else? 
So backups for everything is is 

498
00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,400
advisable. 
Yeah, it's, it's, it didn't 

499
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:28,360
occur to me until recently you 
were telling a story at Gold 

500
00:22:28,360 --> 00:22:31,000
Star actually. 
And, and I'm trying to remember 

501
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,440
the specific story, but it was 
it just it, what I heard was 

502
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,920
there's so many different 
eventualities that can happen, 

503
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,200
so many possibilities of what 
can take place, that the purpose

504
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,760
of a lot of this is to try to 
cover as many bases as you can 

505
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,000
think of so that there's a plan 
so that, like you said, like you

506
00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:53,520
don't have to think about it. 
And there's probably not a 

507
00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:56,200
document that will cover every 
single you know. 

508
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,960
No one single. 
Potential outcome, but you know 

509
00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:01,800
the idea behind having someone 
like yourself that's doing it 

510
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,520
and does it every day. 
Like you have seen a lot of 

511
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,640
different circumstances and it 
gives you the ability to 

512
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,800
formulate a better plan. 
Yeah, and then that's one of the

513
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,560
benefits of using an experienced
attorney in this, in this area. 

514
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:16,000
You know, you can go online and 
go to, you know, Rocket Lawyer 

515
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,440
or some other sites and pay us, 
you know, a couple 100 bucks, 

516
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,520
we'll print you out. 
New York State power of 

517
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,560
attorney, healthcare proxy will 
and you fill in the blanks and 

518
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,720
you're going to be set. 
But those documents are not 

519
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,800
going to account for all those 
situations you mentioned, right?

520
00:23:30,800 --> 00:23:32,320
The the computer's not asking 
you. 

521
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,200
Hey, what, what do you, where do
you see yourself in 5-10 years? 

522
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,160
What's your plan? 
What are your goals? 

523
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,120
Are your kids disabled? 
This and that? 

524
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,080
You know, we're, we're going to 
have a full discussion during a 

525
00:23:41,080 --> 00:23:42,200
console. 
I'm going to ask you a lot of 

526
00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,960
questions about yourself to get 
to know you, your situation, 

527
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,320
your goals, and your documents 
should be specifically tailored 

528
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,720
to reflect all that. 
It's not a fill in the blank a 

529
00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,280
lot of people think it is. 
OK, it's easy. 

530
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,040
Anyone could do it. 
I just fill in a few blanks and 

531
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,760
so, you know, chat. 
GBT might be a bad solution for.

532
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,880
Right now, I don't know, in 10 
years am I gonna be out of work,

533
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,800
But according to Bill Gates, I 
may be. 

534
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,240
Yeah, yeah. 
That's crazy. 

535
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:08,600
It's nuts. 
It's just nuts. 

536
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,000
So using professional, obviously
there's some weight to that. 

537
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,480
So advisable, I mean, even even 
just the signing of the 

538
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,920
documents, this formalities and 
if it's not closely followed 

539
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,720
that document that you thought 
was valid might be invalid or 

540
00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,920
maybe the way it's drafted or 
the way you executed it doesn't 

541
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:27,520
actually accomplish what you 
thought it would. 

542
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,680
Power of attorney document is a 
great example of that. 

543
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,640
Power of attorney in New York is
quite complicated. 

544
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,680
And if you ever look at the 
document, there is a New York 

545
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,920
State, what they call short form
that you could print out. 

546
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,800
But even the short form, when 
you look at it, there's a bunch 

547
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,640
of different sections and they 
have, they're optional. 

548
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,040
Do I initial here? 
Do I not initial here? 

549
00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:49,840
And if someone's not explaining 
to you really what those 

550
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:53,760
sections mean and how they could
be used in certain situations, 

551
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:54,680
you might be like, I don't need 
that. 

552
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:55,960
That's never going to apply to 
me. 

553
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:58,360
And then guess what? 
You don't initial it. 

554
00:24:58,360 --> 00:25:00,360
And 20 years down the road, it 
does apply to you. 

555
00:25:00,360 --> 00:25:03,520
And now your kids are, you know,
their, their options are much 

556
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:05,960
more limited than they would 
have been if you didn't initial 

557
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,520
that section. 
And then also in the power of 

558
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,240
attorney, there's this area 
called modification section. 

559
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,600
So there's a short storm. 
It's statutory in New York 

560
00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,360
State. 
It's the same across the board, 

561
00:25:15,360 --> 00:25:18,480
the language, but it is 
modification section that allows

562
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,520
us as attorneys to input all 
these other powers that we see 

563
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,160
quite frequently and that we use
quite frequently for our clients

564
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,680
in different situations. 
So that section is tailored 

565
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:31,240
specifically by the law office 
based on the person situation. 

566
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,120
And again, there's options in 
there. 

567
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,400
And one of the biggest things, 
especially as you're aging and 

568
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,680
we start to think about, hey, if
I got sick one day and we've 

569
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,040
heard horror stories of someone 
going into a nursing home and 

570
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,440
losing all of our assets. 
Nursing homes are right now 

571
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,560
about $18,000 a month, which is 
astronomical. 

572
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,320
You think about how quickly or 
your hard earned assets would go

573
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,000
out the window. 
So if I have a power of attorney

574
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,360
and that power of attorney has 
what we call referred to as 

575
00:25:57,360 --> 00:26:00,320
gifting powers. 
And, and if me and you met for 

576
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,000
the first time, Mike and I said,
hey, do you want to give your 

577
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:03,600
power of attorney the power to 
gift? 

578
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,160
You know what? 
What would you think when I say 

579
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,520
that? 
The gift. 

580
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,120
What's a gift? 
Yeah. 

581
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,840
I mean, my first thought is, no,
I don't because they're going to

582
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:16,920
gift all the stuff away. 
But also at the same time, just 

583
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,720
having listened to you before, 
it sounds like that might be 

584
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:22,440
something that could be used to 
protect assets that, say, a 

585
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,360
nursing home could take away. 
That's exactly right. 

586
00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:26,320
Because a gift, legally 
speaking, is any kind of 

587
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,200
uncompensated transfers. 
It's not just gifts for 

588
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,640
birthdays and holidays. 
It's any movement of assets out 

589
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,160
of my name to another person, 
another entity. 

590
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,840
A lot of times we'll create 
different kinds of trusts to 

591
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,280
preserve assets, transfer to 
those trusts, legally speaking, 

592
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,840
or gifts. 
And if I have a power of 

593
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,440
attorney that does not have that
broad of a scope of power for my

594
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:50,440
acting agent, their ability to 
protect assets if I become 

595
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,480
incompetent and need long term 
care are going to be close to 

596
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,640
null. 
So those powers become 

597
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,840
incredibly important, even more 
so as we age. 

598
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:00,600
You know, a lot, again, a lot of
my younger couples when we're 

599
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,640
meeting the first time, we just 
had kids, maybe that power at 

600
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,080
that time is not necessary, 
right? 

601
00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,720
The likelihood of me going into 
a nursing home, barring A tragic

602
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:13,200
accident is, is very low. 
But the older you get, the, the 

603
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,720
greater those, those 
possibilities become. 

604
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:16,080
And that's when we start to 
think about it. 

605
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:21,200
And there's no red line number, 
but for most of my clients, I 

606
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,640
use the range of 60 to 70 or so,
depending on health and 

607
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,680
illnesses and whatnot. 
But 60 or 70 so or so as a rule 

608
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,080
of thumb, when we start to talk 
about also asset protection 

609
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,080
planning, and sometimes that's 
when we have that power of 

610
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,600
attorney discussion. 
Hey, you did this power of 

611
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,240
attorney 20 years ago. 
Did you know you didn't give 

612
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:41,720
these powers and these are what 
these powers can be used for. 

613
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,960
We should maybe do a new one 
broadening the scope of those 

614
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,200
powers. 
That's a good time. 

615
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,000
So these are documents that it's
not a one and done. 

616
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,320
You should review them. 
Oh yeah. 

617
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,080
Like how often should you review
that stuff? 

618
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,360
Rule of thumb again, every five 
years I say at least review 

619
00:27:56,360 --> 00:27:58,320
them, right? 
So our our firm and some other 

620
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:00,440
firms give free consultation. 
So I tell clients when they 

621
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,040
leave, question pops up, 
situation changes, don't be 

622
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:06,600
scared to call me. 
You're not going to get hit with

623
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,000
a bill. 
I want to discuss with you 

624
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,280
because of those changes in 
life, is there a need to adjust 

625
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:13,520
your documents? 
Going back to earlier when I 

626
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:15,160
said we try to make those 
documents as future proof as 

627
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,280
possible, I do try to account 
for a lot so I'm not having to 

628
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:23,120
redo your stuff all the time. 
But some stuff we can't plan 

629
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:26,920
for, and that may make it 
necessary to change those 

630
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:28,840
documents. 
But every five years or so, if 

631
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,080
we don't hear from you, we'll 
reach out. 

632
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:32,640
That's our rule of thumb from 
our firm. 

633
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,600
But again, no bright line rule. 
Major life changes, a death in 

634
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,720
the family, death of a spouse. 
I hit the Lotto. 

635
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:41,800
I sell a business. 
You know, when full of money 

636
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,200
comes in. 
Those are all good reasons to 

637
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:45,880
review. 
At least review your estate plan

638
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,520
and see new changes have to be 
made because sometimes they do. 

639
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,720
It's not a static document, they
should change with you. 

640
00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:54,080
Do you have? 
I don't know what the rules are.

641
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,280
So if you if you can't share, 
you obviously don't have to. 

642
00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:58,840
Trade secrets or do. 
You know, Well, no, Yeah. 

643
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,240
Now, now I'm just wondering 
like, like, do you have like an 

644
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,400
example of where having either 
or let's say power of attorney, 

645
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:09,600
Yeah, not an overall estate plan
yet, but let's say power of 

646
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,240
attorney. 
Like do you have like a story of

647
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,560
when someone had it like save 
their bacon that you can share 

648
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,880
or are you able to share that 
stuff? 

649
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,560
I know that's I figured. 
You had a lot of let's think of 

650
00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:21,920
a recent one, right? 
So a couple weeks ago I had with

651
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,240
a client and this is, this is 
not a happy one. 

652
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,080
This is a -1 right? 
So the, the client, I believe it

653
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,200
was either the son or the 
daughter who came to me and mom 

654
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,440
or dad was in a hospital having 
to go into a nursing home. 

655
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:42,600
Very common scenario. 
Mom or dad had done this day 

656
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,800
planning. 
It wasn't with our firm, but 

657
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:47,240
they had, you know, willpower, 
maternity healthcare proxy in 

658
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:51,400
place, the basic type stuff that
everyone should have and was now

659
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,320
incompetent, meaning that if we 
wanted to change those 

660
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,400
documents, we no longer can 
because the person isn't 

661
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,400
competent enough to sign new 
versions. 

662
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,480
So we were stuck with what they 
had done in the past. 

663
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,000
And they came to me and they 
said, hey, this is a scenario 

664
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,920
Dad still has, you know, 
$200,000 or so in these 

665
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,480
financial accounts, brokerage 
accounts and bank accounts, 

666
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,400
etcetera, is going into a 
nursing home where we're told 

667
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,880
it's 18,000 a month. 
It's crazy. 

668
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:19,840
He worked really hard for those 
assets. 

669
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,920
What can we do here to protect 
some of that? 

670
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,080
And 1st question I asked, can I 
see the power of attorney that 

671
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,640
he prepared? 
I take a look at it. 

672
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:31,600
Lo and behold, that gifting 
power not initial those 

673
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:35,280
modifications blank, right? 
So our that power of attorney is

674
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:37,520
bare bones power of attorney. 
They can pay bills on his 

675
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,800
behalf. 
They can sign applications for 

676
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,680
government benefits. 
They can deal with insurance 

677
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,240
companies. 
What they can't do is move 

678
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,400
money. 
And there was no loopholes here.

679
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:50,040
I won't get into the loopholes 
too much, but there was no 

680
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:51,400
loopholes here to take advantage
of. 

681
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,440
And I said, unfortunately 
there's not much we could do 

682
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,920
here if this power of attorney 
was broader and we have those 

683
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,680
gifting powers we could have in 
this. 

684
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,160
I call that financially 
speaking, the worst case 

685
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,880
scenario because it's a five 
year look back for nursing home 

686
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,400
care if we want Medicaid to pay,
right. 

687
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,520
So if we say, hey, this person 
is going into a nursing home, 

688
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,120
we're going to apply for 
Medicaid to pay for that nursing

689
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,880
home. 
The application process involves

690
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:18,320
looking back five years over 
every financial transaction that

691
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:20,560
person has made. 
So we can't just now give 

692
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,440
everything away to protect it 
because they would say, hey, 

693
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,320
that those transfers within the 
past five years, it's going to 

694
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,840
make him Medicaid ineligible. 
But even in that example, I can 

695
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,000
use a technique that we call 
crisis planning where we do a 

696
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,080
series of gifts and loans, 
right? 

697
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,520
So in that scenario, I would 
have the son or daughter open an

698
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,200
account in his or her name is 
what I call a holding account. 

699
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,360
And we would apply these 
complicated formulas and we 

700
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,680
transfer assets in a series of 
gifts and loans from dad's 

701
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,080
accounts to this account now in 
the son's name. 

702
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:49,480
And at the end of the day, I 
would have been able to protect 

703
00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:54,600
at least half of that money. 
That option is not available 

704
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:57,040
because that power of attorney 
was too limited in scope. 

705
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,440
So I had to be the bearer of bad
news there. 

706
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:01,320
Hey, you know, we could have did
this. 

707
00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:03,760
Unfortunately, in that 
situation, we can't do this. 

708
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,160
So that situation, basically, 
the nursing home's going to 

709
00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:09,400
drain those accounts, Yeah. 
Yeah, they're going to. 

710
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,520
And then Medicaid's going to 
pick up the bill. 

711
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,720
Is that how that works? 
Yeah. 

712
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,040
So they're going to have to 
privately pay. 

713
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:15,480
I mean, maybe there's some 
things that they can spend the 

714
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,520
money down on, right? 
We can do things like prepaid 

715
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,120
for someone's funeral. 
That's an allowable expense. 

716
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,960
So look at some of that stuff. 
How can we spend this money on 

717
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,000
other stuff that's necessary? 
But ultimately, after all that, 

718
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,120
he's going to have to continue 
to pay the nursing home bill 

719
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,800
till the funds are below the 
appropriate Medicaid limit. 

720
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,840
So the Medicaid limit right now 
is about $32,000 for a person. 

721
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,440
So they're going to get down to 
32,000 before they can apply. 

722
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,640
I don't think anyone thinks to 
themselves I'm gonna sock all 

723
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:44,720
this money away so the nursing 
home can have it. 

724
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:46,400
Yeah, right. 
They're gonna work. 

725
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,040
Really hard and make sacrifices 
to give it all to. 

726
00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,680
Right to give it. 
That's my plan home. 

727
00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:52,440
Nothing against you nursing 
homes out there. 

728
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:54,200
I'm sure you're doing great. 
Everyone's gonna make a living, 

729
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,040
but, you know, let's have the 
government. 

730
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,120
Pay. 
Yeah, yeah, that's crazy. 

731
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:00,960
And again, fascinating that you 
have these. 

732
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,520
I, I just don't think that 
stuff's always kind of cool 

733
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,640
where you have like these. 
I don't want to say tricky, but 

734
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:10,120
it's like sophisticated ways of 
being able to do things so that 

735
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,440
you can protect the assets. 
Legal loopholes, right? 

736
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,560
So people say, well, are you 
telling me to do something 

737
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,200
that's not legal? 
I'm going to risk my law degree 

738
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,880
to tell you that what we're 
doing is legal. 

739
00:33:20,120 --> 00:33:22,280
Medicaid has these rules. 
If we navigate those rules 

740
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:24,840
appropriately, we can protect 
some of the assets. 

741
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,760
And, and that was, you know, 
what I mentioned there, worst 

742
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,040
case scenario or even if they 
had the power of attorney, we 

743
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:32,600
could protect about half the 
assets. 

744
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,200
Let's, let's go back in time for
that person, you know, 5-10 

745
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:40,600
years and say we had met and we 
discussed creating what we call 

746
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,120
a Medicaid asset protection 
trust. 

747
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,840
On the flip side, right? 
That is a vehicle, right? 

748
00:33:45,840 --> 00:33:49,040
A trust is basically a document 
with a set of rules that we 

749
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:50,640
create and it becomes its 
entity. 

750
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,480
And that entity can own assets 
the same as UR is individuals 

751
00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:55,320
can. 
And we're going to, we're going 

752
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:59,120
to put some of that person's 
assets in his trust, again, very

753
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,240
personal, specific to the person
because there are certain 

754
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,360
limitations on what we can do 
with the assets we put into the 

755
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,800
trust. 
So we want to balance protecting

756
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,320
assets versus still living our 
lives. 

757
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,159
But we go through that whole 
conversation, we stick a bunch 

758
00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:13,120
of assets. 
Maybe that person owned a family

759
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,520
home or maybe they owned a 
family camp that they want to 

760
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:18,080
keep in the family. 
Stick it in this trust. 

761
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,840
If it's in there for at least 
five years before if it's a 

762
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,719
individual or if it's a husband 
and wife or spouse and spouse 

763
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,800
before either needs nursing home
care, guess what? 

764
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:31,239
Those assets are free and clear,
totally protected 100%, and it's

765
00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,360
going to one day go to your 
heirs, whoever you want that to 

766
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,840
be. 
So advanced planning is even 

767
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:37,440
better. 
We can protect more of the 

768
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:40,199
assets and then whatever we 
leave in the person's name to 

769
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:43,639
live off of, That's where we use
that crisis plan for to protect 

770
00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,159
about half of that on top of 
everything else. 

771
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:48,719
So advanced planning is 
incredibly important. 

772
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:50,600
And when you say advanced 
planning, what you're saying is 

773
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,960
the younger you get in there and
get the plan together and then 

774
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:56,560
revisit that plan on a pretty 
frequent basis. 

775
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,040
That's that's advanced planning 
that instead of. 

776
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:02,480
Not crisis planning, not I'm 
sick, the situation, just. 

777
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,560
Happened and now I've got to 
take action. 

778
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,120
Yeah, be proactive, not reactive
in that sense. 

779
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,680
Yeah, for sure. 
And yeah, revisiting the plan, 

780
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:12,600
like I said, you might not be 
comfortable with certain aspects

781
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,960
or doing this kind of a trust 
when you're in your 30s forties,

782
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,240
but then you're 50 or 60, you're
retiring. 

783
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:20,680
The idea of it might be more 
appealing to you. 

784
00:35:20,760 --> 00:35:23,960
A lot of times we'll meet 
clients who went through 

785
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,320
something with their parents, 
good or bad, right? 

786
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,760
It's meaning that maybe their 
parents failed to plan properly 

787
00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:31,760
and they see the negative of it 
and they're like, oh man, I 

788
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,480
don't want my family to ever go 
through that. 

789
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,920
What do I have to do to avoid 
that? 

790
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:40,120
Or mom or dad plan perfectly and
they see the benefit of it. 

791
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:41,960
Oh my God. 
But what they did, we protected 

792
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,280
all these assets when when they 
passed away, we didn't have to 

793
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:46,640
go to court. 
I want the same for my family. 

794
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,360
So that's learning from 
experience. 

795
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,160
And that's, you know, 
unfortunately, sometimes the 

796
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,120
best way to learn, not that you 
want to learn with the negative 

797
00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:55,800
experiences, but it, it's an eye
opener for a lot of people 

798
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,920
because when you're living your 
life, you're busy taking care of

799
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:01,080
your kids, you have your own, 
you know, running your business 

800
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,920
or, or working hard. 
You're not thinking about this 

801
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,400
stuff every day, nor should you.
It's pretty depressing to think 

802
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,000
about this stuff every day. 
I like to learn lessons the hard

803
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:09,600
way. 
Do you? 

804
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:11,840
I do. 
Everything 3 or 4 times, Yeah, I

805
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:13,720
really like to make sure that 
lesson sinks in. 

806
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,760
Unfortunately, I guess I 
probably can't go into can't die

807
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:21,400
three or four times to. 
No, yeah, that's a one time 

808
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:22,680
thing I think. 
That's for now. 

809
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,880
The word on the street is, yeah,
yeah. 

810
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,600
So, OK, so we've got, I want to 
make sure I've got the pieces 

811
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,960
here. 
We've got power of attorney. 

812
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,520
Yeah, we've got. 
And now, so when, well, let me 

813
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:35,960
back up. 
I'm interrupting myself when I 

814
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,000
say, or when you say estate 
plan, like this is a whole 

815
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,840
encompassing term of a bunch of 
pieces, right. 

816
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:48,000
So power of attorney, healthcare
proxy, healthcare proxy. 

817
00:36:48,240 --> 00:36:52,200
A will having maybe a trust for 
different purposes. 

818
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:54,560
One of those purposes is 
protecting assets. 

819
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,400
You say maybe a trust. 
I feel like I left Gold Star one

820
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,800
day after you doing a commercial
on trust, thinking that like 

821
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,200
everybody on the planet needs a 
trust. 

822
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,040
It's it's, it's when you're very
young, it's a risk benefit 

823
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,320
analysis, right, Because trusts 
are a little bit more expensive 

824
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,960
than your basic doing a 
willpower during healthcare 

825
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,880
proxy, probably not as expensive
as most people think, but more 

826
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,200
expensive. 
And, you know, when you're young

827
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,800
and you just had kids, is it 
very likely that you and your 

828
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,280
spouse are going to both pass 
away in a common accident? 

829
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,640
No, I mean, it's not obviously 
anything is possible. 

830
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:28,360
So I don't want to say no, but 
when we're doing a, you know, 

831
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,480
risk benefit analysis, it 
doesn't make sense to create a 

832
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,160
trust at that time. 
Now, sometimes it does, right, 

833
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,800
say that that young couple, one 
of them owns a business and if 

834
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:41,120
that person died and we had to 
go through probate, a formal 

835
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,480
court proceeding before that 
someone could take over the 

836
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,240
business, that's going to have 
business interruption. 

837
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,120
That could affect the workflow. 
That could affect revenue. 

838
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,080
So as you're saying that I was 
like, I was like, well, I want a

839
00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:52,200
business. 
You do. 

840
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:54,760
I'm talking directly to you. 
Directly to me, I know I'm like,

841
00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,120
I don't have the power of 
return. 

842
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:57,400
I don't have any of that stuff 
to be. 

843
00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:00,440
Fair and and you know, in your 
defense, it's not uncommon, 

844
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:02,880
unfortunately. 
Unfortunately, unfortunately, 

845
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:05,120
I'm rethinking my strategy as 
you speak here. 

846
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:06,760
Phil. 
What the hell am I doing? 

847
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:07,760
Yeah. 
I know. 

848
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:09,360
Wake up, phone. 
I know. 

849
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:09,840
Yeah. 
All right. 

850
00:38:09,840 --> 00:38:11,360
Well, we're going to make 
another appointment, I guess. 

851
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,880
But yeah, I've seen that. 
I've, I've been involved in 

852
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:17,800
helping families with too many 
untimely deaths, right? 

853
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:19,840
So they're, they're a reality. 
Anyone who watches the news 

854
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:24,080
knows that to be true. 
And when I have no estate plan 

855
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,160
at all that that's the worst 
case scenario. 

856
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:29,680
Now all of a sudden, let me ask 
you if I if I was to tell you or

857
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,320
I was to ask you, and you might 
already know this because you've

858
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:33,640
listened to me, but maybe not. 
I don't know. 

859
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:36,520
You have a spouse and you have 
children. 

860
00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:39,600
Let's say you don't have a will 
you pass away? 

861
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,240
Some of the assets are in just 
Mike Nelson's name. 

862
00:38:43,240 --> 00:38:45,400
Whether it's not just the houses
in my name or I have certain 

863
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:46,640
accounts, they're just in my 
name. 

864
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,440
You pass away, right? 
No will survive by a spouse and 

865
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,240
kids. 
Everything goes to your wife 

866
00:38:53,240 --> 00:38:55,360
automatically, right? 
That's what I would assume. 

867
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:57,440
That's what you would assume. 
That's what most people would 

868
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:58,920
assume. 
That's not the case. 

869
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,560
So let's say that the house, 
let's use the house as an 

870
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,520
example because that's a good 
one and this has happened to me 

871
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,240
before. 
All of a sudden you pass away. 

872
00:39:06,240 --> 00:39:10,480
The house isn't just your name. 
Your wife would get the 1st 

873
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:15,800
50,000 of the value of the house
and then half of the remainder 

874
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,480
of the value and your kids would
inherit the other half. 

875
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,160
Now, if you have a minor child 
like you do, now, you have a 

876
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:26,520
minor child who is owner of her 
house. 

877
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,920
So if we want to change that, we
want your wife to own it, you're

878
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,600
actually going to have to buy 
them out, maybe refinance it. 

879
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,560
There's going to be a guardian 
at litem appointed by the court 

880
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,640
to look over that child's 
interest because he or she 

881
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:40,400
doesn't have, you know, the 
capacity to make their own 

882
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,400
decisions. 
They're not an adult. 

883
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,680
That could be really messy. 
So even there, even a basic will

884
00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,000
on that example would have 
helped because most likely you 

885
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,000
would say everything goes to my 
spouse or that means the house 

886
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,720
goes to my spouse first. 
Whatever the case is, we would 

887
00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:56,880
avoid that situation. 
So stories like that happen 

888
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,600
every day, you know, and it gets
more complicated. 

889
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,400
The more stuff you have, the 
more complicated your situation 

890
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,600
is. 
Owning a business, right? 

891
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,440
I have an LLC or an S Corp who 
has the right to continue 

892
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:10,720
operating that or even just to 
wind it down and collect the 

893
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,640
outstanding. 
Payments and whatnot. 

894
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,320
I was actually thinking about 
that the other day. 

895
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,680
I'm like, what would happen if I
got hit by a bus or something? 

896
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,040
Like who is gonna make do 
payroll? 

897
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,920
And yeah, what's gonna happen to
the money in the accounts and. 

898
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,960
Those are valid concerns to my. 
Employees like, you know, my 

899
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,240
first thoughts to my employees 
and then my second thought is to

900
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:31,400
the work that we have already 
gotten paid to do for, you know,

901
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,680
like what? 
How does it all shake out? 

902
00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:34,480
Right, who finishes those jobs? 
All the. 

903
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:37,440
And then if no one does, 
obviously problems arise. 

904
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,440
Who, who deals with those 
problems and who, Yeah, who's 

905
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:44,080
the onus on to for the financial
liability or the legal 

906
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:46,200
liability? 
Sure, and that can that could 

907
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:49,080
result in deaths against your 
estate, which means less goes to

908
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:52,360
your family a lot of times. 
I'm I'm broke feeling it then. 

909
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:53,240
Nothing there. 
OK. 

910
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:56,040
Yeah, that's fair enough. 
They're not getting anything. 

911
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,640
They might owe money, actually. 
But in a situation like that, so

912
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,560
I say I own a business, let's 
just use an LLC as an example 

913
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:04,760
of, you know, common business 
ownership entity. 

914
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:07,680
In a situation like that, I 
would advise the client to 

915
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,480
consider what we call a 
revocable trust. 

916
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,720
So a revocable trust is an 
entity I form. 

917
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,320
I can be the trustee. 
So while I'm alive, it's mostly 

918
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:17,800
a formality. 
I'm the trustee, I'm the sole 

919
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,640
beneficiary. 
So all my rights to any assets 

920
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:24,200
the revocable trust owns are the
same as if I was the individual 

921
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,720
owner. 
It has no negative tax 

922
00:41:25,720 --> 00:41:28,760
consequence. 
If I want to sell the business, 

923
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:32,120
buy another business, whatever 
the case is, I can do all those 

924
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,680
things. 
But we make the trust the owner 

925
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,560
of the corporate entity. 
So right, we assign the 

926
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:41,480
corporate entity to that trust. 
Again, you're the primary 

927
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:42,520
trustee. 
As long as you're alive and 

928
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,400
well, you're, you're doing your 
thing, nothing changes. 

929
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,960
But we're going to have a backup
trustee and we're also going to 

930
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,640
have a distribution structure of
trust owned assets. 

931
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,720
The day you pass away, something
happened to you, that backup 

932
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:56,440
trustee can take over 
immediately and continue running

933
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,480
the business, collecting the the
payables, winding it down if 

934
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,240
necessary, if it was not in 
place. 

935
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:04,640
And if you have a just a will or
if you don't have a will, 

936
00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:06,040
they're going to have to go 
through a formal court 

937
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:10,960
proceeding called probate, which
that full process takes at least

938
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,640
a year in New York. 
And the person whose name is 

939
00:42:13,640 --> 00:42:16,640
your executor or what not likely
can't start acting until a few 

940
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:19,480
months because of the court has 
to process paperwork and whatnot

941
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,680
before they're officially 
appointed as the executor. 

942
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,960
So that could be a huge delay in
in a business. 

943
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,840
Just a few months. 
Right. 

944
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:30,480
Yeah, I mean. 
I mean, and it's New York, so, 

945
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,360
and it's New York. 
I think you're being generous of

946
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,200
the. 
Probably depends on the county, 

947
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,440
but, you know, but those are 
considerations we look at. 

948
00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:40,240
So when I say that, you know, 
you said shouldn't everybody 

949
00:42:40,240 --> 00:42:41,520
have a trust? 
Not necessarily. 

950
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,760
But there are many, many 
situations where, yeah, trust 

951
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:48,640
would make a lot of sense. 
You have never been through 

952
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,920
probate yourself, right? 
For a long. 

953
00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:53,120
I have never known, luckily. 
Most people don't enjoy the 

954
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,560
experience, those who have been 
through it, because it's a 

955
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:59,120
formal court proceeding and 
there's expenses, it takes time,

956
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:03,000
there's delays, there's 
paperwork, and it's fairly easy 

957
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,880
to avoid for the most part, 
right? 

958
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:07,880
Financial accounts, if I have 
beneficiaries on those or joint 

959
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,280
owners and I die, that goes to 
those people automatically. 

960
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,840
That's outside of probate, my 
will, that doesn't control that.

961
00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:18,000
That's all automatic. 
You know, real estate's a bit 

962
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:19,000
different. 
That's a lot of times we're 

963
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:20,760
putting real estate or 
businesses into these trusts to 

964
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,840
avoid probate for those. 
But a lot of times that is 

965
00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,000
preferable for somebody when I, 
when I talk to them about, hey, 

966
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:28,600
this is what probate is. 
Do you want your family to go 

967
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,080
through it, or do you want to do
a little more work now, spend a 

968
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,040
little bit more money now to 
avoid it? 

969
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:35,040
And a lot of times the answer 
is, yeah, why? 

970
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,480
Why? 
Why wouldn't I want to avoid 

971
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:39,400
that, Right. 
So again, specific to the 

972
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,600
person, I'm not going to say 
that everyone needs a trust. 

973
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,400
That's simply not true. 
But it is a very useful tool we 

974
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:45,120
use. 
Yeah. 

975
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:47,720
Yeah, a lot of these things 
sound like very useful tools 

976
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:50,160
about things that you never 
would think about in a million. 

977
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,280
Years so, and that's one of my 
favorite parts of being an 

978
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,440
attorney in this, in this area 
of law is it's such practical 

979
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,360
information that everybody 
needs, right? 

980
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,120
It's not obscure maritime law 
and stuff like that. 

981
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:03,360
Like, I talk to anybody and I 
have information that could be 

982
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:04,720
useful. 
Yeah, and that's nice. 

983
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:08,720
I know that we're getting short 
on time, but I, I one of the 

984
00:44:08,720 --> 00:44:11,720
questions I had as you were 
talking is what, what do people 

985
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:15,360
that are like, let's just say 
it's just like, I got no kids, 

986
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,440
no living family. 
I own a business I own, I have 

987
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,560
assets like what? 
What do those? 

988
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,320
People do. 
That's a great question. 

989
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,600
I'm going to give you extreme. 
You're welcome, because I'm 

990
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:29,280
going to give you probably my 
most extreme example of a 

991
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:32,960
scenario like that, right. 
So this is back when I was 

992
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:37,360
practicing on Long Island. 
A woman came to me and said my 

993
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,160
best friend just died and she 
had a will. 

994
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:43,960
The will said everything that 
that this best that deceased 

995
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:45,600
person owns goes to her best 
friend. 

996
00:44:45,720 --> 00:44:48,880
She had no family to speak of, 
parents were deceased, never 

997
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:52,920
married, no kids, no siblings. 
Even so, the will said 

998
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,720
everything goes to my best 
friend and my best friend is the

999
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:57,240
executor. 
And the friend assumed, hey, she

1000
00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:00,240
had that will. 
I'm just going to bring it to 

1001
00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,560
the bank and sell the house and 
do what I got to do. 

1002
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:05,240
So in that scenario, we have, we
have to go through probate, 

1003
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:06,360
right? 
So before she can start acting 

1004
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:08,920
as the executor, she has to have
that will probated by the court 

1005
00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:10,360
and just to be formally 
appointed. 

1006
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:13,680
But guess what? 
One of the first steps for the 

1007
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:17,200
court to accept the will and 
appoint her is that we have to 

1008
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:21,800
find the class of closest living
heirs that would inherit if a 

1009
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,080
will didn't exist. 
So if a will doesn't exist in 

1010
00:45:24,080 --> 00:45:26,960
New York, there's something 
called the law of intestacy and 

1011
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:30,640
that says when there's no will, 
these are the people who would 

1012
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:33,160
inherit. 
And it goes to find the class of

1013
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:37,360
closest living heirs. 
So if I have a spouse and kids, 

1014
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:39,880
it's my spouse and kids. 
If I don't have a spouse or 

1015
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,840
kids, it's my parents. 
If I don't have parents, if my 

1016
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,480
it's my siblings or the children
of priests, deceased siblings. 

1017
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,040
So as you can see, it keeps 
getting broader and broader in 

1018
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,960
scope. 
So in this example, this, this 

1019
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,840
woman's closest living relatives
were first cousins once removed.

1020
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,800
If I remember correctly, she had
about 25 of them. 

1021
00:45:56,320 --> 00:46:03,240
They were located in England, 
Thailand, Italy, Spain, like 

1022
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:07,920
literally all over the world. 
When I asked the the friend 

1023
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:10,120
who's the executor and the 
beneficiary that will you know, 

1024
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,400
who is your closest living 
family, she's like I had, she 

1025
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,440
had no family. 
I have no idea. 

1026
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,080
I couldn't even begin to tell 
you. 

1027
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:18,640
So we had to hire a private 
investigator. 

1028
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:22,640
We had to hire a genealogist. 
This whole process took I think 

1029
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,200
like 2 years to even locate 
everybody. 

1030
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,120
Then we had to send them notices
to sign waivers saying they're 

1031
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,080
not contesting. 
Some of them wouldn't sign 

1032
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,640
waivers. 
So when all is said and done, 

1033
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:36,920
you know, three to four years in
and you know, couple $100,000 in

1034
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,320
in fees and whatnot later 
between all this stuff, finally 

1035
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:42,600
get the person appointed as the 
executor and there was like 

1036
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:44,680
nothing left to even distribute 
at that point. 

1037
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:46,160
That's terrible. 
How awful is that? 

1038
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,160
And you think in that woman's 
mind when she did the will, 

1039
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,520
she's probably like, I'm doing 
the right thing by my friend. 

1040
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,280
She's the closest person to me. 
She's going to get what I have 

1041
00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:57,080
when I die. 
Not realizing she just put her 

1042
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:59,320
friend into a nightmare scenario
that she really didn't even 

1043
00:46:59,560 --> 00:47:01,440
benefit from much. 
And the system just chewed it 

1044
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,320
all up. 
Shoot it up. 

1045
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,280
And you know those laws are 
there for good purpose, right? 

1046
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,840
So as you can imagine, surprise,
surprise, people take advantage 

1047
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:10,160
of other people as they get 
older. 

1048
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:15,440
So if, if my mom or my dad was 
older and they met a, you know, 

1049
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:18,880
person who was younger who 
decided to take advantage of 

1050
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,920
them and they all of a sudden 
they did a new will I, I do want

1051
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,960
to have a chance to contest that
because maybe they were taken 

1052
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:25,440
advantage of. 
And that's where the law is the 

1053
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,120
way it is and it has it right. 
But often times it's more of an 

1054
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,880
inconvenience because people 
don't realize hey like I I don't

1055
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,360
even know who my first cousins 
once removed are if you ask me. 

1056
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,480
Yeah, in that scenario, she 
probably never even knew those 

1057
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:37,280
people. 
Existing. 

1058
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,160
I don't think any of them knew 
who they were even receiving a 

1059
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:41,520
notice about. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1060
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:42,960
So. 
Wild. 

1061
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,520
That's a very extreme example, 
but it's a good illustration of 

1062
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:47,160
how it could get really messy, 
yeah. 

1063
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:49,560
Yeah, so the moral of the story 
is. 

1064
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:51,880
Plan. 
Plan advanced planning. 

1065
00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,480
Plan now, but just as you go. 
Very important. 

1066
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,160
Sounds important. 
Yeah, you. 

1067
00:47:58,480 --> 00:47:59,800
Want to schedule your console? 
Normally, yeah. 

1068
00:48:00,120 --> 00:48:01,120
No. 
Get the calendar out. 

1069
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,120
If people want to learn more 
about you, about Herzog, about 

1070
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:07,160
the work that you do, where can 
they find you guys? 

1071
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:10,400
So we have a great website, 
herzoglaw.com. 

1072
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,320
You can call in for reader, free
consultations. 

1073
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,840
So free our consults if you 
come, even if it's a learning 

1074
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,600
experience, take advantage of 
it. 

1075
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:22,400
Phone numbers 518-465-7581. 
Come into any of our offices. 

1076
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:24,720
If for offices, like I 
mentioned, we can do a Zoom 

1077
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:27,960
call, we can do a phone call, 
whatever is convenient for you. 

1078
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:30,720
We try to make ourselves 
accessible so. 

1079
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,720
Yeah, let me also just commend 
you on knowing your phone 

1080
00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,200
number. 
I'm lucky. 

1081
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,080
So we do a radio show Saturday 
mornings. 

1082
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:41,160
Yeah, at 8:00 AM. 
Magic. 

1083
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:49,200
Damn it. 105.1 I think. 
OK, but I have to say it during 

1084
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:50,880
the radio show. 
So I have to practice all right 

1085
00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:52,560
A. 
Little bit of practice. 

1086
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:54,600
I don't even know my kids phone 
numbers right now. 

1087
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,040
With that, I couldn't tell you 
no. 

1088
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,360
I know, I know my wife's. 
Yeah, I know. 

1089
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,520
Maybe 3 phone numbers, Yeah. 
That's about it. 

1090
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,440
I can tell you all the phone 
numbers from when I was growing 

1091
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:03,760
up. 
I think I know like still some 

1092
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,360
of my friends phone numbers were
growing up. 

1093
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:09,640
I used to call all the time. 
Phil, thanks again for coming 

1094
00:49:09,640 --> 00:49:10,040
on. 
Appreciate. 

1095
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,800
You for having on my farm. 
Always a much better experience 

1096
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,200
than Zoom, so thank you very 
much and happy to be here. 

1097
00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,720
Thank you and the team for being
a community partner and helping 

1098
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,440
by buying local happen. 
Absolutely looking together, 

1099
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:21,960
working for a long time. 
Together. 

1100
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:23,000
Yes, Sir. 
Yes, Sir. 

1101
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,080
Thanks everybody for listening. 
Of course, you can find us on on

1102
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:30,160
the new rebranded website of 
buying local dot USI know that 

1103
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:33,280
you used to be able to find us 
on glensfallsreport.com and 

1104
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,160
Saratoga businessreport.com. 
If you're not in the know, we've

1105
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,040
recently brought it all under 1 
banner so we can distribute and 

1106
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:42,600
increase our exposure in Warren,
Washington and Saratoga counties

1107
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,400
place we call home. 
Thanks everybody for listening 

1108
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:46,880
and you'll hear from us next 
week.