1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:02,440 Welcome everyone to Buying Local. 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,000 I'm your host, Mike Nelson from 5 Towers Media joined today. 3 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:10,200 But Tracy, I know I'm going to mess up your last name so you 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,800 better you better yourself to the audience. 5 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:18,080 My name is Tracy Puckieber. Would you have been close? 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,400 Pronounced. I think I would have been close. 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,040 Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, you never know 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,800 when you get a bunch of consonants together, they can 9 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:28,240 have a lot of different ways, so. 10 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:32,920 I went from A5 letter last name to A8 or 9 so I feel that. 11 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,760 Tracy, also, do you have a bunch of like letters next to your 12 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,960 name on the Zoom thing? Do those stand for anything 13 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:41,520 notable? I do, yes. 14 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:43,840 So the Ms. is masters of science. 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:48,360 So I did my masters at Malloy College, which I think now is 16 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,920 actually Malloy University in Rockville Center on Long Island. 17 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,720 And then the MCBC is I am a music therapist. 18 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:59,600 So it's music therapies, music therapist, board certified. 19 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,720 So in order to be a music therapist who practices, one 20 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:07,840 must be board certified. OK, all right. 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:10,080 And I know we're going to get into a little bit about the 22 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:14,440 music therapy here further, but you know, I wanted to just kind 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,640 of talk a little bit about nourishing minds tutoring and, 24 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,800 and, and what they do. So can you give us kind of the 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:23,440 the 30,000 foot view? Sure. 26 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,040 So nourishing minds. I've been with Nursing Minds 27 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:31,600 since January of 24 and I am their resident music therapist, 28 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:33,400 their only music therapist at the moment. 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,520 So I do music therapy. I've done some tutoring with 30 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,240 them as well. So the one of the I feel like 31 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:44,600 the best things about nursery minds is that there is no brick 32 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,400 and mortar building. So it's really just word of 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:53,240 mouth, it's referrals, it's networking, it's virtual, it's 34 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:57,320 in person. We work from ages pre-K through 35 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,520 college. We do college prep, we do test 36 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,000 prep. We have a bunch of contracts 37 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:07,200 with school districts. So if there's issues with a 38 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,600 kiddo being in school, whether it's behavioral or medical, and 39 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,800 they are not able to be in school presently, that's where 40 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,120 we come in. And we provide tutoring in 41 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:25,960 either their home or at a library or at the school 42 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,400 sometimes too. Very nice. 43 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,040 And I know obviously for people that listen to the show on a 44 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:34,120 regular basis, Chris has been on a few times over the last couple 45 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,640 of years. Yes, we've talked about it. 46 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:37,680 Yeah. Were you guys talking about it? 47 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:39,920 Yeah, he. Said he's never watched himself 48 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,280 on one of these. He always makes Lauren, his 49 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:47,440 wife, watch. Yeah, I mean, I, I can attest to 50 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:49,400 that. I, I have a real tough time 51 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,000 going back through and listening to our episodes and watching 52 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,720 them. And yeah, you know, we're just 53 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,240 all so self critical, I feel. Oh yeah, 100%. 54 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:01,800 I cringe every time. I myself. 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:08,040 So, yeah, so. Additionally to Music Therapy 56 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:11,320 for Nourishing Minds, I've also recently taken on the role of 57 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,600 business development representative. 58 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,720 So I'm taking some stuff off of Chris's plate. 59 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,600 So like some of the admin stuff, so onboarding and all those 60 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:22,400 kinds of things. Very. 61 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:25,160 Nice. Yeah, I've seen you at some 62 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,360 networking events and getting out there in the community. 63 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,440 And great. I know, I think, I think I saw 64 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:35,480 you at the the the Adirondack Chamber event right a few months 65 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:36,720 back. Yes, July. 66 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,840 That was my first one, yeah. Yes. 67 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,520 How'd it go? It felt like dating one-on-one. 68 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,400 It felt like it felt like a huge dating scene. 69 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,800 It was very odd. Honestly, it was good. 70 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,160 I went to the one on last week at the Heisman court. 71 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:56,000 Nah, it was it was better. There was actually one of the 72 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,000 girls that was kind of standing on her own and I literally just 73 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,360 be lying to her and I was like, I was you a couple months ago, 74 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,120 so let's chat. Yeah, yeah, those first ones can 75 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,520 be a little rough because it's. Yeah, you know, you're getting 76 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,160 out there and to your point, right, it's kind of like the 77 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:10,400 dating scene, Like it's like being at a bar and having to 78 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:15,360 meet people that, you know, and. But I do, you know, the, I do 79 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,560 enjoy the Adernic Chamber events. 80 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,399 They're very well attended. And I I'm sure you probably 81 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:21,079 found what I know. I've always found just 82 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,720 everyone's very inviting and welcoming and. 83 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,160 Yeah, definitely. So shout out to those guys, 84 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:29,240 Trisha and Ava and they do a great. 85 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,920 Job they do, they do. So. 86 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:33,760 So let's talk about music therapy. 87 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:35,960 Sure. What is it? 88 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,800 So music therapy, have have you heard of it before? 89 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,760 I I have OK but I still don't know what it is. 90 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,360 Yeah, So I will tell you how I found out about music therapy. 91 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:51,360 I was 16 years old. I was at a bar with my parents, 92 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:56,920 and there was this like Eyewitness News special that was 93 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:02,440 on about music therapy. And it was who I now know, 94 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,360 Deforea Lane, she is one of our pioneers of music therapy. 95 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,000 And she had on a teal, purple and black dress. 96 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,240 And she was leading around a bunch of little kiddos with a 97 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,840 tambourine. And they talked about what music 98 00:05:15,840 --> 00:05:20,560 therapy was. And I was a junior or sophomore 99 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:24,240 in high school. And I went up to my parents and 100 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:25,200 I said, that's what I want to do. 101 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:31,440 And here I am many years later doing, I won't say how many 102 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:39,960 years, but yeah. So music therapy is it is I feel 103 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,880 like the the four most important words for music therapy are that 104 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,600 it's clinical, that it's evidence based, that there's a 105 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,520 therapeutic relationship aspect to it and it is led by a 106 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,520 credentialed professional. So the actual definition, if you 107 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:59,240 will, is music therapy is the clinical and evidence based use 108 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:02,720 of music interventions to accomplish individualized goals 109 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,560 within a therapeutic relationship by a credentialed 110 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,000 professional. So, you know, a lot of other 111 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:12,880 professionals will, you know, say, oh, I do music therapy, I 112 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,640 use music therapy in my sessions. 113 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,480 But you know, if you're not, if you don't have that MTVC after 114 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,800 your name and I worked very hard for all those letters after my 115 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:27,360 name that it's not actual music therapy. 116 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:34,760 So one of the things that I probably had the hardest time 117 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,000 with in for my masters was our research class. 118 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,080 I, I mean, if you, if you do research, I feel like you really 119 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:45,040 have to like research in order to like find it enjoyable. 120 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:52,480 And it was definitely tough and, but, but that that research 121 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:58,440 aspect of it is where we have all of our evidence of how 122 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,480 important and how useful music therapy actually is. 123 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,400 So what kinds of things do you do in music therapy? 124 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:18,760 So what we so through nursing minds, I've been working, I've 125 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,680 been doing. It's called Twinkle Tracy's 126 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,200 Twinkle Tunes. So it's a program at the 127 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,840 Saratoga Children's Museum and it's for kiddos 3 and under. 128 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,200 We've been doing a six week pilot. 129 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,720 Tomorrow is actually our six week. 130 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:41,280 So it's for walking versus not walking kids. 131 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:46,360 And so it's basically, you know, I, I walk into a session and I 132 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,960 even in my hello song, I'm assessing all the things. 133 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,920 I'm assessing their affect. I'm assessing whether or not 134 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,040 they know their name. I'm assessing, you know, can 135 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,520 this kiddo walk? Does this kiddo have some 136 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:04,880 physical limitations? Can they make eye contact? 137 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,800 So you're really assessing all of those things upon meeting 138 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,960 clients. And then we take that 139 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,360 information and then design music sessions for either 140 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:24,200 individuals or groups based on whatever the needs are of the 141 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,480 client. So we can use improvisation, we 142 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:34,120 can use lyric analysis, we can use music and imagery. 143 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:38,039 We do guided imagery, music listening. 144 00:08:38,039 --> 00:08:47,120 We do music based learning. I do a lot of, I also work at 145 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:51,880 Building Kids in Queensbury. It's daycare through five years 146 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:59,720 old and I do a lot of books, so I sing a lot of books. 147 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,800 So you're tying in the education component, the literacy 148 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:08,920 component to music as well? So that's kind of fascinating. 149 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:12,480 How and I and I kind of know this. 150 00:09:12,560 --> 00:09:14,400 You know, we were talking I think before we started 151 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:16,280 recording. I've got a 5 year old, yeah. 152 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:21,240 And I know that when we are doing activities with him that 153 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,680 involves singing, he typically has a better recall on that 154 00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:28,840 information. And like even today we're just 155 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:32,160 doing his AB CS and he like he automatically just starts 156 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:36,520 singing them. So I'm just, I'm fascinated by 157 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,920 like what is the connection or how does it work that music 158 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,480 helps them to learn the information or recall the 159 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,560 information or understand the information more? 160 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,840 And the thing that I love the most is is, you know, can you 161 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,920 name anybody that you know that does not like music? 162 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,920 And I, and I just feel like there's, there's just that 163 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:03,480 connection in the brain that music sparks something different 164 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:07,120 in anybody, whether it's kiddos or adults. 165 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,880 And it just kind of changes the way that they think about it and 166 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,320 changes the way that they are able to approach it. 167 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:20,200 And I just really curious about this. 168 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,520 So you'd mentioned with some of the kids that you're doing the 169 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,080 music therapy for, they're not walking yet. 170 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,560 And so like, I tell me about like, let's unpack that a little 171 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:35,120 bit, 'cause I'm just the music therapy, like helps them to walk 172 00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,240 sooner or helps them. I mean, it's, it's not really a 173 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:41,600 matter of like sooner or later or anything. 174 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:46,680 So the the one, the younger group that I have, they are 16 175 00:10:46,680 --> 00:10:54,320 month triplets and just to see their engagement and their focus 176 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,480 and you know, when you think of 16 month olds, even when your 177 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,040 son was 16 months, how long were you able to get him to focus 178 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:02,800 for? Any one period of time, yeah. 179 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:04,680 Like 2 seconds, yeah. Right. 180 00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:08,960 So I mean, we've, I think our longest session was maybe 40 181 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:12,000 minutes and that's, that's, you know, with them being engaged. 182 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:16,280 So, you know, I'm using the music and a lot of what we do 183 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,720 when I sing songs, I will leave space. 184 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:26,440 So they kind of are incorporating their 185 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,160 communication and their language with song. 186 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:33,920 So AB CS, you know, kind of has that natural progression, that 187 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:37,920 natural plateau of the phrase. So you leave that last letter 188 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:42,320 and you know, for the most part kiddos will answer you. 189 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:49,600 And in terms of like walking, we do, I do a lot of movement 190 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:52,840 songs. We do a lot of jumping, hopping, 191 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:58,880 walking and just kind of you have to make it fun. 192 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,680 You know, you have to make it inviting. 193 00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,480 And one of the things that we talked about a few weeks ago in 194 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:11,120 our Gold Star group was how, you know, as music therapists, we 195 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:15,040 have to be on all the time. Like we can't have an off day 196 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,880 because the clients will pick it up, especially kiddos. 197 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:24,600 They will pick up your lack of focus, if you will. 198 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:30,440 And you just you have to be present all the time. 199 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,120 Yeah, yeah, I bet. Yeah. 200 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:37,440 Especially with that age group, I mean, yeah, you zone out, you 201 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:42,160 zone out for 30 seconds, man. They're, but they're on to 202 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:46,320 something else. So what, when? 203 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,960 So I, I think what I heard from him so far is you work with a 204 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,040 lot of younger kids, but also you can work with older kids as 205 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,080 well. What what are some of the like 206 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,400 common reasons that you might be brought in to work with a a kid 207 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:04,520 with music therapy not. We work in a lot with special Ed 208 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:07,960 special education. Before my husband and I moved up 209 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,560 here in 2022, we were from Long Island. 210 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:14,160 Originally we I worked at a special needs preschool. 211 00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:24,160 So there were a lot of language, communication, self-awareness, 212 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:29,800 self identification. And I actually, when I did my 213 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:35,240 internship many moons ago, I started at Schneider Children's 214 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,240 Hospital, which is now Cohen's, I believe, on Long Island. 215 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:44,120 And my supervisor, like 2 weeks before I was supposed to start, 216 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,880 my supervisor blew up with his knees. 217 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:51,200 So I started without him and I just kind of was shadowed child 218 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,120 life and kind of got the insurance and the outs of the 219 00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:56,560 hospital. And then it just kind of other 220 00:13:56,560 --> 00:13:58,360 things happened. His father had passed away. 221 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,640 He had to have resurgery. And they at that point they were 222 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:03,400 like, hey, you can't really stay without a supervisor. 223 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,760 So I ended up going to Alternatives for Children in 224 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,280 East Setauket on Long Island. And I worked with Beth Schwartz, 225 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:16,240 who has been my mentor. We actually were just texting 226 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,600 like an hour ago when I was telling her about this podcast. 227 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:25,720 And I remember one of the things that she said to me when I first 228 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,400 started was, you know, sometimes you're going to be the music 229 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,120 therapist, Sometimes you're going to be the mom, Sometimes 230 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,240 you're going to be the friend, Sometimes you're going to be the 231 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:40,640 boogie, the boogie wiper. And you know, part of working 232 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:46,480 with the special needs kids and even just kiddos in general is I 233 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:53,000 feel like you just have to be present with them. 234 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:58,080 And you know, I don't, I sing, I sing with them. 235 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:00,600 I'm at their level. I don't sing at them. 236 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:09,640 So a lot of the kiddos that I saw at the special needs school 237 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:14,080 was we did a lot with communication and language and 238 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:20,080 even just social awareness and, you know, safely being in a 239 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,360 space and understanding your body and your, you know, your 240 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:29,760 friends bodies. So is it the fact that you're 241 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,800 putting the messaging into a musical format? 242 00:15:33,560 --> 00:15:36,640 Is that like, is that the the method of action? 243 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,480 Like that's the thing that really makes it work or makes it 244 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,400 or is there something else going on? 245 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:44,480 Kind of, I feel like it's more of, you know, we're using music 246 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,240 as our tool. So we're using, you know, we can 247 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:50,760 do the same thing as a speech therapist, but we just use music 248 00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:58,440 as our way in basically. So we use music to work on the 249 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,840 same goals and objectives that the speech therapist will work 250 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,880 on or that the occupational therapist will work on or that 251 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:06,680 the regular teacher is working on. 252 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,480 Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. 253 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,720 I guess I'm just trying to like, you know, I'm just trying to 254 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:21,360 understand when someone would like say, hey, I, I, I'm having 255 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:26,120 trouble with this, whatever it is with my child and I should 256 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:29,360 consider looking at a, a music therapist to help with this. 257 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:37,200 Any, any kiddo, any adult who likes music, honestly. 258 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,000 I mean, we work with children. We work with adolescents, both 259 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,520 neurotypical and neurodivergent. We work in schools and 260 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,520 hospitals, mental health facilities. 261 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:51,880 There's a lot of work done with music therapy and the NICU to 262 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:56,640 regulate breathing, developmental and learning 263 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,880 disabilities, autism. And then on the adults and 264 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:03,480 geriatrics side, I used to work at a a nursing home. 265 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:08,760 So there was Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, traumatic brain 266 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,480 injuries, mental health, labor and delivery. 267 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,160 I know when I was pregnant with Brady, I made several playlists 268 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:26,160 on my phone for specific parts of Labor, substance abuse, 269 00:17:26,160 --> 00:17:28,440 developmental and learning disabilities. 270 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,840 There's really, you know, it's, there's so many places that we 271 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:40,240 can do good with music therapy. Yeah, yeah. 272 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,120 And that's unlike, as you say, all that stuff. 273 00:17:42,120 --> 00:17:47,760 It's like it really sounds like it can be a part of therapy or 274 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,520 treatment for a lot of different things. 275 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,840 Yeah. Is there anything it doesn't 276 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:53,400 help with? I don't. 277 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,360 And we go back to the, you know, to the music is the universal 278 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:01,360 language, you know, And I, I don't, I don't think I've ever, 279 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,320 in my 20 plus years, I don't think I've ever met anybody that 280 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,840 really doesn't respond in, in some way to music. 281 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:18,840 That's so tell me a little bit more about someone comes to you. 282 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,040 They're like, hey, you know, my, my child has, I don't know, 283 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,640 maybe they're delayed speech or right, like what? 284 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,080 What are the kinds of things that you're specifically that 285 00:18:30,080 --> 00:18:32,080 you're going to do for those for those people? 286 00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:39,400 For delayed speech, I would take, I mean, I'm, I'm assuming 287 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,160 we're talking like early intervention, like little little 288 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:44,960 kiddos, like 1-2 years old, three years old. 289 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,160 Yeah, well, it it's, I mean, I asked that one 'cause I remember 290 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,480 reading a piece about coming through COVID, a lot of kids had 291 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,720 delayed speech because for whatever reason, whether it was 292 00:18:57,120 --> 00:19:00,960 lack of socialization or masks or all of it or whatever, that 293 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,000 whole crew of kids that are that came through that at a certain 294 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,400 age that they high percentage of them are dealing with delayed 295 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:09,400 speech, right. I just thought that might be 296 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,440 something that you know more. Yeah, yeah. 297 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:19,080 So, you know, a lot of I, I in my own practice, I will start 298 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:23,280 with more familiar songs for those age ranges. 299 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:28,480 So I would do Wheels on the Bus, I would do AB CS and just kind 300 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:35,160 of get a sense of what they're able to contribute and then kind 301 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,560 of take it from there. So that would be and then I 302 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:42,960 would take, you know, any of the like the wheels on the bus, you 303 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,760 know, you're using your arms, you're kind of lifting, you're 304 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,880 identifying body parts. If you do happy to know it. 305 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:58,360 And then I move on to the non familiar songs, more like the 306 00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:04,640 movement songs where I'm. I'm gonna use jump and stomp 307 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:11,640 your feet and I'm looking to see if they're able to, to do that 308 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,640 well safely, you know, but just to see if they're, you know, 309 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:21,760 their gait and their physical, if there is any physical 310 00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:28,040 limitations, stuff like that. And then what are the kinds of 311 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:30,480 outcomes that you're looking for in those situations? 312 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:35,360 Slow and steady, you know, we're really just looking for, 313 00:20:35,360 --> 00:20:39,160 especially with, you know, if there's a speech delay, you 314 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:40,840 know, it's not going to happen overnight, it's not going to 315 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,880 happen in the first session. You know, we, you have to build 316 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,080 that back to the first thing I mentioned about the therapeutic 317 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:48,480 relationship. You know, you have to build a 318 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,000 rapport, you have to build trust. 319 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:59,200 So you're kind of taking each session and trying to build on 320 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:03,200 what you did in the in the previous session, you know, So 321 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,000 I'm looking for, you know, however many sessions in I'm 322 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:13,560 looking for, you know, the color identification or the numbers or 323 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:23,320 the letters or for them to increase their attention, their 324 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,560 focus. Yeah. 325 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,680 How do you do that, Tracy? That's $1,000,000 question. 326 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:31,240 Yeah, I know. I mean, when I find it out, I'll 327 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:37,280 let everybody know. Yeah, I don't, you know, with 328 00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,720 the, with the therapeutic relationship. 329 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:45,000 I remember, I think I was at the school that I was at for maybe a 330 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:49,080 year or so and one of the parents had come to pick up 331 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:54,800 their daughter and I had my some kind of music, something on me, 332 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,520 my guitar or something. And she stopped me and she said, 333 00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:59,840 are you Miss Tracy? I said, yeah. 334 00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,280 She said, oh, my daughter, She she loves you. 335 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,160 She pretends to be you when she's at home. 336 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:08,120 Like she'll like conduct her music therapy session and she'll 337 00:22:08,120 --> 00:22:11,120 do music with all her stuffies. And that was awesome. 338 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:14,320 That was that's kind of like those those those are the 339 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,680 reasons that we do what we do to hear those stories, you know? 340 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:21,240 And then what about like working with older kids? 341 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:27,560 So, you know, let's say maybe that the tweens or or ugly teens 342 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,440 like what? What are some common things that 343 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,880 you're working with those age level kids on? 344 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:43,800 I feel like for those tweens, those teenager kiddos, probably 345 00:22:44,120 --> 00:22:47,880 emotional regulation, emotional identification. 346 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,120 I worked when I did my internship at the Children's 347 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:56,760 Hospital, we worked with an eating disorder group and we did 348 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:58,280 lyric analysis with them every week. 349 00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:02,720 So we would take a new song. And, you know, it's amazing how 350 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,200 you're able, how kiddos are able to, and it, it was a Children's 351 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,600 Hospital. So they're, you know, under a 352 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,960 certain age, they're in that tween teen age range. 353 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,800 But it's amazing to be able to see the the conversation that 354 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,240 kind of comes up when you're doing something like that. 355 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,680 And that you kind of, I don't know if you've ever listened to 356 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,680 a song that you know so well and then you hear it acoustically or 357 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,480 you just, or some you hear it sung by somebody else and it 358 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:41,160 just kind of you hear it different and it means something 359 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,920 different. And just to be able to go 360 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,920 through like with lyric analysis, to be able to go 361 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,600 through phrases or words that kind of mean something to you. 362 00:23:51,840 --> 00:23:57,280 And then you're able to kind of take that into your life and 363 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:02,360 carry that over into how you are, how you relate to people, 364 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:09,440 and you know, how you are able to identify motions and to 365 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:13,480 express yourself really. And you said what kind of 366 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,080 analysis? Lyric Analysis. 367 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,960 Lyric analysis. OK, so in that, so in that case, 368 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,120 it's not so much about singing songs like it is with the 369 00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:28,280 younger kids, It's more about using the music as a like a a 370 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,600 tool to help them kind of self analyze. 371 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,080 Would that be? Yeah, yeah. 372 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,200 I remember when I was in, when I did my undergrad at Berkeley 373 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,160 College of Music in Boston, and I remember for our percussion 374 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,640 class, we had to do something for our final. 375 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,800 And I didn't really know what I was doing until the day before. 376 00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,600 And I remember thinking about friends of ours that they just 377 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:55,880 kind of, they fought all the time. 378 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,240 And I remember we did. I had everybody, I mean, there 379 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:01,600 were like four of us in the class, I think. 380 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,840 So everybody had a drum and everybody had their backs to 381 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,520 each other. So there was no eye contact. 382 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:08,760 You couldn't see what anyone was doing. 383 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:12,680 You just had to use your ears and listen, and it's amazing how 384 00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:18,400 fast you just kind of connected through the music and, you know, 385 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:21,480 through the drumming it's. Interesting. 386 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,120 It's interesting that it has all these different uses across all. 387 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,800 Different. Modalities right like that is 388 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:34,360 absolutely wild, right so so let's talk about how we bring 389 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:37,320 this into with nourishing minds. So tell me a little bit about, 390 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,960 you know, how how did it come to be that, you know, nourishing 391 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,120 minds was like, hey, let's add music therapy to our repertoire 392 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:45,400 of two of. People. 393 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,240 Yeah. So I there was, he had put an ad 394 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,520 out. There was one particular kiddo 395 00:25:52,560 --> 00:26:00,960 who really responded to music very well and at the time was 396 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:07,720 home because there was no, I believe there was no program 397 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:14,640 that met his needs And they were just looking for, you know, like 398 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:20,200 an hour a week to work with him and he did great. 399 00:26:20,360 --> 00:26:23,960 He that was my intro to nourishing minds and music 400 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,280 therapy. And then from there, I kind of 401 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:31,160 went on and one, one thing that Chris will always say is, you 402 00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:35,280 know, music, whether it's actual music therapy that I'm doing or 403 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,160 tutoring, you know, music has always been my end. 404 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,960 You know, music is always the way that I'm able to establish 405 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,080 rapport and establish relationship because, you know, 406 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:48,760 she has a keyboard. Like, what are we gonna do with 407 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:50,280 that? Can I, can I see it? 408 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,600 And then, you know, just like that, you know, it works. 409 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:58,800 And then lately there's been there's just up here, there's 410 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:00,960 kind of a shortage of speech therapists. 411 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:06,040 And, you know, it's just another thing to offer school districts 412 00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:08,320 where, you know, we, we don't have a speech therapist, but 413 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:09,840 hey, I have this music therapist. 414 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,440 Would they be interested? And I and I can work on speech 415 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,920 just as well as a speech therapist could, you know, 416 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,320 differently. But it's a goal. 417 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,200 Yeah, yeah. So how does it work now? 418 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,360 So like I, you know, obviously I know Nourishing Minds offers 419 00:27:29,360 --> 00:27:32,280 both in person and like Zoom. Virtual, yeah. 420 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,560 Virtual tutoring sessions? So do you do like music therapy 421 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,680 sessions via the virtual world as well or? 422 00:27:41,360 --> 00:27:45,520 I have, I have done it before there was 1 kiddo that I did do 423 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,240 it with. I I personally don't prefer it, 424 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,040 especially for the first few meetings. 425 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:56,120 I feel like that in person connection really has to be in 426 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:57,200 person. You know? 427 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,680 It's hard to it's hard to do music therapy sometimes when 428 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,720 it's a new kiddo or any, any at any age, a new, a new client in 429 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:13,360 general. And that's from my my preference 430 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,640 I guess. Yeah. 431 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,320 Well, I don't think it's just, I mean, I, you know, from a 432 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,240 bonding and rapport standpoint, which obviously is very 433 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:23,120 important in what you're doing, it's very, it's not impossible, 434 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,960 but it is a lot harder when you're not in the same room and 435 00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:27,000 face to face. Right. 436 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:27,600 Yeah. Yeah. 437 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,920 And even during, you know, during COVID, when I was at the 438 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:35,400 school, we, you know, we did music via Zoom, but it was, I 439 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,560 had already been working with all those kiddos for, you know, 440 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,440 for six or seven months. So it's not like you know, it's 441 00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:44,840 different than walking in blind, not really knowing anything 442 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,160 about them, them not knowing anything about you, especially 443 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:50,680 with kids. Yeah. 444 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,040 And even then, even knowing them, it was still hard. 445 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,960 It was still hard to make them sit, you know, in front of a 446 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:01,320 computer, especially when they're used to being in person 447 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,680 and they're used to interacting. Yeah, you know. 448 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:08,200 Yeah, those younger kids especially, right? 449 00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,360 Like I know like my 5 year old if he's watching a show on 450 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,080 television, he's he's only half watching it right? 451 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,360 Like also playing with his cars or his trainings and doing. 452 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:19,440 All stuff and Yep, Yep, Yep. My son will. 453 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,200 He'll sit for a little while. He'll sit for like 1520 minutes 454 00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,120 depending upon what it is, but a lot of times he'll just kind of 455 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,440 like it'll be on the background in the periphery and he'll kind 456 00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:32,320 of stop and look up sometimes but then just keeps going and 457 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,640 doing what he's doing. Yeah, what? 458 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:36,680 So do you play like all instruments? 459 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:43,560 I my My principal is piano and I sing and I play the organ. 460 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,960 I've been playing in churches since I was 16. 461 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:53,920 I fill in up here every now and again at and guitar. 462 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,400 I'm not the most adept at guitar 'cause my hands are pretty 463 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:02,160 small, but I make it work. And I feel like that was the one 464 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:06,160 thing that COVID helps me with, was kind of finding the guitar 465 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,720 again and just getting more comfortable with playing and, 466 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:21,760 and just trying out different songs, you know, just to see 467 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,600 what worked and what didn't. As far as like with the kids and 468 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,840 stuff you're saying? Yeah, and even just like my, my 469 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,960 comfort level on the guitar as the, I mean, I, we had to take, 470 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,200 I think we did 2 semesters in undergrad, but you know, piano 471 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,920 was always my principal. Piano was my comfort for me. 472 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:46,120 It's easy to it's easier for me. I I know more about the piano 473 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,360 than I mean, for the guitar with the size of my hand, I mean, I 474 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,360 kind of have two chords in my pocket and with two chord 475 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,560 progressions, and that's pretty much it. 476 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:56,440 Yeah. But the kids don't know that. 477 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,040 Nobody knows that. Right, right, right. 478 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,680 They, they don't know that you're hammering C&G for. 479 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,440 Exactly, I play I play AD for pretty much every song. 480 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:10,400 So I as someone plays a little bit of guitar very horribly. 481 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:16,960 I am always fascinated by people that are Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. 482 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,240 I think it's just such a wild talent and how some people can 483 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:25,080 just understand it is and easily my my son is one of those 484 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,800 people. He like, he's amazing. 485 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,520 He he basically has taught himself a few different 486 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:31,920 instruments at this. Point and I'm great. 487 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:33,520 Yeah, and I'm just always amazed by it. 488 00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,840 I'm. Like yeah, yeah. 489 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:39,160 And I, my grandma used to play the piano and they live down the 490 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,280 street from us. And my aunt and uncle, my 2 491 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,720 cousins, they were at the other end of the street. 492 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,760 So you know, the, my grandparents were in the middle 493 00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:48,200 and that was kind of like our meeting point. 494 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,600 And our bus stop actually was like right down the street from 495 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,880 their house. So we would often go there after 496 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,560 school. And that's kind of how I fell in 497 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,160 love with the piano. And it wasn't until, I mean, not 498 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,320 recently, but it wasn't until like 5-10 years ago that I went 499 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:05,920 to sit down. My grandma used to play Darktown 500 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:11,080 Starters Ball, 20s or 30s, and I sat down to play it and I was 501 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:13,120 like, it doesn't sound how Nanny used to play it. 502 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,160 And my mom was like, well, she didn't read music. 503 00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,960 I was like, it was like, wait, what? 504 00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,040 I had, I had no idea at the time that she didn't play music. 505 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,400 And she just kind of comps the chords and knew the melody and 506 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,000 played the melody. And on the, you know, here I sit 507 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,440 down and try to play and I was like, well, that's not what she 508 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,480 played. That's interesting. 509 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:38,000 Yeah, I, I actually trying to remember what song it was, but 510 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,600 when my son, my son was much younger and he was, he took 511 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,240 lessons for like maybe a year. And I remember I taught him how 512 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,520 to play a song on guitar. And then he went to one of his 513 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,440 music lessons and his teacher was like, yeah, that's not how 514 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,480 you play that song. I was like lots of ways to skin 515 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,200 a cat as they did. He throw you under the bus and 516 00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,440 tell him that. Oh yeah. 517 00:32:57,760 --> 00:32:59,800 Oh, for sure. That's all my dad showed me. 518 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,560 Like that's what. He said. 519 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,400 I don't know, right? I don't know if I'm the the best 520 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:08,320 teacher, apparently. So I know that we're getting 521 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,960 short on time, but you know, and I don't want to keep you here 522 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,000 all day. I'm sure you've got other things 523 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,320 to do. But you know, if you were going 524 00:33:15,320 --> 00:33:18,080 to tell our listening audience you know one thing about music 525 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:23,240 therapy, what would it be? Jeez, one thing. 526 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,560 I know it's tough, tough 11 opportunity. 527 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:37,840 I think, I think every music therapist that I've met just has 528 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:42,880 a passion. I'm going to get all teary eyed. 529 00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,400 We have a passion for what we do. 530 00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:49,240 We love music and we love helping people. 531 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,400 And that's kind of why I fell in love with music therapy when I 532 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:56,160 was 16, because it just encompassed all the things that 533 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,320 I wanted to do in life, you know? 534 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,720 And I can do it with music and helping people. 535 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:13,360 And yeah, it's we it, I feel like music therapy found to me. 536 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,600 And I love, I love what I do. Yeah, it sounds like it found 537 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:19,800 you. That's a pretty cool story about 538 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,360 seeing that 116. And then I don't I don't know 539 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,760 how many 16 year olds that follow through with what their 540 00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,480 senior old goal was. Yeah, exactly. 541 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,840 I mean, I only looked at colleges that had music therapy. 542 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:34,880 I mean, I only looked at a couple, but but yeah, it's, it's 543 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,239 been great. That's awesome. 544 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:38,800 Yeah. So Tracy, if people want to 545 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,080 learn more about you, about nourishing minds and the 546 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,280 different ones that are out there, where do they find you 547 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,800 guys? Nourishing Minds tutoring.com. 548 00:34:48,159 --> 00:34:50,239 They could also shoot me an e-mail at 549 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:55,960 tracytracey@nourishingmindstutoring.com. That's perfect. 550 00:34:56,960 --> 00:34:57,920 Thanks so much for coming on the show. 551 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,320 I. Appreciate. 552 00:34:58,320 --> 00:34:59,840 Thanks for having me. Yeah. 553 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:03,560 Absolutely. And of course, you know, thanks 554 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,760 everybody for listening. You can find us on YouTube, 555 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,400 Rumble, Spotify podcast or podcast, Apple podcast. 556 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,080 And of course, you can find our episode listings and so much 557 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,800 more at buying local. dot USI hope everybody will check us 558 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,200 out. Leave us a review. 559 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,680 Please subscribe, like do all the things that they'll do on 560 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,800 those channels, right? All the things, all the things. 561 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:27,960 Thanks everybody.