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This is epicenter episode 483 
with guests Louis. 

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She's good and him apart. 
Welcome to epicenter the show 

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which talks about Technologies, 
projects, and people driving 

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decentralisation and the 
blockchain revolution. 

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I am going to take a chance. 
And today, I'm speaking with 

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bluish G skin to my art who are 
the founders of gelato a project

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which makes blockchain deaths. 
Lives easier, through Automation

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and other things. 
We are talking about this in 

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just a bit but before we do, Let
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anyone with your assets. 
Other than yourself and they 

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Give them new. 

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It's super nice to have. 
You buy a both on Lewis and 

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Hammer. 
We go Way Way Back. 

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So pretty early on in your web 
three Journey, you guys got the 

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Grant from the noses ecosystem 
fund but we'll get to that. 

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So maybe maybe tell us about 
yourselves and who you were 

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before you know, before 
blockchain and how you guys met.

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Oh yeah, hi, hi Fredrik. 
Is, of course, first of all, 

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thanks for hosting us. 
You excited to finally be on the

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Fe set up Podcast. 
I remember still listening to it

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when the bear Market times, 
2017, 2018, and of course beyond

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that. 
So, so awesome to be here. 

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Yeah. 
Maybe I can start giving it like

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a quick background. 
What we actually, how we came 

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into the space and I think, as a
sort of context, what is always 

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interesting for me to looking 
back is like, we are Like 

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post-financial Crisis sort of 
generation after 2028. 

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And I think this sort of had a 
quite the impact in how we 

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thought about financial systems.
And why we we were very eager 

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25. 
And with retain mode came around

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to sort of participate in that. 
And the reason I we met I think 

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we have like quite the same same
Journey, the two of us so so I 

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can maybe speak for the both of 
us. 

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We met in high school actually. 
Ready in the UK, and then both 

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studied in London. 
I studied Finance, Lewis 

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politics. 
He focused more like the game 

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theory side of things and now we
then went to Berlin because we 

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both had sort of like the the 
dream to become entrepreneurs, 

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Founders doing our project. 
And so we started to to learn 

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the craft in that sense in 
Berlin in Berlin and at some 

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point is Master's degree there 
as well. 

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And they're actually we met a 
colleague of ours who was 

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working at MasterCard and he 
kept talking about blockchain 

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back then, I like 20 2016 and so
on and got us quite excited 

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about it. 
And at the same time, the Dow 

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started and I read this article 
about it and was super 

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fascinated by it. 
And you have we've participated 

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in the Dow and we, I remember we
had to buy. 

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He's on crack for the first time
when I was like eight. 

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Dollars. 
And I was like, what is this 

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either? 
Just want to participate in the 

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Dow and yeah, that's sort of got
us hooked. 

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So so we were like, Ethier and 
natives. 

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We didn't we kind of skip the 
Bitcoin part all together and 

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yeah that from then almost just 
the red, little wrote Our Master

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thesis on my Crypt, I think 
Louis you on, put it on a u.s. 

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consensus algorithms and yeah, 
then we actually sooner fell 

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Master. 
We started working at a start-up

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in Berlin, that help. 
Jake's like pick European based 

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projects such as by on of 
artists or others experiment 

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with like blockchains and eat 
evm, private networks and they 

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have we helped build those up 
but they are five blockchain 

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things were I think a bit early 
back then and I got the boring. 

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And so we decide to just like, 
get out there, go back to 

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research, learn more, the 
in-depth, engineering of 

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everything, I've participated 
hackathons that we went to like 

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three, four, five different 
hackathons all around the world.

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Old just started building and it
had this idea about this Steve 

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application that we wanted to 
build which was like a landing 

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protocol on top of the Dutch 
eggs that we wanted to build. 

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And I think the sort of like 
ties as in very nicely into how 

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we met you and the noses team. 
And yeah, then we remember we we

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sort of started applying for for
Brands like the gecko one and 

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yet this is sort of in how the 
whole journey officially 

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started, I guess. 
I think you may have been our 

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most successful gecko Grant 
receiver. 

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You actually submitted a 
proposal for something called 

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instant DX and I actually 
checked it out last night. 

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Again, it's actually. 
It's pretty cool. 

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Do you still remember what it 
was about? 

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Yeah, yeah, totally. 
Also, I thank you very much 

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Frederick you for hosting us. 
I think he'll mind, I completely

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share the history of our private
and business lives of the last 

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12 years. 
So I don't have any everything I

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do, he doesn't. 
Yeah, and vice versa. 

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So so yeah. 
So actually I do remember the 

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instant, the X quite well, which
is it was Houmas and my sort of 

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first solidity project other 
than hackathon project before. 

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And we, we basically looked at 
the Dutch X, which was a really 

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cool idea back. 
Then, as always noses, was very 

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early maybe even too early with,
with these great Innovations. 

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The Dutch expose a decentralized
exchange diagnosis. 

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That was based on a reverse 
Dutch auction mechanism. 

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And one of the things there was 
that users or participants in 

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the auction would have to wait 
20 up to 24 hours. 

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I'll be for clearance and then 
they would have to come back and

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remember to withdraw their 
proceeds. 

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And there's, of course, wasn't 
very great ux. 

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It was very slow. 
You had to wait, you were 

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impatient? 
So we were then thinking, okay, 

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how can we sort of make this 
better, right? 

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And the first idea? 
We had was actually very deep 

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fry. 
Yes, it was basically having a 

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pool of liquidity to front the 
proceeds of the auction. 

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Cause you I think you were able 
to at least by a margin sort of 

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deterministically, have a 
guarantee of roughly, how much I

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use. 
I would get And yeah, we would 

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then instantly X was, I was 
basically fronting this money. 

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So you would be immediately able
to withdraw a portion of your 

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proceeds. 
And then yeah, that actually 

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turned as well into thinking 
about automating the withdraws 

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from the auction. 
And that's really when we 

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stumbled upon the great problem.
That is smart contract 

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Automation in the constraints of
an evm. 

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And that's how we then realized.
OK, actually automating 

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withdrawals. 
And so on is actually, quite 

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it's not built into The evm, 
it's not supported natively by a

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theorem. 
So how how do we do that? 

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And then we realized wait a 
second. 

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There's a, there's like a whole 
need here for generalistic 

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automation protocol to allow a 
smart contract, applications to 

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be automated to have automated 
processes, and that's how we 

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very quickly. 
Then stumbled upon gelato. 

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I believe, we already rebranded 
from instant. 

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The X2 gelato in May of 2019 and
started the grant as gelato 

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back, then with our first 
mission to automate withdraws 

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from the Dutch X. 
Yeah, I think it's super 

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important to kind of remember 
that this was four years ago and

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basically all the things that 
kind of seem like common place. 

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Now back then they were they 
were cutting edge. 

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So, as a space, we've we've come
quite quite a way but kind of 

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the fundamental problem or one 
of the fundamental problems with

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smart contract, automation, kind
of boils down to the fact that 

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smart contracts don't do 
anything unless they're poked, 

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right? 
Right. 

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So when you can't really say, if
this happens to that, then 

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basically, if that has happened,
someone needs to tell the smart 

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contract paycheck, again sort of
thing. 

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So can you talk about that 
problem that you're trying to 

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alleviate? 
Yeah, maybe, maybe I can. 

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I can start losing a few feature
jumped and of course. 

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Yes. 
I think the Foundation of 

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problem that like gelato or like
the initial mission that we want

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to solve his mark on track 
automation, was that that the 

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the protected blockchains the 
processes? 

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Run on evm. 
Blockchains like a theorem are a

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finite. 
So if you want to execute 

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certain business logic, which 
you encode in a smart contract, 

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let's say you want to transfer 
funds to, to a friend, it's a 

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everyday for Then these then you
define the sort of logic within 

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a smart contract. 
And then the actual business 

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logic of that smart contract is 
actually only run if someone 

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sends the transaction to it, 
right? 

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And so, if you think about what 
automation is automation, is, 

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sort of, okay? 
At very granular intervals. 

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I would like, like, preferably 
at every block. 

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I would like to run the sort of 
logic that is in the smart 

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contract to then determine 
whether to send the money to my 

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friend or not. 
And then they also like to 

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Options. 
How you can achieve this on an 

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evm blockchain one is you just 
send a transaction that every 

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block to that's for contract, 
right? 

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Which of course, is not really 
feasible because we all know 

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there's the spam protection 
mechanism was having to pay gas 

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for it. 
And especially when we start on 

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the theory on which was 
completely infeasible because of

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a transaction can cost like $20 
if you're unlucky. 

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And so the other way of doing 
this is actually to have this 

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sort of off chain Computation 
Network that does that 

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simulation for you? 
Not on Shane but of chain and 

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then, once your conditions are 
met and can be fulfilled on, 

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Shane it actually will execute 
and send the transaction on your

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behalf. 
And this is basically what the, 

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the base problem was that we 
wanted to solve, but we wanted 

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to solve it in a generalistic 
way. 

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We started with the sort of 
withdrawal issue, but then we 

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realized, hey, it's not only the
Dutch exit has a problem. 

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If, You want to do a limit 
orders on you. 

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Nice word for examples. 
The same problem if you want to 

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do liquidations for Lending 
protocols, it's the same 

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problem. 
So we realized that defy, 

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especially in defy at the 
beginning is like a the the use 

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case array is just infinite. 
And so that's why we started 

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them building this General 26 
solution for it. 

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Gelato kind of boils down to 
kind of you know being this 

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Marketplace but in principle you
could have also just offered the

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service you know as as an 
infrastructure company writes I 

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mean there's plenty of those out
there whom you can just contract

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and they kind of run you know, 
the devops side of you know you 

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know the blockchain business for
you. 

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What kind of drove you to kind 
of building this very 

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generalistic solution? 
So basically, our mission here 

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was, to bring smart contract 
automation, without trading off 

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the core properties of where 
three like self custody in our 

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private keys. 
So one way to achieve 

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automation, is by giving up 
access to your private Keys, 

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giving up access to your crypto 
assets, whatever they be and 

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give them into the hands of a 
service server company or 

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something and day, then execute 
transactions for you from your 

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account. 
But that would essentially be 

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like what banks do nowadays, 
right? 

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Like, they control all of your 
assets or Facebook controls, all

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of your data. 
And that's how they can actually

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bring Automation and web to 
which is which brings these very

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cool web to use experiences. 
So we have three the problem was

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okay, how can we have automation
while it's not you know, forcing

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users to give up custody over 
their funds and so on and that's

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why we With a smart contract 
protocol. 

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Before we even build any 
servers, we first started with a

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smart contract protocol gelato 
V1 which had some very like, I 

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think, now functions that have 
been copied as well a lot and so

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on, like, it was sort of set, 
its own standard of smart 

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00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:15,100
contract automation with these 
angers and functions can exec. 

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00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,200
So, can I execute here on behalf
of a user and then exact and 

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00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,000
during the onion execution, user
and application would be able to

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00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,000
Define their own business rules 
into the smart contract? 

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00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,700
Which make it so that, you know,
the gelato Bots can. 

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00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,400
First of all, they don't need 
access to your private keys. 

234
00:13:32,500 --> 00:13:35,800
They can execute for you via 
Smart contract mechanisms and 

235
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,500
also at the same time, the smart
contract mechanisms can enforce 

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00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,500
certain business rules, right? 
So that the bot cannot just, I 

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00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:45,100
know, for example, in a limit 
order on uni, swap or on 

238
00:13:45,100 --> 00:13:49,500
pancakes, what which uses two 
large limit orders, actually use

239
00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:54,100
a like report about can only 
execute a limit order to at the 

240
00:13:54,100 --> 00:13:56,000
right price, right? 
Like these are very important. 

241
00:13:56,200 --> 00:13:58,600
Was that are enforced by the 
smart contract. 

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00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:00,600
So that is user as a user. 
You don't have to trust the 

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00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:02,500
gelato about to execute at the 
right price. 

244
00:14:02,500 --> 00:14:04,900
Like, you know, that the smart 
contract logic protects you. 

245
00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,500
And as a bot, you are 
incentivized to execute at the 

246
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:10,600
right price, because then the 
transaction will be successful 

247
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:12,300
and you will get a small reward 
for it. 

248
00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,800
So these sort of encoding these 
rules into smart, contracts was 

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00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,800
essentially what we started with
and that there was like, the 

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00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:24,400
first big version of gelato and 
interestingly, now, we are also 

251
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:28,800
looking into how we can Remove 
the Reliance on just my 

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00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,800
contracts because smart 
contracts and blockchain 

253
00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,400
computation is somewhat limited,
right? 

254
00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:37,500
Like, it doesn't work with a 
heavy computations on and now we

255
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,200
also chipping away at the 
problem of, okay, how can we 

256
00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:44,100
have off chain computation, be 
secured and somewhat like 

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00:14:44,100 --> 00:14:47,800
trustless and, and yeah, so 
we're working on that as well. 

258
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,000
I want to hear about, I want to 
hear more about this in a little

259
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,100
bit. 
That's the the private beta that

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00:14:55,100 --> 00:14:58,600
you just released, right? 
The web three functions, let's 

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00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:04,200
maybe get to the to the core of 
it first. 

262
00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:09,200
So you just said that basically 
Bots do stuff for me if I want 

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00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,200
to automate stuff. 
So who controls the Bots and how

264
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:18,900
do I buy this service from them?
So, who controls the? 

265
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:23,600
But so we have because like 
gelato gelato notes, right? 

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00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:29,200
And from him, and these are 
basically entities that are 

267
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:34,300
running notes for you there. 
Like, you can think of them as 

268
00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:35,400
similar as I can in theory. 
Mm. 

269
00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,100
Not for example, just with the 
difference is that they are not 

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00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:43,800
validating blocks or proposing 
blocks and validating them. 

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00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:50,300
There are Verifying and checking
certain tasks on your behalf all

272
00:15:50,308 --> 00:15:54,300
the time and then executing them
and making sure transactions get

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00:15:54,300 --> 00:15:59,000
included into the blockchain at 
the right time for you and then 

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00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,500
getting getting paid for to do 
that job, right? 

275
00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:06,200
So I'm not sure how you pay any 
theory of note, the transaction 

276
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:11,800
fee of of what you were what you
have to pay and and who is who 

277
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,900
are running this these notes. 
So, so today and this is 

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00:16:14,900 --> 00:16:17,900
actually what we At the very 
beginning, we will have caused 

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00:16:17,900 --> 00:16:22,200
running running the null cells 
and this was so like the 

280
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,900
bootstrapping face of gelato 
gelato was always designed to be

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00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:31,600
the sort of Unstoppable etherium
like protocol which tries to get

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00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:34,700
as close as possible to the 
trust minimization guarantees 

283
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:37,700
that is theorem provides at the 
very beginning. 

284
00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:40,100
We started very good like 
bootstrap you inside. 

285
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:42,300
Okay, let's build all the tools 
first and everything and then 

286
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,800
get to that point later because 
the great thing about how we 

287
00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:50,200
started it with is that the 
trust minimized, the trust 

288
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:53,000
Assumption of a very little 
because we could enforce it all 

289
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:54,400
on chain and smart contracts, 
right? 

290
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:56,500
So the only things you'll have 
to could really do for you. 

291
00:16:56,508 --> 00:16:59,100
At the very beginning was not 
executed transaction at the 

292
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:02,600
right time, but we like we 
couldn't Rocky or something, you

293
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,700
like the little thought, I would
still always execute and you 

294
00:17:04,708 --> 00:17:07,500
would always get the money or it
just wouldn't execute right. 

295
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:09,500
So. 
So that was the great thing, how

296
00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:11,800
we could start. 
And also not worry too much 

297
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:14,500
about likely centralization 
methods, as long as we have 

298
00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:18,700
reliability up time Right? 
And so we like sort of perfected

299
00:17:18,700 --> 00:17:21,800
that process and now I think it 
will go there. 

300
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,200
Probably in a second we're 
moving much more into. 

301
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:29,100
How can we offload that 
computation that is done by 

302
00:17:29,100 --> 00:17:33,100
smart contracts to enforce 
certain data Integrity of like 

303
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:36,200
okay what price to use to 
execute a transaction or let's 

304
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,600
say what route should I use to 
get the most optimal Price, 

305
00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:41,400
Right? 
These things that are very hard 

306
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,400
to enforce on Shane. 
How can we do that in the trust 

307
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,100
minimized way? 
Way of chain. 

308
00:17:47,100 --> 00:17:50,000
And this is where 
decentralization comes into play

309
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,600
and this is where you have to 
basically build up a network of 

310
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,600
mobile operators. 
That has steak similar to like 

311
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,500
any theorem proof of stake and 
follows a certain protocol. 

312
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:05,300
That is encoded into the clients
that if they break it they will 

313
00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:07,900
get penalized. 
And if they follow it, they get 

314
00:18:07,900 --> 00:18:11,300
rewarded. 
And this is actually what we are

315
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:14,600
started launching last December.
So, so so now, this like a major

316
00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,000
upgrade. 
We actually announced pretty 

317
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:18,100
soon. 
Is already conducted and we 

318
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:21,700
already have external node 
operators running on this 

319
00:18:21,700 --> 00:18:24,300
network today. 
For example, station facilities,

320
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:27,900
they're running light or nodes 
and other dolls father company 

321
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:31,100
other projects and by the end of
the year. 

322
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,200
Yeah. 
It's it should be that. 

323
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,400
There's no like the Reliance on 
us. 

324
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,500
This is very little to none. 
And at this is, this is sort of 

325
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:44,500
where we are evolving towards as
someone who kind of wants to 

326
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:50,000
automate a process. 
Do I pick one board provider to 

327
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,500
kind of do this for me? 
Or is it just a generalized pool

328
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,600
to which all of the blood 
providers? 

329
00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:02,900
Cannot all of the note Runners 
and can kind of tap into So, you

330
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:08,300
can think of gelato as a 
marketplace where the demand 

331
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:14,900
side is you or like, smart 
contract applications that need 

332
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:18,600
Automation Services and the 
supply side is the, gelato 

333
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:23,100
network of nodes and nodes can 
offer their services on the 

334
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:25,500
gelato Network. 
They have to run our client 

335
00:19:25,500 --> 00:19:29,700
implementation for that. 
They have to enter their task 

336
00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:31,900
execution via our smart contract
protocol. 

337
00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:36,200
Where in certain rules are 
enforced like payouts and so on,

338
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,200
but yeah, basically, you can 
think of gelato as a module that

339
00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:46,300
you can plug in and get access 
to a decentralized market of 

340
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:49,100
notes. 
So it's not just like some 

341
00:19:49,100 --> 00:19:52,400
people know that we have real 
apis and they sometimes mistake 

342
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:57,000
gelato for a relayer, it's not 
just a relay, it is a network of

343
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,600
relayer. 
So it is a module that you can 

344
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,500
plug into your flow and get 
Access to a decentralized 

345
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:06,200
network of three layers similar 
for smart contract automation. 

346
00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,300
So you don't have to pick one. 
You just picked gelato the 

347
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:14,100
network and all of the basically
what you get out of the box is a

348
00:20:14,100 --> 00:20:17,400
coordination mechanism that 
coordinates amongst a set of 

349
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:22,200
notes. 
Okay, so I don't have a personal

350
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,900
relationship with anyone, gelato
note provider, it's kind of like

351
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:29,800
the network as a whole does it 
give me any basically what 

352
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:36,000
Legacy business would call SAS 
or is this something that it how

353
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,000
do I know that if I use gelato 
for my decentralized back end 

354
00:20:41,100 --> 00:20:45,000
that it will perform? 
Yeah, that's a good question. 

355
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,500
So currently there's no such 
thing as a laser. 

356
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:51,800
So because I mean, we are sort 
of an open web 3style protocol 

357
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:58,100
that you can use currently. 
I suppose the SLA is the the Mev

358
00:20:58,100 --> 00:21:02,800
that note operators, get, right?
So the way the protocol is 

359
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,200
designed is that for successful 
execution of your transaction, 

360
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,900
you have to pay a fee to cover 
the transaction fee and then 

361
00:21:10,900 --> 00:21:14,300
some profits. 
So as long as You believe in 

362
00:21:14,300 --> 00:21:18,000
like you know, people like it or
not operators, wanting to make a

363
00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,600
profit in this network. 
You should be, you know, you can

364
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:24,400
basically sleep well and know 
that someone will go and execute

365
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:28,200
your transactions at all time. 
Given that the core premise of 

366
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:31,000
using gelato Network the 
services, there is that you have

367
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,600
to pay for it, right? 
That you have to pay the network

368
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,100
for performing the services. 
So the incentives are designed 

369
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:42,100
in such a way, that always, you 
know, similar to how public Mev 

370
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:44,300
works or to Howie theorem Works 
right? 

371
00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:47,400
Like why do people keep mining 
blocks because they get a block 

372
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,400
reward and similar in gelato why
will always will always be a 

373
00:21:51,408 --> 00:21:54,400
node executing your tasks while 
because they get a reward for 

374
00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,600
it. 
That's completely Fab. 

375
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:01,700
So, let's talk about the people 
who actually run the nodes. 

376
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,100
Do you have any idea how many 
different entities? 

377
00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,900
They're ours? 
Are there any are there? 

378
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:12,000
Any requirements? 
I need to meet in order to run a

379
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,600
note so you said like taking 
providers and so on? 

380
00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,800
That sounds like very involved. 
I mean there's also things you 

381
00:22:18,808 --> 00:22:24,300
can kind of do from a dep. 
No do so at home, can I run 

382
00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:28,200
gelato on my deck note And if 
not what are what, what's the 

383
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:34,900
barrier to entry? 
Well I think in theory yes in 

384
00:22:34,900 --> 00:22:39,400
theory you need an RPC so you 
need a connection to to the 

385
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,800
blockchain you dislike access to
phone up maybe and then you need

386
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:47,600
some server resources, right to 
run it and this is a like the 

387
00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:52,200
theoretical part of it. 
Now in practice of course gelato

388
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:56,100
the so like the client 
fermentation is fairly diverse 

389
00:22:56,100 --> 00:23:02,400
and actually complex spy now and
especially Since we started off 

390
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:07,100
as a, okay, we have this note up
known to permutation for smart 

391
00:23:07,100 --> 00:23:09,500
contract automation. 
But since then, it expanded 

392
00:23:09,500 --> 00:23:13,700
quite a bit and I think we have 
this very modular microservices 

393
00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,000
like architecture for for gelato
clients. 

394
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:19,800
So you run like running a 
running. 

395
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,100
A gelato note, here comes like 
different flavors and you can 

396
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:26,100
sort of like opt in to certain 
services that you would like to 

397
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:28,300
support. 
Because we have this automation 

398
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:31,200
service which is completely 
detached from um, the relay 

399
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,100
service which is completely 
detached from our new often 

400
00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:38,000
computation service. 
That is actually now coming out.

401
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:41,400
And so it's sort of like depends
on sort of what service you want

402
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:42,900
to run. 
If you want to run like the most

403
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:46,100
simple one which is basically 
our execution service, which is 

404
00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:50,600
just there to get a transaction 
and not even do the computation 

405
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,000
itself. 
Just get the transaction and 

406
00:23:52,008 --> 00:23:55,900
then get it mind for you. 
Then I would say a theory. 

407
00:23:55,900 --> 00:24:01,600
Yes, you can do it in practice 
because gelato is Or like live 

408
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,800
on the say, I think over 10 
different evm trains today, 

409
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,600
right? 
You need like stable are feces 

410
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,500
with most of them of course you 
could choose to only serve a 

411
00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:14,100
theorem for example in and do 
that and then like later this 

412
00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:19,200
year once we go live with our V 
0 .1 or staking you could be 

413
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,700
able to just like by some gel 
stake it and then participate in

414
00:24:22,700 --> 00:24:24,600
actually exit into some track 
transactions. 

415
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,200
But then you also have to 
guarantee some up time because 

416
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:30,900
if you're not up, when you're 
supposed to To a new if you're 

417
00:24:30,900 --> 00:24:33,700
not executing transactions, get 
that get allocated to. 

418
00:24:33,700 --> 00:24:37,300
You adds a certain time, then 
you will, basically no longer 

419
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:40,200
receive transactions for us for 
like, an interval as a 

420
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,000
punishment. 
So, there's like this sort of 

421
00:24:42,008 --> 00:24:47,800
mechanism in place which is we, 
we incentivize you to stake 

422
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,100
shell. 
The more you stake, the motors 

423
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:52,800
actions, you will be able to 
execute but also if you get 

424
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,100
these executions allocated and 
you don't execute them then you 

425
00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,100
will also not get the next one. 
So it's all. 

426
00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:02,800
Like a game of more steak and 
high up time. 

427
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,200
So as long as you can guarantee 
that, then yes, you will 

428
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,200
definitely be able to 
participate. 

429
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:14,900
You just kind of touched on the 
fact that I mean, most of these 

430
00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:16,400
so far. 
We've talked about automation, 

431
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,800
right? 
You're also kind of refer to 

432
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,600
relays just a bit ago. 
Can you kind of explain the 

433
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,300
distinction? 
Yeah, I can explain the 

434
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:32,700
difference here. 
So I used to call automation 

435
00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:36,400
deferred relaying, and because 
automation is also a form of 

436
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:41,200
relaying, if you will, it's this
idea that a message in 

437
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:46,000
operation, a transaction that a 
user wants to see, executed is 

438
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:50,400
relayed on that user's behalf. 
So the user Themselves don't 

439
00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:54,100
have to send this transaction, 
it's a relay or that puts it on 

440
00:25:54,100 --> 00:25:56,000
chain for them. 
And automation is quite 

441
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,700
interesting because there we 
couple this transaction, 

442
00:25:58,700 --> 00:26:02,300
relaying to a condition, being 
fulfilled in the future. 

443
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,200
And that could be a 
deterministic condition like the

444
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:07,700
passage of time, right? 
Like every day do something for 

445
00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:10,700
me or it could be a complex 
condition that is not 

446
00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:14,000
deterministic. 
Like, if the price, you know, 

447
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:17,100
reaches this, then execute for 
me, that might never happen 

448
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:21,600
actually, or it might So so 
automation, is this a sort of 

449
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:25,200
relaying on steroids if you 
will, where you couple the 

450
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,600
relaying of a transaction to a 
arbitrarily user-definable 

451
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,400
condition on chain and now also 
off chain. 

452
00:26:33,500 --> 00:26:35,000
Yeah. 
And then, relaying is really, 

453
00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:38,800
the simple primitive of just 
sending a transaction and 

454
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,600
usually, that is in the context 
of real time relaying and 

455
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,600
actually, to be honest, it's it 
sounds quite simple and so on. 

456
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,500
So that it's literally just 
saying, hey, put this 

457
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:50,800
transaction for me on chain but 
it on Looks like this much 

458
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,000
better. 
You ask for about three users 

459
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,900
were now. 
Technically, you can interact 

460
00:26:55,900 --> 00:26:59,100
with an application on a 
blockchain in real time without 

461
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:01,200
needing to have crypto funds in 
your wallet. 

462
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,800
For example, this is known as 
gas. 

463
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,700
This transactions or major 
transactions, where, where it's 

464
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:09,400
great for user onboarding. 
For example, you can you can use

465
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,200
a relay our and a user can then 
come visit your app for the 

466
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,900
first time and interact with 
your smart contract already 

467
00:27:16,900 --> 00:27:19,100
without needing to go to a 
centralized Exchange. 

468
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,200
First do kyc, and by crypto or 
something, to be able to send a 

469
00:27:22,208 --> 00:27:24,500
transaction. 
So, so, yeah, that's the, but 

470
00:27:24,500 --> 00:27:28,200
it's a bit more this real-time 
thing of like, hey, please do 

471
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,100
this for me. 
Now, relaying is also really 

472
00:27:30,100 --> 00:27:34,200
cool for not, just for, for 
users, but also for back-end 

473
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,400
Developers. 
For example, that are multi 

474
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,300
chain. 
So for example, connects has 

475
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:43,200
been using gelato relay for over
a year and basically, they're a 

476
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,000
cross Chain Bridge and every 
connects transaction is a gelato

477
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,800
real, a transaction. 
And for connects, As they call 

478
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,300
them, it's very beneficial to 
use our relay apis and relay 

479
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:57,800
Network because it makes it very
easy to get transactions sent 

480
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:01,400
reliably on multiple chains at 
the same time at scale. 

481
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,300
So the relaying is also for us 
at least specializing in the art

482
00:28:06,300 --> 00:28:08,500
of you know scalable 
transaction. 

483
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,600
Throughput on multiple chains 
and also decoupling payment like

484
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,500
for of native tokens for 
transactions. 

485
00:28:15,500 --> 00:28:16,800
Removing this need for 
developers. 

486
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,500
So developers can for example, 
nowadays with our one Balance 

487
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:22,900
system put used to see on 
polygon, a balance, a ten 

488
00:28:22,900 --> 00:28:27,800
thousand dollar used to see and 
then go and have transactions in

489
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:29,800
their applications. 
Be executed on multiple 

490
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,900
different chains while only 
paying from the single balanced 

491
00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:35,700
on one chain. 
So it makes the management the 

492
00:28:35,700 --> 00:28:38,300
transaction Management in the 
tens of thousands of 

493
00:28:38,300 --> 00:28:40,600
transactions per day extremely 
easy. 

494
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:42,700
When you use a relay I liked a 
lot. 

495
00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:46,100
Oh yeah. 
And here again like gelato is a 

496
00:28:46,100 --> 00:28:49,500
network of relay are so you can 
think of gelato like as a Entry 

497
00:28:49,500 --> 00:28:50,800
point for you, real a 
transaction. 

498
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,900
But in the background, there's 
multiple relay us that are 

499
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,700
competing to execute these 
transactions. 

500
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:03,000
Before we dive into use cases, a
bit deeper one final question on

501
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,200
the automation. 
So as a user of the automation, 

502
00:29:07,700 --> 00:29:10,500
I don't I only have to pay once 
it's executed, right? 

503
00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:13,900
So can I can I spam the system 
by kind of? 

504
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:18,900
I mean, basically, because the 
the nose they have to check the 

505
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:23,600
conditions at certain Cadence is
so if I had, just give them a 

506
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,800
lot of work in checking 
conditions that may Never be met

507
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,700
or that pop that I Engineers 
such that they're never met. 

508
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,000
Can I kind of can I bring down 
the network? 

509
00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:37,400
Yeah. 
So, so what you rightfully said 

510
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,600
is, what is automation, 
automation consists of two 

511
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,900
parts. 
It's the of chain computation 

512
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:47,000
that has to be done and then 
it's the transaction relaying 

513
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:52,100
that has to be done at the right
time, when the condition is 

514
00:29:52,100 --> 00:29:55,900
fulfilled, right? 
And you're very right, if you 

515
00:29:55,900 --> 00:29:59,900
created say like 100,000 tasks 
or a million tiles, they would 

516
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:04,100
never execute. 
You could bring down these sort 

517
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:07,200
of networks because Yeah, 
there's no there's a lot of cost

518
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:08,600
but there will never be a 
reward. 

519
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,900
That's why many of like these 
systems. 

520
00:30:11,900 --> 00:30:16,300
And I think this is sort of how 
we started our V1 designer that 

521
00:30:16,300 --> 00:30:19,400
they are better or Alpha and we 
want us out of gelato back then,

522
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,700
which is hey, we sort of put 
this blue, put a bounty up and 

523
00:30:22,700 --> 00:30:24,700
this bounty will then pay for 
the transaction. 

524
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,700
And then it's I think everyone 
started to like take it and copy

525
00:30:28,700 --> 00:30:30,300
it. 
And now it like it turned into 

526
00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:34,300
like the standard for spoke only
automation but it's actually not

527
00:30:34,300 --> 00:30:41,200
a scalable and It is actually 
quite flawed and that's why we 

528
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,300
realize also. 
And this is this is also what is

529
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:48,600
being rolled out right now. 
And with our newest release of 

530
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:54,000
our basically automate 2.0 or 
also like what three functions 

531
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,700
that we probably talked about in
a moment, we already redesigned 

532
00:30:58,700 --> 00:31:01,900
the system to such an extent 
that they are basically true 

533
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:05,100
payments you have to do and and 
all like that too. 

534
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,600
Fees that are being paid. 
And this is the one fee is for 

535
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,400
the actual computation and 
there, it's very like the 

536
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,200
analogy is very much basically 
looking at you Outdoors like a 

537
00:31:16,208 --> 00:31:21,400
decentralised AWS or Google 
Cloud which is a set of nodes. 

538
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,800
Not one particular data center 
somewhere but a network of like 

539
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,400
self also motivators somewhere 
in the world, the way your rent 

540
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,300
that computation for your decent
recertification and they run it 

541
00:31:34,300 --> 00:31:36,700
at the same the runner. 
All the time as long as you pay 

542
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:39,500
them, of course. 
And then the execute the 

543
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:41,000
transaction at the right time, 
right. 

544
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:42,900
In the execution of the 
transaction for us is actually 

545
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:46,900
done by the executor and the 
network empty empty in the 

546
00:31:46,900 --> 00:31:51,600
actual computation by another 
part of the of the network and 

547
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:54,900
there has to be like it's in 
order to make these systems 

548
00:31:54,900 --> 00:31:58,700
really sustainable and scalable 
and work for everything. 

549
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:01,500
You need this sort of 
distinction between paying for 

550
00:32:01,500 --> 00:32:05,800
computation and and so this is 
actually being rolled out Right 

551
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:11,000
now as we as we speak but the 
cool thing is you don't like you

552
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,600
don't need to have let users 
deal with that, right? 

553
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:18,000
Similar to how users don't pay 
for the users on Netflix. 

554
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,400
Don't pay for the computation of
AWS in the background, right? 

555
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,500
If you watch a movie there even 
though they use ATO idea of yes,

556
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,200
similarly, like users of, let's 
say pancakes for, for like a 

557
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:32,400
decks, they they are not using, 
they're not paying for the 

558
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:34,300
computation. 
That is done by gelato. 

559
00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:38,000
They are paying Cakes for black 
as 0.1 percent fee, on each 

560
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,700
limit order gets executed and 
they pay the computational fee. 

561
00:32:41,700 --> 00:32:45,300
For example, right? 
Let's kind of change course 

562
00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:47,400
here. 
Let's talk about the web three 

563
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,200
functions. 
First, before we talk about use 

564
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:54,800
cases, you are a kind of led 
into it so how what I mean. 

565
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,400
So now you kind of you have to 
pay twice. 

566
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,400
The payment is split between 
kind of submitting the 

567
00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:02,500
automation request and having it
fulfilled. 

568
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:07,800
Any other updates. 
Yeah, so what free functions is 

569
00:33:07,900 --> 00:33:12,400
is I think something we have 
been talking about for for quite

570
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:14,100
some times. 
I should also know white paper, 

571
00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:18,200
which is okay. 
Like smart contracts are like 

572
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:20,500
it's cool to automate smart 
contracts and there's a lot of 

573
00:33:20,500 --> 00:33:22,900
stuff you can do on chain. 
And we have seen an explosion of

574
00:33:22,900 --> 00:33:27,900
use cases, which we can talk 
about in a moment, but the real 

575
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:31,200
cool use cases. 
And the real efficiency you can 

576
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,200
gain is when you move the actual
computation from on. 

577
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:41,200
Strain and 22 off chain where 
you can do much more plus if you

578
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,500
move the data that can be used 
to automate, your smart 

579
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:50,000
contracts from only being based 
on on sharing data to then of 

580
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:52,000
chain data. 
And this is I think where it 

581
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:54,900
gets really interesting because 
now, basically what you can 

582
00:33:54,900 --> 00:33:58,300
think of about like what free 
functions is, it's like a 

583
00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,200
decentralized cloud function. 
So it's like a decentralized. 

584
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,300
A Darius Lambda where you as a 
developer you go. 

585
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:11,500
And say, hey, I need to query a 
sub graph for example, or like 

586
00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:17,400
some API that returns me a list 
of all the entities that that 

587
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,800
follow. 
It have a certain criteria and 

588
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,600
all the entities that have a 
certain Rarity for example, 

589
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:24,699
right? 
And what I want to do is I want 

590
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:30,699
to check all these entities, if 
they can be cuddled with. 

591
00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:32,500
But let's say there's a cuddle 
function on that, right? 

592
00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:35,900
And I have to check whether they
can be coddled and And I want to

593
00:34:35,908 --> 00:34:39,199
check it and I once one of them 
can be cuddled, I want to, of 

594
00:34:39,199 --> 00:34:41,699
course, make sure that they get 
cuddled at the right time, 

595
00:34:41,699 --> 00:34:44,400
right? 
This is like a fun use case and 

596
00:34:45,100 --> 00:34:47,600
obviously, doing this on Shane 
is impossible. 

597
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,500
You can't just query all the all
the entities that have, that 

598
00:34:51,500 --> 00:34:53,500
sort of property and that sort 
of Rarity. 

599
00:34:53,500 --> 00:34:56,400
It's like, first of all 
computational far too expensive 

600
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,600
and sector for you. 
You mostly impossible because 

601
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,400
there's no good way of doing it.
Sometimes certain like data's 

602
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,600
only, visit my events for 
example or let's say they You 

603
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,900
can start on chain like some 
information, you need to get 

604
00:35:07,900 --> 00:35:11,700
them from API, like ipss, maybe 
the metadata is an ipss, and you

605
00:35:11,700 --> 00:35:12,900
need to get it from there, 
right? 

606
00:35:12,900 --> 00:35:16,700
So and what you can do with 
three functions, basically, you 

607
00:35:16,707 --> 00:35:19,800
can write a type script file, 
like, rather than writing, the 

608
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,600
smart contract that encodes the 
logic, that determines what data

609
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:24,700
to use. 
And when to execute 

610
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:27,500
transactions, do now, right? 
The typescript file that you 

611
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:32,400
compile and deploy to ipss. 
Now, this lives on ipfs or other

612
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,600
data, availability layers that 
you can choose. 

613
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,300
Or we can, we'll probably also 
expand it to other locations 

614
00:35:38,300 --> 00:35:41,000
later and you get an ID from 
ipfs out of it. 

615
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,600
And then you go to 22 gelato and
you send a transaction on Shane.

616
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,300
It says gelato, hey, pointing to
this ipfs fire. 

617
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:53,300
Hey, gelato notes, please run 
for me this ipfs file that I 

618
00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:57,500
just deployed there, which 
determines the logic that I just

619
00:35:57,500 --> 00:36:01,400
described, and then execute 
transactions on my behalf to 

620
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:04,400
whatever chain. 
I want to while providing me 

621
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,200
with certain levels of Data 
Integrity that the data that is 

622
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,200
being generated is being used is
actually the same and the in the

623
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:13,700
right one, right? 
And yeah, this is this is what 

624
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,800
you can do. 
And you can think about it is in

625
00:36:16,900 --> 00:36:21,300
allowing smart contracts to 
access Cloud functions with like

626
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:23,500
a transaction. 
And this is super powerful for 

627
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,400
decentralized applications that 
don't want to like have one 

628
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:30,900
company that runs Google cloud 
or whatever and if they don't 

629
00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:33,100
pay their bills. 
So if they get censored or 

630
00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:35,200
whatever, then the whole 
application goes down then 

631
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:38,700
Relies on this which many 
applications do these days and 

632
00:36:38,700 --> 00:36:41,700
this is basically a way to make 
them like to centralized process

633
00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:45,400
from make them more Unstoppable.
That's super powerful. 

634
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,500
But what does that do to your 
trust is? 

635
00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,500
I'm shanaz like you know 
developer who uses this. 

636
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,500
That's a good question. 
And and this is also like the 

637
00:36:55,500 --> 00:36:57,900
evolution and why 
decentralization for gelato is 

638
00:36:57,900 --> 00:37:00,900
now becoming very important. 
And I eluded the beginning that 

639
00:37:00,900 --> 00:37:04,400
the beginning, it it was okay 
because trust was sort of on 

640
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,100
Shane right now. 
We're moving to a world where 

641
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,900
trust assumptions are higher 
because gelato nodes are a 

642
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:14,700
running computation for you that
you cannot verify don't chain 

643
00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,400
and you need to, you need to 
have some sort of trust in it. 

644
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,700
And so this is, we're staking 
and the decentralization of our 

645
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:26,400
Network. 
In hand and basically how we are

646
00:37:26,408 --> 00:37:30,500
envisioning is that you can 
Define. 

647
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:33,400
You have some sort of comparing 
this to other Oracle networks 

648
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,700
because it's some sort of like 
you can you can refer to as as 

649
00:37:36,700 --> 00:37:40,900
like partially like a hybrid 
Oracle Network and how we are 

650
00:37:41,100 --> 00:37:44,800
sort of trying to provide users 
with like like the flexibility 

651
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:47,000
of writing these things as much 
as much greater than what you're

652
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,400
used to in other networks. 
But what you can also do is, you

653
00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:54,100
will be able to Define what sort
of Integrity, you need for the 

654
00:37:54,100 --> 00:37:56,400
data. 
So for example, you can say, hey

655
00:37:56,400 --> 00:38:01,900
I want to have 50 or 60 percent 
of the gelato nodes that have 

656
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:04,800
staked their gel to sign off on 
that data. 

657
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,000
And only if they all signed off 
of that data, Then I then note 

658
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,000
can take that transaction and 
execute it, right? 

659
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:17,100
And so that way you have 60% of 
the gelato stake. 

660
00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:20,900
That does saying, hey, I 
verified that data and this is 

661
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:24,200
actually data should be used. 
And then of course, if they are 

662
00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:25,800
maliciously they will be 
session. 

663
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,600
Can be can be penalized for 
this, but you can also say, 

664
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,700
let's say my data is not that 
important, right? 

665
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:32,600
And I don't need that sort of 
Integrity. 

666
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,500
I don't need six percent of the 
network to run this computation.

667
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,700
I only need two nodes to run the
computation. 

668
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:40,900
And you could also Define some, 
some, some lower thresholds here

669
00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:42,500
for you. 
It depends on the use case, but 

670
00:38:42,500 --> 00:38:46,300
basically, now staking and 
having a valid data, set becomes

671
00:38:46,300 --> 00:38:50,600
very important. 
Okay, I think that solves a lot 

672
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,500
of the problem, but is there 
some sort of escalation 

673
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:56,200
mechanism? 
So if I'm not happy with the 

674
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:59,800
execution, there's some sort of 
arbitration protocol that I can 

675
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,600
run because otherwise, what you 
incentivizing is, basically, 

676
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:07,000
someone performs the 
computation, maybe maliciously, 

677
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,300
and other other nodes are not 
incentivized to rerun the 

678
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:13,400
computation but can just 
piggyback, right? 

679
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:19,300
So, basically if everyone agrees
and and it's it's It's wrong but

680
00:39:19,300 --> 00:39:21,500
no one's penalized then that's 
kind of. 

681
00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:26,600
Yeah so can I ask you late as a 
Dev who uses this Oracle? 

682
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:30,700
Yeah. 
So for that we have right now 

683
00:39:30,700 --> 00:39:34,600
the gelato doll, right? 
So we have our dowel right now 

684
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:39,400
where users can basically come 
and and say, hey, this is what 

685
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,200
was executed and this is 
actually I rerun the computation

686
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:48,100
myself and this is actually what
it supposed to return, which is 

687
00:39:48,100 --> 00:39:52,200
not always 100%. 
It's not easy to make this 

688
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,700
hundred percent objective 
because if you talk about 

689
00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:58,600
generalistic object computation 
then, Then it's not only a 

690
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,500
mistake. 
It's not a monistic, right? 

691
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,300
I think for many use cases, it 
actually is, especially if you 

692
00:40:04,300 --> 00:40:11,300
talk about, like sub graph data,
or data from other chains, there

693
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:15,700
it is deterministic. 
But if you think about saap at 

694
00:40:15,700 --> 00:40:18,800
Price data and it depends on 
which milliseconds or note, 

695
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,200
queried your price right there. 
You have to like have some sort 

696
00:40:22,200 --> 00:40:27,100
of defined aggregation and sort 
of concert. 

697
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,800
Jason of the data process 
defined and this is what we 

698
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:32,100
meant with this. 
Hey you can Define your own 

699
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:34,900
thresholds. 
Let's say you can say a I want 

700
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,600
these sort of nodes to run this.
And they have to agree that this

701
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:43,500
is in a certain range or this is
roughly the same in these 

702
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:45,900
boundaries. 
And if it's the case, then I'm 

703
00:40:45,900 --> 00:40:48,600
cool with that, right? 
And then they have to sign it 

704
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:49,900
off and send the transaction, 
right? 

705
00:40:49,900 --> 00:40:54,000
And if you look back here and 
you can say head was completely 

706
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:56,200
different, then you can 
basically start this escalation 

707
00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,000
process. 
Which is, hey, I want to 

708
00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,600
challenge this. 
And then there is basically the 

709
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,100
Dow doing his job and, and 
validating it, and making sure. 

710
00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:09,400
But right now, like there is 
stay. 

711
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,000
There's no perfect way of sort 
of doing it for now, which is 

712
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,300
always deterministic objective 
and all subjectivity involved at

713
00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:17,600
all. 
So we are taking this sort of 

714
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,200
pragmatic approach to this. 
No, it's super exciting. 

715
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:25,700
So when it is, when it's is 
going to be rolled out, Well, 

716
00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:29,600
actually the beta starts today. 
So we were rolling out the word 

717
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,600
three functions beta. 
Today we're actually also roller

718
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:37,600
so yesterday but today it's 
going love life but it is first 

719
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:41,600
of all in like a closed beta. 
So we have roundabouts like 30 

720
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,200
projects, 30 projects signed up 
for it now that will be 

721
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:49,600
immediately using it and a lot 
of really, really cool and 

722
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,100
amazing use case that I'm super 
excited for Mike nft, Perpetual 

723
00:41:53,100 --> 00:41:57,000
stew too. 
To end of T, lending to 

724
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:01,700
decentralize market-making to 
like a lot of different things. 

725
00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:05,400
On the use case, array is really
huge and the beta is there 

726
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,000
because yeah, there's a lot of 
stake here, right? 

727
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,400
And data Integrity is important 
and so we are slowly only 

728
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:17,800
onboarding new and your users to
the system to make sure we can 

729
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,500
scale this up secure this 
efficiently and make it work 

730
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,000
smoothly for everyone. 
So yeah that's why it will 

731
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,500
probably only still be in a 
closed beta for at least a 

732
00:42:27,508 --> 00:42:31,500
couple of months. 
Who is this is a super nice 

733
00:42:31,500 --> 00:42:35,000
segue to use cases. 
So, we've talked about kind of 

734
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,400
like the, the nuts and bolts for
the past, 40 minutes. 

735
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:44,400
So kind of hit me with what what
has been built with it because 

736
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,800
it's been massively used. 
I mean, there's millions of 

737
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:52,100
transactions that have been that
have been sent using gelato. 

738
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:55,900
So what are the use cases? 
And what networks are they on? 

739
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,800
And what are what are you 
particularly proud of? 

740
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,600
Yeah, maybe I can give a little 
history, I guess of use cases. 

741
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,400
And really, what we discovered, 
four years ago, was that 

742
00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:12,400
etherium and other EVMS. 
Need this generalistic 

743
00:43:13,300 --> 00:43:17,800
automation, or real a protocol 
that lives outside of the client

744
00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:19,700
implementation of the 
blockchain. 

745
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,400
And and really this means that 
anything can be built on top of 

746
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,300
this. 
And we've seen this really 

747
00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:29,700
happening, like they have been 
use cases that we didn't force. 

748
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,100
See. 
And there were, I mean, it all 

749
00:43:32,100 --> 00:43:35,300
started with defy because we 
started to large 1, 2019 and 

750
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:40,000
2019 to 2021, I guess there was 
pretty much everything was defy,

751
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,500
right? 
And then eventually nfc's 

752
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:46,700
happens, but but it started with
defy and and there, I mean, the,

753
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:49,900
the first use case actually 
we're built by in step by the 

754
00:43:49,900 --> 00:43:52,000
incident team. 
So, there are also legendary 

755
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:56,400
members of the gelato Club if 
you will, and they built 

756
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:59,700
together with us some extremely 
complex use cases. 

757
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:03,900
Automated depth refinancing. 
So these were things like I 

758
00:44:03,900 --> 00:44:09,400
think automatically, for 
example, automatically moving 

759
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,000
your alpha position to compound 
if compound has better apis or 

760
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,400
something like this. 
I think this was the number one 

761
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,000
use case for incident for a 
whole wide and I know this is 

762
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:22,000
one of the things that I used in
to stood up for it was just a 

763
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,100
single click and basically it 
just switched everything over it

764
00:44:25,100 --> 00:44:27,200
was super neat. 
Exactly. 

765
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,000
Yeah and they use gelato to 
automate this This. 

766
00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:34,000
And yeah, it was, it was a very 
heavy on the device side was 

767
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,100
using flash Lawns and this and 
that. 

768
00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:40,300
And all of these things were 
checked, basically, like all of 

769
00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:42,200
these things by gelato 
conditions, like what flash 

770
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:46,600
learn to use whether from dydx 
or from other or whatnot, and 

771
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:48,500
they are. 
So some very heavy, D5 things 

772
00:44:48,500 --> 00:44:51,800
were built first. 
And then actually, one of the 

773
00:44:51,808 --> 00:44:55,800
first big use cases that we 
always saw where limit orders of

774
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,100
course for am. 
So, anybody trading on Senators 

775
00:44:59,100 --> 00:45:01,300
exchanges? 
We place a limit order when they

776
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:04,700
bite want to buy or sell 
something right but on a mems 

777
00:45:04,700 --> 00:45:07,500
like you nice pop or Kaiba back,
then even you didn't have this 

778
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:10,500
enabled. 
So with gelato, we build a limit

779
00:45:10,500 --> 00:45:14,000
order, SDK, that was using a 
smart contract, limit order 

780
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:17,400
protocol. 
And yeah, basically this is how 

781
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:22,300
big a M&M's, like spooky swap on
Phantom and Quick Stop on 

782
00:45:22,300 --> 00:45:25,500
polygon. 
And pancake swap on be chained 

783
00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:28,900
or basically, we're able to 
offer limit orders on their 

784
00:45:28,900 --> 00:45:32,200
exchange to Ooh, users, which is
in the background using gelato 

785
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,800
Automation. 
And, and then from there, I 

786
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:40,400
mean, eventually once we build 
our automation, UI and interface

787
00:45:40,500 --> 00:45:44,400
slot to automate previously 
cultural tops and we basically 

788
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,200
then gave developers a sort of 
nice way of you know, self 

789
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:53,000
servicing them and themselves 
before I was sort of us, you 

790
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:55,600
know, the tech was ready, like 
it could be used, but there was 

791
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,800
a lot of work you as a developer
needed to do into. 

792
00:45:57,900 --> 00:45:59,700
And we also didn't have that 
much documentation. 

793
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:03,100
Technically, you could have used
a lot with about anything but, 

794
00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:05,700
you know, you know how it is. 
You have to make developers 

795
00:46:05,700 --> 00:46:08,200
lives easier for them to 
actually use it. 

796
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,500
So, we built this. 
Super nice UI product, where you

797
00:46:11,500 --> 00:46:13,900
can come up, touch, allow to the
network. 

798
00:46:13,900 --> 00:46:17,500
And you can basically start 
automating your smart contracts 

799
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,100
with the click of a mouse 
button, basically, and that 

800
00:46:20,100 --> 00:46:23,500
really, I mean, that sort of 
opened the floodgates to use 

801
00:46:23,500 --> 00:46:24,800
cases. 
There were so many things 

802
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,000
launching without us, even 
knowing that, suddenly we're 

803
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:31,600
using the network. 
I remember algorithmic stable 

804
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:36,900
coins using it for for replacing
many other things. 

805
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:38,900
I'm sure whom I will give some 
more colors soon. 

806
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:44,800
And then for relaying, for 
relaying initially, our approach

807
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,000
ruling was a bit more back and 
focused. 

808
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:52,600
So, really focusing on how can 
we provide back and projects? 

809
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:54,900
Such as, for example, connects 
the cross-trained messaging 

810
00:46:54,900 --> 00:46:59,400
protocol, they're using it with 
a way to get transactions. 

811
00:46:59,900 --> 00:47:02,500
Find on multiple chains with 
high throughput. 

812
00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:05,200
Like really at scale because 
that's actually quite hard 

813
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,200
building, your own relay or sort
of to send a couple of 

814
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,700
transactions. 
Hundreds of transactions, every 

815
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:16,200
day is not that hard, but going 
from there to forty thousand 

816
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:17,900
transactions. 
A hundred thousand transactions 

817
00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:19,200
per day on many different 
networks. 

818
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:22,200
Reliably, that's then really 
hard and that's production 

819
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,100
software. 
So, we sort of started with that

820
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:27,400
and then has been successfully 
used by connects for over a year

821
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:33,100
without any problems. 
And and and recently in the last

822
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:36,900
half year or so we also focus a 
bit more on the UI side of 

823
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:40,300
things for relaying. 
So gases, transactions, account 

824
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:43,000
abstraction. 
All these things making it easy 

825
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:47,900
to unboard web to use us and not
so much the focus on having. 

826
00:47:47,900 --> 00:47:49,900
I don't know a throughput of 
hundred thousand transaction per

827
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:51,000
day for your back-end 
application. 

828
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,000
But rather having these cool 
user experiences where as a 

829
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,500
user, you can interact with 
smart contracts without the need

830
00:47:56,500 --> 00:47:58,400
of having crypto in your wallet 
and so on. 

831
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:03,600
So, So there there will be a 
think I have some exciting news 

832
00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:07,900
cases launching soon. 
Yeah, for example, and we're 

833
00:48:07,900 --> 00:48:11,300
talking to a betting site or 
noses chain who want to make it 

834
00:48:11,300 --> 00:48:14,400
so that users first time, users 
prefer them to users can come 

835
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,000
and place their bet without 
needing to to have crypto in the

836
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,500
world for example. 
Super cool him? 

837
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:26,400
I do you want to add to the 
landscape of projects building 

838
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:30,900
on gelato because if, if not, 
I'd like to talk about account 

839
00:48:30,900 --> 00:48:36,900
abstraction but Louis kind of 
insinuated that you would that 

840
00:48:36,900 --> 00:48:38,700
you would want to add some 
color. 

841
00:48:38,700 --> 00:48:41,200
And as we heard earlier, your 
kind of, basically the same 

842
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:44,000
person, so I assume, Louis knows
what you want. 

843
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:46,500
I think Louise already covered a
lot. 

844
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:51,800
I think maybe to a God, there's 
like we are things that I 

845
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,000
personally didn't anticipate all
these nft use case because we 

846
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,300
are both from like to defy 
world. 

847
00:48:56,300 --> 00:48:59,800
But about suddenly we seem like 
tens of thousands or hundred 

848
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,800
thousand transactions from like 
nft rentals. 

849
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:05,100
For example, I don't know, like 
I didn't know people rent. 

850
00:49:05,100 --> 00:49:08,700
So many and of teas, but they're
like these entire NFC rental 

851
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:11,300
market places. 
Now, where you can get an NF T, 

852
00:49:11,300 --> 00:49:14,100
you can literally get the energy
into your wallet, but say like a

853
00:49:14,107 --> 00:49:17,600
board a for example, and then 
you can do something and then 

854
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:19,700
gelato will out of like there's 
a fine. 

855
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:22,900
In the transfer from function. 
There's like a condition which 

856
00:49:22,900 --> 00:49:26,700
is gelato can get this nft out 
of your wallet in seven days. 

857
00:49:26,700 --> 00:49:29,500
Again will draw it back to the 
original owner and this is like 

858
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:31,500
happening. 
So literally smart contracts are

859
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,600
all of the entities are given to
you in the next drawn, back it, 

860
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:38,400
but gelato and this is happening
every day, like tens of 

861
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:42,700
thousands of times on polygon 
and B&B chain vnd and and stuff 

862
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:45,300
like that. 
So these are things that Beyond 

863
00:49:45,300 --> 00:49:48,900
like makeout are using it for 
like their collateral management

864
00:49:48,900 --> 00:49:53,100
and Like stuff like optimism for
topping up sequence or nose and 

865
00:49:53,100 --> 00:49:55,200
stuff like that which are use 
cases. 

866
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:59,400
We have seen very early on. 
These are like ones that did 

867
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:00,800
read. 
That really surprised. 

868
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:03,800
Me personally seeing rent a 
monkey. 

869
00:50:03,900 --> 00:50:07,700
Yeah, I think, I think what both
film and I were quite happy and 

870
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:14,500
proud of is that we really saw 
the, you know, one, one guy team

871
00:50:14,500 --> 00:50:18,000
developer using this up to, you 
know, the blue-chip defy 

872
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:24,800
projects, like other Make our 
optimism and in San source of 

873
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,100
really, it's for everyone who is
so it kind of traction. 

874
00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:32,700
So, I think a lot of our 
listeners will kind of know this

875
00:50:32,700 --> 00:50:37,500
in the context of VIP 4337, this
is actually something that we're

876
00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:41,500
working on together. 
So, not we as epicenter, but me 

877
00:50:41,500 --> 00:50:45,000
has no surface. 
And this is kind of finding an 

878
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,700
implementation for account of 
traction without protocol level.

879
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,200
Changes just using real Ayers. 
It's incredibly cool use cases 

880
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,800
and actually can see. 
So we are committed to kind of 

881
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:58,100
rolling this out or no 
sustained. 

882
00:50:58,100 --> 00:51:05,000
And I would kind of assume that 
this this goes well and kind of 

883
00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,300
is taken over by other chains as
well. 

884
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:09,300
So can you explain to me how it 
works? 

885
00:51:10,700 --> 00:51:17,300
Yeah, so I can instruction 
really is the concept of trying 

886
00:51:17,300 --> 00:51:22,300
to move away from having users 
interact with smart contracts 

887
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:26,200
with their externally, on the 
count and rather promoting that 

888
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:30,400
they are interacting with the 
smart contract wallet. 

889
00:51:30,400 --> 00:51:33,900
Based as my contract based 
account and that these are the 

890
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:35,500
two accounts that are available 
on aetherium. 

891
00:51:35,500 --> 00:51:39,500
One is created by your private 
key, and then the other one you 

892
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:44,200
will have to Deploy yourself. 
Let's say the Naza saves is 

893
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,400
probably the most prominent 
example of a smart contract 

894
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,700
wallet. 
And the cool thing about it's my

895
00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:53,300
contract while it is, I like to 
compare them as one is like an 

896
00:51:53,300 --> 00:51:57,000
old-school Dalek where you have 
like this wooden a key that you 

897
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,900
get in and then you can scan to 
kind of like access we're free 

898
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:03,700
and then the other ones like 
this digital door lock, if we 

899
00:52:03,700 --> 00:52:07,100
have an office here where you 
can program people to just like 

900
00:52:07,100 --> 00:52:10,300
come in for like a day or so or 
you need multiple people. 

901
00:52:10,400 --> 00:52:13,300
All to sign off to enter the 
building for example, right? 

902
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:15,000
And so it's a programmable 
wallet. 

903
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:17,300
It's my contract was a 
programmable what'd where you 

904
00:52:17,300 --> 00:52:20,600
can encode Advanced 
functionalities, for example, 

905
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,200
that you can make transactions 
be fully gasless on behalf of 

906
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:29,700
users without having to change 
any smart country code anymore. 

907
00:52:29,700 --> 00:52:34,400
And this just greatly improves. 
The ux of users that are, 

908
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:36,400
especially better getting on 
board two or three. 

909
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:42,800
And yeah, that is this whole 
array of like And feature sets 

910
00:52:42,800 --> 00:52:45,100
that you want, for example, 
gases transactions, account 

911
00:52:45,100 --> 00:52:48,800
recovery but also in Walnut 
automation, which I think I'm 

912
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:51,200
sort of most bullish on 
construction. 

913
00:52:52,300 --> 00:52:56,700
And Yeah, we actually sort of 
experiment and been building a 

914
00:52:56,700 --> 00:52:59,400
construction stuff. 
Since the very beginning gelato 

915
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,800
was actually started off as the 
module for the nose has saved. 

916
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,500
This was our first 
implementation of gelato and it 

917
00:53:06,500 --> 00:53:09,000
was it was virtually. 
Hey you have your smart contract

918
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,000
wallet and now you have like I 
can add on to the smart contract

919
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,000
while to make it really, really 
smart and it could, it can 

920
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,000
automate, it can execute things 
on your behalf when you're not 

921
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,200
there. 
This is for me like a smart 

922
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,900
wallet, right? 
And we actually deployed knows 

923
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:27,000
the Cézanne our at first, your 
eyes back then and had like had 

924
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,200
users interact with our 
application, using their noses. 

925
00:53:29,200 --> 00:53:32,700
Safe as a proxy, which is 
exactly what account abstraction

926
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:39,600
wants to achieve and sort of 
enshrine into the protocol a bit

927
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:42,600
further. 
I am with this ESU 437, for 

928
00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:47,600
example, which basically allows 
provides people like a public 

929
00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:52,100
entry point who dented and say, 
Hey I want to interact with a 

930
00:53:52,100 --> 00:53:56,100
certain application and they can
Define how they wanted to act 

931
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:57,600
how they want to pay for it, for
example. 

932
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:00,800
And then there's this public 
entry point where you can't do 

933
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,000
so. 
So at this is account 

934
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:04,300
abstraction and I should, but 
there it's a very broad topic. 

935
00:54:04,300 --> 00:54:06,700
So there's a lot of different 
parts you can go into if you 

936
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:08,000
want. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

937
00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:11,900
It's a, it's a super big topic 
and I think I think in terms of 

938
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,000
kind of making web three usable 
for Nummies, this is really 

939
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,100
something that kind of we need 
to hit. 

940
00:54:19,300 --> 00:54:21,900
Because I mean, the current 
onboarding experience you need 

941
00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:26,600
to be able to onboard users with
an email or similar, even if 

942
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:29,000
that means lower, trust 
assumption. 

943
00:54:29,100 --> 00:54:32,500
You just have to be able to 
switch it out later. 

944
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,600
The users will be able to switch
it out later. 

945
00:54:34,800 --> 00:54:37,600
But, you know, this experience 
where kind of you, you download 

946
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,400
meta mask for someone and then, 
then you say I'm not. 

947
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:42,400
By the look. 
But you have to write down these

948
00:54:42,400 --> 00:54:44,800
12 words and you can never lose 
them. 

949
00:54:44,900 --> 00:54:48,500
So replicate them, you know, in 
many places but you can also 

950
00:54:48,500 --> 00:54:52,200
never show them to anyone. 
So replicate them never. 

951
00:54:52,900 --> 00:54:56,200
It's just it's a lot of mixed 
messages and people don't get 

952
00:54:56,200 --> 00:54:57,900
it. 
It's just, this is not how we're

953
00:54:57,900 --> 00:55:00,500
going on board. 
Like the next hundred million 

954
00:55:00,500 --> 00:55:04,200
people are. 
So right and until EIP 4337 

955
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:09,500
actually comes, if it comes, I 
think it'll be an uphill battle 

956
00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:13,000
in terms of Pretty complex. 
And you know, backwards 

957
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,500
compatibility and such what 
other things are you excited 

958
00:55:16,500 --> 00:55:20,100
for? 
So I mean, with the web three 

959
00:55:20,100 --> 00:55:26,100
functions, you kind of you 
radically enlarge the 

960
00:55:26,100 --> 00:55:29,200
possibility space of what can be
built using gelato. 

961
00:55:29,500 --> 00:55:33,300
So what are the cool things? 
You kind of you foresee, and 

962
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:37,900
what are you excited for? 
Yeah, maybe I could start at Lee

963
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:40,900
Lewis, feel free to add stuff 
and so I think maybe tying it 

964
00:55:40,900 --> 00:55:46,600
back to the account abstraction 
for me, this all sort of for me 

965
00:55:46,600 --> 00:55:50,700
I was gelato especially I see 
all these things converging at 

966
00:55:50,700 --> 00:55:57,100
some point. 
So right now to provide users 

967
00:55:57,100 --> 00:56:02,500
with in sort of these Advanced 
automated services or use cases,

968
00:56:02,500 --> 00:56:06,800
let's say a limit order on 
pancakes for or let's say Learn 

969
00:56:07,500 --> 00:56:10,300
with like, hey, we always give 
you the best rate, we're 

970
00:56:10,300 --> 00:56:14,800
whatever or other you, other use
cases, what you always have to 

971
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,300
do, is, you had to build entire 
smart contract, protocols, which

972
00:56:19,300 --> 00:56:24,300
logic is solely based to 
provide, this sort of 

973
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,900
automation, for users in a way 
where they can say, they just 

974
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:31,600
have to deposit their assets 
into like this pool. 

975
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,200
And then from this pool, a limit
order gets executed, or from 

976
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:40,200
this pool, The the it will be 
invested in the best yield 

977
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:44,300
generating protocol or whatnot. 
And mostly the reason why we 

978
00:56:44,300 --> 00:56:51,100
have this is because you can't 
automate transactions from the 

979
00:56:51,100 --> 00:56:52,800
users. 
What you're a wanted, right? 

980
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:57,500
So other than getting their 
private key then yeah. 

981
00:56:57,900 --> 00:56:59,300
You basically on their money, 
right? 

982
00:56:59,300 --> 00:57:07,700
So if we can as a community push
this Concept of a construction 

983
00:57:07,700 --> 00:57:11,900
and smart contract wallet. 
Then, what we gain is, basically

984
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:16,800
what I call in wallet 
automation, which is you don't 

985
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:19,200
need to build all these 
protocols anymore. 

986
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:25,600
You can just tie your money or 
your funds in your wallet to 

987
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:29,200
arbitrary off, chain data 
computation or on Shane 

988
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,000
verifiable data and computation,
which allow the for example, and

989
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,900
can start getting the best yield
everywhere. 

990
00:57:36,100 --> 00:57:38,500
Straight out of your wallet, you
don't have to pull them 

991
00:57:38,500 --> 00:57:39,800
anywhere. 
You don't have to send them 

992
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:42,000
anywhere first just straight 
over your water. 

993
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,800
De Deus things think about like 
games for example, right? 

994
00:57:46,300 --> 00:57:51,800
You can build like you can play 
strategy games where you run a 

995
00:57:51,808 --> 00:57:56,500
script that interacts with your 
account on your behalf or with 

996
00:57:56,500 --> 00:57:59,400
other people's accounts on their
behalf and like direct their 

997
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,900
actions and like a Pokemon 
world. 

998
00:58:01,900 --> 00:58:05,900
Like, for me, I see NPC's 
non-player characters. 

999
00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:10,200
All of them will be like a smart
contract which will attack you 

1000
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:11,700
like. 
So your Pokemon game, you walk 

1001
00:58:11,700 --> 00:58:13,500
through the grass and suddenly 
Pokémon attacks. 

1002
00:58:13,500 --> 00:58:16,300
You, it is like a text function 
there and then gelada cents a 

1003
00:58:16,308 --> 00:58:18,500
transaction. 
The Pokemon comes the text, you 

1004
00:58:18,500 --> 00:58:20,500
and then is like a battle and 
you fight the Pokemon. 

1005
00:58:20,500 --> 00:58:23,500
Even if you might not be at the 
machine at the time, you define 

1006
00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:26,900
the strategy beforehand and then
you can alter it over time. 

1007
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:32,200
So I think they're with the 
construction plus automation, 

1008
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,800
especially leveraging data from 
off chain. 

1009
00:58:35,100 --> 00:58:39,700
I think you just Full like you 
10x or 100x, the possibilities 

1010
00:58:39,700 --> 00:58:44,200
that can be built for with free 
and it all ties a very nicely 

1011
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,300
together. 
So I'm super excited about like 

1012
00:58:47,300 --> 00:58:50,100
how this and I already see a 
couple of use cases and projects

1013
00:58:50,100 --> 00:58:51,900
building. 
First things like brahmas 

1014
00:58:51,900 --> 00:58:55,300
building basically like a urine 
but based on those who say it's 

1015
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:58,600
using gelato in the background. 
So I think I'm super excited 

1016
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,400
about these type of use cases. 
And they tie everything very 

1017
00:59:01,400 --> 00:59:06,900
nicely together. 
Yeah, one of the big things that

1018
00:59:06,900 --> 00:59:13,900
I am excited about is basically 
a whole new web, three user 

1019
00:59:13,900 --> 00:59:17,200
experience. 
We all were three natives here. 

1020
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,900
I know I've known you for four 
years of video dica. 

1021
00:59:20,900 --> 00:59:24,500
So you were definitely very 
early and probably you are used 

1022
00:59:24,500 --> 00:59:26,900
to using M masking sound, but 
but you also mentioned here that

1023
00:59:26,900 --> 00:59:29,700
it's still very cranky. 
When onboarding new users, it's 

1024
00:59:29,700 --> 00:59:33,100
still always like, every time I 
on board, a friend, or family 

1025
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:36,300
member it I realize how bad it 
is and that it will never be 

1026
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:38,200
mainstream because it's way too 
complex. 

1027
00:59:38,700 --> 00:59:43,700
And one thing that we have to 
hand to web to is that the user 

1028
00:59:43,700 --> 00:59:46,400
experience is, there are really 
great, A lot of times. 

1029
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:52,100
And and yeah, I think we have to
achieve parity with that and web

1030
00:59:52,100 --> 00:59:56,500
3. 
And if not even surpass it and 

1031
00:59:56,800 --> 01:00:01,100
web three, we have created these
amazing back-end technologies 

1032
01:00:01,700 --> 01:00:04,100
that make developer experiences.
Great, right. 

1033
01:00:04,100 --> 01:00:07,000
That you can build your own 
bank, you can build whatever 

1034
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:08,900
like with a bunch of lines of 
code. 

1035
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:12,500
But on the front end on the UI 
level on the mobile app level, 

1036
01:00:12,500 --> 01:00:19,300
it still is very immature. 
It scares people off its clunky,

1037
01:00:19,300 --> 01:00:21,000
it's kind of horrible, to be 
honest. 

1038
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:25,200
So what I'm what I'm really 
hoping for now that as we move 

1039
01:00:25,200 --> 01:00:28,600
up, the stack a bit, and we sort
of provide Technologies like, 

1040
01:00:28,600 --> 01:00:31,500
the relay apis that we have 
account abstraction smart 

1041
01:00:31,500 --> 01:00:33,500
contract, wallets to front end 
developer. 

1042
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:38,400
Is that we finally have a better
front end to a 3 as well. 

1043
01:00:38,400 --> 01:00:41,800
Not just a good back-end and and
hear what I'm looking out for. 

1044
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:46,500
Hopefully next Bull, Run is that
we don't have these things where

1045
01:00:46,500 --> 01:00:49,100
you definitely know that this is
a web three side where you log 

1046
01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:52,100
in, with me time, ask you 
connect, to some RPC, everything

1047
01:00:52,100 --> 01:00:54,000
is slow. 
You can't do anything because 

1048
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:56,200
you don't have Kryptonian 
wallet, you have to go visit 

1049
01:00:56,200 --> 01:01:00,700
three other places now to get 
crypto to do to configure your 

1050
01:01:00,700 --> 01:01:03,200
wallet, to write something on 
paper. 

1051
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:05,100
And And stored in a save or 
something, right? 

1052
01:01:05,100 --> 01:01:08,800
Like all of this should be gone 
and hopefully we can build web 

1053
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:11,700
three applications, where users 
don't even know that they're 

1054
01:01:11,700 --> 01:01:14,700
interacting with with three only
the developers of that site and 

1055
01:01:14,700 --> 01:01:17,600
all because they're using the 
power of what P Technologies to 

1056
01:01:17,600 --> 01:01:21,000
build, amazing back ends to 
build amazing applications 

1057
01:01:21,500 --> 01:01:23,100
without the need of, I don't 
know. 

1058
01:01:23,100 --> 01:01:27,600
Web to Legacy licensing. 
So, so, so yeah. 

1059
01:01:27,600 --> 01:01:30,500
Really like, that's what I'm 
really looking forward to an end

1060
01:01:30,500 --> 01:01:33,300
here. 
Our our basically stake in this 

1061
01:01:33,300 --> 01:01:35,400
game. 
Is our set of real apis. 

1062
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,700
You can certainly use automation
as well to provide very nice 

1063
01:01:38,700 --> 01:01:41,200
user experiences but especially 
with relaying and account 

1064
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:44,600
abstraction. 
You can build amazing new user 

1065
01:01:44,600 --> 01:01:49,600
experiences where I hope it will
simply be like, okay, we forget 

1066
01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,600
completely about connecting 
meet, I'm asking what? 

1067
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:54,100
So, what so ever, like, all of 
this will be gone, it will just 

1068
01:01:54,100 --> 01:01:56,800
be a nice website and you go to 
clicking buttons again, you 

1069
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,000
needed to see data and so on and
you don't have to have this 

1070
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,700
extension be connected. 
And so on at all times, like it 

1071
01:02:02,700 --> 01:02:06,800
should be Very smooth sort of 
instant feedback as you use a 

1072
01:02:06,800 --> 01:02:09,500
website to interact with crypto.
That's really what I'm looking 

1073
01:02:09,500 --> 01:02:13,600
forward to you too. 
Having left three with strictly 

1074
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:16,800
better user experience than web 
to this is. 

1075
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:22,700
Those are goals. 
Fantastic, I have one last 

1076
01:02:22,700 --> 01:02:26,600
question and maybe it's the most
important question that I 

1077
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:30,600
considered leading with. 
What's your favorite flavor of 

1078
01:02:30,600 --> 01:02:32,900
ice cream? 
You don't, you don't get to be 

1079
01:02:32,900 --> 01:02:35,400
called July. 
Otto without, you know, having a

1080
01:02:35,400 --> 01:02:40,200
good answer to that. 
And I do look forward to the to 

1081
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:44,100
the next Defcon and the the 
gelato booth there again. 

1082
01:02:44,100 --> 01:02:46,900
Oh yeah. 
The most the favorite Booth of 

1083
01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:49,900
our def con attendees where you 
get gelato. 

1084
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:55,100
We literally saw people going 
there eight times in a single 

1085
01:02:55,100 --> 01:03:01,000
day guy, who's get you skipped 
lunch and everything was crazy. 

1086
01:03:01,300 --> 01:03:07,900
Costed was also I think it vegan
or maybe maybe just vegetarian 

1087
01:03:07,900 --> 01:03:10,800
but was very healthy. 
So basically this was also one 

1088
01:03:10,800 --> 01:03:14,000
of the main complaints about def
con this year that the food was 

1089
01:03:14,000 --> 01:03:15,500
too healthy, but you were there,
too. 

1090
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:18,900
You were there to, you know, to 
to rescue the staff. 

1091
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:20,300
Attend saviors. 
Yeah. 

1092
01:03:20,500 --> 01:03:25,300
Yeah, but having having a free 
ice cream truck is definitely a 

1093
01:03:25,308 --> 01:03:31,000
dose Vector, that's for sure. 
So was we've got a grease there.

1094
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,000
So for fun, for me, if for me 
impressive, favorite flavors 

1095
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,600
still is the command and this is
actually how I what I ordered 

1096
01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:43,400
when I was a child when I spend 
all my pocket money on gelato 

1097
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:47,700
and I went to destroy the place 
close by and I ordered eight 

1098
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:52,700
Scoops and it looks It what I 
wanted a scoops and I did it on 

1099
01:03:52,700 --> 01:03:55,000
my career. 
I'd like a biweekly basis, most 

1100
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:59,300
likely. 
And there were lemon chocolate 

1101
01:03:59,300 --> 01:04:00,800
chili and lemon chocolate 
cherry. 

1102
01:04:00,800 --> 01:04:05,200
So so the, so I like lemon and 
chocolate and it specifically 

1103
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:09,000
just a hinge of chili and some 
sweetness with the cherry. 

1104
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:13,400
And then you get a, you have 
opinions opinions and isn't 

1105
01:04:13,400 --> 01:04:14,500
Louis. 
What about you? 

1106
01:04:15,600 --> 01:04:17,300
Yeah, I think, for me, it's 
pistachio. 

1107
01:04:17,300 --> 01:04:22,300
And by the way, I have to plug 
the amazing ice cream shop that 

1108
01:04:22,300 --> 01:04:24,200
is next to fall, not in Berlin. 
Do I? 

1109
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:28,200
Yes, it's amazing. 
This is Hylian ice cream there. 

1110
01:04:28,600 --> 01:04:30,000
So. 
Yeah. 

1111
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:34,000
It was the perfect place to 
start gelato in 2019 and have 

1112
01:04:34,000 --> 01:04:36,900
some of the bear Market. 
Bitterness be washed away with 

1113
01:04:36,900 --> 01:04:40,100
some nice Sweet. 
Gelato from the shop, close by 

1114
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,600
Fantastic. 
If people want to find out more 

1115
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:49,700
about gelato or use, gelato, or 
become active in the gelato 

1116
01:04:49,700 --> 01:04:53,800
Community, where do we send them
understand? 

1117
01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,900
So first of all, gelato dot 
network is the website that you 

1118
01:04:56,900 --> 01:05:01,300
find all the various resources 
and links, the most active 

1119
01:05:02,000 --> 01:05:04,400
channel-facets Discord there. 
If you were free developer, 

1120
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:07,300
you're starting out or you are 
an advanced person who wants to 

1121
01:05:07,300 --> 01:05:10,000
go deep into gelato. 
Just come there and chat with us

1122
01:05:10,500 --> 01:05:12,100
and And of course, follow us on 
Twitter. 

1123
01:05:12,100 --> 01:05:14,700
We are also producing a lot of 
video content on YouTube, so 

1124
01:05:14,700 --> 01:05:17,000
make sure to try to follow us on
YouTube, as well. 

1125
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,900
We'll probably do some cool 
Vlogs for each Denver, so if 

1126
01:05:19,900 --> 01:05:22,100
you're not there and can 
participate, but still when I 

1127
01:05:22,107 --> 01:05:25,400
experience it and make sure to 
check out our other Vlog there. 

1128
01:05:25,700 --> 01:05:29,500
And yeah, so this card is the 
best form and to it, of course, 

1129
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,800
Fantastic, thank you both for 
coming on. 

1130
01:05:32,800 --> 01:05:36,900
This was super fun. 
Thanks, thank you. 

1131
01:05:38,900 --> 01:05:40,700
Thank you for joining us on this
week's episode. 

1132
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:42,700
We release new episodes every 
week. 

1133
01:05:43,200 --> 01:05:46,000
You can find And subscribe to 
the show on iTunes Spotify, 

1134
01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:49,100
YouTube SoundCloud or wherever 
you listen to podcast. 

1135
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:52,300
And if you have a Google home or
Alexa device, you can tell it to

1136
01:05:52,300 --> 01:05:55,200
listen to the latest episode of 
the epicenter podcast, go to 

1137
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:58,300
epicenter, .t V /, subscribe for
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1138
01:05:58,308 --> 01:06:00,900
can watch and listen, while 
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1139
01:06:00,900 --> 01:06:03,700
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1140
01:06:03,700 --> 01:06:07,100
they're released if you want to 
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1141
01:06:07,100 --> 01:06:10,300
podcast listeners, you can Oh us
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1142
01:06:10,308 --> 01:06:12,400
review on iTunes. 
It helps people find the show 

1143
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:15,900
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1144
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:17,200
look forward to being back next 
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1145
01:06:08,700 --> 01:06:11,100
Oh us on Twitter and please 
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1146
01:06:11,300 --> 01:06:13,600
It helps people find the show 
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1147
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,900
them but thanks so much and we 
look forward to being back next 

1148
01:06:16,900 --> 01:06:17,200
week.