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This is epicenter episode 214 
with guests, Christopher Fabian,

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and Sean Conway. 
Welcome to epicenter. 

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The shores talks about the 
Technologies project starts, 

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driving decent. 
Elevation and the global 

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blockchain Revolution. 
My name is service language 

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Errol and today I'm doing a show
by myself. 

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Both Brian Mayer were 
unavailable, so I thought I 

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would bring you an episode here 
today about blockchain and 

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humanitarianism. 
It's a topic that we haven't 

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really covered very much. 
I mean a lot of the topics that 

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we have on the show and projects
we have on the show are usually 

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startups or for-profit entities 
or protocol projects. 

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But today we're actually going 
to be talking a lot about 

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humanitarians How blockchain can
help him help in humanitarian 

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projects and who better to have 
as a guest. 

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Then our two guests today Chris 
Fabian who is a lead at UNICEF 

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Ventures and co-founded the 
UNICEF Innovation unit and we'll

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get to talk a lot more to Chris 
about UNICEF Ventures and 

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Innovation unit and the work 
that UNICEF is doing in. 

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Promoting blockchain 
Technologies as a means to 

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improve humanitarian work and 
Sean Conway, who is the founder 

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of the EXO foundation, and EXO 
is an organization that is 

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promoting an operating system 
for data-driven impact, 

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especially in the humanitarian 
space. 

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So, thank you very much for 
coming on, guys. 

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Thanks for having us. 
Great to be him. 

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So, as we often do with our 
guests, we like to still get 

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introduction and learn about 
your background in the space. 

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So, perhaps starting with Chris,
tell us about your background 

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and how you came into your 
current role at UNICEF I came 

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into a totally by accident. 
I come from sort of the world of

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tech startups and making things 
that are really fast pace and I 

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somehow ended up in an austere 
72 year old International 

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bureaucracy. 
But I think that the The work 

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that we work on in our team and 
that I did before, was really 

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about creating the space for new
things that can fix really big 

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problems. 
And so before I was at UNICEF, I

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was in Tanzania and I had 
companies that looked at 

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connectivity and access to 
information for profit and I 

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didn't really know a lot about 
what UNICEF was but having now 

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spent a few years in the 
organization, I think about 

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eight. 
Now, I found that we can 

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actually have that same startup 
culture and that same approach 

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to solving problems, using the 
technologies that we're all 

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interested in. 
In. 

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But do it I'd really a global 
scale and I'm happy to talk a 

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little bit more about the 
specifics of the work. 

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We do later in the episode. 
So how do you? 

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I mean I guess we can talk about
this later in the show but like 

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how have you found tried to 
bring this sort of startup 

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culture into a 72 year old, very
large International, very 

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political organization. 
And I think it's a lot about 

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resolving to different kind of 
orders of magnitude, of problem 

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solving. 
So, like startup World works 

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really fast and works really 
great. 

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Julian likes to smash things and
international bureaucracies work

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really slowly at Big scale and 
like to not smash anything at 

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all. 
And so, a lot of what our team 

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does is try to translate that 
and we build a lot of 

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prototypes. 
We build a lot of physical 

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prototypes of things which are 
actually software or data. 

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We show those two people, we 
work with them and we work a lot

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with Partners so partners of 
ours that are in the tech. 

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World can also show us what's 
coming and I think we try to 

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gently introduce those to an 
environment. 

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That is really not a risk 
accepting environment. 

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Aunt. 
And we've had some successes and

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more failures, but it certainly 
gives us a scale of operation. 

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UNICEF is five and a half 
billion dollars a year as an 

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organization. 
It works in 195 countries and 

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their 12,000 people, that's 
12,000 people who are nodes in 

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our Network, know who we use to 
find out about new things to 

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find out about hard problems and
who become our partners in 

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building stuff and that's that's
kind of really amazing scale to 

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be yet. 
And how did you become 

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interested in blockchain 
technology? 

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I accidentally as well. 
A lot of stuff happens by 

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accident. 
We've got a great engineering 

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team in Ventures, and both Mike 
Fabric and and cruzada who have 

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been working with us on various 
software development projects 

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have been talking about 
blockchain and distributed 

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Ledger for a long time. 
And then it's obviously, like 

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the dumb ones like me, that just
pick it up later. 

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We, we try to look at 
Technologies for Investments 

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that are three to five years 
out. 

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And in terms of kind of being 
out, Out in production. 

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So about two years ago, we did 
our first experiments with 

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public blockchains and and they 
totally failed and I'll tell you

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that story because that's a lot 
of fun. 

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But we, you know, we got a sense
that this was something that was

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moving. 
And the way that our team 

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evaluates potential areas of 
investment is by looking at 

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industries that are at 100 
billion dollar market cap and 

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problems that can affect a 
billion people. 

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So that's our sort of heuristic 
for what we look at. 

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And I mean, is there something 
that's got a trajectory to that 

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hundred billion? 
And of course, three years ago 

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100 billion seem like crazy as a
you know, a figure to talk about

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in the crypto space. 
It seems remarkably uncrazy now 

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so we found that like with 
drones like with data science 

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like with augmented reality, 
this is very clearly a set of 

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technologies that we want to 
learn about work with and invest

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in. 
And we think that can actually 

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positively affect affect and 
infect, the work that you guys 

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have does. 
Cool. 

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And Sean actually took Sean and 
I met in Cancun over lunch, 

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eating burritos and having 
margaritas and he told me all 

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about EXO Foundation, I thought 
it was really fascinating 

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project and actually it was Sean
who sort of connected me to 

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Chris and and you know, Sean 
will be talking a little bit 

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about the collaboration that we 
have with UNICEF but we are 

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going to have Shawn on the show 
a little bit later and maybe in 

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a few months or so, to talk very
much in depth about his project.

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But so Sean, tell us a bit about
yourself and your background in 

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the space. 
Yes, I guess I've got a crazy 

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party here. 
I trained as a physician and I 

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work for most of my career in 
international development and 

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health and I guess the real 
kick-start to that was around 20

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years ago when the when the 
HIV/AIDS epidemic was really 

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showing its head here in South 
Africa. 

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So I was a young physician 
working in the government 

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Hospital services and was given 
a project to look at some 

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statistics. 
And so with Excel spreadsheets 

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you know looked at at the 
estimates of what the epidemic 

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was going to look like and it 
was it was very clearly an 

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exponential epidemic and and I 
got really charged up about this

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and thought, what we need to do 
something, we need to do 

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something that's going to be an 
exponential response. 

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And for me, the use of data to 
drive all kinds of development 

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initiatives. 
Whether that's two To influence 

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market prices of medicines, or 
to plan out the demand for 

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health workers or write down to 
a patient level sort of tracking

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over a long period of time. 
The clinical parameters that 

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show whether you're having 
success or not in a treatment 

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regimen, that was really 
important to me. 

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And so I got fascinated by the 
use of data within development. 

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And so all of my career has 
really really been about 

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venturing. 
On data driven projects and 

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data-driven Ventures including 
some nonprofits. 

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And and and this this latest 
Venture that we that we've 

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launched so that's a good segue 
into x0 Foundation. 

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Tell us about about this this 
project. 

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And one of the goals here Yeah. 
So around for years back I was 

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actually taken a bit of a career
break and was lying on a hammock

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in Sri Lanka of all things and 
the great internet connection 

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there 4G connection. 
And I was thinking about how to 

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solve the problem of supply and 
demand within services that seem

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to always have an increasing 
demand and never enough Supply 

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and the Why is usually driven 
institutionally? 

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And we've been working on on 
models of care delivery and 

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social support delivered through
networks of community agents. 

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And, and the real challenge 
there is, how do you collect the

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data? 
How do you incentivize, how do 

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you move information around 
these decentralized networks? 

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How do you govern govern the 
transfers of value and and the 

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information and I was I was 
lying this surfing the web and 

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so some articles about Bitcoin 
and sort of had this year Moment

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and thought well wouldn't it be 
great if we could insert the 

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information about the services 
that are being delivered into 

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into these transactions and 
transfer value and informations 

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information of value and value 
of information? 

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And this will give us some proof
of impact could bring together 

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financial accounting and 
performance accounting. 

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And so I thought this was going 
to be really easy. 

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This is for years back. 
We got the opportunity to, to 

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test this out and some proof of 
Concepts in early, childhood 

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development, and course I guess.
Well, We'll explain the context 

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of the UNICEF and investment 
into what we were doing and over

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the four years. 
We've realized that we have a 

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core set of standards and 
operating principles that we can

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draw on that. 
It become standards for the 

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decentralized web and I can I 
can talk about that in more 

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detail. 
So it's we kind of stumbled Upon

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A really exciting development in
terms of Core standards at a 

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protocol level, that can be 
applied across all of the impact

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space and it's really about 
taking data and turning that 

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into into assets that can be 
tokenized. 

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So, impact assets, and into 
impact tokens. 

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And I can talk about that a bit 
later. 

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Actually that sounds really 
fascinating me. 

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Of course, one of the great 
benefits of blockchain is having

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some sort of traceability and 
coming back to some initial 

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event. 
And if you can, like, is if you 

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can, if you can trace so source 
of funding to an impact, right? 

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Of like how we spend that money 
in the impact and the result of 

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how you spend that money, then 
you sort of the reputation 

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system there, where, for 
instance, a like a sort of 

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humanitarian organization then 
Has like proper reputation and 

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credibility about how they're 
spending their funds and the 

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actual impact on the ground, 
rather than just, you know, how 

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much money they're raising or 
like how many people are 

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reaching or some sort of data 
results, that don't really have 

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a whole lot of meaning. 
Yes. 

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Oh, so in this development 
space, the catchphrases are 

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accountability and transparency 
and they've been a number of 

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initiatives over certainly the 
last decade really pushing 

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accountability and transparency 
and certainly blockchain Geez, 

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provide for this but they also 
provide for four more than that.

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There is the opportunity. 
We see to create a new form of 

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capital and new form of economy.
The impact economy, which values

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the impacts that are being 
delivered through organizations 

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that are that are making a 
difference in the world, you 

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know. 
And so when we start to count, 

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what matters and value, what 
counts we can, we can generate 

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new forms of Ami, you know, so 
as we all know in a Bitcoin sort

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of came from nothing and now 
it's a hugely valuable part of 

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the economy. 
Now, why can't we start to Value

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impacts that are relevant to our
sustainability and to our 

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well-being, a society But would 
be very valuable indeed. 

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So you know what will come, will
come back to to EXO towards the 

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towards the end, the show to 
talk about the recovery 

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collaboration with with UNICEF. 
So, back to Chris, most people 

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are familiar with UNICEF. 
I mean, most people have seen 

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the little orange boxes, you 
know, next to cash registers and

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convenience stores or just 
retail stores and like growing 

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up in Canada. 
I remember seeing like UNICEF 

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commercials on TV and Of course,
like it brings up all these 

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really positive things of like 
helping kids and developing 

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world, but remind our listeners.
Like what is UNICEF as an 

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organization like this part of 
the UN. 

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So maybe talk about that and 
also, what are the goals of that

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organization short? 
So it's an interesting and 

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complex place and then I sort of
learned more about UNICEF every 

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year that I'm there. 
I actually didn't know a lot 

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about UNICEF when I joined and 
so I came from this kind of 

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world of fast paced Stuff and I 
guess I had the same 

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Recollections. 
You did like something about 

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kids and it was like a pretty 
nice organization. 

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It wasn't mean like UNICEF 
didn't do mean things about what

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I've learned over the last few 
years is that it actually does a

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lot more than just not doing 
mean things. 

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UNICEF is the world's largest 
humanitarian Organization for 

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children and when it when the 
organization focuses on kids, 

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that really focuses on the most 
vulnerable and I think that's 

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one of the reasons that a lot of
our team work in our job. 

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So I'm almost all of us come 
from the tech world. 

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But there's a clear mandate in 
the Relation to fight against 

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bullies, and Bullies can be 
physical bullies or system. 

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Bullies things that make the 
World unfair. 

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And by most vulnerable. 
We quantify that by looking at 

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bottom quintile of people 
economically, but there are many

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many types of vulnerability. 
So, economic vulnerability is 

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only one. 
And so, this is an organization 

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that literally fights for the 
kids that are that are left 

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behind that other people don't 
fight for. 

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And I think that's really nice. 
That's something that we can all

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kind of get behind. 
We all feel good waking up with 

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that as a mandate specifically 
UNICEF works with governments. 

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In 195 countries to create the 
right policies and governments 

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that are that make sure that 
kids are included. 

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But also to take action so we 
respond to emergencies. 

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You must have responded to over 
350 emergencies last year. 

253
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That's a two billion dollars of 
emergency supplies and that 

254
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means getting things to 
communities faster than anybody 

255
00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:42,300
else. 
Getting the right things there 

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and making sure that communities
can rebuild. 

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So our team was in Liberia, 
during the Ebola crisis, which 

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was the most scary. 
I think, I'm probably, most 

259
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:53,100
scary things I've ever done 
working with communities there 

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to Sure that information could 
flow that kids could get 

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information about hand washing 
that we could know when schools 

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were being closed and so on. 
And and that's that's the 

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on-the-ground part of what. 
UNICEF does the others in the 

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UNICEF does is at a system 
level. 

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Make sure that the right 
policies are in place for 

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inclusion for making sure the 
kids with different or 

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disabilities kind of are able to
be in a common space for 

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Learning and opportunity and 
choice and we also buy a lot of 

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stuff. 
You must have the world's 

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largest single purchaser of 
pencils. 

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Here's a fun fact. 
Act but we also by 34 percent of

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00:15:25,108 --> 00:15:28,200
the world's vaccines and that's 
important when you buy that much

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stuff that's a billion dollars a
year of vaccines more than a 

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billion. 
When you buy that much stuff you

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have the ability to move markets
and this, I had no idea about 

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when I joined UNICEF at all. 
And what that means is you can 

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00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:41,700
sit together with the big Pharma
companies and make sure that 

278
00:15:41,700 --> 00:15:44,700
there's Fair open and 
transparent pricing on vaccines,

279
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,000
that's incredibly important. 
So all of those three levels to 

280
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,900
sort of programmatic work doing 
stuff, the sort of policy work 

281
00:15:52,900 --> 00:15:55,500
in the Financial work, come 
together and make a very nice 

282
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environment for a team like 
ours, which looks at new 

283
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,800
technology. 
And you can imagine that, you 

284
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,500
know, we try to turn the gears 
of, unicef's Education or Health

285
00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:06,200
Systems strengthening, and, and 
turn them faster. 

286
00:16:06,700 --> 00:16:08,500
And, and by using those three 
levels, so making sure that 

287
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:11,400
we're building products on the 
ground with with users, making 

288
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:12,400
sure we're working with 
government. 

289
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,700
So the right policies are in 
place to take those Technologies

290
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:18,500
and then working with big 
companies to make sure they 

291
00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,300
understand that there's a 
market, even in parts of the 

292
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:22,500
world that they might not 
consider their main, their main 

293
00:16:22,500 --> 00:16:26,300
kind of Market. 
I like this idea of like UNICEF 

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00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,400
fighting bullies wherever they 
wherever they appear, whether 

295
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:35,300
they be corrupt, governments or 
corporations or illness or 

296
00:16:35,300 --> 00:16:37,600
medical email nutrition. 
Those are all the, all the 

297
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:40,400
bullies that UNICEF goes out and
tries to fight against by 

298
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,900
implementing policy and getting 
people to change their minds 

299
00:16:42,900 --> 00:16:45,700
about certain ways and things 
ways of thinking cetera. 

300
00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:51,000
So you mentioned that you worked
in in Liberia, what are some of 

301
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000
the most impactful things you 
think? 

302
00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:59,100
That UNICEF is doing today, you 
know, aside from obviously, 

303
00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:04,900
like, delivering vaccines to 
people with illnesses that might

304
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,800
end up killing them or 
delivering pencils to kids that 

305
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,900
need them in tools. 
So I think that structurally 

306
00:17:11,900 --> 00:17:16,000
UNICEF is, is looking at the 
biggest weaknesses in system. 

307
00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,700
So the reason that I mean, 
people are poor because systems 

308
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:23,500
are unfair and and when you're 
poor, you don't have the ability

309
00:17:23,500 --> 00:17:24,400
to go to a good. 
It's cool. 

310
00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,500
You don't have the ability to 
have action and to have an 

311
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,300
opportunity and choice Vector in
front of you, your kind of left 

312
00:17:29,300 --> 00:17:30,900
behind. 
So I think the most important 

313
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,300
thing that UNICEF does is ensure
that every kid try to ensure 

314
00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:36,900
that every kid try really hard 
to ensure that every kid has 

315
00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:39,800
equal access to opportunity and 
choice, and I'll give you an 

316
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,700
example. 
If you're so, they're 55 million

317
00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:46,900
people who are children. 55 
million young people who are on 

318
00:17:46,900 --> 00:17:51,400
the move because of war or 
violence, but inconceivable 

319
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,100
number. 
There's no way to make 55 

320
00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:55,700
million makes sense. 
Anybody so 55 million kids who 

321
00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,900
don't have access to the things 
that many of us take for granted

322
00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:02,600
a health system, a school and 
identity. 

323
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,800
And so the type of work that 
UNICEF does with refugees, is 

324
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,100
make sure that that 
five-year-old Refugee kid has 

325
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:10,700
some semblance of normalcy that 
they can go to a school that 

326
00:18:10,700 --> 00:18:14,400
they can be around other kids 
and it's not only to be nice. 

327
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:17,400
It's also really important to 
society when you have imbalance 

328
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:20,500
when there is unfairness and 
inequity and inequality 

329
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,700
societies come apart. 
And you can see this in the 

330
00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,500
Today, you see the strains of 
inequality everywhere and, and 

331
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:31,900
this is how a dialogue that 
could be very condensed and 

332
00:18:31,900 --> 00:18:34,100
connected has become very 
polarized. 

333
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:36,300
And so I think, when UNICEF 
works with Refugee populations, 

334
00:18:36,300 --> 00:18:39,300
for example, we not only make 
sure that their systems to give 

335
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:43,100
kids health care and vaccines 
but also that those kids once 

336
00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:46,700
they get the right nutrition and
the right education, have some 

337
00:18:46,700 --> 00:18:50,100
access to opportunity have some 
idea of how to be part of the 

338
00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:52,400
world and that sounds very 
lofty. 

339
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:53,900
But I think it's really 
important. 

340
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:57,900
We were in Liberia during Ebola,
there were these, there's a 

341
00:18:57,900 --> 00:19:02,200
group of 14, 15 year-olds who 
were in the most hard-hit part 

342
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,700
of Monrovia. 
There's a peninsula in the city 

343
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:08,300
that have been really cut off 
and quarantine and we met them 

344
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:09,700
after. 
We got there in November, I 

345
00:19:09,708 --> 00:19:12,700
think octopus end of October, we
met these young people who were 

346
00:19:12,700 --> 00:19:16,200
literally going door to door 
with notepads and asking 

347
00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,800
questions of households in their
neighborhood and telling 

348
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,700
information that was important 
to other young people to adults 

349
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:25,900
saying, you know, don't don't 
wash dead people and things like

350
00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:28,200
that. 
We worked with them to build a 

351
00:19:28,208 --> 00:19:30,600
system and I can talk about it a
little bit more, but we worked 

352
00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,300
with, we were like, okay, so you
guys are the heroes of the Ebola

353
00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:35,200
outbreak. 
You are literally in the most 

354
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,100
difficult place these, it was 45
degrees. 

355
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,200
It was muddy, they were walking 
around with with boots, you 

356
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,700
know, rubber boots on and this 
pads of paper and we worked with

357
00:19:43,708 --> 00:19:45,600
them to build up a system that 
so that they could use their 

358
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:48,400
phones to SMS in that 
information more quickly. 

359
00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:50,900
I don't think that there was any
genius in that. 

360
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:53,900
We literally looked at people 
who had a brilliant idea. 

361
00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:57,000
But maybe not all the access to 
networks and things that we do 

362
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:00,300
and help them build something 
that made their job better. 

363
00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:02,600
That made them create more 
balance in the world around 

364
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,200
them. 
Interesting. 

365
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,300
So so there have been some so I 
guess the Innovation unit that 

366
00:20:08,300 --> 00:20:13,300
has produced some projects that 
have been valuable and have have

367
00:20:13,300 --> 00:20:17,700
had positive outcome. 
I'd like to ask you then sort of

368
00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:20,800
you've been with UNICEF for a 
number of years now. 

369
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,300
And so I've been the 
humanitarian space, do you Think

370
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:30,100
that the world is is tending 
towards less inequality. 

371
00:20:30,100 --> 00:20:37,200
Like so like if you were to look
at like results of actions of 

372
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:41,800
impact that units have had 15 20
years ago and the impact that 

373
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,900
it's having now and sort of the 
result of that. 

374
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:48,000
Do you see that we're moving 
towards an improved situation? 

375
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,100
Or is it staying the same as 
it's degrading? 

376
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,500
I'm going to go with With Jack 
Ma on this one and say that the 

377
00:20:56,500 --> 00:21:01,900
next 30 Years looks really bad 
for Humanity, I think that you 

378
00:21:01,900 --> 00:21:04,300
see aggregate gains. 
So UNICEF was started as the 

379
00:21:04,308 --> 00:21:08,000
United Nations International 
children's emergency fund after 

380
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,200
WWII. 
My mother still has a blanket 

381
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,700
that my parents, my mom was a 
refugee, she steals a blanket 

382
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:21,000
from the version of Unicef that 
existed then That was the 

383
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,600
organization was founded to 
respond particularly to children

384
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:28,000
who were displaced after WWII 
and the EV, the emergency was 

385
00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:29,900
taken out of the name about 20 
years later because it's like, 

386
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:34,700
this should be for all children.
I think we see an aggregate good

387
00:21:34,700 --> 00:21:37,100
change in the world. 
Like on aggregate, things are 

388
00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:40,600
getting better but the Divide 
between those 55 million Refugee

389
00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:44,100
kids and us who have houses and 
infrastructure is growing 

390
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:45,700
greater and that really worries 
me. 

391
00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:50,100
You have a country like Malawi. 
We've just opened the Largest 

392
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:53,400
humanitarian drone testing 
Corridor in the world, in Malawi

393
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:57,200
6,500, square kilometers, 400 
meter vertical, incredible 

394
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,000
opportunity for young Malawi and
engineers and techies to work on

395
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,900
drones. 
But Malawi has 18 million people

396
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:09,000
more than half of them are under
25 years old, and the major 

397
00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:11,600
economic hope for them is a 
cofactor, that's being built. 

398
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,400
So, I really worry about that in
a quality about the inequity 

399
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:20,500
that we see in front of us about
the fact that The technologies 

400
00:22:20,500 --> 00:22:23,600
that are coming to currency and 
the in wealthier countries or 

401
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,300
wealthier parts of wealthier 
countries are built on 

402
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:29,000
disparity. 
The training sets were using for

403
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,100
modeling and are not fair. 
The genomic samples that were 

404
00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:35,500
using for building medicines are
not fair, they're not equitably 

405
00:22:35,500 --> 00:22:39,000
sourced from from all of 
humanity and that creates an 

406
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:41,900
inequity, that doesn't 
necessarily appear at Global 

407
00:22:41,900 --> 00:22:43,800
statistics. 
Like, there are fewer big Wars 

408
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,500
now. 
Sure, but that really shows 

409
00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,200
itself acutely in the places 
where there's the most weakness,

410
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,200
the most. 
Some weakness and our team tries

411
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:52,500
to address a lot of those 
things. 

412
00:22:52,700 --> 00:22:55,900
Sorry I know that's a more Bleak
answer than maybe one would 

413
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:59,800
expect. 
Hey you you tell the truth, how 

414
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,100
you see it? 
I mean I do sort of agree with 

415
00:23:03,100 --> 00:23:06,700
you that you know as an 
Aggregate and we see less Wars 

416
00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:09,300
and like less massive 
extinctions of you know, human 

417
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:13,800
population as we did maybe like 
100 years ago or even more 

418
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,500
recently than that. 
But that we do see growing 

419
00:23:17,500 --> 00:23:22,100
inequalities amongst The most 
privileged people and those that

420
00:23:22,100 --> 00:23:24,200
are least privilege and I think 
that that's something that we 

421
00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:28,200
should all that that's a gap 
that we should all try to 

422
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,200
narrow. 
And I think that one of the ways

423
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,600
that one of the tools for that 
maybe maybe blockchain 

424
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,900
Technologies and we'll talk 
about how that can be applied. 

425
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:45,300
So, moving to the more like the 
technology side, how much of 

426
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,500
unicef's resources and like the 
man? 

427
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:53,000
Date of Unicef generally, how 
much of that goes into, 

428
00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:56,600
developing new technologies, for
humanitarian reasons? 

429
00:23:57,700 --> 00:23:59,800
So a lot of I mean, you just 
have his a big five. 

430
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:01,600
It's at five and a half billion 
dollar organization. 

431
00:24:02,700 --> 00:24:07,100
Most of our money goes into kind
of core work and for us core is 

432
00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:08,900
delivering services to most 
vulnerable children. 

433
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:13,100
We don't we try really hard not 
to fetishize technology or to, 

434
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,400
you know, make technology be the
goal in itself. 

435
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,000
And so we don't have a huge 
budget and our team has Ever 

436
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,600
wanted a huge budget. 
I think we do a lot by being 

437
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:25,800
kind of lean and aggressive and 
small and hungry. 

438
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:30,200
And so if you look at sort of 
how UNICEF invest in 

439
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,800
Technologies, we are a I mean, 
our regular resources, the 

440
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,100
funding that we took from core 
UNICEF last year was like less 

441
00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:39,600
than a million dollars. 
So, tiny and all the rest of the

442
00:24:39,608 --> 00:24:42,400
money that we use, we raise 
through our Venture fund and 

443
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,200
through other mechanisms. 
But we invest in these early, 

444
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,400
very high-risk areas and as they
Velop as they become more, sure 

445
00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:53,700
UNICEF puts its organizational 
muscle behind them. 

446
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:58,000
And an example of that is the 
work that we did with SMS as a 

447
00:24:58,300 --> 00:25:01,400
basically as a command line, for
International Development. 

448
00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:05,500
So, over the last eight years, 
we piloted prototype and built 

449
00:25:05,500 --> 00:25:09,300
systems for using a text message
to send like very important 

450
00:25:09,300 --> 00:25:11,700
information about Health 
Systems, how many vaccines are 

451
00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,000
left in a health center, how 
many kids are in school on a 

452
00:25:14,008 --> 00:25:17,300
given day and to do that all on 
a basic Nokia 1100, you know, 

453
00:25:17,300 --> 00:25:19,500
like a phone that has nothing 
else that can stay charged. 

454
00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:23,700
For days weeks. 
And so we basically built this 

455
00:25:23,700 --> 00:25:25,800
operating system for 
International Development that 

456
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,900
allowed us to do our job better 
but also allowed us to connect 

457
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:32,000
with people like these kids in 
Liberia and hear from them in 

458
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,300
real time and we put you know, a
bit of our investment into that.

459
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:36,700
We put a lot of our time into 
it. 

460
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,500
That's now an organizational 
priority that system called 

461
00:25:39,500 --> 00:25:41,900
rapid pro-israel platform with 
more than four and a half 

462
00:25:41,900 --> 00:25:45,600
million active users. 
It's in 35 countries 39 

463
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,300
countries, maybe now and that's 
a platform that's an open source

464
00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:51,900
cloud. 
Add based Enterprise SMS and 

465
00:25:51,900 --> 00:25:55,700
other information moving system.
And that's something that is a 

466
00:25:55,708 --> 00:25:57,800
core UNICEF priorities. 
Another millions of dollars 

467
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,800
being invested in getting that 
into government scaling that up 

468
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,400
working with new partners. 
And it's taken a life of its 

469
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:04,800
own. 
So I think that's what we try to

470
00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,300
do is really create those early 
prototypes build them to a point

471
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:11,100
where they have some gas behind 
them and then get them out the 

472
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:14,700
door, the muscle of Unicef takes
it from there. 

473
00:26:14,700 --> 00:26:16,800
And that's one of the reasons 
that a lot of us who are used to

474
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,500
the fast paced, sort of world of
startups. 

475
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,500
And, and, you know, failing and 
crushing it and all of that kind

476
00:26:22,500 --> 00:26:24,400
of nonsense. 
It's one of the reasons that a 

477
00:26:24,408 --> 00:26:26,900
lot of us are in UNICEF, because
we can actually see the 

478
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:29,400
extension of our work. 
You can see when something's 

479
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:31,900
good how it goes. 
Big, did you just make a new 

480
00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:34,600
Theory impugn their? 
I did projects with gas behind 

481
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,500
them. 
Yeah, that does does. 

482
00:26:36,500 --> 00:26:39,500
I've got like four of those and 
I'll reuse them. 

483
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:43,700
That's great. 
Okay, so let me let's let's dive

484
00:26:43,700 --> 00:26:48,400
into watchings then and and so 
the intersection between you and

485
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:54,300
Stephen blockchains, I'd like to
ask you given just what the 

486
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:58,900
space looks like right now. 
You know there's been massive 

487
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:03,400
interest in in blockchain and 
public blockchains especially in

488
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,000
crypto currency in the last the 
last three years. 

489
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:09,500
But most notably in the last few
months. 

490
00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:18,500
How and of course, there is all 
the Permissioned and more 

491
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:23,400
private blockchains systems that
we are seeing slowly, but surely

492
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,300
come into production and more 
the Enterprise space. 

493
00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:32,800
How does unicef's were valuable 
to evaluate the different 

494
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,200
Technologies and the different 
types of networks that exist in 

495
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:41,300
the blockchain space today? 
We take the same approach to 

496
00:27:41,500 --> 00:27:45,000
blockchain technology as we do 
to any of these other sort of 

497
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,200
areas where you have a large 
Market Force behind the 

498
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,300
technology and the potential to 
solve big needs. 

499
00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:54,600
So other areas that we look at 
in an analogous ways are drones 

500
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:57,700
and uavs data, science and 
machine learning. 

501
00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:01,100
So these are areas that are all 
kind of buzz, wordy and 

502
00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:05,200
buzzworthy that some people 
really believe in some people 

503
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:06,700
think that they're going to 
solve everything, drones will be

504
00:28:06,700 --> 00:28:08,400
delivering everything. 
Some people think. 

505
00:28:08,500 --> 00:28:12,200
They're totally useless or scary
or dangerous and there's a whole

506
00:28:12,208 --> 00:28:14,800
bunch of people in between. 
So anytime we have a technology 

507
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:19,600
space and blockchain is one of 
them, we try to Principles and 

508
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,500
these are the units have 
principles of innovation there 

509
00:28:21,500 --> 00:28:24,800
online that we created them 
after many, many failures and 

510
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:27,600
they just make us, we don't fail
less, but we fail unless stupid 

511
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,900
ways and these principles are 
things like design with a user 

512
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,800
or be open source or, you know, 
be data-driven in your 

513
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,500
development. 
So they're pretty basic but 

514
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:39,500
they're a rubric that we use 
when we're looking at a new tech

515
00:28:39,500 --> 00:28:44,300
space and so in the Block Chain 
space, I think there is a lot of

516
00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:46,800
hype and I think there is a lot 
of potential and I think 

517
00:28:46,900 --> 00:28:48,100
actually crypto kitties showed 
us. 

518
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:52,500
That we're at a space where meet
you see the network? 

519
00:28:53,500 --> 00:28:55,700
In efficiencies and you see 
where things can go, right? 

520
00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:58,000
So we want to be careful of what
we promise. 

521
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,100
But we also want to be sure that
we're taking advantage of new 

522
00:29:00,100 --> 00:29:02,100
things and making the world more
efficient there. 

523
00:29:02,700 --> 00:29:04,200
There are three ways that we 
looked at. 

524
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,700
We look at Sort of public, 
permissionless blockchains and 

525
00:29:08,708 --> 00:29:11,600
distributed Ledger's. 
The, the first is that we 

526
00:29:12,100 --> 00:29:17,000
there's clearly a road for 
fundraising and for, for 

527
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:19,300
transactions coming into 
organizations that are doing 

528
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:20,700
good. 
Now we've seen this with the Red

529
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:22,000
Cross. 
They're already using digital 

530
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,200
currency accepting donations in 
Ethan and Bitcoin we have. 

531
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:29,800
We've seen this now that like 
yesterday the pineapple fund 

532
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,400
launch that's 83 million dollars
of Bitcoins like 5,000 Bitcoins 

533
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:36,300
that are available for Charities
and nonprofits. 

534
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,900
So there's something that's 
happening in terms of resources 

535
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,900
and resource allocation and if I
were putting digital assets into

536
00:29:44,900 --> 00:29:48,300
a, you know, an investment to 
fix the world, I would want the 

537
00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:50,700
transparency and the 
accountability that public 

538
00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:53,400
blockchains bring, I would 
rather have that than just give 

539
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:55,500
a dollar and hope that it gets 
to somebody. 

540
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,300
So I think that we see an 
opportunity for a different type

541
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:02,600
of Engagement with people who 
want to fix the world. 

542
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:06,100
And we've had really nice notes.
We've got a public etherium 

543
00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:08,200
wallet People have been just 
dropping little bits of ether in

544
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:12,500
there, and we got a really nice 
note from somebody just random 

545
00:30:12,500 --> 00:30:15,400
guy and he's like, listen I put 
in like I don't think it wasn't 

546
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,000
very much that in but we're 
happy with it. 

547
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:18,800
It was like .1 ether, I he's 
like, I did this. 

548
00:30:19,500 --> 00:30:21,800
He's like I just want to be part
of something that's that's 

549
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,700
fixing the world. 
I just I like this feeling. 

550
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,900
Here's you know here's something
I think we need to understand 

551
00:30:26,900 --> 00:30:28,400
that better. 
I think there's a lot that we 

552
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,800
can do to reshape the way that 
funding streams work and 

553
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,900
development financing works. 
And that's very exciting and 

554
00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:36,300
it's very kind of macro the 
second level that we look at. 

555
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,600
That is internal. 
And it's about reducing the 

556
00:30:38,608 --> 00:30:40,300
friction inside of a big 
bureaucracy. 

557
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:45,500
How do we make sure that when 
we're paying a vendor or we're 

558
00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:48,100
moving money to a government or 
removing money across offices, 

559
00:30:48,100 --> 00:30:51,100
that we have transparency, 
accountability and speed how do 

560
00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:53,900
we use has a complex 
organization but we are 

561
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:55,900
represented by contracts. 
How do we make sure that our 

562
00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:59,800
contracts are also represented 
publicly and intelligently and 

563
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,300
we're testing out in our office 
in Kazakhstan, we just did a 

564
00:31:02,300 --> 00:31:05,700
hackathon on Smart contracts for
bureaucracy, where we brought 

565
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,400
about Kind of crypto folks 
together. 

566
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,900
And we're like, here's an insane
UNICEF contract represent that, 

567
00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,100
you know, I don't know in 
solidity, like to go do 

568
00:31:14,100 --> 00:31:15,900
something with it. 
And they're like, wow, that 

569
00:31:15,900 --> 00:31:19,100
really is an insane contract. 
If we can start to describe 

570
00:31:19,100 --> 00:31:21,500
those things publicly, we can 
bring them into the global view 

571
00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:24,200
and we can optimize them. 
And then, the last area that we 

572
00:31:24,208 --> 00:31:27,200
look at is direct investments 
into early stage companies. 

573
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:30,200
So, like the company that we 
invested in that genre in South 

574
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:35,100
Africa companies that are using 
crypto Technologies or 

575
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,500
blockchain Technologies to To 
try to fix something. 

576
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,200
And we have a small Venture fund
that allows us to make directed 

577
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,700
hundred thousand dollar 
investment of capital non 

578
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:44,800
delusional Capital into these 
kind of companies that are 

579
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,900
really trying to solve acute 
problems with distributed Ledger

580
00:31:47,900 --> 00:31:50,600
and that for us is creating a 
portfolio of opportunity. 

581
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:54,200
Those are high-risk Investments 
for us, our investors know that,

582
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,100
but that's where we also get to 
see things in action, things, 

583
00:31:57,100 --> 00:31:59,700
failing and changing, and 
turning, and twisting, and 

584
00:31:59,700 --> 00:32:01,000
that's the Venture part of our 
work. 

585
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,600
Okay, so if I just recap them, 
so there's three levels of how 

586
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:10,400
you evaluate this technology, 
the first being looking at sort 

587
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:13,200
of public networks. 
And so the applications that we 

588
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,900
are starting to see emerge there
one of which of course being 

589
00:32:15,900 --> 00:32:20,200
funding and in your case the the
the benefit there is having that

590
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,900
sort of transparency, you 
mentioned having a multisig 

591
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:25,000
wallet. 
So people can donate funds and 

592
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,900
like there's a sort of an audit 
Trail there. 

593
00:32:27,900 --> 00:32:30,200
Like what funds are being 
donated? 

594
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,100
Everybody can see it. 
And then potentially at some 

595
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200
Point in there. 
You can sort of plug in another 

596
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,500
system where you would have like
proof of prove, in fact, 

597
00:32:37,500 --> 00:32:40,200
something that right like that's
publicly visible and sort of 

598
00:32:40,208 --> 00:32:42,300
made available through everyone 
for everyone to audit. 

599
00:32:42,700 --> 00:32:45,700
The second would be sort of 
improving. 

600
00:32:46,100 --> 00:32:49,300
Streamlining internal processes 
and procedures within the 

601
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:50,800
organization. 
This is a tough. 

602
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,100
This is sort of an area that I'm
very much interested in because 

603
00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:55,900
my company does this for 
Enterprise. 

604
00:32:55,900 --> 00:32:58,900
So like, you know, I like this 
idea, right? 

605
00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:02,300
A being able to streamline 
through some more IAM 

606
00:33:02,300 --> 00:33:04,900
blockchains and being able to 
automate a certain number of 

607
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:07,400
things within an organization 
and the third then would be 

608
00:33:09,100 --> 00:33:13,300
investing in Innovative 
Technologies and identifying 

609
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:14,900
opportunities through the 
Venture arm. 

610
00:33:16,700 --> 00:33:20,300
So if we if we because we're 
going to talk to John about 

611
00:33:20,300 --> 00:33:22,900
about his project and touch more
about the Venture on if you 

612
00:33:22,908 --> 00:33:26,200
minutes, but coming back to the 
the two first layer. 

613
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,300
So Polly blockchains and the 
Consortium networks. 

614
00:33:30,700 --> 00:33:34,700
I've have this idea. are you 
running around my head for quite

615
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:40,200
some time now, a couple of years
and, you know, I think that it 

616
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:46,200
would be interesting to consider
as a thought, experiment, a sort

617
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:52,000
of public Consortium blockchain 
that would be run by Nonprofit 

618
00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:58,000
organizations for the purpose of
improving transparency and 

619
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,800
accountability within all those 
organizations. 

620
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:06,600
So take like UNICEF and like 
Doctors Without Borders and like

621
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:11,900
right across and just take like 
the the top 100 humanitarian 

622
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,500
nonprofit organizations in the 
world and have them be 

623
00:34:15,500 --> 00:34:19,400
validating nodes for something 
like a tenement blockchain. 

624
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:27,000
And Have that platform be the 
basis upon, which you can, then 

625
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,800
build all types of applications.
So one of them could be like 

626
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:33,000
funding, right? 
We want to have transparent, 

627
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,500
traceable, accountability, and 
funding. 

628
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:38,400
And we want to have a system 
upon, which we can do that. 

629
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:45,000
That scales at a high level 
where we runs globally is 

630
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,100
compliant across the world, 
right? 

631
00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:49,600
And like, we can build this on 
this platform and then take 

632
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:51,699
another application. 
I don't know, like, Voting 

633
00:34:51,699 --> 00:34:55,000
governance, who are the board 
members of these organizations? 

634
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,300
How do we elect people on the 
ground like local offices and 

635
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,700
things like that? 
Is this something that is 

636
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:07,200
conceivable today? 
Like because I feel like at 

637
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,900
least for now for the next 
couple of years, public 

638
00:35:09,900 --> 00:35:13,500
blockchain infrastructure such 
as etherium is not going to 

639
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:16,800
scale. 
I think God's a put to yesterday

640
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:19,000
actually saying that like 
nothing's in Productions, 

641
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,900
nothing's close to being 
production and deploying a 

642
00:35:22,900 --> 00:35:26,200
Consortium blockchain within an 
organization sort of is limiting

643
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,400
to that under organization when 
there's could be just so much 

644
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:31,100
more that can be done. 
Yeah, what were your thoughts on

645
00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:35,900
that? 
It is not only possible but 

646
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,300
there I think are notional 
artifacts now that show that 

647
00:35:40,300 --> 00:35:45,400
it's probable and likely. 
So I think that there's a lot to

648
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,700
be, you know, if you look at 
like fractional Reserve 

649
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:52,800
development, so not everything 
needs to be on public 

650
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:54,000
blockchains. 
And I think one of the things 

651
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,000
that Shawn did in the early days
of our investment with trust lab

652
00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:01,800
was actually look a lot at kind 
of dual or you know, multi multi

653
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,900
blockchain Projects, we believe.
I think what we're seeing from 

654
00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:08,300
our experimentation in our 
investments is that we can 

655
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:11,500
create a network and we can use 
unicef's trust to validate parts

656
00:36:11,500 --> 00:36:14,800
of that Network and we have 
enough corporate partners, and 

657
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,300
other development partners, that
would also be interested in 

658
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:19,900
being part of such a network 
that could do a bunch of things.

659
00:36:19,900 --> 00:36:23,500
So I think the answer is yes, I 
agree that that's a useful and 

660
00:36:23,500 --> 00:36:26,200
necessary and possible thing, 
and I would go even further and 

661
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,800
say that, you know, within that 
Network which could be joint, 

662
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,300
public and private. 
You could also use public 

663
00:36:32,300 --> 00:36:35,100
blockchains to Using transaction
records to create soft 

664
00:36:35,100 --> 00:36:38,200
identities for people. 
You could start bringing in some

665
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:42,300
of the large amount of 
charitable or, you know, human 

666
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:44,700
investment money that I 
mentioned earlier into that 

667
00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:46,600
system. 
You could validate that and you 

668
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,300
could probably back that 
Network, you know, fractionally 

669
00:36:49,300 --> 00:36:53,100
with something like ether. 
So I think it's a very 

670
00:36:53,100 --> 00:36:56,800
interesting idea to explore and 
it's a conversation that's a 

671
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:58,100
type of conversation. 
We're having with a lot of our 

672
00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:00,600
partners and we would be happy 
to hear from others who are 

673
00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:02,100
interested in being in that 
space. 

674
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:04,500
Cool. 
So you mentioned this 

675
00:37:04,500 --> 00:37:07,800
experimentation you did with 
with a theorem etherium, smart 

676
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,100
contract, multisig Walla and 
there's a blog post that will be

677
00:37:11,100 --> 00:37:13,300
linked to in the show notes. 
Can you tell us more 

678
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:15,600
experimentation like one of the 
goals and what did you learn? 

679
00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:19,900
Sure so this was under the the 
part of our you know the part of

680
00:37:19,900 --> 00:37:21,400
our job. 
We're we're like let's just try 

681
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,200
this and really hope that we 
don't break anything too much. 

682
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,900
This was when we were, and this 
is, you know, considering ether,

683
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,300
not as a currency, but just, as 
a digital token, we wanted to 

684
00:37:33,300 --> 00:37:35,600
see if we could as a large 
International Organization, 

685
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,800
accept tokens from others and do
things with those tokens. 

686
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:41,800
That was the premise of our 
work. 

687
00:37:42,500 --> 00:37:45,700
We had a contact and the crypto 
world is amazing and incredible.

688
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:49,100
We have a contact from somebody 
in Switzerland. 

689
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:52,700
Who said that he was auctioning 
off some some posters and that 

690
00:37:52,700 --> 00:37:54,900
he would like to send us some 
ether from the auction. 

691
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,800
We needed a To be transparent 
about accepting those non 

692
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,600
currency non-value tokens into 
UNICEF. 

693
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,100
So we created a nice kind of 
multisig set up with me and my 

694
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:11,400
fund co-founder Sunita and Coos 
a linking it to our UNICEF 

695
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,300
identities, which are publicly 
available in attributable. 

696
00:38:14,500 --> 00:38:17,800
And, and we created the smart 
contract, actually, accept 

697
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,400
donations, from this auction and
actually helped him build his 

698
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,000
side of the smart contract as 
well. 

699
00:38:23,300 --> 00:38:26,000
And we set it up. 
I think we got to Ether. 

700
00:38:26,300 --> 00:38:29,000
Of that. 
And it was really interesting. 

701
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,700
It. 
It showed that we could do 

702
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:32,800
something it showed that we 
could set up an etherium node 

703
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,900
UNICEF architecture. 
Like that was nice. 

704
00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:37,900
It showed that we could have a 
transparent way of receiving 

705
00:38:37,900 --> 00:38:41,000
tokens not funds because to 
receive funds, we have to have 

706
00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,200
our lawyers, clear things. 
And that's definitely not what 

707
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,800
we were doing, but also that we 
could do that in a way that was 

708
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:50,900
public in described and start to
get public support from the 

709
00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:53,500
crypto ecosystem. 
So, it did a bunch of things it,

710
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:57,300
let us play around, but it also 
started creating a I was with 

711
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,900
the networks that we like that 
we were doing something new and 

712
00:38:59,900 --> 00:39:04,100
so that that while it is still 
up, it's transitioned from being

713
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:07,500
an experiment to actually being 
discussions inside of Unicef on 

714
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:11,300
what it would look like and how 
you would create an asset class 

715
00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:15,000
for cryptocurrency, if that was 
a donation where you would put 

716
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,900
those assets how you would value
them and so on. 

717
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,000
So it's really been that 
prototype of the future that we 

718
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,600
like to build and hopefully it's
provoked enough discussion that 

719
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,500
it serves its value. 
We haven't moved any of Ether 

720
00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:27,700
out yet. 
So that's something that we're 

721
00:39:27,700 --> 00:39:30,200
gonna be doing over the next few
months is looking at like, what 

722
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:31,400
do we do with those digital 
tokens? 

723
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,900
That are certainly not money and
how we how we use them in a way 

724
00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:38,600
that shows what a future of 
transparent Investments of 

725
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,400
non-monetary things could look 
like that's interesting that you

726
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,700
say that they're not money 
because I mean like in most 

727
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:49,200
jurisdictions I think 
governments would consider. 

728
00:39:49,500 --> 00:39:52,800
I know that in the US for 
instance and cryptocurrencies 

729
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,600
are considered a form of 
currency. 

730
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,700
Is this, is this Speaking of my 
naive View at the time that we 

731
00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:03,400
set this contract up of how a 
digital token was valued. 

732
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,200
And that I certainly our team, 
never went into it thinking that

733
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:07,900
there was a financial 
implication behind it. 

734
00:40:08,500 --> 00:40:11,400
Okay, I understand. 
Okay, and it looks like you've 

735
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,000
got like 2.7 17 either now and 
other tokens like data coin for 

736
00:40:16,008 --> 00:40:17,500
instance, you've got five cents 
of those. 

737
00:40:17,900 --> 00:40:19,900
How do people keep spreading 
things around, right? 

738
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,600
That's the fun of it. 
Ico is what I want to know. 

739
00:40:24,900 --> 00:40:27,500
Okay. 
And so I'd like to bring the 

740
00:40:27,508 --> 00:40:30,500
discussion, take it, take a step
back, a little bit and talk 

741
00:40:30,500 --> 00:40:36,000
about talk about sort of 
blockchain adoption. 

742
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,800
And so as a technology 
evangelist, I think I would 

743
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:46,500
qualify you as promoting 
blockchain within the UN, can 

744
00:40:46,500 --> 00:40:50,600
you give us some insight about, 
you know what response this has 

745
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:53,400
gotten? 
You know, how do people respond 

746
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,900
to this idea? 
People are responding well I 

747
00:40:57,900 --> 00:40:59,500
think that you know the future 
is a scary place. 

748
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:02,300
So we try to evangelize with the
sense of possibility and then 

749
00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:05,700
also a sense of looming fear and
that's how we try to bring 

750
00:41:05,700 --> 00:41:08,000
products into into the 
Limelight. 

751
00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:11,700
Coos I is our blockchain lead. 
He is an incredible evangelists 

752
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:15,700
of the technology and has 
presented our work much better 

753
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,400
than I do at for alike the World
Bank. 

754
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,400
So he presented his sort of 
senior will Bank leadership at 

755
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:24,600
the state department at various 
you. 

756
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:29,400
Venues and at universities. 
And we've what I think we've 

757
00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,700
seen from his presentations in 
the networks that were building 

758
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:35,600
is that there is a sense of 
opportunity, a desire for 

759
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:38,800
direction, an interest in 
following, the principles that 

760
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,500
we've setup and an ability to do
some quick rapid prototyping in 

761
00:41:42,500 --> 00:41:44,400
various organizations inside of 
the UN. 

762
00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:46,900
I think that one of the things 
we're trying to be very careful 

763
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:49,800
of is making sure that we keep 
the direction towards public 

764
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,800
permissionless blockchains as 
much as possible. 

765
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:55,300
And that's really that's really 
to keep Lined up with our 

766
00:41:55,300 --> 00:41:57,500
principles which are very firmly
rooted in the open-source 

767
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,600
tradition, but also to make sure
that we don't put ourselves in a

768
00:42:00,607 --> 00:42:03,400
position which we were in in the
mobile and SMS space. 

769
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:06,900
In 2009, where we had one 
company who owned a lot of our 

770
00:42:06,900 --> 00:42:08,900
infrastructure or owned a lot of
our data. 

771
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,200
So we're trying to make sure 
that we're creating that 

772
00:42:11,500 --> 00:42:13,800
internal sense of possibility 
but also keeping the market open

773
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:18,100
so that as different protocols 
develop on different 

774
00:42:18,100 --> 00:42:20,600
blockchains, we are able to be 
flexible and we're not locked 

775
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,000
into anyone. 
Vision of the future. 

776
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:26,900
There are other organizations 
that are doing prototypes and 

777
00:42:26,900 --> 00:42:29,500
tests of blockchain. 
We work together through the UN 

778
00:42:29,500 --> 00:42:32,200
Innovation Network, which we 
co-chair with the world food 

779
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:36,000
program and that brings together
nerds from across the agencies 

780
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:37,900
to sort of share what we're 
doing. 

781
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,200
And and so that's kind of 
publicly documented, I think 

782
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,600
we'll be putting out our most 
recent report on, like what's 

783
00:42:43,600 --> 00:42:45,400
the state of blockchain in the 
UN in a few weeks? 

784
00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:47,700
I just saw a draft yesterday. 
Great. 

785
00:42:48,100 --> 00:42:50,900
Can you expand on some of these 
experimentations is that 

786
00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:51,800
something you can talk about at 
this? 

787
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,900
Sure, I can speak to our own 
failures better than anybody 

788
00:42:55,900 --> 00:42:59,400
else's. 
We so we started looking at 

789
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,900
using the Bitcoin blockchain, as
a way of holding identity in the

790
00:43:02,900 --> 00:43:06,300
transaction, kind of hashing up 
an image and holding that as a 

791
00:43:06,308 --> 00:43:08,600
person's identity. 
That was like two years ago. 

792
00:43:08,900 --> 00:43:10,800
That was very expensive, even 
then. 

793
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,600
And that was also are fumbling 
around with the concept of big 

794
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:17,300
online databases. 
So that didn't work. 

795
00:43:17,300 --> 00:43:19,800
But we did some experiments with
that and that there's a lot of 

796
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,500
talk about like, oh, blockchain 
means Ade and it's like you 

797
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:25,900
know, as we all know it doesn't 
mean identity explicitly it can 

798
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:27,800
mean identity. 
If a certain set of conditions 

799
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,700
are met so we but we try to this
very explicit identity. 

800
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:32,600
Like let's hold an identity on 
the Bitcoin blockchain that 

801
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:35,900
didn't I was interesting but 
didn't work we played around 

802
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:39,400
with the smart contract. 
We've seen that wfp is doing 

803
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:44,400
some things with private 
etherium nodes for refugees in 

804
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,100
the Middle East, for kind of 
payments and a payment system 

805
00:43:47,100 --> 00:43:50,000
there. 
I think we're seeing a lot of 

806
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,600
interest in the smart contracts.
Side of things. 

807
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,100
So as I mentioned our office in 
Kazakhstan is trying to describe

808
00:43:56,100 --> 00:44:01,200
some of its very difficult and 
and and complicated contractual 

809
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,700
stuff in a way that could be 
publicly accessed. 

810
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:06,900
So those are the those are sort 
of the initial pointers that we 

811
00:44:06,900 --> 00:44:09,400
see and we're trying to document
them and just learn from them. 

812
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,700
And those are all on UNICEF 
stories dot org slash 

813
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:14,800
blockchain, as much as we do, as
much as we can capture them. 

814
00:44:15,900 --> 00:44:18,700
And when you present these use 
cases, and is of these 

815
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:22,000
experimentations internally, 
what kind of reaction are you 

816
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,700
getting from, you know, people 
that have been. 

817
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:32,500
So, I would say, like, in the 
more conservative side of an 

818
00:44:32,500 --> 00:44:37,000
organization like the UN or 
UNICEF, I mean we've presented 

819
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,300
drones you know like as I know 
you could move Health supplies 

820
00:44:40,300 --> 00:44:43,800
with drones and and had people 
say like don't do that drones 

821
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:46,500
kill people. 
I mean, so we're very used to 

822
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:48,100
this reaction. 
We try it when we tried to bring

823
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:52,900
SMS as like a data platform in 
2009, or 8, we're like don't use

824
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:54,100
SMS. 
This is what we were told, don't

825
00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:56,800
use sms. 
Use VHF radios. 

826
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,300
They're much better for moving 
data. 

827
00:44:58,300 --> 00:45:02,700
So we're sort of used to the 
resistance of, you know, of a 

828
00:45:02,707 --> 00:45:04,700
way of doing things against the 
future. 

829
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,200
I think that the D complicating 
the technology is important 

830
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,700
explaining that this is not 
really that new in a sense like 

831
00:45:11,700 --> 00:45:15,300
databases distributed databases 
have existed for a long time and

832
00:45:15,300 --> 00:45:20,100
making very clear use cases of 
how this technology can be 

833
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:23,000
applied to ongoing. 
Work are the three important 

834
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:25,500
things. 
Like if you say, do you want to 

835
00:45:25,500 --> 00:45:27,600
use a distributed ledger to make
your job better? 

836
00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:30,800
I think people will kind of 
throw up their hands at that, if

837
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,600
you say, I've taken the contract
that you use for paying your 

838
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:35,900
partner in. 
In the government. 

839
00:45:35,900 --> 00:45:38,400
And I've put it in a way that 
makes it faster and cheaper for 

840
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:39,900
you to do it. 
Here's how much it cost you 

841
00:45:39,900 --> 00:45:43,100
before it used to cost this much
for a transaction because of all

842
00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:44,700
the paperwork in the people and 
then Anna. 

843
00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:48,000
And now it costs you one tenth 
of that, here it is. 

844
00:45:48,300 --> 00:45:50,700
And they're like, wow, okay, I 
get that and I see how that can 

845
00:45:50,700 --> 00:45:53,400
be applied operationally. 
So that's the process we follow 

846
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:55,600
with any technology, like make 
it useful to the user. 

847
00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:58,000
Build it in a concrete way. 
Get rid of the jargon in The 

848
00:45:58,000 --> 00:46:01,300
Flash and be boring, like be 
superb, or a contract is a 

849
00:46:01,308 --> 00:46:03,200
boring thing. 
That's great. 

850
00:46:03,300 --> 00:46:06,900
Like, I like being boring and 
and so, I think that that gets 

851
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:12,000
more Of a transaction happening.
Sets of transactions happening 

852
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,200
in the organizational lymphatic 
system. 

853
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,600
The more boring and simple, 
you're definitely Echo that 

854
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,400
sentiment to anyone who's 
explaining any of the technology

855
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,600
to anybody who's typically 
wearing a suit? 

856
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,000
You know, try not to geek out 
about it. 

857
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:32,000
Just just be boring about it and
don't mention Iota. 

858
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,100
Don't talk about the tangle. 
Don't don't mention Iota. 

859
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,600
And and and definitely. 
Yeah, if you can, if you can 

860
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,100
show some sort of return on Man 
or show how this technology will

861
00:46:41,100 --> 00:46:46,300
make their job better or reduce 
operational frictions or reduce 

862
00:46:46,300 --> 00:46:48,400
paperwork or the time it takes 
to do certain thing. 

863
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,800
That's definitely a direction 
when I take and, but, but it is 

864
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:57,300
hard to find to find those of 
those those key metrics that you

865
00:46:57,308 --> 00:47:00,200
can point to because it's just 
the state of where we're at 

866
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:03,400
right now where a lot of the 
stuff is still experimental. 

867
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:06,600
We're not experimenting with 
real like real data that a lot 

868
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:11,200
of like parts of the stack that 
are Still not, you know, quite 

869
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,100
there yet in order to bring 
things to production. 

870
00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:16,000
So, you know, I think slowly 
it's getting to a point where we

871
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,100
can say oh we've experimented in
like we've been able to show 

872
00:47:18,100 --> 00:47:24,800
that we were reduce cost by x 
amount but it's it's taking a 

873
00:47:24,808 --> 00:47:26,700
while to get that wheel turning.
But I think what's it? 

874
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:29,600
Like, if you know, if Kitty's 
brought the whole thing down, if

875
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,000
like 12 kitties per second, 
brought the whole thing crashing

876
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:34,400
down for a little bit. 
That's that should tell us how 

877
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:38,000
humble we have to be, you know, 
and I think it's totally fine to

878
00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:39,100
design for the future. 
Iran. 

879
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:41,600
Are we try to do that a lot, but
I think we need to be very 

880
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,000
explicit about that, like we're 
creating a runway for the 

881
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:46,600
organization to be more 
efficient. 

882
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,600
It may not be this year, it may 
not be in the next 18 months, 

883
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:51,500
but at some point these small 
experimentations in the 

884
00:47:51,500 --> 00:47:54,600
Investments we put into them 
will pay off and I think we have

885
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,600
to you know you can create you 
can value-- future options in 

886
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,000
finance, you can do that. 
So I think if we consider 

887
00:48:02,100 --> 00:48:06,500
blockchain like we consider 
Artificial intelligence, there's

888
00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:08,500
doesn't that's means less than 
blockchain to me. 

889
00:48:08,500 --> 00:48:12,000
But, you know, those types of 
fields as potential future 

890
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,500
options, we can then be in a 
better position to talk about 

891
00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:16,100
them because we don't have to 
prove something right now. 

892
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,600
We can say this is the process 
of experimentation were going 

893
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:20,000
through. 
This is our hypothesis. 

894
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:21,300
This is what we think will 
happen. 

895
00:48:21,500 --> 00:48:24,000
And and this is the runway of 
time that we expect to see 

896
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,200
results in. 
But I do think that the, some of

897
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,000
the very basic organizational, 
descriptions that you can do 

898
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:34,000
through a smart contract will be
immediately interesting to the 

899
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:36,100
people in suits. 
It's like that's a nice thing. 

900
00:48:36,100 --> 00:48:40,100
They like to see systems 
described and and I think that's

901
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:43,100
where we're going to see the 
first real impact inside of the 

902
00:48:43,107 --> 00:48:46,300
organization which is awesome. 
And our finance, people are 

903
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:48,700
incredibly interested in this 
space and it's great to be able 

904
00:48:48,700 --> 00:48:51,000
to have discussions with people 
who know a lot more about money 

905
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,700
than I do, where they're really 
part of the of the building 

906
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:56,100
process. 
And I hadn't seen that with, 

907
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,700
like the SMS technology. 
We didn't, we didn't have that 

908
00:48:58,700 --> 00:49:03,300
kind of Alliance inside. 
Yeah, it is bringing together 

909
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:07,600
all of the different I guess, 
like, business units over over 

910
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:12,400
an organization that that's, 
that's what's so interesting. 

911
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,100
But also presents a big 
challenge with this technology 

912
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:18,100
is that it doesn't only impact 
like this one little corner of 

913
00:49:18,100 --> 00:49:20,700
your organization. 
It's going to impact your entire

914
00:49:20,700 --> 00:49:23,300
organization and the way your 
organization interacts in the 

915
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:26,800
broader ecosystem. 
And I think that's, that's a 

916
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:32,000
sort of paradigm shift that and 
an idea that is As massive, if 

917
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:36,600
not more, I think even more 
massive than the idea of taking 

918
00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:39,900
your paper card database and 
putting it onto and I computer 

919
00:49:39,900 --> 00:49:45,000
system, which people had to 
juggle that thought like 25 30 

920
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,400
years ago. 
So before we move on to the 

921
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:52,800
Venture arms, you talk about the
sort of the the strategy for the

922
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:57,400
next 12, 12 months and Beyond. 
So what is their sort of the 

923
00:49:57,408 --> 00:50:04,400
long-term goals here in terms of
how How the UN and UNICEF is 

924
00:50:05,100 --> 00:50:07,700
will be approaching the 
blockchain and implementing them

925
00:50:07,700 --> 00:50:13,100
in. 
In projects that have to act. 

926
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,500
Our timeline is pretty clearly 
aligned with the three levels 

927
00:50:17,500 --> 00:50:21,800
that I described. 
So we have a we have a set of 

928
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:25,900
sort of external funding 
accepting of cryptocurrency 

929
00:50:25,900 --> 00:50:28,800
discussions that we are having. 
Now we believe that those will 

930
00:50:28,900 --> 00:50:31,600
option out. 
You know, in the next six months

931
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,900
I will have some answers from 
accounts and financing about how

932
00:50:33,900 --> 00:50:37,900
we can deal with cryptocurrency.
That's at that top level at the 

933
00:50:38,300 --> 00:50:42,300
business process level we did a 
hackathon in Kazakhstan that was

934
00:50:42,300 --> 00:50:44,000
amazing. 
We're going to do another one in

935
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,600
the end of the first quarter of 
this year with another UNICEF 

936
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,700
country office where we're going
to bring the some of the 

937
00:50:48,707 --> 00:50:52,000
Kazakhstan stuff to another 
region and be like this is the 

938
00:50:52,008 --> 00:50:53,200
Smart contract. 
We described. 

939
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,800
Here's how it could work. 
Let's try it in another office 

940
00:50:56,500 --> 00:51:00,200
so we should have some internal 
momentum around that stuff. 

941
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,600
Bye. 
The end of quarter one and then 

942
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,000
we have Investments. 
So we've got an arm of our team 

943
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,400
that does direct capital 
investments in companies and we 

944
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,400
have a call out for blockchain 
related companies. 

945
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:16,600
Now that is a call for companies
that want 50 to 100 thousand 

946
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:21,000
dollars of capital investment 
and that's described on on our 

947
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:24,500
website as well and we hope that
will be funding five to six 

948
00:51:24,500 --> 00:51:28,500
companies in the coming months 
that call closes at the end of 

949
00:51:28,500 --> 00:51:31,000
January. 
It usually takes a sixth Weeks 

950
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,800
to eight weeks to make our 
funding decisions. 

951
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:36,300
So we'd see those coming into 
play and of quarter to probably 

952
00:51:36,300 --> 00:51:39,400
realistically. 
So those are the three levels 

953
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,000
that were working on as well as 
some you know secret stuff that 

954
00:51:42,008 --> 00:51:43,600
we don't to pull the curtain 
back on too far. 

955
00:51:44,100 --> 00:51:48,500
Okay so it's good segue into our
next topic which is the The 

956
00:51:48,500 --> 00:51:51,400
Venture arm. 
I was actually surprised to hear

957
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:56,300
that the UN had like properly 
Venture funds to invest in 

958
00:51:56,300 --> 00:51:59,900
startups but I guess it's like 
any organization you need to 

959
00:51:59,900 --> 00:52:02,400
have that. 
Sort of spark of innovation that

960
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:07,100
comes from a from a very agile 
organization start-up. 

961
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,500
Can you sort of talk about the 
types of companies are investing

962
00:52:11,500 --> 00:52:14,900
in? 
And what are you looking for, in

963
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:16,600
the startups that you're 
investing in? 

964
00:52:17,500 --> 00:52:21,400
So, the fund is a relatively new
vehicle, Sunita grow today, and 

965
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:23,700
I co-founded it about two years 
ago. 

966
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:30,000
It it's based on, you know, our 
ideas of what what's best from 

967
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,800
the VC world. 
Which is like itself, a very 

968
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,100
dodgy Place sometimes and what's
best for the world of 

969
00:52:35,100 --> 00:52:36,500
development. 
And what we try to do is create 

970
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:39,600
a hybrid model where we went to 
our LPS and investors and we 

971
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,400
pitch them on an idea of 
creating value out of Open 

972
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,600
Source, intellectual property. 
So we said, look, what if we 

973
00:52:45,600 --> 00:52:48,300
don't want to hold on book 
assets for Unicef? 

974
00:52:48,300 --> 00:52:50,900
What if we want to create 
portfolios of Technology? 

975
00:52:50,900 --> 00:52:54,200
That's curated that goes back to
our LPS that has a worth. 

976
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,200
And if we could invest in five 
companies around data science in

977
00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,700
five countries that are 
interesting, you know, would 

978
00:52:59,700 --> 00:53:01,500
that five hundred thousand 
dollar, Dollar investment 

979
00:53:01,500 --> 00:53:03,400
potentially be worth more than 
500 thousand dollars. 

980
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,400
Our initial investors said that 
that was a reasonable 

981
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,400
hypothesis. 
They provided us with 12 and a 

982
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,600
half million dollars of initial 
investment money from for 

983
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,500
anchor, investors. 
And we've made our first seven 

984
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:21,800
or so ten Investments. 
Now into private companies, the 

985
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,200
fund only invest in companies 
that are registered in the 

986
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,800
countries that UNICEF works it 
which is interesting. 

987
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:31,100
So that's the 135 companies that
we go countries that we Program 

988
00:53:31,100 --> 00:53:34,400
countries. 
So that's not the not u.s. not 

989
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,400
Europe. 
We only invest in companies that

990
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:42,700
are registered as for profit. 
So we don't do nonprofit kind of

991
00:53:42,700 --> 00:53:44,700
Investments and we look at 
companies that have the 

992
00:53:44,700 --> 00:53:47,900
potential for growth in their 
technology space we combined a 

993
00:53:47,908 --> 00:53:51,400
set of companies. 
So Sean is currently alone in 

994
00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:53,800
the in the blockchain portfolio 
but we're going to find some 

995
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:56,300
other Investments to connect 
them with soon but in the space 

996
00:53:56,300 --> 00:53:59,700
of drones or data science, we 
try to bring groups of companies

997
00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:02,000
together given the Nicole 
support from our team and from 

998
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,600
our partners that they need and 
and help them grow faster by 

999
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:10,900
being open source and working 
together in these spaces are 

1000
00:54:10,900 --> 00:54:13,000
investments. 
Actually get us a lot more than 

1001
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:16,100
you'd think 100,000 other 
capital investment in Burundi is

1002
00:54:16,100 --> 00:54:19,100
quite a substantial investment 
to make. 

1003
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:22,100
And we find that these companies
can then grow to a second round 

1004
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:27,200
of investment to graduation into
acquisition and so on, and we're

1005
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,300
going to be seeing the first of 
those things happen in the next 

1006
00:54:29,300 --> 00:54:32,100
six months. 
We Also invest in some of the 

1007
00:54:32,107 --> 00:54:33,300
platforms that support this 
work. 

1008
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:35,700
So as I mentioned, we've got the
largest drone testing Corridor 

1009
00:54:35,700 --> 00:54:38,600
in the world for humanitarian 
purposes, that's an investment 

1010
00:54:38,700 --> 00:54:42,300
through the fund that is its own
asset class that supports the 

1011
00:54:42,300 --> 00:54:44,000
individual investment to make in
drone companies. 

1012
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,200
So if you're the drone company, 
we invested in Kenya, you can 

1013
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,900
come and use our Corridor for 
free, and that can accelerate 

1014
00:54:49,900 --> 00:54:52,800
your work. 
So the fund does those two 

1015
00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:55,900
things we are looking at and 
exploring, how we could have a 

1016
00:54:56,300 --> 00:54:59,700
crypto denominated fund that 
would work along the same lines 

1017
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:04,100
that is pending all of the 
review of the people that need 

1018
00:55:04,100 --> 00:55:06,900
to say that it's okay to do that
and it will break the system but

1019
00:55:06,900 --> 00:55:10,300
we feel very positively about 
that as a possibility and we're 

1020
00:55:10,300 --> 00:55:13,000
also looking at another stage a 
second round of the fund which 

1021
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,800
is shaped a little bit 
differently but but in general 

1022
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:18,100
the Investments that we've made 
cluster around these kind of 

1023
00:55:18,107 --> 00:55:21,200
emerging technologies that have 
100 billion dollar market cap 

1024
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,200
behind them or more and that can
address. 

1025
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:27,200
Fundamental human needs though 
not with an explicit social good

1026
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:28,700
Focus. 
It's just that the company has 

1027
00:55:28,700 --> 00:55:30,500
to be good like they have to 
have good. 

1028
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,700
So it's not a it's not a social 
impact Fund in that sense, that 

1029
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:36,500
that's very clear. 
And so, how big is this fund? 

1030
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,000
Its twelve point six million 
we've put out about 5 million of

1031
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:45,300
that and is it is it funded or 
where's the capital coming from?

1032
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:48,100
It's coming from UNICEF 
donations or are you have 

1033
00:55:48,100 --> 00:55:52,500
external funders nothing that we
do comes from the core UNICEF 

1034
00:55:52,500 --> 00:55:55,900
donations? 
So this is from for LPS 

1035
00:55:55,900 --> 00:55:59,200
therefore anchor investors who 
came in to governments and two 

1036
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,800
foundations They all have 
expressed sort of slightly 

1037
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:04,800
different interest in the 
valuation of the IP. 

1038
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,400
So some of the government's are 
interested in using the 

1039
00:56:07,700 --> 00:56:09,300
procedures or the companies that
we work with. 

1040
00:56:09,300 --> 00:56:12,400
In their own, internal arms, the
foundation's have similar 

1041
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:15,200
similar, the Divergent 
interests, we were very lucky to

1042
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,300
have Sean and his team present 
at our first LPS meeting in New 

1043
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:21,200
York a few months ago and show 
the progress that they've made 

1044
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,600
and we had really good comments 
from the people who've invested 

1045
00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:27,300
in our fund that show that the 
types of Technologies were 

1046
00:56:27,300 --> 00:56:29,100
investing in are actually 
pertinent to their work. 

1047
00:56:29,100 --> 00:56:31,900
So, you know, this is a Eating 
for the investors because they 

1048
00:56:31,900 --> 00:56:35,200
see something that they maybe 
aren't able to play with exactly

1049
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:39,000
at the speed that we are great. 
So I guess this is a good segue 

1050
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:44,800
then into into a section of the 
show with Sean and Sean has 

1051
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:48,800
received investment from from 
the UNICEF Venture fund, at 

1052
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,800
least one of the projects I was 
working on previously. 

1053
00:56:51,800 --> 00:56:55,900
Did and so Sean, can you tell us
about that experience? 

1054
00:56:55,900 --> 00:57:00,300
And how working with the UNICEF 
has benefited your your work? 

1055
00:57:00,700 --> 00:57:06,500
and you also talked about that 
about the XO foundation and this

1056
00:57:06,500 --> 00:57:11,800
idea of proof of impact So I 
think we're all familiar with 

1057
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:16,700
the general approach in Block 
Chain Solutions that you need to

1058
00:57:16,700 --> 00:57:18,300
start off with some proof of 
Concepts. 

1059
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:23,900
And so, we were provided with 
some Innovation, funding from an

1060
00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:27,100
innovation fund here, in South 
Africa, to do a proof of an imp 

1061
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:31,600
of of concept, in the context of
early, childhood development 

1062
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:37,400
solving a real world problem, 
which is how non-governmental 

1063
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,400
service providers, who are 
delivering Preschool services to

1064
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,000
children around about 800,000 
children in the country, make 

1065
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,200
their claims for a daily 
attendance subsidy which is paid

1066
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,800
by the government. 
Now, that's a boring problem. 

1067
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,700
It's, you know, making claims 
and getting paid for them. 

1068
00:57:56,300 --> 00:58:00,400
The problem that has been 
identified, there is lack of 

1069
00:58:00,400 --> 00:58:05,900
trust in the system or lack of 
administrative efficiency, and a

1070
00:58:05,900 --> 00:58:09,100
lot of gaps and lack of 
information around where the 

1071
00:58:09,100 --> 00:58:11,200
needs are And where the money's 
going. 

1072
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:16,200
And so we were approached to to 
provide a use case 

1073
00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:20,600
implementation, it sort of test 
of using Block Chain for this 

1074
00:58:20,600 --> 00:58:23,700
very sort of practical 
real-world problem. 

1075
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:29,100
And so we built a solution for 
that which is a product called 

1076
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:33,600
amply and and we thought that 
would take, you know, six months

1077
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:37,900
to a year to kind of prove out 
and scale up well, four years 

1078
00:58:37,900 --> 00:58:39,600
later and we've learned a lot of
lessons. 

1079
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:44,900
And we have a, we have not 
scaled that and and and we have 

1080
00:58:46,300 --> 00:58:49,100
150 thousand attendance has 
recorded and we're now going 

1081
00:58:49,100 --> 00:58:53,300
into into more production mode. 
But along the way, we know we 

1082
00:58:53,300 --> 00:58:58,500
needed to establish new kinds of
Partnerships to take this Beyond

1083
00:58:58,700 --> 00:59:02,900
one, use case and one local 
implementation into the global 

1084
00:59:03,300 --> 00:59:07,400
potential that this has Chris 
has spoken about establishing 

1085
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,200
platforms and and I think this 
is a Very important concept, you

1086
00:59:11,207 --> 00:59:16,100
know, with and an important 
possibility within the Block 

1087
00:59:16,100 --> 00:59:17,600
Chain. 
Also, if we at the broader sort 

1088
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:21,200
of set of Technologies, if we 
don't go beyond just distributed

1089
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:25,100
Ledger, we also talked about the
new web standards for the 

1090
00:59:25,100 --> 00:59:30,100
decentralized web and new data 
Technologies including machine 

1091
00:59:30,100 --> 00:59:32,100
learning and so on. 
All of these disruptive 

1092
00:59:32,100 --> 00:59:36,200
Technologies are coming together
in ways in which we can, we can 

1093
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:41,500
have a really transformative 
effect on How information is 

1094
00:59:41,500 --> 00:59:46,800
collected, how it, how its 
valued, how it's exchanged and 

1095
00:59:46,800 --> 00:59:50,600
therefore, the kinds of economy 
that we can we can enable 

1096
00:59:51,100 --> 00:59:53,700
through the use of information. 
And so, that's really where 

1097
00:59:53,700 --> 00:59:57,600
we've kind of migrated with the 
support from UNICEF, from a 

1098
00:59:57,600 --> 01:00:03,100
local implementation, on a very 
specific use case to a global 

1099
01:00:03,100 --> 01:00:06,700
potential and understanding that
we can we can take this 

1100
01:00:07,100 --> 01:00:09,600
fundamentally open source 
philosophy. 

1101
01:00:09,700 --> 01:00:14,700
Safiye and standards that align 
with what's happening within the

1102
01:00:14,700 --> 01:00:17,600
standard setting processes 
around the decentralized web and

1103
01:00:17,600 --> 01:00:20,100
take them into a protocol that 
becomes a platform. 

1104
01:00:20,100 --> 01:00:24,100
And so that's where the XO 
Foundation has kind of taken the

1105
01:00:24,100 --> 01:00:30,300
custodianship of this open 
source project and is seeking to

1106
01:00:31,900 --> 01:00:36,500
expand the the use cases of this
and the implementation of this 

1107
01:00:36,500 --> 01:00:41,100
across a broad set of users with
a growing network of Partners. 

1108
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:47,900
So what do you see as the future
here for the EXO foundation and 

1109
01:00:47,900 --> 01:00:49,700
the work that you're doing with 
UNICEF? 

1110
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,100
I mean, I suppose and I hope 
that that this work and this 

1111
01:00:54,100 --> 01:00:57,700
platform will then benefit 
organizations like UNICEF that 

1112
01:00:57,700 --> 01:01:00,900
raise funds and that, you know, 
want to build reputation around 

1113
01:01:00,900 --> 01:01:02,900
proof. 
Like some kind of proof of ever 

1114
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:06,000
that their work is providing 
some kind of an impact. 

1115
01:01:08,100 --> 01:01:14,100
Yeah so so the next phase is 
really being able to to 

1116
01:01:14,100 --> 01:01:18,500
systematize this and Chris has 
spoken about, you know, how once

1117
01:01:18,700 --> 01:01:24,600
Technologies are proven UNICEF 
has the reach and the scale 

1118
01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,300
through its country offices and 
through its Partnerships with 

1119
01:01:27,300 --> 01:01:30,600
other organizations, to be able 
to take things to scale. 

1120
01:01:30,600 --> 01:01:33,000
And I think that that's the 
really critical thing for us now

1121
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:34,900
you know. 
So it's been great doing the 

1122
01:01:34,900 --> 01:01:37,800
learning developing the The the 
tech and so on. 

1123
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:42,500
But how do we, how do we go to 
the next level and get adoption 

1124
01:01:42,500 --> 01:01:46,300
of these Technologies in ways 
that it can actually impact. 

1125
01:01:46,300 --> 01:01:51,500
On many, many people's lives. 
Now, we can't do that ourselves 

1126
01:01:51,500 --> 01:01:55,300
and we know we're not interested
in, in going in implementing 

1127
01:01:55,900 --> 01:02:01,100
the, the Solutions in all 
different contexts, what we want

1128
01:02:01,100 --> 01:02:05,200
to support is the platform that 
enables other people to build on

1129
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:08,300
that. 
So, The analogy, I guess, is in 

1130
01:02:08,300 --> 01:02:11,700
the way in which the theory of 
network and thorium smart 

1131
01:02:11,700 --> 01:02:17,100
contracts. 
Enable an open ecosystem to to 

1132
01:02:17,100 --> 01:02:21,600
exist creating applications on a
core protocol and the core set 

1133
01:02:21,600 --> 01:02:24,800
of capabilities around computer 
and data storage and so on. 

1134
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:29,300
Interesting. 
Well, I definitely do hope that 

1135
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:32,400
that you have a lot of great 
success in building this 

1136
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:36,100
platform that we see all kinds 
of applications being built that

1137
01:02:36,100 --> 01:02:39,900
are providing a lot of value to 
people who really need it. 

1138
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:43,600
And so, I believe it's just sort
of starting as a project and you

1139
01:02:43,600 --> 01:02:47,100
plan on launching this network. 
What's the roadmap here? 

1140
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:53,800
Yeah, so so that the first step 
has been to formalize the open 

1141
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:57,300
source project, you know, so in 
the same Same way as we have a 

1142
01:02:57,300 --> 01:03:01,000
kind of model around open source
foundations like the Linux 

1143
01:03:01,000 --> 01:03:03,700
Foundation Mozilla Foundation 
where 3 Consortium and so on. 

1144
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:09,500
We felt that the next step is to
establish this open source code 

1145
01:03:09,500 --> 01:03:17,100
base within an open community 
and fundation model and to bring

1146
01:03:17,100 --> 01:03:19,700
in key partners. 
And so UNICEF is one of the 

1147
01:03:19,707 --> 01:03:22,600
partners, we have Singularity 
University, Ventures where the 

1148
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:26,000
gold standard foundation, the 
number of other organizations. 

1149
01:03:26,200 --> 01:03:32,500
Then have an interest in, in 
applying the protocol into use 

1150
01:03:32,500 --> 01:03:36,900
cases through their networks. 
And so we focused mostly on 

1151
01:03:37,100 --> 01:03:42,700
organizations being participants
in the network that have got 

1152
01:03:42,700 --> 01:03:45,200
their own networks. 
And that creates of course, much

1153
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:50,600
bigger, net work effects and 
across the Different 

1154
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:55,700
organizations that that have 
have expressed an interest or 

1155
01:03:55,700 --> 01:03:58,800
have actually formed. 
There's a number of, very 

1156
01:03:58,800 --> 01:04:03,200
interesting use killer carbon 
carbon credits, terrorizing 

1157
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:06,300
other clean-burning, cookstoves,
and linking Health credits to 

1158
01:04:06,308 --> 01:04:13,200
that from the health prevention.
Benefits of clean-burning cook, 

1159
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:17,600
stoves and heating across to 
impact, bonds for education for 

1160
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:21,400
young women in India, or Early 
childhood development impact, 

1161
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:23,800
Bonds in South Africa. 
And so we have a whole range of 

1162
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,500
these cases which will provide 
us with further proof of the 

1163
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:35,200
utility of this protocol, but 
also add to the, the software, 

1164
01:04:36,300 --> 01:04:40,900
with reference implementations 
and, and a growing data set 

1165
01:04:41,200 --> 01:04:44,400
around around sustainable 
development initiatives. 

1166
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,600
Fantastic it's fascinating and 
so will. 

1167
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:54,200
We're going to have you back on 
in I guess a few months. 

1168
01:04:54,200 --> 01:05:00,900
So to talk more in depth about 
or at length about about EXO and

1169
01:05:00,900 --> 01:05:05,000
the protocol we can get into the
technical aspects of x0. 

1170
01:05:05,100 --> 01:05:06,300
So we're looking forward to 
that. 

1171
01:05:06,900 --> 01:05:09,100
Thank you very much to the both 
of you for coming on today is a 

1172
01:05:09,100 --> 01:05:13,200
fascinating discussion and I 
look forward to seeing you know 

1173
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:17,100
the the I guess I'm I'm going to
I'm just going to channel 

1174
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,700
Riesling Mark here. 
I'm looking forward to this you 

1175
01:05:20,700 --> 01:05:26,400
know humanist blockchain future 
where humanitarian work can be 

1176
01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:32,900
improved by by this technology 
and where organizations like 

1177
01:05:32,900 --> 01:05:39,100
UNICEF can be more accountable 
and where we can have actual 

1178
01:05:39,400 --> 01:05:42,500
proof of the impact that 
organizations are providing on 

1179
01:05:42,500 --> 01:05:44,600
the ground for liking kids in 
the sentence. 

1180
01:05:44,700 --> 01:05:49,300
In this, in this case. 
So good job to both of you for 

1181
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,200
working on such a noble cause 
and thank you for coming out. 

1182
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,800
Thanks for having us. 
Thanks Sebastian. 

1183
01:05:57,500 --> 01:06:00,900
So thank you to our listeners 
for once again tuning in this 

1184
01:06:00,900 --> 01:06:03,200
show. 
And lots of other great shows 

1185
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:06,300
about blockchain and Bitcoin and
all the art Technologies can be 

1186
01:06:06,300 --> 01:06:09,700
found at left my Bitcoin.com. 
If you like the show, there's 

1187
01:06:09,700 --> 01:06:11,000
multiple ways you can support 
us. 

1188
01:06:11,000 --> 01:06:13,300
One of the ways you can leave us
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1189
01:06:13,300 --> 01:06:15,900
It helps people find the show 
and you're always happy to see 

1190
01:06:15,900 --> 01:06:18,900
reviews and you can also leave 
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1191
01:06:18,900 --> 01:06:21,700
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1192
01:06:21,700 --> 01:06:23,200
Addresses will be in the 
description. 

1193
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:25,200
Thanks so much and I look 
forward to being back. 

1194
01:06:25,300 --> 01:06:26,200
That's next week. 
That's next week.