1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,320
Anything built atop of the EVM 
stack is going to be 

2
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:03,800
susceptible. 
We're going to see a billion 

3
00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:05,320
dollar hack, and that prediction
came through. 

4
00:00:05,560 --> 00:00:07,200
I think it's only going to get 
worse with time. 

5
00:00:07,480 --> 00:00:10,160
The stacks that exist today in 
Web Three are inherently unsafe.

6
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,920
If you can coordinate what 
people do online in a very 

7
00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,320
programmatic way and in a 
composable way, you'll solve the

8
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:19,080
world's problems. 
Whether they're buying or 

9
00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:22,120
selling assets, whether they 
want to build rules around their

10
00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,560
data and decide who can see that
data, who can't see that data. 

11
00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,320
If they want to give you access 
to a file, we will access to a 

12
00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,480
file right now on the Internet. 
Do not talk to each other to 

13
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:33,520
make that possible. 
So our narrative is very, very 

14
00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,800
different. 
We're really rebuilding the 

15
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,040
Google stack, right? 
The AWS stack. 

16
00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,880
We have a decentralized KMS. 
We have a decentralized stories 

17
00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:42,800
layer, we have a decentralized 
coordination layer. 

18
00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:45,520
All these things are now 
available with SWE and it's now 

19
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,280
getting adopted. 
For example, you can have all 

20
00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,840
front end of your website logs 
from Walrus and you get 

21
00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,640
guarantees that it's not been 
hacked to get guarantees around 

22
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:55,600
the packages you're engaging 
with online versus the Internet 

23
00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:56,640
today. 
That gives you no guarantees 

24
00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:58,640
that you're engaging with the 
right program, should I say? 

25
00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,840
Welcome to the episode of the 
show which talks about the 

26
00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:04,120
technologies, projects and 
people driving decentralization 

27
00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,280
into blockchain revolution. 
I'm Brian Crane and today I'm 

28
00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,200
speaking with Danny, who is the 
chief product officer and Co 

29
00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,520
founder of Miss and Labs, the 
company that's built SUE 

30
00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:18,600
Network. 
Of course, SUE doesn't need much

31
00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:22,400
of an introduction. 
It's been one of the L ones. 

32
00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,440
So the next generation L1 has 
been getting, you know, the most

33
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,800
traction and the most 
activities. 

34
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,920
So super excited to talk with 
him about the history, the 

35
00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,800
technology, the technology and 
some of the things going on in 

36
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:38,680
Sui. 
So just before we get started 

37
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,520
with Anthony, we want to share a
few words from our sponsors this

38
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:44,960
week. 
If you're looking to stake your 

39
00:01:44,960 --> 00:01:48,040
crypto with confidence, look no 
further than Course 1. 

40
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,120
More than 150,000 delegators, 
including institutions like Bit 

41
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:54,760
Go, Pantera Capital and Ledger 
Trust Course one with the 

42
00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,040
assets. 
They support over 50 block 

43
00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:59,360
chains and are leaders in 
governance or networks like 

44
00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,480
Cosmos, ensuring your stake is 
responsibly managed. 

45
00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,800
Thanks to the advanced MEV 
research, you can also enjoy the

46
00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,919
highest staking rewards. 
You can stake directly from your

47
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,360
preferred wallet, set up a white
label note, restake your assets 

48
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,080
on Eigenia or Symbiotic, or use 
the SDK for multi chain staking 

49
00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:19,120
in your app. 
Learn more at Chorus .1 and 

50
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,520
start staking today. 
This episode is proudly brought 

51
00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,480
to you by Gnosis, A collective 
dedicated to advancing a 

52
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,640
decentralized future. 
Gnosis leads innovation with 

53
00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:34,240
Circles, Gnosis Pay and Metri, 
reshaping open banking and 

54
00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:37,120
money. 
With Hashi and Gnosis VPN, 

55
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,040
they're building a more 
resilient, privacy focused 

56
00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:42,600
Internet. 
If you're looking for an L1 to 

57
00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:45,840
launch your project, Gnosis 
Chain offers the same 

58
00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:49,040
development environment as 
Ethereum with lower transaction 

59
00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,120
fees. 
It's supported by over 200,000 

60
00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,560
ballot errors, making Gnosis 
Chain a reliable and credibly 

61
00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:57,440
neutral foundation for your 
applications. 

62
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,800
Gnosis Dow drives Gnosis 
governance, where every voice 

63
00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,520
matters. 
Join the Gnosis community in the

64
00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,960
Gnosis Dow forum today. 
Deploy on the EVM compatible 

65
00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:14,040
Nosis chain or secure the 
network with just one GNO and 

66
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,080
affordable hardware. 
Start your decentralization 

67
00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,360
journey today at nosis dot IO. 
Cool. 

68
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,160
I mean, thanks so much for 
coming on. 

69
00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,080
It's great to have you. 
It's an honor. 

70
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,000
Look forward to always talking 
to you. 

71
00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,280
I thought it would be 
interesting to start a little 

72
00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,080
bit with the origin story maybe 
both in terms of like your 

73
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:39,400
interest in crypto. 
And then I mean, I think my 

74
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:42,400
understanding is a lot of this 
early initial work happened 

75
00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:48,400
still at Meta, at Facebook. 
Yeah, so by way background, I've

76
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,040
been in crypto since 2:00, late 
2011 actually. 

77
00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,240
So I've been in crypto for a 
long time going along with 

78
00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,160
Bitcoin space. 
Very early it was mining 

79
00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,080
Bitcoin, buying Bitcoin at 10 
cents. 

80
00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,080
Oh, wow, interesting. 
I wish I didn't sell a majority 

81
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:02,520
of my coins, but it is what it 
is. 

82
00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,160
But I've built a number of 
companies in the space. 

83
00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:08,760
I got involved in Facebook 
actually on Libra. 

84
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:12,560
I was working at VM Ware and 
Facebook had taken one of the 

85
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:15,600
top distributor systems 
researchers that we had and I 

86
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,279
got interested in their project 
as a result of that and realized

87
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:19,760
they were building something 
really compelling. 

88
00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:21,399
That's where I met my Co 
founders. 

89
00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:25,680
Interestingly, Sam, George, 
Costas, Evan, we had a really 

90
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,120
good time working on a project. 
I still say today it's the 

91
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,920
probably the second best job 
I've ever had working at Meta on

92
00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,880
Libra. 
And of course, the best job I 

93
00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,600
have right now is working on 
SWI. 

94
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,280
So we had a number of 
regulatory, regulatory hurdles 

95
00:04:40,280 --> 00:04:44,640
in getting Libra to market, 
which it never got to see the 

96
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,600
light of day. 
But still the spirit of the 

97
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,720
projects lives on through SWI. 
When we left Meta, we actually 

98
00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,040
didn't use the although the code
is all open towards we didn't 

99
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,880
use the code that we had at 
Facebook for, for SWI. 

100
00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:02,840
We learned a lot from buildings 
Libra of what not to do. 

101
00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:07,240
We're we're building to a very 
specific timeline, very specific

102
00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,040
set of primitives. 
And it was really going to be a 

103
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,000
more permission system at the 
beginning. 

104
00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,400
When you're launching Libra, 
it's going to be, you know, 

105
00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,240
between 25 to 30 members that 
started the consortium. 

106
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,800
And over time, the plan was to 
decentralize and build up 

107
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,080
something more scalable over 
time. 

108
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,440
When we left Meta, we had the 
opportunity to just start with a

109
00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,760
blank slate. 
We also knew that the way you 

110
00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:30,400
succeed here is not trying to 
build just a layer one. 

111
00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,360
We believe there's a pristine 
opportunity to build a layer for

112
00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,880
the Internet, a decentralized 
stack where developers who 

113
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:39,680
wanted to build new business 
models can thrive. 

114
00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,520
And the Internet today lacks 
that. 

115
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,720
You know, if you had before to 
build anything in the Internet 

116
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,320
today, you're really using 
existing centralized stacks who 

117
00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,880
have very difficult primitives 
that don't really all gel 

118
00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,200
together really well. 
And there's no programmability 

119
00:05:52,280 --> 00:05:54,200
or possibility across these 
assets. 

120
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,320
So we felt that there was a big 
opportunity to build a multi 

121
00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,200
trillion dollar of business in 
trying to basically decentralize

122
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,120
the entire stack and compete 
with the likes of Google or 

123
00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:06,080
Facebook or wherever in terms of
providing that level of 

124
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,720
infrastructure and and surfaces 
for people to engage with. 

125
00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:14,440
That formed Mr. Labs and Mr. 
Labs first product was Sweet and

126
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,520
miss Lab. 
Second product was launching 

127
00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,320
deep book and 3rd was Sweden ass
and now Walrus as well. 

128
00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,080
We have a number of protocols 
coming out very soon that extend

129
00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:24,960
that you're going to have 
general purpose computation that

130
00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:27,760
you can do verifiable often 
computation that you can do with

131
00:06:28,840 --> 00:06:31,200
with Nautilus that we'll be 
launching very soon. 

132
00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,840
You have seal and the two based,
you know, encryption scheme that

133
00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,040
lets you manage keys using 
pressure signatures as weighted,

134
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:43,040
not have to manage keys yourself
to encrypt and decrypt files, 

135
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,960
which is what you're going to 
need for the Internet. 

136
00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,560
But all this stuff is very 
composable. 

137
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,880
It's all programmable. 
You can build whatever you want 

138
00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:50,360
with this new decentralized 
fact. 

139
00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,600
And we're the only company in 
the world that's doing this. 

140
00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:59,200
So when you think of the the 
long term vision of SUV, so you 

141
00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,120
describe it as kind of this 
decentralized Internet stack. 

142
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:09,760
So sounds like quite a divergent
from the way people are full of 

143
00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:15,600
L ones historically or like how 
do you feel like the vision kind

144
00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:19,880
of it diverges here? 
Yeah, People building L1, 

145
00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:21,960
they're just really thinking 
mostly about trading. 

146
00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:23,840
To a large extent, they'll try 
and tell you it's more than 

147
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:25,640
that, but realistically, they 
only care about tokens being 

148
00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:28,480
launched. 
Our vision's always been, hey, 

149
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,760
if you can coordinate what 
people do online in a, in a very

150
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,520
programmatic way and the 
composable way you solve the 

151
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,960
world's problems, and LA 1 is 
what you're meant to use for 

152
00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,560
that, right? 
It's meant to, well, Swede does 

153
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:45,000
that, right? 
Most of the ones don't. 

154
00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,680
The goal of Swede itself, that 
layer is to help coddle what 

155
00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:50,880
people do online, whether 
they're buying or selling 

156
00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,880
assets, whether they're owning 
concert tickets or transferring 

157
00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,600
it, whether they want to build 
rules around their data and 

158
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:00,160
decide who can see that data, 
who can't see that data. 

159
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,880
If they want to give you access 
to a file, revoke access to a 

160
00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:04,920
file. 
Right now, these systems on the 

161
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,840
Internet do not talk to each 
other to make that possible. 

162
00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,120
You have to build things using 
duct tape all over to make it 

163
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:11,840
work. 
And you end up realizing that 

164
00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,440
you just build a centralized 
system because it's easy to 

165
00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:15,400
coordinate when you own 
everything in house. 

166
00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,040
This is why we have these mask 
conglomerate, right? 

167
00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,920
We just do everything in the 
house themselves and you have no

168
00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:22,640
real composability across 
services. 

169
00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,000
That is the opportunity and it's
a deviation from what L ones do 

170
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,480
because I believe you know that 
ambition is not something I've 

171
00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,400
seen voiced by any L1 right. 
Our ambition is beyond that. 

172
00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,960
We we believe that we can 
coordinate what people do online

173
00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,760
using suite and you can marry 
that with the ability to have 

174
00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,400
people own their own data using 
walrus. 

175
00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:44,120
You can coordinate that with 
like allowing people to encrypt 

176
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,760
and encrypt or give access to 
file, remove access to file 

177
00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,200
using seal and then you can also
verify what they've done online.

178
00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:52,320
Whether you want to verify bank 
balance in the bank account, you

179
00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:55,000
want to verify the, whether you 
want to verify some computation 

180
00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,640
that happens off chain, but then
attest to that user the 

181
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:02,080
blockchain, we let you do that 
as well with, with Nautilus 

182
00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,160
coming out. 
So our narrative is very, very 

183
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:06,480
different. 
We're really rebuilding the 

184
00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:10,200
Google stack, right? 
The AWS stack you imagine AW has

185
00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:15,360
as storage as compute, as 
encryption KMS services. 

186
00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,200
We have a decentralized KMS, we 
have decentralized storage 

187
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,120
layer, we have a decentralized 
coordination layer. 

188
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:22,840
All these things are now 
available with SUI and it's now 

189
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,360
getting being adopted as we 
speak. 

190
00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:28,240
So like let's say if you take 
like Solana, right, they have 

191
00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,240
always had this, you know, this 
description of the vision as 

192
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:35,120
like or decentralized NASDAQ. 
And you know, like as you 

193
00:09:35,120 --> 00:09:39,320
pointed out, right, it's very 
focused on trading and financial

194
00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,560
use cases. 
Do you also feel, you know, 

195
00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:49,400
there is a particular type of 
application or that you know, 

196
00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:51,760
this is most crucial for, right?
Because in the end a lot of 

197
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,960
stuff people just use normal 
centralized products and you 

198
00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,120
know, they seems to work fairly 
well. 

199
00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,560
But the what is kind of the the 
key breakthrough here? 

200
00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,240
Or like you know, the type of 
problem where this is really 

201
00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:07,480
crucial. 
Yeah. 

202
00:10:07,480 --> 00:10:11,480
So the three areas of focus we 
have it's we have a focus on 

203
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:15,720
commerce in finance and then 
also in gaming. 

204
00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,320
Those are the three areas of 
focus. 

205
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,760
But SUI and our platform and 
family of parts are very general

206
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:22,280
purpose. 
You can build anything you want 

207
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:24,320
on them. 
And in fact I'd argue you can 

208
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,880
build a lot more verticals 
across horizontal using our 

209
00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:28,800
stack than anywhere else. 
For example, you can have all 

210
00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,320
front end of your website, most 
from Walrus and you get 

211
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:34,160
guarantees that it's not been 
hacked to get guarantees around 

212
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,080
the packages you're engaging 
with online versus the Internet 

213
00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:38,120
today. 
That gives you no guarantees 

214
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,080
that you're engaging with the 
right in future. 

215
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,280
You're engaging with the right 
program. 

216
00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,000
Should I say it's something 
called binary transparency that 

217
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,840
matters. 
I wanna start off with this 

218
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,880
premise of, hey, we are building
a decentralized NASDAQ because 

219
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,600
they're mentors like hey, if we 
solve trading, we solve a 

220
00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,600
massive problem. 
We believe you have to go beyond

221
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,120
that, right? 
Three already has a 

222
00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,560
decentralized NASDAQ, right, 
which is called Deepak and 

223
00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:01,000
that's growing significantly 
faster. 

224
00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,200
It operates faster in terms of 
throughput than any other 

225
00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,920
central order book that exists 
in web three. 

226
00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,440
It performs as well as those 
centralized exchanges to large 

227
00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:12,480
degree. 
If you're going to do bulk 

228
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:13,840
trade, you could do that on 
Depot today. 

229
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:16,480
But our roommate is larger than 
that, right? 

230
00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,440
It's it's going beyond just 
trading. 

231
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,360
It's things that you do on 
Internet. 

232
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:22,920
Everyone does commerce, everyone
does finance, and everyone does 

233
00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:25,640
some form of gaming. 
There over 3.1 billion gamers. 

234
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,520
Last year we spent over $200 
million. 

235
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,520
That's more than movies, that's 
more than music combined. 

236
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:34,840
But we're going after massive 
areas where users can engage 

237
00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:37,920
with the chain in very 
interesting ways. 

238
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,720
That is that you don't have to 
be front and center. 

239
00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,080
I always say when you go to a 
website today, you don't think 

240
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:44,800
this website is awesome because 
it's run on Google. 

241
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:47,280
It's just a website right And 
our infrastructure is going to 

242
00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:48,480
be that well hidden in the back 
end. 

243
00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:49,880
It's going to power the most of 
the Internet. 

244
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,720
You you can start running 
banking applications on SWE and 

245
00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:57,680
you can get guarantees that the 
banking application you engage 

246
00:11:57,680 --> 00:12:00,480
with is absolutely legitimate 
and the application is up to 

247
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:01,680
date. 
It's not been hijacked. 

248
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:04,400
We saw a massive hack that 
happened over a billion dollars 

249
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,000
lost of recent. 
If this fact was built using 

250
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:12,200
Walrus as a front end story 
layer and then Sui as a back end

251
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,240
coordination layer, that hack 
would have been absolutely 

252
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,240
impossible. 
And we made the point that 

253
00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:19,040
anything built atop of the EVM 
stack is going to be 

254
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,520
susceptible. 
We're going to see a billion 

255
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,040
dollar hack and that prediction 
came true. 

256
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,920
I think it's only going to get 
worse with time. 

257
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:26,880
The stacks that exist today in 
web three are inherently unsafe.

258
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,760
They're very, very difficult to 
build predictable business 

259
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,680
models because one costs are 
very, very high because your 

260
00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:34,800
business gets successful gas, 
you'd go through the roof. 

261
00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,280
They're built on the concept of 
block space being this finite 

262
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,120
resource, and when you have a 
finite resource supply and 

263
00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,680
demand kicks in. 
The more demand blocked base 

264
00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,080
demand you have, the higher the 
price is to go to deal with the 

265
00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,040
supply and demand. 
Swede does not work on that 

266
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,720
premise. 
In fact, the more resources you 

267
00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,920
need, the more block space you 
need for Swede, the more 

268
00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:55,960
hardware you throw. 
Therefore you scale it 

269
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,360
horizontally. 
So Swede, the only chain has 

270
00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,400
been demonstrated that you add 7
times the hardware, you get 7 

271
00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,680
times the throughput, 0 increase
in latency. 

272
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,040
So in mainnet right now, our 
configuration would run at 

273
00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,120
297,000 transactions per second.
You add 7 times the hardware, 

274
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,920
you get 7 times the throughput 
with no increase in latency. 

275
00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,760
This is how the Internet should 
work, right? 

276
00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,000
Like it's horizontally scalable.
Scalable. 

277
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:21,040
This is how we build 
infrastructure for search at 

278
00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:22,600
Google. 
It's how we build infrastructure

279
00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,880
for Facebook. 
In terms of anything we did, 

280
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:27,520
everything needs to have an 
element of provide more 

281
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,360
resources. 
And then you scale horizontally.

282
00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,000
That level of expertise has not 
existed in Web 3. 

283
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,400
It's the first time it's been 
possible, possible. 

284
00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,160
I think we're bringing that 
level of expertise of research 

285
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,040
and development to Web 3 and 
that's going to be what's needed

286
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,200
to build next generation 
infrastructure that everyone is 

287
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:43,840
really powering their businesses
off. 

288
00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,240
Let's let's dive a bit into the 
technical architecture. 

289
00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:49,520
Like what? 
How would you describe the 

290
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,800
technical architecture of Sui? 
So it's exactly what I was 

291
00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,600
saying, right? 
Like the first thing is what 

292
00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,360
makes me amazing is not the fact
that there's one thing we do 

293
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,240
well, the optimization is 
required, which is why I'm 

294
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,040
against this like modular 
approach. 

295
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,720
It doesn't make much sense, 
right? 

296
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,080
You need to, the monolith works 
because you understand every 

297
00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,640
intrinsic layer right of the 
infrastructure and you can take 

298
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,560
the Max opportunity to optimize 
the heck out of it, right? 

299
00:14:15,560 --> 00:14:18,560
We have a storage model that is 
object based. 

300
00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,760
So intrinsically we're using an 
object based system. 

301
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,600
We know whether one transaction,
another transaction have 

302
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,760
contention and this is done 
statically. 

303
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:28,280
There's no need to 
programmatically figure that 

304
00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,280
out, which means you can, the 
more CPS you have, the more 

305
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:33,680
things you can do concurrently 
in parallel. 

306
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,120
No blockchain does that. 
Everything is assumed it's a 

307
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,120
single large database and then 
you lock the tide database every

308
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,360
time you want to make updates. 
So dealing with contention is 

309
00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:44,960
inherently difficult in other 
chains where Swede the data 

310
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,240
models bit it's baked in. 
So we've got a date data model 

311
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,880
that is object based. 
We have a program paradigm with 

312
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:54,520
we move that takes advantage of 
that object based system and 

313
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,600
allows you to build and crack 
real world assets, real world 

314
00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,640
systems using the object 
paradigm. 

315
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:01,880
Most program languages are 
object oriented. 

316
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,000
Most developers understand or 
object oriented concepts. 

317
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,600
So building 1 Swede, they're 
learning it in less than four 

318
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:08,760
days. 
People are getting very 

319
00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:12,200
competent in building in Swede 
move in four days because the 

320
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,320
paradigms they're used to in 
traditional program languages 

321
00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,840
are forwarded to them in Swede. 
Separately, we have a very low 

322
00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,720
latency consensus scheme that 
scales horizontally. 

323
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:25,360
So Mr. Seti, which we launched 
in base camp last year, took 

324
00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,600
latency into a latency down to 
400 milliseconds. 

325
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:32,360
Actual finality from when I 
submit a trade to when it's 

326
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:35,200
final, we drop the latency down 
to 400 milliseconds. 

327
00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,640
This is, this is insane. 
So you, you're, you're really 

328
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,720
have our block times are, you 
know, less than 100 

329
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,520
milliseconds, something like 70 
to 80 milliseconds. 

330
00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:47,200
Those numbers are interesting, 
but what really matters is 

331
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,600
what's the user experience. 
So when people use a Defy 

332
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,040
protocol on Twee, they realise 
all transactions are instant. 

333
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,520
When you do a trade, when you do
a swap, when you want to make a 

334
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,800
payment for something, 
everything happens lightly fast.

335
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,400
It feels just like Web 2 to the 
point where you think it's some 

336
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:03,800
centralized server running. 
That is the experience people 

337
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,800
want. 
The idea of waiting and having 

338
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,240
this optimistic finality is not 
how you build real compelling 

339
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:12,280
applications. 
So that stack allows developers 

340
00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,760
to really build applications 
that are akin to the experiences

341
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:17,960
of web too. 
And then you add on to the fact 

342
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:20,080
that we have something called ZK
login, which is this 

343
00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:24,080
cryptographic primitives in SWE 
that lets you use your existing 

344
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,600
Facebook, Google, WhatsApp, 
whatever account you have as an 

345
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,440
identifier to create an account 
on chain and do that for you 

346
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,480
permissionlessly. 
So if you're logging with your 

347
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:35,120
Google account, you have a 
wallet in SWE. 

348
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:37,680
Google have no idea what 
transactions are doing. 

349
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,840
They have no idea between your 
Google account and launch an 

350
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:41,480
address. 
Nobody can tell the difference. 

351
00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:44,600
That is a superpower. 
Which means you can onboard 

352
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:50,000
users into SWE using normal web 
2 perimeters and then need to be

353
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,320
none the wiser whether they're 
engaging with the chain or not. 

354
00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,680
What makes it super important 
though, if it's the chain itself

355
00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,160
that verifies your session, It's
not some third party middleware 

356
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,360
that stick takes all your data 
and listens to all your 

357
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,640
transactions that you do and 
tries to sell ads to you. 

358
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,040
The chain itself verifies that 
session, which is super 

359
00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:09,319
critical. 
That is a game changer in terms 

360
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:10,480
of the perimeters that we've 
launched. 

361
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,160
Yeah, a bunch of stuff we want 
to dive in here. 

362
00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:15,599
Maybe we can start with the last
one. 

363
00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:21,440
So this login, so it's kind of 
like a sign in with Google and 

364
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,079
how does that work under the 
hood? 

365
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:25,839
So we have, it's called ZK 
login. 

366
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:27,640
It's something that we built in 
the house at Miston. 

367
00:17:27,839 --> 00:17:30,600
It's actually something we're 
trying to solve as a problem at 

368
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,080
Facebook. 
We never had the, we never had 

369
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,000
the time nor the resources, the 
time to figure it out. 

370
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,560
It still was come to some, we 
still needed to hold 

371
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:42,000
cryptographic signatures with 
what we have with ZK login. 

372
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:46,640
What happens is we will generate
A0 lawless proof using your 

373
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,080
using your search, your cookie 
that you get from when you sign 

374
00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:54,040
in with Google. 
And that generation of a 

375
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,760
mathematical proof is what we 
use to authenticate. 

376
00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,000
It creates a what we call, you 
know, it's basically a temporary

377
00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,880
key that you use to sign 
transactions. 

378
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,800
So these things expire out of 
some number of days. 

379
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:07,080
You have to sign in again, 
right, which is what you expect,

380
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,400
right with any account. 
But once you've signed in with 

381
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,000
Zika login, you can use that 
same once you've signed in with 

382
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,200
your Google account face with a 
supposed cacao and a number of 

383
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,720
other providers and it keeps 
increasing on a regular basis. 

384
00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,680
You then have that deterministic
way to sign transactions in this

385
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,960
ecosystem. 
That means from a user 

386
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:25,560
perspective, private keys are no
longer a thing. 

387
00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,280
If you lose access, if you 
forget your password for your 

388
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,720
Google account, you just reset 
your Google account password and

389
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,400
you still have access to your 
assets as well. 

390
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,480
So it's done entirely in a fully
transparent way from a user 

391
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:37,640
perspective. 
It's a way you're on board using

392
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,920
asking people to go and download
a wallet and then go and 

393
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,880
remember some paraphrase or some
PIN. 

394
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,720
It's just not going to work, 
right? 

395
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,440
I mean, if you're paranoid about
a billion dollars, yes, maybe 

396
00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,360
you're going to do something 
elaborate with a legend device 

397
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:53,560
or whatever, but for a couple of
100 bucks and maybe 20 dollars, 

398
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,960
$5, even like $15,000, right? 
Most people are using ZK login. 

399
00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,600
It's actually, I feel safer with
ZK login than using some key 

400
00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,400
management system because I 
inherently I've lost money using

401
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,200
key management systems before. 
But my Google account is 

402
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:09,760
defended like Fort Knox, right? 
Or my Facebook account is 

403
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,080
developed. 
Is, is, is is a secure that I 

404
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:14,320
want it to be right. 
So I'll use those schemes 

405
00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,600
because I'm I'm comfortable with
them. 

406
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,520
I sign in to a number of 
services online today, even 

407
00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,200
those schemes, I feel more 
comfortable accessing assets 

408
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,760
that way, so that's really what 
we've built here. 

409
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:26,080
Yeah, Yeah. 
I mean, I think that's a 

410
00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,720
tremendous UX breakthrough for 
sure. 

411
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,840
And I I do agree, I think having
that on the base layer is, yeah,

412
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,640
very powerful. 
Yeah. 

413
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:38,680
I mean, yeah, something called 
crypto agility, right? 

414
00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,200
We support keys with Solana, key
with Eve. 

415
00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:43,320
You can use whatever key you 
want the Sun transaction with 

416
00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,520
Sweet, right? 
But the fact that you can now 

417
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,480
use your web 2 keys to sign 
transactions with Suite, that's 

418
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,760
another element of of that 
That's very. 

419
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,320
Do you see that also as a sort 
of account abstraction thing 

420
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,920
where then you could potentially
use that to, you know, execute 

421
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,240
actions on other chains? 
Yeah. 

422
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,720
We, we actually have a project 
on SUI called EKA. 

423
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,200
And EKA fundamentally does that,
right. 

424
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:08,920
It effectively lets you sign 
transactions on any chain you 

425
00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,560
want. 
It supports Solana, SUI, ETH, 

426
00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:16,600
you name it, right. 
You can effectively use SUI as a

427
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:18,560
layer for coordination. 
It does that all transparently 

428
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,040
for you. 
But the transaction the as a 

429
00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,280
signature scheme, MPC scheme 
that will sign transactions for 

430
00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,160
you on any chain you want. 
So if you want to get the 

431
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,320
security of SUI, where all your 
assets are governed by SUI, you 

432
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:30,800
get that. 
If you want to still maintain 

433
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:32,560
your assets and other chain, you
get that as well. 

434
00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,080
So that's the element of how you
can take the powerless we offers

435
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:39,080
you to other chains and use that
as a way to control assets 

436
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,680
wherever you want. 
So I also wanted to talk a bit 

437
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,040
more about this object based 
approach. 

438
00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:51,040
So the object here is it, it can
be a smart contract or it can be

439
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:54,200
an account or like what are the 
types of things that are 

440
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,840
objects? 
So every so the the smallest 

441
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,720
unit of computation in Swede is 
strongly typed objects. 

442
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:04,760
In Swede. 
It's not bits or bytes. 

443
00:21:05,040 --> 00:21:07,760
They're strongly typed objects. 
That's the smallest unit of 

444
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,520
computation, which means 
everything to a large extent is 

445
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,920
an object in Swede. 
Your entities are objects. 

446
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,200
Your coins are objects. 
Your account is an object. 

447
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,280
Everything is an object. 
In fact, we don't really have an

448
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:20,920
account model in Swede, right? 
Everything is an object model in

449
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,280
Swede. 
So you know that paradigm. 

450
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:25,280
The world doesn't think from an 
account perspective, the things 

451
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,920
around objects like this is an 
object. 

452
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,520
I own it in my hand, I hold it, 
I transfer it to people. 

453
00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,200
That element of transfer, 
transferring an object from one 

454
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,920
person to another, it's 
inherently baked into the 

455
00:21:35,360 --> 00:21:38,440
underlying design for Swede that
lets you do really powerful 

456
00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,520
things because it's from the 
type objects now, right? 

457
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,120
I can take an object as an 
argument into a function and 

458
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:47,600
it's a virtual machine to ensure
the integrity of that object is 

459
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:50,560
maintained. 
So it means I can build a, a 

460
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:54,520
dex, right? 
And the assets of support are 

461
00:21:54,520 --> 00:22:00,240
can be dynamic or I can build, 
you know, an NFT that would take

462
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,280
that would take two objects and 
it would merge them and spit out

463
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,680
something else in the end. 
But ultimately it means now 

464
00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:08,040
people can build on the work 
that I have. 

465
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:09,560
Interfaces are not the way to do
that. 

466
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:12,400
Interfaces in a world where 
contact, that's all we all say 

467
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,200
is a sin. 
Light interfaces are a sin, 

468
00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,640
right? 
Objects is really what you want,

469
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:17,520
right? 
You have an object that's 

470
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:18,840
strongly typed. 
We're very well defined. 

471
00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,480
You have, you know, you know, a 
function that really will take 

472
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:26,080
that object as a set of inputs. 
From a programmability point of 

473
00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:28,840
view, makes a lot of sense 
because that's how you build in 

474
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,040
any program language today. 
You're taking an object as a as 

475
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,720
a bit of a function, you execute
computation over it and you 

476
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:37,320
split something else out. 
That is what Sweet offers you. 

477
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,640
This is why most developers get 
Sweet very easily. 

478
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,760
You're not trying to think of, 
hey, I need to put above some 

479
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,640
bit stream and reconstruct 
something off the off the end of

480
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,680
it, you know, make sure that the
integrity is maintained, have 

481
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,960
some kind of hash table to 
manage everything. 

482
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:54,960
And you know, it's all a mess, 
right? 

483
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,360
This is why you have all these 
hacks, right? 

484
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:58,120
And they're really bad systems 
design. 

485
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:01,560
There's no real composability 
with majority of other systems. 

486
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:04,920
Whereas with an object based 
system, what you do get is, is a

487
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,280
fully permissionless 
composability, which matters, 

488
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,680
right? 
I don't need to give you 

489
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,920
permission to use some kind of 
interface to engage with me. 

490
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,120
There's no kind of standing 
inter formally, we adapt. 

491
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:17,760
You simply just use an object 
which is what you're used to, 

492
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,240
iteration probable languages, 
which is way, way better. 

493
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,680
And everything is a single 
address space. 

494
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,560
None of the sharding nonsense 
that people talk about where 

495
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,280
hey, where's my Shard? 
Where's my data is in Shard 1, 

496
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,400
Shard 2. 
It's a single space that you 

497
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,360
worry about from a developer 
point of view, which means 

498
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:36,040
everything is accessible from a 
single address space, which 

499
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,080
which is where you get a 
composability and everything is 

500
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,840
atomic in essence. 
So I'm curious how that connects

501
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:45,560
with, you know, how you guys 
process transactions. 

502
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,200
So you have all of these 
different transactions coming in

503
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:54,120
and you know, some of them kind 
of touch different objects and 

504
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,400
because right. 
So we one of the ways you guys 

505
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:02,200
achieve this kind of scalability
is through being able to process

506
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:07,560
transactions in parallel. 
So do you guys then try to 

507
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:10,960
upfront see, OK, which you know 
where do you have it? 

508
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,160
Because obviously one of the 
challenges, so let's say now you

509
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,440
have one transaction that 
touches a bunch of others. 

510
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,920
And then so I think in Solana, 
right, you have to say upfront 

511
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,200
what what the counts or 
contracts you touch and then and

512
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,560
then they kind of paralyze it. 
So it's a little, is it a little

513
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,120
bit similar to that or like 
that? 

514
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,480
That that there's no need to do 
that kind of nonsense and sweet,

515
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,480
right, because everything is an 
object in the space you're 

516
00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,560
defining the object you're using
at any given time. 

517
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:42,480
For example, I'm submitting my 
object X into the function of 

518
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,400
object Y, right? 
And that's very well defined in 

519
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,160
normal programming paradigm. 
It's very easy to think about 

520
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:49,720
that from a normal programming 
perspective. 

521
00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:51,800
You're not thinking of addresses
you're not thinking of how do I 

522
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:53,280
deal with contention from that 
point of view? 

523
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,160
You're simply just writing 
applications. 

524
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,960
But the separate, the, the key 
thing is you almost incentivize 

525
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,520
to write code that takes 
advantage of Swiss 

526
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:04,960
parallelization in this 
scenario, let's say for example,

527
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,720
right like because there are two
objects and they're, they're 

528
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,520
touching different bits of 
state, they are processed 

529
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,640
automatically in parallel and 
suite, no questions asked. 

530
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:14,600
You don't have to worry about 
that. 

531
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:16,800
But what about if you have 
something that's a hot object 

532
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:20,400
where there's real convention, 
when somebody's contentious, 

533
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,880
there's contention, there's 
there's no magic art, right? 

534
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:24,760
There's no nothing you can do 
around contention. 

535
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,880
You've got to be able to still 
process things in in, in a 

536
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,520
sequence, but deal with that 
contention. 

537
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,120
So Swede does have localized 
flea markets that will increase 

538
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:36,560
price on hot objects only, but 
effects nothing else with other 

539
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,400
transactions. 
So if you have an object that's 

540
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,760
hot, there's high, high 
contention, no other 

541
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,200
transactions in the Swede 
ecosystems affected, you won't 

542
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,000
even notice because there's 
nothing to do with you, right? 

543
00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:47,880
But what you'd notice is the gas
heats for that particular 

544
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,600
contentious object starts to 
increase. 

545
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,600
So what you as a developer can 
do, let's say for example, I 

546
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:56,720
have a pool that's GPYUSD and 
I'm finding it's contentional 

547
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:58,600
GPYUSD. 
But what I can do is I can 

548
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,640
create multitude of pools for 
different price points, right, 

549
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,240
to start to spread that 
contention a bit more broadly 

550
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,640
across a number of objects. 
So what you can start to do is 

551
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,400
breakdown objects into smaller 
components to spread that 

552
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,440
contention over a number of 
objects and get that 

553
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,400
parallelisation as a result of 
that. 

554
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,800
So that's more of a natural way 
to solving the problem than this

555
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,600
brute force of tell me what 
you're going to touch and I'm 

556
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,640
going to decide what I'm going 
to, if I'm going to be able to 

557
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,240
parallelise it or not. 
You know, that is way more 

558
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,640
natural for programmed 
programmed design paradigm than 

559
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,840
what is afforded to people using
other schemes today. 

560
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,560
So that basically means, let's 
say now there's a decks and a 

561
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:37,760
lot of people trying to trade 
with the stacks. 

562
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,280
So the the fee stand for 
interacting with the decks 

563
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,800
they're going to go up whereas 
normal transactions that. 

564
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,440
Particular pair, not the entire.
Deck pair, yeah. 

565
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,400
If that particular pair is hot 
and the other pairs aren't hot, 

566
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,440
you'll not see any increase for 
anyone else, right? 

567
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:52,920
It would just be that particular
pair. 

568
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,800
And and then the order and then 
you basically say, OK, now we 

569
00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,840
have a particular block and 
there's like 10 transactions 

570
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:02,280
that will interact with this 
particular pair. 

571
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:07,280
Then they would get executed in 
order of, you know, basically 

572
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:13,720
highest fee to lowest fee. 
Yeah, OK, OK, interesting. 

573
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,760
Yeah, Yeah, I think kind of 
touches on something I want to 

574
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,200
come back to later. 
It's just that the MEB topic, 

575
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:24,080
but let's talk a bit more about 
the developer experience. 

576
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:29,040
So I know move is obviously, you
know, you guys are the the 

577
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:33,200
leading move chain and and move 
is, you know, today, I guess we 

578
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:35,000
have the three leading ways, 
right? 

579
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,960
If you have risk more contracts 
is solidity EDM, right, still 

580
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:44,560
number one, and then SVM, Solana
and then move right. 

581
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:50,040
So if you think of those three, 
what are the main differences 

582
00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:53,840
from a developer perspective 
building on on sui and on move? 

583
00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:01,000
So SUI is not account based, 
whereas Solana and EVM is. 

584
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,720
SUI is strongly typed in terms 
of dealing with strongly typed 

585
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,920
objects where everything else 
doesn't really solve that 

586
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:14,080
problem for you. 
The programming paradigm allows 

587
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,680
you for parallel execution 
natively, which it doesn't give 

588
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,760
you for wanna nor does it give 
you for EVM. 

589
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,400
Well, Solana's actually better 
than EVM from programming 

590
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,280
perspective, right? 
But still doesn't give you the 

591
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,520
same kind of safeties that move 
that's fundamentally built, 

592
00:28:27,760 --> 00:28:34,560
purpose built for for assets 
give you the developer journey 

593
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,320
is a lot easier. 
I mean, people make a lot of 

594
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,320
noise by chewing glass as though
that's a good thing, right? 

595
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:41,920
It's actually a bad thing. 
People are learning move very, 

596
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,640
very quickly. 
They're we're saying up to four 

597
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:45,760
days. 
People are picking it up and 

598
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:49,600
become quite adept to writing 
interest, actually interesting 

599
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,240
applications very, very quickly.
From a dev X perspective, the 

600
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:56,920
fact that you've got primitives 
baked into the layer one, for 

601
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:58,720
example, randomness is baked 
into layer one. 

602
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:03,760
You don't need an Oracle for it.
Zero knowledge proof are baked 

603
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,120
into the layer 1. 
So you don't need like any of 

604
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:10,680
your mechanism for that. 
The ability to verify people's 

605
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,640
identity directly is on chain 
with Zika login done in a very 

606
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:17,520
private in a very private way 
can be done directly on chain 

607
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,360
only for off chain oracles or 
off chain third party 

608
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:22,240
middleware. 
So we come from the perspective 

609
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,760
of you provide as much 
functionality in the base layer 

610
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,760
so developers can compose and 
build things that are 

611
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,640
interesting rather than counting
on 3rd party integrations to 

612
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,520
make that work. 
So I think from that 

613
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,440
perspective, you can build more 
interesting, more engaging 

614
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,000
businesses on Sweden, you can on
Solana or East. 

615
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,000
Now Swede, of course, is the 
youngest of all these chains. 

616
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,640
It's only been around for two 
years. 

617
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:42,840
So there's some catching up to 
do. 

618
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,520
But I think Swede is doing 
relatively well. 

619
00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,440
If you had to benchmark where 
Solana started his journey and 

620
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,240
where, where it was in two 
years, where Swede is and in two

621
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,400
years it's a, it's a, it's a 
there's an ocean device for how 

622
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,640
we've performed versus of the 
change in our timeframe. 

623
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:02,320
Let's talk about the consensus. 
So how does how does that work 

624
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,360
and how are you guys able to 
achieve, you know, such low 

625
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:07,120
latency and such high 
throughput? 

626
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,720
Well I'm not a world expert in 
content as myself but my Co 

627
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,440
founders are and so is the 
engineering team. 

628
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:14,720
But I can talk about it from a 
high level perspective. 

629
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,360
So we've been able to build what
what is called a DAG based 

630
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,440
consensus scheme. 
In fact, it probably the first 

631
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,200
DAG based consensus scheme that 
people fully understand and can 

632
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,920
teach us at college. 
So some colleges, some Ivy 

633
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:30,440
League colleague is actually 
teaching it as part of their 

634
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:33,520
distributed systems courses now,
because you can actually make 

635
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,000
sense of it. 
So it's fully understandable. 

636
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,360
So this DAG based consensus 
scheme reduces the amount of 

637
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:40,960
verification. 
It's a verify is a non verified 

638
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:48,480
DAG, which means you do not need
to verify the the steps in each 

639
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:51,520
transitioning of a DAG over 
time. 

640
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,040
You get that verification by 
proxy of getting enough 

641
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,600
signatures rather than have to 
do the verification upfront. 

642
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,080
What that means as well is it 
reduces the amount of round 

643
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,240
trips you need to do before you 
get certainty on the 

644
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,400
transaction. 
So that reduction in the amount 

645
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,960
of round trips you need to do to
get certainty on the transaction

646
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,960
reduces latency. 
So Swede's by far the lowest 

647
00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:12,440
latency chain when it comes to 
actual finality. 

648
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,560
I'm not talking about block 
times because block times are 

649
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,280
numbers like to make up all the 
time. 

650
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,720
It there's no resemblance to 
what finality really is. 

651
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,880
And I'm not talking about 
optimistic transact finality 

652
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,440
because if you want to go there,
Sweeze like 20 seconds 

653
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,520
optimistic finality, 20 
milliseconds optimistic 

654
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,720
finality. 
But who cares? 

655
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,000
That doesn't matter. 
What you care about is from when

656
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,560
I click a button, when is it 
final? 

657
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,560
When is it irreversible from a 
finality standpoint. 

658
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,520
And from that perspective, Swee 
again is the lowest latency 

659
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:37,920
chain from that perspective as 
well. 

660
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,880
So that gives us a big advantage
over all the chains. 

661
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,640
Separately, the DAG based 
consensus, we take advantage of 

662
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,840
it for ensuring transactions are
done as quickly as possible. 

663
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:54,200
It gives us the robustness that 
we have the, you know, 12 + 1. 

664
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:56,680
Number of others agree. 
I mean, it kind of faults. 

665
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:01,280
So it gives us a kind of speed 
that has never been seen before.

666
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,840
I mean, we already had a very 
fast consensus scheme with 

667
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,520
Narwhal and Bullshock when we 
went to mainland and the goal 

668
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:07,800
was always to get faster and 
faster. 

669
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,440
We'll see what the key team 
comes out with next. 

670
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,200
It's hard to imagine something 
faster, but it's actually a 

671
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,840
Mississippi Version 2 coming out
soon that would reduce latency 

672
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,280
even lower to what we have to 
do. 

673
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,360
Do you feel, I mean, so you 
mentioned 297 K transactions a 

674
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:28,200
second, that's kind of like 
token sense or does it include 

675
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,160
like smart contract 
transactions? 

676
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,560
So those are just peer-to-peer 
transactions. 

677
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,080
So if you want to do a pay, 
those are like payments if 

678
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,520
you're doing payments. 
So if you want to do smart 

679
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,920
contracts from DAC and it 
depends on what small contract 

680
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:41,680
you're executing. 
But again, Swee is 

681
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,120
parallelizable, so you can do 
many things in parallel. 

682
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,320
What another thing that to bring
up is Swee has this unique 

683
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,840
feature called PTPS, which is 
programmable transaction blocks.

684
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,520
So I can atomically conjure up 
1000 and 1024 transactions 

685
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,800
together. 
And what I mean by that is 

686
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,920
individual transactions. 
Let's say for example, I want to

687
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,880
do a trading strategy where I 
take a flash loan, take that, 

688
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,680
proceed, put it into a lending 
pool, take instantly a borrow 

689
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,640
out of our lending pool, put 
into a defy trade, take 

690
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,840
advantage of an ARB, settle that
back with my lending pool and 

691
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,920
back again. 
In the normal chain, either 

692
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:19,800
independent transactors, you 
have to do 1 by 1. 

693
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:23,120
All you need to craft a smart 
contract that specific path. 

694
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,000
As we know everything is 
dynamic, the paths not always 

695
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,000
fixed and you want to be able to
make decisions with off chain 

696
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,760
data at times as well. 
With SWEET, you can craft up to 

697
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,520
1024 heterogeneous transactions 
together and execute them 

698
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,680
atomically instantly within 300 
milliseconds. 

699
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:43,160
So that's another game changer. 
So if you are a market maker, I 

700
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,800
mean you're, you're trading on D
book, which is a central limit 

701
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:49,200
order book, You're holding 500 
positions across D book and you 

702
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:51,320
need to rebalance those 
positions or move them to 

703
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,000
different pricing point. 
You can execute that movement of

704
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:57,200
removing the positions and then 
recording them in a different 

705
00:33:57,200 --> 00:33:58,920
price point with a single 
transaction. 

706
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,600
You cannot do that anywhere else
in the world, right? 

707
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,720
You can't even do that on 
centralized stacks in an atomic 

708
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:06,840
way. 
Whereas SUI you've given that 

709
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,719
atomic atomicity where you can 
submit all your cancels and all 

710
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,560
your new bids instantly with a 
single transaction batch. 

711
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,719
And that's something you can't 
do on Seoul ETH or any other 

712
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:17,639
change. 
You can't even do that on a 

713
00:34:17,639 --> 00:34:21,120
NASDAQ, quite frankly. 
So that's a superpower that SUI 

714
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,280
has that I think starts to bear 
the question as to you know, I, 

715
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,400
I, we believe that majority of 
trades in the future will happen

716
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:29,800
on chain as long as the stacks 
take can take care of a 

717
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:31,280
bandwidth. 
Yeah. 

718
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,400
I mean, it sounds honestly, it 
sounds like from the kind of 

719
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:36,400
scalability you guys already 
have. 

720
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,719
Do you think is, is that mostly 
soft or do you, do you expect 

721
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,280
that? 
I mean, I guess it depends a 

722
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,280
lot, right, how things play out.
But do you expect that has to 

723
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,360
scale still a lot more for you 
sort of eventually? 

724
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:53,639
The next step for us will be 
launching what we're calling 

725
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:56,600
Ramura, which is our skill, 
skill infrastructure. 

726
00:34:56,639 --> 00:34:59,320
Again, that let's you go 
horizontal, you add more 

727
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:01,600
hardware, you scale as honestly 
we're not a capacity yet. 

728
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,720
So there's no real need to 
release that release that right 

729
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:06,920
away. 
But 3 has a solution for 

730
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,960
horizontal scalability. 
The only thing we're going to 

731
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,240
keep doing is just optimizing 
the single compute unit for the 

732
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,240
computer, right? 
You make that more and more 

733
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:14,680
optimized over time. 
We've already got the 

734
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:16,320
scalability from horizontal 
perspective. 

735
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,360
Other chains do not have that. 
Other chains will talk about 

736
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:20,880
sharding. 
Then you lose atomicity and 

737
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,800
there's no composability across 
shards. 

738
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,600
And people have a tough time 
writing two face commit 

739
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:27,240
algorithms, right? 
How they going to even solve 

740
00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:29,480
that atomicity issue when it 
comes to shards? 

741
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,800
I, I think they, they're really 
and they're promising something 

742
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,760
that they can't deliver on. 
So from our perspective, we 

743
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,960
already have the scalability 
solution. 

744
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,800
What we want to keep doing is 
working on how do we get the 

745
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,800
most performance out of our 
virtual machines possible. 

746
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:45,400
There are lots of things we can 
do around the move VM to make it

747
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,520
even more efficient than it is 
today, but that's not the 

748
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,560
bottleneck at this point in 
time. 

749
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,520
So right now it's really just 
keep on shipping more 

750
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,200
functionality to make it the 
best place for desk to build. 

751
00:35:56,160 --> 00:35:59,560
Let's talk a little bit about 
Mevi think there's like very 

752
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,440
different opinions on, you know,
what is MEV? 

753
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:07,400
You know, is it something change
should try to prevent or and you

754
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,080
know, we've also had different 
architectures, right? 

755
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,440
There are many chains, the 
validators build the blocks. 

756
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,040
Ethereum of course, most 
importantly has separated it out

757
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:23,800
right with having proposers and 
builders and having those roles 

758
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,240
separated. 
Like how do you think about MEB 

759
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:32,120
and like how does MEB work today
in Sui? 

760
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,880
Yeah, I mean, the idea that 
somebody can put a transaction 

761
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,080
ahead of me knowing. 
Knowing for what? 

762
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,040
I'm giving them information to 
train on my behalf, and they're 

763
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,080
using that information to rob me
blind, I don't know how people 

764
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,040
justify that as a good thing. 
I'm sorry. 

765
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:50,320
I don't care what chain you are 
or what kind of school of 

766
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,640
economy should come from. 
That's just wrong, right? 

767
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,280
You can always say that's 
somewhat illegal for a large 

768
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,000
extent using some information. 
I'm giving you the front run me 

769
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:01,000
and it screw me on price and say
OK, well it's MEV so it must be 

770
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:02,600
OK. 
Sorry, that doesn't make sense 

771
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,120
Swee. 
Now MEV is not impossible in any

772
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,880
infrastructure, but with SWEE it
it's very it's almost impossible

773
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,880
to make money doing MEV on Swee,
especially in a deterministic 

774
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,160
way, right? 
We do have some schemes on Swee 

775
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:20,840
and projects on Swee that are 
making Med more client friendly.

776
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:24,640
Namely if there's an opportunity
to do any term of MEV, the 

777
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,880
rewards go directly to those who
are participating in the 

778
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,920
ecosystem, namely token holders,
the trader directly. 

779
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,400
These are happening. 
So they're like fast paths to 

780
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,480
execute trades really quickly 
that are happening right now on 

781
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,560
suite. 
But MEV is an area that we're 

782
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,200
very passionate about, but to 
the point where we would rather 

783
00:37:41,200 --> 00:37:43,920
shift the fate the, the 
direction in the hands of those 

784
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:46,560
do are doing the trades 
themselves, not in some kind of 

785
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,600
minor that's going to extract 
value from consumer experience. 

786
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,200
I think about about it, right? 
I put in $50.00. 

787
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,240
I expected to get $50.00 in 
Bitcoin, but I get $48. 

788
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,320
That's all right. 
I don't know how you could ever 

789
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,400
argue that that's a right thing 
to do in any world, right? 

790
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,280
In a world where I put in $50.00
and I get 50 back, that's what 

791
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:06,760
we want to be in. 
But also maybe if I get 51 

792
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,000
because I'm able to take, take 
advantage of some other 

793
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,200
opportunity elsewhere in some 
pool due to some arbitrage, 

794
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,040
that's actually a positive from 
a consumer perspective. 

795
00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:17,520
And I'd always be in the side of
a consumer rather than the 

796
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,840
miners. 
Yeah, yeah, for sure. 

797
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,720
I mean, it is interesting how, 
you know, in the beginning, 

798
00:38:22,720 --> 00:38:25,120
right, when the whole MEV 
concept came up, you know, 

799
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,920
people were like, oh, this is 
really bad. 

800
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,880
And and then I think in 
Ethereum, right, it's switched 

801
00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,840
so quickly to like, OK, that's 
that's just the norm. 

802
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,640
And you know, everyone gets 
extracted to the maximum 

803
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,600
possible. 
The problem is sweet so fast 

804
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,840
that it's very hard to do right.
So when you have a chain is very

805
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:52,680
slow like like ETH or even Seoul
where you know there's a lot of 

806
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,000
opportunity for Med on Seoul, 
right? 

807
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,920
Because of the architecture, you
don't have the opportunities on 

808
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,440
sweet. 
So it's very, very hard problem 

809
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:01,920
to solve for sweet. 
Namely if you do make it 

810
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:03,800
possible, you want to make sure 
it's tipped in the favour and 

811
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:06,400
balance of those who are 
actually doing the trades, not 

812
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,160
some arbitrary member. 
So we actually think it's a 

813
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,760
problem that you want to index 
on solving in some way. 

814
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:14,440
At least if you're going to 
solve it, you solve it in the 

815
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,720
direction of consumers rather 
than, you know, fee fee how 

816
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,680
they're still allowed to agree. 
So, but the way today this might

817
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,040
work is that, you know, a 
validator, they get their 

818
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,920
transactions and then they still
maybe plug into some sort of API

819
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,920
with some kind of, you know, MEB
company builder. 

820
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:35,880
And then they do some sort of 
transaction insertion or 

821
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:40,200
reorganization, which obviously 
would be much harder if you have

822
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,360
less time for sure. 
But is is that the kind of the 

823
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:46,600
main way something like this 
gets prevented? 

824
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,680
So there are a number of ways. 
I'm not a MEV expert, so it was 

825
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,640
probably worthwhile getting Sam 
or the call to talk more about 

826
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:55,840
the intrinsic grade that we've 
built these protections. 

827
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,960
They're actually two different 
applicants, They're two 

828
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:02,560
different providers that are 
vying to solve this problem. 

829
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,640
One with a validation validated 
integration 1 is simply just 

830
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:08,720
some on chain integration that 
doesn't require the validated 

831
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,360
upgrades. 
So the two directions that 

832
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:12,760
people are taking towards this, 
but both are taking the approach

833
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,120
of. 
Value must be given to token 

834
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,920
holders, others who are trading 
rather than those who are from 

835
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,360
extra value. 
But intricacies of how it really

836
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,960
works is beyond my level 
expertise of the rain expertise,

837
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,560
yeah. 
Well, let's talk a little bit 

838
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,880
about some of the areas that you
guys are focusing on. 

839
00:40:29,880 --> 00:40:37,760
So I mean, one is gaming, right?
Gaming has been, I'd say, kind 

840
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:41,840
of a topic like crypto gaming, 
right, has been something that's

841
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,120
been for many years has 
something people felt like, oh, 

842
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:51,280
that's a lot of potential there.
I think the main, the main 

843
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,120
reason for it I often heard was 
like, well, maybe games have 

844
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,160
assets and then people don't 
really own those assets in the 

845
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:00,880
games. 
And maybe it'd be nice if people

846
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,680
actually owned them and maybe 
they could like, you know, use 

847
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:06,680
them, use them somewhere else. 
So like what? 

848
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:13,720
What do you feel like is the the
case for having gaming on chain?

849
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,760
Yeah. 
So I'm not a believer that says 

850
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,560
games have to be on chain. 
I think I'm a believer that 

851
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,400
games just need to be more fun. 
And the games that always 

852
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,240
historically do well are the 
ones that can keep the user base

853
00:41:26,240 --> 00:41:29,280
engaged for as long as possible.
I can keep increasing the user 

854
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:34,560
base for franchise SO3 or 
technologies that get involved 

855
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,560
in gaming needs to solve that 
problem. 

856
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,040
So the partners we're working 
with are massive, are large in 

857
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,840
scale, and we've been able to 
convince them that their 

858
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,720
business model is way more 
sustainable using Swee as a 

859
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:48,160
chain. 
Some of these games don't have 

860
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,040
to be on chain. 
Maybe Sweeze used for the App 

861
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:54,760
Store concept of selling in game
assets or it's used for 

862
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:58,800
registering entitlements or 
rewards or it's used for token 

863
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:03,000
gating, access a specific 
content or use as a mechanism to

864
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:06,040
build an incentive scheme that 
lasts the test of time. 

865
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,280
So our work with game studios 
are along those lines. 

866
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,000
We actually launched a games 
console called Three Players X1,

867
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,680
which were announced last year 
and it's actually going to be 

868
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:17,520
shipping this summer. 
It's sold out as a result of the

869
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:19,440
work that team's done really 
good work by the team. 

870
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:22,880
But beyond that is there's a 
game of process called the 

871
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,320
Platon OS that's going to power 
the future of games. 

872
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:28,200
So this operating system you can
do boot your windows machine. 

873
00:42:28,440 --> 00:42:31,560
It runs on a steam deck or runs 
on sweet plays X1 anywhere you 

874
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,400
want to. 
You want to play steam, Epic or 

875
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,040
web three games. 
You don't have to make a 

876
00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:36,520
decision between platforms 
anymore. 

877
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,400
It'll run all those games for 
you and then with that comes 

878
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,440
with a deep integration with 
Sweet with ZK login. 

879
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,640
So just by logging into a normal
account, you now have a wallet 

880
00:42:44,640 --> 00:42:46,360
in the back end. 
We don't even call it a wallet 

881
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,880
and you start to earn rewards 
for playing any Web 2 or Web 

882
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,040
three games in addition to, to 
be given rewards for or at least

883
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:55,040
discounts. 
We have to buy games because 

884
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:57,080
they find a there's a 
correlation between people who 

885
00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,360
play War of Warcraft versus some
other game. 

886
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:01,360
If we give them a discount, 
maybe they're more likely to 

887
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:03,840
play our game, right? 
So the ability to engage and 

888
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,680
acquire users much more 
frictionlessly is going to be 

889
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,800
what Web 3 powers? 
And these are kind of 

890
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,720
investments we make. 
We're more betting on big items,

891
00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:15,560
long term things that can make 
impact from a business 

892
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:17,560
perspective, not the hype stuff,
right? 

893
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:21,040
I think mass majority of games 
have been around in crypto, so I

894
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,240
always say our spreadsheets or 
things that are built by 

895
00:43:24,240 --> 00:43:27,280
accountants that pretend to be 
games rather than hardcore games

896
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:29,520
that people find fun and a part 
of. 

897
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:31,800
We work with a build games that 
have grossed billions of dollars

898
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:34,560
a year in revenue and they know 
how to build fun and engaging 

899
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:36,480
games. 
The web three element is an aid 

900
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:40,080
to make the game experience way 
more compelling than a way to 

901
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:44,080
extract value by overcharging on
NFTS or putting some element of 

902
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,000
token gate in there. 
That doesn't make any sense. 

903
00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:51,280
So yeah, that's our thesis over.
And what was the I'm curious 

904
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:57,360
about the sui play the to the 
console you guys are coming out 

905
00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:00,160
with what was like? 
What's the thing behind it and 

906
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:03,920
and how does it work? 
So the three players are Quan is

907
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,680
a very is a highly powered hand 
held gaming device that got 

908
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,200
great battery life, great 
screen, great graphics card and 

909
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:15,600
lets you play your PC games 
wherever you are portable. 

910
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:18,760
It'll play your games in your 
steam deck. 

911
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,560
It'll play your epic games. 
It would also play web free 

912
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:24,480
games because it has its own App
Store. 

913
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:27,000
Typically you happen to choose 
between 1 device or another. 

914
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,800
Now with A3 player device 1 
device does all that for you in 

915
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,000
a single unit. 
Chief of that is the fact that 

916
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,160
it's a web 3 integration right? 
So whether you're playing a web 

917
00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:37,520
2 game web three-game, it 
doesn't matter. 

918
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,080
We don't even call it out. 
Where's the web 2 web 

919
00:44:39,080 --> 00:44:41,360
three-game? 
These are games and now you have

920
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:44,560
a single device from a utility 
perspective that will reward you

921
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:45,720
based on whatever games you 
play. 

922
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,080
It doesn't really throw web 3 in
your face. 

923
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,440
You get to own your asset by 
your account that you create on 

924
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,800
on the system and you don't need
to worry about wallets. 

925
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,320
The payments will be by 
stablecoins and you don't have 

926
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:58,880
to be overcharged with the 
credit card fees that people 

927
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,080
bill you on the element. 
The the thought process is in 

928
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,600
fact, if you launch your game on
a sweeper X1 from an App Store 

929
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,240
perspective, you wouldn't have 
to pay those fees, those high 

930
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:10,000
fees that app stores charge you.
And that means those fee, that 

931
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,800
money you saved as a game 
studio, can go back into 

932
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,400
building a better game or 
rewarding the users with better 

933
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,720
incentives to keep playing. 
Right. 

934
00:45:16,720 --> 00:45:18,280
OK. 
So basically from a user 

935
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:22,520
perspective, I can kind of buy 
this thing and it's a it's a 

936
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,560
good gaming console anyway and I
can play my existing games. 

937
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:30,400
But then they can also be more 
like blockchain games that have 

938
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,000
maybe their own tokenomics and 
incentives and stuff. 

939
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,120
And then from a developer 
perspective, it just makes it 

940
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:41,080
easy to develop those games and 
then get distribution through 

941
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:43,320
everyone who has the console. 
Correct. 

942
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,880
I remember this operating system
will get installed on PCs, set 

943
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:49,760
up boxes, you name it. 
So everywhere they go, they're 

944
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:52,200
countless with them. 
So it's a distribution play. 

945
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,920
We want to be everywhere and 
within. 

946
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,120
By 2030, most gamers will have a
wallet in some form. 

947
00:45:57,120 --> 00:45:58,680
We think that wallet will be 
Ezekiel login. 

948
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,400
Wallet was sweet. 
Cool, how many of the devices 

949
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:05,040
have been ordered? 
We only made 10,000 to get it 

950
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,480
started and that's already sold 
out. 

951
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,320
We we have other manufacturers 
who want to build a sweet play 

952
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:12,400
device for their own user base 
and things like that, which is 

953
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,040
exciting. 
Cool, cool, very cool. 

954
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:19,120
So you mentioned the other two 
big categories is like finance 

955
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,920
and commerce. 
I mean D5 of course is the thing

956
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,080
that you know, I would say the 
thing that crypto has actually 

957
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:32,600
nailed the best so far. 
How does the SUV D5 ecosystem? 

958
00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:35,600
How does it compare with others?
Yeah. 

959
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:40,080
I mean, Swedes 6th largest 
chain, probably top five chain 

960
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:45,240
when it comes to D5 volumes and 
in the top 10 firmly in terms of

961
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:48,080
TBL. 
So Swedes are already showing 

962
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:51,400
marks put a market fit in the 
areas of D5 transaction volumes.

963
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:55,640
In fact, one of the top 4 Dexes 
in all of our threes are Swede X

964
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,240
already. 
So that's already exciting from 

965
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:00,880
a growth perspective. 
One of the areas of focus for us

966
00:47:00,880 --> 00:47:03,560
right now is actually BTC 5. 
We want to be the chain that 

967
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:05,800
brings utility from a ton of 
Bitcoiners. 

968
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:09,240
That's exemplified by a 
partnership with Isha, who's 

969
00:47:09,240 --> 00:47:11,360
going to be launching this 
scheme that lets you control 

970
00:47:11,360 --> 00:47:13,720
your Bitcoin assets on Swede 
without ever having to use 

971
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,640
bridges. 
And more than 10% of the TDL on 

972
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:19,080
Swede has gone very quickly to 
Bitcoin. 

973
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:20,560
That's only going to grow over 
time as well. 

974
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,840
So our focus is really to grow 
the financial ecosystem. 

975
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:25,560
We have stablecoins. 
We have something that for 

976
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:27,880
stable coins on Swede, we're 
going to be adding another 

977
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,000
that'll be announcing at base 
camp. 

978
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,800
Separately from that as well, 
there is more opportunities to 

979
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,160
onboard other currencies into 
Swede that we're looking at. 

980
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:42,600
We think FX trades will be a 
massive volume driver for Defy 

981
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,800
and Swede, especially if you're 
thinking about, you know, JPY, 

982
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,880
you're thinking about you know, 
euro dollar baskets as well. 

983
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,240
There's an opportunity for us 
there and I think Swede is going

984
00:47:52,240 --> 00:47:55,760
to do really, really well when 
it comes to FX trades. 

985
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:57,640
The carrier trade is going to be
real. 

986
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:04,160
And then when you think of 
commerce, do you think I, I 

987
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,040
guess payments is 1 aspect, 
right? 

988
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,520
So maybe stable containments? 
Are there other things that you 

989
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,120
see there the. 
Whole thing, it's like the 

990
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:16,040
ability to pay, send and receive
payments, the ability to make 

991
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,920
bulk transactions on behalf of 
your user base, and the ability 

992
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:23,760
to reward your user base and 
keep them engaged with reward 

993
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:27,880
systems, incentive systems, the 
ability to acquire users, target

994
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,680
users, reward users. 
All those things are an element 

995
00:48:30,680 --> 00:48:32,120
of commerce. 
I think block chains, 

996
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,040
unfortunate. 
Well, fortunately, we'll do way 

997
00:48:34,040 --> 00:48:36,960
better than traditional ads. 
I think the ad business of just 

998
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:39,520
like paint and spraying, 
especially with the session 

999
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,280
cookie being gone, is going to 
falter. 

1000
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,480
I think blockchains and wallets 
and the idea of like entitlement

1001
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,360
systems are going to be what you
build ad businesses or ad 

1002
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:50,080
networks off the back of moving 
forward. 

1003
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,040
It's the element of shifting the
balance into the favour of the 

1004
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:55,360
consumer and taken away from 
centralized systems. 

1005
00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:57,920
Actually, it's better from a 
business perspective, right? 

1006
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,520
The ad spend you'd make might be
higher, but the cumulative 

1007
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,000
rewards you get out of that ad 
spend would be better because 

1008
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,040
it's a better targeted audience 
than this prayer process that 

1009
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:12,280
you do today. 
And recently you guys launched 

1010
00:49:12,280 --> 00:49:15,720
Walrus, which has gotten also 
like lots of attention and you 

1011
00:49:15,720 --> 00:49:18,280
know, it's a very interesting 
like what's, what's the vision 

1012
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,400
for Walrus? 
Yeah, I made the point yesterday

1013
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,920
that in three, in two years, 
Missing Lives has launched 3 

1014
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:27,280
unicorns, Waras being one of 
them, Deeper being one of them. 

1015
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,320
And of course, Swee Waras is a 
global storage layer. 

1016
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:32,720
I mean, one of the feedback we 
heard from a lot of developers 

1017
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:35,960
is, by the way, Swee is about 
100 times cheaper to store data 

1018
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,440
than Seoul and about 2000 times 
cheaper to store data than the 

1019
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:41,280
ETH. 
But still, it's too expensive, 

1020
00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:42,280
right? 
Because you've got this 

1021
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:44,720
replication factor. 
You're storing data on each 

1022
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:46,880
validator, and then you're 
multiplying that. 

1023
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:49,120
So if you're storing Amazon, 
maybe you're paying three to 4X 

1024
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,000
replication if someone's where 
you're paying 100 X replication,

1025
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:55,120
which makes no sense, right? 
So you might have just one MB, 2

1026
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:57,640
megabytes, fine, you have it 
there forever, no problem. 

1027
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,000
But if you want to start storing
gigabytes, it's called petabytes

1028
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,120
of data. 
You only really have our weave 

1029
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,400
that makes you pay 100 years in 
advance of data, which makes no 

1030
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,200
sense. 
Or you have file coin that 

1031
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:07,600
doesn't really give you the 
guarantees you want. 

1032
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,560
That's very, very slow in terms 
of downloads. 

1033
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,960
There's no real solution for 
fully decentralizing your front 

1034
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:16,040
and the back end. 
So we built Walrus specifically 

1035
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,800
to solve that problem that we're
hearing from developers now. 

1036
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,000
You have a fully programmable 
storage layer that lets you 

1037
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,680
store petabytes and gigabytes of
data for dirt cheap. 

1038
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,520
It's comparable to Amazon in 
terms of pricing. 

1039
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,200
Way more distributed, way more 
decentralized, way more 

1040
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,240
resilient to faults. 
And you know, your files are 

1041
00:50:33,240 --> 00:50:36,480
broken up using a Redshift 
algorithm that effectively 

1042
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:40,080
splits them into billions of 
fragments across hundreds and of

1043
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:43,680
thousands of of services. 
You only need to contact, you 

1044
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,920
know, 2, you know, 1/3 to 2/3 of
those machines to get your data 

1045
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,480
at any given time. 
So it's actually a third of 

1046
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,760
those machines to get your data.
So even if 2/3 of a network is 

1047
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:54,040
down, you can still access your 
files. 

1048
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,080
You don't get that kind of 
resilience with any service 

1049
00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:00,000
provider that exists today. 
So This Is Us taking what people

1050
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,600
expect from centralized services
and making it possible on 

1051
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,120
decentralized services. 
And Wars by far is the most 

1052
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:09,480
scalable, fastest and most 
programmable, programmable way 

1053
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:12,160
of storing data. 
And what's coming for Wars next 

1054
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,520
is Seal, which is a scheme that 
lets you encrypt and decrypt 

1055
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,320
files fully decentralized. 
So I can use my Google account 

1056
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:22,160
to encrypt my files and it's all
done fully in a decentralized 

1057
00:51:22,160 --> 00:51:24,200
way. 
I can try, I can give you access

1058
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,560
to the file to see it. 
I can get access to content 

1059
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:30,120
that's saying if you pay me five
$350.00 or you know, one 

1060
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,080
Bitcoin, you can gain access to 
data. 

1061
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,000
Now you can. 
That programmability aspect 

1062
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:36,800
becomes very, very critical. 
You can do all that 

1063
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,720
programmability and get content 
for the first time using fully 

1064
00:51:41,720 --> 00:51:45,640
decentralized schemes. 
Yeah, that's super cool. 

1065
00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:50,080
So it like basically, I mean, 
one thing is OK, it it competes 

1066
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,360
or it can be a better 
alternative to things like 5 

1067
00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,640
coin things like our reef, 
right, that, you know, you have 

1068
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,080
gotten some traction, but pretty
limited, right? 

1069
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,920
Because I think they're also 
still pretty limited in terms of

1070
00:52:03,800 --> 00:52:06,600
yeah, like cost is still high, 
right? 

1071
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,520
And and performance. 
So there's that. 

1072
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:15,360
And then the thing of like 
having your entire application 

1073
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:18,840
on chain, right? 
So I mean, you mentioned the 

1074
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:21,560
example of diagnosis safe in the
Bibe attack, right? 

1075
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,680
Where basically the issue, one 
of the huge issue. 

1076
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:28,080
I mean, there was a famous 
article known by Moxie 

1077
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,560
Mullinspike, the Signal creator,
right? 

1078
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,480
Where he was like, hey, this 
blockchain thing is kind of 

1079
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:37,480
bullshit because you have the 
smart contract thing that's like

1080
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:41,120
on chain and verifiable and then
people interact with it through 

1081
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:44,000
these web applications where 
they have no control over. 

1082
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:45,840
He is spot on. 
He was spot on. 

1083
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,040
That's exactly it, right? 
You build this amazing, you 

1084
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,600
know, you're waving the arms. 
Oh, it's all smart contracts and

1085
00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:52,720
whatever and how do you access 
it? 

1086
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,120
Some third party website API 
that has been hacked, that was 

1087
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,200
hacked and people knew it was 
hacked for quite a while 

1088
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,560
actually. 
And you know, this has happened 

1089
00:53:00,560 --> 00:53:04,360
all over in Web 3, whereas now 
with Walrus, you can get a 

1090
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:07,160
guarantee that the package or 
the website you're engaging with

1091
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,440
is what the developer intended 
for it to be. 

1092
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,400
And you cannot have the 
subversion of someone injecting 

1093
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,440
something where it's not, it's, 
it's not possible anymore. 

1094
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:19,920
So I, I think that element of 
security that what Walrus brings

1095
00:53:20,240 --> 00:53:22,360
is going to take wars beyond web
three. 

1096
00:53:23,280 --> 00:53:25,400
Think about cybersecurity, think
about government, right? 

1097
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:29,040
Think about banking, think about
all the use cases where knowing 

1098
00:53:29,040 --> 00:53:30,880
what you're dealing with, 
knowing what you're engaging 

1099
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:33,400
with is very, very critical. 
And you want to protect the user

1100
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,200
funds, the user data, user 
information. 

1101
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,240
Wars is only going to let you do
that in a fully permissionless 

1102
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:42,680
way and fully programmatic way. 
So that's a scheme that I think 

1103
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,040
is going to be critical for the 
future. 

1104
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:46,920
This is why, like I'm very 
bullish on the future of WARS 

1105
00:53:46,920 --> 00:53:50,720
because it solves the boundary 
transparency issue. 

1106
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:55,080
At the same time, it's a 
programmable storage layer where

1107
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:58,040
you can build arbitrary rules as
to what accesses content or what

1108
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:01,520
can update content, and that 
rule can be fully transparent to

1109
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:03,920
the world. 
That's a level of security that 

1110
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:07,880
you do not get when you try to 
build something on AWS or GCP. 

1111
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:12,120
It's just not possible. 
And then you also mentioned that

1112
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:16,000
Nautilus, can you walk us 
through that as well? 

1113
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,360
Yeah. 
So one of the next things we 

1114
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,280
heard of the global feedback 
was, hey, we've got storage, 

1115
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:23,880
we've got compute. 
I mean, we've got compute by 

1116
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:26,000
smart contracts, right? 
We've got the ability to run our

1117
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:28,640
whole front end, but the things 
that we want to do off chain 

1118
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:31,280
that we can't get certain 
guarantees on chain about. 

1119
00:54:31,480 --> 00:54:34,760
For example, if I want to do 
oracles, right for data that 

1120
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,440
that don't exist today, for 
example, I want to know what 

1121
00:54:37,440 --> 00:54:41,320
burgers cost in Missouri, right?
Like maybe who knows what use 

1122
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:43,200
case it is, right? 
I have no way to verify that 

1123
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:47,640
steam or verify that data. 
Well, with probably the worst 

1124
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,360
example burgers in Missouri, 
they're multiple. 

1125
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,360
But if you want to verify some 
computation that's happened on 

1126
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:59,080
chain and of happened off chain,
but uses more contact to verify 

1127
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,480
that that competition happened 
correctly, you're very stuck 

1128
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,040
with options that exist today, 
right? 

1129
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:06,240
You don't need to pay a lot of 
money to an Oracle service to 

1130
00:55:06,280 --> 00:55:07,800
provide that data at a great 
cost. 

1131
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,120
There's no way for you to do 
something yourself to make that 

1132
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:13,960
verification possible. 
So what Northless gives you is 

1133
00:55:13,960 --> 00:55:18,400
the ability to use Trusted 
Execution environments or TE ES 

1134
00:55:18,800 --> 00:55:21,040
to do that computation. 
Right now, Amazon Nitro, 

1135
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:22,440
there'll be other enclaves over 
time. 

1136
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,840
It could do that computation and
you can submit that attestation 

1137
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,640
that the enclave will give you 
directly to smart contract on 

1138
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:29,880
suite. 
And it can give you that. 

1139
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,000
It can verify that computation 
happen correctly and proceed 

1140
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:34,440
install the data directly on 
suite. 

1141
00:55:34,600 --> 00:55:39,360
So if I want to get a pricing 
feed for, you know, beef in some

1142
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,400
country in the world and do that
in real time, I don't know what 

1143
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,800
the weather is in some part of 
the world and saw that on date 

1144
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:46,040
on chain. 
I want to prove that I've done 

1145
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:49,080
some kind of move in the game 
and then verify that on chain. 

1146
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:52,520
I want to, you know, ensure that
you know, the horse race that 

1147
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:57,080
happened at the other top Derby 
in the world, have the right 

1148
00:55:57,160 --> 00:55:59,120
right winner and I want to 
reward the right person to 

1149
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:01,240
submit the right. 
The set of bets are matter. 

1150
00:56:01,240 --> 00:56:03,880
I can do that directly off chain
and verify that with SWET. 

1151
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:06,080
What it really does, it expands 
the surface area of what you can

1152
00:56:06,080 --> 00:56:09,200
do with off chain data and you 
can bring veracity to off chain 

1153
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,800
data and do that in a fully 
trust and process where we're 

1154
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:13,440
Swede. 
That's what's key. 

1155
00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:17,200
It's the ability to compute 
things off chain, bring the 

1156
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:20,080
attestation that was computed 
off chain and get that verify 

1157
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:24,240
basketball contract in order to 
do amazing to use cases. 

1158
00:56:24,720 --> 00:56:27,200
Right, So you could like as an 
example, right? 

1159
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:31,440
So let's say if I I'm a lending 
protocol and I wanted to use 

1160
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,680
some data, right, some kind of 
credit scoring thing, right? 

1161
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,760
And that could be like, oh, I'm 
going to have this program and 

1162
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:40,960
it's it's, it's on chain, right?
So you can see what the program 

1163
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:45,000
is, but then it's executed in 
Nautilus, maybe locks into my 

1164
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,560
bank, checks some things and 
then and then basically can 

1165
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,160
report some score back on chain 
and and and it also maintains 

1166
00:56:53,160 --> 00:56:55,200
the privacy in this case, right?
Correct. 

1167
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,080
You have a better analogy or a 
better example? 

1168
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:02,000
Now that you should take my job.
You want my burgers and beef? 

1169
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:07,440
Maybe I'm hungrier. 
So I'm curious, so because your,

1170
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,960
your title is like Chief Product
Officer, so you work kind of 

1171
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:14,200
because this is like you work on
those particular products as 

1172
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:20,000
well as kind of the, you know, 
overall chain or or do you focus

1173
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,120
on it kind of also from a SUI as
a product for the end user, SUI 

1174
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:28,480
as a product for developers or 
it's seems like a vast scope. 

1175
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:30,560
All the above, all the above, 
right? 

1176
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,160
Everything from what we do on 
the consumer front to what we do

1177
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,240
on the developer front to the 
platforms we're launching. 

1178
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:39,360
Fortunately, we have a great 
team, right? 

1179
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,320
We have a great team that leads 
all these efforts and I'm here 

1180
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:45,920
as a help and an aid to ensure 
that we unlock decision making 

1181
00:57:45,920 --> 00:57:48,680
as quickly as possible. 
So we've been very blessed with 

1182
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:50,720
to build what I believe is one 
of the strongest team this 

1183
00:57:50,720 --> 00:57:52,600
space. 
That's why we keep executing and

1184
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,360
always delivering all the time. 
It's it's front of a team. 

1185
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:59,680
I can't do it all myself. 
The team is is really over 

1186
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:03,080
delivered in the last two years.
Right. 

1187
00:58:04,280 --> 00:58:08,120
And then so do you guys spin out
some of these things or Walrus 

1188
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:12,000
and they kind of been pursued 
independently or like you, you 

1189
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,040
kind of incubate them and spin 
them out or? 

1190
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,200
Yeah. 
So Swede Foundation is an 

1191
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,200
independent entity for Miston, 
so is the War Foundation. 

1192
00:58:19,200 --> 00:58:22,400
As we know, Wars Foundation 
recently raised by $140 million,

1193
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,440
that's independent of Swede. 
So it operates itself as its own

1194
00:58:25,440 --> 00:58:28,680
mandate, has its own agenda. 
We are here as a technology 

1195
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:32,200
partner to help, to help support
and provide updates and upgrades

1196
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,680
to the network. 
And over time, the goal that 

1197
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,600
other contributors, which is 
already happening with Swee are 

1198
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,200
participating in the improvement
of the protocol over time as 

1199
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:43,120
well. 
So it's, it's, it's not Waris is

1200
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:45,840
not run by Miston, neither is 
Swee run by Miston. 

1201
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:48,800
We're the original creators of 
it, but we're also core 

1202
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,960
contributors to it. 
And the plan always is like you 

1203
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,600
expand the contributor base to 
to Swede and Waris and 

1204
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:56,520
everything else that was 
launched. 

1205
00:58:57,960 --> 00:59:03,360
So when you think of the, the 
road map for SUE, what are the, 

1206
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:05,880
I mean, we mentioned, you know, 
we talked about some of the 

1207
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:08,040
things, right, that you guys are
working on, but what do you see 

1208
00:59:08,040 --> 00:59:10,920
as the most important, you know,
like milestones and things that 

1209
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:13,040
have to be done in the next like
2 years? 

1210
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:19,520
Developer growth and unhealthy 
infatuation with growing 

1211
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:22,280
developer base. 
That's what we're doing now. 

1212
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:26,200
We've got the platform, now 
we've got the dev tools, we have

1213
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:28,640
the storage, we have the 
coordination, we have the 

1214
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:31,640
encryption, we have the option 
verification, whether trading, 

1215
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,800
whether at all. 
Now it's adoption and what 

1216
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:40,000
you're going to see us in an 
unhealthy way, overly indexing 

1217
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,000
on aggressively growing the 
developer base as fast as 

1218
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,840
possible. 
That's going to be what we're 

1219
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:46,720
our passion's going to be for 
the next few years. 

1220
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,360
So that's going to be the 
passionate, I think like we're, 

1221
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,480
we're building the what we 
believe is the new stack for the

1222
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:53,520
Internet. 
Now it's time to go out to sell 

1223
00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,640
it to the world. 
Cool. 

1224
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:58,080
Well, thanks so much for coming 
on. 

1225
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:02,960
And Anita was super great and 
yeah, I'm really excited to see 

1226
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,680
how this plays out. 
I'm curious for people who want 

1227
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,200
to, you know. 
They, I, I think there's 

1228
01:00:11,200 --> 01:00:13,760
probably a lot of our listeners,
you know, they, they know about 

1229
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:17,480
SUE, they've heard of SUE, but 
maybe they haven't played around

1230
01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,520
with it yet. 
They haven't experienced some of

1231
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,960
the things yet. 
What do you think are some of 

1232
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:27,080
the best things that people can,
you know, do to get started and 

1233
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:31,240
to to try it out as a user? 
Yeah, if you're a Phantom Wallet

1234
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,640
user, Phantom is coming out 
soon, so you you can even use in

1235
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:37,360
beta mode now. 
Download the Phantom Wallet and 

1236
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:40,360
get SUI on buy some sui and 
start playing around with 

1237
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:45,040
lending protocols or go to sui 
dot IO and look at the list of 

1238
01:00:45,040 --> 01:00:46,400
wallets. 
We have the sui wallet, we have 

1239
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,200
the surf wallet, the number of 
wallet you can download today. 

1240
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,840
That's it's always the best 
onboarding to start with the 

1241
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:54,080
wallets. 
Even better still, if you don't 

1242
01:00:54,080 --> 01:01:00,120
want to download wallets, go to 
get stashed GETSTASHED dot dot 

1243
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:03,440
com and then you can effectively
sign in with a Google account 

1244
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:05,760
and you instantly have a wallet 
on Sui, you create a username 

1245
01:01:06,000 --> 01:01:08,360
and you can start engaging with 
the chain instantly. 

1246
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:11,120
So we have it all for people to 
start playing with whether your 

1247
01:01:11,120 --> 01:01:14,360
interest is defy your interest 
is casinos, you're interested in

1248
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,320
NFTS, Sui has all that and above
for you, and there's a lot more 

1249
01:01:18,320 --> 01:01:20,880
coming to the ecosystem. 
We we announced A partnership 

1250
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,360
with movie pass the ability to 
soon be able to, you know, buy 

1251
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,840
concert tickets with stable 
coins and start engaging with 

1252
01:01:26,840 --> 01:01:28,720
the movie industry in a lot more
interesting ways. 

1253
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:32,800
We partnered with Eli Gold, who 
is one of the most prominent 

1254
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:37,560
guys when it comes to the horror
movie industry, that that whole 

1255
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:39,640
space of the movies is very 
interesting and we think that's 

1256
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:43,920
going to be greatly changed with
crypto gaming the horror movie. 

1257
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,800
Industry. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1258
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:49,200
Why is that? 
Because now if you imagine the 

1259
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:51,760
problem with movie industry is 
like nobody owns a whole stack 

1260
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:54,760
from the time when you you don't
believe, right? 

1261
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:56,760
Like there's some movies that 
actors are still waiting to be 

1262
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:58,360
paid for, right? 
Right. 

1263
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:00,680
You, you've done a movie 2 years
ago, you still haven't been 

1264
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:01,880
paid. 
Or four years ago, you still 

1265
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,320
haven't been paid. 
No one could do the audit as to 

1266
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,760
how much it grossed, right? 
How many tickets were sold? 

1267
01:02:08,120 --> 01:02:10,680
And how do you dispute disperse 
payment in the way that's 

1268
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:12,400
transparent. 
So now you're going to have a 

1269
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,480
full end to end system where the
movie lovers can fund the 

1270
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:19,000
movies, get to watch the movies 
for free, in addition to sharing

1271
01:02:19,000 --> 01:02:20,920
the upside of the outcomes of 
the movies. 

1272
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:23,320
So it means that everybody's 
guaranteed to be paid, whether 

1273
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:26,360
you're the actor in the movie 
all the way to the person who 

1274
01:02:26,360 --> 01:02:28,800
was killed in the camera, your 
payments would be guaranteed. 

1275
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:31,600
But also you build a closer 
relationship between those who 

1276
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:34,760
love the movies and those who 
actually create the movies, 

1277
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,920
which is always say commerce is 
a key thing is that it's a 

1278
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,240
problem across the world. 
Whether you want a publisher of 

1279
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,560
a game to build a closer 
relationship to the players of 

1280
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,680
the game, whether you want the 
watchers of movies to be closer 

1281
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:49,880
to those who actually the 
movies, That element of like 

1282
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:52,440
brittle building that bridge 
where there are 2,000,000 

1283
01:02:52,440 --> 01:02:54,160
intermediaries that exist today 
is going to be broken. 

1284
01:02:54,160 --> 01:02:56,320
That's what the decentralized 
stock solves for you. 

1285
01:02:57,640 --> 01:02:59,680
Cool. 
Well, thanks so much for coming 

1286
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,680
on and it was really, really 
great and yeah, super exciting 

1287
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:05,800
to talk with you. 
Thanks so much, it was a 

1288
01:03:05,800 --> 01:03:06,160
pleasure.