1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,520 So basically what Getcoins trying to do is we're trying to 2 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,840 build the ultimate capital allocation engine for these 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:10,720 ecosystems and allow people to deploy these tokenized 4 00:00:10,720 --> 00:00:13,560 treasuries to allocate them to fund what matters in their 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:15,840 communities. We're seeing a lot of adoption 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,000 by L twos and LSTS and projects that want to use get coin 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:21,440 grants. The power of get coin grants in 8 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:23,520 their own communities, get coins. 9 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:26,360 Flagship product over the years has been this thing called 10 00:00:26,360 --> 00:00:29,440 quadratic funding, and the reason why quadratic funding is 11 00:00:29,440 --> 00:00:32,119 powerful is also one of its vulnerabilities. 12 00:00:32,439 --> 00:00:35,840 As we increase the cost of forgery for attackers, we 13 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,880 accidentally increase the cost for real users to verify their 14 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:58,360 identity with Get Coin Passport. This episode is brought to you 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:01,080 by Gnosis. Gnosis builds decentralized 16 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:03,440 infrastructure for the Ethereum ecosystem. 17 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,200 With a rich history dating back to 2015 and products like Safe 18 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,800 Cow Swap or Gnosis Chain, Gnosis combines Needs Driven 19 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,920 development with deep technical expertise. 20 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:20,240 This year marks the launch of Gnosis Pay, the world's first 21 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,680 decentralized payment network. With a Gnosis card you can spend 22 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,560 self custody crypto at any Visa accepting merchant around the 23 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:31,040 world. If you're an individual looking 24 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,520 to live more on chain or a business looking to white label 25 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:39,320 the stack, visit gnosispay.com. There are lots of ways you can 26 00:01:39,320 --> 00:01:42,880 join the Gnosis journey. 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Your assets always remain in 44 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:49,520 your custody, so you can have complete Peace of Mind. 45 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,640 Start staking today at Chorus .1. 46 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,040 Welcome to Epicentre, the show which talks about the 47 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,800 technologies, projects and people driving decentralization 48 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,240 and the blockchain revolution. I'm Frederica Ants. 49 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,360 And today I'm speaking with Kevin Awaki, who is the founder 50 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,800 of Gitcoin and a grant distribution project originally 51 00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:11,600 on Ethereum and now on a whole lot of other chains as well. 52 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,560 Kevin, you've been on Epicentre before. 53 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,000 Welcome back. It's so glad to be back. 54 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,640 Thanks for having me. Cool. 55 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:22,320 It's been a while since you've been on, I think like two or 56 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,920 three years, so give us your and Gitcoin's back story in a 57 00:03:26,920 --> 00:03:29,840 nutshell. Yeah, for sure. 58 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:34,000 Well, you know one of the cool things about having been in the 59 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,240 space for the last seven years and I think this is my third 60 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:40,040 Epicenter episode is that I actually the first Epicenter 61 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:44,240 episode I did was within a month of the launch of Gitcoin Grants, 62 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,280 which has been the platform that has helped the Ethereum 63 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,480 community fund $60 million worth of open source software and 64 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:54,840 public goods for the Ethereum community. 65 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,520 And that was that was January 2019 that we launched Get Coin 66 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,600 One Point O and that was about the time that I that I appeared 67 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,000 on Epicenter the first time I over the last Over the last 68 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,000 couple years we have been progressively decentralizing Get 69 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,080 Coin and I'm here today to talk about the Get Coin two point O 70 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,040 white paper which outlines our vision for a decentralized Get 71 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,040 Coin. So hopefully taking the power of 72 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,120 Get Coin grants and that $60 million worth of Ethereum public 73 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:24,880 goods that have been funded on the platform and putting in the 74 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:28,160 power of any community that is based on top of the EVM. 75 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,480 So progressively decentralizing and progressively having more 76 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,560 impact over time. Perfect. 77 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:36,920 We'll talk about all of that in just a little bit. 78 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:39,960 Gitcoin leadership has kind of changed somewhat over the years. 79 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,480 So I know you were gone for at least a little bit. 80 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,360 So what's your current involvement? 81 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:51,920 So my current title is Co founder and I am acting CTO of 82 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,520 Grants Lab, which is the organization that is pushing for 83 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:57,760 the software development at the Gitcoin. 84 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,920 Dow Gitcoin, as I said in the intro, has been progressively 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:07,200 decentralizing over time. In 2021 when the Get Coin Dow 86 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,720 launched, we launched the GTC token and the GT and and that 87 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,000 was sort of like a transfer of power from AT. 88 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,000 At the time, Get Coin was a corporation and I was the CEO of 89 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:18,920 it. So all of the decisions sort of 90 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,680 rolled up to me. And when it became a Dow, the 91 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,280 decisions transferred over to the token holders who were 92 00:05:25,280 --> 00:05:27,080 ultimately responsible for the fate. 93 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:31,160 And as part of the transfer of power, our legal team felt that 94 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,280 it was necessary for me to disaffiliate from the project 95 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,880 for at least a little while. And I think I was in total 96 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,160 disaffiliated for 15 or 16 months. 97 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,160 During that time, I was working on a project called Super 98 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,880 Modular, which basically at the time we thought that we would 99 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,920 kind of the setup would be similar to how the Etherium 100 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,040 Foundation builds the Etherium protocol and Consensus Joe Lubin 101 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:59,320 startup builds things on top of it, things like Metamask or or 102 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:01,840 Gnosis. That was kind of the setup 103 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:04,920 between the Get Coin Dow and Super Modular. 104 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:07,880 Super Modular was building software in the Get Coin 105 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,240 ecosystem and Get Coin was building the core protocols 106 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,600 which makes me I guess like one one thousandth of a Joe Lubin. 107 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,480 But we were just building stuff in the in the get coin ecosystem 108 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:22,400 for a couple years and and after that time I ended up 109 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,520 reaffiliating with the project as of I think it was September 110 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,760 of 2023 and I'm glad to be back in the fold and helping push the 111 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,640 the core protocol forward. We're seeing a lot of adoption 112 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:36,800 by L twos and LS TS and projects that want to use get coin 113 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,120 grants, the power of get coin grants in their own communities. 114 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,920 So it's quite an interesting time to be helping people fund 115 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,080 what matters in their communities, because lots of 116 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,320 people with tokenized treasuries that are trying to build active 117 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,760 communities around them. I have to admit that last time I 118 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:53,920 tried participating in the funding round and I've 119 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:56,880 participated in many, many, many funding rounds because you've 120 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:02,440 had like 20 or something, right? I I must admit, I gave up. 121 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,040 I didn't make it. I did not actually make any 122 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:07,880 contribution contributions at all. 123 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:12,840 I think it was like in the late summer or fall last year and I 124 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:17,160 failed at authenticating enough ways to kind of get a Git Coin 125 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Passport or something, something that wasn't necessary to kind of 126 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:23,880 contribute earlier. Tell us about the Git Coin 127 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Passport and why you felt it needed to be introduced. 128 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,160 And I know this wasn't just me. So basically, I know lots of 129 00:07:32,160 --> 00:07:34,880 other people kind of seem to have the same problem on Twitter 130 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,600 at least. Sure, Yeah. 131 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:41,760 Well, certainly value your honest feedback in the road to 132 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,440 progressive decentralization has not been without setbacks. 133 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:47,320 And sometimes there have been many happy to talk about any and 134 00:07:47,320 --> 00:07:51,080 all of them. So basically, get coins. 135 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:53,920 Flagship product over the years has been this thing called 136 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,480 quadratic funding. And the reason why quadratic 137 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,680 funding is powerful is also one of its vulnerabilities. 138 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:03,440 And quadratic funding is a mechanism invented by Glen Weil 139 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,200 from Microsoft, Vitalik Booter and the founder of Ethereum and 140 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,240 Zoe Hetzig. And basically the way it works 141 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,760 is that, Frederique, if you have a grant that raises $100 for 142 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,080 $100 from 100 contributors, and I have a grant that raises $100 143 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:20,240 from 1 contributor, you're going to get 99% of the matching pool 144 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,240 because we're trying to fund what matters to a broad swath of 145 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:25,840 the Ethereum community. So that's really powerful 146 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,840 because it means that lots of people will come out of the 147 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:30,440 woodwork to contribute to these grants because even giving a 148 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:34,559 dollar can get matched with 10s or hundreds of dollars from the 149 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:37,039 matching pool, depending on how big the matching pool is and how 150 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:38,799 many other contributors there are to the grant. 151 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:40,360 OK. So that's really powerful. 152 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,919 We're we're we're pushing power to the edges of the Ethereum 153 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:46,920 community by funding with quadratic funding. 154 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:50,720 But that power is also a drawback. 155 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:56,120 OK, so the the vulnerability in this, and since your listeners 156 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,480 are in the Ethereum community, I'm assuming they're adversarial 157 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,840 thinkers. If if I have $100 to my grant 158 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,240 with only one contributor, and you have $100 to your grant with 159 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:08,720 100 contributors, and you're getting 99% of the matching 160 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:11,720 pool, I have a rational incentive to make up 100 161 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:15,440 different identities in order to contribute to my grant and get 162 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,520 more of the matching pool. So that's what's called a Sybil 163 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,480 attack. It's a sock puppet attack and 164 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:24,800 that's why we've introduced Get Coin Passport into the system to 165 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,680 allow people to verify their identity and increase the cost 166 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:33,880 of forgery in so that your identity cannot be falsified. 167 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,440 Now the problem that we ran into and and keep in mind this is all 168 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,240 like live beta software we're we're kind of trying to figure 169 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,400 it out as we go along is that as we increase the cost of forgery 170 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,360 for attackers we accidentally increase the cost for real users 171 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,000 to verify their identity with Get clean passport. 172 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,480 And not only do we have to, we have to walk this line where we 173 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:58,280 make the system not civil like we have to make the system civil 174 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,720 resistant, but we have to make it privacy preserving and we 175 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,360 have to lower the friction for end users. 176 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,520 So that that's a little bit about why Passport exists and 177 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,800 the problem that we are trying to solve. 178 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,960 And the thing I'll say is that the Passport team has heard 179 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,080 everyone's feedback loud and clear and we they are working on 180 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:23,000 a no friction way of verifying civil resistance. 181 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,000 I can get into that if if it's interesting to your listeners, 182 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,520 but GG20 get Coin Grants 20 is coming up in April, and I would 183 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:34,360 encourage everyone who gave up during get Coin 19 or get Coin 184 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,160 18 to give it another try because we've been putting a lot 185 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:39,640 of work into making the friction way less for people, and I'll be 186 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,800 curious to hear if it paid off. The nice thing about Bitcoin 187 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:45,760 grants is that we've run 20 rounds and it's it's an 188 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:49,920 iteration every single round we take the feedback from our our 189 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,480 community and the feedback from metallic and other game 190 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,240 theorists and try to fold it into the next iteration of 191 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:57,880 Bitcoin grants. So it's a deeply iterative 192 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,720 evolutionary experiment, and we value your feedback because it 193 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,920 helps helps us make it suck less next time. 194 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,320 Tell us. Tell us what you've changed to 195 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:11,720 make it less painful. Yeah, so there's two things. 196 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:13,560 They're both really data science heavy. 197 00:11:13,560 --> 00:11:17,480 So we've been investing in some like PhD level data scientists 198 00:11:17,480 --> 00:11:20,560 to #1. There's a there's a stamp called 199 00:11:20,560 --> 00:11:24,760 the East stamp, which basically goes out and uses a lot of 200 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:28,240 complicated data analysis and machine learning to look at all 201 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,600 the Unchained signals behind your address and to figure out 202 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,120 if you're a Sybil attacker or not. 203 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,680 So like something that that algorithm would find is that if 204 00:11:36,680 --> 00:11:39,320 there's a hundred accounts that are all funded by the same 205 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:41,600 account, that's probably a Sybil attacker. 206 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,000 That's probably someone who's just gassing up a bunch of 207 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:47,480 different accounts so that they can that they can Sybil attack, 208 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,200 Get coin grants. So for the end user that is a 209 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:55,720 just one click connect and sign your message in order to get 210 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,480 above the matching threshold on get coin grants to get that 211 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,600 stamp. And you know before well you 212 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,000 tell me what your experience was in in in GG19 or GG20. 213 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,160 But before you would have to go through and click a bunch of 214 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,960 stamps in order to get up to the threshold and now it should just 215 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:14,160 be a couple of clicks using that machine learning algorithm. 216 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,040 And then the second thing that I just want to talk about really 217 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,120 quickly is this new algorithm that it was invented by Joel 218 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,680 Miller who is a data scientist and on the get coin team called 219 00:12:24,680 --> 00:12:27,000 cluster mapping. And basically what cluster 220 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:32,120 mapping does is it it it's a it's a way of clustering 221 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:35,560 contributors who contribute to the same grants together and 222 00:12:35,560 --> 00:12:37,920 treating them as though they're the same identity. 223 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,760 And so basically if someone's Sybil attacking a get coin grant 224 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:44,680 and they make up 100 new accounts and they all those 100 225 00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:47,520 counts only contribute to the same get coin grant for the 226 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:52,720 purposes of the QF algorithm, they are just one identity and. 227 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,560 And basically if if I was a Sybil attacker trying to attack 228 00:12:56,560 --> 00:12:59,240 Get coin grants, then I would have to contribute to a bunch of 229 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,880 other grants in order to make my identities unique and uncluster 230 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,000 them from each other. And basically what this does is 231 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,080 it takes the energy of the attackers, the funding of the 232 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:11,560 attackers and make sure that they're funding a bunch of 233 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,480 public goods on get coin in order to attack the system. 234 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,560 So it kind of takes like Karate Kid style, takes your opponent's 235 00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:22,960 momentum and uses uses it against uses it against them in 236 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,320 a in a way. So yeah, in some cluster mapping 237 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,360 and the EAT stamp are the two ways that we're really reducing 238 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:32,920 friction using cutting edge data science behind the scenes in 239 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,800 order to prevent Sybil and collusion attacks on QF, but 240 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,360 also keeping the user friction low. 241 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,000 I totally understand the approach. 242 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,640 Is there a way to kind of escalate this if I feel 243 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,360 misclassified? So say, for instance, I told my 244 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:53,040 50 friends that they should definitely give to, say, Rothke, 245 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,320 and they they do, but they only give to Rothke. 246 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,240 So we see there's like 50 people who only give to Rothke because 247 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,840 I told them there's a fantastic project, please give to it. 248 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:08,360 Can I then kind of escalate the fact that kind of they were kind 249 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,000 of, so to say, disqualified from the matching pool? 250 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,800 Yeah, so I mean the first method of of feedback is is contacting 251 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:20,280 the get coin support. So in the bottom right of your 252 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,240 browser window you can chat with someone on the get coin support 253 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,480 team and just say hey I don't agree with this or hey here's my 254 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,960 feedback. Your UX sucks in this browser 255 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,120 combination, web three login combination, that's the first 256 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,200 layer. The second layer is that you can 257 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,480 go to gov.getcoin.co and you can escalate it to the Dow 258 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,680 governance structures. So you know, this is all 259 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,720 transparent political economy happening out in the open and if 260 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,080 you're not happy with the way things that are are working, 261 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,480 then that's another way to escalate things. 262 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,320 And then you know the 3rd way is just complaining on Twitter. 263 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,600 I know that Get Coin has had some missteps in the last year 264 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,440 and a half, and I'm partially responsible for that as the 265 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:04,920 founder and we listen to all that feedback and Get Coin is, 266 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:06,920 like I said, iterative and evolutionary. 267 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:11,000 And you're complaining helps makes make Bitcoin grants 21 268 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,560 better. So please tell us through any of 269 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:15,960 those channels when you when you don't like what you're seeing. 270 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:19,320 Perfect. So maybe let's back up a little 271 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,280 bit. Why is capital allocation a 272 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:26,040 difficult problem that kind of needs this level of 273 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:30,760 infrastructure to tackle? I I think that what we're seeing 274 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:34,080 in 2024 is really quite interesting. 275 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:39,720 We've got thousands of Dows or tokenized communities that have 276 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,760 10s or hundreds of millions, sometimes billions of dollars of 277 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,160 capital in their treasury and they all want to build 278 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,480 ecosystems around their software stack. 279 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,640 And so, you know, Justin Drake was just on a bankless episode 280 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,000 in which he was talking to David about how like the L2 meta, how 281 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:58,520 L2's are competing with each other. 282 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:03,080 And he said that L2's are going to compete for liquidity and on 283 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:08,240 infrastructure and on sequencers and and on tooling and on public 284 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:10,560 goods. And you know, like the one 285 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:14,000 change I would say to to what Justin said is that is that 286 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,280 public goods are are the way that you get all of those other 287 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:19,760 things in your ecosystem. So if you can solve the problem 288 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,920 of capital allocation, you can invite the builders into your 289 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,760 ecosystem to build tooling, to build infrastructure, to build, 290 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,360 to build liquidity. And so basically what get coins 291 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:32,760 trying to do is we're trying to build the ultimate capital 292 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:38,120 allocation engine for these ecosystems and allow people to 293 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,120 deploy these tokenized treasuries to allocate them to 294 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,200 fund what matters in their communities. 295 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,520 So basically the problem of capital allocation is, is how do 296 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,120 we fund what matters in in these communities? 297 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,240 How do we run quadratic funding rounds that that help 298 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,080 incentivize the outer ring of builders in your community? 299 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:58,720 How do we run retroactive public goods funding rounds in in order 300 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,560 to incentivize communities in in order to add value value to 301 00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,760 them. So I I I think that like the 302 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,960 immediate answer in the crypto space is like the most effective 303 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:13,000 tactic available if you're competing as an L2 or an LST or 304 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:16,680 an LRT or AD 5 project is to build a community of of hackers 305 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,720 that are in the orbit of your ecosystem. 306 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,480 And so, you know, that's the near term goal for Get Coin 307 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,480 grants is to help these communities fund what matters to 308 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,960 them in the near future. Now, I think in 10 or 20 years 309 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,120 we're going to take the the tools that we have pioneered in 310 00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:34,480 the crypto space, we and others have pioneered in the crypto 311 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,120 space, and we're going to take the mainstream. 312 00:17:37,120 --> 00:17:40,440 And in 10 or 20 years, I would love to live in a world in which 313 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:44,840 local towns and cities and states are running retroactive 314 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:48,080 public goods funding rounds and quadratic funding rounds using 315 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:49,800 tools that were pioneered in the crypto space. 316 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,240 I think we can do better capital allocation using block chains 317 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:54,960 than was possible in the old world. 318 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,120 We now can do scalable and precise capital allocation 319 00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,160 without intermediaries. We can do more democratic 320 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:03,040 capital allocation than was possible before. 321 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,200 And to me that's the true purpose of crypto is removing 322 00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,960 intermediaries and help helping people get funding for doing 323 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,920 good in their communities. So yeah, near term answer we're 324 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,280 going to help arm arm people who are building EVM based 325 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,040 communities. But long term, it's it's about 326 00:18:19,120 --> 00:18:21,360 helping the world fund its public goods and helping the 327 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:23,600 world allocate capital in a democratic way. 328 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,000 Cool. You talked about quadratic 329 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,640 funding earlier. Where kind of the the impact 330 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,280 your vote has depends on the square root of how much you're 331 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,560 giving. You also mentioned retroactive 332 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,400 public goods funding right now. Can you briefly explain what 333 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,560 that is? Yeah, sure. 334 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:48,160 So but just to zoom out a little bit, one way that we describe 335 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,160 get coin one point O is like get coin one point O is like a 336 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,200 screwdriver. It only did quadratic funding. 337 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,800 Get coin two point O is like multi tool. 338 00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,400 It's going to do quadratic funding. 339 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:58,400 It actually does quadratic funding. 340 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,240 It does retroactive public goods funding, it does direct grants, 341 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:04,520 it does all these different flavours of of funding. 342 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,520 So. Talk us through all of the 343 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,040 flavours that you support now. Sir. 344 00:19:10,040 --> 00:19:11,920 Yeah, yeah. Well you asked about retroactive 345 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,040 public goods funding, so I'll, I'll start with that. 346 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,840 Get coin has I, I, I I've been working with the Optimism 347 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,720 community in order to build a tool called Easy Retro PGF dot 348 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,440 XYZ, and that's basically the same voting interface that 349 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,920 Optimism uses for retroactive public goods funding in their 350 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,400 community. Retroactive public goods 351 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,080 funding, as as your listeners may know, is based off of the 352 00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,520 idea that it's easier to fund things that have had an impact 353 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,280 in the past than it is to speculate about which things 354 00:19:43,280 --> 00:19:45,480 will have impact in the future because you have all the data 355 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,720 available about what's actually done good in these communities. 356 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,680 So basically, using retroactive public goods funding, you set up 357 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,760 a system of badge holders who are community members who are 358 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,320 highly regarded in the community, have good judgement 359 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,600 and have about three to five hours per quarter in order to 360 00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:08,920 allocate capital to to what has done good in the past. 361 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,360 And so Optimism has been pioneering the retroactive 362 00:20:12,360 --> 00:20:15,320 public goods funding. Space within the Ethereum 363 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:18,720 ecosystem and we've partnered with them to make their flavor 364 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,520 of capital allocation available to any other Dow in the EVM 365 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,600 space that wants to do retroactive public goods 366 00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,800 funding. So we've got our first pilot of 367 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:33,200 Easy Retro PGF dot XYZ available coming up in the in the next 368 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,720 month that'll be in in April and we're working with I I think I 369 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:42,280 can say this on here, but file Coin Pocket Cello in order to 370 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,240 run Retro PGF rounds in their community. 371 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,960 So yeah, just just I just want your listeners to like I just 372 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:49,200 want to like drill in on this point get coin one point O is 373 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,800 just QF, get coin two point O is is many different flavors of of 374 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:56,800 capital allocation in QF and retro PGF are two, two of the 375 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:58,720 ones that we're most excited about right now. 376 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,640 Happy to go into the others or to take questions about Retro 377 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:03,400 PGF. Yeah. 378 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,920 One question about retro PDF before we kind of go into the 379 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,640 others. So you said that you have to 380 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:15,000 define a set of people who are allowed to kind of make 381 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,520 allocations or kind of vote on kind of what should receive 382 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,560 funding. Why do we have to do that for 383 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,800 for PDF and not for not for quadratic funding? 384 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,080 Yeah. So we're we're kind of like 385 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:34,880 almost mixing two things. The the prospect of retroactive 386 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,720 versus prospective funding is, is just like sort of like a 387 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,360 spectrum of are you funding things that were only good in 388 00:21:41,360 --> 00:21:43,520 the past or are you funding things that are good in the past 389 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:45,600 and in the future. So that's like that's like 1 390 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,960 spectrum and then another spectrum is the allow list who 391 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:52,040 gets to vote and then quadratic funding does this almost. 392 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,200 It's actually pretty radical to think anyone in the community 393 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,520 can vote with their dollars or or their ETH that they bring. 394 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:02,160 Whereas retroactive public goods funding is a little bit less 395 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,840 democratic and it's a more a little bit more technocratic. 396 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,160 So basically you assign a badge holder someone in your community 397 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,160 that's well regarded and well informed that gets to vote. 398 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,160 And I I kind of think of this as a spectrum of like on the on the 399 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,280 left hand side, if it's just the core team and the founders that 400 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,480 get to decide who allocates capital, well that's completely 401 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,960 technocratic and sort of like insular and and no one gets to 402 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,200 decide. And badge holders are just a way 403 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,120 for for communities to slowly dole out that responsibility to 404 00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:35,040 their most trusted community members. 405 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,960 And and what I think we're going to see with retroactive public 406 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,560 goods funding is communities that have had direct grants 407 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,200 programs and maybe there's a grants administrator who's 408 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,920 become a power broker in their community start to be able to 409 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:50,600 dole out and progressively decentralize that that 410 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,840 responsibility. But also that power to their 411 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,320 community in until you start to reach out and have what what 412 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:01,480 optimism has which is hundreds of badge holders who are making 413 00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,440 decisions. And then, you know, I think the 414 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,160 ultimate destination looks a little bit more like QF where 415 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,560 maybe you'll have thousands of badge holders that are making 416 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:09,880 decisions about funding what matters. 417 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,680 It's about progressively decentralizing that power. 418 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:16,040 So when we talk about the difference between QF in retro 419 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,960 PGFI think people get a little bit tripped up because we're 420 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,440 actually traversing two different spectrums of the 421 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,800 design space. The 1st is retroactive versus 422 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,720 proactive and the 2nd is how technocratic versus democratic 423 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:32,840 is the vote. And you know capital allocation 424 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:34,760 is a design space. There's going to be many dots 425 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,000 along this design space. Those just happen to be two that 426 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:39,520 the community is exploring right now. 427 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:44,040 Yeah, super interesting. And and what are the other 428 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,480 capital allocation schemes that you have integrated into get 429 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,920 coin two point O? So I want to be very clear about 430 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,840 what exists right now and then what exists in the future 431 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,160 because I I think a lot of like one of the radical things we did 432 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,600 with the get coin two point O white paper is like we didn't 433 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,920 write the get coin two point O white paper and then say hey 434 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:04,720 we're going to build it over the next five years. 435 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,280 This stuff is live already. So we've we've got direct grants 436 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,600 which is just plain simple vanilla grants you can go out 437 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,960 and a grant administrator can run an on chain grant program. 438 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,760 We've got quadratic funding which is what get coins 439 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,640 historically known for. We've got retroactive public 440 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,600 goods funding that's already live and then we've got 441 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,640 conviction voting pilot that we were working on with one hive. 442 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,040 So basically conviction voting is, is is sort of like an 443 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,640 interesting way of doing capital allocation which you stake 444 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,280 governance tokens and they can remove money from the treasury. 445 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,640 The more governance tokens have been staked and the longer 446 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,880 they've been staked. And then we've got a capital 447 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,600 allocation mechanism called Streaming Quadratic Funding, 448 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:51,440 which is a, which is a partnership between Geo Web and 449 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:56,080 Superfluid and Get Coin in which basically instead of funding 450 00:24:56,520 --> 00:25:00,480 public goods quadratically for two weeks per quarter, you could 451 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,480 have an always on stream of revenue that is being 452 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,880 continuously allocated to different grants in your 453 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,440 ecosystem. So those are the five that exist 454 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,920 right now, Direct Grants, Quadratic Funding Conviction, 455 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,120 Voting Retro PGF and Streaming QF. 456 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,640 We've got a road map of around a dozen other mechanisms that we 457 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:22,280 want to build into the Get Cooling Toolbox into the future. 458 00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,320 And you know like I said, this is all in service of helping 459 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,840 communities fund what matters. We see a future in which 460 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:32,440 communities are going to be funding their ecosystem in a 461 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,600 plurality of different mechanisms and we think these 462 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,120 mechanisms are all complementary with each other. 463 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,960 I I think that the the meta the most effective tactic for 464 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:45,120 someone watching an EVM based community in the next cycle is 465 00:25:45,120 --> 00:25:47,760 going to be not just having a regular grants program but also 466 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,480 doing QF and retro PGF and conviction voting all all 467 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,960 together and and and yeah so the the vision is basically to to 468 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,960 have an ecosystem of capital allocation that funds your 469 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:05,680 community in complementary ways to just your existing direct 470 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,360 grants program. Can you give examples of where 471 00:26:09,360 --> 00:26:13,760 you think each of these schemes will be particularly effective? 472 00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,000 Because if they're if they're all about the same, you wouldn't 473 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:21,160 need so many, right? Yeah, sure, I'm happy to. 474 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,680 The word scheme makes me feel a little bit dirty because a lot 475 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,480 of these things are deeply rooted in in game theory. 476 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:32,560 But but yeah, just to to answer your question, quadratic funding 477 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:35,040 is really good at democratic capital allocation. 478 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:38,560 It invites people in the outer edges of your community to fund 479 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,720 what matters to them. Retroactive public goods funding 480 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,840 is really good at progressively decentralizing the 481 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,160 responsibility from a centralized grant administrator 482 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,920 to to a group of trusted community members and then 483 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:54,800 eventually many more of your community members to fund what 484 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,640 matters to them. Conviction voting is really good 485 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:01,440 at creating bottoms up momentum in your community to help people 486 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,480 fund the the public goods that matter to them. 487 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,720 And you know, if if a normal governance proposal or process 488 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,120 takes, I don't know, hours to write the grant proposal and 489 00:27:12,120 --> 00:27:15,000 then it takes all of the token holders to vote on it. 490 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:19,680 And in Summit spends 100 hours of of token holder attention 491 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,560 conviction voting is really nice because you you you you're not 492 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:29,320 doing $1,000,000 grants with with hundreds of hundreds of 493 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,480 hours of attention. You're doing like a a $500 slush 494 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,960 fund for a party that someone in your community wants to host and 495 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:39,280 they only have to stake thousands of their of their 496 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:40,840 governance tokens in order to pull it out. 497 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,120 So it's like a very bottoms up way of doing capital allocation. 498 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:48,000 So I think these are all these things are all good at like it. 499 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,600 It's it's the analogy of of of a multi tool I think really works 500 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:55,400 like for the same reason that scissors and a Phillips head 501 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,960 screwdriver and pliers solve different problems around the 502 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,040 house. Each of these capital allocation 503 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,520 tools solve different ways of doing capital allocation in your 504 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,960 community that are all complementary to each other. 505 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,760 So I think of it as like a multi tool or like a toolbox of 506 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,440 different tools that complement each other. 507 00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:16,480 Cool you you were just talking about staking the token that's 508 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,240 relevant for that community. You guys also have your own 509 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,800 token that you pre briefly alluded to earlier. 510 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:30,640 What is that used for? Yep, so GTC is the is the Get 511 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,200 Coin token and GTC stands for Get Coin, or I like to say that 512 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,480 it's all it stands for govern the community. 513 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,680 It's a Governance Token and basically it's a fork of Uni, 514 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,640 which itself is a fork of compound. 515 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,280 Using GTC, any token holders can delegate their governance power 516 00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,880 to a member of the community that's more active than them. 517 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:57,160 There is the Get Coin token dropped in 2021 and there was 518 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:01,280 around 14,000 holders at that time who were delegating to 519 00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:05,000 about a hundred 150 key decision makers in the community. 520 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:10,280 And yeah, GTC is is basically a governance token that allows you 521 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:15,680 to govern the get coin smart contracts on chain and the get 522 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:17,720 coin smart contracts are basically the treasury. 523 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,800 And then there's also ALOE protocol, which is our capital 524 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,440 allocation protocol that you know, there's a, there's a fee 525 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:28,520 switch within the protocol that is governed by the GTC holders 526 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:31,400 and then there's the the treasuries that are governed by 527 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,520 the GTC holders. And there's active discover 528 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,160 discussions on gov.getcoin.co about how to evolve this into 529 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,560 the future. But yeah, the the short answer 530 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,640 to your question is just governing both Allo Protocol and 531 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,120 the Treasury. OK. 532 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:49,960 Then let's maybe dive into Allo protocol because kind of like 533 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:54,200 the get coin two point O vision is kind of like a three tiered 534 00:29:54,200 --> 00:30:00,440 stack with the LO protocol at the bottom or top however way 535 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,800 you look at it. So talk us through that. 536 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,240 We're I'll start is that we built kit coin. 537 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,320 One point O totally wrong and I just want to like raise my hand 538 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:13,720 in front of your your audience and say I built it centralized 539 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,960 and monolithic and I have seen the light and modular and 540 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,480 decentralized is the way to go. So so get Coin 1.0 was a 541 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:24,560 centralized monolith. It was hosted on a AWS server in 542 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,600 Oregon that I set up and get. Coin 2.0 is hosted on Etherium 543 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,360 and on IPFS. So Hooray, our public goods 544 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:32,960 funding mechanisms are decentralized. 545 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:34,960 Now we were eating our decentralized vegetables. 546 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,640 So basically this is a Allo protocol is a modular suite of 547 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,160 smart contracts that allows people to basically it's easily 548 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,400 forkable. So anyone can fork, get coin 549 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,920 grants and build their own capital allocation mechanism 550 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,560 into it. But if you don't care about 551 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,160 coding, you can just basically use this tool called Get coin 552 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:57,240 Grant Stack which is the web application that allows anyone 553 00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,680 to run a Get coin grants in in their community. 554 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:06,120 So basically what we're allowing everyone to do is run AQF rounds 555 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:09,080 permissionlessly with without any help from us. 556 00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,360 So get coin one point O was all about fishing for you Get coin 557 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:13,960 two point O is teaching you to fish. 558 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:19,280 We've now got a community of 50 to 100 round operators that are 559 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,400 trained to run Get coin grants rounds in in your community and 560 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,920 that's what we call the program layer. 561 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,560 It's the social layer. People who run understand how to 562 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:33,160 run QF rounds in in various EVM based communities and they are 563 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:35,920 building, they are building these programs on top of get 564 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,080 coin grant stack which is the application that anyone can use 565 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:43,480 to run AQF round and a retro PGF round And then that's all built 566 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,160 on Allo protocol which is it was just sort of the the development 567 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:50,760 layer under underneath of it. So yeah I I think this 568 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,400 architecture is quite elegant because it allows us to go deep 569 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,200 on each of the capital allocation tools and build the 570 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,840 best tool for for that design space. 571 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,320 But it allows us to go broad and build many different types of 572 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:04,920 capital allocation tools into the community. 573 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,640 So that's a little bit about the architecture of Gitcoin 2 point 574 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,800 O. Can I add modules to that? 575 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,920 So basically, if I feel like a particular distribution 576 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,920 mechanism is definitely missing, can I build that and have it 577 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:24,160 integrated into that stack? Yep so if you don't have coding 578 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,800 skills you can go to getcoin.co slash grant stack, click on the 579 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,880 GitHub, open up a new issue and make a suggestion for a capital 580 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,720 allocation strategy. If you are a software developer 581 00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,360 what you can do is you can fork aloe and grant stack and you can 582 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,840 augment the capital allocation strategies and then PR it back 583 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:45,600 into grant stack. So what I think is really one of 584 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,000 the most powerful things about open source is the ability to 585 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,360 accept contributions from from all over the place and and my 586 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,800 goal for get coin two point O is I want to do for capital 587 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,680 allocation what Open Zeppelin has done for your C20 tokens and 588 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:01,040 when. What I mean by that is this. 589 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,560 When I was a software developer who was just entering the space 590 00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,200 and wanted to mess around with something at a hackathon for a 591 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,680 weekend, I would just pull ERC 20 solidity contracts out of 592 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,080 Open Zeppelin's repository. And I knew they were well 593 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,360 documented and they were audited and I could just take that money 594 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,880 Lego ERC 20 token and pull it into my app and then that way I 595 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,640 could build what my app actually actually needed to do instead of 596 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:27,200 reinventing the wheel of ERC 20 for every app that I'm that I'm 597 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,000 building. We want to do that for capital 598 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,320 allocation. I imagine a future in which 599 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,200 anyone in a hackathon at a Neath global hackathon in the future 600 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:40,160 can pull the power of get coin grants into their out into their 601 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,320 application for that weekend and they can instantly have a 602 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,640 quadratic funding strategy or retroactive public goods funding 603 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:50,960 strategy that they know is documented and audited and and 604 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,960 and I think that what this is we want to build the money Legos 605 00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,800 for capital allocation in on the on the EVM base stack and and 606 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,920 what that's going to do is is propel the community forward in 607 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,800 distributing the capital that that exists in all of these 608 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,320 different tokenized treasuries across across the space. 609 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,719 And so yeah, setting the shelling point for for for 610 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,520 capital allocation contracts and and making those those contracts 611 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,000 available to any hacker in the space who wants to build QF or 612 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:24,360 retro PGF or conviction voting or whatever it is into their 613 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,320 application in the future. So that's the final North Star. 614 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,360 We're not quite there yet, still working on making the docs good, 615 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,440 still making the contracts really understandable. 616 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,199 But but yeah, we believe in a future in which anyone can take 617 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:38,920 the power of get going grants and put it into their 618 00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:42,679 application and that's enabled by this new modular architecture 619 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,639 that we presented in get going two point O. 620 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:50,159 You said that the fee switch for the Allo protocol is triggered 621 00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,480 by the Bitcoin token. Tell us about the fees that you 622 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:58,960 may introduce. Yeah, I I'd say that right now 623 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,160 we're really just focused on providing as as much value as 624 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:05,480 possible. Allo protocol is being used in 625 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,000 dozens of places right now. We think that there could be 626 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:12,200 hundreds, thousands of dials that are using Allo protocol and 627 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,680 could benefit from these capital allocation tools. 628 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,640 Right now and right now we are accepting payment and feedback 629 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,720 because we just want to make sure that these tools are 630 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:23,760 adopted in helping as many people as possible. 631 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,640 There are no active plans to turn on the fee switch. 632 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,040 I think it's really up to governance whether that's going 633 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,400 to happen or not. And I I think keep an eye on 634 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,680 gov.getcoin.co, but you know my constraints for actually 635 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:41,160 activating the fee switch would be that it has to be done in a 636 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,240 way that is positive some with the communities that it serves. 637 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,320 And I think that we're still exactly figuring out the path to 638 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,640 financial sustainability for get coin and how to how to balance 639 00:35:51,640 --> 00:35:55,240 the trade-offs with with what that would mean for turning that 640 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:56,480 on. So I guess that's a long way of 641 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,640 saying it's up to governance. I don't know. 642 00:35:58,720 --> 00:36:01,120 Keep an eye on govgovgov.getcoin.co. 643 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,520 What's the sentiment about get coin token holders because I 644 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,400 mean in principle it's like if you look at the market cap, it's 645 00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,120 kind of like probably on the order of 100 million or 646 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:14,400 something. So and to kind of have that kind 647 00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,520 of float, people probably believe that it'll it'll be able 648 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,600 to capture some of the value that it provides to other 649 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:27,000 communities, right? I mean I, I, I I think that the 650 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,320 the sentiment that I see expressed on gov.getcoin.co 651 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,080 which is where at least in theory, people are supposed to 652 00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:37,920 be expressing their sentiment about get Coin is you guys need 653 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:42,200 to get product adoption. So, so basically get coin, Get 654 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:46,200 coin Dow launched in 2021 and we're now in 2024. 655 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:50,960 It took two years to rewrite the centralized monolithic stack to 656 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,760 be decentralized in modular and I and I think that you know in a 657 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,920 space where attention is fickle and we're going to chase meme 658 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,760 coins on the order of hours not days. 659 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,920 I think a lot of people have forgotten about get coin and you 660 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,360 know that's fine we we didn't execute and and you know there 661 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,200 was a pretty hard reset between one point O and two point O. 662 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,160 So you know, I I think the, the focus right now is is on 663 00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,400 building tools that are actually useful to people and getting 664 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,480 those adoption. And you know what I I think like 665 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,160 being a leader again in in capital allocation. 666 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,960 I think like in a lot of ways Gitcoin one point O pioneered 667 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,400 quadratic funding at with the help of you know, obviously we 668 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,400 didn't write the paper, Glenn Vitalik and Zoe wrote the paper, 669 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:39,560 but we're pioneering the actual practice of using it and you 670 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,520 know the game has changed there. It's not just quadratic funding 671 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:45,040 anymore, it's retroactive public goods funding. 672 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:48,600 There's a bunch of different capital allocation tools and and 673 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,320 and and the reset from centralized and monolithic to 674 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,760 decentralized and modular has necessitated a different 675 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:58,120 approach in a in a new era of leadership. 676 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:01,640 So you know, I think the honest answer to your question is that 677 00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,440 Gecko needs to lead again and it needs to and it needs to pioneer 678 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,520 the space during a new era in which the game has changed. 679 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,360 And and the sentiment that I hear that I really want to 680 00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,040 respond to is making Gecko a a market leader again and and 681 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,920 that's that's what you'll see me pushing for at gov.getco.co. 682 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:26,720 That's absolutely fair. So you recently deployed to a 683 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:32,000 whole bunch of chains. How did you determine where to 684 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,600 deploy to? I mean, obviously it's clear 685 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,400 that if your main net was not the place to fear anymore in in, 686 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,520 in light of the fees, but yeah, how did you decide where to 687 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,080 replace your bets? Yeah, well anyone can take Allo 688 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,080 protocol and deploy it wherever they want. 689 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,640 So that's the nice thing about being forkable and permission 690 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,280 list is that you don't have to rely on Kevin Awaki anymore. 691 00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,200 You know get coins going to deploy to any L2 that's 692 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,240 legitimate and wants to fund what matters to its its 693 00:39:04,240 --> 00:39:06,280 community. So right now we're seeing the 694 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:12,000 most traction on optimism and Arbitrum Allo has also deployed 695 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,920 to to Sello into ZK sync into base and wherever the 696 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,480 communities that wherever there's money that is going to 697 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,720 be funding public goods and funding what matters to these 698 00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:25,080 communities. I I think that we'll make sure 699 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:27,880 that there is an Allo deployment to those chains. 700 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:31,000 So I think we're all we're all waiting to see where where L 701 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,600 twos are going to shake out. But it's it's pretty cheap to 702 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,680 deploy the Allo contracts to a new chain in terms of time and 703 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,480 gas costs. So we're going to go to as many 704 00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:42,800 L twos as there are communities that have treasuries that want 705 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:46,200 to deploy them. Yeah, makes total sense. 706 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:52,560 You heavily rely on kind of like the future being Dow heavy for 707 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,880 Bitcoin, right? Because kind of like allocating 708 00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:57,800 treasuries kind of like in a decentralized manner. 709 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:03,320 This is very much a Dow mandate. How do you see the recent 710 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,080 evolution of Daos? Are you happy with where we are 711 00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,320 right now with Daos or do you think we we we we need to push 712 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,160 for getting to another place? I think Dowser fascinating 713 00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,720 design space. I I think Dowser are basically 714 00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:21,760 crypto and multiplayer mode. What do we do when communities 715 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:23,920 have to govern something together have to push forward a 716 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,640 movement together. And I I was like when said the 717 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,720 word organization in in decentralized autonomous 718 00:40:30,720 --> 00:40:32,840 organization. I think these are networks in a 719 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,880 way and that's just a totally different way of thinking and 720 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,560 it's going to take time for them to evolve. 721 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,440 The corporate form evolved for 304 hundred years something like 722 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,040 that from the East India Corporation to what we now know 723 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,680 is the Delaware C Corp or you know I'm not sure where the 724 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,400 equivalent is in Europe. But I I think it's going to 725 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:55,160 take, it's going to take decades of evolution for us to figure 726 00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,920 out the final form of dows and I think that that we can't rush 727 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,080 it. I really like, I really like 728 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:03,840 Molok dowels. I really like compound dowels. 729 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,720 I I I think that there's all the gnosis safe is just an 730 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:11,840 incredibly simple but powerful tool for for helping communities 731 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,280 work together. I'm excited about new primitives 732 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,520 like hats protocol and you know I I I think we can't force the 733 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:19,880 evolution. I think we have to go through 734 00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,680 the painful parts but also the beautiful parts of of Dallas 735 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,640 happening and you know get what get coins trained to solve is 736 00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:30,320 like a very small portion of the Dow stack which is capital 737 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:32,920 allocation. And and you're right it it does 738 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,400 sort of depend on on people having tokens that they want to 739 00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,520 deploy to from their tokenized treasuries to to the outer 740 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,800 orbits of their communities. But you know get coins kind of a 741 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:48,280 bet on the EVM eating the world and tokenization eating the 742 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:50,560 world. And on top of that I know that 743 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:52,760 people are going to want to fund what matters in their 744 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,680 communities and and we just want to build the best stack for for 745 00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:58,000 doing that. But maybe I could tease a little 746 00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,680 actually a little bit. I'm actually writing a book 747 00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,040 right now called How to Dow, which will be published with 748 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,120 Penguin with Penguin Random House as a publisher in 749 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,880 September, October of this year. So really excited to explain the 750 00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,440 design space of Dowels to hopefully a more mainstream 751 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,640 audience coming in the fall, and I think it's a really 752 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:18,440 fascinating and exciting design space. 753 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:23,160 I had no idea about the book, but I'm going to push on this 754 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,800 now. So what do you think is the 755 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:29,720 single thing that should be changed for Dow that would have 756 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:35,440 the most impact right now? It's it's a hard question to 757 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:40,000 answer because asking about Dallas is is like asking about 758 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:42,840 it's it's an extremely wide aperture. 759 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,520 Asking about Dallas is like asking about organizations. 760 00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,440 Are we talking about a family? Are we talking about a 761 00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,320 nonprofit? Are we talking about a for 762 00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,560 profit corporation? Are you talking about an NGO 763 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,760 like it? It's just like too wide of an 764 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,640 aperture to even give a useful answer. 765 00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,440 So I'm sorry not to answer your question, but I I think there's 766 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,560 a bunch of little things that need to be made better. 767 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:06,760 OK, I'd specify. So in my view, the one thing 768 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:12,040 that would do a lot if it were to be solved is kind of like the 769 00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,680 attention bandwidth problem, right? 770 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,640 Kind of right. Now when you actually look at 771 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:23,480 the snapshots of Daos, often it is votes on things that 772 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,440 shouldn't be voted on. There's like people basically 773 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:32,360 quorums are not met left and right because people are kind of 774 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:35,480 disengaged. Do you have an idea how to to to 775 00:43:35,480 --> 00:43:41,120 deal with them the bandwidth problem for different decisions 776 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:42,880 kind of on different scales for those? 777 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,320 Yeah, I mean my response to that would be, hey, what if there was 778 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:52,920 a capital allocation tool that respected the voters attention 779 00:43:53,720 --> 00:43:56,800 instead of instead of assuming that they're spending 10s of 780 00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,960 hours every day on on the governance forums. 781 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,720 So I I think that like quadratic funding in a way sort of is that 782 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:09,640 with quadratic funding you're you're taking a look at all of 783 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,600 the grants in a community that are doing stuff within that 784 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,240 community and loading up your cart once per quarter, it takes 785 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:18,600 10 or 15 minutes. It feels more like an e-commerce 786 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,880 experience you check out and then you're done once 1/4. 787 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,920 And so there's not a bunch of like governance proposals to 788 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,040 really spend a lot of time debating back and forth on. 789 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:31,040 And anyhow, by the way, I'm sorry there was so much friction 790 00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,520 in your GG 19 experience. I hope that GG20 is is more is 791 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:37,480 better for you. But you know, my response to 792 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,520 that is we need a capital allocation Swiss army knife and 793 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:43,600 we need to have more tools that respect the the user's 794 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,080 attention, the voters attention when when they're allocating 795 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:49,040 capital in these dials. Yeah. 796 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:51,760 And Kevin I kind of I, I, I I want to make clear that kind of 797 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:56,040 I've I've given through git coin through most of the rounds. 798 00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:59,720 I'm a huge fan. I think it's super it's it's I I 799 00:44:59,720 --> 00:45:03,200 just wanted to kind of I was frustrated because I think it's 800 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,720 a really important tool and I want to see it just work. 801 00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,840 Yeah. Well I I I am back at get Coin. 802 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,600 I was just affiliated for about a year and a half and I think 803 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:15,800 that get coin was in the messy middle between one point O and 804 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,160 two point O. But if you have complaints about 805 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:23,880 GG20, please tweet at me. I'm at Awaki on Twitter and I I 806 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:28,400 read all the feedback and we take it seriously sometimes, 807 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:31,760 even if you don't see it and and and know that we were working 808 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,680 hard to make the user experience better, we have made missteps. 809 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:40,080 It is a hard design space, but each Get coin is deeply 810 00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:43,160 protopian with and by that I mean it gets better every 811 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,600 quarter. Sometimes it's two steps forward 812 00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,720 and one step or one step, 2 steps back and one step forward, 813 00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,560 you know, especially between get coin one point O and two point 814 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,840 O. But we are still here, we are 815 00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,040 still grinding, and we're going to make each Get Coin grants 816 00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,720 round better than the last one. Fantastic. 817 00:45:58,720 --> 00:46:03,040 So tell our audience how to get involved with Get coin 818 00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,480 governance if they want to do so, How to contribute, how to I 819 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:10,240 I know there's an approval process for projects to kind of 820 00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:12,760 be whitelisted and so on. Do you rely heavily on 821 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,520 volunteers for that? So if people, kind of if this 822 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,880 resonates with people, where do they head? 823 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:22,600 Yep, so you can go to getcoin.co, which is where you 824 00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,360 can find all the other good stuff. 825 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,760 If you check out impact.getcoin.co, that is the 826 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,760 ticker for the amount of impact that Get Coin has had from the 827 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,200 beginning of of Get Coin's entrance in the space I've 828 00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:37,480 always been very focused on. Let's actually show the numbers 829 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,800 the tangible impact that Get Coin is is having and I wanted 830 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:43,200 to stand out from all the projects that were promising the 831 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,400 world but not actually delivering much. 832 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,360 And impact.getcoin.co is where you can go to see our latest 833 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,360 impact numbers. As of as of 2024 March 2024, 834 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:58,480 we've done $60 million worth of funding to public goods in the 835 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,440 Ethereum ecosystem. You can go to getcoin.co slash 836 00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:04,040 discord if you want to join our Discord and get involved. 837 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:11,720 gov.getcoin.co is the governance forum for for get coin and you 838 00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:16,280 can also find us on Twitter at twitter.com/get coin. 839 00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,000 Yeah, those are the links that I would that I would expect that 840 00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:23,960 people could go and check out. And April 2024 is when Get Coin 841 00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:27,760 Grants 20 is happening. So set a reminder, remember to 842 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,040 check out in your Get Coin cart and send me a tweet after you do 843 00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,160 it and let me know. If it sucks then tell me it 844 00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:35,480 sucked. If you thought it was great, 845 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:39,320 then tell me it was great. I'm twitter.com/awaki Frederick, 846 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:41,880 a thank you so much for having me on the Epicenter podcast. 847 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:42,960 I really enjoyed the conversation. 848 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:45,440 Thank. Thank you for coming on. 849 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:48,640 Kevin I I'm looking forward to round 20. 850 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:52,600 Thank you for joining us on this week's episode. 851 00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:54,520 We release new episodes every week. 852 00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,960 You can find and subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, 853 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:01,000 YouTube, SoundCloud, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 854 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,240 And if you have a Google Home or Alexa device, you can tell it to 855 00:48:04,240 --> 00:48:07,160 listen to the latest episode of the Epicenter podcast, go to 856 00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,320 epicenter.tv/subscribe for a full list of places where you 857 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,560 can watch and listen. And while you're there, be sure 858 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,040 to sign up for the newsletter so you get new episodes in your 859 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,120 inbox as they're released. If you want to interact with us 860 00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:20,840 guests or other podcast listeners, you can follow us on 861 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:23,000 Twitter and please leave us a review on iTunes. 862 00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:25,520 It helps people find the show and we're always happy to read 863 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:27,920 them. So thanks so much and we look 864 00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:29,080 forward to being back next week.