1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,920
All right, well, welcome back 
everyone to Buying Local. 

2
00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,600
I'm your host, Mike Nelson from 
5 Towers Media, joined today by 

3
00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:09,520
an old friend. 
And I don't mean old like World 

4
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,120
Lisa. 
I mean, just we've known each 

5
00:00:11,120 --> 00:00:12,680
other for a long time. 
A long time. 

6
00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,920
Lisa Balcher, welcome to Buying 
Local. 

7
00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:20,160
Very excited to have you. 
Thank you. 

8
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,400
I'm excited to be here. 
Thanks for the invite today. 

9
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,800
I'm looking forward to it. 
Yeah, of course. 

10
00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,280
So Lisa, I, you know, I'm trying
to think I, I think we met 

11
00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:36,800
originally through was it B and 
I back in the 2008 to 10 range 

12
00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,680
maybe. 
I think we had met briefly 

13
00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:42,640
before that through something 
with the chamber and then really

14
00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:44,000
got to know each other through B
and I. 

15
00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,200
Through B and I, yeah, yeah, 
yeah, yeah. 

16
00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:49,120
Chamber tracks we've. 
I've always been a big fan of 

17
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,480
the chamber, especially the 
Adirotinac Regional Chamber. 

18
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:53,440
Unsolicited. 
That would be the one. 

19
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,440
Yeah, yeah, I've, it's always 
been a great chamber. 

20
00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,560
I really like it and enjoy it 
now under Tricia and her team. 

21
00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,720
But it's always been good. 
Met a lot of great people 

22
00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,120
through it. 
Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of 

23
00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:07,360
the chamber. 
I think they're doing amazing 

24
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,400
stuff and the growth in it has 
been great the last few years. 

25
00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,880
So excited to be a part of that.
Absolutely, absolutely. 

26
00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,640
And I, I unfortunately I've not 
been able to get to any of the 

27
00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,000
events the last few months, but 
I know he has. 

28
00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:25,280
That's how I. 
I met him, yeah. 

29
00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:27,880
Yeah. 
He gave me a great cold call 

30
00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:30,400
when he started working for you.
He just called me up and we had 

31
00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,840
a nice chat and then we've had 
lunch and he's gonna. 

32
00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,280
Do bad things? 
How did he do on the cold call? 

33
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,040
He was great. 
He was great. 

34
00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,280
I really like the way he did it.
He was like, look, I'm just 

35
00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,080
calling to connect, let you know
that we're here and he did a 

36
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:44,760
great job, so you're doing well 
with him. 

37
00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,400
I told him he couldn't have a 
better mentor in the business 

38
00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,280
than in. 
Well, you know, I'm trying, I'm 

39
00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,200
trying, but he's, he's a good, 
he's a good human all around. 

40
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,560
So I, I like Matt a lot and 
we're, we're lucky to have him 

41
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,400
So good. 
Glad to hear he's not. 

42
00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,320
You know, for the record, when I
was cold calling, I don't think 

43
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,120
that people said nice things 
about me after my cold calls. 

44
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:10,880
So I'm glad that Matt is doing a
lot better than I did. 

45
00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,440
You know, that's, that's the 
goal, right? 

46
00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,720
Do better than your teacher did.
Absolutely right. 

47
00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:16,400
Teach them to be better than we 
were. 

48
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,560
Absolutely. 
Absolutely. 

49
00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:22,440
That's great. 
So Lisa, I know God, what were 

50
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,960
you doing when I when we first 
met? 

51
00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,720
I don't was it? 
I was probably working at the 

52
00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:32,200
accounting firm or the bank when
we first met one of the two. 

53
00:02:32,640 --> 00:02:36,440
Yeah, so long ago. 
My old man brain does not want 

54
00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:38,560
to recall. 
But irrelevant, right? 

55
00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:39,840
What? 
What are you doing now? 

56
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:41,600
Lisa, tell us. 
I I was excited to hear about 

57
00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,880
what you've got going on now. 
Yeah. 

58
00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:48,160
So back in May, I launched my 
own human resources consulting 

59
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,720
firm. 
I have branded it the HR Ninja. 

60
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,280
I have been in human resources 
for over 25 years and in many 

61
00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:58,800
ways with small business, with 
non profit supporting my 

62
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,760
husband's own small business and
also have been in the martial 

63
00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,800
arts world for over 30 years and
now own my own martial arts 

64
00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,200
school. 
So that's why I call it the HR 

65
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,800
Ninja. 
I do. 

66
00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:12,160
I do. 
I am actually registered in 

67
00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,240
Korea with the Mutaquan. 
I'm a six degree black belt in 

68
00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,920
Taekwondo and I have my own 
school chartered through them. 

69
00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:21,600
So I knew that you were Black 
Belt, and it was funny because 

70
00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,840
when Matt mentioned your name, I
was like, hey, you better be 

71
00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:25,680
careful with her, man. 
She'll kick your butt, dude. 

72
00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,720
Like, hey, we were laughing 
about that, but I didn't realize

73
00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,600
that you had your own school 
too, so that's exciting. 

74
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,240
Yeah, it's very small. 
I don't do a lot of advertising 

75
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,640
'cause I don't have any other 
instructors, so it's all me. 

76
00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,400
But I've got about 10 consistent
students. 

77
00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,280
I'll have one testing for black 
belt by the first of the year. 

78
00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:45,640
She'll be my first process black
belt through the school and I'm 

79
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,520
excited for her. 
Nice, nice. 

80
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,120
Yeah, I know we want, I know we 
want to talk about HR, but like,

81
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,040
you know, obviously I really 
like the martial arts world. 

82
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,640
How long does it take to get a 
black belt in Taekwondo? 

83
00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,680
If you are super committed, you 
can do it in three years. 

84
00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,960
Three years and that's doing 
like what, like 5 classes a 

85
00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,720
week? 
Now, 2 to three classes a week, 

86
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,560
you can be there in three years 
if you're super committed and 

87
00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:10,720
you're willing to practice 
outside of the room. 

88
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,160
You can't just be those couple 
of nights a week. 

89
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:16,279
So, and this particular student,
she's highly committed, she's 

90
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:17,640
doing great. 
She's gonna be amazing. 

91
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,800
That's awesome. 
Very cool. 

92
00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,079
Yeah. 
Well, congratulations on your 

93
00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:23,640
first graduated black belt. 
That's. 

94
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:25,240
That's thank you. 
Thank you. 

95
00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,760
It's kind of a. 
Yeah, it's kind of cool that 

96
00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,760
it's a woman too, that it's a 
woman owns school and it's a 

97
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,760
woman that's going to be the 
first black belt so. 

98
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,040
Yeah, are are, do you find that 
most of your students are women 

99
00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,800
at your school or is it a mix? 
We are heavier on the female 

100
00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:44,480
side right now than the male, 
but it in the beginning it was 

101
00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:46,160
more male and then it balanced 
out. 

102
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,280
It just happens to be more 
female right now. 

103
00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,720
Not intentional, it's just the 
way it's worked out the. 

104
00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,000
Way it happens, yeah, yeah, 
yeah, that's awesome. 

105
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,880
So I guess we know where the 
ninja part comes in for HR Ninja

106
00:04:56,880 --> 00:05:03,160
then. 
So, so help me understand and 

107
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,240
our listeners understand, you 
know, as a, for the kind of 

108
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,320
service offerings that you do, 
do you act as like just an 

109
00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,640
advisor or are you an HR or like
an outsourced HR department? 

110
00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:16,240
What kind of things are you 
doing for for your folks? 

111
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,280
Yeah, it's a great question. 
It could be either or. 

112
00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,720
So some of my clients call me, 
they have a situation, they just

113
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,560
need a sounding board. 
Maybe they have an HR person, 

114
00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,200
but they're not quite as 
experienced. 

115
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,560
And so they just need somebody 
to say yes, you're on the right 

116
00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:32,200
track, you're doing the right 
thing. 

117
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:34,000
Let's talk through what next 
steps are. 

118
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,440
Other clients need projects 
done. 

119
00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,080
So for instance, maybe they're 
switching payroll providers. 

120
00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:43,440
They don't have the time and the
ability to really make that 

121
00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,320
happen well and flow through. 
And I've done that many times in

122
00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,640
my career. 
And so I work with old payroll 

123
00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,240
provider, new payroll provider, 
plus client to seamlessly make a

124
00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,760
project happen. 
Or somebody has no HR and they 

125
00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,400
can't afford a full HR person on
team. 

126
00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,000
Or maybe they don't need a full 
40 hours a week. 

127
00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,960
And so fractionally, I can go in
so many hours a week or a month,

128
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,560
sit right in their office if 
necessary, and be their HR hat 

129
00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,400
for them and their employees to 
bridge that space that they 

130
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:17,240
need. 
So what does an HR person do? 

131
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,240
I, you know, obviously the, the 
hiring thing, right? 

132
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,760
Like people think AR and they 
think hiring, right? 

133
00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:25,320
But I know that there's a whole 
lot more that goes into it. 

134
00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,240
And I know probably most of us 
small business owners are not 

135
00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,240
doing all the things that we're 
supposed to be doing with 

136
00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,960
regards to HR. 
So help me understand all the 

137
00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:36,200
things I'm not doing that I 
should be doing, Lisa. 

138
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,240
Sure, I'll try not to call out 
anything out here on you, Mike. 

139
00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,520
Don't want to get in trouble. 
The the reality is what you just

140
00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:46,080
said, though. 
You're so busy starting and 

141
00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,280
running a small business and 
you're an entrepreneur with a 

142
00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:51,720
vision and a dream and you're 
chasing it, but you don't know 

143
00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,720
all the little side pieces that 
go with that. 

144
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:55,840
And you know you need a lawyer 
and you know you need this coach

145
00:06:55,840 --> 00:06:58,280
and you know you need that, but 
you don't think about HR because

146
00:06:58,280 --> 00:06:59,880
you think you're doing it. 
It's just people. 

147
00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,960
HR is more about hiring and 
firing. 

148
00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:05,960
It's about if you're going to 
offer benefits, what's the way, 

149
00:07:05,960 --> 00:07:08,480
best way to offer that and what 
do your people really want. 

150
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,440
If you're going to have 
conversations with your team and

151
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:14,440
truly teach them to be a team 
and what your culture is and how

152
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,720
you want to run your team, it's 
those conversations. 

153
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,920
It's open enrollments, it's 
keeping you compliant. 

154
00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:24,800
Just knowing that in New York 
State, there are so many small 

155
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,080
rules that even a small business
of under 10 has to follow. 

156
00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,000
As simple as are you notifying 
people in writing when their 

157
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:33,240
wages are going up or down For 
some reason? 

158
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:36,160
We have a lot of small 
businesses in the area that are 

159
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,040
seasonal. 
In one season they get paid one 

160
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:39,840
rate and another season they get
paid another. 

161
00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:44,360
Are you making sure you're in 
writing, telling your folks what

162
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:46,960
their rates going to change and 
when and what that looks like? 

163
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,000
So a lot of compliance is in HR 
that people don't think about. 

164
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,400
We help look at insurance. 
What do you have for insurance? 

165
00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:59,120
Not just health insurance, 
dental, but actual insurance on 

166
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:01,560
your business. 
I had an insurance license at 

167
00:08:01,560 --> 00:08:03,120
one point. 
I have an accounting degree. 

168
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:04,600
I've worked in the accounting 
world. 

169
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,480
I've got some operations 
experience, so I can come in and

170
00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,880
look at the whole and help you 
figure out what's missing on the

171
00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,280
HR side. 
So we we process a lot of 

172
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:15,280
paperwork, rewrite a lot of 
policies. 

173
00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,840
We Polish your handbooks, but 
there's a lot of training, 

174
00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:21,000
there's a lot of communication 
we can do. 

175
00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,360
And so if somebody has a small 
business and they can't afford 

176
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,960
an HR person, but they want me a
few hours a week, I can be the 

177
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:29,360
person your employee comes to 
and says, I don't understand how

178
00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:32,039
my paid time off works. 
I don't understand how paid 

179
00:08:32,039 --> 00:08:35,000
family leave works. 
I don't know what I need to do 

180
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,320
to grow here. 
I don't understand how our 

181
00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:40,840
annual review process works. 
I can be that person that has 

182
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:43,600
the time to really listen and 
have those conversations. 

183
00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:50,240
What do you find, or I should 
say, who do you find that you 

184
00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:53,920
work the most with right now 
from like a size and scale of 

185
00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,720
business? 
Typically 50 and under for the 

186
00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,120
employee size. 
They tend to have an HR of one 

187
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,360
or an HR of none. 
And they have ACFO wearing 6 

188
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,320
hats trying to keep it all in 
the air. 

189
00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,960
And they're much more proactive 
or reactive than proactive. 

190
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,920
Where I can come in with fresh 
eyes and say if we tweak a few 

191
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,560
things here, put a couple extra 
things in place, this becomes 

192
00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:19,200
easier and more efficient. 
I love working in the blue 

193
00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,480
collar space. 
My husband owns his own 

194
00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,800
construction business. 
I love those guys because that's

195
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,120
where you can have the most 
open, honest conversations with 

196
00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,840
a human being because they tell 
you how it is and they're not 

197
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,360
afraid to tell you how it is and
they lay it out for you. 

198
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,720
Mike, you've been there. 
And you know, those are some of 

199
00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,640
my favorites. 
But I also like the office 

200
00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,560
environment because 
professionals want to come to 

201
00:09:40,560 --> 00:09:42,720
work and be seen and talked to 
in a certain way. 

202
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,720
And especially the generation 
coming in. 

203
00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:48,120
People keep saying the young 
generation doesn't want to work.

204
00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:49,640
It's not true. 
They want to be treated a 

205
00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,200
certain way at your 
organization. 

206
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:54,880
So how do we bring them in to 
understand what work really is, 

207
00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:57,800
but help them help us with our 
culture, to make our culture 

208
00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,000
better as they come in? 
Yeah. 

209
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,320
Do you do you find that culture 
is a lot of how you're working 

210
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,360
with organizations? 
Sometimes, yes, sometimes they 

211
00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,880
come to me first and it's more 
about we need a handbook, we 

212
00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:12,920
need a policy. 
There's this new rule out we 

213
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,080
need help navigating, but it 
turns into a culture 

214
00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,560
conversation. 
So a good example is I did a 

215
00:10:19,560 --> 00:10:22,560
handbook for a woman who has a 
small financial advisory firm. 

216
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:26,520
She now hired her second person.
She said, I want to make sure 

217
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:29,000
that my employees know what's 
available to them. 

218
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:31,960
I want to have this handbook as 
a guide book, she said. 

219
00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:35,000
But I'm afraid when I present 
it, they're going to think that 

220
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,320
I'm just giving them rules and 
they're doing things wrong. 

221
00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:38,640
She was. 
So I don't know how to present 

222
00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:42,200
this, he said this is our 
opportunity to explain to them. 

223
00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,200
I want you to have a place to go
that gives you the guidelines 

224
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,480
for how we work. 
I want you to understand the 

225
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,920
benefits you have so you can use
them to the best. 

226
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,320
And I want our culture to feel 
like you're getting what you 

227
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:54,600
need. 
And if you don't, you know how 

228
00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:58,160
to come talk to me. 
I want our culture to be that I 

229
00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:01,320
truly support employees 1st and 
I don't want to have to worry 

230
00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:03,520
about understanding what they 
get. 

231
00:11:03,720 --> 00:11:07,000
And so put it in writing and 
gave her all the talking points 

232
00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,560
to sit with her staff. 
And she's creating culture from 

233
00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:13,640
the beginning by letting them 
know these policies are in place

234
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:17,440
to support you, to give you the 
expectations and the milestones.

235
00:11:17,440 --> 00:11:19,600
And I want to be there to walk 
this journey with you. 

236
00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,640
Lisa, how do you handle 
organizations? 

237
00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:28,440
And I know it's typically, 
excuse me, typically smaller 

238
00:11:28,440 --> 00:11:32,680
organizations, family owned 
businesses that, you know, quote

239
00:11:32,680 --> 00:11:35,600
UN quote, don't want to be 
corporate and they don't want 

240
00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,160
to, you know, seem like there's 
some sort of corporation and 

241
00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,600
they don't want to lose that 
family feel, but they still need

242
00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,360
some of these things. 
Like how do you address that 

243
00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:49,400
concern I guess? 
A lot of small businesses feel 

244
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:52,120
that way and it's funny. 
People will go, we're a family 

245
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,520
here and you are and you aren't,
right? 

246
00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,240
You're a family to a point, 
especially if you employ family 

247
00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,320
and you're family owned. 
But you still have to, at the 

248
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,920
end of the day, remember these 
are employees that you're paying

249
00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,960
and you have expectations for. 
You can marry those two things. 

250
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:10,760
You can give your employees 
everything under the sun, but 

251
00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:14,280
you also still have to have 
expectations set around what 

252
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,360
they have to give in return. 
So when you have those honest 

253
00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,440
conversations right from the 
beginning, from the minute they 

254
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:23,560
walk through the door and they 
start working with you, honest 

255
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:25,720
conversations are people hitting
their mark? 

256
00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,000
Are they working the way we 
hope? 

257
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,600
Are they working the way we 
expect? 

258
00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:30,760
How do we want them to treat our
customers? 

259
00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,360
How do we want them to treat 
each other? 

260
00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,720
We can set that from the 
beginning and build that and 

261
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,600
still give them everything we 
want and create that family 

262
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,720
feel, but still know they have 
to meet expectations. 

263
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,280
At the end of the day. 
People don't like open, honest 

264
00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,520
conversations, but the best 
conversations we have ever in 

265
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,400
life are the hardest ones. 
When we open our heart and talk 

266
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,280
about the reality of what we all
need. 

267
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,400
And when you can do that for the
employee, they then in return 

268
00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,560
know they're safe to come have a
conversation with you. 

269
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,440
They're not worried about 
getting fired if they need a day

270
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,040
off for a kid problem. 
They're not worried about. 

271
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,360
Can I really have a conversation
about I've stepped up to the 

272
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:12,280
plate, but I need more money If 
that is set up front from the 

273
00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,560
very first few conversations 
when they come in, we are like 

274
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:17,360
family here, but we have 
expectations. 

275
00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,520
We have to meet. 
Then those conversations can be 

276
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,320
had and that comfort level can 
be there. 

277
00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:31,200
It's interesting I it's you 
know, we live in such AI don't 

278
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:35,800
want to say just like a policy 
driven world. 

279
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,400
I feel like right now, right 
with business, especially when 

280
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,040
it comes to the HR component, 
there's so many requirements. 

281
00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,560
You know, there's the sexual 
harassment training that you 

282
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,800
have to do with every employee 
every year. 

283
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,280
There's, I know they kicked 
around this whole retirement 

284
00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:54,200
thing that you had to provide if
you have more than 8 employees. 

285
00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,400
Did they ever actually put that 
into place? 

286
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,800
That that is rolling out for 
2026. 

287
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,760
If you have 10 or more 
employees, you either have to 

288
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,040
enroll them in some sort of plan
or you have to prove you already

289
00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:11,000
have a plan available to them. 
So yes, that is coming out it. 

290
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,520
It's a great provision because 
there's so many people that 

291
00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,400
don't have retirement. 
Employers do not have to put 

292
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,520
money into this particular 
system if they enroll through 

293
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,200
the state. 
So it's giving people an option 

294
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,720
for retirement they don't have. 
What's hard is sometimes the 

295
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,880
implementation is very difficult
for an employer, so they need 

296
00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,280
somebody to walk them through 
how to make that happen. 

297
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:37,440
So yeah, that is one of them. 
When they came out with required

298
00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:40,880
paid sick time, that one's hard 
to administer and understand 

299
00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:42,240
that. 
Luckily a lot of the payroll 

300
00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:44,600
companies embraced it and 
they're running it well to make 

301
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,280
sure it's being done, which is 
great. 

302
00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,720
But then there's paid family 
leave, which most small 

303
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,440
companies don't understand how 
it works and their employees 

304
00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,600
don't understand how it works 
and that it's offered. 

305
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,360
But their employees are paying a
small amount every week for this

306
00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:02,040
insurance program that they 
don't even know they have, and 

307
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,400
they don't know they can use it.
Yeah, there, there's a lot out 

308
00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,520
there that gets put in place. 
It's very difficult. 

309
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,400
Yeah, it's, it's kind of tough 
to keep track of it sometimes. 

310
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:15,040
As far as the thing like that 
four O 1K retirement plan thing,

311
00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:16,680
it was like, you know, I think 
they rolled it. 

312
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,840
They first talked about rolling 
it out in 2022 I think, or maybe

313
00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:22,520
it was a while. 
Ago. 

314
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,000
Yeah, yeah, it was a while. 
Yeah. 

315
00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,840
And then it was like, you know, 
they kept waffling and changing 

316
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,360
and, you know, one of the very 
smooth roll outs for these new 

317
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,080
policies. 
But yeah, it's a lot. 

318
00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,640
And, you know, not that running 
a small business isn't enough 

319
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:39,960
already without having to keep 
track of all that stuff. 

320
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,480
So now do you, do you work with 
organizations that kind of like 

321
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,240
track that make sure it's 
happening, make sure they're, 

322
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,040
you know, if they if they have 
to have it, that they're doing 

323
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,200
it and that kind of work or. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

324
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:55,280
If they're unsure of what they 
need to be following and what 

325
00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,200
they need to be doing, or even 
if they're doing with their 

326
00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:00,160
payroll company but they're 
confused on what it is, I am 

327
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,040
happy to come in and help get 
all that organized and 

328
00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,480
understood. 
Help them look at their options 

329
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,440
and see what they need to do. 
And you mentioned payroll 

330
00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:13,120
companies. 
I know, you know, we use ADP 

331
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:16,960
through Caitlin Rositano, and 
that's been great because it 

332
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,320
tracks, you know, like for the 
sick time anyway, it tracks the 

333
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,120
sick time as we go through, 
which is nice. 

334
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,120
I don't know if it tracks the 
families. 

335
00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,840
It's. 
Probably taking the deduction 

336
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,840
out for the paid family leave 
but it's not explaining to them 

337
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,240
what it is. 
There's a great New York website

338
00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,200
and your insurance provider 
usually offers information on 

339
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:42,520
that as well. 
And one of my favourites was 

340
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:45,160
Shelter Point and an 
organization I worked at. 

341
00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,480
We used Shelter Point and they 
have a wonderful website to walk

342
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,480
employer and employee how paid 
family leave works, which is 

343
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,760
great, but it's not something 
your payroll provider's gonna 

344
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,440
help you track and deal with. 
That's not one of their 

345
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,080
specialties, right? 
So that's where I can come in 

346
00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,960
and help you with those leaves, 
figure out leave for everybody. 

347
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,960
And and what is family leave? 
I'm like this is wild to me. 

348
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,079
I don't even know what it is. 
I should probably know this. 

349
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,160
That's a great question. 
There's two different types of 

350
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,280
family leave. 
So there's a federal called 

351
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,760
family. 
I'm not gonna, I'm gonna forget 

352
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:21,760
what exactly it stands for. 
It's FMLA. 

353
00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,400
I'm going to throw it with the 
letter state for just because 

354
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:29,080
you specifically asked me, but 
the federal side is FM LA. 

355
00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:33,000
FM LA only applies to employers 
with 50 or more employers. 

356
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,000
And it's not a paid leave. 
It's an unpaid leave available 

357
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:42,520
for up to 12 weeks based on 
certain needs for health 

358
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,280
concerns or disabilities, and 
you work with your doctor to get

359
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,360
approved. 
And it can be taken 

360
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:49,640
intermittently, all at once, 
whatever it's needed. 

361
00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,560
But that's an unpaid for larger 
corporations and that's federal.

362
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,360
What came out through New York 
State and it was pre COVID. 

363
00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:02,120
So I'm going to say maybe 1718 
was paid family leave through 

364
00:18:02,120 --> 00:18:04,720
New York State. 
It'll cover a few different 

365
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,600
things. 
It'll cover the birth or 

366
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,760
adoption of a child, taking care
of a sick family member. 

367
00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,560
There's something in there for 
leave for if your spouse goes 

368
00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:19,280
into the military. 
There's one other than I'm 

369
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,280
forgetting now. 
But anyway, there's four things 

370
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,120
that we'll cover. 
The one we see the most is care 

371
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,960
for a family member and or care 
for a newborn. 

372
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,720
That allows paid leave up to 12 
weeks. 

373
00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:34,480
You can take it intermittently, 
but it has to be in a full day 

374
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:39,360
or you can take it all at once. 
Right now it's paid at 67% of 

375
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,880
your paycheck. 
It is deducted. 

376
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,320
There's a small deduction out of
your paycheck every week that's 

377
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:46,680
going to help pay for that 
insurance policy, which your 

378
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,040
employer is also paying a 
portion of, typically through 

379
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,920
the same provider that you're 
buying your disability insurance

380
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:57,040
for. 
So it goes side by side and paid

381
00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,240
family leave is in place to pay 
you when you need to take that 

382
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:04,680
time off from work and the 
employer has to provide you work

383
00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,080
when you are back. 
I've seen most people take it on

384
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,400
an intermittent basis, not all 
at once, and it's really nice 

385
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,200
that they can do that way. 
So for instance, if you're a new

386
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,840
parent, you can take every 
Friday off or every Thursday and

387
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,160
Friday off for within the first 
year of that baby's birth up to 

388
00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,400
12 weeks of time, which is 
beautiful 'cause you can slowly 

389
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,640
come back to work plus do some 
of your own child care and not 

390
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,280
just through your child into 
child care. 

391
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,760
So paid family leave is a 
beautiful law they came out 

392
00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:33,760
with. 
It can be very hard to 

393
00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,840
understand when it's used, how 
it's used, how to put the 

394
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,800
paperwork together, which is 
where the employee and the 

395
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,800
employer sometimes stumble and 
need help. 

396
00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:44,640
And I can help with that stuff. 
Yeah, OK. 

397
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,880
I mean, yeah, obviously I'm 
stumbling. 

398
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:49,640
I didn't even know that it was a
thing so. 

399
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,280
I can help you. 
And I know, and I'm obviously 

400
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:55,960
paying for it, it sounds like 
so. 

401
00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:01,720
You are. 
What other kinds of things do 

402
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,680
you see out there, Lisa, that 
you know, small businesses or 

403
00:20:04,680 --> 00:20:08,320
even larger sized businesses are
probably not doing that they 

404
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,680
should be doing? 
Oh, that's great there. 

405
00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,840
There's so many things, Mike. 
I think sometimes we are 

406
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,760
assuming what our employees want
and not really asking them. 

407
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,760
And I've been in this scenario 
where as a team leader you're 

408
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,360
thinking, this is what my people
need. 

409
00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,720
I know what we need to bring in.
Let's plan this training. 

410
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,760
Let's plan this benefit. 
Let's bring it in. 

411
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:31,920
And they're like, yeah, that 
fell flat. 

412
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,800
That wasn't what we needed. 
And so it's how do we get the 

413
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,440
information out of employees? 
Because lots of times employees 

414
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,680
are afraid to tell us what they 
think, even though we're truly 

415
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,400
want to know. 
They're afraid that it's going 

416
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,240
to get them in trouble or create
a problem. 

417
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,520
So I think one of the biggest 
things I see is just true 

418
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,800
communication out there between 
employees and employers, and how

419
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,680
do we have open, honest 
conversations where everybody's 

420
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,640
in a safe space? 
I've done it by just going out 

421
00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:00,200
and looking for employees and 
having conversations with them 

422
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,200
and building that trust in that 
relationship so when the time 

423
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,200
comes, they know they can come 
to me. 

424
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,120
But the big thing we have in our
hands these days are surveys and

425
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:11,120
putting information out to 
employees. 

426
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,600
Sometimes we're giving amazing 
things like we just talked about

427
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:16,920
paid family leave. 
They don't understand they have 

428
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,880
it or how to use it. 
So most of the time when we 

429
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,440
implement a policy, when we 
create a new benefit, when we 

430
00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:27,400
bring in a change of some sort, 
it's not about what we've 

431
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,720
brought in or haven't brought 
in. 

432
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,960
It's how we're communicating 
with employees and how do we 

433
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:35,160
break down that barrier and have
real conversations and honest 

434
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,120
conversations and train our 
leaders to have those 

435
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:40,200
conversations. 
So many people are put into 

436
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,200
leadership positions and they're
not giving the tools to succeed,

437
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,400
to have these conversations, to 
be that bridge. 

438
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:49,720
I think that's really at the end
of the day, every problem or 

439
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,680
situation that's brought to me 
comes down to communication and 

440
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,720
how we're talking about things. 
So if you come to me and tell me

441
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,800
I got all these employee issues,
well, why? 

442
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,640
Well, it it comes down to what 
are the meetings you're having? 

443
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,080
What are the communication 
you're having? 

444
00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:03,760
People aren't using the 
benefits. 

445
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,360
I don't understand why they 
don't understand what the 

446
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:08,400
benefits are. 
So how do we train them better? 

447
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,200
How do we have better 
conversations? 

448
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,880
It just really at the end of the
day, it comes down to those 

449
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,600
relationships. 
You know, as you're talking 

450
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:21,720
about that, I, it makes me think
about, you know, my current 

451
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:23,680
state of our company. 
You know, we're small business, 

452
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,600
half a dozen employees and every
one of my employees is out 

453
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,560
straight. 
I'm out straight as the business

454
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,760
owner. 
We're all wearing multiple hats.

455
00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:36,640
And even though we're trying to 
simplify some of our product 

456
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,920
offerings to make things a 
little easier on us and on our 

457
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:43,600
clients and do a better job on 
everything, right? 

458
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,160
You know, one of the challenges 
is, you know, we, we have a 

459
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,560
weekly meeting on the calendar 
every week. 

460
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,080
Typically I'm the one that 
cancels that meeting because 

461
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,040
there's so much happening and 
they, you know, pulling 

462
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,320
everybody into a meeting for an 
hour to 90 minutes is I know 

463
00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,760
every one of them's like I'm so 
busy. 

464
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:04,080
I don't want to go to this 
meeting. 

465
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,320
And I have that same feeling 
like, but it's a, it is a good 

466
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,720
place where we're able to 
communicate with each other and,

467
00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,280
and have conversations that we 
might not be able to have. 

468
00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,280
Do you, I mean, other than just 
gutting it out and doing the 

469
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,560
meeting, like do you have any 
kind of advice for how 

470
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,800
organizations that are small 
like mine can communicate on a 

471
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,520
more efficient basis without 
having to suck everybody's week 

472
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:32,760
away with meetings? 
I think there's a time for a 

473
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:35,720
meeting, there's a time for an 
e-mail, there's a time for a 

474
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:40,360
phone call, there's a TAC time 
for whether it's Slack or Teams,

475
00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:43,520
constant conversation. 
That can work, right? 

476
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,360
So do I need to talk to you 
immediately? 

477
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,960
It's probably a phone call or a 
text to say, hey, can you talk? 

478
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:52,960
Do I just need an answer By the 
end of the day? 

479
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,200
Maybe I know you check Teams 
more than you look at e-mail. 

480
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,720
So I send you a Teams message. 
Do I need the whole team to know

481
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,080
or do I need one person to know?
What I will say about team 

482
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,800
meetings is if you as the leader
continually cancel, you're 

483
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,280
setting the example that they're
not important. 

484
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,480
So if they feel you don't think 
they're important, they now 

485
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,880
don't think they're important. 
So they think they can easily be

486
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,280
like, Mike, I can't do this 
meeting. 

487
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:20,080
What is the purpose of your 
meeting? 

488
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,840
What do you really drill down 
and talk about and what do you 

489
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,200
take away from the meeting? 
If your meetings are just being 

490
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:29,360
together and talk about what 
we're doing for the week and 

491
00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:33,600
then we walk away, it's probably
not good use of all your time. 

492
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,120
That could be a slack, hey, 
here's where we're going to be. 

493
00:24:36,120 --> 00:24:40,280
This is my schedule this week. 
If your meetings are about I'm 

494
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,480
struggling with how do you 
support me? 

495
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,040
Is this meeting our end goals? 
Is this meeting what we what we 

496
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,760
said we wanted to meet for our 
goals for September, for the 

497
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:51,440
quarter, for the year. 
Then those are meetings you need

498
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,600
to be having because that 
creativity that comes out, that 

499
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,600
conversation is very, very 
important to keep your 

500
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,520
organization running further. 
So I think you as a team have to

501
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,680
sit down and agree, What will 
our meetings be about? 

502
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,440
How will the agenda run? 
How long will it be, and how 

503
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,800
will we stick to our agenda and 
what we want to do? 

504
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,840
I can tell you I'm going to give
Wendy Waldron a plug. 

505
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,120
I'm sure you know Wendy. 
Yeah, yeah. 

506
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:20,040
With the EOS method, if you'll 
take nothing away from what 

507
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,120
Wendy teaches, that level 10 
agenda is one of the best things

508
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:26,120
I've ever seen implemented in a 
business. 

509
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,680
I would, I would recommend if 
you guys are struggling, look 

510
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,600
into that for sure. 
But you come together as a team 

511
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,120
and agree on what your meeting's
going to be and what you're 

512
00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:36,800
going to take away from it 
Because if you're having a 

513
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,640
meeting to have a meeting, it's 
pointless and don't have the 

514
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:41,960
meeting before the meeting to 
talk about the meeting and then 

515
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,120
the meeting after the meeting to
discuss the meeting. 

516
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,320
Then nobody wants that at the 
end of the day, right? 

517
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:51,840
And the other thing I would say 
is employers never want to hear 

518
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:55,160
this, but when was the last time
you looked at the size of your 

519
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:58,800
team, the responsibilities 
everybody had and said, do we 

520
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,560
have enough team members? 
And everybody will say to me, I 

521
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:04,040
can't afford another team 
member. 

522
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:07,120
Can you afford to lose 1 because
you're overworked and 

523
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:11,240
overwhelmed and they never feel 
like they get enough done? 

524
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,240
What will the revenue difference
be if you brought another team 

525
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:18,480
member to open up those other 
people's schedules to do more of

526
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:19,920
the things you really need them 
to do? 

527
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,480
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's one
of the bigger challenges I think

528
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:30,000
all small business owners face, 
right, is you hire someone. 

529
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,800
But I'm, I'm, it's more about 
fear than it is really about 

530
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:35,160
affordability, right? 
Like especially depending on 

531
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,880
what you do. 
You know, I just I just 

532
00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:40,880
interviewed Joe Cerrone. 
If you know Joe from over at 

533
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:45,040
Cerrone Plumbing and Heating, I 
interviewed him on our Blue 

534
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,240
Collar Startup podcast and we 
were talking specifically about 

535
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:49,680
scaling and growing your 
business. 

536
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:53,240
Because for people that don't 
know Joe or that business of 

537
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,120
where he's taking it in the last
10 years from really kind of 

538
00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,680
coming in to work with his dad 
and then taking the reins, he's 

539
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:02,720
done a fabulous job of growing 
that business. 

540
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,440
And, you know, I joked with him,
I'm like, from the outside, Joe,

541
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,920
it looks like it's been nice, 
slow, controlled growth, you 

542
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,400
know, very smooth. 
And he, he was like, yeah, it 

543
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:14,640
might seem that way on the 
surface, but, you know, one of 

544
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,040
the things he talked about that 
I really liked was when you're 

545
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,800
hiring people to try to, in the 
beginning at least start to hire

546
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,880
people that are going to be 
revenue generators and get so 

547
00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:28,480
that way, it makes it easier, 
right? 

548
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,160
Like you feel better about 
hiring someone that's going to 

549
00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,720
help you increase revenue than, 
say, hiring administrative staff

550
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,920
that are going to, you know, not
necessarily increase revenue 

551
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,600
directly. 
They may do it by taking things 

552
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,640
off your plate. 
But he said that that was 

553
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,880
helpful for him and that, you 
know, focusing on hiring like 

554
00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:51,920
service techs as an example that
he could put out there at a 

555
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,320
billable rate. 
He was like that. 

556
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,680
That was that was nice. 
But at some point, he still had 

557
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,200
to bite the bullet, right? 
And hire some administrative 

558
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,080
people that sooner or later you 
just got to do it. 

559
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,680
Yeah, it's a hard balance, but 
but I agree with what he's 

560
00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:10,160
saying is if you can bring in 
the billable money first, then 

561
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:12,440
you can feel a little more 
comfortable bringing in that 

562
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:15,520
admin person who's going to 
support the people out making 

563
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:17,880
the money. 
And it frees them them up for 

564
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,080
more admin so they can keep 
going and doing the thing right.

565
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,160
So I totally agree that's a 
great idea. 

566
00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,560
But yeah, eventually you have to
staff well or you will lose 

567
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,960
those staff members and and they
won't tell you. 

568
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,000
They'll just get so tired and so
burnt out that they'll just walk

569
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,680
in one day and be like, dude, 
I'm done. 

570
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,080
I can't do this anymore. 
And I've already got this other 

571
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,760
idea or opportunity and I'm out 
so. 

572
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,320
Yep, that's a tough one. 
I think we've all been there. 

573
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:48,160
Yeah. 
And you lose people lose good 

574
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,640
people that way sometimes. 
So it's, it's a challenge. 

575
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:52,200
Yeah. 
What? 

576
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,720
So outside of that of that side,
you know, obviously it's funny 

577
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:01,400
that you mentioned earlier too 
that like the CFO ends up having

578
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,160
to deal with, I don't know why 
we do that to CF OS, right? 

579
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,920
Like we always put the HR 
function under the CFO, which is

580
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,160
kind of laughable, right? 
Because a lot of great CF OS are

581
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,080
not at all people oriented. 
So like, you know, putting them 

582
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:20,560
into that HR role as well as 
always kind of funny, you know, 

583
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:25,120
obviously that's kind of like 
why you exist though, right? 

584
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,560
Is so that people that maybe 
they do have ACFO, maybe they 

585
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,480
don't, maybe they're doing the 
CFO stuff and the HR hat. 

586
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,080
So you're really that that 
outsourced solution is that, is 

587
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,920
that fair like? 
Yeah, I think when you look at 

588
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,960
really good entrepreneurs and 
business owners, when they first

589
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:44,720
start, they're the ones in the 
trenches. 

590
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:47,160
They're doing everything and 
they have to because financially

591
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,920
they have to to get it off the 
ground. 

592
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,480
But at some point if they can't 
stop back and truly be the CEO 

593
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,120
and the visionary and they're 
doing all the admin, how do they

594
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,760
truly grow their dream to what 
they want it to be, right? 

595
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,120
I go back to the old Jack Walsh 
adage of I surrounded myself 

596
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,960
with people smarter than me that
had the expertise I didn't have.

597
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,720
And that's what you really need 
to do in business is what are 

598
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,120
the parts and pieces you can't 
do and who do you bring in to do

599
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,080
that for you? 
So for instance, when I started 

600
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:18,360
in business with my background, 
I probably could have set up my 

601
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:21,880
LLC, done all my contracts, 
everything myself, but that's 

602
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,080
not my expertise. 
So I hired a lawyer and I hired 

603
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,960
an accountant to do those things
for me. 

604
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,440
Same idea for a small business 
owner. 

605
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,480
Lots of times we lean on the CFO
because they're really smart and

606
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,880
they're really educated and we 
know they're just going to make 

607
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,160
it happen because your numbers 
person never let's anything fall

608
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:39,480
through the cracks. 
They make sure things are done. 

609
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:43,880
But as I talked to somebody 
who's ACFO recently, she said to

610
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,960
me, I need you to help me with 
this client. 

611
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,120
She's a fractional CFO for this 
client. 

612
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,920
She said he's growing at the 
speed of light and he's just so 

613
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,200
far ahead of me. 
I cannot keep up with him. 

614
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:58,960
And HR is not my specialty. 
So I need you to bring him the 

615
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,800
compliance side of HR so we keep
him compliant and in business as

616
00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,800
it grows. 
And I think that's what's hard 

617
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,480
is, you know, you need to spend 
the money on it, but it's hard 

618
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,360
to get yourself there and let go
and let somebody else do it. 

619
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:13,640
But it's like interviewing an 
employee. 

620
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,040
You interview the people and if 
they're the right fit and the 

621
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,280
right mindset, then they're 
going to help you grow in 

622
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,640
exponential ways you never would
have seen coming. 

623
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,440
You know, that just triggered a 
question too, Lisa. 

624
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,000
So like thinking about the 
hiring process and, you know, 

625
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:32,440
obviously as an HR outsourced HR
solution, you're probably going 

626
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,280
to be involved in some fashion 
with the hiring process. 

627
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,480
And do you do actual interviews 
for your clients? 

628
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,080
Yeah. 
Yeah, interviewing is actually a

629
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,280
fun thing to do. 
Yeah, I love. 

630
00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,600
Yeah, well, for some of us, some
people hate it. 

631
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,320
Because they really. 
Yeah, I love people and I love 

632
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,480
getting to know people. 
And I'm my husband will tell you

633
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:57,640
I'm extremely curious and I will
ask a lot of questions to the 

634
00:31:57,640 --> 00:31:59,640
point where you're like, that's 
just enough. 

635
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,080
Just stop talking to me. 
And he'll kid me. 

636
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,280
He'll tell me. 
But like, she can talk to a door

637
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:06,760
knob. 
I swear to God I will talk to 

638
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,120
anybody. 
What do I like about? 

639
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,600
I know eventually I want my own,
but I'm not. 

640
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,480
I just don't have the brain 
power for it yet. 

641
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,120
Mike, it's trust me. 
I've already figured out what it

642
00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,480
will be called. 
It's going to be great. 

643
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,600
Interviewing is really just 
about getting to know people and

644
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:27,760
finding out how they work, 
right? 

645
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,640
And if you, somebody taught me 
early on in my career, if you 

646
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,400
ask a question and you sit back 
and you're quiet long enough, 

647
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,600
they'll tell you everything you 
need to know about them because 

648
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,720
the interviewee is very nervous 
and they're going to fill quiet 

649
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:44,560
space with information. 
And so think about your podcast,

650
00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:45,880
right? 
Like there's moments you're 

651
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,920
like, oh, I was hoping they were
going to keep talking, but they 

652
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:49,640
stopped. 
If I'm quiet for a second, will 

653
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,480
they keep talking? 
And it's, that's just how the 

654
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,400
people work. 
When they're nervous, they'll 

655
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:58,280
fill a silent space. 
And so I love getting to know 

656
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,280
people, talking to people. 
And for me, when you're 

657
00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,880
recruiting for your business, 
it's not just about the position

658
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:05,680
in front of you. 
It's what else are we going to 

659
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,520
have in the future? 
Because this may be a candidate 

660
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,960
I want to keep in touch with 
because I want to put them into 

661
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,160
something else. 
And so a good example of is that

662
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:18,920
is we interviewed somebody for a
position and they didn't quite 

663
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:21,360
fit the position, but they knew 
it was somebody that needed to 

664
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,960
be part of this organization. 
And I went to the CEO and the 

665
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,120
operations director and said, I 
don't know what else we need but

666
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,760
me, we need this person on our 
team. 

667
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:32,560
How do we find a space for them 
and sat down and put our heads 

668
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,960
together and said, we need to 
hire this person to do XY and Z.

669
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,720
That is her expertise brought 
her in and she brought so much 

670
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,640
value to the organization and is
still there and growing in that 

671
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,840
role. 
You have to look past what you 

672
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,320
need in the moment and or 
connect them to somebody else. 

673
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,360
I've connected them to other 
employers before and said, I 

674
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:54,600
know you didn't get the role 
here, but you should look over 

675
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,400
here. 
This person has a roll open that

676
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,080
I think fits for you and helped 
people find jobs elsewhere. 

677
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,760
I just think it's our job in 
recruiting, whether we're with 

678
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,800
an employer or or a recruiter or
consultant, to help people find 

679
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,480
their fit in this world. 
That's fair. 

680
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,840
And so I'm just curious, you 
know, obviously when small 

681
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,000
business owners like myself, we 
have a really tough time letting

682
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:25,719
go of control of things. 
And you know, it's I think over 

683
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,719
the years I've heard so many 
small business owners say the 

684
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,400
words like I'm just going to do 
it myself, like no one can do it

685
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,320
like I do it. 
So how do you bridge the gap 

686
00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:38,000
between control freak business 
owner like myself? 

687
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,360
I'm in recovery on that. 
I want you to know, Lisa, I'm 

688
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:42,280
trying really hard. 
I'm. 

689
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,639
Glad to hear. 
That, you know, but I definitely

690
00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:49,800
earlier in my career, you know, 
say 10 years ago, I definitely 

691
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,880
was like, really, it was really 
hard for me to let go of things 

692
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,040
like this because you're not, 
you know, someone else isn't 

693
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:57,320
going to ask the right 
questions. 

694
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,560
They're not going to know who's 
going to be a good fit for our 

695
00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:00,880
team. 
They're not going to know what 

696
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,320
I'm looking for in a, in a 
candidate. 

697
00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:05,760
How do you bridge that gap with 
your clients? 

698
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,040
Listen, first of all, if I don't
know you well enough, I can't 

699
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,360
bring you the right candidate. 
So I have to have a long 

700
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,560
conversation with you before I 
ever start recruiting for your 

701
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,800
business because I do need to 
know what are your expectations?

702
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,760
What are the personality traits?
What are the things you really 

703
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,040
need? 
We can teach skills all day 

704
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,680
long, but we can't treat, we 
can't train the personality you 

705
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:33,440
need and the the God-given 
traits in that person that you 

706
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,320
need on your team, right? 
We can teach the skill. 

707
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:40,080
You can teach somebody how to do
a podcast, but can you teach 

708
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:41,560
them how to be a good 
interviewer? 

709
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,240
Maybe, maybe not, right. 
So that's the first thing is I 

710
00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:47,800
have to get to know you really, 
really well as a client and 

711
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,000
interview you first. 
And then maybe the first time I 

712
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:54,160
recruit for you, you, we do it 
side by side so you can see what

713
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:55,640
I do and you're comfortable 
with. 

714
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,120
Hey, I do think I can hand this 
over to her, but you also have 

715
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,840
to look at what can you be doing
with your time that better grows

716
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,320
your business, makes you money, 
versus what is it costing you to

717
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,480
be the one in the room for eight
interviews, to fill one position

718
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:14,840
And you're spending 24 hours on 
that process. 

719
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,240
Is it worth it to you, right? 
Or is there a better use of your

720
00:36:19,240 --> 00:36:22,360
time for me to bring that person
in and I bring you two final 

721
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,960
candidates that you meet with 
and then you pick the final 

722
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:27,640
candidate. 
We don't leave you out of the 

723
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,440
process. 
We put you in the correct part 

724
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,160
of the process. 
That's fair. 

725
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,720
Yeah. 
It what it's such, for lack of a

726
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:40,760
better term, it is a time suck. 
Hiring is like, I'm, I'm going, 

727
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,800
yeah, I'm trying to hire 2 
positions right now. 

728
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:46,520
I've got it. 
And we have a it's not a short 

729
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,200
interview or hiring process. 
We have a 15 minute phone call. 

730
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,040
We have a first interview, a 
second interview. 

731
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,200
There's a, a test that we give 
most candidates depending on 

732
00:36:56,200 --> 00:37:01,040
which role they're coming into. 
And then, you know, job postings

733
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,920
and like, it's a lot of work. 
Yeah. 

734
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:07,680
And, and how are you focusing on
the main goals of your business 

735
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,440
when you're spending your time 
on that? 

736
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,960
And when are you sleeping, Mike?
Because I know you're you're not

737
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:14,880
sleeping to make it all happen. 
No, I that's just it. 

738
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,400
I'm on my laptop until 8/9, 
10:00 at night depending on and 

739
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,800
then back up at 5:00 in the 
morning. 

740
00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:23,880
So it's, it's a lot. 
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 

741
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,240
Like hiring it is, it's a lot of
work. 

742
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:32,680
And I like, I think, and this is
not to my benefit, it's probably

743
00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,680
to my detriment, but I like, I 
tend to put off hiring for 

744
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,920
positions as long as I can 
because the process is just so 

745
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,640
awful. 
It's almost like hiring people. 

746
00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:46,320
What's that? 
It makes it more painful for you

747
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,520
because you've already put it 
off for so long, you're behind 

748
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,400
the 8 ball and getting done what
you need done. 

749
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,560
But now it's painful because 
you're in a rush to do it and 

750
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,960
you want to get it done as 
quickly as possible to fill the 

751
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,320
position. 
Whereas if there were steps 

752
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,640
before that and somebody was 
taking over, I mean, just 

753
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,400
posting and gathering resumes 
and sorting through resumes 

754
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:09,760
alone takes you how many hours 
that somebody else could do for 

755
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,600
you and say these are the top 10
candidates we should talk to. 

756
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:15,680
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a lot of 
time. 

757
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,800
I mean, I, you know, to your 
point, yeah, I definitely put it

758
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:24,600
off and then like, but I'm also 
very structured and like, I will

759
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,040
not allow myself. 
So the week that I'm doing those

760
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,400
first 15 minute phone calls, I 
will not allow myself to 

761
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,520
schedule anyone for their first 
interview. 

762
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:34,400
I have to get through all the 
phone calls first. 

763
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,240
Like, and even though I need to 
hire that person now, I have to 

764
00:38:37,240 --> 00:38:41,240
like force myself to drag it out
because otherwise I'm going to 

765
00:38:41,240 --> 00:38:45,720
rush and make a bad decision. 
And I it, but there's this, this

766
00:38:45,720 --> 00:38:50,360
little devil on my shoulder that
keeps going, oh, just hire that 

767
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,200
person. 
You know, I'm like, no, I got to

768
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,760
wait because I'm going to hire 
that person and then an even 

769
00:38:55,760 --> 00:38:57,920
better candidate's going to come
along because I just wasn't 

770
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:58,920
patient enough. 
But. 

771
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,320
Well, in in the old, yeah, the 
rule is hire slow, fire fast, 

772
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:07,080
but you don't want to hire so 
slow that you're losing 

773
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,200
candidates. 
So if you don't have enough time

774
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,640
to really get them through the 
process quickly and well, you 

775
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:14,640
could lose really good 
candidates that way too. 

776
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,520
And I've seen that happen. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. 

777
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:21,000
And firing is just awful. 
I hate firing. 

778
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,600
Do you fire people, Lisa? 
Yeah, it's never fun. 

779
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,960
And how I walk, I walk into it a
couple of different ways. 

780
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,800
And so I was just having this 
conversation on LinkedIn with 

781
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:36,480
somebody. 
First of all, most likely the 

782
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:39,080
person you're firing has made 
decisions to put themselves in 

783
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,480
this position. 
Rarely is it truly we're out of 

784
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:45,200
money, we're out of funding. 
It's rarely those things. 

785
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:46,920
And if it is, those people see 
that coming. 

786
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:49,800
Most of the time they've made 
decisions to put them in this 

787
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,000
place. 
So you have to remember that, 

788
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,320
yes, they've made decisions that
put in them here. 

789
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,920
However, it is a human in front 
of you, right? 

790
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,200
And every one of us in our 
lifetime has probably been fired

791
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,160
from something. 
We've all been there. 

792
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,280
We know what it feels to be on 
the other side. 

793
00:40:05,720 --> 00:40:08,240
You have to bring the human side
of that to the table. 

794
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:12,000
Be willing to deal with tears, 
be willing to listen, be honest 

795
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:15,120
about why they're being let go. 
When you look at somebody and 

796
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,400
say, well, it's just no longer a
good fit here. 

797
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,720
They know there's another reason
behind it and if it really is a 

798
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:24,160
good fit. 
Be honest, Say the skills we 

799
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:26,120
thought you had aren't fitting 
what we need here. 

800
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,880
The role is changing because of 
this or that. 

801
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,480
We've tried to send you to 
training, it didn't work. 

802
00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,880
You're not meeting your quotas. 
We feel like maybe this isn't 

803
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:36,840
the right industry for you, 
whatever it might be. 

804
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:40,280
Or you blatantly disregarded the
rules three times and we've had 

805
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:41,640
this conversation and now you're
done. 

806
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:43,480
And this is the reason we're 
letting you go. 

807
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:48,640
It is actually more kind to be 
honest than to hide the reason 

808
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,920
why you're letting somebody go 
at the end of the day. 

809
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,000
And I think that people are so 
afraid of that hard conversation

810
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,880
that they make it worse. 
I have literally had people hug 

811
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,880
me, cry and say I hate that I'm 
leaving, but thank you for 

812
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,240
everything you did for me while 
I was here, which tells me I at 

813
00:41:07,240 --> 00:41:10,720
least did it in it in a human 
and a compassionate enough way 

814
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,880
that they understood that I 
tried everything. 

815
00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:18,840
And so that's what I do. 
I cry after I fire people. 

816
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,920
I'll be completely honest. 
I practice the conversation. 

817
00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:25,320
I do, Mike, I'm a crier. 
People don't know that I hold it

818
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,080
well, but I'm a crier. 
I come by it naturally. 

819
00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,080
My dad is a crier. 
If you've ever met my dad, 

820
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,320
you'll see him cry at some 
point. 

821
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,240
But I also at the end of the 
day, have gratitude that I'm the

822
00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,160
person that gets to have the 
conversation. 

823
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:42,320
So I know it's done well and 
with compassion. 

824
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,120
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's just so 
hard. 

825
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,760
It's obviously it's probably the
worst point of someone's 

826
00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,880
employment, right, when you have
to terminate, terminate them and

827
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,040
have that conversation. 
But also from an employer 

828
00:41:56,040 --> 00:41:59,440
standpoint, I'm also like, I 
don't know if I'm going to say 

829
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,520
something that's going to get me
sued. 

830
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:03,240
Like I don't, you know what I 
mean? 

831
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:07,720
Like it's just, it's just a, 
it's bad all around for 

832
00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:09,400
everybody involved. 
And to your point, like 

833
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,920
typically, I mean, we have had 
to have to let people go in the 

834
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:17,240
past because we overstaffed and 
got on the wrong side of the, 

835
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,280
you know, equation and, and had 
to slim down our staff because 

836
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:26,080
of that, which was bad business 
decision on our part to get 

837
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,000
that, you know, to get that fat 
with employees, so to speak, as 

838
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,480
they say. 
But also we've had to terminate 

839
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:37,080
people because like they're a 
bad apple and their attitude was

840
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,560
poor. 
And it's like, you know, having 

841
00:42:38,560 --> 00:42:43,040
those conversations, it's just 
like, yeah, yeah. 

842
00:42:43,080 --> 00:42:46,200
No, it's never fun, right? 
And, and people laugh at me. 

843
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,960
We don't have children, but I've
taught children and I have 

844
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:50,360
nephews and a niece. 
I've worked with enough 

845
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:52,280
children. 
Having employees is sometimes 

846
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:54,640
like having children. 
Oh yeah, for sure. 

847
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,640
If we don't have boundaries and 
expectations, how do we have 

848
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,120
these conversations to say 
you're outside our boundaries 

849
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,960
and expectations and you're here
or you're not based on that 

850
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,960
decision you're making? 
Yeah, yeah, it's I definitely 

851
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:09,800
all the time. 
I mean, I, I think about my 

852
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,440
employees like they're my 
children. 

853
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:14,200
And I don't mean that 
condescendingly. 

854
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:16,520
They're just, I mean, also 
coincidentally, most of my 

855
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:18,440
employees are like 20 years 
younger than I am. 

856
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:20,800
So it's like, you know, they're 
all to me, they're all about 

857
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:24,600
kids, you know? 
Yeah, but you know, but you care

858
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:28,240
about them and, and you're, you 
nurture them and help them grow 

859
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:30,640
just like you do kids. 
I mean, there's, there's a lot 

860
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,720
of similarities there, but. 
Yeah. 

861
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,200
And and that's what I liken it 
to. 

862
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:35,960
I don't mean it in a 
condescending way either. 

863
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,040
I mean it in a way of we want 
what's best for them. 

864
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,920
So we nurture those 
relationships, but we always 

865
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,440
give them boundaries and 
expectations. 

866
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,160
That's how they grow and they 
within the organization the way 

867
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,800
we need them to. 
And if they can't meet those 

868
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,480
boundaries and expectations, 
it's a clear sign for all of us 

869
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:52,320
that they're just not the right 
person to be in our 

870
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,080
organization. 
Yeah, that's a tough one. 

871
00:43:55,840 --> 00:43:58,440
I know we're getting short on 
time, Lisa, but I, I'm just 

872
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:01,040
curious because we've, you know,
we have talked about like right 

873
00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:06,000
fit and culture and I know a lot
of that stuff kind of gears 

874
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:10,160
towards vision and mission and 
values for the company. 

875
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,720
Do you get into that type of 
work with your organizations if 

876
00:44:13,720 --> 00:44:15,960
they don't have a clear mission,
if they don't have a clear 

877
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,160
vision or company values? 
I will a little bit if they need

878
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:22,800
a help with it, but if it's a 
big project they're going to 

879
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,760
take on, that's more of a, 
that's more of a Wendy Waldron 

880
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:26,600
business. 
Consultation. 

881
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:30,200
That's more of an AOS thing. 
Yeah, You know, definitely would

882
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,120
help them, like, come up with 
what are the words that you 

883
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,880
think you want your vision and 
mission to surround when it 

884
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,440
comes to the employee side? 
And so when I set up my own, 

885
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,760
they really were more pulled 
from my martial arts career than

886
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,520
they were from my work career. 
And the biggest one for me is 

887
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,840
integrity and just always doing 
the right thing no matter what's

888
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,320
happening. 
And I teach my students and I 

889
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,400
tell people in the world, 
integrity is doing the right 

890
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:54,720
thing even when nobody's 
looking. 

891
00:44:55,600 --> 00:44:57,360
You make a mistake, you won't do
it. 

892
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,080
You see something that needs to 
be done, you pitch it and lend a

893
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,600
hand. 
And we never have egos and we're

894
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,800
never too big to do anything. 
I mean, the last organization I 

895
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,600
was with for 12 years was a non 
profit. 

896
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,360
I was the HR director. 
But most big events I was behind

897
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:14,360
the scenes taking out garbage 
and serving water because that's

898
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:15,800
where they needed somebody the 
most. 

899
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,120
And it was never beneath me. 
I, we had kitchen help quit and 

900
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:24,600
I went out and mopped floors. 
Like when you get to a point 

901
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,000
where that's all beneath you, 
you've missed the whole point of

902
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:31,040
serving people in this world. 
Yeah, whatever it takes, right? 

903
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:34,360
Whatever it takes. 
Keep cooking bottle washer. 

904
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:36,920
That's right, that's how we all 
start. 

905
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,160
So, so Lisa, people want to 
learn more about HR Ninja. 

906
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,120
They want to connect with you. 
Where do they find you? 

907
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:48,960
On the old Internet. 
Yeah, best place is LinkedIn. 

908
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,280
I'm on there the most Lisa 
Boucher or Lisa Voucher 

909
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,120
consulting. 
Either way you'll find me. 

910
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,880
It's very easy, easy to find 
Lisa Voucher and it's got the 

911
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,400
little ninja suit in between my 
name so you'll see it on there 

912
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:05,000
or my website lisavoucher.com 
very simple. 

913
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:08,520
OK, that's perfect. 
LinkedIn website. 

914
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,120
Lisa, thanks for that's easiest 
way. 

915
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,800
Thanks for coming on the show. 
It's great to catch up with you 

916
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:15,800
and hear about what you're 
doing. 

917
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,520
Thank you, it was good to see 
you and catch up after so long. 

918
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:22,240
Yeah, I know I and like we 
talked about before we start 

919
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,640
recording, you know, next time 
we'll we'll have you out to the 

920
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:29,200
farm and we'll we'll give you 
the we'll give you some eggs. 

921
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:31,640
I. 
Love fresh eggs. 

922
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,320
Nothing like a good fresh egg. 
Oh my goodness. 

923
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:38,160
I don't want to touch the 
chickens though. 

924
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,320
There's a whole chicken story 
I'll share someday. 

925
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,040
Someday that when you come out 
to the farm, we'll make sure you

926
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,760
share the chicken story. 
I will share the chicken story. 

927
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,600
Oh, awesome. 
Well, thanks again, Mika. 

928
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,200
I appreciate it. 
And of course, thanks everyone 

929
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,360
for listening. 
You know, you can find us on 

930
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,240
Rumble, YouTube, Spotify, Apple 
and of course every one of our 

931
00:46:57,240 --> 00:47:02,160
episodes on buying local dot US,
you know, please like and 

932
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,280
subscribe. 
If you're on YouTube or Apple or

933
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:07,480
Spotify, hit the like button, 
hit the subscribe button and 

934
00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:11,680
leave us a five star review, of 
course, and you'll hear from us 

935
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,080
next week, everybody. 
Thanks for listening.