1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,760 Welcome to Epicentre of the show, which talks about the 2 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:04,360 technologies, projects and people driving decentralization 3 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,360 and the blockchain revolution. Today we're here with. 4 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,200 That's all success. Michelman Atan have been leading 5 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,120 the desktop team this year and I'm very, very excited to 6 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:15,480 welcome you at Desk tonight. We wanted to organise an event 7 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:18,400 that could give a touch and fear experience of what Ethereum 8 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,000 could feel like in the daily life. 9 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,120 And again, there is no better place than Alcantida to do that 10 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,920 because people use crypto, stable coins and Ethereum on a 11 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:27,680 daily basis. In Alcantina you can see people 12 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:31,440 using crypto. We estimate that about 5 million 13 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,360 people using on a daily basis and 20% in the country own 14 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,880 crypto. So you can pay with crypto and 15 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:40,480 everywhere in the venue with stable coins or ETH. 16 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,080 It is the biggest event EF ever organised in terms of 17 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:47,440 attendance. We've almost now reached 20,000 18 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,000 attendees. Hey, Nathan, what's going on? 19 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:53,360 Good. How are you? 20 00:00:55,640 --> 00:01:00,320 Yeah, we're here at Defconnect. It's been a pretty insane week. 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:04,120 Lots of announcements, lots of sort of like new directional 22 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:06,600 focuses, I think, and narratives. 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:08,760 What's your main? What's your main take away from 24 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:10,000 this week? What are the things that kind of 25 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,600 struck you as most interesting and most surprising? 26 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,320 All right, so I, I guess I'm biased towards the take of an 27 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:19,440 event organizer deep down into the whiz of organizing an event. 28 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,720 So I've been focusing on well, organizing this event and make 29 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,840 it as good as possible. So I'm less into like I don't 30 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:28,920 know so much about the side events, even though I know there 31 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:31,560 are like a few hundreds happening inside like inside 32 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,800 Buenos Aires. I've seen a quite a lot of 33 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:37,160 announcements. So I think there's a a lot of 34 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:40,000 great things happening currently these days, right? 35 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:42,160 Like everyday there is a big announcement that I've seen 36 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:46,840 Polygon, I think trust lesson on something and the privacy wallet 37 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,280 by EF got released. I mean, there is a lot of new 38 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,600 releases, a lot of new products coming out. 39 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:54,640 So this is what I feel, but against again, like I'm deep 40 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:56,760 down into the Wizard of organizing dev connect, which I 41 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,680 think is a success for now. You tell me. 42 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,800 But but yeah, we are now more than halfway through and yeah, a 43 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:06,360 few days left, but yeah. This episode is brought to you 44 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,520 by Nosis, building the open Internet one block at a time. 45 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,560 Nosis was founded in 2015 and it's grown from 1 of Ethereum's 46 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,960 earliest projects into a powerful ecosystem for open user 47 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,800 owned finance. Nosis is also the team behind 48 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,480 products that had become core to my business and that are so many 49 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:26,640 others like Safe and Cow Swap. At the center is Nosis Chain. 50 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,480 It's a low fee layer one with 0 downtime in seven years and 51 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,520 secured by over 300,000 validators. 52 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,600 It's the foundation for real world financial applications 53 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:40,760 like Nosis Pay and Circles. All of this is governed by Nosis 54 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Dow, a community run organization where anyone with a 55 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:48,200 GNO token can vote on updates, fund new projects, and even run 56 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,600 a validator from home. So if you're building a Web 3 or 57 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:53,960 you're just curious about what financial freedom can look like, 58 00:02:54,160 --> 00:03:00,360 start exploring at nosis dot IO. Can you give us an idea of the 59 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,720 scale of the event? Because it's an absolutely 60 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,040 massive venue. How many people are here, how 61 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:10,640 many talks, what kind of percentage of Argentinians and 62 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:11,320 so on. OK. 63 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:16,480 So it is the biggest event you have ever organized in terms of 64 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,400 scale of what we've been doing, in terms of attendance, in terms 65 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:24,280 of complexity and in terms of I think visibility in the country 66 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,040 and in the area in terms of scale of the events. 67 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,240 So we're doing within the male building which is very central 68 00:03:30,240 --> 00:03:33,400 to Buenos Aires. We are doing 40 events in Paris. 69 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,280 So we're coordinating between 40 different or even organizers 70 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,080 organizing a few events ourselves. 71 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:42,080 But most of the events are independently organized. 72 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:46,880 We also have a Co work inside the main venue indoor outdoor 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,360 and we organize the massive fair. 74 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,880 The return was fair where we have about 100 applications 75 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,360 getting showcase. So it's been a lot of 76 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:59,000 coordination with all the apps in creation And so we have three 77 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,320 main pavilion and again a lot of things happening. 78 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,080 So in terms of operations has been very big. 79 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:09,040 In terms of attendance, we've almost now reached 20,000 80 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:14,120 attendees, so ticket claims 2020 thousand. 81 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,200 That came through the doors here at Defconnect, tickets claimed. 82 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,200 Yeah. And I think we are now more than 83 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:26,240 6070% on day 4 of attendance. So yeah, that claimed the ticket 84 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:29,800 that showed up at the venue. Something that that is cool is 85 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,080 that every event that is happening inside the venue 86 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,240 required defconnect ticket. So it's also like a, you have a 87 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:38,520 disconnect ticket as a, as a pass to enjoy the fair, to go to 88 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:41,400 the fair, you enjoy the food, you enjoy the free spaces, you 89 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,960 go to the event. Some require additional sign up, 90 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,520 but most of them are free. So it's so the disconnect ticket 91 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,000 gives you things and we've been coordinating all the AV, the 92 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,200 production and many things for these events. 93 00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:00,080 So in addition of these events plus plus all the world's fair 94 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,880 with applications, we also have like a football pitch, meeting 95 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,400 room, the same stage and many things happening. 96 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:09,880 So yeah, the the biggest today. Walk, walk me through the 97 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,120 decision to kind of make this a, a world fair because kind of 98 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:15,480 like that's a new format, right? Kind of like we, I mean, we've 99 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:18,080 had boost before and we had talks before and panels and so 100 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,080 on. But the world fair element is. 101 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,520 Is that decidedly new? Right. 102 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,080 So there are a few things I think for in terms of timing 103 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,720 journey of the ecosystem, we felt that showcasing more apps, 104 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:33,200 more applications of Ethereum where like this is a year where 105 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,480 we had to showcase that like last. 106 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,880 I think that was the main, if not the only criticism we got 107 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,440 out of the event that we were missing applications, concrete 108 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,680 stuff that people could use in the in their daily lives. 109 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:50,240 And so it of course helped us to select, maybe we can talk about 110 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,920 this, but also this is what sparked the idea of the welfare, 111 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,720 inspired by the 1st welfare of Chicago that demonstrated the 112 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,280 the use and the power of electricity. 113 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,120 We wanted to organize an event that could give a touch and fear 114 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,880 experience of what Ethereum could feel like in the daily 115 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:10,280 life. And again, there is no better 116 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:13,280 place than Alcantina to do that because people use crypto, 117 00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:15,040 stablecoins and Etherium on a daily basis. 118 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:19,600 So we felt again, he was a great timing for the ecosystem because 119 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,040 we now have hundreds of apps live on Ethereum, but also in 120 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:30,080 terms of yeah, in terms of applications ready and and also 121 00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:33,560 in terms of doing it into Argentina, which is a a great 122 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,880 place to do it. What was some of the kind of 123 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,400 reasons why Defconnect landed here in Argentina? 124 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,200 So we've been scouting Argentina for many years. 125 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:49,840 As a matter of fact, we almost organized in Argentina in 2022 126 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:52,680 when we scouted South America. We went to Bogota instead 127 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:54,760 because at the time we wanted to organize DEFCON. 128 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,400 I was not part of the team at the time, but we wanted to 129 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,920 organize DEFCON, which is more like a classic programming 130 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,160 that's EF owns and the classic talks and workshop format. 131 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:09,200 And you know, we did not found find the venue actually there 132 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,440 was a really matter of venue that could fit this this style 133 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:14,200 of event. So we went with the the great 134 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:21,480 venue at at Bogota and we but we visited liberal some people at 135 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,720 the EF at the time in 2020, I think or 21 visited this place 136 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,160 and wonder this is going to be one place for an event one day 137 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,920 and two days. I mean, this year is a is a 138 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:32,880 year. And yeah, I think it's a good 139 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:35,240 format for something that is more decentralized, more open 140 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,760 air, more of like festival each 5. 141 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:41,600 And so I think this is again, this is what letters to do to 142 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:47,200 organize this kind of events. And compared to say, organizing, 143 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,760 you know, deaf connect in, in Amsterdam or like in a European 144 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:53,800 country, we organized an event here. 145 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,520 And like there's a particular set of challenges to organizing 146 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,440 events in in a place like Argentina, where you're coming 147 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,240 from Europe, where, you know, there's language, there's 148 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,400 culture. I found one of the things that 149 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,920 was particularly complex was payments, which sort of led 150 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,880 stuff, well, to, you know, to doing a crypto event here. 151 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:11,360 What? What did you how did you 152 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,880 overcome those sound challenges? So I can. 153 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,920 So Amsterdam, for the record, was also organized right after 154 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,440 COVID. So it was even possible to 155 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,600 organize it in Amsterdam because, well, all the venues 156 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,960 were super cheap and available. Like no one crazy enough was 157 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,720 going enough to organize an event right after COVID and it 158 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:30,560 was the one of the first big event opening. 159 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:34,640 And so the initial ID came out of of Devcon and came out of 160 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,960 COVID because we could not simply organize like A-57 people 161 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:42,520 event. And so we decided to the team at 162 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,920 the time decided to set up a, a Co work and signal toward the 163 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,440 place and invite other even organizers and teams to organize 164 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,120 their own events. Yeah, this is how we started. 165 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,280 That was a genesis of of Dev connect. 166 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,200 And then there was Istanbul. Then there was Istanbul where we 167 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:57,720 signal the same towards the city. 168 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,960 We did a bit more ourselves, like we had a a bigger Co work. 169 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,040 We had more events inside the same building. 170 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:06,480 We, we already had the idea of trying to do a bit more 171 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,200 ourselves, like having one place where we centralized a bit more 172 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,800 of the people and people could go from one event to another. 173 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,640 So that was the first trial. And we took that to the next 174 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:20,160 step with a, an even bigger venue and running 40 events in 175 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,440 parallel and having even more events like outside, like 176 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:27,920 external parties organizing their own events inside the main 177 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:29,360 building. But yeah, this is the main 178 00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,560 spirits, the main ID we added on top of 40 events, the World's 179 00:09:32,560 --> 00:09:35,360 Fair, which is also very new. We experimented a little bit 180 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,600 with that at Devcon Bangkok because we had the supporter 181 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,720 spaces. You could walk in the hallways 182 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:44,280 and see the some projects. But now it's really about the 183 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:45,720 apps. The focus was reached to 184 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,000 showcase applications. You could go at the booth, try 185 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,120 and try the apps. And that was the idea of the, of 186 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:54,280 the, the event. But yes, so the shift changed a 187 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:55,560 bit. We're also doing much more 188 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:57,360 ourselves in Istanbul and Amsterdam. 189 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,320 It was more about side events and inviting people to go to 190 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,080 like visit the city. So we, we helped like with with 191 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,560 bikes in the city, we help with guides and creating a map, 192 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,400 etcetera. This year it was really the 193 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:15,880 focus was on the core events, as we call them internally, the 194 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,280 core events inside the main building. 195 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,840 And we we've put like a bigger focus on on the venue and 196 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,200 everything that's happening here because we're doing so much 197 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:25,640 ourselves. So it's also a question of 198 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:26,960 focus. That's the main difference. 199 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,880 Tell us about the attendees. What percentage of attendees are 200 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,920 local and how many have flown in for this? 201 00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:37,200 We have about now 20,000 attendees and about 50% of them 202 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,280 are locals. So we put a lot of effort into 203 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:44,000 inviting local attendees and we're about 20, a few between 50 204 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,720 and 20 in the team. And we have 5 local people. 205 00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,880 And so we've been working very hard in involving local 206 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,720 communities on all fronts. And we have someone full time 207 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,120 here. Cabella Fassano has been very, 208 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,600 very active in onboarding all again, the universities, the 209 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,680 companies, the, the government officials, all the local 210 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:05,520 committees are very, very active and hunting. 211 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,800 Now we can also talk about this like if you're Marcatina Silla 212 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,640 time is KIPPU, all these organizations that have been 213 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:14,440 also that are organizing their own events here, like there is a 214 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:17,080 today an Ethereum Marcantina Caton, like there are a lot of 215 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:22,320 things happening. And and so yes, so about 50% of 216 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,520 look of attendees are local. We've also put a lot of 217 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,880 discounts for locals, for students as always, but the 218 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,920 locals could come very easily. It was very accessible. 219 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,400 It was $20.00 for the tickets and we did a lot of partnership 220 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:40,760 with universities, so you can often see waves of students 221 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:44,080 coming inside a venue like out of like school bus. 222 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:48,440 That's very cool to see. We had tracks of universities 223 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,600 with 10 of the biggest universities of Argentina every 224 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,920 day, twice a day. So content for newcomers 225 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,800 happening always. Also something we've done is 226 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,440 that we've been able to set up a streamline process with the 227 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,960 Immigration Office of Argentina directly in line with the 228 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:09,360 government, where we issued more than 1000 visa to people all 229 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,960 around the world that are normally blocked from attending 230 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,960 these events. So you can see inside the venue, 231 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,280 a lot of people from from India, from Nigeria, a lot of people 232 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:19,960 from Africa actually. And as a result, we also have 233 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,240 more than 130 countries represented. 234 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,960 Wow. So it's, it's, I mean, we're 235 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,000 only missing like what 60 countries? 236 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,600 Like, all right, next step, we need to get them. 237 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,560 But I mean, this is, this is amazing. 238 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:33,960 And then it is also far from a lot of places. 239 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:38,640 I mean, some people flew for 45 hours doing 354 or five stops. 240 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,280 Like it was a concern that we had at some point. 241 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:45,600 And also let us double down on involving local communities in 242 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:50,600 Argentina, also LATAM, but, but we managed to get people from 243 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,640 all around the world and it's very exciting to see. 244 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,560 So, yeah, making the event as accessible as possible was a 245 00:12:55,560 --> 00:12:58,520 big, big focus and also involving local communities at 246 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,920 the same time. I think it is always a focus of 247 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:04,800 Defcon and Defconnect. That was the case also in 248 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,080 Southeast Asia. This is what This is why we're 249 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,360 going to think Defcon and Defconnect in these places. 250 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:15,040 We're going to places where others want others. 251 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,440 Organize conferences in Europe and CC is very big in France 252 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:21,560 have been involved for many years with this events. 253 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:27,600 Now you have like events in in the US with the East calf based 254 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:29,240 global. Global is going on in a lot of 255 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,080 places in global is also going to many places where it's been 256 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,480 harder, like they're going to places like Africa or India and 257 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:42,000 many, many different countries. But yeah, so this is about the 258 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:44,120 diversity. We had a lot of it and we are. 259 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,600 We're proud of it. Yeah, the visa thing is huge. 260 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,080 I mean, that's, that's a big undertaking, I think to have 261 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:52,520 like the government involved and making sure that like people can 262 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,000 come as yeah, I mean, even FIFA can't do this, right? 263 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,400 Like apparently, apparently they can't get fast track for, for 264 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:01,560 people to go to the FIFA World Cup. 265 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,440 You know, people in crypto, there's there's this narrative 266 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:08,280 about like South America being a very fertile place for crypto 267 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,200 innovation because of, come on, people's monetary sovereignty, 268 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:15,240 because of the state of the payment rails and the financial 269 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:18,960 system. And this has been something 270 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,600 that, you know, we've been hearing for years in the in the 271 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:24,280 crypto community, like people Camille Russo have talked about 272 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:29,800 it extensively written about it. And what's your sense of how 273 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,200 impactful it was to have Def Connect here? 274 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,720 And what are some of the really interesting kind of use cases 275 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,880 that you know, you've seen or or you've emerged here at Def 276 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,960 Connect that validate this thesis? 277 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,080 So there's a hard thing about what we do is that we often 278 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,400 don't see the repo effects of our events for many, many years. 279 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:53,760 I can tell that's our events in Bogota had side effects and 280 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:58,200 impacts like for many years. And now we're also harvesting 281 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,720 the seeds that we've planted in, in Bogota three years ago, 282 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:04,800 because a lot of the communities that are, are involved now in 283 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:07,560 all over that time were born around Bogota. 284 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,200 So it's, it's hard to put numbers on the impact that such 285 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,880 an event has. But years later we can, we can 286 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,800 tell because for example, in Bangkok last year, we had many 287 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,640 communities coming from South America all the way to Bangkok 288 00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:24,520 because they're so DEFCON. They went to DEFCON, they saw 289 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,160 the impact. And so they, they wanted to, to, 290 00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:31,000 to be part of it. So the impact is always hard to, 291 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,560 to evaluate. We have a financial direct 292 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,720 financial impact by with tourism, obviously with all the 293 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:43,880 money we put, but all the side events put that the companies 294 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,160 that will come here that will invest into into the country 295 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:52,400 that will hire local, local talents that will probably set 296 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:56,800 base like a con base is getting approval to like got approvals 297 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:03,120 to like financial regulated. They have like PSAVPSAV like a 298 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:08,680 local vast regulated entity to be able to to deal with finances 299 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:12,760 here. So people are going to companies 300 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:14,120 are going are getting established. 301 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:20,640 And also if you use cases payments are definitely the 302 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,840 biggest ones. I mean, in Argentina you can, 303 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:29,240 you can see people using crypto. We estimate that about 5 million 304 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:33,160 people using on a daily basis and 20% in the country own 305 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,840 crypto, 5 million using on a daily basis. 306 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,240 It's 10% of the population. It's it's huge. 307 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:43,360 And so they use crypto obviously for several reason, but for for 308 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,000 payment because it's convenient. So when you pay a merchant, they 309 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,960 often don't get the the money into their bank for 20 days. 310 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,200 It's very common here. And also when they're paid into 311 00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:56,440 pesos, well, the, the money filtrate, right? 312 00:16:56,440 --> 00:17:01,760 Like the inflation is very famous in like infamous, I would 313 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,400 say. And so the pesos have been 314 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,920 crashing for the last many, many years. 315 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:11,079 And even this year, like I was here earlier this year and now 316 00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:16,200 my dollar is 70% more powerful. So I leave it myself, coming 317 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:21,400 here three times this year. It's very like it's the, the 318 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,400 need for crypto and Ethereum is obvious. 319 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,440 You have the system of Quevas. I'm not sure if you've 320 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:31,240 experienced that, but you send a message on Telegram or WhatsApp 321 00:17:31,440 --> 00:17:35,000 and you send a crypto transaction with USDT on 322 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:40,000 Ethereum or other other network and the guy shows up with a bag 323 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,600 of cash in front of your door. It's, I think not really legal, 324 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:48,440 but not really for being. Everyone is doing it and it's 325 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,080 not common like we've been many service providers doing the 326 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,640 same, like the guy send you just an address, you need to send 327 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,040 $500 there and hope for the best. 328 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,240 But then the thing happened and happens. 329 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,560 And it's quite surprising. It's very common and it's 330 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,960 happening with crypto because it's simply better. 331 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,280 And it's amazing to see. And this is also why we're we're 332 00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:10,160 here, yeah. That's fascinating. 333 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:16,680 And did did you guys encounter any real issues with like 334 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:18,880 currency fluctuations or these certain things that when 335 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,960 organizing? Yes, yes, because we are 336 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,080 planning this event we for a year, I mean we are working for 337 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,240 more than a year on this event. And so quotes vary. 338 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,640 We need to be careful about what currency do we use, how like 339 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,960 split the payments in time so that it doesn't fluctuate too 340 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:39,360 much. We had often had puts getting 341 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,160 plus 20% because of currency evaluation. 342 00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:45,320 The biggest impact we, well the biggest sort of thing that 343 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,280 struck us was that contracts don't matter. 344 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,040 They want the money in the account. 345 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:53,840 And so we've had at least one con one service provider cancel 346 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,720 our contract after a very short period time, just several days 347 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,000 because we hadn't made the made the payment and we didn't 348 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:01,800 realized just how important it was for them to have payment. 349 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,120 Then we sort of felt that throughout, you know, the entire 350 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:06,280 process of working for service providers is that they don't 351 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,800 care until the money is in the in the bank yet. 352 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,720 And you can, you can understand, you can understand that they've, 353 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,520 they've gone through tough situations. 354 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,600 They, they've gone through a situation where banks were 355 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,040 closing their accounts, like where they could not accept the 356 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,280 money into the banks. And so I mean, we've been 357 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,520 talking about this like, you know, censorship resistance in 358 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,360 Europe and in US and we talk about it, but we've never 359 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,720 experienced it ourselves. I mean, I have never been bank 360 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,440 less. And so I don't understand the 361 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:37,040 same way I don't understand or I don't feel it feel the same way 362 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:40,440 as an Argentina that gone through the Coradito crisis in 363 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,080 2001. Like feel about crypto. 364 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,160 Like it's not, it's not the same. 365 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,840 They really, they've been through it and not all of them. 366 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:49,200 Obviously now we have a lot of young people that are into it, 367 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,520 but but their, their parents live through it. 368 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,480 And so they understand. So it's so yeah. 369 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:56,280 They they. Yeah. 370 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,360 Well, maybe let's look back to the event. 371 00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:02,080 So we're almost, we're more than halfway through. 372 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,800 It's a little bit early, but what are your preliminary take 373 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,560 home take home learning? So kind of like what, what 374 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,160 worked well, what didn't go so well? 375 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,720 What? What will you be seeing more of 376 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:17,120 in the future? All right. 377 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,880 I'll start with what did not go well. 378 00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:21,720 Is this the Internet? Right. 379 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:25,320 I think that's the entire city of Buenos Aires. 380 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,560 I mean, I've found the Internet to be very shoddy everywhere. 381 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:28,620 Yeah. Right. 382 00:20:28,620 --> 00:20:30,680 Wi-Fi situation is not great in the Huntington. 383 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:36,440 Generally Wi-Fi situation in this building is very well known 384 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,360 to be catastrophic. And So what happened is that we 385 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:43,160 built the whole system from scratch and it was a huge 386 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,320 endeavor. And on top of that, there are, 387 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,120 there were many, many things that we did not control, like 388 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,960 cloud fare outage and, and other things. 389 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,440 I'm not blaming external factors, but it was a huge 390 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,520 endeavour. We, we hired some of the best 391 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:03,120 companies, private companies to set up the whole thing from 392 00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:04,560 scratch. I can send you the pictures of 393 00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:09,320 the the 50 luggage that we brought like huge a luggage of 394 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:12,480 material that we brought to build the whole thing from 395 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:13,840 scratch. You will see all the setup 396 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,680 everywhere. If you look now, it's now, it's 397 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,640 set up, it's back, it's working. But we had a rough time at the 398 00:21:20,640 --> 00:21:22,480 beginning. I think that was the main 399 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,520 criticism if not the only that we received probably coffee 400 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,600 fixed but but in the end I think we have not received too much 401 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,560 complaints. Cloud fair helps maybe a little 402 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,120 bit, but I think it was also a good occasion to to disconnect 403 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:38,280 so. I think it was actually so kind 404 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:40,560 of it was actually quite nice because kind of like we were 405 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,280 planning kind of like on our noses booth, we were planning to 406 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:46,640 kind of on board people and show them the things and none of that 407 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,200 worked. But it didn't didn't just. 408 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:49,360 It didn't. Sorry about that. 409 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:51,640 No, no, no, It's all. It's a kind of like I, I, I'm, 410 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,160 I'm drawing the silver lining here. 411 00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:56,520 So kind of because it also didn't work for anyone else, 412 00:21:56,640 --> 00:21:58,200 people were forced to make conversation. 413 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:59,800 There you go, right. It's kind of like they actually 414 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,400 got talking about the things and kind of like, and I, I often I, 415 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:06,440 I think kind of like often we kind of jump in and say, let me 416 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:08,600 just show you. And then you show show people 417 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,240 and kind of like you that kind of often next part of the 418 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,520 narrative of why you're actually doing it. 419 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:19,240 And I think not having the app to show I'm, I'm if I could, if 420 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:23,320 I could choose kind of like a future setup, these, these, 421 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:26,000 these have the Wi-Fi, but kind of like if the Wi-Fi doesn't 422 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,720 work, it's not that everything doesn't work anymore. 423 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:31,280 It's kind of like that kind of that you, you find different 424 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:32,960 levels kind of connect with people on. 425 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,320 It's interesting. So for us, it was like one of 426 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,600 the biggest learning as an event organizer that we, we clearly 427 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,320 understood the impact that no Wi-Fi, no Wi-Fi means that like 428 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,120 on the live streams, on the user experience, really it's not 429 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:52,720 great on many, many items. The repo effects were huge. 430 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,200 But surprisingly, we have not received that many complaints. 431 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,880 I mean, that was the main one. But we, we saw that like people 432 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,320 connecting more people, not so many people complain. 433 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:05,080 Surprisingly, we were like, for us, it was the end of the world. 434 00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,640 But at the end of the day, he was not too bad. 435 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,440 And we feel the situation and so, so now it's OK. 436 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,000 But but yeah, it won't happen again. 437 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,880 That was the biggest challenge since day one, organizing this 438 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,000 event at this venue. We knew it. 439 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:25,760 We took all the measures that we could possibly take, but we knew 440 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,240 some outage would happen. And it happened, and we did our 441 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,040 rest. We talked about the Internet, 442 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:35,000 the coffee and the tea bags. It was a little bit weird. 443 00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,880 Yeah, I saw those are the. Kind of, I kind of like, I kind 444 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:40,400 of like the tea bags myself there. 445 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:41,120 You go, Yeah. And. 446 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,280 You push for getting more people to drink, Marty, because the 447 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,760 Marty's chips were out. So kind of like they were making 448 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,320 the the coffee deliberately shitty so people would kind of 449 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,200 try try the thing they don't know. 450 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:56,080 That was our purpose. It's the kind of elements when 451 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,920 you organize an event that you know, it's the kind of details 452 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,440 that you have to go into every detail and check, Oh, you serve 453 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,960 coffee or the space? How is the coffee? 454 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,480 Show me the coffee, Show me this not powder coffee that you put 455 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,440 water into, right? So it's also learning like if 456 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,400 you want high quality events, you need to take all the 457 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,440 details. And also with the scale of what 458 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,000 we're doing is it was sometimes hard to to go so precisely into 459 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,080 a digital test, but but well, we fixed it. 460 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:29,360 It's very good learning. Tell me about the, the boots and 461 00:24:29,360 --> 00:24:33,160 kind of the, the fair element of this, right, Because that's new. 462 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:37,840 And kind of if you go to talks, it's actually a little bit sad 463 00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:40,760 because there's almost no one there, but people love the 464 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:42,480 boots. All the boots are crowded. 465 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,080 So kind of like it seems like you kind of like hit the hit the 466 00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,000 nail on the head here. Right. 467 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,520 So I guess the the experience shifted a little. 468 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,560 The idea of the warfare was to showcase the apps. 469 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:57,000 So to have more of like country concrete showcases was we put a 470 00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,120 lot of focus on that specifically. 471 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:03,560 So we had eight districts. We like defy AI hardware and 472 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,200 wallets, collectibles, layer twos. 473 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,440 What am I missing? Privacy gaming. 474 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,440 So I think that was it. And we wanted we wanted to 475 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,040 experiment with a new format, have a more concrete way for 476 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,400 people to interact with the events. 477 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,200 So I think people loved it. It's new for the EF especially. 478 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,280 Like we usually we were like very like showcasing projects, 479 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,520 but in the plain neutral way. And now we went into like full 480 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,120 mode into selecting the best projects or some of the best 481 00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,400 projects, including like the the biggest international, the 482 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,840 biggest projects, also the, the best local ones. 483 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,280 So you can see the exchanges like below Ripio Lemon and you 484 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,600 can experiment with them. And we were also able to 485 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,920 showcase some licensed 1. So you have on ramping stations 486 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:50,520 with a repo where you can buy crypto on the ground. 487 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,080 So that's also something else that we've done is that we've 488 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,600 allowed and we've worked with merchants to have crypto 489 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,360 payments. So you can pay with crypto and 490 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,080 everywhere in the venue with table coins or ES. 491 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,320 And we've also facilitated and with the app, a way for you to 492 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,520 connect any external wallets or if you don't have a wallet with 493 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,640 an e-mail, create a wallet and get into the RMP station or 494 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:16,520 claim a peanut link so that you can have $2.00 to buy a coffee 495 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,920 or something like that. So we really wanted to give a 496 00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,880 concrete experience of like what could a city living on Etherium 497 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,880 could, could be like. I will not agree with you. 498 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:28,080 That's all that, but the rooms are imt. 499 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,080 You have some rooms like. No, I was, I was, I was kind of 500 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,520 like, I, I was, I was exaggerating a bit. 501 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:35,840 But there's one room that's absolutely massive. 502 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,320 And I think it would, it would take probably like 2000 people 503 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,960 at least kind of like put to actually fill it up. 504 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,400 So it's like we organized a big room for the biggest events. 505 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,960 Ethereum Day was really packed. We had the econ the massive 506 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,400 event organized by all the local communities. 507 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,880 It's the time is Quipu with like the mayor of Buenos Aires that 508 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,160 came Chiquita Pia, the head of like the football organization 509 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:06,280 in Argentina that came the room was packed from from like from 510 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,600 the beginning to the end. So yes, the the events coming 511 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:13,160 afterwards with smaller capacity feel the the difference. 512 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:17,240 Obviously, where would you think it'd be the rooms arranging the 513 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,960 set up a little bit, but but yeah. 514 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:23,320 But I invite you to go see some of their events with the 515 00:27:23,360 --> 00:27:25,840 hackathon that is completely full of hackers right now 516 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,560 happening in the middle of the week. 517 00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,240 So I think kind of like talks is actually very specific thing, 518 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:32,760 right? Because kind of like if you have 519 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,680 a talk somewhere, it's mostly the endorsement that you you can 520 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,080 have the talk, then I would I would always assume that kind of 521 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:44,120 like 98% of people who watch my talk actually watch it later on 522 00:27:44,120 --> 00:27:47,880 YouTube. And so so and I also take that 523 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,840 that stunts when I I'm at an event, kind of like I 524 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,840 deprioritize going to talks because I know I can watch them 525 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,440 on the way home, right. So it's and I think that's 526 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,200 that's generally kind of do. You really do that because 527 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,200 everybody says they do that, but I don't actually watch them on 528 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:05,760 the way. I usually sleep on the plane. 529 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:07,640 100%, yeah. So kind of, yeah. 530 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,760 I need to I need to maximize my playing time. 531 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,680 Victoria kind of, I'm also I, I don't know whether kind of like 532 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:13,800 we've known each other a long time. 533 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,240 Don't know whether you know this, but also patience is not 534 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:19,680 one of my virtues. So kind of like and and kind of 535 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,640 feel to kind of Fast forward someone on YouTube is way less 536 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:25,560 offensive than saying just speed it up. 537 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,640 I think so. That's an interesting one. 538 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,960 For years we've been saying that the conference model is broken 539 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:36,560 and no one is attending the talk. 540 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,120 I still think that's when you're passionate about the topic that 541 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:41,640 you want to be the first one to see. 542 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,800 Attending your talk is different like like going to see obviously 543 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,600 Vitalic or any person that you really enjoy like you will, you 544 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,760 will sit here, you will not take your phone and you will listen 545 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,640 to the to the talk and you have the experience and the immersion 546 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,040 like the same way you would go to a concert and enjoy the 547 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,520 experience. But that's a small fraction of 548 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,680 the talks, right? Probably, but I, I, I do think 549 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:08,160 that's when you a topic matter. I think it's a, it's a personal 550 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,280 question. If you really care about a topic 551 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,400 and you like the speaker, you would go to like in the room and 552 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,600 then speak to the person or I agree, it's a small fraction. 553 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:22,040 I think that's, I mean, we have to think about it as event 554 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,000 organizers, like how do we manage this? 555 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,200 The speakers still want a place on stage. 556 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,440 They want to show a. 100% I, I mean, I also gave a talk and 557 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,840 kind of like, I'm happy I gave a talk because kind of like the, 558 00:29:33,920 --> 00:29:35,920 the curation is part of the service, right? 559 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,440 So to have having the talk up late and kind of like linking, 560 00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,840 linking it to kind of give people an intro what you're 561 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:44,600 doing. I think it's it's, it's super 562 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:48,640 valuable. So I mean nowadays all the talks 563 00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:50,400 are so live stream they recorded. 564 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,560 We see a lot of people in the live streams actually. 565 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,120 So even when the room is half half full, you can like you 566 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,920 often times have 345 times the people like like watching in the 567 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,320 stream. So I think we should be low ego 568 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:09,840 as well as speakers or and do not feel bad because the room is 569 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,120 half 100. Percent, 100%. 570 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,160 But I think like one, one of the things that's really important 571 00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:19,640 to recognize as event organizers is that you know, your your 572 00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,200 content is not just who's sitting in your room, but it's 573 00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,200 also the reach. And, you know, if you're 574 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,600 marketing that content well, you're going to get lots of 575 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,000 eyeballs on on those ideas. And I think at the end of the 576 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,440 day is what really matters. I do want to talk a little bit 577 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,480 about like, so the main themes this week, not just here, but 578 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,440 all the side events. And there's been a few that have 579 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,200 struck me up. Obviously like stable coins have 580 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,800 been a massively important topic in the last few months, but also 581 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,240 this year that but privacy seems to be the main thing. 582 00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,640 And we yesterday we were talking to Peter Van Volkenburg about 583 00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,640 this. And my my question to him was, 584 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:58,360 you know, is the interest in privacy driven by the market or 585 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,760 is the market reacting to the interest in privacy? 586 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,640 Is it, it was sort of like a chicken and egg thing? 587 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,160 My question would be like, why? Why do you think now Etherium 588 00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:10,360 seems to be, like, taking privacy very seriously And, you 589 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,760 know, like, the sunglasses of Italic will be like a meme that 590 00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:16,160 will live on forever. And I think, like, it's going to 591 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,120 solidify this idea that Ethereum needs to be private. 592 00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:19,640 Like, why? Why is it so important now? 593 00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,760 I think. Pragmatically, the ethermic 594 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,440 system been solving one problem after the other. 595 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,720 We've sold the merge, right? We've we've moved to proof of 596 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,840 stake, We solved scalability. Now transactions are like fast 597 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,160 and cheap. We're solving fragmentation, 598 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,800 we're solving UX. I think this is ongoing. 599 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,480 That's been ongoing for many years, like part of the next big 600 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,520 topics and privacy is one of them. 100% If we want credible, 601 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:52,160 credibly neutral technology, permissionless technology, 602 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,680 censorship resistant technology, we need privacy. 603 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,720 And when you think about it, if we don't have this, like if we 604 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,680 don't have privacy, then you can identify the person or the the 605 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,800 network or the tool and just kill it. 606 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,680 So privacy is just a need, it's a human rights. 607 00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,400 And I think so that's on the tech side. 608 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,520 If you don't have privacy, the tech is just simply limited and 609 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,640 you you cannot fulfil the promise of what Ethereum aims 610 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,400 that, you know, achieving. So that's one of the tech side. 611 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:27,720 And I think currently, like nowadays with the rise of far 612 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:33,920 right or like extreme parties in both sides and nationalism and 613 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,520 media control and things like that, you need and just 614 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,040 surveillance tools that have been widespread in and for many 615 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:49,240 years now, but maybe increasing a bit, we need even more privacy 616 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:51,640 technology and privacy implementation of privacy 617 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,400 generally. When you see regulation like 618 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:59,520 chat control potentially coming to Europe, I mean, that was 619 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,680 crazy. I don't go into politics often, 620 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,920 but when I looked at that, I show that to my family like this 621 00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,080 is this is I don't I'm not sure, sorry if I cannot say that on 622 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,560 the recording, but that was that way louder, extremely 623 00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,360 concerning, extremely concerning like having shot control would 624 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,800 have caused signal to potentially stop operations like 625 00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,120 this is massive. This is not only this is not 626 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,080 only Ethereum or blockchain related. 627 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,360 This is like a society problem like it was crazy. 628 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,120 It was even. Considered and kind of like I 629 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,280 mean, so basically kind of like it failed in the end, but kind 630 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,040 of it failed because by by just so kind of like Germany was 631 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:36,640 actually the deciding vote in the end. 632 00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,840 And kind of like that it failed because there were some concerns 633 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,360 about how it was implemented. And I was like, what what do you 634 00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,560 mean some sense? So this is insane. 635 00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:49,160 And, and I think this is something that the Ethereum 636 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,720 committee also take, you know, like take very seriously and it 637 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:57,040 makes me proud to be working the Ethereum committee that cares so 638 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,920 much about privacy and that has some of the best cryptographic, 639 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:06,240 you know, researchers and moving like forward the needle of I 640 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,920 mean, the yeah, moving forward the cryptography with DK tech 641 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:12,520 and, and, and privacy tech in general, because I feel that 642 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,679 this is also how our ecosystem can have a very strong impact in 643 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,239 the world. Like when you yeah, again, like 644 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,320 when you promote censorship resistance, you need privacy. 645 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:21,639 And This is why I think it matters. 646 00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:25,400 This is why Ethereum Foundation even is working a privacy wallet 647 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:30,040 with other partners. This is why the topic is so 648 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,080 important today. I to answer your question also 649 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,840 shortly, it's, I think it's a matter of priority. 650 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,719 We had to solve things before solving that. 651 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,520 But now it's, it looks like a big, a big elephant in the room 652 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,080 that if you don't solve like it's just we're not fulfilling 653 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:45,920 the full like the the entire value prop of Ethereum and 654 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,920 decentralized technology. So we need we need to address 655 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:49,360 it. Yeah, I, I think. 656 00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:53,000 There's, there's also an, another concern with privacy is 657 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,600 that in order for Ethereum to be credible in the institutional 658 00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,800 space and for businesses, you need privacy because like 659 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:04,240 businesses have privacy and, and they, they lobby for, I mean, 660 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:06,600 they, they, they have it and they want to keep it. 661 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,440 Because I think, you know, there's sort of an adage that 662 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,400 capitalism works because you have individual privacy and you 663 00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,240 have businesses that can have privacy over their transactions 664 00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:16,680 in a business deal. That's sort of like constant 665 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:21,120 arbitrage, right? And, And a world where 666 00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:25,680 everything is totally on chain is a world where so like the 667 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,360 economy sort of comes to a halt, right? 668 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:33,200 And but. Yeah, I I do think that if. 669 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,160 You're sort of took this priority a bit late, not saying 670 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,480 like scaling and those things were not important, but they 671 00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:44,000 took a long time and. I I think that. 672 00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,840 Privacy just because of sort of the ethos of Etherium and and 673 00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,160 also like the risk that sort of people in crypto are generally, 674 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:55,880 you know, so they, they exist in a space that's more risky to 675 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,600 their like they're kind of financial freedom or their in, 676 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:02,360 in whatever, depending on the country where they may be or 677 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,720 even their security. Like we're both, we both live in 678 00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:06,800 France. We know what that's like, you 679 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,080 know, to be concerned about your security. 680 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:11,720 I think privacy is kind of because it's a priority that 681 00:36:11,720 --> 00:36:14,160 should have been, I think prioritized earlier than than 682 00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:15,040 later. But it's great that it's 683 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:16,280 happening. But yeah, that's my take. 684 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:18,240 Yeah, I I would actually, I think. 685 00:36:18,240 --> 00:36:20,920 I would counter that I think kind of I, I do actually think I 686 00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,240 mean privacy is super important 100%. 687 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:26,920 First of all, I don't think the economy would grind to a heart 688 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,720 of kind of like no private transactions where possible, but 689 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,720 no. But if we were if the. 690 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,840 Economic rails were fully on chain and businesses couldn't do 691 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,560 things in a private way. It would be very difficult to 692 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:40,280 win business. Yeah. 693 00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:43,680 So kind of like it would change. The modus operandi for sure, but 694 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,720 I think kind of like the the cryptography that kind of like 695 00:36:46,720 --> 00:36:50,560 underpins privacy. It's come such a long way in the 696 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,480 last five years. So having, having had this as a 697 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:57,080 priority five years ago would have set us up for failure. 698 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,320 So kind of like if we say we have to solve privacy 1st and 699 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,080 then we do scaling, I think I, I think that would have, would 700 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,200 have been putting, putting the who's before the cut. 701 00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:08,840 I think we, I mean we did not have the. 702 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,920 Tech also back in the days, I mean it was not even possible. 703 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:15,600 Possibly it was not possible at the at the time like now we have 704 00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,480 ZK that solves both both like privacy and scalability. 705 00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:21,200 So, and how much? How much? 706 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:25,240 I mean, look at the real real time proving stats. 707 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:28,200 Crazy, crazy that this now works. 708 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,560 Had anyone told us this five years ago, we, I I would not 709 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:33,400 have believed it. I would not have believed it. 710 00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,800 So it's great to see good but. Now let's look into the. 711 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,880 Future. So where next for? 712 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,720 Defcon and defconnect. What are you going to, what are 713 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:46,880 you going to do differently? And most importantly, where is 714 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:49,560 it going to be? So yeah, I'm very excited. 715 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:56,440 To announce that DEFCON will be happening in Mumbai in India 716 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,000 next year. So we're working hard on making 717 00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,040 that happen. But that will be after 718 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,000 Defconnect Argentina. So, so yeah, we're going to 719 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,400 announce that at the end of of the event. 720 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,200 So by the time it's really easy, it will be it will be live. 721 00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:13,880 Yes, we're very excited to go there. 722 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,560 We've never been in that region, in that country and and we have 723 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:23,320 we simply have 1.5 billion attendees to potentially tap 724 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,320 into. So that's going to be that's 725 00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:27,920 going to be big. So go also same following the 726 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,560 principles of where can we go first like where others would 727 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:35,560 not and where can we have the big potential impacts on the 728 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:39,680 region. And India has been at the top of 729 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,520 the charts in terms of number of developers, in terms of crypto 730 00:38:42,520 --> 00:38:46,240 adoption, in terms of usage in general. 731 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,960 Regulation seems to be moving favorably as well. 732 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,200 It's always up and down. It's a complex environment, but 733 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,240 but we are confident so that it's going to be very, very 734 00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:01,600 positive for the ecosystem for the region as well. 735 00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,800 And we hope that we can also have an again have a very strong 736 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:10,000 impact and replicate the some of the efforts that we've been 737 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:11,880 doing here and you know other countries. 738 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,200 So we're very excited about about this location just because 739 00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:16,800 that's DEFCON. Defcon. 740 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,840 Defcon will be in Mumbai. I can clarify as well. 741 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,880 That's. I think we're move. 742 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:23,720 Let's see, let's see how it goes. 743 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,480 I think we're moving a bit like I think this event has been a 744 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,760 hybrid model between past DEFCON X and past DEFCON. 745 00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,360 We've done much more ourselves. It's much more centralized. 746 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,360 And so let's see how DEFCON evolved. 747 00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,760 I haven't been able to. We haven't been able to work too 748 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,240 much on this, but it will be closer to DEFCON fairly much. 749 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:46,360 Probably there will be a merge in. 750 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:51,880 Branding, we've already been using the Devcon X accounts. 751 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,840 I think we'll be re merging the branding. 752 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,520 Just there has been some confusion in the past. 753 00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:01,600 The events were very different in the past. 754 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,840 We've made sense at the time. Now it's no longer really the 755 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,400 case. Maybe I think the I like the 756 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,200 branding Ethereum was fair. Let's see if we keep that one. 757 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,240 Defcon for sure will remain. Let's see what happens with 758 00:40:14,240 --> 00:40:16,640 Defconnect TBD. But next year is Defcon. 759 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,440 So are you saying that like Defcon? 760 00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:24,800 Would possibly happen every year or like some new like mutant 761 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,840 child of Defcon and Defconnect might happen every year. 762 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,160 I mean, and that back in the day. 763 00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:30,840 Defcon used to happen every year, so kind of like this. 764 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,320 This used to be a yearly thing until kind of Defconnect stepped 765 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,920 into the Yeah. Also, it's the same team. 766 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,440 Right. So the I do think though that's 767 00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:45,880 we're adapting always our events to the, to the place, to the 768 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:47,880 format, to the state of the ecosystem. 769 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:51,720 So let's see what what is going to be. 770 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,200 What are you most excited about? Doing defcon in India. 771 00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:02,160 Inviting the all the new developers are coming from 772 00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,800 India. Like, yeah, I mean, we've, we've 773 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:10,200 invited a lot of officials from India and Bhutan to to see 774 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,920 what's what's happening in in Argentina. 775 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,720 We've met with the ambassadors and we've invited the embassy to 776 00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:18,840 come here and to see a bit what's like. 777 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,920 We're very excited to start working with the local 778 00:41:21,920 --> 00:41:24,400 communities. It's very different from 779 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,000 Argentina in the way that the communities and the projects in 780 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:29,280 India. For a long time, I've been 781 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,640 working outside of India. So they're based in Dubai, 782 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:37,440 Singapore, other places for mostly regulatory reasons, but 783 00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:40,880 we hope that you can improve. We hope that maybe we can help 784 00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:44,840 bring the attention and back into India with some help from 785 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:48,880 the regulatory side of things. But yeah, very excited to to 786 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:53,160 welcome all these developers to have a lot of local attendees. 787 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,760 I think the focus will be on India for sure. 788 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:59,600 It will not be a region thing, will be India because it's it's 789 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,200 a continent in itself. So yeah, I think, I think. 790 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,440 I think one of the things that could be very interesting there 791 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,720 like you mentioned is like the diaspora coming back, like 792 00:42:07,720 --> 00:42:12,200 American Indian diaspora coming to India and inspiring like the 793 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,840 local developers there. I think that would be probably 794 00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:19,280 one of the outcomes here is that you just get this huge 795 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,520 inspiration within like the in the local Indian developer 796 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,440 community to start buildings for India rather than like just 797 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,960 outside of the country, right. And as a matter of fact. 798 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,000 We've been in touch with everyone like most of the big 799 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,440 companies already in India. I mean, Polygon is an example. 800 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,640 The Folio Denver from the Folio has been super helpful. 801 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,960 We, we have some Indian folks in the air we've been talking with 802 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:45,320 and they've been help. They've been helping us with 803 00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,880 local contacts and stuff and we've been talking. 804 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:54,560 I mean, for example, Moody's from Polygon is based in it's in 805 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,840 other places. There's been A and yes, I agree. 806 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:00,760 So a great take. Like you have people from India 807 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,400 everywhere in the world working the biggest project everywhere. 808 00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,520 The same way, by the way, are continuing are in most biggest 809 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:12,640 protocols like have a uni swap all the biggest. 810 00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:16,360 You have sometimes one super strong and continuing developers 811 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:19,360 Wonderland was helping with the privacy wallet. 812 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,360 It was a super, super strong dev shop, which is not I don't think 813 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,960 they like the dev shop, sorry, but so you have so much strong 814 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:31,440 team from so much also strong developers and people from 815 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,280 India. That's I think it's going to be 816 00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,440 interesting and we're going to see an interesting momentum. 817 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:39,600 So let's see how it goes. Mumbai is interesting city. 818 00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,000 Obviously it's not. So Mumbai is like the financial 819 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:46,080 hub of India. The tech hub is more Bangalore, 820 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,040 but we there's no suitable venue in Bangalore, although everyone 821 00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:54,040 from Bangalore will fly. I will tell the rain like they 822 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,240 fully organize it. I got on your train the last, 823 00:43:56,240 --> 00:43:59,160 I'm not sure if you've seen that, but that was insane. 824 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,480 I mean, the guys are so motivated like. 825 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:05,600 So yeah, we're going. We're excited about this one and 826 00:44:05,600 --> 00:44:09,520 see and see what happens. Yeah, well, I can't. 827 00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:12,120 Wait to take this opportunity to spend like a month in India, 828 00:44:12,240 --> 00:44:16,000 right? And yeah, fantastic. 829 00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:19,040 Nathan, thank you so much for taking the time during this 830 00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:23,240 very, very busy time for you to kind of talk with us. 831 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,960 And I have to say, you look remarkably well for someone who 832 00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,080 hasn't slept in a week doing all right. 833 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:32,280 Thanks. Thank you.