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Welcome to epicenter of the show
which talks about the 

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Technologies projects and people
driving decentralization and the

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blockchain revolution. 
I'm Sebastian cuchillo and to 

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this is episode 4 89 today. 
I'm speaking with Barry AKA 

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Shaolin of Dimension dimension. 
Is a protocol to build 

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application-specific Roll-Ups 
and they are building this as a 

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Cosmos app chain. 
I go deep into application roll 

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ups on Cosmos with Barry in this
episode, this episode is 

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actually recorded on my podcast 
the interop, which is a podcast 

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where I dive deep with Founders 
and builders in the cosmos and 

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interchain ecosystem. 
If you want to subscribe to 

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that, you can find it on 
YouTube. 

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Just search for the interop and 
I record weekly episodes there. 

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And we're posting it here this 
week on epicenter because we 

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thought this was an interesting 
topic that you guys would also 

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appreciate. 
So, without further Ado, here's 

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my conversation with Barry of 
dimension Hey Barry. 

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How's it going? 
Glad to be on it. 

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Yeah, thanks for joining me. 
This is been like trying to plan

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this for a long time and I'm 
glad you're finally getting it 

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getting to around to it. 
And like Dimension is, it's a 

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product and a protocol that like
I've seen a lot of. 

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Obviously, you guys are 
everywhere on Twitter and, you 

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know, sort of announcing cool 
Partnerships. 

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And but haven't spent a lot of 
time like Diving deep into the 

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protocol. 
I've done a lot of research for 

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this. 
I've got it's like tons of 

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questions and so to really get 
to the bottom of how to mention 

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Works, how it scales, how it 
allows developers to build 

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scalable applications. 
But also I want to talk about 

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how you know how the how the 
narrative around scaling is 

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changed over the last couple 
years. 

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I think, you know, people don't 
realize just how much that whole

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narrative is change and how much
Roll-Ups and interoperability 

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infrastructures is And that's 
the truth. 

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So thanks for coming on and 
great for we have this 

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conversation. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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I know, we talked about me 
coming on about like, two months

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ago and I was like, wait for 
test. 

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Net will schedule something. 
Then something called through, 

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we release tested in February. 
Now, it's at the end of March, 

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and we're releasing another 
stage of testing its own. 

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So we could talk about that as 
well, but there's so much to 

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cover. 
So, like where do we start? 

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Yeah, well, I think we can start
with Yeah, a little bit about 

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yourself and how do you, how you
came to become part of this team

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and how you got in the crypto, 
right? 

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So, my name is Barry I'm kind of
like, I'm a DJ pretty much. 

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I've been in cryptos for a 
decade or now or so in the weeds

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out of the wheat in the pin like
the community aspect in the 

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technical aspect into business 
aspect, I starting to crypto in 

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2013, if I remember correctly 
mid-2013 in the Dogecoin 

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community. 
Those were Good Times where it's

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like you're skating by kind of 
the law with the Silk Road back 

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then and the Bitcoins and the 
Dogecoin where we were 

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fundraising. 
The Jamaican bobsledding team. 

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If anyone recalls correctly I do
I do that was one of the first 

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epicenter episodes we really 
were talking about this. 

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Yeah we're talking about dos. 
Go ahead funded. 

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The Jamaican bobsled team. 
Oh my God. 

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That's right. 
Yeah so like that's what that's 

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what That's what brought me into
crypto like back. 

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Then when people are just 
tipping each other on Reddit. 

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That's what like the community 
aspect is, what brought me a lot

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of people in my, in my position 
come from the technical aspect 

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and I studied Engineering in 
University and different 

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business courses and degrees. 
But what really keeps me here is

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the community and what brought 
me here was Community back then.

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Over time I worked in different 
jobs, different protocols And I 

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came with the team. 
The team is founded in Israel 

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with the by a bunch of Engineers
phds and business people. 

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They were working in the ZK 
space with primarily on the 

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Stark Stark ecosystem. 
And then they were like, Hey, 

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we're moving to the customers 
ecosystem, and they talked to me

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about me coming in as a leading 
product and for me product is 

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awesome because I could hear 
like, what the community wants, 

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where the tech is, you kind of 
put the pieces together. 

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Weather. 
So for me I think it's a it's 

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been a great experience. 
It's been a great learning 

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experience because there's so 
much to learn and every day the 

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protocols are evolving for 
myself for the community, for 

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the all of the protocols that 
are leading, the charge in the 

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modular space in the role of 
space, everything's changing. 

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So rapidly, all this new 
information and then the quick 

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reiteration and implementation 
into the products, is one of 

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those things that kind of rare 
in web. 

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But very A common in crypto is 
like this rapid pace of 

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innovation and people may not 
see it in like the token prices.

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But the tech is going crazy. 
The tech is really expanding and

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as you said the roll-up 
architectures and the role of 

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idea is really just kind of gone
out of proportion now and like 

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everyone's building roll-ups 
Yeah it's crazy. 

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How the narrative is changed in 
the last couple of years 

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because, you know, scaling has 
been sort of a topic that has 

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followed me and my crippled 
career. 

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You know, I started about the 
same time as you and you 

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obviously there was like the 
Bitcoin scaling debates, right? 

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And a lot of the kind of 
primitive arguments or The 

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Primitives for the arguments of 
scaling began then and then you 

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Theory, mm started having And 
it's issues with scaling and 

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then, you know, there have been 
multiple conversations and sort 

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of evolving narratives around a 
theorem scaling over the last 

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like 7 years. 
And and now it seems like There 

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are people have more ideas about
how to scale decentralised 

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applications, but it just still 
feels like there's, you know, 

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tons of solutions for scaling. 
Nobody has like a clear. 

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There isn't like a Clear Vision 
for scaling. 

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There's like multiple Visions 
for scaling you how, how do you 

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perceive this narrative change 
over the last couple of years 

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and you know what's been sort of
the Excel or the major 

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accelerator for where we're at 
now, in terms of scaling, So, 

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it's an interesting point 
because customers also scales, 

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right? 
You have etherium, which is the 

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idea of ethereum is like this 
world computer, where everyone 

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does the financial transactions 
and on financial transactions 

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and there's like this 
decentralized world computer, 

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whereas Kosmos comes in a few 
years later after you theorems 

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launch and they say, hey, we 
could have these Sovereign 

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interoperable communities. 
None of it doesn't have to just 

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be one chain and I thought that 
was Really cool like you have 

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these interoperable change 
versus this one computer where 

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everyone is kind of fighting for
Block space and that was the 

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issue with your theory was like 
you have like Arbitron come 

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along at like more recently at 
least and optimism and they're 

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doing these Roll-Ups 
quote-unquote where there are 

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processing. 
These transactions off chain and

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putting the data and and state 
on train but it's kind of 

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different than the cosmos idea. 
Which was you can have these 

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Sovereign communities in these 
applications. 

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And then interact with each 
other more a singly or more like

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cross chain and this is where it
kind of Dimension comes in is 

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that they look at Arbitron and 
optimism scaling the idea of one

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block chain the main blocking of
a theory minute. 

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Whereas dementia comes in and 
says hey Cosmos is amazing idea.

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It's really incredible. 
Interoperability the tech that 

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they built out the tender moment
and IBC from the cosmos. 

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Has been built out and it's been
standardized and formalized and 

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we could expand on that, by 
doing these Roll-Ups on top of 

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the cosmos. 
So, instead of scaling one 

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chain, we're trying to scale a 
network of chains, so people can

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deploy rather than using a 
validator set up of 50 

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validators or 100 validators, 
you can use one or two or three 

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nodes, but you're tapping into 
the decentralization of the 

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quote-unquote base layer, which 
is the dimension chain, which is

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a cosmos chain. 
And you're, you're inheriting 

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this like security or inheriting
this decentralisation, you're 

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inheriting, the stake that exist
on or the bond is a bond of 

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capital that exists on the on 
the cosmos change themselves. 

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So the idea is pretty much it's 
Roll-Ups, but instead of scaling

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one network, we're trying to 
scale network of Networks. 

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Yeah, I think for me, I think 
the first time I heard of this 

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idea of app chains was in 
Cancun. 

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Sunny was giving like a talk to 
a small group of people in a 

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hotel in one of the rooms at 
this hotel and presenting his 

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vision for app chains and it 
like it kind of clicked for me 

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at that moment. 
And that's when I think I really

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got on board the Hop chené 
Vision or have to chain thesis 

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and and started. 
Added looking at like these kind

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of sharding solutions that 
etherium are these. 

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Um, Community was discussing at 
the time as not long-term viable

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at least not the right kind of 
design choice. 

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And what's interesting is how, 
you know, I think one of the 

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prevailing narratives now is the
kind of like Sovereign roll ups 

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or Sovereign zones or you know, 
even obtain light things even in

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the evm world and how things 
have kind of come back around to

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that. 
Construction Earth at that 

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design pattern. 
How does Dimension borrow from 

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that design pattern? 
Yeah, so they mention in a way 

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can be seen as, like, a super 
modulized and broken apart. 

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If they're IAM, we have these 
execution charts which are the 

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Roll-Ups, then you have a 
settlement layer in between, 

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which is the, you know, theorem 
a net smart contracts. 

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Then you have these data layers 
which are could be like data, 

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availability, committees or 
Nothing any theorem for 

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Dimension and how it integrates 
into Cosmos and how it scales. 

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The cosmos is that you have 
these execution charts, which 

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are the Roll-Ups, and therefore 
the user, it's just like, 

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interacting with the cosmos 
blockchain. 

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You have the minting. 
You have the banking, you have 

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the staking, or a different 
forms of staking. 

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And there's some adjustments to 
the customer says decayed that 

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we make for the as like the rdk,
the role of development kit. 

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And then you have the sediment 
layer in between, which is the 

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dimension Hub and it's Ausmus 
Block Chain, that connects all 

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the pieces together, and then 
you have these da layers and 

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like a primary one would be like
a Celestial, which people are 

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very familiar with now. 
And it's going to be the most 

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scalable da because they're 
using like client sampling. 

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And these really cool mechanisms
but in Dimensions eyes any 

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Cosmos chain can be a 
blockchain. 

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It can be a DA layer. 
So all they have to do is be 

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able to accept that data done 
from a rollup, just post the 

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data to that block chain and the
state route to the I mentioned 

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help and then it kind of 
connects all the pieces with 

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IBC. 
So in a way you can consider it 

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like a super module lies and 
broken apart if cerium. 

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But also it's also scaling the 
network of blockchains of Cosmo 

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solo. 
As you said, the idea is kind of

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mesh together and you start 
getting these fuzzy barriers 

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that you see like Sovereign 
blockchains on etherea. 

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You see smart contracts on 
Kosmos but in truth the the 

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ecosystems kind of mesh 
together. 

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Eventually I think they will 
enter upper interoperate with 

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each other when like there's 
like Starks like clients and IBC

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working back and forth. 
Hmm. 

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Yeah before we get into 
Dimension there's there's one 

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thing I want to talk about and 
sort of ask you about and so 

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when we're talking about 
Roll-Ups you know when we 

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there's there's all sorts of 
terms of those thrown around, 

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like there's The Sovereign roll 
up. 

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There's execution Roll-Ups, we 
were talking earlier before the 

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show but validity M's. 
Oh yeah, yeah, I still have a 

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hard time, wrapping my head 
around, how these things are 

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different, in terms of their 
sovereignty, in terms of the, 

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the developer experience. 
But also the use cases, for 

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which each of these and maybe 
other, you know, like Celestia 

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Amanda. 
Yeah. 

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How each of these and then also,
you know, thinking about that in

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the context of app chains and 
smart contracts. 

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How do how do you see the 
differences between these 

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different things? 
And From server configurations 

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and how should developers reason
about which Jews when building 

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an application? 
Yeah, I agree with you. 

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I think that's one of the most 
unfortunate things about 

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blockchain is that all of the 
definitions are fragmented. 

226
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:31,200
So you have people on the 
etherium saying, like a rollup 

227
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:36,700
has to be has to use the same 
L1, or blockchain for posting 

228
00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:39,500
transaction data for posting 
State updates. 

229
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,600
And all has to be contained to 
get like full security from that

230
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,700
chain. 
That's arguable. 

231
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,500
That's understandable as well. 
You can also say that a rollup 

232
00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:54,600
just processes transaction off 
chain and post it on chain, and 

233
00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:59,200
then that's also a rollup. 
But in essence, what, what? 

234
00:13:59,500 --> 00:14:02,200
Roll-Ups versus Sovereign rule 
those verses and try and rollers

235
00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:05,200
forces will idioms. 
It really just depends on where 

236
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,100
the X off chain execution, 
client post, the data and, and 

237
00:14:09,100 --> 00:14:12,500
the state. 
So, for example, on it cerium, 

238
00:14:12,500 --> 00:14:17,400
it's considered a rollup. 
If it uses ethereum a net, full 

239
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,500
economic and fold, decentralized
security, to post transaction 

240
00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,100
data, and State updates for a 
sovereign rule. 

241
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:29,700
Look, there's like these new 
these new phenomenons that are 

242
00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:33,600
arising from like using these 
specialized block change called 

243
00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,300
da layers or what's commonly 
known as Celestia as one of the 

244
00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:42,600
protocols building this and it 
just it post the data on chain 

245
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,000
and then it handles the state. 
And settlement kind of on their 

246
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,900
own layer on there. 
But so it's, you can argue 

247
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:53,200
either way. 
I think it's much easier to say,

248
00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,800
like, what's an L2 and what's an
L1 versus, what's a roll of 

249
00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,200
verses and what's not a rollup. 
So, Sovereign Roll-Ups pretty 

250
00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:06,000
much RL once that post data to 
select you and etherium 

251
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,700
Roll-Ups, don't are l2s because 
they the smart contract on the 

252
00:15:10,700 --> 00:15:13,700
etherium manages, what is the 
proper Fork? 

253
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,500
What is the The the correct 
State and what is the correct 

254
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:20,800
chain? 
So for 40 Laps on Dimension, 

255
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:24,000
like that's the that this 
definition of like. 

256
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:27,600
What's the correct chain is 
defined on the dimension hub for

257
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,900
Sovereign Roll-Ups and Celestia 
that definition of like, what's 

258
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,400
the correct chain is defined on 
the roller player and not on 

259
00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,600
Celestial for etherium that 
that's defined on the smart 

260
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,400
contract? 
Even though there's a lot of 

261
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,500
debate in the Athenian world 
that I tried did not get into to

262
00:15:44,500 --> 00:15:49,000
but because a lot of people talk
about semantics but practically 

263
00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:55,600
for the for the developer 
security matters, a lot but it's

264
00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:59,400
kind of like choosing the 
toolset from the cosmos with 

265
00:15:59,500 --> 00:16:03,000
Dimension included or choosing 
the toolset from etherium with 

266
00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:05,600
like the Opie stack. 
So I think those are kind of 

267
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:09,500
like the Divergent paths right 
now which is the cosmos SDK 

268
00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:12,700
versus the Opie stack which is 
getting much more popular. 

269
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,300
But in terms of like what, It's 
Sovereign was not, that's kind 

270
00:16:17,300 --> 00:16:21,500
of people could argue semantics 
all the whole time and whatnot. 

271
00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:24,200
But the most important thing is 
like bringing users and bring 

272
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,600
applications and bring a 
developer's. 

273
00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:32,800
Yeah, I think that what I'm, you
know, one of the things that 

274
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:37,700
strikes me here is that, you 
know, we're looking for years, 

275
00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:39,800
we've talking about like how to 
scale blockchains how to skate, 

276
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:41,300
like how do we scale 
blockchains? 

277
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,000
But it almost feels like the 
wrong target, you know, we don't

278
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:48,400
need to scale blockchains. 
We need to scale, decentralized,

279
00:16:48,700 --> 00:16:51,800
censorship, resistant 
applications. 

280
00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:57,600
And the way we end up with 
applications that That inherent 

281
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,900
the properties of blockchains 
and that their sensors are 

282
00:17:00,908 --> 00:17:02,700
persistent. 
They're secure, they're 

283
00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:04,700
immutable, right? 
Like all the things that sort of

284
00:17:04,708 --> 00:17:06,500
came from Bitcoin. 
The way we scale those 

285
00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:10,400
applications is by having 
infrastructure that allows them 

286
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,200
to retain those properties 
while. 

287
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,900
But while the usable right, and 
it doesn't really matter what 

288
00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:20,700
underlying infrastructure there 
is, and you might want to, you 

289
00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:23,400
might reason about okay, which 
which are the trade-offs that 

290
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,500
your application is going to 
make on this? 

291
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,400
Kind of like watching trilemma 
for each of those layers, but 

292
00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:34,200
you can sort of, you know, you 
can, you can decouple. 

293
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:37,600
And that's where the modular 
Block Chain thesis trying to do,

294
00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,100
right? 
You decouple each of those 

295
00:17:39,100 --> 00:17:42,500
layers, such that application. 
Retains. 

296
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:45,400
Those properties, even though 
there isn't like a one thing 

297
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,800
underneath it, that is fully 
decentralized and then and we 

298
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,700
haven't gotten into yet like, 
you know, decentralizing other 

299
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:56,700
parts of the infrastructure like
the RBC like, you know, the 

300
00:17:56,900 --> 00:17:59,700
Wallet and this sort of thing. 
But, but ultimately I think 

301
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:03,000
that's like a good way to look 
at where things are going is 

302
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,700
that we need to keep our eye on 
the prize, which is the user, 

303
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,400
what the user interacts with 
needs to retain the properties 

304
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,200
of a blockchain, the 
infrastructure itself. 

305
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,900
You know, we can we can break 
that up in a million pieces and 

306
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:19,700
probably will write. 
If we look at how technology and

307
00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:22,600
like internet technology has 
evolved over the last 30 years, 

308
00:18:22,700 --> 00:18:24,700
that's exactly what happened. 
And this is probably what it 

309
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,900
also is. 
This also Happening Here I think

310
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:31,900
decentralization is a scope 
business Spectrum. 

311
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,900
So there is Bitcoin on one end 
where you can run your full node

312
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:38,800
from Genesis and be sure. 
Like, you're on the proper 

313
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,600
chain, then there's chains like 
it cerium where you're kind of 

314
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,800
either delegating tokens to a 
protocol that lives on the 

315
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,000
protocol which lives on the 
term, a net, like light or 

316
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,300
rockapulco and you're not really
running your notary or you're 

317
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:56,500
running your note from snapshots
like from a particular state. 

318
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,200
And that's kind of the same 
thing with Cosmos change where 

319
00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:02,900
most people are running their 
full node to interact with the 

320
00:19:02,900 --> 00:19:06,400
system. 
So you got, you know, you have 

321
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,500
to choose as a developer more so
than a user because the user 

322
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:14,600
doesn't really know which chain 
as like a regular user, as a 

323
00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,200
regular user, they don't know, 
like which changes decentralized

324
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,800
which chain is it? 
Like, they're not really 

325
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,600
comparing the centralization 
aspects of our optimism or 

326
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:26,500
Arbitron men, you know, we give 
it, we let that for the experts.

327
00:19:26,900 --> 00:19:30,200
But for the user like they just 
want to make sure that they're 

328
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,200
secure that they're not going to
lose funds that they're not 

329
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,000
going to lose funds by like some
weird creature attacks or 

330
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,600
attacks in general. 
But decentralization is expect 

331
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:44,200
from for both for developers to 
understand and core blockchain 

332
00:19:44,300 --> 00:19:46,500
developers as well. 
So depth developers and 

333
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:48,900
blockchain developers like 
Bitcoin. 

334
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,200
Is one of the and probably is 
the most decentralized protocol 

335
00:19:54,300 --> 00:19:57,500
just because you can run a full 
node from Genesis and know that 

336
00:19:57,500 --> 00:20:00,400
you're on the right train. 
Yeah. 

337
00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:04,700
I mean I'd love to talk more 
about, you know, this kind of 

338
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,700
high level Vision stuff and this
is the stuff I find often the 

339
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:10,200
most interesting. 
There's there's one last thing I

340
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,700
want to talk to you about before
we get into Dimension and 

341
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:18,000
talking with more technical 
things is I mentioned at the top

342
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,300
that you you don't think that 
interchange security should 

343
00:20:22,300 --> 00:20:25,700
scale to more than five chains. 
So of course you're referring to

344
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,100
Cosmos interchange security. 
Why don't you think that 

345
00:20:29,100 --> 00:20:30,800
interests you? 
Purity should scale to more than

346
00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:35,300
five chains. 
Interesting, security puts more 

347
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:39,300
effort on the validators. 
So if I'm Bo validator and I 

348
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:45,000
want to secure or Adam wants to 
secure, for example, 10 chains, 

349
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:48,400
50 chains. 
Then in its current version, I'm

350
00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:50,700
not saying the future versions 
because the future versions. 

351
00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:55,500
Kind of partition the the work 
that each validator needs to do,

352
00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,300
but in this current version, I 
don't think it could scale more 

353
00:20:58,300 --> 00:21:01,800
than like five. 
It's just because you start 

354
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,900
centralizing, the applications 
that you want to make sure 

355
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,000
you're not hurting the actual, 
the atoms value as you're 

356
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,000
getting more and more chains. 
So you don't want to start 

357
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,700
deploying a bunch of chains, 
kind of kind of shit coins that 

358
00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:22,900
devalue the Adams efforts 
because each validator is 

359
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:27,200
staking their that same atom, 
and that same amount of capital 

360
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,200
for each individual chain. 
So as You grow the amount of 

361
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,100
chains, the likelihood for those
chains to compensate for that 

362
00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:39,900
effort is probably negligible 
where there's like a negative 

363
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,300
expected value. 
As you increase the amount of 

364
00:21:42,308 --> 00:21:45,100
chains but there are chains that
I think should be secure from 

365
00:21:45,100 --> 00:21:50,500
day, one like USD, see a generic
acid acid, issuance chain, a 

366
00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:54,000
liquid state, and derivative 
chain things that really flow in

367
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,900
The Interchange. 
So you don't want to, you don't 

368
00:21:55,900 --> 00:21:57,900
want those to be economically 
attacked. 

369
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,500
But those chains that like, 
There's no reason for them to be

370
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:06,400
secured by 5950. 
They wish three billion dollars 

371
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:10,800
in market cap but you know, 
that's kind of my opinion. 

372
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:13,200
I think it makes sense 
especially for validators after 

373
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,800
speaking with a lot of 
validators. 

374
00:22:15,500 --> 00:22:18,400
Like they don't want to secure 
every chain or they don't want 

375
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,100
to run the binaries of every 
chain, just because that team 

376
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:26,600
decided to participate. 
They want to do things that are 

377
00:22:26,608 --> 00:22:29,600
both economic economically, 
beneficial for themselves. 

378
00:22:29,900 --> 00:22:32,900
And by products, the atom token 
as well. 

379
00:22:34,300 --> 00:22:38,700
Yeah, that makes sense. 
I mean I'm I think you're like, 

380
00:22:38,700 --> 00:22:44,300
I think that obviously things 
like noble some like a liquid, 

381
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:50,100
staking solution things that are
kind of core to the cosmos Hub 

382
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:51,800
and more. 
Broadly, the cosmos ecosystem 

383
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,200
and I think it makes sense. 
Also, those are the things I 

384
00:22:54,208 --> 00:22:56,600
think that for validators can 
make money. 

385
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,100
But, you know, I don't see a 
point for like having a 

386
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,500
Chihuahua chain or something. 
Similar to that or, you know, 

387
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:10,300
some like kind of user. 
I think I think that interchange

388
00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:16,400
security should be reserved for,
Infrastructure or defy 

389
00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:20,400
Primitives primarily, you know, 
for Adam, right? 

390
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,200
Because I think other chains are
considering you interchange 

391
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,700
security as their own chain as 
well. 

392
00:23:24,700 --> 00:23:29,200
So like if you're watching 
wanted to secure other 

393
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,000
chihuahuas or other, your key 
chains that that makes sense. 

394
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,800
But for Adam because Adam is 
like a special chain, is the 

395
00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,200
first chain in the cosmos. 
So I think it should secure as 

396
00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:49,100
like as Corps of entertaining 
protocols, as there are Yeah, 

397
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:51,800
absolutely. 
All right, so let's let's talk 

398
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,500
about the mention. 
We've gone on long enough here. 

399
00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:57,100
Yeah. 
So can you describe the 

400
00:23:57,100 --> 00:24:02,900
different components of, of 
Dimension and you looking at 

401
00:24:02,900 --> 00:24:04,800
each layer? 
So, you know, we have like roll 

402
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,000
apps. 
There's the dimensions and you 

403
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,700
talked about this a little bit 
earlier, but let's break each 

404
00:24:08,700 --> 00:24:11,400
layer down and how they interact
with each other. 

405
00:24:11,900 --> 00:24:14,100
Yeah. 
So they mention I consider and 

406
00:24:14,300 --> 00:24:17,800
it's kind of like a subjective 
consideration and point of view 

407
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,300
even though I'm not They're of 
the train. 

408
00:24:19,300 --> 00:24:22,800
One of the builders I believe 
Dimension is the layer 2 of the 

409
00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,600
cosmos and it's the layer of to 
of modular block chains. 

410
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,700
And the layer, one of Cosmos are
the monolithic app drinks. 

411
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:35,100
Now Dimension club with is a 
cosmos blockchain that is 

412
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,400
similar to other customers 
blockchains like osmosis Juno 

413
00:24:38,500 --> 00:24:40,400
and others that they're 
different Implement 

414
00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:44,700
implementation but it at its 
core is attendants Cosmos, SDK 

415
00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,800
train or comment FB t, v of T. 
Sorry. 

416
00:24:49,100 --> 00:24:53,100
It's connected via ABC to other 
customers chains. 

417
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,300
And then what happens is on this
Dimension layer to our, these 

418
00:24:57,300 --> 00:25:00,400
modular block games, the modular
block chains and why it, why are

419
00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:02,800
they modular block things are 
not monolithic block Chains, 

420
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,000
It's because they handle 
execution or transaction 

421
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,400
processing off chain. 
You get very low latency and 

422
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,700
then they post the data on chain
and the state routes on train. 

423
00:25:12,700 --> 00:25:16,100
So someone could easily verify a
like this data. 

424
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:18,500
Doesn't match the state route. 
I downloaded it. 

425
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,300
So like what's going on? 
So they can submit what is 

426
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:24,300
called a false proof or far, 
proof or invalidity proof 

427
00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:28,300
whatever you want to call it. 
So that's the point of Dimension

428
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:31,900
is that they mentioned the all 
the Roll-Ups are modular Block 

429
00:25:31,900 --> 00:25:34,500
Chain. 
So it's a ecosystem of layer to 

430
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:39,800
block chains in the kind of IBC 
world that those roll apps. 

431
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,700
For example, they're not using 
the cosmos SDK and 10 different 

432
00:25:43,900 --> 00:25:47,100
of what a cosmos blockchain 
actually does or uses. 

433
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:51,800
They use what is called the 
roll-up development kit or the 

434
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:56,200
rdk for short and replaces, or 
changes, a few of the modules of

435
00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,000
the Confluence SDK for not 
having validators. 

436
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:03,700
Instead of they have a 
sequencer, so it's kind of like 

437
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:08,900
this block producer that post 
the data off chain and then they

438
00:26:08,900 --> 00:26:13,200
use diamonds, which is a fork of
Ten tournament on 10 different 

439
00:26:13,300 --> 00:26:17,400
optimization, which was 
initially a year ago, forked 

440
00:26:17,500 --> 00:26:20,900
From that protocol, that 
protocol Optimum is built by 

441
00:26:20,900 --> 00:26:24,300
dyslexia team for building 
Sovereign Roll-Ups. 

442
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,900
But instead of that, we decided 
to remove that aspect of 

443
00:26:27,900 --> 00:26:32,400
sovereignty on the, on the 
roller player and it post the 

444
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:36,900
data to a dealer like Celestia 
and it post the state to 

445
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,300
Dimension. 
So in shrines Dimension, as a 

446
00:26:40,300 --> 00:26:43,400
settlement layer. 
Now once this provide, why not 

447
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,500
use a stubborn roll up instead 
of a rollup? 

448
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:55,000
Is because the, the speed, you 
get a significant speed 

449
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:59,000
increases when you're using 
enshrined sediment layer versus 

450
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,800
a sovereign, roll up. 
So, Sovereign Roll-Ups, they 

451
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:05,700
gossip the blocks to each other 
per block per block. 

452
00:27:05,900 --> 00:27:10,200
So like there's a sequencer 
opposed to a DA layer and then 

453
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,300
all the nodes in the network 
communicate with one another and

454
00:27:13,300 --> 00:27:16,500
like they see if like the 
updated state is the correct 

455
00:27:16,500 --> 00:27:19,200
one. 
It's like one block, one block, 

456
00:27:19,300 --> 00:27:22,500
one block, you can imagine it's 
much slower than what it 

457
00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,600
Roll-Ups doing. 
What Roll-Ups do is that there's

458
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,900
a sequencer that batches all 
these mini blocks together. 

459
00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:30,900
So you get very low latency of 
like right now, we're running a 

460
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:35,800
test out of 0.1. 
Second finale, SL finality on 

461
00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:41,600
the roll up and it both the 
batch of blocks to the DA layer 

462
00:27:41,900 --> 00:27:44,900
and the post the state routes to
the set of a layer. 

463
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:49,400
And a set of new layer has a 
period of x amount of blocks to 

464
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:53,300
say, hey, someone can submit a 
fraud proof or a dispute and 

465
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:58,000
say, hey, like this block 
producer Xbox ago, said it was 

466
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,800
that the state was supposed to 
be wide, but it's really X. 

467
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,200
So, the dimension help is the 
arbitrary or between the 

468
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,400
ecosystem. 
And this is like the difference 

469
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:10,300
between several types and what 
are roll ups which is kind of 

470
00:28:10,308 --> 00:28:15,400
like enshrinement of the 
sediment layer. okay, so I've 

471
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,500
got a couple questions here 
about a basically, like why 

472
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,300
you're building this. 
So what I was reading. 

473
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:27,700
So I read through the white 
paper and it sounds like this 

474
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,400
roll-up development kit. 
This rdk is a fork of the cosmos

475
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:41,300
SDK or which has new modules 
that enable Roll-Ups to be 

476
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:46,300
deployed. 
I guess you're in terms of 

477
00:28:46,300 --> 00:28:53,100
efficiency, and You a leveraging
existing infrastructure. 

478
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:56,700
What makes it? 
Maybe I'm missing something 

479
00:28:56,700 --> 00:28:57,700
here. 
You like maybe this is a stupid 

480
00:28:57,700 --> 00:29:01,600
question, but why why not just 
build those modules into the 

481
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:06,900
cosmos SDK? 
And allow basically any existing

482
00:29:06,900 --> 00:29:11,200
cost was to seek a chain to 
support role apps so that you 

483
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,900
could have like Roll-Ups on the 
cosmos chain and you'll benefit 

484
00:29:13,900 --> 00:29:18,200
from its security or Roll-Ups on
on osmosis and benefit from it 

485
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,100
security. 
Why why build an entirely new 

486
00:29:21,100 --> 00:29:24,200
infrastructure to do this? 
When we already have things that

487
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,100
are A highly secured that can 
provide data availability and 

488
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:31,700
settlement just, you know, 
building those modules into 

489
00:29:31,700 --> 00:29:33,800
those chains. 
Or is there some is that 

490
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,100
possible or like my totally 
missing something here? 

491
00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:40,400
I think it's possible. 
But what dimension provides is 

492
00:29:40,500 --> 00:29:46,700
the ability to arbitrate and to 
prove a different environments. 

493
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:50,300
That is the correct environment.
So for example, if you have a 

494
00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:57,100
roll up onto injective If I'm 
not mistaken and it's a salon of

495
00:29:57,100 --> 00:30:02,700
roll up and injective is a was 
mm, then the objective has to be

496
00:30:02,700 --> 00:30:07,000
able to understand the what's 
going on in the state machine 

497
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,300
logic and everything. 
What's going on the roll up? 

498
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:14,400
So what we say like, yeah, 
change, don't need to go crazy 

499
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,700
and start beefing up their there
that minimalistic app chains and

500
00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:22,500
become sediment layers and da 
layers because it's quite a 

501
00:30:22,500 --> 00:30:26,200
complicated process. 
For actually Lee understanding 

502
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:32,100
different execution environments
to actually handle the proofs to

503
00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:36,600
verify the proofs of either, ZK,
proofs or Bolivia or proofs. 

504
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:39,500
So it Dimension does. 
It's two things. 

505
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:43,000
One, it says the cosmos chains. 
They don't have to do anything. 

506
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:47,100
All they have to do is be able 
to accept data and then the 

507
00:30:47,100 --> 00:30:50,500
roll-up can post the data to 
that Cosmos blockchain. 

508
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,700
So the demand for the token and 
the demand From the Block space 

509
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:55,900
of the car, Was Block Chain 
increases. 

510
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,900
So, it inherits a part of the 
security from the da layer. 

511
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,600
And that's because all the 
transaction data doesn't go to 

512
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,100
Dimension. 
It goes to the DA layer and 

513
00:31:05,100 --> 00:31:08,700
that's either osmosis osmosis 
Roll-Ups F. 

514
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:11,300
Most for Emily. 
Evm. 

515
00:31:11,300 --> 00:31:13,800
Roll-Ups Celestia for 
generalized. 

516
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,500
Roll up that don't want to pick 
a specific app chain because 

517
00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:21,000
that's kind of like the core is 
dimensioned. 

518
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,000
People say it's Roll-Ups, it's 
really. 

519
00:31:24,300 --> 00:31:27,700
More similar to the lithium's in
the sense that the role of 

520
00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:31,000
sequencer decides. 
Hey, which change. 

521
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:35,100
I posted data which block space 
is gonna which block space. 

522
00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:38,800
And am I going to pay for? 
So the, for the actions that 

523
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,300
already exist, they don't have 
to change much, you don't have 

524
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:45,600
to change anything for a lot of 
them, but for why is dimension 

525
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,200
build in the middle? 
Is because it handles those 

526
00:31:49,300 --> 00:31:52,600
different virtual environments. 
Those different execution 

527
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,800
environments that handles the 
proofs The ZK proves, the 

528
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,400
optimistic, proofs, and that's 
the purpose, and then it becomes

529
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,600
a bridging Hub between all of 
it. 

530
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:04,900
But the ropes themselves, they 
still inherit a lot of the 

531
00:32:04,908 --> 00:32:08,700
security from whichever person 
respective da layer that they 

532
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,700
choose. 
Okay, I think that makes sense. 

533
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:15,200
So, just to recap here at the 
top, we're going to have 

534
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,900
Roll-Ups and we'll get into the 
different types. 

535
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:21,200
But here you can, you can 
currently there is, there's an 

536
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,000
evm environment. 
There's a Kazim awesome 

537
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,200
environment. 
So people can deploy contracts 

538
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,400
there, they can deploy apps as 
evm or or cause a Moslem, the 

539
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:33,500
dimension chain, which is a 
cosmos sha. 

540
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:36,100
And that has a valid or set what
it does. 

541
00:32:36,100 --> 00:32:41,500
Is it is able to understand 
proofs from each of those 

542
00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:43,700
environments and potentially 
other environments in the 

543
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:45,300
future. 
You want to build like Salon a 

544
00:32:45,308 --> 00:32:48,000
VM or you want to build. 
I don't know, like, whatever 

545
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,100
your goal, any deity of any VM 
on top of that. 

546
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:53,400
It's agnostic. 
And then it's agnostic. 

547
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,600
And then, Data availability, 
the, that, that will post. 

548
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,000
So that's basically the 
settlement layer and then it'll 

549
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:03,100
post to data to data, 
availability chains. 

550
00:33:03,100 --> 00:33:05,900
Like Celestia could be one of us
generalize data availability, 

551
00:33:06,100 --> 00:33:10,700
but it could also post to the 
cosmos Hub to have most to any 

552
00:33:10,700 --> 00:33:13,300
to. 
It doesn't need any specific 

553
00:33:13,300 --> 00:33:15,700
permission from osmosis to like 
post data to us. 

554
00:33:15,700 --> 00:33:19,500
Moses, anybody that that chain 
can post it there, the disposal 

555
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:23,200
change for each option. 
They will need to either include

556
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,100
a module. 
Or a smart contract that accepts

557
00:33:26,100 --> 00:33:28,700
the data because they're 
captions at the cord. 

558
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,300
It's like Bitcoin wise Bitcoin, 
a dealer. 

559
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:34,600
Now because they accept like in 
the script or whatever it is, 

560
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:37,700
autumn turn the bill. 
Yeah, they have the ability to 

561
00:33:37,700 --> 00:33:40,500
post arbitrary, bytes of data 
and that's the same thing for 

562
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:43,100
any chain. 
So any change could be a delayer

563
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,200
and what happens is dimension, 
Hub, Bridges, all the, all the 

564
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:53,100
Roll-Ups to the IBC world and 
why I mean, why couldn't like 

565
00:33:53,100 --> 00:33:57,900
Cosmo Sabor Moses or any other 
chain, just integrate, whatever 

566
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:02,200
module like whatever logic that 
Dimension to HUB, has to 

567
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:06,300
understand, you know, these like
to understand the proofs from 

568
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:12,600
from from higher layer Roll-Ups.
What is preventing say osmosis 

569
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:15,400
and when we like what there is 
there, an would there not be an 

570
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,300
incentive for osmosis to also or
the cosmos have to also 

571
00:34:19,300 --> 00:34:23,600
integrate that logic in order to
support an ecosystem of 

572
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,199
overlaps? 
Yes, we just haven't been 

573
00:34:26,500 --> 00:34:31,500
finished building so they have 
to wait. 

574
00:34:31,500 --> 00:34:36,199
But the truth is it's open 
source ecosystem and at the end 

575
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:40,000
of the day as I know very well 
that a lot of it is community. 

576
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:44,000
So if the customers Hub decides 
to take a module and if I was 

577
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,400
most has to take some module and
we take a module from us Moses, 

578
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,199
it's open source Community. 
The tech is a small part of it. 

579
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:54,100
It's not a small part, you know,
it is the corner. 

580
00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:58,700
It's the foundational part, but 
anyone could take open source 

581
00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:01,400
code. 
We have very open licenses. 

582
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,400
We open source, everything. 
We've been building in open from

583
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:06,200
day one. 
Pretty much. 

584
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:11,400
We don't closers anything people
could take our modules and then 

585
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:16,900
the day you can't take 
intellectual abilities and like 

586
00:35:17,300 --> 00:35:21,100
focus, our Focus. 
The team's focus on this 

587
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:23,800
particular core Mission from day
one. 

588
00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:27,400
We've been really focused on so 
we understand the ins and outs 

589
00:35:27,500 --> 00:35:30,000
and things that people don't 
talk about in the public, we 

590
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,700
understand and things that 
people do talk about in the 

591
00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:34,900
public. 
So I think they, you know, you 

592
00:35:34,900 --> 00:35:36,600
can take modules. 
That's pretty easy. 

593
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,400
It's almost as easy as copy and 
paste but there's much more core

594
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,500
things to building a blockchain 
protocol. 

595
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:50,800
Then take a module Yeah. 
And what is the, I mean, does 

596
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:54,600
the dimension chain? 
Have any particular interest in 

597
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,800
posting data to the hub or 
Celestia, or osmosis, or is that

598
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,100
a function of the application at
what it's doing and what it's 

599
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:06,700
interacting with? 
Or although State ability or 

600
00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:12,700
sort of I didn't, you know, an 
equal level or like offering 

601
00:36:12,700 --> 00:36:16,400
similar security. 
So, the mentioned chain is a 

602
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:18,800
tender moment chain, it doesn't 
post data anywhere. 

603
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,600
It's like it's their own 
validators, but the Roll-Ups do 

604
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:25,700
Post two different chains, 
right? 

605
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:29,600
So there's the dementia cup, 
which is a tender meat chain and

606
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,800
it's like osmosis, you know, you
don't, it's not a rollup of 

607
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,000
anything that mentioned Hub. 
Is not a rollup, Dimension Hub, 

608
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:40,200
is the chain. 
It Has the, this is why it's IBC

609
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:42,500
connected from day one. 
This is why people could go to 

610
00:36:42,500 --> 00:36:46,400
test net and interact with a 
rollup and also interact with 

611
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:49,200
IBC. 
Because all of the IBC goes 

612
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,500
through the dimension Hub, which
is tender Mentor, comment B, of 

613
00:36:52,500 --> 00:36:56,900
T soon, okay? 
That's like a core aspect. 

614
00:36:56,900 --> 00:36:59,300
A lot of people don't get people
think of, like, dimensions of 

615
00:36:59,300 --> 00:37:02,500
roll up on Celestial or people. 
It's a different, whatever, it's

616
00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:04,400
not. 
It's a seven-layer to settlement

617
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:09,500
chain. 
The The Da gnostic Is where the 

618
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:14,100
Roll-Ups can post to whichever 
obviously connected that chain 

619
00:37:14,100 --> 00:37:17,600
that is connected to mention. 
I hope that's okay. 

620
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,400
So roll up, I roll up. 
I mean in choosing and like say 

621
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:26,000
you've got a rollup, why like 
what goes into choosing which 

622
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:33,000
chain, they would post their 
proofs to so where they would 

623
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,500
post their data to write because
they're posting their data 

624
00:37:35,500 --> 00:37:36,700
systemic. 
Yeah. 

625
00:37:36,900 --> 00:37:39,300
So they're posting the Data 
first has to be approved by 

626
00:37:39,300 --> 00:37:42,600
Dimension Hub, governance. 
The dimension that has to, they 

627
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,500
have to say hello. 
Like this da is secure enough, 

628
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:47,200
like we believe that is 
decentralized. 

629
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:48,900
It's like, it's a community 
thing. 

630
00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:52,600
So, the first one that will be, 
of course, use this Celeste, you

631
00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:56,800
the less yet has been proven to 
really be experts in this field.

632
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:01,400
They've been proven to show how 
they could scale the da parts 

633
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,900
and they're very, it's very 
easily verifiable where the data

634
00:38:04,900 --> 00:38:07,200
is especially when you're 
talking about. 

635
00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:09,800
The Mist cross chain 
communication. 

636
00:38:10,300 --> 00:38:14,100
So like that's a core protocol 
that's going to be a part of 

637
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:17,100
Dimension but we could also say,
hey like eventually F. 

638
00:38:17,100 --> 00:38:20,400
Most wants to have some da as 
well to fill up their block 

639
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,800
space. 
So then Dimension up, get 

640
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,700
approved MOS and now roll ups 
have two options. 

641
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,800
They could post data to F most, 
or they can post data to 

642
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,100
Celestia now. 
Which one are they going to 

643
00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:35,400
choose one of the core decision 
processes is which one is 

644
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,200
cheaper? 
That's because Does the 

645
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,500
sequencer is that run? 
The Roll-Ups actually paid for 

646
00:38:40,500 --> 00:38:44,000
transaction B and which one's 
going to be cheaper is like it's

647
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:47,600
a market or eventually will be a
market. 

648
00:38:47,900 --> 00:38:50,700
And that's probably like, which 
one's the most scalable. 

649
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:55,000
Interesting. 
Okay, yeah, so so it comes down 

650
00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:02,400
to then yeah, the availability 
of block space and and, and the 

651
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:07,500
cost of storing that data and 
and posting that data to to 

652
00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:11,300
change in terms of 
interoperability. 

653
00:39:11,500 --> 00:39:13,900
So, you mentioned that the 
dimension chain is IBC 

654
00:39:14,100 --> 00:39:16,700
compatible. 
Do the chains do the roll apps 

655
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:21,300
themselves, interact directly 
with other IBC apps. 

656
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,800
Etc, or does it have to go 
through Dimension? 

657
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,300
How does interoperability work? 
Broadly, so they mention Hub, 

658
00:39:29,300 --> 00:39:33,400
has a diamond select client, 
which is the light client of the

659
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:37,900
roll-up and the role of sends 
that message, the sequencer 

660
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:42,100
sends a message, to the 
dimension Hub, the IBC and the 

661
00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:43,900
damage and home looks 
internally. 

662
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,300
And says, hey did this dispute 
period end? 

663
00:39:47,300 --> 00:39:50,800
Is there a fraudulent State and 
by looking internally, they 

664
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,900
could then allow Ow people to 
bridge out. 

665
00:39:54,100 --> 00:39:57,700
So IVC goes through the 
dimension Hub, because the 

666
00:39:57,700 --> 00:40:01,100
dimension Hub looks at the 
internal State and says, okay, 

667
00:40:01,100 --> 00:40:04,700
like this roll-up is good to go.
This role of something happens. 

668
00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:07,500
We're not allowed bridging, you 
know, depends on what the 

669
00:40:07,508 --> 00:40:11,000
internal state is and then by 
being IBC connected and you can 

670
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,900
use like pack a middle where you
can get these one hop IP c-- 

671
00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:20,100
transactions or one IPC 
transaction from evm chain, or a

672
00:40:20,107 --> 00:40:25,100
customized training to a Rolo. 
Interesting. 

673
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:32,100
But in your white paper there is
this IRC this this inner chain 

674
00:40:32,100 --> 00:40:36,000
roll up communication. 
How is that different from IBC? 

675
00:40:37,100 --> 00:40:41,500
So, IRC is pretty much not 
different than IBC. 

676
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:45,200
There is no difference between 
IBC, uses the IBC protocol. 

677
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:51,800
It just adds a client type to 
the IBC protocol IRC was 

678
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,300
formulated a year. 
Ago. 

679
00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:58,400
But now that we've kind of 
ossified are beginning to 

680
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,000
ossify, what is the IBC protocol
for Roll-Ups? 

681
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:07,000
Then it's just we've made some 
adjustments where we could one 

682
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,400
of the core aspects in our 
decision and design process is 

683
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,600
to be as compatible with the 
community as it as it is of 

684
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,300
being as compatible with the 
cosmos SDK being as compatible 

685
00:41:18,300 --> 00:41:20,500
with IBC. 
Those are two critical things 

686
00:41:20,500 --> 00:41:24,000
that we want to keep and we were
able to keep I beseech. 

687
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,200
See as it is. 
So eventually you could use 

688
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:29,500
interchange accounts if the 
interchange queries, all the 

689
00:41:29,500 --> 00:41:33,300
applications that are built on, 
top of IBC will be able to be 

690
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:38,300
used in Roll-Ups as well. 
Okay, that's very cool. 

691
00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:43,300
So talk about the, what other 
the the what's the role of 

692
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:45,200
sequencers? 
Where do they sit in all of 

693
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,700
this? 
And how are they incentivize to 

694
00:41:47,700 --> 00:41:52,500
act honestly? 
So the sequencers post Capital 

695
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:55,800
to the dimension Hub and this 
could be in the form of dime 

696
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,200
token, which is the dimension 
protocol token Superfluous 

697
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:05,900
taking from osmosis which uses 
the LP of dime and the The role 

698
00:42:05,900 --> 00:42:08,800
of token or the role of token 
itself when approved by 

699
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:13,100
governance. 
So the sequencer publisher post 

700
00:42:13,100 --> 00:42:16,000
Capital on the dimension hope 
and then they get this block 

701
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:18,500
production time. 
They get allocated x amount of 

702
00:42:18,500 --> 00:42:20,700
blocks. 
So if there's a Marketplace or 

703
00:42:20,700 --> 00:42:23,700
if there's a permissionless 
sequencing, then whoever post 

704
00:42:23,700 --> 00:42:27,200
more Capital than they get more 
block production time, similar 

705
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,300
to like a delegated proof of 
stake. 

706
00:42:29,300 --> 00:42:34,400
They those guys they get a 
portion of the revenue from 

707
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:39,600
operating this This roll-up. 
So they post the data, they pay 

708
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,100
for publishing the data, they 
post the state, they pay a 

709
00:42:43,100 --> 00:42:46,200
little bit for updating the 
state but then they get all the 

710
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,800
revenue and it could be in terms
of minting and could be in terms

711
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:53,700
of transaction fees, it can be 
in terms of Meb. 

712
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,300
However, the protocol decides to
capture this, a lot of the 

713
00:42:57,300 --> 00:43:01,100
rewards can go to the sequencer 
to pay for the operating cost. 

714
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:07,100
So it's kind of like It's 
similar to block producer on the

715
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:11,000
on the, on the blockchain and 
regular blockchain, but instead 

716
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:16,600
of everyone downloaded their own
data, the sequencer is trusted 

717
00:43:16,700 --> 00:43:20,100
for that period. 
And then they post the data on 

718
00:43:20,100 --> 00:43:23,600
chain and then someone else 
could come and download that 

719
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,100
data and say, hey that was 
incorrect, and I can prove it to

720
00:43:27,100 --> 00:43:30,200
the dimension, hope. 
And by this, you have this one 

721
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:33,000
of n trusted sumption, instead 
of like a 2/3. 

722
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,600
Trust in some Ocean and say like
if the sequencer is doing 

723
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,300
something invalid, if they post 
like a invalid State transition,

724
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:45,500
then someone, we just need one 
actor to prove that they're 

725
00:43:45,500 --> 00:43:48,500
actually posting something that 
doesn't make sense. 

726
00:43:50,300 --> 00:43:52,200
Okay. 
So it's an optimism is an 

727
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:56,900
optimistic. 
Roll-up can consider design to 

728
00:43:56,900 --> 00:43:59,700
an extent. 
We use the k for parts of the 

729
00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:04,500
protocol, but because ZK has 
inherent Layton sees and just 

730
00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,700
the tech. 
Isn't there to fully integrate 

731
00:44:07,700 --> 00:44:11,500
into showing the correctness of 
State updates. 

732
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:15,900
Then we are focused on doing 
optimistic Roll-Ups and 

733
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,800
integrating ZK and less stateful
things. 

734
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,200
Okay, can you expand on that a 
little bit? 

735
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,200
Yeah so one of the aspects is so
there's two aspects. 

736
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,500
One is a sequencer with holding 
a text, which it's a bit in the 

737
00:44:30,500 --> 00:44:33,900
weeds where I'd like to see even
though the DEA raids. 

738
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:41,300
Yeah, that that so ID a sampling
and what people are are aware of

739
00:44:41,300 --> 00:44:46,200
is that how do you avoid data 
with holding a text by block 

740
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,000
producers on the unlike the 
data? 

741
00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:52,700
Ability chain or the L1 chains, 
for L1 change, for regular, like

742
00:44:52,700 --> 00:44:55,800
etherium all of the validators, 
download the data and they check

743
00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,300
the end result for DA's change. 
The light clients sample, the 

744
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:04,800
block producer, because the what
happens on, like Celestia, for 

745
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,800
example is the, the consensus 
network is very light that a 

746
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,400
sequencer. 
So on post the data. 

747
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:14,400
But there's only like a commit 
to the data on the consensus 

748
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,400
Network and all the data it goes
to the DA Network. 

749
00:45:17,700 --> 00:45:21,000
The DNA idea that were Well, 
sampling goes on to 

750
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,700
probabilistically determined 
like the sequencer there. 

751
00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:28,200
The Black producer on the on the
consensus network of Celestia 

752
00:45:28,500 --> 00:45:31,900
isn't hiding any data or like 
that commits and contains all 

753
00:45:31,900 --> 00:45:34,100
the data. 
But that doesn't prevent a 

754
00:45:34,107 --> 00:45:36,400
sequencer from acting 
maliciously. 

755
00:45:36,700 --> 00:45:40,600
So sequencer is not the same as 
on as operating on different 

756
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,400
layers than the celestial 
Network. 

757
00:45:42,500 --> 00:45:46,100
So sequencer could gossip blocks
to their peers, which it may not

758
00:45:46,100 --> 00:45:49,000
be the same block to their to 
the DA layer. 

759
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,200
Or vice versa, whatever it is. 
So we have to make sure that the

760
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:58,600
sequencers that are operating on
Dimension that when they post 

761
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:03,100
data to a chain that they have 
to prove to the dimension chain.

762
00:46:03,100 --> 00:46:06,700
That all the data that was 
posted was actually posted by 

763
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:09,500
them. 
So we could kind of ZK, proofs 

764
00:46:10,900 --> 00:46:14,400
ZK, proof that they were 
actually posting the data. 

765
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:18,700
We, there's another way to if 
you have a proper proof. 

766
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,000
Stead of rerunning the whole 
state machine, like someone 

767
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:28,100
comes and the dimension table 
instead of actually virtualizing

768
00:46:28,100 --> 00:46:30,000
the machine. 
And then re running the whole 

769
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,300
states against the logic in the 
context, you can do a ZK proof 

770
00:46:35,300 --> 00:46:38,600
of the front proof which kind of
shows. 

771
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:43,700
Hey, like this input is not the 
correct output of what the 

772
00:46:43,700 --> 00:46:46,400
sequencer did. 
And these are also things that 

773
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:50,700
we're just only researching, but
at The end of the day, the ZK 

774
00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:57,200
protocol or the CK aspects of 
Dimension will be there and will

775
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,600
be integrated. 
There will be an aspects that 

776
00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:04,200
don't require low latency. 
So for example, the Rolex 

777
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,400
required low-latency one of the,
one of the main selling points 

778
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:11,900
of roll-up is to have very low 
user experience latency 0.2 

779
00:47:11,900 --> 00:47:14,300
seconds, you can go lower and 
it's configurable. 

780
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:19,000
So that's because it's a, it's a
mixture of optimistic design. 

781
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:23,000
For publishing data and also the
batching the matching process of

782
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,700
quick blocks. 
But when you have ZK B, the 

783
00:47:26,700 --> 00:47:29,100
latency becomes much slower or a
much larger. 

784
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,500
Even if you increase like the 
approver requirements or 

785
00:47:34,500 --> 00:47:35,900
decrease the program 
requirements. 

786
00:47:36,500 --> 00:47:40,900
So for us, we integrate, ZK and 
aspects that don't need 

787
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:44,800
necessarily to be low latent or 
very fast. 

788
00:47:46,100 --> 00:47:50,000
Okay, so when you when you're 
dealing with aspects that that 

789
00:47:51,300 --> 00:47:56,600
don't require low latency, you 
can leverage DK. 

790
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:00,800
But in another aspects you're 
leveraging this optimistic 

791
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:05,900
design that has much higher 
latency or much lower link. 

792
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:07,400
Yeah. 
Right much lower. 

793
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,900
And at the end of day, it's a 
sediment layer so it will be 

794
00:48:09,900 --> 00:48:14,900
able to take in ZK proofs of 
roll. 

795
00:48:15,100 --> 00:48:19,000
Oops that are run by by provers 
sequencers that are actually 

796
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,800
running on the executing the ZK 
logic. 

797
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:27,800
But that's not, that's not 
scalable or the tech, isn't 

798
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:32,200
there for everyone to just run 
the ZK approver and to have this

799
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,700
kind of a system, it's much much
much more scalable in the near 

800
00:48:35,700 --> 00:48:38,900
future and the the midterm 
future as well as to have all 

801
00:48:38,900 --> 00:48:43,800
these Roll-Ups to have just 
regular dodes operating the 

802
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,600
sequencers. 
Instead of These provers. 

803
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:49,400
So indicate any event of a 
dispute? 

804
00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:53,000
What's the resolution time 
that's expected? 

805
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,500
Or is our, is that variable, 
depending on like the type of 

806
00:48:55,508 --> 00:48:59,000
application? 
You mean like the dispute 

807
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,000
period? 
Yeah. 

808
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:05,600
Yeah, that's so it's 
configurable in the dimension 

809
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:09,300
Hub right now, for in Shrine 
settlement, for contracts and 

810
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:12,700
insurance met sediment layers. 
Optimization Arbitron we're 

811
00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:15,800
using seven days. 
We can use that. 

812
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:19,400
It's not unlike an empirical 
study to show that you need 

813
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:24,400
seven days to actually secure an
optimistic chain. 

814
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,900
It's more about the crypto 
economic incentives and 

815
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:30,200
disincentives that exists. 
So we one of the things that we 

816
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:35,400
do is we were building a 
protocol called VIP see, which 

817
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,300
is just like an application 
layer on top of IBC where a 

818
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:44,000
relayer would confirm a 
transaction prior to the dispute

819
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,000
period. 
So they would help in bridging 

820
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,700
out. 
So for example, if I'm a user on

821
00:49:47,700 --> 00:49:51,100
roll up X and I want to bridge 
our tokens, but I don't want to 

822
00:49:51,100 --> 00:49:53,700
wait the seven days. 
Then I just do the fast 

823
00:49:53,700 --> 00:49:55,700
withdrawal and someone else. 
Yeah. 

824
00:49:55,800 --> 00:49:59,500
Takes that transaction to risk. 
Yeah and once they take the risk

825
00:49:59,500 --> 00:50:02,300
they're assumed to also be 
verifying the chain. 

826
00:50:02,300 --> 00:50:04,400
So that's kind of like that fast
withdrawal. 

827
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,000
Market-maker stuff that we've 
integrated in a trust minimized 

828
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:13,000
way within IBC. 
Okay, that's cool. 

829
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:22,100
Is it can, can can do mention 
also settle to etherium data 

830
00:50:22,100 --> 00:50:24,900
availability? 
Or is it is something 

831
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:27,900
prohibiting that from? 
It is like, yeah, how does that 

832
00:50:27,900 --> 00:50:33,100
work? 
So, for you cerium main notes to

833
00:50:33,100 --> 00:50:38,500
be communicating with Dimension.
There needs to be like clients, 

834
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:43,500
that understand the etherium may
not tender moments, not the 

835
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:46,200
problem sentiment has already 
like Clients. 

836
00:50:46,500 --> 00:50:50,900
But because of the constraints 
of what is the consensus network

837
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:54,400
of the etherium is kind of like 
their issue. 

838
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:57,700
But once they kind of figured 
that out and maybe you kind of 

839
00:50:57,700 --> 00:51:01,700
take, maybe, greater economic 
risks or less economic security 

840
00:51:01,700 --> 00:51:04,700
with. 
I can layer of with people at 

841
00:51:04,700 --> 00:51:08,600
like different nodes, only like 
a selection of nodes using or 

842
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:13,100
giving like the lividity or 
giving the attestation, then you

843
00:51:13,100 --> 00:51:17,200
can for example potential use. 
Those that are built on top of a

844
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,500
theorem, but to use the whole 
theorem security for da, you 

845
00:51:21,500 --> 00:51:25,000
would need to really have kind 
of like snark, the consensus of 

846
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,200
the etherium protocol and then 
put it into like client. 

847
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,300
The, and this is the same issue 
that a theorem runs into for 

848
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:36,700
interacting with IBC, right? 
I mean, it's, it's the same 

849
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:40,000
thing sense this. 
Yeah, because damage senses 

850
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,900
isn't fine, and finality is an 
instant. 

851
00:51:42,900 --> 00:51:47,700
And so therefore, there is a 
delay between In the moment that

852
00:51:47,700 --> 00:51:52,900
say, like a rollup would post 
data on chain, etherium, would 

853
00:51:52,900 --> 00:51:56,300
take some time to catch up. 
Yeah, I don't think I've 

854
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:58,600
finality is definitely one 
aspect. 

855
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,200
I think there's other aspects in
terms of the way that the 

856
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:06,500
consensus network of medium is 
structured because I know if 

857
00:52:06,500 --> 00:52:12,000
Syria IBC is connected now with 
composable and they from my 

858
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,600
understanding polka dot also has
kind of maybe not a 

859
00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:18,200
probabilistic finality, but 
maybe they do. 

860
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:24,100
So I don't think finality is the
only or probabilistic consensus 

861
00:52:24,100 --> 00:52:28,000
is the only problem with 
connecting with IBC but I'm not 

862
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:32,200
in the weeds of net. 
Yeah, that's the dream, right? 

863
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:36,500
It's the dream that the theory. 
I'm and, and IVC, just work hand

864
00:52:36,500 --> 00:52:40,600
in hand. 
Without any middle men or 

865
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,000
middleware or anything like 
that. 

866
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:47,400
It's the dream so we could get 
more liquidity off of it cerium,

867
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,400
I think. 
Yeah, the more liquidity on die,

868
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,000
be seen, Carter called a better 
for the whole block chain world,

869
00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,100
but right now it's just siloed, 
the, on the polygons, on the 

870
00:52:58,100 --> 00:53:01,400
theorems of the world, which in 
my opinion are Worth tech 

871
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,500
product products and worse 
economic products than what 

872
00:53:04,500 --> 00:53:10,000
Cosmos allows you to build. 
So, speaking of building, I want

873
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:13,900
to, I want to go back to the 
developer a little bit, so there

874
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:17,300
is, there's the there's 
different ways of building a 

875
00:53:17,300 --> 00:53:20,900
role app. 
So we've got the evm rolap. 

876
00:53:20,900 --> 00:53:26,000
Thus the kazim, awesome roll up 
with the also have this rdk 

877
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,000
which is this role app, 
development kit. 

878
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:33,100
It is from what I understand. 
It's kind of like the cosmos SDK

879
00:53:33,100 --> 00:53:36,500
and that it has a module that 
allows you to build a, you know,

880
00:53:36,500 --> 00:53:38,800
custom block. 
Chain is the idea here to just 

881
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:45,900
kind of like build Cosmos, SDK 
chains on top of on top of 

882
00:53:45,900 --> 00:53:48,800
Dimension. 
And, you know why? 

883
00:53:48,900 --> 00:53:53,900
Why have evm and kazem Waseem 
specific modules? 

884
00:53:53,900 --> 00:54:00,100
When You know, I we already have
kazim wazza modules for the 

885
00:54:00,100 --> 00:54:04,500
cosmos SDK that could also sit 
within this rdk and we also have

886
00:54:04,500 --> 00:54:06,700
ether mint, which could sit 
within. 

887
00:54:06,700 --> 00:54:08,600
So, it's because it feels like 
these are three separate 

888
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,500
products there. 
One product, are they just 

889
00:54:11,500 --> 00:54:13,000
different? 
There's okay, it's just one 

890
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:13,900
product. 
Okay? 

891
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,300
Yeah. 
So the rdk is a custom us SDK 

892
00:54:17,300 --> 00:54:19,900
Fork, where you integrate in 
ether. 

893
00:54:19,900 --> 00:54:23,900
Mentor wasn't so it's the same 
stuff, like where we don't 

894
00:54:23,900 --> 00:54:27,300
rebuild anything. 
We changed the second module, we

895
00:54:27,300 --> 00:54:30,300
change this taking module 
because what happens is the 

896
00:54:30,300 --> 00:54:33,500
second module is tied with 
tender mints validated changes, 

897
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,900
whereas the sequencer is 
different for. 

898
00:54:36,900 --> 00:54:40,400
And when we replace Diamond 
attendants with diamonds, we 

899
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,200
have to change some of the 
Integrations, or the coupling 

900
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:46,500
between the business logic of a,
of a, a train. 

901
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:52,200
And the, unlike the networking 
logic or the like the rdk is a 

902
00:54:52,207 --> 00:54:54,700
PCI compatible. 
But we change some of the 

903
00:54:54,700 --> 00:54:56,500
things. 
One of the things that we change

904
00:54:56,500 --> 00:55:01,300
is say we we have validators and
Cosmos and there's a coupling 

905
00:55:01,300 --> 00:55:03,800
between governance and 
computation. 

906
00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:07,000
So a validator also validates 
the network. 

907
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,000
So they make sure that all the 
blocks that are being proposed 

908
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,300
are aligned with the state 
logic. 

909
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:15,600
So they are all on the same 
chain but they also participate 

910
00:55:15,800 --> 00:55:20,000
pretty much the fact though, as 
as governors of the chain. 

911
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:23,400
So people delegate tokens and 
they don't really the delegator 

912
00:55:23,400 --> 00:55:27,600
is don't pay attention. 
We separate this into two parts,

913
00:55:27,900 --> 00:55:32,400
under on the rdk. 
The compute is handled by the 

914
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:35,900
sequencers but because the 
sequencers can be centralized. 

915
00:55:35,900 --> 00:55:39,400
What would the idea of the are 
decaying one of the idea of 

916
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,000
Dimension 4 for people who are 
watching is that hey we want 

917
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:45,300
people to build Cosmos 
blockchains just with a few 

918
00:55:45,300 --> 00:55:47,100
notes. 
But with that, inherent the 

919
00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:49,600
security of the decentralized 
base layers. 

920
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,100
But when you have this kind of 
aspect of where you only have a 

921
00:55:54,100 --> 00:55:58,800
few nodes, Or one note, even 
then you start to centralize the

922
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:03,200
computes and the governance. 
So if it was a validator, that 

923
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:06,400
means I everyone's about 
delegating to one person and 

924
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:09,200
that sucks. 
So we say, hey, we cannot allow 

925
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:11,700
that. 
We can't allow a centralization 

926
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:15,300
to one party of governance and 
computes, we can allow a 

927
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:19,700
centralization of computes 
because you only need one person

928
00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:23,800
to disprove that that sequencer 
was actually doing the correct 

929
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,400
state. 
But Decentralize the governance 

930
00:56:26,500 --> 00:56:31,700
by using at the end of TS. 
So each roll up can distribute 

931
00:56:31,700 --> 00:56:34,100
however, many entities that 
could have one end of tea. 

932
00:56:34,300 --> 00:56:36,700
They could have 1000 and of 
these are they could have 

933
00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:39,800
different functions of 
Distributing creating the end of

934
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:44,500
T's and then you delegate tokens
to those end of team members. 

935
00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:49,600
So it's similar to what people 
are using spt tokens as 

936
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,200
soulbound tokens on different 
etherium chains, but here you 

937
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:57,100
can actually trade And you could
actually start to accrue more 

938
00:56:57,100 --> 00:57:00,200
value to the end of T's and also
to the tokens. 

939
00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:04,400
So we separate into our DK2 
aspects that governance and the 

940
00:57:04,408 --> 00:57:08,200
computes because we don't want. 
We also don't think it's like 

941
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:12,600
economically aligned for a 
sequencer to decide how much 

942
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,900
rewards he gets. 
So it's kind of a, it becomes a 

943
00:57:15,900 --> 00:57:19,900
negotiation and becomes more of 
like a real world corporate 

944
00:57:19,900 --> 00:57:23,300
structure where you have the 
employee, which is a sequencer 

945
00:57:23,300 --> 00:57:26,600
could be the CEO. 
But he is operating the 

946
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,200
ecosystem. 
Then you have board members, 

947
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,100
which are the n and it's and of 
team members. 

948
00:57:30,100 --> 00:57:33,400
And then you have shareholders, 
which are the token holders that

949
00:57:33,400 --> 00:57:35,200
delegate to the end of team 
members. 

950
00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:38,600
And there's also Roll-Ups, for 
example, don't need their own 

951
00:57:38,607 --> 00:57:44,100
token, so you can have like just
pure 11 user one vote so you can

952
00:57:44,100 --> 00:57:46,400
get like these different 
structures and different. 

953
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:50,600
Hopefully, very novel, govern 
instructors on the, on the road 

954
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:55,900
player because they already 
inherent the We of the base 

955
00:57:55,900 --> 00:58:00,300
layer. 
That's the core difference 

956
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:02,600
between the cosmos SDK and the 
rdk. 

957
00:58:02,900 --> 00:58:06,800
You inherent the developer 
tooling you inherit the gov. 

958
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,500
The most, most of the goal 
modules. 

959
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:13,200
We try to stay up to date even 
though we're moving through the 

960
00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:17,700
version 46 right now. 
So a lot of the tooling, a lot 

961
00:58:17,700 --> 00:58:21,700
of the protocol is very similar 
in tied to the cosmos ecosystem.

962
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,600
At the end of the day, it is a 
layer 2 on top. 

963
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,600
Of a layer 1, which is the 
cosmos. 

964
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:32,000
And you guys are just like, 
constantly refactoring or sort 

965
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:37,800
of merging back into the rdk. 
The cosmos SDK module, so that 

966
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:41,300
there is always this 
compatibility whichever ones we 

967
00:58:41,300 --> 00:58:43,500
see fit tour. 
Roll-Ups. 

968
00:58:43,500 --> 00:58:48,600
So now that maybe like anything 
that's up streamed from the 

969
00:58:48,700 --> 00:58:51,500
staking module. 
For example, that we may not 

970
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:55,500
want to use it but if there's 
something that's new like the 

971
00:58:55,500 --> 00:58:58,200
group module I think the group 
Module, which allows kind of 

972
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:01,600
these Sub sub Dows. 
And with now you include like 

973
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:04,200
the end of teas as Governors and
the sub dials. 

974
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:08,800
I think that's a great 
integration between kind of like

975
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,600
the main community pools and the
sub Dows. 

976
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:14,600
So like these things are 
upstream or Downstream to the 

977
00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,900
rdk. 
But there's things that are that

978
00:59:17,900 --> 00:59:20,400
don't necessarily need to be 
changed. 

979
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:24,400
Very interesting. 
Yeah. 

980
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:30,400
We're Arts of the rdk. 
You know, when when developers 

981
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:36,100
are building applications here, 
what what, kinds of like 

982
00:59:36,300 --> 00:59:37,900
compared to building in that 
chain? 

983
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:42,600
What are the, what are the key 
differences that developers 

984
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:46,900
should keep in mind? 
And what kinds of applications? 

985
00:59:46,900 --> 00:59:50,200
Do you think are just not suited
for roll apps? 

986
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,700
Like, if you were talking, 
Developer and they're telling 

987
00:59:52,700 --> 00:59:55,700
you hey like we're going to 
build this new app. 

988
00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:56,700
You want to build it on roll 
out. 

989
00:59:56,700 --> 01:00:01,300
Like what kinds of applications 
would you consider not 

990
01:00:01,300 --> 01:00:03,800
well-suited for this 
construction and sort of steer 

991
01:00:03,800 --> 01:00:06,600
them towards building, like a 
nap chain or energy security or 

992
01:00:06,600 --> 01:00:10,000
some like that. 
Yeah, so when you're developing 

993
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,800
a rollup, you're getting very 
low latency and you're getting 

994
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,100
easy bootstrapping. 
So instead of bootstrapping 50 

995
01:00:17,100 --> 01:00:20,400
or 100, validators, get one or 
two or three nodes that you 

996
01:00:20,408 --> 01:00:22,900
really need to. 
Top rate as sequencers. 

997
01:00:23,100 --> 01:00:28,300
So you have this constant 
reduction of nodes operating 

998
01:00:28,300 --> 01:00:31,400
system because you're inheriting
that these centralization of the

999
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:34,600
base layer. 
So, with this reduction of 

1000
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,200
operators, you get a very fast 
experience for users. 

1001
01:00:38,300 --> 01:00:41,100
So if you want to do on chain 
games or whatever, or defy 

1002
01:00:41,100 --> 01:00:45,600
products, then it's amazing. 
It's amazing because there's two

1003
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:49,000
aspects, one, you never the 
users never get increasing data 

1004
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:50,700
costs. 
So the cost are always 

1005
01:00:50,700 --> 01:00:53,200
maintained because You could 
choose one the, a layer that you

1006
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,400
could choose another dealer as 
long as you can balance your 

1007
01:00:56,400 --> 01:01:01,200
cause and then you also have 
this latency the detriment or 

1008
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:03,400
the other side is, like, why 
would you build an app train 

1009
01:01:03,400 --> 01:01:06,300
over roll up? 
Is because your protocol really 

1010
01:01:06,300 --> 01:01:10,400
needs that instance censorship 
resistance. 

1011
01:01:11,300 --> 01:01:15,800
So, and a decentralized protocol
like, like a nap chain 

1012
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:20,600
especially with new 10 German 
style or new Forks of tender 

1013
01:01:20,600 --> 01:01:23,900
minutes called. 
The new Lucas out me. 

1014
01:01:23,900 --> 01:01:28,200
Luca see, or one of the 14 
Duality they okay. 

1015
01:01:28,200 --> 01:01:29,300
I don't know what's this. 
Yeah. 

1016
01:01:29,300 --> 01:01:33,900
So so their product their ideas 
like there's a few block 

1017
01:01:33,900 --> 01:01:37,800
proposers, and then like one 
block Builder, and then each 

1018
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:41,500
one, the block Builder has to 
have transactions from each 

1019
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:46,000
block proposer based on steak. 
So, there are applications that 

1020
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:52,700
really need or inherent or 
should inherence the The instant

1021
01:01:52,700 --> 01:01:58,300
censorship resistance from a, 
from a train but that's also 

1022
01:01:58,300 --> 01:02:01,300
it's a spectrum. 
Like, maybe you could wait like 

1023
01:02:01,300 --> 01:02:04,000
a couple of days or a day for 
censorship resistant. 

1024
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:09,400
So it depends on how sensitive 
that transaction is to type. 

1025
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:13,100
I think that's kind of like the 
critical decision Factor if your

1026
01:02:13,100 --> 01:02:16,400
application should be built as a
nap chain or if it should be or 

1027
01:02:16,400 --> 01:02:22,000
should be built as a rollup. 
And is there a like I've been 

1028
01:02:22,000 --> 01:02:25,700
talking to a lot of people about
this idea and I'm starting to 

1029
01:02:25,700 --> 01:02:30,100
see this idea, you know, in a 
lot of places. 

1030
01:02:30,100 --> 01:02:34,600
And and so this this idea that, 
you know, smart contracts 

1031
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:38,500
Roll-Ups app. 
Chains are not so much in 

1032
01:02:38,500 --> 01:02:43,300
opposition to each other but 
exist more on a gradient and and

1033
01:02:43,300 --> 01:02:48,600
so that we should see things as 
applications evolving or sort of

1034
01:02:48,600 --> 01:02:54,400
graduating Steps up that ladder,
is there an upgrade path for 

1035
01:02:54,500 --> 01:02:57,100
applications? 
That may be start as a roll up? 

1036
01:02:57,200 --> 01:03:01,300
And at some point for reasons 
that you mentioned need to 

1037
01:03:01,300 --> 01:03:05,900
upgrade or transition to 
building their own app chain or 

1038
01:03:06,000 --> 01:03:10,300
some other form of consensus is 
there is is that something you 

1039
01:03:10,300 --> 01:03:15,100
think will happen with 
applications as they grow or and

1040
01:03:15,100 --> 01:03:18,000
is there a way an easy way for 
applications to do that? 

1041
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,600
I don't think will happen 
Because the core aspect of a 

1042
01:03:21,600 --> 01:03:25,100
rollup is you're getting very 
low latency which you just don't

1043
01:03:25,100 --> 01:03:27,800
get the same latency of, like, 
Point, 01 seconds. 

1044
01:03:27,800 --> 01:03:30,700
Like there's a reason why you're
a roll up, and then you also 

1045
01:03:30,700 --> 01:03:35,800
have this coupling, you have to 
kind of change Destructor to fit

1046
01:03:35,800 --> 01:03:38,800
the validators of an app change.
So you have to reconfigure 

1047
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,000
things. 
Is it possible? 

1048
01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:42,600
I think everything is possible 
and blockchains very fluid, 

1049
01:03:42,600 --> 01:03:45,000
especially when you get into, 
like the social layer of things 

1050
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:49,200
and social consensus, but I like
a practical level, I don't think

1051
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:50,500
that's going to be. 
Be very common. 

1052
01:03:50,500 --> 01:03:53,900
I think it's more common for 
interchange security consumer 

1053
01:03:53,900 --> 01:03:55,900
change should move to a 
sovereign chain. 

1054
01:03:55,900 --> 01:04:00,600
And I think that's actually, one
of the great product Market fit 

1055
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:04,500
for comes for interchange 
Securities that it can secure by

1056
01:04:04,500 --> 01:04:06,300
chains. 
But it, maybe eventually those 

1057
01:04:06,300 --> 01:04:11,300
things kind of should recycle 
But in terms of Roll-Ups like if

1058
01:04:11,300 --> 01:04:13,800
you're if you're building a 
rollup, then you're probably 

1059
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:19,600
wants the like super low latency
and that kind of aspect of and 

1060
01:04:19,600 --> 01:04:22,700
flexibility of roll up instead 
of an option. 

1061
01:04:25,500 --> 01:04:27,700
Cool. 
Well what's the roadmap? 

1062
01:04:28,100 --> 01:04:31,700
And when can I think you guys 
already I was I was in the 

1063
01:04:31,900 --> 01:04:34,500
horrible while ago and sort of 
fiddling around there so there 

1064
01:04:34,500 --> 01:04:38,600
is something that's live. 
Can people already build on this

1065
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:43,000
and what are some of the early 
projects that are building using

1066
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:46,100
demand. 
So we're building the first. 

1067
01:04:46,200 --> 01:04:48,900
We built the first test next 
which is going to, it's a 

1068
01:04:48,900 --> 01:04:51,700
staggered tested. 
So in February we released the 

1069
01:04:51,700 --> 01:04:54,300
first rolled up and the 
dimension chain, the role of 

1070
01:04:54,300 --> 01:04:58,200
post the data So to celestion 
the state routes to, to the 

1071
01:04:58,200 --> 01:05:01,400
dimension chain. 
It's connected via IBC, we're 

1072
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:03,700
integrating next week or in two 
weeks. 

1073
01:05:03,700 --> 01:05:06,700
The evm roll up with with 
collaboration with the upmost 

1074
01:05:06,700 --> 01:05:09,500
team and the celestial team. 
So it post it. 

1075
01:05:09,600 --> 01:05:14,700
It's going to reuse the IBC 
token for gas of f most. 

1076
01:05:14,700 --> 01:05:17,800
So F, most you people are gonna 
take their MOS. 

1077
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:20,700
Faucet token. 
IBC through the portal to the 

1078
01:05:20,700 --> 01:05:22,900
evm chain and then interact 
with. 

1079
01:05:22,900 --> 01:05:25,100
Well, we're going to deploy is a
UNICEF. 

1080
01:05:25,300 --> 01:05:27,900
For so people could trade on 
this test set. 

1081
01:05:27,900 --> 01:05:31,700
So it's going to be the first 
evm roll up and that's obviously

1082
01:05:31,700 --> 01:05:33,800
connected. 
And the cool thing is that it 

1083
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:36,300
uses a different token. 
It doesn't have its own native 

1084
01:05:36,300 --> 01:05:38,700
token. 
That's going to be in 

1085
01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:43,100
collaboration with MMOs and 
Celestial and and so after that,

1086
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:45,800
we're going to move to 
incentivize tested. 

1087
01:05:45,800 --> 01:05:49,600
We made throw in a few one or 
two more surprises in between. 

1088
01:05:50,700 --> 01:05:53,800
But other collaborations like a 
gaming doubt that were that were

1089
01:05:53,800 --> 01:05:57,100
very close with. 
And then we're going to deploy 

1090
01:05:57,100 --> 01:05:59,400
it incentivize Testament where 
people can deploy their own 

1091
01:05:59,400 --> 01:06:03,600
Roll-Ups and this is going to be
in the second quarter likely in 

1092
01:06:03,600 --> 01:06:07,500
the latter half like towards the
end of the second quarter and 

1093
01:06:07,500 --> 01:06:10,400
people will be incentivized to 
deploy their own chains. 

1094
01:06:10,500 --> 01:06:14,900
People will be incentivized to 
participate in ecosystem and 

1095
01:06:14,900 --> 01:06:18,100
then we'll move on to meyneth 
main at is going to go from 

1096
01:06:18,100 --> 01:06:20,600
permission to permissionless 
over time. 

1097
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:25,400
Very cool. 
And yeah, we're can be. 

1098
01:06:25,400 --> 01:06:28,100
I think people can go to 
Dimension dot x y, z and you've 

1099
01:06:28,100 --> 01:06:30,300
got everything there. 
The documentation the light 

1100
01:06:30,300 --> 01:06:35,300
paper, they can learn more about
building a roll up on Dimension,

1101
01:06:35,300 --> 01:06:37,600
right? 
Yeah, check out the Discord. 

1102
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:39,100
We're pretty awkward. 
Definitely active. 

1103
01:06:39,100 --> 01:06:43,400
We have a very active community,
so sometimes it's hard to get 

1104
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,800
into our community, but we do 
that on purpose, we want to make

1105
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:49,500
sure that people really kind of 
have heart and we really, 

1106
01:06:49,500 --> 01:06:53,200
really, really really value. 
The people Who are building the 

1107
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:55,500
community because it's 
decentralized chain. 

1108
01:06:55,500 --> 01:06:57,200
Is there chain? 
That were building? 

1109
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,600
Where we're taking a centralized
idea, an idea that was someone 

1110
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:03,700
in someone's head to an actual 
product. 

1111
01:07:03,700 --> 01:07:06,700
So it's decentralized protocol 
that's, you know, it's going to 

1112
01:07:06,700 --> 01:07:10,500
be autonomous and we need people
all around the world to operate 

1113
01:07:10,500 --> 01:07:13,400
these nodes and we need two 
people to just spread the 

1114
01:07:13,408 --> 01:07:16,700
gospel. 
Awesome. 

1115
01:07:16,700 --> 01:07:19,500
Well yeah, it's really really 
fun chatting with you and 

1116
01:07:19,500 --> 01:07:23,300
learning more about Dimension 
and yeah looking forward to 

1117
01:07:23,300 --> 01:07:28,600
seeing more more coming from 
this ecosystem and certainly you

1118
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,400
know a decentralized 
applications being developed as 

1119
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,000
Roll-Ups. 
Definitely, definitely I look 

1120
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:35,500
forward to as well. 
Thank you for having me. 

1121
01:07:36,700 --> 01:07:39,400
Thank you, and to our listeners.
Thanks for tuning in. 

1122
01:07:39,500 --> 01:07:42,500
I go live every week, so if you 
want to hear more of this sort 

1123
01:07:42,500 --> 01:07:46,900
of content, you can follow the 
interop on YouTube and also on 

1124
01:07:46,900 --> 01:07:49,700
Twitter and I do want to 
announce that. 

1125
01:07:49,700 --> 01:07:54,800
We have announced the dates for 
nebular Summit 2023. 

1126
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:58,800
So nebulous Summit is the inner 
chain Builders conference. 

1127
01:07:59,100 --> 01:08:02,100
It'll be the second edition is 
happening in Paris, right after 

1128
01:08:02,100 --> 01:08:04,000
ECC. 
And this year, it will be on 

1129
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:08,600
July 24th and 25th. 
Last year's event was a huge 

1130
01:08:08,600 --> 01:08:12,500
success. 
It was like, people loved it. 

1131
01:08:12,700 --> 01:08:16,200
It was really cool Vibes, but 
this year, we're going even 

1132
01:08:16,300 --> 01:08:18,399
bigger. 
We're going to do two days were 

1133
01:08:18,399 --> 01:08:22,200
expecting up to 800 people. 
And nebular, Simon is really 

1134
01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:24,300
about bringing the brightest 
Minds in The Interchange 

1135
01:08:24,300 --> 01:08:28,100
together for technical talks and
developer workshops. 

1136
01:08:28,300 --> 01:08:33,100
It is a technical conference so 
you can expect to learn lots 

1137
01:08:33,100 --> 01:08:35,399
about how to build on the inner 
chain. 

1138
01:08:35,600 --> 01:08:38,100
We have an amazing Seeing new 
venue is this place called the 

1139
01:08:38,100 --> 01:08:40,300
Albert school. 
It's a historical site in the 

1140
01:08:40,300 --> 01:08:42,800
sense, in central Paris, and the
10th district. 

1141
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,899
And it is formally a ceramic 
Factory. 

1142
01:08:46,899 --> 01:08:54,300
So it's got this very cool kind 
of art, deco, Vibe and the sort 

1143
01:08:54,300 --> 01:08:56,899
of modern elements. 
So, check out the Twitter 

1144
01:08:57,600 --> 01:09:01,200
Twitter's nebular, Builders and 
yeah, and this is going to be 

1145
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,700
happening in July. 
Also, check out the website and 

1146
01:09:03,700 --> 01:09:08,800
Billiard Builders and you can 
see here, The initial list of 

1147
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:13,200
speakers, there's about 15 so 
far but we're soon going to be 

1148
01:09:13,200 --> 01:09:15,200
expanding. 
We will have somewhere around 80

1149
01:09:15,200 --> 01:09:18,800
speakers for this conference and
many many faces, I'm sure you're

1150
01:09:18,800 --> 01:09:21,899
already familiar with here and 
so tickets. 

1151
01:09:21,899 --> 01:09:26,100
Go on sale on Monday, April 3rd.
So if you want to get notified 

1152
01:09:26,100 --> 01:09:29,500
when tickets go live early bird 
tickets, you can enter your 

1153
01:09:29,500 --> 01:09:33,800
email on the website or you can 
follow us on Twitter to get more

1154
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:37,200
information and yeah certainly 
if you guys Guys, if anybody 

1155
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:42,100
from the dimension team is going
to be in Paris for ECC would 

1156
01:09:42,300 --> 01:09:45,899
love to have one of you or at 
least you, or at least more or 

1157
01:09:45,899 --> 01:09:48,800
as many people from the team as 
possible, you know, to 

1158
01:09:48,800 --> 01:09:51,500
participate or even give a talk.
Cool. 

1159
01:09:51,500 --> 01:09:54,800
Sounds good. 
We'll let you know, all right? 

1160
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,000
Thanks so much. 
Have a good one and we'll talk 

1161
01:09:57,000 --> 01:10:01,000
to you next week. 
Thank you for joining us on this

1162
01:10:01,000 --> 01:10:03,400
week's episode. 
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1163
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,400
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1164
01:10:05,400 --> 01:10:09,200
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1165
01:10:09,200 --> 01:10:11,500
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And if you have a Google home or

1166
01:10:11,500 --> 01:10:14,300
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1167
01:10:14,308 --> 01:10:18,100
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1168
01:10:18,100 --> 01:10:20,900
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1169
01:10:20,900 --> 01:10:23,200
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1170
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:26,500
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1171
01:10:26,508 --> 01:10:28,700
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1172
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,800
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1173
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:34,500
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1174
01:10:34,500 --> 01:10:37,700
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1175
01:10:37,700 --> 01:10:38,300
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