1 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,000 This episode is brought to you by Gnosis. 2 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,680 Gnosis builds decentralized infrastructure for the Ethereum 3 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,480 ecosystem with a rich history dating back to 2015 and products 4 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,200 like Safe Cow Swap or Gnosis Chain. 5 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,120 Gnosis combines needs driven development with deep technical 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:36,360 expertise. 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Cos One is one of the biggest 18 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,240 node operators globally and help you stake your tokens on 45 plus 19 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:26,840 networks like Ethereum, Cosmos to last year and dydx. 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,640 More than 100,000 delegators stake with Chorus One, including 21 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,080 institutions like Bit Go and Ledger. 22 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,600 Sticking with Chorus 1 not only gets you the highest years but 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,520 also the most robust security practices and infrastructure 24 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:45,040 that are usually exclusive for institutions. 25 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,760 You can stake directly to Chorus One's public note from your 26 00:01:48,760 --> 00:01:51,960 wallet, set up a white table note, or use the recently 27 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:56,680 launched product Opus to stake up to 8000 ETH in a single 28 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,760 transaction. You can even offer high yield 29 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,160 staking to your own customers using their API. 30 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,280 Your assets always remain in your custody, so you can have 31 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:10,479 complete Peace of Mind. Start staking today at Corus .1. 32 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,560 Welcome to Epicenter of the show, which talks about the 33 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,240 technologies, projects, and people driving decentralization 34 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:18,920 and the blockchain revolution. I'm Sebastian Kritio and I'm 35 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:22,720 here with Brian Crane. Today we're speaking with Gil 36 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:27,120 Binder and Yair Klepper, Co founders and respectively, CTO 37 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:32,600 and CEO at Lava Network. Lava is an innovative project 38 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:37,680 that aims to decentralize data provisioning for blockchains. 39 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,640 I like to call it Uber for blockchain data, and so we're 40 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:44,920 going to be diving deep into Lava today and understanding how 41 00:02:44,920 --> 00:02:48,080 it works, the different participants of the network, and 42 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,480 what it means for decentralized application development. 43 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,120 Hey, guys. Thanks for joining. 44 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,560 Hey, how are you? Super exciting to be here. 45 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:58,840 I'm trying to think when was my last podcast with Gil. 46 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,040 I can't, I can't remember pleasure to be here. 47 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:05,840 Great to be here guys. Cool. 48 00:03:05,840 --> 00:03:07,520 Yeah. Thanks so much for joining us. 49 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:11,080 Can you guys just walk us through like, what is the high 50 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:14,080 level vision of lava? What is the problem that you're 51 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,560 trying to solve? Yeah. 52 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,520 Definitely. I think you know every great 53 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,640 solution that started in the war in the world in general, 54 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:27,560 especially in blockchain, had some thesis behind that and we 55 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:33,720 jumped into into lava about 2 1/2 years ago, almost three 56 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:40,240 years it was developing MEVNFT slapping and you know he dragged 57 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,960 me in to jump into the rabbit hole and we explore the the the 58 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:47,360 gap that there is about the RPC service. 59 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,440 That basically was rubbish and super unreliable. 60 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:56,040 So we thought that you know the most of the web three is the 61 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:59,920 core data that at the end of the day there are a few 62 00:03:59,920 --> 00:04:04,120 infrastructure providers there. So this is how Lava began. 63 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,080 It began exactly I was I mentioned before is the Uber for 64 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,080 notes. So building a resilient, 65 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,920 scalable and decentralized RPC network that every developer can 66 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:17,160 plug into and get service. Today you can get this service 67 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,720 from more under the 300 providers and it's super 68 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:26,320 reliable and super scalable. But that was two years ago and 69 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,800 we see that there was maybe a handful of different chains back 70 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:34,960 then and since then the web three evolved. 71 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,800 You know we we've seen many different shaping events kind of 72 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,040 the, you know the the lunar crash and today we have Bitcoin 73 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:46,800 ETFs, we didn't think about that two years ago. 74 00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,960 So it means it meant to us that the the problems that back then 75 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:54,800 developer has today, they're much more bigger. 76 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,160 It's not only in the larger scale, but today they spread 77 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,720 across of hundreds of different blockchains. 78 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:06,160 So obviously the key innovation here that enabled that is what 79 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:10,800 we call the modular blockchain and modular blockchains were 80 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,520 very interesting to me back then, two years ago I think 81 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,000 Mustafa mentioned that in his white paper a lazy Ledger, it 82 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,880 called it pluggable, maybe a less sexy name. 83 00:05:20,280 --> 00:05:24,560 But today everyone talk about modularity, right chain 84 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,960 obstruction and obviously the main thesis for now is building 85 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:32,960 hundreds and thousands of blockchain. 86 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,480 And this is what modularity will create over the very near 87 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,360 future. And we've seen that there are 88 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,040 three main layers for modular blockchain. 89 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:44,640 You have the execution, the execution layer, you have the 90 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,240 data availability and consensus layer and you have the 91 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,680 settlement layer. But as we see more and more 92 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:56,160 blockchain, while Celeste for example made it 100 X time 93 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:01,480 easier to roll up one, we've think that there is a 94 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:08,640 convergence in which every every roll up, every L1, every layer 95 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:11,840 that's going to come up, every bloch that come up will need. 96 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,360 And this is the data access layer. 97 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:17,800 It started with RPC and indexing. 98 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,320 And you know if for those here who doesn't know what's RPC, 99 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,280 basically communication protocol in order to query data every 100 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:31,120 time you open the meta mask wallet making a transaction. 101 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,440 Basically it's ARPC request if you check the account balance. 102 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,200 So Madamask is querying the blockchain for that. 103 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:44,520 And today, in order to scale the apps over blockchain, they need 104 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,640 to get access to data, right? But what's the point? 105 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:50,480 What's the point of storing the? Yeah, just jumping in a little 106 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,840 bit. I'm curious like, so there's a 107 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,880 lot of, like different things one could do in crypto, right? 108 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,320 A lot of different business models, use cases. 109 00:06:58,840 --> 00:07:02,640 Like, what was it about this particular problem that you know 110 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,040 you found so exciting? Like, why I built this? 111 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,440 Why not something else? It's really a great question. 112 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:13,400 You know, when I started in web three we were like doing MEV 113 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,720 stuff, you know, writing bots to snipe tokens and to snipe NFTS 114 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:19,320 and some other really cool stuff. 115 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,440 And it was a huge struggle to just have the nodes right. 116 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:28,840 So if you were trying back then to get the data to run all these 117 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:32,440 operations, you needed to either use like centralized providers 118 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,120 like Inferior Alchemy, which sometimes were just very slow. 119 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,120 It's just not fast enough for this type of operation. 120 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,320 But you also weren't sure that the data is up to date like that 121 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:45,240 you're getting the latest block and this is, you know, what 122 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:49,040 makes or breaks a trade. It's super critical for for the 123 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,280 bot of the latest data. So we started with that. 124 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,240 So I was running some bots, you know, I was running some notes 125 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:55,840 here next to me. I had some machines running some 126 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,600 notes, and then I wanted to do the same thing on Polygon, 127 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,280 right. So I was like, OK, now I need to 128 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,160 run Heimdall and you know, I need to run Gore, I need to run 129 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,480 more and more nodes. And then I want to do it on 130 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:13,720 Avalanche, you know, And he just became such a struggle and I 131 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,720 realized, you know, this is not scalable. 132 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,760 There's no way that I can keep, you know, writing and running 133 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,080 all the services myself in a way that's scalable and performance. 134 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,680 And I think this is, I think this is one of the core problems 135 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,560 in Web Three. If you take it out into the 136 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,320 bigger picture in which it's just fragmentation, every single 137 00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:37,799 blockchain, every rollout, they have their own concepts, they 138 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:44,240 have their own data access. And this creates this huge user 139 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:46,560 experience problem for everybody. 140 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,360 If it's like, let's say you want to trade on a wallet, you know 141 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,680 you're getting an AirDrop from somebody, You have to get 142 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:56,840 another wallet, another wallet, You have to figure out what cast 143 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,200 token is being used. And I think this connects with 144 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,400 their longer vision. Yes, you have Celestia, you have 145 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,440 Dimension, and then I think one of the key unlocks is heavy lava 146 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,760 on top of that. And then making everything 147 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:15,320 connect. All of those chains, they need 148 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:18,560 access to the data. They're useless without all 149 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:21,480 these raw OPS on Eigenlayer, on Ethereum. 150 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:24,120 And this is what we do, right? We're building this 151 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:29,600 permissionless network that lets anyone showing give service to 152 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,320 any of these blockchains in a very easy way. 153 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:38,280 So I think the long term vision is like making all web three 154 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:43,920 like A1A one or two or three, but top three like super usable 155 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:48,240 experiences. With our PC. 156 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,680 I mean today, right. Like you described, I think the 157 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:53,720 problem well, right. Like OK, you want to do 158 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,320 something on one chain and then you need to snow and now another 159 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,160 chain, you know and of course this. 160 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,880 Yeah, like a lot of projects applications are struggling with 161 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:08,600 this and and so they like how like free lava, right. 162 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,920 If you ignore lava like how are people are? 163 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:14,560 I mean my understanding is right. 164 00:10:14,560 --> 00:10:18,160 They mostly use centralized providers like you know Alchemy, 165 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:23,920 quick Notes, chain stack, maybe inferior things like that. 166 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,360 How would you rate the quality of those products? 167 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:31,000 Like what is the What's sort of the weaknesses and problems with 168 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:35,520 the centralized RPC providers? So I think some of them provide 169 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,880 amazing service, you know, I think they optimized the service 170 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,200 very well. For example Alchemy on an on 171 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,000 Ethereum is really good, you know quick now it is really good 172 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,120 service and Fewer Eyes is a pretty decent service as well. 173 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,880 So I think that there are trade-offs to be to talk about. 174 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,280 But if you look at the numbers of supported chains, they're 175 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:59,040 very small because it's very hard to optimize for many many 176 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:02,560 chains and you might be a champion or like provide the 177 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:07,000 best infrastructure for a single chain and like write your own 178 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,560 layer of caching and optimizations to make very make 179 00:11:10,560 --> 00:11:14,040 it very cost efficient and fast But to scale it up to many 180 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,560 chains and this comes back to the core issue. 181 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,480 You need to be an expert in that specific chain and this is where 182 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,200 Lava is different. First, it's not just one 183 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,880 provider. It can be if you are quick node 184 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:29,760 and Alchemy all competing. It's like a death match. 185 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,840 Like imagine like all the bots are fighting who's giving the 186 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,760 best service and in the end you have like the few champions are 187 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,680 getting the belts and this is what Lava is like. 188 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,400 It's a competition between the providers to give the best 189 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,520 service. So in every single chain of this 190 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,800 competition and whoever comes up with the brightest, you know, 191 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,000 most unique, most novel way to optimize wins and that 192 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:59,680 translates to really good user experience for the user and the 193 00:11:59,680 --> 00:12:03,520 most rewards for that provider. So it kind of makes sense. 194 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:05,440 OK. Yeah. 195 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:06,960 Thanks so much, Gil. That was very helpful. 196 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,920 So basically is you feel like one of the main value 197 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:15,280 propositions is that the centralized RPC providers, they 198 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,560 can only cover sort of a limited amount of networks and they're 199 00:12:18,560 --> 00:12:21,400 going to have a hard time scaling that up and maybe 200 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,800 especially if you see like a big increase in number of chains. 201 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:33,000 And then with Lava you can have a sort of uniform like developer 202 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,160 experience uniform way to integrate RPCS across, you know 203 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,320 like all the different chains. And because then you can have 204 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,880 different providers basically sort of together providing a 205 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,120 service and some focusing on different chains. 206 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,960 So be of course, being way easier to scale to like, you 207 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,840 know, support a much larger number of chains. 208 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,040 Exactly. Lava is like a distribution 209 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,560 channel for these providers. Think about it that way. 210 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:03,560 They can write the best code, run the best operation and 211 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,320 infrastructure, and then they compete on this battleground and 212 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:08,960 in the end they get all the users, the best ones. 213 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,720 So they're able to iterate, are able to innovate, they're able 214 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:17,920 to build the best data access, you know, capabilities and then 215 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,520 they can win and get more rewards. 216 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,840 And this is a real time, so over time they they can get better or 217 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,120 get worse versus their opponents. 218 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,360 I guess the big question that comes up for me here and I think 219 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,320 that maybe Ty serving the next topic, if you actually want to 220 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:38,520 go a bit deeper in here is I guess one of the, I mean I 221 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,320 understand the downside of the central SRBC providers. 222 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,640 But of course the. Upside is there's like a company 223 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,240 and I can sign an SLA and they're going to have a support 224 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,640 thing and I get to call them up and and and you know I can 225 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,680 probably expect a pretty consistent level of service. 226 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,560 Whereas here if you have like all kinds of different operators 227 00:14:02,560 --> 00:14:06,680 for different chains, different, you know, maybe big companies, 228 00:14:06,680 --> 00:14:09,440 small companies. How? 229 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,600 How does that? Work in terms of the quality of 230 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,560 service being provided. It's a really good question, 231 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,320 right. So, so I'll just say quality of 232 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,400 services like at the core of what we've built at Lava, we 233 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:26,000 spent so much time and energy and effort into ensuring that 234 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,080 the quality of services is top notch. 235 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:31,360 And I think it really is on Lava and I think it's only going to 236 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:33,560 get better. It's got, it's I think it's 237 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,080 going to crush everybody else just because we we designed it 238 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,880 from the ground up in such a way that the users are actually the 239 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:43,800 ones rating the provider based on their experience. 240 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:47,520 But I also want to touch on your question about Slas, you know 241 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:49,760 signing contracts because I think these are really, really 242 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,880 important. I also support support is 243 00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,520 critical. You know we spoke, we speak with 244 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,120 let's hear, I think we spoke with approximately 1000 245 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:02,160 projects, you know from the apps to change to ecosystems and 246 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:06,040 getting their feedback on you know what what do they need, You 247 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,640 know how is what whether or not happy right now with their 248 00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,240 infrastructure and support is critical for them. 249 00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:16,280 So the way I see it, you know in this, in this world of Web 250 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:21,560 three, there has to be a way to build a business that also 251 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,640 supports the ecosystem that it serves. 252 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,560 And the way I see it, maybe it's very similar to the Red Hat 253 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,080 Foundation for example, where you have this open source 254 00:15:32,080 --> 00:15:35,720 project or like you have the the Lava network and then you have 255 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,800 this company or multiple companies that basically provide 256 00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:42,240 support for customers the onboarding them through 257 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,720 gateways. So they can use the gateways, 258 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,400 they can pay for these gateways. The clients also pay on chain 259 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:51,520 for the service, but they get the support package, they get 260 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,920 the Slas and they get all these enterprise features, maybe it's 261 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:59,400 on SoC certification so that they can operate under the 262 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,840 standards that they need to. So I think these are these are 263 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,720 two answers. And can you explain what? 264 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:09,720 Gateways are. Yeah, OK. 265 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:13,480 Sorry, I didn't touch on that. But basically when you use Lava, 266 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,720 and we built it like this because we thought this is the 267 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,240 best way to to provide, you know, really good quality 268 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,480 service to everybody. When you use Lava, you don't 269 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:24,160 have to go through any central server. 270 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,920 So think about, you know, centralized servers as basically 271 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,480 like a middleman that sits between you and the and the data 272 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,160 that you want. And this middleman is basically 273 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:38,480 you're going to it and it's going to get the data for you 274 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:40,040 and then it brings it back to you. 275 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,040 He lava, we build it the own way and such. 276 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,520 You talk directly to the providers, so there's no 277 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:47,520 middleman. You directly go to them, you get 278 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:51,000 the data. A gateway is a middleman like 279 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,760 that, only it enables easier access to the data by providing 280 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,360 support and Slas and everything that you mentioned. 281 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:04,440 It's funny, Brian, when you were asking about whether you know 282 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:09,079 you could well when you were comparing to to centralized 283 00:17:09,079 --> 00:17:12,359 providers and you were saying that with a centralized provider 284 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:14,839 you have this SLA and you can call them up and whatever. 285 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,079 I just couldn't help but think, well isn't, I mean that's the 286 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:20,599 same for your bank and you still use blockchain and crypto, 287 00:17:20,599 --> 00:17:22,400 right? I mean, you know, this, this 288 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:25,359 extends to the broader, you know, the broader crypto space I 289 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:30,760 think and and yeah, so it was just like a sort of funny remark 290 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,760 there. You're just using Web two tools 291 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:38,600 in order to operate in web three and for us it didn't make sense 292 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:42,800 in the beginning. And in order to scale to cause 293 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:50,800 the billion daps and people like onboarding on web three, we need 294 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:55,560 the scalability infra. Yeah, no, I I think that answer 295 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:57,480 makes sense. I mean, I I guess one thing, the 296 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:00,960 other thing that comes to my mind here is of course we have 297 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:03,960 we've also seen some decentralized projects actually 298 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,320 doing like an OK job, my understanding or me maybe maybe 299 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:09,960 even good job at support. I think osmosis is like an 300 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:11,840 example, right? Where they're used to community 301 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,800 pool, to like fun teams, to you know, deal with support requests 302 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,280 and generally I've heard like good feedback that seems to be 303 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:22,120 working pretty well. But yeah, the gateway thing also 304 00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:26,000 makes sense. So basically then I would yeah, 305 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,440 like let's say as. A as an. 306 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,360 Operator or like as someone needing RBC, I signed some 307 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:34,400 contract and then I can all, you know, always query. 308 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:39,960 Basically all the requests get routed through that gateway node 309 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,640 and then they can like let's say track up time and if they're 310 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:49,480 issues they troubleshoot it and maybe I can pay them with 311 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,760 dollars or credit card and they pay cause 'cause in the end the 312 00:18:54,760 --> 00:19:00,240 operators would get paid on chain using lava tokens or like 313 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:04,080 how do the payments? Work to the operators. 314 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,600 So yeah, so the way it would work and I think you know the 315 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,000 gateway concept is an open gateway. 316 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:13,080 You know anyone can talk to the foundation put up a governance 317 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:15,880 proposal and start operating gateway the the but the 318 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:20,000 important part and this is also touching on Seb's points I think 319 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:25,600 is which is interesting is that it's it's done in a way that is 320 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:30,120 also familiar to the customer. I think this is in general a way 321 00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:34,800 that you know web three projects need to be able to to give 322 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:36,920 answers to web two type customers. 323 00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:39,840 I think it's, I think it's crucial in the end you want to 324 00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,200 operate with many, many different companies that want to 325 00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,000 use a service and they need some sort of a gateway right, to get 326 00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:48,960 familiar with it because they don't know how to buy tokens and 327 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,160 go on chain and buy a subscription on level. 328 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,520 So maybe it's easier for the first step for them is to pay 329 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,960 this type of gateway operator to buy for them and then give them 330 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,240 the service and then the operator you know goes by 331 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,000 tokens, goes on chain buys it for them with some kind of 332 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,680 referral code. And this is how it works. 333 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,640 And this referral code basically gives that provider a portion 334 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,200 whatever he agreed with the governance. 335 00:20:13,960 --> 00:20:16,640 To now operate this contract. So say you want to buy the 336 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,920 service, you come to this operator, you pay, let's say 100 337 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:26,320 lava, he goes on chain, he buys it for you and he takes a 20% 338 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,000 cut. And then with this 20% he 339 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:33,520 operates, You know the servers, he operates the support centre, 340 00:20:34,080 --> 00:20:38,080 he offers Slas, he does audits and gives you the convenience 341 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,560 that you need for Web 2 project. But if you're a fully Web 3 342 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,000 project and don't need any of that crap, you can just go and 343 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,480 change. You can buy the subscription 344 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,720 with tokens and you don't need to talk to anybody or go for any 345 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:50,160 governance or go for anything else. 346 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,600 Let's go a little bit under the hood here. 347 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,160 I'd, I'd love to get a better understanding of like what the 348 00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,840 network topology looks like. So you know, we talked about 349 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:05,840 some of the like the, the, these operators, but what are all of 350 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:09,440 the roles in the network and how are they interacting with each 351 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,800 other and I think importantly how are they interacting with 352 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:19,400 applications? So I think one of the core 353 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,320 principles that guided us when thinking about Lava and by the 354 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,960 way we are Lava protocol. So the core contributors to the 355 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:33,200 Lava network was to keep it simple, right? 356 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:36,920 We have three different actors, main actors on the chain. 357 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,000 We have the Dapps buying on chain subscription. 358 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:44,480 We have the providers taking Lava in order to participate and 359 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,240 we have the validators that keeping you know keeping the 360 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,880 service running And down into that we see that note providing 361 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,880 note provider serving data modules that they're called 362 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:02,080 specs and those specs are being defined by the Champions that 363 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,080 Gil mentioned before. Champion can be anyone from any 364 00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,040 chain. Whether it's a small upcoming 365 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,160 roll up or it's a used existing chain doesn't matter but just 366 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,840 coming up with the governor's proposal in order to define this 367 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:21,040 spec. Actually it's creating this 368 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,600 unique spec that the dapps can afterward use. 369 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:31,160 So these Dapps in consumer, they using this data and they being 370 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,520 paired off with the off chain peer-to-peer communication 371 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,560 protocol directly to the provider themselves. 372 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,280 So imagine that that from the browser you can get a list of 373 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,720 top providers and receive service. 374 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,160 When Gil mentioned before we were speaking with more than 375 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:54,800 thousands project this year, they constantly refer back and 376 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:56,760 told us about the problems that they're having. 377 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,480 They they're using centralized provider and usually not once, 378 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,080 but then they need to come up with node balancing with 379 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,520 disaster recovery with all of these different things that is a 380 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,120 small DAP, they don't need to do so. 381 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,800 Lava taking this burden away from them and implementing that 382 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:20,000 and give them 99.999 availability of the service. 383 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:26,280 After the service has been done, the DAP signing the transaction 384 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:31,480 and sending back all the different parameters about the 385 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,560 service. So availability, the reliability 386 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,840 of the service, the accuracy and this is made, this is being used 387 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:44,320 for this score to score again the provider for them to get 388 00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,760 more and more service. That's in general the different 389 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,600 actors on the chain. So just one thing, you know, 390 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,600 think about the blockchain like a restaurant and think about 391 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:59,520 specs is like the menu at the restaurant, right? 392 00:23:59,960 --> 00:24:03,360 So the menu of the restaurant tells the people come to eat, 393 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,040 this is what you can have. You can have this type of salad 394 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,120 or this type of soup or entry and this is what specs are. 395 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,760 So for every chain you have these, these different menus, 396 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:17,240 right. And the way we see it is that 397 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:21,240 you know any chain that is launching an OP stack, you know, 398 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,520 like BLAST or any other ones or any chain that is launching on 399 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,800 Dimension, for example, any roll up that is launching on 400 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,600 Dimension or Arbiter, they can immediately, this is the vision, 401 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,840 the spur of the launch, you know, propose this back on 402 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,840 chain, this menu that immediately you have all these, 403 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,560 you know, hundreds of providers who this is their job, this is 404 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,080 their bread and butter. They come in and they're like 405 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,520 we're going to run nodes for this. 406 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,040 We think this is going to, you know, give us a lot of rewards. 407 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,240 They go ahead and run nodes. Then you have, you have this 408 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,680 amazing network of node operators giving all these 409 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:59,160 customers the best service. One thing that you know always 410 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:00,880 happens and we see it every single time. 411 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,120 I think everybody's going to agree with me. 412 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,080 As soon as there's like an AirDrop or there's like a test 413 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,640 net being launched that people start. 414 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,120 So you know, farming we're playing with, the first thing 415 00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:12,480 that happened is the RPC crashes and collapses. 416 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:17,200 We see it every single time. So this is where like lava can 417 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:21,520 completely shine and take over all this usage and scale really 418 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,960 easily. So I want to talk a bit more 419 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:32,280 about this this spec concept. So a spec is a document or 420 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:38,000 specification that a a a chain or project will put forth and 421 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:44,040 then it specifies as a specification does what data to 422 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,160 provide. Does it also specify like how to 423 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,040 in the case of an indexer. For example, let's say we need 424 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:56,920 to fetch like some time weighted average price like some some 425 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,960 some some price or like some complex data feed that requires 426 00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,320 some complex calculations about like pricing data that that is 427 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,440 found on chain. Does the spec also specify how 428 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,760 to arrive at that result so that it can be displayed in the 429 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:19,080 application in the front end? And I think importantly, what is 430 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:22,200 the method by which you know this valid? 431 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:28,000 This data is verified and validated in order to maintain 432 00:26:28,040 --> 00:26:30,320 like accuracy of the data that's provided. 433 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:36,600 That's really good question because yes, it so the spec, it 434 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:40,480 defines as you've said what type of data you can get like a 435 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:41,960 restaurant, like a menu at the restaurant. 436 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,120 OK, you can get the soup, but you want the soup without you 437 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,080 want the salad, but you don't want the dressing you want on 438 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,000 the side, right. So the spec would specify you 439 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,600 can oh, can you get the dressing on the side? 440 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,520 Can you remove the onions? I'm going to have a steak, if 441 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,920 you don't mind. So what's your, you know what 442 00:26:58,360 --> 00:27:01,240 How would you like it cooked? Medium well, So this is what the 443 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:05,800 spec specifies, right? It does not specify, it does not 444 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,480 go into the kitchen and tells the chef, oh, make it like this 445 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,240 or make it like that, right. This is something the spec does 446 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,480 not. This is the burden of the 447 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,480 developers that are building the chain. 448 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,600 So they're building the way to actually go and get the steak, 449 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,280 Make the steak, where to get it from 1 supplier. 450 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:28,160 What it does with the menu. It does tell you what the steak 451 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,600 is, right? Is this a Wagyu A5 or are you 452 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,200 getting some you know something you know low rate. 453 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:37,320 So this does define the the quality, right. 454 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:40,240 So these are I hope, I hope it explains as well. 455 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:43,480 I think it's a really cool concept. 456 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:52,320 So I'm curious so I I mean in the case of IPC then that maybe 457 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,880 it's like slightly less relevant I imagine no because like you 458 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:01,040 have like a chain has this like RP spec or or like maybe but 459 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:04,120 it's like you know it's it's basically like RPC node for like 460 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:07,400 a particular chain is I imagine going to be pretty uniform. 461 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,480 But I guess I wonder is that where this sort of API concept 462 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,680 comes in as well, where someone can make you know a spec for 463 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:20,280 something like you know that you cannot get from a normal RPC 464 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,760 node. And yeah, maybe can you talk a 465 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:28,280 little bit about sort of beyond RBCS and especially like how 466 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,400 Lava can be used to provide AP? Is yes. 467 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,240 So first, it's not uniform at all at all Ryan. 468 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:40,520 It's completely any. Every single Cosmos chain for 469 00:28:40,520 --> 00:28:44,920 example has like a different variations and add-ons and every 470 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:47,800 one of them has a different versions of of Cosmos SDK. 471 00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,880 OK, so every version has a different spec, so it's not, 472 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880 it's super fragmented. This is why RPC is difficult, 473 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,680 that's why it's tough to get right. 474 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,840 This is why we've built it in such a modular way. 475 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,640 The second thing that is important before I get to API is 476 00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,120 that the spec also allows you to specify validations, which is 477 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,960 like how many blocks are you expected to get. 478 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,040 Because a lot of our customers, they want to get, you know, they 479 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,600 want to index the whole blockchain from from block 0. 480 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,000 For that you need to store on many chains, you know, 10 481 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,080 terabytes, 1220 terabytes, maybe even more. 482 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,280 On some chains. This is a huge burden. 483 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,680 Obviously not all every operator can could do that, right? 484 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,400 So This is why we have these types of validations and 485 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,600 extensions. So an extension allows you to 486 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:39,560 say, you know, I'm offering you know, the latest data for the 487 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:42,760 last two weeks, whatever however many blocks it is. 488 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,320 Or you could say I'm an archive node, you know I have the 489 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:49,000 storage and capabilities, but I expect to get paid five times 490 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,960 for archive data because I am taking a bigger burden to touch 491 00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:56,960 on APIs. So yes, the way we've built 492 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,760 specs is a way that allows anyone to write spec in a way 493 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,880 that is supporting of APIs like indexing, like sub graphs, any 494 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:12,120 types of APIs. So you can go and write a spec 495 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,240 that gives you access. And we're working on 496 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,240 partnerships with different indexing projects like Subsequid 497 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,400 for example that that you basically you know copy paste a 498 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,440 subgraph run it on faster infrastructure, faster indexing 499 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,040 using Lava and subsequent and still get all the the many 500 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:37,760 providers quality of service and the the data reliability. 501 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,920 So we we touched briefly on the quality of service aspect which 502 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:46,640 is like very important in the context of RPC and and data 503 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,600 provisioning. How can you go into detail about 504 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:53,600 how the quality of service algorithm works and how to do 505 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:59,160 users that are, you know, pinging RPCS know that they're 506 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,840 going to get a good quality RPC provider or indexer? 507 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:06,640 Yeah, you know, we went to great lengths to make sure that the 508 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,760 the service is really top notch. We really did and it starts from 509 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,440 the from the beginning. Basically, how do you choose the 510 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,880 provider? So you choose the provider based 511 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,640 on how much money, how much stake they have in the system. 512 00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,880 So the more stake they have, the more likely that they will be in 513 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,640 your pairing list. Pairing list is the list of 514 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,120 providers that you can use. Once you have this list, you can 515 00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:34,240 talk to any of these providers. So we've written this very 516 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:38,920 complex engineering feat we call the the provider optimizer. 517 00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,720 It's it's by the way, everything is seamless for you, just like 518 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,920 using a regular RPC. So the RPC, the provider 519 00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:49,880 optimizer is basically like a friend that goes and checks 520 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,320 every provider, Give me the latest block. 521 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,840 Give me the latest block. Whoever is the fastest and has 522 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:58,320 the most relevant fresh information like the latest 523 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:00,200 block, so that you're not looking at all data. 524 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:03,960 It basically saves them at the top of the list and then when 525 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,160 you get the data, you're talking to them. 526 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,000 So let's say you have all these providers, you're in Europe, 527 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,680 right? So someone in, you know, Central 528 00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:18,000 Europe has a server, and he's really, really fast. 529 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:21,520 You're gonna be talking to them. So this is what the RPC, the 530 00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,080 provider optimizer does. Now, as you talk to him, you 531 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,240 start writing down, OK, this guy, OK, it's giving me, you 532 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,000 know, it's fast. It's slow. 533 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:35,840 Oh, here he was, you know, he was not as fast as I expected. 534 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,280 You know move to somebody else, you write his report cards, you 535 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,880 save them and then you send them and then they get on chain from 536 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:44,800 these providers. There's a process I won't get 537 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,680 into it. These report cards go on chain 538 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:53,080 and they affect the providers payout basically. 539 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:58,280 So the provider has an incentive to always provide really good 540 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,680 service. So but it doesn't affect the 541 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,840 whole payout. On top of that, we have what we 542 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:06,760 call excellence, quality of service. 543 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,040 And this is the same report cards. 544 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:13,920 Over time, they accumulate on chain and they are saved in 545 00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:17,360 this, this provider's profile. So this is like a way to build 546 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,080 reputation for a provider on chain. 547 00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:27,040 And then the last step, not too much the excellence, quality of 548 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,360 service score. Their reputation for this 549 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:34,080 provider is also one of the factors that affects its pairing 550 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:35,840 list. So go back to the first step, 551 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,080 it's how much money is taking because if he takes a lot of 552 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,560 money saying I'm serious, I'm here, I can handle your 553 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:46,400 requests. And then over time, how good 554 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,680 were you? And we have all these customers 555 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,520 that are paying and they're using their, you know, payouts 556 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,680 basically to score. If you go back to the menu 557 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,520 example, it's like you have TripAdvisor connected directly 558 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,720 with the with the menu itself. So it gives you constant 559 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,920 feedbacks for the meal you just ate. 560 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:12,880 But it's built in, you don't need afterwards to get 561 00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,520 something. Everything is happening on 562 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:20,120 chain. OK, and so users are rating the 563 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,080 the service providers, it is the end user like the guy who's 564 00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,840 doing the transaction in meta mask, you know on Uniswap or 565 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:32,800 whatever application is using Lava that is doing this rating 566 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,199 or is it the developers? Yeah, it's it's when you say 567 00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:38,040 doing that's that's an interesting way with everything 568 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:39,560 is happening automatically, right. 569 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,679 So during the transaction we are aggregating all the different 570 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:47,280 parameters, all the scalability, the freshness of the data. 571 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,000 So those are being used in order to score the existing 572 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:55,239 transaction, the existing session with the provider and 573 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,880 during during the lifespan, obviously the scoring change 574 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,680 according to the service they they give. 575 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,680 So how does that work if if the actual service is provided like 576 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,000 peer-to-peer without some node in between like, how would you? 577 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,480 How do you even have that information? 578 00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:14,880 That's that's really good question. 579 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,320 I think it's and it's a a bit complex just because of how the 580 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,320 protocol is working and I think you know this is where the 581 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,680 gateways come in and this is where the SDK comes in. 582 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,560 So as I've said in the beginning, you know you can use 583 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:29,520 Lava without any central middleman to do that. 584 00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:32,880 You can use the SDK or you can run your own gateway right? 585 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,480 And this is all open source. The other way is if you use a 586 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:37,320 gateway. If you use a gateway then the 587 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,280 gateway basically scores for you. 588 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:42,840 OK, so this is how it works. Now the spec. 589 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:44,880 That we talked. About, which is like one of the 590 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:49,240 core components of Lava, is basically defining the 591 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,240 communication between the consumer and the and the 592 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,520 provider. So actually there's a, there's a 593 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,320 protocol, there's a network protocol that wraps the actual 594 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,440 RPC query. With everything we just spoke 595 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,200 about, this is like a channel between the consumer and the 596 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,480 provider with everything, the rating, the quality of service, 597 00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:07,560 the conflict detection, which we didn't talk about. 598 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,400 It's a way to ensure that the data is accurate as well. 599 00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,080 Cool. And how does the pricing work 600 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,360 here? How is it determined you know 601 00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:22,440 how much these services cost? You know the beginning. 602 00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,280 We were always giving this answer that, you know, ask us 603 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:27,800 how. How come you were coming up with 604 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,000 this good service and basically we said we took all the top 605 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:34,120 centralized provider pricing list, put it into the ChatGPT 606 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,200 came up with a better price. But the thing behind Lava is the 607 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:45,120 that is a real economy, right. It's a real market that going to 608 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:47,000 balance between the supply and demand. 609 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:52,920 So if you start with a certain price it can goes up and down 610 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,920 based on the demand. So I it can give you an example. 611 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,760 If there is a you know a service, an NFT drop that's 612 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,640 being given in like a place that there are not many supply, 613 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:10,800 obviously the price is going to go up and going to going to 614 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,280 invite more and more providers. Let's say you know suddenly 615 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,360 there there is you know NFT drop and a need in Africa or South 616 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,320 Africa or something and you have only two providers there. 617 00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,600 So obviously the the demand upon the drop going to be higher and 618 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:30,600 higher again and this is how we balancing the, the protocol is 619 00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:33,920 automatically balancing the supply and demand mechanism. 620 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,160 I'll just add that even though we're you know we've been 621 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,400 running in test net with we've already signed contracts with 622 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:46,200 ecosystems and these ecosystems have distributed 10s of 623 00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:47,840 thousands of dollars to providers. 624 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,960 This has already been done and there's hundreds of thousands 625 00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:55,960 more that are going to sign and distributed in this year. 626 00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,320 So I think you know it's already showing, it's lava's already 627 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:05,040 showing instability to really support different blockchains 628 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:10,480 and to touch on the pricing. As I said for for ecosystems 629 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,400 today, you know the way it works is they go to let's say one of 630 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,480 the big centralized providers and they sign a contract. 631 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,560 This contract can be for a whole year, can be for multiple years 632 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,760 and this contracts locks them in to a certain price. 633 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,240 And one of the complaints we've heard from them is that they 634 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:29,400 don't want to be locked in because sometimes the market is 635 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,600 not active and sometimes the market is really active. 636 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:37,320 So they want to be able to balance the payouts to these 637 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,240 node drivers based on the demand. 638 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,080 And I think it makes complete sense, right. 639 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,560 Second pay as you go. So it is the most, the most 640 00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,360 efficient way to to to pay providers. 641 00:38:49,560 --> 00:38:51,240 So this is what is built in love. 642 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,680 So these ecosystems like Efmos, like XLR, like Near and and many 643 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,040 others that are signing and have signed already, they are able to 644 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:03,600 set their own budget. They're saying this month or 645 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:09,360 next three months I'm going to put let's say 10,000 lava tokens 646 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,360 in the in the pool, on chain, in this, on the spec, on the menu 647 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:17,480 and then all the providers know this month you get it 10,000. 648 00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:22,280 So they can decide is this worth enough there OK, there's 1000 649 00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:24,320 providers. Does it make sense for me to 650 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,360 join? Maybe not. 651 00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:28,480 OK, there's 20 providers. Does it make sense From Yes. 652 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:30,880 Hell yeah. You know, if I'm good, I can get 653 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,680 a really good share of the pie. And This is why it's a dynamic 654 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,880 market. Interesting. 655 00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,440 Yeah. So, so there is this kind of 656 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,560 like market equilibrium that you know you hope to achieve here 657 00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:50,360 depending on like demand and you know how well networks are being 658 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,120 served. Is this something you've already 659 00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,920 demonstrated with the networks on which you've been, you've 660 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:02,960 been working with like that data providers rearrange and 661 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,760 reposition themselves on particular networks when demand 662 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,280 is higher and retract when demand is lower? 663 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:14,240 We've been able to demonstrate that using Lava you you're able 664 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:19,520 to give an excellent top notch service of RPC and attract many 665 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,360 providers, but the payout has been constant. 666 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:26,080 In the near future as we launch Mainnet, I believe this is going 667 00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:28,720 to change and it's going to be much more dynamic, but it's a 668 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:30,320 process that will happen over time. 669 00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,280 We are seeing that and this is already live on test net that 670 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,720 these rewards they make sense for providers to run and give 671 00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:41,040 really good service. We've, we've received a lot of 672 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,360 praise for the different services we're offering to these 673 00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:48,040 ecosystems and we're seeing inbound from other chains that 674 00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:51,640 have recently launched test Nets and has been struggling. 675 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:55,040 They're reaching out to us asking can we use the same 676 00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:57,880 incentivization model to bring in more providers for our 677 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,880 network. So we're definitely seeing it 678 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,720 taking off. Yeah, and I think it bears 679 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:10,920 reminding people that Lava has been in test net for a while, 680 00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,600 but that it it's actually like working with live chains. 681 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,360 So even though the network is in test net, all of the data 682 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:23,000 providers are actually providing like real data and there's 683 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:27,560 something like 30 or 35 networks currently live on Lava, correct? 684 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,480 Yeah, it's a production grade system, right, Right now, like 685 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,600 for for one year. And I just want to touch upon 686 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,960 the previous, you know what brought us to ecosystem because 687 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,280 Lava started as a decentralized service and today everyone is 688 00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,280 talking about decentralized RPC service. 689 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:49,720 But then we got approaches by ecosystem to solve and take away 690 00:41:49,720 --> 00:41:54,680 the burden of public RPC. Because public RPC is the first 691 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:57,240 stop of every dev into the ecosystem. 692 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:04,960 So if the ecosystem is able to provide a scalable service RPC 693 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,480 and then APIs and solve these you know headaches of how do 694 00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:14,920 they accessing data for different apps, It goes without 695 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,920 saying. So ecosystem came back to us and 696 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,200 told us can Lava actually provide this public RPC, can 697 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,360 they give, can you give us insight into the ecosystem And 698 00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,880 obviously we jumped into that and we presented in October 1st 699 00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:35,160 time that incentivize public RPC when the ecosystem put in 700 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,480 incentives for different provider to join 701 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:41,000 permissionlessly and get reward for the service they give. 702 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:44,920 And we started doing that in Ivmos and afterwards in Axel R 703 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,960 we just announced near and all of this distribution of the 704 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:53,000 different rewards being being done only in the last few 705 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,280 months. So working on three different 706 00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,840 chains. So in the pipeline we have now 707 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,400 from 5 core and Starknetcoy Agoric and more are coming to 708 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,600 level. OK, very cool. 709 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:10,360 One thing I wanted to inquire about as well is relayers. 710 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:14,960 So one of the issues, you know, particularly in cosmos chains is 711 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,400 that like realays are not incentivized for their work. 712 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:24,440 Does Lava facilitate the matching of, you know, chains 713 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:28,760 and relayers as well, or is that completely outside of the scope? 714 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:31,760 Yeah. I think that you know we're 715 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:35,840 seeing a lot of discussions around IBC and it's fundamental 716 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:38,920 design and I think you know IBC has been an incredible protocol 717 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:45,120 that really puts you know cosmos lights here ahead of any other 718 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,920 ecosystem. But in at its core there's a 719 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:53,560 core issue with payments for real layers and I think that we 720 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,240 will definitely be able to see Lava help with that. 721 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:01,640 Right now our focus is launching mainnet, you know bringing the 722 00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:07,680 power of of you know the modular unlocked as we can do with lava 723 00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:12,200 to to chains and roll ups. You know they're built on Eigen 724 00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:16,880 layer on Ethereum, on dimension. But for sure, you know once 725 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:20,240 we're, you know we're more, we're done with that, we're 726 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:24,440 definitely be able to help with relayers and and try to solve 727 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,400 core issues like that in the Cosmos ecosystem as well. 728 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,440 So you mentioned model again. Yeah, you mentioned it earlier. 729 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,960 So of course I understand that you know for also modular chains 730 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,440 roll ups, well you still need RPC, you still need this thing. 731 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,640 So I understand how like you know the you know lava stack is 732 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:48,560 still is still relevant in that kind of modular world. 733 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:52,920 But I'm curious is, is there more to this or? 734 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,640 What do you see? As sort of the connection 735 00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:03,680 between lava and modular chains. If you look at you know Web 3, 736 00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:07,840 right, if you look at what's happening today, I think that 737 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,360 everyone's coming to the same conclusion, right. 738 00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:15,360 There's going to be an explosion of chains, but how many chains 739 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,920 are going to be like the full purpose, not specific purpose, 740 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,120 Like if you're on full purpose, you know you can run anything 741 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,600 you want, smart contract or you have application specific ones 742 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:30,920 on Cosmos or roll ups. So I think, I think it's pretty 743 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,400 obvious that in the future we're going to have all these chains, 744 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:36,680 they're going to explode, they're going to be super 745 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:41,400 successful, but how do you weave one path through all of them? 746 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:45,400 It's super difficult. And it sucks. 747 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,480 I mean, it sucks today trying to use all these chains. 748 00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,280 It sucks. It's really, it's really 749 00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:53,160 difficult even for, you know, I'm a tech user and consider 750 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:55,560 myself a power user. It's difficult for me to keep 751 00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,800 track of all the chains and all of my assets across all of them 752 00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:02,000 and to interact with them and and bridge tokens and make sure 753 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,920 I'm using the right bridge and don't get hacked. 754 00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:07,560 Until we solve this core issues, we're not going to have a good, 755 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,520 a good system. And one of the things that we're 756 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:12,920 seeing prop up and I've been thinking about it a lot is how 757 00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,240 do you like imagine the future Web Three, you have one wallet 758 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,120 and it has access to all of the chains and it shows you the 759 00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:24,040 assets on all of your chains And you don't care where your assets 760 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:25,560 are. You don't care if they're you 761 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,760 know on on you know Cosmos, Habi don't care if the the assets are 762 00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:32,200 on Ethereum Arbitrum, you don't care where they are. 763 00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,560 They're just there and you want to move them somewhere. 764 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:36,200 No problem. You don't need to think about 765 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:41,800 wait, do I have Osmosis OSMO token to perform the trade to do 766 00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,720 to move the tokens or do I have this token or that token or 767 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:47,760 start thinking about the gas, you know, so I think the future 768 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,680 of Web Three is some kind of system that allows, you know, 769 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:55,040 for full chain obstruction. So you don't even think, you 770 00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:56,880 don't know what a bridge is, you don't want gases. 771 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,040 This is the only way to reach mass adoption, which I think is 772 00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:03,320 the goal of what we're doing. And when we were thinking about 773 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,760 lava, we think about modularity. We're thinking how can lava be 774 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:12,760 one of these core key unlocks in this, in this stack. 775 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,880 And we see that, you know, OK, there's RPC, we can talk about 776 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,680 RPC all day, but it's really, really boring. 777 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,400 But you have to do it really well, but then you have to be 778 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:23,400 able to launch it really fast for all these chains. 779 00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:26,960 But what if you could, on top of the RPC and on top of the APIs 780 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:32,320 use this now network that has basically stakes from every 781 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:37,000 single ecosystem and all these providers are now staked to 782 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,160 verify the data is correct on lava. 783 00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,760 What if you're able to use that to build song chain abstraction 784 00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:48,280 that enables you to, you know, more freely, move assets around, 785 00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,600 you know, access all the different blocks without even 786 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,120 known and still trusting that the data is correct, still have 787 00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:59,520 everything decentralized. So this is what we're trying to 788 00:47:59,520 --> 00:48:04,160 think of, of the grander vision of of chain abstraction and how 789 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,720 long it fits in and unlocks this. 790 00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:11,480 If I had on top of that you know what you said before when 791 00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:16,160 describing like doesn't matter if you take the monolithic path 792 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,880 thesis right the the modular blockchain or if you go to the 793 00:48:20,880 --> 00:48:24,240 roll up centric all of them need the data access layer. 794 00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:29,680 If you give devs devs the the right tools to build the the 795 00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:33,160 infrastructure, if you build them with you take the burden 796 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,880 away from them from whatever they building. 797 00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,680 This will scale the industry and Seb you mentioned before the the 798 00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,840 banks right? So if there is a 2 providers 799 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:47,400 that you go for them for the data and and two of them is 800 00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:51,320 down, how are you going to get access to your meta mask, How 801 00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:55,560 you can promise your users as a wallet that they can make 802 00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:59,600 transactions, all of that we believe with this modular layer, 803 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:03,800 it's something that Lava is able able to save and we call it 804 00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,800 build whatever, wherever, build whatever it's you build it 805 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:11,920 whatever you want, whatever adapts, not focusing on the 806 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,840 infra and wherever is in the multi chain. 807 00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,640 So can you guys talk about Magma? 808 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,320 Yes, of course. Magma is a super exciting 809 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:28,480 confidential project that's not anymore gonna lie. 810 00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,680 Sorry, but it's not live right. So we're gonna, yeah, it's gonna 811 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:43,840 we're gonna announce it on the 15th of of February and this is 812 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,160 basically brings in non-technical users, all of us 813 00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,960 that have a wallet to share the the Lava vision to share the web 814 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,640 three values. The magma is the point system 815 00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:01,600 that Lava is presenting. It allows any user to use the 816 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:05,600 Lava endpoints chain that at the back end of the wallet in order 817 00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,680 to get access that is super available. 818 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,960 It's decentralized and obviously it's it's scalable. 819 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,000 So basically jumping quickly into the magma. 820 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:21,120 Magma is the phase coming always before the lava and we already 821 00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:24,440 announced that the minute is going to come up soon. 822 00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:32,400 Magma Point system is a signing. It's a program that every every 823 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:38,120 use every user that has a wallet can sign up and start receiving 824 00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:42,720 points for the the usage you do with the wallet. 825 00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:47,000 For transaction you get scores for just watching the wallet. 826 00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:52,840 It also create creates points and because all of them is at 827 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:57,760 the core that making RPC request and every RPC request is being 828 00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:03,040 scored for you as a as a as a user and you can watch it over 829 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,400 the lead port. Cool. 830 00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:09,680 And so, which brings me to my next question, when mainnet. 831 00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:14,520 Mainnet, you know our engineers working around the clock in 832 00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:20,840 order to address the mainnet, we're trying to push for end of 833 00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:25,360 Q1 and yeah, this is a super exciting time. 834 00:51:25,360 --> 00:51:27,280 So, you know, stay tuned for that. 835 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,120 Very cool. And so where where should people 836 00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,240 go if? Well, I guess it's a couple 837 00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:35,880 things right? If you're building application 838 00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:41,800 and want to integrate Lava to provide RPC to your users, like 839 00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,560 there's like one category of people that should check out 840 00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:47,920 Lava. But also, if you're an 841 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:53,400 infrastructure provider and want to provide infrastructure for 842 00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:58,480 the Lava network, where should these categories of listeners go 843 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,120 to? So I think the team did a great 844 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,840 job writing the, the, the documentation. 845 00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:09,360 We have an amazing discord channel with thousands of 846 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:14,840 member, very vibrant and always asking questions, getting 847 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,560 getting them answered by the community themselves for the new 848 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:23,040 users. So start with our website lava 849 00:52:23,040 --> 00:52:26,760 net dot XYZ. You can see there are a lot of 850 00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:30,200 documentation and jumping over this court. 851 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:37,480 We call also the non crypto non tech users to amplify and bring 852 00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:43,320 more of the values of of lava. In the upcoming months, the 853 00:52:43,320 --> 00:52:47,120 foundation will reach out and, you know, present different 854 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:53,080 programs and we all start tomorrow or the 15th of of 855 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,640 February with the Magma with the Magma program. 856 00:52:57,600 --> 00:52:58,600 Cool. Well, thank you. 857 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:00,280 So thank you so much for coming on. 858 00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,600 Actually we just wanted to mention one thing which I think 859 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:04,880 we you should have mentioned the start but we forgot. 860 00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:09,840 So you know as most of you know my main thing is running course 861 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:11,120 one. And with course one we did 862 00:53:11,120 --> 00:53:14,280 invest in Lava and we're running Validator and I think Seb Rip 863 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:18,600 his fund also invested in Lava. So we just wanted to mention 864 00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,720 that. Yes, Interrupt Ventures are also 865 00:53:20,720 --> 00:53:24,320 investors in LAVA, so Full disclosure and running 866 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:25,960 validators. Cool. 867 00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:27,360 Well, thanks so much guys for coming on. 868 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,480 That was super interesting. I think it's definitely 869 00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,040 something that I could see getting a lot of traction right. 870 00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:36,120 And it will be really great to see how this sort of things 871 00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:40,520 evolve once a minute is live and you know over the next year. 872 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:42,080 So thanks so much for coming on guys. 873 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:46,640 Thank you so much. Pleasure being here. 874 00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,000 Cheers. Thank you for joining us on this 875 00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,360 week's episode. We release new episodes every 876 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:56,360 week. You can find and subscribe to 877 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,120 the show on iTunes, Spotify, YouTube, SoundCloud, or wherever 878 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,520 you listen to podcasts. And if you have a Google Home or 879 00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:05,240 Alexa device, you can tell it. To listen to the latest episode 880 00:54:05,240 --> 00:54:09,320 of the Epicenter podcast, go to epicenter.tv/subscribe for a 881 00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:11,000 full list of places where you can watch and listen. 882 00:54:11,000 --> 00:54:13,920 And while you're there, be sure to sign up for the newsletter so 883 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,240 you get new episodes in your inbox as they're released. 884 00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:18,160 If. You want to interact with us 885 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:19,920 guests or other podcast listeners? 886 00:54:20,200 --> 00:54:22,760 You can follow us on Twitter and please leave us a review on 887 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,400 iTunes. It helps people find the show 888 00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:25,880 and we're always happy to read them. 889 00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,080 Well, thanks so much and we look forward to being back next week.