1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,200 All right. Welcome everyone to Buying 2 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:03,840 Local. I'm your host, Mike Nelson from 3 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:09,160 5 Towers Media, joined today by none other than Alicia Turner 4 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:10,680 from Catamount Consulting. Hi. 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,400 Hi. Thanks for having me. 6 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:14,160 Yeah. Thanks for jumping on. 7 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,200 So we're here to talk about some of the fun things that you're 8 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:22,720 doing with Catamount Consulting, specifically on the ergonomics 9 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:25,000 segment of the service offerings. 10 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,520 But I guess you know, before we get into that though, Alicia 11 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:29,760 may, it might just be helpful for any of our listeners or 12 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,200 readers just to kind of, you know, give a quick overview of 13 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,640 Catamount Consulting and what they do. 14 00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:40,240 And you know, based out of Warrensburg, NY, but obviously 15 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:44,080 some coverage all over the kind of the the Eastern seaboard, I 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,560 guess we could say, right so. Yeah, absolutely. 17 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,120 Well, Catamount's an awesome team. 18 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:51,520 I've been with them for a little over a year now. 19 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,160 And so they provide, they do a lot. 20 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:57,920 So we do safety training on site for companies that need that 21 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,120 presence. We do mobile hearing and drug 22 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,959 testing, provide leadership trainings and you know, kind of 23 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:08,040 mindset motivational things. We're getting into the keynote 24 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:10,760 speaking where we we speak at conferences all over the 25 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,320 country. And then what I do with 26 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,680 Catamount is ergonomics. And so we've launched of this 27 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600 more ergonomics arm wear, we're already partnered with work 28 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:22,840 sites, we're already working with safety and with thought 29 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:26,360 processes and, and something catamount, you know, prides 30 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,160 itself on and we pride ourselves on as we're, we're on the kind 31 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,680 of the cutting edge of things, right? 32 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:32,880 So we're not trying to be reactive. 33 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,520 We're trying to anticipate, we're trying to continually 34 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,640 evolve and learn and apply, you know, the latest neuroscience, 35 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,600 you know, the latest techniques, the latest technology to what we 36 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,440 do. And so we're already at these 37 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,680 work sites, we're already on the ground doing safety. 38 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,280 And so we've partnered together with the ergonomics component 39 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,920 where I actually can go out and we have another colleague, Dr. 40 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,880 Matt Jeffs, who does the same thing that I do. 41 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,440 And we're able to go out and say, hey, these are risks and 42 00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,800 kind of preemptively address some of these things or, or 43 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,280 input custom stretch and flex programs. 44 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,120 And, and actually one of the things we do that no one else is 45 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:08,520 doing is we're quantifying risk. And so we're actually able, 46 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,280 because one of the hardest things in ergonomics is to say, 47 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:14,280 you know, give people a number and that quantitative data, 48 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:16,200 right? It's like this is bad and this 49 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,400 idea is better, but we're able to leverage some technology to 50 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,640 say, hey, listen, this is a risk of X and we're going to improve 51 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:25,480 it through this intervention by X. 52 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:27,880 And so we're able to give people some things they can take to 53 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:30,920 upper management and that they can use to justify some of our 54 00:02:30,920 --> 00:02:32,240 suggestions and our intervention. 55 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,360 So kind of broadly and yes, we're all over the East Coast, 56 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,080 some work in the Midwest, some work up in the Northwest, all 57 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:42,240 over the country is kind of the reach of of Catamount and I'm 58 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,880 the headquarters of their North Carolina office here in Central 59 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,680 North Carolina. Very nice. 60 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:50,840 Yeah. So, you know, I, I feel like we 61 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,640 should probably, well, actually before I actually ask this 62 00:02:54,640 --> 00:02:59,040 question, one of the things like as you talk about all those 63 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:04,000 different services that Catamount offers, I think, you 64 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:06,600 know, originally, obviously they started with a lot of the safety 65 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,120 training like MSHA and OSHA certifications and 66 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:14,760 recertifications and trainings. And so obviously that applies to 67 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,280 the, you know, we'll say the blue collar world, right, as far 68 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:22,480 as contractors and mining and you know, they cover a lot of 69 00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:26,040 construction and trades. And are are you guys working 70 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,240 with other fields outside of that or is that still just the 71 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:31,760 primary focus? No, we're working with all sorts 72 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,880 of I would say primarily the top ones we work with are 73 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:38,760 construction and mining, you know, but we're branching into 74 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,840 the mindset and branching into the ergonomic space. 75 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,600 We're in general industry, we're in logistics, we're in 76 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,760 manufacturing. And so we're really branching 77 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,480 into a lot of these different places, you know, as well as 78 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,600 being able to work with the white collar, you know, 79 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:54,000 workforce in mindset training and even in some of the 80 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,520 ergonomic space and some of the speaking things. 81 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,960 So we're, I would say the heart of cat about is always going to 82 00:03:59,960 --> 00:04:02,680 be the blue collar, right? It's going to be the the men and 83 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,400 women who are the industry leaders, you know, the ones who 84 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,680 are keeping the backbone of America built and safe and 85 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:09,560 thriving. But we're really spreading into 86 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,560 a lot of different spaces, so. OK, Yeah, because that, you 87 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,200 know, obviously from working with you guys, I know a little 88 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,040 bit about the the ergonomics and learning more everyday. 89 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,360 And so, you know, ergonomics obviously. 90 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,920 Yeah, if you're in the construction field and you're, 91 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,520 you know, on your feet all day and moving and different things, 92 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,520 or if you're in manufacturing and you have repetitive moments 93 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,600 or movements, I'm sorry. But also like, you know, 94 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:37,920 healthcare workers that aren't really considered trades and and 95 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,200 blue collar, but still they're on their feet all day. 96 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,800 They're some of them, you know, some of these hospitals are 97 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,400 massive and they're walking miles and miles every single 98 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,120 day. And that can lead to a lot of 99 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,400 issues. You know what, what I was going 100 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:55,120 to say before was, you know, we should probably put some 101 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:59,800 definition on ergonomics, right? Just because like, you know, my, 102 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:03,320 if you weren't in it, you would hear ergonomics and you might 103 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,240 think like the, the Doctor Scholl's pads that you put in 104 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,400 your shoes or something along those lines. 105 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:12,840 And, and this is so much more than orthotics or, or those 106 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:15,000 kinds of things. So can you kind of just give us 107 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:19,240 a, an overview of what you mean by ergonomics and, and, and 108 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,680 specifically in the workplace? Absolutely. 109 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,040 I love that question because you're right, it can mean many 110 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,520 different things. So many different people. 111 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,280 Some people here ergonomics who think of insoles, others think 112 00:05:28,280 --> 00:05:31,320 it's just stretching. Other, others think it's, you 113 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,440 know, I'm going to get laid off because they're going to replace 114 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,360 me with a robot, right? Like it, it means a lot of 115 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:37,200 things. But really at its base, all 116 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,320 ergonomics is, is it's the science of matching the 117 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,560 workplace to the worker. And so anyone, whether I'm 118 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:48,120 working remotely at my computer, it matters how I'm sitting, it 119 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,800 matters how I'm focusing on what I'm doing. 120 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,400 Ergonomics is important to me here. 121 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,520 And just like you said, the hospital worker, the CNA that's 122 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:57,040 moving patients and having to get people out of bed and roll 123 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:59,840 them around and walking miles and miles, it matters a ton to 124 00:05:59,840 --> 00:06:01,560 them. And they may be at different 125 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:03,720 risks than a remote office worker. 126 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,280 But ergonomics it it's broadest is it's just matching the 127 00:06:08,280 --> 00:06:12,440 workplace to the human body. And so I like to say it's like 128 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,960 sitting in a folding chair, like it technically holds you, right? 129 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,000 It's kind of fit to the body. But a chair with armrests and a 130 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:22,040 headrests and a lumbar support and a footrest, that is an 131 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,040 ergonomic chair because it's made to fit the human body 132 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,880 rather than me folding myself into a folding chair, if that 133 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:31,880 kind of makes sense. And so, and then another part of 134 00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:36,680 ergonomics, this is something that Doctor Jeff says, I love 135 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,280 how he's put the put words to this and had kind of as creative 136 00:06:39,280 --> 00:06:40,920 framework. And we use it at Catamount. 137 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:44,920 So it's our cope framework. So when we think of ergonomics, 138 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,320 you know, we're thinking about it in the context of injuries, 139 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,000 right? So it's physical, right? 140 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,040 It's all about the body. And we think of ergonomic 141 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,960 solutions all having to do with the body, right? 142 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,480 So we're really focused in on that P of cope. 143 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,920 So the C in COPE stands for cognitive, our mind, our focus, 144 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:03,920 our distraction. The O is for organizational 145 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,040 ergonomics, you know, policies and procedures, things that the 146 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,880 company is doing, communication. P is the physical ergonomics, 147 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:12,480 which most of us are more familiar with. 148 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,680 And then E is that environmental ergonomics? 149 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,840 Because it's a whole different story if I'm doing a lifting 150 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,760 task in a climate controlled warehouse versus in the middle 151 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,440 of July, I'm driving a truck and I'm doing deliveries in Florida, 152 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,800 right? Or I've been in the -20° freezer 153 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,400 where they're packing and stocking pallets in that kind of 154 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,080 a cold place, right? We're going to run into 155 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,120 different things based on the environment. 156 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:37,000 And so when we're coming in and we're doing these assessments, 157 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:38,720 we're not just looking at the physical. 158 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:41,040 Of course, that's part of it. And our interventions are not 159 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,120 all aimed at the physical, right? 160 00:07:42,120 --> 00:07:43,640 Because what do so many of us have? 161 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,000 Well, you can't see it in our pockets, these little devices 162 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,400 that are taking our attention spans and eroding them. 163 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,360 And so they're actually creating entire new injury categories. 164 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:57,200 The struck by object or equipment is now labeled as a 165 00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,560 distraction injury. So that has nothing to do with 166 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,480 my body or the fact that I didn't stretch and flex. 167 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,040 If I'm distracted and I step out in front of a forklift or I am 168 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,480 not paying attention and I stick my hand into a pinch point. 169 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:11,680 So we're seeing a huge number of work related injuries actually 170 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,120 coming from cognitive issues and distraction. 171 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,680 And so when we're coming in, we're looking comprehensively 172 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,960 and holistically at the job to make sure we're addressing each 173 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:25,440 of those 4 ergonomic components. And you know, I'm just curious, 174 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,240 how did you get into ergonomics? I mean, I know that you, you 175 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:30,720 have a little bit of training, right, A little bit of. 176 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:35,240 Yeah, so though that's a good question too, cuz it's so I am a 177 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:37,520 physical therapist by training. I had my got my doctor of 178 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:39,799 physical therapy degree from UNC Chapel Hill. 179 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,039 And you know, when I was in school, we have to do these 180 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:45,640 clinical affiliations where we get, you know, hands on on the 181 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:48,280 job training. And on my last affiliation down 182 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,160 in Charlotte, I was working with this excellent physical 183 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,320 therapist, Susan Novak, who loved ergonomics. 184 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,840 And so I actually as a student went with her to an industrial 185 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:58,240 site that one of her patients worked at. 186 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,640 Cuz she's like, I need to know what you do. 187 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:02,960 Like this is just, if you think this is an outpatient physical 188 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:06,120 therapist too of her own time, just went with him to work 189 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:07,920 because she wanted to know better how to treat. 190 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,520 I mean, she's just excellent. And so I was like, wait a 191 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:13,760 minute, we can leave the clinic so we can do this. 192 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:15,440 I didn't even know that was possible. 193 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:20,120 And so I was able back in 2014, I had an opportunity through 194 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,440 Martin Marietta to be able to go out into their quarries and do 195 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,200 some prevention, some education and some assessments. 196 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:30,360 And so that's what really got me into the world was number one, I 197 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,320 was exposed to it as a student. And then I worked in the clinic 198 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,520 for years and I worked with a lot of workers compensation 199 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,480 patients who had had, you know, their rotator cuff repair, their 200 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,160 total hip, total shoulder, total knee. 201 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:44,400 And I was rehabbing them back to their jobs and I started talking 202 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,640 to him and I was like, oh man, you know, we can't avoid like 203 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,520 the car accident or the acute trauma is something heavy falls 204 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:52,720 on you, right? We're going to need to to rehab 205 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,040 that. But there's so many of these 206 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:57,800 chronic injuries that over time we're having micro trauma, micro 207 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,160 trauma, micro trauma. And one day we have the last 208 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:01,840 piece of straw and they're putting on their sock in the 209 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:03,320 morning, right? And they hear a pop in their 210 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,640 back and they have to have surgery. 211 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,720 And so I was so frustrated at how I was handcuffed working 212 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:13,560 downstream with someone on back surgery #3 and I thought, if I 213 00:10:13,560 --> 00:10:16,920 could have only gotten to you 20 years ago and showed you how to 214 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,040 do a hip hinge, if only I could have gone in and your company 215 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:23,000 could have spent $200 to raise this thing to waist tight. 216 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:24,960 So you're not bending for seven hours a day, right? 217 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:28,000 Tiny, tiny things that would make such a huge difference. 218 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:30,520 And so when that's the opportunity came, I thought, Oh 219 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,320 my goodness, it was the meeting kind of my passions because I, I 220 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,600 got into PT because I want to help people. 221 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:39,440 I want to help people function at their best capability, their 222 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,960 top tier function, whether they're at work or home or 223 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,080 hobbies or whatever it is. And so being able to be, you 224 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,640 know, upstream, as I call it, you know, most traditional 225 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:49,920 physical therapy is downstream. You're, you're getting people 226 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,760 after they're hurt and it's just a slog uphill all the time. 227 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:57,400 Now I have the opportunity to get in to new hires the day that 228 00:10:57,400 --> 00:10:59,920 they're trained that, you know, and to come in and say, hey, 229 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,200 here's how you bend 18 year old guy, like here's how you 230 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,000 activate your glutes. And what I'm able to do then is 231 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:08,520 40 years down the line, those people aren't going to be on 232 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,320 back surgery #5 so that's kind of how I was able to get plugged 233 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,000 into the ergonomics world. Very cool. 234 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:19,720 It's really fascinating how much you guys with ergonomics and 235 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:24,040 just as a company in general, how focused you are on really 236 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,240 focusing on being proactive and, and future forward and, and 237 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:34,360 trying to really instill ways to prevent injury, increase safety 238 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,680 by all these measures, you know, upstream as you're, you're 239 00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:44,000 calling it, right? Like so, so as you look at what 240 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,960 you're doing with Catamount, what, how are you guys bringing 241 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,480 ergonomics to your clients? Like what does that look like 242 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,640 right now? Yeah, so the fun thing and kind 243 00:11:53,640 --> 00:11:56,320 of the hard thing about what we do is it can look so many 244 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,040 different ways. And so it's it's really unique. 245 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,240 One thing we don't do is the cookie cutter approach when I 246 00:12:01,240 --> 00:12:03,800 don't just have a package thing that I hand them or oh, here's 247 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:06,120 their stretch and flex. Here's this, here's what I would 248 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,960 do because every single work site, every single job is really 249 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,520 going to be different. And so we have a lot of options. 250 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:16,440 One of the big things is people are wanting, you know, ergonomic 251 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,160 assessments to come in and say, Hey, look at these jobs. 252 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,160 Tell us what you think, What could we change? 253 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:26,160 And so that's one Ave. and we, this is where we use computer 254 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:28,280 vision. So kind of like an AI powered 255 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:32,160 tool to be able to do some 3D or some motion capture where we're 256 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:35,200 able to overlay a pretty cool. There's examples of it on our 257 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,600 website, but a little 3D skeleton that's going to turn 258 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,640 red, orange or yellow based on how the joints are impacted. 259 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,800 So we're able to assess, Hey, here's where we think the strain 260 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,280 is on your joints. We have a proprietary Catamount 261 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,080 fatigue index where they'll just get a number because so many 262 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,720 ergonomic assessments, you know, they say high risk and danger 263 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,800 and there's that nocebo language, you know, that we've 264 00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:58,120 talked about before, right? Or if I believe in negative 265 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,040 thought, it's going to have negative outcomes, right? 266 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,560 So we try to avoid that at all costs. 267 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:07,240 And so when the reason that I created this was because I was 268 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,120 so sick of handing someone a Reba or a RULA. 269 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,200 And just to define for the listeners, there's some gold 270 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,560 standard ergonomic assessment tools. 271 00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:18,520 They're from the 80s. They're not the best, but it's 272 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,120 what kind of the best we've got right now. 273 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:24,200 But the Reba is the rapid entire body assessment and it's scored 274 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,160 out of 15 points and it's based on a posture during a task. 275 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,360 And there's the RULA, the rapid upper limb assessment scored out 276 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:32,240 of seven. Also, it's more focused on the 277 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,080 upper extremity, but you're basically look at the worst 278 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,040 posture someone assumes during a task and you calculate the 279 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:38,880 score. OK. 280 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,800 So again, it's it's all posture. We don't take the C, the O or 281 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,960 the E into consideration. It's purely P, but it's at least 282 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,800 somewhere to start. But what we get is you get this 283 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,520 dark red, you're high risk. This is a immediate action 284 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:52,840 level. And what it does is it makes 285 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,160 people think my, is my job super unsafe, right? 286 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,800 And the companies are very not happy with me for coming in and 287 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,480 instilling fear. And then also, if a worker 288 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:04,920 knows, hold on a second, they know my job is high risk and 289 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:05,960 they're not doing anything right? 290 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,080 It just breeds, it breeds ickiness. 291 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,600 And then if I know that the company knows and they're not 292 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,200 going to do anything, a moral conundrum for me there as well. 293 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,040 You know, So what we came up with with the Catamount fatigue 294 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,880 Index is we still take the Reba, we take the RULA, we take that 295 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,160 Nyash lifting equation, but we factor them all in and we come 296 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,480 up with just a percentage and we say, hey, listen, this is your 297 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:30,160 relative risk of fatigue. Here's the main joints impacted. 298 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,960 So look, I looked at this task and we've got an you're an 8.6 299 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,360 out of 10 on the fatigue index. OK, So I'm not saying, Oh my 300 00:14:36,360 --> 00:14:39,120 gosh, you're absolutely going to get a shoulder injury from this. 301 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,680 No, but there's going to be some fatigue and tiredness in that 302 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:42,800 shoulder. There's going to be some fatigue 303 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,600 in the low back. I'm coming in with this 304 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,560 recommendation and I can tell you it's going to reduce this 305 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,600 risk, this relative risk, this fatigue index by 20%, right? 306 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:53,960 So we're able, when we come into the jobs, that's what we're 307 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,520 giving them. So we're saying, I'm not just 308 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,560 slapping high risk on it and walking away. 309 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,800 And I'm not handing you, this is what I did way back when I got 310 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,000 started. I would hand them these big 311 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,320 thick packets with like a million ideas and just be like, 312 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,480 and it's so overwhelming to everybody, right? 313 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,240 So we're able to streamline and prioritize and say, hey, let's 314 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,360 take our highest fatigue areas, let's look at the cost, here's 315 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,040 your ROI on my recommendations, trying to those things matter. 316 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,960 And so we're doing that. But what I've noticed is if I 317 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,200 just come in and I make my recommendations and I do the 318 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,760 assessments, I know they're true and they're right and they're 319 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,880 good. And sometimes management knows, 320 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,600 but it does not translate to the frontline. 321 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,440 And So what I found that is so essential and it's something 322 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,520 that is in Catamount's blood is that education. 323 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:39,560 So if I come in, I'm not just coming in and saying here's how 324 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,520 you do it. Go bye, go do this. 325 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,440 I'm telling them why I'm getting in front of the workers. 326 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:47,120 If train the trainer is an option to do too, where we we 327 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,960 try to equip the trainers. If as much as I can get in front 328 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:52,920 of the front line workers, I'm like, hey guys, here's a picture 329 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,320 of your spine. Here's what happens to your disc 330 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,360 when you're bending all the time. 331 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,000 And here's why we recommend extension because to get a room 332 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,160 full of blue collar workers to put their hands on their hips 333 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:04,480 and lean back, it's difficult. But once they see what happens 334 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,000 to their disc when they do it, they're all they're all about 335 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:08,520 it, right? They're all about leaning back 336 00:16:08,520 --> 00:16:12,120 because they understand the why. And so that's my huge passion. 337 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,080 I get excited and I talk real fast, but when I see that light 338 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,680 bulb come on for people and they get the why, they're going to be 339 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:20,440 all over it. They're going to do these things 340 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,640 because they understand the impact it's having and it 341 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,320 catamount we are all all about the why. 342 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,240 We're not just coming in and saying do this thing because I 343 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,040 said so or do this or do that. You know, no, we need to win 344 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,640 people over by motivating them and telling them about the why. 345 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:37,560 And so that that's really kind of our heart behind all of it. 346 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,360 But to answer your question, better trainings, ergonomic 347 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,120 assessments, custom stretch and flex programs, interventions, 348 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:46,800 new hire training, kind of you name it. 349 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,960 We're able to go from basic to a, you know, white glove type 350 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,480 service for an ergonomics program. 351 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,080 Yeah. Now I so tell me about the 352 00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,080 stretch and flex, 'cause I know that's obviously that's 353 00:16:56,080 --> 00:16:57,960 something that we've talked about quite a bit. 354 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,680 And I know it's something that as a company, Catamount talks 355 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:05,040 about a lot and it sounds like it's something that is 356 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:08,839 accessible. We'll say, yeah, so, so give us 357 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:10,680 give us the rundown on the stretch and flex. 358 00:17:10,839 --> 00:17:15,040 Absolutely. So I love stretch and flexes and 359 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,920 catamounts is unique because we've done it in like a three 360 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:21,040 tiered system. So it kind of got a beginner 361 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,760 intermediate in advance because there's nothing worse than 362 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,560 you're just having to do the same exact thing every single 363 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,400 morning. And then it becomes habit, it 364 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,960 becomes routine. And so you know, theirs are 365 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,160 based on a lot of different, you know, yoga type poses. 366 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,480 We're incorporating multiple muscle groups, but what we've 367 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,520 also done is we've incorporated breath work to help with that 368 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,080 mind body connection, to help with that cognitive ergonomics 369 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,640 to get us focused. We've incorporated balance 370 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,800 because that's a huge area that's left unaddressed in 371 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,880 almost every safety program. Yet balance deficiencies are a 372 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,880 huge cause of slip strips and falls of different kinds of 373 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,000 injuries. And so we incorporate balance in 374 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,560 there as well. And so we're trying to, if I get 375 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,040 10 to 15 minutes with your employees in the morning, I'm 376 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,120 going to try to hit as many places as I can. 377 00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,680 And we also with the stretch and flex, we're trying to do more 378 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:09,280 dynamic movements, you know, so there's a static stretch, right? 379 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,440 Hold for 15 seconds, hold for 15 seconds, Sure. 380 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,920 But if I can incorporate some active movements and you know, 381 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,960 do some, some neural releases, do do a median nerve glide in 382 00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,000 there to get the nerves moving, get that brain body connection 383 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,280 firing, tighten the glutes, tighten my transverse abdominis, 384 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,240 all of those deep stabilizers, getting them activated in the 385 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:32,040 mornings. We're doing a whole lot more 386 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:33,800 than just a stretch and flex, right? 387 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,400 I don't really love the term stretch and flex as we're really 388 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:40,680 doing a whole body activation from the brain to the feet, 389 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,600 right, for balance. And so that's what we're doing 390 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,040 when we come in with companies and there is kind of a standard 391 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,240 flow that they've used before with companies. 392 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:50,720 But what we're doing more and more is we're creating custom. 393 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,960 Because if I'm working with a group of office worker ladies, 394 00:18:55,360 --> 00:18:58,000 right, who are mostly in their 40s to 50s, I'm going to have 395 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,160 them doing a very different set than if I'm with a group of 396 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:04,240 construction workers ranging from 20 to 60 that work outside 397 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:06,560 predominantly, right? So we're trying to create these 398 00:19:06,560 --> 00:19:09,440 custom programs that, that are progressive. 399 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:11,440 So that's kind of our in a nutshell. 400 00:19:12,040 --> 00:19:15,480 Yeah, I, you know, I'm just curious. 401 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,480 It's funny because I'm thinking about this and I'm like, man, 402 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,800 I've been on my fair share of job sites over the last 25 years 403 00:19:22,120 --> 00:19:24,920 and I don't think I've ever seen any of those men or women 404 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,040 warming up before starting to do their job for the day. 405 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:32,880 So I is, is that kind of like what you're suggesting and 406 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,600 recommending though, is that when people are, are, are they 407 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,840 doing it before they start their shift? 408 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:40,800 Are they doing it throughout their shift? 409 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,480 Like how does it work from that standpoint? 410 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,800 Yes, yes, all of it. All. 411 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:50,480 Of it all of it. So that's another thing is I so 412 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,920 like you said, most job sites are doing nothing so I am never 413 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,680 going to say like you're only doing stretch and flex in the 414 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,920 mornings that's still great. But the very best thing is I 415 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,200 stretch for 15 minutes and then I go sit in a loader for four 416 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,320 hours and then I have lunch and then I get back in my loader. 417 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:10,960 Do you think my stretches from 7637 AM are doing anything right 418 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:13,400 now? No, my recommendation and this 419 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,720 is something else that when I come in and I do the education, 420 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,160 we add in these micro. Breaks where you take 60 421 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,720 seconds, anyone can do it. And we have you know, special 422 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,720 stuff for equipment operators where hey, every two hours I 423 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:26,400 want you to get out of your loader and I want you to walk 424 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,960 three times around it, do 3 back bends, do 3 stretches and climb 425 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,080 right back in it. And what that does is it's just 426 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,320 enough to get blood flow to these stagnant places. 427 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:36,040 It's going to turn muscles on that we're off. 428 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:39,840 And so it's, it's are the favorite PT answer. 429 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:41,920 You know, we joke is it depends, right? 430 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,120 But for the most part, I, I think doing it as much as 431 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,720 possible. If your job isn't crazy 432 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,560 repetitive and you're moving all differently, like you're a 433 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,080 mechanic, right? And you're going to be in one 434 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,960 position. My big thing I teach people is, 435 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:59,080 you know, we're not in a perfect world where we can stop every 436 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,200 awkward posture, right? Because awkward postures are a 437 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,120 risk factor for muscular skeletal disorder. 438 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,720 But what I can teach you is to reverse your posture. 439 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,200 So we might have the stretch influx in the morning to wake 440 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,880 everything up, and then we're going to do it again after 441 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,240 lunch. But throughout your day with 442 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:15,040 this education component, I know that if I'm in an awkward 443 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,120 posture where I am crouched on my knees, leaning to the left, 444 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,920 twisting my head to the right, and I'm working on something 445 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,720 that the minute I come up from that, I'm going to turn my head 446 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,400 to the left, right. I'm going to, I'm going to lean 447 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,360 the opposite direction. I'm going to stand up, I'm going 448 00:21:28,360 --> 00:21:30,400 to stretch my knees out and I'm going to go into lumbar 449 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,640 extension. So now I'm reversing those 450 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,720 movements rather than just I'm going to stand up straight after 451 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:38,880 I do it, I'm actually going to go the other way to kind of 452 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,560 reset, get the blood flowing, get the muscle length back to 453 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:44,720 normal. Because what we see so much is, 454 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,640 you know, people bend and bend and bend and then they stand up 455 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:49,320 straight or they're gripping this tool. 456 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:53,600 And what happens is we move into an anaerobic environment, a lack 457 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:56,920 of oxygen when our muscle is just clenched and clenched and 458 00:21:56,920 --> 00:22:00,120 clenched without a break. And so just unclenching it isn't 459 00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,760 always enough. We actually need to move into 460 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:04,920 some extension. We need to do some contract 461 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,320 relaxed behavior to flush out the waste products of that 462 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,880 anaerobic process, get oxygen rich, blood flowing back in 463 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:15,280 there. Because what we see so much is 464 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,480 things like carpal tunnel, you know, some rotator cuff issues, 465 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,920 they're caused by prolonged deprivations are a lack of blood 466 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,240 flow. So the more we can keep the 467 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,800 blood flowing and there's many ways to do that, the better to 468 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,040 prevent injury. So it's, I know these are very 469 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,200 long answers to very short questions, but that's kind of, 470 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:37,440 you know, we're trying. And I, I try to teach people 10 471 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,320 different ways to skin the cat, right? 472 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,360 Because I'm somebody that the reason I love ergonomics. 473 00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:45,240 And you know, I got to the point where I was dreading going into 474 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,800 the clinic every day because I'm like, it's the same thing. 475 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,120 It's the same thing every day. I mean, I loved it and I loved 476 00:22:50,120 --> 00:22:53,640 helping people, but as I learn more about how I'm wired, I like 477 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:56,960 to bounce around from thing to thing and project to project and 478 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,080 have, you know, new things. So I tried to approach, you 479 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,560 know, jobs the same way, say, hey, if you want to kind of 480 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,680 bounce, here's some ways you can squeeze. 481 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,480 Here's a few stretches you can do, here's a few activations you 482 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,760 can do, here's some breathing. And it's all going to accomplish 483 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,160 the same thing, which is making sure my brain and body are 484 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,600 connected. I'm focused, I'm present where I 485 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,360 am. I'm not in automatic mode 486 00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:21,320 mentally. I am in my, you know, the good 487 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,360 part of my focused brain and I've got blood flowing 488 00:23:24,360 --> 00:23:27,440 throughout my whole body and I we, I teach them ways, You know, 489 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:29,680 it's going to be different for someone that operates equipment 490 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:32,680 and grips the controls that controls and sits versus 491 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,880 somebody who's welding and, you know, standing and holding that 492 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,360 that device so. Yeah, and listen for the record 493 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:41,840 on podcasts. We love long answers. 494 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,680 OK, well, there you go. It's your lucky day. 495 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,920 You know, it it, it makes my job way easier as an interviewer if 496 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,480 you're given long answers. So it's, it's really 497 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,720 interesting. The whole thing about the 498 00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:57,560 stretch and flex is kind of interesting to me just because, 499 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,080 you know, I don't know, I don't know if it's like humans as a 500 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,720 species or our culture, but we're, we're so reactive and 501 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:10,360 it's usually we, we, we wait until we have a pain so awful 502 00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:13,920 that we, we can't do what we normally do, like sit, like use 503 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,240 the example sitting in the loader. 504 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,800 You know, it's like I, I'm not going to do anything about any 505 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,960 of this until it hurts me all day every day to be sitting in 506 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,280 the lower and in, in the loader and, and 'cause I got lower back 507 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:28,440 pain or 'cause my, you know, my hip flexors are tight or 508 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:32,000 whatever it is. And it's just, I do you, do you 509 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,040 find that, is that a challenge with what you guys do is trying 510 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,320 to get people to be more proactive and like, hey, don't 511 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,560 wait until you're sitting in the loader for 8 hours a day in 512 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,120 pain. Like we can just avoid that 513 00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,000 whole situation altogether. No, that's, that's a really 514 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,160 great question. And yes, absolutely we run up 515 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,320 into that. But so a phrase that I love, 516 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,920 it's not mine, but like motion is lotion, right? 517 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,600 And we think about motion, any kind of movement, you know, your 518 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,600 best posture is your next posture. 519 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:00,040 The best thing you can do is move. 520 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,800 I try to drill these things into people's heads And yes, we do 521 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,840 run into that a lot where there's, there's also company 522 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,560 cultures of grin and bear it. This is part of it. 523 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,280 This is deal with it. You're, you're weak. 524 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,240 Are you really going to sit here and complain about pain? 525 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,800 Some people hide stuff. A study actually just came out 526 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:22,120 from it was a national study on musculoskeletal disorders. 527 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,640 I can't remember the, the name of the organization. 528 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:29,440 It's a huge thing, but 30% of people in pain at work don't 529 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,720 report it. That is huge. 530 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,120 And so the productivity, that's a big number. 531 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,240 So if you think about the productivity that we have no 532 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:42,960 idea that is being lost out there of 30% of people are not 533 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:44,880 reporting it. I think it's the National Safety 534 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:46,000 Council that just came out with it. 535 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,520 But what what happened to me is when I went out onto job sites 536 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:52,480 and this is companies that have excellent safety, there is safe 537 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:53,880 place for people to report, right? 538 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,040 It's not, there's no punitive stuff if you report an injury. 539 00:25:57,160 --> 00:25:59,400 And I'd be out there with the safety manager and people would 540 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,200 come up to me and say like, my knee is killing, my shoulder's 541 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,160 killing me, my neck is killing me, my back is killing me. 542 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:05,960 And the safety guy's jaw is hanging. 543 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:08,640 He's like, we had no idea. And I was like, half of your 544 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,560 people are in agony. And they're like, what? 545 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,560 They'd have no clue about it, you know? 546 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,280 But I'm kind of the safe. And I'm like, well, I can't, I 547 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,240 can't assess and treat you because then we're getting into 548 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:18,760 recordable, reportable territory. 549 00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:20,720 But here are some generic stretches. 550 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,880 So I think educating the management that hey, giving them 551 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:28,160 these numbers, telling them these facts and then having a 552 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,800 culture that says, you know, 'cause like I talked about 553 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:36,360 before, chronic injuries are far and above and away the most, you 554 00:26:36,360 --> 00:26:38,280 know, high cause of musculoskeletals and days away 555 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,320 from work, work related musculoskeletal disorders, 556 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:42,000 right? Like there's the acute accidents 557 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,560 and then really the most of it is chronic micro trauma. 558 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,160 So there's something that we say, you know, in the PT world, 559 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:53,080 you are sub symptomatic. Damage is occurring, problems 560 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,880 are stacking up, but our bodies are phenomenal at compensation. 561 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,280 Okay, they it'll shift load and it'll do this and it'll do that. 562 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,360 But then we talked about that straw that breaks the camels 563 00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:06,440 back that all of a sudden one day, 9 out of 10, I am 564 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,240 symptomatic. And not just symptomatic, I'm 565 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,880 disabled, I can't work, I cannot do my job. 566 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,960 And so I'm out of work. I'm in a surgery, I'm in rehab 567 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:18,200 for 6 to 8 weeks. And so nobody wants to go 568 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:19,760 through all of that. And so I think it's that 569 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:23,480 communicating upfront that, hey, listen, I'm not here to have 570 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,320 workers comp cases suddenly go driven through the woodwork. 571 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,240 But I want to encourage you guys to know this. 572 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,000 These are the risk factors for WMS, DS, work related 573 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,840 musculoskeletal disorders. These are, you know, repetition, 574 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,680 contact, stress, forced vibration and awkward postures. 575 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:41,120 You know, those are the physical ones. 576 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:46,200 And how can we in each of these areas educate the workforce to 577 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:50,280 reduce those risks, to be aware because shoot, I would always 578 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,880 tell people 75% of my job is done. 579 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:56,000 If you can look around with a fresh set of eyes and think, 580 00:27:56,120 --> 00:27:59,880 huh, could we store those here? We have racks where we store 581 00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:01,920 that over here. I went to this site and they had 582 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:03,360 this. Can we get that right? 583 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:08,000 I so many of my ideas come from the guys and gals that are doing 584 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,400 it 8/10/12 hours a day. I have such a huge respect for 585 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,920 the man. Just the, the work ethic and the 586 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,680 grit in these men and women. And I learned from them. 587 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,840 What have they tried? What's worked, you know, what 588 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,760 hasn't worked? Suggestions. 589 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,640 And so, you know, really being collaborative and able to come 590 00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:27,640 up with solutions. And I think too, when they see 591 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,480 me out there, you know, I have climbed a ladder at a rock 592 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,080 quarry in Nova Scotia in the middle of winter. 593 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,440 I have been in the freezer. I've been out in the heat in 594 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,520 South Florida pouring sweat, carrying lumbar supports. 595 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:42,680 And but you know, I've, I've been strapped into the buddy 596 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,360 seat of a haul truck bouncing along. 597 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,360 I've, you know, I've, I've gotten out there and I think 598 00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:48,560 there's some respects where I can speak there like language 599 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:51,360 and say like, I've not, I'm not just coming from an ivory tower 600 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:54,480 issuing mandates from on high of, of a perfect universe, 601 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,000 right? No, I've, I've done it. 602 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,200 I'm involved in research with the University of Florida. 603 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,800 We're on doing all sorts of ergonomics research and 604 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:03,240 preventing low back pain. And so I'm trying, you know, as 605 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,080 much as I can, I'm trying to equip myself to be able to speak 606 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,320 their language, but then translate it into the language 607 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,040 for the C-Suite and translate it into the language for the 608 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,480 researchers that are coming up with the the studies that are 609 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:18,160 going to affect in 10 years what we're doing right now. 610 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:22,040 And so that's kind of how we are coming at things with with 611 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:24,200 everybody. And so there are still going to 612 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:25,480 be people who don't get on board. 613 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,000 But that's the other reason that the employer can say, oh, well, 614 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,480 I don't care if you don't want to do it, you're going to do it. 615 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:35,080 And another thing I like to try is I like to have a different 616 00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:39,480 person lead it every week because that forces ownership. 617 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:41,560 You have to, you know, I want them, I, I talk to them. 618 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:42,880 I want you to correct the stretches. 619 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,080 You know, I leave a book with descriptions. 620 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,320 I make sure I say, hey, if someone's having pain here, 621 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:49,520 here's modifications you can make with this stretch. 622 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,080 Or, you know, here's what we red flags, right? 623 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,400 If you ever have you do a neck movement and numbness shoots 624 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,280 them into your hand. Like don't, don't do that. 625 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:57,560 We're not wanting to increase pain. 626 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,280 But I, I've found that about having people kind of take 627 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:03,360 ownership and they tease each other and they have fun with it. 628 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:10,160 I've seen buy in from people you would have never, never thought. 629 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:13,240 And I have a exercise called the hip hinge that I would do. 630 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:15,680 It's like a sciatic nerve glide where I'd have people squat in a 631 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,120 hinge with their hands out in front of them. 632 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,960 So they all started calling it the Harley rider, you know, And 633 00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,400 so they would have so much they like get in your Harley stands 634 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,600 and they'd be hysterical and they'd be laughing. 635 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,600 And you know, what it does too, is it starts off the day with 636 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,520 camaraderie. It starts off the day with a 637 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,600 focus on safety. Even if you're not saying it, 638 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,960 the very fact that the company has set aside time, carved it 639 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:39,720 out to give you guys time to do these warmups. 640 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,520 And then what it also does is it fosters a sense of community 641 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,440 because a lot of time, you know, you go to work and you're, 642 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,600 you're off to your separate workstations, right? 643 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,480 Equipment operators and the, the guys inside the plant might 644 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,640 never intermingle, right? Or the guys that are in, in the 645 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,400 distribution center, right, they're going to go to their 646 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,440 part and the other guys are going to go to packaging and 647 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,240 some are in shipping. So it brings everybody together. 648 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,800 And that's another really cool thing is, you know, the more 649 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,680 that we can foster that community and that 650 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,200 communication, it, it has an impact on the culture. 651 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:11,000 And that's an intangible that is worth its weight in gold, right? 652 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:14,600 To have a safety culture and a high morale and an organization 653 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,000 and a stretch and flex program is something that does raise 654 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:19,080 morale. It just does. 655 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,120 Yeah, that it, it's well, and I, I, I have to assume that there's 656 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,000 a, you know, of course these are these are all businesses. 657 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,720 And so the bottom line is, is always, you know, in our mind's 658 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,000 eye as far as what we're doing and what we're having team 659 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,240 members doing. And I have to assume that there 660 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:42,800 is a way for you guys to show like, hey, here's what workers 661 00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,480 comp and employee injury and these things cost you. 662 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,040 And yes, there is a cost associated with paying your team 663 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,200 members to do these stretch. And you know, like, I just think 664 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,240 about like, yeah, I've got 10 employees doing this. 665 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,240 They're making 25 bucks an hour. That means I'm paying 250 bucks 666 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,760 an hour for people to to, to stretch and flex. 667 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,880 But on the other side of it, there's a really a cost savings 668 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,120 as well as it's just good for your employees so that you know, 669 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:10,520 you want to take care of your team. 670 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:12,920 Is it, is that fair? Is, I mean, is there a, is there 671 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:15,040 a way for you guys to be able to show that benefit? 672 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,760 Yeah, absolutely. And that you can get, we can get 673 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:19,680 into the weeds with it too. But you know, with an injury, 674 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,360 there's direct costs and then there's indirect costs. 675 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:24,560 So the direct costs are really easy to calculate, right. 676 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:28,080 What are the actual scans and doctor's visits and you know, 677 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,760 time away from work and you know, the sickness and absence 678 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:33,400 leave pay, all those things are the direct cost. 679 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,400 But then the indirect costs are having to train someone else, 680 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,240 right? And a loss of productivity and a 681 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,800 decrease in morale. And you know, all there's, they 682 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:45,200 say that, you know, indirect costs are often 200% or 250% of 683 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,760 direct cost. So one number that's staggering. 684 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,640 And this is true. One muscle strain on average has 685 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,960 a direct and indirect cost of $21,000. 686 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,640 This is a strain, like a back strain, right? 687 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,680 This isn't surgery. This isn't, but like one strain 688 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,000 is what that's what it adds up to. 689 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:06,000 So that's a really easy number to come in and say hello. 690 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,080 If doing this program can prevent one back sprain, your 691 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,640 ROI is automatically, you know, 400% or whatever, you know, 692 00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:15,880 whatever. It depends on what we're coming 693 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,320 in to do. But that's also how we calculate 694 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,840 and we're giving people, hey, this is going to be your return 695 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:25,040 on investment. Like the actual hard numbers and 696 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,320 one thing that we've run into and this is probably the worst 697 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,200 companies that I've had a relationship with are, you know, 698 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,400 a lot of times like more middle management brings me in, right, 699 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:39,880 like AEH and S or safety manager HR, that kind of thing. 700 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,840 They see they're they are intimate with the front lines. 701 00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,360 A lot of them came from the front lines. 702 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,320 So they know what these guys and gals are doing every single day. 703 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,600 So they bring me in and we create these programs, but then 704 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:53,000 we've got the upper management who is unfortunately very 705 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,680 removed from the day-to-day. They're staring at the red, 706 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,040 they're staring at the black. That's all they can see. 707 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,040 You know, So there was one company I worked for who it was 708 00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:03,600 just atrocious what was going on. 709 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:09,199 They were having 46% turnover. They were paying $17 million a 710 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,320 year in new hire training, right? 711 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,400 And they were just hemorrhaging and then that then they were 712 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,560 having injuries just, and they had, unfortunately, they were 713 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,480 set up to be so successful. There were so many good and 714 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:21,480 possible things. And so they brought me in and I, 715 00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,840 I spent a long time, I came in and did a full observation and I 716 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,760 said, hey, you guys, I could put this program together for you. 717 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,120 And we'd roll it out over the course of the next 18 months, 718 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,080 you know, and I think it had like a $35,000 price tag. 719 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,920 But this is a plant with 1700 employees, right? 720 00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,639 This was a massive, massive undertaking. 721 00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,080 And it was also an 8 hour drive away from me. 722 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,080 So I was like, listen, I will come in and we will. 723 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,040 And we addressed every barrier. We were going to do everything 724 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,800 and they were writing $17 million checks and I was like, 725 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,679 we will spread out 35 grand over a year and a half to do this for 726 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:54,440 you. And they're like too expensive 727 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,040 now, you know, So they are so disconnected. 728 00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,920 And I knew what the results would have because one thing is 729 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,880 when I, when they bring me in to walk around and just do like a 730 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,480 tour, people are like, who is that? 731 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:07,560 Who's that Lady? What's she doing? 732 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,760 And I'm like, hi, I introduce myself and this is nothing 733 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:10,600 punitive. I'm here. 734 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:12,640 They brought me in as an ergonomic specialist to come in 735 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,640 and try to make your job safer. You should see people's faces. 736 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,320 I mean, I love it. I they're like, are you serious? 737 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,440 They would pay to bring you in and there's gratitude. 738 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,440 And so I kid you not, there was, this is, this isn't that same 739 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:26,760 facility I was describing to you. 740 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,080 I was there for like 2 days. It was so big. 741 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:30,760 I would try to tour multiple shifts. 742 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,480 And I had walked by this area that was just like really 743 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:34,800 cluttered. It was a trip hazard. 744 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,240 It wasn't good. You know, I was taking pictures 745 00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:38,000 all over the place. And when I came back the next 746 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,040 day, they flagged me down and they said, hey, we look, we 747 00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,520 clean this up and we reorganized this whole area to make it 748 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:46,400 ergonomically safer. This was me on a tour. 749 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:51,120 So that just shows the power of bringing somebody in and saying, 750 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:53,440 hey, we're caring about this and we're putting eyes on this. 751 00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:56,080 They're they're taking their own initiative to make something 752 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,800 safer. And they created a great 753 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:00,400 solution. And I was like, Yep, that is 754 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,360 amazing. And now we've not only we're not 755 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,600 just reducing it, we've eliminated there is no more slip 756 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,440 and trip hazard because you've gotten these things up off the 757 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,880 floor. You know, So what I have found 758 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,480 is it's absolutely crucial to have that white to Gray to blue 759 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:18,000 collar communication stream open because if these guys know what 760 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:20,560 these guys are doing and this one can effectively go back and 761 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:24,080 forth, we're going to have so much greater success in it. 762 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,040 And what we've found is by using some of these numbers because 763 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:30,520 that's what speaks, right? That's the common language we 764 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:32,960 all share are the numbers are those hard data? 765 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,760 So when we can come in and show them, hey, this is what your 766 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:39,640 risk is. These this is what is happening. 767 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:43,600 And I'm coming in and I'm making a, this would cost $750 to buy 768 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,360 this little thing, but it will reduce your risk by 80%. 769 00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:50,240 You know, then they're way more likely to say, holy moly, OK, 770 00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:51,880 and have those numbers in front of them. 771 00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,400 And they're not perfect, but it, it really does bridge some of 772 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,800 those communication barriers and gaps between, you know, that the 773 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:00,680 people who are on the front lines, the people who aren't. 774 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,840 Yeah, I know we're getting short on time, but I, you had 775 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,880 mentioned breath work before and I'm a real geek for breath work. 776 00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:14,840 And I know that it I know that you guys are kind of bringing it 777 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,200 in into a few different areas of Catamount. 778 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:20,480 But it, it obviously you know, that mind body connection, it 779 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:22,840 plays directly in with what you're doing with ergonomics. 780 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,800 And I'm just, you know, it's, it's, it's interesting because I 781 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,800 know I saw Scott and Stacy do a talk the other day and they were 782 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,080 talking about breath work. And it was in my mind, I was 783 00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:38,200 like, uh oh, they're, they're going to the woo side of things 784 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,040 here, you know, and they're talking about breath work, you 785 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,960 know, and I was like, I wonder how this is going to be received 786 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,240 by this crew. And it was, it was cool because 787 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,280 like I saw a lot of people start taking notes and like be very 788 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,320 interested in the breath, breath work side of things, which is 789 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,520 very refreshing to, to see and to, to witness. 790 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,200 Tell me a little bit about how you guys are bringing that in 791 00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:05,560 and, and kind of making it more, you know, real world. 792 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,080 Like, you know, like up up until the last few years, I feel like 793 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,960 breath work was something that only people at yoga studios and 794 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,080 that burned a lot of incense really talked about. 795 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:18,360 And, you know, now it's, it's becoming more and more relevant. 796 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,520 The military's adopting things like box breathing. 797 00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,240 You know, there's a lot more science and studies coming out 798 00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:28,240 about about breathwork, so give me a little bit about how you 799 00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,640 guys are implementing that and how you're getting it to be 800 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,160 accepted. I think is interesting as well. 801 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,080 No, absolutely. And you're very right. 802 00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,440 And it has always been woo and it's really about how we frame 803 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,560 it. And so framing it as this is 804 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,240 neuroscience, right? So, I mean, different crowds, 805 00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:45,360 we're going to frame it differently. 806 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,960 You know, one thing we we've joked about is, you know, when 807 00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,080 you're in these blue collar, you're not wanting to talk 808 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:53,320 about, well, the breath and the the connection of your butt. 809 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,160 No, but. Hey this. 810 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,240 This is the thing done in martial arts, right? 811 00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,760 This is the way to control. This is the way to harness, 812 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:01,680 increase strength. This is the way to kind of 813 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,800 hijack the brain systems. And it's a biohack, right? 814 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,360 Or a neurohack. People really respond to those 815 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,280 kind of things and it when we talk about how we connect a 816 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,400 distraction to being run over or, or having these injuries and 817 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:18,440 we say, you know, everyone can relate to smartphones and 818 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,360 everyone can relate to degraded attention spans and Ding, Ding, 819 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,440 Ding, right. So when we say, hey, what this 820 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,000 does is we have an automatic, you know, kind of that robot 821 00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,040 part of our brain. And then we have our salient 822 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,360 part of our brain where we're we're present and we're focused 823 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,640 and we're grounded and breath work is a vehicle to get us out 824 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,880 of 1 into the other. Or we've actually have studies 825 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,600 where pain is reduced when we do this box breathing. 826 00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,160 We're actually able to reduce anxiety, we're able to bring our 827 00:39:45,160 --> 00:39:49,240 blood pressure down by doing some of these things. 828 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,040 And so communicating again, not just how we breathe, but why, 829 00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:56,720 What is it doing in our mind? What is it doing in our body and 830 00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,800 how does it tie in exact? Why would a loader operator care 831 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:02,760 whatsoever? But if he's been to the doctor 832 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:05,440 and he's got a 2 pack a day habit and four mountain Dews a 833 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,400 day and they've been talking to him about his blood pressure, 834 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,360 you know, we're going to be able to say, hey, OK, well we need to 835 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:11,680 stop that. We need to get some better 836 00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,280 vending machines and we need to address cardiovascular fitness, 837 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:16,440 which we do all of that, but at the same time. 838 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,920 Hey, do you get stressed? You know, is this a stressful 839 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,760 work environment? And do you find yourself making 840 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,040 decisions you wouldn't ordinarily make or, or 841 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,560 forgetting things? Here's a way to prevent that. 842 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,000 And when I say I just have people, I say, hey, just try it. 843 00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:30,520 Would you just try it one time for me? 844 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,640 And people are like, oh, I feel better, I feel calmer. 845 00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:39,920 And so I think experience always beats an explanation, it beats 846 00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,400 education. So making it experiential, 847 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,880 having them feel it, having them experience it, you know, that's 848 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,600 worth me talking for two hours, right? 849 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:48,880 If we can just all do it together. 850 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:50,840 So that's kind of, that's at least my approach. 851 00:40:50,840 --> 00:40:52,480 I know Scott and Stacy might have a little bit of a 852 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,640 different, you know, how they approach it with more of the 853 00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:56,840 mindset mastery and the leadership type skills. 854 00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:59,960 But that's how I tie it into the the cognitive. 855 00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:02,480 We tie it into the organizational by making us do 856 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,160 it as a group. It's of course physical by its 857 00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,960 very nature. And then we're going to do it a 858 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,560 little different based on the environment we're in. 859 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:09,680 Amazing. I love it. 860 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:15,520 Yeah, I, I think, I don't think I mean, I know that like breath 861 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,920 work is it's like the it's how you hack your nervous system, 862 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:20,000 right. Exactly. 863 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,040 So many different things just by breathing in a different way 864 00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,760 that can give you a benefit depending on the situation, 865 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:28,880 whether you're trying to excite your nervous system or calm it 866 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:32,960 down or, you know, it's, there's a lot of cool, cool things about 867 00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:35,600 breathing that I just feel like most people don't know. 868 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,240 And about, you know, the fact that every time you inhale, your 869 00:41:38,240 --> 00:41:40,520 heart rate increases. Every time you exhale, your 870 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,400 heart rate decreases. And just those two things, you 871 00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,960 can modify them to have real effect on your, on your 872 00:41:45,960 --> 00:41:47,680 Physiology. It's really cool stuff. 873 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:50,640 So it is really cool. And not only that, but one of 874 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,480 the big things I hammer in I, I like to talk about breath work, 875 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,160 but also how are you breathing? So one of the things I do every 876 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,560 single time I do an education course is I tell people, put one 877 00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,960 hand on your chest and one hand on your belly and I want you to 878 00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,200 take a deep breath for me. And then they do it. 879 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:09,400 So I see this a lot and I say, hey, if you felt your shoulders 880 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,760 go up towards your ears when you take the breath, what you're 881 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,960 doing is you're not. Your diaphragm is compromised 882 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:16,920 and you are breathing with secondary muscles because you 883 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,440 know this mic after you complete a run. 884 00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,600 And we need to get air in and out of those lungs. 885 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,000 We need to get oxygen in and out fast. 886 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,480 We've got our scalenes, we've got our upper trapezius, we've 887 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,160 got these accessory muscles that elevate our first ribbon. 888 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,080 We get that air in and out because our our bodies need it. 889 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,360 But what happens is when we sit and we collapse, I know you guys 890 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,480 can't really see, but our diaphragm runs underneath our 891 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:40,920 rib cage and when we put pressure on a muscle, it tells 892 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,840 it to turn off. You know, so just like you ever 893 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,600 get a crazy muscle spasm and our instinct is to squeeze it, our 894 00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,640 instinct is to grab it and put pressure into it. 895 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,240 So I tease people a lot. Now, this isn't directly related 896 00:42:52,240 --> 00:42:54,080 to breath, but we're not built to sit. 897 00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:58,520 Our bodies were not designed to sit in a chair all day long. 898 00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:01,640 We were designed to kind of squat and we were designed to 899 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,880 run and to walk, but not to sit like we do. 900 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,400 So our glutes are arguably the most important muscles that 901 00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,040 protect our low backs. So right now, what are your 902 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,360 glutes and my glutes hearing? They're hearing turn off, turn 903 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,320 off, turn off, turn off. So when I go to stand up and 904 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:21,400 lift something, I'm going to be recruiting my low back muscles. 905 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,880 I'm going to be recruiting my hamstrings. 906 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:26,120 My glutes are OK. So I teach people, Yeah, I call 907 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,400 it dead butt syndrome, right? To make people don't laugh. 908 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,200 It's not a real thing. But so many of us can't isolate 909 00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:33,080 our glutes. So for the diaphragm, it's the 910 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,440 same thing. When I sit in a caved forward 911 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,240 position all day and I'm not doing anything ever to activate 912 00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:40,520 my diaphragm muscle, I'm not able to get up under there. 913 00:43:40,720 --> 00:43:42,280 I don't know how to do it with my fingers. 914 00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,320 I don't know how to do activations with my hands. 915 00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,000 And I'm breathing all day long like this. 916 00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:50,480 And So what that leads to is a rounding of the upper back that 917 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:51,840 leads to that forward head posture. 918 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,000 It leads to tightness through the traps and upper back. 919 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,480 It leads to more of a rounding of that thoracic spine. 920 00:43:56,720 --> 00:43:58,320 And then guess what? My diaphragm is hearing even 921 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,680 more of turn off, turn off, turn off. 922 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:04,320 So it's this vicious cycle. So I am all, if you can't tell, 923 00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,640 I'm all about extension and reversing and opening those 924 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,240 things up. But we get people and there's 925 00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:10,760 exercises that I take them through. 926 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:14,520 But when you take a deep breath in, this hand should not move. 927 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:20,640 It should be, it should be my belly expanding 360° as a 928 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,520 diaphragmatic breath and that is going to increase the quality of 929 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,720 each breath. It's going to conserve energy in 930 00:44:26,720 --> 00:44:30,560 my body and I'm going to be more productive at work just based on 931 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,080 the way I change my breathing. So those are the other things we 932 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:35,120 can talk to people about it. I forgot to mention that a 933 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:37,840 minute ago that we are increasing productivity. 934 00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,160 If I take 15 minutes to stretch in the morning, we're actually 935 00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:44,120 having a workforce that's probably being an hour's worth 936 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:45,440 more productive right throughout the day. 937 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,000 So we're actually seeing an increased impact. 938 00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,600 But unfortunately we can't quantify those are intangibles. 939 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:52,640 But when people are feeling better and they're not having 940 00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:57,240 30% of your crew is in hidden pain, we're going to see better 941 00:44:57,240 --> 00:44:57,800 work. OK. 942 00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:01,360 So that's kind of that's kind of how I I like the breath work 943 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,520 that I start with the found because what I found is most 944 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:08,080 people aren't breathing right, let alone we need to head into 945 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,560 the breath work. So I like to do that 946 00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,600 foundational. How are you taking a breath 947 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:12,200 first? Yeah. 948 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,160 Or they're holding their breath. Or they're holding their breath. 949 00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:17,720 Or they're holding their. Oh my God, I had so many people. 950 00:45:17,720 --> 00:45:20,520 I know I talked about this and, and I'll and in the 951 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:21,840 conversation, I'll watch them do it. 952 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:23,520 They start holding their breath. I'm like, do you realize you're 953 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:26,480 not even breathing right now? But people do it. 954 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:27,640 They don't even know they're not breathing. 955 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:28,520 They're just holding their breath. 956 00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:30,440 Absolutely. And then again, that's bringing 957 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,320 awareness to it. They're gonna be like, wait, I'm 958 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:33,080 doing what? Right. 959 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:35,240 And then we could get into the conversation about what's your 960 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:37,440 resting tongue posture and what's the straight, Are you a 961 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:38,920 mouth breather? Are you snoring? 962 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,480 Cuz all of those things are gonna have an impact on all of 963 00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:42,520 it. So. 964 00:45:42,720 --> 00:45:44,360 Yeah. Tape the mouth, breathe through 965 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,640 the nose, Activate. Different mouth tape. 966 00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,280 Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I know. 967 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,520 We don't want to get we. Don't want to get too crazy, but 968 00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:55,040 then your workers won't complain if you tape all their mouths 969 00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:56,720 shut. Either I can't I can't wear 970 00:45:56,720 --> 00:45:59,400 mouth tape my beard. It it just doesn't it doesn't 971 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,360 doesn't work doesn't work. I see you can just. 972 00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,200 Shave like a an Oval. How funny would that be? 973 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,840 I would look ridiculous, but it would be all for the mouth tape. 974 00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:10,720 I'm doing it for the breath work guys. 975 00:46:10,720 --> 00:46:13,000 That's right. You're you're, you're practicing 976 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:17,640 what you preach. Alicia, I, I don't want to keep 977 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,400 you on here all day, so I, I really appreciate your time 978 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,560 coming on, especially with such short notice. 979 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:25,400 If people want to learn more about you, about Catamount, 980 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:28,280 about how they you guys are helping companies, where can 981 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,000 they find you? Our website's probably the best 982 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,840 place to go. Has explanations for everything 983 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:33,520 we do. It's 984 00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:38,880 www.catamountconsultingllc.com so that's probably the quickest, 985 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,240 easiest way it links you to. Our Facebook and. 986 00:46:40,240 --> 00:46:42,080 Instagram. And you got, yeah, you got the 987 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:45,320 socials going on, the Facebooks, the Instagrams, the Linkedins, 988 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:47,680 all the stuff. So, well, thank you so much for 989 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:51,080 joining and coming on and and talking to us about ergonomics. 990 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:53,800 Really appreciate it. Absolutely appreciate you having 991 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,080 me. Yeah, absolutely, of course. 992 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,520 Thanks everybody for listening. You know, check us out buying 993 00:46:58,520 --> 00:47:01,960 local dot US is our media site. You can find all of our news 994 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,320 articles, our podcasts, check out our other podcasts. 995 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:08,320 We have, of course, Blue Collar Startup, which is one of our 996 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:11,800 more popular podcasts. We also got a newer podcast with 997 00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,280 Steven Zabala from Green Fork and that is called Food for 998 00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:16,520 Thought. Definitely check that out. 999 00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:18,960 That focuses a lot on health and Wellness, a lot of the kind of 1000 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:20,320 stuff that we're talking about today. 1001 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,360 And of course, Apple, Spotify, Rumble and YouTube is where you 1002 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,320 can watch and listen to all of our episodes. 1003 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,520 So thanks everybody for listening and you'll hear from 1004 00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:29,080 us next week.