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Welcome everyone to buying 
local. 

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I'm your host, Mike Nelson from 
5 Towers Media, joined today by 

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and Jim I I I, you may be our 
number one guest. 

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I'm not sure I actually. 
And so ladies and gentlemen, Jim

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Bruschak from the DACA in 
Greenfield Center. 

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But I, you know, it's funny, 
Jim, I had Jay Ingleston on the 

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show a couple days ago, who's 
also been on the show a good 

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number of times. 
And I was like I said to him, I 

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was like, I don't know. 
I was like either you or Jim, 

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I'm not sure which one of you 
guys have had on the show the 

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most, but it's a pretty tight 
running So but welcome back, 

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Jim. 
We're so we're super glad to 

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have you, man. 
Glad to be here, glad to be 

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here. 
Always a good time to share with

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you guys and I you're 
knowledgeable, knowledgeable of 

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all the things we do. 
So that helps. 

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And of course, we're we're happy
to get the get the word out 

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there. 
So much appreciated. 

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Well, listen, I, I love what you
guys do. 

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Obviously, you know, over the 
years I've done so many 

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different things with you guys 
that at, at your location and 

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beyond and I love it. 
I think it's really unique 

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programming. 
I think what you guys have the 

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offer is amazing. 
So I'm I'm excited to have you 

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on again and, and talk about 30 
years. 

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Yeah, yeah, that. 
Was amazing. 

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Yeah, 30 plus years related to 
specific last year, we we 

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celebrate our 30th camp year. 
So we're just past that 30 year 

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mark, but the celebration is 
still ongoing. 

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You know, we've passed 3 
centuries of doing youth camps 

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here. 
We've been doing programs for, 

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of course, longer than that, but
we organized our first ever 

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youth camps in the springtime 31
years ago, 30 years ago last 

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year, and we kind of did it on a
whim. 

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We had this idea, let's try to 
do some youth program because 

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originally I assume we'd be 
doing more stuff with grown-ups,

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but I'd already worked with kids
a lot as an author and a 

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storyteller and educator in that
capacity. 

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So we decided to give it, give 
it a whirl, you know, runs run a

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spring break youth camp here at 
Ndocina on our nonprofit, at our

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nonprofit facility and our 
nature preserve here. 

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And it took off. 
I mean, we filled, I think we 

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only advertised for like maybe a
month and a half and the camps 

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filled up. 
So we realized then we had 

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something. 
So we did some summer day camps 

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and that just was two weeks 
every summer for the first few 

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years. 
And that just continued to 

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expand until it took up a good 
portion of the summer until we 

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started adding some overnight 
camps. 

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So it just kind of it, it grew 
it, it, it organically grew 

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based on interest. 
And as we did the programming, 

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the interest just grew as well. 
So it's been a great 3 decades 

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of doing these camps and of 
course, they're continuing to 

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this day with the focus, of 
course, on kids learning some 

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key survival skills like shelter
making, fire making, as well as 

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nature awareness, which also 
includes animal tracking, you 

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know, plant and tree 
identification, and just how to 

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be comfortable in the woods, how
to understand how to get along 

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in the natural environment, feel
safe and be able to really enjoy

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the natural world. 
And of course, on top of that, 

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bringing in a lot of the native 
legends that my brother and I 

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were lucky enough to grow up 
hearing, a lot of them from our 

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father. 
So we passed down some of the 

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native traditions in the form of
storytelling, which also ties 

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into understandings of natural 
awareness, nature awareness. 

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And so we've just continued to 
build on that over the years. 

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And we started out with our 
adventure day camps. 

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Eventually we added our 
Pathfinder programs, which are 

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more, are more intensive teen 
programs. 

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Of course you offer for our kids
under the teens as well with 

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Junior Pathfinders, you know, 10
to 12 year olds, but teens 

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primarily is what we started 
Pathfinders with, which was our 

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first and continues our 
overnight camps, which are more 

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intensive wilderness camps for 
Kidsville, camp in tents, but 

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also towards the end of the week
at the camp and shelters they 

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built. 
So we've kind of continued to 

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build on the experiences. 
We've done trips in the 

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Adirondacks over the years with 
kids, canoe trips, all sorts of 

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different excursions just with 
the idea of increasing kids 

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understanding of the the natural
world and feeling more 

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comfortable in that environment.
You know, it's, it's really 

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perfect time for this 
conversation too, because 

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Kristen and I were just talking 
about summer camps for Bodie 

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and, and she mentioned yours 
because she got the, I don't 

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know where she saw it, if she 
got like the, the Greenfield 

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town newsletter or something, 
but it was somewhere she came 

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across it and she's like, or 
maybe she googled. 

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I'm not sure, but I, I, I wanted
to pick your brain. 

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So now I get to do it on a 
podcast, right. 

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So you've got, tell me a little 
bit more about the summer camps 

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because I know we're, you know, 
we're coming up on those pretty 

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fast. 
Sure, sure. 

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So yeah, so we start out with 
our with our Oz bond camps, 

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which is our ages basically like
5 to 7. 

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And those camps we will focus on
same things I mentioned, but 

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obviously to the level of the 
learner. 

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So the kids will learn shelter, 
making nature awareness. 

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So hear a lot of stories are 
taken native games, they usually

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aren't the group that does fire 
making. 

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They will get to see how fire 
making is done and understand 

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the principles of it. 
But we kind of start fire making

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at the 8 year old and above. 
And you know that guidance is 

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always there of course, 'cause 
there's something you need to be

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a very careful with. 
But of course it's an essential 

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survival skill. 
So, you know, we, we cater each 

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camp from, from Azaban to 
Owosso's, Noka Molson, all the 

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different age groups based on 
what the kids can learn. 

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And of course, once the kids 
have learned enough, they also 

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could qualify for some of our 
more advanced camps as they get 

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a little, little bit older, like
our Pathfinder camp. 

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And so most of them are very 
wilderness intensive, you know, 

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learning about the natural 
world, getting out and doing 

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these skills, but also having 
fun at the same time. 

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So we incorporate various games.
We also have a low ropes course 

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here kids utilize. 
We have different activities 

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throughout the day where they 
learn to use all of their senses

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more like blindfolding them and 
playing various games to learn 

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how to use their ears to listen 
to the and understand their 

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surroundings a little bit. 
But more so, you know, we want 

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it to be like a, a total, you 
know, sensory experience as 

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well, which is being in nature 
really is, you know, so learn 

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how to not just be looking at 
your phone all day, but 

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observing, listening to 
everything in your surround on 

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your surrounding world. 
So that's really what we tried 

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to open up people's awareness to
what's around them. 

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So a. 
Little better than with young 

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people. 
Yeah. 

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Well, and we should probably 
touch a little bit on your 

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family's ancestry, you know, as 
you may, as you gave the names 

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of the different categories of 
camps, if people aren't familiar

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with Nadakna, they might not 
know the background of why 

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you're using those names. 
So why don't you give us a 

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little bit of the the rundown 
there? 

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Sure. 
So we are of mixed ancestry, 

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European mixed with various 
native tribes from this part of 

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the country. 
We are members of the Mohegan 

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Abenaki tribe, one of the four 
state recognized Abenaki tribes 

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in the United States. 
But like all Abenaki people and 

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many people of native ancestry 
in this area, it's usually a mix

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of different ancestry. 
So we of course have our English

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ancestry, we have Slovak 
ancestry, we have quite a bit of

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Dutch ancestry, which also 
connects with some of our native

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ancestry, which includes, you 
know, Muncie, Lenape people, 

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Mohegan people, Mohawk people, 
and of course Western Abenaki. 

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But of course, all of those 
people kind of coalesce together

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at various times in history, 
such as at the community of 

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Scatter Coke, which I have 
relatives that made their way to

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this area via there from those 
various Native ancestries. 

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And then of course, a lot of 
people ended up settling in the 

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Saratoga region for the tourist 
trade as well as the basket 

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trade. 
And in fact, my dad's 

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grandparents who raised him, 
their family descended from 

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basket makers in this community 
of Native ancestry, mixed Native

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ancestry. 
So that's where kind of our 

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original connection, mostly 
through my dad, through his 

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grandparents, especially his 
grandfather, that connection to 

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this area. 
But of course, people back then 

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weren't very proud of their 
native ancestry. 

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So my dad, especially in his 
college years, wanted to seek 

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out a lot of the things that 
people were losing, like the the

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stories, like those 
understandings of the history, 

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because you didn't used to be 
able to make make money telling 

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stories or, or teaching these 
skills. 

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And so my dad really took it 
upon himself to learn these 

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things. 
And so my brother and I, as we 

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grew up, we heard all the 
stories. 

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We had an understanding of all 
of our ancestry. 

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And so of course, nowadays we're
very proud of it. 

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We like to share information 
with other people. 

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My brother is a course at 
language. 

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He speaks the language fluently,
teaches at Middlebury College, 

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runs courses throughout the year
in Abenaki language, Eastern 

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Algonquin languages, and of 
course has worked on movie sets,

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helping people learn the 
language to properly enunciate 

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the words on set. 
Yeah, yeah, it's really, really,

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really cool and a really cool 
family history, right? 

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You know, and I love that you 
guys are are so immersed in 

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sharing it with everybody, with 
the local community and, and, 

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and again, some of those skills.
And I know we and I've had many,

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many, many conversations about 
this stuff, but a lot of the 

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skills that you guys are 
teaching and, and at the whether

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it's at the child level or adult
levels, just really things you 

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don't really see a lot out there
anymore. 

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And so I think makes it more 
imperative that we're that the 

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programming that you have, 
right? 

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Oh, I agreed, Agreed. 
And we know we're having an 

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interesting situation now we're 
just seeing the end of what we 

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call the COVID bump. 
So during COVID for a little 

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while we are, we were one of the
few camps that was open and 

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because we're outdoor based, we 
got flooded with new kids. 

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All right, So this year we were 
wondering why are we? 

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So how, you know, the little 
kids, there's a lot less of them

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than the middle and especially 
the older kids. 

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We've never had teen groups this
big. 

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And we realized these were all 
the COVID kids, you know, they 

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came in during that time. 
Some of them were 6-7 years old 

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when they came in and they've 
stuck with us. 

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So that's really cool. 
And and you know, that was a 

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time that of course was rough 
for everybody and horrible 

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thing, but at the same time, it 
turned a lot more people onto 

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the net and going into the 
woods, you know, and of course 

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now the Adirondacks is dealing 
with the negative effects. 

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So many people are hiking now, 
which is great. 

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And of course we benefited from 
that as well, people wanting to 

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spend more time outdoors. 
And so we were here and once 

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again, it actually in the in the
long run kind of helped our 

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program. 
Right now we're trying to 

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backfill, you know, we need some
of those younger kids to come 

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back in here, you know, so we're
doing a lot of work to get some 

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of the youngsters back in here 
while we're doing quite well 

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with the older kids. 
And of course, you know, here 

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and in document our facility, we
also offer martial arts 

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programming. 
And of course, we do offer one 

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martial arts camp during the 
summer. 

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My family are, we are all black 
belts and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu 

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and other arts. 
And so we've incorporated 

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martial arts in this facility 
and that grew a lot post COVID. 

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People want to get back in 
shape. 

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And so that program has grown 
quite a bit. 

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And as you know, we also had to 
add another location for our Jiu

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Jitsu at Wilton Mall. 
So separate but related stuff, 

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which is of course grown over 
the last half decade quite a 

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bit. 
Yeah. 

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And on the on the martial arts 
side, you have are you what I 

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know that you have Kyokushin and
you have, well, are you still, 

226
00:11:40,600 --> 00:11:42,360
are you running any Jiu Jitsu 
out of the dock? 

227
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:44,680
Yeah, we still have some jiu 
Jitsu here at Indochina. 

228
00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,640
The kids program has has stayed 
here strong, although there are 

229
00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:50,840
still more of course in Jiu 
jitsu at Wilton Mall. 

230
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,720
But the kids are are still here 
because we also offer the kids 

231
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,920
Muay Thai so they can go back 
and forth between kickboxing 

232
00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,880
slash Muay Thai and Jiu Jitsu. 
So some of those same kids also 

233
00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,840
train at the mall. 
But then we have a population of

234
00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,000
kids that live close to here, 
they'll want to take advantage 

235
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:08,960
of being able to train in 
multiple martial arts. 

236
00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,560
And of course, martial arts, 
another one of the arts of life,

237
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,360
you know, as well as, you know, 
understanding your environment, 

238
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:16,520
survival skills. 
Martial arts is really part of 

239
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,480
that part of being a, a kind of 
a, a complete human being, you 

240
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:24,560
know, mind, body, spirit. 
And so kids programs doing great

241
00:12:24,560 --> 00:12:27,400
here for the adults. 
A lot of it is focusing now on 

242
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,120
the Muay Thai. 
Of course, we have the Kyokshin,

243
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,360
judo and a little bit of 
jujitsu. 

244
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:35,640
And we just had, we have one of,
if not the first professional 

245
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:39,320
Muay Thai fighter in the 
Saratoga area just won his 

246
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,240
second pro fight, this time in 
Buffalo. 

247
00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,440
He won his first pro fight while
living and training in Thailand 

248
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,360
for five months. 
Marcus Davis is a well known 

249
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:52,080
Saratoga grad great guy. 
His fire his his father that is 

250
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,800
only a few years ago retired 
from Saratoga Police Department 

251
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,800
and he's a great guy. 
He also helps coach here. 

252
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,400
Marcus Davis, very good fighter,
had an incredible KO with a 

253
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,560
spinning elbow in Buffalo at K4 
fighting pretty awesome this 

254
00:13:05,560 --> 00:13:07,960
past weekend. 
And this week at also martial 

255
00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:12,800
Arts, we had one of our our 
young, a 19 year old get gold in

256
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,640
the IBJJF in New York 
International Open, which is a 

257
00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,240
high level jiu jitsu tournament.
So we had a kind of a cool 

258
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,040
weekend. 
We had someone winning our 

259
00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:22,480
striking arts and someone 
winning our jiu jitsu arts. 

260
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:23,800
Very. 
Nice. 

261
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,400
I know I can speak to Marcus's 
coaching ability. 

262
00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:29,560
I've taken a couple of the movie
tag classes, only a couple 

263
00:13:29,560 --> 00:13:32,560
unfortunately because my 
schedule, but I did really enjoy

264
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,040
the classes and he was a really 
good instructor. 

265
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:37,840
No, he's a he's a great guy. 
He's he's kind of a fan 

266
00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:40,320
favorite. 
So we were happy when he came 

267
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:43,360
back. 
He turned, he turned pro in 

268
00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,720
Thailand. 
So we were happy when he 

269
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,640
returned home because we get to 
have him help coach here and of 

270
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:55,360
course to win his his US debut 
because he debuted in Thailand 

271
00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,480
to, you know, win his first pro 
fight in the United States. 

272
00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,520
That way was pretty awesome. 
So knockout in the second round 

273
00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:04,800
and just just a great guy though
to you meet him. 

274
00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,920
He's really humble but extremely
skilled. 

275
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:09,120
Well, Congrats to Marcus on the 
win. 

276
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,840
So you've got you have the 
summer camps coming up. 

277
00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,080
Obviously that's a times of the 
essence, right? 

278
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:17,840
That's summer's coming fast, 
man. 

279
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,440
You got the martial arts. 
What? 

280
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,160
What are the kind of programming
guys doing over? 

281
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,240
At so we also of course recently
as you know rebooted up our our 

282
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,920
Sunday survival series. 
We're doing a series of classes 

283
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,840
throughout the year, basically 
the final Sunday of every month.

284
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,680
I've heard every quarter that is
that every month we do several 

285
00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:46,320
times a quarter, sorry, back 
that up 2 * 1/4 last Sunday of 

286
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,760
the month. 
We offer courses for grown-ups 

287
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:51,480
and they're, they're, they're 
like half day classes and we 

288
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:53,440
made them affordable $40 
classes. 

289
00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,200
You can come in and learn animal
tracking. 

290
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,680
And next, not this coming 
Sunday, but the Sunday after we 

291
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,920
have our wilderness navigation 
essentials class and we still do

292
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,120
have some room in that. 
So that's a really good course 

293
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,680
to understand how to navigate 
the woods with a compass and 

294
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,400
also how to use natural 
navigation, how to use the sun, 

295
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:16,160
the stars, the moon, the way 
plants grow, and just anything 

296
00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,440
in nature that could be used to 
tell which way is which. 

297
00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:22,240
And of course, not being lost is
kind of an important survival 

298
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,880
skill. 
And of course, I have another 

299
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:27,320
animal tracking course coming up
at the end of May. 

300
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,200
And then we will be shortly 
after that adding a bow drill, 

301
00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,720
fire making course, learn how to
make your own fire by friction 

302
00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:35,800
kit, and then just go on from 
there. 

303
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,080
So we're going to keep adding 
more courses, things that I 

304
00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:41,040
teach as well as we will 
eventually bring in other 

305
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,000
experts as well to teach some of
those Sunday survival series. 

306
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,920
So that's kind of cool. 
And my brother has a language 

307
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,640
course coming up in a couple 
weekends as well, the Abenaki 

308
00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:52,800
language. 
And then we are already in 

309
00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,160
planning for our Fall Harvest 
Festival, which we did last 

310
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:59,240
year, year before originally was
the Saratoga Native American 

311
00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,240
Festival. 
Big of that we ran the grounds 

312
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,480
of the Performing Arts Center, 
the dance museum, Congress Park.

313
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:09,240
And we after COVID decided to 
run smaller events here at our 

314
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,200
facility, hundreds of people 
versus thousands, but it's much 

315
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:14,880
more intimate. 
And so we will be running that 

316
00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,120
event again in September. 
So always looking forward to 

317
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,080
that. 
Nice, Very nice. 

318
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:27,040
I had a specific question for 
and I think I and now you do. 

319
00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,160
There's other things that you 
offer too right at the document 

320
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,200
that are not necessarily your 
programming, but other people 

321
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,360
using the facilities. 
Yeah, right now we have Clark 

322
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:39,080
Hayward. 
He is runs Adirondack Wilderness

323
00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,680
Medicine. 
He is running a course for for 

324
00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,440
wilderness first responders and 
he also does wilderness first 

325
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,680
aid courses. 
So he is running a class right 

326
00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,960
now doing that. 
So we offer programs like that 

327
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,640
that are, you know, someone else
but related to what we do. 

328
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,400
And then of course we have 
storytelling events with 

329
00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:58,560
ourselves and other guest 
storytellers throughout the 

330
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,400
year. 
We've done basket making classes

331
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:02,840
here. 
We're looking to bring in more 

332
00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:04,440
things like that in the future 
as well. 

333
00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,960
So different, you know, regional
material culture, arts and 

334
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,359
crafts type stuff as well here 
at a document. 

335
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,480
And of course we run school 
field trips here throughout the 

336
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:14,880
year. 
That season's about to start 

337
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,119
season starting in about two 
weeks. 

338
00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,599
We will have 12 different 
schools coming in over the 

339
00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:24,520
course of May and June learning 
about native culture. 

340
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,119
Some are here more to focus on 
wilderness skills, wilderness 

341
00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:30,120
survival, team building, and 
just have a good time in the 

342
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:34,920
natural world. 
Yeah, I, you know, I took the 

343
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,600
wilderness first aid with with. 
Clark, right? 

344
00:17:39,080 --> 00:17:41,800
Yeah, Clark. 
Yeah, yeah, I love that class. 

345
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:44,000
That was great. 
I the, I thought the instruction

346
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,920
was great. 
It was a good time, was fun. 

347
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:48,880
Definitely 2 thumbs up and 
highly recommend. 

348
00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,360
But you know, it's funny you 
said the, the bow drill fire 

349
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,960
making class I that's the one I 
haven't taken yet. 

350
00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:57,400
Jim, out of all the stuff that 
you guys have going on there, I 

351
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,080
have not. 
And how hard is it really? 

352
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:03,800
Depends on what type of material
I let let you use. 

353
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:10,000
So first go round, you know, we 
have a kind of pre cut pretty 

354
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,000
easy. 
You just have to fine tune it 

355
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:15,720
and finish up the kit. 
It's mostly about the technique,

356
00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:20,480
learning how to actually 
navigate the the tools to get 

357
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,000
smoke and eventually get a coal 
and then taking that coal and 

358
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,600
making it in the fire. 
So I try not to make it too hard

359
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:31,080
the first time, you know, get 
down the technique and then 

360
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,000
overtime learn how to do it in 
the woods. 

361
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,360
One of my fondest moments 
teaching survival for boys. 

362
00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,800
Probably a few decades ago, we 
were doing a wilderness 

363
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,400
walkabout and Bojo fire wasn't 
part of this, this class. 

364
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:46,520
We were doing more spark fires 
and things that people could 

365
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:49,080
obtain quickly. 
But everybody was eating lunch. 

366
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,120
I looked around me and there 
were some materials that looked 

367
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:54,000
pretty good. 
So I was able to use a little 

368
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:58,920
bit of Elm bark, a string 
fashion to bow out of a, a Maple

369
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,600
sapling. 
There were some big dead 

370
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:03,480
branches on a pine tree right 
next to me. 

371
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:08,560
I kicked them off, split them. 
So with a knife, I had made a 

372
00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,760
kit and had a fire before people
finished lunch. 

373
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,440
So that was one of my coolest 
moments as a survival 

374
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,600
instructor. 
But I just assessed the area as 

375
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:22,840
a nice dry day and so much was 
around me that I could use that.

376
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,040
I wanted to try it out and and 
it worked quite well in a in a 

377
00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,240
short amount of time so. 
Yeah, it's, it's fascinating, 

378
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,320
those skills and being able to 
have them and use them and, and 

379
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,880
when you put it in the 
respective of how many people do

380
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,080
not have those skills. 
Exactly. 

381
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,800
And, and you know that I know 
that you talk about it in some 

382
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:43,680
of your classes too, just about 
everyday situations where those 

383
00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:47,240
skills can come in handy, right?
Like people, they, they hear 

384
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,800
about bow drill, fire making and
they're like, I'm never going to

385
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:53,200
need that, right? 
I got a lighter. 

386
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,280
But it's like, well, there's, 
there's situations. 

387
00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,280
No, there, there, there, there 
certainly are and building it by

388
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,520
yourself from scratch if you've 
never done it before could be 

389
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,400
hard. 
But if you understand the 

390
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,640
principles, doing one with 
another person where you get one

391
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:12,280
person on either side of a bow, 
2 pushing down. 

392
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:17,000
I have kids come here, teenagers
during field trips, and I will 

393
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:20,840
give them a a finished kit, a 
bigger one made for multiple 

394
00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:23,080
people. 
And if there's three to four 

395
00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,400
groups doing it, at least half 
of the groups get a call and 

396
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,600
that's within 1015 minutes. 
So if you understand the 

397
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,520
principles, especially if 
there's more than one person 

398
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,720
that can work together, it's a 
very obtainable feat by 

399
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,560
yourself. 
Takes a little more practice to 

400
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:43,720
do a solo Bojo cap, but that the
actual science behind it. 

401
00:20:44,360 --> 00:20:47,160
Once you understand that, it's 
not all that hard, especially 

402
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:50,000
with practice. 
Practice, That's the thing 

403
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,600
that's I, I always think about 
the practice side of it when I 

404
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,880
do the, the survival, like the 
fire making, you know, like I do

405
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,880
a class and I'm like, all right,
I got this skills. 

406
00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:01,200
I got these skills in the tool 
bag, but I don't ever practice 

407
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:02,880
them. 
And I'm like, I wonder if I 

408
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,960
would actually be able to do 
what I learned in that class 

409
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,200
without without practice is what
I got to. 

410
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:10,040
Do. 
Yeah, you had. 

411
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,480
It's just like martial arts, you
know, you get rusty for a while.

412
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,320
Yeah, it's, it's it's kind of 
like riding a bike. 

413
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,200
But maybe, maybe you need one 
more training wheel on there for

414
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:23,200
a little while, you know. 
So it's there, but you just need

415
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,960
to reawaken it. 
And the further you separate 

416
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,960
yourself from it, the harder it 
is to to get back to where you 

417
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,480
were before. 
But you still come back quicker 

418
00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:35,560
having already learned it and 
understand it, understood that 

419
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:38,400
skill, whether it be a martial 
art or a survival skill. 

420
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,040
It's the same with me in 
tracking. 

421
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,680
If I haven't been out West 
tracking a while in grizzly 

422
00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:46,200
country, I have to kind of 
remind myself and you know, 

423
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:48,320
understand my surroundings 
again. 

424
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:51,400
And and then in a short amount 
of time, I'm usually back to 

425
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,520
where I was the last time I was 
in that environment. 

426
00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,920
Comes back quick. 
Yeah. 

427
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,000
Yeah, it's fascinating. 
Yeah. 

428
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,320
Yeah. 
So I know, I know we're getting 

429
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,360
short on time, but school, 
school, field trip season coming

430
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:07,240
up. 
Then. 

431
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,480
Then right behind that is summer
camps. 

432
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:11,480
Summer camps start beginning of 
July. 

433
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,600
Summer camps start usually 
mid-july. 

434
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:17,680
They go mid-july to late July, 
late August. 

435
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,680
Like yeah, yeah, right. 
You know, they end a couple 

436
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,960
weeks before school starts. 
So but it's usually, I say 

437
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,120
mid-july, mid August, but it's 
kind of mid-july to a week after

438
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:30,600
mid August. 
So that makes sense. 

439
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:32,680
And we have multiple camps going
out at once. 

440
00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:34,760
And of course we do camps also 
on Spruce Mountain. 

441
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,160
One of our our board members, 
Brian Brumley owned some 

442
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,240
property up there we use. 
So we're able to do some 

443
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,120
satellite programs up there, 
especially with our teenagers. 

444
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:46,280
We do a day camp up there, the 
Not a Waha camp, where it's an 

445
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,040
extended day camp for four days 
up on the mountain. 

446
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,320
And then we also have two 
overnights. 

447
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,640
We have our junior Pathfinders 
and our full Pathfinders program

448
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,600
as well, the juniors for younger
kids. 

449
00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,920
And of course, the full 
Pathfinders is for teenagers, 

450
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:01,720
and that's the more intensive 
tracking and survival 

451
00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:05,840
experience. 
Love it if, Jim, if people want 

452
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,280
to learn more about these summer
camps, they want to sign their 

453
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,720
kids up or some of the survival 
series or the martial arts that 

454
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,280
where do they find you guys 
online? 

455
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,120
Yeah. 
So you go to www.indakina, 

456
00:23:19,120 --> 00:23:28,000
that's NDAKINN, acenter.org, 
indakinacenter.org. 

457
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,480
And you can sign up for 
everything right there. 

458
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,200
Get more info. 
Yeah, it's all online and 

459
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,360
mentions how much room we have 
left. 

460
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:39,360
You know what needs to be done 
to get you in the program and of

461
00:23:39,360 --> 00:23:41,840
course we have. 
You can also e-mail with any 

462
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,280
questions. 
Of course, those questions do 

463
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,440
arise. 
Yes, absolutely, absolutely, 

464
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,640
Jim, as always, I appreciate 
coming on the show man, and 

465
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,680
spend some time with us and our 
listeners and giving the lowdown

466
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,680
on what you guys got going on. 
And you know, I, I, I think I 

467
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,000
say it every show, not to sound 
like a fanboy, but I love what 

468
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,040
you guys do and, you know, 
fascinating family and you doing

469
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,520
a lot of great, really cool 
stuff. 

470
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:05,120
Yeah. 
And one other thing I want to 

471
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:07,360
mention, Speaking of kids, I was
talking about Marcus and a 

472
00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,800
recent adult achievements. 
We also have had kids. 

473
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,240
We had a kid become a, a, a Muay
Thai world champion last year, 

474
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,480
Damian Snyder, who also just won
the New York State wrestling 

475
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,440
Championships through our 
wrestling program. 

476
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,320
So we have kids that are doing 
really awesome things and we 

477
00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:30,720
have three kids going this year 
to the WBC World Championships 

478
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,040
and Muay Thai in Thailand. 
So we're sending 3 kids to that 

479
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,520
this year. 
Kids are doing great things here

480
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,560
and and all levels as well as 
the grown-ups. 

481
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:41,640
Yeah, Love it, Jim. 
Thanks again, man. 

482
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:42,480
I appreciate. 
You're welcome man. 

483
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,000
Yeah, hopefully we'll get you on
again soon.