1 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:12,100 Welcome to buying local. I am Mike Nelson, your host here 2 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:16,200 with a guest today. Talk about some new happenings 3 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,100 in the, the local markets, that seems to be some confusion, some 4 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:22,200 controversy. And, you know, seems like we're 5 00:00:22,208 --> 00:00:25,500 just trying to all get to the bottom of what's going on. 6 00:00:26,300 --> 00:00:28,400 Very easy. These days on the internet too. 7 00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:32,700 Find all sorts of information about pretty much any subject. 8 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:36,900 So sometimes hearing it straight from the horse's mouth as they 9 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:39,100 say, right? Is the the best way to do that. 10 00:00:39,100 --> 00:00:45,000 So I'm here today with re Happy from Saratoga biochar Solutions, 11 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:46,400 right? Thanks for joining us. 12 00:00:46,700 --> 00:00:49,500 Thanks for having me. Yeah, no I you know again I 13 00:00:49,900 --> 00:00:55,400 we've talked about this, you know, obviously our team here at 14 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,700 spa city has done some work with you guys. 15 00:00:57,700 --> 00:00:59,700 We help you build a website. We've done a little Video 16 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:03,500 production and and really, you know, there's just so much 17 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:07,200 information out there. And so I know I even having a 18 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:10,300 relationship with you and just a little confused about a lot of 19 00:01:10,300 --> 00:01:13,100 the things that I keep saying what seeing whether it's on 20 00:01:13,300 --> 00:01:17,000 Facebook or you know, and countless news articles that 21 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,500 we've been seeing come through local Publications. 22 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:23,600 And I think there might have been something on the news, 23 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:27,000 television news. And so and none of it all seems 24 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,700 to kind of line up with each other and So again, I'm 25 00:01:30,700 --> 00:01:33,400 confused, it's and I know that there's a lot of people out 26 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,000 there in the local communities are are confused as well. 27 00:01:36,900 --> 00:01:40,500 You have a kind of a Q&A session coming up. 28 00:01:40,500 --> 00:01:43,700 I believe on Monday the 19th is that right? 29 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:47,400 That's correct. Okay, so to kind of help I think 30 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,600 too. I don't know what the word is to 31 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,500 kind of clarify guess, maybe to try to you know, bring a little 32 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:57,300 light to the subject with all the confusion out. 33 00:01:57,300 --> 00:02:00,100 There's and we're hoping to kind of talk about some of that stuff 34 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:03,400 today as well. So maybe, you know, before we 35 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:06,500 get started for anybody, that's not aware of what the project 36 00:02:06,500 --> 00:02:09,300 is, maybe just kind of give us a rundown about, you know, who you 37 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:13,300 are, and what Saratoga biochars is trying to do? 38 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,500 Sure, thanks Mike. So just backing up one step. 39 00:02:16,500 --> 00:02:19,100 The meeting that you reference that's coming up on Monday 40 00:02:19,100 --> 00:02:21,600 night, a night, that's It's a public participation 41 00:02:21,900 --> 00:02:26,000 informational meeting in the intent is to provide information 42 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,800 for not only Moreau. The town of which the project 43 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:31,100 would be located before the surrounding communities, so that 44 00:02:31,100 --> 00:02:34,500 people can understand what we've proposed to do, where we are in 45 00:02:34,500 --> 00:02:37,500 the process specifically, where we are in the New York State DEC 46 00:02:37,500 --> 00:02:42,100 permitting process. Give them a chance to offer 47 00:02:42,100 --> 00:02:45,200 comments, ask questions. Give us a chance to respond. 48 00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:48,300 It'll be a to our virtual meeting and we're hoping it's 49 00:02:48,300 --> 00:02:49,900 productive. So that's that. 50 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,200 A little bit of background on me. 51 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,400 I've worked in the upstate New York area, my entire 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,200 professional career. I previously ran a technology 53 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,800 company called a nice & Associates which I sold in 2017. 54 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,800 And after that, went back to my roots, which is an environmental 55 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,500 science, that's what I was educated in an undergrad and 56 00:03:08,508 --> 00:03:13,200 graduate school and partnered up with a couple of guys who had a 57 00:03:13,208 --> 00:03:17,000 shared interest in taking a valuable waste product, and 58 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,700 cleaning it, and converting it into a valuable fertilizer. 59 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,500 Sir product. And so, we created a company 60 00:03:23,500 --> 00:03:26,600 called Northeastern bar chart Solutions which has a subsidiary 61 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,400 company, Saratoga bachar, which is our first project company, 62 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:35,400 and we proceeded to file a site plan application in the summer 63 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,000 of 2021. With the town of Monroe to cite 64 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,300 our first facility in their Industrial Park. 65 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,400 The reception initially was was positive. 66 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:47,500 The review process took 13 months, formally about 16 67 00:03:47,500 --> 00:03:52,300 months, including some pre pre. Asian work and we received a 68 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:56,100 site plan approval, in August of this year to cite that project 69 00:03:56,100 --> 00:03:59,700 in the more industrial park that approval had 16 fairly 70 00:03:59,700 --> 00:04:03,600 stringent, conditions related to human health. 71 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,500 Environmental safety and nuisance, you know, relative to 72 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:09,000 the potential for odors or noise. 73 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,900 So the town did a really nice job. 74 00:04:10,900 --> 00:04:16,100 I think in reviewing the project in detail, putting forth 75 00:04:16,100 --> 00:04:19,300 conditions with their approval which protect their community so 76 00:04:19,300 --> 00:04:21,399 that's where we are. Now, we've completed that step 77 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:25,300 we're in the middle of the dec, permitting, step and public 78 00:04:25,300 --> 00:04:27,600 participation is part of that process. 79 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:29,500 And that's what's happening now, okay. 80 00:04:29,700 --> 00:04:33,500 Alright. And so, you know, again, there's 81 00:04:33,500 --> 00:04:36,700 a lot of information out there and I don't know how many 82 00:04:36,700 --> 00:04:38,800 articles I think I've read at this point. 83 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:44,000 I know that, you know, we've written a few as well and I'm 84 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:46,800 just trying to understand like where is all the confusion come 85 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,900 from you know, like is there is there? 86 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:53,000 Let's say a source but like I, you know, there's just so much 87 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,100 information on the internet. I know at one point in time, 88 00:04:55,100 --> 00:05:01,000 there was a comparison to like the situation that happened up 89 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:04,600 in Maine with, you know, there was like, so I think I'm not 90 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,900 even sure of the situation was like they're spreading sewage on 91 00:05:07,900 --> 00:05:10,400 fields and I know what I'm talking about. 92 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:14,400 I could tell you exactly what happened to mean, in summary in 93 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,200 Maine. There was a an organic dairy 94 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:21,500 farm that was receiving biosolids from A local Regional 95 00:05:21,500 --> 00:05:25,900 sewage treatment plant that those biosolids contained, 96 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:29,400 elevated levels of pfos, pfas compounds. 97 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:32,500 And the reason that they did is because within that Watershed 98 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:35,400 was a manufacturing company that was using extremely high levels 99 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,500 of pfos in products that were actually used for human food 100 00:05:38,500 --> 00:05:40,800 consumption. So plates and cups and stuff 101 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:41,900 like that. That's great. 102 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:43,300 Yeah, that's in. That was the source. 103 00:05:43,300 --> 00:05:46,500 And so they were using so much. They were actually releasing a, 104 00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:48,600 quite a lot of it, in their Wastewater, which went to the 105 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,200 wastewater treatment plant, which It up in the bio solids, 106 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:55,100 which were then taken out and spread on, on crop land. 107 00:05:55,100 --> 00:05:59,700 So that that created elevated levels of pfos, in the, in the 108 00:05:59,700 --> 00:06:02,100 grass that the cows Aid and and then in the cows. 109 00:06:02,100 --> 00:06:05,200 So, you know, that's and that's a terrible outcome and that 110 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,700 shouldn't happen. That's one of the one of the 111 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:11,200 many reasons why were opposed to the continued practice of using 112 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,700 biosolids directly as fertilizer without further treatment. 113 00:06:14,700 --> 00:06:18,600 So currently in 44, out of 50 states is legal to use bio 114 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,200 solids as a fertilizer. Are those biosolids are treated 115 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:23,900 at the wastewater treatment, plant to Great the biosolids. 116 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,800 I won't get into the details of how that works unless you want 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,100 to. But additionally, biosolids are 118 00:06:29,100 --> 00:06:33,200 then typically composted lime is added, and they're basically 119 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,100 allowed to rot long enough, so that the pathogens work, their 120 00:06:36,100 --> 00:06:38,800 way out of through the natural decomposition process and then 121 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:42,400 they're considered quote, unquote class a bio solids, and 122 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:44,400 then they're used on for agricultural. 123 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,900 Fertilizer. So, that's what happened in 124 00:06:46,900 --> 00:06:51,000 Maine. So, And I know that I read it 125 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,900 somewhere, but there's there continues to be a parallel drawn 126 00:06:54,900 --> 00:06:57,200 between what happened in Maine. And what you're trying to 127 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:01,400 accomplish here can and help me understand, you know, because 128 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,300 again I'm just a podcast host, right? 129 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,500 Like what is, what's the difference between what they did 130 00:07:07,500 --> 00:07:09,700 and what you're doing? Yeah, it's interesting that 131 00:07:09,700 --> 00:07:11,000 people are trying to draw a parallel. 132 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,400 Could because there is none there, what occurred in Maine 133 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,700 and and situation, similar to that are the primary reason why 134 00:07:18,700 --> 00:07:21,500 we've developed this technology. Ecology to take these biosolids 135 00:07:21,500 --> 00:07:25,300 materials, add a tremendous additional treatment step to 136 00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:28,400 decontaminate them from the kind of materials that, you know, 137 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,200 that cause problems in Maine pfos, particularly, as well as 138 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:35,300 other volatile organic compounds that come from Pharmaceuticals. 139 00:07:35,300 --> 00:07:39,700 Everything that goes down the drain the toilet, the the the 140 00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:42,900 car wash at cetera. So we've developed a process to 141 00:07:42,900 --> 00:07:46,200 decontaminate those materials, and actually totally convert 142 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:49,100 biosolids, to something else to carbon fertilizer, our end 143 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:51,200 product to be Clear is not bio solid. 144 00:07:51,200 --> 00:07:53,700 It is no longer biosolids. It's completely different. 145 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:55,200 It's been entirely. Altered. 146 00:07:56,200 --> 00:08:01,600 Decontaminated in the remaining material is 30%. 32, 32 percent 147 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,900 carbon in the balance of the material is macro and 148 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,700 micronutrients that are free of those contaminants that are 149 00:08:07,700 --> 00:08:10,600 human and health human health and environmental concerns. 150 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,300 So if I understand that correctly, what I hear you 151 00:08:15,308 --> 00:08:22,000 saying is that you're taking the biosolids And pulling all the 152 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:23,800 bad stuff out. Leaving the good stuff, man. 153 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:26,800 I mean, I, you know, I live on a small farm, we have animals. 154 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:32,500 We use the animal waste, you know, to help grow food because 155 00:08:32,500 --> 00:08:35,400 it's full of nutrients that the ground likes in the plants. 156 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:40,400 Like so it are you basically creating a, you know, a waste 157 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:41,700 product. So to speak, that becomes 158 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:43,799 something that can be used, right? 159 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,300 Is that, is that the end goal is that we're pulling all the bad 160 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:48,600 stuff out. You're leaving the good stuff 161 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,800 behind And that's a great, was, simple way to put it? 162 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,200 We're pulling the bad stuff out. Saving the good stuff, the good 163 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:55,900 stuff that comes out as it's dry. 164 00:08:55,900 --> 00:08:59,300 It's very stable. It has all kinds of benefits to 165 00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:01,900 the environment. It's sequester's are tremendous 166 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:05,300 amount of fixed carbon back into our agricultural soils. 167 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,300 I could go on and on, but just very briefly, especially in the 168 00:09:09,300 --> 00:09:14,600 realm of industrial-grade, Agriculture, and crop production 169 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,300 in North America and throughout the developed World, we've been 170 00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:21,600 pulling carbon and It's out of our fertile soils to grow crops 171 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,800 for human consumption directly for animal consumption. 172 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,000 And for the most part, particularly with human 173 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,800 consumption, the waste material that comes from the human 174 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,200 population, does not go back to the agricultural Fields where it 175 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,100 came from. It goes into little holes in the 176 00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:40,900 ground called landfills or it goes to incinerators and gets 177 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:43,100 burned. Directly the solids, get burned 178 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:46,100 and pushed up into the atmosphere with some levels of 179 00:09:46,100 --> 00:09:48,800 are cleaning and then there are other avenues. 180 00:09:48,900 --> 00:09:50,400 Canoes to. So one of the things we just 181 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:53,400 talked about was direct agricultural, land application 182 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,700 of biosolids. So those are kind of the outlets 183 00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:59,900 for that that material. Today, we do something 184 00:09:59,900 --> 00:10:03,000 completely different with it. We do exactly what you said, we 185 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,500 take the bad stuff out and treat those materials. 186 00:10:05,500 --> 00:10:09,000 Dry them. Create a very stable carbon 187 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,500 fertilizer product that's loaded with macro and micronutrients 188 00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:13,600 and use that safely as a fertilizer. 189 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:18,900 And so that takes that material and and puts it into a format. 190 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:22,300 At that's a tremendous beneficial use for society. 191 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:29,000 So, If we're taking the bad stuff out and we're leaving the 192 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,400 good stuff behind right to be used, where's the bad stuff go? 193 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,100 Well, the volatile organic compounds, and organofluorine is 194 00:10:37,100 --> 00:10:39,700 like, pfos is simply get broken apart? 195 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:42,400 Literally broken apart through thermal process. 196 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,100 So we have a multi-stage treatment system and I'll 197 00:10:46,100 --> 00:10:49,800 describe that really briefly the biosolids come in there mixed 198 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,100 with clean waste wood. We mix in a little wood. 199 00:10:53,100 --> 00:10:57,700 It allows us to buffer moisture But it also adds a little energy 200 00:10:57,700 --> 00:11:00,000 into the mix and a little additional carbon. 201 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,100 So we will add about 10% would waste into the biosolids. 202 00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:09,500 That gets mixed to provide a proper or a feedstock that that 203 00:11:09,500 --> 00:11:12,600 is continuous feed and and has continuity. 204 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,500 In other words, it's, you know, uniform and that goes first into 205 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:21,600 a dryer and that dryer is simply a large rotary drum, which gets 206 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,000 a lot of hot air pushed through it and heat under it. 207 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,400 And that simply takes The moisture out of the mix 208 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,400 biosolids in wood. So when the biosolids come in 209 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,400 the moisture, contents around 75%, when they come out, the 210 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,300 other end of that dryer with the mixed wood, it's going to be 211 00:11:37,300 --> 00:11:39,700 down to about five percent moisture content. 212 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:41,000 So, at that point, it's quite dry. 213 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,400 And from there, it goes into a pyrolysis kiln, which is 214 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:48,000 basically another big rotary drum device with a lot of heat. 215 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,800 So it's much hotter than the dryer. 216 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,700 And in that pyrolysis, Kiln, that's where we're actually 217 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:55,900 separating. The Unwanted volatile organic. 218 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:59,500 Compounds in Organo fluorines like pfos out of the solid. 219 00:11:59,500 --> 00:12:03,500 So there were separating solids from gases in the gases contain 220 00:12:03,500 --> 00:12:06,200 The Unwanted contaminants, right? 221 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:09,900 And so those gases also contain what I call an aerosolized oil, 222 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:13,200 it is there is an oil mixed in with the gases but it's 223 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:18,300 aerosolized and so that mixed gas near aslized oil gets pushed 224 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:24,500 immediately into a thermal oxidizer which again Heats it to 225 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:27,700 even higher temperature. So in The pyrolysis Killing, 226 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:29,800 we're operating just over 1,000 degrees. 227 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:33,200 And then those gases are pushed up into a thermal oxidizer, 228 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,000 which the first stage of which operates at 2300 degrees, Which 229 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,000 is higher than we had originally intended, and we can talk about 230 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,100 the manufacturing reasons for that, but we've been able to 231 00:12:43,108 --> 00:12:46,100 secure guarantee from the thermal oxidizer, manufacturer 232 00:12:46,100 --> 00:12:49,100 to remove pfos. If we operate the first stage at 233 00:12:49,100 --> 00:12:52,500 2300 degrees Fahrenheit. So that's what we're going to 234 00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:54,300 do. Let me, so let me ask this. 235 00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:58,900 So, The first stage. Right? 236 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:01,900 So the whole process from what you're saying is first, you dry 237 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:05,800 it, mmm, which means that there's water coming out of it, 238 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,300 I was sick, right? Where does the water go out the 239 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:11,200 stack out the stack? So it's yeah. 240 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,100 The the emissions from the plant will contain quite a lot of just 241 00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:16,700 h2o at a matter of fact, if you're driving by and weird to 242 00:13:16,700 --> 00:13:19,500 see our mission stack, if you saw a plume especially in cold 243 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:21,500 weather. Yeah, a white plume coming out 244 00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:25,100 of there. That is mostly water, okay? 245 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,400 And Is there any like anything? Any of the bad stuff in the 246 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:31,400 water? I guess. 247 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:34,600 No. Because that's in the dryer. 248 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,500 You're separating it. You're actually no, no the 249 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:40,600 waters still at that point. The water is separated from the 250 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,100 solids and the solids contain all of the contaminants. 251 00:13:43,100 --> 00:13:45,200 Okay, okay, still at that point. Okay? 252 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,200 So first, you dry it, the Wastewater goes out the stack. 253 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,500 I'd imagine, it becomes a rain at something or whatever, 254 00:13:53,500 --> 00:13:55,700 wherever water goes. So. 255 00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:59,000 And then, your next part is that you Heat it, but you're not 256 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,700 burning it at this point. Is that the pyrolysis? 257 00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,300 Again, I have a very rudimentary understanding of the correct 258 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:07,100 department. All assist Kiln is a, it's a 259 00:14:07,108 --> 00:14:11,500 device that takes material in to an environment where we can heat 260 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,900 it. As I said, to just over 1,000 261 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:18,000 degrees in and that environment has no oxygen, it's an oxygen 262 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,900 starved environment. So there is a can't burn. 263 00:14:19,900 --> 00:14:23,000 Therefore it can't burn, look at auction in, there's no fire and 264 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,000 so that allows us that heating allows us to separate the 265 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,400 Organic compounds, pfos and those those sorts of things from 266 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,400 the solids. So what comes out of the 267 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,000 pyrolysis Kiln is the end product at that point that 268 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,200 carbon fertilizer is it's hot and needs to be cooled and bag 269 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,000 but it's basically ready to go outside. 270 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:41,500 It's done. The product is made at that 271 00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:44,200 point. It's what happens after that to 272 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:48,600 the gases and the gas involved and volatilized oils that that 273 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:50,400 matters relative to decontamination. 274 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,200 So from there it goes again, as I was saying to the thermal 275 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,300 oxidizer which Cooks It initially at 2300 degrees, 276 00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:58,200 that's a three-stage. Thermal oxidizer. 277 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,500 So it goes through multiple stages and that combustion 278 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:04,600 breaks apart all those compounds. 279 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:09,100 There's literally nothing left after that point of concern in 280 00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:11,900 the exhaust gas. And we capture the energy from 281 00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:14,800 that, heat release, and we actually use that to heat the 282 00:15:14,808 --> 00:15:16,100 dryer. So that's what makes our 283 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:17,900 process. So efficient, we take the energy 284 00:15:17,900 --> 00:15:21,100 from the biosolids and mixed Woods effectively in that 285 00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:23,900 manner. And we use that heat energy to 286 00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:25,600 run the dryer. So we don't have to use an 287 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,300 outside fuel source to run the dryer. 288 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,900 Fire. So okay. 289 00:15:31,100 --> 00:15:32,900 See. Dry it heat. 290 00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:37,300 It very hot, but don't burn it per se because there's no oxygen 291 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:41,200 and then you have your fertilizer and but there's still 292 00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:44,600 some of the bad stuff, the bad stuff goes up and you heat it 293 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:46,800 again. This time though, you are 294 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:48,800 burning it this time. We're combusting. 295 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,900 The gases in the air slides oils, that's correct. 296 00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:54,600 Okay, to I think you said 2300 degrees, initially 2300, there, 297 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,200 it's a multi stage of the highest the hottest point in. 298 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,500 It is the first stage at 2300, okay? 299 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,400 And that Breaks up all the bad stuff that we don't want 300 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:04,800 basically. Okay. 301 00:16:05,100 --> 00:16:08,800 And then it goes out the stack so you know the air that's there 302 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,400 goes out the stack but before it does be careful with the with 303 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,300 the use of the terms that goes out the stack from there because 304 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:19,100 because probably I mean relatives you to human health, 305 00:16:19,100 --> 00:16:21,600 concerns and questions that have been raised about their 306 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,800 emissions from this facility regardless of how successful we 307 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,900 are at destroying contaminants in the thermal oxidizer. 308 00:16:29,900 --> 00:16:34,200 Princess, what Matters. Most is how we scrub the air and 309 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,400 how effective the air treatment system is after that, okay. 310 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:39,400 All right. So that's because Mike, what if 311 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,000 we don't get it all? I mean I'm getting a 312 00:16:41,008 --> 00:16:43,600 manufacturer guarantee. That says, oh yeah, at 2300. 313 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,900 Ruiz will break up all the pfos. There won't be any well, what if 314 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:48,300 there is. I don't want it going out of our 315 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:51,200 stack, right? So okay, the dec is regulating 316 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,200 us there will be a permit compliance, requirement that 317 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:58,600 only certain amounts of certain compounds are allowed to go out 318 00:16:58,600 --> 00:17:00,400 of the stack. And we have to, if we don't 319 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:03,100 comply, With that permit, they shut us down. 320 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,200 Yeah, you know, we can't afford to be shut down, so we're not 321 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:07,300 having that happen. So the air treatment system is 322 00:17:07,300 --> 00:17:11,700 critical in this whole process. I have to imagine that in 323 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,900 today's day and age after all the things that have happened 324 00:17:14,900 --> 00:17:18,500 around the country. Over the last 100 years, of 325 00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,700 major manufacturers polluting, the environment and doing some 326 00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:25,599 pretty bad things. I guess that there's got to be 327 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,200 some oversight that is making sure that that doesn't happen. 328 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:32,300 Well that's that's It's an interesting way to put it. 329 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:34,800 I would, I would characterize it this way. 330 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,800 Yes, that has occurred 100 years ago, there was no DEC here in 331 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,000 New York. There were no, there was no 332 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:42,700 environmental regulation, you know, EPA EPA. 333 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:45,700 And over that period of time, those organizations have grown 334 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:49,000 the regulations that they've developed, which are founded by 335 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:53,100 the laws that are developed in. Our legislators have really 336 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:58,900 continuously tighten the reins on on environmental, pollution 337 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:01,400 concerns in human health, concerns in all Good reason. 338 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:04,100 That said that, that absolutely is how it should be. 339 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:07,800 And interestingly, here in New York state, we probably have the 340 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,600 most aggressive or the most effective environmental 341 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,400 regulator in the country. The only other one that remotely 342 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,500 Compares would be California. Yeah, you know, New York and 343 00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:19,600 California. We like to regulate everything. 344 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:22,300 Well, in some people say it's, you know, to a fault. 345 00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:24,800 But I mean, as it relates to human health, I don't know that 346 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,900 there can never be enough because we're horrible things 347 00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:29,300 have happened. So well, I also there is that 348 00:18:29,300 --> 00:18:30,600 oversight that you just mentioned there. 349 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:32,900 Is absolutely that type of oversight here in New York 350 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:34,600 state. Oh and that's that was something 351 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:38,300 that I keep reading as well, in both news articles and on 352 00:18:38,300 --> 00:18:41,700 Facebook and different forms is that, you know, one of the 353 00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:44,900 concerns is that locally, we know we have had some and I 354 00:18:44,900 --> 00:18:48,700 won't name them, but we've had some organizations that have not 355 00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:53,200 been kind to the environment. And because of that, there have 356 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:58,000 been high cancer rates that I don't know if they've ever been 357 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,700 able to exactly connect those dots. 358 00:19:00,900 --> 00:19:02,900 I know that a lot of people locally feel that some of these 359 00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:05,300 higher cancer rates locally have been attributed to those 360 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:09,100 organizations and, and because of that people are, you know, to 361 00:19:09,100 --> 00:19:11,500 say rightfully so a little bit gun shy. 362 00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:18,000 And so, I guess my question is, you know, how do you, you know, 363 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,700 and I know that you mentioned manufacturer guarantee. 364 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:22,700 Like, how do you, how do you not become one of those 365 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:24,800 organizations? And I know that we kind of 366 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:27,400 touched on it, but I know that it's kind of a big concern and I 367 00:19:27,400 --> 00:19:30,100 just, I want to make sure that I get the answer, right? 368 00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:32,700 Like, how do you Not become those organizations. 369 00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,300 Well, I mean that's something that absolutely must be avoided 370 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:39,200 because that that sort of pollution and lack of care for 371 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,600 environment and human health is an acceptable anymore. 372 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,800 So we wouldn't be able to operate if and again back to the 373 00:19:45,300 --> 00:19:49,400 permit compliance, if we're not able to conform and comply with 374 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,900 the permits, that will be hopefully provided by New York 375 00:19:51,900 --> 00:19:57,100 State DEC for Waste Management handling and for air emissions 376 00:19:57,100 --> 00:19:59,200 we will be shut down. We'll be out of business and 377 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:04,200 that's not acceptable. So So everything relates to the 378 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,100 engineering design planning, Testing Lab analysis and we've 379 00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:10,900 spent years on this. So I've had a lot of criticism. 380 00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:12,900 You guys don't know that you can do this. 381 00:20:12,900 --> 00:20:15,200 Well yeah, actually we do know, we spend hundreds of thousands 382 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,400 of dollars with our manufacturing partners with 383 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:20,500 field testing and with the lab analysis. 384 00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:22,500 And then I've had some people say well Hannah still lab 385 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:25,500 analysis well no I'm not handing over this, this is trade secret 386 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:27,200 information. If the regulator wants it, we've 387 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:30,100 given the regulator everything that they need and we would open 388 00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:31,100 up anything. To them. 389 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:33,600 Some of that would have to be redacted relative to public 390 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:35,400 consumption because it's trade secret. 391 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,400 It has tremendous intellectual property value that we have 392 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,000 spent a lot of money and time on. 393 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,200 And I'm not going to have our competitors just handed that 394 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,000 information. So so we've been doing this for 395 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,700 years and so it's all about the depth of the review and the 396 00:20:49,700 --> 00:20:54,200 planning and design and, and the team that encompasses all this 397 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:58,400 and we've got this isn't me. We're my two founding Partners, 398 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,600 leawo vocal and Bryce Meeker doing all this work. 399 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:05,200 Writing guidance to to you know to make sure that our our 400 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,900 Consulting and Manufacturing Partners understand the business 401 00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:10,200 that we're trying to build and what it needs to do. 402 00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:14,100 But we're relying on people with chemical engineering degrees, 403 00:21:14,500 --> 00:21:17,200 physical engineering degrees, Professional Engineers, 404 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:21,200 manufacturing design, Engineers with decades and Decades of 405 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,500 experience in thermal processing and chemical conversion to come 406 00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,800 up with the answers to meet the needs of our business plan. 407 00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:32,800 And now you Mentioned in the conversation earlier about like 408 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,000 manufacturer guarantees like what does that mean exactly when 409 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,000 you have a manufacturer? I mean, because again, you know, 410 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,900 there's there's been questions that, you know, this has never 411 00:21:41,900 --> 00:21:46,500 been done before. You're the first facility of 412 00:21:46,500 --> 00:21:49,200 your kind, I don't know if it's in the world but in this 413 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:54,500 country. Anyway, what you know, what is a 414 00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:56,900 guarantee mean? Like from the manufacturers? 415 00:21:56,900 --> 00:21:59,700 I just don't understand that. So I can describe that really 416 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:01,100 really clearly and succinctly. Equally. 417 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:04,700 But first, we're not the first facility of this kind in the 418 00:22:04,700 --> 00:22:08,200 world biosolids biochar, Productions occurring, in 419 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:12,700 Europe, and in the UK and China and the North American continent 420 00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:14,600 hasn't really has an adapted yet. 421 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:17,100 So but we're definitely out of the curve in that regard. 422 00:22:17,100 --> 00:22:20,400 And that's we want to and we need to be first to Market with 423 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:24,100 that, that's our first mover advantage and so you know that 424 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:28,300 that has a lot of value to us, but the guarantees really really 425 00:22:28,300 --> 00:22:32,200 come in three different levels. Boils or three areas. 426 00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:36,800 The first is simply a process guarantee from the thermal 427 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:38,500 processing equipment manufacturer. 428 00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:42,900 And that basically says that this equipment is guaranteed to 429 00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,200 to process 10 tons per hour of the material that you want to 430 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:50,000 process without fail. And and if there is failure, the 431 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:54,300 manufacturer has a certain set of responsibilities financial 432 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,200 and direct and immediate intervention responsibilities to 433 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,900 fix that problem. And to us that means Is 434 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:03,200 continuity. And it also means that we 435 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:07,600 wouldn't have to you know, have a stream of biosolids backed up 436 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,700 at the facility unable to be processed. 437 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:12,300 And we're working with a manufacturer that's been 438 00:23:12,300 --> 00:23:17,000 building thermal processing equipment for 148 years in here 439 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,100 in the United States. This is a u.s. manufacturer and 440 00:23:20,100 --> 00:23:22,400 when I don't mean to interrupt, but when you say a stream of 441 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,300 biosolids backed up at the facility, do you mean like from 442 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:28,400 a transport standpoint or like you on the line of try? 443 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,100 No, that's yeah, yeah. So from a transport, Standpoint. 444 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:32,600 So we have two mechanisms, right? 445 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,300 So first off we need to be able to process the material that 446 00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:37,400 comes in without fail. So that's that's what the 447 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,300 manufacturing guarantee provides for us relative to process 448 00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:45,200 guaranteed and we also have an engagement with our feedstock 449 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,600 provider because sell organic switch, which contractually 450 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,300 enables us to with a phone call. Say, if we needed to, you have 451 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:54,900 to stop bringing biosolids immediately. 452 00:23:54,900 --> 00:23:57,300 And so at that point, they would divert the trucks before they 453 00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:58,900 ever got to Moreau. They'll go somewhere else that 454 00:23:58,900 --> 00:24:01,900 go to a landfill, another incinerator Land up all the 455 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,000 things that we don't want them to do it by ourselves that go 456 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,800 back to doing what they do today which would cost us a lot of 457 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,300 money because we're unable unable at that point to meet the 458 00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,100 contractual obligations with the feedstock provider. 459 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,800 So therefore we get basically the manufacturer guarantee pays 460 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,100 for covers the cost of that downtime effectively so that's 461 00:24:21,100 --> 00:24:23,900 level one is just process. Guaranteed on the thermal 462 00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:27,700 processing equipment, the second level which is really important 463 00:24:28,100 --> 00:24:31,700 is the guarantee from the Manufacturer. 464 00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:35,000 That's that's building the thermal oxidation unit. 465 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,500 The multistage thermal oxidizer that we talked about a minute 466 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:40,700 ago. And that's where you, you cook, 467 00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:44,100 the bad stuff to break it apart. Nope, don't. 468 00:24:44,100 --> 00:24:45,900 All right? No, that's pyrolysis. 469 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:48,600 The thermal oxidation is the next stage after okay, where we 470 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,500 actually heat the gas and aerosolized oil to 2300 degrees 471 00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:55,800 and then it steps down in a multi stage combustion, choke a 472 00:24:55,808 --> 00:24:58,000 so that's one that basically breaks up the peafowl, That's 473 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,000 combustion. Okay. 474 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,800 And so, in order to obtain Guarantee from that 475 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,100 manufacturer, we've raised the temperature. 476 00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:06,000 We've made it a multi-stage unit. 477 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,800 The cost of, it's gone from 1 million to 3 million dollars to 478 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:12,200 have that. Surety that it will do what it's 479 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,200 prescribed to do. And so that's really important 480 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,900 because that that manufacturers giving us a literally giving us 481 00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:20,900 a guarantee on pfos destruction, which has become a really hot 482 00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:23,100 topic. A lot of people are concerned 483 00:25:23,100 --> 00:25:27,300 about it, I guess, rightly so and an additional e, we know 484 00:25:27,300 --> 00:25:30,600 that the EPA the US EPA is tightening. 485 00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:35,000 Regulations on pfos, they have named certain there were over. 486 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,500 4,000 variance of pfos in the manufacturing world that are 487 00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:40,500 used in all kinds of different products and things, including 488 00:25:40,500 --> 00:25:44,800 things that you eat with but the regulations are being tightened 489 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,800 on on those as they set generally and certain components 490 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,800 of that set of pfos compounds have now been deemed hazardous, 491 00:25:54,500 --> 00:25:58,800 hazardous material, that's not biosolids, but specifically 492 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,500 certain variants of pfos or no Are now regulated as hazardous. 493 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:06,900 And so, my point is that we know that as time goes on the 494 00:26:06,900 --> 00:26:10,400 requirements for pfos, remediation, and the 495 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,100 requirements that there is no pfos, or that P foss's is 496 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:18,100 heavily regulated in air. Emissions are going to get 497 00:26:18,100 --> 00:26:20,800 Tighter and Tighter. So we don't want to have to 498 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,200 rebuild the plant 10 years. From now, we're building it 499 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,500 today to be ready for today's regulations and tomorrow's 500 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:30,900 especially relative to pfos. Because that is it's a Trace 501 00:26:30,900 --> 00:26:33,000 amount in BIO solids but it does exist. 502 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,600 It's of high public concern. And we have made the commitment 503 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,400 that we destroy remediate pfos from from a material. 504 00:26:41,500 --> 00:26:44,900 And we're committed to that to do that. 505 00:26:44,900 --> 00:26:48,400 So that's that's thermal oxidation guarantee for pfos, 506 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,800 Destruction and the third level of manufacture guarantee is the 507 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,600 air treatment system. We are working with Condor chem 508 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:58,300 envirotec to European. It's a massive European company. 509 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:02,500 One of if not the most successful Are industrial air, 510 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:06,500 treatment manufacturer providers in the world and that are 511 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:09,600 treatment system is an excess of 2 million dollars. 512 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,800 And we are getting a guarantee from that manufacturer that we 513 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,700 will meet or exceed. The requirements for our New 514 00:27:17,700 --> 00:27:23,400 York state, d.c. are missions permit and that we will exceed 515 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,800 expectations for odor removal. It's one of the most important 516 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:30,800 things to us is not to have a facility that stinks up the 517 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,200 neighborhood. And, you know, Moreau is a 518 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,900 fairly rural area within a half. A mile of facility there are, I 519 00:27:36,900 --> 00:27:41,100 think, under 60 residences, residential locations, for 520 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:43,900 postal addresses, anyway, and you know, week, but we don't 521 00:27:43,900 --> 00:27:45,400 want, we don't want to know what her problem. 522 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:47,100 We don't want odor complaints, right? 523 00:27:47,100 --> 00:27:48,500 We don't want to be a bad neighbor. 524 00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:51,900 We've signed a we've created and signed a policy in row that says 525 00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:53,900 will be a good neighbor. We won't stink it up. 526 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,200 We won't have problems with trucks. 527 00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,500 We won't have noise that exceeds the town's noise regulations and 528 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,000 And things like that. So it's important to us to 529 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,100 remediate odor and so what comes out to stack, the emission stack 530 00:28:07,100 --> 00:28:11,800 of the facility goes relatively unnoticed by the surrounding 531 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:16,800 public. So I guess on that point, And I 532 00:28:16,808 --> 00:28:19,900 know like you said, you're going above and beyond expectations 533 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,600 from the DC as far as what your emissions are. 534 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,000 I guess, I mean, I, you know, I don't know what those standards 535 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,100 are. I have to assume they're 536 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,300 probably pretty high, but I know that one of the things that 537 00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:36,200 we've seen in the news is that you've your, you've been, I 538 00:28:36,208 --> 00:28:38,900 don't know. Hit with a lawsuit, I guess from 539 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,100 a local environmental, about about your air emission. 540 00:28:42,100 --> 00:28:44,400 So I guess that's what I'm another one of the things I'm 541 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,100 confused about. If you know, if you're above and 542 00:28:47,100 --> 00:28:51,000 beyond what all of the regulating agencies are asking 543 00:28:51,500 --> 00:28:53,600 what possibly could someone be, you know? 544 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,400 Be suing you for, I guess again, one of the things that is just 545 00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,200 very confusing out there. Yeah, there's a just based on 546 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,000 your question. There's a lot of confusion. 547 00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:07,000 So first off the lawsuit is called an article 78 complaint 548 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:09,600 and it was filed against the town of Monroe planning board, 549 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,600 specifically, okay. And Saratoga biochar was named 550 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,900 as a co-respondent and what that lawsuit alleges is that the town 551 00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:21,500 of Monroe planning board, did not adequately adequately adhere 552 00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:23,700 to New York State's Environmental. 553 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:29,100 Body review Act and the the requirements of that act to for 554 00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:31,100 project reviews. They basically say that the town 555 00:29:31,100 --> 00:29:35,100 didn't do enough review of the proposed project and that they 556 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:40,500 did not rightfully issue. A statement of quality review - 557 00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:45,400 declaration - meaning no substantial environmental impact 558 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:49,100 they issued a positive or they issued a negative declaration. 559 00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:51,900 That said there would be no substantial environmental impact 560 00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:53,600 meaning that it's you know, like mild. 561 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,900 Moderate. And in the process of their 562 00:29:56,900 --> 00:30:01,100 review, they also discussed and evaluated the environmental and 563 00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:05,100 human health mitigation measures that that we are proposed and 564 00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:10,300 designed and and that covered a lot of areas from Wastewater 565 00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:13,900 discharge the waste water content are emissions truck, 566 00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:20,300 traffic traffic, Route, odor noise, environmental concerns. 567 00:30:20,300 --> 00:30:23,200 Like are we building on a property that had potentially 568 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,600 has? Endangered species or anything 569 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,900 of that nature, archaeological remains all of those things were 570 00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:31,700 covered in that review. All of those things, including 571 00:30:31,700 --> 00:30:34,800 also things like Emergency Management. 572 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,600 We met with the Saratoga County Emergency Management and done 573 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:42,400 with the local Fire Department, chief to review the facility 574 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,300 layout and we got their input and we'll continue to get their 575 00:30:45,300 --> 00:30:48,200 input through the building permit process to ensure that 576 00:30:48,500 --> 00:30:51,700 the facility is properly designed to, you know, for 577 00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:53,600 emergency response in Emergency Management. 578 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:57,300 And things like that. So the review was comprehensive 579 00:30:57,300 --> 00:30:59,200 the lawsuit alleges that, it wasn't. 580 00:30:59,700 --> 00:31:01,600 But that's what it's about. It's about the State 581 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,800 Environmental Quality review specifically, it's not, it's not 582 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,900 detailed to the level of. It's not a lawsuit against an 583 00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:10,600 air emissions profile or some catch. 584 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:11,800 Okay? Because that's again. 585 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:13,700 What as you read, all these different things, whether it's 586 00:31:13,700 --> 00:31:17,000 on Facebook or in some of the news articles I've read, you 587 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,200 know, just that's that was the impression that I got was that 588 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,600 you guys were being sued, but it's, yeah, well, in effect. 589 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,900 Our, but the lawsuit is directly aimed at the town of Monroe, 590 00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:29,800 planning board, and where the applicant relative to the 591 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,800 approval that they provide. And so, they named us as a 592 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:33,600 correspondent. Okay? 593 00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:37,300 And an article 78 lawsuit, it's not like a civil lawsuit, 594 00:31:37,300 --> 00:31:40,400 there's no Discovery. There's no trial what it is. 595 00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:45,600 Is it's a complaint filed where an appointed judge will then 596 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,900 review the government, the record of the government's 597 00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:51,500 handling of an action. So, in other words, the Saratoga 598 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:53,600 county court is going to review tomorrow. 599 00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:56,700 Oh, town planning board's, handling of our application and 600 00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:59,300 the handling of their State Environmental Quality review 601 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,400 relative to our application. And the court will then render a 602 00:32:02,408 --> 00:32:04,400 decision. That that the way, that that 603 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,600 agency handled that was appropriate or not understood. 604 00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,700 Okay, that makes a little more sense. 605 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:14,500 What? I just couple more questions. 606 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,300 I know we're kind of getting pressed for time, you know, one 607 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:23,100 of the things that I keep seeing a lot to is the term and we kind 608 00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:24,800 of touched on this in the beginning with the whole main 609 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,300 deal. But like I keep hearing sewage 610 00:32:26,300 --> 00:32:31,200 sludge sewage sludge, are you bringing sewage sludge into the 611 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,300 area? We're bringing biosolids into 612 00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:34,800 the area? So there's there's a lot of 613 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,200 confusion around that and those those terms are used 614 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:40,900 interchangeably. Like it sounds like you're going 615 00:32:40,900 --> 00:32:42,800 to have 100 trucks a day coming in. 616 00:32:43,100 --> 00:32:47,000 With this sewage, sludge, that's what I keep reading and I just, 617 00:32:47,300 --> 00:32:49,400 you know, just from a little information that I know about 618 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:50,900 the process. That doesn't seem to be the 619 00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:53,200 case. But again, you know, there's so 620 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,400 much information out there. So I'm just so a lot of people 621 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,200 even people within the wastewater treatment industry 622 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,600 referred to sludge and biosolids interchangeably. 623 00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:07,800 But reality is sewage sludge, is that is the solids with in a way 624 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,000 that are received at a wastewater treatment plant that 625 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,700 come in with the water. And so it's a liquid sewage 626 00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:15,200 sludge Judge is a liquid, you could have a bucket full of it. 627 00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:18,100 I sloshing around washing around short out on the ground and has 628 00:33:18,100 --> 00:33:22,300 not yet been treated biosolids are treated sewage, sludge. 629 00:33:22,300 --> 00:33:26,600 So it's multiple stages after receipt of Wastewater from the 630 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,300 sewage treatment plant, it gets dewatered, sludge settles out, 631 00:33:30,900 --> 00:33:33,400 excuse me, the sludge settles out of the water for the 632 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,700 dewatering process. They in most cases add the 633 00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:39,700 bacteria to it. That consumes organic matter and 634 00:33:39,700 --> 00:33:42,800 literally transforms sewage sludge into something else which 635 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,000 is Called biosolids after done. So if there's an additional 636 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,500 treatment process, I'm not suggesting. 637 00:33:47,500 --> 00:33:49,000 The biosolids are clean. They're not. 638 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000 And in our opinion, they need much further Trio. 639 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:52,300 I do. That's why we're doing what we 640 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:54,000 do. Take that that material which 641 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,100 has a lot of valuable carbon, and nutrients and clean it so 642 00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:01,100 that it can be safely and properly used as an agricultural 643 00:34:01,100 --> 00:34:03,800 soil amendment or fertilizer. So that's, that's really the 644 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,900 difference. Biosolids are the quote unquote, 645 00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:09,000 treated material, that comes out of a sewage treatment plant and 646 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,100 it's not sewage sludge and it's not liquid, it's a solid. 647 00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:15,000 So, there is a It's between the two things and that's okay, 648 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,199 that's the difference. And you're not bringing sewage 649 00:34:17,199 --> 00:34:19,300 sludge, we're not bringing skips Legend everything. 650 00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:21,699 We've been accused of is will be burning sludge. 651 00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:24,000 We don't. Our process does not burn any 652 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,500 solids. We don't burn sewage sludge to 653 00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:28,000 be clear. We do not burn. 654 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,300 Sewage sludge the incinerator up the road or wherever else in New 655 00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:34,400 York state where the incinerators exists at do 656 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,900 receive trash and municipal waste which often includes 657 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,600 biosolids. They are burning it well. 658 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,800 So that was one of my other questions was and Something you 659 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:48,000 said earlier, kind of said that like you know let's just pretend 660 00:34:48,100 --> 00:34:52,300 there's no no Saratoga biochar, what happens to those biosolids? 661 00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:54,199 Now I'm set sewage sludge now, where were you? 662 00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:55,900 I'll tell you exactly where it goes. 663 00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:58,100 And I'll be as quick as I can because I know were pressed for 664 00:34:58,100 --> 00:35:01,900 time, but just just to back up a step, we're not an incinerator. 665 00:35:02,100 --> 00:35:05,000 There are incinerators out there that do burn biosolids. 666 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:09,000 They burn the solids, and, and all that material, including 667 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,200 only partially remediated pfos goes up into the The air. 668 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,000 It's not all caught in the air. Scrubbers not by, not by a long 669 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:17,700 shot. Does, it doesn't Glens Falls. 670 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:18,900 Have an incinerator. Yes. 671 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:20,200 Yeah. Right up the road. 672 00:35:20,300 --> 00:35:23,300 Yeah, right like, wouldn't it be nice if some of the material 673 00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:26,400 divert gets diverted from that incinerator, to our facility, 674 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,500 where can be properly handled where we're not burning it 675 00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:29,400 putting up me? That's it. 676 00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:31,400 So, that's what that, that was something that I was thinking 677 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:32,700 about to. I'm like, I don't understand. 678 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:35,600 So Glens Falls waste water, treatment plant, which is 679 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,800 located on Sherman Town, Road once Falls. 680 00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:39,500 And I just happen to know that because I used to have a 681 00:35:39,508 --> 00:35:43,400 business on Sheridan long story, but right off of warrants Eight, 682 00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,200 they burn it there. You know, I have to be careful. 683 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:48,700 I don't know what their, I don't know what that Warren Street 684 00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:51,300 facilities per Min includes. I really don't know if they 685 00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:54,800 actually are permitted to take and incinerate biosolids. 686 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,900 But if they do that wouldn't happen anymore after our 687 00:35:57,900 --> 00:36:01,400 facilities built and but we do know other, I do know of other 688 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,900 incinerators in the state that are permitted to receive and 689 00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:08,500 incinerate biosolids along with municipal waste trash okay, 690 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,300 which is an our opinion, a horrible practice but back to 691 00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:14,300 your question, Question about where to biosolids? 692 00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:16,000 Go currently in the state of New York? 693 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:19,200 Well, first of all, interestingly 25% of the 694 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,800 biosolids generated in the state get trucked or train hauled out 695 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,000 of the state because we're running on a landfill space, we 696 00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,600 don't have anywhere to put it and and we're not permitting. 697 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,500 New landfills is extremely difficult in New York state at 698 00:36:31,500 --> 00:36:33,600 this point in time to develop a new landfill. 699 00:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,200 So the question begs the question how long are other 700 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,600 states going to want to take our, you know what? 701 00:36:39,700 --> 00:36:43,900 So we have endless examples of where it's Hauled by train at a 702 00:36:43,908 --> 00:36:47,700 tremendous Transportation cost. Bear in mind biosolids is even 703 00:36:47,700 --> 00:36:50,300 though it's a solid is still 75 percent water content, so we're 704 00:36:50,300 --> 00:36:53,900 hauling water around all over the country as far as Colorado, 705 00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:57,900 Texas, Tennessee, I think currently by train is very, very 706 00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:59,700 expensive. It's a foolish way to handle 707 00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:03,300 this material, and it's only because we're not, we don't have 708 00:37:03,300 --> 00:37:05,300 a system here in New York to handle it properly. 709 00:37:05,500 --> 00:37:09,400 So, 25% gets hauled out of state landfills accepted incinerators, 710 00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,800 accepted that, that that comes to an end pretty quickly because 711 00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,700 Because it just stinks and nobody wants it and rightly. 712 00:37:15,700 --> 00:37:21,100 So secondly, how is it handled here in the state about 65% gets 713 00:37:21,100 --> 00:37:24,700 the land filled. Most landfills are designed to 714 00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:29,000 you know, to attend to water. Drainage when the landfill and 715 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,300 not have leachate and up in the groundwater. 716 00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:34,200 But there's no guarantee. So, you know, biosolids 717 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,600 leachates could be, you know, making their way out of the 718 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,400 landfill on surface water or through. 719 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,800 Groundwater, it certainly, it must happen. 720 00:37:43,300 --> 00:37:46,500 You know, I'm sure it happens. So there's that it's a 721 00:37:46,500 --> 00:37:49,400 tremendous nuisance odor. It's usually used on the top of 722 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,300 the trash pile because it makes it makes a good covering for. 723 00:37:53,300 --> 00:37:59,000 It gets mixed with soil to cover an area that a cell, a landfill 724 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:01,300 cell that's been filled with with municipal waste and so 725 00:38:01,300 --> 00:38:04,300 therefore it's right on top and so it rots and it stinks in the 726 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:06,100 neighborhood. If you smell a landfill from two 727 00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:07,600 miles away, it's probably not the trash. 728 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,300 It's probably the biosolids that you're smelling routing 729 00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:13,300 biosolids. And so, a lot goes to Most goes 730 00:38:13,300 --> 00:38:15,800 to landfills, a good chunk, goes to incineration where it gets 731 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,600 directly, the solids are directly burned and that's a 732 00:38:18,607 --> 00:38:23,100 tremendous waste of valuable material carbon and nutrients 733 00:38:23,100 --> 00:38:25,100 and puts a lot of carbon carbon dioxide. 734 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,300 Carbon dioxide equivalence and other, contaminants up into our 735 00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:32,500 atmosphere and then additionally, quite a fair 736 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:36,900 amount of and I think around 16% New York state gets put towards 737 00:38:36,900 --> 00:38:39,900 what's called an alternative or benefit quote-unquote beneficial 738 00:38:39,900 --> 00:38:42,800 use, its composted and and directly. 739 00:38:42,900 --> 00:38:46,500 Applied as a fertilizer. And that's probably one of the 740 00:38:46,500 --> 00:38:50,100 things that our company ethos is most of her stew because that 741 00:38:50,100 --> 00:38:52,400 takes that material, which does have Trace Amounts of 742 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:55,200 contaminants, and frequently puts it right back into the 743 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:59,400 human food chain. Now, in my opinion, is stupid. 744 00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:01,100 And that's like, what happened in Maine. 745 00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:03,200 That, that is exactly what happened in Maine. 746 00:39:03,500 --> 00:39:05,700 We are diametrically opposed to that. 747 00:39:05,700 --> 00:39:07,900 That's, we do the exact opposite of that. 748 00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:12,000 We decontaminate that material. Make it into a clean, fertilizer 749 00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:14,900 lab. Eli's guaranteed analyzed 750 00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:20,300 certified clean for use as a fertilizer in matter of fact, so 751 00:39:20,300 --> 00:39:24,000 clean that it will take some time and probably a couple of 752 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,100 years of consistent lab testing of our product, but it is our 753 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:30,900 goal in the end, to get a USDA organic certification for that 754 00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:33,900 material, we may never get it, but we're going to come darn 755 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:36,400 close and we're going to try its that it is that clean. 756 00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:38,700 So I know we're over our time, but I did one last quick 757 00:39:38,700 --> 00:39:40,900 question because I just, I literally just saw this comment 758 00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:44,900 on Facebook this morning. That someone had said something 759 00:39:44,900 --> 00:39:47,400 about like you wouldn't put on your own garden or something 760 00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:49,300 like that. Would you would you put your 761 00:39:49,300 --> 00:39:52,000 product on your own garden? I would absolutely put. 762 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,100 My product are biochar, our carbon fertilizer on my own 763 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:57,900 garden for food production for myself and my family. 764 00:39:58,900 --> 00:40:02,600 What may that, that that Facebook post may have been 765 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:08,000 referring to, by using biosolids untreated biosolids as a 766 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:09,800 fertilizer. Which again, I totally agree. 767 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,700 That's crazy. It should not be used for human 768 00:40:12,700 --> 00:40:13,900 food. Food production and should also 769 00:40:13,900 --> 00:40:18,700 not be used for growing plant matter, that's consumed by 770 00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:21,400 animals that we then eat because some of those contaminants and 771 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,800 bile salts can bio accumulate make their way up through the 772 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:25,500 food chain, and end up on our plate. 773 00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,900 That's crazy. Yes, it is, we can do better. 774 00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:34,000 I agree, right. Thanks again for coming on today 775 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:37,700 and kind of help into I mean I feel a little less confused, 776 00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:40,300 that's for sure. And you know one more time I 777 00:40:40,308 --> 00:40:46,000 think if if anybody has questions, you know, it's my, 778 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,500 can you give us the information on the Monday session one more 779 00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:49,500 time? Yeah. 780 00:40:49,500 --> 00:40:52,700 So there is a public participation virtual meeting 781 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,100 being held on Monday evening at 6 p.m. 782 00:40:57,100 --> 00:40:59,600 Monday. December 19th information to 783 00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:02,200 access Is that meeting can be found on our website that 784 00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:09,000 Saratoga biochar.com /p p p, which is short for public 785 00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:13,500 participation plan again. Saratoga biochar.com /p p p 786 00:41:13,500 --> 00:41:16,400 there you'll find information on how to access the meeting as 787 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:19,900 well as all of the links relative to our environmental 788 00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:22,300 permit applications. It's awesome. 789 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:23,800 Well thanks again. I appreciate it. 790 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:27,600 And you know if you're listening and you have someone or know 791 00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,100 someone that is also as confused as I I was maybe send this 792 00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:34,400 podcast over to him, sending the link, you'll be able to find it. 793 00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:38,600 On both Saratoga Business Report, Glens Falls today and 794 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,400 Saratoga today.and outside of Saratoga Today newspaper.com. 795 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:45,000 Thanks one other. Sorry mum. 796 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,000 Yeah, no. Don't have one other real quick 797 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:49,400 thing for listeners that are interested in direct 798 00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:52,200 interaction. You can use our company, email 799 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:57,900 address, it's called info. I NF 0 at Saratoga biochar.com. 800 00:41:58,200 --> 00:41:59,800 That's awesome. I know that you have been 801 00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:02,100 Remember I was sitting in planning board meeting in. 802 00:42:02,300 --> 00:42:04,600 You'd actually given one of the the local residents, your cell 803 00:42:04,600 --> 00:42:06,300 phone told him to call your text. 804 00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:09,600 You if there's any issues. Absolutely appreciate that 805 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:10,400 right. Thanks again. 806 00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,200 Thanks for listening everybody. Thanks Mike.